Top ten villain of the show, but I like how they showed that it wasn’t just the Fire Nation that was bad and jerks existed all over the place.
Old man who got mugged by Jet is a real one though.
Katara was cold af in that episode. Already respected her, but after that, I was like, "Do you need me to take the trash out?", "I can do the dishes", "I swept and mopped the floor, emptied the litter box, and made your favorite meal while you were out"
"There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man."
I wish we'd get the final book already. It's been 13 years...
Because you’ve been down that road of emotional turmoil before and had to deal with it for so long that you can’t even imagine how someone would feel if they were to have the opportunity of having revenge, or justice. Whichever way you choose to look at it, it’s still such a beautiful thing that empathy is. But for someone who wears their heart on their sleeve, it can be deadly to others if they don’t know what they’re talking about
Definitely. What I was thinking is, for someone who can be so in tune with their emotions, you know the consequences of rage and revenge (she isnt always as in tune with her emotion, but thats part of her growth because the capacity is there). That's why Katara ultimately chooses to let him go, because he's obviously not even worth those consequences, that sacrificing of yourself and your ideals
She gets the closure that she needed for herself. Once she sees such a pathetic mess of a person and that would trade one life for another is just vile. Not worth wasting her time with, even if it took her until the last literal second to realize that. He was so scared like a child would be, probably more so. He was just so scared that he offered up his own mother’s life to her for a trade! Such a horrible person. Hope he gets fog of lost souls!
Lol, homie knew that she still didn't trust him fully because of his role in everything before his change of heart. He was like, "I'm coming correct for as long as I live... which may not be very long"
Hama was a response to a horrible situation that went too far.
Long Feng arguably thought what he eas doing was for the good of the city.
This old ballbag literally ratted out the kid that rescued him because… *checks notes* there is no given reason…
The Sand benders (that took Appa) are also massive pricks.
Edit:
For those who’re arguing that the old man isn’t that bad because the Fire Nation is oppressing him or that he was offered a reward.
Everyone is being oppressed by the Fire Nation, even the Fire Nation.
And him getting a reward doesn’t invalidate that he’s a walking pile of human-shaped shit who chose to take away a child’s freedom for personal gain. AFTER having his life saved by said child.
I’d assume the guy did it because he was living in a very oppressive society, and if they found out he lied and hid earthbenders from them, he would be punished very severely. He also could’ve been doing it for personal gain, as in I’ll give them up and get better treatment.
Still selfish, but there’s a lot of reasons someone in that scenario might give them up
Let's also not forget there's been 100 years of Fire Nation propaganda. The guy could've simply been a 'true believer', so to speak. Remember all the crap they were spouting at the school? Imagine 70 years of that in your head.
It almost sounds like something that happened in real life they are drawing a lot of inspiration from.
I never picked up on it when I was younger, but damn, that last season, watching it at 30, I can really see it all now, and it saddens me to think of everyone that went through it.
Well old ballbag did have a reason; he was a man living under fire nation oppression; and saw a situation where he could possibly benefit at the cost of outing a fellow villager. Was what he did morally the right thing? No. But if you're an elderly person(so you dont really have the ability to defend yourself or leave easily), living under oppressive rule where said oppressors regularly take your money, food, ect. is it really hard to believe that someone in that position wouldn't do something to get on the good side of their oppressors? Possibly trade that information for either money or food?
He should have been looking out for the youth and making sure their life would be better. Especially in an oppressive state. Old fuck is near death and should now be dead. Instead of showing gratitude he tries to get them killed.
He doesn't need food that bad. We've seen food vendors all over the city so while it is occupied we see no one struggling with food.
I was hoping you would say her heinous actions deserved execution. Sadly not. She kidnapped, imprisoned and tortured countless innocent civilians. They were starving and gaunt, shackled to the walls of a damp, dingy cave in near-total darkness 24/7 and there can't have been much ventilation in that subterranean chamber.
And General Iroh commited fucking war crimes. But no one is begging for his execution because he made tea and dispensed wisdom, right?
At least Hama had reasons to commit the acts she did. Could she have just made her way to the Water tribe? Yes.
I'm not saying she deserves no punishment, but in a show abour redemption i think they couldve easily reformed her character.
We also see that hama had felt no remorse and would have continued doing it. Iroh very clearly stopped, and most likely resents that portion of his life
To be honest that's exemplified pretty well with the Dai Li agents keeping an entire city brainwashed amidst a genocide and water tribe society being sexist
I wonder if theres rewards or compensation that the fire nation colonies give to earth nation citizens for ratting each other out. It also makes it easier for the Fire Nation since the enemy cant even trust themselves
Some people will simply defer to authority figures no matter what. Doesn't matter if they've invaded and deposed the original authorities, or if the authorities are corrupt or acting unethical. Some folks simply do whatever those in charge say. They're harmless in a well run society for the most part, but when corruption or authoritarianism takes root, these people become unwitting pawns of tyrants and the corrupt. Happened all over Nazi Germany, all sorts of people who'd otherwise be normal people did horrible things just because a guy with a fancy uniform told them to.
The worst part is, they're always there. There are people in your life who'd turn you in same as the old guy if the authorities told them to. Some of them you might even consider friends. Hell, you could even be that person. It's impossible to know.
