I have heard this from people who have seen all four. I think a lot of the complaints from the first two will be addressed later on. Just not sure whether the unconvinced will stick around that long.
I would like to say before talking about this, it is totally fine to like what you like, but hi I am one of the haters. It wasn't the story that was the issue but just the lack of logic in the script and what felt like a lack of budget put into the show, despite the 150 million dollar price tag the show ran.
The cgi felt so cheap (but that's been true for every show that's not Andor and Mando season 1-2) and the writing had some massive issues (spoilers ahead for those who haven't watched):
* >!Fire doesn't burn in space. !<
* >!A protector of the galaxy and peace in general watches a force assassin assault people and does nothing until everyone are already on the ground with possible fatal injuries. !<
* >!Said protector then just dies (knife kills in this one but lightsaber doesn't in Kenobi or Ahsoka lol). !<
* >!The twin gets framed for other twins actions thing is so played out but how did she even get arrested? Eye witness account from one guy is so accurate from that distance that they are able to make the proper arrest out of billions of people living in that system.!<
* >!She was also on the other side of the star system with multiple people knowing where she is when the murder happened and yet still she is arrested from one mans insanely accurate testimony. !<
* >!She then gets arrested and instead of the jedi arresting her making sure the presumed JEDI KILLER is taken in personally he puts her on a prisoner transport with 1 guard. Didn't see that prison break coming.!<
* >!The 2 jedi are talking about going down to the planet to recover the remaining prisoner. This is strange because they already recovered the escape pod meaning that they would have had to bring the prisoner all the way back to Coruscant to then talk about going all the way back to the planet to get the remainders. This talk should have just been on a ship orbiting the planet.!<
* >! "Steel or laser are no threat to them", She JUST killed one with a blade.!<
* >!Also the lightsaber thing at the end is goofy because no Sith would do that. She already knows this guy, the only thing he would be doing this for is to show the audience he's a Sith. Also even if she didn't know this guy, would a smart Sith just reveal to the person they hired that they are a force user? Just as bad as Maul doing the same thing at the end of Solo (a movie I liked btw). She knows he's a Sith, the audience knows Maul and if they dont they can surmise what he is by the cloak and lightsaber looking hilt in his hand. It's just fanservice done poorly.!<
God I cant wait for Andor season 2 to give me faith in Star Wars again.
I think the "steel and laser are no threat" is more of a metaphor. We see plenty die by laser in Order 66. You can kill an individual Jedi by any means, but he was talking about killing the dream. This is the beginning of the process of the Jedi's downfall.
Sure I know that’s what they were going for, but the whole pseudo-philosophical thing isn’t really selling me on it.
What about the other points the other commenter made?
Not like that. Explosions maybe, but thats egregious. And now we find that stone also burns. And Force users.... excuse me, Thread users who can do force fields cant put it out for some reason. t's getting old.
Yes they fucking do! Also how are the jedi the bad guys and why does this bitch have such a fucking grudge against them when she's the one who killed her entire order and almost her sister by burning the book? like the plot is so injected with agenda it's not even funny. lesbians can produce children from the force, sorry, the thread (not cannon in any fucking way never has been, anakin is the chosen one created by the force to brings balance to it after the major upheaval in power after sideus came to be.) The force isnt a thread, the power of one the power of two the power of many makes no fucking sense whatsoever, and the writing is just lazy and was written to make the writers feel good and not in way way written for the audience that has loved this franchise since its inception
The Jedi don't necessarily come across as the bad guys. We don't know the full story of what happened. Also, someone creating these twins doesn't make Anakin not the Chosen one. So far, we haven't seen the Jedi do anything bad, while the witches are the ones that wanted to kill the Jedi, though calmer heads won out, at least until whatever happened during the fire.
In the eyes of the girl who is literally just finding them and asking them to attack her with full strength after no previous conversation or dialogue? Seems like to me she has proclaimed in her perspective the jedi are her enemy, from brainwashing from the parents and coven and even after the fire and in the first episode when she basically challenges carrie ann to a duel with no prior context to them having met before? She's literally just finding them and challenging them to fights with no precedent or reason other than she throwing a lifelong tantrum that her sister didn't want to be a witch. Its STUPID fucking writing and I can't latch on to any of it.
> Also how are the jedi the bad guys and why does this bitch have such a fucking grudge against them when she's the one who killed her entire order and almost her sister by burning the book?
You’ve so nearly cottoned on to the literary device being used here.
> like the plot is so injected with agenda it's not even funny. lesbians can produce children from the force…
A level of discourse not even worth a response.
Seconded on most. I thought this was headed in the right the direction, but, it’s getting worse. It’s all over the place writing wise, the acting is a little rough in parts as well. That said, the original SW has some rough acting too, but it got better. I’ve seen worse CGI, this felt campy at times. The blending of so many different concepts is the issue for me. Light side, dark side and the force. Trying to weave other concepts with those core systems is not going smoothly. It’s like the show runners and writers are on a different page than the lore, or they don’t care about it or are they doing a poor job of adapting it. I’ll stick with it but this no where near the other SW shows in terms of quality and continuity.
Mae didn't take Indara's light saber.
Unbelievable in every way. Even if she will not use it, she would want to own it or present it to her Master.
Just so stupid.
I enjoyed it, a friend of mine enjoyed it, and most of the reaction channels I watch have enjoyed it. I think a lot of people are projecting things that aren't there, or have not yet been made clear. By the way people were talking, I thought it was gonna be some big gay sex orgy. People are saying it contradicts or minimizes Anakin's creation, but I don't believe they are the same thing.
People hate TROS as well and it has an 86% score. This show has been review bombed by a bunch of haters so they can point to the low score as justification. Cringe? Are you embarrassed easily?
The critics reviews don't lie? The critics review for The Acolyte are 84%, so I guess it is pretty good. The reaction channels I've watched have mostly enjoyed it, the exception being Kristian Harloff, but he doesn't hate it.
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Yeah good thanks. Really enjoyed it. The High Republic has shown different interpretations of the force before, I really dig that kind of worldbuilding. You should try the comics, there’s a whole story arc on Jehda where different force “religions” clash and mingle in different ways. I love that kind of thing. Looking forward to next week!
Am I more or less deranged than someone calling me mentally challenged in reply to a 5 day old post expressing simple enjoyment of a story about space wizards and witches? Whatever the answer, I forgive you as well 🙏
Sure, I prefer the EU over the OT’s. Yet what we got in episode 3 is so thread bare, it hardly counts as an interpretation.
Calling it a “thread” while barely scratching the culture, history, or beliefs of another witch force cult is another example of how little thought goes into these products. Ep 7, 8, 9 also suffered from little planning so the M.O. is established.
George Lucas decided Obi-Wan’s home planet was called Stewjon while on stage being interviewed by John Stewart. Very often individual things created in Star Wars don’t have much thought put into them, and tbh we don’t even really know much yet, they were only introduced literally last night in a 40 minute episode. So I’d wait a little longer before casting judgement.
No antagonism is intended in my response or negative vibes. Thank you for engaging with me. I wouldn’t consider Lucas a good writer. He’s a good businessman. At best, he can be considered an idea guy where many of his ideas have to be challenged. The Prequels proved this.
I mean sure, what you are saying could be true. Yet given the track record of writing blunders in their past shows, the lack of attention to detail that is very evident, I highly doubt we will get anything of substance even if they do go into the back story of this coven.
What about their past shows or track record makes you believe we will get a satisfactory exploration of this thread witch cult in this show?
Simply that, as you say, what I’m saying could be true. I choose to be optimistic about this cool story of cool witches in a fictional world of space wizards. There’s some rough edges for sure, the cinematography is flat, the music hasn’t done much for me so far etc. but the fundamentals of the story are extremely solid for me.
In Leslye Headland you have a showrunner who seems to have more of a deep love and understanding of Star Wars (and apparently the EU) than almost anyone working for Lucasfilm after Filoni. It honestly baffles me that people don’t see that, and I think she’s gonna deliver the goods.
As for attention to detail for a particular race or clique or tribe or whatever faction in Star Wars, it’s always ranged from “pulled out someone’s arse for a deadline” to Ferrix, the realest place in Star Wars. So honestly I’d be fine if we didn’t get much more outside of the clearly incoming other views of that night in Brendok. They’re a cool coven of space witches with a charismatic and wise leader. That’s fine with me.
>access to the first four episodes
I think that once all the episodes have premiered, it will become more clear that this series is more like a ~4-5 hour thriller movie split into 8 parts. So far it doesn't seem narratively structured like The Mandalorian (episodic) or Andor (multi-episode distinct arcs).
