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Hasnt worked in 8 months, has worked like 3 matches in the last year. Sorta makes sense if she was in a 2min squash, but, smarter to use a local talent there who's got the endurance if they're gonna go 7mins
In Tulsa, probably not a lot...surely there's something going in OKC though...and if not, its a short flight for KC or Texas wrestlers.
Not like the first squash woman was actually booked under her real name anyway...so kayfabe the second woman as Tulsa too and call it a day.
Big time. I was in the arena tonight. First couple of minutes she was OK, through the leg sweep exchanges, but not long after it's like she went full limp noodle. She looked gassed, and I don't know if the weird smile she had on her face through a lot of it came across on camera, but it was just overall strange. Then she took that...Fuckliner from Deonna and it just went pear shaped.
I'm not a Rayne fan because she always looks like she's jogging through molasses at the best of times, but something just felt really off. Hope she's OK.
So she kinda missed the grab on the rope when she first walked up to the ring. Don't know if she was sick tonight or what but I was already worried right from the start.
That's what I thought too, but does the person "applying" the SF really give the victim much of a boost or help their rotation? I've never really thought so, so I don't see why she would flip herself just enough to land on the top of her head.
It is shocking to me that Madison Rayne is a coach because every time she steps in the ring it looks like her first day of wrestling school.
Also AEW really needs to learn that a relatively new and fresh wrestler doesn’t get over by having competitive matches with other talent that also aren’t over.
Deonna should’ve hit 5 of her best moves and packed up Rayne in 2 minutes. Instead she sold for half the match and came out less over than she went in. They did the same thing in Toni’s debut match last year smh.
That’s my criticism with Edge’s booking, I guess moreso when he wrestled Dante Martin in a competitive match. If you want to Edge to be a top guy, he shouldn’t be struggling against Dante.
That's how I felt when they had Swerve take on Dustin Rhodes as Keith Lee's replacement at Worlds Collide. Hate to say it but that cooled Swerve just enough where he went from red hot to just hot.
AEW has had the same process for ages. They did it with Punk and they did it with Edge. Guys wrestle these lower card guys in competitive matches and it’s supposedly elevating the other person, when it’s just pulling down the top guy.
Early on, Punk had a match with Will Hobbs and it makes sense why a match up like that can be competitive. Hobbs is a big physical beast and Punk had to outsmart him to win the match.
Deonna is a lot more physically imposing than Madison and they just don't have much chemistry. It didn't seem like to me like much of it was Deonna's fault at all. I personally think this kind of booking can work with some new signings but sometimes it's not what the people want to see. If someone joins the company known for their work rate then yes a lot of fans are excited to see them have a competitive match especially the live crowds.
This is the thing to me about Emi. The person with a great track record producing very different and good wrestlers is not the coach, while Madison who struggles to get through a relatively short match is. Perhpas she is coach in character work department?
I wasn't there for the beautiful people, but mildly suspect it is a classic case of women wrestling in the US moving on quite a bit since then while Madison didn't.
Madison was always known for her character work. There were a few years where she was pretty solid in the ring but I haven’t seen that kind of quality work from her in a while.
Every match she has had since she joined has been like this. She looks like she hasn't got a clue what she's doing. I've seen 16 year olds in UK Indies do better in their third match. Seriously. Ring rust maybe? But she's meant to be training people. It's embarrassing.
>Also AEW really needs to learn that a relatively new and fresh wrestler doesn’t get over by having competitive matches with other talent that also aren’t over. Deonna should’ve hit 5 of her best moves and packed up Rayne in 2 minutes. Instead she sold for half the match and came out less over than she went in. They did the same thing in Toni’s debut match last year smh.
Agree on Madison. Disagree on that front. As I dread to think about returning to Jade's era.
Problem with Jade’s run is she got over squashing people but never transitioned into having matches with the main event women.
She was kept on her own island where she could squash Red Velvet infinitely, whereas they really should’ve had her start facing adversity once she won the title.
She was sitting ringside with staff until after all the after match stuff was over. Didn't stop the match but immediately went to a finish. Did walk out on her own(well mostly)but she was definitely shook.
