Nothing. But that’s the whole point. I don’t think either is better than the other. But Maddison has more experience for England and just in their last friendly assists Bellingham’s equaliser so.
He is, he certainly gets more assists at least, which is perhaps a profile we’re missing. Someone whose first thought is a pass rather than a goal for themselves, fair point.
Kane, Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Grealish, Mainoo , TAA we have a lot of playmakers some from wing, some from the centre and some from deeper midfield positions, the real question is not Eze vs Maddison but Maddison vs Grealish ?
It’s a good shout, Maddison had a decent season (barring injury)but it’s hard to see where he fits. Eze gives us an option for the LW at least so I’d like to see him stay
Who will start to decline in the next two years and who hasn’t quite reached his peak yet but will after joining a top 6 club?
I love Maddison and it’s a really tough call if he hasn’t have been injured he might have been demanding to be in the best 15 or 16, my argument for Eze is we’ve lost rashford pace and Eze can replace it plus offer more in terms of goal threat.
>Who will start to decline in the next two years and who hasn’t quite reached his peak yet but will after joining a top 6 club?
That doesn't really matter right now, though, unless he has a sudden and steep decline in the next 2 weeks.
The ability to unlock a low block with a clever pass. I think he's maybe the only player we have who can do that. It's why he goes and Eze stays for me.
No but neither would Eze, and that's not the point as the first 11 (pretty much) picks itself. The point is we have 5 subs we can use to change a game. In my opinion Maddison has the ability to "unlock the door" when we're chasing a goal at the end of the game, with a clever pass, just like he did against Belgium in the 95th minute for Bellingham.
Maddison is more experienced, slightly better on the ball, slightly a better dead ball taker and more versatile. It’s small but Maddison over Eve to me makes sense.
It’s a squad, if we want to win neither should play a minute for us
Neither of them make my starting XI, but Eze would probably get some game time for me on the left of a 3 behind the striker. Gordon makes the most sense for that position. Palmer and Foden are both better coming off the right.
All depends on what formation we’ll play and what role Bellingham has. If Bellingham plays the 10, we don’t need either as Foden probably plays off the left. But I’d like to see Bellingham in the 8
Eve shouldn’t play ahead of Bowen, who’s been quality for years. Bowen is a match winner, he’s scored winners in European finals. He was a left winger when he joined West Ham. Bowen is genuinely quality but isn’t flashy because he’s so direct
If we’re smart we’re starting Bellingham in midfield with Rice. Bellingham might be the best player in Europe right now, but, Foden is up with him. The drop off of losing Bellingham at 10 and having Foden is less than playing Foden out of position and having Bellingham at 10
I rated Bowen in the Belgium match, always seemed to offer something.
We're so ridiculously stacked in the front third that it's nigh unbelievable.
Just need to be in the match at the 70min mark to see anyone off, to be honest.
Bowen is quality. I genuinely believe he’s as good as Saka on the left, and a bit more adaptable. He’s just stuck playing for West Ham. Italy and Germany pick him because they pick players not from top clubs. Bowen was also pure quality against Brazil. He’s clearly at the international level.
But as you said, look at our forwards. We’ve got Bowen, Saka, Palmer, and Grealish. Still no proper dead on left winger which we didn’t have in 06, even though we have left footed wingers
We have loads of players who aren't from top clubs. In this squad alone we have: Toney, Bowen, Dunk, Eze, Wharton, Guehi, Pickford, Gordon, Watkins and Maddison.
100% agree with your second point and I’ve said almost exactly that elsewhere
I also agree that Eze shouldn’t play over Bowen but I hadn’t considered them as competing for the same position until now. I didn’t know Bowen had ever played on the left
For me, Bellingham and Rice are the preferred midfield, and Gallagher, TAA and the kids Wharton and/or Mainoo will have to deputise.
As for the attacking mids, I’d have:
Gordon - Foden - Saka as the first choices
Eze - Palmer - Bowen as the rotation
And there’s probably still room in the squad for a Grealish idk
Unfortunately Bowen hasn’t played on the left since he joined. His first match on the left against Southampton he was fantastic. Then covid hit and the first team rejigged
Bowen shouldn’t and I hope wont be dropped. He’s too versatile. He can play on the wing and lead the line. He’s also quite good infront of goal but also defensively a good presser. Basically you have him in the squad and hope you never have to play him.
Saka plays for a better team, Palmer is trying to assist Jackson after all, but Palmer gets a lot more of the ball because he's so clearly the best player at Chelsea.
So it evens out imo.
> Palmer is flasher but Bowen is more direct which I value more
This is totally valid
> Not as good at pressing.
Palmer is top 4% for midfielders for shots created from a defensive action whereas Bowen is very middling. You can argue Bowen runs around a bit more, but Palmer's definitely much more effective at creating from pressing.
> Not as good at finishing.
Bowen is +0.08 on his xG and Palmer is +0.09. There's basically nothing in it; both exceptional finishers.
> Not as good on the ball.
I don't understand how you can say this with a straight face. Obviously Palmer is a much better creator on the ball, but he's also got 50% take on success compared to Bowen's 37%, and Palmer has 2.5 as many ball progressions/90.