Agreed, the series seems very focused on one main plot arc. Haven't heard anything specific, but I'm guessing this will be a limited series with no intent on a second season.
I kinda agree but I also remember that i read somewhere that the showrunner (i think) said, that they are not doing a 4 hour movie or it wouldn‘t work as a movie
Yeah, RT needs to get their crap together. There's no reason to allow audience reviews before it's even released. Probably shouldn't allow star-only ratings either; insist on at least a five word review or something like that. Would screen out the lazier review bombers anyways.
I think they should do what Letterbox does. Anyone can review a movie and give it a rating. But on the movie they track visually everyone's rating and graft them on a five-star chart. They also track metrics for each individual as well.
I dont think you know how RT works because they locked reviews and deleted the prior to launch audience reviews(happens all the time)
And filtering just Star reviews is also dumb, as bots would just put one word reviews
Yep, you can no longer review the series. Now that I've actually seen it, I wanted to add my two cents, but it's going to stay artificially locked I suppose.
but then they can't allow critic review before the movie is released either. Opinions should only benefit or bring down the show, once everyone can see it. otherwise you just invite the shill reviewers
Opposed to allowing biased echochamber critics to give fake reviews? The script and dialogue is absolutely terrible, and that's ignoring the identity politics used for the entirety of the cast and storyline.
No one and I mean no one with any credibility whatsoever thinks the Acolyte is a good show or well written.
As well as the positive review bombing by corpo shill critics. Critc review bombing also can be in the positive direction for the PAID critics who will do or say anything to get on Mickeys good side.The only difference between the positive and negative review bombs are that the negative review bombs arent paid for by the corpos, they are just angry fanatical fans.
Except the critics had actually seen the show before they reviewed the show.
Also... Even if people were paid to upvote a TV show... That's nowhere near as bad as hundreds of thousands of people trying to get a show cancelled before it even launches because they are racist.
LMAO, the old, played out racism card. Thats just a coping mechanism for people who cant handle the truth that their show actually sucks because it has terrible dialogue, bad storytelling and is not consistent with the dozens of hours of live Star Wars movies/shows that preceded it. The showrunner clearly does not respect the lore, does not respect legacy fans and are simply bad writers. The dialogue is so cringe.. What assassin says "Attack me with all your might" before they engage a target?? So dumb. In truth, the only ACTUAL racist remarks that I've heard came from Amandla Stenberg's interview on the Daily Show.
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Where is your evidence of this? Claiming crap like this, is just ammo for the racists to be honest. I'm a proud liberal Brooklynite & the show is truly terrible.
Nobody ever acknowledges the review bombing often goes both ways though. I remember She-Hulk had more 10 star ratings than 1 star ratings on IMDB before it was released.
I didn’t see the scores beforehand so have no idea if it happened or not. Realistically this show isn’t a 1/5 or 5/5 like the majority of the reviews. It’s not a 91% critic score either considering a lot of those “fresh reviews” call it average. Rotten tomatoes scoring is useless.
Because it's pre release review bombing. Whether positive or negative, it pertains to how general audiences manipulate shows for reasons outside genuine quality
Reviewers reviewing after they had seen the show is not "Positive Review Bombing." Thats just review bombing
Audiences who have not seen the show yet review bombing because youtubers are mad about "DEI" is review bombing.
I watched the trailer.
I legit didn't recognise it as a Star Wars series until the first lightsabers were turned on.
I thought it was some medieval alien matrix wannabe show.
The trailer alone let's you know how terrible the show was going to be.
Are you talking about the trailer with the thumbnail of a jedi with a lightsaber on, or the trailer that opens with jedi meditating on coruscant?
Cause either way I think this might be a skill issue on your part.
I've never liked the way rotten tomatoes scores things. Instead of showing the average score for critic reviews, it instead shows the percentage of critics that scored it higher than a certain number. But the audience is even worse. Critics are forced to leave a written review, but the audience can just put down a rating out of 5 stars and they don't even need to have watched it. It is so flawed that it's insane anybody is taking this seriously.
Metacritic has it at a 67. I think that's more accurate.
Source: https://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-acolyte/
Looking at the rest of the shows though; it's not really super reflective on the quality. One of the issues I have with TV show reviews/ratings is people review/rate the show based on the first 2-4 episodes. While those obviously should be really good, it's not always reflective of the show as a whole. Andor was a good example of this. It won people over big-time starting with Episode 6 (not me though, I was bought in from Episode 1). The show elevated to another level.
* The Mandalorian Season 1: 70
* The Mandalorian Season 2: 78
* The Book Of Boba Fett: 59
* Obi-Wan Kenobi: 73
* Andor: 74
* The Mandalorian Season 3: 70
* Ahsoka: 68
Metacritic and rotten tomatoes are both dog shit ratings, metacritic is better but..
IMDb has insanely accurate reviews for everything but comedy, horror, remakes and anime.
90% of comedies score under an 8 and most of those below a 7.5 or 7. Ive parsed the reviews, it's obviously because people watch comedy's who don't like comedy. Weird, but whatever.
Same deal for horror genre. Remake reviews being off doesn't need explaining, and anime reviews are off cause your average anime enjoyer appears to suffer from some kind of brain disorder or damage(genuinely). Or maybe they're just kids lol, IDK.
Yeah IMDb reviews are usually some of the most accurate in my experience except for what you mentioned. Although funnily enough comedy shows usually score quite high while comedy films do not. For acolyte I think there's definitely some review bombing going on though because there's no way a 4.5 is fair. That's not just a bad rating that's like a "worse TV show you've ever seen" rating. I've literally never watched a TV show with an IMDb rating lower than 7 and I've seen plenty of shows worse than acolyte. It currently has a worse rating than the animated ewok show from the 80s. Based on what we've seen so far I'd say it deserves somewhere between 7-7.5.
You know, come to think of it you're right, comedy shows do score much more accurately.. That's strange.
Honestly the 4.5 was going to put me off watching it entirely(there's a reason I look at ratings, I'm not looking to waste my precious time) but something seemed off to me. Like you said, 4.5 would be a monumental failure and I just thought about some of Disneys latest Star Wars stuff.
The Bad Batch, Andor, The Mandalorian.. like... How could they go from stuff like that to a 4.5 show, how could something like that get out of the door? Yea Ashoka wasn't great, but it was at least watchable.
I haven't seen it yet, but I do intend on giving it a go cause something isn't right. I'm thinking it's one of those things that struck a certain political nerve, maybe combo'd with a wrong place wrong time sort of deal that got it burned down.
Lol, the IMDB ratings are far more accurate than Rotten Tomatoes (owned by NBC Universal and Warner Bros) or Metacritic (Owned by Paramount). IMO the IMDb ratings are closest to accurate over all other review sites
Except if you remove the 1's from IMBD rating it still only gets a 5.6 and if you follow the trend and assume a the ridiculous number of 1's are review bombing it gets a 4.46. If you hold 1's to an even dispersion being 10% of reviews. it scores 5.14.
No matter how you look at it, it makes it the worst Star Wars tv show to date. Even when we assume a prolific of bombed data and remove it.
Lol, yeah, another review site owned by the entertainment corpos at Paramount...no thanks..Ever since Rotten Tomatoes was purchased by NBC Universal and Warner Bros, its lost all credibility
It has auto balancing feature though. For every person who gives "obligatory" negative review there is one that does the opposite. It is pointless trying to invent ways to stop it. There is a natural balancing mechanism.
And I am quite sure that if you try to eliminate it, the only reason for that is if you actually are trying to have control over scores which as we witnessed with RT and IMDB has definitely happened.
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>If we ignore RT's algorithms and only look at the average of critic reviews, we get a score of 67%. If we look at the average of audience scores that actually have written out reviews, we get 63%.
This say it all. I think social media algorithms are the Sith's greatist ccomplishment. Any more I now jsut icnore all movie reviews. I now have my own rating system. So currently Ashoka has a 10 and the Acolate is at a 2. 10 and 2 being the number of times I watched both shows, I am sure the Acolate will have a higher score in time.
I think this makes a lot of sense of the IMDb scores as well. The overall rating (where review bombers are most likely to go), the rating is 4.5, but the individual episode scores are around the 6 star mark.
So it's looking like this show is mostly in that 6-ish, slightly above average range.
Though with some of the reactions I'm seeing, it's possible it's a love it or hate it situation that averages out to slightly above average.
