Yes. I've heard this lumped in with Topping From The Bottom, but I think it's more of Ordering Off the Menu or Follow My Script behaviour.
They "love women" as an abstraction or an object for their pleasure. There is no space in these sorts of performative fantasies for the actual, individual woman in the room. You're just temporarily occupying the role of Goddess. Warm fleshed shoved into a costume that a million others were shoved into first. It's a role they have written inside their own head, and they will enforce the script.
His kink is about worshipping one specific, narrative and a narrow, warped idea of womanhood -- which wouldn't be so bad if *he knew it*, and could balance that sexual interest with respect for the individual woman -- but most of them I've met cannot pull off the Women Are Also People mental gymnastics required to just, like what they like, and not conflate what they like with objective truth about all women.
I'd kick the guy to the curb and say if he needs someone who follows his exact script for sex all the time, and will not have a conversation about what actually satisfies them as an individual, then he needs to pay a sex worker and pay her well. He's looking for a performer and a service provider, not a partner.
And yes, lots of submissive men have called me 'Not really a d/switch" for drawing this boundary and sending them packing. I just tell them real service cannot be defined solely by the servant, but Goddess energy is defined solely by the Goddess.
I think the term “kink dispenser” also applies here. The guy just wants his kink and nothing else. He’s not treating her like a partner, he’s treating her like an object that dispenses what he wants.
Ooh, I like that. I had a knock-down, drag out fight on Fet once where I could have used that. I pointed out this pattern of guys who go on and on about how good their oral game is, and how they just want to worship their queen for hours and hours and orgasm after orgasm. But that when push comes to shove it's all about them and their ego about be the best pussy-licker around. And if they happen to encounter a woman who doesn't orgasm easily from oral, or can only come once and then wants her partner to get the fuck off of her, then it's *her* problem for not doing it right.
Not that I'm interested in topping, but it's to the point that if I see a profile that has even a hint of that kind of attitude, I immediately toss them on the trash pile.
>say if he needs someone who follows his exact script for sex all the time, and will not have a conversation about what actually satisfies them as an individual, then he needs to pay a sex worker and pay her well.
I had a first date with a guy once who told me that he couldn't orgasm from any sex that was not the exact scenario of "pretend I am a vampire and have hypnotized you and you can't move or speak". And I was like that's a doll - you're describing a doll.
One interesting thing I read, it mightve been on reddit or part of a series...
The sub is inherently in control of a healthy bdsm relationship because they draw the hard boundaries and get to say yes or no to things etc
So even if someone is a sub, they can be a shitty sub as you described, trying to center themselves in every interaction
Yes. It's often discussed as a sub having the ultimate power because they can say no, and sometimes pushy/shitty subs can take advantage of that framing. Reality is both people can say No, at any time. Consent is Queen regardless of what side of the power exchange you're on. I have absolutely said No to subs. No, that is not something I perform. No, not something I find pleasure in. No, I'm not doing that.
An experienced and considerate sub will happily accept the kinky overlaps in our Venn diagrams. A shitty one will continue to push and demand and question your 'domme-ness' for not dispensing their exact kink.
I’m sorry, did you just say that maybe you should be grateful that this dude rubs his dick on your feet because some women don’t get foot rubs at all? The bar is in hell.🤣
Also, if this guy is grabbing you without consent even after you told him it triggers you then he’s a piece of shit.
I've only ever dated one person. Reddit comments have gone a very long way in assuring me I missed nothing by never experiencing the dating world in my youth and am in fact damn lucky that my one person is an excellent man, because yikes. This week I'll be thanking him for my penis-free foot massages.
Oh yeah, the very worst people are really good at getting around and gaming all the dating app algorithms. It's adverse selection in action. You didn't miss anything!!
Bwahahaha! I’d love to know his response to you thanking him for the penis-free foot massages!
Yeah, Reddit can be a really effective deterrent for anyone wondering what they might be missing out on
If you've chosen man over bear in this world, he better be a solid good man, not a "barely not even using my body for his own pleasure without caring about mine and opts in to do chores maybe... sometimes-ish?" man. And obviously, definitely not a user who doesn't pick up slack and wants a bang maid. The bar is low.
My bar is so fucking high. I'm actually happy with my man because I set the bar high and the bar will *stay* high. I've never wanted kids because I've always been afraid of being baby trapped by a shitty baby daddy. I actually want a kid now bc my man I found is a fucking amazing person who is good to his friends and good to his family. And they all keep each other in check. Also his mom and sisters in law are amazing and I get the vibe from them that they're all a good fam.