There's that old movie Night Crossing about a family trying to escape from east berlin. Their neighbor is a nice old lady, but as soon as she starts to suspect they're trying to escape, she's snooping all over the place trying to figure out what they're up to so she can report them.
Or in the Chernobyl miniseries, when the meltdown happens and people are starting to freak out, the elderly town council member convinces the rest of the group to follow the government propoganda and help downplay everything so that they'll be rewarded.
It's these elderly characters that are so easy to rage at, because they're spending their last days trying to make things worse for everyone so that they can feel important or get rewarded.
I'd say a good example of people like that in modern American life is overly active HOA members. Kind of scary to think that the kind of person who harangues you about your grass length being half an inch too tall would probably turn you over to fascists in the right circumstances.
I’ve wondered if any Fire Nation forced a bender to intervene and then arrest those who didn’t report it.
The Nazis employed similar types of tests to make people paranoid and conditioned to be distrustful of seemingly helpful people.
Maybe the takeaway lesson is that it’s moral to do good, even to those who wronged you. Reminds me of when Zuko tried to save Zhao in the North Pole
Edit: I misremembered the order of events. I still stand by my point with Zuko though
Regardless of that, he really shouldn’t have backstabbed the guy who literally showed him kindness. I mean, what did he earn from this? Money? Fame? Some sick twisted recognition?
It's AtlA so he probably didn't get shanked in the middle of the night but he at the very least was shunned by the village for this.
His remaining years were probably miserable and lonely and it was more than he deserved
Headcanon: The colonel gives him no reward, or maybe 2-3 copper pieces. Haru's mom sneaks over to his house the next night and slits his throat. The Fire Nation soldiers don't give a fuck and let her get away with it.
I mean he was probably imprisoned, executed or lynched after the war for collaboration and it wouldn't surprise me if being crushed by a rock turns out to be a form of punishment in the Earth Kingdom.
I honestly loved this scene though. Real life society has had dudes like this in spades. WWII saw many amongst the Dutch and French collaborate with the Nazi party as a means to obtain status and comfort or in some sad cases, in order to survive. *Band of Brothers* has a great scene where the 101st rolls into Eindhoven and they see the locals shaving the heads of a bunch of women for collaborating with the Germans (He also notes they rounded up the men who collaborated as well and shot them) and at first it's played straight and you feel like the individuals being punished are getting what they deserved.
But when they encounter a woman on the side of the road later on with a shaved head carrying an infant, there is the sense that some of the people who collaborated were doing what they could to survive or help their loved ones survive, and not to obtain status (A bit of real life history on this one. There were some collaborators who tried to get on the good side of the Nazi's to help Jews escape or keep them shielded from the Nazis) .
So this dude here that ratted Haru out to the Fire Nation. Did he do so to gain favor with the Fire Nation and achieve some status, or did he report them because he was deathly terrified of what would happen if he didn't? The episode made it clear that the soldiers there were rounding up all earth benders and that the villagers were absolutely terrified of them. The dude could have been trying to curry favor, or he could have done so to keep himself from the wrath of the Fire Nation.
For what was a kids show, this scene showed a very interesting perspective on how war can affect a local populace, especially those under occupation.
Exactly, that’s why I love this scene and this old man as a character. He collaborates with the Fire Nation, but he’s also been living under the Fire Nation’s tyrannical rule for who knows how long. Historically and psychologically speaking, people in this position are conditioned to rat out “the enemy” out of fear and forced loyalty. He must be thinking that ratting out Haru will help him get on the good side of the soldiers, or that if he doesn’t it will somehow be discovered and he’ll get arrested as a traitor himself for not having turned Haru in. We see this impact of the Fire Nation’s oppression again in the same episode with how the earthbenders on the concentration camp ship have lost the will to fight back even though they could. They’ve been so beaten down that they are locked into the mentality of helplessness (and in their defense, it’s an understandable response). It takes Katara showing them they can fight back for them to step forward and fight. This old man is in a similar situation, having lived his long life in a never-ending war that now has taken over his home and threatened everyone if they don’t comply. So of course, like the earthbenders who comply with their imprisonment because they feel there’s no other choice, the old man complies with the Fire Nation soldiers because he feels there’s no other choice.
There’s [a great article by the Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-and-why-did-ordinary-people-across-europe-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-their-jewish-neighbors) on why civilians aided in the persecution of their Jewish neighbors and a lot of the reasoning can apply to this old man. Sometimes, the biggest tool of evil is manipulating the minds of innocents against themselves
So, to play Devil's advocate, what would happen if the fire nation discovered Haru's bending on their own? I think there's a fair chance they would punish the whole village for hiding him, even if the village didn't actually know. By turning Haru in, this guy deflected any blame from the town, potentially sparing a lot of people. The real villains are the fire nation, who put the villagers in an impossible situation.
Yeah, this guy's a piece of shit collaborator, but I do think it's very easy for people sitting at home, typing away on reddit, to talk shit about him, when they've never been in a situation like that before.
Hell, imagine someone else turns Haru in and reveals that they watched this old man get saved. How would the Fire Nation react knowing that this guy was actively hiding Haru from them?
I never considered that the town itself would have been punished. That's an interesting point.
I always thought he was likey forced into poverty by the fire nation and felt he had no other choice.
