Meeting the parents can really drive home the fact that some kids don’t stand much of a chance. We can teach until we’re blue in the face but we can’t save them from the crappy lessons they learn at home. Parents like this make me so mad. They’re destroying their own children.
That's why we got some speech about "the best outcomes come from having consistent teachers", and I just rolled my eyes. Being "consistent", or whatever buzzword they're going with this year, doesn't matter when we're teaching kids mired in generational abuse and poverty. *Parental income* is the biggest indicator of student performance, not "teacher consistency" or wtfever.
We have had teachers blamed for "not being able to reach" kids with chronic misbehavior, absenteeism, etc. The truth actually was, in order to solve that kid's issues, the teacher would have to get the parent into a stable relationship, stable housing, a stable job, and mental and physical health care.
Yep. I had ten kids fail this year, 7 were attendance issues. 2 never came, and 2 came a dozen times or less for the year. I'm not a magician and I'm certainly not their teacher.
Parents need to be accountable for the most basic things like their child attending high school.
It's also clear for those who answer the phone at jails. In dealing with the families, providing information like charges and court dates and bail... you get to know how little the fruit travelled from the tree. You feel terrible for the situation and you know that issues start early on in life and I feel like when public school staff see the issues it's not hard to Envision this part of our society, the incarcerated. :( I was teaching before I worked at a jail and then I went back to teaching to try to make a difference.
Something my biology professor said stuck with me. "Choose your parents wisely"...
This nails it. I find families that teach their kids the world is evil and out to get them are the main commonality in producing not great children. However, I've seen this be true for highly religious and conservative families but ALSO for extremely liberal and "progressive" families just as much.
In the sense that climate collapse is out to get all of us, they're right. Ironically they don't believe in that reality but do believe in an alternate, fake reality. It's infuriating, but I think collectively as a species we deserve it. If what the lowest and meanest of us are capable of is possible, it doesn't matter about the best and most noble are capable of.
I long for a return to using openly punitive measures in schools for pre-determined bad behaviors witnessed by multiple employees. We've lost our resolve, but it is not too late. Education needs to be a privilege, not a right. Ignore the rules too many times, then hit the streets kid.
Apples don't fall far from trees. My ex-husband owned a small local business and we'd frequently exchange stories about our days and more often than not, 7th grade idiots had idiot parents that he'd grown up with.
One of our biggest Trump families has a high school son who anonymously emailed a teacher all kinds of sexual threats repeatedly. The younger one wrote “REDRUM” on a paper he was to hand in.
I was on a 2 hour train ride with this family. Omg, 5 totally feral children from maybe 9 to 2 just running wild all over the train. The parents definitely looked impoverished and certainly had no interest in caring for the 5 kids they've made.
Not even my worst or most poverty stricken but just a shitty brat of a 5th grader I once had is now in G8. He recently hit his mom. Like he wailed off on her as a 13 year old budding man. She raised an iPad baby and flip flopped around with his ADHD meds when she should have been focusing on her sons screen addiction and now she has a boy who hits her if she tries to lay down the law about anything especially his phone.
I have nothing but pity for the whole family
Wow! Thank you.
18 years in and this was my first time with the "rot".
I was taught, "It's not an apple, but a nut. And when the nut falls off the tree it rolls down hill."
Hate it all you want - we're supposed to teach CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS to our students. The conclusion drawn reflects the bias of the teacher, and the down votes reflect the bias of the sub. Additionally, I show no support for Trump in my statement either - the conclusion should have been "both sides of this spectrum have morons supporting different political beliefs".
From Google: A hasty generalization fallacy is a claim made on the basis of insufficient evidence. Instead of looking into examples and evidence that are much more in line with the typical or average situation, you draw a conclusion about a large population using a small, unrepresentative sample.
False equivalency fallacy.
The Proud Boys are a militant terrorist and hate group. Hillary and Biden are members of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is a political party in the US.
The Democratic Party is NOT a militant terrorist and hate group.
Implying that these groups ought to be treated the same exact way in a public setting, wherein we have a responsibility to create a safe environment for our students to learn in, is a false equivalency.
You talk about promoting critical thinking, but maybe you should work on that yourself, first. And maybe brush up on those reading comprehension skills a little bit, too.
