This submission was removed:
This is more appropriate for the Wreddit Daily Discussion thread. It may be either pinned to the top of the subreddit, or search for "Daily Discussion" to find the latest.
Posts that belong in the daily thread include (but are **not** limited to)
* Low effort/extraneous images/memes
* Tickets/merch sales/offers
* Fite codes or other similar items
* Questions with a single correct answer (When is X, what year did X do Y, etc.)
* Low effort text posts (Who is your favorite wrestler)
* Non-wrestling related posts
* Minor/trivial observations (This is X's 3rd match in 3 weeks, etc.)
* AI created promos, art, lists, etc.
* Frequent topics
___
**If you feel this post was removed incorrectly after reading the rules of the subreddit, please lodge an [appeal to the moderators with a link to your post by clicking here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSquaredCircle&subject=appealing_a_removal)** If your post was removed in error, it will be re-approved, or you will be asked to repost.
###[/r/SquaredCircle Rules and Guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/wiki/rules) || [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/reddit-101/reddit-basics/reddiquette)
Let me challenge you on this then
In kayfabe what would you say defines the match up of CM Punk vs Seth Rollins
What are their strengths and weaknesses
If Punk were to win, why?
If Seth were to win, why?
I'd probably say prime Seth because his athleticism. Punk hasn't really ever been a great athlete, but I can see Punk using bad-guy advantages to maybe steal a win. He's always been better at that than Rollins.
I just used two reasons to think about who should beat the other that weren't based off of size advantages.
Like, of course size plays a large role in determining any shoot fight, but in pro wrestling, you need to think of them as fighting game characters with their own specific advantages in given scenarios.
Rey Mysterio beats Big Show because he's way faster and doesn't get caught. He chops at the legs to slow him to a stop and land his biggest offense. I think your question falls apart as soon as you think about a general match structure.
>If Punk were to win, why?
Because Punk is a cagey veteran who super ring generalship was capable of clipping the wings of the stronger athlete. Punk also has a stronger strike and submission game, if Seth stays grounded, he'll lose.
>If Seth were to win, why?
Seth's younger, stronger, more athletic, and his wild and unorthodox moveset might be too much for Punk to handle.
Atleast with WWE I think its been this way since Super Cena era
Like you can't tell me a kayfabe match up of attributes matters when every wrestler is falling for the shoulder tackle set up
>Like you can't tell me a kayfabe match up of attributes matters when every wrestler is falling for the shoulder tackle set up
I'm unsure if wrestling is the past time for you.
>In shoot fighting sports like Boxing or MMA there's matchups and styles to compare and contrast how one person might have the advantage in the laters rounds, on the ground, in close or outside boxing ect
And that’s absolutely a thing in professional wrestling as well.
Not really
Sometimes in the ring the wrestlers tell a really great story that involves these elements yes but you wouldn't for example ahead of time think of a match up in those terms
>but you wouldn't for example ahead of time think of a match up in those terms
I mean, I dunno about you, but that's absolutely a thing I think about before matches that I'm excited for. Like, Becky vs. Rhea, Rhea obviously has a huge power advantage but Becky's taken down more powerful opponents before. Plus Rhea isn't stressing about Becky at all, so her arrogance and overconfidence are going to cost her. Even Becky's self-confidence isn't at an all-time high right now, is her need to prove she can still hang with younger, hungrier wrestlers going to throw her off her game?
Lots of storylines there.
I hate this argument because there are smaller people IRL that can easily take down someone who's bigger than them, not to derail the conversation but it's why I've never understood the criticism of intergender wrestling **(I've got no problem with it but I can understand why it's not for everyone)** being unbelievable because of the size difference, as if there's no other way for a smaller competitor to defeat a bigger one.
