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Statements of partiality have been banned from Collision…
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I mean, given how dirt sheets, the media, and how people on social media are these days, anyone that's relevant in any industry is in a "no-win situation" when it comes to controversy surrounding them
This is exactly why I almost hate talent doing interviews.
Because no matter WHAT they say, everything nowadays is clipped and shared and analyzed and just thrown into the machine, then it’s “oh what do you have to say about X’s comments?”, then the responses get clipped and shared and analyzed and thrown back into the machine, and it just goes on and on forever
Where nobody actually said anything about Punk?
The closest was The Buck's saying "cry me a river", which honestly isn't too different from what Punk and Drew have been doing.
Even the Edge promo was literally just a dude saying "hey, it's just wrestling, it's supposed to be fun, you can love one company without booing another, or you can like every company"
Which really shouldn't be a controversial statement at all.
I'm convinced wrestling fans have an exceptional ability to create their own narratives out of thin air and ride them into the ground. I agree, they didn't say anything about Punk or the interview anywhere on the show and it's ridiculous the stretches some fans will take to fit their bias.
they also have an exceptional ability to not see things for what they are like people still believing that Cody giving his Mania match to the Rock then taking it back was a work and not the actual pivot that it was given fan backlash...pretending Adam's promo wasn't at least tangentially made a result of Punk's interview, is to engage in more cope than Adam's last name.
“Hey fuck you for telling me to be normal. This is why people hate your fucking company, because you want people to enjoy what they like and be happy. That’s so fucking cringe of you.”
I just wanna know how Is it that AEW is seriously get more flak from fans over the Elite/Punk fiasco compared to WWE/VKM and the entire company hiding and protecting it?
Like HHH comes out and says I haven't even read the lawsuit, lets move on and focus on only the positives and WWE fans are like YEAHHHHHHH!!!! You tell everyone!!!
Hey lets trash AEW and this Punk/Elite stuff instead.
Like man does this not make wrestling fans look bad at all?
And they were right to. Meltzer for once put it perfectly when he said as much as he personally likes Hunter that doesn’t change the fact that Hunter absolutely got that wrong and handled it in just about the worst way possible.
Huh....do you literally live under a rock or something? The VKM thing was super big and still is, HHH took tons of flack for that line and still does if people bring it up. Your post is one big deflection. This has nothing to do with wrestling fans, this has to do with your comprehension of a situation.
I will say wrestling fans are terrible though, just like any other fanbase including sports fans that go burn out jerseys and do death threats live to athelets.
I think this is true for the broader media but in the internet wrestling discourse that was different.
Even after the first Wall Street article, you were still getting comment on SC about how VKM would handle staff better than TK and especially Brawl Out.
Punk's comment about Tony not being a real boss had people going about Vince > Tony. We can talk about how ruthless and business savy Vince was to get WWE to where it is. We can also talk about how great Benoit was as a wrestler. What they both allegedly did though is so bad it has tarnished everything else. You simply can't talk about Vince anymore I'm a positive light.
Definitely not going to argue against that. I do wonder how it works on a forensic or legal level though.
Benoit wasn’t tried and found guilty. They were all found in the home dead and investigators found him guilty of murder post-mortem. Since he wasn’t tried and convicted of anything, how does that really work? On some level, I’d think it may be some level of “allegedly”. Idk.
"Alleged" indicates that the accusation hasn't been proven or convicted. As Benoit wasn't alive to be convicted (and posthumous trials are rare), the rather large amount of actual evidence that detectives used to close the case is enough to take this from "alleged" to "Chris Benoit killed his wife and son by strangling them before taking his own life, and there's no evidence to suggest anyone else was involved in the murders". There's no need to walk on eggshells on this one.
Because that narrative is true. He would have handled that situation way better. Nobody can sit here and deny that.
He just didn't handle himself well.
Idk about you, but there was a ton of backlash to how HHH handled that question. And since then almost every top star has been asked about it (including Cody on that SAME scrum) and have all addressed their feelings on it upfront with no dancing around it.
I don't think anyone has tried to hide the VKM thing, if they were, they would have instructed all their talent to never talk about it. Something they clearly have not instructed their talent to do.
But it is different on TV, because stuff like that just shouldn't be talked about on TV when you're running a show.
Let's be honest though, wrestling fans need no help to look terrible lol
Seriously…there was so much criticism of VKM that it forced him out of the company….who are the fans supposed to be mad at now that Vince is gone? We don’t know who else was complicit. Once we do find out, I’m sure there will be plenty of justified outrage towards those people. But for now, saying that fans can’t be frustrated with AEW because what Vince did was worse is dumb.
I didn't read much of what happened, but didn't Lesnar got cancelled and wiped from all future plans the second he was slightly associated with the VKM thing?
I think they’re referring more to Triple H’s response to the VKM questions than what McMahon did, which is more analogous to Khan tripping over his dick in these scrums
What fans were you talking to? 
People were *rinsing* Triple H for such a terrible answer given that guys like Seth didn't have Triple H's status or position and still gave a better answer.
That's not correct at all. The Vince court documents exploded the sub along with the mainstream.
I would think that most people - the fabled "silent majority" - are pro both companies succeeding and can easily see there is no bad guy as such here, just that it was a bad situation. Khan's inexperience as a boss, Punk's attitude, EVPs being wrestlers in a different clique to Punk, etc.
