its about 3-4k difference on a used tesla
Eventually though, IF FSD is one day licensed for use in robo taxis. Is your FDS tesla now also allowed to robo taxi?
Put it on uber mode when you are not using it. Making money while you sleep. If yes, then the value of FSD will be much much greater.
That the only scenario where I see it being worth 12k. Because it makes you 40k
Def not worth the money.
It's not transferable - total your car and poof it's gone. I am not even sure if insurance will cover it.
It's not a finished product.
When you trade in your vehicle, some places will not even take the peice you paid into account.
I plan on paying for the $200 when I have to travel long distances, then cancel it.
Even for long trips it doesn't make sense to pay $200/mo because FSD is basically in-city autopilot.
On highways, if you drive patiently in the slower lane, the regular Autopilot is quite sufficient/capable.
Just my opinion, your needs may vary.
All I use from EAP is changing lanes when I put on the turn signal instead of disengaging/re-engaging.
If Tesla would add that to base AP or at least auto re-engage when you manually change lanes like almost every other car with lane keeping, I would be happy.
Currently there's no difference between EAP and FSD on highways. Even if you have the beta, as soon as you hit a major highway, you're running on the same software stack as EAP.
That just changed yesterday, wide update now has FSDb on city and highway. From reports lane changes are more logical and supersmooth compared to std. Autopilot. I'm going to try it out this Saturday.
This is what will make Tesla miss out on added revenue from people who wanted to upgrade to a newer model.
Someone who paid $5k for it is going to be royally pissed if they have to pay another $15k to upgrade their car. I'm going to keep my 3 with my cheapass "FSD" til the car stops moving. lol
Not being rude, wondering with other cars what are you able to transfer to another car? Or do you mean selling to a new owner they can’t have the FSD you paid for?
Would be about what it’s worth IMO. I’ve wondered if Tesla didn’t increase the price so much trying to deter people from getting it so they could turn the page without the media saying they abandoned it. Tesla definitely finds themself in a pickle with it. It’s not a viable product IMO.
I think they’ll keep a hefty price tag for it (though maybe less), but I expect that eventually they will allow you to transfer it when you trade in a car to them. Though they might make low-ball trade in offers to go with that “transfer”.
Genuine question for captin genius here: are you on FSD or not? did you pay 15k or 200 a month or not? simple as that? You’re post suggests that you paid for FSD but you’re on 2023.2.11 which clearly doesn’t have FSD which means you don’t know what you’re talking about.
There is no non beta version of FSD. If you purchased FSD and you are on the software you say you are, you have Enhanced Autopilot, not FSD. If you would like to use the FSD software, press the button in your Autopilot settings to opt-in, and your car will update to it when the path is available for your software.
Right, and in order to get the product you paid 15,000 for, you have to opt-in in the Autopilot menu and wait for it to be pushed to your car. I don’t understand why you would pay 15k for it and then just NOT use it?
I dont think you're qualified to comment if you aren't on the Beta.
You have Autopilot with automatic lane changes and traffic light control, thats it. Both work better on the FSD Beta build.
What are you smoking?
There are three tiers to Tesla's driver assist options.
Autopilot (standard on all vehicles)
Enhanced Autopilot ($6k upgrade)
FSD ($15k upgrade/$200 per month subscription)
If the OP does not have FSD, then they really cannot comment about FSD.
> How can OP have "FSD" without being part of the beta?
See Tesla's order page. It only mentions Stop sign and traffic light control for $15,000 FSD. "Autosteer on city streets" is coming soon.
https://i.imgur.com/oFxsaPJ.png
In your previous post, your 3rd tier should actually be:
3\. FSD ($15k upgrade/$200 per month subscription)
a. regular FSD: EAP + Stop sign and traffic light control. No "autosteer on city streets".
b. beta FSD: the "real FSD" that most people talk about, with door to door self driving.
some people have to wait months to get Beta FSD (even though already paid the $15K or $200/month).
>a. regular FSD: EAP + Stop sign and traffic light control. No "autosteer on city streets".
b. beta FSD: the "real FSD" that most people talk about, with door to door self driving.
Wow. That is a new one for me. I guess you can define FSD however you want.
Let me be crystal clear though. There is only FSD beta. You are kidding yourself trying to draw a distinction between a. and b.
Not at all. It’s what’s currently offered by Tesla. I shouldn’t have to pin my hopes on a beta of a beta to enjoy a feature that was sold as near ready. Clearly it isn’t!
I thought it was well understood that purchasing FSD was purchasing the hope of a future state yet unrealized. I believe Elon said when it is realized it will be worth $100k IIRC.
There is clearly a distinction between, autopilot, enhanced autopilot AND FSD. So are you talking about FSD or what? You can’t call all of them FSD because they aren’t. You’re title suggests you’re talking about FSD which you need to opt in and pay 15k for which you didn’t.
Again, not how Tesla sells it! The sell it’s a FSD capable. That’s pretty black and white. Your also assuming that I haven’t paid for it. That assumption is wrong.
Your translation so far is, “How dare you speaketh badly of FSD you poor peasant.” /s
What are you talking about? Can you read? That’s literally NOT how they sell it lol. It says right there: “Autopilot comes standard on every new Tesla. For owners who took delivery of their cars without Autopilot, there are two Autopilot packages available for purchase, depending on when your car was built: Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability….” It’s fucking confusing and you are misleading people into thinking that you are talking about FSD and that you paid $15,000 for it.
Did you paid for it? Is that what you’re talking about or you’re just changing the subject now because me and others are calling you out. I don’t care if FSD is bad or good, I care about the truth.
You are spreading misinformation. It IS how they are selling it. Right now if you bought FSD it's not listed as a beta in their app. You keep playing word salad here. Even your own post doesn't mention the word beta in it.
If you read my OP you can clearly tell I bought it. How can I give it's not worth it post if I haven't bought it? Your post is fucking hilarious because your assumptions are not even on the same planet! Come back down to earth!
You just proved my point. I'm talking about FSD as it is under 2023.2.11 and later. You can purchase FSD and NOT be a part of the FSD v11. You don't seem to get that point and have completely missed it. Purchasing FSD gives you to navigate on auto pilot, auto lane change, auto park, summon, smart summon, and traffic light and stop sign control. It's called FSD for a reason, aka Full Self Driving capability. When you buy it, nowhere does it say you must join the beta. YOU keep assuming you do. That is 100 percent false. Before you try playing word salad again saying that it's not the same, I'm not the one who called it FSD.. Tesla did. I'm using Tesla's own terminology and what you get when you pay the 15,000 or monthly fee. Gotcha! Now you gonna unleash those adhomiem attacks like ya did before! LMAO!
lol FSD is beta you moron. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about here. Do you even know how to use FSD? or you thought you were using FSD but you were just using auto pilot.
Autopilot is an advanced driver assistance system that assists your car with steering, accelerating and braking for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane. It assists with the most burdensome parts of driving and work alongside features like emergency braking, collision warning and blind-spot monitoring.
With Full Self-Driving (FSD) capability, you will get access to a suite of more advanced driver assistance features, designed to provide more active guidance and assisted driving under your active supervision.
If you have not already purchased FSD capability and your vehicle has FSD computer 3.0 or above, you can subscribe to FSD capability from the Tesla app or your vehicle’s touchscreen.
