No. If they were already planning on replacing the carpets and told you so, they can not hold you liable for them. Especially once you factor in, normal wear and tear, life of the carpets vs when they were installed (depreciation).
Also, they are still required to give the tenant an itemized bill of repair costs with X amount of days (most places it's 30), or else they must return the whole deposit. Simply saying "We needed it all for repairs because X, Y, and Z were damaged" does not suffice. Personally, I always go radio silent during those 30 days + 5 days to make sure it was not in the mail. More than once a landlord has forgotten about it and had to return my full deposit.
Not a lawyer, but the text that they were already planning to replace them seems extremely clear-cut. They can't claim damages for something they were going to remove anyway. If they changed their mind later they should've said so.
What state/city are you in? Some jurisdictions also have requirements that the landlord must provide an itemized list of charges deducted from the security deposit within a certain amount of time, possibly with receipts attached, which it doesn't sound like your landlord did.
ALSO a week before we moved out, they had Home Depot come and measure all the carpets for removal and I have text proof of them coming while we were still living/moving things out. A week before our move out date.
It looks like Oregon has pretty weak requirements about what your LL has to provide regarding the security deposit. The text they sent is probably sufficient to satisfy the requirements.
I think your next step would be to talk to a lawyer, or a local tenant's union if there is one. This seems like an extremely black and white situation to me. There's no way I could see you being on the hook for this, given what the texts said.
I hope this doesn’t pry too much but since you no longer live there my curiosity got the best of me…where at in Beaverton? I lived in Beaverton for about a year and a half and now I live back home in NY, algorithm be doing the algorithm thing I guess
Just for the sake of I didn’t cross out in the message of Longacre. It’s right off 185th. It was interesting because it was a Beaverton address but the house 2 houses to the left was an Aloha address and 4 to the right was a Hillsboro address. Then across the street was a Portland address.
Contact [The Community Alliance of Tenants](https://www.oregoncat.org/) and they may be able to help you. Be sure to stick to text messages/email when speaking to them so everything stays documented.
In Oregon, the [Community Alliance of Tenants](https://www.oregoncat.org/) has a bunch of resources on your rights as a tenant, including a hotline open a few times a week to call and talk to someone. They have a bunch of [specific guides on Oregon tenant law](https://www.oregoncat.org/know-your-rights-1), including your rights around move out and security deposits.
Reach out to tenant advocacy groups in your area. It's highly likely that because they said they were planning to replace the carpet already, they can't turn around and charge you.
It's likely you would win in small claims court.
Also, look up your states rules for getting the deposit back. Does it state they need to send you an itemized list? How long do they have to send that? Are you required to request it at any point?
These are questions you need to ask yourself and find the answers to because in some states, it won't matter, if the LL doesn't follow the rules, you could get all your money back plus some.
Knowing your rights is power.
They literally told you not to touch the carpet, which means that you did not have an opportunity to clean them prior to returning possession of the unit. I wouldn't bother spending money on a lawyer, I would contact a tenant's rights group, or go straight to filing a small claims lawsuit.
If I had to guess, they were planning on replacing the carpeting, but when they saw the condition you left it in, they were ticked and thought you should be punished.
Either way, they can't go back on their offer and charge for carpeting.
Get a small claims court form and fill it out. Email/text over a copy to the landlord, with the documentation you have, and tell them they have 7 days to send you a check for the full amount. This worked for me once. Had a check in 2 days.
Send this in the morning
"I'm sorry, but you have given conflicting details here. Either you accept text messages as official written notice, in which case you provided details on you already replacing the carpet and for me to leave it alone, or else you do not accept it as written notice, in which case you didn't provide me with written notice of the carpets in the 14 days given in our contract, so you didn't meet your own criteria for keeping my security deposit."
OP might be better off not doing that. So far the only reason identified for withholding the security deposit is the carpet, which seems very clear cut. If OP demands an itemized list, the landlord might throw in other things and muddy the waters. Given what they've done so far, I wouldn't be surprised if they just made stuff up.
NAL. I think the fact the LL didn’t mention any other damage in that text is evidence enough of ill intent if he tries to add new unsaid damage to a claim.
Yes, now you'll have to fight him in court. I had this same thing years ago. Court ended up making him pay for everything for being dishonest but I had to go file a case
Absolutely not. They even stated they'd be replacing them anyways, that's extremely clear cut. You are owed your full deposit, you should tell them that, and if they refuse then you can take them to small claims court.
No. You have *in writing* that any problems with the carpets aren't a big deal because they were already planning on replacing them. If you have to, threaten legal action.
$2,750?! How big is this house? What is he replacing the carpet with? Handcrafted oriental rugs? That’s outrageous!
Contact your local legal aid office for a low or no cost attorney referral or take him to small claims court.
They only thing they could legitimately keep might be your pet deposit but only if that was stipulated in your pet addendum. More often than not the pet deposit is actually a fee with half or more being non-refundable. Check your lease to see if it states a portion of your pet deposit was actually a fee.
Also, you said Home Depot came and measured? He needs to provide you a copy of their estimate. However, since he already told in writing not to worry about the carpe it really doesn’t matter how much it is because it’s his problem.
Out of curiosity, do you know if he’s actually put the house on the market yet?
It’s currently not listed. My roommates were the one to hand off the key, and they asked for a itemized bill and they were surprised and were like “uh yeah we can do that I think” and they and myself have yet to hear back about that other than “carpet cost was over the price of deposit”
If I remember correctly, you said you live in Oregon? Per google, “if your landlord doesn’t return your deposit or send you a list of charges with estimates or invoices from bonafide businesses within 31 days you can send them a letter of demand. If you still don't hear from them you can file a Small Claims Case against them for two times the amount of the deposit. “
In Texas, where I live they are also liable for court fees (and three times the amount due). Not sure how Oregon rules on court fees?
