No you're not the only one but I have found that really religious people tend to start brainwashing at birth to make sure it sticks and is ingrained in their entire being. I've driven past protests that have children that are just learning to walk.
Why do you think conservatives care so much about teaching kids and having control over them? It’s because their worldview claims that adults are allowed to say anything and believe anything without consequence so they can’t have control over that so they would like to have complete control over children then.
"The only moral abortion is my abortion"
Honestly, I don't love these types of redemption stories. It shows a startling lack of empathy and hypocrisy. I have found in my experience that these types of folks don't have sympathy for anything they personally haven't had to deal with.
I guess I'm happy that this person came around, but what other things are they not sympathetic about? How many other issues do they ignore or are hurtful about (e.g. more times like the alienated friend).
The hypocrisy around sexuality and the religion is doubly infuriating. Abortion wasn't even a Christian issue (outside of Catholicism) until the issue was hijacked by the right-wing in the 1970s. So, this supposedly religious person who is railing against abortion (which isn't even a problem in the Bible) is having premarital sex and that's okay? Infuriating
I think the part you're missing is the insane rhetoric around this that's implanted in you from your first steps in anti-abortion households. It doesn't even occur to you that a moral person could abort a child. It's presented as so antithetical to everything you believe and stand for that disagreement doesn't even cross your mind. I refused to shame others outside clinics like my parents tried to get me to do. But I still 100% believed they were ethically right.
I was raised evangelical Christian. And there's so much heartlessness that you honestly CAN'T see when the blinders are put on. You don't see contradictions. You believe you're doing it out if love and biblical teachings, and see the other person as a fallen human who needs a harsh reality check so their soul can survive their murderous ways. And it never occurs to you a Christian could think otherwise.
It's designed so that you accept the cognitive dissonance or risk your entire world. You have a loving pastor who teaches it, and you have dinner at their home and potluck with your church's congregation and feel the love and nurturing of belonging. You have to condemn every person you've grown up with, and reexamine every belief down to your eternal salvation, just to go against what seems like a basic "murder or no murder" dichotomy. Unless there is a harsh reality away from that insular church life, you aren't shaken from a belief that you still find compassionate and loving.
It's all in the brainwashing and the framing of the arguments. I thought I was kind and loving a person far beyond basic free will, and didn't think everyone around me was wrong. Instead, I knew if I disagreed I'd be ostracized.
Eventually I did. I left the church. But it's a huuuuge step that most people who haven't lived it don't quite grasp because of how alien and brainwashy it is
Or pro life politicians having the mistress they cheated on their sacred marriage with have an abortion while penning legislation banning abortions.
Not to mention the whole "sanctity of marriage" argument they throw out there to stop same sex couples from marrying while also cheating on their wives. Lmao
There's a saying in my language that translates like "Do as the priest says, not as the priest does".
It's awfully common for people who preach against something to actually do it themselves.
70% of abortions are performed on women who self identify as Christians.
It's estimated that roughly 30% of those are performed on the same women who are standing in front of the clinic calling other women baby killers.
Former escort for PP,I know for a fact that happens, because we watched it happen.
The loudest,most vehement protester we had came to the back door covered and we had to escort her in, she wanted to be anonymous so her buddies wouldn't recognize her, and proceeded to degrade everyone in the clinic all the way through her abortion,because ya know *HER* reasons were "valid", and everyone else's were not.
You guessed it, 2 weeks later she's right back in front of the damn clinic that she just had an abortion at,their hypocrisy is beyond infuriating.
Unfortunately for the world, she already had the beginnings of her own baseball team. Most grew up to be exactly like her, the other 2 are now VERY loud and proud LGBTQ activists.
Karma a bitch 😆
This is the Lord’s work. Protecting the vulnerable while they are going through hard times. Screaming at a scared girl making one of the hardest decisions of her life that’s the devil’s work. It’s insane how wrong religion has got this. I believe in God, I’ve read the Bible, and because I still have a functioning brain I’m able to determine that escorting women for planned parenthood is the actual “Christian” thing to do.
To be fair, all this fuss about abortion isn't even in the Bible.
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
The Catholics didn't give a crap about it until about 1869 years after Christ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_abortion
And the Protestants didn't care up until about 50 years ago, as a proxy for Jim Crow laws.
https://www.salon.com/2021/12/18/history-of-abortion/
I used to be able to hold my head high, stroll into Harry's and proclaim "Today I would like to purchase a condom. In fact, today I think I'll have a french tickler..."
Why don't you?
You know, while "Every Sperm is Sacred" rightfully gets lots of love, that follow-up scene is also wonderfully clever, even if more subtle.
Honestly, some clinics WILL deny patients if they behave like this. Like, they’d accept you if you were a protester, but you can’t sit there, degrading the doctors and nurses and calling them murderers the whole time. That will get you booted, for good reason.
i’ve heard that medical professionals who work with abortions oftentimes are trained to deal with these people because they are often verbally abusive and can even get physical. like, i’ve heard a lot of stories where the woman would be cursing an assistant out and calling them a sinner as they held her hand while she was having a procedure
I'm a nurse who works in abortion care. Can confirm similar things have happened to me. I had a person mid-abortion tell me, "I can't wait until they make this illegal." It wasn't her first or last abortion (not that that matters to me, but it clearly wasn't the first time she needed that kind of health care). I think on some level, it helps the person distance themselves from a traumatic situation. Still, that's no excuse to create barriers for others who need that service. It just shows a severe lack of empathy.
I would not be surprised at all actually. Christianity seems to be built on telling other people what they can or cannot do while ignoring those rules for yourself.
So I think a good lesson is to separate conviction from judgement. Conviction is wiling to live by a set of standards and values. Judgement is evaluating someone else’s actions based on set of standards and beliefs they may not have even agreed to. Imo if one isn’t living a belief system out it’s not a conviction.
Yeah. I’ll chime in and say I grew up extremely religious. And from experience I’d say OP probably felt a lot more decided than even just “until you have to live it.” They already did. Growing up standing outside and actively persecuting others is a real real conviction. So to change from that is even more impressive in my opinion.
I like the Marcus Aurelius quote: "When you first rise in the morning tell yourself; I will encounter busibodies, ingrates, egomaniacs, liars, and jealous and cranks. They are all stricken with these afflictions because they don't know the difference between good and evil. Because I have understood the beauty of good and ugliness of evil, I know these wrong-doers are still akin to me. I can not be angry at them or hate them for we are made for cooperation."
Thanks for that one. I love this one from him also:
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones"
I wholeheartedly recommend "Meditations" to anyone who will listen.
Not only does it excite history geeks to read the personal thoughts of one of the most powerful people in the world 2000 years ago, it's a pretty quick read too, and even just taking a little bit of Stoic philosophy to heart does wonders for your blood pressure.
Been waiting for that process of change in my family my entire life. Not gonna happen. They are judge, jury, and executioner in their eyes. So we gave up.
That's my biggest issue with these people. She spewed HATRED at people and lacked any sort of empathy and the second it came to her she was like oh nevermind it's actually a good thing. Also since she didn't tell her bf and mom I bet she is still going along with all the hate they say so she really isn't standing up to these disgusting views she had before. Massive hypocrite who hasn't changed at all. I bet in a few years she will be back at protests and conveniently "forget" she herself has had an abortion.
Exactly. Her secret regret helps no one. She needs to take responsibility for the harm she caused by publicly disavowing her prior stance and devoting just as much time to pro-choice activism now as she did to pro-forced-birth activism in the past.
did you let your bf and mom know you had it, or are they still under the impression that you are "pure?" Have you renounced your pro-baby beliefs or are you quietly pro-choice, so it looks like you had a change of heart rather than a change of circumstance?
You have a responsibility to undo some of the pain you put into the world. You should at least try to help people to right the wrongs you did.
If she speaks out she's gonna get hate from her hateful church and family. That wouldn't be every convenient for her.
Convenience is her religion.
And she thinks WE are hateful 🤣🤣
Absolutely!! Am I wicked for wanting pain and suffering to be bestowed onto individuals that have caused so much pain and suffering? I've gotten to experience this pain personally, does it make me wicked?
she told reddit! duh now the world knows! shes going to go to church sunday, leave and go yell at the brunch buffet waitress and leave no tip. oh and she will be hanging out with those church goers with their signs....hypocrite
When I worked in a restaurant, the after church crowd was ALWAYS the worst to deal with. They are disrespectful, messy, run you around, and for your troubles the don't tip you.
That edit is patronizing as fuck too. All the hate? She’s the one who spewed hate. The “hate” she’s getting here is just people pointing out that she doesn’t deserve a cookie for her sudden change of heart. She was having premarital sex so she wasn’t some super observant Christian. She’s another one who picked and chose what was acceptable to her and to her, trying to ruin other women’s lives was the tits until she faced the same thing. That’s not growth, it’s cowardice. She didn’t even tell her boyfriend that she was pregnant. 🙄
Not to mention her mother, as well as the friend she had berated. No open discussion, no apologies, no honesty. Glad she changed her views but she still has ways to go.