Source: [https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions#tesla-accordion-v2-1040-can-i-request-full-self-driving-beta-if-i-am-subscribed-to-tesla-full-self-driving-capabilities](https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions#tesla-accordion-v2-1040-can-i-request-full-self-driving-beta-if-i-am-subscribed-to-tesla-full-self-driving-capabilities)
I don't have it on my Y, but my M3 loaner had it, and it was completely useless and frankly dangerous in the urban environment surrounding my house in DC. I'm thrilled I didn't buy it because you have to constantly intervene, defeating the purpose. It was completely incapable of handling traffic patterns in my neighborhood of NE DC. Autopilot on the highway is maybe 85-95% of FSD at no cost, and totally satisfactory for the little I drive long distances. Don't feel I'm missing much, and no, you aren't crazy.
Same experience. Loaner had it and other than highway driving, it gave me more anxiety than just doing it myself. Had to take over everytime I exited the highway.
I think almost everyone will agree with you on this, even most of the people that have and use FSD.
I personally can't wrap my head around paying to beta test something that we have no working idea on when it goes gold, let alone paying $15k to do all that. I can *almost* wrap my head around trying it out for $200, but you do that knowing that it's $200 for a beta that will almost certainly not go gold under your monthly use period, so in some ways it makes even less sense.
I have FSD and enjoy it for long trips. For around town I rarely use it.
Buying it early, knowing it was "beta" software, and mostly wanting it to help with driver fatigue on long drives has been a good decision for me.
I expect, if, it makes it to L4, the cost will be substantially higher than the current price tag. And if it gets stuck at L3, the price might come down a bit.
Genuine question; is it better for fatigue in long trips than basic autopilot? I haven't taken anything exceedingly long, and maybe you're not specifically referencing Highway driving, but I find AP to be excellent there. Aside from resting my arm on the wheel I suspect I could go hours without any input.
For highway I imagine it would be pretty similar. It is nice that the vehicle can change lanes automatically and take the exit, but the majority of fatigue would be covered by AP.
Where I am, there are a lot of rural "highways" I travel on, that go through small towns with stop signs, signal lights, etc.
I would 100% pay up to $1000 for auto lane change as an a la carte option. The rest……meh. It’s all either party tricks or unfinished beta software that will likely be beta software for the life of my car. Elon can keep all that.
Honestly. My wife’s Honda can somehow manage to not disengage LKA when changing lanes but my Tesla just throws its hands up like it’s an unsolvable riddle.
Same thing here, I got FSD at 8k on a 2020 M3SR+. The car ended up not being a good fit for the family and winter weather. I ended up selling it and getting a MYLR 2022 but I opted not to get FSD again. I am picking up a MYP next week, and definitely not getting it. I am just really bitter that FSD is non-transferable.
I bought FSD on a MYLR for 12k. Missed the 10K mark by a day because I waited to order. Oh well.
It sucks I can’t take it with me if I get another Tesla but as quirky as it is….I still love it. For my area and normal routes of driving it works pretty good with minimal complaints. I’d say about 75% of my total 5K miles are on FSD. I use it almost all the time.
The new 15k price tag makes me pause a little but I’d probably do it again, or at least the monthly sub. Hell I’ve spent more on worse lol. Like the awesome plasma tv when it first came out. Or the swimming pool that no one uses anymore. Don’t even get me started on the 10 year old Ferrari that sits in the garage and sees maybe 2k miles a year. Friggin maintenance is almost as much as the car.
This is definitely one of those “you’re money you’re choice” decisions.
For me I say the hell with it… can’t take it with you 😉
If your home, your family, and your retirement savings are solid. Then screw it. Buy what you want if it makes you happy. You earned it. Or don’t. No one cares in the end 😉
You’re definitely paying for the privilege of being involved in the making of the sausage, not enjoying the final product.
I personally am fine paying for this (and do), but I 100% understand why many are not, and Tesla has never been completely forthcoming from a marketing perspective about any of it.
>Notice how I never mentioned Beta
What does that have to do with the price of butter? If you do not buy or subscribe to FSD, then you cannot use it. If you cannot use it, then your post about "FSD" is worthless because you are not, in fact, using FSD at all.
Have you bought or subscribed to FSD? If so, are you sure you are "in". Because, even after buying/subscribing, there can be a wait period before your vehicle updates.
Based on your comment about which version of software your car is running, I am pretty confident when I say you are not using FSD. You are using either AP or EAP.
Again, Tesla sells it as “full self driving capability”. What’s currently available outside of the beta is crap! They advertise it as FSD. So yeah! It’s FSD because that’s the way Tesla sells it!
"Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you are correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who."
Good talk, mate. You are hilariously wrong, but I'm going to take Twain's advice and not bother.
I can’t believe I read through all this and became influenced about FSD by someone who is confused about the 3 levels of autopilot, how they work together, and most likely doesn’t even have FSD. Then justifies making uninformed claims by suggesting that Tesla said his car is CAPABLE of having FSD therefore he does. 2023, man.
We are basically the crash test dummies... we pay our hard earned dollar to beta test and improve the system for Tesla. Tesla should be paying us to do that for them, not the other way around!
Any one considering FSD should know that it is not perfect now but getting there. Once its perfect, everyone wants it. Can you pay a price now so that future upside potential is locked for you is the right question imo. Having said that, FSD tied to a car instead of an individual purchasing it is a no go for me at this time. When this changes, I am all in!!!!
This isn't even an opinion anymore. Its priced at $15k because they upped the price over and over to get short term gains from FOMO buyers and now they can't reduce it without pissing them off, eliminating a huge advantage they have selling used Tesla's, and devaluing something they want to keep pretending has value.
it's a hard thing to price.... if it's not completely ready it won't be worth much of anything.... However as soon as it is ready... I would argue it is worth way more than 15k for a lifetime license (even if its the lifetime of the car).... I think the long term plan of Tesla is that they don't want to sell people a license to FSD for a one-time fee... as soon as FSD is ready or even "really close to ready", I expect the straight up buying option to go away and leaving only the subscription....
That's the whole point, tesla don't want to increase the number of cars that has a lifetime FSD license, because they know as soon as its ready, they can get way more from subscriptions than selling licenses....
to me its well worth it, seeing the technology evolve in front of my eyes and be able to experience the progress in near real time... it's exciting... but i'm into tech so i understand that's not for everyone.... I just can't help but roll my eyes at people saying it's not worth the 15k, yes its not in its current state... but once it is, it won't be sold for 15k...
For some reason I find that EAP drives like a drunk human while regular autopilot is always spot on and less jerky with steering movements and surrounding traffic. (Model 3).
Genuinely feel bad for anyone who got the FSD beta. Why would you get such a cool car to let software drive you around, while having to be hyper alert because of its unreliability. Enhanced autopilot is all you need.
Not just not worth the money, it’s downright dangerous if taken at face value.
Tesla uses customers and bystanders as Guinea pigs for testing that software live on roads. And it asks customers to pay to test it.
I bought it for $7K, would not buy it again. I don't even like turning it on while driving on highways. For some reason it has regressed.
I am absolutely convinced that HW 3.0 will not achieve FSD. You cannot refit a HW 3.0 vehicle to 4.0. There is going to be a huge lawsuit over this.
Oh I know, somehow the non-FSD stack has also regressed. Completely missing highway exits, getting into the wrong lane, refusing to stay in the fast lane even with the appropriate setting being turned on, ghost braking, etc..
On city streets, it misses the turn to my neighborhood no matter how many times I reported and video clipped it. It has tried to run into cement barriers on even the latest FSD release. The behavior especially seems to be coded to piss off drivers behind me.