Again, if I remember correctly, I think you said you moved out of May 31st? If I were you, I would remain quiet until July 1st and give them the opportunity to provide their documentation as required by law.
When they do not, and I doubt they will, go file on them in small claims court using the screen shot of your landlord’s statement to “not worry about the carpet” as proof they had premeditated plans to keep your deposit to pay for its replacement.
Wow what a greedy POS. I bet once he learns you will be taking them to court, (what a huge pain in the ass) they will return your SD. This is exactly why LL’s have such a bad name too! I had my last rental professionally cleaned & left it so perfect, yet they still retained 1/2 my SD—I swear they knew I wouldn’t chase them to court for my $$ but damn, I really really should have.(I also really regret I didn’t—on principle alone)
Not legal advise and not a lawyer. I live in Gresham, there are OR state laws that apply plus any local Beaverton laws. ORS 90.300 talks about this here https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_90.300
You should read the whole section, especially number 7. Essentially they have to provide an itemized list, they can charge you for cleaning but it doesn’t say they can charge you to replace the carpet. If you don’t get the itemized list, after 31 days you can take them to small claims court for twice whatever the amount they wrongly withheld. Which the court will decide what that would be. Also these sections:
12) In order to claim all or part of any prepaid rent or security deposit, within 31 days after the tenancy terminates and the tenant delivers possession the landlord shall give to the tenant a written accounting that states specifically the basis or bases of the claim. The landlord shall give a separate accounting for security deposits and for prepaid rent.
(13)The landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit or prepaid rent or the portion of the security deposit or prepaid rent that the landlord does not claim in the manner provided by subsections (11) and (12) of this section not later than 31 days after the tenancy terminates and the tenant delivers possession to the landlord.
(16) If the landlord fails to comply with subsection (13) of this section or if the landlord in bad faith fails to return all or any portion of any prepaid rent or security deposit due to the tenant under this chapter or the rental agreement, the tenant may recover the money due in an amount equal to twice the amount:
(a)Withheld without a written accounting under subsection (12) of this section; or
(b)Withheld in bad faith.
How old is the carpet?
LLs can only charge you for the value of the carpet when you move out. Because the LL was planning to remove the carpet, it must be at the end of its expected lifespan.
>[Depending upon the quality of the carpet,](https://portlandrentalmanagement.com/oregon-landlord-tenant-law-things-to-know-about-carpet-replacement/#:~:text=Depending%20upon%20the%20quality%20of,damaged%20when%20they%20move%20out.) the typical lifespan for carpeting is about 10 years.
(It can be as low as 5 years.)
>Understanding this lifespan is one of the key things that we use to help us determine how much the tenant should be charged if the carpeting is found to be damaged when they move out.
>For example, let’s say that the tenant damaged the carpet in the master bedroom of the rental property beyond repair. In this case, the landlord will have lost about eight years’ worth of the lifespan of that carpeting, so the tenant can be expected to pay 80% of the value of the carpet to replace it.
>This calculation is one of the most common ways that landlords calculate how much money the tenant should be expected to pay to replace damaged carpeting.
You were there for 18 months. The carpet has depreciated by 18 months.
>[Landlords cannot](https://www.azibo.com/blog/apartment-charge-for-carpet-replacement) charge the tenant for the full replacement cost if the carpet had already been in use prior to the tenant's occupancy. To determine how much you should charge, look at:
>Depreciated value: The charge must reflect the carpet's depreciated value, considering its age and expected lifespan. For example, **if a tenant damages a carpet with an expected lifespan of 10 years after 5 years of use, they may only be responsible for 50% of the replacement cost**. This framework also follows IRS guidelines, which consider carpets depreciating assets with a specific usable life.
>Local laws: Local landlord-tenant laws may have specific regulations regarding carpet replacement charges. These could involve apportionment of costs between landlords and tenants based on the carpet's remaining useful life. Local laws may also provide guidelines on calculating depreciation and determining fair replacement charges.
>Like-for-like replacement: The replacement cost should be for a like-for-like replacement. **The new carpet should be of a similar quality and type as the one you are replacing. You can't include upgrades in materials in the tenant's charge.**
What's odd about your situation, is that your LL doesn't give you an exact price for the replacement.
Instead, your LL claims that the damage to the carpet "exceeds the amount of the deposit paid".
By law, the LL has to give you a number. They can't just say the costs exceeds your security deposit. If that were true, the LL would send you a bill. Then they would take you to court for the remaining amount of money if you refused to pay.
Demand an itemized bill. Also demand evidence of when the current carpet was installed.
The LL is going to say that he's doing you a favor not giving you an itemized bill. He will say that if he gives you an itemized receipt, he will have to charge you the full cost of the depreciated value. By just keeping your security deposit, he's giving you a bargain.
That's bs. Demand evidence.
Yep. I lived in an apartment that pro rated carpet. We accidentally damaged a section in the very center of the living room, that would likely require full replacement.
Cost us $180.
Considering you have that text, no, but I am not a lawyer. This would, however bolster your case in the housing court or small claims court to get your deposit back, obviously doubled or trebled due to fraudulent intent.
Where I live the laws heavily favor tenants. The age of the carpet alone can prevent a landlord from charging for replacement. I believe, in wisconsin it's 10years reasonable use.
You would be stupid not to take them to small claims and get your full deposit back. Just file those messages as your evidence. Done deal. No lawyer needed.
Landlords and property managers try this crap but no they can’t. Especially since they said in text they were replacing carpet. You might need a lawyer to just send a formal letter stating they need to return the deposit or it will go to mediation or court
This is what I found online:
If you hear nothing from your landlord (they don’t return your deposit or send you a list of charges within 31 days) you can send them a letter. If you still don’t hear from them you can file a Small Claims Case against them for two times the amount of the deposit.
How long did it take for him to write that last text?