I was looking for this comment. People seem to forget that there was no avatar for a century, which gave the Fire Nation plenty of time to subjugate many locations, making it extremely hard for the people from those subjugated places to fight back. The fire nation likely eliminated or captured any members that resisted, which made it that much harder for civilians to want to fight back.
That's why in that episode it takes a great deal of convincing from Katara and Aang to get the Earthbenders to fight back, even after they receive the means to do so (the coal).
What the old man did sucks, for sure, but he's still a victim who felt like he was forced to turn on his own people to save himself and his fellow villagers from retaliation.
Technically speaking, Tenzin, Kya, Izumi, Lin and Suyin would all be in the generation that’s the Avatar equivalent of Baby Boomers because they were born after the War and there likely was a Baby Boom much like in real life. Boomer is a demographic, this guy is just a hating ass motherfucker. The term boomer being used to mean “mean old people” just feels dumb because it’s grouping an entire generation together.
"hew old man, why is the mine shaft totally gone?"
"it wasn't me, it was the earth bender!"
"you better point him out or you're the one going to the prison"
Something I really do appreciate is that a few episodes later they do the inverse of this with the old man that’s from the Fire Nation vouching for Sokka.
When I worked at Best Buy, I punched in my employee id for this little girl so she could buy some earbuds since she "Only had $10 her daddy gave her". Her mom took her to the car, came back in, went straight to the general manager and snitched on me. Didnt get into trouble since my manager was cool but man some people just straight up suck.
While I don't think what he did was right, I also can't but feel this is coming from a place of fear for this guy. He's an old man, and has probably seen a lot of horrors the fire nation can inflict on a civilian population. It would not surprise me at all to find out that as a kid he witnessed some truly horrible things because his friends or family hid fugitives from the fire nation and has thus done this out of self preservation brought on by fear.
I am not agreeing with his actions, but I think it's best we try to understand it. Esspically if you have spent you're entire life under the threat of death just for existing.
Yeah, collaborators are pretty shitty.
Also the *most* realistic scene in that episode, easily. Collaborators happen in pretty much any conflict, no matter *how* oppressive the occupying force is. People under oppression will often side with their oppressor, under the (incorrect) belief that if they suck up hard enough, they will deemed "one of the *good* ones".
Why blame a poor elderly person whose only fault is following the laws? The only mistake was not having Katara also arrested as Haru's accomplice. - *President of the Fan Club "Zhao the Best Admiral 4ever"*
Well look at the bright side, if this old man didn't betray Haru and he just stayed in his hometown, The team would not have gone to the prison and freed everyone.
My headcanon is that the guy believed if he didn't rat his entire village including himself would be burnt to the ground.
I chalk it up to fears of war. It's easy to say you'd do the right thing, but if the lives of everyone you love is at risk you're going to fall to the pressures of war.
But in reality, a large majority of elders in our current real-world timeline have their ideals resting in the past. My Grandparents 100% would've tattled and then saw themselves as the hero.
Eh. I feel bad for the guy.
Yeah, he sucks, but it's easy enough for us online to sit in judgement of him, having never been in a situation where you're under the heel of a fascist government.
For all we know, maybe he did this to protect his own family.
He’s also old. Imagine getting thrown in prison at that age. Imagine all the back breaking work you did your entire life to end up in a horrible jail with potentially no food. Of course he turned them in.
Parallels well with the old man Sokka defended from Jet that later backed him up when Sokka saved the village. Really shows the shades of grey on both sides.
Selling out your own people to your militant occupiers after they save your life is next level Stockholm syndrome.
Dude definitely ate too many paint chips growing up.
I get why one might photograph their TV instead trying to figure out how to generate a proper screen shot but ... this is unforgivable. **How someone looks at a television screen, then looks at their phone and can't be arsed to make the shapes match is a mystery.**
I'm pretty sure he was threatened by the soldier behind him (who threatened Haru's mom earlier). I doubt he was doing it because he wanted to.
That doesn't make it okay, it doesn't make it the right thing to do, but it's understandable in that context. Fuck this guy, but he had a reason: fear of getting himself or his shit burned.
Snitches get stitches. Would it be possible to make a cannon off-comic where he’s imprisoned at the end of the war and marked as a traitor to the 4 nations.
Perhaps a hot take, but I'm not that mad at this guy.
What he did was wrong, but this was a kid's show showing the surprisingly realistic reality of what life under a fascist regime is like.
The Fire Nation has strong fascist monarchy flavors going for it, with classic authoritarian strategies like pitting oppressed citizens against each other.
By severely punishing "traitors" and "rebels" and instilling a massive fear of being accused as such, these sorts of governments cause the people under their rule to constantly look to report each other as a means of "proving their loyalty". It's in the playbook right alongside confiscating all weapons (like Earthbending).
Exactly the sort of regime that might, say, create radical terrorists like Jet or Hama.
Hes kind of the opposite of the guy jet mugged
Good guys did act of kindness, old man from good nation returned it with an act of cruelty
Good guys did act of cruelty, old man from bad nation returned it with act of kindness
Yes he’s bad for betraying his saviors but also in a situation like this in real life it’s kind of understandable. If the fire nation found out about what happened and he didn’t say anything what would happen to him? His family? He’s an old man who probably has responsibility’s to his family. Not to some strangers even if they saved him.
