Both of which were not in Kyoshi's time though. But regardless, you raise a fair point about royalty living longer in the Avatar universe.
However even with your example, Kyoshi would live to see 4 firelords. 95+102= 197. That's still 33 years left to see one firelord's death/descension and another's birth/ascension.
95+102 assuming that they became firelord as soon as they were in crib lol. I'd assume that having a child around 25-30, and them not ascending to throne until the old one dies or dethroned (like zuko did to ozai), so I'd say more than 33 year left for ascension and descension
This sounds more like it. Sozin was firelord when Aang went into the ice. Ozai when he came out. That's 3 firelords in 100 years so Kyoshi could have easily lived through 5 firelords.
What confuses me is that it says both Sozin's father and grandfather were avatar and firelord. Not sure how that works as it would mean either 3 avatars died between the conception and birth of both Sozin's father and Sozin himself (as he and Roku were born the same day I believe) or, there were 3 fire nation Avatars in a row.
Sozin was born the day Kyoshi died, so his age and his son's age are irrelevant. Kyoshi lived to 230 - I believe Chaeryu was ruling when she was born, then Zoryu when she was like 17? 18? Even if he ruled until he was over 100 (and Kyoshi was 100) and had a child at 80, then that kid died at age 100 (Kyoshi age 180) we still have another 60 years to cover until her death. That's at least 4 Fire Lords, and being extremely generous
Is it confirmed she died the day Sozin was born or are you making the assumption that there is perfect continuity between avatars. I don’t see any reason to believe in perfect continuity considering the religions the idea comes from don’t follow this idea.
Well no, perfect continuity has never been confirmed, it's just easier to figure out dates if things work that way. That's not important though - what IS important is that Kyoshi died before Roku was born, and Roku was born the exact same day as Sozin. That bit is canon
I figured there must be some gap of time, otherwise finding the next Avatar would be *much* easier than it seems to be. (They'd have it narrowed down to only babies born on a specific day.)
That would require they always know the day the avatar died which would probably be ver rare given that a lot of avatars are recluse in their older years. And then theres the issue of people potentially lying about when the baby was born.
Amd even then it would take time for the kid to age enough to test.
I might be misunderstanding your comment, but wouldn’t Kyoshi have died before Sozin was born since he was about the same age as Roku? And she’d be long gone by the time of Azulon because that’d be when Aang was in the iceberg
Ngl I’ve always thought that explanation was a little silly, considering that something like half of firebenders would probably see the comet at some point in their lives.
The comet is mentioned in the Kyoshi novels, along with a concurrent festival called 'double sun day' taking place right around when you'd expect the comet to happen.
Kyoshi sees a wall of paintings with former Fire Lords in the palace. Zoryu is the current fire lord and Chaeryu is significant because of some... Troubles with succession.
Yosor is the fire lord during Avatar Szeto’s time, he’s mentioned during the book. Chaeryu is the father to Zoryu, Chaeryu is dead before the beginning of the book.
Those books dove a lot into Fire Nation culture. There was a lot about “This Fire Lord did this” and “There was one Fire Lord who did that”, which means we do know *OF* them, even if not much *about* them.
Kyoshi lived for 230 years,assuming every fire lord she lived through lived to be about 80 she probably saw around 3 fire lords,maybe more if they died or were replaced younger
Unless their successors were born when they were 80 and became firelord the moment they were born, just because they lived to be 80, doesnt mean they were firelord for 80 years.
Sozin was firelord when Aang went in the ice, Azulon was firelord at some point while he was in the ice and Ozai when he came out. That's 3 in 100 years.
Chaeryu was dead by the time Kyoshi came. Kyoshi knew of Zoryu. Roku and Sozin shared a birthday. So she knew every firelord from Zoryu to Sozin's father.
The Kyoshi books were just about her first few years. We learned about Chaeryu and Yosor but it was Zoryu who was the young firelord in power in the early years of Kyoshi’s avatarhood. So she lived through at least 3. It’s possible Sozin’s father didn’t become firelord until Kyoshi died and held the throne for x decades before Sozin took over.
Iroh would not be called Iroh 2. Only if there would have been another Firelord Iroh. But since uncle Iroh never became Firelord, his namesake would just be Firelord Iroh.
Haha, I was about to comment this. Having roman numerals next to your name is to represent past monarchs who had the same name, not just anyone in the royal family with said name.
The third is quite common in my part of the world. Usually grandfather to son to grandson as Sr. Jr. III.
The second is rarer but does happen in none royals. It indicates being directly named for a relative who is not your parent.
The Netherlands has had four kings, three of them were named Willem and the fourth calls himself Willem-Alexander because he doesn't want to be the same 😂
Pretty much everyone up to Wilhemina named every kid Willem at the start of the name which each consisted of like 6 names, so the next head of state should be known as Willem even if the eldest died
Why would Izumi name her baby Iroh II? I'm naned after my grampa and I don't have a number in my name.
Plus is probably that Zuko's uncle died before his grandson was born. These 2 Iroh may had never lived in same period
It’s actually not unheard of. Some families, even families without wealth or prestige, will name their kid something like John Jacob I, then II, III, and so forth. Also, the numerical naming doesn’t have to be applied to only direct descendants, so Izumi’s son could have been named Iroh II despite Iroh only being his great-granduncle, not great-grandfather, even though in universe he is simply named Iroh in honor of his great-granduncle.
That all being said, it’s possible that Iroh met great-grandnephew, depending on how long he lived and how young Zuko had Izumi and Izumi had Iroh.
Yeah, but from what we know they are only ones to have their respective positions as their highest
There can't be a Fire Lord Iroh II since there was never a Fire Lord Iroh I
Current Iroh is General Iroh II, but assuming that he will become Fire Lord, he will not cap that title in history. Usually in history poeple keep theor highest position in life. This is why Napoleon is named "emperor" and not "general"
I have a feeling in the earth kingdom Avatar show the Firelord will only be a constitutional monarch, the earth kingdom is now a democracy with an elected head of state and the new show will be set in a world that's as technologically advanced as our own. I imagine the world of Avatar will become more modern politically too.
