Irritating as hell when people do that.
You, the Tank, want us, the DPS, to kill shit? Then stop running around like an idiot and make our jobs easier so things die quickly.
It's very simple.
Yep. It's the recommended strategy for soloing Palace of the Dead and similar dungeons even-be a ranged DPS, pull a mob or three into a room you've cleared as 'safe,' and run in circles until everything is dead.
Also, I wish it happened more often when hunt trains go up against that tree in Garlemald. Having half of the train frozen costs more time than the kiting does.
For that one brief specific moment when you kite, yeah that makes you evade some damage. But eventually that ain't a gain on the long term when you consider how your teammates can't effectively mow down the constantly moving mobs so they won't die out asap.
The only way you can kite in this game is by using sprint or the prng role action that causes heavy. I doubt the tank was actually able to reduce damage while running around, and even if they were, itās outweighed by the fact it made mowing down the trash more difficult for the rest of the party.
This is just wrong, lots of mobs you can kite a ton and take very very little damage. Ive solo'd some arr dungeons on mch just by running away from the mobs/bosses while hitting them and they just hardly hit you.
Side note, no clue why im -47 LMAO.
On one hand, you absolutely should be doing DPS on top of healing, but on the other hand, you also shouldnāt be letting the tank get so low that they die because they didnāt have any mitigations up on the boss. Mitigations are supposed to make your job as the healer easier or allow the tank to survive otherwise deadly pulls. They shouldnāt be what lets them survive against a boss. I get the mentality that āas long as nobody is dying, youāre doing fineā, but I really donāt think you should even be playing around with that mentality. The healers are effectively glorified babysitters. Memes aside, itās up to you to adjust to how the rest of the party is playing. If the tank is being obnoxious and isnāt using mitigations, itās up to you to heal them more. If the tank wants you to focus on healing, then thatās what you should do. I donāt think itās really fair for you, as the healer, to be telling the tank how they should be tanking because you want to be able to do more DPSing. On the other hand, I think itās more fair for the tank to ask you to focus on healing because itās kinda your job to support the rest of your party. Granted, youāre not a slave and can play how you want, but if you arenāt working with the rest of the team, it isnāt gonna go well.
The problem with this post is that we have literally no context as to what actually happened during the run. Itās possible that you were doing fine and they were overreacting. Itās also possible that you were doing kinda bad and that the entire party had to adjust to how you were playing, which is never something you want to have to do with a healer.
"only started playing a month ago" And you're already holy spamming, as a WHM player this brings a tear to my eye. I am very happy to see a sprout actually using their DPS buttons.
The only hit point that matters is the last one. If people arenāt dead, youāre doing fine. Pushing your damage buttons makes the pull go by faster, and the sooner mobs die the sooner the tank stops taking damage!
This comment right here. I main tank, if I don't die (regardless of HP %) I can't complain.
Unless of course your one of my mates and the healer then I will shite talk every moment of the dungeon if I am below 99% HP.
This is the way. The only time healers are to blame fir not healing enough while your snuggly over 1 hp, is with friends. And most of the time, they'll fire back at your squishy tank ass immediately.
I done something similar this a couple months ago, but it was the other way around. Was tanking 89 dungeon with a couple friends and they were shit talking me the whole time. So when we get to the very tanky adds before the first boss, I pop bolide and click it off as soon as they spawn in, instantly died. They lost it and I started giving them shit for not healing me up and just letting me die. Lol.
Someone I used to raid with back in ShB had a Bolide macro that said "Want to see a healer have a heart attack? { Superbolide }!"
One day I prepped a macro that said something like "Want to see a tank sweat? { Jeopardy timer music }" and the next time I saw that Bolide macro when we were doing some random content as a group (so, y'know, not in raid) I hit it, then waited until Bolide was _almost_ gone before hitting him with Benediction. ;)
When my friends do that, I find it's the perfect time to start quoting the Josh Stryfe Hayes anime healers vs MMO healers video at them. ;)
"You're all sacks of hit points, and I'm God. _Never forget that_."
Exactly, I also main tanks (esp drk, the squishiest tank), and the only healer I ever bitch at is my partner who mains astro. Ofc he knows im bugging him and he also will bug me for any messup, that's just how we push each other to improve.
When tanking, it's an instant comm if the healer lets me drop below 50% before even looking at my blue ass. Extra points if I'm WAR and they trust me to heal myself. Every time I pop BW and get a bene at the same time, I cry.
_Moreover_, it is actually easier (and more efficient) to heal less often, though I grant that isn't necessarily intuitively obvious to non-healers who may panic at the sight of a low HP bar.
But if I'm a WHM and heal the tank every time they hit 80% of their HP, there's a decent chance I run out of kit somewhere and resort to spamming Cure II. Which is in fact what I see many inexperienced healers do; they feel like they _have_ to constantly heal because they start to struggle and run low on MP, etc.
Conversely, if I let the tank drop to 10% and then Benediction them, I have healed as much damage as I would have in 4-5 heals in "dutifully never letting the tank's health get below 80%" healer mode, all in a single OGCD, and have plenty of kit (and MP) left for whatever damage comes next.
I mean, I dunno that I recommend newer, inexperienced healers let the tank drop to _10%_ HP; mistakes happen when you're learning, plus this game's netcode is mildly cursed. And "how low should you go" is, to some extent, dependent on "what part of my kit is currently off cool down."
But, say, 30-40% as a starting place? Especially in average dungeon content? Absolutely doable... and when I convinced one healspamming WHM to try things that way, they admitted that to their surprise they found it _less_ stressful to heal that way _because they weren't running out of stuff to heal with_.
ĀÆ\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Meh on my SGE, you're getting a heal at full health with a shield , and as soon as that shield is gone, you're getting another. Gimme those toxicon stacks!
Shielding someone during combat for the Toxikon stack is a dps loss, it's always better to Dosis/Dyskrasia instead. If they'll survive without a shield, the shield is unnecessary, and with the amount of ocgds Sage has in its kit, they usually are.
Oh, definitely; different healers have different levels of "where do I do things, and how do I do them." As SGE, I agree that I definitely want all the Addersting I can get for Toxicon during dungeon trash pulls!