Maybe someone else saw and if he didn’t report it and they did he’s fucked.
Just saying, I think it added a lot to the making of the world in the show. Just showing that it’s a complicated world and everyone has different priorities
Well, I’m referring to the totalitarian aspect so it’s the same thing from that perspective. He’s an asshole informant.
I watched some of ATLA with my mum (who grew up during communism) and she spotted some similarities between her childhood and what it’s like to live in the Fire Nation, particularly during the episode where Aang goes to school. The old man reminded me of how people would tell on their neighbours to the secret police, out of fear and also because of the brainwashing. People like that still exist, because that’s how they were brought up.
So fucking true tho. [Here's a story about a son's guilt for sending his mother to death.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/27/china-cultural-revolution-sons-guilt-zhang-hongping) Gotta save yourself by snitching on everyone else. Classic totalitarian regime.
read what? Communists in Mao's era was notorious for people betraying and outing each other. [Here's a story about a son's guilt for sending his mother to death.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/27/china-cultural-revolution-sons-guilt-zhang-hongping)
What’s the difference between someone who runs to the secret police because a Jew lives next door and someone who runs to the secret police because the neighbour may have said something bad about the Communist Party?
The idea of a collaborator to an authoritarian regime is the same in all contexts where that happened
But there's almost no similarities between the Fire Nation and any real world communists TBH
They seem very much based on Imperial Japan (with a bit of Nazi Germany thrown in for flavor)
Top ten villain of the show, but I like how they showed that it wasn’t just the Fire Nation that was bad and jerks existed all over the place. Old man who got mugged by Jet is a real one though.
Top villains- Azula- Ozai- Sparky Sparky Boom Man- and this old mf haha
Strongest Fire Navy admiral vs weakest boomer strapped for cash
It’s conqueror now, actualy
We all know Admiral Xiao would lose
IT'S ADMIRAL ZHAO
lol I’m glad someone noticed
conquerer Zhao actually
Admiral Xiao in more ways than one. Kudos to anyone who gets that joke.
You’re forgetting the guy who who killed kataras mum and then tried to sacrifice his own
Just practicing the law of equivalent exchange
Yon Rha. Fuck that guy, man shriveled the minute he wasn’t the strongest bender in the room.
Katara was cold af in that episode. Already respected her, but after that, I was like, "Do you need me to take the trash out?", "I can do the dishes", "I swept and mopped the floor, emptied the litter box, and made your favorite meal while you were out"
You know the old saying, never incur the wrath of a gentle soul.
"There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man." I wish we'd get the final book already. It's been 13 years...
When you got a lot of empathy, you know what it means to be actually mad
Because you’ve been down that road of emotional turmoil before and had to deal with it for so long that you can’t even imagine how someone would feel if they were to have the opportunity of having revenge, or justice. Whichever way you choose to look at it, it’s still such a beautiful thing that empathy is. But for someone who wears their heart on their sleeve, it can be deadly to others if they don’t know what they’re talking about
Definitely. What I was thinking is, for someone who can be so in tune with their emotions, you know the consequences of rage and revenge (she isnt always as in tune with her emotion, but thats part of her growth because the capacity is there). That's why Katara ultimately chooses to let him go, because he's obviously not even worth those consequences, that sacrificing of yourself and your ideals
She gets the closure that she needed for herself. Once she sees such a pathetic mess of a person and that would trade one life for another is just vile. Not worth wasting her time with, even if it took her until the last literal second to realize that. He was so scared like a child would be, probably more so. He was just so scared that he offered up his own mother’s life to her for a trade! Such a horrible person. Hope he gets fog of lost souls!
Exactly Zuko’s reaction as well lol
Lol, homie knew that she still didn't trust him fully because of his role in everything before his change of heart. He was like, "I'm coming correct for as long as I live... which may not be very long"
Sacrifice? He couldn't wait to end her nagging.
What about Yon Rah? Since he killed Katara’s mother
Wait do people think Ozai was a good villain?
Why is he bad?
There's lecherous and self serving individuals everywhere.from Hama to Long Feng to the bandits who captured Appa in the desert
Hama was a response to a horrible situation that went too far. Long Feng arguably thought what he eas doing was for the good of the city. This old ballbag literally ratted out the kid that rescued him because… *checks notes* there is no given reason… The Sand benders (that took Appa) are also massive pricks. Edit: For those who’re arguing that the old man isn’t that bad because the Fire Nation is oppressing him or that he was offered a reward. Everyone is being oppressed by the Fire Nation, even the Fire Nation. And him getting a reward doesn’t invalidate that he’s a walking pile of human-shaped shit who chose to take away a child’s freedom for personal gain. AFTER having his life saved by said child.
I’d assume the guy did it because he was living in a very oppressive society, and if they found out he lied and hid earthbenders from them, he would be punished very severely. He also could’ve been doing it for personal gain, as in I’ll give them up and get better treatment. Still selfish, but there’s a lot of reasons someone in that scenario might give them up
Let's also not forget there's been 100 years of Fire Nation propaganda. The guy could've simply been a 'true believer', so to speak. Remember all the crap they were spouting at the school? Imagine 70 years of that in your head.
