We played 3 atb in the extra time period. With Guehi out next game, and Trent now being rested, this how you can fit in ‘everyone’ that we’re clamouring for:
Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa 3atb
Trent RWB, Saka/Shaw LWB
Rice 6
Bellingham 6/8
Foden and Palmer as two 10s that float around, Kane stays high
At times you can have 3 CBs
At times you can have 3 CMs (Rice, Bellingham, Stones steps up into CDM)
At times you can have 3 CAMs (Bellingham, Foden, Palmer)
Trent actually to play more like a CM at times or a classic 442 RM like Beckham, Walker has the speed to cover
Saka bombs on and is available for Trent’s diagonals, whips in crosses with his left
I’ve done it lads, that’s the system.
Anyone got Gareth’s number?
Anyone else see flags like [this](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61GOuYYLe5L._AC_SL1000_.jpg) out in the wild? Can't decide if it's worth saving a few quid for a knockoff.
Is there any website that tells you how many mins the ball was in-play?
I’ve been so disappointed this Euros with how much more time waiting we’ve been seeing, and the refs not adding on the time.
Think lots of England games have been far, far lower than they should have been.
When can we as England give into our primal instincts and play 4-4-2?
Imagine.
Pickford in goal.
Walker RB, Stones RCB, Guehi LCB and Tripper LB.
Saka/Palmer RW, Rice MC (defensive), Bellingham MC (offensive), Foden/Gordon LW.
Kane and Toney/Watkins up front.
You know it makes sense Gaz. English players playing 4-4-2 instantly get a +30% increase in ability. Look what big Sean Dyche has done at Everton with a squad that bad.
Yet all the people in this sub who are better managers than Southgate think England should have beaten them 17-0. They give no credit to how well the opposition play. Slovenia proving again they are very hard to break down.
I know that age group football is not comparable to men's football in many ways, but what's concerning in the short-term (and promising in the long-term) is the sheer disconnect between how England teams are taught to play at those levels and how they're set up for the actual NT.
That seems to be a complete contradiction of the post-2016 overhaul and to work against a system that's clearly designed to erode the natural problem with international football (lack of familiarity, the inability to implement the same tactics and coaching as club football, etc.).
The U21s play on the front foot with a lot of width, they press high, they're proactive rather than reactive... And you see a lot of that carrying through with the players that have graduated from being under that system for their entire careers, like Palmer, Gordon, Mainoo, etc.
I just think there is a system there that many of the players are actually quite familiar with and can thrive under if Southgate had taken the steps to implement that continuity. And also that may be the reason that some bigger names might actually need to take a back seat for a bit if we're to play like a team with this cohesive philosophy.
Unpopular opinion: we have the most disgustingly hateful and negative fans + media in the world, and that legit contributes to how the team performs.
Constructive criticism is clearly needed, but we’ve actually gotten better over the tournament. Try having some fun and getting behind the team that’s gone further than Italy you bunch of soppy cunts ❤️
Stones, Guehi, Walker and Rice all in the top 10 players by number of passes made across all teams so far in the tournament. I'm just so tired of watching us pass it around at the back.
[https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/statistics/players/distribution/?sortBy=passes\_attempted&order=desc](https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/statistics/players/distribution/?sortBy=passes_attempted&order=desc)
I'm not being funny right... but didn't we all beg Southgate to stay after Qatar?
I've seen so many (justified) posts criticising SG, "how much of a lucky fuck" he is and whatnot. But we had our chance to replace him and nobody wanted it.
I hate to agree with the stuck-up players in the interviews saying to just get behind them, but I actually wish we would — flukey, or not.
The saddest thing having watched the game back + watched some of the Serbia game again is that we are the same. There is a slightly difference balance to the midfield which absolutely killed us yesterday, but overall the issues we have are the same issues we had in the friendlies and every single game this tournament.
It isnt working, it will never work and Southgate and the coaching team are complict in that. What are they even doing post game or is Southgate such a dictator that he can only have yes men?
The only instance I can think of where a manager has constantly set up a team to fail is that Dutch guy at Palace and he was sacked after 5 games. This is an England team that isnt playing well because of Southgate's insistence on reinventing the wheel and yet we have made no changes to the starting XI other than the RCM.
Chatgpt could set the team up better than Southgate.
I don't want to make a whole new post about this opinion so I'll throw it in here.
