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To my knowledge this has never been definitively stated either in the text or in WoB. I reread WoK recently and had forgotten about this, so I set to researching it some. I've seen the theory that, given that we learn in Oathbringer that Elhokar was a budding Lightweaver before he died, he himself was probably draining the Stormlight from the Plate gems without even knowing it, and that strikes me as plausible enough.
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Perhaps I'm misremembering. But isn't it Ialai and sadeas that attempted the slightly incompetent make it look like an accident assassination attempts?
That would drain them, but not necessarily crack them.
I suppose partially drained gems could be more likely to crack, but it's also plausible that the diagram snuck faulty gemstones into the logistics chain. They were going for subtle and looking like an accident.
If you pull too much from a stone at once, they crack. It's possible that the extra draw from his use, in addition to running the Plate, was sufficient to crack them.
I can’t get behind this cause of the shardblade, if he drained any stormlight he would have had a bond and if you have a bond you can’t use regular shardblades so Elhokar couldn’t have been bonded yet. Plus with how everyone has reacted to using/touching a dead shardblade there’s no way he’d be fighting a chasmfiend with no effect. Love the idea but it just doesn’t make sense for me
That isnt true. The initial stage of the bond can last years, and already allows for the use of stormlight for basic stuff. See Kaladin having used Stormlight before bondiny Syl at all.
This is a good point. Anyone who has started a bond finds the shardblades screaming. I don’t know why everyone is downvoting you. It’s a solid enough point.
Unless we have some proof that someone can draw in storm light but not hear screaming when touching a shardblade. I can’t think of anything from the text that proves this.
As someone else pointed out in a reply to another comment, Dalinar is fine wielding a Shardblade in Words of Radiance even though at the end he realizes he's already used Stormlight to heal on the battlefield. Seems like you need to have sworn an Ideal before you start messing with the Blade's spren.
Unlikely. As Szeth nor Kaladin drained stormlight from plate, it is probably impossible to do so. Otherwise Kaladin would have tried to reclaim some of his light he lost during the duel. Or Szeth during the myriad of times he's fought someone in plate.
I figured it was just Graves and his crew. Though it doesn't state it for certain.
It may not be possible to drain light from someone else's shard plate, but it may be possible to drain light from the armour you yourself are wearing. I don't think we have seen a radiant wear shard plate yet
Even from just a physics perspective, the plate itself is heavily invested and would theoretically block any attempt to pull the light from inside it, but wouldn't offer the same protection to gems inside and unblocked by the actual plate.
We've seen Renarin wearing it multiple times in WoR before it's revealed he's been radiant, but he doesn't have a clue what's happening to him through that whole book so this doesn't give us any answers 🤣
It could be that the plate acts as a shield against Stormlight being drawn from gems within the plate to outside of the plate, but isn't as effective at doing this when the person drawing in the light is also within it?
General consensus is Elhokar unknowingly drawing Stormlight from his shardplate to heal in the initial fall is responsible for straining the gemstones unto cracking.
Shardblade screaming only seems to happen to a bonded Radiant. The way Elhokar only almost says the First Ideal means he was in the "close enough to bond to be accidentally using Stormlight" stage, but would still be unaffected by his Deadeye blade. If anything, it probably hampered his bond somewhat I believe, making it take longer than it necessarily should have.
Renarin was seen repeatedly dealing with the screams, but given the context at the time and just seemed like he was being weird.
I bet if you looked back at all of Elhokar's scenes in the early books, you could probably find moments where he was acting strange while holding a Blade.
So, Elokhar weakened the saddle strap himself. However the other assassination attempts were likely from Grave's branch of the diagram. They admit in WoR to wanting it to look like an accident, and make more attempts on the King where it would appear accidental.
When those all fail they move to directly kill him with shards.
Between this theory where Graves and his team is responsible, and the one where Elokhar is responsible because he was a budding radiant, my intuition says that the graves theory is more likely.
After multiple readings of the books, it is the more simple answer. It follows directly from the plot and things that were discussed. Personally, if there was a more involved explanation, I would’ve expected a comment from Brandon by now.
Am I just hallucinating? I swear there’s a part that heavily implies, or basically confirms, that Elhokar himself did it because he was hearing & seeing things (budding Lightweaver) and no one was taking his fears seriously. The Shardplate was him unintentionally absorbing Stormlight, which we know is pretty normal for budding radiants.
When Dalinar confronts Elhokar in chapter 69, Elhokar admits to cutting the strap himself. However, eight of the ten gemstone in his shardplate were broken during the chasmfiend hunt, and this wasn’t Elhokars fault. Leading theory is Elhokar absorbing stormlight because he’s a budding lightweaver.
Yeah I think that is confirmation enough, as we see him swearing the oaths and already know he had spren following him. It’s not “written in print” but there isn’t any other evidence to suggest otherwise.
Glad I’m not the only one, people are here in the comments giving shrugs and other random causes, but I had kept reading like “oh yes, mystery solved, makes sense”.
Elhokar cut the straps himself. He was paranoid about the Cryptics following him and wanted someone to figure it out for him. He broke his own gemstones when he got scared and took their Stormlight.