It almost sounds like something that happened in real life they are drawing a lot of inspiration from. I never picked up on it when I was younger, but damn, that last season, watching it at 30, I can really see it all now, and it saddens me to think of everyone that went through it.
Well old ballbag did have a reason; he was a man living under fire nation oppression; and saw a situation where he could possibly benefit at the cost of outing a fellow villager. Was what he did morally the right thing? No. But if you're an elderly person(so you dont really have the ability to defend yourself or leave easily), living under oppressive rule where said oppressors regularly take your money, food, ect. is it really hard to believe that someone in that position wouldn't do something to get on the good side of their oppressors? Possibly trade that information for either money or food?
He should have been looking out for the youth and making sure their life would be better. Especially in an oppressive state. Old fuck is near death and should now be dead. Instead of showing gratitude he tries to get them killed. He doesn't need food that bad. We've seen food vendors all over the city so while it is occupied we see no one struggling with food.
Wasn't he given money?
Yeah Hama was a victim of torture and genocide
My hot take is Hama didn't deserve prison again. They should've released her after the war.
I was hoping you would say her heinous actions deserved execution. Sadly not. She kidnapped, imprisoned and tortured countless innocent civilians. They were starving and gaunt, shackled to the walls of a damp, dingy cave in near-total darkness 24/7 and there can't have been much ventilation in that subterranean chamber.
And General Iroh commited fucking war crimes. But no one is begging for his execution because he made tea and dispensed wisdom, right? At least Hama had reasons to commit the acts she did. Could she have just made her way to the Water tribe? Yes. I'm not saying she deserves no punishment, but in a show abour redemption i think they couldve easily reformed her character.
Iroh wanted to change. Hama showed no such desire.
She tortured and possibly murdered numerous civilians bruh
So did Iroh. Where ya pitchforks for him? She deserved redemption too.
We also see that hama had felt no remorse and would have continued doing it. Iroh very clearly stopped, and most likely resents that portion of his life
I always get the two confused and on a rewatch i keep expecting that man to be a huge dick. I’m always wrong. I’m old man racist
The old man was an assassin!
I didn’t see any knife!
Very realistic. Collaborators always pop up in occupied territories and they are the worst of the worst.
To be honest that's exemplified pretty well with the Dai Li agents keeping an entire city brainwashed amidst a genocide and water tribe society being sexist
I've heard a theory that the old guy jet mugged is aangs friend kuzon and I like that
I wonder if theres rewards or compensation that the fire nation colonies give to earth nation citizens for ratting each other out. It also makes it easier for the Fire Nation since the enemy cant even trust themselves
>It also makes it easier for the Fire Nation since the enemy cant even trust themselves yea i wonder where i saw that before...
It’s the [number 44 jersey that is banned](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna145977) in Germonies.
Some people will simply defer to authority figures no matter what. Doesn't matter if they've invaded and deposed the original authorities, or if the authorities are corrupt or acting unethical. Some folks simply do whatever those in charge say. They're harmless in a well run society for the most part, but when corruption or authoritarianism takes root, these people become unwitting pawns of tyrants and the corrupt. Happened all over Nazi Germany, all sorts of people who'd otherwise be normal people did horrible things just because a guy with a fancy uniform told them to. The worst part is, they're always there. There are people in your life who'd turn you in same as the old guy if the authorities told them to. Some of them you might even consider friends. Hell, you could even be that person. It's impossible to know.
There's that old movie Night Crossing about a family trying to escape from east berlin. Their neighbor is a nice old lady, but as soon as she starts to suspect they're trying to escape, she's snooping all over the place trying to figure out what they're up to so she can report them. Or in the Chernobyl miniseries, when the meltdown happens and people are starting to freak out, the elderly town council member convinces the rest of the group to follow the government propoganda and help downplay everything so that they'll be rewarded. It's these elderly characters that are so easy to rage at, because they're spending their last days trying to make things worse for everyone so that they can feel important or get rewarded.
I'd say a good example of people like that in modern American life is overly active HOA members. Kind of scary to think that the kind of person who harangues you about your grass length being half an inch too tall would probably turn you over to fascists in the right circumstances.
I’ve wondered if any Fire Nation forced a bender to intervene and then arrest those who didn’t report it. The Nazis employed similar types of tests to make people paranoid and conditioned to be distrustful of seemingly helpful people.
Hate this toad with a passion. He really didn’t deserved to be saved by Haru at all.
He is a nice contrast to the old guy in Jet
Yes! Thank you! I love those contrasts in the series. I never catched them as a kid, but now I understand so much better.
Also shitty Avatar Day town vs Footloose Fire Nation kids.
Maybe the takeaway lesson is that it’s moral to do good, even to those who wronged you. Reminds me of when Zuko tried to save Zhao in the North Pole Edit: I misremembered the order of events. I still stand by my point with Zuko though
Given how old and scrawny he is, he probably didn’t have much time left anyways. So Haru leaving him to die would’ve been an act of mercy.
Regardless of that, he really shouldn’t have backstabbed the guy who literally showed him kindness. I mean, what did he earn from this? Money? Fame? Some sick twisted recognition?
In his mind, being a fire nation bootlicker is a reward in and of itself
Authoritarian boot lickers will always be wild people.