Even on the eye test Palmer's weight of pass and ability to create is levels above Bowen's. He creates almost double the xA as well (0.17 v 0.37) if you want to back it up with stats.
I don’t look into stats like that for a chat on a football forum. Anyone can find any stat to back up any opinion (well an opinion that isn’t ludicrous).
Here’s my one stat, European cup final winning goals Bowen 1 Palmer 0
Thats what im thinking. Bowen can play RW or ST. Dropping Saka or Palmer is unthinkable considering their respective seasons. Same with Kane and Watkins. We have enough squad space and we can call-up reserves in case of emergency. We don't have to worry about utility players, especially in attack.
I would take Bowen and Eze over Maddison and Grealish all day. Regards the rest I think your probably right. Jones might get in over one of Mainoo or Wharton as they place very similar positions. I would personally take Quansah too as he has been brilliant this season but I cant see Gareth going for it.
Bowen gets so much disrespect it’s unreal.
16 non pen goals 6 assists in the prem. Foden and Watkins the only players with more (who will also be going).
Who would you drop instead? Just curious. As good as he is, he's not better at RW than Saka or Palmer for me. And he's not better up front than Kane or Watkins. Could take him since it's a 26 man squad. But feel like the extra depth in other positions could provide more value since I don't see many situations I'd rather have him on the pitch than those 4.
Feel like the people saying he could get dropped aren't having a dig at Bowen. Just highlighting the fact that he's playing in a ridiculously competitive position.
Trafford, Quansah, Dunk, Jones, Wharton, Eze, Maddison.
Maybe Wharton or Eze gets in for Grealish or Toney, and defenders behind the starters is a bit of a lottery.
I’m an Everton fan so I’d 100% have Branthwaite in the squad, but I don’t think Southgate will take him purely because he didn’t play a minute the last time he was selected and Dunk did.
Depends on how the friendlys go. And also injuries. Shaw could be gone for example. Otherwise:
Eze. Trafford. Dunk. Wharton. Toney.
Id say are absolutely not going to
Then two from: mainoo. Maddison. *Branthwaite* guehi. Konsa & quansah (although love the idea of that partnership at the back just for the names)
Trafford is a given. Good idea to give him the experience of this meet up but that’s the end of it for now.
In terms of outfield I don’t really understand the need for or like the idea of a 26 man squad because it potentially muddles your thinking, but I’d still stick with a rough idea of 2 players per position and then you can have 3 wildcards. One thing it does do is negate the benefit of ‘versatility’ picks (eg let’s take this right back as he can also play left back and then we can take one less left back and extra forward, or whatever).
With that in mind, my initial 20 would then be Maguire, Stones, Gomez, Guehi, Walker, Trent, Shaw, Trippier for the defence (and I think that’s pretty much what Southgate will go for too - yes Gomez is still a bit of a versatility pick but I think he warrants his place even without that and also with Shaw’s issues it’s probably necessary even with a larger squad) Rice, Bellingham, Foden (I’m playing him at 10, Southgate won’t), Gallagher, Mainoo, Palmer (I’m taking him as cover at 10, not as a forward) for the midfield, and Kane, Watkins, Saka, Gordon, Grealish, and Eze as forwards.
So that then leaves 3 wildcard picks from Branthwaite, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Jones, Wharton, Bowen, Maddison, and Toney. I’m not convinced by Toney despite the Belgium performance but we’ve got to have a third option up front so he goes. Maddison isn’t necessary if Foden and Palmer are the 10s (with Bellingham obviously more than able to do a job there too if required). Out of the defensive options which we may as well take one of I’d probably go for Branthwaite but there’s not much in it. And then you’re left with either an extra midfielder from Jones or Wharton or the extra attacker in Bowen - I’m probably biased but I’d narrowly go for the latter but Southgate will probably be more conservative and go for an extra midfielder instead, which is probably sensible, plus if he’s putting Foden wide then we’ve already got enough forward bodies and could do with the extra midfield option.
So Trafford, Maddison, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Jones, and Wharton would be the seven left out for me - but my suspicion is that Southgate’s (obviously assuming everyone comes through the camp and games fit) will be Trafford, Maddison, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Wharton, and Bowen.
If we are talking of wanting 2 players per position, isn’t Wharton the most likely for like replacement for Rice? Even Rice hasn’t played as an out and out 6 this season but I don’t know who else can
And that’s the problem - it’s the big weak spot in the available personnel, even more so than left back for me as that’s been made worse by injuries but there just is no ideal backup for Rice and as you say even he wouldn’t ideally be being asked to do that job but there literally isn’t another solution. Wharton may well be it, but I just don’t think he is just yet.
So as much as I would aim for two players per position, I don’t really think there are two in that case. Mainoo isn’t ideal in terms of experience either (and also is probably better suited in a slightly different role) but it’s a case of needs must in that slot for now and I just think he’s the marginally less risky option. Fine margins though.
Noble was, and probably still is, the best pen taker in Europe. Never got a cap. You shouldn’t bring players to take pens because if it gets to pens then you’ve lost. Toney shouldn’t go because Englands two 9s are Kane who is the worlds best 9, and Watkins who is the best 9 in the league this year. (Haaland had a worse season) if Kane isn’t on the pitch for penalties then we’re fucked either way
Only Le Tissier, Toney and Kane have a better record of those, and 2 weren't active when Noble played, and Kane just barely, which was that guy's point.
