I don't understand. Is it because if they collab with a dude it means they're definitely fucking and then will not fuck their parasocially obsessed audience or what?
It's idol fandom nonsense. Hololive talents are marketed as idols, and idols in Japan are meant to perpetuate this weird kayfabe where they pretend to live in a world populated entirely by women. They're not supposed to have any informal interactions with men unless they're members of that idol's fanbase.
If you're thinking of Rushia, it was drama both from her fans and the fans of the guy, but Cover supported her and she eventually got fired for leaking stuff to a dramatuber.
Then there was even more drama and well.
Pretty much, they’re known as unicorn fans because they want the vtuber girls to remain ‘pure’. Note that it’s highly dependent on the vtuber themselves and the audience they’re cultivating. It can range from a unicorn-friendly pure idol brand (example EN fuwamoco, will not acknowledge male vtubers, works a very cutesy vibe) all the way to fully ignoring/rejecting a unicorn fanbase (example ID Ollie who collabs outside the company with indie male vtubers, makes filthy jokes).
Yeah I remember Mori Calliope and Kronii establishing pretty early on that if you have issues when they have collabs with guys then the door is right there. Which I was grateful for since it let their pretty damn hilarious collabs with Vesper and Magni happen.
Swerving the camera in games to avoid showing the guys, not talking when they’re on screen, just downright ignoring the existence of the male branch I guess
So they did a collab watch along with Bae and Ina of the Super Expo Guide/Promo where it showed off everyone in summer outfits.
They all cheered and talked when the girls were being shown but when the Stars popped up, FWMC went completely silent while Bae and Ina continued on as normal with compliments
Kanata apparently swerved to avoid showing the boys on screen while in a Live/Stars collab. I’ve been told she’s explained herself to be an Idol purist
And Gura apparently just pretends to not know the Stars branch exist but I have no evidence of that and it’s basically just word of mouth for that
What the OP said. Note that this is /not/ the standard for the industry. Hololive is specifically an idol-type anime girl brand (and even then a lot of them are the opposite within the company). i just used fuwamoco because they go hard into that purity wholesome girls aesthetic. Basically think uh, any media with the manic pixie girlfriend? and you’ve got the gist
I’ll also add it’s a somewhat regional vibe? You’ve got hololive Japan (JP), hololive English (EN) for all the english-speaking countries, and hololive Indonesia (ID). One of the EN boy groups lost members and was reduced to a pair, and some of the biggest hololive ID girls have very actively adopted them, feature in the duo’s concerts, meet offline irl, declared them family etc. and the general understanding is that unicorns would get eaten alive by the SEA fanbase if they try and make trouble for those girls.
https://youtu.be/WbyQaZZMDkM?si=Ru9DnLQe366qWMWL Ollie is one of the ID girls who completely DGAF (as you can see by this 4 minute subtitled rant of her shredding strips off her male audience at rap speed)
So yeah idk feel free to ask me questions if that wasn’t boring tl;dr, tho i mostly just watch indies. They’re good second monitor content
Honestly that type of mentality has been a thing long before V-tubers, vaguely remember people getting angry when female streamers said they are in a relationship or it was revealed they were.
But yeah it has gotten worse with V-tubers in the mix.
It is one of the (several) reasons I've been watching Hololive less and less.
The most annoying aspect of it all is when some Hololive (the female talents) characters would *go out of their way* to avoid contact with the Holostars (the male talents)
Like Kanata whirling her screen around to avoid showing the men in-game (in Minecraft). Or Fuwamoco just stopping talking when a male was on-screen. Or Irys being adamant that she wasn't gonna talk to the men in a festival.
Like.....fuck. They don't have to collaborate with men if they don't want to, but that shit is *fucking weird*.
One of the reasons I like Hololive ID (and other companies like Vshojo) is because they are completely unafraid to tell their fanbases to fuck off and watch someone else if they (the talents) do something the fans don't like.
