There is no basement just slab on grade. Land is cheap. They don't interfere with development.
They get cheap Canadian lumber.
They have no minimum wage and their immigrants have construction skills.
There are more reasons but here is the start.
They're not as bad as you think. I built a custom 2600 sq ft home in Ontario 5 years ago. Foundation was sound 60k. Had the old home demolished and the excavation for new done by the same guy, he was 10k-15k. The price would've been lower on concrete, but my cheap hole guy screwed up so I had to do the full 9ft walls instead of 5ft plus a framed wall on top.
I mean, it's not exactly cheap, and it's more expensive post covid for sure. But, that was a single foundation poured by a company that normally does subdivisions where they give better rates since the equipment doesn't have to travel.
Another thing, there's actually zero reason why we need to do foundations this way in the first place. It's just what we do because it's how things were always done in the past. The most economical foundation is a post and beam, followed by an engineered slab on grade. Both of those weren't as viable in the past due to limitations with insulation, but there's zero reason not to use them now. You can insulate the slab and heat the entire home using a boiler hooked up to in floor heating. With post and beam, you frame in an insulated void underneath the structure which is conditioned by the forced air hvac system.
The reason things are expensive in Canada is because of government intervention into the process, and a lack of will to improve the trades shortage. It's not because of foundations.
"FEMA gave Texas a score of 10 percent because the state follows outdated codes published in 2012 and gives municipalities “broad discretion to modify” the codes. Texas didn’t receive a score of 0 because major cities such San Antonio have modified the state codes to be highly stringent."
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/)
[https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/)
I’ve lived in both Canada and the USA. It’s shameful the way Canadians talk about Americans. I was surprised when I was down there as most Americans had only positive things to say about Canadians. Made me feel bad.
Canadians have an huge inferiority complex. I've lived and been to school in both too. Canadians have no identity except to claim to be better than Americans. Americans really have little to say on Canadians except when they do, its reasonable and kind. Canadians pride themselves on being polite, but are actually mostly passive aggressive. Go to any international airport, and you will inevitably find the coarsest, foul mouthed, group of youth are usually Canadian.
My brother in Christ I live in Vegas. Born in Calgary. To my Vegas friends that ask me about Canada they have nothin but nice things to say. When I’m home I’m blasted by fucking stupid healthcare “facts” and asked why I would live there lol it’s so annoying to see the exact same type of people hate one another due to our little border line. Most Canadians I know would enjoy America and it really just seems like the news has everyone twisted lol
Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's an age thing, but the Canadians I know are well aware that our healthcare has plenty of issues like wait times for MRIs that you can get past by going to the states. Most still think its way better here but it's hardly all rosey.
Meanwhile you don't have to look far to find left leaning American media that makes it sound like America is a hellscape.
100%. Born and raised in the US. Have been living in Canada for over 6 years now. Overwhelming Majority of Canadians I talk to talk down on the US.
Have never experienced US folks talking down on Canadians.
I think it’s because of a few factors:
1. So many Canadians do this so it’s a sort of “norm”
2. Way more Canadians watch US television/media/news than the other way around.
3. I also feel like Canada waves the free healthcare flag when bashing the US. However, most middle class folks have free healthcare in the US, and make much more money that the Canadian counterparts.
Americans have done it to themselves. Their society is all about me, me, me. They don't give a fuck about any but themselves. They've fucked Canada for years by strong arming us. NAFTA has ensured the US gets to fuck Canada as much as they want.
I work with Americans and they have positive things to say about Canada because we give a fuck about other people. We learn American history and geography in school and try to be a positive influence in the world.
You couldn't pay me to feel bad for Americans. They created all this negative sentiment towards them around the world. Their own doing.
For reference, they have much more lax codes in Texas than Canada and depending on where you live, your home insurance is through to roof or you can't get any insurance at all because you're guaranteed to be hit with flooding.
When did we forget all the bullshit that the US has put Canada through? It's disgusting to try to stand up for America.
Go look at the economic impact they've had on Canada. They haven't done us any favors, they abuse us because we're between a rock and a hard place with constant vague threats.
Or you know, actual tariffs that had huge impact on us.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/](https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/)
I lived in the US too. I guess it depends on where you lived. I have a high opinion of people in Michigan but holy shit I couldn't stand all the outward racism I saw in the Carolinas....and just how completely out of touch they were with most things. They might as well been two different countries
I've stayed at several McMansions in the southern US, (mostly in Florida) for big family vacations with my in-laws. I'm always blown away by the shoddy finishing work and low quality materials, cabinetry and finishes used inside and outside of them.
"FEMA gave Texas a score of 10 percent because the state follows outdated codes published in 2012 and gives municipalities “broad discretion to modify” the codes. Texas didn’t receive a score of 0 because major cities such San Antonio have modified the state codes to be highly stringent."
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/)
[https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/)
GTA homes are indeed built like shit, but the ones in Texas aren't great either because there is even less regulation
The ones in Texas are graded against a higher scale. FEMA’s ratings are intended for disaster resilience. Can’t just look at the numbers without context.
For sure, Texas is a code/zoning free for all, overall. But it’s also a highly litigious state with a lot of guns, lol…
>Newfoundland catches only allowed to be sold in Newfoundland and outside Canada.
wait... WHAT?!
I need source on this. And what about seafood from rest of the maritime? And for the love of all that is holy, why!?
We send our trees in the states to buy them back in 2x6 2x4 plywood etc.
We get fucked hard.
Same with our minerals. Send our ore to china to then buy it back
We have more free trade with the states than amoung the provinces. Also we export most of our lumber to the states directly and then provincially each one imports from the states. Sort like everything in this country
Things that should be cheap here oil,wood,wheat we have to pay world prices for and things cheap else where like milk, cheese ,internet we have to pay local prices for. Those cartels know what they are doing.
That is the answer.
Coworker lives there.
Can confirm Mexican labor is cheap , no basements means less cost and labor, exchange rate benefits them by 30%,
The problem in Canada is that our currency is highly devalued currently at 27% on the banking market but effectively 35-40% for companies and individuals.
We buy more from the US economy and From ours to build homes. Just today a can of paint cost me $67 + 15% tax. That same can costs $48 in Texas +6.25%.
Americans also get taxes less 36% vs our 43% (average). However our tax rates hit us at a much lower threshold. So we get dinged harder for making less money.
If our trusted government can pay off debt, stop sending money abroad, balance budgets instead of buying votes then our currency will improve and housing, food and other items will cost less.
Like you said, your comment is a start but on of the biggest factors is they have absolutely no issue with sprawl, give less than no shits about land rights, environmental concerns, in 90% of the state. They just build as much as fast as possible and they haven't stopped in decades.
Add that to what you say and you can actually build more than needed even with the constant population boom Texas has.
Material aside, it comes down to Houston isn’t a tier 1 city in the US. Americans have a lot more mobility than us. If you pair tier 1 city to tier 1 city, Toronto is still cheaper than your New York and SF of the world. Globally Toronto isn’t on that level, but it is Canada’s version of New York sadly.
Im from Toronto and moved to NYC, like many I used to also compare Toronto to NYC, I can tell you without a doubt Toronto is not even close to NYC. NYC is 10x the size of toronto and a different beast.
Toronto is similar to Chicago.
Houston isn’t a tier 1 city in the US, WTF IS FLAMBOROUGH sand PARIS and MARKHAM these are tier 10 cities/towns in that case and their houses cost more than Houstons
Unfortunately, Flamborough, Paris and Markham can all tie their real estate values to proximity…. To Toronto.
I bet you there’s quite a few “commuters”
Minimum wage is definitely lower down there, and yes you can pay undocumented workers less. Actually a lot of construction workers are either Guatemalan, and El Salvadorans. Quite a bit of the Mexican population have pretty decent high paying white collar jobs.
The other thing to look into is the basement, and if there is one. Down south where the ground doesn’t freeze, they can pour a slab and build without a basement which saves on the requirements for a floor of work.