Yeah, I think for a lot of people it's love it or hate it, based on the spread. But for me personally, 65% percent feels about right. Not as strong as I'd hoped, but definitely has potential in what it's setting up.
"Deep Dive"
> Calculations are based on 45 randomly chosen audience scores
I really don't see how those numbers could indicate anything one way or another.
They weren't randomly chosen, OP said they "picked the first 45". So if RT puts more positive reviews up front, then it's not representative of anything execpt some bias somewhere. I just looked at the first 10 (it's at 14% now) and they were just chronological and mostly positive (likely bc now with 4 horrible eps in, less people are watching it and there's potential for people that want to help it to review it positively. The recent reviews are pretty generically written which is sus). But that (the first 10 I just looked at) isn't a fair representation either. If OP randomly picked 45 sure thatd be something. But also a sample of 45 out of 10,000+ isn't very representative.
It seems like you cannot get an actually good rating from the services that were supposed to offer these things to consumers. Like so many services that were once great, they have become subpar and less reliable.
As for the actual show, speaking specifically of the first two episodes, there is a level of detail that feels missed when it comes to actions by actors/actresses as well as a logic check to how scenes play out.
For example, we see many "jedi" using the force on doors that were typically automatic in the movies. I.E. master Vernestras' action as she enters the youngling room where she speaks with Master Sol. While small, it is those key details that matter to fans and should also matter to those seeking to portray an established universe.
Another such example of something that doesn't quite track is Knight Yord's Padawan acting more like a logical knight than her master. A small detail, but one that matters.
Personally, I'm hoping that, in the process of story-telling, these discrepancies are addressed and resolved as being intentional because this was a time when Padawans are overly trying to be the grown-up and seemingly stoic masters they wish to emulate and that the doors weren't automatic because they wanted each of the jedi to practice their force-manipulation regularly. But I dont think that's the case. I suspect this is why it is so important to have a logic checker on film sites to ensure true adherence to long established worlds and lore.
Hopefully reviewers also fix their bad algorithms too.
Hey a couple of quick questions - doing some research for a segment on our (Jedi Enclave) live show on wed and doing some background research on this because the RT situation seems to be obviously manipulated.
1. Do you have any formal expertise in statistics, etc?
2. Is it possible that the low reviews without comments are bots?
3. I’ve read in a couple of places that some of the comments seem to read like AI generated, using the same basic language and terms. Was that your experience or no?
1. Yes, worked a decade as an engineer in semiconductor R&D. I will say there were limitations with this data set, like not being able to put numbers to all critic reviews, and not being able to pull all the user review numbers since that data is spread out on many pages and wasn't easily to extract. Which is why I only went with the first 45 reviews.
There are assumptions in this sampling, mainly that the first 45 reviews listed are representative of them all. Yes random sampling would've been better and more data would've been better. But I was looking for an explanation for the huge difference in scores, and I don't think you necessarily need a large sample size or control every possible variable to get a sense of that. And I did scroll through a lot of the later reviews quickly to see if there were obvious differences in early reviews, and I didn't see any. I'm heartened that my adjusted scores in the 60%-70% range match Metacritic's score pretty well (67%), and the IMDB audience scores for the individual episodes (5.9/10, 6.1/10) aren't far off either.
Others here argued that the limitations of this approach hardly count as a "deep dive". Fair enough. I labeled it that as it seemed a lot deeper than the other discussions I had seen so far, but there are definitely limitations here.
2. Possibly. Whether bots or humans, it seems they are from review bombers more interested in criticizing the idea of this show or Disney's approach to Star Wars in general. For sure, the star ratings without any written reviews must be far lower than the reviewed ratings. That's the only way to explain the huge discrepancy in that data set. Hard to say with total certainty since RT doesn't show us the star-only reviews so there is no data to directly extract.
3. Honestly I didn't see a lot of reviews that seemed like obvious bots or AI. Though I'm not sure how easy they'd be to spot.
UPDATE: I went ahead today and looked at the user reviews currently listed. I looked at another 79 user reviews. Numbers are a LOT lower than the snapshot three days ago when this thread first posted. Average of those posts are only 28%, pretty close to RT's current aggregate. Plenty of these negative reviews are pretty long and detailed, and seem human-written and not like copy/paste. For what it's worth, the reviews are overwhelmingly from men. 72 of the reviews had an obviously male name, only 1 was obviously female, and 6 were indeterminate.
Whatever is going on, the situation has evolved over that last few days. The user reviews are VERY different now compared to 3 days ago. What does this mean? Possibly, the early watchers were more excited for this show and more predisposed to like it. People who took their time before tuning in and only reviewed it recently (all these were posted on RT today) seem a lot more critical. At any rate, my original analysis should be seen as a snapshot of that time.
A deeper dive could look at these individual reviews and try to classify what the specific complaints were, does it seem like people arguing it is too woke, do they complain about canon violations, is it quality issues (dialogue, plot, set designs, etc). From a quick look, it seems like mostly quality issues.
Best of luck on your live show!
Idk I'm actually thoroughly enjoying the series and I'm in love with Master Sol. That scene when the Sith hovered down behind Osha was insanely fucking cool, loved how creepy it made him. Regardless, it's refreshing to see a new (old) era of Star Wars. I hope we see more High Republic stuff in the future
Thanks for the thoughtful dive into the reviews. I’m not surprised that the critic fresh rating is buoyed by ~6/10 reviews, just like I’m not surprised that there’s a wave of 1/10 audience scores without a written review. Haters gonna hate, and critics gonna say “it’s aight.”
I wonder if there’s some level of bias that offsets the difference between the critics who’ve seen two episodes and those that have seen four. If you’ve seen four, that means Disney has you an a list of “approved” critics and influencers, and there’s a fair shot they were also invited to a fancy premiere. Maybe the people who’ve seen four episodes are more inclined to be positive, enjoy Star Wars, and/or let the “wine and dine me” aspect of a premier subconsciously boost their score a bit.
In other words, maybe the people who were eligible to see four episodes are more likely to give a higher score. Not that they’re a bunch of shills or anything, but if you tend to be positive with Star Wars and have a platform, I’d guess you’re more likely to be on Disney’s list.
But it’s also very possible that the show gets better as more layers of the mystery are peeled back and revealed.
Totally agree, and thanks for bringing this up. The 'shill' accusation can get pretty heated, and there's no way to to tease that out of this limited set of data, so I didn't go into it though I was tempted to. It will be interesting to see how reviews change after the next two eps release -- do they go up, indicating the show really does get better? Or do they stay flat, indicating there is something of a shill effect?
I watched the first two Episodes and i thought they were pretty awful and frustrating. 🤷♂️ Knowing how much is simply done wrong in acolyte makes it very frustrating.
WHAT?! Lmfao holy shit dude i do NOT have time to post the entire script here.
How about just a few things?
Putting a jedi prisoner on a droid controlled minimal security space ship
A droid ship which has a human handprint scanner and seatbelts, you know those things droids need and use.
How about cringy bad fight choreography ripped literally (even leslye said she did this on purpose) ripped straight from the matrix?
How about a jedi saying “close your eyes, what do you see? Your eyes betray you, do not trust them”
And then 6 minutes later he says “no its impossible shes dead, i saw it with my own eyes”
And nobody in the show points out his obvious contradiction.
Dude shit like this happened every single minute in the show, its literally written by incompetent writers who dont even understand that every scene is supposed to progress the story forward. 😑
How about a fully burning fire in space? That a nitpick? “Attack me with everything you have….a Jedi never draws their weapon unless to kill…” horrible, clunky dialogue…that a nitpick? The examples listed by That Height a but a minute percentage of the sins of this absolutely godawful show.
Agree completely
weird die hard defenders are going to say ANY complaint you have is insufficient. While they can provide NOTHING AT ALL when i ask what’s good about it.
Some lie and say the fighting is good but anyone with eyes whos seen Star Wars would know the choreography for combat is God awful.
Way to dismiss an argument while providing nothing yourself. Waste me time matey
Whatever you say next I’ll just call nitpicking and you can see how fun of a debate it is.
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The dialogue is SO dumb. What assassin says "Attack me with all your might"? Then she says jedi only pull their lightsaber to kill...WRONG. Jedi pull their lightsabers for defense more often than not, for blocking blaster bolts and projectiles.
Then a 'jedi master' is killed by a charcuterie knife because she gets barely distracted? That was a Padawan level mistake. A real jedi master would have felt the 'assassins' arm contracting to throw the second charcuterie knife before it ever left her hand. This show is truly terrible, they dont even understand how the Force actually works. This series will bomb just like Lucasfilm's failed Willow series.