It’s not inevitable that there will be just constitutional monarchies or democracies (or dictatorships). Look at Saudi Arabia or Vatican. Or how North Korea is turning itself into a monarchy.
Change also doesn’t just happen, there needs to be some internal reason for Fire Nation public to feel that there is an issue with the monarchy
I don’t know, look at Japan. Emperor Naruhiro’s lineage goes all the way back to the first emperor, yet in modern Japan political powers are diverted to the Prime Minister. Similar to how the monarch of the United Kingdom eventually became a more ceremonial role than a political one.
If the firelord is supposed to be the top firebender, they could absolutely keep the lineage thing going and instead elect a “fire minister/president” or something lol. Look at Black Panther / Wakanda. Wakanda has a king that makes policy decisions but it’s not necessarily the black panther at all times. The black panther is the strongest warrior- a protector of the nation. I could see them going a similar route by separating the political and “warrior” roles of firelord.
As he said, there would need to be a reason for the change to happen. Bringing up Japan just backs up his point, there was most definitely a reason that the Japanese monarchy lost the power it had and the system changed. Were it not for WW2, Japan could very well still be ruled by an emperor.
Yeah that’s the gut feeling I have too. I personally hated the rapid tech advancements in Korra, felt completely foreign and out of place. If our Avatar has a literal cellphone in the new show I think I’ll cry LOL
Edit: I understand that the technology advancement from ATLA to LOK is accurate and doable. I was more so speaking to how some technologies don’t necessarily fit the vibe of Avatar IMO
For the most part I liked the tech advancements it made sense but I do agree cellphones and stuff like that I wouldn’t like. Avatar should still have its own identity and not resemble our own world 1:1
Agree. Just hope the new series doesn’t turn into a crazy SciFi adventure with absurd levels of technology. Would definitely take away from the grounded, core aspects of the show.
The original artwork by Bryan Konietzko that kickstarted the entire series was SciFi. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go that direction and call it some full circle moment.
I would personally love a sci-fi world, but something more akin to 50s-70s sci-fi, like Dune, or the foundation series where the tech is esoteric, and limited in scope. So things like spacecraft are possible but nobody has heard of cellphones.
If done right I am not opposed to having a story kind of like final fantasy X. Where technological progress was severly halted because it became outlawed because it got blamed for issues of a spiritual nature. For example spirits start revolting against humans and a politician blames technology for upsetting the balance and that it should be outlawed.
Well LoK is comparable to the 1920s, so is AtlA comparable to the 1850s? Prewar Fire Nation being in the 1750s right before the first industrial revolution hits.
To visualize how rapid that can be think of all the inventions between 1850 and 1920. stuff like planes, cars and electricity being widely available, telephones and films etc. depending on the region you are in 1850 could be unchanged from 1650. That would be Japan, which was 1850 still in isolation.
Depends on how old Korra is going to be, but the next Avatar could be anywhere between our 2020s and a Cyberpunk age. Given that ATLA has more steampunk elements than reflecting 1850s tech and LoK already got mechas, a cyberpunk setting seems more likely.
Could be interesting. What role would benders play in a technologically advanced society? LOK touched on the disparities between the two with non-benders being seen at a disadvantage. Maybe invert that with bending seen as a relic and society in spiritual decline further weakening bending abilities. The story would need an antagonist that could only be defeated by bending/mastering the spiritual side.
it’s 2040. benders are just blue collar wage slaves pushing dirt and clay around construction sites or irrigating farms. the avatar should have learned to code and made real cash instead of wasting time bending
honestly I hope it is.
Make it grim, make it dark.
But most importantly: make benders rarer.
Could you imagine a cyberpsycho jumping an earth bender and them promptly being thrown aside, broken in fifty different ways and then left to just sit there?
Actually.... I think you have something there.
So with this new world they're intermixing nations. So we see a fire bender and earth bender brother and air and water siblings to just name two.
But what if all that mixing, makes the gene pools (which drives bending) more muddied, and thus bending doesn't come out as easily. And pair that with advancing tech, a lack of a need for actual bending. You might have a generation of people who have repressed bending. They aren't even aware of their heritage and couldn't even begin to start honing their powers.
Agreed, I feel like part of the awesomeness of the show wasn’t just the bending but the setting and ambiance. Flying on a glider or riding a rock avalanche instead of driving a motorcycle or sato mobile is just so much more fun to me too
In the real world, it was 140 years between the railroad system being made and getting to the moon. 80 years between steamboats and automobiles is pretty doable.
Was it that rapid though? We had airships, tanks and a giant drill in ATLA already, and we know that the Mechanist is likely several decades ahead of his time. He probably settled in the EK and grew to prominence, forwarding tech and training apprentices.
What if they ran with the Japan Mania of the times and made all the fashion Japanese influenced, but like contemporary Japanese influenced? So kimonos and business suits, sometimes in one.
I think the technology did not really advance too fast.
It was more a matter of the chosen setting: in Avatar: the Last Airbender, most places we saw were in rural environments, and especially nations that had not industrialized by this point ( the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes). Many of these places were probably still "backwards" during Korra's time, just as how many places in our world are still not very industrialized to this day.
Meanwhile, the Industrial revolution in ATLA's time was concentrated in the Fire Nation and some of its colonies, and we even see some of that in the comics. Now, imagine if the Gaang had more time in these places during the show's run? We'd see very different, more modern and industrialized places, and that would affect your view of the world.
Good point! A lot of industrialization was definitely happening throughout ATLA that we weren’t privy to. However, I still think the rural/organic ‘chosen setting,’ as you said, just feels like Avatar. I really don’t see a modern tech setting working.
