There is not enough time and energy in me to give all the kids the attention they should be getting. I have close to 300 new students this year. I don't even know everybodys name yet if they are not sitting in the classroom.
I teach high school. For me, I notice I start experiencing diminishing returns for every student above 16.. To me, that is the ideal class size. Every student you add above that, students will start getting less and less individual attention. By the time you hit 30, it's just survival mode and maintaining order.
I have a class with 13 enrolled and average 9 in attendance. Their scores are almost double what the rest of my classes have which range from 24-30.
It's amazing how that works...
Yeah, try teaching chemistry with 32 kids in a class...
During COVID, we had a time of hybrid classes. Half the class was in school, the other worked on stuff at home. Next week other way round. I only saw those kids half as often as a result, but with only 13-15 kids in the class, I got almost as much done in the end. And I didn't feel like half the kids were slipping through the cracks.
YES! When we were hybrid, I got to know each kid individually and could MEANINGFULLY differentiate because I had time. When you have over 30 kids at once, instead of a teacher, you're a police officer/firefighter-- putting out fires as quickly as you can but spending so much time on behavior that far less learning is going on. With large classes, sometimes I have more referrals in one day than I had the whole semester when we were hybrid; there were barely any behavior issues at all in smaller classes, whereas with these larger classes, sometimes I fantasize that instead of getting off at the highway exit for school, keep driving to the airport, hop on a plane, and run away. When you send a kid to the principal's office and the kid comes back in 15 minutes with a bag of Takis cussing me out for "telling on" him, what am I supposed to do?
I had 34 in a section and could only fit 33 desks in my room. When I asked what to do, I was told “hope that kids are absent.”
I also couldn’t do anything contractually, because the cap on class sizes was an *average* of thirty. Since I had smaller sections otherwise, it was deemed fine.
I have seen 24 students work fine in 10th grade HONORS classes.
I also had 80ish students prior to working in K12 at one time. But they were also ADULTS who mentally and medically screened for the program they were in. (Technical military training.)
You can add students based on maturity and willingness to be there.
This is why college classes also can handle a lot of students without survival mode occurring.
But you are 100% correct in a regular academic K12 environment, more than 15 or 16 is just ridiculous.
The middle school classes I attended were between 25 and 30 students and were also very quiet and cooperative. But heavily tracked/leveled Gifted classes in the 90's. And expulsion retentions and suspensions were common as well. (Pre-NCLB)
And then you get “why didn’t you notify the counselor and the parent for every single kid that might not pass your class!? You need to keep better track of your students!” As if there are enough hours in the day to do that with 300 students.
Not just grades. "Why didn't you notice that kid is more withdrawn than usual?". Because I've known them for 8 weeks and see them for 90 minutes a week in a class of 32 kids and they started off being a quiet kid.
Yep, or if their basic human needs are not being met forget about it. I have a student who just sleeps because he is so sleep deprived and all his siblings. If he feels warm and safe to sleep… go ahead buddy. I don’t wake him anymore.
I had a 12th grader back in 2012 in my 9th grade science class, who worked a job, had a kid, another on the way, lived with his girlfriend because he was kicked out of his house (guess why)
He did not need to learn stratification and uniformitarianism.
No learning gets done when Jimmy and Samantha are doing cartwheels in the classroom because Middle School doesn't have recess or at least Gym class for every student every day.
Yes, they still have Gym - but at the semester point they rotate out of their electives and may have Art and Music instead of Gym and Computer Tech. They need physical activity all year. Cause we know they aren't getting it outside of school for many of them.
And that's not even their fault; when there is such a shortage of bus drivers that it takes HOURS to get home in some cases, kids aren't home before dark and CAN'T safely play outside. Kids of all ages need some outdoor time.
some of the schools I work in only give the students 20 minutes, starting in grade 2. it's fucking WILD. and surprise surprise, many of those schools have high amounts of behavior difficulties.
We get 20 minutes recess for my first grade class. There is no class that comes out directly after us for recess so I try to always give them extra time. Usually 10 minutes extra. My grade partner, who is a total buzz kill, lines her class up right at the 20 minute mark and totally judges me for keeping my class out longer because “don’t I have work I need them to be doing? How will you fit this/that in if you give them all this extra play time?” Bitch they are 6 years old back the f up. I also give them a ton of brain breaks everyday and she doesn’t. Guess who’s class is always the more chill better behaved class every year? It doesn’t matter though. She is convinced she is 1,000 times better than me. God I would love to have a cool grade partner again.
I’m a mom lurker that does an after school thing once a week… we found our seven first and second graders magically can maintain focus and get work done… AFTER we’ve let them play outside for twenty minutes. Other groups gasp at our decision… and are constantly frustrated by wiggly kids with no focus.
I’m a high school teacher and last year I had a portable, so I regularly sent the rowdy ones out for “recess” with a nerf ball during homeroom. The teacher that had them afterward thanked me lol. Unfortunately I’m in an interior room this year and can’t do that.
Our district recently went through some bond voting… we have sixteen elementary schools in our district that didn’t have a gymnasium… surprise surprise… they were also the lowest performing schools. And somehow forty percent of people that voted didn’t think the gyms were worth the one penny per thousand dollars of property value or whatever tiny amount it was (my husband calculated that it would cost us personally less than $50/year).
To most children, enforcing any type of thing that makes them unhappy makes someone the “bad guy.” Some parents just want to be their kid’s friend, and it’s producing some quite horribly underprepared human beings.
Had a Meeting with a parent last week where she proceeded to tell us we need to MAKE her child work at school.
When asked if she has a set time each day for him to do work she avoided the question by saying he tells her he has no work to do.
After the meeting I received 10 messages from on our online platform, and 4 phone calls which I let go to voicemail.
She just kept on and on about how we’re failing him by not making him do his work and pay attention at school.
Yes. This. I posted this elsewhere, but shame plays a very important role in society, and we have completely forgotten that. No, not all kids need shame, in fact most kids dont. But the ones that do, REALLY do, or they will likely never be able to function properly in society.
I had a student who got cheating bad. But who was honest enough to admit doing it for YEARS. About an hour later, they came up to me and said that they feel bad that they cheated. They were shocked (I mean full on open mouth) when I told them that it can be good to feel bad sometimes.
I had to explain to them that recognizing what you did was wrong and feeling bad for it is a great first step in not repeating the behavior that got you in trouble in the first place.
They still went home and told their mom that I want them to feel bad. Luckily, mom was understanding and didn't buy it for a second.
> No, not all kids need shame, in fact most kids dont.
I'd argue that everyone should experience at least *some* shame at some point in their lives. We've all done something wrong and should feel a little bad about it when we do.
There are times where I know for a fact that if I could just tell a kid, eye to eye, dead serious, that he’s being a fucking asshole, they would ACTUALLY HEAR IT.
You can pull them into the hall and do it. I've done something similar, but it was in a positive way that still involved swearing and also providing the student with advice we're explicitly not allowed to give, but the student reacted very positively and said, "That's exactly what my dad said!" Bingo. I told the kid I had plausible deniability though and that if asked, I'll deny ever having said it and there's no evidence except his word against mine, and I'll win. We really connected over that moment. I think the same can happen with discipline as well. Some kids will respect us a lot more if we were able to be more real with them.
Ah, the acronym for Pure Bull\*\*\* In School. It's killing me, too. What's the incentive to behave better when a kid behaves like a complete donkey then comes back in 15 minutes with Takis, whereas the kids who behaved like normal humans received no Takis?
-The primary purpose of public school is daycare for kids so parents can work
-Kids need consequences and accountability
-Disruptive students need to be removed from general classrooms to protect learning for the majority
-Having kids several years behind, at grade level, several years ahead, on IEPs, and some who can’t speak English all in the same room is not least restrictive, it’s crazy. Expecting one teacher to differentiate across all those levels is unrealistic and in reality means that most kids aren’t getting their needs met
Being “inclusive” would mean providing me with the resources to meet the needs of all my students. That’s either more time, smaller classes, teaching assistance, tech, and so on.
What we do is integration which is just absolute bullshit, then admin calls it inclusion and pats themselves on the back.
YES!! 100 % yes. We cannot possibly differentiate across the spectrum of kids they put on front of us. I teach in an Australian public school and the diversity is NOT a positive.
Disruptive kids - why does the system try everything to keep them in the classroom as much and for as long as possible? It's NOT FAIR to the other kids and their learning.
Consequences and accountability: Yes. If only. Our deputy principals and behaviour coaches are too friendly with the difficult kids.
Last year we had a problem child move to a different school in the middle of the year. The difference in how well the classroom functioned was night and day.
I teach upper primary and had six of those kids last year. Six. It was Hard.
Between suspensions, Buddy class withdrawals, illness and just luck all six were absent a few times, bliss.
When it happened I threw out what I had planned and taught in a lighter, more interactive and hands on way. One kid commented how fun the day was the first time it happened and asked why can’t we do it all the time. An astute classmate commented that the other kids would ruin it.
Shame the kids understand more about how / why we teach than our admin do.
my class went on a “field trip” once. we went to the big field that the school owned and were looking for bugs and such in the grass with magnifying glasses. it was a really hot day, and the grass had been dry for awhile due to a heatwave. so idiots had the bright idea of trying to set the grass on fire with the magnifying glasses, it started smoking and a small flame started. the field was next to a residential area full of families with small children. luckily a teacher noticed and put the flame out. that was the end of going outside for our class lmao.
We used to go on the best field trips. Every year, there was something called the Fine Arts Fiesta and Children’s Theater Festival. We’d see a show at the festival and then walk around the fiesta for a few hours. They had booths with paintings, sculptures, etc. by local artists. You could also buy funnel cake and fresh fruit, do sand art, and have all other sorts of fun.
