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NTA
I rather hastily married a guy which was more of a rebound thing for me. And he was almost 10 years older and had been a member of the military and was involved in desert storm. Obviously, this was a long time ago. But I still remember how it felt for him to question whether I had been a past or present heroin user because I liked my ice tea to be sweet. Which in his experience that was something that drug users did. And when he randomly showed up at my apartment real early one morning and I saw that it was him, I yelled hold on and I ran to unwrapped the saran wrap from my legs and arms. This was something I did to help my psoriasis. But he thought I was trying to get rid of my lover. I just looked at him in shock and was like noooo, I just needed to put on something more presentable.
Then I married him and he wouldn’t even let me visit my sister and brother-in-law without him even though he’s allergic to cats. Which means he forced me to leave after 20 minutes because he was miserable. He did get real scary a couple of times and knocked my purse off of a table at my apartment. And I told him that if he put a hand on me and hurt me, not only was I gonna call the cops and tell his father. He broke down crying& I made him call his dad and admit to what he had done to me.
There was a couple of more instances and I had enough. I HAD to leave him. He was too broken by his past two relationships that cheated on him & had abortions. And I just couldn’t be his emotional support when he was punishing me due to HIS insecurities.
And dear OP? Only YOU can decide when you’ve had enough and whether this last time or the next will be the final, “I give up. I can’t take it anymore” moment will be for you to decide YOUR mental health and wellbeing is more important than trying to reassure your insecure husband yet again.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is helpful. I feel guilty for leaving him for his insecurities, but that's something I will have to work through.
You’re not leaving him because he is insecure. You are leaving because he is punishing you with his insecurities since he can’t actually punish those that hurt him in the past. Think about that. Everytime he accuses you, he fully believes that he is right despite the evidence. And after a day or two HE gets over it and expects you to as well. THEN an innocent interaction with a male grocery clerk where you smiled & thanked him, turns into YOU flirting and being too friendly.
Every day there is potential for your husband to have a meltdown where YOU once again, are expected to be patient with him. And your resentment will continue to grow.
I don’t think you deserve a life like that.
Especially when he is doing nothing to help curb his behaviours anymore. Improving a little isn’t good enough, he is still treating you horribly for what someone else did. You shouldn’t have to be continually punished for the actions of other people.
I would stop trying to justify yourself and indulging his paranoia. If he accuses you again say “no”’, if he presses for proof, say “the past 4 years of loyalty should be more than enough”. From then on just keep shutting him down, say no, don’t elaborate. Tell your couples therapist that this is going to be your response from now on and that you have had enough.
I also think it may be time for an ultimatum. Either he has made an appointment with an individual therapist by this time next week, or you want a separation with intention to divorce. He doesn’t have to have the appointment by then, it can be hard to get an appointment on short notice, as I’m sure you know, but you want evidence of an appointment confirmation. If not, he can start packing. And follow through with it.
NTA, obviously.
Good luck OP, this is a sucky situation to be in. Just keep reminding yourself that your feelings are justified, but after 4 years, his are not. Stay strong.
Yeah, you aren't leaving him for his insecurities, you will be leaving him for his refusal to seriously manage those insecurities. Those are two totally different things.
If this happened occasionally and he apologized and was improving at a reasonable rate that's one thing but after years he is in position to know that strongly accusing you is the wrong tactic. Counseling is there to provide alternative ways for him to handle those feelings.
It doesn't sound like he used any of those techniques and still blamed you. Then instead of escalating he shut down. But he did escalate! Maybe not as bad as in the past but fuck.
The sad thing is that it seems he doesn't recognise the truly self-defeating nature of his behaviour. By regularly accusing OP of infidelity, he is pushing her away and thereby encouraging her to leave him...just the outcome he feared.
It looks as if therapy isn't really going to help him as he doesn't really want to change.
It's not as though you haven't tried. You are in couples therapy after all.
Is he seeking individual therapy? If not he definitely needs it. I would recommend that you get individual therapy as well. A therapist would be helpful with resetting your boundaries and sense of self-worth. You may not feel like you need to do this, but if you are feeling "guilty for leaving him for his insecurities" then you may need this. Because it is not his insecurities that are ruining your relationship, it is him not respecting you or trusting you to the point that he is causing you harm.
My husband's college girlfriend was a cheater who accused him of cheating often. This was one part of their toxic relationship. It had an effect on him, and we had to work through things he would do as a preemptive action to show he was not cheating that were trained into him by his ex because they triggered my insecurities. For example, he would tell me every time a woman he was not related to contacted him. This made me feel like he was showing off and inferring that I am replicable because I have issues around abandonment and men "trading up". We had one talk where he explained why he was doing that behavior, I explained why what he was doing was negatively triggering me with it, and he stopped the behavior. He is also in the military and we are a part for long periods of time. Yet he has never once accused me of cheating. You have been together for years and presumably live together at this point. He is not going to get better because he has been shown that there are no consequences for his actions. He will only stay the same or get worse.
He won’t attempt to work through his insecurities and heal himself - which is the only way he can actually heal - as long as he has you there to be his comfort girlfriend and to blame for everything wrong in his life. He may still choose not to heal when single but he won’t choose to heal with you because he doesn’t have to. This works for him and he doesn’t care that it doesn’t work for you.
Self-Preservation is a natural thing. Your mind and your body we're telling you to not be in that situation. You need to realize, you did nothing wrong. Just like Al-Anon deals with family members of alcoholics, there are support groups for people recovering from abusive relationships. If you're feelings are strong enough that you need help, don't be afraid. There are other people carrying guilt , shame and trauma that is not their own. Sometimes sharing experiences with others helps you realize this. Hopefully this helps.
Today I learned that Southern tea is really heroin recovery tea! I prefer mine usweetened. 🥤
That aside, I'm a veteran with PTSD trauma prior to the military, and exacerbated by the military experience. It sounds to me like there's a lot going on with him, he needs to work on himself. If you can't be comfortable and secure with yourself, you only bring those insecurities and trauma into a relationship. I've seen this cycle many times with my mom. The stigma of mental health hits hard in this country. If you break your leg, you seek medical assistance, you don't walk it off. It's very hard to come to terms with the fact that we can't do this on your own. Feelings of hurt and betrayal tend to stagnate and become anger. You have no idea where this anger is originating from, and it sounds like he needs to find out before he hurts himself, or others. I'm glad you gave him an ultimatum, sometimes a wake up call is necessary. I applaud you for looking out for yourself, we are responsible for ourselves. Our own mental and physical well-being is key to any functioning relationship. Whether it be with others, or our own selves. I'm not saying we're all the same, with each person deals with their pain differently, Even in therapy. But knowing when to ask for help is as important as anything else in life. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes, and evolve into a better person. A genuine secure person that he is comfortable with, and others will be comfortable around. I hope his emotional scars didn't pass on to you, That's the worst part of trauma.
You've given it a really solid try, OP. He clearly is not mentally or emotionally healthy enough to be in a committed relationsip. If he was willing to really deal with it maybe you'd feel different.
I think it's ok to move on.
When he accuses your boobs of tasting like a tobacco product, it’s time to pack it up. Honestly, the phone record pulling would have been it for me. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
Yep I'd understand if the accusation was off the back of a particular situation that made him worried (overnight stay with coworker or randomly not coming home etc) but the whole tobacco boob thing is just insane.
It's probably lotion! And wow, this guy makes me think of my ex. Once he said that as I was looking out thr window, that some random guy walking by was going to meet me later. We had just moved to the state and knew NO ONE. Later when he took me to a new job, he said all the men were looking at me. Well, I am a stranger who just walked in the room.... Delusions dont need facts. Fears look for expression.
That said, - OP is TAH.
She married the guy in full knowledge of his situation (clearly he can't control it or hide it from her).
OP probably came in with the delusion "I can fix him!" and when that turned out to not be the case now she wants out of her commitment.
The whole situation is her fault - and she's gonna put the poor guy through more unnecessary trauma.
Also wtf is marriage and your vows to you? just a half hearted joke?
Marriage is supposed to be "I choose you as my life partner, for better or worse, forever."
This mentality that you can just go back like you didn't declare your life long commitment to something is destroying marriage and relationships between people.
It's no wonder everyone is staying single.
OP is Immature, has unrealistic expectations, and doesn't take her commitments seriously.
100% TAH.
Four years of support and only a 5% improvement from him....but she doesn't take her commitments seriously? 4 years going onto 5 of her life of supporting him, dealing with yelling matches, accusations, crying, empty beds, therapy, him not taking his therapy seriously...and she doesn't take her commitments seriously?
Marriage is supposed to be a life long commitment - so yeah.
If the guy ain't marriage material, Don't marry him! (mind blowing)
Otherwise - stick to your commitments.
It can just as likely be a very healthy mindset of a person who takes responsibility (theirs included) seriously.
You'd want to be able to rely on your partner that when they agree to marry you, you're gonna stick by their word right? The alternative is never being able to let yourself be safe in your marriage out of fear they might change their mind and divorce your ass over any inconvenience or downturn in life.
I.e. you get sick and can't work for an undetermined amount of time while you deal with the condition/illness.
If marriage is just a casual commitment you'll live in fear every day your partner might leave you out of convenience. - and you should never feel that way in such a relationship.