Yeah but weight classes matter for a reason
Its a huge advantage to have weight and size on someone, no one is saying its a forgone conclusion but the advantage exists
*we don't have a lot of focus on a wrestler drilling their moves to make them hurt more, and we don't have a lot of storytelling being put on styles and match ups that create reasons why someone is a mismatch for the other person*
Do you, you know, WATCH wrestling? I can't speak for AEW, but you see promos in WWE of people practicing skills...esp groups like Alpha Academy, Diamond Mind, or the NQCC, the commentators literally talk about how "X is skilled in this so it gives them an advantage, while Y had done this, yet X is etc". Bully LeRae's whole thing is that Maxxine has no skills compared to her.
Maxxine has a gimmick about being a new wrestler yes
But what did John Cena do to become superstar Cena in kayfabe? Like what did he actually do to become dominant?
What did Roman do to finally beat Brock? And takeover as The Guy
What did Stone Cold do to go from losing to Bret to being Champion the year after?
In all other sports there's clear reasons why athletes make their 'jump' in wrestling its just being pushed out of kayfabe
Other sports, training happens when the camera is off. Same here.
I don't know what to tell you, friend. You want training montages and behind the scene stories that take place NOT on game night.
The promos they give, the comentators comments aren't good enough for you.
Not really, im saying there's a lack of in kayfabe attributes that differentiate wrestlers
There used to be more though
Like if you were facing Angle you absolutely could not let him snatch up your leg, that's a clear win condition for him
>Not really, im saying there's a lack of in kayfabe attributes that differentiate wrestlers
That's psychology, you're complaining that they have worse psychology.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’re you on about wrestlers have different styles. They bring it up all the time about the different backgrounds they come with. Bryan being a technical wrestler, Malachi being a kickboxer and muay tai. Cody has a background in amateur wrestling, Corbin is a boxer….
Sure but how do those styles affect the outcome
Do technical wrestlers consistently beat brawlers? Should a technical wrestlers be the favorite in a match up against a brawler?
To me it seems more like those styles are about marketing moreso than how they actually interact in kayfabe
This submission was removed: This is more appropriate for the Wreddit Daily Discussion thread. It may be either pinned to the top of the subreddit, or search for "Daily Discussion" to find the latest. Posts that belong in the daily thread include (but are **not** limited to) * Low effort/extraneous images/memes * Tickets/merch sales/offers * Fite codes or other similar items * Questions with a single correct answer (When is X, what year did X do Y, etc.) * Low effort text posts (Who is your favorite wrestler) * Non-wrestling related posts * Minor/trivial observations (This is X's 3rd match in 3 weeks, etc.) * AI created promos, art, lists, etc. * Frequent topics ___ **If you feel this post was removed incorrectly after reading the rules of the subreddit, please lodge an [appeal to the moderators with a link to your post by clicking here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSquaredCircle&subject=appealing_a_removal)** If your post was removed in error, it will be re-approved, or you will be asked to repost. ###[/r/SquaredCircle Rules and Guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/wiki/rules) || [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/reddit-101/reddit-basics/reddiquette)
Endurance? Skill? Strategy? Injury? Arrogance?There are many reasons.
This is most certainly an opinion.
Let me challenge you on this then In kayfabe what would you say defines the match up of CM Punk vs Seth Rollins What are their strengths and weaknesses If Punk were to win, why? If Seth were to win, why?
Punk is 45 and is injury prone at this point. That immediately is a disadvantage
Not at all the point of the exercise though If we were to speculate on how Prime vs Prime matched up how would the match go? Who would win and why?
I'd probably say prime Seth because his athleticism. Punk hasn't really ever been a great athlete, but I can see Punk using bad-guy advantages to maybe steal a win. He's always been better at that than Rollins. I just used two reasons to think about who should beat the other that weren't based off of size advantages. Like, of course size plays a large role in determining any shoot fight, but in pro wrestling, you need to think of them as fighting game characters with their own specific advantages in given scenarios. Rey Mysterio beats Big Show because he's way faster and doesn't get caught. He chops at the legs to slow him to a stop and land his biggest offense. I think your question falls apart as soon as you think about a general match structure.
>If Punk were to win, why? Because Punk is a cagey veteran who super ring generalship was capable of clipping the wings of the stronger athlete. Punk also has a stronger strike and submission game, if Seth stays grounded, he'll lose. >If Seth were to win, why? Seth's younger, stronger, more athletic, and his wild and unorthodox moveset might be too much for Punk to handle.