I really hope your old high school friend is okay, that’s really fucked up. Yuck.
Edit: I’m not just gonna ignore what she said because she changed now. Back in high school I bullied this kid Justin who was my friend at one point just because the “popular” people started talking to me. And now I don’t talk to any of those people at all, but I think about Justin a lot, I wish I wouldn’t have done that shit. That doesn’t mean I wasn’t a piece of shit, and I still am a piece of shit for doing it, but it’ll never happen again. I hope OP feels this way too, there’s no other right way to feel about this.
Yes it is, but I give sympathy to the vile behavior, because I would of done the same at that age. At 3 years old my mother put me in the front of protests with signs saying "I could have been aborted!" While dressed like a innocent Prarie princess. Drilled in my head were horrors about salting fetuses, tearing them to shreds, cutting the spinal cord during live births, etc. It becomes less political and more about grousome torture to the innocent. Obviously I have grown up, researched and realized that this was fear pandering. It's suppressing women's bodies, choices and controlling their lives. I am now fervently prochoice. I am really proud of OP for coming to the realization that it is about the woman, not the unformed embryo. I would recommend she reach out to apologize to her friend.
I know perspectives are different, but I was the child of two very young teens who had no business having kids, with no money, no ambition, no maturity until they hit mid twenties, when I was already 10 years old. My dad was pro life and my mom was pro dad, for a little bit anyways. Then, they broke up and I became a pawn in their anger games, pitted against my dad, not understanding why, angry at my mom, ect. I became the trouble student by 2nd grade, clinically depressed at 9, and suicidal at 11. I would never do it because my parents believed suicide was weak and selfish so that's really the only thought that kept me pushing. One day my dad told me he had actually pushed my mom for an abortion before his prolife grandma taught him different. I was **pissed**.
I felt forced into this miserable life I didn't want to live, with miserable parents who set me back in life from the minute I was born, in a community full of crime and anger with little opportunities to escape. I felt like he was a selfish fuck, who could have spared someone misery but didn't because of his own selfishness, and told him as much. For a long time I was so angry at him for *chosing* to give me a shit life, especially when they chose to have kids later on in life who were doing much better solely because their examples were adults and not literal 19 year olds (yes, I remember both their 19th birthdays).
I felt that if they had aborted me, and gone on to have their other children later on in life it would have been better for everyone, and there'd be no resentment on either side. It took many many years of therapy and medicine cocktails to balance out those feelings, but it has always left me feeling like pro life is just pure "pro ego"
This. All of this. People do NOT understand the horrific tactics used to recruit kids into the pro-life movement. We were shown videos of aborted fetuses, given cash prizes for making artwork or writing essays in support of the pro-life movement, told that abortion caused a baby to die in agony, given signs and told to march outside clinics because that’s what God wanted us to do. All of this before even reaching high school. That’s the insidious truth about the pro-life movement— it starts with brainwashing innocent kids.
Its so crazy to think, that fundementalists would do all this shit to kids. And then have the guts to make laws saying teachers cant talk about gender and sexuality to students. Because its "too adult". But showing sbortion videos to children isnt?
Its as it goes- rules for thee, snd not for me.
My husband’s little cousin believes all of this bullshit & she is 10000% being brainwashed by their grandparents. She’s been, not only politically but spiritually, brainwashed since she was a little kid. She’s now 18 and doesn’t even believe in evolution because the Bible doesn’t speak on it. I’m watching first hand how bad it really is and how these churches use kids as weapons to push their agenda. I’m hoping she gets out of that town, away from their grandparents and learns that everything she’s been raised on is a crock of bullshit.
I doubt that friend wants to hear from her ever again. She should only reach out if this thread full of people unleashing on her wasn’t enough “hate” to make her feel better.
Having an abortion is traumatizing already — try adding some bitch you thought was your friend screaming in your face about it, calling you a murderer. The violence I’d want to commit. Her friend is stronger than me for holding back.
Man I try to be sympathetic to that shit but my mom and dad never told me anything about abortion and as a man I made my own decisions to believe it’s a woman’s choice whatever she feels she needs to do.
And the idea that a woman can’t be sympathetic to other women in that situation, until it actually affects her, is pretty reprehensible.
These abortion conversations keep popping up around me lately so I got a lot to say but I don’t wanna come off like an asshole, I get what you mean it’s just frustrating that people wanna control others choices at all.
The thing is a lot the nuanced conversations from a layman's perspective doesn't come from a blank slate.
You were able to come to your own conclusions based on being a man from a family where abortion wasn't a deeply disgusting and shameful topic. Which isn't wrong, live your life fam.
But when everyone around you, everyone you care about, tells you that they're blending fetuses with chopsticks, that the only people who get abortions are bad and careless people, that "how you would you feel if YOU were aborted", that conception is the majesty of God's blessing upon you and rejecting that is the most vile thing a sinner can do, etc - it is very hard to make objective choices about abortion free from biases, especially at a developmental stage
Obviously OP is in the wrong and should have come to this realization much earlier than when it became a personal one. But ignoring the source of the trash takes and attacking the problem leads to just shouting matches from Echo chambers instead of any actual discourse
This is precisely the reason my kids don't know my family. I have very strong opinions about religion and Christianity in particular, but my kids have never heard a word about it from me. Every time they bring up the question of God or Jesus, I refer them to their mother or my in-laws. I'm not the person they need to learn from on these topics. I have given them basic information as to how different religions operate, but I won't discuss my beliefs with them until they're older. (Currently 9 & 7)
I want them to decide for themselves when they're old enough. Force feeding scripture to children is tantamount to brainwashing IMO. I see religion in the same light as Santa Claus. It's a cute story about a guy a long time ago that did some nice things. Then it got monetized and politicized. One day my kids will find out Santa isn't real. But it won't be because of me. When they want to dive into my mindset on belief systems, they'll find a similar result. But as for now, I want them to think for themselves.
I think this is the big question, a lot of people become 'bad' after having a bad life or adults teaching them as kids to be bad and while why they became this way is understandable, it doesn't make what they did any less bad. I wonder where is the line drawn? When are you a good person that done bad things due to your past and when are you a bad person that has done bad things and your past doesn't really matter because you're a bad person?
It’s especially frustrating when men are the ones shaming women.
Bro. You don’t have a womb. Fuck off to the other end of the earth please. That is truly vile behaviour.
I used to tell the men to go home, take their poor kids whom they dragged to the clinic with them, make the kids some pancakes, and let them watch Saturday cartoons. Little kids are way too young to be dragged into the subject of abortion. I couldn't imagine a little kid having to deal with that. Horrifying.
Because it's easy to shame someone, knowing that the person doing the shaming will actually never have to be that position. Yeah they could get a wife/gf pregnant and that woman could get an abortion, but to that man that would still be something she did and not him.
The situation would be a lot more simple if it wasn't drilled into her head since a young age. The thing about religion and especially being raised in religion is that your whole life is centered around it and you're taught that if you don't believe in it and don't do what you're taught is right you're going to be punished for the rest of eternity. It's extremely difficult to change from that notion and it's really upsetting but in situations like this it takes actually having to go through it to change your mind but I'm glad she did. It's not her fault she was raised like that and pushed into those beliefs from birth.
For real. I also can’t believe that this conservative Christian woman had the AUDACITY to shame other women for their pregnancy and abortions and she’s out here having reckless, pre-marital sex. I see no husband mentioned. I’m sure her choice would have been different if she had a husband to rely on. But no. She’s out here sinning and she has the gall to scream at other people for THEIR supposed sins. Disgusting
>About 6 months ago I got a positive test.
>Didn’t tell my bf
Why are you having sex out of wedlock? If you are against abortions, I'd assume you would be against pre-marital sex as well.
Keeping that relationship strong keeping secrets from her boyfriend.. I see this working out well. This is called lying by omission. 9th commandment, don’t deceit your neighbor. Hypocrite all over the place. This is why the church is hated.
You were willing to follow Christianity’s rules on abortion so harshly that you likely traumatized a friend at 16; but you are lax in following Christianity’s rules on not having sex before marriage?
Who said you get to pick and choose? Real hypocrite vibes coming from this post.
This is the comment I was after.
Makes me question what exactly was her upbringing where she picks one to condemn and the other not too. Like as a Christian it would of made more sense to condemn both, treat both as terrible. Choosing to condemn abortion but be fine with premarital sex? Come on…
As much as it looks like a feel good story, you only changed when you were put in the siuation, so you changed because of your own need, not because you were empathic toward other women. Sorry but I don't really feel like giving you congrats
Edit : the hate ? We're not patting you in the back, but we're certainly not spewing hate. You spent years shaming other women (your ex bestfriend included, well bestfriend might not be the good term, seeing how you threw her in the trash), insulting and harassing them, you pressured poor young women into having a baby they could not afford. That's fucking hate, you see ? What have you done to mend up all the wrong you're doing ? The hypocrisy and lack of self awareness, my god
I hope she really did change her mind, but it reminded me too much of the opinion piece "The only morally right abortion is my abortion", where this doctor, IIRC, said that she's had christian women yell and curse her as a killer and a murderer AS she was performing the abortion. So many of them, she said, were suddenly OK with abortion when it happened to them or to their kids, citing things like "they need to finish the school" or "this will wreck their life" or something like it... only to pretty much go back to picketing against those other women, who also needed the abortions, but for whom it obviously was not OK that perhaps their lives would be affected too.