It's pretty well known that shills exist. It's been openly admitted that if they want access to screenings they have to continue to give positive reviews. It's a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" model.
Since review bombings exist, I wonder what your average audience score would be if you took random samples of written reviews instead of the 1st 45?
I watched the first two episodes with an open mind. I thought the set designs were as good or better than Andors and much better than Kenobis. The story had a lot of problems like how she woke up not strapped into the chair and how a blizzard doesn't leave snow on her. Also her evil twin escaped in a car but stayed in what looked like a large outpost instead of a sprawling city. How the main character found the poisoned Jedi before the others also seemed weird.
There is a huge variance between critics and audiences. I believe that there should be a federal investigation completed. This is a billion dollar industry and critics can sway audiences into watching. If there is any dishonesty it makes for a good fraud case. I honestly believe that critic are being pad for their fake critques
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How is not liking a show and showing actual criticism review bombing? How can people say something like that when the critic score was clearly altered and obviously critics were paid as well to give a positive review. Really shows how hypocritical and cynical media is. Watch me get downvoted for speaking the truth, both sides are a bunch of hypocrites.
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I really tried to ignore the noise and like this show but found the acting wooden, the dialogue shit, the effects mediocre and gaping logic everywhere.
Mando/andor this is not.
There's no way 90% of critics give this fresh, no way. Bought and paid for.
It's pretty bad.
Remember fresh is only 6/10. RT is godawful for this. In my opinion, anything under a 7/10 average is either trash or too niche for average popcorn-gobblers. Star Wars is too mainstream to be niche anymore. This shit is just trash and appeals to people overdosing on copium or the lunatics that unironically say "you go girl" or "slay queen."
>*I suspect it's because the early batch of reviewers had access to the first four episodes, while the later ones have only seen the first two episodes, like the rest of us. This implies that the series gets better over the next two episodes.*
This aged like fine milk.
There's always some statistically irrelevant, cult demographic of viewers who claim something that's obviously terrible as being good or having potential. It's so strange to see people who lack such baseline objectivity.
You cant even read reviews for The Acolyte anymore. Rotten Tomatoes is in full protection mode for their corpo pals at Disney. Ever since NBC Universal and Warner Bros purchased Rotten Tomatoes, its lost all credibility. These days its just a corpo shill site
"A bunch of shills rated it highly early on." This is the way!
At this point, it's almost common knowledge that studios handpick certain "critics" and show their content to them first. So they would be the ones who review it first. That way, when the first reviews come out, they can take the inflated numbers and run with it for days before actual critics start to review the movie/series. This is a dirty game Disney is playing. And Rotten Tomatoes helps them play it.
The only analysis anyone needs to do is go check the so called "critics" on Acolyte reviews. There are 132 publications there and more than %50 of them are basically NerdGirl587 or some variation of that. Fanboys/fangirls posing as critics.
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We are all the Republic.
So whats great about IMBD is it using a 10 point scale for ratings. We can assume if it is review bombed the ratings for the bombers are 1. Which checks out when we look at the numbers there are 6-7 times the number of 1's as any other rating. However if we remove the 1's, or hold them to 10% of the vote either rating still gives the show a 5.6 to 5.14 on IMBD which still makes it the worst Star Wars TV Show on Disney by far. With Boba and Obi getting low 7's. It's more than just a review bomb. It is likely not well received.
This may be an unpopular opinion.
Audiences reviews are currently at 13%-14% and they would be alot lower if RT tomatoes didn't delete negative reviews.
And it would also be alot worse, if there weren't bot accounts reviewing it positively. If you read some of the positive reviews it becomes so clear.
And don't even get me started with critics reviews. It is clear and has been known that companies pay critics(with money or access/early access, among other ways) for positive reviews. Similiar to the gaming industry.
Anyone who says they don't, doesn't know much about how the world works.
So i guess the force has found a way to balance things out: Disney pays critics and uses bots to boost the score; audience gives their honest opinions. Although many would say it's review bombing, done by bigots, racists and misogynists. Because these days you can't have a different opinion without being called at least one of those things.
The critics overall score is lying 20 critics disliked it, and 82 liked it, that's a 75% RT score not 85, did nobody notice they are lying about the score?
20/82x100 = 24.4, 100-24.4 = 75.6%
I don't think it's remotely outside the realm of possibility that critics are shills and a large % of Star Wars fans found Acolyte to be incredibly lacking.
Even the most diehard fans I know are avoiding talking about the show amongst our various friend groups. These are people that even watch the cartoons while in their 30's.
Just saw the first two with family. Unbelievably bad. Terrible writing and acting. Sol the only good character.
BTW - rotten tomatoes turned off my ability to rate this show. So the score is artificially high.
>Crazy disparity between critics and audience scores on RT. Why is this?
Critics have been out of touch for over a decade now
>I'm guessing there's a huge pile of half star ratings without reviews bringing this number down
Actually, ratings less than 1 star have zero effect on the average score. Rotten Tomatoes and other sites do this to "combat review bombing" yet there's no implemented method to combat the opposite of review bombing.
“I only went with the first 45”
That’s not how you sample. Select 45 at random. I read about the same number of reviews and found almost the opposite as you - the 5 star ratings were short sentences, almost all looking fake as they did not go into detail on why they liked it. The 0.5 and 1 star reviews, however, went on at length about how and why the show is so bad.
"There are a LOT of audience reviews, so I only went with the first 45 listed on RT", there lie your problem, the pool size should not have been the same when there is 100 times more audience reviews minimum.
The reviews are all bought and paid for. Disney has to get good reviewed so people watch it because they are hemorrhaging money left and right. Desperate times indeed
The acolyte is the epitome of dog shit low quality disney culture war loss due to poor writing bad acting and incessant pandering to people who hate star wars. You can't review it on rotten tomatoes.
Interesting point about the 2 v 4 episode reviews. Bodes well for the series.
I have heard this from people who have seen all four. I think a lot of the complaints from the first two will be addressed later on. Just not sure whether the unconvinced will stick around that long.
I hope so. Some of the haters claim the next episode or two will be the ones that ruin Star Wars forever. I doubt that.
I would like to say before talking about this, it is totally fine to like what you like, but hi I am one of the haters. It wasn't the story that was the issue but just the lack of logic in the script and what felt like a lack of budget put into the show, despite the 150 million dollar price tag the show ran. The cgi felt so cheap (but that's been true for every show that's not Andor and Mando season 1-2) and the writing had some massive issues (spoilers ahead for those who haven't watched): * >!Fire doesn't burn in space. !< * >!A protector of the galaxy and peace in general watches a force assassin assault people and does nothing until everyone are already on the ground with possible fatal injuries. !< * >!Said protector then just dies (knife kills in this one but lightsaber doesn't in Kenobi or Ahsoka lol). !< * >!The twin gets framed for other twins actions thing is so played out but how did she even get arrested? Eye witness account from one guy is so accurate from that distance that they are able to make the proper arrest out of billions of people living in that system.!< * >!She was also on the other side of the star system with multiple people knowing where she is when the murder happened and yet still she is arrested from one mans insanely accurate testimony. !< * >!She then gets arrested and instead of the jedi arresting her making sure the presumed JEDI KILLER is taken in personally he puts her on a prisoner transport with 1 guard. Didn't see that prison break coming.!< * >!The 2 jedi are talking about going down to the planet to recover the remaining prisoner. This is strange because they already recovered the escape pod meaning that they would have had to bring the prisoner all the way back to Coruscant to then talk about going all the way back to the planet to get the remainders. This talk should have just been on a ship orbiting the planet.!< * >! "Steel or laser are no threat to them", She JUST killed one with a blade.!< * >!Also the lightsaber thing at the end is goofy because no Sith would do that. She already knows this guy, the only thing he would be doing this for is to show the audience he's a Sith. Also even if she didn't know this guy, would a smart Sith just reveal to the person they hired that they are a force user? Just as bad as Maul doing the same thing at the end of Solo (a movie I liked btw). She knows he's a Sith, the audience knows Maul and if they dont they can surmise what he is by the cloak and lightsaber looking hilt in his hand. It's just fanservice done poorly.!< God I cant wait for Andor season 2 to give me faith in Star Wars again.
Fire has been burning in space throughout the Star Wars shows and movies going back to the OT.
How do you feel about the rest of the points?