No basement due to prone to flooding and ground water problem since houston is at sea level build on a giant swamp/ estuary at the mouth of gulf of Mexico. Hurricanes doesn't help either.
I'd advise anyone to look into Texas property taxes. All that glitters isn't gold.
However, Texas receives a large stream of men who actually know how to build homes quite well, via illegal immigration. Yes, illegal immigrants work in construction, and sometimes, build their own businesses.
Canada gets University of Uber Eats students who build nothing but gridlock with their bikes when trying to exit or enter the GO train.
Facts. Amazing how Canada doesn't realize this.
Enough of the "business" students. If you really want to get more immigrants at least get the builders, the doctors and the nurses.
I used to roof and the Mexicans were the hardest workers there! That being said I have a Guatemalan friend who’s the biggest slug I’ve ever met. Depends how you’re raised I guess
My roommate in university came from Leamington and worked agricultural jobs in the summer. He was one of the more productive Canadian workers but he said the Mexican TFWs used to work “crazy fast” and would probably pick 30% more than him on a good day. They’re super hard workers.
It's not that Canada doesn't want those illegal 'construction' immigrants, but it is that they DONT want to come here lol. 6 months of freezing + its not easy to just walk into Canadian border from that far...& overall canadian life/economy isn't attractive to them as well...
The US actually has productive industry so they don't need to trade houses back and forth to make money. Jokes aside it isn't all rosy - the US has more than its fair share of sky-high RE markets i.e. the Bay area, Seattle, NYC, Boston, pretty much any city in socal. Even Austin is getting up there. Also the US isn't run entirely by oligopolies as we are, and there is a ton of competition even in housing construction.
In Canada we only really have 2-3 cities to choose from if you want to maximize your job opportunities. Speaking French unlocks 2 more at best, but then you have to deal with all of QCs insane provincial laws.
I live in Montreal. Lived in Van for ten years, spent a lot of time in TO, never wanted to live there.
Quebec is far more sane in mant ways than BC or Ontario.
Loved my decade living in Montreal but that city has its own (different) problems. Rent was cheap but a lot of the housing stock is dilapidated buildings built in the 70s/80s (charming, I guess?). City is really corrupt and mafia has its hooks in everything. French language laws are absurd and anti-business. The province hates immigrants unless they’re white and speak French. Infrastructure is shit. Salaries are lower than Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary despite being the 2nd biggest city in Canada. High taxes. Winters are brutal.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/italy/italy-one-euro-homes-buy-house-b2470838.html
OP, you can buy $1 homes in Italy right now. Different countries, different issues.
They’re trying to lure people to dead towns with populations that are going extinct. Houstonians and Americans are trying to make as much as they can in a capitalist market. Canadians are being robbed
Some people on Reddit are too proud to admit that Canadians are being screwed over
Real estate, food, cell phones plans,
Hard to find good paying jobs
None of the 3 stooges in Ottawa can fix this mess
Not sure if you are talking about me. But, I don’t think making things up is a good answer. Like, OP posts a photo of a house in Houston and says “see, they have cheap housing.” But never considers why that might be.
Saying we are being screwed does not tell us by who or how to fix it. It’s really just an angry rant.
Looks nice- but according to people familiar with the area (I assume you took this from the viral twitter post) this is a horrible location with bad schools and with gangs.
So basically, the same as anywhere, supply and demand.
Also it’s older so I’m not sure what your “materials and labour” price argument applies here since they’re not rebuilding it?
Houstonian here (not sure why this sub has been recommended to me). It’s not a bad place, but it’s really far out from the city center. It may be a Houston address but it’s suburb life. If you’re working in the city from here you may have an hour commute each way. This same home in the city would be $1mm plus. It’s an area where middle class people live to feel rich, because they can stretch their dollar farther, but lacking in any real authenticity. If someone lived here and told me they lived in Houston, despite the Houston address I wouldn’t believe them.
But the question is - how much does it cost to build. I am sure that Texas builder isn't selling at a loss.
The real answer to OP is that merchants/businesses as usual in every industry in Canada feed a bunch of lies (high supply costs) to justify exhorbitant prices.
It’s like loblaws except builders here are doing it with homes. Galen Weston will tell because of inflation things cost more so how is it then if loblaws is paying more and we are as well they’re having record profits? Wouldn’t them paying more as well lead to loblaws making roughly the same amount of profit as they usually do. It’s a fucking joke we’re being robbed.
Being robbed by the big groceries? Can't you shop at Walmart or Food Basics? The ones who are robbing us are politicians by creating enemies and taxing us on everything we produce, buy and earn.
We have an opioid crisis in the small towns of Ontario. It doesn’t justify the price difference. The homes in Ontario are not new custom builds. They also look worse than the home in Houston
I don’t think most Canadian realize how expensive it is to do “things” here. It’s like the entire country just runs and most people have no idea what happens.
Canada is expensive. Some of that is size, and weather, but it’s also our decisions. The things we value. Our healthcare, telecoms, manufacturing, government, it’s endless. It adds up. Every layer. It means it’s expensive. I think so many young people vote and cherish these things and then question the cost of them like it isn’t being paid for.
That means building a house here is also way more expensive than the US.
Canadians have always jumped hoops to justify being gouged. Paying 2x markup for electronics, clothes and books. Oh it’s because it cost money to ship goods here. Overpriced phone plans. Oh it’s because we live in such a large country. Overpriced groceries. Oh it’s because that and that is seasonal. Grossly over priced housing. Oh it’s because of manufacturing costs.
At this point, we are mindless cucks constantly falling for the okie doke. Everything is overpriced because of lack of competition, over consolidation, lower wages than our US counterparts and Canadian passivity.
I agree wholeheartedly. Let me guess the reason we pay the most for data and phone plans on earth is because the telecoms are paying kiosk workers liveable wages while the Americans have illegal aliens staffing those positions. That’s the argument they’re making for housing. It isn’t the fact that things are overpriced no, it’s because the land the cell phone tower sits on is so expensive. Why is it so expensive we have an abundant amount of land.
Realtors in here: Supply and demand man. It’s basic economics lol. These people are fucking nuts
I never realized property taxes were so high in most cities in the US until I saw Home Alone house had property taxes of over $50k! Then I did a deep dive and saw it was all over.
Yes, high property taxes and low to no income taxes on the state level produces a more virtuous cycle of housing development. You cannot just horde housing and sit on it, it has to be used by some kind of end user, and the localities have an incentive to facilitate building as much of it as possible to increase their revenues. Higher property taxes also means the speculative (not cash flow) value is greatly diminished, so it has to be priced according to cashflow/usability value only. The one problem is this promotes land speculation/land hording, a land value tax or a max-use rule fixes that, but in general the American state and local tax system is fairer. You want a mansion in a prime location? You'll have to pay for that privilege.
The difference in value isn’t necessarily building costs and cost of labour. It’s the land value. A residential building lot is Houston is likely a lot cheaper than Markham.
Canada has more lands than the U.S, which also has 20 times Canada's population.
Housing should be more expensive in the U.S because
more people need a place to live
Canada is grossly mismanaged and politicians are screwing us over
Cell phones plans, housing, food are expensive
Hard to find good paying jobs
Labour + materials is around 20% of a condo's final price in Toronto. A similar percentage is development fees and taxes. An even larger chunk is land. The rest is profits and financing.
Yes, and the reason they are so high is because local governments do not want to tax existing property owners. New development is slowed down to benefit existing owners, especially SFH owners who pay much less property taxes compared to the services they get.
And 2 million acres of greenbelt off-limit to developers. Cities in the US embrace suburban sprawl. They grow like trees with expanding rings of development each year.
Something is wrong ? Of course, lots of things are wrong in Canada, including the housing cost! Government is taxing us into poverty, that is wrong. Government ran up the debt so much that now, as I understand, almost all collected HST is used to pay the monthly interest on debt.
Lots of things are wrong.
What actually is the point you make ?
Homes are cheaper in the suburbs of Oslo, Paris, and London as well. Good suburbs, with great schools, and a way shorter and easier commute time to the downtown core.