She literally slapped an ankle lock on right after for the finish. You’re correct it wasn’t *immediately* stopped, but they ended the match about as fast as you could after that. The bell was ringing not even 15 seconds after this.
Madison was looking gassed pretty quickly into the match and I noticed Deonna having to hesitate because Madison wasn't set up for certain cues throughout the match. Not REALLY a knock against Madison though, because she's not wrestled a lot lately, but definitely seems a little much of a stretch to think this should be reflective of Deonna's character. Apparently the match was also "thrown together" last minute (not Deonna's match, but her opponent) so that may be why Madison wasn't too prepared.
Well she kind of sucked to be honest. If she’s the supposed ring general she wants to portray, she should be able to carry an opponent she’s worked with dozens of times. Think Bret hart carrying that guy who Vince thought was his next hogan. That’s what a real technician can do.
Gimmick-less generic babyface veteran is the worst way to use Madison, on top of that it appears she has regressed in the ring. I don't know what happened, she used to be fine, but not great, and she remains in good shape. She just hasn't been the same since coming back to impact a few years ago.
Huge fan of queen bee Madison tho, excellent work. Best mean girl routine I've ever seen. One of my top knockouts of the era.
I completely agree. She’s one of my fav TNA knockouts and I think there’s still things she can do, but they aren’t using her in any storylines & that’s where she’s gonna thrive. She’s never been the type to go out there without a story and deliver a classic. But she has value.
Think this is 100% the case. She was so out of ring shape, she obviously hadn't gone through the rigor of learning what was coming next (due to being a replacement or out of practice). Felt like they were figuring it out in ring and it showed. Boy it was a proper poor match and that mistake is what can happen when the talent don't know what moves happening.
Should have just been a 2 min squash.
Feel like possibly Madison isn't in ring shape and didn't expect this match.
Tony said there'd been a ton of injuries/people being unable to make it so possible she was only told very late she needed to wrestle, and she's a coach anyway so was around.
You're getting downvoted because of your first comment, but you're not wrong here. Madison had a bad showing the last time she was on TV, too. She needs to retire from the ring and strictly be an agent/trainer at this point because she almost became a paraplegic tonight because she doesn't know how to take a flatliner anymore.
We're past the point of "she needs to retire before she gets hurt" because she just hurt herself pretty badly tonight.
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Why in the green fuck was that move of the night
Cause it looks taxing
Madison Rayne looked out of it before she even got hurt She was moving in slow motion all match
Hasnt worked in 8 months, has worked like 3 matches in the last year. Sorta makes sense if she was in a 2min squash, but, smarter to use a local talent there who's got the endurance if they're gonna go 7mins
Yeah should've just brought in Vert Vixen
Depending on how wide a radius is in play, how much local talent is there to be squashed on national TV in Tulsa?
In Tulsa, probably not a lot...surely there's something going in OKC though...and if not, its a short flight for KC or Texas wrestlers. Not like the first squash woman was actually booked under her real name anyway...so kayfabe the second woman as Tulsa too and call it a day.
Big time. I was in the arena tonight. First couple of minutes she was OK, through the leg sweep exchanges, but not long after it's like she went full limp noodle. She looked gassed, and I don't know if the weird smile she had on her face through a lot of it came across on camera, but it was just overall strange. Then she took that...Fuckliner from Deonna and it just went pear shaped. I'm not a Rayne fan because she always looks like she's jogging through molasses at the best of times, but something just felt really off. Hope she's OK.
She was gassed.
So she kinda missed the grab on the rope when she first walked up to the ring. Don't know if she was sick tonight or what but I was already worried right from the start.
Tbh that’s how she’s always been, it’s not like she was ever a good worker
Dude is Rayne alright? Terrifying bump to end that.
The choice to make the botch “move of the night” was certainly a shocker.
I’m confused as to what move she thought Deonna was going to do because why would you take a bump like that on a flatliner???
I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about how wrestling moves work or how to take bumps, but it looked like Madison rotated too much?
She was not supposed to tuck her chin and when she did she spiked herself.
Maybe she thought it was a Spanish Fly or something.
That's what I thought too, but does the person "applying" the SF really give the victim much of a boost or help their rotation? I've never really thought so, so I don't see why she would flip herself just enough to land on the top of her head.