Don't think there's anywhere near as much drama for Punk as Vince at all.
I think there's more dumb gossip about the punk stuff but I think that also has to do with the dumb gossip punk stuff being way more fun to fight about than the VKM stuff. It's low stakes, pineapple-on-pizza stuff. "Punk is a little bitch vs. TK is a little bitch" is a kind of fun shouting match to have. Not so much with "Vincent Kennedy McMahon has been credibly accused of rape and sex trafficking". That's just a huge bummer to talk about. I don't want to get in an argument with someone defending vince, I just want to immediately remove them from my life forever.
Not to discredit your point but I don’t see how that situation has to do with the Elite one? Yeah it’s silly for people to say they’re gonna stop watching bc some wrestlers don’t get along but HHH has continuously received plenty of criticism for his comments regarding the lawsuit.
In fact every thread I’ve seen on him since it gets brought up in some capacity. No one has forgotten about it at all.
That's every wrestling argument ever though? Lol
Nobody ever stays on topic its just. Critique one company and you get told 'but company I don't like did this thing once so HA I'm right your wrong my company better'
The Triple h takes were unreasonable and ridiculous.
Here's a thought experiment. Imagine you're Triple h. You've been in the business 30+ years. You've known this person for 30+ years. Through all your ups and downs, trials and tribulations, this person has been there for 30+ years. This person has taught you nearly everything you know about the business for decades. And as a matter of fact, you would not be sitting in the seat, answering the questions, if not for the person that mentored you for 30 plus years.
Now imagine this person is your father-in-law; imagine that you married his daughter. Imagine that he is a grand parent to your children. And now a big ppv weekend is coming up. Things couldn't be better. Business is booming; things haven't been this great in years. Then one day you wake up, and this person that you looked up to, loved, and admired for 30 plus years is alleged to be the most vile monster imaginable.
And now you've got to go to a press conference that was about wrestling and answer questions about horrific sex crimes. And btw, how's your wife taking it? What do you say to your kids who are old enough now to know something isn't right? How do you reconcile who this person is alleged to be vs the person you knew for almost a half century?
Maybe it's just me. I'd cut him some slack.
You gotta remember that most of this sub grew up watching WWE, even when for like a decade it was objectively terrible. They are fanboys for life and will of course instinctually defend the company. You see this weirdness throughout all fandoms. Trying to make sense out of the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance you see on here will just drive you mad. Try your best to ignore it.
Your observation is correct btw.
I mean, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance define human nature. None of us really apply our value systems evenly much less practice what we preach when our emotions drive us to make impulsive choices. Take for example people who complain about carbon emissions while they use private jets. A lot of it is just bluster to put on a good public image. Look at actions, not words, in all of society. Not what are these people saying, what are they actually doing, and more importantly, what are they hiding?
When men in power get old, they desire young women. If the true details of things like Epstein Island were public, it would bring down the entire western power structure, right down to the heads of central banks, presidents, CEOs, legislators, and major figures in Hollywood as well. Old powerful men have a strong biological desire to impregnate young women, and the lack of consequences for actions combined with near limitless resources lets them exercise these drives. It's perhaps the strongest craving in existence, driven by millions of years of evolution.
Vince might get cancelled, but in his wake countless other powerful men get away with it and will continue to do it, until the system of checks and balances stops the behavior. Checks and balances are meant to keep human nature in check. Human nature unchecked can be quite destructive.
The Vince stuff was LITERALLY brought up IN the Punk Interview. It's STILL being talked about.
But Vince has become "Persona Non Grata" in a lot of circles, so there are places who won't talk about it; not because it isn't a big deal, but because they don't want to waste their breath on him.
The Punk Interview is a few days old, not a couple of months old, that's why it's everywhere now.
WWE is getting MASSIVE flak from the media right now (and deservedly so). In addition to already having the Vince allegations looming over them and talent constantly being put on the spot to answer questions about Vince, Ronda has now come forward with her own allegations while painting a pretty bad picture of the backstage culture (especially towards women).
He should have told his staff to ignore it on Dynamite. That brought the question to the fore.
Better to say that he disagrees with Punk's version but he has moved on and it's not worth living in the past.
If you were a huge Punk fan before, what did he do in AEW that caused that to change?
Did you listen to the interview?
Punk made many valid points in it and also went out of his way to say the positives of AEW outweigh the negatives and that Tony is a good person that he has no problem with.
yeah, its too bad the guy is just in the completely wrong industry for the kind of person that he is. Scared for his life over a fight that didnt even involve him in any way.
pretty sure you didn’t need to be there to understand why no litigation ever happen from Tony’s lawyers. they had no case that he “feared for his life” and had to let Punk go without a no compete. there were no ramifications for Punk because he didn’t do shit to Tony except call him a clown.
you guys work yourselves so easily trying to lick Tony’s boots lmao. you can admit he mismanaged the entire situation while also remaining a fan
If there was no case, then Phil would have a right to sue for wrongful termination to get the millions of dollars owed to him in his contract.
He didn't.
Why?
That really seems to be getting skipped over by the "nothing new was said" folks, along with the All In NDA and the super secret backstage tape of what really happened and would have been released had Punk said anything about what happened apparently not being a thing.