People who live in Toronto are in deep denial.
Well we do have cold weather. We need to insulate our homes. Furnace that need venting to every room. Gas hook up. Our homes have basement that's a huge cost.
Construction costs have spiralled out of control in Canada. We're not getting good value for our construction dollars. It's beyond belief how many new houses (and complete rebuilds) listed for $2 million+ don't even have masonry facades but rather siding.
By world standards, the best practices for building homes include building the structure of concrete or block masonry like in central Europe, then adding an ornamental facade using a durable and long-lasting material like brick or stone.
That gives you the best fire resistance, rot resistance, and it goes a long way in terms of keeping the house naturally cool in the summer.
Houston housing prices are also going up rapidly. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS26420Q
The main difference is that US had that terrible housing crash 10-15 years ago, while Canada didn't. Yet.
My whole point is there’s no justification for the high prices we face compared to their prices. We have more land and they get paid more there so I imagine the labour costs are less here so what gives. I’m comparing a major metropolis to shitholes in the middle of bumfuck Ontario.
Toronto is more expensive than NYC right now ! And Toronto isn’t a world city are you kidding me !
Toronto is more expensive than Miami and New York , without having New York salaries or Miami weather and beaches.
World city my ass
I moved to the States a couple of years ago, leaving Canada was the best decision of my life , my salary tripled , my taxes and cost of living halved! I was able to save up for a substantial down payment in a year !
And the house I got is a lot nicer than the one I had in Calgary while 35% cheaper!
Just stay away from Texas. Jeez we need a northern wall , ban on TN visas and visa free entry into the US for Canadians. You Canadians ruined your immigration system. Stay in your polar bear winter wonderland
Nobody seems to have mentioned this yet - no doubt there is a pure supply and demand factor to this. Way more people want to live in GTA than in Houston suburbs.
Also house insurance in Houston and your property tax is twice as much as any of the locations you listed because Texas has no income tax and most of Houston is a flood plain. Not comparing apples to oranges. Move to Houston then.
I finance residential construction projects in the GTA… most projects fall between 10-15% profit over cost. Yes, it is extremely expensive to build here.
Check the current Development Charges for the city of Brampton - a single family home is ~160k - that doesn't include permit costs, roads, sewers, waterlines on the subject property or installing the powerlines.
Then you need to pay to build the house and buy the land itself - large builders (a few hundred+ homes a year) are building a single family home ~200/ft hard costs (labour material onsite - not including general labour, site costs, Foreman, office, etc...)
Then the government takes their cut (which just went up) and nobody is building for free so the builder makes their margin.
At the end of it new homes have a fairly high cost so resale goes up as well
Its the absolute peak for Canada, we are about to drive this MFer off a cliff. The capital exodus has been downplayed in the media. Because Canada's entire economy is a house of cards built by greed, stupidity and FOMO, and a corrupt elite class permeating every facet of our government.
We are buying our own mortgage bonds. This is the end game.
The Western world, particularly the economic output, will consolidate in the US. Canada will continue to degrade until there is serious social and economic strife. It's closer than y'all think.
In addition to what the other comments said, take a look at the property taxes: USD10,404 per year. Imagine paying $13,500 for your property taxes here.
Home insurance also estimated at roughly USD450/mth.
The cherry on top is this home is also part of an HOA, fuck that nonsense. Monthly fee is reasonable at $46/mth but the headache of being in an HOA is not.
US also has higher interest rates than Canada.
You don't need to go that far south to find cheaper homes. Check Chicago. Basement, no flood plain, expensive land, high tax, high labor rates. For 1.5 you'll have a 3500+ sqft home with more than 3 baths, detached, in a very nice neighbourhood and a sub 30 minute commute downtown. Willing to have a longer commute just start going up the north shore from downtown.
Houses there are remarkable imo. In ground pool with stone spa/hottub (not the plastic kind). Lack of basement is nice-games room upstairs usually, plus theatre room in many places. Stone and brickwork everywhere. Wood cabinets (not mdf). Concrete driveways and three car garage (usually tandem) is standard. Wider properties as well. Palm trees in yard. Nice.
There are lots of stupid excuses from realtors and all the other liars in the FIRE industry. Wake up, you are being lied to and conned into thinking it is normal to pay over a million for a cookie cutter house in Canada. 3000sq is $350k in Houston (20 mins away from city core). The RE industry has been exposed. If a realtor tells you otherwise, just tell them they are high-school drop-out idiots with no skill or education.
Why is this house $1M?, it’s because of costs and Torontos a world class city. The truth is everyone is just overpaying. It’s why someone was able to come across a post of the Indians in Toronto where one person wanted to confront his neighbour for putting his house on sale for less than the poster bought theirs for. It’s absolute insanity
It actually sucks for the USA home buyers..
They have crazy high property taxes (5-8% of house value per year) and insane insurance costs.
So the house is "cheaper" to buy, expensive as heck for carry costs. Most of which never get recouped (otherwise USA houses would be much more expensive). They have a crazy system down there.
Here we got the townhouse for $450k 10yra ago. Value now +/-$950k , prop tax about $1100+/- and insurance $2500/yr
I bet if you keep track of the time it takes to re-roof your home, count the number of workers, subtract the cost of materials, you probably get that number. The cost of doing a roof on a house these days is nuts.
OP doesn't understand what area value is. OP is going to lose his head when he finds out the avg price of a town home in New York city is CA$1,259,166 or detached house in LA is CA$1,570,543. You can buy a huge plot of land up north for 30k that same plot of land is 1,000,000 in the GTA because of demand.
Edit: also great time looking at all the comments explaining why the house in Texas is cheaper and OP is either replying with "NO I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG" or ignoring them.
The "it costs X to build" argument was always bogus. And obviously so to anyone with a brain. Yes, building costs set a price floor. But that price floor is magnitudes below where prices are currently. So it isn't relevant. Texas is a bad example - different countries, building red tape, market prices for materials, etc. But look at the prices in Windsor. Or Brockville. Or any small to mid size Ontario city. Much more similar comparators. Same province etc. But way cheaper housing. You think they are building and selling those homes at a loss? Differing municipalities can greatly impact costs with permitting etc., so even these comparators are imperfect, but I can assure you it does not justify these price differences.
Between the for profit prisons “leasing” out their inmates (read: slaves) and undocumented migrant labour without health insurance or employment protections I’m certain we should not be looking to the US for guidance on how to reduce the cost of housing.
No-one has ever said the price of a house predominantly reflects the cost of building it. The cost of a home reflects the market. You're making up a straw man.
Nah it’s cause the Canadian dollar is worthless compared to the American dollar. Not only that but we have government policies in place that keep prices artificially high. The solution is one snap of the finger away but the powers to be can’t piss off current homeowners because it’d b game over for the real estate market and the economy as a whole. The house of cards can’t keep growing taller forever.
Based on OP's photos, on a PPP basis that would suggest the Canadian dollar isn't worthless, but rather massively overvalued right now; Other stats like worker productivity, etc say the same thing.
And now compare property taxes in those areas. Ontario has very low property tax so rather than collect it annually from homeowners a large chunk is collected from developers
If you built the smaller house in Houston it would would be significantly cheaper than in Markham
They are probably right about the house construction price but the land is what makes up the bulk of the cost
Cost of Living. Supply and Demand.
The difference in price is similar to the reason that the cost of groceries varies between different neighbourhoods. People will push prices to the limit of what they think others are willing to pay.
Prices in Toronto are incredibly unaffordable, yet, these homes continue to sell, because there are buyers willing to pay.
Lol…. Sure some costs have gone up but at the peak of reno mania (2021/22) contractors charged obscene amounts… for example, buddy got quoted 80k for a 700sqft deck
I built one by myself, part time (was working full days), for about 8k
Yes materials shot up for a bit, but costing is stupid.
I do hear that building and permits etc is a huge chunk of price right now.
Don’t disagree with your general thesis that Canadian houses are overpriced but this house could:
A) need extensive interior renovation, which in Canadian prices at $100-150/sf almost doubles this price
B) be in a bad location. Look at Hamilton a few years ago, people were snapping up big houses in areas people didn’t want to live for cheap.