We also went to a working Amish farm and got to jump in bales of hay from the barn loft, pet a horse, etc. One time we went to a local nature preserve and had a picnic. I think my favorite was when we got to go to the nature center and pick through deer turds to see what we could find. Just a bunch of fun stuff. I’m sad for kids today who don’t get to do these kinds of things.
I know how you feel but I do think that in some cases, with some people, a little bit of shame can be a catalyst. Or at the very least, it’s an “earned” negative feeling. We’ve all felt it before and I think a lot of parents and teachers nowadays fully believe shame will ruin a child and it’s never deserved but I think it’s one of the most important social correctors.
Same with anxiety. They are responses to situations that make us uncomfortable, and we owe it to kids to let them experience and deal with those emotions.
Yes! Sit in them and roll them over in your mind until they’re easier to process or maybe you can even find the root of it. Obviously a full blown anxiety disorder is different but I think because of how common anxiety disorders have become, everyone is quick to think all feelings of anxiety are disordered.
Natural consequences, right? Negative feelings might be uncomfortable, but they’re just as useful to us as positive feelings. If a student is acting in a way (that they can control) that makes people unhappy with them, it’s totally important that they learn how to channel that feeling into a positive change!
I swear I have a “lightbulb moment” with a student every year when they finally internalize the effects of their behavior and it’s *so* valuable.
Yesss I love those moments. I’ve transitioned from teaching and coaching high schoolers to becoming a household manager so now I see the behavior play out at home! I love the mom I work for as a person but she is unfortunately the definition of a permissive parent and she shields her children from very tame, natural consequences.
It makes me wonder, at what point will they receive a consequence they simply can’t turn their backs to and how big will it have to be? And if the delay of accepting consequences goes on for too long, at what point will they just become lifelong victims where they don’t believe anything they do should warrant a negative reaction and thus a negative feeling?
Scary to ponder but we can only do so much.
That’s probably the *only* part of working with older kids I miss haha! I transitioned to elementary special education a few years back, but now I now have former students coming to me with problems, and it’s always an interesting experience.
“Mr, one of my friends said I’m a jerk.”
“Ok well… were you *being* a jerk?”
“… yes”
“And did that work out well for you?”
“No!”
“Ok so let’s fix it!”
> They all immediately pointed to and said the name of the one student who they knew I was talking about. I almost felt bad for him. Almost. But he brought it all on himself.
Don’t feel bad. There’s a lot of people who need to be publicly ridiculed. Kids and adults alike.
exactly. People act like feeling embarrassed or ashamed are bad things. They feel bad, but these feelings exist for a reason. People should be ashamed that intentionally disrupt the learning of others.
Shame is a social instrument, or at least it was, that actually accomplished much of the work that we now (attempt to) do with formal sanctions. The loss of appropriately-issued shame has made our whole culture a worse place.
Yup. Shame is great when deployed properly. Unfortunately I think social media makes people take it too far, especially with kids. So now we’ve swung WAAAAAAAY in the other direction.
No they understand, but they are not for the kids or you. They are for the head count that gives the district money. It’s a business to everyone above you, and not about education.
It’s wild how one student can change the vibe of an entire class. I had one class that was a little uppity cause it was the end of the day but I could rein them in and still laugh and enjoy the lessons. I got one additional student with an absolute crap attitude added that made everything a fight (and we use machinery so I don’t play around with any type of fuckery when it comes to safety) and it changed the whole vibe of the class. I actually had a few students go to the guidance counselors because they were so bothered by the student which I was sorta proud of because they shouldn’t have to have a class turned shitty by one kid. But alas, I’m stuck with them until June.
Yep Kevin is a black hole for progress. If I move him, the grades of anyone near him go down. I have to redirect him dozens of times every class. Sometimes in the same sentence.
All of this!! And before we get slammed for depriving them of education, they just need a different environment. My district has a school for troubled kids that really helps all around.
Yep. My background is in special ed and I hate how controversial it is now to suggest something like that. “Least restrictive environment” does NOT mean “we have to put every kid in a gen ed classroom NO MATTER WHAT.” And that applies to non-EC behavior issues too. Sometimes the best thing for ALL the children, including the ones causing the trouble, is to get them into a separate setting that can better meet their needs! I’ve also seen it used in a totally wrong way where a teacher thought accommodations for a physically disabled student were “too much trouble” and wanted him moved to a separate setting special ed class even though he was on grade level! We really need to get our shit together on this. The least restrictive environment is where kids can learn the best! For a grade level physically disabled student who can make straight A’s as long as he has the equipment he needs, that is a regular classroom. For a child whose meltdowns are causing their kindergarten class to be evacuated into the hall three times a day (true story), that classroom is not the least restrictive environment for ANY child.
I've had admin tell me that they feel terrible every time a student has to move settings. Why? Why do you feel terrible sending a kid off to a learning environment that is better suited to them? Right now, they aren't learning at all. And neither are their classmates. Don't feel bad that we finally were able to get them where they need to be! It's not shameful to need a different setting!
This is it here. However you want to say it to try and make it sound better go for it, but it’s a stone cold fact. Removing certain kids from the school would make things better for everyone else. Period.
Trying to avoid being held back a grade was the only motivation some students had when I was growing up. To take that away and put all the responsibility for motivating themselves on the kid is harsh.
\*edited tense of one word
More students need to be held back a grade. I like the recent approach from Mississippi, where students who don’t pass a basic reading test in grade 3 must repeat the grade.
That many of education's problems could be solved by holding parents criminally and civilly responsible for their kids.
And more recently, if you have not taught a post covid class for at least a semester you should not be able to present a PD or be a school admin
Watching Ethan Crumbly’s parents in shackles, being forced to take accountability for their kid, has been what our society needs. Totally agree with you that parents need to be held accountable! And I’m not a teacher, just a parent.
10000000% this. The number of times I have had parents ask me advice on how to get their kid to stop playing on their phone and do HW is shockingly high. Or my new favorite was getting their kid to try and get to bed on time and not stay out until 1 or 2am.
Like best I can do is talk to the kid after class for a few minutes and hope for the best.
How on earth do I monitor their at home habits AND correct them?
Could not agree more. I still remember the parent teacher conferences I held when I was 21 years old and how shocked I was that about a third of the parents I saw asked me for advice on how to parent their kid. As if I- a childless first time teacher who has known your kid for two months- should know better than you how to get your child to do their chores after you've been raising them for ten years.
And they are often completely unwilling to change anything they do at home.. they expect the school to completely raise their kids and hold them accountable, all while refusing to hold their kids accountable at home. 🙄🙄🙄
100%. I teach in a “good school.” Consistently in the top 10 of a huge state. But a lot of the teachers who have worked here for 25 years are absolute crap. They’re not doing anything special in their rooms. But we DO have super rich parents who have had their kids private tutors and lessons since first grade.
Detracking is inefficient and results in mid and high performing students suffering from their peers’ constant behavior issues and lowered academic standards.
My school refuses to track or label anybody and it is a disaster for the "standard" classes. They are essentially remedial because of the ability levels and behaviors, which *also* impacts the pre-AP and AP classes. Those classes are flooded with kids who should by all means not be taking advanced classes, but we have no pre-reqs and many students want to get away from the abhorrent behaviors in the classes that are actually at their levels. (I don't blame most of them.)
My department, ELA, just had a meeting with our ELL and admin teams last week about this. We have students at early elementary reading levels in our core classes expected to do high school work. It's nigh impossible for them. That puts us classroom teachers into very difficult situations because we either teach to the kids who are at grade level and half the class fails, or dumb down content and massively slow the rate of instruction and the other half if bored to death. It's a lot of pressure that should be solved by accurate placement of student, but heaven forbid we do anything like that. Somebody might feel bad, and we'd rather assuage the possibility of hurt feelings and bad social juju than do what's best for a kid and put them in a place they'll actually learn.
The worst part is nobody listens or cares. I've told these same teams of colleagues that certain students in my class could not possibly pass my class. I knew this and shared this in September. Nobody cared that a kid would get zero credits and gain almost zero skills because it was so far above them.
Yea well wasn't mainstreaming *supposed* to originally be *only* classes where a kid *could* do the work, IF that was possible?
Not a teacher. Have just witnessed parents absolutely *insisting* it means ALL classes to hell with whether or not a kid could do the work. And really combative about it.
If somehow people didn't know from the start this was a terrible idea, as soon as districts started bragging about their "inclusion percentage" it should have been abundantly clear that this was 100% not done for the benefit of students.
Schools and systems are way more concerned about how decisions are perceived by the public than whether or not they benefit the students. Cellphone policies are one great example….comments on social media drive decision making. I also get about 5 emails a week from school system asking me to vote for some person in our district for some random award and if they win, it is promoted as though it is an indication of how successful our system is.
Restorative justice only works when there are boundaries and lines you cannot cross. There's a level between little Jimmy said fuck in class and little Jimmy set a fire in class. You can't treat both the same.
Inclusion classrooms only hurts kids.
You will never achieve full equity. People are too different.
Most of these things are done for the appearance of doing something than actually doing something
Parents need to parent their kids. We're not their parents.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being 20 and finishing high school. Or getting your GED.
Class sizes are too big for me to adequately care for more than 2 years of “range”
Also? Composite classes suck.
Eg. I taught 3/4 before I taught a straight 5 last year.
In Australia (idk if in all states) we have a “9 point system” where there are 3 levels below grade level E, D, D+ (approximately) but all grouped as “well below/Below grade standard” then C-, C (grade level expected), C+, all grouped together as “grade standard”, then B, B+ A grouped together as “above/well above grade standard”. Approximately it means that C is at grade level (so where someone should be for that grade) while a b is approximately working one grade level above, and a is appropriately 2. That is the same at the lower end too, approximately one to two years below grade level. That’s not a perfect example but I know not everyone is Aussie here so that’s the best I can do.
