The lengths weaboos go to convince themselves that they are just misunderstood japanese dudes born into the wrong body is terrifying. This makes me really sad to be honest
I say this, as a korean person, who has family who migrated to Japan during imperialism era. My family will ALWAYS be considered zainichi. They will never not be considered zainichi. My cousin, who is a japanese citizen, born and raised in japan, is not "technically" zainichi is still considered zainichi. she has a Japanese name, a japanese father, a japanese husband, lives a japanese life, but as SOON as other Japanese people learn she's actually half korean, her daughter MIGHT be spared the discrimination so long as no one learns that her mom is a hafu.
She might not legally be considered zainichi, but she will always be treated as zainichi. and its so infuriating that these people think Japan is some bastion of acception, so long as you act japanese enough. you will NEVER be treated like "one of them" they will never accept you as "one of them." The arrogance astounds me. They dont even accept people who were born and raised in that country if they arent "pure" japanese, and you think they are going to accept YOU? some White man? have some fucking decorum.
This delussion about japanese acceptance must be something new, since i have memory Japan has always been very race-sensitive, and i've been into anime/manga/otaku stuff for about 30 years now...
The thing is, it's gotten *better* (as in, relative improvement compared to pre-2000), and there's more foreigners in Japan than ever these days, but it's still nowhere near what you'd expect migrating to an anglophone country or even western Europe.
And then there's the need to separate the idea of being accepted as a member of your local community and being accepted as "Japanese". The first one *can* be done. The second is probably a bar that's too high to reach for most (unless you reach major cultural or economic significance- for example, very few people would refer to famous jazz artist Masayoshi Takanaka as Chinese, or inventor of instant ramen Momofuku Ando as Taiwanese).
Yeah, I've been here for a year and I don't know if I'll stay long-term, but if I do I have no illusions about being accepted as "ethnically Japanese", I'd just be happy to be treated as a local wherever I decide to settle down.
Specifically, they want to be the main character in one of those harem ones where an awkward dude is inexplicably pursued and obsessed over by multiple attractive women.
For sure they idealize Japanese culture, often to a completely unrealistic degree. Real life is not a manga, and romantic relationships aren’t like hentai.
It's so funny to me. I have a lot of japanese friends, speak "okayish" japanese in informal settings, have a respectable grade in their national martial art and trained hordes of japanese kids while being friends with their japanese parents. At no point in time - except for two incidents with high ranking, old sensei from some rural place in japan - was my ethnicity even a problem for them, it's not even a topic at all. I am of course still a white dude, but what else could I ask for? Why would I need them to acknowledge me being japanese to just, I don't know, have a good time over there or here where I live?
I don't know how long you've lived there, but after one has lived in a country many years, speaks the language fluently, maybe gains citizenship, they would like to be regarded as one of them. Which doesn't happen in Japan.
Hell, even people born there but with some non-Japanese ancestry may be considered outsiders by some, or discriminated against.
>Why would I need them to acknowledge me being japanese to just, I don't know, have a good time over there or here where I live?
Well the thing is about living there as a foreigner.
Where they are notably xenophobic. Regardless of if you speak the language.
Not how you're treated by other Japanese in your country of origin.
Where I am from/through school, there's a lot of closed knit Asian social groups, dubbed "Asian societies". Where at best you'd be a token white guy in the group.
And a bunch of foreign Asians at my school wouldn't even look at you /say hi back if you said hi to them. Even though you live on the same dorm floor and see them regularly. But that had nothing to do with a specific Asian country. They just generally weren't open like that.
But no generalizations to apply, as there were still plenty more who didn't operate in this way. And who were an absolute joy to have around. Because they definitely know *how to party and have a good time*. And partying with people from all races/ethnicities/background, is a great way to see *were basically all the same*.
>except for two incidents with high ranking, old sensei from some rural place in japan
This line begs for a bit more detail, would you be willing to share?
> For them, better to be a wannabe Japanese than… gasp an American.
It is always amazing to me the lengths that people want to be turbo super pro american or turbo super anti american go to. America is, it's what you make of it, anyone who wants to be american is american. If you want america to be some crazed colonial empire or the benevolent charitable empire both are viable and it has been both.
You do have to realize though that some american ideas are good and some are kinda shit but you have to realize they're american. I cant go to Spain and call people lazy for napping at 1pm or get upset a store isn't open. I cant go to japan and dictate who is and isn't japanese.
> No, this is false. The Japanese ethnic group includes individuals from different ancestral groups and if you look at modern politics the idea that being Japanese is something inherited by blood is a left-wing view that doesn't represent the majority. For a good example of the majority view, prime minister Abe wrote about this exact topic in his book 美しい国へ.
...I'm aware that xenophobic and anti-immigration attitude can exist and has existed in leftist groups, but is OP seriously saying that it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist?
>is OP seriously saying that it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist?
And apparently this progressive pro immigration group is led by
[checks notes]
Shinzo Abe
Man, I haven't that name in a long time. Wonder what happened with that guy? He was really cool. Had some really, really good opinions about WWII-era Japan from what I've heard.
I mean, I guess invading other countries and raping the residents to bear half-Japanese children is [a *kind* of pro-international sentiment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtfToHhv1KU). It's not isolationist at the very least.
Right? That was extremely confusing. I wonder if they saw “Liberal Democratic Party” and just assumed they were left-wing instead of the conservatives that they are.
Well, there are plenty of idiots who will insist that the Nazis were left wing because they had both socialism and German worker’s party in their name (NSDAP). Nevermind that the Nazis purged out their left wing (and other enemies) during the Night of the Long Knives.
I saw a comment earlier in a thread about the judiciary handing down stupidly light sentences to violent offenders and some weirdo called them commies....because communists are so famous for their soft on crime for the average citizen...
People are nuts.
[Germans at the time mocked the NSDAP for being a catch-all to appeal to everyone.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das_Firmenschild_1931.jpg) The NSDAP was a real populist front - and like many populist approaches, they try to ride the line of both anti-elite appeal while championing a strong individualist leader.
It honestly strikes me how little I had considered how self-contradictory that is - but it's not my native tongue of course.
I remember back in 2015/2016-ish getting into an argument with someone, presumably an American, who said that Europe and the EU were dominated by "Far left ideologies" like "the current German government" and watched as they had a malfunction when I told them that the then largest party and coalition leader in Germany was the Christian Democratic Union.
It doesn't help that the news media -- all of it, including the NYTimes -- calls anything Republicans support "conservative" and anything Dems support "liberal," even when that thing was considered the opposite in previous years. Political science and analysis is 100% a joke in the US.
By any objective view, Dems have been center-right since Clinton. Hell, Clinton, Obama, and (somewhat) Biden are Reagan Republicans in just about every way that matters.
In Europe "liberal" means the opposite of what it means in the US. A liberal is someone who supports free market, privatization, small government etc. Similar thing in Japan.
So maybe they're American and they misinterpreted the word.
It’s funny because basically everywhere outside the US* “liberal” is a very centrist stance (pro capitalism is the foundational ideology of liberalism).
*In Canada they’re often viewed as left, and campaign left of centre but typically govern right of centre, except in BC where the provincial Conservative Party is basically non existant and the liberal party filled that void.
In Quebec as well the Provincial Liberals are considered right of center. Heck, infamous Liberal Prime Minister Jean Charest ran for leadership of the Federal Conservative Party.
"Liberal" is a centrist stance in the US, too. It's just that the Overton window has moved so far to the right over the past 40 years that totally centrist ideas are considered left-wing.
OOP couldn't even get the joke, the joke that I somewhat get from context. Well, at least I hope I did. I do not speak Japanese, but I'm pretty sure that commenter was saying that if someone "complimented" his Japanese that way, they were being condescending.
Now I'm doubting myself.
thats exactly the joke.
Its the same as in most of those "BLOWING AWAY THE CHINESE RESTUARANT OWNER BY SPEAKING PERFECT MANDARIN" videos where some "polyglot" orders food in china and the owner goes "Oh, wow, you speak chinese! Wow its so good!" and they tell the viewers that the restaurant owner thinks they are "perfectly fluent like a local"
when in reality, the owner is saying "Oh, wow, your mandarin is like mostly comprehensible. good job, i had very little expectation that you could speak mandarin at all."
I used to work in a Chinese-majority area and while my white arse didn't learn a _lot_ of Cantonese, I did put a LOT of effort into pronunciation of what I learnt- i.e. trying to get the nasal consonants and fricatives (n, m, j) to sound "natural", drilling intonation to death, using informal pronunciations like what I heard from people who visited the shop, etc. (It felt important at the time.)
A few times, I'd respond to a basic greeting or question in Cantonese and get totally blasted by a response delivered way quicker than i could comprehend (possibly preceded by laughter or silence). Tbh I feel kinda bad about not being able follow up with a fluent conversation, as if I disappointed them ...but in hindsight it was a huge compliment, too
I’ve had this happen a ton of times. I am in no way fluent in Arabic or Spanish, but living in areas where those languages were spoken, I got good at my pronunciation. Then a flood of words would come out of the other persons mouth and I would have to apologize lol. But I was happy about it!
Yes from my experience you get that comment when you’re in the beginner phase where you can say sentences and understand some sentences but aren’t really very good yet. It’s sort of a compliment if your bar is very low but doesn’t mean you’re skilled.
Source: if I got that comment when visiting Japan I would still be psyched because it meant I had improved past confused looks for my Japanese.
I've mentioned this story before but I remember following the news in Japan back in the mid to late 2000s, when K-Pop and K-Culture was getting big there
the Right Wing in Japan was going on a ton of anti-Korean protests and saying just really degenerate and awful things about Koreans. And they justified this by claiming that Koreans as a minority group in Japan were taking all the benefits from other minority groups and they just wanted to make sure everyone was treated fairly
it's ridiculous how they thought anyone would be persuaded by that bullshit lol
>taking all the benefits from other minority groups
Slight correction, but groups like Zaitokukai accuse Koreans of stealing benefits from *and replacing the ethnic majority,* not other minorities.