How? Every other civilization was like ancient China or below and the fire nation had TANKS and AIRSHIPS, a DRILL, JETSKIS, and WARSHIPS. They were already like WW1 era advancement in military tech. The advancements made almost a full 100 years later is definitely a natural advancement. Especially when that tech is opened up to the public to develop on and not sequestered within the Fire Nation.
Hello Future Me has a great video on how the creators borrowed from our own historical progression and extrapolated using the presence of a magic system to create something believable.
80 year from the end of LOK would put us around the Avatar version of the late 90’s/early 2000’s. I think it’d probably be less smartphone/social media and more TVs, pagers, and butterfly hair clips
The earthbending show hasn't even been confirmed yet but I still dream about the potential for a Firebending show. Abolishment of the Firelord system in the Earthbending show with a descendent of the Firelords in the "Futuristic" Firebending show playing some key role is now my headcanon for what might happen.
The firelord would probably be a symbolic figurehead like the British monarchy. I mean let's be real, they are not giving up their 10k year lineage and I wouldn't even blame them for it
Just a heads-up: the chart is missing Gonryu (between Yosor and Chaeryu), and Iroh II isn't Fire Lord yet (and it's possible that for whatever reason the crown will fall to his sister). This chart also doesn't differentiate between official and fan designs; we currently don't have official designs for Yosor, Chaeryu, or Zoryu. It also makes assumptions about when the two unknown Fire Lords reigned, assuming they're meant to be fully in order; either one could be either before or after Zoryu (or Zoryu himself).
Assuming it falls in real life and coronations are just a ceremony. They aren’t actually what makes someone a monarch
For example, King Charles would’ve become king the instant his mother Queen Elizabeth died not after his coronation
So Azula would’ve been become fire Lord the second Ozai said he is making her fire lord
this would be correct but considering its atla there can be some leeway in these sorts of things. azulas coronation seems to have been set for either the same day that ozai announced her as fire lord or the day after (depending on how long it took for him to get to the earth kingdom where him and aang fought). it would make sense if the fire lord only officially became fire lord after their coronation in this context because there would be such a short amount of time between the announcement and the coronation itself. in the real world monarchs are only really officially kings / queens before their coronation because they take place months after the announcement and it would be impractical to have no monarch in the time leading up to it and you cant plan one in advance for the death of a monarch to pass on the title.
kings in real life are kings as soon as their predecessor is not longer king ( notably death ), not after coronation, when Elizabeth II died, Charles III became king the second his mother died, the coronation, which took place several months later is just a ceremonial event. so if the fire nation monarchy works the same, which it has to really, Azula was for several hours the fire lord, after her father assumed another position.
Iroh II hasnt become Firelord *yet*, last info we got Izumi is still on the Throne (and shes not THAT old, so she still got some time).
Unless Firelord-naming conventions work differently from IRL royalty he would also just be called Iroh once he does ascend the throne - since Uncle Iroh never took the Title, there is no previous namesake, so he'd be Iroh I.
No one was commenting this. I was thinking "maybe that was his name? What lore did I miss? And I a fool who doesn't k ow the story the way I thought I did?" So in a way thank-you.
It is technically possible. 10th President John Tyler (1790-1862) has a living grandson today (Born 1928). This grandson has a son born in 1961, and if you do the math matching Tyler's death to Sozin's, this great-grandson would be 2 or 3 years older than Zuko is.
I guess if azulon was 90 in that throne room scene, then it could work. But that would mean sozin had azulon when he was also an old ass man. Azulon would have been growing up while the war was raging on, meaning the fire nation was essentially leaderless during those early years of the war. Yeah idk
Azulon was in fact 95 when he was murdered.
Sozin died at 102 (20 years after the start of the war.)
Azulon was born the year the war started, when Sozin was 82, and was 20 when he became Fire Lord. As mentioned, he died at 95,
Ozai was born when Azulon was around about 55, 10 years after Iroh, and was 40 when he became Fire Lord.
Zuko was born when Ozai was about 28.
Yeah it just doesn’t make much sense. The chances that Sozin would have no children until he was 82 are miniscule. Not to mention his wife would have been at an age that she shouldn’t realistically be able to give birth.
This is not even getting into Roku’s line, which is equally strange.
They screwed up.
One possible explanation is that Azulon was Sozin's youngest child by a concubine, and he later designated him as his heir. We already know that a Fire Lord can revoke the birthright of his eldest child and simply choose another successor.
At that age it’s possible he outlived his intended heir(s). Happened with Pharaoh Ramesses II. Lived until 93 in the Bronze Age. Not a common occurrence. He outlived many of his sons and I think his heir was something like twelfth in line. Azulon might’ve been under similar circumstances.
It’s also implied that Azulon was a Fire Bending prodigy similar to Azula, so it would make sense that he would outlast his siblings or even just get chosen as the successor over them.
This is due to Bryke not really doing the math when it came to Sozin and Azulon. Sozin was aged up to be Roku's age instead of younger than him, and going by the show only, Sozin lived to be about 140 years old, which is weird because Azulon was an old man and lived to be about 95 (this part isn't mentioned in the show I think), and in his funeral it's said he reigned for 27 years.
So naturally none of these details make sense when making a timeline. So Sozin's age got changed to 104 or 106 if I remember correctly, and Azulon's reign is now 75 years. But this is still weird in the sense that Sozin had Azulon at around 70 years old after the war began (per the old lore webpage for him on Nick dot com)
Fire Lord math is screwed up because they wanted Sozin and Roku to be Zuko's great grandfathers instead of great-great-great(?) grandfathers, which didn't mesh well with Sozin being 70 when Roku died 112 years before the start of the series and Azulon's stated 23 years on the throne in Zuko Alone.