Also… downvotes ≠ bias. But even if they did, I am **proudly** biased against fascist militant terrorist groups.
Which fallacy is it when you see someone base a conclusion on years of observation and then you label their conclusion a "hasty generalization"? I don't think I'm the only teacher who has seen a years-long trend of Trumpy kids scoring lower on reading and critical thinking assignments, at a much more pronounced level than progressive kids.
It's not hard to pick through this sub and find dozens of posts with hundreds of comments and agreement of teachers and progressive areas.
Non-white students getting preferential treatments, passing with lower scores, being told by administration not to be punished for behavior. What's the years-long trend on non-Trump kids? In progressive states where they're scoring so badly there are moving requirements for graduation?
>What's the years-long trend on non-Trump kids?
They're just kids. I haven't seen a correlation between progressive beliefs in kids and academic performance. You get some in your AP classes, you get some in your college prep classes, you get some in your struggling low-level classes. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the beliefs of admin or the area, because that's a whole different discussion. All I'm saying is I've noticed a definite correlation between support for Donald Trump and academic performance. You might think that's teacher bias, but that doesn't track for me. Usually they'll have firmly displayed trouble with reading and critical thinking and had those troubles represented for months in their grades before I learn of their political leanings. I see a correlation with Trumpy kids that I just don't see with progressive kids. If you can find someone in the classroom who's found the opposite, that'd be interesting and I'd love to hear about it, but your eagerness to change the subject away from that and over to progressive adults suggests I shouldn't hold my breath.
Politics aside, I find it odd that you think the “majority” of students (AND their parents) will never be able to achieve the level of a bachelor’s degree (or its equivalent). Do you just have really low expectations for your students?
In my state, the median salary according to several reputable websites is around $50,000. I don’t make that much. Where are you getting that teachers make double the amount that your average student’s parent makes?
What's your point? That right wing radicals really care about their children? That they're anti-authoritarian and exercise their rights against public authority trying to punish their children? (Which is what a detention is)
"His son was rude, aggressive, lazy, a cheater, a thief, a racist"
you know if you describe a kindergartner accurately, they'll sound pretty awful too.
Frankly I’m mostly concerned that you’re describing ‘get your crappy kid out of facing consequences’ as exercising rights against ‘public authority trying to punish their children’ like it’s a bad thing.
If you have kids, I’m curious to hear how you’ve responded to them earning a detention at school, if public education is your thing of course
As someone who has taught at both, let me say that in my experience private schools usually give out way more detentions than public schools lol. So public school doesn't have to be their experience for them to be able to speak on this
Oh for sure. Their reference to being punished by public authority is what I was addressing. It sounds like they’re criticizing the existence of it? Like private authority is somehow better…
I know right? How dare a parent have any say on a detention. Or a disciplinary report. Or my grading autonomy.
Even if he sues, as a public schoolteacher I have qualified immunity.
A whiny parent should be treated like a whiny student. Ignored.
“I don’t want to have detention” that’s why it’s a punishment.
Maybe admin has gotten a bit too permissive? Why would parents have a say about any of this
Public school teachers do not have qualified immunity. In fact they are often held responsible for things well outside their control or the scope of their job.
Public school teachers do have qualified immunity. Because we exercise public authority.
Whether the defense is raised or not is a lawyer issue.
And teachers are fairly judgement proof, it doesn't really matter unless they were independently wealthy.
Any criminal law class should teach this basic fact. You could also look it up.
Do you even know where your authority is derived from? It’s not contractual.
It’s derived from your governor.
https://www.slrma.org/news/civil-rights/1268-qualified-immunity-a-powerful-defense-against-students-constitutional-violation-claims
You really went all this time without knowing? That’s awful, you really should have been informed
I don't have authority. I'm a teacher. Admin has authority. And this still not address the fact that teachers are not protected from anything, and suffer consequences for things beyond the scope of their role.
I gave you a link detailing how teacher’s public authority protects them from plenty of civil lawsuits.
“Suffer consequences for things beyond the scope of their role” even absolute immunity (like judges and prosecutors) wouldn’t protect against that.
Yeah but there have been cases where immunity wasn’t granted either (Price as next friend of J.K. v. Mueller- Owens) so it’s not just flat out IMMUNITY. It’s based on what you did.