NoA behavior is very location dependent. They simply aren’t working on the existing NoA codebase because it is being supplanted by the FSD codebase. It could be the map tiles too… sometimes we see regressions in those.
It’s always good to have an opinion and I respect that. However, there is a clear and self-explanatory reason why it’s called “beta”
Not that I don’t agree with your opinion… But in my case, FSD “beta” has been Ok/good. Not great, but acceptable for a work-in-progress. Worth $15k? Nah, it should cost at most (I repeat) At most $6k and $3k for EAP imho.
EAP on the other hand is sold as a finished product and I have not had major issues with it. Just 1 (one) Phantom brake 7 months ago and on my first long drive (486 miles) since then, major updates have come through and I have not experienced harsh braking ever since.
I’m on version 10.69. No v11.3.2 for me yet
My 2 cents
Edit: Added FSD version.
Im commenting on current features as is. I shouldn’t have to pin my hopes on a beta of a beta. When you purchase it it says full self driving capability. The word beta never appears, so yeah!
The FSD price is set high enough that:
1. Only people who can casually burn $15k will get it
2. Anyone who does burn $15k will feel embarrassed enough about admitting it, that they will do anything to justify the expense
3. It only makes sense to subscribe
FSD is objectively not worth it. And given how long FSD has been promised, you will likely have a new car before it gets far enough along to justify more than about $5k. Additionally, the next version of FSD will likely require lidar, which you do not have.
I HATED FSD. I liked the lane-change feature on enhanced autopilot, which should just be included with autopilot. FSD drives like a teenager with impulse-control issues. My family got car sick after 5 minutes on FSD and made me promise never to use it again with them in the car.
And, as we've learned in the last year, Elon is not to be trusted. His promises mean nothing until he actually delivers. He's a billionaire now, and like all billionaires, is losing his mental health. He thinks if he just wants FSD to exist hard enough, it will.
Auto lane changes and the summon feature out of my cramped garage are nice features and I could be convinced to fork over the 6k for the enhanced autopilot but I don’t know if I’ll sell it so provably won’t. Otherwise yea the fsd features of fsd are trash.
I just got the subscription and enjoy it on the highway . I would personally never oay 15k. Of course if money isn't a concern at all then why not, but at 200 a month its worth a play. Was nice on the highway
I just want to have 11.3.2 to try it out. Autopilot for sure is kit worth $200/month, but it is worth having in a long road trip. Needs work, but it he engineering is still amazing.
I can't understand why everyone wouldn't want to pay $15k for a beta. If beta is supposed to be the most advanced version... what would you call the non-beta? alpha?
If you pay for it just for what it offers to you today maybe not. If you're excited to be a part of the most amazing technological development in history and revel in trying out the new updates to beta when they come out knowing you're a part of history in the making, as well as knowing that it's going to be incredible in the future (and cost more) then it is worth it.
This Elons greatest scam. Make Tesla owners pay for his companies R&D for an unproven and unsafe product. There is recent lawsuits and documentaries about this.
Also Elon reduced the hardware price in hopes more poor saps would pay for his software so he can charge you an exorbitant amount to collect your data and sell it later. Same model smart TV companies are using.
FSD is in beta so definitely will not be reliable. However, the Tesla fan base will spend the $$$ to provide Tesla with a funded beta testing. Any other company that I know of that goes through an alpha, beta and GA release will provide the product for free to the customers that wanna test things and then at GA will give some sort of discounts. Tesla somehow managed to get people to pay upfront large amounts of money so they can find the development all the way up to GA.
I will gladly participate in the beta without paying anything and then at GA I might or might not buy the feature. But paying on the beta is not a great idea.
Woa, hot take. Everyone knows that in its current form it’s not worth it. It’s priced on the assumption they will achieve level 5 at some point within the next few years.
The market for buying outright, are techies trying to support the AI dream. Plenty of people are in that camp. Not worth it for your average Joe.
I subscribed for 1 month. Currently on a cross country drive San Diego to Washington DC. Worth it for the week in case I nod off from boredom. But even on relatively straight highway. Random jerkiness and weird lane changes.
Non-beta FSD is quite terrible. Where I LOVE FSD Beta (I’m not on 11 yet though…) are on familiar roads where I have a feeling for how the car is going to react, and I…need to eat at the same time ;)
Yes, it’s dangerous, but it’s less dangerous than eating while driving without FSD. I can pay attention to my surroundings better while making sure I don’t make a mess that causes me to look down :D
Anyways…that being said, $15k is terrible. If you can afford it and you’re fine with it, cool beans. I’m doing monthly right now and will likely take a break after I play with v11…
I paid the $200 last week for a road trip. And I’ll have another road trip w/in the month for Easter. So for the first trip. There was a big accident on freeway leaving Vegas. It took 3.5 hours to go 12 miles! (Which took 8 min coming back)
AND it was so worth it for that! Since I was going so slow- 0-5 for 3.5 hours. I never had to put my hands on steering wheel or pedals. It was amazing. I did turn off automatic lane change. It never wants to be in the fast ‘passing lane’.
Summon isn’t available to try or self park which is a bummer.
But definitely not worth $15k!
I put my iPad on top of screen and we watched movies! I was literally on the on-ramp for 30 min and we didn’t move. Worst traffic I’ve ever been in.
15k could only be justifiable on a finished, no need to keep touching the steering wheel, door to door product. It's hilarious to me that people need to still touch the wheel every x minutes, what the hell is the point then? Is driving really that exhausting?
For my own info... do you think it actually makes it harder to drive? Or do you think that even though you sometimes have to intervene it still makes trips overall easier?
Most of the used stock I see on Tesla website comes with FSD (even though no one I know buys it on a new vehicle), which leads me to believe that FSD is more of a marketing gimmick by Tesla to sell used vehicles for a premium rather than something they expect new vehicle owners to buy. It costs Tesla nothing to re-enable FSD, and doing so automatically gets our subconscious to tack on the cost of FSD to the price of the car when determining it's "fair value".
In my view all options included in Enhanced Auto Pilot should be included in basic Auto Pilot as standard. If someone still.wants drive in city stop and go light features of FSD then pay max 2k. Subscription for FSD should not be more than 9.99 per month
> I also find that the car will go way too fast into intersections that are red and then slam on the breaks where I like to slowly slow down and creep into a stop..
I find the same is true with standard cruise control and slowing when there's slow/stopped traffic. The fact that this isn't adjustable for the occupants' comfort makes it hard for me to trust its automated software at all
If buying FSD meant that I was buying a lifetime subscription to FSD for $15k now, I would do it.
Just like a software license. Take it from Tesla to Tesla, and it would encourage me to buy a Tesla because I’m already in the club. If I rent a Tesla, use my license for FSD.
Not worth buying per vehicle.
I would buy it, at some price, if it was attached to me and not what car I'm in.
I can imagine once it's working better paying $200/mo for summer (road trips) but even then a lot of that is basically get on the I-5 or I-80 and stick on autopilot for two hours at a time until it's time to charge the batteries and drain the bladder. The getting on and off the freeway part isn't the part I want to get rid of.
They made the cost high enough to prohibit adoption, hence less liability on a not so reliable feature. They have it just as a competitive edge, not ready for promise time. Even if it’s ready, most people love to drive their car rather than leave it to a robot.