He won't ever play, Kane will play every minute. What's the point, especially if his only redeeming quality is pens? So that he can be subbed on right before a shootout like rashford and sancho last time? That went well.
There's plenty of great penalty takers in the team like palmer kane maddy saka.
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Bowen definitely as foden saka palmer can all play on the right
Curtis Jones
Quansah
Trafford
Hopefully dunk
Shaw if he isn't fit if he is gomez maybe
Wharton like him but likely cut
I would have a fucking aneurysm if the one Palace player to get cut was Eze. Eze was going to be picked by Southgate for the last Euros before getting injured. I would be shocked if he didn’t make the squad thrice in a row.
I think you’re pretty nailed on with these (excluding injuries). Eze and Maddison is a huge coin flip
Maybe Bowen stays over jones but again I think that’s a bit of a 50/50
Seven need to be cut makes me feel that there is much more than Luke Shaw carrying an injury?
He’s picked a lot of Centre backs, Maguire not yet fit and he also has Stones, Gomez, Dunk, Maguire, Branthwaite, Quansah, Ghuei and Ezre Konsa
He takes TAA, Walker, Trippier and Shaw if fit that means he will drop 3 or 4 of those 9 CB’s.
So if Maguire is fit, Dunk is the first casualty, then he picks one versatile CB/FB Gomez or Konsa, Gomez goes as he can play left back too.
Ghuei is Southgate’s third pick when all CB are fit, he’s the one with genuine elite pace he goes and then his final choice is between Branthwaite and Quansah, Branthwaite goes.
So I think he cuts J Trafford, L Dunk, E Konsa, J Quansah which is 4 players if Luke shaw and Maguire were 100% fit he’d drop Gomez too but they’re not. In midfield it’s far more difficult because by not picking Henderson or an out of form Phillips, he doesn’t really have a natural CDM. Bellingham, Rice, Foden, Gallagher and probably K Mainoo as he can sit in a double pivot all go, which means he has a choice between Curtis Jones and Adam Wharton, now Jones is slightly more experienced and more attacking however if TAA played in midfield, he offers the same type of character and play style, it’s pretty close, that’s why I see Adam Wharton getting a game in the friendlies as a DM and if he plays well then Curtis Jones will also be cut which now makes 5.
The attacking talent have make the last two incredibly difficult to do so fairly, England have 4 elite left footed attackers, Saka, Foden, Palmer and Bowen, personally I’d take them all and I’ll explain why in a bit.
Now here the first player that should be cut from the attackers and that’s Ivan Toney, he’s done very little since he’s been back played well in one international game, will be 30/31 at next World Cup and his pace is declining, yes he’s a great hold up player but England have Kane and Watkins and even if the worst case scenario we might be more effective with Foden, Palmer or Bowen as a false 9, he’s not needed and I doubt he will be part of the future, Ollie Watkins is quicker, more versatile can offer that same pace and threat from the left and he’s the in form player, Toney gets cut.
Saka can also play wide left, Left wing back, Palmer, Bowen and Foden are also super versatile and can play in multiple positions this is why you take them all, we don’t have enough lefties to leave even one out?
The final player to cut is the most difficult, Maddison, Grealish, Gordon, Eze any three from four but if it’s based on form and in particular current form, then Eze and Antony Gordon must go.
Grealish for me based on his ability to play the Maddison role just has the small advantage of being a player who can draw fouls, is used to wining and offers something just a little different plus Maddison since his return from injury been average at best.
So I’m saying as hard as this is, the seven players to be cut should be James Trafford, Ezri Konsa, Lewis Dunk, Jarell Quansah, Curtis Jones, Ivan Toney and James Maddison.
Eberechi Eze is the most inform player right now, can play 8, 10 wide left has pace and the X factor to score a goal from nothing, leaving him behind would make a mockery of dropping Rashford, he has the same type of penetration like Gordon does, Maddison offers only the same that Grealish or to a lesser extent Kobie Mainoo who is clearly a better at beating a man and opening up a low block with those mazy dribbles, I’m thinking of the future too, Madison with all his injuries may not be in the next WC at 31, Kobbie Mainoo and Adam Wharton could be regulars for the next decade.
I think this will be the 7, though I’d personally rather have Bowen over Maddison. Bowen gives you an extra striker, if needed, and Maddison has been non existent for weeks now.
Eze and Bowen should go imo. Eze is in great form and Bowen had a very good season.
I'd cut;
Trafford - for obvious reasons
Dunk - not good enough
Quansah - don't need that much cover
Jones - not good enough
Grealish - terrible season and should suffer the same fate as Rashford
Maddison - out of form
Guehi - unless we need extra defensive cover because of the injuries, in which case it'd be Toney.
I’d be dropping Trent and taking Toney. If Kane get injured we’d have one striker in the squad. In past tournaments we always had a back up strike rand rashford just in case but we don’t have anyone that can do that.
And id take Bowen over grealish. Neither will start and I can’t see Grealish getting a goal coming off the bench.
