Putting Trump in office in 2016 really was a driving factor. It gave 3 more conservative SC Judges and appointed numerous conservative judges in lower courts. Considering malaise about 2016 contributed to his win, perhaps we should vote for a president that can continue to appoint more liberal justices and judges. Democrats majority can work to codify women’s rights that republicans are already working to take away birth control. The damage was done in 2016, now we have to hold back further destruction until we are able to get our rights back.
When Trump put forth his first SCOTUS nomination, we went out to protest, members of Congress and the Senate joined us, singing for a few minutes. The next days the bastards went and voted for the motherfucker. A deliberately useless party unless its time to fund more dead people overseas.
Not a defender of Obama by any means but he only had a Democratic house and Senate his first 2 years in office and that majority was comprised of a lot of anti-choice Democrats who would not have voted to codify Roe under any circumstances.
It wasn’t two years, it was a few months. Franken wasn’t seated for several months due to a recount; Kennedy was out with cancer, then a Republican won his seat for the rest of his term.
They had 59 seats (a clear majority) for 2 years and 60 seats for a few months. And they knew ahead of time that they will have 60 seats.
If 59/60 seats is not enough to pass good policy (that they supposedly want), how will they be able to campaign on doing good stuff when 59 Senate seats is probably permanently out of reach?
You’re right, you shouldn’t defend him. There was a point where he had the super majority needed to codify Roe (which was also considered one of the most productive congresses in American history), but didn’t because “ passing a law guaranteeing those rights was not his top priority.” He fumbled HARD on abortion rights. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/
The thing is you're assuming that if Obama had "made it a priority" (whatever that even means) it would've gotten passed. It really wouldn't have. Look at the Democrats in the senate who constituted a majority at the time. It was people like Ben Nelson and in the House it was people like Bart Stupak. They would never have voted to codify Roe. Obama chose not to make it a priority because he didn't have the votes to begin with.
Again, I'm not here to defend Obama. His record on judicial nominees was terrible. But the idea that he could've codified Roe is baseless based on what the votes were in congress.
Dems didn't control the house for the vast majority of his presidency.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/02/03/single-party-control-in-washington-is-common-at-the-beginning-of-a-new-presidency-but-tends-not-to-last-long/
There may be things you don’t like about this presidency, but P2025 is literally *not* happening with this presidency.
That’s what they are doing to stop it. Literally not doing it.
There is a lot more that can be done to prevent P2025, other than not doing it. You can make it so that felons cannot run for president, you can enshrine protections on minority rights etc
They don't need 3/5 majority to change the rule. The rule's already been changed multiple times.
The "nuclear option" exists, that's how.
Way it works takes advantage of the following procedural loophole allowing unique interpretations of rules to become precedent:
* Majority leader announces a point of order that cloture to debate now requires a simple majority vote
* Presiding officer will disagree, as this is a new interpretation and goes against the rules
* Objection is overturned on appeal by a simple majority vote
* Senate rules are now changed
This is exactly what Reid did to get around McConnell's filibustering of Obama's appointments, but he kept the rule in place for Supreme Court nominees. McConnell used the nuclear option to remove the limit for the Supreme Court so they could get Gorsuch on the bench in 2017.
Because they're not actually interested in seriously opposing the Republicans or taking any action to actually address the crises we face since that would necessarily require directly confronting capital. Remember the parliamentarian? Democrats will always find some convenient excuse of decorum or proper procedure as to why they can't actually do anything.
>You can make it so that felons cannot run for president
You can't really be serious here?
The requirements for being (or not being) president are spelled out, specifically, in the Constitution. You know this, right?
What you're suggesting would require amending the Constitution. Unlike the filibuster, which is a made up rule in the Senate, amending the Constitution actually *requires* 2/3 majority in both houses.
How exactly is that going to happen?
A stronger majority in congress would certainly help. Right now neither side can do what they really want and instead just stop the other side from doing dumb stuff.
It's not that simple. The border EO is just one example of how the Dems facilitate a rightward shift the make inevitable politicians like Trump and policies like the 2025 project. They do it all the time. You can say that a dem in office won't do the thing a Republican will, but you can't say that there isn't a larger shift happening, of which the Dems are a part, towards more extreme right wing politics. Again, a genocide is staring us in the face, an obvious and extreme example of this.
The Biden presidency merely postpones the republican takeover. Democrats are unwilling to do anything lasting to prevent it. We’ll always be less than 4 years away from absolute catastrophe, as Democrats concede further on immigration, foreign policy, and corporate greed.
OP is suggesting we not even try to postpone it. They’re not even offering a better alternative, no matter how unrealistic. Be skeptical of these people. The alternative they are offering is Republican fascism.
It appears that will always be the case. Vote blue no matter who because of Republican fascism. No real incentive for Dems to fight for the issues impacting us in the working class or to support Palestine.
Except the republicans are running out of money and trump is running out of time. Assuming he even lives to the next election he would have spent the time between 2024 and 2028 in courtroom after courtroom as his myriad of criminal cases went forward. At best he doesn’t go to prison and he runs again in 2028 with a basically bankrupt Republican Party. Ideally he goes to jail or dies and the republicans never financially or electorally recover from his cult never accepting anyone else.
What are they doing to stop it???
*Stand by as women rights to bodily autonomy protection gone*
*approved most oil contracts on federal land ever*
*Book banned all over*
Oh, that's right! More money for land grab and bombing kids for a foreign government.
Dissolution of international law base order to excuse genocide
They could’ve codified abortion rights legally. They could’ve added seats to the SC. They didn’t do either because people kept saying that the SC wouldn’t overturn Roe despite the overt acknowledgment by conservatives about that being the exact plan.