Exactly, because convenience is all that matters to her. And in OPs head it'll all be the fault the mean godless liberals. If they had just respected her change of heart they'd have a new ally, but they had to be all "hateful".
That poor HS friend.
Exactly.
She hid it not because she knew it was her right, but because she didn't want the other pro-lifers around her to know. She can keep up the facade of her old life, continue bashing people, and still feel fine about what she did. What an awful, shameful person.
Lol she'll probably pretend to be pro life in front of her family forever too. Just internally having different opinions about such topics does nothing. I will never have sympathy for such people. This is why pro choice people were right when they said it's easy to defend the unborn until the responsibility falls on you. If pro lifers actually cared about these children they'd also be heavily in support of adoption and would try to aid those children instead of funding money into all other nonsense. They like the moral superiority of this ideology, not the responsibilities.
I forget which one, but a Republican congressman was openly against same sex marriage then his son came out as gay. He changed his mind because he thought his son should have the opportunity to marry who he loves. When it was other peoples sons and daughters he didn’t care because “god said no” or some bullshit. They’re awful people.
Right? How ironic for a group of people who follow a man who died for our sins, loves all his children, only he can judge etc etc... like clearly not only he can judge since people like this will literally berate somebody else for a choice they make in the future.
I agree with you!
I understand that growing up in this culture can lead you to protesting yourself.
But promising resources without knowing what they are, is naive and negligent. Especially when this happened to your best friend and you should have wanted these “resources” for her instead of quoting the bible if a tiny cell is so important. This should have been your “growing up” and empathy moment. This girl was your best friend and she knew about your protesting. She trusted you knowing your prejudices and you should have given her and you the opportunity to grow.
I’m glad you did what was best for you. No one should tell a stranger what they should do without all the information. I also find it a little negligent that with all your years of experience that you got pregnant. I assume that you met a lot of these woman so I don’t understand how their pain would not have an impact on you and how you live your life. I think that you felt so much better than them and dismissed everything because your belief made you better.
I’m happy you’re a more rounded person now, and I’m so sorry about the abortion. It must be one of the hardest things to do even when the why is so logical. And I’m sorry that my response isn’t very “yeah good for changing you mind”, but to truly make up for how you treated so many before, this isn’t it and having an abortion doesn’t wipe the slate clean.
I’m just sorry for OP and everyone mentioned in this post
Agree...wouldn't that be the "Christian" way to face this..bet she lies about it for the rest of her family's lives. (I was raised 7th day adventist- religion crammed down my throat till I was 15 ,went to church school for 10 years...I haven't looked back)
People like you are the reason there’s not a chance I would ever go to church again.
You bashed and shit on people for years then when you found yourself in their situation it was suddenly completely fine. That’s not how this works, you stood there telling people that fetuses are living things, except when it was yours.
I genuinely hope you go and apologize to everyone you ever hurt over this topic and work hard to become better. Before you twist it in your mind as some kind of spiritual attack and make it all Christ like to fit your narrative. Sky daddy had no part in this, you choose to have unprotected sex and you choose what to do with the consequences of it.
I was forced to go to an ultra strict church about 3 times a week for most of my childhood. I grew up being resentful towards anything religion related. I like to think as people grow up, their moral compasses should always be to be kind to people, do the right things, etc etc. And a lot of the shit Christians like to preach and guilt people with are things Jesus would have handled very differently. Dude was hanging out with a known Prostitute ffs. WWJD indeed.
These religious nutters are trying to take over our country. They want to turn America into The Handmaid's Tale. Their culture of cruelty is getting worse by the second.
I was born in the early 60's. Women couldn't get birth control, have abortions, have credit in their own names, marital rape was legal, and no community property laws, which meant that women got nothing if they divorced their abusive husbands. Us girls weren't even allowed to wear pants to school. Gay people were abused and tortured to the point where they committed suicide before they'd let anyone know they were gay. Parents were expected to beat their children with that "spare the rod, spoil the child" bullshit.
The only people who had rights were white, straight, Christian men.
I can't go back to that. Our country can't go back to that.
Jesus would despise those people almost as much as I do.
Sad part is, they seem to be succeeding. Oklahoma just made it a felony punishable by ten years in prison for the abortion provider..Idaho also made it illegal, similar to texas, even a rapists family member or any member of either family can now sue.....meanwhile Tennessee is going full tilt on child marriage laws.
They are dragging us all back with them to the Stone Age, working equally hard to suppress future voting with various restrictions and installing puppets who WILL help overturn future elections.
Yeah, I can't go back to it either. I was born in a town in LA called Inglewood, and back then, realtors were forbidden to sell or rent homes to black people and a few miles away in El Segundo, there was an ordinance sign that said all black people were to be inside by sundown. That's where we're headed again and it's hard to get my head around.
I’m from Venice Beach. I had no idea about this history of Inglewood and El Segundo. Thats nuts bc just a few decades later in my lifetime it’s predominantly people of color in Inglewood. El Segundo is mostly industrial.
Same, I grew up in a super religious household and found myself "rebelling" against my parents with my views on sex before marriage (though I carried so much guilt about that), LGBTQ+ rights and reproductive freedom. I was just following Jesus' lead; what the fuck did I know.
Totally agree with everything in this comment except for the apologize to everyone bit. I feel like apologies should generally be reserved for the people that are actively in our life, otherwise they are not genuine. For example, to go out of one's way and reach out to apologize to someone they haven't seen in years is more focused on soothing the apologizer's guilt or cognitive dissonance than the harm done to the other person. Apologies are a form of communication intended to repair relationships but if there's no relationship to repair, most times the apology just brings back the other person's painful emotions thus doing my harm than good.
Additionally, the verbiage OP uses very much indicates they only feel regret for the situation rather than remorse for their own actions. This post is full of shifting blame onto their upbringing and religion as opposed to acknowledging any harm they may have caused and taking personal responsibility for their actions. The fact that OP hasn't faced any external consequences such as informing their mother or boyfriend of their abortion and dealing with the inevitable is a testament to their attempts at compartmentalization. This is a normal first step in the progression of self-change and it's okay they're only at this point. It becomes problematic if one remains stuck in this mindset instead of continuing to work on themselves and address the deeper issues at play.
There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on and religion is often a deep rooted part of someone's community and literal sense of self so this is going to be a tough journey. We can only hope OP takes the appropriate steps to work on themselves and become a better member of their community than they were before.
So, you were a Christian. You went against how you were raised, and had premarital sex without a condom I’m assuming. Got pregnant. Still did not inform the baby’s father. Had an abortion. Now your “values” have conveniently changed and abortion is cool now cause you did it?
If you had values you’d have been nicer to your friend, have avoided pregnancy, you’d tell the father the truth which he deserves.
All I hear is “I” “I” and “I”. Straight selfishness.
This is giving me real Meghan McCain “The View” vibes when she came back from maternal leave and ONLY after facing PPD, started advocating for maternal leave and how it’s important that every mother have access to it regardless of socioeconomic status. Like that great fam but it took you really going through post partum depression to be like maybe all women should be able to stay home and take care of their kids and not worry about not having to work right after having a baby. Like great your advocating for it now but I kind of expect most people to have the sense to be able to see someone’s perspective without having to experience it first. Like should we make all these politicians lower and middle class so they can actually care about the problems most of this country deals with instead of fucking posturing with blind faith saying the shit equivalent to us like “there are resource’s”
Plus 'there are resources' doesn't cover a lot of situations.
Rape pregnancy is horrible and traumatic even if you adopt the kid out.
Child pregnancy is a thing be it from a pedophile or a child with another child. Even with resorces Im sorry but a kid should not be having a baby themselves.
There are women in abusive situations. Yes you can help get them out but abuse isn't black and white and it can fuck with you mentally and a baby and child shouldn't be thrown into the mix of any of that.
And soooo much more. 'Resorces' are something that can help in SOME cases but honestly isn't the answer for every situation a abortion may be wanted or needed in.
Pregnancy can ruin our bodies in ways we can't just bounce back from both mentally and physically and again there is just so much more that goes into being pro-choice/ pro-life that many pro-lifers just don't think about or even care about.
It’s great that you realized you were wrong, but it’s deeply concerning that it took you actually being forced to live the nightmare for yourself in order to actually start caring. Next time, try and put yourself in other people’s shoes and feel some empathy for their situation. Just because it’s not currently affecting you personally doesn’t mean it isn’t greatly impacting the lives of many others who are living breathing people just like you.
What you can do is organize and vote accordingly, help to stop the rise of the politicians trying to ban your free choice in the matter. That is what you can do for so many others. go to counterprotests. Apologize to your friend
It makes me sad that people have to directly experience something to empathise with others, and sometimes not even then.