If Punk was fired without cause he’s absolutely the type to file a wrongful termination suit. The fact that he hasn’t supports that he was dumped with cause.
In a way, it's both. If you remember the reports that came out after the whole Wembley incident, the dirtsheets said while Punk knocked the monitors over towards Tony, he was screaming at him to fire him. In Punk's mind, he decided he was quitting after the match with Joe but didn't publicly announce it and Tony after supposedly consulting the disciplinary committee announced Punk was terminated.
It's like the Toni Storm situation. Are you going to say she quit WWE because she asked for her release and flew back home? Or that WWE fired her when they released her?
People are saying Punk could've sued if he was wrongfully terminated, but historically the guy has talked about being tired of court cases. When WWE used him and he won the case, he could've sued back for damages to get some money back or all of what he spent on the lawyers' fees. But he didn't, and if in his mind he thought he quit AEW before Tony could fire him, there's no reason for him to sue whatsoever even if Tony was physically harmed, which we don't know for sure.
I really don’t understand why punk slagging the company a bit is such a big deal. They could’ve just said and done nothing and moved on clean. This all seems so ridiculous
... He did, on ROH?
Just because it wasn't all over AEW apart from the occasional Eddie/Brisco segment doesn't mean it wasn't built on the actual show it's a PPV for.
If it's not on AEW television, they aren't promoting it properly.
If it's on AEW television, it shouldn't be taking time from AEW.
People here ain't gonna be happy no matter what he does.
At this point the only way Tony can come out of this ok is not saying a word about the interview, focus on improving himself, and look forward. AEW can just hope that after everything that has happened that he learns from it and matures. Really the only way this can become a good thing for AEW.
He was fired 6 months ago. Everyone involved wants to move on. Let the wrestlers/staff move on. Media should just stop asking these questions (Helwani included).
> Media should just stop asking these questions
the whole purpose of media is to get the most interesting content which brings in more viewers and revenue
>everyone But Punk wants to move on
It’s literally Jack Perry’s gimmick so, he doesn’t want to either
And the EVPs who referenced JP twice last night, and also made their entire gimmick basically a parody of what punk said. But everyone else, yes absolutely.
It's not though. I can think of atleast one other time with his Instagram stories where he trashed the plan for the match with Moxley publicly, and he could have easily swerved the questions or given non answers on the MMA Hour.
Granted I didn't think he said as much bad stuff as the rest of the internet but still he made his negative views known.
There was also an interview with Sports Illustrated last year that all these people are conveniently forgetting, even though nobody on here ever heard the end of that shit when it was published. And using Hausman as his mouthpiece.
Wait so no one heard Edge say he asked to come out and drop the “positive pipebomb” ?
Or is it still TK is bad and it was all him to get back at punk and Edge is not his own human that can speak for himself?
It's shameful how AEW is some how the bad guy in this, and how high up on that box some are willing to go to defend a guy who's shown multiple times now he's a hypocrite only in it for himself.
The guy won't bury the hatchet with his long time friend to ease locker room tension, and everyone defends him saying Colt sued him why should he talk to him and get sued again.
Yet Punk was very quick to bury that hatchet with a company that sued him and even fired him on his wedding day. A company he spent 10 years burying. I wonder what made one hatchet easier to bury than the other. 💰🤷♂️💰
It's insane that this is what people are actually mad about because that was basically the gist of his promo. You'd think he called CM Punk a raging narcissist and pathological liar by the reactions.
You know there is an entire chasm of a middle ground between "Forcing an uncomfortable talent to do something under duress" and "Copeland single-handedly deciding to cut a Rah-Rah AEW promo to open Dynamite".
It probably was as simple as "Hey, I didn't like what Punk said on that interview, can you cut a positive promo to open Dynamite?" "Yeah sure no problem".
Edge literally said in the promo he asked to do this, almost like he expected people to say this & wanted to be clear but it doesn't seem like enough people paid attention or even believe that.
I really REALLY don't think Tony would even ask Copeland do that. Just like he didn't have to ask Moxley to do the one after Brawl Out, Moxley ASKED to do that one. If he asks someone to cut that promo, Copeland is pretty far down on the list. He'd probably just ask Ospreay to cut the exact same promo before his match. Copeland went from not being booked on the show to being announced as opening the show an hour before. All signs point to it being him suggesting it to Tony.
I really don't see how in a million years people think if Tony was gonna pick someone to give that promo it would be Copeland. If anything, that's what made it so weird. If it's Swerve or Ospreay it actually kinda fits their current characters/story arcs. Copeland was so left field that it seems obvious he asked to do it himself.
The people who still call him Edge and think his sole purpose in AEW is to bury the young guys are always suspect to me. They paint the guy way more devious than he is and I've seen it since the day he signed.
Decade, 25 years, who's counting?
But on top of that, it's not like he really is doing anything different now than he did in WWE. It's not like how different Moxley was from Dean Ambrose. His presentation is still Edge, same as it was after the Brood run. So it's pretty easy to slip in the old habit.
To be fair, I called Kassius Ohno "Hero" the entire time he was in WWE. Same with KENTA. Sometimes you gotta stick with what made you love them.
Also, Taz totally called him Edge last week lol
ngl I still call him Edge a lot. "Edge" is Edge. "Adam Copeland" is just some guy. It especially doesn't help that 3 of AEW's top talents are named Adam.