My club team is Juve, not going to waste space with reasons but, as an English person I'm genuinely excited by what's we're doing. And I'm starting to think my perspective has been warped by the madness of Al-legri-terror-ball that Juve have had the last few seasons. A club with a history of winning, some genuinely decent players, and a manger who refused to utilise people properly, played intensely defensive 'safe' tactics, grab a goal, corta muso football. For a few years now Juve have looked like a team with zero game plan and a reliance on hoping our good players produce a moment of magic.
And now I'm watching England like omgosh we're actually passing the ball and not conceding possession constantly haha I'm thrilled at the result last night. Absolutely classic terrorball. I think Allegri has poisoned my brain or something haha
All joking aside, I get that we *should* be, we *could* be, playing better and Southgate makes substitutions too late and all of that. But I listened to BBCs Football Daily and Gary's Rest is Football and these guys are way too negative. If Fodon has half a yard slower we score, Rice hit the post, we made some great runs and plays (yes it could be better and it's way below the individual talent) but come on! We're in the Quarters again! Before 2018 I'd resigned myself to believe England would pretty much never ever win a knockout game and now look at us!
So my call to anyone who reads this far, grab some Allegri juice. Get positive. Enjoy it. And when your mates start complaining, shut them up! It's coming home lads. (Well it probably won't... but lets have fun please!)
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I really think the plan with Luke Shaw, when the squad was announced, was that he would miss the first two group games but play a part in the third against Slovenia. He was in full training after Denmark ([source](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/england-euro2024-luke-shaw-injury-33093783)) at which point I'm guessing that was all on track. But what looks to have happened is that he's had a setback which meant he had to go back to training on his own ([source](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13554587/Luke-Shaw-training-England-turn-attention-final-group-game-doubts-growing-chances-playing-Euro-2024.html)) and then couldn't play Denmark. I bet they would have loved to have given him 15-20 mins against Slovakia last night, but obviously circumstances dictated that he couldn't be risked.
Southgate is now saying he "has a chance" for Saturday ([source](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40262036/gareth-southgate-expects-luke-shaw-fit-england-euro-2024)) - I really think at this point we should say fuck it and start him, give him an hour and hope we're in a comfortable enough position to take him off for Trippier to see the game out. For what it's worth, I'd also drop Walker (comfortably our worst player at this tournament) for Trent.
But I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying "WhY DiD SoUThgAtE brINg aN inJURed plaYEr????"
Trippier is seriously costing the team at the moment. Ian Wright is unironically correct when he says we should use Saka at left back - so much more balance having a left footer there
Gareth is costing the team at the moment. Gareth is watching the team day in day out lol. If he played Pickford at LB you wouldnt shit on Pickford would you.
Saka shouldnt play LB. He doesnt have the positional awareness to play there and had issues at LB. Play Gomez who has played LB at club level.
That is true, but individually Trippier has been woeful. Obviously it doesn't help it's not his natural position but you can really tell that's the case.
Yesterday was the first time I was somewhat disappointed to see an England goal. After 90 more minutes of that shit I was ready to call the tournament a day, see Southgate pack his bags and start a new era with a new coach. The further we go into the tournament the more justification the FA will have to just let him stay on. We all know we’re not capable of winning anything under this regime and this team is far less than the sum of its parts. We can only hope that, despite the result of this tournament, the FA can see sense and we, as fans, can actually begin to _enjoy_ watching our national team.
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Not a comment on what came before it but Bellingham's goal was one of the best moments of my England-supporting life. Are you seriously saying you didn't enjoy it, and that you were disappointed it went in?
Scrapping past a terrible Slovakia in the 95 minute bein the best moment is pretty embarrassing but guess it sums up how awful england have been. Dont really have any moments or memories of beating a relevant team.
This is a bit sad to be honest. Disappointed to see your country win and progress to the QF. Granted, it’s not been easy watching us this tournament. But look at it this way, imagine if our run was this instead..
Group stage:
Play Iceland and draw 1-1. Play Austria and draw 1-1. Play Hungary and draw 3-3.
Somehow make it through to the Round of 16.
Snatch a 1-0 win against Croatia. Through to the QF.
Get taken to pens by Poland, yet luckily win. Through to the semis.
Beat Wales 2-0. In to the final.
Scrape a win against France and win the final 1-0.
That was Portugal at Euro 2016. They were pretty atrocious. Yet they can look back and say “Yep we won the Euros.” You think they give a shit about how poorly they played? Do you think they wish they had gone out because they played poorly?
Criticise the team and the management all you want. But being disappointed that we didn’t go out, just so that we can get a new manager (which, by the way does not guarantee success) is ridiculous.