So if you take my 3/4 class of 30 students and make it so exactly 15 are 3s and 15 are 4s, that means I have kids that are working from:
Grade 1 and below, all the way up to grade 6 and above.
I’m only supposed to be teaching 2 year groups. Why does that all of a sudden become the scope of the entire primary curriculum.
It’s too much differentiation.
You’d have kids anywhere on those 9 points, and you need to tailor it up and down to allow for the collection of evidence of that grade (which we also have to physically collect) So not only do I say, have to have Johnny’s sample of work saying that he didn’t understand/achieve grade level, I also have to have something that shows what he can achieve.
Teaching a straight five still meant that I had similar range, but it meant I could focus on one core curriculum at one grade level and slide up and down on either end rather than having to match up 2 to the best of my ability and slide up and down both ends.
Edit- typos
This is an understatement. I teach at a university where every student was at the top of their high school class. And yet I still find it shocking how much more intelligent the students at the top of my classes are compared even to those in the middle.
I learned this in law school. I was the best in all schools I went to including college. 99.4 percentile on LSAT. I got into one of the top law schools in the country. I was bang average for the first time. And the girl that was top of my class blew me out of the water in both raw intelligence and work ethic. And surely there are people out there that would destroy her too.
Teaching in a private school I see this play out and it really is vital to the health and direction of the school as a whole. I’m thankful we can make those tough choices.
It’s better to embarrass the hell out of an asshole kid and put them in their place, teaching them the life lesson of “watch what you fucking do and say” among peers within the safe incubation of a classroom, rather than let them learn it the hard way on the street during adulthood.
I’m doing God’s work when knocking kids down a few pegs.
Edit: just noting that I don’t do it maliciously or nasty or in a humiliating way. I do it calmly and almost subtly. Just enough to make them think about and maybe reflect.
You can't expect a teacher dealing with large classes and/or a tight schedule to build a personal relationship with every student, let alone adjusting their classes to take everyone's interests, personal quirks etc. into account.
School doesn't make that big of a difference for a lot of kids compared to home. I've worked at fancy private schools with shit teachers and urban public schools with great teachers and it doesn't matter. We're like 15% of how a kid turns out max, but society acts like we're 95%.
edit: Editing because I feel mild ethical guilt over the melodrama of my statement. Of course having a teacher that is skilled and cares makes a difference, especially for kids from tougher situations, but my point is that my 18 years has taught me the difference really isn't very big. I've poured my heart into classes in Oakland CA and watched them mostly still struggle in life, and I've chilled my ass off at a private international school and watched them all breeze off to nice colleges.
I love this, and have to remind myself of it constantly. My principal acts like the 45 minutes a day that we see these kids will make or break their *entire lives*. I’m like… I can barely remember who my HS science teachers were, let alone anything I learned from them. We are just one of many stepping stones in kids’ lives.
Exactly. I focus on what I DO remember about my HS teachers and try to use that. I remember one teacher for always being kind. I remember another because he never remembered my name. I know what I want my students to remember about me and focus on that. The content is secondary. They may or may not ever use it.
That’s what I was going to say - some of my students will end up in jail. I’ve only had maybe 4 I felt this way about in my 13 year career. They were all diagnosed as oppositional defiant disorder or emotionally and behaviorally disturbed. Similar to the kid who shot the teacher in Norfolk VA. Those kids need intensive therapy, and even then I don’t know, but public school is not it.
This, I have kids in my classes that haven't passed a course in YEARS but somehow the system advances them and now I get to try to teach them things they should have known years ago while teaching the actual current course material.
I got a student about two months ago who is non verbal, he does no work, we aren’t even sure he’s capable, he’s never passed any class yet he’s a junior. His mother has always refused to have him tested, but I think we convinced her finally.
at what point is refusing to have an obviously disabled kid tested criminal parental neglect? that poor boy could have spent his life being taught alternative communication methods, life skills, and how to accommodate himself. maybe he'd even have been able to learn some of the regular curriculum in a different way. instead, he probably just feels stupid and useless, and all his teachers are frustrated and helpless. *ugh*
I have one junior who immigrated last year from Latin America who didn’t understand 2 weeks ago that Ds and Fs are bad. Her dad blamed me for her grades even though we’re a special program and I provide everything in Spanish.
We spend more and more money on students every year but the scores keep going down or staying the same. So, more money doesn’t equal more learning. But teachers still don’t get paid enough and we still get the same crappy budgets every year.
Teachers quitting within the first few years because their health is declining is a good decision.
“Most people aren’t cut out for teaching.” Teaching is too demanding of a profession for most people, and I don’t blame them for thinking so.
I started feeling bad when I realized I was becoming less and less emotionally invested in my students. I figured out that’s me becoming what I need to be to make it in the long run in teaching.
25 years ago when things were far better, half of all teachers quit before their 5th year. They just didn't know enough to make it work.
Now, it feels like it's down to three years. And it's the smart teachers who realize that the pay, workload, and constant danger just aren't worth it.
Instead of setting so many teachers up to fail, we need to make teaching safe and reasonable. Admin must take back all the responsibilities, particularly discipline, that they've dumped on the backs of teachers.
Most of the people who drop out are not "not cut out for teaching"—they are no cut out for the brutal public education system that disregards their health.
I think about this one a lot as I did quit at the end of this previous summer. I could’ve kept up with and enjoyed my coworkers, but knew it wasn’t for me. Plenty of people understood and my building had high turnover anyways, but some definitely saw me as “not cut out for it”, which I always thought was funny since they were miserable and just killing the clock to retirement.
I was student teaching when COVID hit, my first year was full on emergency mode for the entire industry, and the later years were full of the post-COVID issues we all know.
I didn’t quit because I was weak, I quit because this specific job, in this specific time, is clearly unsustainable or unreasonable for someone not already entrenched within the system or filled with a “calling”. It seemed like the smart thing to get out early if I knew I wouldn’t stay till retirement.
Direct instruction is the most effective method to teach the majority of the class. We aren't actually data driven since we are beholden to the scope and sequence with little to no ability to modify this.
Bell to bell instruction is In direct conflict with SEL. On this note, the brain needs time to process things and constant high rigor questioning means most students are not getting this.
It makes more sense to teach homogeneous concepts despite student ages. I don't have any idea on logistics but it would be better to pull all students who need to learn the letter sounds despite their age, then blends, etc. In my concept you don't leave your learning cohort until you test out of the skill. So if you are 10 and don't know your letter sounds, you are still grouped with Kindergarten aged students.
Restorative justice is ineffective in most cases. Teachers are not supported properly by admin in a lot of schools; they’re afraid to do anything.
Every administrator needs to spend at least a week teaching a class, perhaps an unruly one, each semester. This might give them increased empathy for their teachers and help them see what it’s like to be in the trenches again.
I think admin numbs out and forgets what it’s like.
Edited for grammar
>Restorative justice only works if the children engaging in restorative justice value the community.
And they don't, because Admin replaces that part with "a conversation" and usually a lollipop.
I think restorative justice is a response to the school to prison pipeline, but I feel like it’s a two way street. Yeah, we should be conscious of whether we are being overly punitive…but also consequences are still needed. You can have consequences without harming relationships. Especially because if a kid never has consequences, once they’re an adult they will fuck up and end up in jail and be confused because they’ve never been punished before.
The socioeconomic background of a student makes a much much bigger impact on a student's learning than any of us would like to admit. Obviously, there are exceptions, but in general, an average middle-class student is going to do better than an average lower-class student.
Professionals (teachers, therapists, etc.) need an avenue to communicate to parents that their parenting is the cause of the child’s behaviors, not the school.
As a sped teacher for students with significant and profound disabilities, my students can't learn in the gen ed classroom. The things we are working on aren't even remotely the same, and it stresses my kids out to the max. Inclusion is best during non-instrctional times (recess, lunch, specials/electives, assemblies, class parties, ect.).
I'm tired of mandatory commitees and meetings.
Your sped kid is passing because it’s easier to pass him along than actually teach him. He’ll graduate incredibly unprepared for the real world.
He’s not “overcoming his disability,” he’s being ignored and pushed through.
The average IQ in regular classrooms (non honors or AP) is below 100.
If you take the entire population of your school (about 1800 high school students for me), the average is gonna be close to 100. But many of the students in the upper end will flock to honors and AP course, which by default brings down the average in regular classes.
I teach advanced and regular and the difference is pretty massive. In my regular classes, about 1/3 of students can't look at 2 maps of the same place and figure out that it's the same.
Our honors classes have become our college prep classes... They are the kids that will be adequately prepared for college. Our general level classes, which are described as college prep, are basically remedial skills...we're still teaching analysis paragraph structure to sophomores who are still unable to "pick a transition from list #1" when given two lists of transitions and "put it in the appropriate place" (next to a box that says transition #1). Many kids in those classes think they're going to college, but there's no way they'll be successful. Our lower level classes, meant for skill recovery or non-college bound kids, are filled with immature kids who just have no skills and no work ethic, so no skills are ever recovered. They are basically bare minimum stone steppers to graduate that many kids still fail due to attendance.
There should be entrance exams into every grade level. I have seniors who still cant multiply and divide, yet I have to waste my time and energy in trying to teach them algebra 2 when it is impossible for them. There is a reason that I am not the starting pitcher for the Yankees..I don’t have the ability to pitch. And guess what, if I tried really hard and practiced a ton, I still could not pitch for the Yankees. This is the same with some students and academics, math in particular. Some will just never get it…
The reason why teachers aren't paid well is partially because it's a female-driven field, but also because the government knows it can take advantage of "moral obligation", and thus expectation of free emotional labor from teachers, rather than an actual salary.
Free emotional labor hits so hard.
I think that’s what burns us out the quickest. You give it all to other people kids and have nothing left for your family and friends.