Stop blaming the victim. Marriage ain't a one way street, if OP’s husband wants to treat them like a cheater and refuse to do better then their isn't any reason OP shouldn't be able to leave him without being made to feel bad about it.
Relationships aren't one persons responsibility, one person can't be relied on to constantly work for it whilst the other does nothing but blame and accuse the other of being unfaithful for legitimately no reason other then “a completely different person cheated on me at some point” it's nothing but work for the other person to tiptoe and baby someone that absolutely refuses to let go of the wrongs some totally different person committed.
I 100% agree, - "Marriage ain't a one way street", "Relationships aren't one persons responsibility".
That said, If OP doesn't like the terms and conditions of her partnership.. why did she sign the contract? :)
How is she a victim if she was fully aware of the terms and conditions going in?..
It's not like they got married and he suddenly pulled a switch-a-roo on her.
Where's her accountability and responsibility in all of this??
Don't compare an illness/physical health condition with OPs husband making absolutely shit progress out of 4 years bc he got cheated on, lol. If he couldn't move on from cheating, he also shouldn't have dated nor married. 4 years is a lot of time for shit progress.
I feel the same way towards if a women was like OPs husband, just to state.
I also saw the other comment you made, that you want to talk about OPs accountability and responsibility. Where's her husband's accountability and responsibility?
Has she not done her part and more in the past 4 going on 5 years? He also has a responsibility and accountability involving their marriage, and he is failing those conditions miserably at this point.
Are you also the type of person to feel the same way with divorce when someones significant other is abusive? If the answer is NO, I'm guessing you don't count the constant mental abuse OPs husband puts her through by arguing and yelling at her, in her face, accusing her over and over and over again about cheating and making her life a living hell as a type of abuse. Which it is... because it's affecting her mental health a lot at this point she's breaking down. And God damn, she was around for a while before she hit this point.
You want to criticize her for her accountability and responsibility but 4 going on 5 long ass years to work with him and help him grow while showing zero proof nor signs of infidelity seems to be one hell of a responsibility and accountability. The only thing to show is him dropping the accusation just to bring it up again in therapy; just to start another argument based on his mental mindset...and the cycle continues. This isn't the time of our grandparents buddy, women and men don't need to suffer in a relationship for years anymore in silence all because of a vow.
You're acting like op was just with him for a year or a few months. It's been four-five years. Of the same shit. Of the same constant mental abuse. Of the same repetitive arguments. OPs husband doesn't WANT to get better. So why should she now suffer for the rest of her life? Because she tried her best to uphold some vow words? Put her mental health over his for 4 years? Deal with this constant verbal abuse??? Please, lol.
Nah as an adult you’re fully responsible for your emotions and dealing with your trauma. You don’t get to place the responsibility onto someone else. It won’t matter what partner he is with, if he does not take ownership of his actions and how they’re negatively impacting his partner he will continue to have dysfunctional relationships. No one should ever be “out of control” of their actions. Otherwise.. don’t date.
I 100% Agree OP should take full responsibility for making the choice to marry the nutter.
Marriage is supposed to be one of if not THE biggest decisions you make in life.
Who you decide to spend your life with is a MASSIVE deal that will effect all aspects of your life.
So you better make a good choice.
OP did not.. and that's on her. - and she will forever be TAH for her arrogance and hubris that she could take a broken man and fix him.
And now the poor guy will be subjected to greater trauma of his wife leaving him instead of a simple rejection at the start.
I’m so sorry. You’re NTAH at all.
I would definitely be fed up and probably couldn’t be with someone like that unfortunately, especially if he’s not going back to therapy. I hope you brought up your feelings in couples therapy and that he goes back to therapy soon
A few months ago his instagram explorer page was full of busty insta models. I confronted him and he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said he was just looking at pictures and profiles. He said he didn't interact with anyone, idk.
His explore page still has occasional lustful women. He also searched for someone who I think is a pornstar and then when I looked a few days later, his search history was cleared. So he might be. IDK
ya sadly the most probable reason for his behavior is he’s actually the cheater & is projecting that onto u to make himself feel better & ultimately distract u hoping u never suspect it of him. this is 100% emotional abuse & borderline sociopathic. my first boyfriend did the same thing to me & said it was because his mom cheated on his dad…then i found his 2nd MySpace page listed as single w/ comments from his friend’s sister’s best friend among other girls. so whether he was really cheated on or not by his ex he’s just using that as an excuse. i don’t know u, but i know no one deserves to be treated like this or have their precious time wasted like this. girl, u basically already caught him deleting evidence…very few other legit reasons for clearing his history. if by chance u live in SoCal i would help find u the proof ur looking for, but regardless the person that’s meant for u wouldn’t put u through any of this.
Yep, I suspected it too. He’s projecting his behavior onto her. OP, just go. You don’t need to prove anything. You deserve peace. Let him have his nonsense all to himself. He doesn’t deserve your empathy or investment any longer.
If you REALLY want to catch him, buy a used iPad on Facebook and sign into his icloud on it. All his texts and calls will come up in the iPad. If you get an earlier model it doesn't have the update where deleted texts from the phone delete from the iPad. I think 3rd gen and earlier won't take the update so any texts or calls he deletes will still be in the iPad. GPS tracker on his car. No advice for android users as far as the phone, though.
Is there any chance he’s the one cheating? This sounds a lot like he doth protest too much and could be trying to DARVO you. (Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim Offender.)
And quite frankly, if he’s so convinced you cheated, why is he not the one leaving?
I think you have every right to protect your sanity and peace and leave.
Give him the choice of IC or separation. Be firm and don't back down. You can't live like this and it won't get better if he doesn't get help.
Look into his eyes and assure him that you love him with all your heart and he has nothing to worry about, but you can't go on like this. Maybe he will wake up finally and trust you without fear.
A few months ago his instagram explorer page was full of busty insta models. I confronted him and he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said he was just looking at pictures and profiles. He said he didn't interact with anyone, idk.
His explore page still has occasional lustful women. He also searched for someone who I think is a pornstar and then when I looked a few days later, his search history was cleared. So he might be. IDK
Pulling phone records too? Soo why did you marry this guy? He sounds like a person who’s doing terrible things and accusing you of doing those things. If couples therapy AND individual therapy can’t help him then I think it’s time you put yourself first. There are a lot of men out there that won’t accuse you of cheating every single day of your life. You’re still young but seriously start loving yourself. Imagine if you had a daughter and she was with a man who accused her of cheating but hits up insta models being thirsty af.
Nta I think you should bring up the possibility of ending your marriage at the next counseling session. That way you have a therapist to meditate when he inevitably accuses you of leaving him for another partner instead of this being the consequences of HIS actions.
I really hope OP sees your comment. It would also be best to have someone else present as he will more than likely lose his shit at this self-fulfilling prophecy which OP should not be feeling any blame for at all.
This guy is not mentally well enough to be in a relationship, let alone a marriage. Maybe not ever, if he’s not willing to go therapy and get help for his issues. You should have left a long time ago.
I am sorry but that is not ok to deal with anymore. I think you need to looks at what money you make, what money he makes and start figuring out how you can start to separate. If you can afford to be on your own, you need to do that. You can tell him that you have been more than patient, more than kind, more than understanding and your done dealing with the aftermath of his last relationship. your don't being accused of cheating, and your done not living life worried he will accuse you of cheating. Its time to end this relationship and move on. You will spend the rest of your life dealing with this .
NTA, but Why get married if he has trust issues and can’t trust you? You are both really young and I honestly have no idea why two people would rush to get married in a situation like this?!?
Reading the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft would be beneficial for you. It talks about this exact type of abuse and it taught me an important thing - bc I had an ex like yours. Please read it!
**It is not okay for a current partner to punish you for the crimes of a previous partner.** It is an excuse they use to control and manipulate you.
He will never get better or stop accusing you. This will be the exhausting existence of the rest of your life. And as a faithful partner, you don’t deserve it. He either cuts his shit or you get divorced. And I doubt he’ll decide to cut his shit out.
I second this. My ex constantly accused me of cheating or other things I never did. The part of that book about the man who accused his partner of having sex in an elevator with a stranger was eye opening for me. The man admitted he knew she wasn't cheating, but the accusations kept her downtrodden and under his thumb.
There are only two possibilities, OPs man is broken and unable to deal with his past traumas without taking it out on her. Or he is purposely abusive.
Exactly. They excuse their behavior because of their past relationships but it’s not actually valid.
I finally had it with mine. He’d get mad any time I was texting on my phone (which I generally tried not to do much when we were together anyway, but if I got a random text or caught up in a family chat I’d shoot of a response here and there) and accuse me of texting other guys. Then when I would put my phone down when he came in the room (like if he had been showering or something and I was on it wasting time) he would get mad and tell me it was suspicious bc that’s what his ex would do when she was texting other guys even when I explained more than once it was my way of making sure I gave him my full attention.
Then when my new job required me to be on my phone answering messages he REALLY hated that bc he knew he couldn’t technically say anything about it but he wanted to. When he’d try I’d remind him it was literally my job and I was required to keep up on the work chats and he’d just pout.
Then he’d make passive aggressive comments every time I wore makeup that I must have a reason I was getting “all dolled up” (AKA my normal day’s makeup of foundation, blush, and mascara) like I required an excuse to wear it.
