Can’t do it, this place only has unitanks. I recently installed a 30bbl we got off auction but my cellar was built by an amateur. 3 30bbl uni, 1 actual 15bbl uni(current tank) 4 14bbl uni (they started with a 7bbl system, these are the old double tanks) 1 30bbl brite.
You can still biofine/nalco in a Uni. Once the beer is crashed, do another dump, then hook CO2 up to the bottom, depressurize, start to bubble CO2 from the bottom, open your port at the top and dump the appropriate amount of your fining agent in the top. Then throttle back how much you’re degassing so the tank slowly builds pressure and bubble for 2 - 3 hours.
Dump again the next day before you condition in the tank.
Our west coast IPA is crystal clear and it receives a hefty WP addition and DH. We use Cali.
Hey Teddy, current process is similar but biofine/nalco is shot into the racking post cone/arm dump @ 30-32f @ 100ml per barrel and bubbled. After a hearty bubble we Zahm and then carb with a rotometer to 2.5, then let rest. I have a hop dipped juicy ipa that is crystal clear with this method, same yeast.
This is a recent development, the real bitch about this particular beer is that we also did a gelatin injection inline into another empty unitank and still no clarity except for warming a sample to room temp.
I’d try giving it a day to rest before carbonating.
Ya, I know of a few breweries that are currently struggling with clarity. Could be higher protein levels in base malt.
Hopefully you get it sorted!
Yeah it's been happening to a lot of people, and for a while now. We started seeing a big jump in haze after a bad crop year a few years ago (I don't remember which year specifically) and it has been an uphill battle since
Two things:
(1) Does your 100ml/bbl number come from product literature or from testing? If this has changed recently you should test your fining regimen.
Mix up a 1% solution of your fining agent (say, 1ml fining to 99ml distilled water.) each ml soln = 0.01ml fining. Get some classes with vaguely conical bottoms and run a test.
100ml/bbl is roughly 0.43ml in a half liter. With the above soln that would be 43ml soln in a 500ml sample. If I were you I would start there and go a little high and a little low. I would do half liter samples with 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46ml soln.
Mix up each cold sample well and pour them in their respective glasses so that each glass is filled to the same level. Cover them and come back the next day. Suppose 40 is the right amount: then you will see 36 hazy, 38 less hazy, 40 clear with a nice tight bed of sediment, and then 42 and 44 will also be clear, but their sediment beds will be less tight.
This is a great way to adjust your fining without actually knowing what has changed and why you are getting more haze.
(2) Sorry if you mention this, but I am a little confused because you call this "chill haze." You are fining cold, right? Colder than the cooler your assistant put that sample in? You need to generate chill haze in order to remove it. Biofine isn't going to clear out any chill haze that hasn't yet become presented in the beer.
To add to (2:) if this is a new issue, is it possible that your system is not cooling effectively in the summer heat? Again, you cannot find out haze that isn't present in the beer. The tank needs to be completely and uniformly cold before fining in order to effectively fine out chill haze. This is why we crash tanks down to a temperature that is well below the walk-in or household fridge temp at which it will be stored, purchased, and consumed
We had a similar issue recently and pulled our hair out before finally discovering our supplier had sent us an expired drum of Biofine. We had never checked the expiration date before which was a mistake. Easy to check and fix.
We’re generally doing 100ml for heavier soiled tanks like IPAs and half that for lager beers and less soiled like English styles off the A01. I’m wondering if with summer here, the increase in ground water temp and longer or more tedious knockouts are the culprit. This is the first time I’ve have a seasonal flux in ground water with a city source. Till now x there hasn’t been a problem.
I’ve over shot on biofine before and got the fluffy bottoms, but this is the whole tank
You're thinking the longer knockout causes the trub pile to break apart and lose shape? Might be that. It's usually a balance not drawing off too fast either. Might be anecdotal but I've seen a cooler whirlpool can give a looser trub pile. What temp do you whirlpool at?
Something else I believe can give looser trub piles is the hop varieties used, their density and their oil contents. Some definitely form a better cone than others.
Cones are good, often tight, whirlpool temp is usually 209, but I have had this issue in a cooled whirlpool as well. My thoughts with a slower knockout leaned towards a shitty cold break
Is it a brick pitch every time? I’m not super familiar with A01 but it looks like it is potentially a haze positive strain, which could get worse with each gen.
Ah! S04 is super haze positive. Not saying it’s definitively the issue, but it’s one of those strains that can tip over into haze very easily. We use it for our hazies for that reason.
It's advisable to run through some general haze troubleshooting, here is a guide:
https://knowledge.escarpmentlabs.com/article/324-troubleshooting-haze-unexpectedly-hazy-beer
Biofine inline on the way to the brite?
Can’t do it, this place only has unitanks. I recently installed a 30bbl we got off auction but my cellar was built by an amateur. 3 30bbl uni, 1 actual 15bbl uni(current tank) 4 14bbl uni (they started with a 7bbl system, these are the old double tanks) 1 30bbl brite.