My guy he has been one of my favorite wrestlers pretty much since he debuted. I've known him as Edge for the better part of my entire existence on this planet. I think it's completely understandable for people to still refer to him as Edge, just like people called KO Kevin Steen when he first got to NXT
He already flinched by firing a bunch of people just because he got called out on not a acting like a boss.....give him a break, what else do you want him to do? :p
It could have been the talent themselves wanted to and took umbrage with the way CM Punk painted the company. Adam Copeland probably asked Tony to somewhat address it and he gave the okay. I highly doubt Tony Khan came up to him with the express purpose of opening the show and telling him what to say.
People are so used to one guy writing everyone's promos, word-for-word in their favorite company for decades that they think it's the norm everywhere else.
It’s tribalism to think the person producing a tv show controls the dialogue on that tv show? Ok…
Copeland might believe what he’s saying 100% - he probably does, but TK letting him cut that promo was AEW’s response to Punk.
The only reason he’s in this position in the first place is because he didn’t say anything when given the chance. So instead he has edge come out and do a goofy promo supporting him which is not congruent with any television story
Has Tony ever talked about anything bad??? He’s even in denial about how bad his company is doing 🤷♂️he’s been a fan long enough to know controversy creates cash and if your just gonna insult ur paying audience and not give them an answer, then who’s coming back - AEW isn’t gaining any new viewers and it’s Tony’s fault…
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LOOK IN MY EYES WHAT DO YOU SEE STATEMENT OF NEUTRALITY
Statements of partiality have been banned from Collision… https://preview.redd.it/qzxokuiqwisc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c1e90cf514206f06419b5be96777f180dcd0559
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[удалено]
No win situation ..... not saying anything is the most sensible thing to do
I mean, given how dirt sheets, the media, and how people on social media are these days, anyone that's relevant in any industry is in a "no-win situation" when it comes to controversy surrounding them
This is exactly why I almost hate talent doing interviews. Because no matter WHAT they say, everything nowadays is clipped and shared and analyzed and just thrown into the machine, then it’s “oh what do you have to say about X’s comments?”, then the responses get clipped and shared and analyzed and thrown back into the machine, and it just goes on and on forever
Someone should've told him that before last night's Dynamite then
Where nobody actually said anything about Punk? The closest was The Buck's saying "cry me a river", which honestly isn't too different from what Punk and Drew have been doing. Even the Edge promo was literally just a dude saying "hey, it's just wrestling, it's supposed to be fun, you can love one company without booing another, or you can like every company" Which really shouldn't be a controversial statement at all.
And i'm pretty sure the cry me a river was a reference to Jack Perry.
It was, but the timing was very specific.
I'm convinced wrestling fans have an exceptional ability to create their own narratives out of thin air and ride them into the ground. I agree, they didn't say anything about Punk or the interview anywhere on the show and it's ridiculous the stretches some fans will take to fit their bias.
they also have an exceptional ability to not see things for what they are like people still believing that Cody giving his Mania match to the Rock then taking it back was a work and not the actual pivot that it was given fan backlash...pretending Adam's promo wasn't at least tangentially made a result of Punk's interview, is to engage in more cope than Adam's last name.
Yeah. Edge was basically responding to the IWC tribalism and their negative response to everything this week.
And the IWC really hated being told to just be nice/normal
“Hey fuck you for telling me to be normal. This is why people hate your fucking company, because you want people to enjoy what they like and be happy. That’s so fucking cringe of you.”
What was said about Punk on Dynamite?
Nothing. the Bucks did a shout out to Jack Perry. But for Punk fans that alone is alone to a crime
I just wanna know how Is it that AEW is seriously get more flak from fans over the Elite/Punk fiasco compared to WWE/VKM and the entire company hiding and protecting it? Like HHH comes out and says I haven't even read the lawsuit, lets move on and focus on only the positives and WWE fans are like YEAHHHHHHH!!!! You tell everyone!!! Hey lets trash AEW and this Punk/Elite stuff instead. Like man does this not make wrestling fans look bad at all?
Literally EVERYONE came out and said Triple H handled that horribly.
Including mainstream media outlets
And they were right to. Meltzer for once put it perfectly when he said as much as he personally likes Hunter that doesn’t change the fact that Hunter absolutely got that wrong and handled it in just about the worst way possible.
Yep, for 24 hours then it never came up again. That is the difference
It came up that week. Wait until after mania, then see if anyone still cares.
Huh....do you literally live under a rock or something? The VKM thing was super big and still is, HHH took tons of flack for that line and still does if people bring it up. Your post is one big deflection. This has nothing to do with wrestling fans, this has to do with your comprehension of a situation. I will say wrestling fans are terrible though, just like any other fanbase including sports fans that go burn out jerseys and do death threats live to athelets.
I think this is true for the broader media but in the internet wrestling discourse that was different. Even after the first Wall Street article, you were still getting comment on SC about how VKM would handle staff better than TK and especially Brawl Out.
Punk's comment about Tony not being a real boss had people going about Vince > Tony. We can talk about how ruthless and business savy Vince was to get WWE to where it is. We can also talk about how great Benoit was as a wrestler. What they both allegedly did though is so bad it has tarnished everything else. You simply can't talk about Vince anymore I'm a positive light.