Wait…seriously? Holy fuck. That’s so fucking weird. I’ve been diving into this real deep, trying to figure this shot out, and now it seems likes almost a corporate issue trickling to the talents.
You dead serious when you say they just stopped talking when one of the guys showed up? That’s messed
Edit: found the clip. That’s very awkward.
I looked up a Fuwamoco clip of the incident, and besides the already weird silent treatment, the clipper liking every comment that approved of them not talking to men was even weirder. They even had "🦄👍" in the title.
I saw a lot of people saying "if you say we should respect their decisions, then you should respect it when they decide they *don't* want to talk to/about men". The problem is, I feel a lot of the women are pressured into not doing it by their obsessive fans. I don't think it's really a "choice" when a harassment campaign is almost guaranteed the second they talk to a man. Like, choosing to not get harassed isn't much of a "choice". It's basically deciding if you are willing to take the harassment with it or not. I seriously doubt these women *actually* want nothing to do with men. I know androphobia is a real thing, and many vtubers have anxiety problems, but "going silent when a man appears", "promising their fans they'll never talk to a man", and "not letting a man be shown on screen" falls well outside of androphobia. Especially when they have no problems talking about the men in the games they play. It's only "real" men that aren't allowed to speak or be seen on screen.
That being said, I don't really fault them for not doing it. Like I said, almost every vtuber under Cover that has collabed with men has received harassment at one point for doing it. Hell, a discord message from a man toppled some dominoes that eventually led to Rushia being forced to leave (she broke an NDA, but it was because she was getting harassed and thought it was "solve" the harassment (allegedly, tho she has a lot more can of worms and way more info has come out that makes things weird)). As easy as it is for me to say "just ignore the weirdos", I'm not the one that is going to get harassment about it.
100% agreed on everything
That clipper is definitely fishing for stuff to fit his agenda.
And yeah, the cultural issues that the vocal minority have grafted themselves onto has absolutely fucked with how the female talent go about things. You’ve got Towa having to take a week off because people heard male voices in the background,so now you’ve got some talent just outright avoiding showing them on camera(haven’t found the Kanata clip yet), others just outright saying they don’t plan on collaborating(this could just be preference to how they want to operate, more power to em if so) and obviously the FWMC clip.
The thing with the FWMC is how Ina and Bae continue to talk and cheer. It just exacerbates the silence of the other two.
Not to mention all the comments going “BASED” like they’re getting brownie points
In case anyone wants an example of the cause of the "rage" against the girls collabbing with the boys, [this is a """therapy""" stream with Kronii (woman) and Vesper (man).](https://www.youtube.com/live/4WCUqrsTcHM) It is, perhaps, one of the most unhinged things to come out of Hololive.
Love me clock
I REALLY need a book or something about the psychology of parasocial relationships, especially on the internet. I love deep-diving into fringe groups, such as inceldom, but parasocial behavior is something I want to study more
If you want a wild ride into the peak of vtuber parasocial insanity, just look up the downfall of the top selling vtuber of the ‘girlfriend experience’: Uruha Rushia. Basically earned the Most Money working the ‘your crazy possessive girlfriend’ angle down to wedding ring merch.
I wonder what the typical audience is for this. Yes, we can pull-up some neckbeard photo, but like furries, I’m certain there are more in plain sight given how much this generates.
Anyone lonely, really - there’s a market for both genders, the boyfriend experience exists too. It’s not really different from anything else that takes advantage of the human propensity to go parasocial when there’s no other socialisation to go around, mixed in with an audience finding a likeminded community to obsess with (not different from crazy taylor swift fans, sports fans, etc. who feel a deep personal relationship to a celebrity). Though it’s not my thing and I have a strong preference for silly indies playing games as their streams, I don’t hold it against the GFE/BFE streamers as long as they’re not predatory advertising to kids or whatever. They’re selling a service with high demand.