I think the "steel and laser are no threat" is more of a metaphor. We see plenty die by laser in Order 66. You can kill an individual Jedi by any means, but he was talking about killing the dream. This is the beginning of the process of the Jedi's downfall.
Sure I know that’s what they were going for, but the whole pseudo-philosophical thing isn’t really selling me on it. What about the other points the other commenter made?
Not like that. Explosions maybe, but thats egregious. And now we find that stone also burns. And Force users.... excuse me, Thread users who can do force fields cant put it out for some reason. t's getting old.
The Executor's bridge was in flames as it went towards the Death Star. Do all these nitpicky things actually affect the story being told?
Yes they fucking do! Also how are the jedi the bad guys and why does this bitch have such a fucking grudge against them when she's the one who killed her entire order and almost her sister by burning the book? like the plot is so injected with agenda it's not even funny. lesbians can produce children from the force, sorry, the thread (not cannon in any fucking way never has been, anakin is the chosen one created by the force to brings balance to it after the major upheaval in power after sideus came to be.) The force isnt a thread, the power of one the power of two the power of many makes no fucking sense whatsoever, and the writing is just lazy and was written to make the writers feel good and not in way way written for the audience that has loved this franchise since its inception
The Jedi don't necessarily come across as the bad guys. We don't know the full story of what happened. Also, someone creating these twins doesn't make Anakin not the Chosen one. So far, we haven't seen the Jedi do anything bad, while the witches are the ones that wanted to kill the Jedi, though calmer heads won out, at least until whatever happened during the fire.
In the eyes of the girl who is literally just finding them and asking them to attack her with full strength after no previous conversation or dialogue? Seems like to me she has proclaimed in her perspective the jedi are her enemy, from brainwashing from the parents and coven and even after the fire and in the first episode when she basically challenges carrie ann to a duel with no prior context to them having met before? She's literally just finding them and challenging them to fights with no precedent or reason other than she throwing a lifelong tantrum that her sister didn't want to be a witch. Its STUPID fucking writing and I can't latch on to any of it.
> Also how are the jedi the bad guys and why does this bitch have such a fucking grudge against them when she's the one who killed her entire order and almost her sister by burning the book? You’ve so nearly cottoned on to the literary device being used here. > like the plot is so injected with agenda it's not even funny. lesbians can produce children from the force… A level of discourse not even worth a response.
"Can you lock that down R2?" or something like that from the Death Star attack in Episode IV, so yep.
Seconded on most. I thought this was headed in the right the direction, but, it’s getting worse. It’s all over the place writing wise, the acting is a little rough in parts as well. That said, the original SW has some rough acting too, but it got better. I’ve seen worse CGI, this felt campy at times. The blending of so many different concepts is the issue for me. Light side, dark side and the force. Trying to weave other concepts with those core systems is not going smoothly. It’s like the show runners and writers are on a different page than the lore, or they don’t care about it or are they doing a poor job of adapting it. I’ll stick with it but this no where near the other SW shows in terms of quality and continuity.
Mae didn't take Indara's light saber. Unbelievable in every way. Even if she will not use it, she would want to own it or present it to her Master. Just so stupid.
nobody cares about andor either
This aged like milk
How so?
Episode 3 came out.
And it didn't ruin Star Wars forever. Apparently, that was already done by the PT, the ST, OWK, TBoBF, and Ahsoka.
Correct. Star Wars was already terminal when this show started.
What does any of those abbreviations mean
I would think a Star Wars fan would be able to figure it out. Prequel Trilogy, Sequel Trilogy, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, and Ahsoka.
A star wars fan would know the names, An obsessive nerd would know the abbreviations of them all.
Does it even matter any more. The only one I'm using on Disney is ROFL.
Do you still doubt it?
I enjoyed it, a friend of mine enjoyed it, and most of the reaction channels I watch have enjoyed it. I think a lot of people are projecting things that aren't there, or have not yet been made clear. By the way people were talking, I thought it was gonna be some big gay sex orgy. People are saying it contradicts or minimizes Anakin's creation, but I don't believe they are the same thing.
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People hate TROS as well and it has an 86% score. This show has been review bombed by a bunch of haters so they can point to the low score as justification. Cringe? Are you embarrassed easily?
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The critics reviews don't lie? The critics review for The Acolyte are 84%, so I guess it is pretty good. The reaction channels I've watched have mostly enjoyed it, the exception being Kristian Harloff, but he doesn't hate it.
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tight song
How are you feeling after episode 3? LOL
Yeah good thanks. Really enjoyed it. The High Republic has shown different interpretations of the force before, I really dig that kind of worldbuilding. You should try the comics, there’s a whole story arc on Jehda where different force “religions” clash and mingle in different ways. I love that kind of thing. Looking forward to next week!
Well, objective reviewers seem to unanimously agree it's one of if not the worst star wars episodes Disney has released to date.
Thanks for letting me know, but I’m ok with forming my own opinion.
No worries- you enjoy it (while it lasts)!
he's out of his mind, or just flat out lying
lol, you are correct.
Or they don’t have standards or demand quality in their writing and world building.
Shill much, or are you genuinely mentally challenged? If you are really deranged that can be forgiven, I guess.
Am I more or less deranged than someone calling me mentally challenged in reply to a 5 day old post expressing simple enjoyment of a story about space wizards and witches? Whatever the answer, I forgive you as well 🙏
how are people reviewing it ? Do you mean on rotten tomatoes ? Because it doesn't have a review section there.
Sure, I prefer the EU over the OT’s. Yet what we got in episode 3 is so thread bare, it hardly counts as an interpretation. Calling it a “thread” while barely scratching the culture, history, or beliefs of another witch force cult is another example of how little thought goes into these products. Ep 7, 8, 9 also suffered from little planning so the M.O. is established.
George Lucas decided Obi-Wan’s home planet was called Stewjon while on stage being interviewed by John Stewart. Very often individual things created in Star Wars don’t have much thought put into them, and tbh we don’t even really know much yet, they were only introduced literally last night in a 40 minute episode. So I’d wait a little longer before casting judgement.
No antagonism is intended in my response or negative vibes. Thank you for engaging with me. I wouldn’t consider Lucas a good writer. He’s a good businessman. At best, he can be considered an idea guy where many of his ideas have to be challenged. The Prequels proved this. I mean sure, what you are saying could be true. Yet given the track record of writing blunders in their past shows, the lack of attention to detail that is very evident, I highly doubt we will get anything of substance even if they do go into the back story of this coven. What about their past shows or track record makes you believe we will get a satisfactory exploration of this thread witch cult in this show?
Simply that, as you say, what I’m saying could be true. I choose to be optimistic about this cool story of cool witches in a fictional world of space wizards. There’s some rough edges for sure, the cinematography is flat, the music hasn’t done much for me so far etc. but the fundamentals of the story are extremely solid for me. In Leslye Headland you have a showrunner who seems to have more of a deep love and understanding of Star Wars (and apparently the EU) than almost anyone working for Lucasfilm after Filoni. It honestly baffles me that people don’t see that, and I think she’s gonna deliver the goods. As for attention to detail for a particular race or clique or tribe or whatever faction in Star Wars, it’s always ranged from “pulled out someone’s arse for a deadline” to Ferrix, the realest place in Star Wars. So honestly I’d be fine if we didn’t get much more outside of the clearly incoming other views of that night in Brendok. They’re a cool coven of space witches with a charismatic and wise leader. That’s fine with me.
Mental illness, period.
Your standards for good entertainment is the bottom of the barrel lmao. This show is a complete waste of money, I feel sorry for the investors.
he feels his left nut
Episode 3 was an unmitigated disaster
U people are absolutely delusional
this bodes nothing, we are jsut assuming. all we can do is wait and see. then judge. anything else is pointless
>access to the first four episodes I think that once all the episodes have premiered, it will become more clear that this series is more like a ~4-5 hour thriller movie split into 8 parts. So far it doesn't seem narratively structured like The Mandalorian (episodic) or Andor (multi-episode distinct arcs).
Agreed, the series seems very focused on one main plot arc. Haven't heard anything specific, but I'm guessing this will be a limited series with no intent on a second season.
I kinda agree but I also remember that i read somewhere that the showrunner (i think) said, that they are not doing a 4 hour movie or it wouldn‘t work as a movie
Maybe they should have released everything
More like they never should have made it :)
It is worth noting that the review bombing actually began prior to the launch as well. Before any non-reviewer had seen the show.