Ima go ahead and say "allegedly" isn't really applicable in Benoit's case.
Definitely not going to argue against that. I do wonder how it works on a forensic or legal level though. Benoit wasn’t tried and found guilty. They were all found in the home dead and investigators found him guilty of murder post-mortem. Since he wasn’t tried and convicted of anything, how does that really work? On some level, I’d think it may be some level of “allegedly”. Idk.
"Alleged" indicates that the accusation hasn't been proven or convicted. As Benoit wasn't alive to be convicted (and posthumous trials are rare), the rather large amount of actual evidence that detectives used to close the case is enough to take this from "alleged" to "Chris Benoit killed his wife and son by strangling them before taking his own life, and there's no evidence to suggest anyone else was involved in the murders". There's no need to walk on eggshells on this one.
Because that narrative is true. He would have handled that situation way better. Nobody can sit here and deny that. He just didn't handle himself well.
HHH is only COO for one. TKO handled the questions. It's also an active lawsuit. And yet, HHH should've answered it like Cody.
CCO. Triple H’s COO title was just an on-screen authority figure title.
VKM got fired.
Idk about you, but there was a ton of backlash to how HHH handled that question. And since then almost every top star has been asked about it (including Cody on that SAME scrum) and have all addressed their feelings on it upfront with no dancing around it. I don't think anyone has tried to hide the VKM thing, if they were, they would have instructed all their talent to never talk about it. Something they clearly have not instructed their talent to do. But it is different on TV, because stuff like that just shouldn't be talked about on TV when you're running a show. Let's be honest though, wrestling fans need no help to look terrible lol
Seriously…there was so much criticism of VKM that it forced him out of the company….who are the fans supposed to be mad at now that Vince is gone? We don’t know who else was complicit. Once we do find out, I’m sure there will be plenty of justified outrage towards those people. But for now, saying that fans can’t be frustrated with AEW because what Vince did was worse is dumb.
I didn't read much of what happened, but didn't Lesnar got cancelled and wiped from all future plans the second he was slightly associated with the VKM thing?
I think they’re referring more to Triple H’s response to the VKM questions than what McMahon did, which is more analogous to Khan tripping over his dick in these scrums
What fans were you talking to?  People were *rinsing* Triple H for such a terrible answer given that guys like Seth didn't have Triple H's status or position and still gave a better answer.
That's not correct at all. The Vince court documents exploded the sub along with the mainstream. I would think that most people - the fabled "silent majority" - are pro both companies succeeding and can easily see there is no bad guy as such here, just that it was a bad situation. Khan's inexperience as a boss, Punk's attitude, EVPs being wrestlers in a different clique to Punk, etc. Don't think there's anywhere near as much drama for Punk as Vince at all.
I think there's more dumb gossip about the punk stuff but I think that also has to do with the dumb gossip punk stuff being way more fun to fight about than the VKM stuff. It's low stakes, pineapple-on-pizza stuff. "Punk is a little bitch vs. TK is a little bitch" is a kind of fun shouting match to have. Not so much with "Vincent Kennedy McMahon has been credibly accused of rape and sex trafficking". That's just a huge bummer to talk about. I don't want to get in an argument with someone defending vince, I just want to immediately remove them from my life forever.
Not to discredit your point but I don’t see how that situation has to do with the Elite one? Yeah it’s silly for people to say they’re gonna stop watching bc some wrestlers don’t get along but HHH has continuously received plenty of criticism for his comments regarding the lawsuit. In fact every thread I’ve seen on him since it gets brought up in some capacity. No one has forgotten about it at all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
That's every wrestling argument ever though? Lol Nobody ever stays on topic its just. Critique one company and you get told 'but company I don't like did this thing once so HA I'm right your wrong my company better'
Bad faith argument, making up your own narrative
The Triple h takes were unreasonable and ridiculous. Here's a thought experiment. Imagine you're Triple h. You've been in the business 30+ years. You've known this person for 30+ years. Through all your ups and downs, trials and tribulations, this person has been there for 30+ years. This person has taught you nearly everything you know about the business for decades. And as a matter of fact, you would not be sitting in the seat, answering the questions, if not for the person that mentored you for 30 plus years. Now imagine this person is your father-in-law; imagine that you married his daughter. Imagine that he is a grand parent to your children. And now a big ppv weekend is coming up. Things couldn't be better. Business is booming; things haven't been this great in years. Then one day you wake up, and this person that you looked up to, loved, and admired for 30 plus years is alleged to be the most vile monster imaginable. And now you've got to go to a press conference that was about wrestling and answer questions about horrific sex crimes. And btw, how's your wife taking it? What do you say to your kids who are old enough now to know something isn't right? How do you reconcile who this person is alleged to be vs the person you knew for almost a half century? Maybe it's just me. I'd cut him some slack.
You gotta remember that most of this sub grew up watching WWE, even when for like a decade it was objectively terrible. They are fanboys for life and will of course instinctually defend the company. You see this weirdness throughout all fandoms. Trying to make sense out of the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance you see on here will just drive you mad. Try your best to ignore it. Your observation is correct btw.