It's mostly Ainu, Okinawans amd Chinese people, though some migrants from African and South American countries have stopped long enough to start actual communities while white immigrants inevitably go home after a few years
no idea lol
but iirc, the right wing in Japan started going after them in the 2010s anyways...proof that again their claims were always bullshit lol
there's a reason why when Abe was assassinated, people of course were polite about the death of an important person and aghast when it happened...but quickly everyone just moved on lol. He was a piece of shit and his dedicated supporters were and still are huge pieces of shit
Yeah, Brazil and Portugal have left their mark on Japanese culture. For example, the name of the card game karuta is taken from the Portuguese "carta". There's also a type of cake (castella) that's popular in Japan.
Aside from the immigrant populations from other places in Asia and around the world, it's the Ainu and Okinawan ethnicities. The majority of the population is Yamato.
People like to crap on KPOP sometimes, but it has probably done more for Japanese-Korean relations than any single other influence in the last 70 years. I've been living in Japan for awhile, and I'm still shocked at how positive views of Korea have become.
Fun fact about Japan's government.
They've been effectively the same extremely right wing government since World War 2, with the ruling party only changing once in the last 80ish years, and it wasn't for a full term.
While my understanding is that there is of course some variance at the province/prefecture level, the ruling party basically plays musical chairs with the roles they, and their proteges have.
> While my understanding is that there is of course some variance at the province/prefecture level, the ruling party basically plays musical chairs with the roles they, and their proteges have.
Wasn't this literally a major plot point in Yakuza 7 *and* Persona 5?
I legitimately know all of this because Yakuza 7 made me do research because I almost refused to believe that it could be that weird.
Those games *undersell* how fucking goofy Japanese politics gets
>it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist?
*Kind of*.
One way the ethnic majority of Japan maintains hold on the country is by denying any minorities exist at all.
Ever heard that Japan is 98% Japanese? Well, that statistic refers to *citizenship.* In reality, Japan keeps no data on the ethnic makeup of the country. Japan is 98% Japanese *citizens* of every race/ethnicity.
But by pretending that all Japanese citizens are a singular, homogeneous ethnicity, the racists/nationalists can justify screeching "Japan for the Japanese!"
When indigenous Japanese people show up to challenge that myth of homogeneity, the racists/nationalists shut them down by saying, "You are just Japanese. We are all indigenous." So the ethnic majority also co-ops anti-colonial narratives for themselves and positions themselves as the real victims.
This also allows the ethnic majority to claim the achievements of minorities, because an ethnic minority citizen is "just Japanese." Case in point, when NHK made a fictionalized story based on the life of naturalized Taiwanese man Momofuku Ando, they J-washed the fictional version of him as just a guy from Osaka.
Tl:dr, yes, the Japanese right wing use a weird kind of faux egalitarianism to claim minority identity for themselves while erasing real minorities. It's not anti-racist, they're simply co-opting anti-racist terminology.
Yeah, and from OP's posts, it really looks like they fell for it hard, lol. They're conflating Japanese citizenship and "ethnicity" throughout their replies, and they couldn't see that even though the ethnic minorities might have shared in the citizenship status, they're still facing suppression and discrimination.
IMO this strange "citizenship = ethnicity" idea is the root of all this drama.
In fairness to OOP, the homogenous Japan myth is widely accepted as simple truth, and it leads to a lot of otherwise well-meaning anti-racist people to support that facile ethnonationalism.
So OOP's post is just plain *weird,* because he understands that race is a social construct (right wingers usually mock this idea), but he also whines about US "PC" terminology.
He strikes me as someone who's not *trying* to be racist but bought the uyoku weeb myths. It's honestly not that rare to see.
I think they're just a Shinzo Abe stan or pretend foreign nationalist speaking in perfect english to whitewash right wing ideologues.
Seriously if you want to understand what I mean go back to the reddit news posts about Shinzo Abe's death and count the comments saying this will just make right wing nationalists stronger or how his murder will just lead to more votes for right wing nationalists. Or the countless # of incorrect predictions and incorrect descriptions of how japanese people felt about it that turned out to be lies or half truths. I'm talking about those people.
Yeah, that really stuck out. Maybe in OG French Revolutionary Nationalism or anti-colonialist nationalism, that's the case. But basically all modern leftism in internationalist in character, and neither of those exceptions apply to Japan.
Without reading any of OOPs post history I get a weird feeling from their replies that the reason they've gone to Japan is because their home country "*is being destroyed by woke-ism*" and Japanese people "*aren't afraid to take pride in their culture*", and maybe even "*Japanese women actually act like women*".
How could this person ever *not* be accepted as a native Japanese, they have so many shared cultural values!!! It's uncanny!!!!
Having lived in Japan for a few years, it’s way better to embrace your foreigner identity than to try to pretend to be a Japanese native and perpetuate the xenophobic culture.
That sub is toxic as hell and the mods suck too
I'm not reading all of that but trying to argue you can change your ethnicity is very silly, the problem would be still being treated poorly because of your ethnicity regardless of your integration
I will say, though. You can 10000% change/adopt another culture. There are several individual instances of this case, the one that comes to mind is Gonzalo Guerrero. Also immigration (Irish and German immigrants essentially adopting and adding to what we know as white american culture). Even race doesn’t really mean you’re entirely barred from adopting another culture. Black Americans are as much a part of the american ethnic group as their white american counterpart. They speak the same language, follow similar religious beliefs, and uphold similar values ~~I will say, though. A lot of this adoption was implemented either through force and necessity~~. I’m just saying you and your descendants can change your culture and essentially become another ethnic group.
It's also pretty damn hard though. I live in Japan now, and although the people I know are very welcoming and I try my hardest to fit in (being mostly fluent in the language), there's also just decades of cultural references I have little to no knowledge of, which gets even more apparent when you get into subculture groups.
There's also the thing of whether that ethnic group would accept you as a part of it. It's a pretty touchy subject if a White American tries to adopt Black American culture, for example.
>That's just part of learning the Japanese culture. You'll get to it. It's funny how the simplest phrase that everyone gets is a cultural mystery for someone that wrote this whataburger of a post.
>I've been living in Japan for nearly a decade at this point and I don't get the joke so clearly not everyone is clued into whatever you're on about. Could you explain the joke?
Ok, how does any foreigner living in Japan not know the nihongo jouzu thing??? Especially one living there for almost a decade? Either a troll or unbelievably stupid.
He has to be lying. This person has never set foot in Japan. He wrote all that shit because he daydreams about being jozu but he has so little actual experience talking to Japanese nationals that he doesn't even know what that is or why it would be insulting to someone this desperate to naturalize.
My bet is they're trying to do the 'explain the joke' thing that is used for sexist or racist comments that are described as jokes. Only issue is that format doesn't apply here so they're just making themselves look ignorant
> Racheru Dorezaru
Wow that is a fascinating story - was expecting to find an anime villain in the google search results and got something from a different world entirely
I feel sad for her
I'll never understand why social outcasts/weebs in the west think they would be accepted in a country *known* for its extreme xenophobia and tradtionalist conservative values, like if you don't fit in at home how are you going to fit in there? The 'Anime-Colored Glasses' really got alot of them.
I found out recently that my (very, very white) german cousin wanted to move to Japan with NO savings because, I quote, they "idolize white men" in Japan. He sold ALL his furniture without even having gotten a visa (and, afaik, he is still in germany to this day...)
>think that it will be different for them because they're white dudes
The *vast* majority of these guys actually expect to and enjoy facing discrimination because they genuinely believe it's the right of the ethnic majority to mistreat minorities.
Every single forum for immigrants in Japan has these guys popping up saying shit like "I enjoy being treated like a gaijin! I even tell my halfie children they'll never be Japanese!"
These guys never actually believe they'll be exempt for being white; they *revel* in experiencing discrimination because they want to justify doing the same thing to minorities back home.
> Every single forum for immigrants in Japan has these guys popping up saying shit like "I enjoy being treated like a gaijin! I even tell my halfie children they'll never be Japanese!"
I do think this is *a small part* of the problem. I'm currently living in a rural-ish community in Japan about 40 miles/60km from Osaka and there's a couple of mixed families living up here and they don't, for lack of a better term, invest themselves in this sort of rhetoric. While their lives aren't perfect, and they and their kids might not be seen as "ethnically Japanese", they *are* accepted as part of the local community, which is a step up from, well, not being that.
Oh, I'm not making any quantitative statements about daily life. Just that in forums for immigrants *on the internet*, the "I like being discriminated against" types are a *consistent* presence.
My experience is *also* that I'm accepted as a regular member of my community, but I and my family have also had bad experiences due to my nationality/race, and *I'm personally* not in the "that's how it should be!" camp.
Anyway, I'm not saying this or that is a problem, just that the white guys who fetishize Japan as an ethnostate absolutely don't expect special treatment for being white. They expect and *enjoy* discrimination because they believe discrimination is good.
I get why people want to dunk on white weebs, and you should, but people get the wrong idea about *why* they fetishize Japan. J-nationalist weebs don't seem to see them as allies, but they certainly enjoy the support of pick-me gaijin.
If you and your friends aren't that, then I'm not making any statement about you. Just that those other guys *are a thing.*
Because so many of them formed their idealized versions of a country that are based on media depictions or stereotypes rather than the actual living experience of those in the country. It’s fetishization in every form basically, only some of them try to act on it, which is basically like trying to turn your life into a cartoon
As a visitor to Japan I can see where you might get the idea too.
I never felt more welcomed anywhere than when I was visiting Japan. I understand there's xenophobia and it becomes more pronounced when you're actually living there, but just visiting as a guest people were so incredibly kind and welcoming to me. When I came home it actually took a minute to adjust and not view Americans around me as very rude and hostile.