- Henderson
Him and Trafford have had good seasons in terms of performances. Trafford I think offers more as he has experience of a big competitions. England U21 won the Euros in 2023 and Trafford saved a penalty in the last minute to win England the game. England conceded 0 goals at the championships, 6 clean sheets for Trafford
Trafford is also seen as the future for England so I think the experience will do him a lot more good.
- Toney
With Bowen, Palmer, Watkins, Kane all able to play as a Striker he isn’t needed.
- Quansah
Had a good breakthrough season for Liverpool but just hasn’t been as good as the rest of the CBs imo.
- Guehi
Similar to Quansah, just hadn’t had as good of a season as the rest.
(If Luke Shaw is injured I think Guehi will then make the squad as he can cover the LCB role in a back three and could also do a job as a defensive LB in an emergency)
- Jones
He has had one of the weakest seasons of the midfielders this season. He has the advantage that he could cover the LW position. But I don’t think he is needed unfortunately.
- Mainoo
The Midfielders were the hardest to decide for me. I think we have enough options in defensive midfield. We will have Rice doing this almost the entire time. If he gets injured we have Rice, Stones, Trent, Gallagher that could do a job helping with the defending in an emergency.
- Wharton
Similar to Mainoo I don’t think we need him. Players like Eze and Maddison have had such a strong season and for me. The more options we have at LW the better.
Mainoo and Wharton are the only two that are natural partners to Rice in a double pivot.
Stones could do it but he's too important to our defence. Trent isn't great at it because he's positionally too attack-minded. Gallagher can do it but I would say it's more a consequence of his work rate than his natural positioning.
Gallagher and Mainoo are the only two that played alongside Rice in our last two friendlies against Brazil and Belgium, and Southgate must have seen enough that he didn't feel the need to press the panic button and recall Henderson.
So, I don't think there's any chance that Mainoo will be sent home. I think Gallagher will be ahead of him but only on seniority, and Mainoo could easily claim the place by playing well enough. I do think Wharton will be sent home but only based on squad cohesion rather than his ability.
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I agree with most of your picks: Trafford, Quansah, Jones, Toney
But, I think he'll also get rid of: Shaw (I have doubts that he'll make it in time), Wharton and Guehi
Some tough calls to make, but rather have that than not enough options, eh?
I might be letting my liverpool bias show here but I throughly believe Quansah is going to be twice the player Branthwaite is
And at this point in time I think he’s probably as good if not better too.
Throw a remind me in 1/2 years on this and I will happily prove myself right
I’m slightly biased but what does Maddison offer that Eze doesn’t?
Nothing. But that’s the whole point. I don’t think either is better than the other. But Maddison has more experience for England and just in their last friendly assists Bellingham’s equaliser so.
Fair enough. I just feel like Eze has had a better season and is a better fit (but not perfect) for the LW role, which is our least stacked position.
I'd much rather take Eze than Maddison based purely on current form and the confidence that comes with it.
Surely current form should be the deciding factor, not having played a few games for England before when it comes to players like this.
He also scored at The G while under the influence of jet lag 😉
Isn’t Maddison a way better playmaker?
He is, he certainly gets more assists at least, which is perhaps a profile we’re missing. Someone whose first thought is a pass rather than a goal for themselves, fair point.
And not just in the opposition's half! He has a great range of passing
Kane, Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Grealish, Mainoo , TAA we have a lot of playmakers some from wing, some from the centre and some from deeper midfield positions, the real question is not Eze vs Maddison but Maddison vs Grealish ?
Oooh best fwends up against each other, that’s going to be a bit touchy. Though deep down Jack won’t want to play, anyway, cos Henderson isn’t there😔
Neither will start so you’ve got to question who will be more explosive off the bench. For me it’s Eze.
It’s a good shout, Maddison had a decent season (barring injury)but it’s hard to see where he fits. Eze gives us an option for the LW at least so I’d like to see him stay
madison when fit during the start of the season was playing at a level above what eze has been showing recently
Who will start to decline in the next two years and who hasn’t quite reached his peak yet but will after joining a top 6 club? I love Maddison and it’s a really tough call if he hasn’t have been injured he might have been demanding to be in the best 15 or 16, my argument for Eze is we’ve lost rashford pace and Eze can replace it plus offer more in terms of goal threat.
>Who will start to decline in the next two years and who hasn’t quite reached his peak yet but will after joining a top 6 club? That doesn't really matter right now, though, unless he has a sudden and steep decline in the next 2 weeks.
Currently Eze offers more to a team that doesn’t have rashford pace, just an opinion? Which looks like a 50-50 amongst England fans?
The ability to unlock a low block with a clever pass. I think he's maybe the only player we have who can do that. It's why he goes and Eze stays for me.
Would he play over Foden/Bellingham?
No but neither would Eze, and that's not the point as the first 11 (pretty much) picks itself. The point is we have 5 subs we can use to change a game. In my opinion Maddison has the ability to "unlock the door" when we're chasing a goal at the end of the game, with a clever pass, just like he did against Belgium in the 95th minute for Bellingham.