He was exhausting. Looking back I’m shocked I put up with it for a year. But he was gorgeous and the sex was great so… sometimes we willingly look the other way longer than we should.
As someone that has so much trauma from a bunch of different things (cheating being the least bad). Trauma isn’t an excuse to treat your partner like that. I never dump any of my past traumas on my partner even when there were times I was re-triggered and wanted to. It’s his job to heal and to understand it’s not fair to treat other people as if they’re the ones that hurt you. It’s honestly suspicious and almost seems like projection how much he doesn’t trust you. Maybe he’s the one hiding something and his guilty conscious is showing it’s ass
No one wants to pay for their partner’s ex’s sins. Frankly we shouldn’t have to. He can’t help that he gets triggered by infidelity, but he can help how he treats you. He’s punishing you for his ex’s actions and not taking accountability for the harm of his actions.
Ya know...you deserve to be happy, right?!? This is nowhere close to that. You are young. Trust me (punny...not punny), you will be fine and quite possibly soooo much happier. You gave in to all this therapy. You should be reaping the rewards. Good luck to you!
Being constantly accused of cheating is toxic and cruel. I can’t imagine how you could stay in love with someone who treats you this way, especially during intimacy. He has issues but you don’t have to suffer because of it. Based on his behavior do you have proof his ex cheated or is that just the story he made up after she got sick of his crap and left? You don’t have to suffer his insults (being called a cheater and liar is an insult) and insecurities just because he has issues, you deserve to be loved and respected. It may be time to let him deal with his problems on his own. You don’t have to fix him and you don’t have to put up with his abuse because that’s what it is. He’s mentally abusing you and causing you emotional distress for his own selfish and messed up ego.
You know what you have to do, leaving is the only option. He'll pull out all the stops to get you to stay, beg and plead and promise to do better, but change is hard and it takes consistent work and takes a long long time. Even with working on it you'll be enduring these accusations for years. Him improving is accusing you once a week instead of every day for example, is that worth it? Just be abuse ges "working on it" doesn't mean you aren't consistently being treated like garbage.
He needs to understand that he's avoiding dealing with the root cause of his anxiety and he's projecting his fears on you. It's going to kill his marriage.
Your husband has some kind of abusive fixation. Many of us have been cheated on. We don't all become incapable of being rational. I hate to be one of those redditors, but this is not going to stop. I know obsessive people (I'm not trying o diagnose). It doesn't get better unless they are willing to begin a regimen of medicine and extreme personal awareness based in therapy. And, it gets worse with age.
The "clues" he finds are not real. He believes they are real. It's a type of paranoia that is fixated on one person and one person's behavior. He can be normal and rational in other areas of his life. It's a way o avoid intimacy and being a true partner. He is demanding the world of you and giving nothing in return. The more you grow, the more he will tear you down. This behavior is not about the cheating. It is about a dysfunctional need for control. You went hiking where he didn't have control of you. So now he is hijacking that experience with negativity so that you will not want to do that.
Is this what you want to spend your life doing? Struggling just to have a partner that trusts you? It is not wrong to leave someone who is struggling with mental health. He is emotionally abusing you and he knows it. But he enjoys the negativity because he is always in a negative headspace. That is his "home" safety zone. He has control and power. He's so flippant about it (not going to therapy, demanding you need to change instead of him) because he's still focusing on your behavior as what needs control. And your therapist is grossly under qualified to deal with this. She is buying into his controlling behavior and his bullshit obsession with your behavior. You both should already know all this by now.
NTA. What you’re going through is super hard and I’m sorry you’re going through it! Your husband has major trust issues for probably a few reasons. Or……and I’m sorry to say this…..he is the one cheating on you. A peach of a woman I dated was constantly accusing me of cheating on her. I wasn’t for the record. It was constant, almost daily. Come to find out, she was cheating on me. You’re at the point where I was and I just gave up (made easier once I found out about her cheating). Leave him alone for a bit. A separation is warranted imho.
When people accuse their partner of cheating with no proof, it usually means the accuser is cheating
Honestly he sounds exhausting, there is no shame in filing for divorce. You’ve tried very hard to make things works, he sounds like he hasn’t put much effort in on his part, and his behaviour sounds like it’s creeping into abusive territory
When he asks why you’re divorcing him just tell him “I’m tired of your baseless accusations if me cheating, therapy clearly isn’t working, I’m done” and be free, and see a therapist yourself, it’ll be good to have a neutral third party to help you sort shit out
They tried couples counseling and he refuses individual counseling. She's communicated her concerns and emotions yet he refuses to change. What else do you expect her to do? Worship the man?
NTA I wouldn't be able to keep dealing with those accusations. You have fought the fight done therapy and everything but mentally how much longer are you supposed to go through this. What happens if you stay and you guys have kids and they take more after you or your family, that will be more accusations and then he might demand paternity test to prove your innocence. Why keep going through this, I feel it is time to separate, he needs to work on himself separately not mentally and emotionally dragging someone down with him.
He's using his bad past experience as an excuse for control at this point. How sure are you that you know the real story of his ex? I almost wonder if he's been honest about it.
NTA.
NTA.
The issue is not that you are losing empathy.
The issue is that your husband does not seem willing (or lacks the social and emotional capabilities) to move on with life with you in a healthy way.
You deserve better.
This is a very unhealthy relationship. He is treating you like shit. It is not normal or okay to constantly accuse your spouse of cheating with no valid reason. You will never be able to convince him you’re not cheating. There is something wrong with him that you can’t fix.
It’s ultimatum time. Tell him the accusations stop, or your marriage will not last because you refuse to live under constant suspicion when you have never done anything wrong. Tell him if he falsly accuses you again, you’re done and you’re leaving. Start planning your exit strategy.
Why did he marry you? Presumably he had to feel comfortable with your level
of commitment at some point?
He’s either got some major mental health issues or he’s guilty of cheating himself. In 20 years of marriage, I have never looked through my husbands contacts on his phone. I’m bothered by the comment while you were intimate? I’m not sure how your breasts could have a different taste.
If he’s not going to take active steps to trust you, why did he marry you?
Why marry when there are still unresolved issues in the past? We all have traumas to deal with, but this type of baggage should be let go before dating seriously and then marrying. It's poisonous to the relationship.
Please be careful. People like this could transform into a different person later on. As early as now, decide for yourself: for your future safety and for your own well-being.
Where there is no trust, there is also no relationship.
I'm not one to advise people splitting up, but where do you draw the line? Going through the phone, keeping tabs, etc is way too far as is.
It becomes less of a relationship and more of an attempt to prove your innocence, and when there's no evidence found or any in existence to be hidden, there will just come another excuse to be upset and sling accusations.
You are not responsible for his feelings or his issues. He is an adult human and is responsible for managing his own emotions and insecurities. Trauma is not his fault but it is his responsibility to work through it with a professional and not make you pretzel your life around to reassure him. And definitely he has no right to make you feel
uncomfortable or untrustworthy or unsafe. It is ok to say that you are not equipped to manage his trauma for him and if he can’t do it for himself you can’t be in the relationship.
NTA. I suspect that his constant accusations keep you in a heightened state of physical escalation (fight, flight, freeze, fawn, etc). It’s really hard to have empathy for someone who is causing you to be in this state all of the time. I, personally, would seriously considering divorce. It’s just not worth your physical wellbeing when it’s clear he isn’t making solid steps to change. The research says that married women are far less happy and live shorter lives than married women.
I am sure you care for him, but if he doesn't get this issue sorted out, this will NEVER END. If anything, it will only escalate. You're definitely NTA, but this relationship will never be anything but toxic if he can't work through this issue.
One fact that has made me kindda insecure on dating people who have been also cheated on, is that due to the cheating trauma some on them end up becoming cheaters themselves. So maybe he might be the one cheating on you and he is protecting.
I'd send him to a psychiatrist instead. He may have an undiagnosed mental disorder like psychosis. Not saying that's what it is, but he's delusional and paranoid.
You should be very careful at the first sign of violent behavior and get the he'll out. These types of people murder their partners because they're not living in reality.
OP, your husband is dealing with his trauma by taking it out on you, dealing with his own suffering by making you suffer! That is so many kinds of NOT OKAY, and it's the opposite of what a loving spouse would do! A loving spouse wants to protect their beloved from hurt and unhappiness, not cause it!
Seriously, OP, if you want to save the marriage then the only way forward is telling him you're leaving if he doesn't both go to intensive counseling, couple and individual, and actually make progress. But that's only if you want to save the marriag.e
OP, you’ve tried so hard to make this work but his insecurities aren’t your problem. He’s punishing you for other’s actions and honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the cheater and projecting it on you. You can’t continue walking on eggshells, living a life where something as simple as hiking has you accused of cheating. I’m genuinely worried that he’ll escalate his behavior. If you leave him, which I highly suggest, you should have an individual therapy meeting to discuss the safest exit strategy for you.
I don't know how you can stay in that situation. Not being able to trust is one thing but pulling phone records and then that other part? That seems excessive. He's not ready to be in a relationship again.