I could see being a social outcast in the US, loving anime, visiting Japan and everyone is just so great. Maybe things aren't working for me in the US because I belong in Japan? It's not that there's something wrong with me, I just was born in the wrong place and if I just lived there then I'd be happy and successful because they would appreciate how Japanese I am.
Those are always juicy ones. Fellas, and ladies, don’t tie the knot with someone from a very different culture unless you know both of you can manage the highs and lows together.
Related to this, I once met someone who was kicked out of Japan for marriage fraud. Obviously I didn't know this when I met her, but I later found out—also, it made headlines because she told the immigrantion officers that she was in Japan because she thought it was safer to cosplay there than in Canada.
Japan is honestly kinda lame for pursuing cosplay. There are fewer hobby shops for it compared to North America and they generally frown upon wearing cosplay in public outside of defined con perimeters. Some things are just bigger and better in the ol US of A. Strange she thought it would be safer there than Canada, what was she expecting safety wise?
Well the worst part is, in actuality she was a kyaba who overstayed her student visa and needed to marry a Japanese dude to stay in Japan. I think the cosplay thing was just a downplaying of what she actually did. She was in Japan to be a gyaru.
She is banned banned. They deported her. And the dude who she paid to marry got sentenced to 7 years hard labour in classic Japanese fashion.
And the sad part of this story that also ties it back to the post is the fact that she's 3rd gen Chinese-Canadian; she didn't understand why her life in Japan was a lot harder and less opportunities than her white gaijin gyaru friends. She just thought that she could move to Japan and be Japanese because all Asians are the same...
The person saying race and racial categories are socially contingent and not actually biologically based is just...right about that part though. "Race isn't real" is a very wrong thing that people say when they're too dumb to say "race is socially constructed" but that's what they're getting at, that's how it works, that's why racial categories and hierarchies change over time and across different places. That's why a lot of westerners will place Japanese and Korean people in the category "Asian" (or "East Asian" if they're either slightly less reductive or British) but in Japan Koreans are a distinct group which are racialised and discriminated against on that basis.
Yeah. Curiously people seem less likely to get confused about other social constructs being “real”, like language, currency, borders and culture. How can something with real impacts on people not be “real”?
Edit for anyone looking to argue semantics: “real” doesn’t mean scientific or biologically relevant.
People mistake the stories we use to naturalise these social constructs being bullshit with the things themselves as being bullshit, and so imagine themselves not being subject to these things. Borders are made real by border guards, currency is made real by cops enforcing legal rulings when you get taken to court, race is made real not by anything on anyone's blood or skin but by banks looking at their names and patients' nationalities and possibly some cultural indicators and mayyybe some phenotypical detail (but Japanese Korean racism is a great example of even this not mattering) and denying them loans.
I do like the idea of people who "really know Japanese culture" from having read 10,000+ hours of pornographic text adventure games in the original 日本語 reading a ton of academic work by Kanchan Chandra, Derrick Bell and the Fields sisters and really trying to go deep on constructivist theories of race before eventually confronting that, yes, the problem is that the Japanese don't really want them the way they wish they did.
Heck, if you go deep enough, you start to realize that basically everything we talk about is a social construct. Even how we classify water is a social construct. The matter that makes up water is real. But we didn't have to make a separate category for 2 hydrogens 1 oxygen combined together. We chose to make it because it is useful for us.
Yeah, something really fascinating about studying anthropology is that your conception of reality itself starts to unravel until you hit a point where you realize that it doesn't actually matter if culture is made up or not, it's still real.
But it makes it REALLY hard to explain basic anthropological concepts to people, because they get stuck on the "made up" part and demand that all cultural norms be universally generalized.
They also gatekeep people of Asian descent as well. The amount of times some Koreaboo tried to tell me I wasn’t really Korean because I don’t like X stereotypical Korean thing is wayyyy too high.
I'm *actually* Japanese. The amount of weebs both online and in-person who have tried to claim I'm "not really Japanese" despite literally being a Japanese citizen is insane.
This very sub was once brigaded by r/ japancirclejerk because a Japanese-American girl posted here and they decided she wasn't Japanese enough.
Horrifyingly, the people on this sub upvoted the circlejerkers, not the girl they were harassing.
Two fun facts. If the definition of Korean is this
>Korean = someone who identifies as being Korean
Then you can make the definition infinitely long by substitution.
>Korean = someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being Korean
forever
>Korean = someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being Korean
Second fun fact, words that have no meaning, have no meaning. You just made a definition for a word that offers me no information. It's telling me someone identifies as something... but what is that something? Oh the thing itself, which I still don't know the definition of.
------------
Use these fun facts to kill skynet in the future.
the japanese culture is a very gatekeep culture. all the way from broader society ("no foreigners") to local communities ("referral only clubs - we humbly have to decline the entry of those we do not know"). even the language itself is stratified depending on whether the person you are speaking to belongs to your inside group or not, and whether that person belongs to your inside group at that point in time that you are speaking to him depends on the situation.
you can imagine, as a foreigner, never having grown up in the culture, never having spent two decades of your life watching your parents, your teachers, your aunts and uncles, everyone around you, play the game, you have to learn the unwritten rules from scratch. even the japanese cannot fully articulate the complexity of the rules, it is second nature to them, learnt from mimicry, not from memory. now that you are in the in-group, why make it easy for others to join? you struggled and fought and you earned it. why shouldn't the others suffer like you did for it?
How does someone watch anime and get the idea that Japan is some utopia? Power fantasies aren't dreamt up by people who feel fully fulfilled in life. *Especially* when those power fantasies involve dying and being reborn somewhere else (isekai).
No, they were openly brigading other subs and harassing people. The doxxing incident happened after they'd already been put on probation by admins and had their mods purged.
The whole "jcj got banned for doxxing a pedophile" is just cope. Even to this day you can tell an old jcj regular because they completely lack any self-awareness whatsoever.
I do agree that for some people, there is an unhealthy amount of romanticization of what particular experiences in Japan are like.
Ages ago, I subbed to a subreddit about a particular form of entertainment in Japan because I was on vacation there, and planned to go to a couple of shows. When I posted on the subreddit asking whether it was worth going to a show at a smaller venue as well as one at a big auditorium, someone responded that asking the question meant I didn’t know enough about the entertainment form to appreciate it and didn’t deserve to go.
Then when I later posted about how one performer at one show got a more subdued reaction then others, the same poster made a bunch of personal attacks saying my experience was wrong(?), and basically told me I was wasting the once in a lifetime honor of … going to a show in Japan, and how that made me a lifelong loser.
When I ended up ignoring the dude after initially foolishly responding, for days after, I received a bunch of almost identically worded posts from “different” posters all making the same claims I was wasting the incredible honor of being in Japan for these shows.
While Japan is an awesome country in many respects, I think for some people, being in Japan represents some sort of unattainable fantasyland where all their personal shortcomings will magically disappear.
Rather disturbingly, I did notice that one of the accounts the dude was using had made multiple posts claiming to be a teenage boy who wanted to make friends in Japan, while the other accounts made it clear the dude was an adult male in the US. I reported the account and it later came up as deleted, but it is a little worrying why exactly the dude was imagining Japan would be such a magical experience for him.
You also get a lot of atheist idolizing it as an atheist utopia. However the vast majority of Japanese people do have a religion but they conceptualize religion a bit different than the west typically does. Since they don’t have much of an *organized* religion, they often answer surgery’s that they are ‘unaffiliated’.
I think there was a quote that said like "You're Shinto when you're a child, a Christian when you get married, and a Buddhist when you die."
Japanese are very flexible about religion.
> My friends don't make statements like "you're not Japanese because you're [skin color]", redditors do.
your select group of friends not being overtly racist to you in particular totally does mean that racism doesn't exist.
and just think, if some very progressive Japanese person ever accuses those friends of being racist, they can point out that they've got one white friend and that fully proves that they're absolutely not racist at all.
like in all seriousness though, obviously there are people who accept foreigners, and people who think foreigners are weird and fascinating. and obviously those people gravitate towards foreigners more. it just doesn't really prove anything at all any the broader context of how people interpret cultural belonging.
and the oop is crazy to even think that being accepted into Japanese culture makes them Japanese ethnically. that's not how it works anywhere, no matter how insular/accepting/open or xenophobic/xenophilic.
Just reading through the first few comments in the post reminds me of the recent Miss Japan controversy. I’m not reading through all that, I don’t have the strength for it.
> wrote this whataburger of a post
I saw this and couldn’t continue reading the rest of the post. Is this a phrase now? Has it always been? Is this a Mandela effect?
(You want to purchase food from Whataburger) Yeah, I've totally heard people use it before! Maybe it's a regional thing? (You want to purchase food from Whataburger)
This kind of thing goes back to the message board days of the internet. Those neckbeard weebs who'd proclaim expertise in Japanese culture. Nobody could say how wrong they were because nobody knew better either.
I still don't know how true the stuff they said was.
From time to time Asian country subs always argue about nationality vs ethnicity. It comes from the dissatisfaction of being treated as a foreigner even if they were fluent or lived there a long time. They have no chance when even halfs or non-Japanese people born in Japan don't always. It's a really Western perspective bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc. I don't think it's completely just weebs wanting to "change" their ethnicity, although you might come across those people.
Also r/Japanlife in general needs JCJ, their antithesis to police them a little or they get too wild. Too bad it got permabanned because they doxxed an ALT. Doxxed as in they shared his tumblr, not his face or address.
Some places will never accept you as a local. My grandma moved to Florida as a child, from Massachusetts. Even when she died, she was still not accepted as a local. Not excluded, but never one of them good ole girls.
I suppose it will really can happen in any small towns that don't get an influx of new people moving in over the decades. Someone who hasn't lived the shared history.
Japan has it even tho they are much bigger cause they have intentionally put in a lot of effort to block themselves off from the outside world and continue to differentiate themselves from those they consider 'others'.
>in any small towns that don't get an influx of new people moving in over the decades. Someone who hasn't lived the shared history
Except that this also happens to Asian diaspora who live in major Western cities that are constantly getting new immigrants and transplants, not just the ones who live/grow up in the boonies.