Maddison is more experienced, slightly better on the ball, slightly a better dead ball taker and more versatile. It’s small but Maddison over Eve to me makes sense. It’s a squad, if we want to win neither should play a minute for us
Neither of them make my starting XI, but Eze would probably get some game time for me on the left of a 3 behind the striker. Gordon makes the most sense for that position. Palmer and Foden are both better coming off the right. All depends on what formation we’ll play and what role Bellingham has. If Bellingham plays the 10, we don’t need either as Foden probably plays off the left. But I’d like to see Bellingham in the 8
Eve shouldn’t play ahead of Bowen, who’s been quality for years. Bowen is a match winner, he’s scored winners in European finals. He was a left winger when he joined West Ham. Bowen is genuinely quality but isn’t flashy because he’s so direct If we’re smart we’re starting Bellingham in midfield with Rice. Bellingham might be the best player in Europe right now, but, Foden is up with him. The drop off of losing Bellingham at 10 and having Foden is less than playing Foden out of position and having Bellingham at 10
I rated Bowen in the Belgium match, always seemed to offer something. We're so ridiculously stacked in the front third that it's nigh unbelievable. Just need to be in the match at the 70min mark to see anyone off, to be honest.
Bowen is quality. I genuinely believe he’s as good as Saka on the left, and a bit more adaptable. He’s just stuck playing for West Ham. Italy and Germany pick him because they pick players not from top clubs. Bowen was also pure quality against Brazil. He’s clearly at the international level. But as you said, look at our forwards. We’ve got Bowen, Saka, Palmer, and Grealish. Still no proper dead on left winger which we didn’t have in 06, even though we have left footed wingers
We have loads of players who aren't from top clubs. In this squad alone we have: Toney, Bowen, Dunk, Eze, Wharton, Guehi, Pickford, Gordon, Watkins and Maddison.
Only one who didn’t have to claw his way into the squad was Pickford. The rest literally got overlooked till made it impossible to be ignored
Ah yes Wharton, who everyone was surprised to see included, was "impossible to ignore."
100% agree with your second point and I’ve said almost exactly that elsewhere I also agree that Eze shouldn’t play over Bowen but I hadn’t considered them as competing for the same position until now. I didn’t know Bowen had ever played on the left For me, Bellingham and Rice are the preferred midfield, and Gallagher, TAA and the kids Wharton and/or Mainoo will have to deputise. As for the attacking mids, I’d have: Gordon - Foden - Saka as the first choices Eze - Palmer - Bowen as the rotation And there’s probably still room in the squad for a Grealish idk
Unfortunately Bowen hasn’t played on the left since he joined. His first match on the left against Southampton he was fantastic. Then covid hit and the first team rejigged
Eze is a better dribbler and ball carrier then Madison
Then Grealish should be in the team. It’s not about who is better, it’s about fitting roles.
Yea man I would take Eze.
Nothing. Other than the club he plays for
Then why hasn't Oliver Skipp been called up 😤 (/j)
poorer form but longer standing name.
Bowen shouldn’t and I hope wont be dropped. He’s too versatile. He can play on the wing and lead the line. He’s also quite good infront of goal but also defensively a good presser. Basically you have him in the squad and hope you never have to play him.
Spot on.
Anyone who has watched him for more than 3 matches should know this. He should never get on the pitch, but, he’s the perfect back up
Palmer plays in the same position and is significantly better.
Those 9 penalties really gassing him up 🤡🤡🤡
You'd think so, but even without he's still quite a bit ahead. Palmer has 0.79 np G+A/90 Saka has 0.69 np G+A/90
With equal quality teammates playing equal quality football?
Saka plays for a better team, Palmer is trying to assist Jackson after all, but Palmer gets a lot more of the ball because he's so clearly the best player at Chelsea. So it evens out imo.
Palmer is a lot worse but has great PR
Please, elaborate, how exactly is Palmer worse?
Not as good at pressing. Not as good at finishing. Not as good on the ball. Palmer is flasher but Bowen is more direct which I value more
> Palmer is flasher but Bowen is more direct which I value more This is totally valid > Not as good at pressing. Palmer is top 4% for midfielders for shots created from a defensive action whereas Bowen is very middling. You can argue Bowen runs around a bit more, but Palmer's definitely much more effective at creating from pressing. > Not as good at finishing. Bowen is +0.08 on his xG and Palmer is +0.09. There's basically nothing in it; both exceptional finishers. > Not as good on the ball. I don't understand how you can say this with a straight face. Obviously Palmer is a much better creator on the ball, but he's also got 50% take on success compared to Bowen's 37%, and Palmer has 2.5 as many ball progressions/90. Even on the eye test Palmer's weight of pass and ability to create is levels above Bowen's. He creates almost double the xA as well (0.17 v 0.37) if you want to back it up with stats.
You guys with your stats are wild. Just go off vibes
I don’t look into stats like that for a chat on a football forum. Anyone can find any stat to back up any opinion (well an opinion that isn’t ludicrous). Here’s my one stat, European cup final winning goals Bowen 1 Palmer 0
I see that's the level at which you operate. In that case: Euro final winning goals Palmer 1 Bowen 0
Who would you drop instead?
Thats what im thinking. Bowen can play RW or ST. Dropping Saka or Palmer is unthinkable considering their respective seasons. Same with Kane and Watkins. We have enough squad space and we can call-up reserves in case of emergency. We don't have to worry about utility players, especially in attack.