We don't deserve to progress, nor do we want to be put through anymore of this nonsense, it's absolutely appalling to watch and depressing.
I'm a Liverpool supporter, going from Klopp ball to Southgate ball is a chasm of difference I'll never be able to surmise.
You can't blame people for having enough when there is very little to indicate that there is any hope currently.
People who think we can win anything playing like that with Southgate are just delusional. You can point to Portugal but that team was far better coached, Southgate would get battered by Poland and that Croatia, even their current versions would beat us.. We play like San Marino. Can't defend, can't attack, we have one of the worst managers in international football.
for an equivalent to England you'd have to find an example of some like 50th-70th ranked place team who's won a major tournament cause that's what we play like.
Who’s saying we can win it? That wasn’t the question.
Yeah you can point to Portugal. They won one game in normal time during that tournament. To say they were “better coached” is almost ironic as Santos was known for doing exactly what Southgate is doing at this tournament (and has done historically) which is trying to go a goal up and then parking the bus. The same mud thrown at Southgate about wasting generational talent, was said about Santos after that Euros.
Regardless of what you think about Southgate, aside from not actually winning a tournament, he is our most successful manager since Sir Alf, and has won more tournament matches than pretty much all of our managers combined since ‘66.
It’s not that I don’t _want_ to see us progress. Obviously I’d be as delighted as any of us if we were to actually win something. It’s just after 90+ minutes yesterday I was just so resigned to defeat that when we actually came back it felt more like a stay of execution. I’m just exhausted by this tournament and not in a good way.
I’m right there with ya on the exhaustion part mate! Was so difficult to watch, not just yesterday but everything apart from the first 25 mins against Serbia has pretty much been atrocious
Just to have it recorded in writing If England make it to the final I will give £50 to charity If they win it I give £100 to charity
We played 3 atb in the extra time period. With Guehi out next game, and Trent now being rested, this how you can fit in ‘everyone’ that we’re clamouring for: Pickford Walker Stones Konsa 3atb Trent RWB, Saka/Shaw LWB Rice 6 Bellingham 6/8 Foden and Palmer as two 10s that float around, Kane stays high At times you can have 3 CBs At times you can have 3 CMs (Rice, Bellingham, Stones steps up into CDM) At times you can have 3 CAMs (Bellingham, Foden, Palmer) Trent actually to play more like a CM at times or a classic 442 RM like Beckham, Walker has the speed to cover Saka bombs on and is available for Trent’s diagonals, whips in crosses with his left I’ve done it lads, that’s the system. Anyone got Gareth’s number?
Anyone else see flags like [this](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61GOuYYLe5L._AC_SL1000_.jpg) out in the wild? Can't decide if it's worth saving a few quid for a knockoff.
Is there any website that tells you how many mins the ball was in-play? I’ve been so disappointed this Euros with how much more time waiting we’ve been seeing, and the refs not adding on the time. Think lots of England games have been far, far lower than they should have been.
When can we as England give into our primal instincts and play 4-4-2? Imagine. Pickford in goal. Walker RB, Stones RCB, Guehi LCB and Tripper LB. Saka/Palmer RW, Rice MC (defensive), Bellingham MC (offensive), Foden/Gordon LW. Kane and Toney/Watkins up front. You know it makes sense Gaz. English players playing 4-4-2 instantly get a +30% increase in ability. Look what big Sean Dyche has done at Everton with a squad that bad.
Slovenia playing very nicely against Portugal
Yet all the people in this sub who are better managers than Southgate think England should have beaten them 17-0. They give no credit to how well the opposition play. Slovenia proving again they are very hard to break down.
I know that age group football is not comparable to men's football in many ways, but what's concerning in the short-term (and promising in the long-term) is the sheer disconnect between how England teams are taught to play at those levels and how they're set up for the actual NT. That seems to be a complete contradiction of the post-2016 overhaul and to work against a system that's clearly designed to erode the natural problem with international football (lack of familiarity, the inability to implement the same tactics and coaching as club football, etc.). The U21s play on the front foot with a lot of width, they press high, they're proactive rather than reactive... And you see a lot of that carrying through with the players that have graduated from being under that system for their entire careers, like Palmer, Gordon, Mainoo, etc. I just think there is a system there that many of the players are actually quite familiar with and can thrive under if Southgate had taken the steps to implement that continuity. And also that may be the reason that some bigger names might actually need to take a back seat for a bit if we're to play like a team with this cohesive philosophy.