The town was regularly getting new people. My grandfather also moved to the area as a child, but his family was from southern Georgia. Grandma was just too much of a Yankee. This was in East-central florida on the Atlantic coast
Can't speak for the other countries but UK do not have that attitude at all. It's not as strong as Japan's but people who seem foreign absolutely get treated differently regardless of whether they were actually born here.
>It's a really Western perspective bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc.
Lol. In theory, sure. In practice, I can't tell you how many times I've been asked where I'm from in the country of my birth, or if I can speak English, or sometimes being told to go back to my own country.
The ideal of Western society is very far from its reality, the reality is much closer to Japan for people like me than most people know.
I think they meant that Asians born in western countries are considered a person of the western country by the Asian countries, not within the western countries.
Which is heartbreaking in its own way. I’ve met several Asian Americans who came “home” to find a place to belong to and I’ve had to break it to them that no, as far as we’re concerned you’re just… American.
> bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc
To whomst? Asian diaspora in these places regularly get told by people in their birth countries to “go back to where you came from”.
Also what is with this nostalgia for the CJ subreddit? It was a cringe cesspit for 4chan style expat “humor” where people were being “ironically” racist about their Japanese wives and shitting on Japanese culture.
A bit off topic but I’m so tired of people saying “race isn’t real” to justify their naive view of a post racism society. It’s a socio-legal construct, but so are money, rights and taxes, yet people rarely get confused about those not being “real”.
Edit for anyone looking to argue semantics: “real” doesn’t mean scientific or biologically relevant.
>Too bad it got permabanned because they doxxed an ALT
Not true. They were banned for habitually brigading other subs and harassing people. Admins had put them on probation for months before the doxxing incident.
The whole "jcj got banned for doxxing a pedophile" thing is just jcj cope because they have literally zero self-awareness. Nobody needs them. They contributed less than nothing to this site.
The UK definitely does not accept non white (or even Eastern European) people as British no matter what. At best a Scottish person will act accepting to dunk on the English or a left wing person will do the same to dunk on the right, but the society around them remains exclusionary. Can't speak for any of the other countries in question but it seems like some parts of America and Canada are much better about that at least
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620123510/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dk9mpv/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dk9mpv/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. r/japanlife - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620123954/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. r/japanresidents - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124034/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanresidents) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanresidents "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. one post - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124155/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/you_will_never_be_japanese_you_will_never_be/?sort=top) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/you_will_never_be_japanese_you_will_never_be/?sort=top "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. I say this with all due respect having read your entire post: I don't think I've ever seen a longer post that says less than yours does. This entire post could be condensed to an brief paragraph that the key to integration into Japan is learning the culture and language to a high degree of proficiency. Shit, I just said as much as your essay in a single sentence. Anyway, you forget that the majority of people who care so much about this issue care because they hate themselves and internalize their self-hate as a hatred of their origins and desperately want to be ethnically Japanese which IS impossible. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124256/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eukk6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eukk6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. Why do you or they care? Seriously, 100% serious question, why do you care what they say and why do they care enough to say anything in the first place? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124316/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etimj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etimj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. Sounds like someone is mad because he was told wow 日本語上手ですね (means "your Japanese is good", used in praise of ostensible novices) - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124417/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ev5jr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ev5jr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. I don't really get what you're trying to say, but you still won't be "fully" Japanese from the native Japanese's perspective. I agree with the things you've said about language and culture, but you just won't. I'm a Japanese-southeast asian mix, but from a "full" native Japanese person's perspective, I am not a legitimate Japanese. It is part of the identity of being Japanese to have a ウチとソトmindset. It's deeply rooted in the history of Japan. That's why the term "hafu" exists. It's a term to segregate and marginalize biracial children. Look how we are forced to select a nationality at 20. Have you seen how much debate Karolina Shiino sparked as a naturalized Japanese? You are accepted, but only to a certain extent. You are Japanese, but only to a certain extent. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124819/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exbh7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exbh7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. Do you not have friends to shoot the shit with and have these kinds of meandering navel-gazing conversations about in person over drinks or - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125141/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exldx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exldx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. To the point about people being treated by country there is that comedy set by Evans Musoka, who is Kenyan, on how he tries to make the Japanese think he is African American since he gets treated better that way. The rest of this post makes little sense and it gets topped off with the statement that “race isn’t real” , and that’s hilarious on a couple levels including OP comments that “the USA is a race based society.” - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125242/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f1dem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f1dem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. Alright lads, let's move on, OP pretty much admitted they're just trolling here for the 3 karma points. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125423/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f0rqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f0rqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
12. This person even went through the trouble of making a throw away to post this. I wish I had more free time. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125624/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etzdm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etzdm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
13. r/japanlife - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125946/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
14. "It's a bit early for drinking" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620010106/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eu866/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eu866/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
15. "ChatGPT refused to summarize it and told me to instead write a snarky comment" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620010126/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ezvbw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ezvbw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
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"the idea of being Japanese having to do with ancestry is a left-wing idea"
Tell me that you know absolutely nothing about Asian culture without telling me that you know absolutely nothing about Asian culture.
The fact that everyone here is posting in English makes the irony of this even deeper. Like seriously - if you want to add legitimacy to your point about being culturally Japanese or whatever - then post in fully fluent Japanese.
At least then you would have other Japanese people and fully fluent learners discussing the nuances of identity in response.
I don't quite get forums about a place, populated by people from that place / trying to live in that place, using English as the predominant language rather than the language of that place.
I mean, it's a subreddit for people for foreigners living in Japan. Many are new to the country and don't speak Japanese.
It'd be good practice, sure, but the point is to have a place to relax and discuss things, not to be on the language grind.
...Not to suggest they ever relax on that sub lol
I just watched a video of a woman who was born and raised in Japan and never left Japan, but her parents are both British. She isn't considered "japanese" by the Japanese people.
And if she has a kid, the British won't let her pass down her citizenship either because she wasn't born in Britain so if she has a kid with another foreigner in Japan it could lead to the kid not having *any* citizenship.
I have no idea why some Americans want so desperately to be accepted by Japanese people as their own, or even Asians in general. Well, I do have an hunch. I believe there is a stage past weaboo that people raised in conservative (or christian perhaps since its a majority in the USA) settings go into--which is licking at a scoop of Japanese nationalism due to a nebulous cluster of ideals they develop if you live in this nation and they aren't nipped by parents or your community.
This is because perhaps, they identify with conservative american nationalism or it's ideals. Maybe Japanese culture feels like an aesthetic buffet to them. At best, they get into petty fights with people over culture over who will be acceptable. At worst they start spewing anti semitism and other harmful extremism unrelated to being a simple Japanese resident.
Just be respectful, being clocked as safe to be around probably means more in life than trying to wave a ethnic status or region over your head. Lately, people don't enjoy assholes 24/7 and it's okay for friends to just be different? Sheesh.
The lengths weaboos go to convince themselves that they are just misunderstood japanese dudes born into the wrong body is terrifying. This makes me really sad to be honest
For them, better to be a wannabe Japanese than… *gasp* an American.
I say this, as a korean person, who has family who migrated to Japan during imperialism era. My family will ALWAYS be considered zainichi. They will never not be considered zainichi. My cousin, who is a japanese citizen, born and raised in japan, is not "technically" zainichi is still considered zainichi. she has a Japanese name, a japanese father, a japanese husband, lives a japanese life, but as SOON as other Japanese people learn she's actually half korean, her daughter MIGHT be spared the discrimination so long as no one learns that her mom is a hafu. She might not legally be considered zainichi, but she will always be treated as zainichi. and its so infuriating that these people think Japan is some bastion of acception, so long as you act japanese enough. you will NEVER be treated like "one of them" they will never accept you as "one of them." The arrogance astounds me. They dont even accept people who were born and raised in that country if they arent "pure" japanese, and you think they are going to accept YOU? some White man? have some fucking decorum.
This delussion about japanese acceptance must be something new, since i have memory Japan has always been very race-sensitive, and i've been into anime/manga/otaku stuff for about 30 years now...
The thing is, it's gotten *better* (as in, relative improvement compared to pre-2000), and there's more foreigners in Japan than ever these days, but it's still nowhere near what you'd expect migrating to an anglophone country or even western Europe. And then there's the need to separate the idea of being accepted as a member of your local community and being accepted as "Japanese". The first one *can* be done. The second is probably a bar that's too high to reach for most (unless you reach major cultural or economic significance- for example, very few people would refer to famous jazz artist Masayoshi Takanaka as Chinese, or inventor of instant ramen Momofuku Ando as Taiwanese).
Yeah, i won't even get into being accepted as Japanese, much less “ethnically Japanese"
Yeah, I've been here for a year and I don't know if I'll stay long-term, but if I do I have no illusions about being accepted as "ethnically Japanese", I'd just be happy to be treated as a local wherever I decide to settle down.
I think they want to be anime characters.
You will never be a real Otaku
Nani?!
Americans in anime... that's people like Guile, or Lt Surge...
[Bandit Keith](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBbodtKylqs) he's from america.
I don't think America even exists in the Pokemon world. Perhaps Lt. Surge was isekaied instead.
naw it does, pokemon black&white exist in pokemon new york- not lieutenant surge tho, he's a tru Japanese heroic expat like OOP
Lt. Surge's original title was "The Lighting American" Gen 1 was a lot different.
Specifically, they want to be the main character in one of those harem ones where an awkward dude is inexplicably pursued and obsessed over by multiple attractive women.
Becoming an anime character is the first step to fucking an anime character
For sure they idealize Japanese culture, often to a completely unrealistic degree. Real life is not a manga, and romantic relationships aren’t like hentai.
