I'd argue that Whalley is actually moving closer toward this 15 min city idea by increasing density. Taking down these single story establishments and replacing them with towers and mid rise mixed use buildings are a good thing imo.
The places you've listed aside from Canadian tire are definitely the kinds of places that mixed use buildings attract and their absence once they are gone is likely to be temporary.
I think we're still a couple years away from feeling the benefits of this, but I imagine similar to the success Brentwood is experiencing now, Whalley will find exponential success as well once density picks up.
What would you identify as success in this case?
The mall provides a common space for people to get together, shop, and eat. The Brentwood area has grocery stores, a Costco nearby, clinics, green spaces, accessible transit, etc. it's not perfect but they have almost everything a person would need within close proximity. Not to mention the safe feeling of the area.
Sure traffic sucks, but that's a reality of density, construction and being positioned right next to hwy 1
>What would you identify as success in this case?
>
>The mall provides a common space for people to get together, shop, and eat. The Brentwood area has grocery stores, a Costco nearby, clinics, green spaces, accessible transit, etc. it's not perfect but they have almost everything a person would need within close proximity. Not to mention the safe feeling of the area.
>
>Sure traffic sucks, but that's a reality of density, construction and being positioned right next to hwy 1
I think this is a fundamental misunderstand of the 15 minute city.
Jane Jacobs noted this in her book Death and Life of Great American cities how super tall buildings tend to result in a long term residential decline. Largely because its harder to get to know people around you and creates an unreasonable sense of fear because you don't know anyone, traffic and feeling overwhelmed. Finally small businesses tend to get priced out by the high rents.
15-minute city still needs human scale to keep residents living there. We used to have 15-minute cities. If you look pictures of cities that pre-date World War II, there are very few super tall buildings. This a neighbourhood in [Toronto](https://opentextbc.ca/postconfederation/wp-content/uploads/sites/104/2015/07/PretoriaDayCelebrations.jpg) per-automobile, this would be main commercial strip, while down the road you would have houses which looked like [this](https://oaa.on.ca/Assets/Common/Shared_Images/QPP/Cabbagetown,%20Toronto/AdobeStock_144474071.jpeg). You notice the area is dense but its not super tall. The way they achieved density was just building everything closer together. You don't feel as overwhelmed by the density. Plus rents tend to be lower so you see a lot more small and independent businesses rather than big box stores.
There very few surviving areas like this in North America. But in Europe, this how they build. They rarely build super tall buildings, but they have very dense cities. Good example here from [Manchester](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.453978,-2.2324534,3a,75y,4.81h,72.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFBkjxwEObMJK5BMX8PheUQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), its very low rise, but you can easily walk to either end of the street and get what you need or even better this in [Frankfurt](https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1606463,8.6403281,3a,75y,164.01h,97.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqHIFLRCAG592fyMUlq7gCg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) or this in [Tokyo](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8370149,139.6890701,3a,75y,68.37h,90.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdEPcEgqv75jnlsdLQlTBOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (yes those are SFHs jut not like the ones here).
Maybe they need to have more shops that are worth going to at the mall. It's tiny and I don't know why someone wouldn't just go to Metrotown or Coquitlam Center for a mall.
Dude you can read up on all the development they have planned for those areas. The amenities are not gone forever there is a tone of stuff in the works: http://surreycitycentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/City-Centre-Update-2023-06.pdf
What am I supposed to reading here as being meaningfully related to amenities? I'm really just seeing residential units, office space, and the kind of low-opportunity retail spaces that get filled with cellphone-case stores and chain cafes.
That’s a bit uncharitable. Whalley Station, Centre Block, and the Georgetown development that will replace the Canadian tire each have more than 20,000 sq. ft of retail space planned, including provisions for large anchor tenants. The Safeway will become the Civic District which has planned 477,000 sq. ft of retail including a replacement grocery store.
Many developments have daycare space put aside, and the Centre Block will include a big “institutional space”, whatever that will mean.
What I am worried about is that we’ll be loosing many of our unique local businesses, to be replaced mostly with chain stores. I also really don’t like that no one seems to be talking about nightlife.
My guess is that the Chuck Bailey expansion is meant to take the gym/activity load of the loss of the north Surrey rec centre, and the institutional space in the centre block will offer other non-sporty amenities. But they haven’t detailed what yet.
https://www.surrey.ca/sites/default/files/planning-reports/PLR_7920-0233-00_0.pdf
Hopefully they will commercialize the first 1 or 2 floors of the highrises they're prob planning to build. Or it could be a new commercial building with a giant save on under the building... i think they really wanna gentrify whalley so I don't think they wld get rid of space for potential businesses to set up shop in the future...