The only moral abortion is my abortion : https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
It’s good that you’ve changed OP and it takes strength to admit that you were wrong but I still can’t help but hold anger towards you and people like you.
Honest question. How did you figure pre-marital sex was okay, but abortion is not? Both are wrong in the eyes of Christianity. You say you struggle with your faith now, but if not for this pregnancy scare you would still be having pre-marital sex. This is a genuine question that has always confused be with religious folk, and I've seen far to many examples of similar situations that cause people to question their faith.
I'm glad you're not all "the only moral abortion is my abortion." will you advocate now for the women whose right to choose, the choice you got to make despite your upbringing and moral convictions, is being curtailed? I really hope so, even if you do it quietly. I hope that this revelation leads to many more because restricted access to abortion is only one part of the huge problem we have in this country.
My mom’s best friend in high school got pregnant when she was 16 or 17. Her bf (who would then go on to be her husband and eventually ex husband) was very adamant that he didn’t want kids. She was terrified, didn’t really have anyone to turn to for help. My mom’s younger sister (they were NOT religiously raised mind you) spouted so much pro life nonsense at her. How horrible she was for considering abortion, blah blah blah. My mom’s friend eventually had to go to one of those sketchier clinics to get it done, because they were all poor and she had no help. She’s infertile now because of the procedure and has struggled for years because of it. My mom’s sister continued to tell her she was awful for getting the procedure done.
People like you disgust me. You won’t get any brownie points with me for realizing the error of your ways. Whether you agreed with what they were doing or not, you absolutely shit on women going through the worst and hardest moments of their lives. The things you did and said will stick with them their entire lives.
Not for them, but ok for me. And you only realized this when you needed the service. Wow. It's funny how the most religious people are often the most selfish and narcissistic while lacking any shred of empathy.
I bet you’re only secretly pro-choice, right? If asked you would still spout pro-life rhetoric, right? How would you vote? Would you publicly support a woman who needed an abortion? It is good that your paradigm was challenged, but what does that mean? You’re only okay with abortion in secret and when it benefits you?
it didn’t ever once occur to you that those women you screamed at probably had jobs and lives they cared about? or didn’t have enough money? it’s not like you couldn’t mentally put that together, you just didn’t care.
They don't worry about those things.. God will provides. That's how they wash their hands of all the life's they helped save... God got their back unto the next. They have all that magical thinking- It's all God's will anyway. Lol
I’m so glad you were able to quietly and discreetly get an abortion. This is something women in states such as texas and Oklahoma can’t do because of people like you.
It is not enough to say you’ve changed but you need to actively participate in this change to mitigate the damage you’ve done, personally, to women in need.
I’m sorry but no one feels sorry for people who’s whole outlook is “the only moral abortion is my own”.
Find peace.
Also this is why I can’t stand religion. People cherry pick the aspects they want to follow. But somehow you didn’t follow the “sex before marriage” “rule”
The hate does not bother you? That's your problem, the things people are saying are astute observations of your hypocrisy. If it didn't bother you maybe you haven't learned anything. Maybe it should bother you.
The fact that you were having premarital sex tells all. Christians only pick and choose to follow what the Bible says. And the Bible also doesn’t say anything about abortion being bad either.
I’m glad you have grown through the process and am sorry for the situations you’ve been put in
But I also feel like showing empathy and understanding for others only when you’ve been in their situation as well is short sighted/immature behavior and hopefully you’ve grown more generally in that way as well
Sincerely best wishes to you
Yep big time. She will hide this from everybody and may never go to another anti-abortion protest but if she isn’t brave enough to tell the people she loves, she isn’t really *doing* anything. She isn’t going to rock her church and demand they actually do provide resources to women or demand they stop protesting. I doubt she will leave the church at all. She isn’t gonna join NARAL or become active in protecting this right for other women.
If she does, then I sincerely apologize for my cynicism. But to me, this changes nothing.
You’re still pro-life just weak. You didn’t think you’d get in that situation and when you did you caved. Now you want sympathy points to make you feel better and you’re not getting any. L
Well… remember this and perhaps make sure to tell people what you went through.
For some it may not matter, but maybe you can help others understand the why.
This is what is most commonly referred to as a self-karma. Your religious background taught you too judge and condemn others and you only learned compassion when you became one of those who were judged and condemned by your church. Probably the best thing you can do is stop judging yourself and examine the hypocrisy of what you were taught in your church. Even though the Bible is about loving everyone and that's what Jesus taught, in practice I found most religious people are about judgment and condemnation of others which makes them the total hypocrites.
Oh look another conservative who changed their mind when it happened to them. Is the lack of empathy until it happens to you a feature? It's annoying to see this over and over again, day after day, year after year.
Well, at least you opened your eyes (better late than never), but now you really should go and apologize to those you shamed, especially your friend. It may not be well received, but I think it's the right thing to do.
I still think that folks who protest outside abortion clinics are utter assholes. It's not their freaking body, why do they presume they should voice their opinion about what a person does with their own body?!
You had sex.... and you're not married... you will burn in hell!
Nah joking aside how does that work though, I see alot of religious people going all zealous about certain stuff like anti abortion I your case and recite bible/quoran verses etc yet they look through the fingers on other stuff that those mythical books are against with no fear of hell/gehenna. F ex having premarital sex or committing adultery etc.
I mean if you actually read the Bible there are alot of things commonly done that is sinfull but never emphasized by preachers like eating shellfish and mixing certain textiles.
If you strongly believe the book on one thing that you are willing to shame and protest to get your view accross and believe in God and that the book is his word, how do you justify the other thing that goes against it?
Most people against abortions have had abortions themselves. The mantra has always been "all abortions are immoral except mine."
Glad you stopped drinking the pink coolade.
It’s awful that you actively tried to restrict other women’s access to safe abortions but as soon as you needed one, it’s okay because you’re “moral” and “careful” in your eyes, so you “deserve” to make that choice. I’m sorry you grew up in such an ignorant household, but as soon as you became an adult you were old enough to realize the error of your ways. I left the church because I couldn’t deal with this cruelty and hypocritical behavior.
Edit to add: It is a good thing when people realize the error of their ways, but you should be able to have empathy for others without experiencing something yourself. If we curb the mindset that something is only important or an issue once it happens to us, then the world will be a better place to live.
Am I the only one who finds it extremely inappropriate to drag a 9 year old to these protests?
No you're not the only one but I have found that really religious people tend to start brainwashing at birth to make sure it sticks and is ingrained in their entire being. I've driven past protests that have children that are just learning to walk.
Why do you think conservatives care so much about teaching kids and having control over them? It’s because their worldview claims that adults are allowed to say anything and believe anything without consequence so they can’t have control over that so they would like to have complete control over children then.
I think everyone should be concerned with teaching their kids.
You'd be surprised how many pro-life people have abortions of their own..
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"The only moral abortion is my abortion" Honestly, I don't love these types of redemption stories. It shows a startling lack of empathy and hypocrisy. I have found in my experience that these types of folks don't have sympathy for anything they personally haven't had to deal with. I guess I'm happy that this person came around, but what other things are they not sympathetic about? How many other issues do they ignore or are hurtful about (e.g. more times like the alienated friend). The hypocrisy around sexuality and the religion is doubly infuriating. Abortion wasn't even a Christian issue (outside of Catholicism) until the issue was hijacked by the right-wing in the 1970s. So, this supposedly religious person who is railing against abortion (which isn't even a problem in the Bible) is having premarital sex and that's okay? Infuriating
I think the part you're missing is the insane rhetoric around this that's implanted in you from your first steps in anti-abortion households. It doesn't even occur to you that a moral person could abort a child. It's presented as so antithetical to everything you believe and stand for that disagreement doesn't even cross your mind. I refused to shame others outside clinics like my parents tried to get me to do. But I still 100% believed they were ethically right. I was raised evangelical Christian. And there's so much heartlessness that you honestly CAN'T see when the blinders are put on. You don't see contradictions. You believe you're doing it out if love and biblical teachings, and see the other person as a fallen human who needs a harsh reality check so their soul can survive their murderous ways. And it never occurs to you a Christian could think otherwise. It's designed so that you accept the cognitive dissonance or risk your entire world. You have a loving pastor who teaches it, and you have dinner at their home and potluck with your church's congregation and feel the love and nurturing of belonging. You have to condemn every person you've grown up with, and reexamine every belief down to your eternal salvation, just to go against what seems like a basic "murder or no murder" dichotomy. Unless there is a harsh reality away from that insular church life, you aren't shaken from a belief that you still find compassionate and loving. It's all in the brainwashing and the framing of the arguments. I thought I was kind and loving a person far beyond basic free will, and didn't think everyone around me was wrong. Instead, I knew if I disagreed I'd be ostracized. Eventually I did. I left the church. But it's a huuuuge step that most people who haven't lived it don't quite grasp because of how alien and brainwashy it is
Or pro life politicians having the mistress they cheated on their sacred marriage with have an abortion while penning legislation banning abortions. Not to mention the whole "sanctity of marriage" argument they throw out there to stop same sex couples from marrying while also cheating on their wives. Lmao
There's a saying in my language that translates like "Do as the priest says, not as the priest does". It's awfully common for people who preach against something to actually do it themselves.