Always saw VTubers as YouTubers with anonymity. I do wonder, though. As you stated, obsessiveness and media do seem to go hand in hand. Would Taylor Swiftor sports be as popular if their obsessive fans weren’t as vocal?
Oh to clarify: those are NOT the majority of vtubers. You’re right about it being youtubers with anonymity (though the ones I watch are actually open with their identities as voice actors). The experience ones I just described are a niche, not the majority.
God i miss Vesper
He wasnt the funniest on his own but he was SO GOOD at bringing out the best of everyone he is with. The Zoomer vs Boomer trivia with Bae was also top tier
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085739/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dldvvq/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dldvvq/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. Kronii is taking a strong stance against the people upset about the Holostars collab and Cover is fully supporting her.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085941/https://old.reddit.com/gallery/xi41oo) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/gallery/xi41oo "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. This is some cultural cross-pollination. An Indonesian, Austrailian, Filipino, Bri'ish, and American walk into a bar...! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090002/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/this_is_some_cultural_crosspollination_an/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/this_is_some_cultural_crosspollination_an/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. Since it is still relevant:
Hey everyone you can report botting directly to reddit using this report form under other issue and vote manipulation:! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090103/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/comment/l9kxsf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/comment/l9kxsf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. Auto Mod becomes Overactive! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090405/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1ci209m/comment/l26xzo4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1ci209m/comment/l26xzo4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. Run, boys, run.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090546/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/run_boys_run/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/run_boys_run/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. Here you go.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090646/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cwdpzw/can_we_post_stars_stuff_now/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Hololive&utm_content=t1_l9ca6h7) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cwdpzw/can_we_post_stars_stuff_now/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Hololive&utm_content=t1_l9ca6h7 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
12. Explanation! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090747/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/comment/l9d5mke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/comment/l9d5mke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
*I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
Okay so here's what I don't get: what botting is *actually* occurring?
Holostars posts on the sub have been routinely downvoted, along with any positive comments on them, for ages. The automod was used to mass flag their posts when it became clear no actual moderation was happening. Negative comments and a certain group of people minimodding to try and push out Stars fans consistently get ~40-80 upvotes, even 15 comments deep into a hidden thread. Like clockwork, it happens every single time.
None of that gets labeled as botting, at least as far as I've seen.
Some holostars posts break into the front page of the sub and get roughly the same amount of upvotes as anything else over the same amount of time (but still with a much worse ratio, ~15-20% downvotes) and now the first comment on every new stars post is "bots coming soon!"
As far as I can tell, *one* post got removed by spam filters, no indication as to who caused it or why, and then this narrative formed that *every* post is being botted. But is it really? Or is that just more ammunition in this years-long hate fest?
Whether it's botting or brigading or whatever, it sure is awfully convenient that it gives an excuse for the same band of people to rant about how pathetic and/or mentally ill stars fans are in every post that gains traction. Makes you think.
Hololive fans being weird about holostars isn't really an unusual day in the fandom, tbh. I'm honestly a little shocked this is the first time I hear about the parasocial weirdness here.
this divide between hololive and stars just makes me so sad. the boys are so, so incredibly talented. they're so smart and funny and creative that it just makes me feel awful that the majority of hololive fans treat them as lesser.
im glad holojustice is trying to break down those barriers but theyre already getting harassed for it.
everything sucks, man.
Since your fairly active in the community and seem to be one of the more prominent members of the sub(your name popped up quite a bit during my browsing), do you maybe wanna share your thoughts on this whole thing? I saw that you were fighting back against the Stars fans quite a bit.
Sure, the subs history is summarised [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/RRSQXejO9S) and [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/5YtOXa8qT5)
Much like every community, there are always tourist and weirdos who desperately try to inforce their views on the larger community. These people have deluded themselves into believing that the girls arnt making the content this particular group wants because the culture/environment/fans/management is prevented them. Not because they don't want to.