I would take Bowen and Eze over Maddison and Grealish all day. Regards the rest I think your probably right. Jones might get in over one of Mainoo or Wharton as they place very similar positions. I would personally take Quansah too as he has been brilliant this season but I cant see Gareth going for it.
Bowen gets so much disrespect it’s unreal. 16 non pen goals 6 assists in the prem. Foden and Watkins the only players with more (who will also be going).
What disrespect? He’s in the squad and most commenters here wouldn’t cut him from the 33.
At the time I commented, no. It was mainly in response to OP.
and to be fair, I have seen a lot of people calling for him to be dropped.
Who would you drop instead? Just curious. As good as he is, he's not better at RW than Saka or Palmer for me. And he's not better up front than Kane or Watkins. Could take him since it's a 26 man squad. But feel like the extra depth in other positions could provide more value since I don't see many situations I'd rather have him on the pitch than those 4. Feel like the people saying he could get dropped aren't having a dig at Bowen. Just highlighting the fact that he's playing in a ridiculously competitive position.
Trafford, Quansah, Dunk, Jones, Wharton, Eze, Maddison. Maybe Wharton or Eze gets in for Grealish or Toney, and defenders behind the starters is a bit of a lottery.
Trafford, Quansah, Branthwaite, Wharton, Jones, Eze, Maddison
I’d have Branthwaite in over Dunk.
I’m an Everton fan so I’d 100% have Branthwaite in the squad, but I don’t think Southgate will take him purely because he didn’t play a minute the last time he was selected and Dunk did.
Dunk was awful last time he played for England, it was clear as day
I completely agree with you, but I think the fact that Branthwaite didn’t play a minute says a lot about Southgate’s preference.
I forgot about Branthwaite. I think you might be right about him.
How can you forget about Jarrad 🥲
I think it should be Dunk, but will be Branthwaite. Based purely on minutes in the last friendlies.
Agreed
I'd swap Bowen and Eze with Wharton and Maddison.
Depends on how the friendlys go. And also injuries. Shaw could be gone for example. Otherwise: Eze. Trafford. Dunk. Wharton. Toney. Id say are absolutely not going to Then two from: mainoo. Maddison. *Branthwaite* guehi. Konsa & quansah (although love the idea of that partnership at the back just for the names)
Marino is absolutely going to Germany imo, and I really hope Branthwaite makes the squad
Whatever happens, I hope Wharton stays in. We really need options in his particular position
Grealish shouldn’t make the squad
Trafford is a given. Good idea to give him the experience of this meet up but that’s the end of it for now. In terms of outfield I don’t really understand the need for or like the idea of a 26 man squad because it potentially muddles your thinking, but I’d still stick with a rough idea of 2 players per position and then you can have 3 wildcards. One thing it does do is negate the benefit of ‘versatility’ picks (eg let’s take this right back as he can also play left back and then we can take one less left back and extra forward, or whatever). With that in mind, my initial 20 would then be Maguire, Stones, Gomez, Guehi, Walker, Trent, Shaw, Trippier for the defence (and I think that’s pretty much what Southgate will go for too - yes Gomez is still a bit of a versatility pick but I think he warrants his place even without that and also with Shaw’s issues it’s probably necessary even with a larger squad) Rice, Bellingham, Foden (I’m playing him at 10, Southgate won’t), Gallagher, Mainoo, Palmer (I’m taking him as cover at 10, not as a forward) for the midfield, and Kane, Watkins, Saka, Gordon, Grealish, and Eze as forwards. So that then leaves 3 wildcard picks from Branthwaite, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Jones, Wharton, Bowen, Maddison, and Toney. I’m not convinced by Toney despite the Belgium performance but we’ve got to have a third option up front so he goes. Maddison isn’t necessary if Foden and Palmer are the 10s (with Bellingham obviously more than able to do a job there too if required). Out of the defensive options which we may as well take one of I’d probably go for Branthwaite but there’s not much in it. And then you’re left with either an extra midfielder from Jones or Wharton or the extra attacker in Bowen - I’m probably biased but I’d narrowly go for the latter but Southgate will probably be more conservative and go for an extra midfielder instead, which is probably sensible, plus if he’s putting Foden wide then we’ve already got enough forward bodies and could do with the extra midfield option. So Trafford, Maddison, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Jones, and Wharton would be the seven left out for me - but my suspicion is that Southgate’s (obviously assuming everyone comes through the camp and games fit) will be Trafford, Maddison, Dunk, Konsa, Quansah, Wharton, and Bowen.
If we are talking of wanting 2 players per position, isn’t Wharton the most likely for like replacement for Rice? Even Rice hasn’t played as an out and out 6 this season but I don’t know who else can
And that’s the problem - it’s the big weak spot in the available personnel, even more so than left back for me as that’s been made worse by injuries but there just is no ideal backup for Rice and as you say even he wouldn’t ideally be being asked to do that job but there literally isn’t another solution. Wharton may well be it, but I just don’t think he is just yet. So as much as I would aim for two players per position, I don’t really think there are two in that case. Mainoo isn’t ideal in terms of experience either (and also is probably better suited in a slightly different role) but it’s a case of needs must in that slot for now and I just think he’s the marginally less risky option. Fine margins though.