Unpopular opinion: we have the most disgustingly hateful and negative fans + media in the world, and that legit contributes to how the team performs. Constructive criticism is clearly needed, but we’ve actually gotten better over the tournament. Try having some fun and getting behind the team that’s gone further than Italy you bunch of soppy cunts ❤️
What is the issue with Gomez? Does Southgate not like him, has he been in poor form, or is there any other issue? Many thanks
Southgate is incompetent, that's the only reason.
Stones, Guehi, Walker and Rice all in the top 10 players by number of passes made across all teams so far in the tournament. I'm just so tired of watching us pass it around at the back. [https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/statistics/players/distribution/?sortBy=passes\_attempted&order=desc](https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/statistics/players/distribution/?sortBy=passes_attempted&order=desc)
We had over 800 passes yesterday... 2 shots on goal.
I'm not being funny right... but didn't we all beg Southgate to stay after Qatar? I've seen so many (justified) posts criticising SG, "how much of a lucky fuck" he is and whatnot. But we had our chance to replace him and nobody wanted it. I hate to agree with the stuck-up players in the interviews saying to just get behind them, but I actually wish we would — flukey, or not.
The saddest thing having watched the game back + watched some of the Serbia game again is that we are the same. There is a slightly difference balance to the midfield which absolutely killed us yesterday, but overall the issues we have are the same issues we had in the friendlies and every single game this tournament. It isnt working, it will never work and Southgate and the coaching team are complict in that. What are they even doing post game or is Southgate such a dictator that he can only have yes men? The only instance I can think of where a manager has constantly set up a team to fail is that Dutch guy at Palace and he was sacked after 5 games. This is an England team that isnt playing well because of Southgate's insistence on reinventing the wheel and yet we have made no changes to the starting XI other than the RCM. Chatgpt could set the team up better than Southgate.
I don't want to make a whole new post about this opinion so I'll throw it in here. My club team is Juve, not going to waste space with reasons but, as an English person I'm genuinely excited by what's we're doing. And I'm starting to think my perspective has been warped by the madness of Al-legri-terror-ball that Juve have had the last few seasons. A club with a history of winning, some genuinely decent players, and a manger who refused to utilise people properly, played intensely defensive 'safe' tactics, grab a goal, corta muso football. For a few years now Juve have looked like a team with zero game plan and a reliance on hoping our good players produce a moment of magic. And now I'm watching England like omgosh we're actually passing the ball and not conceding possession constantly haha I'm thrilled at the result last night. Absolutely classic terrorball. I think Allegri has poisoned my brain or something haha All joking aside, I get that we *should* be, we *could* be, playing better and Southgate makes substitutions too late and all of that. But I listened to BBCs Football Daily and Gary's Rest is Football and these guys are way too negative. If Fodon has half a yard slower we score, Rice hit the post, we made some great runs and plays (yes it could be better and it's way below the individual talent) but come on! We're in the Quarters again! Before 2018 I'd resigned myself to believe England would pretty much never ever win a knockout game and now look at us! So my call to anyone who reads this far, grab some Allegri juice. Get positive. Enjoy it. And when your mates start complaining, shut them up! It's coming home lads. (Well it probably won't... but lets have fun please!)
Does anyone know where England fans will sit on Saturday? looking to buy a ticket but don't want to end up with the Swiss.
Who comes in for Guehi? And probably Trippier? Surely we can't trust Shaw to start?
Gomez can do both roles and is the most experienced. It’s whether Walker or something even more radical happens at LB and Trent comes in at RB.
Konsa would be my choice but knowing Southgate it'll probably be Dunk or somet
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At this rate, Aaron Ramsdale and Dean Henderson will be playing left-back for England before Joe Gomez.
I really think the plan with Luke Shaw, when the squad was announced, was that he would miss the first two group games but play a part in the third against Slovenia. He was in full training after Denmark ([source](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/england-euro2024-luke-shaw-injury-33093783)) at which point I'm guessing that was all on track. But what looks to have happened is that he's had a setback which meant he had to go back to training on his own ([source](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13554587/Luke-Shaw-training-England-turn-attention-final-group-game-doubts-growing-chances-playing-Euro-2024.html)) and then couldn't play Denmark. I bet they would have loved to have given him 15-20 mins against Slovakia last night, but obviously circumstances dictated that he couldn't be risked. Southgate is now saying he "has a chance" for Saturday ([source](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40262036/gareth-southgate-expects-luke-shaw-fit-england-euro-2024)) - I really think at this point we should say fuck it and start him, give him an hour and hope we're in a comfortable enough position to take him off for Trippier to see the game out. For what it's worth, I'd also drop Walker (comfortably our worst player at this tournament) for Trent. But I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying "WhY DiD SoUThgAtE brINg aN inJURed plaYEr????"