If anything, Haru could have just killed him as a mercy
I too love murdering old people as an act of kindness
The village probably punished him, especially during war time the consequence could be steep
It's AtlA so he probably didn't get shanked in the middle of the night but he at the very least was shunned by the village for this. His remaining years were probably miserable and lonely and it was more than he deserved
I don't know, the Kyoshi novels are also Avatar And those get real fucking dark
Yangchen also
I agree, this guy was probably imprisoned or lynched for collaboration.
Headcanon: He gets squished by a rock later.
Headcanon: The colonel gives him no reward, or maybe 2-3 copper pieces. Haru's mom sneaks over to his house the next night and slits his throat. The Fire Nation soldiers don't give a fuck and let her get away with it.
I like the rock better because symbolism. But that’s good too.
Haru's mom bashes his head in with a rock
Headcanon: his head gets shot out of a canon
Headcanon: he died of the bubonic plague
Pentapox!
I mean he was probably imprisoned, executed or lynched after the war for collaboration and it wouldn't surprise me if being crushed by a rock turns out to be a form of punishment in the Earth Kingdom.
I honestly loved this scene though. Real life society has had dudes like this in spades. WWII saw many amongst the Dutch and French collaborate with the Nazi party as a means to obtain status and comfort or in some sad cases, in order to survive. *Band of Brothers* has a great scene where the 101st rolls into Eindhoven and they see the locals shaving the heads of a bunch of women for collaborating with the Germans (He also notes they rounded up the men who collaborated as well and shot them) and at first it's played straight and you feel like the individuals being punished are getting what they deserved. But when they encounter a woman on the side of the road later on with a shaved head carrying an infant, there is the sense that some of the people who collaborated were doing what they could to survive or help their loved ones survive, and not to obtain status (A bit of real life history on this one. There were some collaborators who tried to get on the good side of the Nazi's to help Jews escape or keep them shielded from the Nazis) . So this dude here that ratted Haru out to the Fire Nation. Did he do so to gain favor with the Fire Nation and achieve some status, or did he report them because he was deathly terrified of what would happen if he didn't? The episode made it clear that the soldiers there were rounding up all earth benders and that the villagers were absolutely terrified of them. The dude could have been trying to curry favor, or he could have done so to keep himself from the wrath of the Fire Nation. For what was a kids show, this scene showed a very interesting perspective on how war can affect a local populace, especially those under occupation.
Exactly, that’s why I love this scene and this old man as a character. He collaborates with the Fire Nation, but he’s also been living under the Fire Nation’s tyrannical rule for who knows how long. Historically and psychologically speaking, people in this position are conditioned to rat out “the enemy” out of fear and forced loyalty. He must be thinking that ratting out Haru will help him get on the good side of the soldiers, or that if he doesn’t it will somehow be discovered and he’ll get arrested as a traitor himself for not having turned Haru in. We see this impact of the Fire Nation’s oppression again in the same episode with how the earthbenders on the concentration camp ship have lost the will to fight back even though they could. They’ve been so beaten down that they are locked into the mentality of helplessness (and in their defense, it’s an understandable response). It takes Katara showing them they can fight back for them to step forward and fight. This old man is in a similar situation, having lived his long life in a never-ending war that now has taken over his home and threatened everyone if they don’t comply. So of course, like the earthbenders who comply with their imprisonment because they feel there’s no other choice, the old man complies with the Fire Nation soldiers because he feels there’s no other choice. There’s [a great article by the Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-and-why-did-ordinary-people-across-europe-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-their-jewish-neighbors) on why civilians aided in the persecution of their Jewish neighbors and a lot of the reasoning can apply to this old man. Sometimes, the biggest tool of evil is manipulating the minds of innocents against themselves
True, a lot of Dutch mayors and civil servents were replaced by members of the NSB (the Dutch national socialist party) and other Nazi sympathisers.
So, to play Devil's advocate, what would happen if the fire nation discovered Haru's bending on their own? I think there's a fair chance they would punish the whole village for hiding him, even if the village didn't actually know. By turning Haru in, this guy deflected any blame from the town, potentially sparing a lot of people. The real villains are the fire nation, who put the villagers in an impossible situation.
Yeah, this guy's a piece of shit collaborator, but I do think it's very easy for people sitting at home, typing away on reddit, to talk shit about him, when they've never been in a situation like that before.
Hell, imagine someone else turns Haru in and reveals that they watched this old man get saved. How would the Fire Nation react knowing that this guy was actively hiding Haru from them?
I never considered that the town itself would have been punished. That's an interesting point. I always thought he was likey forced into poverty by the fire nation and felt he had no other choice.
I was looking for this comment. People seem to forget that there was no avatar for a century, which gave the Fire Nation plenty of time to subjugate many locations, making it extremely hard for the people from those subjugated places to fight back. The fire nation likely eliminated or captured any members that resisted, which made it that much harder for civilians to want to fight back. That's why in that episode it takes a great deal of convincing from Katara and Aang to get the Earthbenders to fight back, even after they receive the means to do so (the coal). What the old man did sucks, for sure, but he's still a victim who felt like he was forced to turn on his own people to save himself and his fellow villagers from retaliation.