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Noble was, and probably still is, the best pen taker in Europe. Never got a cap. You shouldn’t bring players to take pens because if it gets to pens then you’ve lost. Toney shouldn’t go because Englands two 9s are Kane who is the worlds best 9, and Watkins who is the best 9 in the league this year. (Haaland had a worse season) if Kane isn’t on the pitch for penalties then we’re fucked either way
Tbf we were fucked when he was on the field as well....
Haaland was still the best 9 in the league. Just because he scored 27 instead of 36 doesn’t mean he was worst than the guy who scored 19.
Watkins played for a worse team and was more than a poacher I think Haaland is the better player but Watkins was better this year
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Only Le Tissier, Toney and Kane have a better record of those, and 2 weren't active when Noble played, and Kane just barely, which was that guy's point.
Maths not your strong suit?
He won't ever play, Kane will play every minute. What's the point, especially if his only redeeming quality is pens? So that he can be subbed on right before a shootout like rashford and sancho last time? That went well. There's plenty of great penalty takers in the team like palmer kane maddy saka.
Trafford Quansah Shaw Branthwaite Wharton Maddison Eze
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Bowen definitely as foden saka palmer can all play on the right Curtis Jones Quansah Trafford Hopefully dunk Shaw if he isn't fit if he is gomez maybe Wharton like him but likely cut
buddy, bowen can play anywhere along the front 3 and is one of the most consistent players. i’d argue drop maddison and play palmer through the middle
I would have a fucking aneurysm if the one Palace player to get cut was Eze. Eze was going to be picked by Southgate for the last Euros before getting injured. I would be shocked if he didn’t make the squad thrice in a row.
I think you’re pretty nailed on with these (excluding injuries). Eze and Maddison is a huge coin flip Maybe Bowen stays over jones but again I think that’s a bit of a 50/50
Trafford Branthwaite (unfortunately) Dunk Quansah Jones Wharton Madison
Youve got it spot on give or take one
Maddison’s had a poor season after a great start, unless he impresses a lot, I’d cut him instead of Eze
Agree except Eze in for Maddison. And it'd be a shame not to take Bowen but there's so many good players in his position.
Trafford . Dunk. Branthwaite . Jones . Maddison . Grealish . Toney
He wouldn’t dare drop Grealish
He better cause Eze and Bowen are better players
Seven need to be cut makes me feel that there is much more than Luke Shaw carrying an injury? He’s picked a lot of Centre backs, Maguire not yet fit and he also has Stones, Gomez, Dunk, Maguire, Branthwaite, Quansah, Ghuei and Ezre Konsa He takes TAA, Walker, Trippier and Shaw if fit that means he will drop 3 or 4 of those 9 CB’s. So if Maguire is fit, Dunk is the first casualty, then he picks one versatile CB/FB Gomez or Konsa, Gomez goes as he can play left back too. Ghuei is Southgate’s third pick when all CB are fit, he’s the one with genuine elite pace he goes and then his final choice is between Branthwaite and Quansah, Branthwaite goes. So I think he cuts J Trafford, L Dunk, E Konsa, J Quansah which is 4 players if Luke shaw and Maguire were 100% fit he’d drop Gomez too but they’re not. In midfield it’s far more difficult because by not picking Henderson or an out of form Phillips, he doesn’t really have a natural CDM. Bellingham, Rice, Foden, Gallagher and probably K Mainoo as he can sit in a double pivot all go, which means he has a choice between Curtis Jones and Adam Wharton, now Jones is slightly more experienced and more attacking however if TAA played in midfield, he offers the same type of character and play style, it’s pretty close, that’s why I see Adam Wharton getting a game in the friendlies as a DM and if he plays well then Curtis Jones will also be cut which now makes 5. The attacking talent have make the last two incredibly difficult to do so fairly, England have 4 elite left footed attackers, Saka, Foden, Palmer and Bowen, personally I’d take them all and I’ll explain why in a bit. Now here the first player that should be cut from the attackers and that’s Ivan Toney, he’s done very little since he’s been back played well in one international game, will be 30/31 at next World Cup and his pace is declining, yes he’s a great hold up player but England have Kane and Watkins and even if the worst case scenario we might be more effective with Foden, Palmer or Bowen as a false 9, he’s not needed and I doubt he will be part of the future, Ollie Watkins is quicker, more versatile can offer that same pace and threat from the left and he’s the in form player, Toney gets cut. Saka can also play wide left, Left wing back, Palmer, Bowen and Foden are also super versatile and can play in multiple positions this is why you take them all, we don’t have enough lefties to leave even one out? The final player to cut is the most difficult, Maddison, Grealish, Gordon, Eze any three from four but if it’s based on form and in particular current form, then Eze and Antony Gordon must go. Grealish for me based on his ability to play the Maddison role just has the small advantage of being a player who can draw fouls, is used to wining and offers something just a little different plus Maddison since his return from injury been average at best. So I’m saying as hard as this is, the seven players to be cut should be James Trafford, Ezri Konsa, Lewis Dunk, Jarell Quansah, Curtis Jones, Ivan Toney and James Maddison. Eberechi Eze is the most inform player right now, can play 8, 10 wide left has pace and the X factor to score a goal from nothing, leaving him behind would make a mockery of dropping Rashford, he has the same type of penetration like Gordon does, Maddison offers only the same that Grealish or to a lesser extent Kobie Mainoo who is clearly a better at beating a man and opening up a low block with those mazy dribbles, I’m thinking of the future too, Madison with all his injuries may not be in the next WC at 31, Kobbie Mainoo and Adam Wharton could be regulars for the next decade.