Canadian realtor here. Been reading the comments...
Of course there's a million factors, the main one people seem to forget is simple offer and demand. No, our Canadian homes aren't ''worth'' that they are going for...but that is the current market value. And, that Houston home wouldn't sell if it were listed at 800k.
Having said that, at pure face value, I'd take a basement-less house costing 25%-50% of the same one with a basement in Canada, thank you very much lol.
Honestly I've always felt that most US cities offer SO much more house than here in Canada (sure, take out Manhattan, LA and SF). I was in Florida last summer and could not get over how much house 500k could get you, in comparison to here. We might not have an immigrant worker issue, BUT we do have unions controlling construction wages sky high, government controlling prices on so many things...and let me tell you our homes aren't better built because of it.
First of all, Texas is not dense, Toronto is.
Second of all, it's the land thats become expensive in canada.
Thirdly, there is much more foreign investment in gta, than Texas. Canada had been 3rd in foreign investment in thebworld. Our real estate accounts for majority of our gdp.
The rise in pricing is demand related. Not value based. I agree. Canadian prices don't make sense locally. But I know why it is. You have to look at it from a global pov.
Nothing in canada makes sense. The country isn't competitive in the world economy. 70% is service based. Our largest trade partner is the US, accounting for 85% of all import / export.
Canada has the most expense supply chain in the G7, perhaps even the world.
2.
Taxes are 50 percent more in Canada than the USA. Tax free day in Canada is the end of June in Canada, but the start of April in the USA. Tax free day being the date at which you have now finished paying all your taxes and the rest of your salary is yours to keep.
3. Residential Labour in subdivision construction in Canada is all unionized. LiUNA 183 controls virtually all subdivision construction sitw and total remuneration for a LiUNA laborer is in the 65.00 to 75.00 per hour range. That's cost. Not charge out rates. In Texas, they are all non unionized with a large percentage being illegals working for 8 bucks an hour, maybe.
4. In Ontario, fully 31 percent of the price of a new home is TAX. I doubt in Texas it's anything save and except a grand or two for a permit. Doug Ford tried to lower development fees in Ontario and was roundly criticized as being in bed with developers.
5. Texas does not have a state income tax. In Ontario, we have a massive provincial income tax.
6. Texas doesn't have a GST (5 percent) in and their state sales tax is 6 percent vs. 8 percent on Ontario.
7. A 72 cent dollar (and dropping). You seem to have overlooked that. It is now being said that the Canadian dollar will probably drop to 50 cents. Get your head around the impacts of that.
8. Canada is the least productive nation of any G7 nation. And falling. This is a massive problem as it means everything costs more and GDP per capita is falling. American workers are far more productive than Canadian workers.
9. Legislation by the former liberal government of Ontario has hugely impacted the residential construction industry of Ontario and driven development costs through the roof and are now the highest in North America. You think they have green belt legislation in Texas?
10. Edit, It occurred to me that your example is in Texas. Typically American homes in hot climates don't have basements. They are just built on posts and beams and then skirted to look presentable. (It's a bullshit design.) In Canada, virtually every house is built on a basement foundation due to needing to found the building below the frost level. But basements are very expesive to construct. It's really cheap to build souther US style with no basement. If I had to estimate, the cost to build a basement adds 30 percent to the cost to construct. Not chump change. (And even if I was to live in the southern US, I'd want a basement.)
I could go on and on and on.
To build a house in the GTA, your cost to construct as a homeowner is 450 to 500 per square foot if you're lucky. That doesn't include the cost of the land, taxes, permits, engineering, driveway, landscaping, utility hook-up fees. That's just the cost to build the box, middle of the road finishes and to code.
Who the fuck is suggesting labour and materials are the reason prices are fucked?
By far the land is the most expensive part, especially in the expensive areas like Vancouver and Toronto.
Just the land to build that house would cost more than that in Toronto, likely at least double if not triple.
Taxes and fees here would add on another quarter million or so and you haven't even put a shovel in the ground.
It’s pure supply and demand. Cost of materials and labour going up can influence a seller to charge more but a buyer still has to accept the price. The simple reality is people in Canada and the world will pay obscene prices to live in the GTA (or commuting distance to Toronto) whereas people do not have nearly the same demand of Houston. This is probably because the US has so many in demand cities to live in whereas we have a handful at most. I personally would never pay those prices for Paris ON but someone is willing to or the price will drop.
Also factor in fx as well
This is 741,064 CAD. Also property taxes are usually much higher in the USA. Its not too far off from what is available here. Also their mortgage terms are much longer, alot of people have locked in a 1-2% rate for 30 years.
There is no basement just slab on grade. Land is cheap. They don't interfere with development. They get cheap Canadian lumber. They have no minimum wage and their immigrants have construction skills. There are more reasons but here is the start.
Doesn’t Texas also allow building on flood plains?
Houston is literally build on a giant swamp lol. Source: I'm.down there once a month, there's literally a bayou running through it.
By that logic, Toronto is essentially built on a boreal forest that freezes 6 months of the year. I think many would prefer the swamp!
Toronto's foundations are much more expensive
They're not as bad as you think. I built a custom 2600 sq ft home in Ontario 5 years ago. Foundation was sound 60k. Had the old home demolished and the excavation for new done by the same guy, he was 10k-15k. The price would've been lower on concrete, but my cheap hole guy screwed up so I had to do the full 9ft walls instead of 5ft plus a framed wall on top. I mean, it's not exactly cheap, and it's more expensive post covid for sure. But, that was a single foundation poured by a company that normally does subdivisions where they give better rates since the equipment doesn't have to travel. Another thing, there's actually zero reason why we need to do foundations this way in the first place. It's just what we do because it's how things were always done in the past. The most economical foundation is a post and beam, followed by an engineered slab on grade. Both of those weren't as viable in the past due to limitations with insulation, but there's zero reason not to use them now. You can insulate the slab and heat the entire home using a boiler hooked up to in floor heating. With post and beam, you frame in an insulated void underneath the structure which is conditioned by the forced air hvac system. The reason things are expensive in Canada is because of government intervention into the process, and a lack of will to improve the trades shortage. It's not because of foundations.
What 80-120k for a foundation?
No you wouldn't. Inlaws have a place in Florida, built near a swamp...the mold, the constant mold issues are relentless
The foundations we build all extend well beyond the 1.5m of frost to deal with this, and as a result our construction is more expensive.
Yes. Less red tape, way higher insurance costs. No regulations = worse houses = sky-high insurance and maintenance costs.
I’m not sure about Houston but I know in Austin property taxes are insane, like $1000+/month.
On the flip side they have no State Income tax..
Wtf you talking about no regulations - they have codes and standards just like we do up here…..actually they have more.
"FEMA gave Texas a score of 10 percent because the state follows outdated codes published in 2012 and gives municipalities “broad discretion to modify” the codes. Texas didn’t receive a score of 0 because major cities such San Antonio have modified the state codes to be highly stringent." [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/) [https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/)
It's Canadian leftists talking. They think the USA is a 3rd world country cause they're highly regarded members of society.
Hes right. Have you been/seen insulation in Texas?
What insulation LOL
I’ve lived in both Canada and the USA. It’s shameful the way Canadians talk about Americans. I was surprised when I was down there as most Americans had only positive things to say about Canadians. Made me feel bad.
Canadians have an huge inferiority complex. I've lived and been to school in both too. Canadians have no identity except to claim to be better than Americans. Americans really have little to say on Canadians except when they do, its reasonable and kind. Canadians pride themselves on being polite, but are actually mostly passive aggressive. Go to any international airport, and you will inevitably find the coarsest, foul mouthed, group of youth are usually Canadian.
You need to talk to more Canadians I guess. We're no harder on Americans than most Americans are on themselves.