I mean, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance define human nature. None of us really apply our value systems evenly much less practice what we preach when our emotions drive us to make impulsive choices. Take for example people who complain about carbon emissions while they use private jets. A lot of it is just bluster to put on a good public image. Look at actions, not words, in all of society. Not what are these people saying, what are they actually doing, and more importantly, what are they hiding? When men in power get old, they desire young women. If the true details of things like Epstein Island were public, it would bring down the entire western power structure, right down to the heads of central banks, presidents, CEOs, legislators, and major figures in Hollywood as well. Old powerful men have a strong biological desire to impregnate young women, and the lack of consequences for actions combined with near limitless resources lets them exercise these drives. It's perhaps the strongest craving in existence, driven by millions of years of evolution. Vince might get cancelled, but in his wake countless other powerful men get away with it and will continue to do it, until the system of checks and balances stops the behavior. Checks and balances are meant to keep human nature in check. Human nature unchecked can be quite destructive.
"Like man does this not make wrestling fans look bad at all? " Nope, because nobody is defending that shit.
The Vince stuff was LITERALLY brought up IN the Punk Interview. It's STILL being talked about. But Vince has become "Persona Non Grata" in a lot of circles, so there are places who won't talk about it; not because it isn't a big deal, but because they don't want to waste their breath on him. The Punk Interview is a few days old, not a couple of months old, that's why it's everywhere now.
because one of them is a horrific case of institutional abuse, rape and sex trafficking and the other is a company being mismanaged
WWE is getting MASSIVE flak from the media right now (and deservedly so). In addition to already having the Vince allegations looming over them and talent constantly being put on the spot to answer questions about Vince, Ronda has now come forward with her own allegations while painting a pretty bad picture of the backstage culture (especially towards women).
He should have told his staff to ignore it on Dynamite. That brought the question to the fore. Better to say that he disagrees with Punk's version but he has moved on and it's not worth living in the past.
Punk would've come up anyway. He just had an interview talking about Tony and AEW.
You cant seriously believe the question wouldn't have been asked with Cope's promo? Legitimately?
Plus he’s already said what he’s had to say about the situation
Maybe he shouldn’t have one of his top stars not open the show by addressing it either.
Absolutely agree. The company should be letting this kind of drama lie for multiple reasons.
This has to be the ultimate 'never meet your heroes"-experience for Tony.
I used to be a huge Punk fan and I bet this was so tough for TK.
If you were a huge Punk fan before, what did he do in AEW that caused that to change? Did you listen to the interview? Punk made many valid points in it and also went out of his way to say the positives of AEW outweigh the negatives and that Tony is a good person that he has no problem with.
yeah, its too bad the guy is just in the completely wrong industry for the kind of person that he is. Scared for his life over a fight that didnt even involve him in any way.
Were you there?
pretty sure you didn’t need to be there to understand why no litigation ever happen from Tony’s lawyers. they had no case that he “feared for his life” and had to let Punk go without a no compete. there were no ramifications for Punk because he didn’t do shit to Tony except call him a clown. you guys work yourselves so easily trying to lick Tony’s boots lmao. you can admit he mismanaged the entire situation while also remaining a fan
If there was no case, then Phil would have a right to sue for wrongful termination to get the millions of dollars owed to him in his contract. He didn't. Why?
Tony clenching his teeth, I’m sure, but it’s for the best. Thank god lmao
He should have been doing this from the beginning but I’m glad to see him finally start to have some business sense.
[удалено]
"On this day, I see positivity."
"and Will Ospreeeeeeeeeee"
yea that was my takeaway from it, he said some good things but ospree is forever in my mind
Which is crazy cause didn't he say it correctly in the beginning of is promo?
not that i remember, he said we have some great talent like will ospree and that was it for me, its forever will ospree
He says it as Ospree during the promo too before announcing him later
Okada has come to liiiiiiiiight
Open my eyes What do you see A cult of positivity
I'm still curious what the "fired for cause, and fearful of my life" vs punks "I quit and didn't talk to Tony at all since" truth really is.
That really seems to be getting skipped over by the "nothing new was said" folks, along with the All In NDA and the super secret backstage tape of what really happened and would have been released had Punk said anything about what happened apparently not being a thing.
There's a video of it.
Somewhere
If Punk was fired without cause he’s absolutely the type to file a wrongful termination suit. The fact that he hasn’t supports that he was dumped with cause.
The fact that he hasn't could honestly support either side, like why would he sue for wrongful termination if he quit?
Punk is saying he quit and wasn’t fired, so no he wouldn’t file a wrongful termination suit if he quit.
There is no way he didn't get a payout or wouldn't sue if he didn't.
In a way, it's both. If you remember the reports that came out after the whole Wembley incident, the dirtsheets said while Punk knocked the monitors over towards Tony, he was screaming at him to fire him. In Punk's mind, he decided he was quitting after the match with Joe but didn't publicly announce it and Tony after supposedly consulting the disciplinary committee announced Punk was terminated. It's like the Toni Storm situation. Are you going to say she quit WWE because she asked for her release and flew back home? Or that WWE fired her when they released her? People are saying Punk could've sued if he was wrongfully terminated, but historically the guy has talked about being tired of court cases. When WWE used him and he won the case, he could've sued back for damages to get some money back or all of what he spent on the lawyers' fees. But he didn't, and if in his mind he thought he quit AEW before Tony could fire him, there's no reason for him to sue whatsoever even if Tony was physically harmed, which we don't know for sure.