Do we have any indication that Iroh II in Korra is next in line?
Come to think of it, why is a prince of one nation, a general in another entirely sovereign nation?
We might be a little off, because if Sozin’s grandfather was the firebending avatar, then we would have to be 4 generations down for Sozin and Roku to be around at the same time, not two
Sozin's grandfather wasn't a firebending avatar. "The Avatar and the Firelord" was the title of the episode which revealed the backstory of Avatar Roku and Firelord Sozin.
That's the story where we see them. The 6th episode of book 3. So they weren't both the avatar, they were just seen in the episode about Roku and Sozin.
Jesus Christ! What the hell is up with Fire Lord Chaeryu’s chin!? Fire Lord Chinryu over here about to pull a fucking comet from the sky by shaking his head.
And was Sozin’s grandfather fat Handsome Squidward!?
Zuko, my boy, the fuck is your ancestry!?
Technically, as far as I know, Iroh II doesn't ever become Fire Lord. While he is the next in line for the throne, he is not guaranteed to take the position. He could die before his chance comes or he could simply refuse to take the throne and remain a general. He does have a younger sister and his mother is fairly young, so there is every opportunity that anything could happen making him unable or unwilling to ascend.
So Iroh II should imply that there was a previous Firelord named Iroh. Since royal name numbering usually skips over any family members of that name that don't become the ruler.
Here’s something interesting: Apart from the first Firelord and his obnoxious crown, all the Firelords before Zuko had an arrow bar through their top knot. No idea what it means but it’s interesting.
Shouldn’t Azula be on this list between Ozai and Zuko? Sure, it was for less than a day, but Ozai did appoint her Fire Lord when he proclaimed himself Phoenix King.
Were firelords dropping like flies in the Kyoshi books or something?
Kyoshi lived to see at least 5 firelords just because she lived so long.
Not 5. Azulon 95. Sozin 102 they said he lived this long cause of the comet. So at most 3 fire lords.
Both of which were not in Kyoshi's time though. But regardless, you raise a fair point about royalty living longer in the Avatar universe. However even with your example, Kyoshi would live to see 4 firelords. 95+102= 197. That's still 33 years left to see one firelord's death/descension and another's birth/ascension.
95+102 assuming that they became firelord as soon as they were in crib lol. I'd assume that having a child around 25-30, and them not ascending to throne until the old one dies or dethroned (like zuko did to ozai), so I'd say more than 33 year left for ascension and descension
This sounds more like it. Sozin was firelord when Aang went into the ice. Ozai when he came out. That's 3 firelords in 100 years so Kyoshi could have easily lived through 5 firelords. What confuses me is that it says both Sozin's father and grandfather were avatar and firelord. Not sure how that works as it would mean either 3 avatars died between the conception and birth of both Sozin's father and Sozin himself (as he and Roku were born the same day I believe) or, there were 3 fire nation Avatars in a row.
That appears to be the name of the episode, not stating that they were fire lords and avatars
My bad!
"avatar and firelord" refers to the source of the inspiration I think
Yep. Had a total brainfart with this one! 
Beaides the fact that Aang was born as soon as Roku died.
Wait, where was that stated? I honestly didn't know this
Just realised the picture shows episode names, thought it was stating they were firelord and the avatar.
Ah good, because I was really confused for a second
Clearly, so was I!
Sozin was born the day Kyoshi died, so his age and his son's age are irrelevant. Kyoshi lived to 230 - I believe Chaeryu was ruling when she was born, then Zoryu when she was like 17? 18? Even if he ruled until he was over 100 (and Kyoshi was 100) and had a child at 80, then that kid died at age 100 (Kyoshi age 180) we still have another 60 years to cover until her death. That's at least 4 Fire Lords, and being extremely generous
Is it confirmed she died the day Sozin was born or are you making the assumption that there is perfect continuity between avatars. I don’t see any reason to believe in perfect continuity considering the religions the idea comes from don’t follow this idea.
Well no, perfect continuity has never been confirmed, it's just easier to figure out dates if things work that way. That's not important though - what IS important is that Kyoshi died before Roku was born, and Roku was born the exact same day as Sozin. That bit is canon
I kinda always figured that the moment the avatar dies they are reborn.
That's kind of implied with how they portray Rokus death immediately followed by baby Aang crying
I figured there must be some gap of time, otherwise finding the next Avatar would be *much* easier than it seems to be. (They'd have it narrowed down to only babies born on a specific day.)
That would require they always know the day the avatar died which would probably be ver rare given that a lot of avatars are recluse in their older years. And then theres the issue of people potentially lying about when the baby was born. Amd even then it would take time for the kid to age enough to test.
Iirc Roku and Sozin are exactly the same age, iirc there was a point of them sharing a birthday
I read somewhere that the next avatar is born within a week of their predecessors death. Not sure how accurate that is
I might be misunderstanding your comment, but wouldn’t Kyoshi have died before Sozin was born since he was about the same age as Roku? And she’d be long gone by the time of Azulon because that’d be when Aang was in the iceberg
They shared birthdays, so she indeed never knew about Sozin.
Well, not when Sozin was alive, she probably knew the Fire Queen was pregnant
Ngl I’ve always thought that explanation was a little silly, considering that something like half of firebenders would probably see the comet at some point in their lives.
I’d be mad at my parents if I was born right after the comet and died at like 30 because of it.
Depends on if the comet always comes so close and if it's always a century in between
The comet is mentioned in the Kyoshi novels, along with a concurrent festival called 'double sun day' taking place right around when you'd expect the comet to happen.
We also know sozin was born after kysoshi died because he and roku shared the same birthday- same year same day
Compared to 102 year old Sozin and 95 year old Azulon, yeah.
Zoryu was the current firelord at the time of Kyoshi's novels. The two former firelords were already dead.