But I feel at least _some_ part of it holds true for all healers.
After all, an inexperienced SGE who's used all their Addersgall charges panic-healing the tank as soon as they have a even a scratch and who has now started spamming normal Diagnosis to try to top them off is probably not a happy or stress-free SGE.
Anything else aside, I'm sure many people here (me included) would be willing to give you genuine advice on SGE if we know what you're struggling with.
It used to be on PLD, thank god it isn't anymore.
Doing less damage with Spirits Within because you weren't at 100% HP was NOT fun for anyone involved.
Oh God, thanks for reminding me about that. I used to remember saying "Because I'm not full, SpW will not hit at full strength... Too bad!" In reference to that one video about valve programmers struggling with their spaghetti
If a healer can keep me on death's door while doing damage and not actually letting me die, they're fantastic. Tanks like this person give the rest of us a bad name.
I had a friend that did this as a tank, so i as whm, blew all my resources instantly to keep them at full health, ran out, then let them die. When asked why i replied "i blew my resources keep ling you at 'comfortable health'", they finally settled for being fine with 50% hp
snowcloak can be a bit rough with big pulls but like if the tank didnāt die youre absolutely fine :) some tanks are just weird about having their hp below 70% i guess
Only times you can worry at being below that is in Quarn as a bee will kill you. Often without notice due to shitty netcode.
And when you have doom.
That's about it.
That said if tank is dying and your magic is high you are a shitty healer. Being having those in Holminster switch. Used to be all sch where great. Now all sch are shit at that dungeon. no healing or shields at all. And their magic bar never lowered.
A first timer being a god right out the gate is a once in a lifetime rarity, you're going places and will excel, i would love you to be my healer or cohealer in raids
āI canāt stand stillā¦ā
LoLā¦ as a tank, theyāre not supposed to do that and eat all the enemy telegraphs!
But theyāre also not supposed to run around the room kiting the mobs (Iām assuming thatās what they did here) like a dizzy cockroach, it just makes the run harder for everyone else! š¤¦š»āāļø
A simple step to the side to avoid the enemiesās telegraphs wouldāve made wonders.
Kiting isn't really a viable alternative in this game. Especially in an instanced dungeon. Tanks that do this are stupid. Unless it's to avoid an AoE or get into place of mechanics, plant your ass
I can think of exactly 1 use for kiting. And it's in The Unending Coils of Bahamut Ultimate. If your cotank dies in P1/2 before a tank swap to the Vuln buster. You can sprint away and mit the buster during the cast bar, to avoid 1/2 auto attacks to give healers time to fix the issue.
Oh I bet if you listen carefully, somewhere there's somebody who's complaining that sage is not a real healer.
>!And they're right, we're a f* laser bursting machine!<
As a suggestion I'd say start healing when people are about at half hp, but you can push them a bit lower at the end of the pull.
Otherwise as others have said you do more damage > mobs die faster > Tank takes less damage ;D
It also depends on the heal you're planning to use - Essential Dignity is best used below 30%, and Benediction as low as possible. Best thing is planning ahead for which heals you want to use next and looking for a situation that maximizes their value. Mitigation, regen, heal boosters you can toss early, while big chonky heals and shields can wait for lower HP so they're not wasted. And yeah if you're only able to hard cast Cure II then half HP is good to account for the cast time.
Best take into account server tick. The info shown is delayed so 9 of 10 when you play chicken with benediction the tank will die. 25% is usually fine 10% is not. One exception is the bees at Quarn. Those suckers will ignore armor and hit you for 75% at times.
A healer's job is to keep you alive, not to keep you at 100% hp. Your tank was an idiot. A good healer can contribute 25% of party damage, that is a lot.
In a dungeon, yes. It's not often it happens, but it can and does if the healer is good. If a healer is doing 25% of party damage in a boss fight, that's 7 people with a lot of issues.
Then what are the DoT, Art of War, Gravity, and Holy supposed to be, if not for BIIIG NUMBARS (and for the WHM Glam to be \*stunning\*)?
(Sorry, don't know what SGE's AoE is :()
- "Are you dead / did you die?"
- "No"
- "Then im doing my job, this conversation ends here, because I cant be bothered to argue with someone who evidently hasnt made any effort to understand this game and the basics of their role"
yeah, this guy is being a tool for no reason. you should always be contributing to damage unless things go sideways. i donāt know what class youāre playing, but as a whm, abilities like assize, dia, glare, etc. are there for a reason - to be used! youāre doing fine.
im not saying anything that hasn't already been said here, but for your own sanity, don't EVER listen to anyone who tell you not to dps. even with your limited options, you can still do dmg that is almost if not comparable to a dps. ideally as a healer, the less healing you HAVE to do, the better. this looks different for each class but the more dmg you do, the faster the fight ends, which is its own kind of mitigation. and your contribution isnt miniscule, it's almost a quarter of the party's damage, so for the love of god do NOT stop dpsing.
so long as the tank is using their kit and isn't dead, then you're doing it right. holy spam 4 life.
I'll be honest, outside of Mit usage, I don't pay much attention to my HP. I just live in a blissful certainty that so long as I'm still up, the healer's got it all covered. If you can keep me up while blasting away, then all the better.
Pretty much how I vibe as well.
I'm still alive, got the mits going and I assume all is well. If I die, my first thought is what did I screw up, not why wasn't my healer healing me.
Now, if I start to see a pattern of no heals going out or people not getting topped off, that's different. But usually if I'm alive, we're golden.
Tanks have mitigation/healing/invuln buttons so healers can contribute to damage, healing as necessary. If all a healer does is heal in this game, the tank has a bunch of useless buttons now, things take longer to die, which means more healingā¦ you are doing it right, you are just green DPS
Sorry I didn't check reddit, i was gaming. And yea it's very shitty. I thought it was a joke? Like Jocat is amazing, surely there must be something that was..misinterpreted to get the crowds riled, but he literally made a song saying he likes women.
A song he originally sang on a stream that was raising money for a Trans support charity.