There's a lot of teachers that make it worse. Every time I hear any teacher say they do it for the kids I always say back, it's a job and we deserve to have job money
I’m not sure about the rest of the US, but in my neck of the woods instruction is less about learning/memorizing facts and events and more about thinking critically to come to your own conclusion. I believe this is great for high schoolers, especially juniors and seniors. However, we’ve also shifted that in our lower grades, such as middle school and even late elementary.
How can we ask students to think critically about an event in history if they have no idea what even happened? That’s the gist of it but I’ve seen it happening more often.
As a martial arts instructor: Some kids (read: bullies) really just need a punch in the face. The number of times I've seen a kid with behavioral issues get into sparring and finally get hit back, and suddenly, they no longer wanna bully people is insanely high. I honestly think many of them just don't realize how much what they're doing actually hurts other kids.
1. Education system would be more efficient if we did the opposite of no child left behind. Some kids are dragging down everyone.
2. Parents need to be held accountable for their kids absences/failures
3. Not everyone is meant to go thru k-12. 9-12 should have vocational options.
4. LRE is placing undue burdens on teachers.
5. Standardized tests are a complete waste of time & energy.
6. There’s a reason why there’s less turnover at the affluent schools
7. Teachers aren’t donating their time. Quit making the education system about “loving the kids and doing it for them.” Fuck them kids, they better start paying or there won’t be any left.
NCLB ruined Ed. Some kids just need to try again, be held back, aren't astrophysicists, etc... We need all sorts in this world, and all jobs should make a living wage. Thrusting the same path upon each student and forcing them to conform has destroyed education. Kids get pushed along and passed from the ground up. By the time they become a senior, they have zero skills and can't even read.
1--There *are* bad kids.
1a--Statistically, at least 1% of children have antisocial personality disorder and/or full-on psychopathy.
2--There are unteachable kids.
3--There are kids who, no matter what interventions you could *ever* give, money being no object, will never learn to read.
4--Statistically, some of your kids are going to go to prison.
5--not every kid belongs on or deserves to be forced into a university-stream. Not every kid is going to love reading. Some kids just like being social and will get social jobs, and you don't need a degree for that.
6--Some kids will try to wreck your career if you piss them off. See 1 and 4.
7--Some of your colleagues will be engaged in some degree of sexual abuse of a minor. Not all will be men.
8--Your principal is not your friend.
There are lots more. These come to mind.
It’s okay not to like a student. I really really try but there is always one. And I am always evaluating myself to make sure I’m not treating them differently.
Some kids are just "school dumb." You could give them all the resources in the world and the best teachers in the world - it wouldn't matter.
Doesn't mean they can't be nice, hard working, or hold a job. They just aren't school smart.
Oooh… I have several!
1. Some students can’t. It’s not “can’t yet,” but just can’t.
2. Disruptive students don’t deserve to be in general population classes.
3. Required schooling goes too long in this country. We need to cut I’d down and have multiple paths for what to do next. (This isn’t one I’m afraid to say at work.)
Putting high needs kids in regular classroom is not ‘inclusion’ and often makes them feel more isolated than they would be in spaces designed for their needs.
School districts are on the hook for the education of all students, and because of sped and civil rights laws, the students who are least likely to ever become independent citizens cost 100s of times more than general education students. Kids who are severely disabled can cost a school district millions of dollars per year. One nonverbal, IQ of 62, violent, and non-potty trained child can cost a district 23 million dollars throughout their time in pre-k to age 26.
A lot of teachers (edit: a lot, not most) are too dumb to do their jobs properly.
There are a number of kids who simply should not be in the classroom.
"Preparing kids for college" should not be the primary goal, and things like literacy and basic mathematics are much more important (ie: the three R's, so to speak).
More money thrown at the problem doesn't improve outcomes for students.
Phonics beats whatever circlejerk method some moron came up with a few years back.
Kids absolutely need to memorize certain information, like multiplication tables.
Administration needs to be cut back substantially.
Harsher punishments and removal from the classroom need to happen more often and should be the standard instead of the exception for kids who want to disrupt.
The majority of kids should not be making an A unless they show actual mastery of the material (which I think is potentially possible in an ideal environment).
I agree with the harsher punishments and removal from school for the most unwieldy students.
And I also feel it’s fair to acknowledge that most (maybe all) of those worst students have really crappy backgrounds and home lives. In light of this, I also feel that our education department should invest in alternative programs besides education to occupy the kid’s time until they mature enough to appreciate school. (Ie. High schoolers could Work in the national forest, do grunt work for the city, etc.).
Also, non traditional pathways for people to complete their education after a school removal should be made more available.
Edit: I spent years working in a developing country where half the kids dropped out and back into school based on financial hardship. It was not as stigmatized to be an older student. Also, many missionary complexes hosted alternative education centers for adult learners.
It was a sad reality that economics prevented a straight k-12 pathway. But the beauty of allowing students flexibility was something that I’ve wondered about in the US. We need to better normalize and celebrate students completing their education at any stage of life.
>The majority of kids should not be making an A unless they show actual mastery of the material (which I think is potentially possible in an ideal environment
I think it's beyond potentially possible - it should be the expectation. If only a small minority of students can master the content of the standards in an ideal environment - that's a problem with the standards, not the students or the teaching
1. "That's a hill I'm not willing to die on" is an excuse that makes it difficult for other teachers to uphold common/schoolwide expectations. It is also an indication that there are too many battles a teacher has to fight just to make it through the day.
2. By the time a kid hits HS, "hand-holding" or "1-on-1" time is ridiculous and needlessly time consuming. They should be on the path of independent work without someone having to prod them along or "incentivizing them."
3. The kid choosing not to do the work is wasting space in the classroom and is a behavior liability.
4. We're not counselors, preachers (or other form of clergy), or parents. Stop making us do SEL.
5. A students self-concept or "feelings" cannot be a determinant in deciding what's best for them. Part of growing up is recognizing you can't be motivated solely by the feeling you have in the moment. Another part is accepting that you do sometimes fail to meet goals or that you do crappy things.
6. Ban phones. You cannot make a lesson on the Industrial Revolution, supplementary angles, anaerobic respiration, or Shakespeare more engaging than a device designed to be addictive.
7. PD after the second or third year of teaching is ultimately a waste of time. Reduce the number of hours a teacher needs to attend with each year of experience.
There are others, but I think they've already been said.
>That's a hill I'm not willing to die on
I'll start dying on it as soon as Admin starts giving out consequences for it.
Fair?
I'm not dress coding a 17 year old girl and getting all of the "why are you looking in the first place, creep" shit when I know the Admin isn't going to do anything even if I do write them up.
Inclusion education benefits no one.
Many teachers are bad at this job.
Masters- and Doctorate-level degrees in education generally aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on in comparison to degrees in other disciplines.
Piggy-backing! Don't get an education in education. You can always get teacher certified, but get YOURSELF an education in something else that you can fall back on.
This job is NOT for everyone, and even if it is for you, you may not want it for the next 20 years.
In a highly divided society, there is no one teaching strategy that will satisfy all stakeholders. What is best for an individual child is not always what their parent or teacher insists is best for them and in fact the parent and teacher may fundamentally disagree on what will best position a kid for success and happiness in this world. In case of a disagreement on principle neither the teacher nor the parent is necessarily right, and in fact the adult with more/louder support is also not necessarily right.
STUDENTS SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERPERFORMING NEED TO BE HELD BACK.
Pushing them through the system with “passing” grades is a disservice to them, their peers, and their teachers
There is not enough time and energy in me to give all the kids the attention they should be getting. I have close to 300 new students this year. I don't even know everybodys name yet if they are not sitting in the classroom.
I teach high school. For me, I notice I start experiencing diminishing returns for every student above 16.. To me, that is the ideal class size. Every student you add above that, students will start getting less and less individual attention. By the time you hit 30, it's just survival mode and maintaining order.
so much this, and people wonder why my class with 20 students is higher performing than my class with 28
I have a class with 13 enrolled and average 9 in attendance. Their scores are almost double what the rest of my classes have which range from 24-30. It's amazing how that works...
Yeah, try teaching chemistry with 32 kids in a class... During COVID, we had a time of hybrid classes. Half the class was in school, the other worked on stuff at home. Next week other way round. I only saw those kids half as often as a result, but with only 13-15 kids in the class, I got almost as much done in the end. And I didn't feel like half the kids were slipping through the cracks.
YES! When we were hybrid, I got to know each kid individually and could MEANINGFULLY differentiate because I had time. When you have over 30 kids at once, instead of a teacher, you're a police officer/firefighter-- putting out fires as quickly as you can but spending so much time on behavior that far less learning is going on. With large classes, sometimes I have more referrals in one day than I had the whole semester when we were hybrid; there were barely any behavior issues at all in smaller classes, whereas with these larger classes, sometimes I fantasize that instead of getting off at the highway exit for school, keep driving to the airport, hop on a plane, and run away. When you send a kid to the principal's office and the kid comes back in 15 minutes with a bag of Takis cussing me out for "telling on" him, what am I supposed to do?
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I couldn’t move anywhere with 38, you must be frozen in place with 45!
That's *lecture hall* levels of students, jfc
I had 34 in a section and could only fit 33 desks in my room. When I asked what to do, I was told “hope that kids are absent.” I also couldn’t do anything contractually, because the cap on class sizes was an *average* of thirty. Since I had smaller sections otherwise, it was deemed fine.
I have seen 24 students work fine in 10th grade HONORS classes. I also had 80ish students prior to working in K12 at one time. But they were also ADULTS who mentally and medically screened for the program they were in. (Technical military training.) You can add students based on maturity and willingness to be there. This is why college classes also can handle a lot of students without survival mode occurring. But you are 100% correct in a regular academic K12 environment, more than 15 or 16 is just ridiculous. The middle school classes I attended were between 25 and 30 students and were also very quiet and cooperative. But heavily tracked/leveled Gifted classes in the 90's. And expulsion retentions and suspensions were common as well. (Pre-NCLB)
This is my issue...I see the kids who's needs I simply cannot meet while tending to 20 other kids.