My brother in Christ I live in Vegas. Born in Calgary. To my Vegas friends that ask me about Canada they have nothin but nice things to say. When I’m home I’m blasted by fucking stupid healthcare “facts” and asked why I would live there lol it’s so annoying to see the exact same type of people hate one another due to our little border line. Most Canadians I know would enjoy America and it really just seems like the news has everyone twisted lol
Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's an age thing, but the Canadians I know are well aware that our healthcare has plenty of issues like wait times for MRIs that you can get past by going to the states. Most still think its way better here but it's hardly all rosey. Meanwhile you don't have to look far to find left leaning American media that makes it sound like America is a hellscape.
100%. Born and raised in the US. Have been living in Canada for over 6 years now. Overwhelming Majority of Canadians I talk to talk down on the US. Have never experienced US folks talking down on Canadians. I think it’s because of a few factors: 1. So many Canadians do this so it’s a sort of “norm” 2. Way more Canadians watch US television/media/news than the other way around. 3. I also feel like Canada waves the free healthcare flag when bashing the US. However, most middle class folks have free healthcare in the US, and make much more money that the Canadian counterparts.
Americans have done it to themselves. Their society is all about me, me, me. They don't give a fuck about any but themselves. They've fucked Canada for years by strong arming us. NAFTA has ensured the US gets to fuck Canada as much as they want. I work with Americans and they have positive things to say about Canada because we give a fuck about other people. We learn American history and geography in school and try to be a positive influence in the world. You couldn't pay me to feel bad for Americans. They created all this negative sentiment towards them around the world. Their own doing. For reference, they have much more lax codes in Texas than Canada and depending on where you live, your home insurance is through to roof or you can't get any insurance at all because you're guaranteed to be hit with flooding. When did we forget all the bullshit that the US has put Canada through? It's disgusting to try to stand up for America. Go look at the economic impact they've had on Canada. They haven't done us any favors, they abuse us because we're between a rock and a hard place with constant vague threats. Or you know, actual tariffs that had huge impact on us. [https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/](https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/)
I lived in the US too. I guess it depends on where you lived. I have a high opinion of people in Michigan but holy shit I couldn't stand all the outward racism I saw in the Carolinas....and just how completely out of touch they were with most things. They might as well been two different countries
No regulations? LOL. These houses are built better than the cookie cutter houses you see in the GTA suburbia.
I've stayed at several McMansions in the southern US, (mostly in Florida) for big family vacations with my in-laws. I'm always blown away by the shoddy finishing work and low quality materials, cabinetry and finishes used inside and outside of them.
"FEMA gave Texas a score of 10 percent because the state follows outdated codes published in 2012 and gives municipalities “broad discretion to modify” the codes. Texas didn’t receive a score of 0 because major cities such San Antonio have modified the state codes to be highly stringent." [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-states-are-failing-on-building-codes-fema-says/) [https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/the-americans-without-running-water/471909/) GTA homes are indeed built like shit, but the ones in Texas aren't great either because there is even less regulation
The ones in Texas are graded against a higher scale. FEMA’s ratings are intended for disaster resilience. Can’t just look at the numbers without context. For sure, Texas is a code/zoning free for all, overall. But it’s also a highly litigious state with a lot of guns, lol…
Every time I drive pass Whitby off the 407 and see all those cookie cutter homes I cringe. They build up and look matchboxes
“They get cheap Canadian lumber” Why do we get the expensive lumber?
And seafood. Newfoundland catches only allowed to be sold in Newfoundland and outside Canada. Don’t even get me started on dairy.
>Newfoundland catches only allowed to be sold in Newfoundland and outside Canada. wait... WHAT?! I need source on this. And what about seafood from rest of the maritime? And for the love of all that is holy, why!?
Coz Canadians are dumb and they pay whatever they're asked to pay..
THIS sounds like the reason for high housing prices in Canada.
We ship the best stuff, so we can by it back for twice as much as IKEA furniture.
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We send our trees in the states to buy them back in 2x6 2x4 plywood etc. We get fucked hard. Same with our minerals. Send our ore to china to then buy it back
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We have more free trade with the states than amoung the provinces. Also we export most of our lumber to the states directly and then provincially each one imports from the states. Sort like everything in this country Things that should be cheap here oil,wood,wheat we have to pay world prices for and things cheap else where like milk, cheese ,internet we have to pay local prices for. Those cartels know what they are doing.
Dont forget zero insulation
Yeah, its kind of dumb to compare with Texas, the state with the most affordable McMansions.
That is the answer. Coworker lives there. Can confirm Mexican labor is cheap , no basements means less cost and labor, exchange rate benefits them by 30%,
The problem in Canada is that our currency is highly devalued currently at 27% on the banking market but effectively 35-40% for companies and individuals. We buy more from the US economy and From ours to build homes. Just today a can of paint cost me $67 + 15% tax. That same can costs $48 in Texas +6.25%. Americans also get taxes less 36% vs our 43% (average). However our tax rates hit us at a much lower threshold. So we get dinged harder for making less money. If our trusted government can pay off debt, stop sending money abroad, balance budgets instead of buying votes then our currency will improve and housing, food and other items will cost less.
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Like you said, your comment is a start but on of the biggest factors is they have absolutely no issue with sprawl, give less than no shits about land rights, environmental concerns, in 90% of the state. They just build as much as fast as possible and they haven't stopped in decades. Add that to what you say and you can actually build more than needed even with the constant population boom Texas has.
Material aside, it comes down to Houston isn’t a tier 1 city in the US. Americans have a lot more mobility than us. If you pair tier 1 city to tier 1 city, Toronto is still cheaper than your New York and SF of the world. Globally Toronto isn’t on that level, but it is Canada’s version of New York sadly.
Im from Toronto and moved to NYC, like many I used to also compare Toronto to NYC, I can tell you without a doubt Toronto is not even close to NYC. NYC is 10x the size of toronto and a different beast. Toronto is similar to Chicago.
I mean it’s just continual city and suburb from Boston down to Washington - there’s barely a vanity strip between towns in many cases.
Houston isn’t a tier 1 city in the US, WTF IS FLAMBOROUGH sand PARIS and MARKHAM these are tier 10 cities/towns in that case and their houses cost more than Houstons
Ok Markham is definitely a high tier city how dare you. I love being stuck in traffic by terrible drivers going 10 under the limit
Unfortunately, Flamborough, Paris and Markham can all tie their real estate values to proximity…. To Toronto. I bet you there’s quite a few “commuters”
Toronto is not NYC’s peer. Chicago would be a more apt comparison (I have no idea what prices are like there).
Much cheaper than Toronto and much higher salaries.
Metro Houston is bigger than the GTA and has a much higher GDP.
Some of these people don't understand how the economy works. Somehow define a tier 1 city by some random metrics not the ones that actually matter.
They also don't have income taxes, but a lot of that burden is apparently shifted onto property taxes.
*state* income taxes
No furnace either. Probably extra/larger A/C. Also what are the taxes?
And it's Texas.
And - they don't have to build 4 season homes.
Don’t forget hundreds of thousands of dollars in gov development charges.
Good summary. I'd only add the possible influence of tax rates, regulations, and tariffs as well.
Houston has a lot of Mexican workers in the trades. A trades person in Toronto makes six figures.
Minimum wage is definitely lower down there, and yes you can pay undocumented workers less. Actually a lot of construction workers are either Guatemalan, and El Salvadorans. Quite a bit of the Mexican population have pretty decent high paying white collar jobs.
The other thing to look into is the basement, and if there is one. Down south where the ground doesn’t freeze, they can pour a slab and build without a basement which saves on the requirements for a floor of work.
No basement due to prone to flooding and ground water problem since houston is at sea level build on a giant swamp/ estuary at the mouth of gulf of Mexico. Hurricanes doesn't help either.
I'd advise anyone to look into Texas property taxes. All that glitters isn't gold. However, Texas receives a large stream of men who actually know how to build homes quite well, via illegal immigration. Yes, illegal immigrants work in construction, and sometimes, build their own businesses. Canada gets University of Uber Eats students who build nothing but gridlock with their bikes when trying to exit or enter the GO train.