If he says anything about it he will get criticized, if he says nothing he gets criticized, no win situation
he should've faked a heart attack so that his response was null and void
I really don’t understand why punk slagging the company a bit is such a big deal. They could’ve just said and done nothing and moved on clean. This all seems so ridiculous
He's there to promote Supercard of Honor. There is no way he's going to take away attention from that. This is the right way.
If he had any interest in promoting Supercard of Honor maybe he should have taken actual care of the card and build the last few weeks.
... He did, on ROH? Just because it wasn't all over AEW apart from the occasional Eddie/Brisco segment doesn't mean it wasn't built on the actual show it's a PPV for.
If it's not on AEW television, they aren't promoting it properly. If it's on AEW television, it shouldn't be taking time from AEW. People here ain't gonna be happy no matter what he does.
What do they say about publicity?
A lot of people who claim nobody cares about AEW are very upset about a promo on a show they apparently don't watch.
If the gripe-bomb taught me anything, it's the value of "No comment"
Oddly enough, Punk didn't even field a question for that. He just looked at a guy and said "Did you have a question about Colt Cabana?" and went off.
At this point the only way Tony can come out of this ok is not saying a word about the interview, focus on improving himself, and look forward. AEW can just hope that after everything that has happened that he learns from it and matures. Really the only way this can become a good thing for AEW.
 Tony inside when he was asked
Ariel right now 
Wise call. Nothing to gain and better to try and move on.
I think you mean "WISE CHOICE"
He was fired 6 months ago. Everyone involved wants to move on. Let the wrestlers/staff move on. Media should just stop asking these questions (Helwani included).
> Media should just stop asking these questions the whole purpose of media is to get the most interesting content which brings in more viewers and revenue
Everyone But Punk wants to move on.
>everyone But Punk wants to move on It’s literally Jack Perry’s gimmick so, he doesn’t want to either And the EVPs who referenced JP twice last night, and also made their entire gimmick basically a parody of what punk said. But everyone else, yes absolutely.
Is the first time punk said anything about aew bad stuff in more than 2 years, probably the last one
it’s not the first time lol
It's not though. I can think of atleast one other time with his Instagram stories where he trashed the plan for the match with Moxley publicly, and he could have easily swerved the questions or given non answers on the MMA Hour. Granted I didn't think he said as much bad stuff as the rest of the internet but still he made his negative views known.
There was also an interview with Sports Illustrated last year that all these people are conveniently forgetting, even though nobody on here ever heard the end of that shit when it was published. And using Hausman as his mouthpiece.
Trashing the company in live press scrum didnt count, gotcha.
You're wrong but it's cute that you think otherwise.
That's because he can never stay healthy enough to actually wrestle so he has to keep his name in the headlines some other way.
If he wanted to move on he straight up wouldn't have answered the questions Ariel Helwani asked or done so in a more diplomatic manner.
Good. Just move on because I am so sick of hearing about it from anyone
They need to ask that fool why he won’t get a haircut
Tony Khan: Punk...your nose is too small to snort coke with a god!
I don't know why I read this in Chevy Chase's voice, but I could 100% see him saying something like this. Random, I know. Lol
 I said no comment
Wait they actually asked him serious questions that weren't "what's your favorite color?" WOW
Good on him for not engaging. He needs to focus on AEW/ROH and not what a former employee did.
Wait so no one heard Edge say he asked to come out and drop the “positive pipebomb” ? Or is it still TK is bad and it was all him to get back at punk and Edge is not his own human that can speak for himself?
So many butthurt TK/AEW haters in here. They probably didn't bat an eyelash about Triple HGH's lawsuit comments.
they were too busy typing up hypotheticals as to why it was the best thing to say at the time
•"I'd rather not focus on that" • Focused almost 10 minutes of Dynamite to respond to that
Ok but that’s not what he wants to focus on in this call to promote RoH, idk how this is getting criticized
Both TK and HHH just want to focus on the positives guys.
Good call. Nothing to be gained. He's gone, AEW has moved on. Nothing to talk about.
It's shameful how AEW is some how the bad guy in this, and how high up on that box some are willing to go to defend a guy who's shown multiple times now he's a hypocrite only in it for himself. The guy won't bury the hatchet with his long time friend to ease locker room tension, and everyone defends him saying Colt sued him why should he talk to him and get sued again. Yet Punk was very quick to bury that hatchet with a company that sued him and even fired him on his wedding day. A company he spent 10 years burying. I wonder what made one hatchet easier to bury than the other. 💰🤷♂️💰
Of course lol
Literally anything we would say would get eaten alive by Punk's wack ass fans and everyone else too
He's not going to talk about it but he will send edge out to do a promo.
how dare edge compliment every wrestling company say he loves wrestling and is happy at aew
It's insane that this is what people are actually mad about because that was basically the gist of his promo. You'd think he called CM Punk a raging narcissist and pathological liar by the reactions.
if he didnt say anything they would claim he agrees with punk too.
You really think he forced Copeland to that promo ... Copeland was uncomfortable doing it ?
TK is both a terrible boss that can't control talent from fighting and also a master boss that can force talent to do what he says
So is he strong or weak? I just can’t keep up anymore…
Whichever ways that fit anti-AEW narrative.