If FSD is out of beta someday, it’s going to be a game changer and worth even more than 15k .. just a thought. Doesn’t mean you should “lock in” the price now for something in the future. But Tesla will certainly have pricing power if that happens. Ps, I don’t have FSD and can’t afford it yet
Basically you are locking in the price because when it was first rolled out it was 3k, then 5k, 7k, 10k, 12k, now 15k. Do you really think it will be 15k when it will not be in beta anymore? I don't think so. Yes, it's not polished, but remember, it's been only less than 10 years old since it was rolled out. plus, all hardware upgrades are included for future upgrades in technology....so basically...it's an investment.
Bought it on my first two Tesla and not on the 3rd. So not worth it.
Edit. 3k for the first two.
I have auto Lane change turned off because it's quite stupid and dangerous.
Still doesn't know what to do on merge or Lane split.
Horrible when making two left turns as indicated by navigation...
A person would get on the left most Lane to turn left knowing they have to make another left real soon....
Fsd goes to the 2nd from the left lane, and no way it would make the follow-up left then with all the cars on the road 😨😨😨(happened yesterday when my son wanted the computer to drive us home)
I will jump in here. Bought my M3 in 2019. Added EAP in 2020. Have had it since then. Just subscribed for $99 this past December. Everyone has a different experience. Some folks in certain parts of the country report horrible experiences. Some folks have very minor issues. I will say here in northern VA I have had a good experience. Of course there is the typical occasional phantom braking. NoAP has been a life saver for road trips. I can’t live without it now. FSD beta overall has been a plus for me. Have has several drives of 30 to 50 miles around the area (highway, streets, residential in one drive) with no interventions. Sometimes it does quirky things but that is why it’s beta. Just my 2 cents.
I over paid and don’t care. I still love it. It’s not what I thought it would be. It sure does make life easier for work being in sales and driving to lacrosse games across town for my son.
If it actually worked and they provided all the hardware upgrades that would be required to make it work I would consider. That said, it was no where close to usable on my 21MYLR. Sold that and got a 22MYP without FSD 👍
Generally it is not worth it, but it is amazing technology. Struggles badly at times but to be expected with new tech. The rate of improvement with each update is very impressive.
I drive 20-30k miles a year for work and I use it prob 60-80% of the time I am solo. Really takes off the fatigue of driving.
Do not use much with passengers unless they want a demo or it’s highway/interstate driving. Not smooth enough yet.
It’s ok to just say it sucks. No need for the supporting facts. It just sucks, doesn’t work and isn’t safe. Personally, I don’t know how there’s not a massive class action law suit. I know of no other product that has promised so much and delivered so little, and yet people still feel bad for daring to speak of its massive shortcomings.
I love my Model 3 but wish their upgrade configuration was different. Currently having limited smart summon and auto parking capabilities in transition to “Tesla Vision”. Maybe instead make those features exclusive to FSD and make the practical highway features that do work well already standard auto pilot features and get rid of enhanced auto pilot tier all together. 6k is way too much for it and no subscription available for road trips is just strange. If it were like $25-30 a month or $250 yr for Auto Pilot and it had all the standard features plus Navigation on Autopilot and Self Lane Change and some assisted parking I think it would be the clear choice.
I’m currently driving a replacement car while my Y is in service. First time I’m able to try out FSD. I turned it off after 2 rides. It’s that bad. I wouldn’t pay anything for it at this current state. I’d litterally turn it off if I got it for free tomorrow.
This seems to be the general opinon.. But looking at the new 11 builds with one stack it seems way better then the one I'm using currently.
I do not think it is as far away getting a good experiense as you might think. But I might be proven wrong.
Have a look at a beta-tester here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR3en5TTums&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR3en5TTums&t=1s)
\[Edit\] Added link
New FSD 11 is almost worth it. But until it’s a fully working product where I have 0 engagements and the car can go out to earn me money it is not worth it.
Imo teslas are not worth it without FSD. But that’s just me, it works amazingly well 90% of the time and it’s a big energy saver for me on long drives or bad LA traffic. If I had your experience I wouldn’t love it ether. My biggest pet peeve with FSD is the random for no reason signal lights.
p.s. I’m also a geek so I just enjoy this kinda stuff.
Duh
Apparently OP doesn’t even have FSD Beta, lol.
It’s worth maybe tops $3K. $15K is a joke
Should be included with the car
Exactly. This should be their advantage
its about 3-4k difference on a used tesla Eventually though, IF FSD is one day licensed for use in robo taxis. Is your FDS tesla now also allowed to robo taxi? Put it on uber mode when you are not using it. Making money while you sleep. If yes, then the value of FSD will be much much greater. That the only scenario where I see it being worth 12k. Because it makes you 40k
Def not worth the money. It's not transferable - total your car and poof it's gone. I am not even sure if insurance will cover it. It's not a finished product. When you trade in your vehicle, some places will not even take the peice you paid into account. I plan on paying for the $200 when I have to travel long distances, then cancel it.
Even for long trips it doesn't make sense to pay $200/mo because FSD is basically in-city autopilot. On highways, if you drive patiently in the slower lane, the regular Autopilot is quite sufficient/capable. Just my opinion, your needs may vary.
Nags more with FSD on highways cus stupid cabin camera won’t let you look anywhere else but forward
Wear sunglasses! Works for me.
This. Until it’s completely polished I will only try out during road trip for $200 .
For what? Free AP does just fine. Half the time lane change on FSD has to be intervened anyway as its not good at zipper merging
All I use from EAP is changing lanes when I put on the turn signal instead of disengaging/re-engaging. If Tesla would add that to base AP or at least auto re-engage when you manually change lanes like almost every other car with lane keeping, I would be happy.
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AP is FREE. EAP is $6k
Is there any benefit to FSD on the highway over basic autopilot other than lane change using blinkers that you can get on enhanced autopilot?
It takes exits for you. Very helpful if you're the type to miss exits.
For 15k… I’ll just take the next exit
True but for a cross-country road trip, $200 may be a good value.
EAP does this, it just stops at the end of the off ramp. Even less of a reason to get FSD.
Currently there's no difference between EAP and FSD on highways. Even if you have the beta, as soon as you hit a major highway, you're running on the same software stack as EAP.
That just changed yesterday, wide update now has FSDb on city and highway. From reports lane changes are more logical and supersmooth compared to std. Autopilot. I'm going to try it out this Saturday.
I am the type to miss exists merged and spiderweb highways like LA or Vegas or SF I hate them
What gets me is that it's 15k right now at it's current state. It's going to be crazy expensive if they ever get it polished
The non-transferable part is what blows my mind
This is what will make Tesla miss out on added revenue from people who wanted to upgrade to a newer model. Someone who paid $5k for it is going to be royally pissed if they have to pay another $15k to upgrade their car. I'm going to keep my 3 with my cheapass "FSD" til the car stops moving. lol
Not being rude, wondering with other cars what are you able to transfer to another car? Or do you mean selling to a new owner they can’t have the FSD you paid for?
I’m convinced Tesla will eventually give it away for free once competition ramps up some more.
If they do, I’ll need a day off work and a full bag of popcorn to follow this sub.
Waiting for them to give away Acceleration Boost for free 🙃
Maybe start reducing prices over time? I’d be very surprised if something went from 15k to 0
Would be about what it’s worth IMO. I’ve wondered if Tesla didn’t increase the price so much trying to deter people from getting it so they could turn the page without the media saying they abandoned it. Tesla definitely finds themself in a pickle with it. It’s not a viable product IMO.
This doesn’t really make sense to me. It just increases the return from the eventual lawsuit.