Chaeryu got that Hapsburg chin.
https://preview.redd.it/x9n2n5rdgzqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ce397f64bf5c8d49de5e6d5a188edad3904edca
thank you oversimplified
Fire Lords after him stopped keeping the blood pure by marrying nobles instead of cousins.
Kyoshi sees a wall of paintings with former Fire Lords in the palace. Zoryu is the current fire lord and Chaeryu is significant because of some... Troubles with succession.
Yosor is the fire lord during Avatar Szeto’s time, he’s mentioned during the book. Chaeryu is the father to Zoryu, Chaeryu is dead before the beginning of the book.
Those books dove a lot into Fire Nation culture. There was a lot about “This Fire Lord did this” and “There was one Fire Lord who did that”, which means we do know *OF* them, even if not much *about* them.
"To shreds, you say?"
Smoke and Shadow covers the first, second, and sixth, so it’s not necessarily chronological. Shadow of Kyoshi just mentions when they served.
Kyoshi lived for like 250 years because of an immortality technique
Kyoshi lived for 230 years,assuming every fire lord she lived through lived to be about 80 she probably saw around 3 fire lords,maybe more if they died or were replaced younger
Unless their successors were born when they were 80 and became firelord the moment they were born, just because they lived to be 80, doesnt mean they were firelord for 80 years. Sozin was firelord when Aang went in the ice, Azulon was firelord at some point while he was in the ice and Ozai when he came out. That's 3 in 100 years.
Chaeryu was dead by the time Kyoshi came. Kyoshi knew of Zoryu. Roku and Sozin shared a birthday. So she knew every firelord from Zoryu to Sozin's father.
The Kyoshi books were just about her first few years. We learned about Chaeryu and Yosor but it was Zoryu who was the young firelord in power in the early years of Kyoshi’s avatarhood. So she lived through at least 3. It’s possible Sozin’s father didn’t become firelord until Kyoshi died and held the throne for x decades before Sozin took over.
Oh fire lord my flame burns for thee
GO BACK TO THE FIRE NATION!
Iroh would not be called Iroh 2. Only if there would have been another Firelord Iroh. But since uncle Iroh never became Firelord, his namesake would just be Firelord Iroh.
Haha, I was about to comment this. Having roman numerals next to your name is to represent past monarchs who had the same name, not just anyone in the royal family with said name.
The third is quite common in my part of the world. Usually grandfather to son to grandson as Sr. Jr. III. The second is rarer but does happen in none royals. It indicates being directly named for a relative who is not your parent.
it’s different for royal titles but this is a fantasy world so it doesn’t really matter
Fire lord Iroh II, first of his name.
Can't wait for Iroh II II
They did the "Z" thing for a while, maybe prior to that there was a Firelord Iroh.
It’s a long line of seemingly one dynasty. I’m actually amazed there aren’t more repeat names.
Reminds me of the Targaryens naming everyone fucking Aegon. Imagine if the Firelord dynasty did that and there were like 5 Zukos or something
The Netherlands has had four kings, three of them were named Willem and the fourth calls himself Willem-Alexander because he doesn't want to be the same 😂
Pretty much everyone up to Wilhemina named every kid Willem at the start of the name which each consisted of like 6 names, so the next head of state should be known as Willem even if the eldest died
Or you know, real monarchs. Henry VIII...
And don’t forget about the ptolemaic dynasty in egypt where literally every male ruler was named Ptolemaios
And every female ruler Cleopatra.
Or the Danes, who currently have Frederick X.
I have cross show thoughts constantly. Glad I'm not the only one
So even though his name is Iroh II, he would just be Firelord Iroh? I guess that makes sense
he’s not even Iroh II technically, he’s just named after Iroh
And I see. I assumed his in-universe name was actually Iroh II, but it seems like that’s just a fan made nickname to distinguish him from the OG
Why would Izumi name her baby Iroh II? I'm naned after my grampa and I don't have a number in my name. Plus is probably that Zuko's uncle died before his grandson was born. These 2 Iroh may had never lived in same period
It’s actually not unheard of. Some families, even families without wealth or prestige, will name their kid something like John Jacob I, then II, III, and so forth. Also, the numerical naming doesn’t have to be applied to only direct descendants, so Izumi’s son could have been named Iroh II despite Iroh only being his great-granduncle, not great-grandfather, even though in universe he is simply named Iroh in honor of his great-granduncle. That all being said, it’s possible that Iroh met great-grandnephew, depending on how long he lived and how young Zuko had Izumi and Izumi had Iroh.
My dad is John IV
I always assumed Iroh lived long enough to at least meet Izumi and have some impact on her life.
It isn't uncommon for royalty named after a grandparent or uncle to have a "the second" or "the third" appended to their name to distinguish them.
Yeah, but in Avatar World's history, Iroh (uncle) would be simply named as General Iroh. Iroh (grandson) would be named "Fire Lord Iroh" by historians
They don't just do the II and III thing on kings, you know.
Yeah, but from what we know they are only ones to have their respective positions as their highest There can't be a Fire Lord Iroh II since there was never a Fire Lord Iroh I Current Iroh is General Iroh II, but assuming that he will become Fire Lord, he will not cap that title in history. Usually in history poeple keep theor highest position in life. This is why Napoleon is named "emperor" and not "general"
Unless one of the unknown ones are another iroh, maybe uncle iroh was named after an ancestor.
He was an interim fire lord though! While Zuko went to go look for his mom.
Wait, when did he even become firelord?
Wasn’t he technically regent Fire Lord for like a week or so during the Search?
I have a feeling in the earth kingdom Avatar show the Firelord will only be a constitutional monarch, the earth kingdom is now a democracy with an elected head of state and the new show will be set in a world that's as technologically advanced as our own. I imagine the world of Avatar will become more modern politically too.