It's so funny to me. I have a lot of japanese friends, speak "okayish" japanese in informal settings, have a respectable grade in their national martial art and trained hordes of japanese kids while being friends with their japanese parents. At no point in time - except for two incidents with high ranking, old sensei from some rural place in japan - was my ethnicity even a problem for them, it's not even a topic at all. I am of course still a white dude, but what else could I ask for? Why would I need them to acknowledge me being japanese to just, I don't know, have a good time over there or here where I live?
I don't know how long you've lived there, but after one has lived in a country many years, speaks the language fluently, maybe gains citizenship, they would like to be regarded as one of them. Which doesn't happen in Japan. Hell, even people born there but with some non-Japanese ancestry may be considered outsiders by some, or discriminated against.
>Why would I need them to acknowledge me being japanese to just, I don't know, have a good time over there or here where I live? Well the thing is about living there as a foreigner. Where they are notably xenophobic. Regardless of if you speak the language. Not how you're treated by other Japanese in your country of origin. Where I am from/through school, there's a lot of closed knit Asian social groups, dubbed "Asian societies". Where at best you'd be a token white guy in the group. And a bunch of foreign Asians at my school wouldn't even look at you /say hi back if you said hi to them. Even though you live on the same dorm floor and see them regularly. But that had nothing to do with a specific Asian country. They just generally weren't open like that. But no generalizations to apply, as there were still plenty more who didn't operate in this way. And who were an absolute joy to have around. Because they definitely know *how to party and have a good time*. And partying with people from all races/ethnicities/background, is a great way to see *were basically all the same*.
>except for two incidents with high ranking, old sensei from some rural place in japan This line begs for a bit more detail, would you be willing to share?
> For them, better to be a wannabe Japanese than… gasp an American. It is always amazing to me the lengths that people want to be turbo super pro american or turbo super anti american go to. America is, it's what you make of it, anyone who wants to be american is american. If you want america to be some crazed colonial empire or the benevolent charitable empire both are viable and it has been both. You do have to realize though that some american ideas are good and some are kinda shit but you have to realize they're american. I cant go to Spain and call people lazy for napping at 1pm or get upset a store isn't open. I cant go to japan and dictate who is and isn't japanese.
And yet they will still be transphobic and casually throw around slurs for trans women.
> No, this is false. The Japanese ethnic group includes individuals from different ancestral groups and if you look at modern politics the idea that being Japanese is something inherited by blood is a left-wing view that doesn't represent the majority. For a good example of the majority view, prime minister Abe wrote about this exact topic in his book 美しい国へ. ...I'm aware that xenophobic and anti-immigration attitude can exist and has existed in leftist groups, but is OP seriously saying that it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist?
>is OP seriously saying that it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist? And apparently this progressive pro immigration group is led by [checks notes] Shinzo Abe
Man, I haven't that name in a long time. Wonder what happened with that guy? He was really cool. Had some really, really good opinions about WWII-era Japan from what I've heard.
Shinzo Abe? He suffered a tragic accident with experimental technology. But at least his death taught us a great deal.
Experimental technology. Wow, truly an amazing man. Even his final moments were spent improving mankind.
I mean, I guess invading other countries and raping the residents to bear half-Japanese children is [a *kind* of pro-international sentiment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtfToHhv1KU). It's not isolationist at the very least.
Well, probably not anymore
Right? That was extremely confusing. I wonder if they saw “Liberal Democratic Party” and just assumed they were left-wing instead of the conservatives that they are.
Well, there are plenty of idiots who will insist that the Nazis were left wing because they had both socialism and German worker’s party in their name (NSDAP). Nevermind that the Nazis purged out their left wing (and other enemies) during the Night of the Long Knives.
It’s almost like groups can and do name themselves to project a certain image regardless of their philosophies.
Wdym the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is definitely a fair democracy!!!
Internet dude finds about "lying"
I saw a comment earlier in a thread about the judiciary handing down stupidly light sentences to violent offenders and some weirdo called them commies....because communists are so famous for their soft on crime for the average citizen... People are nuts.
[Germans at the time mocked the NSDAP for being a catch-all to appeal to everyone.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das_Firmenschild_1931.jpg) The NSDAP was a real populist front - and like many populist approaches, they try to ride the line of both anti-elite appeal while championing a strong individualist leader. It honestly strikes me how little I had considered how self-contradictory that is - but it's not my native tongue of course.
I remember back in 2015/2016-ish getting into an argument with someone, presumably an American, who said that Europe and the EU were dominated by "Far left ideologies" like "the current German government" and watched as they had a malfunction when I told them that the then largest party and coalition leader in Germany was the Christian Democratic Union.
The further right you are the more left everyone else looks..
They think moderate liberalism is "far left."
It doesn't help that the news media -- all of it, including the NYTimes -- calls anything Republicans support "conservative" and anything Dems support "liberal," even when that thing was considered the opposite in previous years. Political science and analysis is 100% a joke in the US. By any objective view, Dems have been center-right since Clinton. Hell, Clinton, Obama, and (somewhat) Biden are Reagan Republicans in just about every way that matters.
In terms of economics yeah, but usually when the term "liberal " and "conservative" is used, it in reference to social views.
Sorta like how the US Republican Party is not actually for representative government, but instead pushes for a theocratic plutocracy.
In Europe "liberal" means the opposite of what it means in the US. A liberal is someone who supports free market, privatization, small government etc. Similar thing in Japan. So maybe they're American and they misinterpreted the word.
It’s funny because basically everywhere outside the US* “liberal” is a very centrist stance (pro capitalism is the foundational ideology of liberalism). *In Canada they’re often viewed as left, and campaign left of centre but typically govern right of centre, except in BC where the provincial Conservative Party is basically non existant and the liberal party filled that void.
In Quebec as well the Provincial Liberals are considered right of center. Heck, infamous Liberal Prime Minister Jean Charest ran for leadership of the Federal Conservative Party.
"Liberal" is a centrist stance in the US, too. It's just that the Overton window has moved so far to the right over the past 40 years that totally centrist ideas are considered left-wing.
OOP couldn't even get the joke, the joke that I somewhat get from context. Well, at least I hope I did. I do not speak Japanese, but I'm pretty sure that commenter was saying that if someone "complimented" his Japanese that way, they were being condescending. Now I'm doubting myself.
thats exactly the joke. Its the same as in most of those "BLOWING AWAY THE CHINESE RESTUARANT OWNER BY SPEAKING PERFECT MANDARIN" videos where some "polyglot" orders food in china and the owner goes "Oh, wow, you speak chinese! Wow its so good!" and they tell the viewers that the restaurant owner thinks they are "perfectly fluent like a local" when in reality, the owner is saying "Oh, wow, your mandarin is like mostly comprehensible. good job, i had very little expectation that you could speak mandarin at all."
Damn, why you putting Xiaoma on blast like that?
I used to work in a Chinese-majority area and while my white arse didn't learn a _lot_ of Cantonese, I did put a LOT of effort into pronunciation of what I learnt- i.e. trying to get the nasal consonants and fricatives (n, m, j) to sound "natural", drilling intonation to death, using informal pronunciations like what I heard from people who visited the shop, etc. (It felt important at the time.) A few times, I'd respond to a basic greeting or question in Cantonese and get totally blasted by a response delivered way quicker than i could comprehend (possibly preceded by laughter or silence). Tbh I feel kinda bad about not being able follow up with a fluent conversation, as if I disappointed them ...but in hindsight it was a huge compliment, too
I’ve had this happen a ton of times. I am in no way fluent in Arabic or Spanish, but living in areas where those languages were spoken, I got good at my pronunciation. Then a flood of words would come out of the other persons mouth and I would have to apologize lol. But I was happy about it!
thats FAR more of a compliment than "Oh wow, your chinese is so good!" lmao.
Yes from my experience you get that comment when you’re in the beginner phase where you can say sentences and understand some sentences but aren’t really very good yet. It’s sort of a compliment if your bar is very low but doesn’t mean you’re skilled. Source: if I got that comment when visiting Japan I would still be psyched because it meant I had improved past confused looks for my Japanese.
Pretty much, yeah. From what I know, it's common for Japanese people to congratulate a foreigner speaking even the most basic Japanese.
I've mentioned this story before but I remember following the news in Japan back in the mid to late 2000s, when K-Pop and K-Culture was getting big there the Right Wing in Japan was going on a ton of anti-Korean protests and saying just really degenerate and awful things about Koreans. And they justified this by claiming that Koreans as a minority group in Japan were taking all the benefits from other minority groups and they just wanted to make sure everyone was treated fairly it's ridiculous how they thought anyone would be persuaded by that bullshit lol
>taking all the benefits from other minority groups Slight correction, but groups like Zaitokukai accuse Koreans of stealing benefits from *and replacing the ethnic majority,* not other minorities.
What other minority groups are there in Japan besides Koreans?
It's mostly Ainu, Okinawans amd Chinese people, though some migrants from African and South American countries have stopped long enough to start actual communities while white immigrants inevitably go home after a few years
There's also a growing Vietnamese and Thai community as southeast Asians are actively being recruited to Japan to work.
no idea lol but iirc, the right wing in Japan started going after them in the 2010s anyways...proof that again their claims were always bullshit lol there's a reason why when Abe was assassinated, people of course were polite about the death of an important person and aghast when it happened...but quickly everyone just moved on lol. He was a piece of shit and his dedicated supporters were and still are huge pieces of shit
I'm pretty sure he was assassinated over his ties to the Moonies
Chinese, Filipino, Brazilian, I think, are decently large minority groups.
So *that's* why Oda said Luffy would be Brazilian irl...
Yeah, Brazil and Portugal have left their mark on Japanese culture. For example, the name of the card game karuta is taken from the Portuguese "carta". There's also a type of cake (castella) that's popular in Japan.
Brazil is home to the largest Japanese diaspora
If only pasteis de nata also made it across. You can find Hong Kong and Macau style egg tarts in the right places, but not the originals, it seems.
Aside from the immigrant populations from other places in Asia and around the world, it's the Ainu and Okinawan ethnicities. The majority of the population is Yamato.