And don't forget that behavior kids that ends up taking almost half the class period of attention to diffuse.
And then you get “why didn’t you notify the counselor and the parent for every single kid that might not pass your class!? You need to keep better track of your students!” As if there are enough hours in the day to do that with 300 students.
Not just grades. "Why didn't you notice that kid is more withdrawn than usual?". Because I've known them for 8 weeks and see them for 90 minutes a week in a class of 32 kids and they started off being a quiet kid.
Five minute phone call to each of 300 families is 25 hours nonstop
Meanwhile the counselor and parents have access to the portal to view the grades too.
24/7 access****
You can’t teach kids who refuse to learn.
Yep, or if their basic human needs are not being met forget about it. I have a student who just sleeps because he is so sleep deprived and all his siblings. If he feels warm and safe to sleep… go ahead buddy. I don’t wake him anymore.
You are a saint for that. I can't tell you how many such kids I know who get woken up constantly and antagonized for falling asleep.
I had a 12th grader back in 2012 in my 9th grade science class, who worked a job, had a kid, another on the way, lived with his girlfriend because he was kicked out of his house (guess why) He did not need to learn stratification and uniformitarianism.
Oh, they’re learning something. Just not what’s in the lesson plan.
Kids need to be outside more. 40m of sunlight in a 7 hour day is insane
I teach 4th grade. We get 15 minutes.
Outdoor snack is how we've been able to double ours. I loathe the time on learning vantage point that administrators sometimes whip out.
No learning gets done when Jimmy and Samantha are doing cartwheels in the classroom because Middle School doesn't have recess or at least Gym class for every student every day. Yes, they still have Gym - but at the semester point they rotate out of their electives and may have Art and Music instead of Gym and Computer Tech. They need physical activity all year. Cause we know they aren't getting it outside of school for many of them.
And that's not even their fault; when there is such a shortage of bus drivers that it takes HOURS to get home in some cases, kids aren't home before dark and CAN'T safely play outside. Kids of all ages need some outdoor time.
some of the schools I work in only give the students 20 minutes, starting in grade 2. it's fucking WILD. and surprise surprise, many of those schools have high amounts of behavior difficulties.
We get 20 minutes recess for my first grade class. There is no class that comes out directly after us for recess so I try to always give them extra time. Usually 10 minutes extra. My grade partner, who is a total buzz kill, lines her class up right at the 20 minute mark and totally judges me for keeping my class out longer because “don’t I have work I need them to be doing? How will you fit this/that in if you give them all this extra play time?” Bitch they are 6 years old back the f up. I also give them a ton of brain breaks everyday and she doesn’t. Guess who’s class is always the more chill better behaved class every year? It doesn’t matter though. She is convinced she is 1,000 times better than me. God I would love to have a cool grade partner again.
I’m a mom lurker that does an after school thing once a week… we found our seven first and second graders magically can maintain focus and get work done… AFTER we’ve let them play outside for twenty minutes. Other groups gasp at our decision… and are constantly frustrated by wiggly kids with no focus.
I’m a high school teacher and last year I had a portable, so I regularly sent the rowdy ones out for “recess” with a nerf ball during homeroom. The teacher that had them afterward thanked me lol. Unfortunately I’m in an interior room this year and can’t do that.
Our district recently went through some bond voting… we have sixteen elementary schools in our district that didn’t have a gymnasium… surprise surprise… they were also the lowest performing schools. And somehow forty percent of people that voted didn’t think the gyms were worth the one penny per thousand dollars of property value or whatever tiny amount it was (my husband calculated that it would cost us personally less than $50/year).
A lot of people just don't want to help schools at all
Yeah recess is only 25 minutes once per day here. And then they go home to their devices.
Parents need to be the “bad guy” sometimes and make their kids do the work.
Edit: when a "bad guy" is needed, they have to be the bad guy *all the time*. That is their job.
To most children, enforcing any type of thing that makes them unhappy makes someone the “bad guy.” Some parents just want to be their kid’s friend, and it’s producing some quite horribly underprepared human beings.
Had a Meeting with a parent last week where she proceeded to tell us we need to MAKE her child work at school. When asked if she has a set time each day for him to do work she avoided the question by saying he tells her he has no work to do. After the meeting I received 10 messages from on our online platform, and 4 phone calls which I let go to voicemail. She just kept on and on about how we’re failing him by not making him do his work and pay attention at school.
Not all discipline can be, nor should be, positive.
Yes. This. I posted this elsewhere, but shame plays a very important role in society, and we have completely forgotten that. No, not all kids need shame, in fact most kids dont. But the ones that do, REALLY do, or they will likely never be able to function properly in society.
I had a student who got cheating bad. But who was honest enough to admit doing it for YEARS. About an hour later, they came up to me and said that they feel bad that they cheated. They were shocked (I mean full on open mouth) when I told them that it can be good to feel bad sometimes. I had to explain to them that recognizing what you did was wrong and feeling bad for it is a great first step in not repeating the behavior that got you in trouble in the first place. They still went home and told their mom that I want them to feel bad. Luckily, mom was understanding and didn't buy it for a second.
> No, not all kids need shame, in fact most kids dont. I'd argue that everyone should experience at least *some* shame at some point in their lives. We've all done something wrong and should feel a little bad about it when we do.
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There are times where I know for a fact that if I could just tell a kid, eye to eye, dead serious, that he’s being a fucking asshole, they would ACTUALLY HEAR IT.
You can pull them into the hall and do it. I've done something similar, but it was in a positive way that still involved swearing and also providing the student with advice we're explicitly not allowed to give, but the student reacted very positively and said, "That's exactly what my dad said!" Bingo. I told the kid I had plausible deniability though and that if asked, I'll deny ever having said it and there's no evidence except his word against mine, and I'll win. We really connected over that moment. I think the same can happen with discipline as well. Some kids will respect us a lot more if we were able to be more real with them.
PBIS will be the death of me.
Ah, the acronym for Pure Bull\*\*\* In School. It's killing me, too. What's the incentive to behave better when a kid behaves like a complete donkey then comes back in 15 minutes with Takis, whereas the kids who behaved like normal humans received no Takis?
-The primary purpose of public school is daycare for kids so parents can work -Kids need consequences and accountability -Disruptive students need to be removed from general classrooms to protect learning for the majority -Having kids several years behind, at grade level, several years ahead, on IEPs, and some who can’t speak English all in the same room is not least restrictive, it’s crazy. Expecting one teacher to differentiate across all those levels is unrealistic and in reality means that most kids aren’t getting their needs met
The bottom point is the kicker
Ironically being "inclusive" isn't inclusive at all.
Being “inclusive” would mean providing me with the resources to meet the needs of all my students. That’s either more time, smaller classes, teaching assistance, tech, and so on. What we do is integration which is just absolute bullshit, then admin calls it inclusion and pats themselves on the back.
No word does more heavy lifting today than the word inclusive. It's the secular version of holy
YES!! 100 % yes. We cannot possibly differentiate across the spectrum of kids they put on front of us. I teach in an Australian public school and the diversity is NOT a positive. Disruptive kids - why does the system try everything to keep them in the classroom as much and for as long as possible? It's NOT FAIR to the other kids and their learning. Consequences and accountability: Yes. If only. Our deputy principals and behaviour coaches are too friendly with the difficult kids.
Some kids would make education better for everyone by not being allowed to be at school.
Last year we had a problem child move to a different school in the middle of the year. The difference in how well the classroom functioned was night and day.
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I teach upper primary and had six of those kids last year. Six. It was Hard. Between suspensions, Buddy class withdrawals, illness and just luck all six were absent a few times, bliss. When it happened I threw out what I had planned and taught in a lighter, more interactive and hands on way. One kid commented how fun the day was the first time it happened and asked why can’t we do it all the time. An astute classmate commented that the other kids would ruin it. Shame the kids understand more about how / why we teach than our admin do.
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my class went on a “field trip” once. we went to the big field that the school owned and were looking for bugs and such in the grass with magnifying glasses. it was a really hot day, and the grass had been dry for awhile due to a heatwave. so idiots had the bright idea of trying to set the grass on fire with the magnifying glasses, it started smoking and a small flame started. the field was next to a residential area full of families with small children. luckily a teacher noticed and put the flame out. that was the end of going outside for our class lmao.
We used to go on the best field trips. Every year, there was something called the Fine Arts Fiesta and Children’s Theater Festival. We’d see a show at the festival and then walk around the fiesta for a few hours. They had booths with paintings, sculptures, etc. by local artists. You could also buy funnel cake and fresh fruit, do sand art, and have all other sorts of fun. We also went to a working Amish farm and got to jump in bales of hay from the barn loft, pet a horse, etc. One time we went to a local nature preserve and had a picnic. I think my favorite was when we got to go to the nature center and pick through deer turds to see what we could find. Just a bunch of fun stuff. I’m sad for kids today who don’t get to do these kinds of things.
I know how you feel but I do think that in some cases, with some people, a little bit of shame can be a catalyst. Or at the very least, it’s an “earned” negative feeling. We’ve all felt it before and I think a lot of parents and teachers nowadays fully believe shame will ruin a child and it’s never deserved but I think it’s one of the most important social correctors.
Same with anxiety. They are responses to situations that make us uncomfortable, and we owe it to kids to let them experience and deal with those emotions.
Yes! Sit in them and roll them over in your mind until they’re easier to process or maybe you can even find the root of it. Obviously a full blown anxiety disorder is different but I think because of how common anxiety disorders have become, everyone is quick to think all feelings of anxiety are disordered.