You can still biofine/nalco in a Uni. Once the beer is crashed, do another dump, then hook CO2 up to the bottom, depressurize, start to bubble CO2 from the bottom, open your port at the top and dump the appropriate amount of your fining agent in the top. Then throttle back how much you’re degassing so the tank slowly builds pressure and bubble for 2 - 3 hours. Dump again the next day before you condition in the tank. Our west coast IPA is crystal clear and it receives a hefty WP addition and DH. We use Cali.
Hey Teddy, current process is similar but biofine/nalco is shot into the racking post cone/arm dump @ 30-32f @ 100ml per barrel and bubbled. After a hearty bubble we Zahm and then carb with a rotometer to 2.5, then let rest. I have a hop dipped juicy ipa that is crystal clear with this method, same yeast. This is a recent development, the real bitch about this particular beer is that we also did a gelatin injection inline into another empty unitank and still no clarity except for warming a sample to room temp.
I’d try giving it a day to rest before carbonating. Ya, I know of a few breweries that are currently struggling with clarity. Could be higher protein levels in base malt. Hopefully you get it sorted!
Yeah it's been happening to a lot of people, and for a while now. We started seeing a big jump in haze after a bad crop year a few years ago (I don't remember which year specifically) and it has been an uphill battle since
Two things: (1) Does your 100ml/bbl number come from product literature or from testing? If this has changed recently you should test your fining regimen. Mix up a 1% solution of your fining agent (say, 1ml fining to 99ml distilled water.) each ml soln = 0.01ml fining. Get some classes with vaguely conical bottoms and run a test. 100ml/bbl is roughly 0.43ml in a half liter. With the above soln that would be 43ml soln in a 500ml sample. If I were you I would start there and go a little high and a little low. I would do half liter samples with 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46ml soln. Mix up each cold sample well and pour them in their respective glasses so that each glass is filled to the same level. Cover them and come back the next day. Suppose 40 is the right amount: then you will see 36 hazy, 38 less hazy, 40 clear with a nice tight bed of sediment, and then 42 and 44 will also be clear, but their sediment beds will be less tight. This is a great way to adjust your fining without actually knowing what has changed and why you are getting more haze. (2) Sorry if you mention this, but I am a little confused because you call this "chill haze." You are fining cold, right? Colder than the cooler your assistant put that sample in? You need to generate chill haze in order to remove it. Biofine isn't going to clear out any chill haze that hasn't yet become presented in the beer.
To add to (2:) if this is a new issue, is it possible that your system is not cooling effectively in the summer heat? Again, you cannot find out haze that isn't present in the beer. The tank needs to be completely and uniformly cold before fining in order to effectively fine out chill haze. This is why we crash tanks down to a temperature that is well below the walk-in or household fridge temp at which it will be stored, purchased, and consumed
We had a similar issue recently and pulled our hair out before finally discovering our supplier had sent us an expired drum of Biofine. We had never checked the expiration date before which was a mistake. Easy to check and fix.
100ml/bbl of biofine is double what I'm used to. Too high a rate will throw haze I'd imagine... Your brewhouse may vary of course!
We’re generally doing 100ml for heavier soiled tanks like IPAs and half that for lager beers and less soiled like English styles off the A01. I’m wondering if with summer here, the increase in ground water temp and longer or more tedious knockouts are the culprit. This is the first time I’ve have a seasonal flux in ground water with a city source. Till now x there hasn’t been a problem. I’ve over shot on biofine before and got the fluffy bottoms, but this is the whole tank
You're thinking the longer knockout causes the trub pile to break apart and lose shape? Might be that. It's usually a balance not drawing off too fast either. Might be anecdotal but I've seen a cooler whirlpool can give a looser trub pile. What temp do you whirlpool at? Something else I believe can give looser trub piles is the hop varieties used, their density and their oil contents. Some definitely form a better cone than others.
Cones are good, often tight, whirlpool temp is usually 209, but I have had this issue in a cooled whirlpool as well. My thoughts with a slower knockout leaned towards a shitty cold break
Did you change hops, hop amounts, hop timing, etc? Did you check the malt COA? If you desperately want it out, you could consider fining with PVPP.
This is the third issue with the third different beer, the base malt changed in this one 50/50 Rahr NS pils and pale but the others were all NS Pils.
Is it a brick pitch every time? I’m not super familiar with A01 but it looks like it is potentially a haze positive strain, which could get worse with each gen.
Nope, liquid pitch, basically s04 from Imperial, harvested and counted.
Ah! S04 is super haze positive. Not saying it’s definitively the issue, but it’s one of those strains that can tip over into haze very easily. We use it for our hazies for that reason.
Checked your CoAs recently?
Two different malts tho. Also, same pallet, one ipa has haze, American lager crystal clear with same fining process hot and cold side
It's advisable to run through some general haze troubleshooting, here is a guide: https://knowledge.escarpmentlabs.com/article/324-troubleshooting-haze-unexpectedly-hazy-beer