This man is intentionally trying to torpedo your learning experience. Healers are meant to balance healing and damage. Healers are designed around being able to, and DOING DPS when nobody is under imminent fatal threat. The only point of HP that matters is the last one. Being alive is a binary. You are living or you are dead. Absolutely keep doing DPS so long as you can manage to avoid letting the HP bar read as [0]
So if someone I know is tanking and I'm healing I always play "how low can you go" and try and get them as close to dying as possible before healing them. (With randoms too, but typically not as low as friends I've queued with).
Being a glare mage into one month of playing is absolutely fantastic, good on you.
Idiot tank running around as if kiting mobs stops damage. They speed up so they can hit you. This is why melee has a hard time when a tank decides "Fuck it, we WoW now" and tries to chain pull while something is still alive.
Tank was an idiot. Keep doing damage while healing. As long as the tank doesn't die and the DPS doesn't die to a roomwide you had ample time to prepare for, you're doing your job.
Kiting does stop/slow damage considerably. But you never want to do it when your healer is alive. Itās a last resort you can do if the healer goes down. It does actually work though on most mob packs. The mobs will not hit you as much if youāre moving and not at all if sprint is up for the most part (this is why we say sprint is mitigation when youāre pulling). Though again this should not be done at all unless the healer is dead or if you need to give them an extra second or two to get a hardcast heal out.
Unless you're the only one alive then you should sit still period and if you have to do otherwise then the groups absolutely garbage. Kiting is really only used in solo content like deep dungeons, nowhere else should it be used or have to be used.
That is basically what I said. The post I responded to said it didnāt affect damage going out when it actually does but to not do it unless itās needed.
As a Crystal player, this honestly embarrasses me. Healers should be dps'ing, and as long as the tank stays alive, then everything is fine. Tanks don't have to stay at 70% hp at all times. The more dps everyone is doing, the quicker everything dies and the more resources tanks and healers save in the long run. The longer they take to die, the more stressful it's going to be for heals and tanks because they start running out of cooldowns.
The Tank is honestly an idiot for thinking that moving around causes mobs to miss their attacks. They're already locked on to you no matter the position you're in. It's only prudent to move around like a haphazard explosive barrel when there are windup attacks that do more damage than autos. In any case OP you're in the green with me as a tank main, you're justified. Keep it up later into the game you got this š
What a jerk. By the way, you can report him for that "worst healer" comment; GMs tend to listen when people decide to be shitlords about other peoples' performances in duties.
If you don't know how;
`System - > Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment`
Fill out the panel as best as you can, be very specific, make a note of how it made you feel, etc.
Wasn't there a whole big deal made during EW about how telling someone else how to play was now a reportable offense?
This guy would absolutely have been reported by me.
If they said they're new to tanking and easily spooked I'd try and make them feel more confident by healing more than needed, but *only* healing? Lol nah.
Classic, idk why people act like this. The healer job is to support the party, not only braindead heal. If they want that, find another game because it literally makes no sense in this game.
Honestly, that take looks like it can safely and consistently go right into the trash. You're gonna get a lot of those as you play this game. As the others here have said, you're doing a good job. In the future, say "Thank you for the suggestion, I am taking it into consideration" and then continue to carry on as normal. (Hells, make that a macro.)
or, like, report that guy for enforcing a playstyle. Probs won't result in much but it's cathartic.
If tank (and by extension everyone else) not dead, healer did job successfully.
Unless people stand in puddles for no reason and then die. That's also on them.
If you're playing healer and you're not giving your tank anxiety for knocking on deaths door, are you even really playing healer? I say this as a sge and war player xd
There's not a single type of content in this game that will ever justify for a healer to focus solely on healing, you are expected to do damage in all of them, from the easiest gildhest to the hardest ultimate, the dps contribution from healer is counted for the dps check and you also need to pull your weight in that sense. Are there moments when you will need to prioritize healing over damage? Absolutely, and if you don't the party will most likely wipe, but after the moment passes you need to continue keeping the balance between dpsing and healing.
Also, as a fellow whm main, I'm happy to know that you spam holy on a trash mob when healing isn't required, there are many of us that don't do it for some reason. Like people said before me, the only hp that matters is the last one, and if they didn't die (from lack of healing), you did a perfect job :)
When I started playing healer, I realized there was usually downtime where nobody needed a heal, so I'd do DPS instead. I had just come over from WoW where that wasn't something you could really do, so I was very surprised and pleased.
But I got yelled at and kicked from groups. A lot. Because people died? Nope. For not topping people to 100% at all times. If I didn't have Regen and Medica 2 on 100% uptime, my tanks would start having a fit. If I was hitting Holy during trash packs..."STOP FUCKING HOLYING AND HEAL." So, okay, I'm just a spout and these are seasoned players, mentors even, so they must know what they're talking about.
Anyway, long story short, they were wrong. Never trust a mentor. AMAB amirite?
i kind of want to agree entirely tbh. iāve only unlocked a handful on dungeons and iāve been yelled at a lot too. i donāt really know where or if iām going wrong. nobody dies, itās always just about healing. like yeah, your health dropped below 99%, so what? itās pretty discouraging and iāve thought about putting in some time to levelling another role so i stop getting yelled at
As someone who played healer for years now, people are absolutely morons.
One of my favorite things about scholar was a skill called excognition, which would pop automatically once the tank dropped below 50% hp and heal them basically back up to near-full.
So I would drop the excogition on the tank, and start DPSing until that excogition popped.
It's a heal right? Sure it's a delayed heal, but it's not my fault if the tank's such a baby they cant handle dropping below 90% hp.
I would always tell them to just cool it and wait, but "I have trust issues with duty finder healers" was the number 1 response to me begging them to let excog pop so the heal is actually used, rather than... use clemency for a heal when they could be using holy spirit for... also a heal, as well as dps to kill the mobs faster.
A startlingly high number of players are morons.
honestly i've rarely run into that and i play heal constantly. if nobody is dying then of course fuck those tanks and yes only the last hp matters but a lot of times i'll keep the tank at least above 50% not because i NEED to but because it helps instill confidence in the tank so they don't start single pulling or some other bs
As both tank and healer, i have the same stance of āif the heal can damage, and tank doesnāt die, pull biggerā. The yo-yo of life is the best feeling. Tanks have invuln to survive tough bits and nearly all healers can burst heal them back to full within a gcd or two. WHM can do it in a single oGCD. Let the yo-yo continue!