My friend suggested a northern lights belly to belly, but it could definitely be either.
Turbo tax moment of the night!
Well, we have an early contender for worst AEW match of the year at least. Hope Madison is ok though, that was scary.
It is shocking to me that Madison Rayne is a coach because every time she steps in the ring it looks like her first day of wrestling school. Also AEW really needs to learn that a relatively new and fresh wrestler doesn’t get over by having competitive matches with other talent that also aren’t over. Deonna should’ve hit 5 of her best moves and packed up Rayne in 2 minutes. Instead she sold for half the match and came out less over than she went in. They did the same thing in Toni’s debut match last year smh.
That’s my criticism with Edge’s booking, I guess moreso when he wrestled Dante Martin in a competitive match. If you want to Edge to be a top guy, he shouldn’t be struggling against Dante.
That's how I felt when they had Swerve take on Dustin Rhodes as Keith Lee's replacement at Worlds Collide. Hate to say it but that cooled Swerve just enough where he went from red hot to just hot.
Agree that match should've been a squash, but it didn't cool Swerve's momentum at all.
AEW has had the same process for ages. They did it with Punk and they did it with Edge. Guys wrestle these lower card guys in competitive matches and it’s supposedly elevating the other person, when it’s just pulling down the top guy.
Early on, Punk had a match with Will Hobbs and it makes sense why a match up like that can be competitive. Hobbs is a big physical beast and Punk had to outsmart him to win the match. Deonna is a lot more physically imposing than Madison and they just don't have much chemistry. It didn't seem like to me like much of it was Deonna's fault at all. I personally think this kind of booking can work with some new signings but sometimes it's not what the people want to see. If someone joins the company known for their work rate then yes a lot of fans are excited to see them have a competitive match especially the live crowds.
Seeing Madison bulldoze deonna with a shoulder block was certainly a choice.
Yep should have just officially made Emi the coach, Madison is just awful
This is the thing to me about Emi. The person with a great track record producing very different and good wrestlers is not the coach, while Madison who struggles to get through a relatively short match is. Perhpas she is coach in character work department?
I honestly don’t think the beautiful people was good so I can’t see how she would even help with character work
I wasn't there for the beautiful people, but mildly suspect it is a classic case of women wrestling in the US moving on quite a bit since then while Madison didn't.
Madison was always known for her character work. There were a few years where she was pretty solid in the ring but I haven’t seen that kind of quality work from her in a while.
Every match she has had since she joined has been like this. She looks like she hasn't got a clue what she's doing. I've seen 16 year olds in UK Indies do better in their third match. Seriously. Ring rust maybe? But she's meant to be training people. It's embarrassing.
Especially after Toni came and squashed someone right before. Shoulda flipped that imo
Yep or be put against established AEW talent like Ruby, Anna Jay, Red Velvet, Riho, etc
>Also AEW really needs to learn that a relatively new and fresh wrestler doesn’t get over by having competitive matches with other talent that also aren’t over. Deonna should’ve hit 5 of her best moves and packed up Rayne in 2 minutes. Instead she sold for half the match and came out less over than she went in. They did the same thing in Toni’s debut match last year smh. Agree on Madison. Disagree on that front. As I dread to think about returning to Jade's era.
Problem with Jade’s run is she got over squashing people but never transitioned into having matches with the main event women. She was kept on her own island where she could squash Red Velvet infinitely, whereas they really should’ve had her start facing adversity once she won the title.
Hope Madison is ok, was the match stopped after that move?
She was sitting ringside with staff until after all the after match stuff was over. Didn't stop the match but immediately went to a finish. Did walk out on her own(well mostly)but she was definitely shook.
For like 5 to 10 seconds to check on here then it went on
And she was out too
Ref checked her immediately, told Doc Sampson and Deonna she was good so then Deonna just put her in the ankle lock so Madison could tap.
Of course it wasn't.
She literally slapped an ankle lock on right after for the finish. You’re correct it wasn’t *immediately* stopped, but they ended the match about as fast as you could after that. The bell was ringing not even 15 seconds after this.
Anyone got a clip of the botched move that they replayed? I somehow missed it live and didn't pay attention when the replay was showing.
https://twitter.com/SDevilleLive/status/1760489050530566255
Thanks, and holy yikes.