Imo it’s fine for what it is, a beta. Charging someone 15k to beta test, and not allowing transfer to a new vehicle is absurd tho
I think the competition is more likely to follow suite with a subscription based model. Albeit probably lower than $200/month.
I think they’ll keep a hefty price tag for it (though maybe less), but I expect that eventually they will allow you to transfer it when you trade in a car to them. Though they might make low-ball trade in offers to go with that “transfer”.
Is this a version 11.3.2 statement?
No, I’m on 2023.2.11. Not the beta.
Genuine question for captin genius here: are you on FSD or not? did you pay 15k or 200 a month or not? simple as that? You’re post suggests that you paid for FSD but you’re on 2023.2.11 which clearly doesn’t have FSD which means you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Wait so you’re making a post about FSD without being on the FSD software? What are you smoking?
According to Tesla it’s the current non beta version of FSD. Thanks for proving my point
There is no non beta version of FSD. If you purchased FSD and you are on the software you say you are, you have Enhanced Autopilot, not FSD. If you would like to use the FSD software, press the button in your Autopilot settings to opt-in, and your car will update to it when the path is available for your software.
It’s purchased. I don’t have any upgrades and never enrolled in any beta. The app says it’s full self driving capability and that was 15,000
Right, and in order to get the product you paid 15,000 for, you have to opt-in in the Autopilot menu and wait for it to be pushed to your car. I don’t understand why you would pay 15k for it and then just NOT use it?
I dont think you're qualified to comment if you aren't on the Beta. You have Autopilot with automatic lane changes and traffic light control, thats it. Both work better on the FSD Beta build.
But the point is that $15K pays for non-beta FSD. So OP is qualified to say $15K is a ripoff, because you pay for FSD, not FSD beta.
What are you smoking? There are three tiers to Tesla's driver assist options. Autopilot (standard on all vehicles) Enhanced Autopilot ($6k upgrade) FSD ($15k upgrade/$200 per month subscription) If the OP does not have FSD, then they really cannot comment about FSD.
OP has FSD. OP does not have FSD Beta.
I'm going to need you to break down what you mean by that. How can OP have "FSD" without being part of the beta?
> How can OP have "FSD" without being part of the beta? See Tesla's order page. It only mentions Stop sign and traffic light control for $15,000 FSD. "Autosteer on city streets" is coming soon. https://i.imgur.com/oFxsaPJ.png In your previous post, your 3rd tier should actually be: 3\. FSD ($15k upgrade/$200 per month subscription) a. regular FSD: EAP + Stop sign and traffic light control. No "autosteer on city streets". b. beta FSD: the "real FSD" that most people talk about, with door to door self driving. some people have to wait months to get Beta FSD (even though already paid the $15K or $200/month).
>a. regular FSD: EAP + Stop sign and traffic light control. No "autosteer on city streets". b. beta FSD: the "real FSD" that most people talk about, with door to door self driving. Wow. That is a new one for me. I guess you can define FSD however you want. Let me be crystal clear though. There is only FSD beta. You are kidding yourself trying to draw a distinction between a. and b.
Some people just don’t have a clue.
Not at all. It’s what’s currently offered by Tesla. I shouldn’t have to pin my hopes on a beta of a beta to enjoy a feature that was sold as near ready. Clearly it isn’t!
I.... I don't think you really know what the FSD Beta is.... you're literally driving with enhanced auto-pilot... not FSD.
Whose fault is that? What’s the F stand for in FSD? Is the Beta the default? Think this helps inform why OP is qualified to say whatever he wants.
Whose fault is it that OP is not using FSD? It is OP's fault. If they have not bought/subscribed to FSD, then why would they comment about it?
Notice how I never mentioned Beta…. In fact when you go to purchase it is listed as “full self driving capability.” The word beta never appears.
I thought it was well understood that purchasing FSD was purchasing the hope of a future state yet unrealized. I believe Elon said when it is realized it will be worth $100k IIRC.
Huh? Lol
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The hwy used autopilot. You can tell because the whole road display style changes
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Yeah, enhanced autopilot is all ppl need. And really only autopilot plus auto lane change
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So true
I have a feeling you’re talking about auto pilot or enhanced auto pilot, not FSD.
Again, Tesla sells it as FSD. [https://www.tesla.com/en_eu/support/autopilot](https://www.tesla.com/en_eu/support/autopilot)
There is clearly a distinction between, autopilot, enhanced autopilot AND FSD. So are you talking about FSD or what? You can’t call all of them FSD because they aren’t. You’re title suggests you’re talking about FSD which you need to opt in and pay 15k for which you didn’t.
Again, not how Tesla sells it! The sell it’s a FSD capable. That’s pretty black and white. Your also assuming that I haven’t paid for it. That assumption is wrong. Your translation so far is, “How dare you speaketh badly of FSD you poor peasant.” /s
What are you talking about? Can you read? That’s literally NOT how they sell it lol. It says right there: “Autopilot comes standard on every new Tesla. For owners who took delivery of their cars without Autopilot, there are two Autopilot packages available for purchase, depending on when your car was built: Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability….” It’s fucking confusing and you are misleading people into thinking that you are talking about FSD and that you paid $15,000 for it. Did you paid for it? Is that what you’re talking about or you’re just changing the subject now because me and others are calling you out. I don’t care if FSD is bad or good, I care about the truth.
You are spreading misinformation. It IS how they are selling it. Right now if you bought FSD it's not listed as a beta in their app. You keep playing word salad here. Even your own post doesn't mention the word beta in it. If you read my OP you can clearly tell I bought it. How can I give it's not worth it post if I haven't bought it? Your post is fucking hilarious because your assumptions are not even on the same planet! Come back down to earth!
When did i ever mentioned the word “beta”? I don’t care if they call it beta or alpha. I’m talking about FSD, v11. Are you on v11 FSD?
You just proved my point. I'm talking about FSD as it is under 2023.2.11 and later. You can purchase FSD and NOT be a part of the FSD v11. You don't seem to get that point and have completely missed it. Purchasing FSD gives you to navigate on auto pilot, auto lane change, auto park, summon, smart summon, and traffic light and stop sign control. It's called FSD for a reason, aka Full Self Driving capability. When you buy it, nowhere does it say you must join the beta. YOU keep assuming you do. That is 100 percent false. Before you try playing word salad again saying that it's not the same, I'm not the one who called it FSD.. Tesla did. I'm using Tesla's own terminology and what you get when you pay the 15,000 or monthly fee. Gotcha! Now you gonna unleash those adhomiem attacks like ya did before! LMAO!
lol FSD is beta you moron. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about here. Do you even know how to use FSD? or you thought you were using FSD but you were just using auto pilot.
Oh now your back to ad hominem!
Autopilot is an advanced driver assistance system that assists your car with steering, accelerating and braking for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane. It assists with the most burdensome parts of driving and work alongside features like emergency braking, collision warning and blind-spot monitoring. With Full Self-Driving (FSD) capability, you will get access to a suite of more advanced driver assistance features, designed to provide more active guidance and assisted driving under your active supervision. If you have not already purchased FSD capability and your vehicle has FSD computer 3.0 or above, you can subscribe to FSD capability from the Tesla app or your vehicle’s touchscreen. Source: [https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions#tesla-accordion-v2-1040-can-i-request-full-self-driving-beta-if-i-am-subscribed-to-tesla-full-self-driving-capabilities](https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions#tesla-accordion-v2-1040-can-i-request-full-self-driving-beta-if-i-am-subscribed-to-tesla-full-self-driving-capabilities)
Exactly, which part of that don’t you get? It says you can “subscribe” to FSD if you don’t have it already.