70% of abortions are performed on women who self identify as Christians. It's estimated that roughly 30% of those are performed on the same women who are standing in front of the clinic calling other women baby killers. Former escort for PP,I know for a fact that happens, because we watched it happen. The loudest,most vehement protester we had came to the back door covered and we had to escort her in, she wanted to be anonymous so her buddies wouldn't recognize her, and proceeded to degrade everyone in the clinic all the way through her abortion,because ya know *HER* reasons were "valid", and everyone else's were not. You guessed it, 2 weeks later she's right back in front of the damn clinic that she just had an abortion at,their hypocrisy is beyond infuriating.
At least you were able to prevent another one of her.
Unfortunately for the world, she already had the beginnings of her own baseball team. Most grew up to be exactly like her, the other 2 are now VERY loud and proud LGBTQ activists. Karma a bitch 😆
If she already had kids, do you know the reason she wanted to abort that time? What was her justification?
her justification was probably some braindead shit
Probably affair baby
Probably didn’t want another but thought birth control is abortion also. Which is common thinking with people like this.
That’s disgusting. But also thanks for doing what you did.
That’s really sad. It’s like people with latent homosexual tendencies being aggressive or violent towards other homosexuals.
This is the Lord’s work. Protecting the vulnerable while they are going through hard times. Screaming at a scared girl making one of the hardest decisions of her life that’s the devil’s work. It’s insane how wrong religion has got this. I believe in God, I’ve read the Bible, and because I still have a functioning brain I’m able to determine that escorting women for planned parenthood is the actual “Christian” thing to do.
To be fair, all this fuss about abortion isn't even in the Bible. https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights The Catholics didn't give a crap about it until about 1869 years after Christ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_abortion And the Protestants didn't care up until about 50 years ago, as a proxy for Jim Crow laws. https://www.salon.com/2021/12/18/history-of-abortion/
I used to be able to hold my head high, stroll into Harry's and proclaim "Today I would like to purchase a condom. In fact, today I think I'll have a french tickler..."
Why don't you? You know, while "Every Sperm is Sacred" rightfully gets lots of love, that follow-up scene is also wonderfully clever, even if more subtle.
To bad you couldn't deny her start putting these protestors on their place
Honestly, some clinics WILL deny patients if they behave like this. Like, they’d accept you if you were a protester, but you can’t sit there, degrading the doctors and nurses and calling them murderers the whole time. That will get you booted, for good reason.
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i’ve heard that medical professionals who work with abortions oftentimes are trained to deal with these people because they are often verbally abusive and can even get physical. like, i’ve heard a lot of stories where the woman would be cursing an assistant out and calling them a sinner as they held her hand while she was having a procedure
That is some amazing cognitive dissonance and Olympic level mental gymnastics
I'm a nurse who works in abortion care. Can confirm similar things have happened to me. I had a person mid-abortion tell me, "I can't wait until they make this illegal." It wasn't her first or last abortion (not that that matters to me, but it clearly wasn't the first time she needed that kind of health care). I think on some level, it helps the person distance themselves from a traumatic situation. Still, that's no excuse to create barriers for others who need that service. It just shows a severe lack of empathy.
>they are often verbally abusive and can even get physical How "love thy neighbor" Christian of them
There is no hate like Christian love.
It’s the old “the only moral abortion is my abortion” mental hoops
I would not be surprised at all actually. Christianity seems to be built on telling other people what they can or cannot do while ignoring those rules for yourself.
Father Ted: "Fascists dress in black and go around telling people what to do, whereas priests...MORE DRINK!" r/FatherTed
It's a cult always was
“I was pro-life until it was going to effect my life”
"I thought it was murder until it was convenient for me"
Easy to have convictions until you actually have to live by them.
Like OP, this is how learned to have less conviction and judgment. Mr uppercut I am Taking your quote to share with others.
So I think a good lesson is to separate conviction from judgement. Conviction is wiling to live by a set of standards and values. Judgement is evaluating someone else’s actions based on set of standards and beliefs they may not have even agreed to. Imo if one isn’t living a belief system out it’s not a conviction.
Yeah. I’ll chime in and say I grew up extremely religious. And from experience I’d say OP probably felt a lot more decided than even just “until you have to live it.” They already did. Growing up standing outside and actively persecuting others is a real real conviction. So to change from that is even more impressive in my opinion.
Same. Grew up in a cult. Was a terrible person. Took the time to challenge every belief. Now I'm only a flawed person lol
Welcome to The Flawed Club! We put the “fun” in dysfunctional! ;-)
Dear random person of the internet, I am very sorry to inform you that I will have to steal this phrase for later use because it is awesome.
That was beautiful and profound to read. And it really gave me pause. Wish I had an award to give you.
“Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a person in the process of changing.”
I like the Marcus Aurelius quote: "When you first rise in the morning tell yourself; I will encounter busibodies, ingrates, egomaniacs, liars, and jealous and cranks. They are all stricken with these afflictions because they don't know the difference between good and evil. Because I have understood the beauty of good and ugliness of evil, I know these wrong-doers are still akin to me. I can not be angry at them or hate them for we are made for cooperation."
Thanks for that one. I love this one from him also: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones"
I wholeheartedly recommend "Meditations" to anyone who will listen. Not only does it excite history geeks to read the personal thoughts of one of the most powerful people in the world 2000 years ago, it's a pretty quick read too, and even just taking a little bit of Stoic philosophy to heart does wonders for your blood pressure.
Been waiting for that process of change in my family my entire life. Not gonna happen. They are judge, jury, and executioner in their eyes. So we gave up.
Good on you. Give people the opportunity to change but don’t feel beholden to let them hurt you in the meantime
In boxing its "everyones a tough guy with a plan till they get punched in the face" in war its "battle plans never survive the first fired bullet"
It’s the Christian thing to do.
Not just Christians.. I think a lot of ppl are often on moral high horse.
That's my biggest issue with these people. She spewed HATRED at people and lacked any sort of empathy and the second it came to her she was like oh nevermind it's actually a good thing. Also since she didn't tell her bf and mom I bet she is still going along with all the hate they say so she really isn't standing up to these disgusting views she had before. Massive hypocrite who hasn't changed at all. I bet in a few years she will be back at protests and conveniently "forget" she herself has had an abortion.
Exactly. Her secret regret helps no one. She needs to take responsibility for the harm she caused by publicly disavowing her prior stance and devoting just as much time to pro-choice activism now as she did to pro-forced-birth activism in the past.
did you let your bf and mom know you had it, or are they still under the impression that you are "pure?" Have you renounced your pro-baby beliefs or are you quietly pro-choice, so it looks like you had a change of heart rather than a change of circumstance? You have a responsibility to undo some of the pain you put into the world. You should at least try to help people to right the wrongs you did.
She hasn't told anyone, and I don't think she's going to.
If she speaks out she's gonna get hate from her hateful church and family. That wouldn't be every convenient for her. Convenience is her religion. And she thinks WE are hateful 🤣🤣
Absolutely!! Am I wicked for wanting pain and suffering to be bestowed onto individuals that have caused so much pain and suffering? I've gotten to experience this pain personally, does it make me wicked?
she told reddit! duh now the world knows! shes going to go to church sunday, leave and go yell at the brunch buffet waitress and leave no tip. oh and she will be hanging out with those church goers with their signs....hypocrite
When I worked in a restaurant, the after church crowd was ALWAYS the worst to deal with. They are disrespectful, messy, run you around, and for your troubles the don't tip you.
Yeah there’s a big difference between owning your decisions and views, and hiding it so you aren’t shamed.
Rules for thee but not for me
That edit is patronizing as fuck too. All the hate? She’s the one who spewed hate. The “hate” she’s getting here is just people pointing out that she doesn’t deserve a cookie for her sudden change of heart. She was having premarital sex so she wasn’t some super observant Christian. She’s another one who picked and chose what was acceptable to her and to her, trying to ruin other women’s lives was the tits until she faced the same thing. That’s not growth, it’s cowardice. She didn’t even tell her boyfriend that she was pregnant. 🙄
Not to mention her mother, as well as the friend she had berated. No open discussion, no apologies, no honesty. Glad she changed her views but she still has ways to go.
Yeah! wtf was that? She thought everyone gonna be patting her back on how she "changed her mind". What a hypocrite!
Good thing you were able to get your abortion without anyone giving you shit like the same shit you handed out to who knows how many people.
She's very fortunate to receive better treatment then she ever allowed for other women and children.
Actually I’m sure there were protesters outside. Hope they gave her a run for her money. Hypocritical Christian’s can piss right off
👌🏽💯
I really hope your old high school friend is okay, that’s really fucked up. Yuck. Edit: I’m not just gonna ignore what she said because she changed now. Back in high school I bullied this kid Justin who was my friend at one point just because the “popular” people started talking to me. And now I don’t talk to any of those people at all, but I think about Justin a lot, I wish I wouldn’t have done that shit. That doesn’t mean I wasn’t a piece of shit, and I still am a piece of shit for doing it, but it’ll never happen again. I hope OP feels this way too, there’s no other right way to feel about this.