I appreciate this answer I don't think that's evident in the presentation but I can see how this applies
I mean I think Seth is an absolute dogshit worker whose matches make no sense. But you're making universal statements about a general problem.
Atleast with WWE I think its been this way since Super Cena era Like you can't tell me a kayfabe match up of attributes matters when every wrestler is falling for the shoulder tackle set up
>Like you can't tell me a kayfabe match up of attributes matters when every wrestler is falling for the shoulder tackle set up I'm unsure if wrestling is the past time for you.
>In shoot fighting sports like Boxing or MMA there's matchups and styles to compare and contrast how one person might have the advantage in the laters rounds, on the ground, in close or outside boxing ect And that’s absolutely a thing in professional wrestling as well.
Not really Sometimes in the ring the wrestlers tell a really great story that involves these elements yes but you wouldn't for example ahead of time think of a match up in those terms
>but you wouldn't for example ahead of time think of a match up in those terms I mean, I dunno about you, but that's absolutely a thing I think about before matches that I'm excited for. Like, Becky vs. Rhea, Rhea obviously has a huge power advantage but Becky's taken down more powerful opponents before. Plus Rhea isn't stressing about Becky at all, so her arrogance and overconfidence are going to cost her. Even Becky's self-confidence isn't at an all-time high right now, is her need to prove she can still hang with younger, hungrier wrestlers going to throw her off her game? Lots of storylines there.
does Fighting Spirit mean nothing to you
I think you're the only person being honest so far haha
Okay, bro.
I hate this argument because there are smaller people IRL that can easily take down someone who's bigger than them, not to derail the conversation but it's why I've never understood the criticism of intergender wrestling **(I've got no problem with it but I can understand why it's not for everyone)** being unbelievable because of the size difference, as if there's no other way for a smaller competitor to defeat a bigger one.
Yeah but weight classes matter for a reason Its a huge advantage to have weight and size on someone, no one is saying its a forgone conclusion but the advantage exists
*we don't have a lot of focus on a wrestler drilling their moves to make them hurt more, and we don't have a lot of storytelling being put on styles and match ups that create reasons why someone is a mismatch for the other person* Do you, you know, WATCH wrestling? I can't speak for AEW, but you see promos in WWE of people practicing skills...esp groups like Alpha Academy, Diamond Mind, or the NQCC, the commentators literally talk about how "X is skilled in this so it gives them an advantage, while Y had done this, yet X is etc". Bully LeRae's whole thing is that Maxxine has no skills compared to her.
Maxxine has a gimmick about being a new wrestler yes But what did John Cena do to become superstar Cena in kayfabe? Like what did he actually do to become dominant? What did Roman do to finally beat Brock? And takeover as The Guy What did Stone Cold do to go from losing to Bret to being Champion the year after? In all other sports there's clear reasons why athletes make their 'jump' in wrestling its just being pushed out of kayfabe
Other sports, training happens when the camera is off. Same here. I don't know what to tell you, friend. You want training montages and behind the scene stories that take place NOT on game night. The promos they give, the comentators comments aren't good enough for you.
What you're describing is psychology.
Not really, im saying there's a lack of in kayfabe attributes that differentiate wrestlers There used to be more though Like if you were facing Angle you absolutely could not let him snatch up your leg, that's a clear win condition for him
>Not really, im saying there's a lack of in kayfabe attributes that differentiate wrestlers That's psychology, you're complaining that they have worse psychology.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’re you on about wrestlers have different styles. They bring it up all the time about the different backgrounds they come with. Bryan being a technical wrestler, Malachi being a kickboxer and muay tai. Cody has a background in amateur wrestling, Corbin is a boxer….
Sure but how do those styles affect the outcome Do technical wrestlers consistently beat brawlers? Should a technical wrestlers be the favorite in a match up against a brawler? To me it seems more like those styles are about marketing moreso than how they actually interact in kayfabe