Back when I first started learning how to play healer, I got cover Tom Tara deepcroftin roulette, I got a tank that was single pulling from the very start so I only had to cast three heels that dungeon, The rest of my cast we're all DPS. Nothing was said all dungeon until after the last boss was dead. All he said was worst healer ever. Confronted him a couple days later and he denied saying that, and said he must have been drunk
This guy is completely wrong. In FF it is expected the healers do damage, everything is focused around that. I had a group try and kick me once because I was doing damage (they didn't die at all or get close).
My wife is my usual healer and she's very good at it. I can't tell you how often she'll wait until I'm in the double digits before she heals me. If they live through the encounter and you didn't have to res them you're fine.
I play tanks and I like it when healer contributes to DPS, it makes the killing faster and keeps me in focus to use tank kits to its optimum. Also giving the feeling of playing tank for the purpose a tank is there for, which according to me is taking in unavoidable damage, avoid dumb movements/ positions that makes it difficult for rest of the team to play at their best, deal damage, good use of mits/ self heals and more importantly always trusting your healer that they have your back and focusing on your role.
The mindset i have as a tank when entering a dungeon is that if i didnāt need any of healers healing abilities then I have done my role as tank correctly and hopefully performed well for myself and for the team.
donāt worry about that tank, that tank should realise that healers donāt exist just to heal.
As others have said, definitely be DPSing as healer
Is the party alive? Good, you're doing your job properly
More damage = quicker mob deaths = less need for heals
This tank is just salty.cos he cant do his job right
First rule of tanking: trust your healer.
I had a similar situation in leveling roulette, I was tanking and no one was hitting the switches (tonberry dungeon hard) and I asked "why isnt anyone hitting the switches" to which the dps replied "why arnt you". I replied with because im pulling and tanking, cant really stop to hit a switch, and they said "but are you?"
It took me a while playing tank before i started to not care about my health so much, what did it for me actually was playing healer.. then I understood better their perspective.. I would always let the tanks drop low to do more dps.. and not give them heals or just let hots get them up etc. so its fair to assume other healers would do the same to me when im tanking.
But nowdays its like.. As long as i am alive and rotating mits properly as needed my HP bar can do whatever it wants. thats the healers problem not mine '/shrug
As long as you're alive it doesn't matter what percentage you're on. If you can keep them alive AND dps at the same time after a month of playing I'd say you're a great healer and doing much better than a lot of sprout healers, this tank doesn't know what they're talking about and think they're better because they're higher level than you
Was the tank new as well? As you get into higher levels healing to max is not necessary at all. With WHM itās a real pain since they donāt have many ogcds either but if the tank was new it could be a comfort thing really. Some people learn better when they arenāt panicking about when their next heal is coming, something about not working as well under pressure. Him ārunning aroundā is a pretty strong indicator that thatās probably what he was experiencing. Anyway this is under the assumption the tank WAS new, it wonāt hurt your group to give little more healing if it makes it smoother for them, and you can offer the perspective that if you do dps it moves along faster, which helps them too, while offering to heal a little more or wean them off. I personally switched off WHM to SGE because thereās really no penalty for healing and it helps me keep my MP if I DO overheal. I often offer the perception that it hurts more to argue with a person who needs the extra room then it does to press an extra button, and take issue with the people who insist they need to āget over itā. When I was learning the game I read all my tooltips and in the heat of the moment I made the mistake of misunderstanding what cure 3 and believed was just an upgraded cure 2 because I didnāt immediately understand that I wasnāt supposed to be identifying how they were alike, and got confused by the description.
just to be clear, he didnt die once apart from the last boss where he didnt give himself any mitigations
Well yeah, he had that bonus mitigation from running around like a headless chicken (somehow?)
Irritating as hell when people do that. You, the Tank, want us, the DPS, to kill shit? Then stop running around like an idiot and make our jobs easier so things die quickly. It's very simple.
Kiting is a wow thing. Sir, that does not work here /sip. š¤£
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I stand corrected
Yep. It's the recommended strategy for soloing Palace of the Dead and similar dungeons even-be a ranged DPS, pull a mob or three into a room you've cleared as 'safe,' and run in circles until everything is dead.
Also, I wish it happened more often when hunt trains go up against that tree in Garlemald. Having half of the train frozen costs more time than the kiting does.
Kiting the mobs is a legitimate way to reduce damage, especially useful for arr dungeons as phys ranged or when a healer dies somehow.
For that one brief specific moment when you kite, yeah that makes you evade some damage. But eventually that ain't a gain on the long term when you consider how your teammates can't effectively mow down the constantly moving mobs so they won't die out asap.
The only way you can kite in this game is by using sprint or the prng role action that causes heavy. I doubt the tank was actually able to reduce damage while running around, and even if they were, itās outweighed by the fact it made mowing down the trash more difficult for the rest of the party.
This is just wrong, lots of mobs you can kite a ton and take very very little damage. Ive solo'd some arr dungeons on mch just by running away from the mobs/bosses while hitting them and they just hardly hit you. Side note, no clue why im -47 LMAO.
On one hand, you absolutely should be doing DPS on top of healing, but on the other hand, you also shouldnāt be letting the tank get so low that they die because they didnāt have any mitigations up on the boss. Mitigations are supposed to make your job as the healer easier or allow the tank to survive otherwise deadly pulls. They shouldnāt be what lets them survive against a boss. I get the mentality that āas long as nobody is dying, youāre doing fineā, but I really donāt think you should even be playing around with that mentality. The healers are effectively glorified babysitters. Memes aside, itās up to you to adjust to how the rest of the party is playing. If the tank is being obnoxious and isnāt using mitigations, itās up to you to heal them more. If the tank wants you to focus on healing, then thatās what you should do. I donāt think itās really fair for you, as the healer, to be telling the tank how they should be tanking because you want to be able to do more DPSing. On the other hand, I think itās more fair for the tank to ask you to focus on healing because itās kinda your job to support the rest of your party. Granted, youāre not a slave and can play how you want, but if you arenāt working with the rest of the team, it isnāt gonna go well. The problem with this post is that we have literally no context as to what actually happened during the run. Itās possible that you were doing fine and they were overreacting. Itās also possible that you were doing kinda bad and that the entire party had to adjust to how you were playing, which is never something you want to have to do with a healer.