Whatever works best for the moment I guess
You know there is an entire chasm of a middle ground between "Forcing an uncomfortable talent to do something under duress" and "Copeland single-handedly deciding to cut a Rah-Rah AEW promo to open Dynamite". It probably was as simple as "Hey, I didn't like what Punk said on that interview, can you cut a positive promo to open Dynamite?" "Yeah sure no problem".
Edge literally said in the promo he asked to do this, almost like he expected people to say this & wanted to be clear but it doesn't seem like enough people paid attention or even believe that.
We're in a room full of wrestling fans. The average IQ in here is 70.
I really REALLY don't think Tony would even ask Copeland do that. Just like he didn't have to ask Moxley to do the one after Brawl Out, Moxley ASKED to do that one. If he asks someone to cut that promo, Copeland is pretty far down on the list. He'd probably just ask Ospreay to cut the exact same promo before his match. Copeland went from not being booked on the show to being announced as opening the show an hour before. All signs point to it being him suggesting it to Tony.
He literally said he asked TK for the time as well, but ofc the IWC needs to make a story out of it somehow.
I really don't see how in a million years people think if Tony was gonna pick someone to give that promo it would be Copeland. If anything, that's what made it so weird. If it's Swerve or Ospreay it actually kinda fits their current characters/story arcs. Copeland was so left field that it seems obvious he asked to do it himself.
I'm afraid this is way too much nuance for the average tribalism-fueled wrestling fan's brain to process.
The people who still call him Edge and think his sole purpose in AEW is to bury the young guys are always suspect to me. They paint the guy way more devious than he is and I've seen it since the day he signed.
Calling him Edge is a tough habit to break when he's been wrestling as that since I was 11. I think this run has been great though.
>The people who still call him Edge He's been known as Edge for the past decade at least, I don't really think there's harm in still calling him that.
Past decade? lol
Decade, 25 years, who's counting? But on top of that, it's not like he really is doing anything different now than he did in WWE. It's not like how different Moxley was from Dean Ambrose. His presentation is still Edge, same as it was after the Brood run. So it's pretty easy to slip in the old habit.
My fault, the past 2 decades actually 🤓☝️
Its only been a few months, its not like moxley
To be fair, I called Kassius Ohno "Hero" the entire time he was in WWE. Same with KENTA. Sometimes you gotta stick with what made you love them. Also, Taz totally called him Edge last week lol
ngl I still call him Edge a lot. "Edge" is Edge. "Adam Copeland" is just some guy. It especially doesn't help that 3 of AEW's top talents are named Adam.
Adam Copeland is the guy that was in that one episode of The Flash
Unrelated but now would be a good time to get the Edge trademark back. A real popular word with the kids these days, I hear.
My guy he has been one of my favorite wrestlers pretty much since he debuted. I've known him as Edge for the better part of my entire existence on this planet. I think it's completely understandable for people to still refer to him as Edge, just like people called KO Kevin Steen when he first got to NXT
I thought he was a weak boss who couldn’t make people do things?
Stupid reporters. Adam Copeland answers for Tony now
I’m sure the overwhelming wwe marks in this sub will be completely rational and not freak out about this and blow it out of proportion
God fuckin' dammit. Some of these comments make me wanna run headfirst into a brick wall. I mean, I'm not gonna but cripes, some of the takes in here.
So this means there was no NDA?
That's a great question Ariel, I can't answer it but I do have to say we have a great card coming up on next week's Dynamite.
Hell yeah my boi Ciclope back there chilling with CM Punk. 🔥
Of course he’s not going to talk about it. Adam Copeland went out and saved the company last night. It’s now a non-issue.
“Dad said not to say anything or else he’ll make me fire 10 more wrestlers. And this time it has to be *good* ones.”
Classic tony
That’s the right thing to do if we are being honest
He already flinched by firing a bunch of people just because he got called out on not a acting like a boss.....give him a break, what else do you want him to do? :p
Tony is growing up.
He has been dodging questions for a long time. This isn’t new at all.
You can ask him how's the weather and he'll avoid answering that and pivot to advertising Dynamite.
As he should. Wish all AEW talent had the same response Tony Schiavone had lmao.
That Adam Copeland promo was not needed.
Comments from Dynamite last night were TK’s response… and it was weird.
It could have been the talent themselves wanted to and took umbrage with the way CM Punk painted the company. Adam Copeland probably asked Tony to somewhat address it and he gave the okay. I highly doubt Tony Khan came up to him with the express purpose of opening the show and telling him what to say.
i wonder if people believe this or are just brain washed with their tribalism that they think aew wrestlers can't think for themselves.
People are so used to one guy writing everyone's promos, word-for-word in their favorite company for decades that they think it's the norm everywhere else.
It’s tribalism to think the person producing a tv show controls the dialogue on that tv show? Ok… Copeland might believe what he’s saying 100% - he probably does, but TK letting him cut that promo was AEW’s response to Punk.
The only reason he’s in this position in the first place is because he didn’t say anything when given the chance. So instead he has edge come out and do a goofy promo supporting him which is not congruent with any television story
Has Tony ever talked about anything bad??? He’s even in denial about how bad his company is doing 🤷♂️he’s been a fan long enough to know controversy creates cash and if your just gonna insult ur paying audience and not give them an answer, then who’s coming back - AEW isn’t gaining any new viewers and it’s Tony’s fault…
Bro refuses to talk about it but books an entire show out of spite based around it lol.