I don't have it on my Y, but my M3 loaner had it, and it was completely useless and frankly dangerous in the urban environment surrounding my house in DC. I'm thrilled I didn't buy it because you have to constantly intervene, defeating the purpose. It was completely incapable of handling traffic patterns in my neighborhood of NE DC. Autopilot on the highway is maybe 85-95% of FSD at no cost, and totally satisfactory for the little I drive long distances. Don't feel I'm missing much, and no, you aren't crazy.
Same experience. Loaner had it and other than highway driving, it gave me more anxiety than just doing it myself. Had to take over everytime I exited the highway.
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I think almost everyone will agree with you on this, even most of the people that have and use FSD. I personally can't wrap my head around paying to beta test something that we have no working idea on when it goes gold, let alone paying $15k to do all that. I can *almost* wrap my head around trying it out for $200, but you do that knowing that it's $200 for a beta that will almost certainly not go gold under your monthly use period, so in some ways it makes even less sense.
I have FSD and enjoy it for long trips. For around town I rarely use it. Buying it early, knowing it was "beta" software, and mostly wanting it to help with driver fatigue on long drives has been a good decision for me. I expect, if, it makes it to L4, the cost will be substantially higher than the current price tag. And if it gets stuck at L3, the price might come down a bit.
Genuine question; is it better for fatigue in long trips than basic autopilot? I haven't taken anything exceedingly long, and maybe you're not specifically referencing Highway driving, but I find AP to be excellent there. Aside from resting my arm on the wheel I suspect I could go hours without any input.
For highway I imagine it would be pretty similar. It is nice that the vehicle can change lanes automatically and take the exit, but the majority of fatigue would be covered by AP. Where I am, there are a lot of rural "highways" I travel on, that go through small towns with stop signs, signal lights, etc.
100% absolutely correct. On top of being buggy, its super slow. No one will pay you extra money for fsd on v3 hardware.
I would 100% pay up to $1000 for auto lane change as an a la carte option. The rest……meh. It’s all either party tricks or unfinished beta software that will likely be beta software for the life of my car. Elon can keep all that.
I would be happy if autosteer would auto-reengage after I signal AND lane change.
Honestly. My wife’s Honda can somehow manage to not disengage LKA when changing lanes but my Tesla just throws its hands up like it’s an unsolvable riddle.
It’s solvable for $6K lol
I paid only 5k for mine in 2020 and I don’t think it was worth it
Same.
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Same thing here, I got FSD at 8k on a 2020 M3SR+. The car ended up not being a good fit for the family and winter weather. I ended up selling it and getting a MYLR 2022 but I opted not to get FSD again. I am picking up a MYP next week, and definitely not getting it. I am just really bitter that FSD is non-transferable.
I just don't get why it isn't account based. It's software. If i get 3 cars, why do i have to buy it 3 times?
Unless you're signing up for and using the beta then it's definitely not worth... If you're not using the software you paid for what is the point?
I bought FSD on a MYLR for 12k. Missed the 10K mark by a day because I waited to order. Oh well. It sucks I can’t take it with me if I get another Tesla but as quirky as it is….I still love it. For my area and normal routes of driving it works pretty good with minimal complaints. I’d say about 75% of my total 5K miles are on FSD. I use it almost all the time. The new 15k price tag makes me pause a little but I’d probably do it again, or at least the monthly sub. Hell I’ve spent more on worse lol. Like the awesome plasma tv when it first came out. Or the swimming pool that no one uses anymore. Don’t even get me started on the 10 year old Ferrari that sits in the garage and sees maybe 2k miles a year. Friggin maintenance is almost as much as the car. This is definitely one of those “you’re money you’re choice” decisions. For me I say the hell with it… can’t take it with you 😉 If your home, your family, and your retirement savings are solid. Then screw it. Buy what you want if it makes you happy. You earned it. Or don’t. No one cares in the end 😉
You’re definitely paying for the privilege of being involved in the making of the sausage, not enjoying the final product. I personally am fine paying for this (and do), but I 100% understand why many are not, and Tesla has never been completely forthcoming from a marketing perspective about any of it.
I can’t imagine a more ridiculous waste of money at this point in time.
Reading the comments... I am fairly sure the OP does not actually have FSD. I think they just have AP, maybe EAP. If so... yikes.
Notice how I never mentioned Beta…. In fact when you go to purchase it is listed as “full self driving capability.” The word beta never appears.
>Notice how I never mentioned Beta What does that have to do with the price of butter? If you do not buy or subscribe to FSD, then you cannot use it. If you cannot use it, then your post about "FSD" is worthless because you are not, in fact, using FSD at all. Have you bought or subscribed to FSD? If so, are you sure you are "in". Because, even after buying/subscribing, there can be a wait period before your vehicle updates. Based on your comment about which version of software your car is running, I am pretty confident when I say you are not using FSD. You are using either AP or EAP.
Again, Tesla sells it as “full self driving capability”. What’s currently available outside of the beta is crap! They advertise it as FSD. So yeah! It’s FSD because that’s the way Tesla sells it!
"Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you are correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who." Good talk, mate. You are hilariously wrong, but I'm going to take Twain's advice and not bother.
I can’t believe I read through all this and became influenced about FSD by someone who is confused about the 3 levels of autopilot, how they work together, and most likely doesn’t even have FSD. Then justifies making uninformed claims by suggesting that Tesla said his car is CAPABLE of having FSD therefore he does. 2023, man.
I see how it is you go straight to ad hominem when proven wrong. Stay classy San Diego!
We are basically the crash test dummies... we pay our hard earned dollar to beta test and improve the system for Tesla. Tesla should be paying us to do that for them, not the other way around!
Any one considering FSD should know that it is not perfect now but getting there. Once its perfect, everyone wants it. Can you pay a price now so that future upside potential is locked for you is the right question imo. Having said that, FSD tied to a car instead of an individual purchasing it is a no go for me at this time. When this changes, I am all in!!!!
This isn't even an opinion anymore. Its priced at $15k because they upped the price over and over to get short term gains from FOMO buyers and now they can't reduce it without pissing them off, eliminating a huge advantage they have selling used Tesla's, and devaluing something they want to keep pretending has value.
it's a hard thing to price.... if it's not completely ready it won't be worth much of anything.... However as soon as it is ready... I would argue it is worth way more than 15k for a lifetime license (even if its the lifetime of the car).... I think the long term plan of Tesla is that they don't want to sell people a license to FSD for a one-time fee... as soon as FSD is ready or even "really close to ready", I expect the straight up buying option to go away and leaving only the subscription.... That's the whole point, tesla don't want to increase the number of cars that has a lifetime FSD license, because they know as soon as its ready, they can get way more from subscriptions than selling licenses.... to me its well worth it, seeing the technology evolve in front of my eyes and be able to experience the progress in near real time... it's exciting... but i'm into tech so i understand that's not for everyone.... I just can't help but roll my eyes at people saying it's not worth the 15k, yes its not in its current state... but once it is, it won't be sold for 15k...
Agree
You aren't alone
For some reason I find that EAP drives like a drunk human while regular autopilot is always spot on and less jerky with steering movements and surrounding traffic. (Model 3).
You are correct.