People like to crap on KPOP sometimes, but it has probably done more for Japanese-Korean relations than any single other influence in the last 70 years. I've been living in Japan for awhile, and I'm still shocked at how positive views of Korea have become.
Fun fact about Japan's government. They've been effectively the same extremely right wing government since World War 2, with the ruling party only changing once in the last 80ish years, and it wasn't for a full term. While my understanding is that there is of course some variance at the province/prefecture level, the ruling party basically plays musical chairs with the roles they, and their proteges have.
> While my understanding is that there is of course some variance at the province/prefecture level, the ruling party basically plays musical chairs with the roles they, and their proteges have. Wasn't this literally a major plot point in Yakuza 7 *and* Persona 5?
I legitimately know all of this because Yakuza 7 made me do research because I almost refused to believe that it could be that weird. Those games *undersell* how fucking goofy Japanese politics gets
>it's actually the Japanese nationalist right-wing that is pro-immigration and anti-racist? *Kind of*. One way the ethnic majority of Japan maintains hold on the country is by denying any minorities exist at all. Ever heard that Japan is 98% Japanese? Well, that statistic refers to *citizenship.* In reality, Japan keeps no data on the ethnic makeup of the country. Japan is 98% Japanese *citizens* of every race/ethnicity. But by pretending that all Japanese citizens are a singular, homogeneous ethnicity, the racists/nationalists can justify screeching "Japan for the Japanese!" When indigenous Japanese people show up to challenge that myth of homogeneity, the racists/nationalists shut them down by saying, "You are just Japanese. We are all indigenous." So the ethnic majority also co-ops anti-colonial narratives for themselves and positions themselves as the real victims. This also allows the ethnic majority to claim the achievements of minorities, because an ethnic minority citizen is "just Japanese." Case in point, when NHK made a fictionalized story based on the life of naturalized Taiwanese man Momofuku Ando, they J-washed the fictional version of him as just a guy from Osaka. Tl:dr, yes, the Japanese right wing use a weird kind of faux egalitarianism to claim minority identity for themselves while erasing real minorities. It's not anti-racist, they're simply co-opting anti-racist terminology.
Yeah, and from OP's posts, it really looks like they fell for it hard, lol. They're conflating Japanese citizenship and "ethnicity" throughout their replies, and they couldn't see that even though the ethnic minorities might have shared in the citizenship status, they're still facing suppression and discrimination. IMO this strange "citizenship = ethnicity" idea is the root of all this drama.
In fairness to OOP, the homogenous Japan myth is widely accepted as simple truth, and it leads to a lot of otherwise well-meaning anti-racist people to support that facile ethnonationalism. So OOP's post is just plain *weird,* because he understands that race is a social construct (right wingers usually mock this idea), but he also whines about US "PC" terminology. He strikes me as someone who's not *trying* to be racist but bought the uyoku weeb myths. It's honestly not that rare to see.
That confused me too. Surely they meant it’s a right wing view?
I think they're just a Shinzo Abe stan or pretend foreign nationalist speaking in perfect english to whitewash right wing ideologues. Seriously if you want to understand what I mean go back to the reddit news posts about Shinzo Abe's death and count the comments saying this will just make right wing nationalists stronger or how his murder will just lead to more votes for right wing nationalists. Or the countless # of incorrect predictions and incorrect descriptions of how japanese people felt about it that turned out to be lies or half truths. I'm talking about those people.
Yeah, that really stuck out. Maybe in OG French Revolutionary Nationalism or anti-colonialist nationalism, that's the case. But basically all modern leftism in internationalist in character, and neither of those exceptions apply to Japan.
Right? Known xenophobe Abe? What even?
Remember, to these people everything they disagree with is Leftist.
Without reading any of OOPs post history I get a weird feeling from their replies that the reason they've gone to Japan is because their home country "*is being destroyed by woke-ism*" and Japanese people "*aren't afraid to take pride in their culture*", and maybe even "*Japanese women actually act like women*". How could this person ever *not* be accepted as a native Japanese, they have so many shared cultural values!!! It's uncanny!!!!
Having lived in Japan for a few years, it’s way better to embrace your foreigner identity than to try to pretend to be a Japanese native and perpetuate the xenophobic culture. That sub is toxic as hell and the mods suck too
I'm not reading all of that but trying to argue you can change your ethnicity is very silly, the problem would be still being treated poorly because of your ethnicity regardless of your integration
Japanophiles can be a chatty bunch…
Anime rotted some peoples brains.
I will say, though. You can 10000% change/adopt another culture. There are several individual instances of this case, the one that comes to mind is Gonzalo Guerrero. Also immigration (Irish and German immigrants essentially adopting and adding to what we know as white american culture). Even race doesn’t really mean you’re entirely barred from adopting another culture. Black Americans are as much a part of the american ethnic group as their white american counterpart. They speak the same language, follow similar religious beliefs, and uphold similar values ~~I will say, though. A lot of this adoption was implemented either through force and necessity~~. I’m just saying you and your descendants can change your culture and essentially become another ethnic group.
It's also pretty damn hard though. I live in Japan now, and although the people I know are very welcoming and I try my hardest to fit in (being mostly fluent in the language), there's also just decades of cultural references I have little to no knowledge of, which gets even more apparent when you get into subculture groups. There's also the thing of whether that ethnic group would accept you as a part of it. It's a pretty touchy subject if a White American tries to adopt Black American culture, for example.
>That's just part of learning the Japanese culture. You'll get to it. It's funny how the simplest phrase that everyone gets is a cultural mystery for someone that wrote this whataburger of a post. >I've been living in Japan for nearly a decade at this point and I don't get the joke so clearly not everyone is clued into whatever you're on about. Could you explain the joke? Ok, how does any foreigner living in Japan not know the nihongo jouzu thing??? Especially one living there for almost a decade? Either a troll or unbelievably stupid.
He has to be lying. This person has never set foot in Japan. He wrote all that shit because he daydreams about being jozu but he has so little actual experience talking to Japanese nationals that he doesn't even know what that is or why it would be insulting to someone this desperate to naturalize.
My bet is they're trying to do the 'explain the joke' thing that is used for sexist or racist comments that are described as jokes. Only issue is that format doesn't apply here so they're just making themselves look ignorant
Racheru Dorezaru ladies and gentleman!
Can this be a flair? It's *really* good flair material.
It's valid! >Racheru Dorezaru, ladies and gentlemen!
Shouldn’t it be Reicheru?
Well, I'm an expert at Japanese transliteration, just like that guy, trust me. Lol.
If it is actually Reicheru, I feel like Racheru makes it funnier and more fitting.
Jesus Christ, this comment is genius
> Racheru Dorezaru Wow that is a fascinating story - was expecting to find an anime villain in the google search results and got something from a different world entirely I feel sad for her
Holy shit that’s funny
scream
I'll never understand why social outcasts/weebs in the west think they would be accepted in a country *known* for its extreme xenophobia and tradtionalist conservative values, like if you don't fit in at home how are you going to fit in there? The 'Anime-Colored Glasses' really got alot of them.
a lot of them *like* the xenophobia and conservatism, and think that it will be different for them because they're white dudes
Yea if Japan was a multi-ethnic paradise these guys wouldn’t want to go live there lol.
Paradise it isn't, but it's definitely more multi-ethnic these days.
I found out recently that my (very, very white) german cousin wanted to move to Japan with NO savings because, I quote, they "idolize white men" in Japan. He sold ALL his furniture without even having gotten a visa (and, afaik, he is still in germany to this day...)
>think that it will be different for them because they're white dudes The *vast* majority of these guys actually expect to and enjoy facing discrimination because they genuinely believe it's the right of the ethnic majority to mistreat minorities. Every single forum for immigrants in Japan has these guys popping up saying shit like "I enjoy being treated like a gaijin! I even tell my halfie children they'll never be Japanese!" These guys never actually believe they'll be exempt for being white; they *revel* in experiencing discrimination because they want to justify doing the same thing to minorities back home.
> Every single forum for immigrants in Japan has these guys popping up saying shit like "I enjoy being treated like a gaijin! I even tell my halfie children they'll never be Japanese!" I do think this is *a small part* of the problem. I'm currently living in a rural-ish community in Japan about 40 miles/60km from Osaka and there's a couple of mixed families living up here and they don't, for lack of a better term, invest themselves in this sort of rhetoric. While their lives aren't perfect, and they and their kids might not be seen as "ethnically Japanese", they *are* accepted as part of the local community, which is a step up from, well, not being that.
Oh, I'm not making any quantitative statements about daily life. Just that in forums for immigrants *on the internet*, the "I like being discriminated against" types are a *consistent* presence. My experience is *also* that I'm accepted as a regular member of my community, but I and my family have also had bad experiences due to my nationality/race, and *I'm personally* not in the "that's how it should be!" camp. Anyway, I'm not saying this or that is a problem, just that the white guys who fetishize Japan as an ethnostate absolutely don't expect special treatment for being white. They expect and *enjoy* discrimination because they believe discrimination is good. I get why people want to dunk on white weebs, and you should, but people get the wrong idea about *why* they fetishize Japan. J-nationalist weebs don't seem to see them as allies, but they certainly enjoy the support of pick-me gaijin. If you and your friends aren't that, then I'm not making any statement about you. Just that those other guys *are a thing.*
Because so many of them formed their idealized versions of a country that are based on media depictions or stereotypes rather than the actual living experience of those in the country. It’s fetishization in every form basically, only some of them try to act on it, which is basically like trying to turn your life into a cartoon
Because believing that lets them think the problem is the country they live/were born in and not themselves.
Honestly. These guys see mukokuseki (the classic "raceless" anime style) and go "oh, basically white."