It’s not inevitable that there will be just constitutional monarchies or democracies (or dictatorships). Look at Saudi Arabia or Vatican. Or how North Korea is turning itself into a monarchy. Change also doesn’t just happen, there needs to be some internal reason for Fire Nation public to feel that there is an issue with the monarchy
I don’t know, look at Japan. Emperor Naruhiro’s lineage goes all the way back to the first emperor, yet in modern Japan political powers are diverted to the Prime Minister. Similar to how the monarch of the United Kingdom eventually became a more ceremonial role than a political one. If the firelord is supposed to be the top firebender, they could absolutely keep the lineage thing going and instead elect a “fire minister/president” or something lol. Look at Black Panther / Wakanda. Wakanda has a king that makes policy decisions but it’s not necessarily the black panther at all times. The black panther is the strongest warrior- a protector of the nation. I could see them going a similar route by separating the political and “warrior” roles of firelord.
As he said, there would need to be a reason for the change to happen. Bringing up Japan just backs up his point, there was most definitely a reason that the Japanese monarchy lost the power it had and the system changed. Were it not for WW2, Japan could very well still be ruled by an emperor.
 🪨
One thing everyone can agree on about the Live Action is that it gave us so much great, new memeable content.
Happy cake day, great gif!
Happy cake day OP
Yeah that’s the gut feeling I have too. I personally hated the rapid tech advancements in Korra, felt completely foreign and out of place. If our Avatar has a literal cellphone in the new show I think I’ll cry LOL Edit: I understand that the technology advancement from ATLA to LOK is accurate and doable. I was more so speaking to how some technologies don’t necessarily fit the vibe of Avatar IMO
For the most part I liked the tech advancements it made sense but I do agree cellphones and stuff like that I wouldn’t like. Avatar should still have its own identity and not resemble our own world 1:1
Agree. Just hope the new series doesn’t turn into a crazy SciFi adventure with absurd levels of technology. Would definitely take away from the grounded, core aspects of the show.
I mean LoK had mechasuits powered by spirit energy I think the futuristic sci fi nonsense is exactly what they'll lean into!
The original artwork by Bryan Konietzko that kickstarted the entire series was SciFi. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go that direction and call it some full circle moment.
I would personally love a sci-fi world, but something more akin to 50s-70s sci-fi, like Dune, or the foundation series where the tech is esoteric, and limited in scope. So things like spacecraft are possible but nobody has heard of cellphones.
If done right I am not opposed to having a story kind of like final fantasy X. Where technological progress was severly halted because it became outlawed because it got blamed for issues of a spiritual nature. For example spirits start revolting against humans and a politician blames technology for upsetting the balance and that it should be outlawed.
Well LoK is comparable to the 1920s, so is AtlA comparable to the 1850s? Prewar Fire Nation being in the 1750s right before the first industrial revolution hits. To visualize how rapid that can be think of all the inventions between 1850 and 1920. stuff like planes, cars and electricity being widely available, telephones and films etc. depending on the region you are in 1850 could be unchanged from 1650. That would be Japan, which was 1850 still in isolation. Depends on how old Korra is going to be, but the next Avatar could be anywhere between our 2020s and a Cyberpunk age. Given that ATLA has more steampunk elements than reflecting 1850s tech and LoK already got mechas, a cyberpunk setting seems more likely.
cyberpunk avatar is now my fuckin’ prayer Wake the Fuck up Avatar, We have bending to learn!
Could be interesting. What role would benders play in a technologically advanced society? LOK touched on the disparities between the two with non-benders being seen at a disadvantage. Maybe invert that with bending seen as a relic and society in spiritual decline further weakening bending abilities. The story would need an antagonist that could only be defeated by bending/mastering the spiritual side.
it’s 2040. benders are just blue collar wage slaves pushing dirt and clay around construction sites or irrigating farms. the avatar should have learned to code and made real cash instead of wasting time bending
honestly I hope it is. Make it grim, make it dark. But most importantly: make benders rarer. Could you imagine a cyberpsycho jumping an earth bender and them promptly being thrown aside, broken in fifty different ways and then left to just sit there?
Actually.... I think you have something there. So with this new world they're intermixing nations. So we see a fire bender and earth bender brother and air and water siblings to just name two. But what if all that mixing, makes the gene pools (which drives bending) more muddied, and thus bending doesn't come out as easily. And pair that with advancing tech, a lack of a need for actual bending. You might have a generation of people who have repressed bending. They aren't even aware of their heritage and couldn't even begin to start honing their powers.
Give me Adam Smasher that can metal bend.
Agreed, I feel like part of the awesomeness of the show wasn’t just the bending but the setting and ambiance. Flying on a glider or riding a rock avalanche instead of driving a motorcycle or sato mobile is just so much more fun to me too
In the real world, it was 140 years between the railroad system being made and getting to the moon. 80 years between steamboats and automobiles is pretty doable.
Was it that rapid though? We had airships, tanks and a giant drill in ATLA already, and we know that the Mechanist is likely several decades ahead of his time. He probably settled in the EK and grew to prominence, forwarding tech and training apprentices.
Friendly reminder that technology actually advanced faster IRL than in Korra...
I’m aware- was more so speaking to how some technologies don’t necessarily fit the vibe of the Avatar world IMO
What if it was like... the 80s. No cell phones but you have early computers and absolutely bonkers styles
What if they ran with the Japan Mania of the times and made all the fashion Japanese influenced, but like contemporary Japanese influenced? So kimonos and business suits, sometimes in one.
In AtLA, the Fire Nation was building steampunk wunderwaffe. Remember the gigantic drill-train? Or the fleet of steel-skin zeppelins?