"only started playing a month ago" And you're already holy spamming, as a WHM player this brings a tear to my eye. I am very happy to see a sprout actually using their DPS buttons.
The only hit point that matters is the last one. If people arenāt dead, youāre doing fine. Pushing your damage buttons makes the pull go by faster, and the sooner mobs die the sooner the tank stops taking damage!
This comment right here. I main tank, if I don't die (regardless of HP %) I can't complain. Unless of course your one of my mates and the healer then I will shite talk every moment of the dungeon if I am below 99% HP.
This is the way. The only time healers are to blame fir not healing enough while your snuggly over 1 hp, is with friends. And most of the time, they'll fire back at your squishy tank ass immediately.
I done something similar this a couple months ago, but it was the other way around. Was tanking 89 dungeon with a couple friends and they were shit talking me the whole time. So when we get to the very tanky adds before the first boss, I pop bolide and click it off as soon as they spawn in, instantly died. They lost it and I started giving them shit for not healing me up and just letting me die. Lol.
Someone I used to raid with back in ShB had a Bolide macro that said "Want to see a healer have a heart attack? { Superbolide }!" One day I prepped a macro that said something like "Want to see a tank sweat? { Jeopardy timer music }" and the next time I saw that Bolide macro when we were doing some random content as a group (so, y'know, not in raid) I hit it, then waited until Bolide was _almost_ gone before hitting him with Benediction. ;)
This is genius im stealing these macros if yall permit
Mine says "A test of your reflexes!" And pauses one second before bolide and then another pause to remove the debuff.
Ah the good old test of healer reflexes.
When my friends do that, I find it's the perfect time to start quoting the Josh Stryfe Hayes anime healers vs MMO healers video at them. ;) "You're all sacks of hit points, and I'm God. _Never forget that_."
Exactly, I also main tanks (esp drk, the squishiest tank), and the only healer I ever bitch at is my partner who mains astro. Ofc he knows im bugging him and he also will bug me for any messup, that's just how we push each other to improve.
This is the kind of tank I need to practice healing with!
When tanking, it's an instant comm if the healer lets me drop below 50% before even looking at my blue ass. Extra points if I'm WAR and they trust me to heal myself. Every time I pop BW and get a bene at the same time, I cry.
This is the way
_Moreover_, it is actually easier (and more efficient) to heal less often, though I grant that isn't necessarily intuitively obvious to non-healers who may panic at the sight of a low HP bar. But if I'm a WHM and heal the tank every time they hit 80% of their HP, there's a decent chance I run out of kit somewhere and resort to spamming Cure II. Which is in fact what I see many inexperienced healers do; they feel like they _have_ to constantly heal because they start to struggle and run low on MP, etc. Conversely, if I let the tank drop to 10% and then Benediction them, I have healed as much damage as I would have in 4-5 heals in "dutifully never letting the tank's health get below 80%" healer mode, all in a single OGCD, and have plenty of kit (and MP) left for whatever damage comes next. I mean, I dunno that I recommend newer, inexperienced healers let the tank drop to _10%_ HP; mistakes happen when you're learning, plus this game's netcode is mildly cursed. And "how low should you go" is, to some extent, dependent on "what part of my kit is currently off cool down." But, say, 30-40% as a starting place? Especially in average dungeon content? Absolutely doable... and when I convinced one healspamming WHM to try things that way, they admitted that to their surprise they found it _less_ stressful to heal that way _because they weren't running out of stuff to heal with_. ĀÆ\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Meh on my SGE, you're getting a heal at full health with a shield , and as soon as that shield is gone, you're getting another. Gimme those toxicon stacks!
Shielding someone during combat for the Toxikon stack is a dps loss, it's always better to Dosis/Dyskrasia instead. If they'll survive without a shield, the shield is unnecessary, and with the amount of ocgds Sage has in its kit, they usually are.
Oh, definitely; different healers have different levels of "where do I do things, and how do I do them." As SGE, I agree that I definitely want all the Addersting I can get for Toxicon during dungeon trash pulls! But I feel at least _some_ part of it holds true for all healers. After all, an inexperienced SGE who's used all their Addersgall charges panic-healing the tank as soon as they have a even a scratch and who has now started spamming normal Diagnosis to try to top them off is probably not a happy or stress-free SGE.
That's me because I struggle on SGE lol.
Anything else aside, I'm sure many people here (me included) would be willing to give you genuine advice on SGE if we know what you're struggling with.
I appreciate that. I think it's not my first job and I get it for sure but I don't like the way it feels I guess.
You're playing it wrong
HP is a resource not a power amplifier.
It used to be on PLD, thank god it isn't anymore. Doing less damage with Spirits Within because you weren't at 100% HP was NOT fun for anyone involved.
Oh God, thanks for reminding me about that. I used to remember saying "Because I'm not full, SpW will not hit at full strength... Too bad!" In reference to that one video about valve programmers struggling with their spaghetti
If a healer can keep me on death's door while doing damage and not actually letting me die, they're fantastic. Tanks like this person give the rest of us a bad name.
I love when the healers let me dance with death without dying.
It keeps tanks on their toes!
Your HP bar is my Limbo stick.
Unless you are DRK, then you hate when you pressed living dead and they don't let you die.
This makes me feel better, because I'm REALLY good at doing this when I SCH, haha.
I had a friend that did this as a tank, so i as whm, blew all my resources instantly to keep them at full health, ran out, then let them die. When asked why i replied "i blew my resources keep ling you at 'comfortable health'", they finally settled for being fine with 50% hp
Probably gotten too used to bloodwhetting on war
I barley heal WAR if they are my tank. Regen, shields and aquaveil
oh and i shouldāve said, i was on snowcloak for the first time playing white mage
snowcloak can be a bit rough with big pulls but like if the tank didnāt die youre absolutely fine :) some tanks are just weird about having their hp below 70% i guess
Only times you can worry at being below that is in Quarn as a bee will kill you. Often without notice due to shitty netcode. And when you have doom. That's about it. That said if tank is dying and your magic is high you are a shitty healer. Being having those in Holminster switch. Used to be all sch where great. Now all sch are shit at that dungeon. no healing or shields at all. And their magic bar never lowered.