NTA, i dated some guys like this in high school and it never went well. Before my husband and I got together I had just gotten away from a cheater who was always accusing me of cheating and my husband was with a really controlling, manipulative, lying girl. The first year of us dating was hard because we both were learning how to trust and build a healthy relationship together despite our past relationships. But the thing was that we really really worked on it together and now we don't worry about each other in those ways. If someone doesn't want to change or get help when you're begging them to then they never will. And it's okay to feel done with that person or feel like you just couldn't care less about something that they're crying about years later and making your problem.
NTA. His past trauma is not an excuse to inflict trauma. Get out now. Also get your own therapist unconnected to your couples therapist, because they sound like they are more about saving the relationship, and don’t care that it may be at your expense.
Girl RUN!!! You do not deserve this life, you can escape and have such a wonderful life.
Every single sentence from your husband is to cut him some slack but nowhere do I see you being given any. You've had to put yourself 2nd for 4 years it seems and that has to come to a stop.
I'll attribute it to your age but what about this relationship made you think 'I want to marry this man' or did this all only start up after you got married?
What are you waiting for? For him to get violent? He is not getting better. You are being mistreated all the time. This is not how a marriage works. Put an end to this abuse now. You gave him too many chances already and he comes up with ridiculous shit like how your breasts smell? NTAH, but if you stay in this abusive marriage you are an AH to yourself. You don't deserve this.
Sorry if this sounds weird but he may be cheating on you. Yeah, I know it happened to him in the past but this behavior sounds exactly like how my father behaved. Its because of baggage but also a tad bit of projecting might be in his constant accusations.
NTA. Leave fast.
Just leave. Why are you even asking other people? Your relationship has no basis on trust, and he clearly has zero desire to change or even see you as a person at this point. Just leave...
You are young and have a whole life to live. You shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells around the person who supposed to be your support and on your side.
Your husband has deeper issues and they will only get worse and not better if you stay in this situation. It’s all about him. Where are you in this relationship? You seem to be the accessory to facilitate his narrative.
YNTA. But you need to get out of this toxic and unhealthy relationship.
You have done more than most would to try to keep the marriage on track.
I believe your libido will magically grow with some validation! And of course some libido killers are lurking in our medicine cabinets. (Certain antidepressants, hormonal shifts etc.)
I’m sorry to say your choices are to have a husband who thinks you’re a liar and a cheat or an ex who thinks you’re a liar and a cheat.
Your husband can’t stop believing you’re a piece of crap. That’s not a marriage worth saving. You can’t trust that he’ll ever trust you, that he’ll ever think you’re a good person who won’t lie or trick him.
He’s made you his unsafe place, and that means he can’t be your safe place.
hes not worth it. this is your future if your stay.
you probably have a low sex drive bc your not feeling sexually desires / no longer sexually desire him.
He doesn’t trust you. You can give him every password, live stream every minute of your day or take him with you. That’s not restorative justice for his past relationship.
Accusing you of having Copenhagen(?) on your body - weird - and sleeping with a random stranger in the woods is completely absurd. But he said it with a straight face to a mental health professional.
If he’s projecting this hard, it might be that he’s the one cheating. I’d take a look at HIS phone records
It's time you took some time away from him. I've been with someone like that and It's exhausting! Do you really want a life where you'll always have to defending yourself after a walk?
He's not trying, he's not working on himself. He doesn't intens to either. If he did, he would have a therapist. He would donthe work. Instead he ruin intimacy and goes through your records.
NTA
I heard a quote something along the lines of “heal the wounds others gave you so you don’t bleed on the ones who didn’t cut you”
My husband used to like this not so extreme but the jealousy taints everything.
I had a husband like that, used 2 go threw my underwear & clothes after work..he was the 1 cheating not me. So my experience if he accuses u he's doing
NTA.
Being jealous and having outlandish accusations made by my partner is a MAJOR turnoff for me. Also, it makes me despise cheaters because, they're not the one feeling the consequences of their betrayal. It's like I have to prove myself for what someone else did! I get so sick of it and say "I have not done shiiiiiit to you!" Been there done that. I have zero empathy for being accused of cheating or hiding something from them. This is at the get go. Leave all those accusations at the door.
Are you sure he isn’t projecting? As in, he won’t get off your case because he’s the one cheating on you? NTA, you deserve better than to be accused of something you didn’t do every waking second.
I can sort of understand this level of insecurity and absurdity in the early stages of a relationship between two people in their early 20s. We grow up in different environments and all have different traumas and ideas surrounding romantic relationships and what they should be/what people do within them. So, while I certainly would not give a partner a pass for treating me like this these days, I can *sort of* give your husband a pass for this having been an insecurity at one point.
But if four years in he still doesn’t trust you at all, there’s no hope. There’s no more proving your loyalty at this point. You’ve done all you can. Is this how you’re going to live forever? Is he retaliating against your “indiscretions” and cheating himself? He is causing SO much drama that this is ridiculous. NTA
UPDATE:
Hi Reddit, thank you all for you advice and responses. I greatly appreciate and read each one. Well, here is an update.
A few nights ago he had asked where I had gone, I was confused as I had not gone anywhere. He proceeds to say my car was backed in the driveway (I don't back in unless I have groceries) and now is pulled in. I said I didn't go anywhere, he thought my answers were weird and I was acting weird. But, he left it alone.
Later that night I am initiating hand holding and cuddling, it is late and I say I am going to bed and I love you. He hesitated to give me goodnight kisses but he did it anyways. A few moments later, he goes to take a shower...at 10pm at night, which he hasn't done before...I assume he is taking care of business himself. During this time I say a prayer and say "this feels weird, give me a sign if this is weird"...When he got out of the shower, he gets back in bed and then taps me. He proceeds to say he is done and I am crushing his soul (because he says I don't initiate sex and am disrespectful) and says I am selfish. In couples therapy last week, he says he only needs sex like once a month and will take other stuff as supplemental essentially. Last week (after I uncovered I was molested in therapy) I had sex with him and gave him a handjob. He says since I've come home, I haven't tried at all to give him what he needs. I am trying my hardest :/
Let's not forget I take care of him, his kid, the animals, the house...Literally everything. He wants a gold star because he has helped me with dishes more and has helped more with transporting his child to/from school and now summer camp.
During couples counseling today, he said the same things and then said I was using my newly found trauma as an excuse to not have sex. He also raised his voice at the therapist and said the therapist was being biased towards me and not holding me accountable.
We kept going around in circles after therapy and I finally said I am done. I can't do it anymore.
I am currently packing and crying a lot, I move into my apartment on Monday.
Guys, I am crushed. I am so sad. I am so confused. God speed.
Thank you everyone.
NTA don’t be in a relationship if you have this bad of un resolved trauma. It just hurts the other person and makes the relationship tiring and complex than it should be. Especially if he doesn’t want help that’s on him and not your problem. I’d lose empathy too he’s traumatizing you now because if you were to get into another relationship you’d prob be walking on eggshells to make sure he doesn’t think your cheating. He’s TAH. I’m sorry your going through this
If this was the other way around all you men haters would be calling him the asshole for not giving her all the time and effort she deserves. The OP stated he was “viciously” cheated on. I think the guy might need some time to deal with this. My ex of 15yrs cheated on me and I still having issues trusting anyone. My therapist even stated when I started seeing him it’s worst than a death. You can never understand or trust the reasoning behind infidelity. It will take a lot of time to heal. If the OP went into this relationship knowing the problem then I’m sorry you ATA in my opinion. If that’s something you couldn’t deal with you should t have committed to him.
I have empathy for her husband, being cheated on is probably one of the worst things that could happen to someone in terms of trust and learning to love another person and be vulnerable again.
However, OP’s husband has continually antagonized her for years and is declining therapy even though he knows he has problems. He’s also a bit of a hypocrite since OP mentioned he has had reels of half naked women and thirst traps pop up in his search history and they were deleted days later.
She’s put more than enough energy into someone who has no intention of helping themself.
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NTA I rather hastily married a guy which was more of a rebound thing for me. And he was almost 10 years older and had been a member of the military and was involved in desert storm. Obviously, this was a long time ago. But I still remember how it felt for him to question whether I had been a past or present heroin user because I liked my ice tea to be sweet. Which in his experience that was something that drug users did. And when he randomly showed up at my apartment real early one morning and I saw that it was him, I yelled hold on and I ran to unwrapped the saran wrap from my legs and arms. This was something I did to help my psoriasis. But he thought I was trying to get rid of my lover. I just looked at him in shock and was like noooo, I just needed to put on something more presentable. Then I married him and he wouldn’t even let me visit my sister and brother-in-law without him even though he’s allergic to cats. Which means he forced me to leave after 20 minutes because he was miserable. He did get real scary a couple of times and knocked my purse off of a table at my apartment. And I told him that if he put a hand on me and hurt me, not only was I gonna call the cops and tell his father. He broke down crying& I made him call his dad and admit to what he had done to me. There was a couple of more instances and I had enough. I HAD to leave him. He was too broken by his past two relationships that cheated on him & had abortions. And I just couldn’t be his emotional support when he was punishing me due to HIS insecurities. And dear OP? Only YOU can decide when you’ve had enough and whether this last time or the next will be the final, “I give up. I can’t take it anymore” moment will be for you to decide YOUR mental health and wellbeing is more important than trying to reassure your insecure husband yet again.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is helpful. I feel guilty for leaving him for his insecurities, but that's something I will have to work through.