Natural consequences, right? Negative feelings might be uncomfortable, but they’re just as useful to us as positive feelings. If a student is acting in a way (that they can control) that makes people unhappy with them, it’s totally important that they learn how to channel that feeling into a positive change! I swear I have a “lightbulb moment” with a student every year when they finally internalize the effects of their behavior and it’s *so* valuable.
Yesss I love those moments. I’ve transitioned from teaching and coaching high schoolers to becoming a household manager so now I see the behavior play out at home! I love the mom I work for as a person but she is unfortunately the definition of a permissive parent and she shields her children from very tame, natural consequences. It makes me wonder, at what point will they receive a consequence they simply can’t turn their backs to and how big will it have to be? And if the delay of accepting consequences goes on for too long, at what point will they just become lifelong victims where they don’t believe anything they do should warrant a negative reaction and thus a negative feeling? Scary to ponder but we can only do so much.
That’s probably the *only* part of working with older kids I miss haha! I transitioned to elementary special education a few years back, but now I now have former students coming to me with problems, and it’s always an interesting experience. “Mr, one of my friends said I’m a jerk.” “Ok well… were you *being* a jerk?” “… yes” “And did that work out well for you?” “No!” “Ok so let’s fix it!”
> They all immediately pointed to and said the name of the one student who they knew I was talking about. I almost felt bad for him. Almost. But he brought it all on himself. Don’t feel bad. There’s a lot of people who need to be publicly ridiculed. Kids and adults alike.
exactly. People act like feeling embarrassed or ashamed are bad things. They feel bad, but these feelings exist for a reason. People should be ashamed that intentionally disrupt the learning of others.
Shame is a social instrument, or at least it was, that actually accomplished much of the work that we now (attempt to) do with formal sanctions. The loss of appropriately-issued shame has made our whole culture a worse place.
Yup. Shame is great when deployed properly. Unfortunately I think social media makes people take it too far, especially with kids. So now we’ve swung WAAAAAAAY in the other direction.
No they understand, but they are not for the kids or you. They are for the head count that gives the district money. It’s a business to everyone above you, and not about education.
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It’s wild how one student can change the vibe of an entire class. I had one class that was a little uppity cause it was the end of the day but I could rein them in and still laugh and enjoy the lessons. I got one additional student with an absolute crap attitude added that made everything a fight (and we use machinery so I don’t play around with any type of fuckery when it comes to safety) and it changed the whole vibe of the class. I actually had a few students go to the guidance counselors because they were so bothered by the student which I was sorta proud of because they shouldn’t have to have a class turned shitty by one kid. But alas, I’m stuck with them until June.
Some kids are fun suckers. They can ruin any good time.
Yep Kevin is a black hole for progress. If I move him, the grades of anyone near him go down. I have to redirect him dozens of times every class. Sometimes in the same sentence.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/2w3adz/an_unmistakable_cone_of_ignorance/
All of this!! And before we get slammed for depriving them of education, they just need a different environment. My district has a school for troubled kids that really helps all around.
Yep. My background is in special ed and I hate how controversial it is now to suggest something like that. “Least restrictive environment” does NOT mean “we have to put every kid in a gen ed classroom NO MATTER WHAT.” And that applies to non-EC behavior issues too. Sometimes the best thing for ALL the children, including the ones causing the trouble, is to get them into a separate setting that can better meet their needs! I’ve also seen it used in a totally wrong way where a teacher thought accommodations for a physically disabled student were “too much trouble” and wanted him moved to a separate setting special ed class even though he was on grade level! We really need to get our shit together on this. The least restrictive environment is where kids can learn the best! For a grade level physically disabled student who can make straight A’s as long as he has the equipment he needs, that is a regular classroom. For a child whose meltdowns are causing their kindergarten class to be evacuated into the hall three times a day (true story), that classroom is not the least restrictive environment for ANY child.
That's expensive, though. It's cheaper for the district to put them in a gen Ed classroom and tell teachers they must not be doing it right.
I've had admin tell me that they feel terrible every time a student has to move settings. Why? Why do you feel terrible sending a kid off to a learning environment that is better suited to them? Right now, they aren't learning at all. And neither are their classmates. Don't feel bad that we finally were able to get them where they need to be! It's not shameful to need a different setting!
This is it here. However you want to say it to try and make it sound better go for it, but it’s a stone cold fact. Removing certain kids from the school would make things better for everyone else. Period.
Yep. If we removed the worst 5% of the kids we would see almost a 100% rise in educational attainment.
THIS. 100%. There are students ruin the whole education experience for teachers AND their fellow classmates alike.
Some kids need to be left behind to safeguard the health and academic growth of the rest.
Trying to avoid being held back a grade was the only motivation some students had when I was growing up. To take that away and put all the responsibility for motivating themselves on the kid is harsh. \*edited tense of one word
More students need to be held back a grade. I like the recent approach from Mississippi, where students who don’t pass a basic reading test in grade 3 must repeat the grade.
That many of education's problems could be solved by holding parents criminally and civilly responsible for their kids. And more recently, if you have not taught a post covid class for at least a semester you should not be able to present a PD or be a school admin
Watching Ethan Crumbly’s parents in shackles, being forced to take accountability for their kid, has been what our society needs. Totally agree with you that parents need to be held accountable! And I’m not a teacher, just a parent.
> Ethan Crumbly’s parents Imagine if they both got decades in prison.
I especially like this take!
Many parents are horrible parents and somehow expect you to raise their child.
10000000% this. The number of times I have had parents ask me advice on how to get their kid to stop playing on their phone and do HW is shockingly high. Or my new favorite was getting their kid to try and get to bed on time and not stay out until 1 or 2am. Like best I can do is talk to the kid after class for a few minutes and hope for the best. How on earth do I monitor their at home habits AND correct them?
Could not agree more. I still remember the parent teacher conferences I held when I was 21 years old and how shocked I was that about a third of the parents I saw asked me for advice on how to parent their kid. As if I- a childless first time teacher who has known your kid for two months- should know better than you how to get your child to do their chores after you've been raising them for ten years.
Oh yea, my first year teaching and first PTC were eye opening. Like best I can do is say " take your kids phones away?"
And they are often completely unwilling to change anything they do at home.. they expect the school to completely raise their kids and hold them accountable, all while refusing to hold their kids accountable at home. 🙄🙄🙄
The difference between a “good school” and a “bad school” almost always comes down to parents and socioeconomic status.
100%. I teach in a “good school.” Consistently in the top 10 of a huge state. But a lot of the teachers who have worked here for 25 years are absolute crap. They’re not doing anything special in their rooms. But we DO have super rich parents who have had their kids private tutors and lessons since first grade.
Detracking is inefficient and results in mid and high performing students suffering from their peers’ constant behavior issues and lowered academic standards.
My school refuses to track or label anybody and it is a disaster for the "standard" classes. They are essentially remedial because of the ability levels and behaviors, which *also* impacts the pre-AP and AP classes. Those classes are flooded with kids who should by all means not be taking advanced classes, but we have no pre-reqs and many students want to get away from the abhorrent behaviors in the classes that are actually at their levels. (I don't blame most of them.) My department, ELA, just had a meeting with our ELL and admin teams last week about this. We have students at early elementary reading levels in our core classes expected to do high school work. It's nigh impossible for them. That puts us classroom teachers into very difficult situations because we either teach to the kids who are at grade level and half the class fails, or dumb down content and massively slow the rate of instruction and the other half if bored to death. It's a lot of pressure that should be solved by accurate placement of student, but heaven forbid we do anything like that. Somebody might feel bad, and we'd rather assuage the possibility of hurt feelings and bad social juju than do what's best for a kid and put them in a place they'll actually learn. The worst part is nobody listens or cares. I've told these same teams of colleagues that certain students in my class could not possibly pass my class. I knew this and shared this in September. Nobody cared that a kid would get zero credits and gain almost zero skills because it was so far above them.
Mainstreaming doesn't work. There's no way to teach about cell structures when I've got some kids who can't read and don't know their own last names.
Yea well wasn't mainstreaming *supposed* to originally be *only* classes where a kid *could* do the work, IF that was possible? Not a teacher. Have just witnessed parents absolutely *insisting* it means ALL classes to hell with whether or not a kid could do the work. And really combative about it.
It is now just a way for districts to avoid spending money to provide special education classes that would actually benefit the children.
Exactly, it's not like they give a shit about those kids.
If somehow people didn't know from the start this was a terrible idea, as soon as districts started bragging about their "inclusion percentage" it should have been abundantly clear that this was 100% not done for the benefit of students.
Schools and systems are way more concerned about how decisions are perceived by the public than whether or not they benefit the students. Cellphone policies are one great example….comments on social media drive decision making. I also get about 5 emails a week from school system asking me to vote for some person in our district for some random award and if they win, it is promoted as though it is an indication of how successful our system is.
Responsibility roles should be given to children who are responsible and not awarded to badly behaved kids to try to motivate them.
cautious fact divide weather spectacular lush late soft head simplistic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes! My schools absolutely refused to pull kids off the sports team because "Then they won't have any reason to want to come to school." What??
Restorative justice only works when there are boundaries and lines you cannot cross. There's a level between little Jimmy said fuck in class and little Jimmy set a fire in class. You can't treat both the same. Inclusion classrooms only hurts kids. You will never achieve full equity. People are too different. Most of these things are done for the appearance of doing something than actually doing something Parents need to parent their kids. We're not their parents. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being 20 and finishing high school. Or getting your GED.
When little Jimmy says fuck, he gets put in the time out chair, but when he sets a fire, he should probably be suspended.