Facts. Amazing how Canada doesn't realize this. Enough of the "business" students. If you really want to get more immigrants at least get the builders, the doctors and the nurses.
in other words mexicans, guatamalans, and filipinos. Hardest workers in the room.
I used to roof and the Mexicans were the hardest workers there! That being said I have a Guatemalan friend who’s the biggest slug I’ve ever met. Depends how you’re raised I guess
My roommate in university came from Leamington and worked agricultural jobs in the summer. He was one of the more productive Canadian workers but he said the Mexican TFWs used to work “crazy fast” and would probably pick 30% more than him on a good day. They’re super hard workers.
It's not that Canada doesn't want those illegal 'construction' immigrants, but it is that they DONT want to come here lol. 6 months of freezing + its not easy to just walk into Canadian border from that far...& overall canadian life/economy isn't attractive to them as well...
This is a solid take lol
The US actually has productive industry so they don't need to trade houses back and forth to make money. Jokes aside it isn't all rosy - the US has more than its fair share of sky-high RE markets i.e. the Bay area, Seattle, NYC, Boston, pretty much any city in socal. Even Austin is getting up there. Also the US isn't run entirely by oligopolies as we are, and there is a ton of competition even in housing construction. In Canada we only really have 2-3 cities to choose from if you want to maximize your job opportunities. Speaking French unlocks 2 more at best, but then you have to deal with all of QCs insane provincial laws.
I live in Montreal. Lived in Van for ten years, spent a lot of time in TO, never wanted to live there. Quebec is far more sane in mant ways than BC or Ontario.
Loved my decade living in Montreal but that city has its own (different) problems. Rent was cheap but a lot of the housing stock is dilapidated buildings built in the 70s/80s (charming, I guess?). City is really corrupt and mafia has its hooks in everything. French language laws are absurd and anti-business. The province hates immigrants unless they’re white and speak French. Infrastructure is shit. Salaries are lower than Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary despite being the 2nd biggest city in Canada. High taxes. Winters are brutal.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/italy/italy-one-euro-homes-buy-house-b2470838.html OP, you can buy $1 homes in Italy right now. Different countries, different issues.
They’re trying to lure people to dead towns with populations that are going extinct. Houstonians and Americans are trying to make as much as they can in a capitalist market. Canadians are being robbed
Some people on Reddit are too proud to admit that Canadians are being screwed over Real estate, food, cell phones plans, Hard to find good paying jobs None of the 3 stooges in Ottawa can fix this mess
Not sure if you are talking about me. But, I don’t think making things up is a good answer. Like, OP posts a photo of a house in Houston and says “see, they have cheap housing.” But never considers why that might be. Saying we are being screwed does not tell us by who or how to fix it. It’s really just an angry rant.
Looks nice- but according to people familiar with the area (I assume you took this from the viral twitter post) this is a horrible location with bad schools and with gangs. So basically, the same as anywhere, supply and demand. Also it’s older so I’m not sure what your “materials and labour” price argument applies here since they’re not rebuilding it?
Houstonian here (not sure why this sub has been recommended to me). It’s not a bad place, but it’s really far out from the city center. It may be a Houston address but it’s suburb life. If you’re working in the city from here you may have an hour commute each way. This same home in the city would be $1mm plus. It’s an area where middle class people live to feel rich, because they can stretch their dollar farther, but lacking in any real authenticity. If someone lived here and told me they lived in Houston, despite the Houston address I wouldn’t believe them.
Look at that place in Houston on Google maps. Doesn’t look like an area with bad schools or gangs to me.
Yea if that’s a bad neighborhood I wonder what the good ones look like
But the question is - how much does it cost to build. I am sure that Texas builder isn't selling at a loss. The real answer to OP is that merchants/businesses as usual in every industry in Canada feed a bunch of lies (high supply costs) to justify exhorbitant prices.
It’s like loblaws except builders here are doing it with homes. Galen Weston will tell because of inflation things cost more so how is it then if loblaws is paying more and we are as well they’re having record profits? Wouldn’t them paying more as well lead to loblaws making roughly the same amount of profit as they usually do. It’s a fucking joke we’re being robbed.
Being robbed by the big groceries? Can't you shop at Walmart or Food Basics? The ones who are robbing us are politicians by creating enemies and taxing us on everything we produce, buy and earn.
We have an opioid crisis in the small towns of Ontario. It doesn’t justify the price difference. The homes in Ontario are not new custom builds. They also look worse than the home in Houston
I don’t think most Canadian realize how expensive it is to do “things” here. It’s like the entire country just runs and most people have no idea what happens. Canada is expensive. Some of that is size, and weather, but it’s also our decisions. The things we value. Our healthcare, telecoms, manufacturing, government, it’s endless. It adds up. Every layer. It means it’s expensive. I think so many young people vote and cherish these things and then question the cost of them like it isn’t being paid for. That means building a house here is also way more expensive than the US.
Canadians have always jumped hoops to justify being gouged. Paying 2x markup for electronics, clothes and books. Oh it’s because it cost money to ship goods here. Overpriced phone plans. Oh it’s because we live in such a large country. Overpriced groceries. Oh it’s because that and that is seasonal. Grossly over priced housing. Oh it’s because of manufacturing costs. At this point, we are mindless cucks constantly falling for the okie doke. Everything is overpriced because of lack of competition, over consolidation, lower wages than our US counterparts and Canadian passivity.
This pretty much summarizes the massive cope in this thread. Truly a cucked population.
I agree wholeheartedly. Let me guess the reason we pay the most for data and phone plans on earth is because the telecoms are paying kiosk workers liveable wages while the Americans have illegal aliens staffing those positions. That’s the argument they’re making for housing. It isn’t the fact that things are overpriced no, it’s because the land the cell phone tower sits on is so expensive. Why is it so expensive we have an abundant amount of land. Realtors in here: Supply and demand man. It’s basic economics lol. These people are fucking nuts
What could be the solution everything is stacked against us but don't think it is sweet south of here Ethier .
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I never realized property taxes were so high in most cities in the US until I saw Home Alone house had property taxes of over $50k! Then I did a deep dive and saw it was all over.
Yes, high property taxes and low to no income taxes on the state level produces a more virtuous cycle of housing development. You cannot just horde housing and sit on it, it has to be used by some kind of end user, and the localities have an incentive to facilitate building as much of it as possible to increase their revenues. Higher property taxes also means the speculative (not cash flow) value is greatly diminished, so it has to be priced according to cashflow/usability value only. The one problem is this promotes land speculation/land hording, a land value tax or a max-use rule fixes that, but in general the American state and local tax system is fairer. You want a mansion in a prime location? You'll have to pay for that privilege.
Should be the highest comment. OP needs to do some more research
Look at income taxes and wages
This one says its 3k per year, plus HOA fees 500$ per year. Cheaper than in Canada
Yeah, but look at their income tax. It’s actually a better system - people who don’t own bring home more money so they can save for down payment.
Renters will end up paying property taxes through their rent.
Look at the income and the taxes in Texas as well. smh
The difference in value isn’t necessarily building costs and cost of labour. It’s the land value. A residential building lot is Houston is likely a lot cheaper than Markham.
Canada has more lands than the U.S, which also has 20 times Canada's population. Housing should be more expensive in the U.S because more people need a place to live Canada is grossly mismanaged and politicians are screwing us over Cell phones plans, housing, food are expensive Hard to find good paying jobs
Labour + materials is around 20% of a condo's final price in Toronto. A similar percentage is development fees and taxes. An even larger chunk is land. The rest is profits and financing.
Developer fees in Ontario and BC are a huge factor. It’s one reason why houses/condos are so much cheaper in Montreal than Van or TO.
It accounts for 30% of the sale price at the moment. They are raising development charges.
Yes, and the reason they are so high is because local governments do not want to tax existing property owners. New development is slowed down to benefit existing owners, especially SFH owners who pay much less property taxes compared to the services they get.
It's because the land is more expansive I guess. Not sure why the land is so expansive.
Because of zoning by-laws and NIMBY interference.