Yes it is, but I give sympathy to the vile behavior, because I would of done the same at that age. At 3 years old my mother put me in the front of protests with signs saying "I could have been aborted!" While dressed like a innocent Prarie princess. Drilled in my head were horrors about salting fetuses, tearing them to shreds, cutting the spinal cord during live births, etc. It becomes less political and more about grousome torture to the innocent. Obviously I have grown up, researched and realized that this was fear pandering. It's suppressing women's bodies, choices and controlling their lives. I am now fervently prochoice. I am really proud of OP for coming to the realization that it is about the woman, not the unformed embryo. I would recommend she reach out to apologize to her friend.
I know perspectives are different, but I was the child of two very young teens who had no business having kids, with no money, no ambition, no maturity until they hit mid twenties, when I was already 10 years old. My dad was pro life and my mom was pro dad, for a little bit anyways. Then, they broke up and I became a pawn in their anger games, pitted against my dad, not understanding why, angry at my mom, ect. I became the trouble student by 2nd grade, clinically depressed at 9, and suicidal at 11. I would never do it because my parents believed suicide was weak and selfish so that's really the only thought that kept me pushing. One day my dad told me he had actually pushed my mom for an abortion before his prolife grandma taught him different. I was **pissed**. I felt forced into this miserable life I didn't want to live, with miserable parents who set me back in life from the minute I was born, in a community full of crime and anger with little opportunities to escape. I felt like he was a selfish fuck, who could have spared someone misery but didn't because of his own selfishness, and told him as much. For a long time I was so angry at him for *chosing* to give me a shit life, especially when they chose to have kids later on in life who were doing much better solely because their examples were adults and not literal 19 year olds (yes, I remember both their 19th birthdays). I felt that if they had aborted me, and gone on to have their other children later on in life it would have been better for everyone, and there'd be no resentment on either side. It took many many years of therapy and medicine cocktails to balance out those feelings, but it has always left me feeling like pro life is just pure "pro ego"
This. All of this. People do NOT understand the horrific tactics used to recruit kids into the pro-life movement. We were shown videos of aborted fetuses, given cash prizes for making artwork or writing essays in support of the pro-life movement, told that abortion caused a baby to die in agony, given signs and told to march outside clinics because that’s what God wanted us to do. All of this before even reaching high school. That’s the insidious truth about the pro-life movement— it starts with brainwashing innocent kids.
Its so crazy to think, that fundementalists would do all this shit to kids. And then have the guts to make laws saying teachers cant talk about gender and sexuality to students. Because its "too adult". But showing sbortion videos to children isnt? Its as it goes- rules for thee, snd not for me.
My husband’s little cousin believes all of this bullshit & she is 10000% being brainwashed by their grandparents. She’s been, not only politically but spiritually, brainwashed since she was a little kid. She’s now 18 and doesn’t even believe in evolution because the Bible doesn’t speak on it. I’m watching first hand how bad it really is and how these churches use kids as weapons to push their agenda. I’m hoping she gets out of that town, away from their grandparents and learns that everything she’s been raised on is a crock of bullshit.
I doubt that friend wants to hear from her ever again. She should only reach out if this thread full of people unleashing on her wasn’t enough “hate” to make her feel better. Having an abortion is traumatizing already — try adding some bitch you thought was your friend screaming in your face about it, calling you a murderer. The violence I’d want to commit. Her friend is stronger than me for holding back.
Man I try to be sympathetic to that shit but my mom and dad never told me anything about abortion and as a man I made my own decisions to believe it’s a woman’s choice whatever she feels she needs to do. And the idea that a woman can’t be sympathetic to other women in that situation, until it actually affects her, is pretty reprehensible. These abortion conversations keep popping up around me lately so I got a lot to say but I don’t wanna come off like an asshole, I get what you mean it’s just frustrating that people wanna control others choices at all.
The thing is a lot the nuanced conversations from a layman's perspective doesn't come from a blank slate. You were able to come to your own conclusions based on being a man from a family where abortion wasn't a deeply disgusting and shameful topic. Which isn't wrong, live your life fam. But when everyone around you, everyone you care about, tells you that they're blending fetuses with chopsticks, that the only people who get abortions are bad and careless people, that "how you would you feel if YOU were aborted", that conception is the majesty of God's blessing upon you and rejecting that is the most vile thing a sinner can do, etc - it is very hard to make objective choices about abortion free from biases, especially at a developmental stage Obviously OP is in the wrong and should have come to this realization much earlier than when it became a personal one. But ignoring the source of the trash takes and attacking the problem leads to just shouting matches from Echo chambers instead of any actual discourse
This is precisely the reason my kids don't know my family. I have very strong opinions about religion and Christianity in particular, but my kids have never heard a word about it from me. Every time they bring up the question of God or Jesus, I refer them to their mother or my in-laws. I'm not the person they need to learn from on these topics. I have given them basic information as to how different religions operate, but I won't discuss my beliefs with them until they're older. (Currently 9 & 7) I want them to decide for themselves when they're old enough. Force feeding scripture to children is tantamount to brainwashing IMO. I see religion in the same light as Santa Claus. It's a cute story about a guy a long time ago that did some nice things. Then it got monetized and politicized. One day my kids will find out Santa isn't real. But it won't be because of me. When they want to dive into my mindset on belief systems, they'll find a similar result. But as for now, I want them to think for themselves.
I think this is the big question, a lot of people become 'bad' after having a bad life or adults teaching them as kids to be bad and while why they became this way is understandable, it doesn't make what they did any less bad. I wonder where is the line drawn? When are you a good person that done bad things due to your past and when are you a bad person that has done bad things and your past doesn't really matter because you're a bad person?
It’s especially frustrating when men are the ones shaming women. Bro. You don’t have a womb. Fuck off to the other end of the earth please. That is truly vile behaviour.
I used to tell the men to go home, take their poor kids whom they dragged to the clinic with them, make the kids some pancakes, and let them watch Saturday cartoons. Little kids are way too young to be dragged into the subject of abortion. I couldn't imagine a little kid having to deal with that. Horrifying.
Because it's easy to shame someone, knowing that the person doing the shaming will actually never have to be that position. Yeah they could get a wife/gf pregnant and that woman could get an abortion, but to that man that would still be something she did and not him.
The situation would be a lot more simple if it wasn't drilled into her head since a young age. The thing about religion and especially being raised in religion is that your whole life is centered around it and you're taught that if you don't believe in it and don't do what you're taught is right you're going to be punished for the rest of eternity. It's extremely difficult to change from that notion and it's really upsetting but in situations like this it takes actually having to go through it to change your mind but I'm glad she did. It's not her fault she was raised like that and pushed into those beliefs from birth.
What if your state had stopped you? Seems pretty lucky. I sincerely hope you are open with your pro choice stance and not just on the internet.
Yeah I don't feel bad. The fact you did that to other women and are only now regretting it because YOU FINALLY are walking in their shoes. Have fun.
For real. I also can’t believe that this conservative Christian woman had the AUDACITY to shame other women for their pregnancy and abortions and she’s out here having reckless, pre-marital sex. I see no husband mentioned. I’m sure her choice would have been different if she had a husband to rely on. But no. She’s out here sinning and she has the gall to scream at other people for THEIR supposed sins. Disgusting
>About 6 months ago I got a positive test. >Didn’t tell my bf Why are you having sex out of wedlock? If you are against abortions, I'd assume you would be against pre-marital sex as well.
Keeping that relationship strong keeping secrets from her boyfriend.. I see this working out well. This is called lying by omission. 9th commandment, don’t deceit your neighbor. Hypocrite all over the place. This is why the church is hated.
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You making a throwaway account is like making this proclamation at an empty hallway.
You were willing to follow Christianity’s rules on abortion so harshly that you likely traumatized a friend at 16; but you are lax in following Christianity’s rules on not having sex before marriage? Who said you get to pick and choose? Real hypocrite vibes coming from this post.
Also what ever happened to Love thy neighbor?
Jesus literally said it was one of the 2 most important commandments out of all the commandments
This is the comment I was after. Makes me question what exactly was her upbringing where she picks one to condemn and the other not too. Like as a Christian it would of made more sense to condemn both, treat both as terrible. Choosing to condemn abortion but be fine with premarital sex? Come on…
Republican Christian. Driven by politics mostly.
As much as it looks like a feel good story, you only changed when you were put in the siuation, so you changed because of your own need, not because you were empathic toward other women. Sorry but I don't really feel like giving you congrats Edit : the hate ? We're not patting you in the back, but we're certainly not spewing hate. You spent years shaming other women (your ex bestfriend included, well bestfriend might not be the good term, seeing how you threw her in the trash), insulting and harassing them, you pressured poor young women into having a baby they could not afford. That's fucking hate, you see ? What have you done to mend up all the wrong you're doing ? The hypocrisy and lack of self awareness, my god
I hope she really did change her mind, but it reminded me too much of the opinion piece "The only morally right abortion is my abortion", where this doctor, IIRC, said that she's had christian women yell and curse her as a killer and a murderer AS she was performing the abortion. So many of them, she said, were suddenly OK with abortion when it happened to them or to their kids, citing things like "they need to finish the school" or "this will wreck their life" or something like it... only to pretty much go back to picketing against those other women, who also needed the abortions, but for whom it obviously was not OK that perhaps their lives would be affected too.