Trippier is seriously costing the team at the moment. Ian Wright is unironically correct when he says we should use Saka at left back - so much more balance having a left footer there
Gareth is costing the team at the moment. Gareth is watching the team day in day out lol. If he played Pickford at LB you wouldnt shit on Pickford would you. Saka shouldnt play LB. He doesnt have the positional awareness to play there and had issues at LB. Play Gomez who has played LB at club level.
It’s not even about trippier being right footed, it’s that he has no left foot at all. Absolutely kills anything going down that side
The only one costing the team is Southgate
That is true, but individually Trippier has been woeful. Obviously it doesn't help it's not his natural position but you can really tell that's the case.
Play back 3 with Saka at wing back but he didn't want to bring Branthwaite
The bloke is clueless. He 100% starts the same team but has Dunk in for Guehi
Dunk to score the only goal from a corner which further cements Safegates ideas in his mind.
Yesterday was the first time I was somewhat disappointed to see an England goal. After 90 more minutes of that shit I was ready to call the tournament a day, see Southgate pack his bags and start a new era with a new coach. The further we go into the tournament the more justification the FA will have to just let him stay on. We all know we’re not capable of winning anything under this regime and this team is far less than the sum of its parts. We can only hope that, despite the result of this tournament, the FA can see sense and we, as fans, can actually begin to _enjoy_ watching our national team.
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Not a comment on what came before it but Bellingham's goal was one of the best moments of my England-supporting life. Are you seriously saying you didn't enjoy it, and that you were disappointed it went in?
Scrapping past a terrible Slovakia in the 95 minute bein the best moment is pretty embarrassing but guess it sums up how awful england have been. Dont really have any moments or memories of beating a relevant team.
🚨🚨 Celebration police!!! 🚨🚨
This is a bit sad to be honest. Disappointed to see your country win and progress to the QF. Granted, it’s not been easy watching us this tournament. But look at it this way, imagine if our run was this instead.. Group stage: Play Iceland and draw 1-1. Play Austria and draw 1-1. Play Hungary and draw 3-3. Somehow make it through to the Round of 16. Snatch a 1-0 win against Croatia. Through to the QF. Get taken to pens by Poland, yet luckily win. Through to the semis. Beat Wales 2-0. In to the final. Scrape a win against France and win the final 1-0. That was Portugal at Euro 2016. They were pretty atrocious. Yet they can look back and say “Yep we won the Euros.” You think they give a shit about how poorly they played? Do you think they wish they had gone out because they played poorly? Criticise the team and the management all you want. But being disappointed that we didn’t go out, just so that we can get a new manager (which, by the way does not guarantee success) is ridiculous.
We don't deserve to progress, nor do we want to be put through anymore of this nonsense, it's absolutely appalling to watch and depressing. I'm a Liverpool supporter, going from Klopp ball to Southgate ball is a chasm of difference I'll never be able to surmise. You can't blame people for having enough when there is very little to indicate that there is any hope currently.
People who think we can win anything playing like that with Southgate are just delusional. You can point to Portugal but that team was far better coached, Southgate would get battered by Poland and that Croatia, even their current versions would beat us.. We play like San Marino. Can't defend, can't attack, we have one of the worst managers in international football. for an equivalent to England you'd have to find an example of some like 50th-70th ranked place team who's won a major tournament cause that's what we play like.
Who’s saying we can win it? That wasn’t the question. Yeah you can point to Portugal. They won one game in normal time during that tournament. To say they were “better coached” is almost ironic as Santos was known for doing exactly what Southgate is doing at this tournament (and has done historically) which is trying to go a goal up and then parking the bus. The same mud thrown at Southgate about wasting generational talent, was said about Santos after that Euros. Regardless of what you think about Southgate, aside from not actually winning a tournament, he is our most successful manager since Sir Alf, and has won more tournament matches than pretty much all of our managers combined since ‘66.
It’s not that I don’t _want_ to see us progress. Obviously I’d be as delighted as any of us if we were to actually win something. It’s just after 90+ minutes yesterday I was just so resigned to defeat that when we actually came back it felt more like a stay of execution. I’m just exhausted by this tournament and not in a good way.
I’m right there with ya on the exhaustion part mate! Was so difficult to watch, not just yesterday but everything apart from the first 25 mins against Serbia has pretty much been atrocious