You’re not leaving him because he is insecure. You are leaving because he is punishing you with his insecurities since he can’t actually punish those that hurt him in the past. Think about that. Everytime he accuses you, he fully believes that he is right despite the evidence. And after a day or two HE gets over it and expects you to as well. THEN an innocent interaction with a male grocery clerk where you smiled & thanked him, turns into YOU flirting and being too friendly. Every day there is potential for your husband to have a meltdown where YOU once again, are expected to be patient with him. And your resentment will continue to grow. I don’t think you deserve a life like that.
That's a good way to put it.
Especially when he is doing nothing to help curb his behaviours anymore. Improving a little isn’t good enough, he is still treating you horribly for what someone else did. You shouldn’t have to be continually punished for the actions of other people. I would stop trying to justify yourself and indulging his paranoia. If he accuses you again say “no”’, if he presses for proof, say “the past 4 years of loyalty should be more than enough”. From then on just keep shutting him down, say no, don’t elaborate. Tell your couples therapist that this is going to be your response from now on and that you have had enough. I also think it may be time for an ultimatum. Either he has made an appointment with an individual therapist by this time next week, or you want a separation with intention to divorce. He doesn’t have to have the appointment by then, it can be hard to get an appointment on short notice, as I’m sure you know, but you want evidence of an appointment confirmation. If not, he can start packing. And follow through with it. NTA, obviously. Good luck OP, this is a sucky situation to be in. Just keep reminding yourself that your feelings are justified, but after 4 years, his are not. Stay strong.
Yeah, you aren't leaving him for his insecurities, you will be leaving him for his refusal to seriously manage those insecurities. Those are two totally different things. If this happened occasionally and he apologized and was improving at a reasonable rate that's one thing but after years he is in position to know that strongly accusing you is the wrong tactic. Counseling is there to provide alternative ways for him to handle those feelings. It doesn't sound like he used any of those techniques and still blamed you. Then instead of escalating he shut down. But he did escalate! Maybe not as bad as in the past but fuck.
The sad thing is that it seems he doesn't recognise the truly self-defeating nature of his behaviour. By regularly accusing OP of infidelity, he is pushing her away and thereby encouraging her to leave him...just the outcome he feared. It looks as if therapy isn't really going to help him as he doesn't really want to change.
Your wouldn't be leaving him for his insecurites. You would be leaving him for his controlling and abusive behavior toward you.
It's not as though you haven't tried. You are in couples therapy after all. Is he seeking individual therapy? If not he definitely needs it. I would recommend that you get individual therapy as well. A therapist would be helpful with resetting your boundaries and sense of self-worth. You may not feel like you need to do this, but if you are feeling "guilty for leaving him for his insecurities" then you may need this. Because it is not his insecurities that are ruining your relationship, it is him not respecting you or trusting you to the point that he is causing you harm. My husband's college girlfriend was a cheater who accused him of cheating often. This was one part of their toxic relationship. It had an effect on him, and we had to work through things he would do as a preemptive action to show he was not cheating that were trained into him by his ex because they triggered my insecurities. For example, he would tell me every time a woman he was not related to contacted him. This made me feel like he was showing off and inferring that I am replicable because I have issues around abandonment and men "trading up". We had one talk where he explained why he was doing that behavior, I explained why what he was doing was negatively triggering me with it, and he stopped the behavior. He is also in the military and we are a part for long periods of time. Yet he has never once accused me of cheating. You have been together for years and presumably live together at this point. He is not going to get better because he has been shown that there are no consequences for his actions. He will only stay the same or get worse.
You're not leaving him for his insecurities. You're leaving him for how he deals with his insecurities.
He won’t attempt to work through his insecurities and heal himself - which is the only way he can actually heal - as long as he has you there to be his comfort girlfriend and to blame for everything wrong in his life. He may still choose not to heal when single but he won’t choose to heal with you because he doesn’t have to. This works for him and he doesn’t care that it doesn’t work for you.
Self-Preservation is a natural thing. Your mind and your body we're telling you to not be in that situation. You need to realize, you did nothing wrong. Just like Al-Anon deals with family members of alcoholics, there are support groups for people recovering from abusive relationships. If you're feelings are strong enough that you need help, don't be afraid. There are other people carrying guilt , shame and trauma that is not their own. Sometimes sharing experiences with others helps you realize this. Hopefully this helps.
Well if you ever talk to him, make sure to tell him that all of the south is on heroin...
Today I learned that Southern tea is really heroin recovery tea! I prefer mine usweetened. 🥤 That aside, I'm a veteran with PTSD trauma prior to the military, and exacerbated by the military experience. It sounds to me like there's a lot going on with him, he needs to work on himself. If you can't be comfortable and secure with yourself, you only bring those insecurities and trauma into a relationship. I've seen this cycle many times with my mom. The stigma of mental health hits hard in this country. If you break your leg, you seek medical assistance, you don't walk it off. It's very hard to come to terms with the fact that we can't do this on your own. Feelings of hurt and betrayal tend to stagnate and become anger. You have no idea where this anger is originating from, and it sounds like he needs to find out before he hurts himself, or others. I'm glad you gave him an ultimatum, sometimes a wake up call is necessary. I applaud you for looking out for yourself, we are responsible for ourselves. Our own mental and physical well-being is key to any functioning relationship. Whether it be with others, or our own selves. I'm not saying we're all the same, with each person deals with their pain differently, Even in therapy. But knowing when to ask for help is as important as anything else in life. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes, and evolve into a better person. A genuine secure person that he is comfortable with, and others will be comfortable around. I hope his emotional scars didn't pass on to you, That's the worst part of trauma.
You've given it a really solid try, OP. He clearly is not mentally or emotionally healthy enough to be in a committed relationsip. If he was willing to really deal with it maybe you'd feel different. I think it's ok to move on.
When he accuses your boobs of tasting like a tobacco product, it’s time to pack it up. Honestly, the phone record pulling would have been it for me. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
Yep I'd understand if the accusation was off the back of a particular situation that made him worried (overnight stay with coworker or randomly not coming home etc) but the whole tobacco boob thing is just insane.
It's probably lotion! And wow, this guy makes me think of my ex. Once he said that as I was looking out thr window, that some random guy walking by was going to meet me later. We had just moved to the state and knew NO ONE. Later when he took me to a new job, he said all the men were looking at me. Well, I am a stranger who just walked in the room.... Delusions dont need facts. Fears look for expression.
Holy shit, this is like schizophrenia level paranoia. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets diagnosed with it down the line.
This is good advice.
That said, - OP is TAH. She married the guy in full knowledge of his situation (clearly he can't control it or hide it from her). OP probably came in with the delusion "I can fix him!" and when that turned out to not be the case now she wants out of her commitment. The whole situation is her fault - and she's gonna put the poor guy through more unnecessary trauma. Also wtf is marriage and your vows to you? just a half hearted joke? Marriage is supposed to be "I choose you as my life partner, for better or worse, forever." This mentality that you can just go back like you didn't declare your life long commitment to something is destroying marriage and relationships between people. It's no wonder everyone is staying single. OP is Immature, has unrealistic expectations, and doesn't take her commitments seriously. 100% TAH.
Four years of support and only a 5% improvement from him....but she doesn't take her commitments seriously? 4 years going onto 5 of her life of supporting him, dealing with yelling matches, accusations, crying, empty beds, therapy, him not taking his therapy seriously...and she doesn't take her commitments seriously?
Marriage is supposed to be a life long commitment - so yeah. If the guy ain't marriage material, Don't marry him! (mind blowing) Otherwise - stick to your commitments.
This mindset can be manipulated into such a toxic mindset, lol. Whatever, bro 😂.
It can just as likely be a very healthy mindset of a person who takes responsibility (theirs included) seriously. You'd want to be able to rely on your partner that when they agree to marry you, you're gonna stick by their word right? The alternative is never being able to let yourself be safe in your marriage out of fear they might change their mind and divorce your ass over any inconvenience or downturn in life. I.e. you get sick and can't work for an undetermined amount of time while you deal with the condition/illness. If marriage is just a casual commitment you'll live in fear every day your partner might leave you out of convenience. - and you should never feel that way in such a relationship.
Stop blaming the victim. Marriage ain't a one way street, if OP’s husband wants to treat them like a cheater and refuse to do better then their isn't any reason OP shouldn't be able to leave him without being made to feel bad about it. Relationships aren't one persons responsibility, one person can't be relied on to constantly work for it whilst the other does nothing but blame and accuse the other of being unfaithful for legitimately no reason other then “a completely different person cheated on me at some point” it's nothing but work for the other person to tiptoe and baby someone that absolutely refuses to let go of the wrongs some totally different person committed.
I 100% agree, - "Marriage ain't a one way street", "Relationships aren't one persons responsibility". That said, If OP doesn't like the terms and conditions of her partnership.. why did she sign the contract? :) How is she a victim if she was fully aware of the terms and conditions going in?.. It's not like they got married and he suddenly pulled a switch-a-roo on her. Where's her accountability and responsibility in all of this??