Biden ran on the promise of no more drilling on federal land. The very first thing he did was approve the willow project. Then, he went on to approve more oil contracts than the Trump administration. The policy of keeping promises to the voter base is a start.
The very first thing? You mean 2 years later after everyone was giving him shit about gas prices? Crazy how we had to go so far off the topic on the thread to find something to disapprove, and disapprove of we should, but fucking lol that this is some kind of defense of a protest vote when he also passed the biggest climate legislation in the countries history.
It's also missing some major context - per Manchin's add-ons to get IRA passed, the law requires a set number of offshore oil and gas leases before it can offer offshore wind leases.
RESPONSE TO ORIGINAL POST AND THE THREAD:
"I'll give up even more of my rights and freedoms, get even less from the Government, and give my tax dollars to those even richer than me... THAT'LL teach the Democrats to be more progressive whenever they next are in power!"
Instead of the actual reality in which the Democratic Party moved further left because then-US Senator Barack Obama was ostensibly more to 'the Left' than then-US Senator Hillary Clinton.
And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of US Senator Bernie Sanders doing so well in the 2016 Democratic Primaries.
And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of The Squad.
And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of how well US Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren did in 2020.
At least in rhetoric, because of progressives, POTUS Donald Trump has to pretend he wants to protect Social Security and Medicare, wants something even better than the Affordable Care Act, and that he supports unions. That's a far cry from those like Paul Ryan.
Progressives want progressives to have more power in politics. Get progressives to have more power in politics.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=1289123714#gid=1289123714](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=1289123714#gid=1289123714)
The US House of Representatives on the Democratic side is far more progressive since 2019 than it was before.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=0#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=0#gid=0)
The US Senate needs to move more (and so does the US House).
At least vote down-ballot. And vote for POTUS Joe Biden. Be strategic regarding giving time and/or money to candidates. But voting? In the general elections, generally vote Democrat.
Very well said.
This idea that Democrats will suddenly become progressive if progressives stop voting for them makes zero sense, so frustrating to see it pop up here.
In fact, the proposition that we shouldn’t vote for Dems so that we can progressively virtue signal seems like a useful argument for Russian bots / sock accounts that are known to exist on social media (in droves).
Not saying OP is one, but ‘let’s cut off our nose to spite our face’ arguments that benefit Russia tend to get most traction with those accounts.
I didn't make them, but I saved the link.
They are here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1asap3r/congressional\_democrat\_leftist\_tracker/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1asap3r/congressional_democrat_leftist_tracker/)
Spread them around, if you want. More people should know about the voting records of the Democrats in the US House of Representatives and in the US Senate.
I will certainly share them, although I'm curious about the methodology. I'm Canadian so they aren't directly useful to me, but I'm suddenly considering stealing the concept for my own government.
Stupid take. Show me the federal agencies which have been filled with political appointments designed to destroy them from the inside out.
How do you stop a plan which requires Republicans to be in power in any way other than *winning the election against Republicans*??? Which you definitely won’t do by not voting for democrats.
Yeah... came here to say this. Project 2025 is designed with a willing GOP president appointing folks to key governmental positions. There's nothing to "stop" when it isn't in action.
The goal is stated in their "Mandate for Leadership" white paper (lengthy one). Find it here (using archive.org to not give them website hit creds, but you'll find it on their site if you want): https://web.archive.org/web/20240413020321/https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
Some points sound nuanced and perhaps not new ("blah blah, we hate the Department of Education, we should get rid of it" sorta conservative talking points) but this is a hard-right think tank laying blueprints with many in Trump's orbit (and likely to be appointees or advisors) restating points from this. This isn't them saying things that get conservatives all hot and horny—it is actual intellectual justification and order of operations for trying to rid much of the US government and push things down to the states (where many will be more than happy to steer far from the norms and protections established now).
So a Trump presidency and a Trump-backing congress can enact this. Sure, people will say that there is always the filibuster for Dems, but a likely nuclear option will do away with that.
Am I being gaslighted?
I thought Project 2025 was a plan to fast track a ton of Trump sycophants and yes men into all levels of government in order to pass Republican agendas with little to no resistance were Trump to get reelected. It’s basically the same as him being given a list of judges from the Heritage Foundation for him to rubber stamp, but done on a wide scale.
The only thing that can be done to prevent it is not letting Trump to get reelected. Jesus fucking Christ. We’ve already seen the damage done by Trump’s court appointments - not just Roe at the SCOTUS level, but how his appointed judges have stalled his trials.
This isn’t “concern trolling”; a second Trump term would be disastrous. He barely got anything done in his first term because he’s completely incompetent, but Project 2025 would effectively make him a figurehead while far right groups are passing laws that would keep them in power for the next century.
There’s nothing Democrats can do about it now because it hasn’t happened. (I mean, there are things they could try to do, but won’t; if Trump is reelected it’s going to be a blatant power grab and there won’t be anything to be done at that point).
Yea, that's basically what it is *except* that it's not just if Trump gets elected. It's if ANY republican gets elected...unfortunately this likely means it'll be an ongoing fear whenever there's a chance a republican will hold the seat of the president.
What, so you say referring to Project 2025 is the actual concern trolling?
So don't try to stop bad stuff from happening in the USA, got it. /s
Love the condescension by the way.
My take from this is that we shouldn’t be shaming voters who aren’t encouraged enough to vote blue, we should be shaming the Democrats who are actually in power and can actually make a difference for not stopping project 2025.
Spoiler: it doesn't.
Just as "both sides" nonsense only ever attacks liberals and leftists, "don't vote for Biden" advocates don't actually care about a second Trump term because they're tankies or Russian trolls.