Restaurants wise, there will be more to come on the ground level of those highrises coming up along with offices and small shops. It will be quite walkable. Most people who don’t have a car and choose to live downtown have few reasons to shop at Canadian Tire. Smaller shops/grocers are more appropriate here imo.
Can I just say that Pho Tam was great but in my opinion they've been slacking lately...they aren't up to the standard they were at say, a year ago.
They've become so busy and popular, they can't keep up and some things are starting to slide.
I'm really hoping a few of those just relocate, the restaurants probably have much easier time finding locations available for them to move into.
I'm annoyed that there isn't much not-food stuff going into the new developments.
Have you looked at KG station area? There’s a bunch there now…also the the development next to holland park is going to have a “food hall” like the one going in at the Amazon building and Oakridge.
Oh def! I like the KG station area and I'm looking forward to Holland Commons. It did take the hub about a year to find it's footing once it was finished being built.
It's great for lunch or casual dinner (well I guess Ruex is there but it's focused on brunch) but it doesn't tick all the boxes and the mall keeps losing stores. Maybe it'll be better now that theres more density.
I think the whole area is going to be really nice in 5-10 years but I want it now
Whalley is undoubtedly becoming a more liveable community. It's cleaner than it was when I moved here six years ago. It feels safer and more amenities are arriving, thanks to a reduction in urban sprawl.
For those who mourn the loss of some of the stores, especially the larger box stores, this is a reality that's been in the offing since online shopping became a thing. Yes, some of the established restaurants are closing, but they can occupy retail spaces in new developments.
As for living without a car, higher density will result in more stores and amenities being located within walking distance. We've seen this at King George Hub.
It's all big box/strip mall stuff that's going. It's not really "walkable city" stuff. A 15 minute city probably doesn't include a 10 minute walk across a giant mostly empty parking lot.
sure, but the only thing moving *in* \- other than residential units - are small chain restaurants and stores. what's the point of having a walkable/"15 minute city" if there's nothing worth visiting?
I work in the Gateway Station tower building - have for past 8-9yrs or so.
the homeless camps in the alley beside food bank have been gone since before covid. there was shelter built for homeless people right next to the Gateway station. City Hall is there as well now. So is a lot of construction of high-rise.
We regularly walk to Central City mall now for lunch; passing right in front of the food bank.
So, yes, based on my personal experience, it has improved significantly.
Wait, Safeway and Save-On are basically at whole foods level pricing. And the prices are not justifiable at all. If you want decent prices, if you can call it that, then you want superstore, and no frills / Walmart if buying basic packaged stuff.
All the stuff on sale at Save-On is just past the expiration date lol!
I don’t miss Safeway at all.
Superstore has pretty much reached save on levels at this point. It's definitely not the savings it used to be. In fact for certain things like chicken it's way more expensive than save on.
I live just off 108 and Whalley blvd. The city just rezoned our property and the six neighbouring properties for condos to be built on. Somehow our house is listed as for sale with the other properties even though our landlord has no idea yet. We keep getting people from the property manager that is selling the properties, asking who our landlords are or if we could pass along a message. Yeah, sure, I'll get right on that. I have a three br rancher with a huge yard and detached workshop for $1600/month. Sure let me help you sell the property.
Pho69 is pretty good. I had lunch on their grand opening day. I pretty much enjoy living in the King George Hub neighborhood. We have Tim Hortons, Sushi Street, Starbucks, A&W, and Subway here.
I agree with OP.
What's the point of all this housing and "walkability" if everywhere you can shop and eat will be located in other neighborhoods.
It's commercial gentrification.
Crime-wise it has gotten better over the years. The 15 minute city idea is fine as long as there aren't any restrictions in movement and there's parking available for those with cars
I'd argue that Whalley is actually moving closer toward this 15 min city idea by increasing density. Taking down these single story establishments and replacing them with towers and mid rise mixed use buildings are a good thing imo. The places you've listed aside from Canadian tire are definitely the kinds of places that mixed use buildings attract and their absence once they are gone is likely to be temporary. I think we're still a couple years away from feeling the benefits of this, but I imagine similar to the success Brentwood is experiencing now, Whalley will find exponential success as well once density picks up.
Brentwood is hardly successful. The mall is pointless save for the movie theatre. Not to mention all the traffic on lougheed hwy.