[https://twitter.com/TripleHHHPaulL/status/1760489863252480506](https://twitter.com/TripleHHHPaulL/status/1760489863252480506)
She was looking pretty gassed right before that nasty bump
Botch aside, this was the worst match i've seen in a long time. It looked like they were working in slow motion and very uncoordinated
Isn't her entire gimmick being a good wrestler?
I don't think the botch was on her.
The rest of the match was pretty awful from both of them
You don't think she slowed down as a result of it?
Sorry by rest I meant even before the head spike botch it was slow and sloppy looking
Madison was looking gassed pretty quickly into the match and I noticed Deonna having to hesitate because Madison wasn't set up for certain cues throughout the match. Not REALLY a knock against Madison though, because she's not wrestled a lot lately, but definitely seems a little much of a stretch to think this should be reflective of Deonna's character. Apparently the match was also "thrown together" last minute (not Deonna's match, but her opponent) so that may be why Madison wasn't too prepared.
Madison looked off the entire match. She should probably just retire.
And she took that flatliner like a DDT. That’s how Pitbull 1 broke his neck. Hopefully she’s ok.
Ooof. That wasn’t it. Deonna couldn’t carry her and Madison looked very off.
Brutally bad.
That did nothing for deonna, shame
Well she kind of sucked to be honest. If she’s the supposed ring general she wants to portray, she should be able to carry an opponent she’s worked with dozens of times. Think Bret hart carrying that guy who Vince thought was his next hogan. That’s what a real technician can do.
Hope Madison is okay. She should probably just retire at this point and stick to behind-the-scenes stuff.
Madison Rayne is not a television level talent. That was so bad.
No she is, she’s just much better at character work
Gimmick-less generic babyface veteran is the worst way to use Madison, on top of that it appears she has regressed in the ring. I don't know what happened, she used to be fine, but not great, and she remains in good shape. She just hasn't been the same since coming back to impact a few years ago. Huge fan of queen bee Madison tho, excellent work. Best mean girl routine I've ever seen. One of my top knockouts of the era.
I completely agree. She’s one of my fav TNA knockouts and I think there’s still things she can do, but they aren’t using her in any storylines & that’s where she’s gonna thrive. She’s never been the type to go out there without a story and deliver a classic. But she has value.
Madison is lucky she's not paralyzed that shit looked terrible
Jeezus she Madcapped herself
Really really rough match from two professionals that know each other so very well. Scary scary stuff.
I’m guessing Madison was a last second replacement tonight because holy shit did she look OFF from bell to bell there.
Think this is 100% the case. She was so out of ring shape, she obviously hadn't gone through the rigor of learning what was coming next (due to being a replacement or out of practice). Felt like they were figuring it out in ring and it showed. Boy it was a proper poor match and that mistake is what can happen when the talent don't know what moves happening. Should have just been a 2 min squash.
Watched it back and it looked like Madison just, over rotated on the move? It didn’t seem like Deonna did anything specific to make that happen.
If anyone is going to blame Deonna for that then they’re fucking dumb. Was not her fault in the slightest
That was bad, should've gone for pin than itself as she looked out instead of 2 more submissions
Feel like possibly Madison isn't in ring shape and didn't expect this match. Tony said there'd been a ton of injuries/people being unable to make it so possible she was only told very late she needed to wrestle, and she's a coach anyway so was around.
Saw someone on Twitter say this was “REAL GRAPS” because Rayne got dropped on her head. Like, I get people like to spin stuff, but Christ.
Anyone notice deonna taking her boots after in the ring after the Toni segment?
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Good call. Ooof. I thought she was having an existential crisis
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she hasnt been on tv in a year
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You're getting downvoted because of your first comment, but you're not wrong here. Madison had a bad showing the last time she was on TV, too. She needs to retire from the ring and strictly be an agent/trainer at this point because she almost became a paraplegic tonight because she doesn't know how to take a flatliner anymore. We're past the point of "she needs to retire before she gets hurt" because she just hurt herself pretty badly tonight.
She's a coach btw.
So what?
This match was pretty bad but the build to Toni/Deonna has been pretty good
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