In short, they think the current content hololive is making is made in the _wrong way_ and they want to make it the _the right way_. These are a bunch of deranged cultural warriors that use holostars to force a cultural shift in hololive. Or atleast that's what they believe in their head.
Thousands of threads in r/hololive have been flooded with ignorant people who make things up about talents, shit on idol culture/fanbases all with little understanding of the situation. If these people keep doing it the state of subreddit certainly isn't going to get better.
It's a mix of both. hololive is massive, so they are always going to get people throwing shit at them.
Fans should seperate narratives from reality and not fuel them. [Suisei ](https://youtu.be/LrCABLI0qHE?si=7NV5X4xWwxb-YDCi)[has talked ](https://youtu.be/MrEiVj_8EIk?si=LsU5LZAvIL_0yeEf)[about this. ](https://youtu.be/ZGgA5yHh2Mw?si=kGjqcoMfpOUdMpsu)
The community will always have people who say things like this yes, but these people are currently too high in number and will make a mess of every hololive space they go into.
The situation on the subreddit can be fixed with proper moderation, or changing the subs nature to only include hololive. Neither of these are going to happen so for the foreseeable future it's not going to change.
Better moderation would probably be the best. Completely excluding half of the company’s talent from being talked about would probably just lead to more conflict
I don't understand. Is it because if they collab with a dude it means they're definitely fucking and then will not fuck their parasocially obsessed audience or what?
It's idol fandom nonsense. Hololive talents are marketed as idols, and idols in Japan are meant to perpetuate this weird kayfabe where they pretend to live in a world populated entirely by women. They're not supposed to have any informal interactions with men unless they're members of that idol's fanbase.
I remember an idol having to issue a public apology because a guy (IIRC her boyfriend) was seen at her house.
I'm pretty sure they got in trouble for having boyfriends
If you're thinking of Rushia, it was drama both from her fans and the fans of the guy, but Cover supported her and she eventually got fired for leaking stuff to a dramatuber. Then there was even more drama and well.
Has Rushia ever returned to vtubing since her firing.
Pretty much, they’re known as unicorn fans because they want the vtuber girls to remain ‘pure’. Note that it’s highly dependent on the vtuber themselves and the audience they’re cultivating. It can range from a unicorn-friendly pure idol brand (example EN fuwamoco, will not acknowledge male vtubers, works a very cutesy vibe) all the way to fully ignoring/rejecting a unicorn fanbase (example ID Ollie who collabs outside the company with indie male vtubers, makes filthy jokes).
Yeah I remember Mori Calliope and Kronii establishing pretty early on that if you have issues when they have collabs with guys then the door is right there. Which I was grateful for since it let their pretty damn hilarious collabs with Vesper and Magni happen.
Wdym they don't acknowledge male vtubers?
Swerving the camera in games to avoid showing the guys, not talking when they’re on screen, just downright ignoring the existence of the male branch I guess
Seriously uncomfortable and cringey
wait this is a thing the twins have being doing this in collabs?