They know that it's xenophobic but think that they won't be affected by it since they're (usually) white dudes lol
As a visitor to Japan I can see where you might get the idea too. I never felt more welcomed anywhere than when I was visiting Japan. I understand there's xenophobia and it becomes more pronounced when you're actually living there, but just visiting as a guest people were so incredibly kind and welcoming to me. When I came home it actually took a minute to adjust and not view Americans around me as very rude and hostile. I could see being a social outcast in the US, loving anime, visiting Japan and everyone is just so great. Maybe things aren't working for me in the US because I belong in Japan? It's not that there's something wrong with me, I just was born in the wrong place and if I just lived there then I'd be happy and successful because they would appreciate how Japanese I am.
Which places in Japan did you visit?
Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka and Hiroshima. Friendliest person I met was a sushi chef in Hiroshima, but I liked the general vibe in Osaka the best.
I've been all over the country several times and I agree with the above dude. Japanese hospitality and politeness for a tourist is a 10/10.
I mainly look for posts from fairweather spouses cheating on the OP. Like in 90 day fiance
Those are always juicy ones. Fellas, and ladies, don’t tie the knot with someone from a very different culture unless you know both of you can manage the highs and lows together.
Related to this, I once met someone who was kicked out of Japan for marriage fraud. Obviously I didn't know this when I met her, but I later found out—also, it made headlines because she told the immigrantion officers that she was in Japan because she thought it was safer to cosplay there than in Canada.
Japan is honestly kinda lame for pursuing cosplay. There are fewer hobby shops for it compared to North America and they generally frown upon wearing cosplay in public outside of defined con perimeters. Some things are just bigger and better in the ol US of A. Strange she thought it would be safer there than Canada, what was she expecting safety wise?
Well the worst part is, in actuality she was a kyaba who overstayed her student visa and needed to marry a Japanese dude to stay in Japan. I think the cosplay thing was just a downplaying of what she actually did. She was in Japan to be a gyaru.
Hahaha! Okay, now it all makes sense to me. Guess it didn’t pan out her for. Is she banned? If not, she can try her luck as an ALT.
She is banned banned. They deported her. And the dude who she paid to marry got sentenced to 7 years hard labour in classic Japanese fashion. And the sad part of this story that also ties it back to the post is the fact that she's 3rd gen Chinese-Canadian; she didn't understand why her life in Japan was a lot harder and less opportunities than her white gaijin gyaru friends. She just thought that she could move to Japan and be Japanese because all Asians are the same...
That is a bit sad, I hope it is a lesson learned for her.
The person saying race and racial categories are socially contingent and not actually biologically based is just...right about that part though. "Race isn't real" is a very wrong thing that people say when they're too dumb to say "race is socially constructed" but that's what they're getting at, that's how it works, that's why racial categories and hierarchies change over time and across different places. That's why a lot of westerners will place Japanese and Korean people in the category "Asian" (or "East Asian" if they're either slightly less reductive or British) but in Japan Koreans are a distinct group which are racialised and discriminated against on that basis.
Yeah. Curiously people seem less likely to get confused about other social constructs being “real”, like language, currency, borders and culture. How can something with real impacts on people not be “real”? Edit for anyone looking to argue semantics: “real” doesn’t mean scientific or biologically relevant.
People mistake the stories we use to naturalise these social constructs being bullshit with the things themselves as being bullshit, and so imagine themselves not being subject to these things. Borders are made real by border guards, currency is made real by cops enforcing legal rulings when you get taken to court, race is made real not by anything on anyone's blood or skin but by banks looking at their names and patients' nationalities and possibly some cultural indicators and mayyybe some phenotypical detail (but Japanese Korean racism is a great example of even this not mattering) and denying them loans.
Some people definitely do not understand that language is a social construct.
I mean, yeah. Just not in the way weebs would like.
I do like the idea of people who "really know Japanese culture" from having read 10,000+ hours of pornographic text adventure games in the original 日本語 reading a ton of academic work by Kanchan Chandra, Derrick Bell and the Fields sisters and really trying to go deep on constructivist theories of race before eventually confronting that, yes, the problem is that the Japanese don't really want them the way they wish they did.
That is pretty funny! Accidentally based.
Heck, if you go deep enough, you start to realize that basically everything we talk about is a social construct. Even how we classify water is a social construct. The matter that makes up water is real. But we didn't have to make a separate category for 2 hydrogens 1 oxygen combined together. We chose to make it because it is useful for us.
Yeah, something really fascinating about studying anthropology is that your conception of reality itself starts to unravel until you hit a point where you realize that it doesn't actually matter if culture is made up or not, it's still real. But it makes it REALLY hard to explain basic anthropological concepts to people, because they get stuck on the "made up" part and demand that all cultural norms be universally generalized.
White dudes gatekeeping other white dudes from becoming Japanese smh
They also gatekeep people of Asian descent as well. The amount of times some Koreaboo tried to tell me I wasn’t really Korean because I don’t like X stereotypical Korean thing is wayyyy too high.
I'm *actually* Japanese. The amount of weebs both online and in-person who have tried to claim I'm "not really Japanese" despite literally being a Japanese citizen is insane.
This very sub was once brigaded by r/ japancirclejerk because a Japanese-American girl posted here and they decided she wasn't Japanese enough. Horrifyingly, the people on this sub upvoted the circlejerkers, not the girl they were harassing.
It’s pretty simple, a Korean is someone who identifies as being Korean.
2020 Olli London sent you a friend request
Olli London's first mistake was not having the surgery done in Korea.
Two fun facts. If the definition of Korean is this >Korean = someone who identifies as being Korean Then you can make the definition infinitely long by substitution. >Korean = someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being Korean forever >Korean = someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being someone who identifies as being Korean Second fun fact, words that have no meaning, have no meaning. You just made a definition for a word that offers me no information. It's telling me someone identifies as something... but what is that something? Oh the thing itself, which I still don't know the definition of. ------------ Use these fun facts to kill skynet in the future.
the japanese culture is a very gatekeep culture. all the way from broader society ("no foreigners") to local communities ("referral only clubs - we humbly have to decline the entry of those we do not know"). even the language itself is stratified depending on whether the person you are speaking to belongs to your inside group or not, and whether that person belongs to your inside group at that point in time that you are speaking to him depends on the situation. you can imagine, as a foreigner, never having grown up in the culture, never having spent two decades of your life watching your parents, your teachers, your aunts and uncles, everyone around you, play the game, you have to learn the unwritten rules from scratch. even the japanese cannot fully articulate the complexity of the rules, it is second nature to them, learnt from mimicry, not from memory. now that you are in the in-group, why make it easy for others to join? you struggled and fought and you earned it. why shouldn't the others suffer like you did for it?
> oddly nationalistic fervor for Japan They're weebs. It'd be odder if there wasn't any.
How does someone watch anime and get the idea that Japan is some utopia? Power fantasies aren't dreamt up by people who feel fully fulfilled in life. *Especially* when those power fantasies involve dying and being reborn somewhere else (isekai).
Like half of those people really should have just played Yakuza 2 and saved us all alot of time.
Based
Subreddits I miss: /r/japancirclejerk and /r/shoplifting
I'm just going to assume those two subs are related because that's funny to me.
Knowing the anime stores that used to be open around my area, probably highly related. Note the “used to be”.
Well they're both purged from reddit, I guess they have that in common. A girl can dream tho, a girl can dream...
What happened to the former anyway?
Another comment said they doxxed some alt and reddit got mad 😡
No, they were openly brigading other subs and harassing people. The doxxing incident happened after they'd already been put on probation by admins and had their mods purged. The whole "jcj got banned for doxxing a pedophile" is just cope. Even to this day you can tell an old jcj regular because they completely lack any self-awareness whatsoever.
iirc, it was an alt that had a weird* hobby of photography of underaged women
Shoplifting was the funniest sub to browse. Debates about morality, commentary from loss prevention, etc. Sad day when it got shut down.
"Look at my HAUL I'm sticking it to the MAN" and it's a picture of two limes and a pack of AA-batteries
nasty subreddit, need correction 😭😭😭
This guy is either a very committed troll or as dense as a rock, because I'm just a casual anime fan and even I know what nihongo jouzu implies.
I do agree that for some people, there is an unhealthy amount of romanticization of what particular experiences in Japan are like. Ages ago, I subbed to a subreddit about a particular form of entertainment in Japan because I was on vacation there, and planned to go to a couple of shows. When I posted on the subreddit asking whether it was worth going to a show at a smaller venue as well as one at a big auditorium, someone responded that asking the question meant I didn’t know enough about the entertainment form to appreciate it and didn’t deserve to go. Then when I later posted about how one performer at one show got a more subdued reaction then others, the same poster made a bunch of personal attacks saying my experience was wrong(?), and basically told me I was wasting the once in a lifetime honor of … going to a show in Japan, and how that made me a lifelong loser. When I ended up ignoring the dude after initially foolishly responding, for days after, I received a bunch of almost identically worded posts from “different” posters all making the same claims I was wasting the incredible honor of being in Japan for these shows. While Japan is an awesome country in many respects, I think for some people, being in Japan represents some sort of unattainable fantasyland where all their personal shortcomings will magically disappear. Rather disturbingly, I did notice that one of the accounts the dude was using had made multiple posts claiming to be a teenage boy who wanted to make friends in Japan, while the other accounts made it clear the dude was an adult male in the US. I reported the account and it later came up as deleted, but it is a little worrying why exactly the dude was imagining Japan would be such a magical experience for him.
You also get a lot of atheist idolizing it as an atheist utopia. However the vast majority of Japanese people do have a religion but they conceptualize religion a bit different than the west typically does. Since they don’t have much of an *organized* religion, they often answer surgery’s that they are ‘unaffiliated’.
I think there was a quote that said like "You're Shinto when you're a child, a Christian when you get married, and a Buddhist when you die." Japanese are very flexible about religion.
I got the joke and I haven't lived in Japan for a decade and a half.