Don't compare an illness/physical health condition with OPs husband making absolutely shit progress out of 4 years bc he got cheated on, lol. If he couldn't move on from cheating, he also shouldn't have dated nor married. 4 years is a lot of time for shit progress. I feel the same way towards if a women was like OPs husband, just to state. I also saw the other comment you made, that you want to talk about OPs accountability and responsibility. Where's her husband's accountability and responsibility? Has she not done her part and more in the past 4 going on 5 years? He also has a responsibility and accountability involving their marriage, and he is failing those conditions miserably at this point. Are you also the type of person to feel the same way with divorce when someones significant other is abusive? If the answer is NO, I'm guessing you don't count the constant mental abuse OPs husband puts her through by arguing and yelling at her, in her face, accusing her over and over and over again about cheating and making her life a living hell as a type of abuse. Which it is... because it's affecting her mental health a lot at this point she's breaking down. And God damn, she was around for a while before she hit this point. You want to criticize her for her accountability and responsibility but 4 going on 5 long ass years to work with him and help him grow while showing zero proof nor signs of infidelity seems to be one hell of a responsibility and accountability. The only thing to show is him dropping the accusation just to bring it up again in therapy; just to start another argument based on his mental mindset...and the cycle continues. This isn't the time of our grandparents buddy, women and men don't need to suffer in a relationship for years anymore in silence all because of a vow. You're acting like op was just with him for a year or a few months. It's been four-five years. Of the same shit. Of the same constant mental abuse. Of the same repetitive arguments. OPs husband doesn't WANT to get better. So why should she now suffer for the rest of her life? Because she tried her best to uphold some vow words? Put her mental health over his for 4 years? Deal with this constant verbal abuse??? Please, lol.
Nah as an adult you’re fully responsible for your emotions and dealing with your trauma. You don’t get to place the responsibility onto someone else. It won’t matter what partner he is with, if he does not take ownership of his actions and how they’re negatively impacting his partner he will continue to have dysfunctional relationships. No one should ever be “out of control” of their actions. Otherwise.. don’t date.
I 100% Agree OP should take full responsibility for making the choice to marry the nutter. Marriage is supposed to be one of if not THE biggest decisions you make in life. Who you decide to spend your life with is a MASSIVE deal that will effect all aspects of your life. So you better make a good choice. OP did not.. and that's on her. - and she will forever be TAH for her arrogance and hubris that she could take a broken man and fix him. And now the poor guy will be subjected to greater trauma of his wife leaving him instead of a simple rejection at the start.
There's so much projection in this comment, we may as well be at the movies.
You must be a man and possibly the OP spouse or a family member.
I’m so sorry. You’re NTAH at all. I would definitely be fed up and probably couldn’t be with someone like that unfortunately, especially if he’s not going back to therapy. I hope you brought up your feelings in couples therapy and that he goes back to therapy soon
Im sorry. Hes clearly nowhere near ready to be a husband. Are you certain he has not cheated?
A few months ago his instagram explorer page was full of busty insta models. I confronted him and he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said he was just looking at pictures and profiles. He said he didn't interact with anyone, idk. His explore page still has occasional lustful women. He also searched for someone who I think is a pornstar and then when I looked a few days later, his search history was cleared. So he might be. IDK
ya sadly the most probable reason for his behavior is he’s actually the cheater & is projecting that onto u to make himself feel better & ultimately distract u hoping u never suspect it of him. this is 100% emotional abuse & borderline sociopathic. my first boyfriend did the same thing to me & said it was because his mom cheated on his dad…then i found his 2nd MySpace page listed as single w/ comments from his friend’s sister’s best friend among other girls. so whether he was really cheated on or not by his ex he’s just using that as an excuse. i don’t know u, but i know no one deserves to be treated like this or have their precious time wasted like this. girl, u basically already caught him deleting evidence…very few other legit reasons for clearing his history. if by chance u live in SoCal i would help find u the proof ur looking for, but regardless the person that’s meant for u wouldn’t put u through any of this.
He is the cheater!
Yep, I suspected it too. He’s projecting his behavior onto her. OP, just go. You don’t need to prove anything. You deserve peace. Let him have his nonsense all to himself. He doesn’t deserve your empathy or investment any longer.
If you REALLY want to catch him, buy a used iPad on Facebook and sign into his icloud on it. All his texts and calls will come up in the iPad. If you get an earlier model it doesn't have the update where deleted texts from the phone delete from the iPad. I think 3rd gen and earlier won't take the update so any texts or calls he deletes will still be in the iPad. GPS tracker on his car. No advice for android users as far as the phone, though.
How do I actually catch him tho?
You don’t need proof, just leave.
Third voice chiming in to say “don’t bother, just leave.”
Don't bother.
He’s probably cheated and is punishing you for it.
I would have left so long ago. Having been mistreated doesn't give a free pass to mistreat others.
Is there any chance he’s the one cheating? This sounds a lot like he doth protest too much and could be trying to DARVO you. (Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim Offender.) And quite frankly, if he’s so convinced you cheated, why is he not the one leaving? I think you have every right to protect your sanity and peace and leave.
If in 4 years of marriage he doesn’t trust u, I think this ran its course. Sorry to bring a pessimistic perception
Give him the choice of IC or separation. Be firm and don't back down. You can't live like this and it won't get better if he doesn't get help. Look into his eyes and assure him that you love him with all your heart and he has nothing to worry about, but you can't go on like this. Maybe he will wake up finally and trust you without fear.
I would be willing to bet he's actually the cheater. If that's the case then she needs to DTMFA
Why marry someone who doesn’t trust you this much? Also being accused THAT much would really make me believe he’s the one who’s the cheater.
A few months ago his instagram explorer page was full of busty insta models. I confronted him and he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said he was just looking at pictures and profiles. He said he didn't interact with anyone, idk. His explore page still has occasional lustful women. He also searched for someone who I think is a pornstar and then when I looked a few days later, his search history was cleared. So he might be. IDK
Pulling phone records too? Soo why did you marry this guy? He sounds like a person who’s doing terrible things and accusing you of doing those things. If couples therapy AND individual therapy can’t help him then I think it’s time you put yourself first. There are a lot of men out there that won’t accuse you of cheating every single day of your life. You’re still young but seriously start loving yourself. Imagine if you had a daughter and she was with a man who accused her of cheating but hits up insta models being thirsty af.
Right. He was displaying this behavior prior to marriage. Why the fuck did she marry him? OP isn't very smart.
Yep, I called it. He's the cheater and he's projecting girl, run.
Nta I think you should bring up the possibility of ending your marriage at the next counseling session. That way you have a therapist to meditate when he inevitably accuses you of leaving him for another partner instead of this being the consequences of HIS actions.
I really hope OP sees your comment. It would also be best to have someone else present as he will more than likely lose his shit at this self-fulfilling prophecy which OP should not be feeling any blame for at all.
This guy is not mentally well enough to be in a relationship, let alone a marriage. Maybe not ever, if he’s not willing to go therapy and get help for his issues. You should have left a long time ago.
I am sorry but that is not ok to deal with anymore. I think you need to looks at what money you make, what money he makes and start figuring out how you can start to separate. If you can afford to be on your own, you need to do that. You can tell him that you have been more than patient, more than kind, more than understanding and your done dealing with the aftermath of his last relationship. your don't being accused of cheating, and your done not living life worried he will accuse you of cheating. Its time to end this relationship and move on. You will spend the rest of your life dealing with this .
NTA, but Why get married if he has trust issues and can’t trust you? You are both really young and I honestly have no idea why two people would rush to get married in a situation like this?!?
Yea, I'd be fed up too...you did the best you could. It's ok to move on
This is why people should take time to heal before then enter a new relationship
Reading the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft would be beneficial for you. It talks about this exact type of abuse and it taught me an important thing - bc I had an ex like yours. Please read it! **It is not okay for a current partner to punish you for the crimes of a previous partner.** It is an excuse they use to control and manipulate you. He will never get better or stop accusing you. This will be the exhausting existence of the rest of your life. And as a faithful partner, you don’t deserve it. He either cuts his shit or you get divorced. And I doubt he’ll decide to cut his shit out.
I second this. My ex constantly accused me of cheating or other things I never did. The part of that book about the man who accused his partner of having sex in an elevator with a stranger was eye opening for me. The man admitted he knew she wasn't cheating, but the accusations kept her downtrodden and under his thumb. There are only two possibilities, OPs man is broken and unable to deal with his past traumas without taking it out on her. Or he is purposely abusive.
Exactly. They excuse their behavior because of their past relationships but it’s not actually valid. I finally had it with mine. He’d get mad any time I was texting on my phone (which I generally tried not to do much when we were together anyway, but if I got a random text or caught up in a family chat I’d shoot of a response here and there) and accuse me of texting other guys. Then when I would put my phone down when he came in the room (like if he had been showering or something and I was on it wasting time) he would get mad and tell me it was suspicious bc that’s what his ex would do when she was texting other guys even when I explained more than once it was my way of making sure I gave him my full attention. Then when my new job required me to be on my phone answering messages he REALLY hated that bc he knew he couldn’t technically say anything about it but he wanted to. When he’d try I’d remind him it was literally my job and I was required to keep up on the work chats and he’d just pout. Then he’d make passive aggressive comments every time I wore makeup that I must have a reason I was getting “all dolled up” (AKA my normal day’s makeup of foundation, blush, and mascara) like I required an excuse to wear it. He was exhausting. Looking back I’m shocked I put up with it for a year. But he was gorgeous and the sex was great so… sometimes we willingly look the other way longer than we should.