What would you identify as success in this case? The mall provides a common space for people to get together, shop, and eat. The Brentwood area has grocery stores, a Costco nearby, clinics, green spaces, accessible transit, etc. it's not perfect but they have almost everything a person would need within close proximity. Not to mention the safe feeling of the area. Sure traffic sucks, but that's a reality of density, construction and being positioned right next to hwy 1
>What would you identify as success in this case? > >The mall provides a common space for people to get together, shop, and eat. The Brentwood area has grocery stores, a Costco nearby, clinics, green spaces, accessible transit, etc. it's not perfect but they have almost everything a person would need within close proximity. Not to mention the safe feeling of the area. > >Sure traffic sucks, but that's a reality of density, construction and being positioned right next to hwy 1 I think this is a fundamental misunderstand of the 15 minute city. Jane Jacobs noted this in her book Death and Life of Great American cities how super tall buildings tend to result in a long term residential decline. Largely because its harder to get to know people around you and creates an unreasonable sense of fear because you don't know anyone, traffic and feeling overwhelmed. Finally small businesses tend to get priced out by the high rents. 15-minute city still needs human scale to keep residents living there. We used to have 15-minute cities. If you look pictures of cities that pre-date World War II, there are very few super tall buildings. This a neighbourhood in [Toronto](https://opentextbc.ca/postconfederation/wp-content/uploads/sites/104/2015/07/PretoriaDayCelebrations.jpg) per-automobile, this would be main commercial strip, while down the road you would have houses which looked like [this](https://oaa.on.ca/Assets/Common/Shared_Images/QPP/Cabbagetown,%20Toronto/AdobeStock_144474071.jpeg). You notice the area is dense but its not super tall. The way they achieved density was just building everything closer together. You don't feel as overwhelmed by the density. Plus rents tend to be lower so you see a lot more small and independent businesses rather than big box stores. There very few surviving areas like this in North America. But in Europe, this how they build. They rarely build super tall buildings, but they have very dense cities. Good example here from [Manchester](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.453978,-2.2324534,3a,75y,4.81h,72.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFBkjxwEObMJK5BMX8PheUQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), its very low rise, but you can easily walk to either end of the street and get what you need or even better this in [Frankfurt](https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1606463,8.6403281,3a,75y,164.01h,97.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqHIFLRCAG592fyMUlq7gCg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) or this in [Tokyo](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8370149,139.6890701,3a,75y,68.37h,90.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdEPcEgqv75jnlsdLQlTBOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (yes those are SFHs jut not like the ones here).
Maybe they need to have more shops that are worth going to at the mall. It's tiny and I don't know why someone wouldn't just go to Metrotown or Coquitlam Center for a mall.
Dude you can read up on all the development they have planned for those areas. The amenities are not gone forever there is a tone of stuff in the works: http://surreycitycentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/City-Centre-Update-2023-06.pdf
What am I supposed to reading here as being meaningfully related to amenities? I'm really just seeing residential units, office space, and the kind of low-opportunity retail spaces that get filled with cellphone-case stores and chain cafes.
That’s a bit uncharitable. Whalley Station, Centre Block, and the Georgetown development that will replace the Canadian tire each have more than 20,000 sq. ft of retail space planned, including provisions for large anchor tenants. The Safeway will become the Civic District which has planned 477,000 sq. ft of retail including a replacement grocery store. Many developments have daycare space put aside, and the Centre Block will include a big “institutional space”, whatever that will mean. What I am worried about is that we’ll be loosing many of our unique local businesses, to be replaced mostly with chain stores. I also really don’t like that no one seems to be talking about nightlife.
My guess is that the Chuck Bailey expansion is meant to take the gym/activity load of the loss of the north Surrey rec centre, and the institutional space in the centre block will offer other non-sporty amenities. But they haven’t detailed what yet. https://www.surrey.ca/sites/default/files/planning-reports/PLR_7920-0233-00_0.pdf
Hopefully they will commercialize the first 1 or 2 floors of the highrises they're prob planning to build. Or it could be a new commercial building with a giant save on under the building... i think they really wanna gentrify whalley so I don't think they wld get rid of space for potential businesses to set up shop in the future...
Save on already moved down the street to the area near the skytrain station
Restaurants wise, there will be more to come on the ground level of those highrises coming up along with offices and small shops. It will be quite walkable. Most people who don’t have a car and choose to live downtown have few reasons to shop at Canadian Tire. Smaller shops/grocers are more appropriate here imo.
Wait … sushi and roll is being torn down???