This isn’t a succinct or perfect response by any means.
Project 2025 requires the Rs to hold the executive. Dems being in place in itself stops Project2025.
Of course, they should do more in power than just hold the line (or permit only incremental conservative moves), including making themselves more palatable to voters by making genuine progressive reforms, but they are directly blocking Project2025 as it is.
Before you talk about Project 2025, it might be helpful to know what it is lmao. It is essentially impossible without all 3 branches being controlled by the Republicans. If you're really concerned about P2025, vote Democrat, if you just don't think it's a big deal, dont.
The entirety of P2025 rests on the interpretation the executive powers clause in the constitution. They only need the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution in the way the Executive Branch thinks they should.
Project 2025 is based around unitary executive theory, which means two things - 1) Biden’s mere presence in the White House is absolutely a deterrent to them trying to carry it out, since the Heritage Foundation absolutely doesn’t want to give a Democratic president that kind of power, and 2) the only actions Dems COULD conceivably take to prevent it are packing the Supreme Court (which Republicans would IMMEDIATELY use if that option was on the table) or deliberately transferring the power of executive orders away from the executive branch back to the legislature, which would give Republicans the power to easily filibuster the entire federal government into a shutdown.
Have people forgotten that the Dems don’t have a majority in both houses of Congress? The house is a mess of GOP control and they would nuke any protections to slow project 2025. The Senate stupidity requires 60 votes to pass anything and the Dems only have a razor thin majority there. And the Court will quickly be used to strike down anything that would also slow project 2025. The only was to change that is to keep the White House, flip the house, and get a bigger majority in the senate.
Do look at the game of whack a mole the GOP have done with Student Load Forgiveness. They are using the levers of control their voters gave them.
We all need to do our part to deliver votes while we still can.
liberals in 2023: vote for Biden or brown people will be deported!
liberals in 2024: we will reach across the aisle so that we can more easily deport brown people
"democrats" are not the driving force of cop cities. City politics are often wonkier than the party the people end up belonging to. Conservatives are still the driving force of cop cities.
I also like that it's the fault of people who have natural human empathy to seeing infants and children being starved to death or burned alive to death,
Instead of the the fault of the person who is not only helping this happen, but sanitizing the results.
Since it's Biden, people just trust he's doing everything possible even though he's shown time and time again that he views the Palestinians and Lebanese as subhumans. 9 people have resigned so far from his administration, one including one person who said the Biden admin is straight up lying by saying that Israel is not hindering aid, and another Jewish life long Israel advocate, who said Biden 'is making Jews the face of the American warmachine".
In a 1982 bombing that Reagan described as a holocoust after seeing pictures of dead children including a mutilated baby, he ordered Israel to stop the bombing. When the then Israeli PM was being grilled by the senate armed forced committee, Biden has the bombings should have continued, even if meant killing more women and children. Biden specifically asked for the bombings of more women and children, whose mutilated imaged of caused rage on Reagan.
Another time when Biden sabotaged and humiliated his old boss Obama to curry favor with the right wing genocidal Netanyahu's plan to murder Palestinians in the West Bank.
> In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.”
>
> Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave [Netanyahu] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added.
Biden has a history that he is repeating right now. He has the power to not only do the right thing regarding the Palestinians, but also not risking the US to a Trump presidency and project 2025. But the divided left is somehow not the fault of the person who is enabling, supporting, and sanitizing the genocide. It's instead people who are having very human reactions to seeing infants and children being burned alive and starved to death.
But I don't blame thing, it'll work. Like how they blamed the progressives for Hillary's lose, even though every single study showed that the progressives turned out in levels that were higher than 2012, and on par with 2008. That's the narrative, even though it was the swing voters Hillary lost, the lost both the Bush-Obama voters and the McCain-Obama voters.
And another funny thing is that they're focused on the progressives voting even though historically speaking, they're going to come out for Biden. At the end of the Trump, Biden is running against Trump. But they're not going to volunteer and work for Biden. The Biden admin literally has hundreds of positions open, unprecedented, and concerning in a country with very low turnouts , the ground game is essential.
glad OP is getting dunked on here, because wtaf is this accelerationist bullshit? do you have a pragmatic bone in your body? how do you even listen to the program if you disagree with the hosts on such a fundamental level
You could prevent 2025 by getting me to vote for you. The past 8 months have been “no, we don’t want your votes”, so deal with it. Be mad at your elected officials for not doing jack shit to pressure their own party.
I’m not in the business of blaming someone for voting for Joe Biden. But I will absolutely say that Democrats will never have a reason to listen to you if they can just make sure their opponents are routinely this repulsive. My calculations are pretty simple- make it clear to the DNC that this style of war hawking is a losing strategy. If their loyalty to Israel as a US ally is more important to them than the future of their democracy, they should be remembered for that
This is an incredibly stupid response, actually.
For one, as people said before, Biden *simply being in office* prevents anything Project 2025 related from happening.
But if I'm going to be charitable, you can say red states are acting in ways that are similar to project 2025 - But that only strengthens the case for Biden because having control over the executive branch (and also the legislative branch) means there's a chance to fight some of that terrible legislation. And then you contrast that with states like Michigan and Minnesota that have had major progressive gains in the last four years and the answer is obvious.
Lastly, I know some people might not care about this, but I'll take senile old Biden who's not going to enable bigots within his party to attack and demean minorities, promote anti-science views, and threaten to use the military on American civilians.
I swear to God, every "it's pointless voting both sides of the same actually" argument is dumber than the last. If you actually care about people, and want a path to make things better, vote against Trump - it's that simple. There is no argument to not do that.
There's a really simple question to ask: "which of the two possible outcomes in the elections will be better for the world?"