Are you watching it on the Wii
Nah the Wii is just always on standby in case we wanna play Mario Party 6, double dash, or melee haha
Does Wii Netflix still work?
He's afraid. More of a show of how badly the fire nation has warped people's morals out of fear.
He’s def a boomer
Technically speaking, Tenzin, Kya, Izumi, Lin and Suyin would all be in the generation that’s the Avatar equivalent of Baby Boomers because they were born after the War and there likely was a Baby Boom much like in real life. Boomer is a demographic, this guy is just a hating ass motherfucker. The term boomer being used to mean “mean old people” just feels dumb because it’s grouping an entire generation together.
Honestly I think this is a great example of how well the Fire Nation's propaganda and fear mongering was
"hew old man, why is the mine shaft totally gone?" "it wasn't me, it was the earth bender!" "you better point him out or you're the one going to the prison"
Collaborators don't generally fare well after the occupation regime has collapsed
“We are shaving their heads because they collaborated with the Germans. They’re better off than the men. They are being taken away and shot.”
Something I really do appreciate is that a few episodes later they do the inverse of this with the old man that’s from the Fire Nation vouching for Sokka.
When I worked at Best Buy, I punched in my employee id for this little girl so she could buy some earbuds since she "Only had $10 her daddy gave her". Her mom took her to the car, came back in, went straight to the general manager and snitched on me. Didnt get into trouble since my manager was cool but man some people just straight up suck.
This guy is free karma anytime he's posted Upvoted because he deserves the hate
if I could pin a comment ^^^
While I don't think what he did was right, I also can't but feel this is coming from a place of fear for this guy. He's an old man, and has probably seen a lot of horrors the fire nation can inflict on a civilian population. It would not surprise me at all to find out that as a kid he witnessed some truly horrible things because his friends or family hid fugitives from the fire nation and has thus done this out of self preservation brought on by fear. I am not agreeing with his actions, but I think it's best we try to understand it. Esspically if you have spent you're entire life under the threat of death just for existing.
Yeah, collaborators are pretty shitty. Also the *most* realistic scene in that episode, easily. Collaborators happen in pretty much any conflict, no matter *how* oppressive the occupying force is. People under oppression will often side with their oppressor, under the (incorrect) belief that if they suck up hard enough, they will deemed "one of the *good* ones".
If you all really want to get pissed off, read about [Afiko the Betrayer](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Afiko) from the old Avatar TCG.
You ever had that old, crusty, nosy, bitter neighbor that calls the cops/bylaws for every little thing you do? He is that neighbor.
Why blame a poor elderly person whose only fault is following the laws? The only mistake was not having Katara also arrested as Haru's accomplice. - *President of the Fan Club "Zhao the Best Admiral 4ever"*
Snitches end up in ditches
When I was a kid I thought he was a fire nation plant to find earth benders
This is why your children don’t visit you, old man. This, and what you did to their mothers…
I hear Mai royally sucks too! 😉
Are you an earthbender cause that comment has me bricked up
Well look at the bright side, if this old man didn't betray Haru and he just stayed in his hometown, The team would not have gone to the prison and freed everyone.
Send him to the Shadow realm
More evil than Ozai
Didn’t even snitch him for money. He just did it because he a hater
Fully agree
i understand him. He knew he was a side character, so he used his screen time the most he can.
If I was him I'd come back home and crush him with a rock
Imagine how the story would have been if this guy and the dude mugged by jet had been switched.
you would do the same if a superpowered man who can burn you alive asked you.
Asked? No one asked him anything he went and ratted.
My headcanon is that the guy believed if he didn't rat his entire village including himself would be burnt to the ground. I chalk it up to fears of war. It's easy to say you'd do the right thing, but if the lives of everyone you love is at risk you're going to fall to the pressures of war. But in reality, a large majority of elders in our current real-world timeline have their ideals resting in the past. My Grandparents 100% would've tattled and then saw themselves as the hero.
Eh. I feel bad for the guy. Yeah, he sucks, but it's easy enough for us online to sit in judgement of him, having never been in a situation where you're under the heel of a fascist government. For all we know, maybe he did this to protect his own family.
He’s also old. Imagine getting thrown in prison at that age. Imagine all the back breaking work you did your entire life to end up in a horrible jail with potentially no food. Of course he turned them in.
Nuts to that guy!
He'll get his. I'm pretty sure the villagers don't like snitches.
Snitches get stitches.
Parallels well with the old man Sokka defended from Jet that later backed him up when Sokka saved the village. Really shows the shades of grey on both sides.
Selling out your own people to your militant occupiers after they save your life is next level Stockholm syndrome. Dude definitely ate too many paint chips growing up.
ugh him
Vertical photo of horizontal screen
Collaborators will be shaved….oh, well never mind.
Maybe the first time I ever said “fuck this dude”
It doesn't get posted *enough* lmao, this dude is the absolute WORST.
Wait are you still using a wii for Netflix? That's wild
I get why one might photograph their TV instead trying to figure out how to generate a proper screen shot but ... this is unforgivable. **How someone looks at a television screen, then looks at their phone and can't be arsed to make the shapes match is a mystery.**
More hated than Ozai, that is my top 1 character that i hate.