Class sizes are too big for me to adequately care for more than 2 years of “range” Also? Composite classes suck. Eg. I taught 3/4 before I taught a straight 5 last year. In Australia (idk if in all states) we have a “9 point system” where there are 3 levels below grade level E, D, D+ (approximately) but all grouped as “well below/Below grade standard” then C-, C (grade level expected), C+, all grouped together as “grade standard”, then B, B+ A grouped together as “above/well above grade standard”. Approximately it means that C is at grade level (so where someone should be for that grade) while a b is approximately working one grade level above, and a is appropriately 2. That is the same at the lower end too, approximately one to two years below grade level. That’s not a perfect example but I know not everyone is Aussie here so that’s the best I can do. So if you take my 3/4 class of 30 students and make it so exactly 15 are 3s and 15 are 4s, that means I have kids that are working from: Grade 1 and below, all the way up to grade 6 and above. I’m only supposed to be teaching 2 year groups. Why does that all of a sudden become the scope of the entire primary curriculum. It’s too much differentiation. You’d have kids anywhere on those 9 points, and you need to tailor it up and down to allow for the collection of evidence of that grade (which we also have to physically collect) So not only do I say, have to have Johnny’s sample of work saying that he didn’t understand/achieve grade level, I also have to have something that shows what he can achieve. Teaching a straight five still meant that I had similar range, but it meant I could focus on one core curriculum at one grade level and slide up and down on either end rather than having to match up 2 to the best of my ability and slide up and down both ends. Edit- typos
Some students are less gifted than others
This is an understatement. I teach at a university where every student was at the top of their high school class. And yet I still find it shocking how much more intelligent the students at the top of my classes are compared even to those in the middle.
I learned this in law school. I was the best in all schools I went to including college. 99.4 percentile on LSAT. I got into one of the top law schools in the country. I was bang average for the first time. And the girl that was top of my class blew me out of the water in both raw intelligence and work ethic. And surely there are people out there that would destroy her too.
Kick problem kids out
Teaching in a private school I see this play out and it really is vital to the health and direction of the school as a whole. I’m thankful we can make those tough choices.
It’s better to embarrass the hell out of an asshole kid and put them in their place, teaching them the life lesson of “watch what you fucking do and say” among peers within the safe incubation of a classroom, rather than let them learn it the hard way on the street during adulthood. I’m doing God’s work when knocking kids down a few pegs. Edit: just noting that I don’t do it maliciously or nasty or in a humiliating way. I do it calmly and almost subtly. Just enough to make them think about and maybe reflect.
Except now the teacher is recorded, the recording is viewed out of context, and the teacher gets persecuted.
Constantly mainstreaming special ed kids and choosing their learning over having an effective classroom for everyone else.
You can't expect a teacher dealing with large classes and/or a tight schedule to build a personal relationship with every student, let alone adjusting their classes to take everyone's interests, personal quirks etc. into account.
School doesn't make that big of a difference for a lot of kids compared to home. I've worked at fancy private schools with shit teachers and urban public schools with great teachers and it doesn't matter. We're like 15% of how a kid turns out max, but society acts like we're 95%. edit: Editing because I feel mild ethical guilt over the melodrama of my statement. Of course having a teacher that is skilled and cares makes a difference, especially for kids from tougher situations, but my point is that my 18 years has taught me the difference really isn't very big. I've poured my heart into classes in Oakland CA and watched them mostly still struggle in life, and I've chilled my ass off at a private international school and watched them all breeze off to nice colleges.
I love this, and have to remind myself of it constantly. My principal acts like the 45 minutes a day that we see these kids will make or break their *entire lives*. I’m like… I can barely remember who my HS science teachers were, let alone anything I learned from them. We are just one of many stepping stones in kids’ lives.
Exactly. I focus on what I DO remember about my HS teachers and try to use that. I remember one teacher for always being kind. I remember another because he never remembered my name. I know what I want my students to remember about me and focus on that. The content is secondary. They may or may not ever use it.
There are students who indeed can be a “bad person”
Yes this. I had a student who was 16 and in court for sex trafficking 7th graders.
That’s what I was going to say - some of my students will end up in jail. I’ve only had maybe 4 I felt this way about in my 13 year career. They were all diagnosed as oppositional defiant disorder or emotionally and behaviorally disturbed. Similar to the kid who shot the teacher in Norfolk VA. Those kids need intensive therapy, and even then I don’t know, but public school is not it.
I had a kid last year who I told to their face that they weren't a good person. He changed his tune after that. Calling out bullies works sometimes.
Some kids will never progress beyond a primary school understanding no matter how many resources are used.
This, I have kids in my classes that haven't passed a course in YEARS but somehow the system advances them and now I get to try to teach them things they should have known years ago while teaching the actual current course material.
I got a student about two months ago who is non verbal, he does no work, we aren’t even sure he’s capable, he’s never passed any class yet he’s a junior. His mother has always refused to have him tested, but I think we convinced her finally.
at what point is refusing to have an obviously disabled kid tested criminal parental neglect? that poor boy could have spent his life being taught alternative communication methods, life skills, and how to accommodate himself. maybe he'd even have been able to learn some of the regular curriculum in a different way. instead, he probably just feels stupid and useless, and all his teachers are frustrated and helpless. *ugh*
I have one junior who immigrated last year from Latin America who didn’t understand 2 weeks ago that Ds and Fs are bad. Her dad blamed me for her grades even though we’re a special program and I provide everything in Spanish.
We need to hold some kids back. They’ll be okay.
I was an EL kid and held back in 1st grade. Ended up with a Masters. Being held back was exactly what I needed.
We spend more and more money on students every year but the scores keep going down or staying the same. So, more money doesn’t equal more learning. But teachers still don’t get paid enough and we still get the same crappy budgets every year.
Anything at all to do with "nature vs nurture." We are forced to pretend that intelligence and academic achievement is 100% nurture and 0% nature.
Teachers quitting within the first few years because their health is declining is a good decision. “Most people aren’t cut out for teaching.” Teaching is too demanding of a profession for most people, and I don’t blame them for thinking so.
I started feeling bad when I realized I was becoming less and less emotionally invested in my students. I figured out that’s me becoming what I need to be to make it in the long run in teaching.
25 years ago when things were far better, half of all teachers quit before their 5th year. They just didn't know enough to make it work. Now, it feels like it's down to three years. And it's the smart teachers who realize that the pay, workload, and constant danger just aren't worth it. Instead of setting so many teachers up to fail, we need to make teaching safe and reasonable. Admin must take back all the responsibilities, particularly discipline, that they've dumped on the backs of teachers.
Most of the people who drop out are not "not cut out for teaching"—they are no cut out for the brutal public education system that disregards their health.
Yeah, teaching shouldn’t be so demanding.
I think about this one a lot as I did quit at the end of this previous summer. I could’ve kept up with and enjoyed my coworkers, but knew it wasn’t for me. Plenty of people understood and my building had high turnover anyways, but some definitely saw me as “not cut out for it”, which I always thought was funny since they were miserable and just killing the clock to retirement. I was student teaching when COVID hit, my first year was full on emergency mode for the entire industry, and the later years were full of the post-COVID issues we all know. I didn’t quit because I was weak, I quit because this specific job, in this specific time, is clearly unsustainable or unreasonable for someone not already entrenched within the system or filled with a “calling”. It seemed like the smart thing to get out early if I knew I wouldn’t stay till retirement.
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I don’t even coddle my preschoolers and you can vet there is a night and day difference between my class and the others.
Direct instruction is the most effective method to teach the majority of the class. We aren't actually data driven since we are beholden to the scope and sequence with little to no ability to modify this. Bell to bell instruction is In direct conflict with SEL. On this note, the brain needs time to process things and constant high rigor questioning means most students are not getting this. It makes more sense to teach homogeneous concepts despite student ages. I don't have any idea on logistics but it would be better to pull all students who need to learn the letter sounds despite their age, then blends, etc. In my concept you don't leave your learning cohort until you test out of the skill. So if you are 10 and don't know your letter sounds, you are still grouped with Kindergarten aged students.
Restorative justice is ineffective in most cases. Teachers are not supported properly by admin in a lot of schools; they’re afraid to do anything. Every administrator needs to spend at least a week teaching a class, perhaps an unruly one, each semester. This might give them increased empathy for their teachers and help them see what it’s like to be in the trenches again. I think admin numbs out and forgets what it’s like. Edited for grammar
Restorative justice only works if the children engaging in restorative justice value the community.
>Restorative justice only works if the children engaging in restorative justice value the community. And they don't, because Admin replaces that part with "a conversation" and usually a lollipop.
I think restorative justice is a response to the school to prison pipeline, but I feel like it’s a two way street. Yeah, we should be conscious of whether we are being overly punitive…but also consequences are still needed. You can have consequences without harming relationships. Especially because if a kid never has consequences, once they’re an adult they will fuck up and end up in jail and be confused because they’ve never been punished before.
The socioeconomic background of a student makes a much much bigger impact on a student's learning than any of us would like to admit. Obviously, there are exceptions, but in general, an average middle-class student is going to do better than an average lower-class student.
Most education college courses are useless. No one writes 5 page lesson plans. All examples are also idealized classes.
I am not a martyr, and I'm just doing this job for the money and the summers off.
I’m doing it for state retirement.
Professionals (teachers, therapists, etc.) need an avenue to communicate to parents that their parenting is the cause of the child’s behaviors, not the school.
As a sped teacher for students with significant and profound disabilities, my students can't learn in the gen ed classroom. The things we are working on aren't even remotely the same, and it stresses my kids out to the max. Inclusion is best during non-instrctional times (recess, lunch, specials/electives, assemblies, class parties, ect.). I'm tired of mandatory commitees and meetings.
Your sped kid is passing because it’s easier to pass him along than actually teach him. He’ll graduate incredibly unprepared for the real world. He’s not “overcoming his disability,” he’s being ignored and pushed through.
+1, but I would extend that to a lot of mainstream kids as well.
The average IQ in regular classrooms (non honors or AP) is below 100. If you take the entire population of your school (about 1800 high school students for me), the average is gonna be close to 100. But many of the students in the upper end will flock to honors and AP course, which by default brings down the average in regular classes. I teach advanced and regular and the difference is pretty massive. In my regular classes, about 1/3 of students can't look at 2 maps of the same place and figure out that it's the same.