3 hours after I sent the text regarding the assessing damages and deposit message. But before that he had ignored a few messages because he had been out of town and busy. We had a great relationship throughout the entire time I rented his house. The one thing I will say that caught me off guard as a red flag before all this was early April we met in person he asked if we wanted to rent another year and I said we’d love to and asked if my girlfriend could move in. 3bed2.5bath and had 3 other people living with me (all friends, 2 of which were a couple not that it matters just extra info) and he said let me check with his significant other. End of April I get a text saying he’s selling the house (our lease is up may 31st) and that we could rent month to month until it sells. But no one wanted to do that cause every month would have just been anxiety waiting for the ball to drop that we had to get out.
Has it sold yet? If not, he's probably just trying to get you to pay for new carpet to make it more attractive to buyers, regardless of the condition. Not that it matters because he clearly signed away his rights to charge you for it, but what kind of condition was the carpet in when you left? I'm just curious. You should also try to find out how old it was because he probably can't even attempt to charge you for a full carpet replacement. It depreciates over time. Basically a carpet, for example, might have a 10-year lifespan. If it was already 5 years old when you moved in and you lived there for 2 years, it's only got about 3 years left of life left in it. So you should only have to pay for 3/10 of a new carpet. Except for the fact that he PUT IN WRITING that you don't have to worry about it. I think you're in the clear. I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest that you study study study Oregon tenant laws (I'm in Portland myself). Send him a letter via certified mail (you can find letter templates online), demanding your deposit back and/or an itemized list of deductions. Based on his response to that you should make your next decision. In the meantime, seek out a tenants advocacy group or get a free consultation with a lawyer. You can also start the paperwork for small claims court. You won't need a lawyer for this, but you will want to have all your ducks in a row so you can present your case to a judge. Good luck and update!
Thank you, my girlfriends step dads brother is a lawyer and seems like after talking with him, with the cat urine on the carpet, it could have soaked through causing damage to the base boards. Resulting in a potential counter sue for more money for damages to that. I have a lot to think about. I reached out once more and to TLDR my message it was along the lines of “hey this is what you said *attached screen shot of his message* can we maybe come out to an agreement/settlement.
That's what pet deposits are for. And according to my landlord it's not that hard of a fix.
Edit: you could do some research and find out what the actual cost is to clean that so you can counter with your own numbers.
Double edit: he actually didn't even mention that in his text. He just said the carpets. So I wouldn't worry about theoretical damage just yet. He still has to send you an itemized list regardless, which he hasn't done. So he would still be in violation of the law.
Pet deposits are not enough to cover cat urine. Whatever the pet deposit doesn'tcover is then deducted from the security deposit. It's impossible to remove.
Imo, no tenant should try to repair subflooring.
I can't say for certain, but I'm 95% sure that the carpet installers ripped up the carpet and padding, and found that areas the subflooring needed replacement. The cat urinated on the stairs, and in at least 2 other rooms. The materials for repairing subflooring aren't expensive, but the labor to repair it expensive.
I'm a lifelong cat lover and owner. Owners of cats who pee outside of their litter box area must take their cat to the vet, and do environmental/behavioral intervention immediately. Additional litter boxes, at least one on each level, trying various litters, keeping cats out of as many rooms possible until the issue is controlled, regular professional carpet cleaning, etc.
If regular professional cleaning isn't done on the urinated areas, the subfloor can become damaged. Cats tend to pee on carpet areas they've already peed on, making the issue worse.
If the cat is elderly or ill, not much can be done.
Don't believe I advocated for any tenant to try to repair it themselves. I'm also a lifelong cat owner and am well aware of all these things. Not sure why this is turning into a lecture on a subject that I didn't ask for one on.
How long have you lived there? There should be a depreciation factor. They are not replacing brand new carpet. Plus they already said they would be replaced.
Landlord lived in it before us, it was his first time renting. I had made him aware of that there was stains from my roommates on their carpet and then roommates cat ended up having accidents on the stairs and his room. I explained to him that they were in rough shape and he said the “don’t stress it we were planning on replacing it anyway”
The smell of cat urine is impossible to remove.
I think what happened is this; you texted that the carpets were in rough shape.
But then Home Depot came and did measurements. It was then that the LL realized that replacing the carpet wasn't adequate. He may have intended to keep the padding under the carpet. And the floor underneath probably will require some work.
Cat urine is so destructive. One problem area is on stairs; that makes the issue even more complicated.
The LL is probably being very fair with you.
I think your LL is giving you a good deal.
There are questions galore here-
-How long did you live there?
-Where is this home - city & state
-How old do you believe carpet was when you moved in?
- Did the landlord come by and do repairs or was he in home recently ? Had he recently seen the carpet? Or anyone from his family ?
Carpet is depreciable and most states have their own definitions of how long it should last. But you’d owe a % of the cost after wear and tear for your tenancy (and any other years the carpet had before you moved in. There’s a huge difference if you live in say, California, or North Carolina.
Carpets are depreciated over 5 years. That means they get their money back for the spending on their tax return. They can't legally charge you for a depreciated asset. When was the carpet LAST replaced? If it's more than 5 years, you can ask them 1 more time for the deposit, then file a small claims court lawsuit for your deposit. Let the judge educate them
My old landlord did the exact same thing to me, except she told me not to worry about the carpets verbally.
You could take them to court, but it might end up costing more than what she's withholding from you 🥺
If in the U.S. this would be small claims court. Filing fee is $15 bucks. No lawyers. You just give the judge your evidence they do the same and he decides.
Well worth the $15.
That's good to know! I never tried myself because I didn't really have any proof that she said what she did, and my lease stated I had to clean the carpets.
She was a real bitch 😤
Time to go to court you have proof they said not to clean carpet ms due to a planned replacement, therefore they can’t withhold your deposit for unless/damaged carpet
Thanks for the information. I’m moving out of a toxic environment where the 30 year old POS bitch office manager has something against me. I’m afraid she’s going to make up stuff and screw me.