Just vote towards that outcome, easy. Hold your nose if your need. Or if you're fortunate enough to live in a solid blue state, sure you can probably safely cast a protest vote, but only on the top of the ballot
It's so progressive to allow the fascist movement to gain unlimited power. Certainly a well-reasoned response and not cheap cynicism to excuse removing yourself from the struggle so job can pretend that a magical "revolution" will come if you let things get bad enough to teach someone a lesson.
I swear some of these people can't comprehend the idea that you actually have to continuously fight for social change. The slightest disappointment and they retreat into pseudo-intellectual cynical jabbering on self-righteously for not making any compromises to their rigid standards. Meanwhile, all the people suffering from the authoritarian movements have impact on their sense of moral superiority because it will all be fixed when their hypothetical progressive savior candidate comes any day now.
Lot of brain rot in these comments. The point of this tweet is to signify that biden has did absolutely nothing to stop P2025 from occurring, despite having the ability to do so. It isnt a 'don't vote biden', it's a 'biden doesn't actually give a fuck if P2025 happens, he is more interested in sending as many billions to israel as he can'. If you don't leverage voting power over your candidate(even if you were going to vote for them all along), then how do you expect things to change. The arguments here are veering into liberal apathy levels of politics.
>. If you don't leverage voting power over your candidate(even if you were going to vote for them all along), then how do you expect things to change.
I don’t think most people disagree with this. But that nuance is regularly abandoned in these discussions. This sub and its members were overwhelmingly for the non-committed vote and in support of the protest movements.
But this post isn’t about leveraging those tools. It’s hand waving away calls to vote for Dems as “concern trolling” over the published plans to dismantle the administrative state.
The issue is the Democrats are far too timid to address things like Project 2025 head on. I think that’s where a lot of the frustration comes from. It’s the Boy who cried Wolf. They shriek to the public about existential threats to democracy and then go play patty cakes with insane nut jobs and pretend they’re reasonable and intelligent people.
That said, Project 2025 can’t fully happen without full GOP control of Congress and the presidency, so having Democrats in charge in at least one of the two chambers or the White House does keep it from being fully executed
My whole life, Democrats' position has been *we want to do what Republicans are doing, but we want the adults to run it*.
Reagan railed against Welfare - but Clinton dismantled it. Like the Democrats didn't so "NO! A social safety net is important!" Instead, they said "NO! Let us do the dismantling!"
And then after W Bush, they didn't say "NO! Murderning people with drone strikes in places we aren't even at war with is wrong!" Instead they said "Won't you [voters] feel better about the grown-ups being in charge of drone strike?"
And, like, in 2004 Kerry wasn't anti-war. He almost literally ran on "let the grown-ups run the Global War on Terror".
And now Biden is the grown-up shutting down the border. The grown-up supplying weapons to murderous regimes.
Like in a few years it's going to be "Vote Harris - Put the grown-ups in charge deportation camps" or "Put the grown-ups in charge of enforcing anti-abortion laws" or "Put the grown-ups in charge of the transgender re-education camps".
And, like, Project 2025 isn't even a surprise. Republicans have spoken publicly about their intention to do these things. And people like Pelosi and Schumer have poopooed the idea as if it were a conspiracy theory, instead of actual quotes of actual things that Republicans have expressed the plans to do on Fox News every night for 20 years. Republicans have been talking about taking over the courts and putting conservative activist ideologue judges into SCOTUS and the Federal and state courts around the country. And Democratic leaderships scoffs at it like it's conspiracy theory.
And the Democratic leaders stop at nothing to pump the brakes on Democrat politicians who dare to campaign on undoing the things Republicans have done. Like saying "NO! We're going to take the courts back and we're going to fix these things and we're going to make the world better rather than just manage the disaster" will get you kicked right out of the caucus, laughed off the debate stage, coordinated inside-the-party action to take you down.
The fact that project 2025 has been slowly happening over decades is an indictment of the two party system writ large.
Low key sad that we will never see it end.
Some local governments pushing stupid shit is not indication Biden would go along with project 2025. Project 2025 is an explicit republican plan to guarantee the republicans stay in power and get their way for the foreseeable future Biden would not do any of these things as well as will get a few more Supreme Court appointments that may be able to lessen the damage of the next republican president
Vote in Primaries, kids
Putting Trump in office in 2016 really was a driving factor. It gave 3 more conservative SC Judges and appointed numerous conservative judges in lower courts. Considering malaise about 2016 contributed to his win, perhaps we should vote for a president that can continue to appoint more liberal justices and judges. Democrats majority can work to codify women’s rights that republicans are already working to take away birth control. The damage was done in 2016, now we have to hold back further destruction until we are able to get our rights back.
When Trump put forth his first SCOTUS nomination, we went out to protest, members of Congress and the Senate joined us, singing for a few minutes. The next days the bastards went and voted for the motherfucker. A deliberately useless party unless its time to fund more dead people overseas.
[удалено]
Not a defender of Obama by any means but he only had a Democratic house and Senate his first 2 years in office and that majority was comprised of a lot of anti-choice Democrats who would not have voted to codify Roe under any circumstances.
It wasn’t two years, it was a few months. Franken wasn’t seated for several months due to a recount; Kennedy was out with cancer, then a Republican won his seat for the rest of his term.
They had 59 seats (a clear majority) for 2 years and 60 seats for a few months. And they knew ahead of time that they will have 60 seats. If 59/60 seats is not enough to pass good policy (that they supposedly want), how will they be able to campaign on doing good stuff when 59 Senate seats is probably permanently out of reach?