As someone that has so much trauma from a bunch of different things (cheating being the least bad). Trauma isn’t an excuse to treat your partner like that. I never dump any of my past traumas on my partner even when there were times I was re-triggered and wanted to. It’s his job to heal and to understand it’s not fair to treat other people as if they’re the ones that hurt you. It’s honestly suspicious and almost seems like projection how much he doesn’t trust you. Maybe he’s the one hiding something and his guilty conscious is showing it’s ass
No one wants to pay for their partner’s ex’s sins. Frankly we shouldn’t have to. He can’t help that he gets triggered by infidelity, but he can help how he treats you. He’s punishing you for his ex’s actions and not taking accountability for the harm of his actions.
Ya know...you deserve to be happy, right?!? This is nowhere close to that. You are young. Trust me (punny...not punny), you will be fine and quite possibly soooo much happier. You gave in to all this therapy. You should be reaping the rewards. Good luck to you!
Being constantly accused of cheating is toxic and cruel. I can’t imagine how you could stay in love with someone who treats you this way, especially during intimacy. He has issues but you don’t have to suffer because of it. Based on his behavior do you have proof his ex cheated or is that just the story he made up after she got sick of his crap and left? You don’t have to suffer his insults (being called a cheater and liar is an insult) and insecurities just because he has issues, you deserve to be loved and respected. It may be time to let him deal with his problems on his own. You don’t have to fix him and you don’t have to put up with his abuse because that’s what it is. He’s mentally abusing you and causing you emotional distress for his own selfish and messed up ego.
You know what you have to do, leaving is the only option. He'll pull out all the stops to get you to stay, beg and plead and promise to do better, but change is hard and it takes consistent work and takes a long long time. Even with working on it you'll be enduring these accusations for years. Him improving is accusing you once a week instead of every day for example, is that worth it? Just be abuse ges "working on it" doesn't mean you aren't consistently being treated like garbage.
NTA.
Leave.
He needs to understand that he's avoiding dealing with the root cause of his anxiety and he's projecting his fears on you. It's going to kill his marriage.
Updateme
Honestly, I would tell him that if he causes you again, then you’re going to cheat. I’d you’re going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.
NTA. I would not be surprised if he was the one cheating. Constant accusations sounds like it could also be projecting.
Your husband has some kind of abusive fixation. Many of us have been cheated on. We don't all become incapable of being rational. I hate to be one of those redditors, but this is not going to stop. I know obsessive people (I'm not trying o diagnose). It doesn't get better unless they are willing to begin a regimen of medicine and extreme personal awareness based in therapy. And, it gets worse with age. The "clues" he finds are not real. He believes they are real. It's a type of paranoia that is fixated on one person and one person's behavior. He can be normal and rational in other areas of his life. It's a way o avoid intimacy and being a true partner. He is demanding the world of you and giving nothing in return. The more you grow, the more he will tear you down. This behavior is not about the cheating. It is about a dysfunctional need for control. You went hiking where he didn't have control of you. So now he is hijacking that experience with negativity so that you will not want to do that. Is this what you want to spend your life doing? Struggling just to have a partner that trusts you? It is not wrong to leave someone who is struggling with mental health. He is emotionally abusing you and he knows it. But he enjoys the negativity because he is always in a negative headspace. That is his "home" safety zone. He has control and power. He's so flippant about it (not going to therapy, demanding you need to change instead of him) because he's still focusing on your behavior as what needs control. And your therapist is grossly under qualified to deal with this. She is buying into his controlling behavior and his bullshit obsession with your behavior. You both should already know all this by now.
NTA. What you’re going through is super hard and I’m sorry you’re going through it! Your husband has major trust issues for probably a few reasons. Or……and I’m sorry to say this…..he is the one cheating on you. A peach of a woman I dated was constantly accusing me of cheating on her. I wasn’t for the record. It was constant, almost daily. Come to find out, she was cheating on me. You’re at the point where I was and I just gave up (made easier once I found out about her cheating). Leave him alone for a bit. A separation is warranted imho.
When people accuse their partner of cheating with no proof, it usually means the accuser is cheating Honestly he sounds exhausting, there is no shame in filing for divorce. You’ve tried very hard to make things works, he sounds like he hasn’t put much effort in on his part, and his behaviour sounds like it’s creeping into abusive territory When he asks why you’re divorcing him just tell him “I’m tired of your baseless accusations if me cheating, therapy clearly isn’t working, I’m done” and be free, and see a therapist yourself, it’ll be good to have a neutral third party to help you sort shit out
It's usually the one that is continuing to accuse you of cheating that he is the one that is actually cheating I would look into that if I were you
The urge to say for people "just dump him/her" when I'm on Reddit sometimes is so overwhelming...
They tried couples counseling and he refuses individual counseling. She's communicated her concerns and emotions yet he refuses to change. What else do you expect her to do? Worship the man?
Like I said, I have the urge to say dump him.
Sorry I totally misread that! I should stop being on reddit when I'm falling asleep!
Let's face it: we all should stop being on Reddit, but here we are lol
Very true
NTA I wouldn't be able to keep dealing with those accusations. You have fought the fight done therapy and everything but mentally how much longer are you supposed to go through this. What happens if you stay and you guys have kids and they take more after you or your family, that will be more accusations and then he might demand paternity test to prove your innocence. Why keep going through this, I feel it is time to separate, he needs to work on himself separately not mentally and emotionally dragging someone down with him.
He's using his bad past experience as an excuse for control at this point. How sure are you that you know the real story of his ex? I almost wonder if he's been honest about it. NTA.
NTA. The issue is not that you are losing empathy. The issue is that your husband does not seem willing (or lacks the social and emotional capabilities) to move on with life with you in a healthy way. You deserve better.
This is a very unhealthy relationship. He is treating you like shit. It is not normal or okay to constantly accuse your spouse of cheating with no valid reason. You will never be able to convince him you’re not cheating. There is something wrong with him that you can’t fix. It’s ultimatum time. Tell him the accusations stop, or your marriage will not last because you refuse to live under constant suspicion when you have never done anything wrong. Tell him if he falsly accuses you again, you’re done and you’re leaving. Start planning your exit strategy.
Why did he marry you? Presumably he had to feel comfortable with your level of commitment at some point? He’s either got some major mental health issues or he’s guilty of cheating himself. In 20 years of marriage, I have never looked through my husbands contacts on his phone. I’m bothered by the comment while you were intimate? I’m not sure how your breasts could have a different taste. If he’s not going to take active steps to trust you, why did he marry you?
Why marry when there are still unresolved issues in the past? We all have traumas to deal with, but this type of baggage should be let go before dating seriously and then marrying. It's poisonous to the relationship. Please be careful. People like this could transform into a different person later on. As early as now, decide for yourself: for your future safety and for your own well-being.
Girl he is the one cheating. He is projecting. You better start getting tested for STDs and make a plan to get out
You’re so young. Life is just too short for this. I’d leave him tbh
Where there is no trust, there is also no relationship. I'm not one to advise people splitting up, but where do you draw the line? Going through the phone, keeping tabs, etc is way too far as is. It becomes less of a relationship and more of an attempt to prove your innocence, and when there's no evidence found or any in existence to be hidden, there will just come another excuse to be upset and sling accusations.
Just start accusing him of cheating once or twice a week and see how he reacts.
You are not responsible for his feelings or his issues. He is an adult human and is responsible for managing his own emotions and insecurities. Trauma is not his fault but it is his responsibility to work through it with a professional and not make you pretzel your life around to reassure him. And definitely he has no right to make you feel uncomfortable or untrustworthy or unsafe. It is ok to say that you are not equipped to manage his trauma for him and if he can’t do it for himself you can’t be in the relationship.
Schizo moment 😭
NTA. I suspect that his constant accusations keep you in a heightened state of physical escalation (fight, flight, freeze, fawn, etc). It’s really hard to have empathy for someone who is causing you to be in this state all of the time. I, personally, would seriously considering divorce. It’s just not worth your physical wellbeing when it’s clear he isn’t making solid steps to change. The research says that married women are far less happy and live shorter lives than married women.
I am sure you care for him, but if he doesn't get this issue sorted out, this will NEVER END. If anything, it will only escalate. You're definitely NTA, but this relationship will never be anything but toxic if he can't work through this issue.
He has crazy issues. You shouldn’t have to deal with that 24/7. It’s clearly impacting your relationship severely. You have to leave
One fact that has made me kindda insecure on dating people who have been also cheated on, is that due to the cheating trauma some on them end up becoming cheaters themselves. So maybe he might be the one cheating on you and he is protecting.
I'd send him to a psychiatrist instead. He may have an undiagnosed mental disorder like psychosis. Not saying that's what it is, but he's delusional and paranoid. You should be very careful at the first sign of violent behavior and get the he'll out. These types of people murder their partners because they're not living in reality.
OP, your husband is dealing with his trauma by taking it out on you, dealing with his own suffering by making you suffer! That is so many kinds of NOT OKAY, and it's the opposite of what a loving spouse would do! A loving spouse wants to protect their beloved from hurt and unhappiness, not cause it! Seriously, OP, if you want to save the marriage then the only way forward is telling him you're leaving if he doesn't both go to intensive counseling, couple and individual, and actually make progress. But that's only if you want to save the marriag.e
OP, you’ve tried so hard to make this work but his insecurities aren’t your problem. He’s punishing you for other’s actions and honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the cheater and projecting it on you. You can’t continue walking on eggshells, living a life where something as simple as hiking has you accused of cheating. I’m genuinely worried that he’ll escalate his behavior. If you leave him, which I highly suggest, you should have an individual therapy meeting to discuss the safest exit strategy for you.