Are you suggesting that inner-city kids can't be "... rude, aggressive, lazy, a cheater, a thief, a racist, and more..."?
However, in the interest of fairness, I can't think of too many inner-cities where you would find a dad looking like this: "there was dad, wearing a Proud Boys t-shirt, a MAGA hat and barely holding his jeans up under his enormous beer belly with a Confederate flag belt buckle," so no, they probably wouldn't describe an inner-city dad like this. Good catch there.
Meeting the parents can really drive home the fact that some kids don’t stand much of a chance. We can teach until we’re blue in the face but we can’t save them from the crappy lessons they learn at home. Parents like this make me so mad. They’re destroying their own children.
But "parental rights"!
Muh Liberties!
...cannot override the individual human rights of their children!
To be fair, "not being a jackass slacker" is unfortunately not a human necessity, apparently.
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So you’re saying she hated the kid cause he was poor? Not because he was a racist asshole?
That's why we got some speech about "the best outcomes come from having consistent teachers", and I just rolled my eyes. Being "consistent", or whatever buzzword they're going with this year, doesn't matter when we're teaching kids mired in generational abuse and poverty. *Parental income* is the biggest indicator of student performance, not "teacher consistency" or wtfever. We have had teachers blamed for "not being able to reach" kids with chronic misbehavior, absenteeism, etc. The truth actually was, in order to solve that kid's issues, the teacher would have to get the parent into a stable relationship, stable housing, a stable job, and mental and physical health care.
Yep. I had ten kids fail this year, 7 were attendance issues. 2 never came, and 2 came a dozen times or less for the year. I'm not a magician and I'm certainly not their teacher. Parents need to be accountable for the most basic things like their child attending high school.
Even MTSS has its limits.
It's also clear for those who answer the phone at jails. In dealing with the families, providing information like charges and court dates and bail... you get to know how little the fruit travelled from the tree. You feel terrible for the situation and you know that issues start early on in life and I feel like when public school staff see the issues it's not hard to Envision this part of our society, the incarcerated. :( I was teaching before I worked at a jail and then I went back to teaching to try to make a difference. Something my biology professor said stuck with me. "Choose your parents wisely"...
Thankfully the brighter kids get repulsed by their parents and pull a 180 sometimes.
Not nearly enough. Those anomalies are anomalies.
But you know... Everyone is just out to get them. The deep state is rigged against them.
This nails it. I find families that teach their kids the world is evil and out to get them are the main commonality in producing not great children. However, I've seen this be true for highly religious and conservative families but ALSO for extremely liberal and "progressive" families just as much.
In the sense that climate collapse is out to get all of us, they're right. Ironically they don't believe in that reality but do believe in an alternate, fake reality. It's infuriating, but I think collectively as a species we deserve it. If what the lowest and meanest of us are capable of is possible, it doesn't matter about the best and most noble are capable of.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
It is the “world is evil” part that is the recipe for failure.
Sounds like they hate America to me.
Yup! Mass indoctrination!
Modeling is an extremely effective way to teach
I keep hearing people talking about modeling. How do runways in Paris help students in the US? ;) /s
In some instances it's more like trash and trash can than apple and tree.
That dude probably blames Obama for his sons bad grades
Well, who else could it be? /s
Kamala Harris, of course.
Let them get gobbled up by their own failures.
This is what gets me through kids and parents like this. They will suffer the consequences of their choices eventually.
I long for a return to using openly punitive measures in schools for pre-determined bad behaviors witnessed by multiple employees. We've lost our resolve, but it is not too late. Education needs to be a privilege, not a right. Ignore the rules too many times, then hit the streets kid.
Apples don't fall far from trees. My ex-husband owned a small local business and we'd frequently exchange stories about our days and more often than not, 7th grade idiots had idiot parents that he'd grown up with.
One of our biggest Trump families has a high school son who anonymously emailed a teacher all kinds of sexual threats repeatedly. The younger one wrote “REDRUM” on a paper he was to hand in.
I found some people are good at making kids but have no idea on how to parent!
I was on a 2 hour train ride with this family. Omg, 5 totally feral children from maybe 9 to 2 just running wild all over the train. The parents definitely looked impoverished and certainly had no interest in caring for the 5 kids they've made.