So they did a collab watch along with Bae and Ina of the Super Expo Guide/Promo where it showed off everyone in summer outfits. They all cheered and talked when the girls were being shown but when the Stars popped up, FWMC went completely silent while Bae and Ina continued on as normal with compliments Kanata apparently swerved to avoid showing the boys on screen while in a Live/Stars collab. I’ve been told she’s explained herself to be an Idol purist And Gura apparently just pretends to not know the Stars branch exist but I have no evidence of that and it’s basically just word of mouth for that
What the OP said. Note that this is /not/ the standard for the industry. Hololive is specifically an idol-type anime girl brand (and even then a lot of them are the opposite within the company). i just used fuwamoco because they go hard into that purity wholesome girls aesthetic. Basically think uh, any media with the manic pixie girlfriend? and you’ve got the gist I’ll also add it’s a somewhat regional vibe? You’ve got hololive Japan (JP), hololive English (EN) for all the english-speaking countries, and hololive Indonesia (ID). One of the EN boy groups lost members and was reduced to a pair, and some of the biggest hololive ID girls have very actively adopted them, feature in the duo’s concerts, meet offline irl, declared them family etc. and the general understanding is that unicorns would get eaten alive by the SEA fanbase if they try and make trouble for those girls. https://youtu.be/WbyQaZZMDkM?si=Ru9DnLQe366qWMWL Ollie is one of the ID girls who completely DGAF (as you can see by this 4 minute subtitled rant of her shredding strips off her male audience at rap speed) So yeah idk feel free to ask me questions if that wasn’t boring tl;dr, tho i mostly just watch indies. They’re good second monitor content
Here’s an example: https://youtu.be/7L9w_cLnA7g?si=a2h6O-kQcloFMM2U
Honestly it does seem like some of the fandom has bought into the worst aspects of Idol Culture
Honestly that type of mentality has been a thing long before V-tubers, vaguely remember people getting angry when female streamers said they are in a relationship or it was revealed they were. But yeah it has gotten worse with V-tubers in the mix.
It is one of the (several) reasons I've been watching Hololive less and less. The most annoying aspect of it all is when some Hololive (the female talents) characters would *go out of their way* to avoid contact with the Holostars (the male talents) Like Kanata whirling her screen around to avoid showing the men in-game (in Minecraft). Or Fuwamoco just stopping talking when a male was on-screen. Or Irys being adamant that she wasn't gonna talk to the men in a festival. Like.....fuck. They don't have to collaborate with men if they don't want to, but that shit is *fucking weird*. One of the reasons I like Hololive ID (and other companies like Vshojo) is because they are completely unafraid to tell their fanbases to fuck off and watch someone else if they (the talents) do something the fans don't like.
Wait…seriously? Holy fuck. That’s so fucking weird. I’ve been diving into this real deep, trying to figure this shot out, and now it seems likes almost a corporate issue trickling to the talents. You dead serious when you say they just stopped talking when one of the guys showed up? That’s messed Edit: found the clip. That’s very awkward.
I looked up a Fuwamoco clip of the incident, and besides the already weird silent treatment, the clipper liking every comment that approved of them not talking to men was even weirder. They even had "🦄👍" in the title. I saw a lot of people saying "if you say we should respect their decisions, then you should respect it when they decide they *don't* want to talk to/about men". The problem is, I feel a lot of the women are pressured into not doing it by their obsessive fans. I don't think it's really a "choice" when a harassment campaign is almost guaranteed the second they talk to a man. Like, choosing to not get harassed isn't much of a "choice". It's basically deciding if you are willing to take the harassment with it or not. I seriously doubt these women *actually* want nothing to do with men. I know androphobia is a real thing, and many vtubers have anxiety problems, but "going silent when a man appears", "promising their fans they'll never talk to a man", and "not letting a man be shown on screen" falls well outside of androphobia. Especially when they have no problems talking about the men in the games they play. It's only "real" men that aren't allowed to speak or be seen on screen. That being said, I don't really fault them for not doing it. Like I said, almost every vtuber under Cover that has collabed with men has received harassment at one point for doing it. Hell, a discord message from a man toppled some dominoes that eventually led to Rushia being forced to leave (she broke an NDA, but it was because she was getting harassed and thought it was "solve" the harassment (allegedly, tho she has a lot more can of worms and way more info has come out that makes things weird)). As easy as it is for me to say "just ignore the weirdos", I'm not the one that is going to get harassment about it.