You’re right, you shouldn’t defend him. There was a point where he had the super majority needed to codify Roe (which was also considered one of the most productive congresses in American history), but didn’t because “ passing a law guaranteeing those rights was not his top priority.” He fumbled HARD on abortion rights. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/
The thing is you're assuming that if Obama had "made it a priority" (whatever that even means) it would've gotten passed. It really wouldn't have. Look at the Democrats in the senate who constituted a majority at the time. It was people like Ben Nelson and in the House it was people like Bart Stupak. They would never have voted to codify Roe. Obama chose not to make it a priority because he didn't have the votes to begin with. Again, I'm not here to defend Obama. His record on judicial nominees was terrible. But the idea that he could've codified Roe is baseless based on what the votes were in congress.
Dems didn't control the house for the vast majority of his presidency. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/02/03/single-party-control-in-washington-is-common-at-the-beginning-of-a-new-presidency-but-tends-not-to-last-long/
There may be things you don’t like about this presidency, but P2025 is literally *not* happening with this presidency. That’s what they are doing to stop it. Literally not doing it.
There is a lot more that can be done to prevent P2025, other than not doing it. You can make it so that felons cannot run for president, you can enshrine protections on minority rights etc
You got some grand plan to ratify a new constitutional amendment to disqualify trump in the next five months?
They tried to enshrine a woman’s right to birth control as a right but Republicans blocked it with the filibuster.
Fix the issue with the filibuster then. The only things that get passed are raises and military funding for other countries.
Neither party will ever get a 3/5 majority of congress again in order to get rid of the filibuster.
They don't need 3/5 majority to change the rule. The rule's already been changed multiple times. The "nuclear option" exists, that's how. Way it works takes advantage of the following procedural loophole allowing unique interpretations of rules to become precedent: * Majority leader announces a point of order that cloture to debate now requires a simple majority vote * Presiding officer will disagree, as this is a new interpretation and goes against the rules * Objection is overturned on appeal by a simple majority vote * Senate rules are now changed This is exactly what Reid did to get around McConnell's filibustering of Obama's appointments, but he kept the rule in place for Supreme Court nominees. McConnell used the nuclear option to remove the limit for the Supreme Court so they could get Gorsuch on the bench in 2017.
Fair enough, why do you think Democrats haven’t done this yet?
Because they're not actually interested in seriously opposing the Republicans or taking any action to actually address the crises we face since that would necessarily require directly confronting capital. Remember the parliamentarian? Democrats will always find some convenient excuse of decorum or proper procedure as to why they can't actually do anything.
There's a pain point we can explore. This should be being asked of our representatives.
I hope it’s not that they really don’t care.
I mean they tried for voting rights but Sinema and Machin blocked it. We need more and better Democrats.
This is worth keeping in mind. Their on-paper majority was not a real majority
>You can make it so that felons cannot run for president You can't really be serious here? The requirements for being (or not being) president are spelled out, specifically, in the Constitution. You know this, right? What you're suggesting would require amending the Constitution. Unlike the filibuster, which is a made up rule in the Senate, amending the Constitution actually *requires* 2/3 majority in both houses. How exactly is that going to happen?
If you think **that** is more likely to happen than us managing to pile enough begrudgingly Biden votes together... hoo boy.
Yes but the argument OP made was that Dems are doing *nothing* and a suggestion that Project2025 is already here / in effect. That’s clearly not true.
A stronger majority in congress would certainly help. Right now neither side can do what they really want and instead just stop the other side from doing dumb stuff.
Nah, congress and the senate would have to do some work. Trust me bro, they have tried nothing and they are all out of ideas
It's not that simple. The border EO is just one example of how the Dems facilitate a rightward shift the make inevitable politicians like Trump and policies like the 2025 project. They do it all the time. You can say that a dem in office won't do the thing a Republican will, but you can't say that there isn't a larger shift happening, of which the Dems are a part, towards more extreme right wing politics. Again, a genocide is staring us in the face, an obvious and extreme example of this.
The Biden presidency merely postpones the republican takeover. Democrats are unwilling to do anything lasting to prevent it. We’ll always be less than 4 years away from absolute catastrophe, as Democrats concede further on immigration, foreign policy, and corporate greed.
OP is suggesting we not even try to postpone it. They’re not even offering a better alternative, no matter how unrealistic. Be skeptical of these people. The alternative they are offering is Republican fascism.
It appears that will always be the case. Vote blue no matter who because of Republican fascism. No real incentive for Dems to fight for the issues impacting us in the working class or to support Palestine.
You've got to at least appreciate the irony of "saving democracy" by simply having one party win forever.
Except the republicans are running out of money and trump is running out of time. Assuming he even lives to the next election he would have spent the time between 2024 and 2028 in courtroom after courtroom as his myriad of criminal cases went forward. At best he doesn’t go to prison and he runs again in 2028 with a basically bankrupt Republican Party. Ideally he goes to jail or dies and the republicans never financially or electorally recover from his cult never accepting anyone else.
What are they doing to stop it??? *Stand by as women rights to bodily autonomy protection gone* *approved most oil contracts on federal land ever* *Book banned all over* Oh, that's right! More money for land grab and bombing kids for a foreign government. Dissolution of international law base order to excuse genocide
Project 2025 is based largely on the removal of federal service employees and their replacement with political appointees. That is the scariest part.
How would the Dems stop the conservative Supreme Court from overturning Roe? They don’t have the votes to codify it.
They could’ve codified abortion rights legally. They could’ve added seats to the SC. They didn’t do either because people kept saying that the SC wouldn’t overturn Roe despite the overt acknowledgment by conservatives about that being the exact plan.
They needed 60 votes to codify it. It’s not even math, it’s counting
Then repeal the filibuster.