Even boomers there suck lol
worst thing you can be is a rat
I'm pretty sure he was threatened by the soldier behind him (who threatened Haru's mom earlier). I doubt he was doing it because he wanted to. That doesn't make it okay, it doesn't make it the right thing to do, but it's understandable in that context. Fuck this guy, but he had a reason: fear of getting himself or his shit burned.
Nah they even made his eyes visibly angry. He’s enjoying this role.
If this was Pokemon, he'd be Mindy. Fuck this guy.
Perhaps he needed the money fo the reward for his poor family
Snitches get stitches, blud
im not saying that this man made me stereotype old people, but man he didnt do em any favors.
I MET THIS GUY, absolute rat.
Thank you for saving me. Unfortunately I have to turn you in to the fire nations for possibly no reason but money.
Just say you hate elders
Haru
The wii in the pic is probably older than that old man
Snitches get stitches. Would it be possible to make a cannon off-comic where he’s imprisoned at the end of the war and marked as a traitor to the 4 nations.
Even the Fire Nation guy has a face that says "Damn, this guy sucks."
haru is a better person than me, i would’ve sent a pebble through his throat and then danced on him as he died before being taken away to prison
Hey a Wii!
At least he’s dead in Korra. Unless he’s in the spirit world…
Nice Nintendo Wii
aang shoulda kicked his ass just like he did ozai’s
White Wii chilling under the tv that’s playing ATLA on Netflix is reminding me of better times 😢
Omg I wished horrible things on this pos
Pardon my language but that old man’s a bitch 💀
Dude so old he could die any fucking day.
Yeah Haru came back from the prison with a heavy Boulder for this man.
All my homies hate that old man!
Fuck that guy!
I swear. Dude is a snake fr
Perhaps a hot take, but I'm not that mad at this guy. What he did was wrong, but this was a kid's show showing the surprisingly realistic reality of what life under a fascist regime is like. The Fire Nation has strong fascist monarchy flavors going for it, with classic authoritarian strategies like pitting oppressed citizens against each other. By severely punishing "traitors" and "rebels" and instilling a massive fear of being accused as such, these sorts of governments cause the people under their rule to constantly look to report each other as a means of "proving their loyalty". It's in the playbook right alongside confiscating all weapons (like Earthbending). Exactly the sort of regime that might, say, create radical terrorists like Jet or Hama.
today is the 4th time Im getting a notification for this post lol, reddit really wants to keep reminding me how much this guy sucks
With his 4 teeth 😡
Hes kind of the opposite of the guy jet mugged Good guys did act of kindness, old man from good nation returned it with an act of cruelty Good guys did act of cruelty, old man from bad nation returned it with act of kindness
Yes he’s bad for betraying his saviors but also in a situation like this in real life it’s kind of understandable. If the fire nation found out about what happened and he didn’t say anything what would happen to him? His family? He’s an old man who probably has responsibility’s to his family. Not to some strangers even if they saved him. Maybe someone else saw and if he didn’t report it and they did he’s fucked. Just saying, I think it added a lot to the making of the world in the show. Just showing that it’s a complicated world and everyone has different priorities
Really should have found that old man and thrown him back into that dich.
*sucks royalty. Seriously though, everyone that pulls a move like this in the show has kind of motivation BUT THIS GUY WHAT THE FUCK.
Uncle Tom lol
Based Wii user
Avatar extra: Snitches gets stitches, by very angry earthbending daddies.
Person of no quality can only excel at servility.
Honorable mention to this old guy too. [https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Old\_Sweepy](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Sweepy)
[Same vibe.](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Basso)
Worst civilian in fiction .
Up there with Ozai fr fr
Gosh darn communist geezer
If anything he would be a fascist sympathizer, considering the Fire Nation at the time was extremely similar to the Nazis.
Well, I’m referring to the totalitarian aspect so it’s the same thing from that perspective. He’s an asshole informant. I watched some of ATLA with my mum (who grew up during communism) and she spotted some similarities between her childhood and what it’s like to live in the Fire Nation, particularly during the episode where Aang goes to school. The old man reminded me of how people would tell on their neighbours to the secret police, out of fear and also because of the brainwashing. People like that still exist, because that’s how they were brought up.
So fucking true tho. [Here's a story about a son's guilt for sending his mother to death.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/27/china-cultural-revolution-sons-guilt-zhang-hongping) Gotta save yourself by snitching on everyone else. Classic totalitarian regime.
That’s what I’m talking about! It’s horrible.. Idk why people disagree
Probably because they think it's just "western propaganda".
[удалено]
read what? Communists in Mao's era was notorious for people betraying and outing each other. [Here's a story about a son's guilt for sending his mother to death.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/27/china-cultural-revolution-sons-guilt-zhang-hongping)
What did I say wrong lol That’s the type of person he reminds me of 🤷♂️
More like Nazi or Imperial Japanese collaborator TBH
What’s the difference between someone who runs to the secret police because a Jew lives next door and someone who runs to the secret police because the neighbour may have said something bad about the Communist Party?
The idea of a collaborator to an authoritarian regime is the same in all contexts where that happened But there's almost no similarities between the Fire Nation and any real world communists TBH They seem very much based on Imperial Japan (with a bit of Nazi Germany thrown in for flavor)
I did not mean to imply that the Fire Nation is a explicitly based on the communists, just what this character in particular makes me think of