I am not quite sure, but I remember a theory that Dalinar managed to use the stormlight from those gemstones while protecting Elhokar from the claw. The stress shattered them similar to how the sudden use of stormlight when soul casting shatters gems. Though this is just a theory I like.
I actually don't like this one, because the gems are inside the plate and I *think* the plate ought to interfere with anything external draining gems inside of it.
It’s so amazing that we have this community. I remember reading WOT as it came out, if there was an online place like this, I couldn’t access it because I had no computer.
>!I honestly always assumed it was the Diagram, Graves and his people. Graves mentioned to Kaladin when they first met that they'd had multiple failed attempts on the king's life.!<
>!To my understanding, Kaladin didn't start being able to take in Stormlightuntill he actually interacted with Syl. I personally don't think Elhokar drained his own gemstones just because of this, he didnt interact with the cryptics during WOK!<
No one. He was seeing cryptics like shallan was. They accidentally inflated his paranoia which caused him to do dumb thing, including sabotaging his own armor
I feel like the reason why that was weak evidence was because it was *possible*, though not likely, to happen on its own. Sometimes gems just shatter when they're being used for Stormlight. Elhokar could've been just extremely unlucky, and I always assumed that was the answer. I do like the theories of either Dalinar or Elhokar using stormlight in those moments though, that would be cool and make sense.
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To my knowledge this has never been definitively stated either in the text or in WoB. I reread WoK recently and had forgotten about this, so I set to researching it some. I've seen the theory that, given that we learn in Oathbringer that Elhokar was a budding Lightweaver before he died, he himself was probably draining the Stormlight from the Plate gems without even knowing it, and that strikes me as plausible enough.
Ok this makes a lot of sense. I can’t find it now but I remember him mentioning seeing strange beings, the Cryptics, even in WoK
Yeah, I noticed that on reread but obviously had no idea what it meant my first time through. More great foreshadowing.
And in Oathbringer, Wit bonds the Cryptic that was meant for Elhokar. It still lingered around where he had died.
We were robbed of Design interacting with Elhokar. Can you imagine? He *liked* Wit, he'd've had *such* an arc with her...
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Perhaps I'm misremembering. But isn't it Ialai and sadeas that attempted the slightly incompetent make it look like an accident assassination attempts?
The straps were Elhokar, the balcony was Graves.
Ah! That's right, moash was on guard right before it was cut! Thanks
That's how I understood it... also I assumed him seeing "people" everywhere was actually real. Them being cryptics.
Also didn't Dalinar catch the chasmfiend claw standing over Elhokar. And I believe Adolin thought he was glowing.
That would drain them, but not necessarily crack them. I suppose partially drained gems could be more likely to crack, but it's also plausible that the diagram snuck faulty gemstones into the logistics chain. They were going for subtle and looking like an accident.
If you pull too much from a stone at once, they crack. It's possible that the extra draw from his use, in addition to running the Plate, was sufficient to crack them.
I can’t get behind this cause of the shardblade, if he drained any stormlight he would have had a bond and if you have a bond you can’t use regular shardblades so Elhokar couldn’t have been bonded yet. Plus with how everyone has reacted to using/touching a dead shardblade there’s no way he’d be fighting a chasmfiend with no effect. Love the idea but it just doesn’t make sense for me
That isnt true. The initial stage of the bond can last years, and already allows for the use of stormlight for basic stuff. See Kaladin having used Stormlight before bondiny Syl at all.
Also, it is specifically noted in the end of WoR that Dalinar has been using Stormlight to heal for a long time.
>!Yes Kal drew in stormlight before he and Syl officially formed a bond, but he was interacting with her, and working to change.!<
This is a good point. Anyone who has started a bond finds the shardblades screaming. I don’t know why everyone is downvoting you. It’s a solid enough point. Unless we have some proof that someone can draw in storm light but not hear screaming when touching a shardblade. I can’t think of anything from the text that proves this.
As someone else pointed out in a reply to another comment, Dalinar is fine wielding a Shardblade in Words of Radiance even though at the end he realizes he's already used Stormlight to heal on the battlefield. Seems like you need to have sworn an Ideal before you start messing with the Blade's spren.
Unlikely. As Szeth nor Kaladin drained stormlight from plate, it is probably impossible to do so. Otherwise Kaladin would have tried to reclaim some of his light he lost during the duel. Or Szeth during the myriad of times he's fought someone in plate. I figured it was just Graves and his crew. Though it doesn't state it for certain.
It may not be possible to drain light from someone else's shard plate, but it may be possible to drain light from the armour you yourself are wearing. I don't think we have seen a radiant wear shard plate yet
Even from just a physics perspective, the plate itself is heavily invested and would theoretically block any attempt to pull the light from inside it, but wouldn't offer the same protection to gems inside and unblocked by the actual plate.