How? The numbers on the left just don't add up for that, and they won't unless we elect more Democrats, full stop.
They could stop using they boogeyman strategy and listen to their voters? Just a thought
I asked for an actual policy they could do, not an empty talking point.
Biden ran on the promise of no more drilling on federal land. The very first thing he did was approve the willow project. Then, he went on to approve more oil contracts than the Trump administration. The policy of keeping promises to the voter base is a start.
The very first thing? You mean 2 years later after everyone was giving him shit about gas prices? Crazy how we had to go so far off the topic on the thread to find something to disapprove, and disapprove of we should, but fucking lol that this is some kind of defense of a protest vote when he also passed the biggest climate legislation in the countries history.
It's also missing some major context - per Manchin's add-ons to get IRA passed, the law requires a set number of offshore oil and gas leases before it can offer offshore wind leases.
RESPONSE TO ORIGINAL POST AND THE THREAD: "I'll give up even more of my rights and freedoms, get even less from the Government, and give my tax dollars to those even richer than me... THAT'LL teach the Democrats to be more progressive whenever they next are in power!" Instead of the actual reality in which the Democratic Party moved further left because then-US Senator Barack Obama was ostensibly more to 'the Left' than then-US Senator Hillary Clinton. And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of US Senator Bernie Sanders doing so well in the 2016 Democratic Primaries. And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of The Squad. And the reality that the Democratic Party moved further left because of how well US Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren did in 2020. At least in rhetoric, because of progressives, POTUS Donald Trump has to pretend he wants to protect Social Security and Medicare, wants something even better than the Affordable Care Act, and that he supports unions. That's a far cry from those like Paul Ryan. Progressives want progressives to have more power in politics. Get progressives to have more power in politics. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=1289123714#gid=1289123714](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=1289123714#gid=1289123714) The US House of Representatives on the Democratic side is far more progressive since 2019 than it was before. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=0#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPBdBrqVCbtuy7f1bjOdCDUzEv5RqbbU1yYAr3KoHYE/edit?gid=0#gid=0) The US Senate needs to move more (and so does the US House). At least vote down-ballot. And vote for POTUS Joe Biden. Be strategic regarding giving time and/or money to candidates. But voting? In the general elections, generally vote Democrat.
Very well said. This idea that Democrats will suddenly become progressive if progressives stop voting for them makes zero sense, so frustrating to see it pop up here.
In fact, the proposition that we shouldn’t vote for Dems so that we can progressively virtue signal seems like a useful argument for Russian bots / sock accounts that are known to exist on social media (in droves). Not saying OP is one, but ‘let’s cut off our nose to spite our face’ arguments that benefit Russia tend to get most traction with those accounts.
Those spreadsheets are absolutely fire. Wow! They're almost perfect.
I didn't make them, but I saved the link. They are here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1asap3r/congressional\_democrat\_leftist\_tracker/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1asap3r/congressional_democrat_leftist_tracker/) Spread them around, if you want. More people should know about the voting records of the Democrats in the US House of Representatives and in the US Senate.
I will certainly share them, although I'm curious about the methodology. I'm Canadian so they aren't directly useful to me, but I'm suddenly considering stealing the concept for my own government.
I love this. But what about AIPAC funding progressive opponents?
Stupid take. Show me the federal agencies which have been filled with political appointments designed to destroy them from the inside out. How do you stop a plan which requires Republicans to be in power in any way other than *winning the election against Republicans*??? Which you definitely won’t do by not voting for democrats.
Yeah... came here to say this. Project 2025 is designed with a willing GOP president appointing folks to key governmental positions. There's nothing to "stop" when it isn't in action.
Hey, so can you explain to me further about this? What's the future you predict with this?
The goal is stated in their "Mandate for Leadership" white paper (lengthy one). Find it here (using archive.org to not give them website hit creds, but you'll find it on their site if you want): https://web.archive.org/web/20240413020321/https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf Some points sound nuanced and perhaps not new ("blah blah, we hate the Department of Education, we should get rid of it" sorta conservative talking points) but this is a hard-right think tank laying blueprints with many in Trump's orbit (and likely to be appointees or advisors) restating points from this. This isn't them saying things that get conservatives all hot and horny—it is actual intellectual justification and order of operations for trying to rid much of the US government and push things down to the states (where many will be more than happy to steer far from the norms and protections established now). So a Trump presidency and a Trump-backing congress can enact this. Sure, people will say that there is always the filibuster for Dems, but a likely nuclear option will do away with that.
Well said. It's just the new version of "well everything is X if you accept my framing, so it doesn't matter".
Am I being gaslighted? I thought Project 2025 was a plan to fast track a ton of Trump sycophants and yes men into all levels of government in order to pass Republican agendas with little to no resistance were Trump to get reelected. It’s basically the same as him being given a list of judges from the Heritage Foundation for him to rubber stamp, but done on a wide scale. The only thing that can be done to prevent it is not letting Trump to get reelected. Jesus fucking Christ. We’ve already seen the damage done by Trump’s court appointments - not just Roe at the SCOTUS level, but how his appointed judges have stalled his trials. This isn’t “concern trolling”; a second Trump term would be disastrous. He barely got anything done in his first term because he’s completely incompetent, but Project 2025 would effectively make him a figurehead while far right groups are passing laws that would keep them in power for the next century. There’s nothing Democrats can do about it now because it hasn’t happened. (I mean, there are things they could try to do, but won’t; if Trump is reelected it’s going to be a blatant power grab and there won’t be anything to be done at that point).
Yea, that's basically what it is *except* that it's not just if Trump gets elected. It's if ANY republican gets elected...unfortunately this likely means it'll be an ongoing fear whenever there's a chance a republican will hold the seat of the president.