If I was that doctor I would stop the procedure and tell her to leave.
They legally can't.
Is telling the medical staff they’re going to hell not evidence that the patient has withdrawn her consent for the procedure?
Why? Genuinely asking, if she's disrupting the procedure can't the doctor call security?
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Exactly, because convenience is all that matters to her. And in OPs head it'll all be the fault the mean godless liberals. If they had just respected her change of heart they'd have a new ally, but they had to be all "hateful". That poor HS friend.
Exactly. She hid it not because she knew it was her right, but because she didn't want the other pro-lifers around her to know. She can keep up the facade of her old life, continue bashing people, and still feel fine about what she did. What an awful, shameful person.
it doesn't look like a feel good story to me
It kinda feel with the whole redemptuon arc, but it's kind of a selfish redemption
Lol she'll probably pretend to be pro life in front of her family forever too. Just internally having different opinions about such topics does nothing. I will never have sympathy for such people. This is why pro choice people were right when they said it's easy to defend the unborn until the responsibility falls on you. If pro lifers actually cared about these children they'd also be heavily in support of adoption and would try to aid those children instead of funding money into all other nonsense. They like the moral superiority of this ideology, not the responsibilities.
Empathy seems to be lost on a lot of conservative religious people.
I forget which one, but a Republican congressman was openly against same sex marriage then his son came out as gay. He changed his mind because he thought his son should have the opportunity to marry who he loves. When it was other peoples sons and daughters he didn’t care because “god said no” or some bullshit. They’re awful people.
Rob Portman
Right? How ironic for a group of people who follow a man who died for our sins, loves all his children, only he can judge etc etc... like clearly not only he can judge since people like this will literally berate somebody else for a choice they make in the future.
I agree with you! I understand that growing up in this culture can lead you to protesting yourself. But promising resources without knowing what they are, is naive and negligent. Especially when this happened to your best friend and you should have wanted these “resources” for her instead of quoting the bible if a tiny cell is so important. This should have been your “growing up” and empathy moment. This girl was your best friend and she knew about your protesting. She trusted you knowing your prejudices and you should have given her and you the opportunity to grow. I’m glad you did what was best for you. No one should tell a stranger what they should do without all the information. I also find it a little negligent that with all your years of experience that you got pregnant. I assume that you met a lot of these woman so I don’t understand how their pain would not have an impact on you and how you live your life. I think that you felt so much better than them and dismissed everything because your belief made you better. I’m happy you’re a more rounded person now, and I’m so sorry about the abortion. It must be one of the hardest things to do even when the why is so logical. And I’m sorry that my response isn’t very “yeah good for changing you mind”, but to truly make up for how you treated so many before, this isn’t it and having an abortion doesn’t wipe the slate clean. I’m just sorry for OP and everyone mentioned in this post
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Agree...wouldn't that be the "Christian" way to face this..bet she lies about it for the rest of her family's lives. (I was raised 7th day adventist- religion crammed down my throat till I was 15 ,went to church school for 10 years...I haven't looked back)
Bet her mom had one too.
People like you are the reason there’s not a chance I would ever go to church again. You bashed and shit on people for years then when you found yourself in their situation it was suddenly completely fine. That’s not how this works, you stood there telling people that fetuses are living things, except when it was yours. I genuinely hope you go and apologize to everyone you ever hurt over this topic and work hard to become better. Before you twist it in your mind as some kind of spiritual attack and make it all Christ like to fit your narrative. Sky daddy had no part in this, you choose to have unprotected sex and you choose what to do with the consequences of it.
I was forced to go to an ultra strict church about 3 times a week for most of my childhood. I grew up being resentful towards anything religion related. I like to think as people grow up, their moral compasses should always be to be kind to people, do the right things, etc etc. And a lot of the shit Christians like to preach and guilt people with are things Jesus would have handled very differently. Dude was hanging out with a known Prostitute ffs. WWJD indeed.
These religious nutters are trying to take over our country. They want to turn America into The Handmaid's Tale. Their culture of cruelty is getting worse by the second. I was born in the early 60's. Women couldn't get birth control, have abortions, have credit in their own names, marital rape was legal, and no community property laws, which meant that women got nothing if they divorced their abusive husbands. Us girls weren't even allowed to wear pants to school. Gay people were abused and tortured to the point where they committed suicide before they'd let anyone know they were gay. Parents were expected to beat their children with that "spare the rod, spoil the child" bullshit. The only people who had rights were white, straight, Christian men. I can't go back to that. Our country can't go back to that. Jesus would despise those people almost as much as I do.
Sad part is, they seem to be succeeding. Oklahoma just made it a felony punishable by ten years in prison for the abortion provider..Idaho also made it illegal, similar to texas, even a rapists family member or any member of either family can now sue.....meanwhile Tennessee is going full tilt on child marriage laws. They are dragging us all back with them to the Stone Age, working equally hard to suppress future voting with various restrictions and installing puppets who WILL help overturn future elections.
Thank God Colorado and several other states are making laws to provide women the right to choose.
This is so terrifying bc it’s true. My mom said she remembers the horrors of segregation.
Yeah, I can't go back to it either. I was born in a town in LA called Inglewood, and back then, realtors were forbidden to sell or rent homes to black people and a few miles away in El Segundo, there was an ordinance sign that said all black people were to be inside by sundown. That's where we're headed again and it's hard to get my head around.
I’m from Venice Beach. I had no idea about this history of Inglewood and El Segundo. Thats nuts bc just a few decades later in my lifetime it’s predominantly people of color in Inglewood. El Segundo is mostly industrial.
Yeah well they can eat a bag of floppy wet dicks. We're not defeated yet.
Same, I grew up in a super religious household and found myself "rebelling" against my parents with my views on sex before marriage (though I carried so much guilt about that), LGBTQ+ rights and reproductive freedom. I was just following Jesus' lead; what the fuck did I know.
👏
God has mercy, I don't
Machete?
That's the one
God doesn't exist, you do.
Totally agree with everything in this comment except for the apologize to everyone bit. I feel like apologies should generally be reserved for the people that are actively in our life, otherwise they are not genuine. For example, to go out of one's way and reach out to apologize to someone they haven't seen in years is more focused on soothing the apologizer's guilt or cognitive dissonance than the harm done to the other person. Apologies are a form of communication intended to repair relationships but if there's no relationship to repair, most times the apology just brings back the other person's painful emotions thus doing my harm than good. Additionally, the verbiage OP uses very much indicates they only feel regret for the situation rather than remorse for their own actions. This post is full of shifting blame onto their upbringing and religion as opposed to acknowledging any harm they may have caused and taking personal responsibility for their actions. The fact that OP hasn't faced any external consequences such as informing their mother or boyfriend of their abortion and dealing with the inevitable is a testament to their attempts at compartmentalization. This is a normal first step in the progression of self-change and it's okay they're only at this point. It becomes problematic if one remains stuck in this mindset instead of continuing to work on themselves and address the deeper issues at play. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on and religion is often a deep rooted part of someone's community and literal sense of self so this is going to be a tough journey. We can only hope OP takes the appropriate steps to work on themselves and become a better member of their community than they were before.
So, you were a Christian. You went against how you were raised, and had premarital sex without a condom I’m assuming. Got pregnant. Still did not inform the baby’s father. Had an abortion. Now your “values” have conveniently changed and abortion is cool now cause you did it? If you had values you’d have been nicer to your friend, have avoided pregnancy, you’d tell the father the truth which he deserves. All I hear is “I” “I” and “I”. Straight selfishness.
This is giving me real Meghan McCain “The View” vibes when she came back from maternal leave and ONLY after facing PPD, started advocating for maternal leave and how it’s important that every mother have access to it regardless of socioeconomic status. Like that great fam but it took you really going through post partum depression to be like maybe all women should be able to stay home and take care of their kids and not worry about not having to work right after having a baby. Like great your advocating for it now but I kind of expect most people to have the sense to be able to see someone’s perspective without having to experience it first. Like should we make all these politicians lower and middle class so they can actually care about the problems most of this country deals with instead of fucking posturing with blind faith saying the shit equivalent to us like “there are resource’s”
this reminds me of when sarah palin was preaching no sex before marriage then her daughter got knocked up at 17. LMAO
And then again a few years later while doing a tour against premarital sex lmao
Or dick Cheney being against gay marriage until his daughter came out
Plus 'there are resources' doesn't cover a lot of situations. Rape pregnancy is horrible and traumatic even if you adopt the kid out. Child pregnancy is a thing be it from a pedophile or a child with another child. Even with resorces Im sorry but a kid should not be having a baby themselves. There are women in abusive situations. Yes you can help get them out but abuse isn't black and white and it can fuck with you mentally and a baby and child shouldn't be thrown into the mix of any of that. And soooo much more. 'Resorces' are something that can help in SOME cases but honestly isn't the answer for every situation a abortion may be wanted or needed in. Pregnancy can ruin our bodies in ways we can't just bounce back from both mentally and physically and again there is just so much more that goes into being pro-choice/ pro-life that many pro-lifers just don't think about or even care about.