Genuinely feel bad for anyone who got the FSD beta. Why would you get such a cool car to let software drive you around, while having to be hyper alert because of its unreliability. Enhanced autopilot is all you need.
Not just not worth the money, it’s downright dangerous if taken at face value. Tesla uses customers and bystanders as Guinea pigs for testing that software live on roads. And it asks customers to pay to test it.
FSD is worth it in my opinion. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. No one cares. Accept responsibility for your decisions.
I bought it for $7K, would not buy it again. I don't even like turning it on while driving on highways. For some reason it has regressed. I am absolutely convinced that HW 3.0 will not achieve FSD. You cannot refit a HW 3.0 vehicle to 4.0. There is going to be a huge lawsuit over this.
Unless you have the latest v11, the FSD stack didn’t work on highways.
Oh I know, somehow the non-FSD stack has also regressed. Completely missing highway exits, getting into the wrong lane, refusing to stay in the fast lane even with the appropriate setting being turned on, ghost braking, etc.. On city streets, it misses the turn to my neighborhood no matter how many times I reported and video clipped it. It has tried to run into cement barriers on even the latest FSD release. The behavior especially seems to be coded to piss off drivers behind me.
NoA behavior is very location dependent. They simply aren’t working on the existing NoA codebase because it is being supplanted by the FSD codebase. It could be the map tiles too… sometimes we see regressions in those.
tesla anticipated this and requires arbitration.
Yet the current beta drives amazing on HW3, strange.
It’s always good to have an opinion and I respect that. However, there is a clear and self-explanatory reason why it’s called “beta” Not that I don’t agree with your opinion… But in my case, FSD “beta” has been Ok/good. Not great, but acceptable for a work-in-progress. Worth $15k? Nah, it should cost at most (I repeat) At most $6k and $3k for EAP imho. EAP on the other hand is sold as a finished product and I have not had major issues with it. Just 1 (one) Phantom brake 7 months ago and on my first long drive (486 miles) since then, major updates have come through and I have not experienced harsh braking ever since. I’m on version 10.69. No v11.3.2 for me yet My 2 cents Edit: Added FSD version.
Lol OP isnt even in the Beta
Im commenting on current features as is. I shouldn’t have to pin my hopes on a beta of a beta. When you purchase it it says full self driving capability. The word beta never appears, so yeah!
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It’s beta for a reason, it blows my mind people make posts like this. Of course it’s going to have issues it’s BETA SOFTWARE.
And OP doesn’t even have FSD beta lol
SMH
Notice how I never mentioned Beta…. In fact when you go to purchase it is listed as “full self driving capability.” The word beta never appears.
The FSD price is set high enough that: 1. Only people who can casually burn $15k will get it 2. Anyone who does burn $15k will feel embarrassed enough about admitting it, that they will do anything to justify the expense 3. It only makes sense to subscribe FSD is objectively not worth it. And given how long FSD has been promised, you will likely have a new car before it gets far enough along to justify more than about $5k. Additionally, the next version of FSD will likely require lidar, which you do not have. I HATED FSD. I liked the lane-change feature on enhanced autopilot, which should just be included with autopilot. FSD drives like a teenager with impulse-control issues. My family got car sick after 5 minutes on FSD and made me promise never to use it again with them in the car. And, as we've learned in the last year, Elon is not to be trusted. His promises mean nothing until he actually delivers. He's a billionaire now, and like all billionaires, is losing his mental health. He thinks if he just wants FSD to exist hard enough, it will.
Agreed. That’s why everyone should do their research before buying. At the very least just subscribe and have some fun.
agree. i had it for awhile, and after getting my head whipped around when the darn car suddenly slowed hard, FSD is a hard no from now on.
Obviously. Wth lol
Duh.....
Duh..........
Worth it for long trip on highway only. Auto lane change is excellent.
Auto lane changes and the summon feature out of my cramped garage are nice features and I could be convinced to fork over the 6k for the enhanced autopilot but I don’t know if I’ll sell it so provably won’t. Otherwise yea the fsd features of fsd are trash.
I just got the subscription and enjoy it on the highway . I would personally never oay 15k. Of course if money isn't a concern at all then why not, but at 200 a month its worth a play. Was nice on the highway
I just want to have 11.3.2 to try it out. Autopilot for sure is kit worth $200/month, but it is worth having in a long road trip. Needs work, but it he engineering is still amazing.
TBH, I've never read where people say it is worth it.
I can't understand why everyone wouldn't want to pay $15k for a beta. If beta is supposed to be the most advanced version... what would you call the non-beta? alpha?
Yep. We are Hypebeasts
If you pay for it just for what it offers to you today maybe not. If you're excited to be a part of the most amazing technological development in history and revel in trying out the new updates to beta when they come out knowing you're a part of history in the making, as well as knowing that it's going to be incredible in the future (and cost more) then it is worth it.
This Elons greatest scam. Make Tesla owners pay for his companies R&D for an unproven and unsafe product. There is recent lawsuits and documentaries about this. Also Elon reduced the hardware price in hopes more poor saps would pay for his software so he can charge you an exorbitant amount to collect your data and sell it later. Same model smart TV companies are using.
FSD is in beta so definitely will not be reliable. However, the Tesla fan base will spend the $$$ to provide Tesla with a funded beta testing. Any other company that I know of that goes through an alpha, beta and GA release will provide the product for free to the customers that wanna test things and then at GA will give some sort of discounts. Tesla somehow managed to get people to pay upfront large amounts of money so they can find the development all the way up to GA. I will gladly participate in the beta without paying anything and then at GA I might or might not buy the feature. But paying on the beta is not a great idea.
$2000 yes but not $15,000. Hype
I just order my MY last weekend, I did go for “Enhanced Autopilot” but not FSD. Would folks say EA is worth it?
Woa, hot take. Everyone knows that in its current form it’s not worth it. It’s priced on the assumption they will achieve level 5 at some point within the next few years.
The market for buying outright, are techies trying to support the AI dream. Plenty of people are in that camp. Not worth it for your average Joe. I subscribed for 1 month. Currently on a cross country drive San Diego to Washington DC. Worth it for the week in case I nod off from boredom. But even on relatively straight highway. Random jerkiness and weird lane changes.
Non-beta FSD is quite terrible. Where I LOVE FSD Beta (I’m not on 11 yet though…) are on familiar roads where I have a feeling for how the car is going to react, and I…need to eat at the same time ;) Yes, it’s dangerous, but it’s less dangerous than eating while driving without FSD. I can pay attention to my surroundings better while making sure I don’t make a mess that causes me to look down :D Anyways…that being said, $15k is terrible. If you can afford it and you’re fine with it, cool beans. I’m doing monthly right now and will likely take a break after I play with v11…
I paid the $200 last week for a road trip. And I’ll have another road trip w/in the month for Easter. So for the first trip. There was a big accident on freeway leaving Vegas. It took 3.5 hours to go 12 miles! (Which took 8 min coming back) AND it was so worth it for that! Since I was going so slow- 0-5 for 3.5 hours. I never had to put my hands on steering wheel or pedals. It was amazing. I did turn off automatic lane change. It never wants to be in the fast ‘passing lane’. Summon isn’t available to try or self park which is a bummer. But definitely not worth $15k! I put my iPad on top of screen and we watched movies! I was literally on the on-ramp for 30 min and we didn’t move. Worst traffic I’ve ever been in.
15k could only be justifiable on a finished, no need to keep touching the steering wheel, door to door product. It's hilarious to me that people need to still touch the wheel every x minutes, what the hell is the point then? Is driving really that exhausting?