Yeah, RT needs to get their crap together. There's no reason to allow audience reviews before it's even released. Probably shouldn't allow star-only ratings either; insist on at least a five word review or something like that. Would screen out the lazier review bombers anyways.
I think they should do what Letterbox does. Anyone can review a movie and give it a rating. But on the movie they track visually everyone's rating and graft them on a five-star chart. They also track metrics for each individual as well.
I dont think you know how RT works because they locked reviews and deleted the prior to launch audience reviews(happens all the time) And filtering just Star reviews is also dumb, as bots would just put one word reviews
Yep, you can no longer review the series. Now that I've actually seen it, I wanted to add my two cents, but it's going to stay artificially locked I suppose.
but then they can't allow critic review before the movie is released either. Opinions should only benefit or bring down the show, once everyone can see it. otherwise you just invite the shill reviewers
Opposed to allowing biased echochamber critics to give fake reviews? The script and dialogue is absolutely terrible, and that's ignoring the identity politics used for the entirety of the cast and storyline. No one and I mean no one with any credibility whatsoever thinks the Acolyte is a good show or well written.
As well as the positive review bombing by corpo shill critics. Critc review bombing also can be in the positive direction for the PAID critics who will do or say anything to get on Mickeys good side.The only difference between the positive and negative review bombs are that the negative review bombs arent paid for by the corpos, they are just angry fanatical fans.
Except the critics had actually seen the show before they reviewed the show. Also... Even if people were paid to upvote a TV show... That's nowhere near as bad as hundreds of thousands of people trying to get a show cancelled before it even launches because they are racist.
LMAO, the old, played out racism card. Thats just a coping mechanism for people who cant handle the truth that their show actually sucks because it has terrible dialogue, bad storytelling and is not consistent with the dozens of hours of live Star Wars movies/shows that preceded it. The showrunner clearly does not respect the lore, does not respect legacy fans and are simply bad writers. The dialogue is so cringe.. What assassin says "Attack me with all your might" before they engage a target?? So dumb. In truth, the only ACTUAL racist remarks that I've heard came from Amandla Stenberg's interview on the Daily Show.
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lol you cooked him so hard he raged and broke TOS😂
Where is your evidence of this? Claiming crap like this, is just ammo for the racists to be honest. I'm a proud liberal Brooklynite & the show is truly terrible.
Is that actually, seriously, 100% what you think is really happening here, or is that a narrative?
Nobody ever acknowledges the review bombing often goes both ways though. I remember She-Hulk had more 10 star ratings than 1 star ratings on IMDB before it was released.
But that didn't happen in this case so why talk about it? As a hypothetical?
I didn’t see the scores beforehand so have no idea if it happened or not. Realistically this show isn’t a 1/5 or 5/5 like the majority of the reviews. It’s not a 91% critic score either considering a lot of those “fresh reviews” call it average. Rotten tomatoes scoring is useless.
Because it's pre release review bombing. Whether positive or negative, it pertains to how general audiences manipulate shows for reasons outside genuine quality
It literally did happen in this case. There were a huge number of instant 5 star reviews from new accounts.
Reviewers reviewing after they had seen the show is not "Positive Review Bombing." Thats just review bombing Audiences who have not seen the show yet review bombing because youtubers are mad about "DEI" is review bombing.
I watched the trailer. I legit didn't recognise it as a Star Wars series until the first lightsabers were turned on. I thought it was some medieval alien matrix wannabe show. The trailer alone let's you know how terrible the show was going to be.
Are you talking about the trailer with the thumbnail of a jedi with a lightsaber on, or the trailer that opens with jedi meditating on coruscant? Cause either way I think this might be a skill issue on your part.
I've never liked the way rotten tomatoes scores things. Instead of showing the average score for critic reviews, it instead shows the percentage of critics that scored it higher than a certain number. But the audience is even worse. Critics are forced to leave a written review, but the audience can just put down a rating out of 5 stars and they don't even need to have watched it. It is so flawed that it's insane anybody is taking this seriously.
Metacritic has it at a 67. I think that's more accurate. Source: https://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-acolyte/ Looking at the rest of the shows though; it's not really super reflective on the quality. One of the issues I have with TV show reviews/ratings is people review/rate the show based on the first 2-4 episodes. While those obviously should be really good, it's not always reflective of the show as a whole. Andor was a good example of this. It won people over big-time starting with Episode 6 (not me though, I was bought in from Episode 1). The show elevated to another level. * The Mandalorian Season 1: 70 * The Mandalorian Season 2: 78 * The Book Of Boba Fett: 59 * Obi-Wan Kenobi: 73 * Andor: 74 * The Mandalorian Season 3: 70 * Ahsoka: 68
The obi wan rating is throwing me for a loop here. Everything else looks about right but that would be my lowest score by far.
Lower than Boba? A show where two episodes aren't even narratively supposed to be in it?
Of stories that didn't need to be told, Boba is less egregious than Kenobi.
Obi-wan and boba fett were both absolutely atrocious.
Metacritic and rotten tomatoes are both dog shit ratings, metacritic is better but.. IMDb has insanely accurate reviews for everything but comedy, horror, remakes and anime. 90% of comedies score under an 8 and most of those below a 7.5 or 7. Ive parsed the reviews, it's obviously because people watch comedy's who don't like comedy. Weird, but whatever. Same deal for horror genre. Remake reviews being off doesn't need explaining, and anime reviews are off cause your average anime enjoyer appears to suffer from some kind of brain disorder or damage(genuinely). Or maybe they're just kids lol, IDK.
Yeah IMDb reviews are usually some of the most accurate in my experience except for what you mentioned. Although funnily enough comedy shows usually score quite high while comedy films do not. For acolyte I think there's definitely some review bombing going on though because there's no way a 4.5 is fair. That's not just a bad rating that's like a "worse TV show you've ever seen" rating. I've literally never watched a TV show with an IMDb rating lower than 7 and I've seen plenty of shows worse than acolyte. It currently has a worse rating than the animated ewok show from the 80s. Based on what we've seen so far I'd say it deserves somewhere between 7-7.5.
You know, come to think of it you're right, comedy shows do score much more accurately.. That's strange. Honestly the 4.5 was going to put me off watching it entirely(there's a reason I look at ratings, I'm not looking to waste my precious time) but something seemed off to me. Like you said, 4.5 would be a monumental failure and I just thought about some of Disneys latest Star Wars stuff. The Bad Batch, Andor, The Mandalorian.. like... How could they go from stuff like that to a 4.5 show, how could something like that get out of the door? Yea Ashoka wasn't great, but it was at least watchable. I haven't seen it yet, but I do intend on giving it a go cause something isn't right. I'm thinking it's one of those things that struck a certain political nerve, maybe combo'd with a wrong place wrong time sort of deal that got it burned down.
Lol, the IMDB ratings are far more accurate than Rotten Tomatoes (owned by NBC Universal and Warner Bros) or Metacritic (Owned by Paramount). IMO the IMDb ratings are closest to accurate over all other review sites
Except if you remove the 1's from IMBD rating it still only gets a 5.6 and if you follow the trend and assume a the ridiculous number of 1's are review bombing it gets a 4.46. If you hold 1's to an even dispersion being 10% of reviews. it scores 5.14. No matter how you look at it, it makes it the worst Star Wars tv show to date. Even when we assume a prolific of bombed data and remove it.
Those numbers seem off
How the hell is Andor not rated over 9000?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12262202/ 4.4 on IMDB IMDB is more accurate than metacritic for shows.
Lol, yeah, another review site owned by the entertainment corpos at Paramount...no thanks..Ever since Rotten Tomatoes was purchased by NBC Universal and Warner Bros, its lost all credibility
It has auto balancing feature though. For every person who gives "obligatory" negative review there is one that does the opposite. It is pointless trying to invent ways to stop it. There is a natural balancing mechanism. And I am quite sure that if you try to eliminate it, the only reason for that is if you actually are trying to have control over scores which as we witnessed with RT and IMDB has definitely happened.
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Most critics don't watch every movie they review either. Disney gives them reviews to post in the money transactions
>If we ignore RT's algorithms and only look at the average of critic reviews, we get a score of 67%. If we look at the average of audience scores that actually have written out reviews, we get 63%. This say it all. I think social media algorithms are the Sith's greatist ccomplishment. Any more I now jsut icnore all movie reviews. I now have my own rating system. So currently Ashoka has a 10 and the Acolate is at a 2. 10 and 2 being the number of times I watched both shows, I am sure the Acolate will have a higher score in time.
Probably for the best that you stay FAR FAR away from any serious scoring.