This is an incredibly stupid take.
What, so you say referring to Project 2025 is the actual concern trolling? So don't try to stop bad stuff from happening in the USA, got it. /s Love the condescension by the way.
My take from this is that we shouldn’t be shaming voters who aren’t encouraged enough to vote blue, we should be shaming the Democrats who are actually in power and can actually make a difference for not stopping project 2025.
What good does it do to throw away a vote or to vote for Trump? How does that move the situation into positive territory?
Spoiler: it doesn't. Just as "both sides" nonsense only ever attacks liberals and leftists, "don't vote for Biden" advocates don't actually care about a second Trump term because they're tankies or Russian trolls.
How does rewarding the people who are currently making the situation worse move the situation into positive territory?
Grift
This isn’t a succinct or perfect response by any means. Project 2025 requires the Rs to hold the executive. Dems being in place in itself stops Project2025. Of course, they should do more in power than just hold the line (or permit only incremental conservative moves), including making themselves more palatable to voters by making genuine progressive reforms, but they are directly blocking Project2025 as it is.
Nope. This ain’t it.
This fundamentally misunderstands Project 2025.
Reading some of the responses here, do you even listen to what Sam and Emma and Matt have to say about things? Does *any* of it sink in?
Absurd. Honestly, so much so that it doesn’t deserve a response.
Before you talk about Project 2025, it might be helpful to know what it is lmao. It is essentially impossible without all 3 branches being controlled by the Republicans. If you're really concerned about P2025, vote Democrat, if you just don't think it's a big deal, dont.
The entirety of P2025 rests on the interpretation the executive powers clause in the constitution. They only need the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution in the way the Executive Branch thinks they should.
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Project 2025 is based around unitary executive theory, which means two things - 1) Biden’s mere presence in the White House is absolutely a deterrent to them trying to carry it out, since the Heritage Foundation absolutely doesn’t want to give a Democratic president that kind of power, and 2) the only actions Dems COULD conceivably take to prevent it are packing the Supreme Court (which Republicans would IMMEDIATELY use if that option was on the table) or deliberately transferring the power of executive orders away from the executive branch back to the legislature, which would give Republicans the power to easily filibuster the entire federal government into a shutdown.
Have people forgotten that the Dems don’t have a majority in both houses of Congress? The house is a mess of GOP control and they would nuke any protections to slow project 2025. The Senate stupidity requires 60 votes to pass anything and the Dems only have a razor thin majority there. And the Court will quickly be used to strike down anything that would also slow project 2025. The only was to change that is to keep the White House, flip the house, and get a bigger majority in the senate. Do look at the game of whack a mole the GOP have done with Student Load Forgiveness. They are using the levers of control their voters gave them. We all need to do our part to deliver votes while we still can.
liberals in 2023: vote for Biden or brown people will be deported! liberals in 2024: we will reach across the aisle so that we can more easily deport brown people
"democrats" are not the driving force of cop cities. City politics are often wonkier than the party the people end up belonging to. Conservatives are still the driving force of cop cities.
I also like that it's the fault of people who have natural human empathy to seeing infants and children being starved to death or burned alive to death, Instead of the the fault of the person who is not only helping this happen, but sanitizing the results. Since it's Biden, people just trust he's doing everything possible even though he's shown time and time again that he views the Palestinians and Lebanese as subhumans. 9 people have resigned so far from his administration, one including one person who said the Biden admin is straight up lying by saying that Israel is not hindering aid, and another Jewish life long Israel advocate, who said Biden 'is making Jews the face of the American warmachine". In a 1982 bombing that Reagan described as a holocoust after seeing pictures of dead children including a mutilated baby, he ordered Israel to stop the bombing. When the then Israeli PM was being grilled by the senate armed forced committee, Biden has the bombings should have continued, even if meant killing more women and children. Biden specifically asked for the bombings of more women and children, whose mutilated imaged of caused rage on Reagan. Another time when Biden sabotaged and humiliated his old boss Obama to curry favor with the right wing genocidal Netanyahu's plan to murder Palestinians in the West Bank. > In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.” > > Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave [Netanyahu] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added. Biden has a history that he is repeating right now. He has the power to not only do the right thing regarding the Palestinians, but also not risking the US to a Trump presidency and project 2025. But the divided left is somehow not the fault of the person who is enabling, supporting, and sanitizing the genocide. It's instead people who are having very human reactions to seeing infants and children being burned alive and starved to death. But I don't blame thing, it'll work. Like how they blamed the progressives for Hillary's lose, even though every single study showed that the progressives turned out in levels that were higher than 2012, and on par with 2008. That's the narrative, even though it was the swing voters Hillary lost, the lost both the Bush-Obama voters and the McCain-Obama voters. And another funny thing is that they're focused on the progressives voting even though historically speaking, they're going to come out for Biden. At the end of the Trump, Biden is running against Trump. But they're not going to volunteer and work for Biden. The Biden admin literally has hundreds of positions open, unprecedented, and concerning in a country with very low turnouts , the ground game is essential.
glad OP is getting dunked on here, because wtaf is this accelerationist bullshit? do you have a pragmatic bone in your body? how do you even listen to the program if you disagree with the hosts on such a fundamental level
You could prevent 2025 by getting me to vote for you. The past 8 months have been “no, we don’t want your votes”, so deal with it. Be mad at your elected officials for not doing jack shit to pressure their own party.
I am mad at them. Doesn’t change the calculation.