100% agreed on everything That clipper is definitely fishing for stuff to fit his agenda. And yeah, the cultural issues that the vocal minority have grafted themselves onto has absolutely fucked with how the female talent go about things. You’ve got Towa having to take a week off because people heard male voices in the background,so now you’ve got some talent just outright avoiding showing them on camera(haven’t found the Kanata clip yet), others just outright saying they don’t plan on collaborating(this could just be preference to how they want to operate, more power to em if so) and obviously the FWMC clip. The thing with the FWMC is how Ina and Bae continue to talk and cheer. It just exacerbates the silence of the other two. Not to mention all the comments going “BASED” like they’re getting brownie points
>haven’t found the Kanata clip yet IIRC, it was from the same event as the FWMC clip, since the Holostars and Hololivers were playing together
It's even weirder than that. That's what they want from the *characters*.
In case anyone wants an example of the cause of the "rage" against the girls collabbing with the boys, [this is a """therapy""" stream with Kronii (woman) and Vesper (man).](https://www.youtube.com/live/4WCUqrsTcHM) It is, perhaps, one of the most unhinged things to come out of Hololive. Love me clock
I REALLY need a book or something about the psychology of parasocial relationships, especially on the internet. I love deep-diving into fringe groups, such as inceldom, but parasocial behavior is something I want to study more
If you want a wild ride into the peak of vtuber parasocial insanity, just look up the downfall of the top selling vtuber of the ‘girlfriend experience’: Uruha Rushia. Basically earned the Most Money working the ‘your crazy possessive girlfriend’ angle down to wedding ring merch.
I wonder what the typical audience is for this. Yes, we can pull-up some neckbeard photo, but like furries, I’m certain there are more in plain sight given how much this generates.
Anyone lonely, really - there’s a market for both genders, the boyfriend experience exists too. It’s not really different from anything else that takes advantage of the human propensity to go parasocial when there’s no other socialisation to go around, mixed in with an audience finding a likeminded community to obsess with (not different from crazy taylor swift fans, sports fans, etc. who feel a deep personal relationship to a celebrity). Though it’s not my thing and I have a strong preference for silly indies playing games as their streams, I don’t hold it against the GFE/BFE streamers as long as they’re not predatory advertising to kids or whatever. They’re selling a service with high demand.
Always saw VTubers as YouTubers with anonymity. I do wonder, though. As you stated, obsessiveness and media do seem to go hand in hand. Would Taylor Swiftor sports be as popular if their obsessive fans weren’t as vocal?
Oh to clarify: those are NOT the majority of vtubers. You’re right about it being youtubers with anonymity (though the ones I watch are actually open with their identities as voice actors). The experience ones I just described are a niche, not the majority.
God i miss Vesper He wasnt the funniest on his own but he was SO GOOD at bringing out the best of everyone he is with. The Zoomer vs Boomer trivia with Bae was also top tier
Yeah I tried to watch his non-HL content and it really doesn't hit the same way as before.
"Time smut."
Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085739/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dldvvq/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1dldvvq/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. Kronii is taking a strong stance against the people upset about the Holostars collab and Cover is fully supporting her.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085941/https://old.reddit.com/gallery/xi41oo) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/gallery/xi41oo "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. This is some cultural cross-pollination. An Indonesian, Austrailian, Filipino, Bri'ish, and American walk into a bar...! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090002/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/this_is_some_cultural_crosspollination_an/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/this_is_some_cultural_crosspollination_an/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. Since it is still relevant: Hey everyone you can report botting directly to reddit using this report form under other issue and vote manipulation:! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090103/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/comment/l9kxsf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1dkp4hl/comment/l9kxsf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. Auto Mod becomes Overactive! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090405/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1ci209m/comment/l26xzo4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1ci209m/comment/l26xzo4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. Run, boys, run.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090546/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/run_boys_run/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/run_boys_run/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. r/Hololive - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621085900/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 11. Here you go.! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090646/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cwdpzw/can_we_post_stars_stuff_now/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Hololive&utm_content=t1_l9ca6h7) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1cwdpzw/can_we_post_stars_stuff_now/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Hololive&utm_content=t1_l9ca6h7 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 12. Explanation! - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240621090747/https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/comment/l9d5mke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1djhc3f/comment/l9d5mke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
Okay so here's what I don't get: what botting is *actually* occurring? Holostars posts on the sub have been routinely downvoted, along with any positive comments on them, for ages. The automod was used to mass flag their posts when it became clear no actual moderation was happening. Negative comments and a certain group of people minimodding to try and push out Stars fans consistently get ~40-80 upvotes, even 15 comments deep into a hidden thread. Like clockwork, it happens every single time. None of that gets labeled as botting, at least as far as I've seen. Some holostars posts break into the front page of the sub and get roughly the same amount of upvotes as anything else over the same amount of time (but still with a much worse ratio, ~15-20% downvotes) and now the first comment on every new stars post is "bots coming soon!" As far as I can tell, *one* post got removed by spam filters, no indication as to who caused it or why, and then this narrative formed that *every* post is being botted. But is it really? Or is that just more ammunition in this years-long hate fest?