Now I’m an attorney also but how and who can I have do the walk through with me so I don’t get screwed? I’ve been told stories where this bitch has done this over and over and even to older residents. Any advice would be appreciated.
Sadly, if she was a normal human being with feelings versus getting her nose in other people’s business and taking care of the property. It’s insane! I’m also this close to just wiping things done and not doing a total clean since they do a deep clean anyway.
From what I’m learning. Take pictures and videos of everything once you have all your things out. I wish I had done this, in case this ends up becoming a blood bath.
Well, since I’ve lived here for 6 years, is it to late to take pics and or videos of my unit? If they looked at my time there, they would see how many times I called to have several things fixed you would think. This bitch also told me verbally that after 5-6 years they replace the carpet anyway so I wouldn’t be charged for that. I’m tempted to go to a sister property and ask them what the proper procedures are to make sure. Know what I mean. I hate wishing time away but September cannot get here soon enough!
And what about having someone do the walk through with me? Since her Daddy works at corporate, I was advised not to submit a complaint against her because he would have her back. He’s the only reason she has the damn job. I’ve never in my life experienced this kind of gaslighting torture from a property manager! She’s rude, disrespectful and flat out ignorant. She left a notice on my door last Friday saying that she isn’t going to renew my lease for next year. At first I fell
Over laughing cause she’s that stupid and because that’s her way of trying to evict me which she has no grounds too. Then I felt like a horrible person. She actually makes me feel like a terrible tenant even though I’ve never had a problem in 6 years. Sorry for the rant but it’s why I don’t trust her.
Any thoughts on how or who I can have do a walk through with me?!
That is a lot of BS. I would say it’s never to late to take pictures of how everything looks when you move out in case she may try and say there were things that are damaged (that aren’t) and try and get you for it. Walk throughs any trusted person(s) you want in my opinion that can also take their own pictures in case something comes up that that end up being court related or something that’s tried to pin on you that you have a witness to testify with/for you. That is a rough situation and I wish you the best. It’s never too late to document things unless the keys are already handed in. Since you have until September just stay under the radar, take care of as much as you can. You’ve been there that long I’d say with the carpet just make sure it’s vacuumed and get as many stains out as possible without paying a professional to do it. Hang in there!
Thank you so much for your reply! Yes, I’ve had a very rough last year where I am. Just sucks because I loved living here and for 5 years never had any problems until that new manager took over. Thankfully, I have been documenting things since day one! My Mother trained me well 😉
Regarding the carpet….i want to have IN WRITING that I won’t be charged for it to be replaced! Also, I don’t even feel like cleaning the place since I know they will do it anyway. I just want out!!! Never been in this situation before and I’m too old to deal with this girls bullshit! I could be her Mother and how she talked to me and my Mother last summer….it took all I could to not get in her face and punch her lights out. She was so incredibly disrespectful! I’m also not a confrontational person but she’s got me on such high alert that I feel paranoid and crazy.
Pictures and videos will start now! What also pisses me off is that I was told since I’ve lived here so long, that they’ve updated their computers and systems and don’t have anything such as complaints and letting them know how I don’t feel safe etc. The drama is just too much!!!!
Devil's advocate here.
What if the landlord had been to the property recently and saw that the carpets were completely destroyed beyond a cleaning serving any purpose whatsoever?
It is a completely plausible translation of the text.
While this is true, they said they were replacing the carpets before they ever came and inspected the house. I had explained all the damage in a previous text above the one shown to which he gave that reply don’t stress we were already going to replace them anyway. I wish I would have gotten pictures of the carpets because realistically it wasn’t trashed beyond repair. Yes it had more than normal wear and tear damage but again i was foolish and didn’t get any pictures before leaving as i had to go 3 days prior to the keys being turned in as i was out of town for my daughters birthday.
Tale them to court. In some areas they have to pro-rate the age of the carpet for wear and tear (so if it's 7 years they can't charge you full replacement, because there's only 3 yearsof life left in the carpet amd 7 years of normal wear and tear), regardless, you have the texts saying they were going to replace it.
PERSONALLY I would send a letter to the property manager (not certified, and keep a record of the mailing date and copy of the letter) just stating that per the text on x date it was told that the carpets would be replaced, you expect a refund within 30 days, give your forwarding address. Of no response take to small claims court.
Leave it at that.
In Oregon he has to give an itemized accounting including depreciation. Tell him you're going to court and Oregon allows triple damages if your deposit isn't returned in 30 days. Full value of old commercial carpet is $0 and you have all the proof you need that it was being replaced anyway. Your LL is straight up trying to rip you off.
Go to court, win, collect triple damages.
They didn't want you to do anything about the carpets before you left out because they wanted to be able to blame you on the carpets
They never intended to give you your security deposit back
For this reason is why I never ever pay my last months rent. If the landlord complains I tell him to come over now and inspect the place and leave me a hand written letter of what may be wrong. The minute you pay last months rent they have all the power .
No. If they were already planning on replacing the carpets and told you so, they can not hold you liable for them. Especially once you factor in, normal wear and tear, life of the carpets vs when they were installed (depreciation).
Also, they are still required to give the tenant an itemized bill of repair costs with X amount of days (most places it's 30), or else they must return the whole deposit. Simply saying "We needed it all for repairs because X, Y, and Z were damaged" does not suffice. Personally, I always go radio silent during those 30 days + 5 days to make sure it was not in the mail. More than once a landlord has forgotten about it and had to return my full deposit.
Not a lawyer, but the text that they were already planning to replace them seems extremely clear-cut. They can't claim damages for something they were going to remove anyway. If they changed their mind later they should've said so. What state/city are you in? Some jurisdictions also have requirements that the landlord must provide an itemized list of charges deducted from the security deposit within a certain amount of time, possibly with receipts attached, which it doesn't sound like your landlord did.
ALSO a week before we moved out, they had Home Depot come and measure all the carpets for removal and I have text proof of them coming while we were still living/moving things out. A week before our move out date.