I’m not in the business of blaming someone for voting for Joe Biden. But I will absolutely say that Democrats will never have a reason to listen to you if they can just make sure their opponents are routinely this repulsive. My calculations are pretty simple- make it clear to the DNC that this style of war hawking is a losing strategy. If their loyalty to Israel as a US ally is more important to them than the future of their democracy, they should be remembered for that
and the responses will be *look sweetie this is how you're just making biden look bad, stop being a anti voter*
Fuck this lady. GO VOTE AND FUCK THOSE WHO TELL YOU NOT TO
This is an incredibly stupid response, actually. For one, as people said before, Biden *simply being in office* prevents anything Project 2025 related from happening. But if I'm going to be charitable, you can say red states are acting in ways that are similar to project 2025 - But that only strengthens the case for Biden because having control over the executive branch (and also the legislative branch) means there's a chance to fight some of that terrible legislation. And then you contrast that with states like Michigan and Minnesota that have had major progressive gains in the last four years and the answer is obvious. Lastly, I know some people might not care about this, but I'll take senile old Biden who's not going to enable bigots within his party to attack and demean minorities, promote anti-science views, and threaten to use the military on American civilians. I swear to God, every "it's pointless voting both sides of the same actually" argument is dumber than the last. If you actually care about people, and want a path to make things better, vote against Trump - it's that simple. There is no argument to not do that.
There's a really simple question to ask: "which of the two possible outcomes in the elections will be better for the world?" Just vote towards that outcome, easy. Hold your nose if your need. Or if you're fortunate enough to live in a solid blue state, sure you can probably safely cast a protest vote, but only on the top of the ballot
Lmfao calling it concern trolling is definitely one way to just never have to answer the question.
It's so progressive to allow the fascist movement to gain unlimited power. Certainly a well-reasoned response and not cheap cynicism to excuse removing yourself from the struggle so job can pretend that a magical "revolution" will come if you let things get bad enough to teach someone a lesson. I swear some of these people can't comprehend the idea that you actually have to continuously fight for social change. The slightest disappointment and they retreat into pseudo-intellectual cynical jabbering on self-righteously for not making any compromises to their rigid standards. Meanwhile, all the people suffering from the authoritarian movements have impact on their sense of moral superiority because it will all be fixed when their hypothetical progressive savior candidate comes any day now.
Lot of brain rot in these comments. The point of this tweet is to signify that biden has did absolutely nothing to stop P2025 from occurring, despite having the ability to do so. It isnt a 'don't vote biden', it's a 'biden doesn't actually give a fuck if P2025 happens, he is more interested in sending as many billions to israel as he can'. If you don't leverage voting power over your candidate(even if you were going to vote for them all along), then how do you expect things to change. The arguments here are veering into liberal apathy levels of politics.
How would you prevent it from happening? What could possibly be done that Trump wouldn’t overturn day 1 if elected?
>. If you don't leverage voting power over your candidate(even if you were going to vote for them all along), then how do you expect things to change. I don’t think most people disagree with this. But that nuance is regularly abandoned in these discussions. This sub and its members were overwhelmingly for the non-committed vote and in support of the protest movements. But this post isn’t about leveraging those tools. It’s hand waving away calls to vote for Dems as “concern trolling” over the published plans to dismantle the administrative state.
The issue is the Democrats are far too timid to address things like Project 2025 head on. I think that’s where a lot of the frustration comes from. It’s the Boy who cried Wolf. They shriek to the public about existential threats to democracy and then go play patty cakes with insane nut jobs and pretend they’re reasonable and intelligent people. That said, Project 2025 can’t fully happen without full GOP control of Congress and the presidency, so having Democrats in charge in at least one of the two chambers or the White House does keep it from being fully executed
My whole life, Democrats' position has been *we want to do what Republicans are doing, but we want the adults to run it*. Reagan railed against Welfare - but Clinton dismantled it. Like the Democrats didn't so "NO! A social safety net is important!" Instead, they said "NO! Let us do the dismantling!" And then after W Bush, they didn't say "NO! Murderning people with drone strikes in places we aren't even at war with is wrong!" Instead they said "Won't you [voters] feel better about the grown-ups being in charge of drone strike?" And, like, in 2004 Kerry wasn't anti-war. He almost literally ran on "let the grown-ups run the Global War on Terror". And now Biden is the grown-up shutting down the border. The grown-up supplying weapons to murderous regimes. Like in a few years it's going to be "Vote Harris - Put the grown-ups in charge deportation camps" or "Put the grown-ups in charge of enforcing anti-abortion laws" or "Put the grown-ups in charge of the transgender re-education camps". And, like, Project 2025 isn't even a surprise. Republicans have spoken publicly about their intention to do these things. And people like Pelosi and Schumer have poopooed the idea as if it were a conspiracy theory, instead of actual quotes of actual things that Republicans have expressed the plans to do on Fox News every night for 20 years. Republicans have been talking about taking over the courts and putting conservative activist ideologue judges into SCOTUS and the Federal and state courts around the country. And Democratic leaderships scoffs at it like it's conspiracy theory. And the Democratic leaders stop at nothing to pump the brakes on Democrat politicians who dare to campaign on undoing the things Republicans have done. Like saying "NO! We're going to take the courts back and we're going to fix these things and we're going to make the world better rather than just manage the disaster" will get you kicked right out of the caucus, laughed off the debate stage, coordinated inside-the-party action to take you down.
The fact that project 2025 has been slowly happening over decades is an indictment of the two party system writ large. Low key sad that we will never see it end.
Some local governments pushing stupid shit is not indication Biden would go along with project 2025. Project 2025 is an explicit republican plan to guarantee the republicans stay in power and get their way for the foreseeable future Biden would not do any of these things as well as will get a few more Supreme Court appointments that may be able to lessen the damage of the next republican president