Really good post and I agree with all of it, Eze can’t be dropped!
I think this will be the 7, though I’d personally rather have Bowen over Maddison. Bowen gives you an extra striker, if needed, and Maddison has been non existent for weeks now.
Dean Henderson Lewis Dunk Marc Guehi Jarell Quansah Curtis Jones Adam Wharton Jarrod Bowen
From your OPs list I don't think Dunk, Bowen or Toney gets dropped. I don't think Shaw will make it, Braithwaite and Wharton also dropped.
Leaving Eze behind would be the perfect encapsulation of Southgate's 'reign'.
So dramatic.
Without drama, what are we.
A happy society.
Hmmm, are you a pagan?
Would be a shame to see such a wildcard like Eze leave the squad
Eze and Bowen should go imo. Eze is in great form and Bowen had a very good season. I'd cut; Trafford - for obvious reasons Dunk - not good enough Quansah - don't need that much cover Jones - not good enough Grealish - terrible season and should suffer the same fate as Rashford Maddison - out of form Guehi - unless we need extra defensive cover because of the injuries, in which case it'd be Toney.
Trafford, Quansah, Braithwaite, Dunk, Jones, Maddison, Toney
Trafford Quansah Jones Grealish Wharton Toney Konsa
Wharton might stay - we really don't have many options in his position
I think he will take konsa as he covers two positions
Henderson, Quansah, Dunk, Guehi, Maddison, Eze, Grealish
I think Jones should be super close to the first 11, would be really sad if he was cut.
Everyone saying Grealish shouldn't be in the squad will be the same ones wondering why we can't create chances against a team playing a low block.
Grealish won’t play in those games anyway.
I’d be dropping Trent and taking Toney. If Kane get injured we’d have one striker in the squad. In past tournaments we always had a back up strike rand rashford just in case but we don’t have anyone that can do that. And id take Bowen over grealish. Neither will start and I can’t see Grealish getting a goal coming off the bench.
You’d drop one of the most creative players in the squad… 🤦♂️
Who’s that then?
It feels harsh on bowen, I'd probably take Eze over maddison purely as he's been dire in 2024 but the rest I'd agree with
- Henderson Him and Trafford have had good seasons in terms of performances. Trafford I think offers more as he has experience of a big competitions. England U21 won the Euros in 2023 and Trafford saved a penalty in the last minute to win England the game. England conceded 0 goals at the championships, 6 clean sheets for Trafford Trafford is also seen as the future for England so I think the experience will do him a lot more good. - Toney With Bowen, Palmer, Watkins, Kane all able to play as a Striker he isn’t needed. - Quansah Had a good breakthrough season for Liverpool but just hasn’t been as good as the rest of the CBs imo. - Guehi Similar to Quansah, just hadn’t had as good of a season as the rest. (If Luke Shaw is injured I think Guehi will then make the squad as he can cover the LCB role in a back three and could also do a job as a defensive LB in an emergency) - Jones He has had one of the weakest seasons of the midfielders this season. He has the advantage that he could cover the LW position. But I don’t think he is needed unfortunately. - Mainoo The Midfielders were the hardest to decide for me. I think we have enough options in defensive midfield. We will have Rice doing this almost the entire time. If he gets injured we have Rice, Stones, Trent, Gallagher that could do a job helping with the defending in an emergency. - Wharton Similar to Mainoo I don’t think we need him. Players like Eze and Maddison have had such a strong season and for me. The more options we have at LW the better.
Mainoo and Wharton are the only two that are natural partners to Rice in a double pivot. Stones could do it but he's too important to our defence. Trent isn't great at it because he's positionally too attack-minded. Gallagher can do it but I would say it's more a consequence of his work rate than his natural positioning. Gallagher and Mainoo are the only two that played alongside Rice in our last two friendlies against Brazil and Belgium, and Southgate must have seen enough that he didn't feel the need to press the panic button and recall Henderson. So, I don't think there's any chance that Mainoo will be sent home. I think Gallagher will be ahead of him but only on seniority, and Mainoo could easily claim the place by playing well enough. I do think Wharton will be sent home but only based on squad cohesion rather than his ability.
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If we have Rice injured, Rice to come in? One of the three inexperienced CMs are being cut, maybe 2. No chance of all them.
I hope it is Gallagher for the love of god
I agree with most of your picks: Trafford, Quansah, Jones, Toney But, I think he'll also get rid of: Shaw (I have doubts that he'll make it in time), Wharton and Guehi Some tough calls to make, but rather have that than not enough options, eh?
I might be letting my liverpool bias show here but I throughly believe Quansah is going to be twice the player Branthwaite is And at this point in time I think he’s probably as good if not better too. Throw a remind me in 1/2 years on this and I will happily prove myself right
Trafford Quansah Dunk Konsa Wharton Maddison Bowen