Our honors classes have become our college prep classes... They are the kids that will be adequately prepared for college. Our general level classes, which are described as college prep, are basically remedial skills...we're still teaching analysis paragraph structure to sophomores who are still unable to "pick a transition from list #1" when given two lists of transitions and "put it in the appropriate place" (next to a box that says transition #1). Many kids in those classes think they're going to college, but there's no way they'll be successful. Our lower level classes, meant for skill recovery or non-college bound kids, are filled with immature kids who just have no skills and no work ethic, so no skills are ever recovered. They are basically bare minimum stone steppers to graduate that many kids still fail due to attendance.
Some students are only smart enough to work minimum wage jobs and that’s okay. We need people like that in the workforce, too
There should be entrance exams into every grade level. I have seniors who still cant multiply and divide, yet I have to waste my time and energy in trying to teach them algebra 2 when it is impossible for them. There is a reason that I am not the starting pitcher for the Yankees..I don’t have the ability to pitch. And guess what, if I tried really hard and practiced a ton, I still could not pitch for the Yankees. This is the same with some students and academics, math in particular. Some will just never get it…
Middle schoolers and high schoolers should have recess and even playgrounds just like the elementary schools.
The reason why teachers aren't paid well is partially because it's a female-driven field, but also because the government knows it can take advantage of "moral obligation", and thus expectation of free emotional labor from teachers, rather than an actual salary.
Free emotional labor hits so hard. I think that’s what burns us out the quickest. You give it all to other people kids and have nothing left for your family and friends.
There's a lot of teachers that make it worse. Every time I hear any teacher say they do it for the kids I always say back, it's a job and we deserve to have job money
I’m not sure about the rest of the US, but in my neck of the woods instruction is less about learning/memorizing facts and events and more about thinking critically to come to your own conclusion. I believe this is great for high schoolers, especially juniors and seniors. However, we’ve also shifted that in our lower grades, such as middle school and even late elementary. How can we ask students to think critically about an event in history if they have no idea what even happened? That’s the gist of it but I’ve seen it happening more often.
Middle school kids need recess. They need time to learn how to play or socialize in a healthy way.
As a martial arts instructor: Some kids (read: bullies) really just need a punch in the face. The number of times I've seen a kid with behavioral issues get into sparring and finally get hit back, and suddenly, they no longer wanna bully people is insanely high. I honestly think many of them just don't realize how much what they're doing actually hurts other kids.
1. Education system would be more efficient if we did the opposite of no child left behind. Some kids are dragging down everyone. 2. Parents need to be held accountable for their kids absences/failures 3. Not everyone is meant to go thru k-12. 9-12 should have vocational options. 4. LRE is placing undue burdens on teachers. 5. Standardized tests are a complete waste of time & energy. 6. There’s a reason why there’s less turnover at the affluent schools 7. Teachers aren’t donating their time. Quit making the education system about “loving the kids and doing it for them.” Fuck them kids, they better start paying or there won’t be any left.
"No Child Left Behind" = "Slowest Child Sets The Pace". That kills education.
NCLB ruined Ed. Some kids just need to try again, be held back, aren't astrophysicists, etc... We need all sorts in this world, and all jobs should make a living wage. Thrusting the same path upon each student and forcing them to conform has destroyed education. Kids get pushed along and passed from the ground up. By the time they become a senior, they have zero skills and can't even read.
Teaching is a job, not a calling
Since COVID no one cares about their child being educated, just keep them out of the house for 8 hours a day and don’t bother the parents.
Restorative justice is neither.
1--There *are* bad kids. 1a--Statistically, at least 1% of children have antisocial personality disorder and/or full-on psychopathy. 2--There are unteachable kids. 3--There are kids who, no matter what interventions you could *ever* give, money being no object, will never learn to read. 4--Statistically, some of your kids are going to go to prison. 5--not every kid belongs on or deserves to be forced into a university-stream. Not every kid is going to love reading. Some kids just like being social and will get social jobs, and you don't need a degree for that. 6--Some kids will try to wreck your career if you piss them off. See 1 and 4. 7--Some of your colleagues will be engaged in some degree of sexual abuse of a minor. Not all will be men. 8--Your principal is not your friend. There are lots more. These come to mind.
It’s okay not to like a student. I really really try but there is always one. And I am always evaluating myself to make sure I’m not treating them differently.
Some kids are just "school dumb." You could give them all the resources in the world and the best teachers in the world - it wouldn't matter. Doesn't mean they can't be nice, hard working, or hold a job. They just aren't school smart.
Oooh… I have several! 1. Some students can’t. It’s not “can’t yet,” but just can’t. 2. Disruptive students don’t deserve to be in general population classes. 3. Required schooling goes too long in this country. We need to cut I’d down and have multiple paths for what to do next. (This isn’t one I’m afraid to say at work.)
Putting high needs kids in regular classroom is not ‘inclusion’ and often makes them feel more isolated than they would be in spaces designed for their needs.
High schoolers need recess, too. Let those kids play. Let them have fun. Let them be clowns.
School districts are on the hook for the education of all students, and because of sped and civil rights laws, the students who are least likely to ever become independent citizens cost 100s of times more than general education students. Kids who are severely disabled can cost a school district millions of dollars per year. One nonverbal, IQ of 62, violent, and non-potty trained child can cost a district 23 million dollars throughout their time in pre-k to age 26.
You'd think with that kind of money they could afford to give the paras better than a dime above minimum wage.
A lot of teachers (edit: a lot, not most) are too dumb to do their jobs properly. There are a number of kids who simply should not be in the classroom. "Preparing kids for college" should not be the primary goal, and things like literacy and basic mathematics are much more important (ie: the three R's, so to speak). More money thrown at the problem doesn't improve outcomes for students. Phonics beats whatever circlejerk method some moron came up with a few years back. Kids absolutely need to memorize certain information, like multiplication tables. Administration needs to be cut back substantially. Harsher punishments and removal from the classroom need to happen more often and should be the standard instead of the exception for kids who want to disrupt. The majority of kids should not be making an A unless they show actual mastery of the material (which I think is potentially possible in an ideal environment).
I agree with the harsher punishments and removal from school for the most unwieldy students. And I also feel it’s fair to acknowledge that most (maybe all) of those worst students have really crappy backgrounds and home lives. In light of this, I also feel that our education department should invest in alternative programs besides education to occupy the kid’s time until they mature enough to appreciate school. (Ie. High schoolers could Work in the national forest, do grunt work for the city, etc.). Also, non traditional pathways for people to complete their education after a school removal should be made more available. Edit: I spent years working in a developing country where half the kids dropped out and back into school based on financial hardship. It was not as stigmatized to be an older student. Also, many missionary complexes hosted alternative education centers for adult learners. It was a sad reality that economics prevented a straight k-12 pathway. But the beauty of allowing students flexibility was something that I’ve wondered about in the US. We need to better normalize and celebrate students completing their education at any stage of life.
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My roommate in university failed the Indiana Praxis twice.
>The majority of kids should not be making an A unless they show actual mastery of the material (which I think is potentially possible in an ideal environment I think it's beyond potentially possible - it should be the expectation. If only a small minority of students can master the content of the standards in an ideal environment - that's a problem with the standards, not the students or the teaching
The biggest reason kids are grade levels behind has far more to do with lousy parents than lousy teachers.
1. "That's a hill I'm not willing to die on" is an excuse that makes it difficult for other teachers to uphold common/schoolwide expectations. It is also an indication that there are too many battles a teacher has to fight just to make it through the day. 2. By the time a kid hits HS, "hand-holding" or "1-on-1" time is ridiculous and needlessly time consuming. They should be on the path of independent work without someone having to prod them along or "incentivizing them." 3. The kid choosing not to do the work is wasting space in the classroom and is a behavior liability. 4. We're not counselors, preachers (or other form of clergy), or parents. Stop making us do SEL. 5. A students self-concept or "feelings" cannot be a determinant in deciding what's best for them. Part of growing up is recognizing you can't be motivated solely by the feeling you have in the moment. Another part is accepting that you do sometimes fail to meet goals or that you do crappy things. 6. Ban phones. You cannot make a lesson on the Industrial Revolution, supplementary angles, anaerobic respiration, or Shakespeare more engaging than a device designed to be addictive. 7. PD after the second or third year of teaching is ultimately a waste of time. Reduce the number of hours a teacher needs to attend with each year of experience. There are others, but I think they've already been said.
>That's a hill I'm not willing to die on I'll start dying on it as soon as Admin starts giving out consequences for it. Fair? I'm not dress coding a 17 year old girl and getting all of the "why are you looking in the first place, creep" shit when I know the Admin isn't going to do anything even if I do write them up.
Inclusion education benefits no one. Many teachers are bad at this job. Masters- and Doctorate-level degrees in education generally aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on in comparison to degrees in other disciplines.
Piggy-backing! Don't get an education in education. You can always get teacher certified, but get YOURSELF an education in something else that you can fall back on. This job is NOT for everyone, and even if it is for you, you may not want it for the next 20 years.
Inclusion (90% of the time) does not work. There are bad teachers.
In a highly divided society, there is no one teaching strategy that will satisfy all stakeholders. What is best for an individual child is not always what their parent or teacher insists is best for them and in fact the parent and teacher may fundamentally disagree on what will best position a kid for success and happiness in this world. In case of a disagreement on principle neither the teacher nor the parent is necessarily right, and in fact the adult with more/louder support is also not necessarily right.
There are too many kids to a classroom. By far.
STUDENTS SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERPERFORMING NEED TO BE HELD BACK. Pushing them through the system with “passing” grades is a disservice to them, their peers, and their teachers
The value of content and rigor is being shunted in place of tolerance.
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