This was in Beaverton Oregon. He didn’t list anything other than saying the carpet damage statement.
It looks like Oregon has pretty weak requirements about what your LL has to provide regarding the security deposit. The text they sent is probably sufficient to satisfy the requirements. I think your next step would be to talk to a lawyer, or a local tenant's union if there is one. This seems like an extremely black and white situation to me. There's no way I could see you being on the hook for this, given what the texts said.
Thank you that’s what I thought too.
As an Oregonian, this sounds like something that would happen!! So sorry, just sending my sympathies. I hope others are able to help you through this!
I hope this doesn’t pry too much but since you no longer live there my curiosity got the best of me…where at in Beaverton? I lived in Beaverton for about a year and a half and now I live back home in NY, algorithm be doing the algorithm thing I guess
Just for the sake of I didn’t cross out in the message of Longacre. It’s right off 185th. It was interesting because it was a Beaverton address but the house 2 houses to the left was an Aloha address and 4 to the right was a Hillsboro address. Then across the street was a Portland address.
That’s so funny, I lived in literally the exact same area, worked at the Mobil at the corner of 185th and used the dispo right there regularly🤟🏼🤟🏼
Small world 😂
Contact [The Community Alliance of Tenants](https://www.oregoncat.org/) and they may be able to help you. Be sure to stick to text messages/email when speaking to them so everything stays documented.
In Oregon, the [Community Alliance of Tenants](https://www.oregoncat.org/) has a bunch of resources on your rights as a tenant, including a hotline open a few times a week to call and talk to someone. They have a bunch of [specific guides on Oregon tenant law](https://www.oregoncat.org/know-your-rights-1), including your rights around move out and security deposits.
Reach out to tenant advocacy groups in your area. It's highly likely that because they said they were planning to replace the carpet already, they can't turn around and charge you. It's likely you would win in small claims court. Also, look up your states rules for getting the deposit back. Does it state they need to send you an itemized list? How long do they have to send that? Are you required to request it at any point? These are questions you need to ask yourself and find the answers to because in some states, it won't matter, if the LL doesn't follow the rules, you could get all your money back plus some. Knowing your rights is power.
They literally told you not to touch the carpet, which means that you did not have an opportunity to clean them prior to returning possession of the unit. I wouldn't bother spending money on a lawyer, I would contact a tenant's rights group, or go straight to filing a small claims lawsuit. If I had to guess, they were planning on replacing the carpeting, but when they saw the condition you left it in, they were ticked and thought you should be punished. Either way, they can't go back on their offer and charge for carpeting.
Get a small claims court form and fill it out. Email/text over a copy to the landlord, with the documentation you have, and tell them they have 7 days to send you a check for the full amount. This worked for me once. Had a check in 2 days.
This is the way. Don’t play nice, don’t be reason with them. Just state your demands and hold firm
Send this in the morning "I'm sorry, but you have given conflicting details here. Either you accept text messages as official written notice, in which case you provided details on you already replacing the carpet and for me to leave it alone, or else you do not accept it as written notice, in which case you didn't provide me with written notice of the carpets in the 14 days given in our contract, so you didn't meet your own criteria for keeping my security deposit."
"Thank you for understanding"
Take landlord to small claims court. You don’t need a lawyer. Your own texts will be enough.
Ask for an itemized list of repairs with cost.
OP might be better off not doing that. So far the only reason identified for withholding the security deposit is the carpet, which seems very clear cut. If OP demands an itemized list, the landlord might throw in other things and muddy the waters. Given what they've done so far, I wouldn't be surprised if they just made stuff up.
NAL. I think the fact the LL didn’t mention any other damage in that text is evidence enough of ill intent if he tries to add new unsaid damage to a claim.
Nope, they only get one bite of the apple according to Oregon law. The itemized list is required.
I'd fight it. They already fucked up putting it all in text that they didn't plan on keeping the carpet.
That’s an easy win in small claims.
Yes, now you'll have to fight him in court. I had this same thing years ago. Court ended up making him pay for everything for being dishonest but I had to go file a case
Absolutely not. They even stated they'd be replacing them anyways, that's extremely clear cut. You are owed your full deposit, you should tell them that, and if they refuse then you can take them to small claims court.
No. You have *in writing* that any problems with the carpets aren't a big deal because they were already planning on replacing them. If you have to, threaten legal action.
$2,750?! How big is this house? What is he replacing the carpet with? Handcrafted oriental rugs? That’s outrageous! Contact your local legal aid office for a low or no cost attorney referral or take him to small claims court.
It was a 3bd 2.5bath about 1650sq ft. Rent/deposit was 2250 plus a 500 pet deposit
They only thing they could legitimately keep might be your pet deposit but only if that was stipulated in your pet addendum. More often than not the pet deposit is actually a fee with half or more being non-refundable. Check your lease to see if it states a portion of your pet deposit was actually a fee. Also, you said Home Depot came and measured? He needs to provide you a copy of their estimate. However, since he already told in writing not to worry about the carpe it really doesn’t matter how much it is because it’s his problem. Out of curiosity, do you know if he’s actually put the house on the market yet?
It’s currently not listed. My roommates were the one to hand off the key, and they asked for a itemized bill and they were surprised and were like “uh yeah we can do that I think” and they and myself have yet to hear back about that other than “carpet cost was over the price of deposit”
If I remember correctly, you said you live in Oregon? Per google, “if your landlord doesn’t return your deposit or send you a list of charges with estimates or invoices from bonafide businesses within 31 days you can send them a letter of demand. If you still don't hear from them you can file a Small Claims Case against them for two times the amount of the deposit. “ In Texas, where I live they are also liable for court fees (and three times the amount due). Not sure how Oregon rules on court fees? Again, if I remember correctly, I think you said you moved out of May 31st? If I were you, I would remain quiet until July 1st and give them the opportunity to provide their documentation as required by law. When they do not, and I doubt they will, go file on them in small claims court using the screen shot of your landlord’s statement to “not worry about the carpet” as proof they had premeditated plans to keep your deposit to pay for its replacement.