It’s great that you realized you were wrong, but it’s deeply concerning that it took you actually being forced to live the nightmare for yourself in order to actually start caring. Next time, try and put yourself in other people’s shoes and feel some empathy for their situation. Just because it’s not currently affecting you personally doesn’t mean it isn’t greatly impacting the lives of many others who are living breathing people just like you.
Pro-lifers are always pro-life until they need an abortion themselves. It makes me sick.
"But like... my reasons are TOTALLY different. I have a new job and no money. All the others just do it because they're evil sex sinners!"
You forgot,”other women use abortion as a form of birth control”.
What you can do is organize and vote accordingly, help to stop the rise of the politicians trying to ban your free choice in the matter. That is what you can do for so many others. go to counterprotests. Apologize to your friend
You are a..... Hypocrite as fuck
It makes me sad that people have to directly experience something to empathise with others, and sometimes not even then. The only moral abortion is my abortion : https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ It’s good that you’ve changed OP and it takes strength to admit that you were wrong but I still can’t help but hold anger towards you and people like you.
This is the christian conservative way!
Well well well if it isn't the action of my own consequences
Typical "idgaf about this thing until it directly affects me"
Honest question. How did you figure pre-marital sex was okay, but abortion is not? Both are wrong in the eyes of Christianity. You say you struggle with your faith now, but if not for this pregnancy scare you would still be having pre-marital sex. This is a genuine question that has always confused be with religious folk, and I've seen far to many examples of similar situations that cause people to question their faith.
I'm glad you're not all "the only moral abortion is my abortion." will you advocate now for the women whose right to choose, the choice you got to make despite your upbringing and moral convictions, is being curtailed? I really hope so, even if you do it quietly. I hope that this revelation leads to many more because restricted access to abortion is only one part of the huge problem we have in this country.
Hypocritical Christian? I didn't know those exist 😆
My mom’s best friend in high school got pregnant when she was 16 or 17. Her bf (who would then go on to be her husband and eventually ex husband) was very adamant that he didn’t want kids. She was terrified, didn’t really have anyone to turn to for help. My mom’s younger sister (they were NOT religiously raised mind you) spouted so much pro life nonsense at her. How horrible she was for considering abortion, blah blah blah. My mom’s friend eventually had to go to one of those sketchier clinics to get it done, because they were all poor and she had no help. She’s infertile now because of the procedure and has struggled for years because of it. My mom’s sister continued to tell her she was awful for getting the procedure done. People like you disgust me. You won’t get any brownie points with me for realizing the error of your ways. Whether you agreed with what they were doing or not, you absolutely shit on women going through the worst and hardest moments of their lives. The things you did and said will stick with them their entire lives.
Nothing about her behavior represented God’s true love. Religious people have it all wrong.
I don’t feel an ounce of pity for you.
You are what is called a hypocrite.
You’re coming here looking to be patted on the back. This is karma and you are an asshole. Sit in the bed you made, no one is proud of you.
You can’t take back what you’ve said and done, but what you can do is reach out to the friend you shamed when you were 16. Baby steps to redemption.
Not for them, but ok for me. And you only realized this when you needed the service. Wow. It's funny how the most religious people are often the most selfish and narcissistic while lacking any shred of empathy.
I bet you’re only secretly pro-choice, right? If asked you would still spout pro-life rhetoric, right? How would you vote? Would you publicly support a woman who needed an abortion? It is good that your paradigm was challenged, but what does that mean? You’re only okay with abortion in secret and when it benefits you?
Now tell your mom and BF about your new found belief
it didn’t ever once occur to you that those women you screamed at probably had jobs and lives they cared about? or didn’t have enough money? it’s not like you couldn’t mentally put that together, you just didn’t care.
They don't worry about those things.. God will provides. That's how they wash their hands of all the life's they helped save... God got their back unto the next. They have all that magical thinking- It's all God's will anyway. Lol
Awww but what happened to “adoption exists” and “there are programs to help you, don’t choose abortion! There’s always other options!”
I’m so glad you were able to quietly and discreetly get an abortion. This is something women in states such as texas and Oklahoma can’t do because of people like you. It is not enough to say you’ve changed but you need to actively participate in this change to mitigate the damage you’ve done, personally, to women in need. I’m sorry but no one feels sorry for people who’s whole outlook is “the only moral abortion is my own”. Find peace.
Boyfriend? You mean husband, right? I'm not sure if you're aware but the Bible has some rules on sex and babies.
Of course… pro life until it happens to you… you don’t get my sympathy.
you didnt get the full experience. please go tell your parent(s) and you boyfriend.
Christians am I right?
Also this is why I can’t stand religion. People cherry pick the aspects they want to follow. But somehow you didn’t follow the “sex before marriage” “rule”
The hate does not bother you? That's your problem, the things people are saying are astute observations of your hypocrisy. If it didn't bother you maybe you haven't learned anything. Maybe it should bother you.
The fact that you were having premarital sex tells all. Christians only pick and choose to follow what the Bible says. And the Bible also doesn’t say anything about abortion being bad either.
You’re an asshole fr
Calling it hate suggests you haven't learned a damn thing.
Fuck you?
Edit: FUCK YOU!!!
How did you end up pregnant?
Probably pre marital sex!! 👹🔥🔥🔥
Hehehe this made me chuckle because you realise that she picked which sin to commit. Hehe
The Holy Spirit of course
I’m glad you have grown through the process and am sorry for the situations you’ve been put in But I also feel like showing empathy and understanding for others only when you’ve been in their situation as well is short sighted/immature behavior and hopefully you’ve grown more generally in that way as well Sincerely best wishes to you
The post makes me think she hasnt told her family still and doesnt plan on it. This is not really positive growth.
Yep big time. She will hide this from everybody and may never go to another anti-abortion protest but if she isn’t brave enough to tell the people she loves, she isn’t really *doing* anything. She isn’t going to rock her church and demand they actually do provide resources to women or demand they stop protesting. I doubt she will leave the church at all. She isn’t gonna join NARAL or become active in protecting this right for other women. If she does, then I sincerely apologize for my cynicism. But to me, this changes nothing.
You’re still pro-life just weak. You didn’t think you’d get in that situation and when you did you caved. Now you want sympathy points to make you feel better and you’re not getting any. L
I feel like this happens far more often than people are willing to admit.
Well… remember this and perhaps make sure to tell people what you went through. For some it may not matter, but maybe you can help others understand the why.
"found myself", lol.
This is what is most commonly referred to as a self-karma. Your religious background taught you too judge and condemn others and you only learned compassion when you became one of those who were judged and condemned by your church. Probably the best thing you can do is stop judging yourself and examine the hypocrisy of what you were taught in your church. Even though the Bible is about loving everyone and that's what Jesus taught, in practice I found most religious people are about judgment and condemnation of others which makes them the total hypocrites.
I hope you appologised to your ex friend
Oh look another conservative who changed their mind when it happened to them. Is the lack of empathy until it happens to you a feature? It's annoying to see this over and over again, day after day, year after year.
Well, at least you opened your eyes (better late than never), but now you really should go and apologize to those you shamed, especially your friend. It may not be well received, but I think it's the right thing to do.
I still think that folks who protest outside abortion clinics are utter assholes. It's not their freaking body, why do they presume they should voice their opinion about what a person does with their own body?!
You had sex.... and you're not married... you will burn in hell! Nah joking aside how does that work though, I see alot of religious people going all zealous about certain stuff like anti abortion I your case and recite bible/quoran verses etc yet they look through the fingers on other stuff that those mythical books are against with no fear of hell/gehenna. F ex having premarital sex or committing adultery etc. I mean if you actually read the Bible there are alot of things commonly done that is sinfull but never emphasized by preachers like eating shellfish and mixing certain textiles. If you strongly believe the book on one thing that you are willing to shame and protest to get your view accross and believe in God and that the book is his word, how do you justify the other thing that goes against it?
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Most people against abortions have had abortions themselves. The mantra has always been "all abortions are immoral except mine." Glad you stopped drinking the pink coolade.
It’s awful that you actively tried to restrict other women’s access to safe abortions but as soon as you needed one, it’s okay because you’re “moral” and “careful” in your eyes, so you “deserve” to make that choice. I’m sorry you grew up in such an ignorant household, but as soon as you became an adult you were old enough to realize the error of your ways. I left the church because I couldn’t deal with this cruelty and hypocritical behavior. Edit to add: It is a good thing when people realize the error of their ways, but you should be able to have empathy for others without experiencing something yourself. If we curb the mindset that something is only important or an issue once it happens to us, then the world will be a better place to live.
Everyone has their own reasons which is why it needs to be a choice.