I think this makes a lot of sense of the IMDb scores as well. The overall rating (where review bombers are most likely to go), the rating is 4.5, but the individual episode scores are around the 6 star mark. So it's looking like this show is mostly in that 6-ish, slightly above average range. Though with some of the reactions I'm seeing, it's possible it's a love it or hate it situation that averages out to slightly above average.
Yeah, I think for a lot of people it's love it or hate it, based on the spread. But for me personally, 65% percent feels about right. Not as strong as I'd hoped, but definitely has potential in what it's setting up.
I rate it slightly higher at the 70% mark, but I'm not mad about a 65% either.
"Deep Dive" > Calculations are based on 45 randomly chosen audience scores I really don't see how those numbers could indicate anything one way or another.
It’s called a ‘representative sample’. Pretty standard.
They weren't randomly chosen, OP said they "picked the first 45". So if RT puts more positive reviews up front, then it's not representative of anything execpt some bias somewhere. I just looked at the first 10 (it's at 14% now) and they were just chronological and mostly positive (likely bc now with 4 horrible eps in, less people are watching it and there's potential for people that want to help it to review it positively. The recent reviews are pretty generically written which is sus). But that (the first 10 I just looked at) isn't a fair representation either. If OP randomly picked 45 sure thatd be something. But also a sample of 45 out of 10,000+ isn't very representative.
It seems like you cannot get an actually good rating from the services that were supposed to offer these things to consumers. Like so many services that were once great, they have become subpar and less reliable. As for the actual show, speaking specifically of the first two episodes, there is a level of detail that feels missed when it comes to actions by actors/actresses as well as a logic check to how scenes play out. For example, we see many "jedi" using the force on doors that were typically automatic in the movies. I.E. master Vernestras' action as she enters the youngling room where she speaks with Master Sol. While small, it is those key details that matter to fans and should also matter to those seeking to portray an established universe. Another such example of something that doesn't quite track is Knight Yord's Padawan acting more like a logical knight than her master. A small detail, but one that matters. Personally, I'm hoping that, in the process of story-telling, these discrepancies are addressed and resolved as being intentional because this was a time when Padawans are overly trying to be the grown-up and seemingly stoic masters they wish to emulate and that the doors weren't automatic because they wanted each of the jedi to practice their force-manipulation regularly. But I dont think that's the case. I suspect this is why it is so important to have a logic checker on film sites to ensure true adherence to long established worlds and lore. Hopefully reviewers also fix their bad algorithms too.
Hey a couple of quick questions - doing some research for a segment on our (Jedi Enclave) live show on wed and doing some background research on this because the RT situation seems to be obviously manipulated. 1. Do you have any formal expertise in statistics, etc? 2. Is it possible that the low reviews without comments are bots? 3. I’ve read in a couple of places that some of the comments seem to read like AI generated, using the same basic language and terms. Was that your experience or no?
1. Yes, worked a decade as an engineer in semiconductor R&D. I will say there were limitations with this data set, like not being able to put numbers to all critic reviews, and not being able to pull all the user review numbers since that data is spread out on many pages and wasn't easily to extract. Which is why I only went with the first 45 reviews. There are assumptions in this sampling, mainly that the first 45 reviews listed are representative of them all. Yes random sampling would've been better and more data would've been better. But I was looking for an explanation for the huge difference in scores, and I don't think you necessarily need a large sample size or control every possible variable to get a sense of that. And I did scroll through a lot of the later reviews quickly to see if there were obvious differences in early reviews, and I didn't see any. I'm heartened that my adjusted scores in the 60%-70% range match Metacritic's score pretty well (67%), and the IMDB audience scores for the individual episodes (5.9/10, 6.1/10) aren't far off either. Others here argued that the limitations of this approach hardly count as a "deep dive". Fair enough. I labeled it that as it seemed a lot deeper than the other discussions I had seen so far, but there are definitely limitations here. 2. Possibly. Whether bots or humans, it seems they are from review bombers more interested in criticizing the idea of this show or Disney's approach to Star Wars in general. For sure, the star ratings without any written reviews must be far lower than the reviewed ratings. That's the only way to explain the huge discrepancy in that data set. Hard to say with total certainty since RT doesn't show us the star-only reviews so there is no data to directly extract. 3. Honestly I didn't see a lot of reviews that seemed like obvious bots or AI. Though I'm not sure how easy they'd be to spot. UPDATE: I went ahead today and looked at the user reviews currently listed. I looked at another 79 user reviews. Numbers are a LOT lower than the snapshot three days ago when this thread first posted. Average of those posts are only 28%, pretty close to RT's current aggregate. Plenty of these negative reviews are pretty long and detailed, and seem human-written and not like copy/paste. For what it's worth, the reviews are overwhelmingly from men. 72 of the reviews had an obviously male name, only 1 was obviously female, and 6 were indeterminate. Whatever is going on, the situation has evolved over that last few days. The user reviews are VERY different now compared to 3 days ago. What does this mean? Possibly, the early watchers were more excited for this show and more predisposed to like it. People who took their time before tuning in and only reviewed it recently (all these were posted on RT today) seem a lot more critical. At any rate, my original analysis should be seen as a snapshot of that time. A deeper dive could look at these individual reviews and try to classify what the specific complaints were, does it seem like people arguing it is too woke, do they complain about canon violations, is it quality issues (dialogue, plot, set designs, etc). From a quick look, it seems like mostly quality issues. Best of luck on your live show!
You did a great job, honestly. It doesn't change the fact that this series is so bad....
Idk I'm actually thoroughly enjoying the series and I'm in love with Master Sol. That scene when the Sith hovered down behind Osha was insanely fucking cool, loved how creepy it made him. Regardless, it's refreshing to see a new (old) era of Star Wars. I hope we see more High Republic stuff in the future
Thanks for the thoughtful dive into the reviews. I’m not surprised that the critic fresh rating is buoyed by ~6/10 reviews, just like I’m not surprised that there’s a wave of 1/10 audience scores without a written review. Haters gonna hate, and critics gonna say “it’s aight.” I wonder if there’s some level of bias that offsets the difference between the critics who’ve seen two episodes and those that have seen four. If you’ve seen four, that means Disney has you an a list of “approved” critics and influencers, and there’s a fair shot they were also invited to a fancy premiere. Maybe the people who’ve seen four episodes are more inclined to be positive, enjoy Star Wars, and/or let the “wine and dine me” aspect of a premier subconsciously boost their score a bit. In other words, maybe the people who were eligible to see four episodes are more likely to give a higher score. Not that they’re a bunch of shills or anything, but if you tend to be positive with Star Wars and have a platform, I’d guess you’re more likely to be on Disney’s list. But it’s also very possible that the show gets better as more layers of the mystery are peeled back and revealed.
Totally agree, and thanks for bringing this up. The 'shill' accusation can get pretty heated, and there's no way to to tease that out of this limited set of data, so I didn't go into it though I was tempted to. It will be interesting to see how reviews change after the next two eps release -- do they go up, indicating the show really does get better? Or do they stay flat, indicating there is something of a shill effect?
Or do they go even lower? What happens in episode three will throw off most fans.
I wouldn’t call 45 scores a ‘deep dive’ of anything
Why do y'all care about reviews so much? If you like the show watch it!
I watched the first two Episodes and i thought they were pretty awful and frustrating. 🤷♂️ Knowing how much is simply done wrong in acolyte makes it very frustrating.
What was awful and done wrong?
WHAT?! Lmfao holy shit dude i do NOT have time to post the entire script here. How about just a few things? Putting a jedi prisoner on a droid controlled minimal security space ship A droid ship which has a human handprint scanner and seatbelts, you know those things droids need and use. How about cringy bad fight choreography ripped literally (even leslye said she did this on purpose) ripped straight from the matrix? How about a jedi saying “close your eyes, what do you see? Your eyes betray you, do not trust them” And then 6 minutes later he says “no its impossible shes dead, i saw it with my own eyes” And nobody in the show points out his obvious contradiction. Dude shit like this happened every single minute in the show, its literally written by incompetent writers who dont even understand that every scene is supposed to progress the story forward. 😑
So bunch of nitpicking, I see
How about a fully burning fire in space? That a nitpick? “Attack me with everything you have….a Jedi never draws their weapon unless to kill…” horrible, clunky dialogue…that a nitpick? The examples listed by That Height a but a minute percentage of the sins of this absolutely godawful show.
yea its a nitpick, no one actually gives a shit about your points
What a valid argument. Why would we waste our time on an app about sharing opinions then mate? What are you even doing in this conversation?
yea its a nitpick, no one actually gives a shit about your points
So Child arguments got it. Way to be mature and clearly represent your point. 😂
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You're having a meltdown.