A first timer being a god right out the gate is a once in a lifetime rarity, you're going places and will excel, i would love you to be my healer or cohealer in raids
āI canāt stand stillā¦ā LoLā¦ as a tank, theyāre not supposed to do that and eat all the enemy telegraphs! But theyāre also not supposed to run around the room kiting the mobs (Iām assuming thatās what they did here) like a dizzy cockroach, it just makes the run harder for everyone else! š¤¦š»āāļø A simple step to the side to avoid the enemiesās telegraphs wouldāve made wonders.
Kiting isn't really a viable alternative in this game. Especially in an instanced dungeon. Tanks that do this are stupid. Unless it's to avoid an AoE or get into place of mechanics, plant your ass
kiting is a great alternative >!if the tank dies!<
For the party members left, yes. But as long as the tank is alive, they just need to step out of the enemiesās telegraphs.
I can think of exactly 1 use for kiting. And it's in The Unending Coils of Bahamut Ultimate. If your cotank dies in P1/2 before a tank swap to the Vuln buster. You can sprint away and mit the buster during the cast bar, to avoid 1/2 auto attacks to give healers time to fix the issue.
Kitings good when you're on a solo run in deep dungeons as well, if you're a ranged or caster class at least
Wait until the tank learn about sage existence.
Or AST's ED
"WHY ARE YOU DPSING AND NOT HEALING" "...Have you considered the reason why I gave you kardia?" Imagine getting mad about a constant regen effect
Oh I bet if you listen carefully, somewhere there's somebody who's complaining that sage is not a real healer. >!And they're right, we're a f* laser bursting machine!<
Pew pew pew!
Thats when my god sage friend takes it off and yeets it onto the black mage
Definitely a god tier SGE power move. Let the tank get rabid about not having kardia, then
If you werenāt meant to dps, they wouldnāt give you dps abilities.
If you weren't meant to spam Cure 1, they wouldn't give you Free Cure procs /s
As a suggestion I'd say start healing when people are about at half hp, but you can push them a bit lower at the end of the pull. Otherwise as others have said you do more damage > mobs die faster > Tank takes less damage ;D
It also depends on the heal you're planning to use - Essential Dignity is best used below 30%, and Benediction as low as possible. Best thing is planning ahead for which heals you want to use next and looking for a situation that maximizes their value. Mitigation, regen, heal boosters you can toss early, while big chonky heals and shields can wait for lower HP so they're not wasted. And yeah if you're only able to hard cast Cure II then half HP is good to account for the cast time.
Best take into account server tick. The info shown is delayed so 9 of 10 when you play chicken with benediction the tank will die. 25% is usually fine 10% is not. One exception is the bees at Quarn. Those suckers will ignore armor and hit you for 75% at times.
Only if you don't kill them first and/or don't stun them. The 75% hit has a cast time, it's called final sting. Blue mages learn it.
A healer's job is to keep you alive, not to keep you at 100% hp. Your tank was an idiot. A good healer can contribute 25% of party damage, that is a lot.
Can they really though? Maybe in aoe pulls. Boss sounds tricky unless the DPS and tank are bad
In a dungeon, yes. It's not often it happens, but it can and does if the healer is good. If a healer is doing 25% of party damage in a boss fight, that's 7 people with a lot of issues.
The only way a healer contributes 25% of is if They are not healing and both the tank and the dps are bad. That's about it.
Then what are the DoT, Art of War, Gravity, and Holy supposed to be, if not for BIIIG NUMBARS (and for the WHM Glam to be \*stunning\*)? (Sorry, don't know what SGE's AoE is :()
- "Are you dead / did you die?" - "No" - "Then im doing my job, this conversation ends here, because I cant be bothered to argue with someone who evidently hasnt made any effort to understand this game and the basics of their role"
As a tank I'd rather die a few times knowing the healer is dpsing and testing their limit then be at full hp the whole time
yeah, this guy is being a tool for no reason. you should always be contributing to damage unless things go sideways. i donāt know what class youāre playing, but as a whm, abilities like assize, dia, glare, etc. are there for a reason - to be used! youāre doing fine.
im not saying anything that hasn't already been said here, but for your own sanity, don't EVER listen to anyone who tell you not to dps. even with your limited options, you can still do dmg that is almost if not comparable to a dps. ideally as a healer, the less healing you HAVE to do, the better. this looks different for each class but the more dmg you do, the faster the fight ends, which is its own kind of mitigation. and your contribution isnt miniscule, it's almost a quarter of the party's damage, so for the love of god do NOT stop dpsing. so long as the tank is using their kit and isn't dead, then you're doing it right. holy spam 4 life.
I'll be honest, outside of Mit usage, I don't pay much attention to my HP. I just live in a blissful certainty that so long as I'm still up, the healer's got it all covered. If you can keep me up while blasting away, then all the better.
Pretty much how I vibe as well. I'm still alive, got the mits going and I assume all is well. If I die, my first thought is what did I screw up, not why wasn't my healer healing me. Now, if I start to see a pattern of no heals going out or people not getting topped off, that's different. But usually if I'm alive, we're golden.
Tanks have mitigation/healing/invuln buttons so healers can contribute to damage, healing as necessary. If all a healer does is heal in this game, the tank has a bunch of useless buttons now, things take longer to die, which means more healingā¦ you are doing it right, you are just green DPS
I remember the time a tank told my friend to Adloquim, or he wouldnāt pull anymore. My friend was an ASTā¦
LMFAO
Your Job isn't to heal, it's to keep the party alive. And yes, there is a difference. Words I live by
You're right. Keep yourself alive first. Then the tank then the DPS.
Rip JoCat
What the fuck happened to my cat boy
He got Cancelled for liking women. Not a joke.