Not even my worst or most poverty stricken but just a shitty brat of a 5th grader I once had is now in G8. He recently hit his mom. Like he wailed off on her as a 13 year old budding man. She raised an iPad baby and flip flopped around with his ADHD meds when she should have been focusing on her sons screen addiction and now she has a boy who hits her if she tries to lay down the law about anything especially his phone. I have nothing but pity for the whole family
The apple doesn’t rot far from the tree.
Wow! Thank you. 18 years in and this was my first time with the "rot". I was taught, "It's not an apple, but a nut. And when the nut falls off the tree it rolls down hill."
Somehow I am NOT shocked by your description of dad
Stop indoctrinating kids! That’s why he got a (checks notes) 10 percent
The shit apple always falls from a shit apple orchard.
They really let just anybody make babies, but I have to buy a license to fish...
MAGA is an ideology built around not taking responsibility, so it makes sense
Life is soooo good. Sooooo ironic. Just appreciate the irony.
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I don't think eugenics is the answer.
The only good fascist is a dead fascist.
That's an ironic statement.
Blah blah you don’t understand the tolerance paradox lol shove it.
If you have a better one, I'm all ears.
Respect for your fellow human beings.
I love it when somebody with a patently rude username comes out with an aggressively Kumbaya platitude.
I would describe as more vulgar than rude, but you're welcome. Have a great day.
who tf is ligma
Maybe you if you play your cards right
Definitely a case of “Tree, meet apple. “
This is what I like to call a "No more questions, your honor!" moment.
nice LARP lol. You guys eat this up its hilarious
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Funny, I've dealt with similar who have old Hillary and Biden stickers on their cars. Strange.
100%
Same. I met people on both side that are terrible people political affiliation doesn’t imply if they are good people or bad people.
Hate it all you want - we're supposed to teach CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS to our students. The conclusion drawn reflects the bias of the teacher, and the down votes reflect the bias of the sub. Additionally, I show no support for Trump in my statement either - the conclusion should have been "both sides of this spectrum have morons supporting different political beliefs". From Google: A hasty generalization fallacy is a claim made on the basis of insufficient evidence. Instead of looking into examples and evidence that are much more in line with the typical or average situation, you draw a conclusion about a large population using a small, unrepresentative sample.
False equivalency fallacy. The Proud Boys are a militant terrorist and hate group. Hillary and Biden are members of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is a political party in the US. The Democratic Party is NOT a militant terrorist and hate group. Implying that these groups ought to be treated the same exact way in a public setting, wherein we have a responsibility to create a safe environment for our students to learn in, is a false equivalency. You talk about promoting critical thinking, but maybe you should work on that yourself, first. And maybe brush up on those reading comprehension skills a little bit, too. Also… downvotes ≠ bias. But even if they did, I am **proudly** biased against fascist militant terrorist groups.
Amen. It’s not the MAGA hat that is the issue here, really. The Proud Boys shirt trumps all. (No pun intended, I swear.)
Which fallacy is it when you see someone base a conclusion on years of observation and then you label their conclusion a "hasty generalization"? I don't think I'm the only teacher who has seen a years-long trend of Trumpy kids scoring lower on reading and critical thinking assignments, at a much more pronounced level than progressive kids.
It's not hard to pick through this sub and find dozens of posts with hundreds of comments and agreement of teachers and progressive areas. Non-white students getting preferential treatments, passing with lower scores, being told by administration not to be punished for behavior. What's the years-long trend on non-Trump kids? In progressive states where they're scoring so badly there are moving requirements for graduation?
>What's the years-long trend on non-Trump kids? They're just kids. I haven't seen a correlation between progressive beliefs in kids and academic performance. You get some in your AP classes, you get some in your college prep classes, you get some in your struggling low-level classes. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the beliefs of admin or the area, because that's a whole different discussion. All I'm saying is I've noticed a definite correlation between support for Donald Trump and academic performance. You might think that's teacher bias, but that doesn't track for me. Usually they'll have firmly displayed trouble with reading and critical thinking and had those troubles represented for months in their grades before I learn of their political leanings. I see a correlation with Trumpy kids that I just don't see with progressive kids. If you can find someone in the classroom who's found the opposite, that'd be interesting and I'd love to hear about it, but your eagerness to change the subject away from that and over to progressive adults suggests I shouldn't hold my breath.