No. I’d remind him of his earlier text then take him to small claims court.
How long did you live there? (Although with the text the LL sent telling you not to worry abt the carpets is plenty enough for court)
From December 2022 to may 2024. He even sent me a text saying #besttenantever and then I get this shit
Wow what a greedy POS. I bet once he learns you will be taking them to court, (what a huge pain in the ass) they will return your SD. This is exactly why LL’s have such a bad name too! I had my last rental professionally cleaned & left it so perfect, yet they still retained 1/2 my SD—I swear they knew I wouldn’t chase them to court for my $$ but damn, I really really should have.(I also really regret I didn’t—on principle alone)
Greed is rampant!
Not legal advise and not a lawyer. I live in Gresham, there are OR state laws that apply plus any local Beaverton laws. ORS 90.300 talks about this here https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_90.300 You should read the whole section, especially number 7. Essentially they have to provide an itemized list, they can charge you for cleaning but it doesn’t say they can charge you to replace the carpet. If you don’t get the itemized list, after 31 days you can take them to small claims court for twice whatever the amount they wrongly withheld. Which the court will decide what that would be. Also these sections: 12) In order to claim all or part of any prepaid rent or security deposit, within 31 days after the tenancy terminates and the tenant delivers possession the landlord shall give to the tenant a written accounting that states specifically the basis or bases of the claim. The landlord shall give a separate accounting for security deposits and for prepaid rent. (13)The landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit or prepaid rent or the portion of the security deposit or prepaid rent that the landlord does not claim in the manner provided by subsections (11) and (12) of this section not later than 31 days after the tenancy terminates and the tenant delivers possession to the landlord. (16) If the landlord fails to comply with subsection (13) of this section or if the landlord in bad faith fails to return all or any portion of any prepaid rent or security deposit due to the tenant under this chapter or the rental agreement, the tenant may recover the money due in an amount equal to twice the amount: (a)Withheld without a written accounting under subsection (12) of this section; or (b)Withheld in bad faith.
How old is the carpet? LLs can only charge you for the value of the carpet when you move out. Because the LL was planning to remove the carpet, it must be at the end of its expected lifespan. >[Depending upon the quality of the carpet,](https://portlandrentalmanagement.com/oregon-landlord-tenant-law-things-to-know-about-carpet-replacement/#:~:text=Depending%20upon%20the%20quality%20of,damaged%20when%20they%20move%20out.) the typical lifespan for carpeting is about 10 years. (It can be as low as 5 years.) >Understanding this lifespan is one of the key things that we use to help us determine how much the tenant should be charged if the carpeting is found to be damaged when they move out. >For example, let’s say that the tenant damaged the carpet in the master bedroom of the rental property beyond repair. In this case, the landlord will have lost about eight years’ worth of the lifespan of that carpeting, so the tenant can be expected to pay 80% of the value of the carpet to replace it. >This calculation is one of the most common ways that landlords calculate how much money the tenant should be expected to pay to replace damaged carpeting. You were there for 18 months. The carpet has depreciated by 18 months. >[Landlords cannot](https://www.azibo.com/blog/apartment-charge-for-carpet-replacement) charge the tenant for the full replacement cost if the carpet had already been in use prior to the tenant's occupancy. To determine how much you should charge, look at: >Depreciated value: The charge must reflect the carpet's depreciated value, considering its age and expected lifespan. For example, **if a tenant damages a carpet with an expected lifespan of 10 years after 5 years of use, they may only be responsible for 50% of the replacement cost**. This framework also follows IRS guidelines, which consider carpets depreciating assets with a specific usable life. >Local laws: Local landlord-tenant laws may have specific regulations regarding carpet replacement charges. These could involve apportionment of costs between landlords and tenants based on the carpet's remaining useful life. Local laws may also provide guidelines on calculating depreciation and determining fair replacement charges. >Like-for-like replacement: The replacement cost should be for a like-for-like replacement. **The new carpet should be of a similar quality and type as the one you are replacing. You can't include upgrades in materials in the tenant's charge.** What's odd about your situation, is that your LL doesn't give you an exact price for the replacement. Instead, your LL claims that the damage to the carpet "exceeds the amount of the deposit paid". By law, the LL has to give you a number. They can't just say the costs exceeds your security deposit. If that were true, the LL would send you a bill. Then they would take you to court for the remaining amount of money if you refused to pay. Demand an itemized bill. Also demand evidence of when the current carpet was installed. The LL is going to say that he's doing you a favor not giving you an itemized bill. He will say that if he gives you an itemized receipt, he will have to charge you the full cost of the depreciated value. By just keeping your security deposit, he's giving you a bargain. That's bs. Demand evidence.
Yep. I lived in an apartment that pro rated carpet. We accidentally damaged a section in the very center of the living room, that would likely require full replacement. Cost us $180.
Phew! That must have been a relief!
Considering you have that text, no, but I am not a lawyer. This would, however bolster your case in the housing court or small claims court to get your deposit back, obviously doubled or trebled due to fraudulent intent.
Oh if you dispute this in court they are royally fucked thanks to that text.
This gets me fired up. Good luck - screw that guy. Go fight it they are literally just stealing from you. Take them to small claims court
Where I live the laws heavily favor tenants. The age of the carpet alone can prevent a landlord from charging for replacement. I believe, in wisconsin it's 10years reasonable use.
You would be stupid not to take them to small claims and get your full deposit back. Just file those messages as your evidence. Done deal. No lawyer needed.
Landlords and property managers try this crap but no they can’t. Especially since they said in text they were replacing carpet. You might need a lawyer to just send a formal letter stating they need to return the deposit or it will go to mediation or court
OMGosh! What shit heads! Small claims court 🫤
This is what I found online: If you hear nothing from your landlord (they don’t return your deposit or send you a list of charges within 31 days) you can send them a letter. If you still don’t hear from them you can file a Small Claims Case against them for two times the amount of the deposit. How long did it take for him to write that last text?