I think the technology did not really advance too fast. It was more a matter of the chosen setting: in Avatar: the Last Airbender, most places we saw were in rural environments, and especially nations that had not industrialized by this point ( the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes). Many of these places were probably still "backwards" during Korra's time, just as how many places in our world are still not very industrialized to this day. Meanwhile, the Industrial revolution in ATLA's time was concentrated in the Fire Nation and some of its colonies, and we even see some of that in the comics. Now, imagine if the Gaang had more time in these places during the show's run? We'd see very different, more modern and industrialized places, and that would affect your view of the world.
Good point! A lot of industrialization was definitely happening throughout ATLA that we weren’t privy to. However, I still think the rural/organic ‘chosen setting,’ as you said, just feels like Avatar. I really don’t see a modern tech setting working.
How? Every other civilization was like ancient China or below and the fire nation had TANKS and AIRSHIPS, a DRILL, JETSKIS, and WARSHIPS. They were already like WW1 era advancement in military tech. The advancements made almost a full 100 years later is definitely a natural advancement. Especially when that tech is opened up to the public to develop on and not sequestered within the Fire Nation. Hello Future Me has a great video on how the creators borrowed from our own historical progression and extrapolated using the presence of a magic system to create something believable.
80 year from the end of LOK would put us around the Avatar version of the late 90’s/early 2000’s. I think it’d probably be less smartphone/social media and more TVs, pagers, and butterfly hair clips
MFW the next avatar avoids their duties by doomscrolling all day
I understand the timeline of the tech advancements but I feel like the ATLA world fits better in a minimal tech world
The earthbending show hasn't even been confirmed yet but I still dream about the potential for a Firebending show. Abolishment of the Firelord system in the Earthbending show with a descendent of the Firelords in the "Futuristic" Firebending show playing some key role is now my headcanon for what might happen.
The firelord would probably be a symbolic figurehead like the British monarchy. I mean let's be real, they are not giving up their 10k year lineage and I wouldn't even blame them for it
did the earth kingdom show get confirmed?
ozai was one pretty mf
The turnaround in handsome genes is pretty wild in this family tree tbh
I think you added an extra R
por que no los dos
Sozin was a looker in his early years too It’s just Ozai was the only one who decided to go batshit when he was still relatively young
That whole family is pretty
Just a heads-up: the chart is missing Gonryu (between Yosor and Chaeryu), and Iroh II isn't Fire Lord yet (and it's possible that for whatever reason the crown will fall to his sister). This chart also doesn't differentiate between official and fan designs; we currently don't have official designs for Yosor, Chaeryu, or Zoryu. It also makes assumptions about when the two unknown Fire Lords reigned, assuming they're meant to be fully in order; either one could be either before or after Zoryu (or Zoryu himself).
Fascinating. May I ask, from where this graphic is?
Right in the app Click on the photo and you will see the options
Where is it from though?
Thank you!
Which app is this?
Azula was technically firelord for all of like 6 hours when Ozai proclaimed himself Phoenix King
I dont think she counts, since her official coronation was interrupted
Assuming it falls in real life and coronations are just a ceremony. They aren’t actually what makes someone a monarch For example, King Charles would’ve become king the instant his mother Queen Elizabeth died not after his coronation So Azula would’ve been become fire Lord the second Ozai said he is making her fire lord
this would be correct but considering its atla there can be some leeway in these sorts of things. azulas coronation seems to have been set for either the same day that ozai announced her as fire lord or the day after (depending on how long it took for him to get to the earth kingdom where him and aang fought). it would make sense if the fire lord only officially became fire lord after their coronation in this context because there would be such a short amount of time between the announcement and the coronation itself. in the real world monarchs are only really officially kings / queens before their coronation because they take place months after the announcement and it would be impractical to have no monarch in the time leading up to it and you cant plan one in advance for the death of a monarch to pass on the title.
Le roi est mort, vive le reine!
She wasn't even crowned lol so I guess she's not?
kings in real life are kings as soon as their predecessor is not longer king ( notably death ), not after coronation, when Elizabeth II died, Charles III became king the second his mother died, the coronation, which took place several months later is just a ceremonial event. so if the fire nation monarchy works the same, which it has to really, Azula was for several hours the fire lord, after her father assumed another position.
Why is iroh 2 there? He's not a fire lord.
Iroh II hasnt become Firelord *yet*, last info we got Izumi is still on the Throne (and shes not THAT old, so she still got some time). Unless Firelord-naming conventions work differently from IRL royalty he would also just be called Iroh once he does ascend the throne - since Uncle Iroh never took the Title, there is no previous namesake, so he'd be Iroh I.
Iroh in the comics was acting fire lord for a while when zuko looked for his mother
I don’t think acting Fire Lords count same way a VP isn’t counted as a president when temporarily assuming presidential powers.
All known firelords - unknown
No one was commenting this. I was thinking "maybe that was his name? What lore did I miss? And I a fool who doesn't k ow the story the way I thought I did?" So in a way thank-you.
I’m still confused as to how the apparent heir to the fire nation throne is a general in the military of a different country.
i don’t think he even wants to be firelord cause he never made mention of it😭
Really odd how theres only 1 firelord between the hundred years. A bit of a plot hole
It is technically possible. 10th President John Tyler (1790-1862) has a living grandson today (Born 1928). This grandson has a son born in 1961, and if you do the math matching Tyler's death to Sozin's, this great-grandson would be 2 or 3 years older than Zuko is.
I guess if azulon was 90 in that throne room scene, then it could work. But that would mean sozin had azulon when he was also an old ass man. Azulon would have been growing up while the war was raging on, meaning the fire nation was essentially leaderless during those early years of the war. Yeah idk
Azulon was in fact 95 when he was murdered. Sozin died at 102 (20 years after the start of the war.) Azulon was born the year the war started, when Sozin was 82, and was 20 when he became Fire Lord. As mentioned, he died at 95, Ozai was born when Azulon was around about 55, 10 years after Iroh, and was 40 when he became Fire Lord. Zuko was born when Ozai was about 28.