I don't know how you can stay in that situation. Not being able to trust is one thing but pulling phone records and then that other part? That seems excessive. He's not ready to be in a relationship again.
NTA, i dated some guys like this in high school and it never went well. Before my husband and I got together I had just gotten away from a cheater who was always accusing me of cheating and my husband was with a really controlling, manipulative, lying girl. The first year of us dating was hard because we both were learning how to trust and build a healthy relationship together despite our past relationships. But the thing was that we really really worked on it together and now we don't worry about each other in those ways. If someone doesn't want to change or get help when you're begging them to then they never will. And it's okay to feel done with that person or feel like you just couldn't care less about something that they're crying about years later and making your problem.
NTA. His past trauma is not an excuse to inflict trauma. Get out now. Also get your own therapist unconnected to your couples therapist, because they sound like they are more about saving the relationship, and don’t care that it may be at your expense.
Girl RUN!!! You do not deserve this life, you can escape and have such a wonderful life. Every single sentence from your husband is to cut him some slack but nowhere do I see you being given any. You've had to put yourself 2nd for 4 years it seems and that has to come to a stop. I'll attribute it to your age but what about this relationship made you think 'I want to marry this man' or did this all only start up after you got married?
NTA. Get out of that relationship for your own sanity.
What are you waiting for? For him to get violent? He is not getting better. You are being mistreated all the time. This is not how a marriage works. Put an end to this abuse now. You gave him too many chances already and he comes up with ridiculous shit like how your breasts smell? NTAH, but if you stay in this abusive marriage you are an AH to yourself. You don't deserve this.
Insecure men are the god damn worst. Leave and don't come back until he has done at least a few months of therapy. This is emotional abuse.
Sorry if this sounds weird but he may be cheating on you. Yeah, I know it happened to him in the past but this behavior sounds exactly like how my father behaved. Its because of baggage but also a tad bit of projecting might be in his constant accusations. NTA. Leave fast.
Just leave. Why are you even asking other people? Your relationship has no basis on trust, and he clearly has zero desire to change or even see you as a person at this point. Just leave...
He's probably cheating and is hoping to catch you cheating too so he can justify it.
You are young and have a whole life to live. You shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells around the person who supposed to be your support and on your side. Your husband has deeper issues and they will only get worse and not better if you stay in this situation. It’s all about him. Where are you in this relationship? You seem to be the accessory to facilitate his narrative. YNTA. But you need to get out of this toxic and unhealthy relationship. You have done more than most would to try to keep the marriage on track.
Sounds like a redneck beta
I believe your libido will magically grow with some validation! And of course some libido killers are lurking in our medicine cabinets. (Certain antidepressants, hormonal shifts etc.)
I’m sorry to say your choices are to have a husband who thinks you’re a liar and a cheat or an ex who thinks you’re a liar and a cheat. Your husband can’t stop believing you’re a piece of crap. That’s not a marriage worth saving. You can’t trust that he’ll ever trust you, that he’ll ever think you’re a good person who won’t lie or trick him. He’s made you his unsafe place, and that means he can’t be your safe place.
hes not worth it. this is your future if your stay. you probably have a low sex drive bc your not feeling sexually desires / no longer sexually desire him.
NTA. Your husband is pathetic, if you've given him no reason to doubt you, tell him to cut out the nonsense or get a divorce. It must be exhausting!
He doesn’t trust you. You can give him every password, live stream every minute of your day or take him with you. That’s not restorative justice for his past relationship. Accusing you of having Copenhagen(?) on your body - weird - and sleeping with a random stranger in the woods is completely absurd. But he said it with a straight face to a mental health professional. If he’s projecting this hard, it might be that he’s the one cheating. I’d take a look at HIS phone records
You have low libido because you do not like this man. You will be happier alone.
It's time you took some time away from him. I've been with someone like that and It's exhausting! Do you really want a life where you'll always have to defending yourself after a walk? He's not trying, he's not working on himself. He doesn't intens to either. If he did, he would have a therapist. He would donthe work. Instead he ruin intimacy and goes through your records. NTA
NTA. If my husband ever said anything like that toe even once, sex would be off the table.
I heard a quote something along the lines of “heal the wounds others gave you so you don’t bleed on the ones who didn’t cut you” My husband used to like this not so extreme but the jealousy taints everything.
I had a husband like that, used 2 go threw my underwear & clothes after work..he was the 1 cheating not me. So my experience if he accuses u he's doing
NTA. Being jealous and having outlandish accusations made by my partner is a MAJOR turnoff for me. Also, it makes me despise cheaters because, they're not the one feeling the consequences of their betrayal. It's like I have to prove myself for what someone else did! I get so sick of it and say "I have not done shiiiiiit to you!" Been there done that. I have zero empathy for being accused of cheating or hiding something from them. This is at the get go. Leave all those accusations at the door.
Are you sure he isn’t projecting? As in, he won’t get off your case because he’s the one cheating on you? NTA, you deserve better than to be accused of something you didn’t do every waking second.
I can sort of understand this level of insecurity and absurdity in the early stages of a relationship between two people in their early 20s. We grow up in different environments and all have different traumas and ideas surrounding romantic relationships and what they should be/what people do within them. So, while I certainly would not give a partner a pass for treating me like this these days, I can *sort of* give your husband a pass for this having been an insecurity at one point. But if four years in he still doesn’t trust you at all, there’s no hope. There’s no more proving your loyalty at this point. You’ve done all you can. Is this how you’re going to live forever? Is he retaliating against your “indiscretions” and cheating himself? He is causing SO much drama that this is ridiculous. NTA
You stayed longer than I would have. That's exhausting.
Nah honey He is more than likely cheating on you The one who claims it and keeps on claiming it is usually the one that is the cheater
UPDATE: Hi Reddit, thank you all for you advice and responses. I greatly appreciate and read each one. Well, here is an update. A few nights ago he had asked where I had gone, I was confused as I had not gone anywhere. He proceeds to say my car was backed in the driveway (I don't back in unless I have groceries) and now is pulled in. I said I didn't go anywhere, he thought my answers were weird and I was acting weird. But, he left it alone. Later that night I am initiating hand holding and cuddling, it is late and I say I am going to bed and I love you. He hesitated to give me goodnight kisses but he did it anyways. A few moments later, he goes to take a shower...at 10pm at night, which he hasn't done before...I assume he is taking care of business himself. During this time I say a prayer and say "this feels weird, give me a sign if this is weird"...When he got out of the shower, he gets back in bed and then taps me. He proceeds to say he is done and I am crushing his soul (because he says I don't initiate sex and am disrespectful) and says I am selfish. In couples therapy last week, he says he only needs sex like once a month and will take other stuff as supplemental essentially. Last week (after I uncovered I was molested in therapy) I had sex with him and gave him a handjob. He says since I've come home, I haven't tried at all to give him what he needs. I am trying my hardest :/ Let's not forget I take care of him, his kid, the animals, the house...Literally everything. He wants a gold star because he has helped me with dishes more and has helped more with transporting his child to/from school and now summer camp. During couples counseling today, he said the same things and then said I was using my newly found trauma as an excuse to not have sex. He also raised his voice at the therapist and said the therapist was being biased towards me and not holding me accountable. We kept going around in circles after therapy and I finally said I am done. I can't do it anymore. I am currently packing and crying a lot, I move into my apartment on Monday. Guys, I am crushed. I am so sad. I am so confused. God speed. Thank you everyone.
NTA don’t be in a relationship if you have this bad of un resolved trauma. It just hurts the other person and makes the relationship tiring and complex than it should be. Especially if he doesn’t want help that’s on him and not your problem. I’d lose empathy too he’s traumatizing you now because if you were to get into another relationship you’d prob be walking on eggshells to make sure he doesn’t think your cheating. He’s TAH. I’m sorry your going through this
I think he was this way BEFORE he got cheated on and the ex noped out faster than you.
He sounds like the cheater
Viciously cheated on?
If this was the other way around all you men haters would be calling him the asshole for not giving her all the time and effort she deserves. The OP stated he was “viciously” cheated on. I think the guy might need some time to deal with this. My ex of 15yrs cheated on me and I still having issues trusting anyone. My therapist even stated when I started seeing him it’s worst than a death. You can never understand or trust the reasoning behind infidelity. It will take a lot of time to heal. If the OP went into this relationship knowing the problem then I’m sorry you ATA in my opinion. If that’s something you couldn’t deal with you should t have committed to him.
I have empathy for her husband, being cheated on is probably one of the worst things that could happen to someone in terms of trust and learning to love another person and be vulnerable again. However, OP’s husband has continually antagonized her for years and is declining therapy even though he knows he has problems. He’s also a bit of a hypocrite since OP mentioned he has had reels of half naked women and thirst traps pop up in his search history and they were deleted days later. She’s put more than enough energy into someone who has no intention of helping themself.
Some time? They've been married for years.
Down vote me all you want. You man haters are all the same