> My friends don't make statements like "you're not Japanese because you're [skin color]", redditors do. your select group of friends not being overtly racist to you in particular totally does mean that racism doesn't exist. and just think, if some very progressive Japanese person ever accuses those friends of being racist, they can point out that they've got one white friend and that fully proves that they're absolutely not racist at all. like in all seriousness though, obviously there are people who accept foreigners, and people who think foreigners are weird and fascinating. and obviously those people gravitate towards foreigners more. it just doesn't really prove anything at all any the broader context of how people interpret cultural belonging. and the oop is crazy to even think that being accepted into Japanese culture makes them Japanese ethnically. that's not how it works anywhere, no matter how insular/accepting/open or xenophobic/xenophilic.
Just reading through the first few comments in the post reminds me of the recent Miss Japan controversy. I’m not reading through all that, I don’t have the strength for it.
> wrote this whataburger of a post I saw this and couldn’t continue reading the rest of the post. Is this a phrase now? Has it always been? Is this a Mandela effect?
(You want to purchase food from Whataburger) Yeah, I've totally heard people use it before! Maybe it's a regional thing? (You want to purchase food from Whataburger)
At least it's not Whalburgers
*Wahlburgers
It’s not. They got confused. To be fair though, “nothing burger” felt like a phrase suddenly everyone was using.
This just reminded me that I dreamed about Whataburger last night. Weird.
I moved to a part of the country without them… the dreams are real lol
It’s not but it should be. I’m going to start using it.
Pretty sure Whataburger is what Mandela asked as a last meal before he died in prison.
Maybe they’re a loco Texas weaboo? It hasn’t been a saying and referencing a fast food chain is really lame?
Weebs gonna weeb.
I saw that post. It felt like a weeb being desperate to become accepted as Japanese. My guy, just accept you will be be a forever gaijin.
This kind of thing goes back to the message board days of the internet. Those neckbeard weebs who'd proclaim expertise in Japanese culture. Nobody could say how wrong they were because nobody knew better either. I still don't know how true the stuff they said was.
From time to time Asian country subs always argue about nationality vs ethnicity. It comes from the dissatisfaction of being treated as a foreigner even if they were fluent or lived there a long time. They have no chance when even halfs or non-Japanese people born in Japan don't always. It's a really Western perspective bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc. I don't think it's completely just weebs wanting to "change" their ethnicity, although you might come across those people. Also r/Japanlife in general needs JCJ, their antithesis to police them a little or they get too wild. Too bad it got permabanned because they doxxed an ALT. Doxxed as in they shared his tumblr, not his face or address.
Some places will never accept you as a local. My grandma moved to Florida as a child, from Massachusetts. Even when she died, she was still not accepted as a local. Not excluded, but never one of them good ole girls.
I suppose it will really can happen in any small towns that don't get an influx of new people moving in over the decades. Someone who hasn't lived the shared history. Japan has it even tho they are much bigger cause they have intentionally put in a lot of effort to block themselves off from the outside world and continue to differentiate themselves from those they consider 'others'.
>in any small towns that don't get an influx of new people moving in over the decades. Someone who hasn't lived the shared history Except that this also happens to Asian diaspora who live in major Western cities that are constantly getting new immigrants and transplants, not just the ones who live/grow up in the boonies.
The town was regularly getting new people. My grandfather also moved to the area as a child, but his family was from southern Georgia. Grandma was just too much of a Yankee. This was in East-central florida on the Atlantic coast
Can't speak for the other countries but UK do not have that attitude at all. It's not as strong as Japan's but people who seem foreign absolutely get treated differently regardless of whether they were actually born here.
>It's a really Western perspective bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc. Lol. In theory, sure. In practice, I can't tell you how many times I've been asked where I'm from in the country of my birth, or if I can speak English, or sometimes being told to go back to my own country. The ideal of Western society is very far from its reality, the reality is much closer to Japan for people like me than most people know.
I think they meant that Asians born in western countries are considered a person of the western country by the Asian countries, not within the western countries.
Which is heartbreaking in its own way. I’ve met several Asian Americans who came “home” to find a place to belong to and I’ve had to break it to them that no, as far as we’re concerned you’re just… American.
> bcos if you're Asian and born in NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, America etc you're just American or Australian or Canadian etc To whomst? Asian diaspora in these places regularly get told by people in their birth countries to “go back to where you came from”. Also what is with this nostalgia for the CJ subreddit? It was a cringe cesspit for 4chan style expat “humor” where people were being “ironically” racist about their Japanese wives and shitting on Japanese culture.
A bit off topic but I’m so tired of people saying “race isn’t real” to justify their naive view of a post racism society. It’s a socio-legal construct, but so are money, rights and taxes, yet people rarely get confused about those not being “real”. Edit for anyone looking to argue semantics: “real” doesn’t mean scientific or biologically relevant.
>Too bad it got permabanned because they doxxed an ALT Not true. They were banned for habitually brigading other subs and harassing people. Admins had put them on probation for months before the doxxing incident. The whole "jcj got banned for doxxing a pedophile" thing is just jcj cope because they have literally zero self-awareness. Nobody needs them. They contributed less than nothing to this site.
The UK definitely does not accept non white (or even Eastern European) people as British no matter what. At best a Scottish person will act accepting to dunk on the English or a left wing person will do the same to dunk on the right, but the society around them remains exclusionary. Can't speak for any of the other countries in question but it seems like some parts of America and Canada are much better about that at least
Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620123510/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dk9mpv/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dk9mpv/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. r/japanlife - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620123954/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. r/japanresidents - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124034/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanresidents) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanresidents "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. one post - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124155/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/you_will_never_be_japanese_you_will_never_be/?sort=top) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/you_will_never_be_japanese_you_will_never_be/?sort=top "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. I say this with all due respect having read your entire post: I don't think I've ever seen a longer post that says less than yours does. This entire post could be condensed to an brief paragraph that the key to integration into Japan is learning the culture and language to a high degree of proficiency. Shit, I just said as much as your essay in a single sentence. Anyway, you forget that the majority of people who care so much about this issue care because they hate themselves and internalize their self-hate as a hatred of their origins and desperately want to be ethnically Japanese which IS impossible. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124256/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eukk6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eukk6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. Why do you or they care? Seriously, 100% serious question, why do you care what they say and why do they care enough to say anything in the first place? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124316/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etimj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etimj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. Sounds like someone is mad because he was told wow 日本語上手ですね (means "your Japanese is good", used in praise of ostensible novices) - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124417/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ev5jr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ev5jr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. I don't really get what you're trying to say, but you still won't be "fully" Japanese from the native Japanese's perspective. I agree with the things you've said about language and culture, but you just won't. I'm a Japanese-southeast asian mix, but from a "full" native Japanese person's perspective, I am not a legitimate Japanese. It is part of the identity of being Japanese to have a ウチとソトmindset. It's deeply rooted in the history of Japan. That's why the term "hafu" exists. It's a term to segregate and marginalize biracial children. Look how we are forced to select a nationality at 20. Have you seen how much debate Karolina Shiino sparked as a naturalized Japanese? You are accepted, but only to a certain extent. You are Japanese, but only to a certain extent. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620124819/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exbh7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exbh7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. Do you not have friends to shoot the shit with and have these kinds of meandering navel-gazing conversations about in person over drinks or - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125141/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exldx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9exldx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. To the point about people being treated by country there is that comedy set by Evans Musoka, who is Kenyan, on how he tries to make the Japanese think he is African American since he gets treated better that way. The rest of this post makes little sense and it gets topped off with the statement that “race isn’t real” , and that’s hilarious on a couple levels including OP comments that “the USA is a race based society.” - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125242/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f1dem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f1dem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 11. Alright lads, let's move on, OP pretty much admitted they're just trolling here for the 3 karma points. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125423/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f0rqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9f0rqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 12. This person even went through the trouble of making a throw away to post this. I wish I had more free time. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125624/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etzdm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9etzdm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 13. r/japanlife - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620125946/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 14. "It's a bit early for drinking" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620010106/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eu866/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9eu866/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 15. "ChatGPT refused to summarize it and told me to instead write a snarky comment" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240620010126/https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ezvbw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1dk1vik/comment/l9ezvbw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
"the idea of being Japanese having to do with ancestry is a left-wing idea" Tell me that you know absolutely nothing about Asian culture without telling me that you know absolutely nothing about Asian culture.
The fact that everyone here is posting in English makes the irony of this even deeper. Like seriously - if you want to add legitimacy to your point about being culturally Japanese or whatever - then post in fully fluent Japanese. At least then you would have other Japanese people and fully fluent learners discussing the nuances of identity in response. I don't quite get forums about a place, populated by people from that place / trying to live in that place, using English as the predominant language rather than the language of that place.
I mean, it's a subreddit for people for foreigners living in Japan. Many are new to the country and don't speak Japanese. It'd be good practice, sure, but the point is to have a place to relax and discuss things, not to be on the language grind. ...Not to suggest they ever relax on that sub lol
I just watched a video of a woman who was born and raised in Japan and never left Japan, but her parents are both British. She isn't considered "japanese" by the Japanese people.
And if she has a kid, the British won't let her pass down her citizenship either because she wasn't born in Britain so if she has a kid with another foreigner in Japan it could lead to the kid not having *any* citizenship.
I have no idea why some Americans want so desperately to be accepted by Japanese people as their own, or even Asians in general. Well, I do have an hunch. I believe there is a stage past weaboo that people raised in conservative (or christian perhaps since its a majority in the USA) settings go into--which is licking at a scoop of Japanese nationalism due to a nebulous cluster of ideals they develop if you live in this nation and they aren't nipped by parents or your community. This is because perhaps, they identify with conservative american nationalism or it's ideals. Maybe Japanese culture feels like an aesthetic buffet to them. At best, they get into petty fights with people over culture over who will be acceptable. At worst they start spewing anti semitism and other harmful extremism unrelated to being a simple Japanese resident. Just be respectful, being clocked as safe to be around probably means more in life than trying to wave a ethnic status or region over your head. Lately, people don't enjoy assholes 24/7 and it's okay for friends to just be different? Sheesh.
Started with hajimari but didn't end with owari. Sad.
I'm so fucking glad I finally left that subreddit.