3 hours after I sent the text regarding the assessing damages and deposit message. But before that he had ignored a few messages because he had been out of town and busy. We had a great relationship throughout the entire time I rented his house. The one thing I will say that caught me off guard as a red flag before all this was early April we met in person he asked if we wanted to rent another year and I said we’d love to and asked if my girlfriend could move in. 3bed2.5bath and had 3 other people living with me (all friends, 2 of which were a couple not that it matters just extra info) and he said let me check with his significant other. End of April I get a text saying he’s selling the house (our lease is up may 31st) and that we could rent month to month until it sells. But no one wanted to do that cause every month would have just been anxiety waiting for the ball to drop that we had to get out.
Has it sold yet? If not, he's probably just trying to get you to pay for new carpet to make it more attractive to buyers, regardless of the condition. Not that it matters because he clearly signed away his rights to charge you for it, but what kind of condition was the carpet in when you left? I'm just curious. You should also try to find out how old it was because he probably can't even attempt to charge you for a full carpet replacement. It depreciates over time. Basically a carpet, for example, might have a 10-year lifespan. If it was already 5 years old when you moved in and you lived there for 2 years, it's only got about 3 years left of life left in it. So you should only have to pay for 3/10 of a new carpet. Except for the fact that he PUT IN WRITING that you don't have to worry about it. I think you're in the clear. I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest that you study study study Oregon tenant laws (I'm in Portland myself). Send him a letter via certified mail (you can find letter templates online), demanding your deposit back and/or an itemized list of deductions. Based on his response to that you should make your next decision. In the meantime, seek out a tenants advocacy group or get a free consultation with a lawyer. You can also start the paperwork for small claims court. You won't need a lawyer for this, but you will want to have all your ducks in a row so you can present your case to a judge. Good luck and update!
Thank you, my girlfriends step dads brother is a lawyer and seems like after talking with him, with the cat urine on the carpet, it could have soaked through causing damage to the base boards. Resulting in a potential counter sue for more money for damages to that. I have a lot to think about. I reached out once more and to TLDR my message it was along the lines of “hey this is what you said *attached screen shot of his message* can we maybe come out to an agreement/settlement.
That's what pet deposits are for. And according to my landlord it's not that hard of a fix. Edit: you could do some research and find out what the actual cost is to clean that so you can counter with your own numbers. Double edit: he actually didn't even mention that in his text. He just said the carpets. So I wouldn't worry about theoretical damage just yet. He still has to send you an itemized list regardless, which he hasn't done. So he would still be in violation of the law.
Pet deposits are not enough to cover cat urine. Whatever the pet deposit doesn'tcover is then deducted from the security deposit. It's impossible to remove.
Not impossible, just requires patience and the right tools.
Imo, no tenant should try to repair subflooring. I can't say for certain, but I'm 95% sure that the carpet installers ripped up the carpet and padding, and found that areas the subflooring needed replacement. The cat urinated on the stairs, and in at least 2 other rooms. The materials for repairing subflooring aren't expensive, but the labor to repair it expensive. I'm a lifelong cat lover and owner. Owners of cats who pee outside of their litter box area must take their cat to the vet, and do environmental/behavioral intervention immediately. Additional litter boxes, at least one on each level, trying various litters, keeping cats out of as many rooms possible until the issue is controlled, regular professional carpet cleaning, etc. If regular professional cleaning isn't done on the urinated areas, the subfloor can become damaged. Cats tend to pee on carpet areas they've already peed on, making the issue worse. If the cat is elderly or ill, not much can be done.
Don't believe I advocated for any tenant to try to repair it themselves. I'm also a lifelong cat owner and am well aware of all these things. Not sure why this is turning into a lecture on a subject that I didn't ask for one on.
I didn't lecture you. I shared info for anyone reading this post. I said nothing personal about you. Why are you taking this so personally?
How long have you lived there? There should be a depreciation factor. They are not replacing brand new carpet. Plus they already said they would be replaced.
What kind of shape were they in when you moved in?
Landlord lived in it before us, it was his first time renting. I had made him aware of that there was stains from my roommates on their carpet and then roommates cat ended up having accidents on the stairs and his room. I explained to him that they were in rough shape and he said the “don’t stress it we were planning on replacing it anyway”
The smell of cat urine is impossible to remove. I think what happened is this; you texted that the carpets were in rough shape. But then Home Depot came and did measurements. It was then that the LL realized that replacing the carpet wasn't adequate. He may have intended to keep the padding under the carpet. And the floor underneath probably will require some work. Cat urine is so destructive. One problem area is on stairs; that makes the issue even more complicated. The LL is probably being very fair with you. I think your LL is giving you a good deal.
Time for small claims court
They all do this.
It's absolute b.s
No, And you have the proof
Judge Judy Time! 😂
There are questions galore here- -How long did you live there? -Where is this home - city & state -How old do you believe carpet was when you moved in? - Did the landlord come by and do repairs or was he in home recently ? Had he recently seen the carpet? Or anyone from his family ? Carpet is depreciable and most states have their own definitions of how long it should last. But you’d owe a % of the cost after wear and tear for your tenancy (and any other years the carpet had before you moved in. There’s a huge difference if you live in say, California, or North Carolina.
Carpets are depreciated over 5 years. That means they get their money back for the spending on their tax return. They can't legally charge you for a depreciated asset. When was the carpet LAST replaced? If it's more than 5 years, you can ask them 1 more time for the deposit, then file a small claims court lawsuit for your deposit. Let the judge educate them
My old landlord did the exact same thing to me, except she told me not to worry about the carpets verbally. You could take them to court, but it might end up costing more than what she's withholding from you 🥺
If in the U.S. this would be small claims court. Filing fee is $15 bucks. No lawyers. You just give the judge your evidence they do the same and he decides. Well worth the $15.