And 2 million acres of greenbelt off-limit to developers. Cities in the US embrace suburban sprawl. They grow like trees with expanding rings of development each year.
Something is wrong ? Of course, lots of things are wrong in Canada, including the housing cost! Government is taxing us into poverty, that is wrong. Government ran up the debt so much that now, as I understand, almost all collected HST is used to pay the monthly interest on debt. Lots of things are wrong. What actually is the point you make ?
Homes are cheaper in the suburbs of Oslo, Paris, and London as well. Good suburbs, with great schools, and a way shorter and easier commute time to the downtown core. People who live in Toronto are in deep denial.
I agree with you on this. There is absolutely no justification for the prices were being told to pay
Well we do have cold weather. We need to insulate our homes. Furnace that need venting to every room. Gas hook up. Our homes have basement that's a huge cost.
Development charges here is like 150k for a detached
We don't have as many Mexicans to exploit. Still bullshit though
Welcome to overrated, overvalued, overpriced Canada
Make an offer OP
Construction costs have spiralled out of control in Canada. We're not getting good value for our construction dollars. It's beyond belief how many new houses (and complete rebuilds) listed for $2 million+ don't even have masonry facades but rather siding. By world standards, the best practices for building homes include building the structure of concrete or block masonry like in central Europe, then adding an ornamental facade using a durable and long-lasting material like brick or stone. That gives you the best fire resistance, rot resistance, and it goes a long way in terms of keeping the house naturally cool in the summer.
Houston housing prices are also going up rapidly. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS26420Q The main difference is that US had that terrible housing crash 10-15 years ago, while Canada didn't. Yet.
My whole point is there’s no justification for the high prices we face compared to their prices. We have more land and they get paid more there so I imagine the labour costs are less here so what gives. I’m comparing a major metropolis to shitholes in the middle of bumfuck Ontario.
Toronto is more expensive than NYC right now ! And Toronto isn’t a world city are you kidding me ! Toronto is more expensive than Miami and New York , without having New York salaries or Miami weather and beaches. World city my ass I moved to the States a couple of years ago, leaving Canada was the best decision of my life , my salary tripled , my taxes and cost of living halved! I was able to save up for a substantial down payment in a year ! And the house I got is a lot nicer than the one I had in Calgary while 35% cheaper!
Just stay away from Texas. Jeez we need a northern wall , ban on TN visas and visa free entry into the US for Canadians. You Canadians ruined your immigration system. Stay in your polar bear winter wonderland
Nobody seems to have mentioned this yet - no doubt there is a pure supply and demand factor to this. Way more people want to live in GTA than in Houston suburbs.
Also house insurance in Houston and your property tax is twice as much as any of the locations you listed because Texas has no income tax and most of Houston is a flood plain. Not comparing apples to oranges. Move to Houston then.
I finance residential construction projects in the GTA… most projects fall between 10-15% profit over cost. Yes, it is extremely expensive to build here.
To be fair, they have actual dollars and we are using Canadian pesos.
I’ve converted it into Canadian pesos we still pay 400k more less
Check the current Development Charges for the city of Brampton - a single family home is ~160k - that doesn't include permit costs, roads, sewers, waterlines on the subject property or installing the powerlines. Then you need to pay to build the house and buy the land itself - large builders (a few hundred+ homes a year) are building a single family home ~200/ft hard costs (labour material onsite - not including general labour, site costs, Foreman, office, etc...) Then the government takes their cut (which just went up) and nobody is building for free so the builder makes their margin. At the end of it new homes have a fairly high cost so resale goes up as well
That’s cause Canada sucks
Its the absolute peak for Canada, we are about to drive this MFer off a cliff. The capital exodus has been downplayed in the media. Because Canada's entire economy is a house of cards built by greed, stupidity and FOMO, and a corrupt elite class permeating every facet of our government. We are buying our own mortgage bonds. This is the end game.
The Western world, particularly the economic output, will consolidate in the US. Canada will continue to degrade until there is serious social and economic strife. It's closer than y'all think.
In addition to what the other comments said, take a look at the property taxes: USD10,404 per year. Imagine paying $13,500 for your property taxes here. Home insurance also estimated at roughly USD450/mth. The cherry on top is this home is also part of an HOA, fuck that nonsense. Monthly fee is reasonable at $46/mth but the headache of being in an HOA is not. US also has higher interest rates than Canada.
Let’s pretend 90% of construction workers in the US are undocumented making almost no money to build those homes…
You don't need to go that far south to find cheaper homes. Check Chicago. Basement, no flood plain, expensive land, high tax, high labor rates. For 1.5 you'll have a 3500+ sqft home with more than 3 baths, detached, in a very nice neighbourhood and a sub 30 minute commute downtown. Willing to have a longer commute just start going up the north shore from downtown.
Mexican labour
Houses there are remarkable imo. In ground pool with stone spa/hottub (not the plastic kind). Lack of basement is nice-games room upstairs usually, plus theatre room in many places. Stone and brickwork everywhere. Wood cabinets (not mdf). Concrete driveways and three car garage (usually tandem) is standard. Wider properties as well. Palm trees in yard. Nice.
GTA real estate is a shit show with lots of crooks doing money laundry
There are lots of stupid excuses from realtors and all the other liars in the FIRE industry. Wake up, you are being lied to and conned into thinking it is normal to pay over a million for a cookie cutter house in Canada. 3000sq is $350k in Houston (20 mins away from city core). The RE industry has been exposed. If a realtor tells you otherwise, just tell them they are high-school drop-out idiots with no skill or education.
Why is this house $1M?, it’s because of costs and Torontos a world class city. The truth is everyone is just overpaying. It’s why someone was able to come across a post of the Indians in Toronto where one person wanted to confront his neighbour for putting his house on sale for less than the poster bought theirs for. It’s absolute insanity
It actually sucks for the USA home buyers.. They have crazy high property taxes (5-8% of house value per year) and insane insurance costs. So the house is "cheaper" to buy, expensive as heck for carry costs. Most of which never get recouped (otherwise USA houses would be much more expensive). They have a crazy system down there. Here we got the townhouse for $450k 10yra ago. Value now +/-$950k , prop tax about $1100+/- and insurance $2500/yr
Because a roofer is paid $14/hr in the US vs $200/hr in Ontario.
Roofers are paid 200/hr in Ontario? Doctors don’t make 200/hr I’m calling bullshit
Not 200 maybe but they're not cheap. In Texas it's pretty much felons and undocumented migrants doing it, and they get paid peanuts.
Show me statistics and sources that say so.
I bet if you keep track of the time it takes to re-roof your home, count the number of workers, subtract the cost of materials, you probably get that number. The cost of doing a roof on a house these days is nuts.
Commerical roofers charge $2000 min for 4hr repair jobs. That's why the call them roof doctors.
OP doesn't understand what area value is. OP is going to lose his head when he finds out the avg price of a town home in New York city is CA$1,259,166 or detached house in LA is CA$1,570,543. You can buy a huge plot of land up north for 30k that same plot of land is 1,000,000 in the GTA because of demand. Edit: also great time looking at all the comments explaining why the house in Texas is cheaper and OP is either replying with "NO I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG" or ignoring them.
The "it costs X to build" argument was always bogus. And obviously so to anyone with a brain. Yes, building costs set a price floor. But that price floor is magnitudes below where prices are currently. So it isn't relevant. Texas is a bad example - different countries, building red tape, market prices for materials, etc. But look at the prices in Windsor. Or Brockville. Or any small to mid size Ontario city. Much more similar comparators. Same province etc. But way cheaper housing. You think they are building and selling those homes at a loss? Differing municipalities can greatly impact costs with permitting etc., so even these comparators are imperfect, but I can assure you it does not justify these price differences.
WTAF???
Between the for profit prisons “leasing” out their inmates (read: slaves) and undocumented migrant labour without health insurance or employment protections I’m certain we should not be looking to the US for guidance on how to reduce the cost of housing.
Mexicans….