We've seen Renarin wearing it multiple times in WoR before it's revealed he's been radiant, but he doesn't have a clue what's happening to him through that whole book so this doesn't give us any answers 🤣
Renarin is also a bit 'different' - we don't know how different he is yet
We have though, when a certain individual "sees what they can do in WoR"
I was thinking about that fight, actually. Kal did use a helmet a gauntlet and didn't react to it
Actually I had it backwards. He powers it, not drains it.
Precisely
*haven't seen a radiant wear 'dead' shardplate (some radiants have formed their own living shardplate - two definite and a third strongly suggested)
Didn't Jasnah wear shardplate in the battle?
It could be that the plate acts as a shield against Stormlight being drawn from gems within the plate to outside of the plate, but isn't as effective at doing this when the person drawing in the light is also within it?
General consensus is Elhokar unknowingly drawing Stormlight from his shardplate to heal in the initial fall is responsible for straining the gemstones unto cracking.
Wouldn't that make it to where he can't use a shardblade?
Shardblade screaming only seems to happen to a bonded Radiant. The way Elhokar only almost says the First Ideal means he was in the "close enough to bond to be accidentally using Stormlight" stage, but would still be unaffected by his Deadeye blade. If anything, it probably hampered his bond somewhat I believe, making it take longer than it necessarily should have.
Not necessarily; though it would be an agonizing experience. This might explain his (as i read it) poor mental state.
Renarin was seen repeatedly dealing with the screams, but given the context at the time and just seemed like he was being weird. I bet if you looked back at all of Elhokar's scenes in the early books, you could probably find moments where he was acting strange while holding a Blade.
Elhokar probably wouldn't admit to anybody if he had problems using a blade.
Yep, very good point!
So, Elokhar weakened the saddle strap himself. However the other assassination attempts were likely from Grave's branch of the diagram. They admit in WoR to wanting it to look like an accident, and make more attempts on the King where it would appear accidental. When those all fail they move to directly kill him with shards.
Between this theory where Graves and his team is responsible, and the one where Elokhar is responsible because he was a budding radiant, my intuition says that the graves theory is more likely. After multiple readings of the books, it is the more simple answer. It follows directly from the plot and things that were discussed. Personally, if there was a more involved explanation, I would’ve expected a comment from Brandon by now.
Am I just hallucinating? I swear there’s a part that heavily implies, or basically confirms, that Elhokar himself did it because he was hearing & seeing things (budding Lightweaver) and no one was taking his fears seriously. The Shardplate was him unintentionally absorbing Stormlight, which we know is pretty normal for budding radiants.
When Dalinar confronts Elhokar in chapter 69, Elhokar admits to cutting the strap himself. However, eight of the ten gemstone in his shardplate were broken during the chasmfiend hunt, and this wasn’t Elhokars fault. Leading theory is Elhokar absorbing stormlight because he’s a budding lightweaver.
Yeah I think that is confirmation enough, as we see him swearing the oaths and already know he had spren following him. It’s not “written in print” but there isn’t any other evidence to suggest otherwise.
I thought the leading theory was graves did it
I remember this too
Glad I’m not the only one, people are here in the comments giving shrugs and other random causes, but I had kept reading like “oh yes, mystery solved, makes sense”.
Elhokar cut the straps himself. He was paranoid about the Cryptics following him and wanted someone to figure it out for him. He broke his own gemstones when he got scared and took their Stormlight.
I am not quite sure, but I remember a theory that Dalinar managed to use the stormlight from those gemstones while protecting Elhokar from the claw. The stress shattered them similar to how the sudden use of stormlight when soul casting shatters gems. Though this is just a theory I like.
I actually don't like this one, because the gems are inside the plate and I *think* the plate ought to interfere with anything external draining gems inside of it.
I just guessed it was the ones Moash was in with.
RAFO!
It’s so amazing that we have this community. I remember reading WOT as it came out, if there was an online place like this, I couldn’t access it because I had no computer.
Its heavily implied that graves and his crew sabotaged the gemstones, the saddle was cut by elhokar
>!I honestly always assumed it was the Diagram, Graves and his people. Graves mentioned to Kaladin when they first met that they'd had multiple failed attempts on the king's life.!< >!To my understanding, Kaladin didn't start being able to take in Stormlightuntill he actually interacted with Syl. I personally don't think Elhokar drained his own gemstones just because of this, he didnt interact with the cryptics during WOK!<
My impression is that Elhokar drained them himself without being aware. He was starting to show radiant signs already at that point.
No one. He was seeing cryptics like shallan was. They accidentally inflated his paranoia which caused him to do dumb thing, including sabotaging his own armor
I always assumed Dalinars insane feet of strength is what cracked them.
I feel like the reason why that was weak evidence was because it was *possible*, though not likely, to happen on its own. Sometimes gems just shatter when they're being used for Stormlight. Elhokar could've been just extremely unlucky, and I always assumed that was the answer. I do like the theories of either Dalinar or Elhokar using stormlight in those moments though, that would be cool and make sense.
I thought it was the ghost loods seeing as how they tried to get fuck moash to do it
The Ghostbloods weren’t working with Moash, it was the Diagram he got involved with.
Oh yeah that's right sorry it's been a while since I did my last re-read. (Just into early WOR currently)