Whether it's botting or brigading or whatever, it sure is awfully convenient that it gives an excuse for the same band of people to rant about how pathetic and/or mentally ill stars fans are in every post that gains traction. Makes you think.
Hololive fans being weird about holostars isn't really an unusual day in the fandom, tbh. I'm honestly a little shocked this is the first time I hear about the parasocial weirdness here.
Vtuber fans being weird freaks? Say it ain't so!
this divide between hololive and stars just makes me so sad. the boys are so, so incredibly talented. they're so smart and funny and creative that it just makes me feel awful that the majority of hololive fans treat them as lesser. im glad holojustice is trying to break down those barriers but theyre already getting harassed for it. everything sucks, man.
Kinda seems like it’s just ERB doing the leg work, but hey, Ollie, Kobo and Kronii can back her up.
>im glad holojustice is trying to break down those barriers but theyre already getting harassed for it. Did this come to you in your dreams?
maybe "harassed" is a bad word but they're getting lots of hate for it. it doesn't take a lot of digging to find this.
Since your fairly active in the community and seem to be one of the more prominent members of the sub(your name popped up quite a bit during my browsing), do you maybe wanna share your thoughts on this whole thing? I saw that you were fighting back against the Stars fans quite a bit.
Sure, the subs history is summarised [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/RRSQXejO9S) and [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/5YtOXa8qT5) Much like every community, there are always tourist and weirdos who desperately try to inforce their views on the larger community. These people have deluded themselves into believing that the girls arnt making the content this particular group wants because the culture/environment/fans/management is prevented them. Not because they don't want to. In short, they think the current content hololive is making is made in the _wrong way_ and they want to make it the _the right way_. These are a bunch of deranged cultural warriors that use holostars to force a cultural shift in hololive. Or atleast that's what they believe in their head. Thousands of threads in r/hololive have been flooded with ignorant people who make things up about talents, shit on idol culture/fanbases all with little understanding of the situation. If these people keep doing it the state of subreddit certainly isn't going to get better.
Do you think there’s a way to quell the discourse or is this just something the community will just have to deal with?
It's a mix of both. hololive is massive, so they are always going to get people throwing shit at them. Fans should seperate narratives from reality and not fuel them. [Suisei ](https://youtu.be/LrCABLI0qHE?si=7NV5X4xWwxb-YDCi)[has talked ](https://youtu.be/MrEiVj_8EIk?si=LsU5LZAvIL_0yeEf)[about this. ](https://youtu.be/ZGgA5yHh2Mw?si=kGjqcoMfpOUdMpsu) The community will always have people who say things like this yes, but these people are currently too high in number and will make a mess of every hololive space they go into. The situation on the subreddit can be fixed with proper moderation, or changing the subs nature to only include hololive. Neither of these are going to happen so for the foreseeable future it's not going to change.
Better moderation would probably be the best. Completely excluding half of the company’s talent from being talked about would probably just lead to more conflict
Man VTubers and their fans gotta be one of the cringest things on earth
cocks out for a-chan
I agree but it doesn't mean you should say it
why