For my own info... do you think it actually makes it harder to drive? Or do you think that even though you sometimes have to intervene it still makes trips overall easier?
Most of the used stock I see on Tesla website comes with FSD (even though no one I know buys it on a new vehicle), which leads me to believe that FSD is more of a marketing gimmick by Tesla to sell used vehicles for a premium rather than something they expect new vehicle owners to buy. It costs Tesla nothing to re-enable FSD, and doing so automatically gets our subconscious to tack on the cost of FSD to the price of the car when determining it's "fair value".
In my view all options included in Enhanced Auto Pilot should be included in basic Auto Pilot as standard. If someone still.wants drive in city stop and go light features of FSD then pay max 2k. Subscription for FSD should not be more than 9.99 per month
> I also find that the car will go way too fast into intersections that are red and then slam on the breaks where I like to slowly slow down and creep into a stop.. I find the same is true with standard cruise control and slowing when there's slow/stopped traffic. The fact that this isn't adjustable for the occupants' comfort makes it hard for me to trust its automated software at all
I agree with you 💯. In my opinion $5000 will be a good price for it. Nothing more.
If buying FSD meant that I was buying a lifetime subscription to FSD for $15k now, I would do it. Just like a software license. Take it from Tesla to Tesla, and it would encourage me to buy a Tesla because I’m already in the club. If I rent a Tesla, use my license for FSD. Not worth buying per vehicle.
It's zero interest capital to keep developing the neural network. Why not right?
I would buy it, at some price, if it was attached to me and not what car I'm in. I can imagine once it's working better paying $200/mo for summer (road trips) but even then a lot of that is basically get on the I-5 or I-80 and stick on autopilot for two hours at a time until it's time to charge the batteries and drain the bladder. The getting on and off the freeway part isn't the part I want to get rid of.
They made the cost high enough to prohibit adoption, hence less liability on a not so reliable feature. They have it just as a competitive edge, not ready for promise time. Even if it’s ready, most people love to drive their car rather than leave it to a robot.
If FSD is out of beta someday, it’s going to be a game changer and worth even more than 15k .. just a thought. Doesn’t mean you should “lock in” the price now for something in the future. But Tesla will certainly have pricing power if that happens. Ps, I don’t have FSD and can’t afford it yet
Basically you are locking in the price because when it was first rolled out it was 3k, then 5k, 7k, 10k, 12k, now 15k. Do you really think it will be 15k when it will not be in beta anymore? I don't think so. Yes, it's not polished, but remember, it's been only less than 10 years old since it was rolled out. plus, all hardware upgrades are included for future upgrades in technology....so basically...it's an investment.
in its current iteration, its not worth $1500. TBH
Wow… this post absolutely makes me happy that I opted out of FSD last moment….
Bought it on my first two Tesla and not on the 3rd. So not worth it. Edit. 3k for the first two. I have auto Lane change turned off because it's quite stupid and dangerous. Still doesn't know what to do on merge or Lane split. Horrible when making two left turns as indicated by navigation... A person would get on the left most Lane to turn left knowing they have to make another left real soon.... Fsd goes to the 2nd from the left lane, and no way it would make the follow-up left then with all the cars on the road 😨😨😨(happened yesterday when my son wanted the computer to drive us home)
For a road trip, it is a good back up driver. Your speed is maintained, you can avoid some crazy drivers, etc etc. Worth it in my opinion.
I will jump in here. Bought my M3 in 2019. Added EAP in 2020. Have had it since then. Just subscribed for $99 this past December. Everyone has a different experience. Some folks in certain parts of the country report horrible experiences. Some folks have very minor issues. I will say here in northern VA I have had a good experience. Of course there is the typical occasional phantom braking. NoAP has been a life saver for road trips. I can’t live without it now. FSD beta overall has been a plus for me. Have has several drives of 30 to 50 miles around the area (highway, streets, residential in one drive) with no interventions. Sometimes it does quirky things but that is why it’s beta. Just my 2 cents.
Did you think it would actually fully drive your car?
I over paid and don’t care. I still love it. It’s not what I thought it would be. It sure does make life easier for work being in sales and driving to lacrosse games across town for my son.
Sounds like everyone bought a pig in a poke.
I got FSD when it was still 10,000. Still a waste of money. I can’t figure out what I paid for. It’s terrible
If it actually worked and they provided all the hardware upgrades that would be required to make it work I would consider. That said, it was no where close to usable on my 21MYLR. Sold that and got a 22MYP without FSD 👍
This is the least hot take possible.
It’s worth everything or nothing, there’s no in between
I will always agree with this apparently. Thanks Elon!
$15k, u can buy a decent used car.
In other news, the sky is blue.
It’s 15k now?! Jesus, who is still buying this?! I paid like 7 almost 2 years ago and still don’t have it.
Huge scam.
Brave opinion
I have to agree, I have FSD and I always have it turned off, it's buggy and neggy. I wouldn't even pay 50.00 a month. It's worthless imo
Generally it is not worth it, but it is amazing technology. Struggles badly at times but to be expected with new tech. The rate of improvement with each update is very impressive. I drive 20-30k miles a year for work and I use it prob 60-80% of the time I am solo. Really takes off the fatigue of driving. Do not use much with passengers unless they want a demo or it’s highway/interstate driving. Not smooth enough yet.
It’s ok to just say it sucks. No need for the supporting facts. It just sucks, doesn’t work and isn’t safe. Personally, I don’t know how there’s not a massive class action law suit. I know of no other product that has promised so much and delivered so little, and yet people still feel bad for daring to speak of its massive shortcomings.
100% agree
I love my Model 3 but wish their upgrade configuration was different. Currently having limited smart summon and auto parking capabilities in transition to “Tesla Vision”. Maybe instead make those features exclusive to FSD and make the practical highway features that do work well already standard auto pilot features and get rid of enhanced auto pilot tier all together. 6k is way too much for it and no subscription available for road trips is just strange. If it were like $25-30 a month or $250 yr for Auto Pilot and it had all the standard features plus Navigation on Autopilot and Self Lane Change and some assisted parking I think it would be the clear choice.
Not worth it.
Yet. Eventually it will be worth a high cost. Debatable what that is…
I’m currently driving a replacement car while my Y is in service. First time I’m able to try out FSD. I turned it off after 2 rides. It’s that bad. I wouldn’t pay anything for it at this current state. I’d litterally turn it off if I got it for free tomorrow.
Completely agree. Same for enhanced auto pilot for me as well. No way I’m adding 21k to then cost of these vehicles.
Is enhanced autopilot worth it?
This seems to be the general opinon.. But looking at the new 11 builds with one stack it seems way better then the one I'm using currently. I do not think it is as far away getting a good experiense as you might think. But I might be proven wrong. Have a look at a beta-tester here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR3en5TTums&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR3en5TTums&t=1s) \[Edit\] Added link
New FSD 11 is almost worth it. But until it’s a fully working product where I have 0 engagements and the car can go out to earn me money it is not worth it.
💯
Personal opinion has always been if you’re buying a Tesla for FSD, you shouldn’t be buying a Tesla.
Hard pass
Imo teslas are not worth it without FSD. But that’s just me, it works amazingly well 90% of the time and it’s a big energy saver for me on long drives or bad LA traffic. If I had your experience I wouldn’t love it ether. My biggest pet peeve with FSD is the random for no reason signal lights. p.s. I’m also a geek so I just enjoy this kinda stuff.