What. Send me a link, is he doing better?? Never fucking mind. I hate this goddamn fucking planet so much.
Sorry I didn't check reddit, i was gaming. And yea it's very shitty. I thought it was a joke? Like Jocat is amazing, surely there must be something that was..misinterpreted to get the crowds riled, but he literally made a song saying he likes women. A song he originally sang on a stream that was raising money for a Trans support charity.
Nah none of that anger was directed at you man, just hate those that harassed him cuz I know damn well they were probably a bunch of losers
This man is intentionally trying to torpedo your learning experience. Healers are meant to balance healing and damage. Healers are designed around being able to, and DOING DPS when nobody is under imminent fatal threat. The only point of HP that matters is the last one. Being alive is a binary. You are living or you are dead. Absolutely keep doing DPS so long as you can manage to avoid letting the HP bar read as [0]
So if someone I know is tanking and I'm healing I always play "how low can you go" and try and get them as close to dying as possible before healing them. (With randoms too, but typically not as low as friends I've queued with). Being a glare mage into one month of playing is absolutely fantastic, good on you.
There is a fine line between the tank dying or them using their invul. That line usually gets determined by the second dungeon pull.
If a tank dies without invulning, I accept 0 responsibility as healer.
Idiot tank running around as if kiting mobs stops damage. They speed up so they can hit you. This is why melee has a hard time when a tank decides "Fuck it, we WoW now" and tries to chain pull while something is still alive. Tank was an idiot. Keep doing damage while healing. As long as the tank doesn't die and the DPS doesn't die to a roomwide you had ample time to prepare for, you're doing your job.
Melee has a hard time? Anyone with a cast bar weeps because they're gonna be doing fuck all even if they can keep up.
Ah, the good ol' "panic circle." I love when tanks with like 75% HP start panic circling away from my Holy. Please, just lemme Holy.
Kiting does stop/slow damage considerably. But you never want to do it when your healer is alive. Itās a last resort you can do if the healer goes down. It does actually work though on most mob packs. The mobs will not hit you as much if youāre moving and not at all if sprint is up for the most part (this is why we say sprint is mitigation when youāre pulling). Though again this should not be done at all unless the healer is dead or if you need to give them an extra second or two to get a hardcast heal out.
Unless you're the only one alive then you should sit still period and if you have to do otherwise then the groups absolutely garbage. Kiting is really only used in solo content like deep dungeons, nowhere else should it be used or have to be used.
That is basically what I said. The post I responded to said it didnāt affect damage going out when it actually does but to not do it unless itās needed.
Youāre gonna do great, donāt worry
As a Crystal player, this honestly embarrasses me. Healers should be dps'ing, and as long as the tank stays alive, then everything is fine. Tanks don't have to stay at 70% hp at all times. The more dps everyone is doing, the quicker everything dies and the more resources tanks and healers save in the long run. The longer they take to die, the more stressful it's going to be for heals and tanks because they start running out of cooldowns.
The Tank is honestly an idiot for thinking that moving around causes mobs to miss their attacks. They're already locked on to you no matter the position you're in. It's only prudent to move around like a haphazard explosive barrel when there are windup attacks that do more damage than autos. In any case OP you're in the green with me as a tank main, you're justified. Keep it up later into the game you got this š
Even NPCs dps š
Of course he's from goblin...
It's hard enough getting new healers to DPS, we really don't need non-healers telling sprouts to only heal
What a jerk. By the way, you can report him for that "worst healer" comment; GMs tend to listen when people decide to be shitlords about other peoples' performances in duties. If you don't know how; `System - > Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment` Fill out the panel as best as you can, be very specific, make a note of how it made you feel, etc.
Wasn't there a whole big deal made during EW about how telling someone else how to play was now a reportable offense? This guy would absolutely have been reported by me.
If they said they're new to tanking and easily spooked I'd try and make them feel more confident by healing more than needed, but *only* healing? Lol nah.
If you can fit a dps spell in without me dying, I CLEARLY can fit more adds in! Let my health yo-yo! If I donāt die, Iām good!
His highest levels are 80. He doesn't know what he's talking about in the slightest.
just call people bad.
Classic, idk why people act like this. The healer job is to support the party, not only braindead heal. If they want that, find another game because it literally makes no sense in this game.
Honestly, that take looks like it can safely and consistently go right into the trash. You're gonna get a lot of those as you play this game. As the others here have said, you're doing a good job. In the future, say "Thank you for the suggestion, I am taking it into consideration" and then continue to carry on as normal. (Hells, make that a macro.) or, like, report that guy for enforcing a playstyle. Probs won't result in much but it's cathartic.
Litterally had a Paladin in a level 70 dungeon earlier today that would cast Clemency at 60% so I just kept casting stone
If tank (and by extension everyone else) not dead, healer did job successfully. Unless people stand in puddles for no reason and then die. That's also on them.
But standing in fire gives Haste buff! Wait, that's WoW.
Too many people make a healers job harder than it should be by being difficult because they feel entitled to a full health bar.
keep them regens up and spam holy until regens go down. if the tank canāt keep themselves alive with that, thatās their own problem lololol
If you're playing healer and you're not giving your tank anxiety for knocking on deaths door, are you even really playing healer? I say this as a sge and war player xd
There's not a single type of content in this game that will ever justify for a healer to focus solely on healing, you are expected to do damage in all of them, from the easiest gildhest to the hardest ultimate, the dps contribution from healer is counted for the dps check and you also need to pull your weight in that sense. Are there moments when you will need to prioritize healing over damage? Absolutely, and if you don't the party will most likely wipe, but after the moment passes you need to continue keeping the balance between dpsing and healing. Also, as a fellow whm main, I'm happy to know that you spam holy on a trash mob when healing isn't required, there are many of us that don't do it for some reason. Like people said before me, the only hp that matters is the last one, and if they didn't die (from lack of healing), you did a perfect job :)
As a player from goblin we don't claim them
Iām proud of you little sprout, you are doing good.