They see me rolling they hatin
Can I just say that Pho Tam was great but in my opinion they've been slacking lately...they aren't up to the standard they were at say, a year ago. They've become so busy and popular, they can't keep up and some things are starting to slide.
I'm really hoping a few of those just relocate, the restaurants probably have much easier time finding locations available for them to move into. I'm annoyed that there isn't much not-food stuff going into the new developments.
Have you looked at KG station area? There’s a bunch there now…also the the development next to holland park is going to have a “food hall” like the one going in at the Amazon building and Oakridge.
Oh def! I like the KG station area and I'm looking forward to Holland Commons. It did take the hub about a year to find it's footing once it was finished being built. It's great for lunch or casual dinner (well I guess Ruex is there but it's focused on brunch) but it doesn't tick all the boxes and the mall keeps losing stores. Maybe it'll be better now that theres more density. I think the whole area is going to be really nice in 5-10 years but I want it now
Whalley is undoubtedly becoming a more liveable community. It's cleaner than it was when I moved here six years ago. It feels safer and more amenities are arriving, thanks to a reduction in urban sprawl. For those who mourn the loss of some of the stores, especially the larger box stores, this is a reality that's been in the offing since online shopping became a thing. Yes, some of the established restaurants are closing, but they can occupy retail spaces in new developments. As for living without a car, higher density will result in more stores and amenities being located within walking distance. We've seen this at King George Hub.
It's all big box/strip mall stuff that's going. It's not really "walkable city" stuff. A 15 minute city probably doesn't include a 10 minute walk across a giant mostly empty parking lot.
sure, but the only thing moving *in* \- other than residential units - are small chain restaurants and stores. what's the point of having a walkable/"15 minute city" if there's nothing worth visiting?
Bubble 88 is closing down??? Noooooooooooooo
Quality had gone down hill for years. Used to be my favorite
As a cyclist, I love all the bike infrastructure going in.
As a crackhead, the more bikes there are, the more it'll boost crackheads economy ( ͡👁️ ͜ʖ ͡👁️)
I work in the Gateway Station tower building - have for past 8-9yrs or so. the homeless camps in the alley beside food bank have been gone since before covid. there was shelter built for homeless people right next to the Gateway station. City Hall is there as well now. So is a lot of construction of high-rise. We regularly walk to Central City mall now for lunch; passing right in front of the food bank. So, yes, based on my personal experience, it has improved significantly.
They'll probably be replaced by high end grocery stores with prices above safeway and save on
Wait, Safeway and Save-On are basically at whole foods level pricing. And the prices are not justifiable at all. If you want decent prices, if you can call it that, then you want superstore, and no frills / Walmart if buying basic packaged stuff. All the stuff on sale at Save-On is just past the expiration date lol! I don’t miss Safeway at all.
Superstore has pretty much reached save on levels at this point. It's definitely not the savings it used to be. In fact for certain things like chicken it's way more expensive than save on.
Don't touch Fresgo Inn.
The restaurant sure, but that building? Smashy smashy time.
>going to be nothing but condos with very little when it comes to commercial properties And crackheads! Don't forget about the crackheads!
I live just off 108 and Whalley blvd. The city just rezoned our property and the six neighbouring properties for condos to be built on. Somehow our house is listed as for sale with the other properties even though our landlord has no idea yet. We keep getting people from the property manager that is selling the properties, asking who our landlords are or if we could pass along a message. Yeah, sure, I'll get right on that. I have a three br rancher with a huge yard and detached workshop for $1600/month. Sure let me help you sell the property.
Pho69 is pretty good. I had lunch on their grand opening day. I pretty much enjoy living in the King George Hub neighborhood. We have Tim Hortons, Sushi Street, Starbucks, A&W, and Subway here.
It would be even better if everything there costed 4.69
I hate what is happening to surrey!!! It used to be a lot prettier 40 years ago!
No. Surrey is hell on earth
Surrey won't be a 15 min city. But they really should include some stores in the first floors of these new buildings
every tower has multiple commercial spaces
Ooh yay another dentist coming our way!
the ones across from Holland Park don't. other than the hub,which ones do?
That was the best Vietnamese place :( Been there forever! Why...
I agree with OP. What's the point of all this housing and "walkability" if everywhere you can shop and eat will be located in other neighborhoods. It's commercial gentrification.
Crime-wise it has gotten better over the years. The 15 minute city idea is fine as long as there aren't any restrictions in movement and there's parking available for those with cars
Rip An Pho such a fucking gem :'(