Yeah it just doesn’t make much sense. The chances that Sozin would have no children until he was 82 are miniscule. Not to mention his wife would have been at an age that she shouldn’t realistically be able to give birth. This is not even getting into Roku’s line, which is equally strange. They screwed up.
One possible explanation is that Azulon was Sozin's youngest child by a concubine, and he later designated him as his heir. We already know that a Fire Lord can revoke the birthright of his eldest child and simply choose another successor.
At that age it’s possible he outlived his intended heir(s). Happened with Pharaoh Ramesses II. Lived until 93 in the Bronze Age. Not a common occurrence. He outlived many of his sons and I think his heir was something like twelfth in line. Azulon might’ve been under similar circumstances.
It’s also implied that Azulon was a Fire Bending prodigy similar to Azula, so it would make sense that he would outlast his siblings or even just get chosen as the successor over them.
This is due to Bryke not really doing the math when it came to Sozin and Azulon. Sozin was aged up to be Roku's age instead of younger than him, and going by the show only, Sozin lived to be about 140 years old, which is weird because Azulon was an old man and lived to be about 95 (this part isn't mentioned in the show I think), and in his funeral it's said he reigned for 27 years. So naturally none of these details make sense when making a timeline. So Sozin's age got changed to 104 or 106 if I remember correctly, and Azulon's reign is now 75 years. But this is still weird in the sense that Sozin had Azulon at around 70 years old after the war began (per the old lore webpage for him on Nick dot com)
The same thing happened with kyoshi
Fire Lord math is screwed up because they wanted Sozin and Roku to be Zuko's great grandfathers instead of great-great-great(?) grandfathers, which didn't mesh well with Sozin being 70 when Roku died 112 years before the start of the series and Azulon's stated 23 years on the throne in Zuko Alone.
is there a reason why the FLs from zuko don’t have the little double arrow hair pin?
Probably just dropped that part of the tradition as a way to move on from the past, but kept the fire nation insignia
Do we have any indication that Iroh II in Korra is next in line? Come to think of it, why is a prince of one nation, a general in another entirely sovereign nation?
Iroh II is confirmed to be next in line by the TTRPG Avatar Legends, which adds some lore about him.
I like how Izumi was the only female Fire lord of the bunch.
Well since there is an Iroh II logic dictates that there must have been an Iroh the first.
They got some weird chins in that family tree. Also, Izumi looks so sad/tired? What happened?
We might be a little off, because if Sozin’s grandfather was the firebending avatar, then we would have to be 4 generations down for Sozin and Roku to be around at the same time, not two
Sozin's grandfather wasn't a firebending avatar. "The Avatar and the Firelord" was the title of the episode which revealed the backstory of Avatar Roku and Firelord Sozin.
Not to mention it also says his father was Avatar and firelord. An avatar fathering the next avatar? Don't think so.
Chearyu really got that Habsburg chin huh.
I didn't know they started with a Firepope.
Title: „All Known Firelords“ First in the list: „Unknown“
The Chinese game of Chaeryu & Zoryu are on point. "The Mewing Firelords"
Where is azula she was fire lord for like one episode
Do we really know if General Iroh would become a Firelord since he is with the United Republic of Nations?
Crazy how most of the early fire lords are petty unattractive, and then Ozai and BAM they look like models.
I love ATLA loreee
https://preview.redd.it/pxl5frjk40rc1.jpeg?width=515&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d44282a9d101c17ddf15511447a3db730984f8
You forgot Azula. She was the official Fire Lord for a few hours at least after Ozai crowned himself Phoenix King
If you have a Firelord Iroh II, you'd have a Firelord Iroh I.
Wait how were Sozin’s father AND grandfather the avatar? Doesn’t that conflict with the cycle?
That's the story where we see them. The 6th episode of book 3. So they weren't both the avatar, they were just seen in the episode about Roku and Sozin.
They really went hard on this yellow eyes thing for almost every Fire nation character in later canon
Jesus Christ! What the hell is up with Fire Lord Chaeryu’s chin!? Fire Lord Chinryu over here about to pull a fucking comet from the sky by shaking his head. And was Sozin’s grandfather fat Handsome Squidward!? Zuko, my boy, the fuck is your ancestry!?
I feel like everyone forgets Fire Lord Azulon
Fr tho Kyoshi probably lived through 5+ fire lords
Iroh would just be iroh if were following irl logic since zukos uncle was never firelord
Technically, as far as I know, Iroh II doesn't ever become Fire Lord. While he is the next in line for the throne, he is not guaranteed to take the position. He could die before his chance comes or he could simply refuse to take the throne and remain a general. He does have a younger sister and his mother is fairly young, so there is every opportunity that anything could happen making him unable or unwilling to ascend.
So Iroh II should imply that there was a previous Firelord named Iroh. Since royal name numbering usually skips over any family members of that name that don't become the ruler.
Yknow Azula was firelord for like a day and a half
Uncle Iroh took over temporarily as firelord when Zuko and azula went to go and find their mother in the comics.
Is yosor male or female?
Here’s something interesting: Apart from the first Firelord and his obnoxious crown, all the Firelords before Zuko had an arrow bar through their top knot. No idea what it means but it’s interesting.
Shouldn’t Azula be on this list between Ozai and Zuko? Sure, it was for less than a day, but Ozai did appoint her Fire Lord when he proclaimed himself Phoenix King.
Is Iroh ll even firedlord yet? And would he even be next in line bc I heard he had a sister
Other firelords 👴👴👴🤓🤓🤓 Ozai: https://preview.redd.it/yhmqknbj8zqc1.jpeg?width=428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=802f76043123805d193e3e04bd13f2ed26a2effc
Wait Izumi's son is named Iroh??
Yep. He’s a general in the fire nation army in Korra
*United Forces
Forgets azula who was technically firebird for like a day.
Zuko is the only one with permanent proof that fire has consequences