When I started playing healer, I realized there was usually downtime where nobody needed a heal, so I'd do DPS instead. I had just come over from WoW where that wasn't something you could really do, so I was very surprised and pleased. But I got yelled at and kicked from groups. A lot. Because people died? Nope. For not topping people to 100% at all times. If I didn't have Regen and Medica 2 on 100% uptime, my tanks would start having a fit. If I was hitting Holy during trash packs..."STOP FUCKING HOLYING AND HEAL." So, okay, I'm just a spout and these are seasoned players, mentors even, so they must know what they're talking about. Anyway, long story short, they were wrong. Never trust a mentor. AMAB amirite?
i kind of want to agree entirely tbh. iāve only unlocked a handful on dungeons and iāve been yelled at a lot too. i donāt really know where or if iām going wrong. nobody dies, itās always just about healing. like yeah, your health dropped below 99%, so what? itās pretty discouraging and iāve thought about putting in some time to levelling another role so i stop getting yelled at
As someone who played healer for years now, people are absolutely morons. One of my favorite things about scholar was a skill called excognition, which would pop automatically once the tank dropped below 50% hp and heal them basically back up to near-full. So I would drop the excogition on the tank, and start DPSing until that excogition popped. It's a heal right? Sure it's a delayed heal, but it's not my fault if the tank's such a baby they cant handle dropping below 90% hp. I would always tell them to just cool it and wait, but "I have trust issues with duty finder healers" was the number 1 response to me begging them to let excog pop so the heal is actually used, rather than... use clemency for a heal when they could be using holy spirit for... also a heal, as well as dps to kill the mobs faster. A startlingly high number of players are morons.
As a fellow SCH is agree with you. Plus, the faerie will do a lot of spot heals on the tank on trash. AoW spam is life š
honestly i've rarely run into that and i play heal constantly. if nobody is dying then of course fuck those tanks and yes only the last hp matters but a lot of times i'll keep the tank at least above 50% not because i NEED to but because it helps instill confidence in the tank so they don't start single pulling or some other bs
As both tank and healer, i have the same stance of āif the heal can damage, and tank doesnāt die, pull biggerā. The yo-yo of life is the best feeling. Tanks have invuln to survive tough bits and nearly all healers can burst heal them back to full within a gcd or two. WHM can do it in a single oGCD. Let the yo-yo continue!
Back when I first started learning how to play healer, I got cover Tom Tara deepcroftin roulette, I got a tank that was single pulling from the very start so I only had to cast three heels that dungeon, The rest of my cast we're all DPS. Nothing was said all dungeon until after the last boss was dead. All he said was worst healer ever. Confronted him a couple days later and he denied saying that, and said he must have been drunk
What data center are you on? I've probably done well over a thousand dungeons as healer on Light and don't recall ever seeing this
What data center are you on? I've probably done well over a thousand dungeons as healer on Light and don't recall ever seeing this
Tank is shit. Don't be like that tank, and don't do anything he tells you to do. I would've kicked or left tbch.
I was originally joking about making a tank on every data center. But...well this may be happening
This guy is completely wrong. In FF it is expected the healers do damage, everything is focused around that. I had a group try and kick me once because I was doing damage (they didn't die at all or get close).
My wife is my usual healer and she's very good at it. I can't tell you how often she'll wait until I'm in the double digits before she heals me. If they live through the encounter and you didn't have to res them you're fine.
I play tanks and I like it when healer contributes to DPS, it makes the killing faster and keeps me in focus to use tank kits to its optimum. Also giving the feeling of playing tank for the purpose a tank is there for, which according to me is taking in unavoidable damage, avoid dumb movements/ positions that makes it difficult for rest of the team to play at their best, deal damage, good use of mits/ self heals and more importantly always trusting your healer that they have your back and focusing on your role. The mindset i have as a tank when entering a dungeon is that if i didnāt need any of healers healing abilities then I have done my role as tank correctly and hopefully performed well for myself and for the team. donāt worry about that tank, that tank should realise that healers donāt exist just to heal.
As others have said, definitely be DPSing as healer Is the party alive? Good, you're doing your job properly More damage = quicker mob deaths = less need for heals This tank is just salty.cos he cant do his job right First rule of tanking: trust your healer.
You're good, the "did you die tho" is all you needed. No wipe was ever caused by low-health-but-not-dead players.
I had a similar situation in leveling roulette, I was tanking and no one was hitting the switches (tonberry dungeon hard) and I asked "why isnt anyone hitting the switches" to which the dps replied "why arnt you". I replied with because im pulling and tanking, cant really stop to hit a switch, and they said "but are you?"
It took me a while playing tank before i started to not care about my health so much, what did it for me actually was playing healer.. then I understood better their perspective.. I would always let the tanks drop low to do more dps.. and not give them heals or just let hots get them up etc. so its fair to assume other healers would do the same to me when im tanking. But nowdays its like.. As long as i am alive and rotating mits properly as needed my HP bar can do whatever it wants. thats the healers problem not mine '/shrug
As long as you're alive it doesn't matter what percentage you're on. If you can keep them alive AND dps at the same time after a month of playing I'd say you're a great healer and doing much better than a lot of sprout healers, this tank doesn't know what they're talking about and think they're better because they're higher level than you
If tank doesn't die then healers did a good job. The most important health is the last one!
Was the tank new as well? As you get into higher levels healing to max is not necessary at all. With WHM itās a real pain since they donāt have many ogcds either but if the tank was new it could be a comfort thing really. Some people learn better when they arenāt panicking about when their next heal is coming, something about not working as well under pressure. Him ārunning aroundā is a pretty strong indicator that thatās probably what he was experiencing. Anyway this is under the assumption the tank WAS new, it wonāt hurt your group to give little more healing if it makes it smoother for them, and you can offer the perspective that if you do dps it moves along faster, which helps them too, while offering to heal a little more or wean them off. I personally switched off WHM to SGE because thereās really no penalty for healing and it helps me keep my MP if I DO overheal. I often offer the perception that it hurts more to argue with a person who needs the extra room then it does to press an extra button, and take issue with the people who insist they need to āget over itā. When I was learning the game I read all my tooltips and in the heat of the moment I made the mistake of misunderstanding what cure 3 and believed was just an upgraded cure 2 because I didnāt immediately understand that I wasnāt supposed to be identifying how they were alike, and got confused by the description.