Markham and stouffville are tow different municipalities by the way
Texas literally has the worst quality of life score in the entire USA …that’s not by fluke or by chance either
TIL there’s a Paris in Ontario.
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I’d rather live there than bumfucking Paris Ontario or Flamborough Ontario.
Half of my friends from university moved to Texas or California. They all own homes and live a very comfortable life
You just woke up to development charges. It’s literally the government stealing from you.
Obviously OP doesn’t have a construction background. Your comparing building in Texas vs Ontario lol
No-one has ever said the price of a house predominantly reflects the cost of building it. The cost of a home reflects the market. You're making up a straw man.
You don't make money on housing in Texas.
Four Mexican home builders earn what one does in Canada. Even more amplified in the GTA.
Source? I’ve friends that are residential framers and roofers, most of them don’t even crack $35/hour
Nah it’s cause the Canadian dollar is worthless compared to the American dollar. Not only that but we have government policies in place that keep prices artificially high. The solution is one snap of the finger away but the powers to be can’t piss off current homeowners because it’d b game over for the real estate market and the economy as a whole. The house of cards can’t keep growing taller forever.
Based on OP's photos, on a PPP basis that would suggest the Canadian dollar isn't worthless, but rather massively overvalued right now; Other stats like worker productivity, etc say the same thing.
Nobody’s actually saying that
And now compare property taxes in those areas. Ontario has very low property tax so rather than collect it annually from homeowners a large chunk is collected from developers
Building codes are shit in texas. Houses are crap. They have a ton of problems if the temp goes below freezing.
I mean the price of a house is what someone is willing and capable to pay for it. It's not rocket science.
Lol OP just getting burned left and right in the comments
Labour is just high over here in Paris... /s
The value of a home itself does not go up (modifications aside). The value of the land it sits on can.
Please move to Texas. It'll lessen the demand for housing here for the rest of us.
Is it because Canada is a ponzi scheme? Or wait am I reaching…?
You're forgetting you and your family will \*lose\* that home at the first major medical setback, hey. The American dream is long since dead.
If you built the smaller house in Houston it would would be significantly cheaper than in Markham They are probably right about the house construction price but the land is what makes up the bulk of the cost
They use illegal labour in Texas from mexico
It's all supply and demand
Who says this?
Cost of Living. Supply and Demand. The difference in price is similar to the reason that the cost of groceries varies between different neighbourhoods. People will push prices to the limit of what they think others are willing to pay. Prices in Toronto are incredibly unaffordable, yet, these homes continue to sell, because there are buyers willing to pay.
Texas real estate taxes are 2% annually, apparently. It makes holding real estate much more expensive.
Lol…. Sure some costs have gone up but at the peak of reno mania (2021/22) contractors charged obscene amounts… for example, buddy got quoted 80k for a 700sqft deck I built one by myself, part time (was working full days), for about 8k Yes materials shot up for a bit, but costing is stupid. I do hear that building and permits etc is a huge chunk of price right now.
Don’t disagree with your general thesis that Canadian houses are overpriced but this house could: A) need extensive interior renovation, which in Canadian prices at $100-150/sf almost doubles this price B) be in a bad location. Look at Hamilton a few years ago, people were snapping up big houses in areas people didn’t want to live for cheap.
Canadian realtor here. Been reading the comments... Of course there's a million factors, the main one people seem to forget is simple offer and demand. No, our Canadian homes aren't ''worth'' that they are going for...but that is the current market value. And, that Houston home wouldn't sell if it were listed at 800k. Having said that, at pure face value, I'd take a basement-less house costing 25%-50% of the same one with a basement in Canada, thank you very much lol. Honestly I've always felt that most US cities offer SO much more house than here in Canada (sure, take out Manhattan, LA and SF). I was in Florida last summer and could not get over how much house 500k could get you, in comparison to here. We might not have an immigrant worker issue, BUT we do have unions controlling construction wages sky high, government controlling prices on so many things...and let me tell you our homes aren't better built because of it.
First of all, Texas is not dense, Toronto is. Second of all, it's the land thats become expensive in canada. Thirdly, there is much more foreign investment in gta, than Texas. Canada had been 3rd in foreign investment in thebworld. Our real estate accounts for majority of our gdp. The rise in pricing is demand related. Not value based. I agree. Canadian prices don't make sense locally. But I know why it is. You have to look at it from a global pov. Nothing in canada makes sense. The country isn't competitive in the world economy. 70% is service based. Our largest trade partner is the US, accounting for 85% of all import / export.
Canada has the most expense supply chain in the G7, perhaps even the world. 2. Taxes are 50 percent more in Canada than the USA. Tax free day in Canada is the end of June in Canada, but the start of April in the USA. Tax free day being the date at which you have now finished paying all your taxes and the rest of your salary is yours to keep. 3. Residential Labour in subdivision construction in Canada is all unionized. LiUNA 183 controls virtually all subdivision construction sitw and total remuneration for a LiUNA laborer is in the 65.00 to 75.00 per hour range. That's cost. Not charge out rates. In Texas, they are all non unionized with a large percentage being illegals working for 8 bucks an hour, maybe. 4. In Ontario, fully 31 percent of the price of a new home is TAX. I doubt in Texas it's anything save and except a grand or two for a permit. Doug Ford tried to lower development fees in Ontario and was roundly criticized as being in bed with developers. 5. Texas does not have a state income tax. In Ontario, we have a massive provincial income tax. 6. Texas doesn't have a GST (5 percent) in and their state sales tax is 6 percent vs. 8 percent on Ontario. 7. A 72 cent dollar (and dropping). You seem to have overlooked that. It is now being said that the Canadian dollar will probably drop to 50 cents. Get your head around the impacts of that. 8. Canada is the least productive nation of any G7 nation. And falling. This is a massive problem as it means everything costs more and GDP per capita is falling. American workers are far more productive than Canadian workers. 9. Legislation by the former liberal government of Ontario has hugely impacted the residential construction industry of Ontario and driven development costs through the roof and are now the highest in North America. You think they have green belt legislation in Texas? 10. Edit, It occurred to me that your example is in Texas. Typically American homes in hot climates don't have basements. They are just built on posts and beams and then skirted to look presentable. (It's a bullshit design.) In Canada, virtually every house is built on a basement foundation due to needing to found the building below the frost level. But basements are very expesive to construct. It's really cheap to build souther US style with no basement. If I had to estimate, the cost to build a basement adds 30 percent to the cost to construct. Not chump change. (And even if I was to live in the southern US, I'd want a basement.) I could go on and on and on. To build a house in the GTA, your cost to construct as a homeowner is 450 to 500 per square foot if you're lucky. That doesn't include the cost of the land, taxes, permits, engineering, driveway, landscaping, utility hook-up fees. That's just the cost to build the box, middle of the road finishes and to code.
Part of it is that property taxes are very high in Texas as there is no income tax
They also have heaps and heaps of ridiculously cheap immigrant labour flooding their border. So they can get away with pay lower wages.
Who the fuck is suggesting labour and materials are the reason prices are fucked? By far the land is the most expensive part, especially in the expensive areas like Vancouver and Toronto.
No one says that. Your assumption is rage bait.
Just the land to build that house would cost more than that in Toronto, likely at least double if not triple. Taxes and fees here would add on another quarter million or so and you haven't even put a shovel in the ground.
Supply V demand
Way more bigger cities in USA, people have way more options on where they want to live….. so prices are cheaper…
Those people never built a house.
It’s pure supply and demand. Cost of materials and labour going up can influence a seller to charge more but a buyer still has to accept the price. The simple reality is people in Canada and the world will pay obscene prices to live in the GTA (or commuting distance to Toronto) whereas people do not have nearly the same demand of Houston. This is probably because the US has so many in demand cities to live in whereas we have a handful at most. I personally would never pay those prices for Paris ON but someone is willing to or the price will drop. Also factor in fx as well
This is 741,064 CAD. Also property taxes are usually much higher in the USA. Its not too far off from what is available here. Also their mortgage terms are much longer, alot of people have locked in a 1-2% rate for 30 years.