Meh. I can see that argument when talking about political parties. But a Proud Boys shirt? Nah.
My guy, you replied to your own comment.
Yep. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Yeah, you're full of shit this never happened
Vermont to Maine isn't that far geographically, but worlds apart in other ways
New Englander here! 🙋🏻♀️ Can confirm. Not at all impossible to run into people across state lines. And there are some reeeeaaaal ‘Southern’ parts.
r/nothingeverhappens
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Politics aside, I find it odd that you think the “majority” of students (AND their parents) will never be able to achieve the level of a bachelor’s degree (or its equivalent). Do you just have really low expectations for your students? In my state, the median salary according to several reputable websites is around $50,000. I don’t make that much. Where are you getting that teachers make double the amount that your average student’s parent makes?
Picture or it didn't happen
TrUmP iS bAd!!!!
What's your point? That right wing radicals really care about their children? That they're anti-authoritarian and exercise their rights against public authority trying to punish their children? (Which is what a detention is) "His son was rude, aggressive, lazy, a cheater, a thief, a racist" you know if you describe a kindergartner accurately, they'll sound pretty awful too.
Frankly I’m mostly concerned that you’re describing ‘get your crappy kid out of facing consequences’ as exercising rights against ‘public authority trying to punish their children’ like it’s a bad thing. If you have kids, I’m curious to hear how you’ve responded to them earning a detention at school, if public education is your thing of course
As someone who has taught at both, let me say that in my experience private schools usually give out way more detentions than public schools lol. So public school doesn't have to be their experience for them to be able to speak on this
Oh for sure. Their reference to being punished by public authority is what I was addressing. It sounds like they’re criticizing the existence of it? Like private authority is somehow better…
...have you even LOOKED at your own username??
They never have anything worthwhile to say. Not even sure they are a teacher, just here to provoke
I know right? How dare a parent have any say on a detention. Or a disciplinary report. Or my grading autonomy. Even if he sues, as a public schoolteacher I have qualified immunity. A whiny parent should be treated like a whiny student. Ignored. “I don’t want to have detention” that’s why it’s a punishment. Maybe admin has gotten a bit too permissive? Why would parents have a say about any of this
Public school teachers do not have qualified immunity. In fact they are often held responsible for things well outside their control or the scope of their job.
Public school teachers do have qualified immunity. Because we exercise public authority. Whether the defense is raised or not is a lawyer issue. And teachers are fairly judgement proof, it doesn't really matter unless they were independently wealthy.
This is so factually incorrect it would be laughable, if it weren't so deeply pernicious and dangerous.
Any criminal law class should teach this basic fact. You could also look it up. Do you even know where your authority is derived from? It’s not contractual. It’s derived from your governor. https://www.slrma.org/news/civil-rights/1268-qualified-immunity-a-powerful-defense-against-students-constitutional-violation-claims You really went all this time without knowing? That’s awful, you really should have been informed
I don't have authority. I'm a teacher. Admin has authority. And this still not address the fact that teachers are not protected from anything, and suffer consequences for things beyond the scope of their role.
I gave you a link detailing how teacher’s public authority protects them from plenty of civil lawsuits. “Suffer consequences for things beyond the scope of their role” even absolute immunity (like judges and prosecutors) wouldn’t protect against that.
Yeah but there have been cases where immunity wasn’t granted either (Price as next friend of J.K. v. Mueller- Owens) so it’s not just flat out IMMUNITY. It’s based on what you did.
You are not a sane person. Your statements contradict themselves and the evidence you presented. I hope others have more patience correcting you.
Lmaooooo this is the worst take
Serious question - how do you breathe with your head that far up your own ass?
Proud boys are fascists, my guy.
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Are you suggesting that inner-city kids can't be "... rude, aggressive, lazy, a cheater, a thief, a racist, and more..."? However, in the interest of fairness, I can't think of too many inner-cities where you would find a dad looking like this: "there was dad, wearing a Proud Boys t-shirt, a MAGA hat and barely holding his jeans up under his enormous beer belly with a Confederate flag belt buckle," so no, they probably wouldn't describe an inner-city dad like this. Good catch there.