That's good to know! I never tried myself because I didn't really have any proof that she said what she did, and my lease stated I had to clean the carpets. She was a real bitch 😤
Time to go to court you have proof they said not to clean carpet ms due to a planned replacement, therefore they can’t withhold your deposit for unless/damaged carpet
Take them to court.
Landlord special
Thanks for the information. I’m moving out of a toxic environment where the 30 year old POS bitch office manager has something against me. I’m afraid she’s going to make up stuff and screw me. Now I’m an attorney also but how and who can I have do the walk through with me so I don’t get screwed? I’ve been told stories where this bitch has done this over and over and even to older residents. Any advice would be appreciated.
Take pictures and time stamp the date on them! Thats what I wish I would’ve done, would’ve made things a lot easier
Sadly, if she was a normal human being with feelings versus getting her nose in other people’s business and taking care of the property. It’s insane! I’m also this close to just wiping things done and not doing a total clean since they do a deep clean anyway.
From what I’m learning. Take pictures and videos of everything once you have all your things out. I wish I had done this, in case this ends up becoming a blood bath.
Well, since I’ve lived here for 6 years, is it to late to take pics and or videos of my unit? If they looked at my time there, they would see how many times I called to have several things fixed you would think. This bitch also told me verbally that after 5-6 years they replace the carpet anyway so I wouldn’t be charged for that. I’m tempted to go to a sister property and ask them what the proper procedures are to make sure. Know what I mean. I hate wishing time away but September cannot get here soon enough! And what about having someone do the walk through with me? Since her Daddy works at corporate, I was advised not to submit a complaint against her because he would have her back. He’s the only reason she has the damn job. I’ve never in my life experienced this kind of gaslighting torture from a property manager! She’s rude, disrespectful and flat out ignorant. She left a notice on my door last Friday saying that she isn’t going to renew my lease for next year. At first I fell Over laughing cause she’s that stupid and because that’s her way of trying to evict me which she has no grounds too. Then I felt like a horrible person. She actually makes me feel like a terrible tenant even though I’ve never had a problem in 6 years. Sorry for the rant but it’s why I don’t trust her. Any thoughts on how or who I can have do a walk through with me?!
That is a lot of BS. I would say it’s never to late to take pictures of how everything looks when you move out in case she may try and say there were things that are damaged (that aren’t) and try and get you for it. Walk throughs any trusted person(s) you want in my opinion that can also take their own pictures in case something comes up that that end up being court related or something that’s tried to pin on you that you have a witness to testify with/for you. That is a rough situation and I wish you the best. It’s never too late to document things unless the keys are already handed in. Since you have until September just stay under the radar, take care of as much as you can. You’ve been there that long I’d say with the carpet just make sure it’s vacuumed and get as many stains out as possible without paying a professional to do it. Hang in there!
Thank you so much for your reply! Yes, I’ve had a very rough last year where I am. Just sucks because I loved living here and for 5 years never had any problems until that new manager took over. Thankfully, I have been documenting things since day one! My Mother trained me well 😉 Regarding the carpet….i want to have IN WRITING that I won’t be charged for it to be replaced! Also, I don’t even feel like cleaning the place since I know they will do it anyway. I just want out!!! Never been in this situation before and I’m too old to deal with this girls bullshit! I could be her Mother and how she talked to me and my Mother last summer….it took all I could to not get in her face and punch her lights out. She was so incredibly disrespectful! I’m also not a confrontational person but she’s got me on such high alert that I feel paranoid and crazy. Pictures and videos will start now! What also pisses me off is that I was told since I’ve lived here so long, that they’ve updated their computers and systems and don’t have anything such as complaints and letting them know how I don’t feel safe etc. The drama is just too much!!!!
Devil's advocate here. What if the landlord had been to the property recently and saw that the carpets were completely destroyed beyond a cleaning serving any purpose whatsoever? It is a completely plausible translation of the text.
While this is true, they said they were replacing the carpets before they ever came and inspected the house. I had explained all the damage in a previous text above the one shown to which he gave that reply don’t stress we were already going to replace them anyway. I wish I would have gotten pictures of the carpets because realistically it wasn’t trashed beyond repair. Yes it had more than normal wear and tear damage but again i was foolish and didn’t get any pictures before leaving as i had to go 3 days prior to the keys being turned in as i was out of town for my daughters birthday.
Tale them to court. In some areas they have to pro-rate the age of the carpet for wear and tear (so if it's 7 years they can't charge you full replacement, because there's only 3 yearsof life left in the carpet amd 7 years of normal wear and tear), regardless, you have the texts saying they were going to replace it. PERSONALLY I would send a letter to the property manager (not certified, and keep a record of the mailing date and copy of the letter) just stating that per the text on x date it was told that the carpets would be replaced, you expect a refund within 30 days, give your forwarding address. Of no response take to small claims court. Leave it at that.
In Oregon he has to give an itemized accounting including depreciation. Tell him you're going to court and Oregon allows triple damages if your deposit isn't returned in 30 days. Full value of old commercial carpet is $0 and you have all the proof you need that it was being replaced anyway. Your LL is straight up trying to rip you off. Go to court, win, collect triple damages.
Check your local laws but in WA if carpets are over 10 years old they cant hold tenants liable for any damage to carpets
No. Please get help with this. You are being jacked around. In CA carpets depreciate. Was this new carpet when you moved in?
Anybody who uses chat gpt knows their last message was written by them ahahahahah
They didn't want you to do anything about the carpets before you left out because they wanted to be able to blame you on the carpets They never intended to give you your security deposit back
For this reason is why I never ever pay my last months rent. If the landlord complains I tell him to come over now and inspect the place and leave me a hand written letter of what may be wrong. The minute you pay last months rent they have all the power .
Do explain! Cause I’m at that point of just packing and getting the hella out!