No one cares about your illogical simping for a bad show. Hence its trash score
Agree completely weird die hard defenders are going to say ANY complaint you have is insufficient. While they can provide NOTHING AT ALL when i ask what’s good about it. Some lie and say the fighting is good but anyone with eyes whos seen Star Wars would know the choreography for combat is God awful.
Way to dismiss an argument while providing nothing yourself. Waste me time matey Whatever you say next I’ll just call nitpicking and you can see how fun of a debate it is.
They were asked a question and then answered it? Wtf
Wouldn't file bunch of arbitrary stuff under "awful and wrong"
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"Close your eyes, they mislead" later that episode "escapes from jedi by spinning up dust so they can't use their eyes"
Mhmm lol
The dialogue is SO dumb. What assassin says "Attack me with all your might"? Then she says jedi only pull their lightsaber to kill...WRONG. Jedi pull their lightsabers for defense more often than not, for blocking blaster bolts and projectiles. Then a 'jedi master' is killed by a charcuterie knife because she gets barely distracted? That was a Padawan level mistake. A real jedi master would have felt the 'assassins' arm contracting to throw the second charcuterie knife before it ever left her hand. This show is truly terrible, they dont even understand how the Force actually works. This series will bomb just like Lucasfilm's failed Willow series.
What blasters are you talking bout? It's High Republic.
Yeah Rotten Tomatoes scores are a bit silly. If 95/100 critics gave a 6/10 score (and the other 5 gave 4/10) then the RT rating would be 95%
So if you go in understanding what RT actually is, you know that’s a good score. It’s one metric of many.
It's pretty well known that shills exist. It's been openly admitted that if they want access to screenings they have to continue to give positive reviews. It's a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" model. Since review bombings exist, I wonder what your average audience score would be if you took random samples of written reviews instead of the 1st 45? I watched the first two episodes with an open mind. I thought the set designs were as good or better than Andors and much better than Kenobis. The story had a lot of problems like how she woke up not strapped into the chair and how a blizzard doesn't leave snow on her. Also her evil twin escaped in a car but stayed in what looked like a large outpost instead of a sprawling city. How the main character found the poisoned Jedi before the others also seemed weird.
There is a huge variance between critics and audiences. I believe that there should be a federal investigation completed. This is a billion dollar industry and critics can sway audiences into watching. If there is any dishonesty it makes for a good fraud case. I honestly believe that critic are being pad for their fake critques
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How is not liking a show and showing actual criticism review bombing? How can people say something like that when the critic score was clearly altered and obviously critics were paid as well to give a positive review. Really shows how hypocritical and cynical media is. Watch me get downvoted for speaking the truth, both sides are a bunch of hypocrites.
lol wondering the same thing.
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I really tried to ignore the noise and like this show but found the acting wooden, the dialogue shit, the effects mediocre and gaping logic everywhere. Mando/andor this is not. There's no way 90% of critics give this fresh, no way. Bought and paid for. It's pretty bad.
Remember fresh is only 6/10. RT is godawful for this. In my opinion, anything under a 7/10 average is either trash or too niche for average popcorn-gobblers. Star Wars is too mainstream to be niche anymore. This shit is just trash and appeals to people overdosing on copium or the lunatics that unironically say "you go girl" or "slay queen."
It’s worse, it’s down to 22%. I don’t think the decline is done yet.
>*I suspect it's because the early batch of reviewers had access to the first four episodes, while the later ones have only seen the first two episodes, like the rest of us. This implies that the series gets better over the next two episodes.* This aged like fine milk. There's always some statistically irrelevant, cult demographic of viewers who claim something that's obviously terrible as being good or having potential. It's so strange to see people who lack such baseline objectivity.
You cant even read reviews for The Acolyte anymore. Rotten Tomatoes is in full protection mode for their corpo pals at Disney. Ever since NBC Universal and Warner Bros purchased Rotten Tomatoes, its lost all credibility. These days its just a corpo shill site
Acolyte is down to 20% now bruh. Its a dumpster fire.
Down to 18%
Am I the only one noticing the twins are not identical as children, then somehow are as 16 year olds?
Dropped down to 17%, it\`s a beautiful sight
"A bunch of shills rated it highly early on." This is the way! At this point, it's almost common knowledge that studios handpick certain "critics" and show their content to them first. So they would be the ones who review it first. That way, when the first reviews come out, they can take the inflated numbers and run with it for days before actual critics start to review the movie/series. This is a dirty game Disney is playing. And Rotten Tomatoes helps them play it. The only analysis anyone needs to do is go check the so called "critics" on Acolyte reviews. There are 132 publications there and more than %50 of them are basically NerdGirl587 or some variation of that. Fanboys/fangirls posing as critics.
Here's my review... cringe.
cope
1. The show sucks. 2. Deep dive complete
Boba fett was the last best series there's not going to be another, not with all the things that are going on now.
Dude….the show is just bad lol. It’s really that simple
how did you get any audience ratings for Acolyte when there is no review section any nobody can rate it ?
I just pulled them up under Audience Reviews on RT. They are still taking reviews, there are some from today listed.
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A dog shit cake is a dog shit cake. No matter what the decorators do to sell it.
So whats great about IMBD is it using a 10 point scale for ratings. We can assume if it is review bombed the ratings for the bombers are 1. Which checks out when we look at the numbers there are 6-7 times the number of 1's as any other rating. However if we remove the 1's, or hold them to 10% of the vote either rating still gives the show a 5.6 to 5.14 on IMBD which still makes it the worst Star Wars TV Show on Disney by far. With Boba and Obi getting low 7's. It's more than just a review bomb. It is likely not well received.
This may be an unpopular opinion. Audiences reviews are currently at 13%-14% and they would be alot lower if RT tomatoes didn't delete negative reviews. And it would also be alot worse, if there weren't bot accounts reviewing it positively. If you read some of the positive reviews it becomes so clear. And don't even get me started with critics reviews. It is clear and has been known that companies pay critics(with money or access/early access, among other ways) for positive reviews. Similiar to the gaming industry. Anyone who says they don't, doesn't know much about how the world works. So i guess the force has found a way to balance things out: Disney pays critics and uses bots to boost the score; audience gives their honest opinions. Although many would say it's review bombing, done by bigots, racists and misogynists. Because these days you can't have a different opinion without being called at least one of those things.
The critics overall score is lying 20 critics disliked it, and 82 liked it, that's a 75% RT score not 85, did nobody notice they are lying about the score? 20/82x100 = 24.4, 100-24.4 = 75.6%
I don't think it's remotely outside the realm of possibility that critics are shills and a large % of Star Wars fans found Acolyte to be incredibly lacking. Even the most diehard fans I know are avoiding talking about the show amongst our various friend groups. These are people that even watch the cartoons while in their 30's.
Just saw the first two with family. Unbelievably bad. Terrible writing and acting. Sol the only good character. BTW - rotten tomatoes turned off my ability to rate this show. So the score is artificially high.
The show is boring AF. Audience reviews seem accurate to me.
>Crazy disparity between critics and audience scores on RT. Why is this? Critics have been out of touch for over a decade now >I'm guessing there's a huge pile of half star ratings without reviews bringing this number down Actually, ratings less than 1 star have zero effect on the average score. Rotten Tomatoes and other sites do this to "combat review bombing" yet there's no implemented method to combat the opposite of review bombing.
RT? pay to play and that's how
The first episode was a series of exposition dumps surrounded by plot holes. It deserves worse than 26%.
“I only went with the first 45” That’s not how you sample. Select 45 at random. I read about the same number of reviews and found almost the opposite as you - the 5 star ratings were short sentences, almost all looking fake as they did not go into detail on why they liked it. The 0.5 and 1 star reviews, however, went on at length about how and why the show is so bad.
"There are a LOT of audience reviews, so I only went with the first 45 listed on RT", there lie your problem, the pool size should not have been the same when there is 100 times more audience reviews minimum.
The reviews are all bought and paid for. Disney has to get good reviewed so people watch it because they are hemorrhaging money left and right. Desperate times indeed
Yeah the show is pretty horrible ngl
Show is straight garbage
The acolyte is the epitome of dog shit low quality disney culture war loss due to poor writing bad acting and incessant pandering to people who hate star wars. You can't review it on rotten tomatoes.