Imo, if you are a woman who wants a man and a family, find that courage to stand up for yourself and set your bar high. If he won't listen the first time you have a complaint about his shitty behavior, believe him, because he just showed you he won't change for you or try to be better for you.
Edit: to clarify, I also try every single day to make myself a better person for my partner. I don't think it's a one sided thing at all. He's good to me so I try my hardest to be a better person because I love him so much and he tries SO HARD to do the same. And I expect nothing less in a relationship.
This sub has some of the funniest/saddest stories. There's a fair chance you'll wake up to a dude rubbing his dick on your feet if you fall asleep on the subway...
True. My boyfriend gives me non-sexual massages and petting pretty much every evening, sometimes for hours. He expects nothing in return, I guess he just likes physical contact with me? Dont settle for less, sister.
Yeah, I totally get those too!
But if I am still and get just clitoral stimulation till ahhh!, then I feel it radiate down the center of my foot to my toes. And also feel euphoria in my feet, if that makes sense.
The best way I can describe it is like my feet were directly connected to my clitoris.
I've actually read that the areas of the brain that correspond to/'feel' the feet and the genitals are right next to each other. (Could be wrong and can't remember where I read it!)
Sadly, this flavor of male “submission” is pretty common. I call them “do-me subs”. They act like they want to be ones giving up control (submission) but what they really want is to have actions done to them (bottoming) in the way that they want it.
Straight dudes will pretty much never use the term bottoming, so many will consider themselves submissive, even though that’s not really what’s going on here.
Bottom line: what you want and what he wants doesn’t line up. And he’s being shitty and not even making an attempt to do what you’re into. Cut him loose, and find someone who actually meshes with you and your kinks.
Heh I'm basically a power bottom pillow princess. But I'm also dominant. I receive service and pleasure, my counterpart receives orders, praise or degradation, and also some service in return. I know my sub and I know what buttons to push to make him blissfully subby. So the service is actually reciprocal.
Hot take: It's totally okay to desire to lay down and have something specific done to you - but you are never entitled to that and should communicate that properly.
Yupppp. Communication is the key - I always say that unless we've talked about it hands off and clothes on, it's not happening. If you want a specific scene you need to negotiate that with your partner beforehand *and* accept if they say no to parts of the scene.
Yup. I've known deeply charming, gentle and lovely male subs; I've known some pushy, aggressive ones as well. It happens, regardless of gender. But these guys? They're an entirely different thing, and they almost uniformly approach their kink in a gross way.
They don't listen, because they don't care. They have a single focus and they pursue it relentlessly. Kick him out and move on, before a corner of your subconscious starts to build an association between acts of sweetness and acts of one-sided gratification.
That’s not what bottoming means. Bottoming means you’re the one being penetrated, regardless of what else is happening. Straight men are almost never bottoms, with the exception of those who enjoy being pegged.
What you really mean is that this behavior is not submission. It’s about the desire to be serviced. A man who wants a woman to ride him so he can lay back and relax is not being submissive and he’s definitely not bottoming.
It’s a form of domination — and also laziness, complete selfishness and total lack of regard for the lover. It’s laughable when people try to call men who want to be serviced ‘submissive’.
I disagree on terminology, but not on the spirit of what you’re saying.
A spanking bottom is the person getting spanked. A rope bottom is the person getting tied up. Neither of these things require any penetration, and the term bottom is still regularly used.
I do agree with you completely on the guys who are really just lazy and want their partner to do all the things.
Within larger BDSM community, topping = person providing sensation & bottoming = person receiving sensation. It can be on different axes from any power dynamics or sexual activities. So you can have non-sexual submissive, dominant or power neutral masochist, etc. Sex is common in BDSM, but not inherently associated with bottoming. The terms (top/bottom) are definitely used differently in heavily kink & BDSM communities that have a lot of straight & pan leaning folks than I see in gay men’s or lesbian communities.
Yeah, those are BDSM terms. Maybe they got appropriated from queer culture. You’ll also hear terms like impact top or rope top in the BDSM space. Generally the top is the person doing the action and the bottom is the person receiving the action.
The terms top and bottom originated in gay leather culture which was an intersecting culture of queer and kink. So really queer culture and non leather BDSM culture both appropriated the term from their love child lol
Idk I think bottoming can be disentangled from penetration. I've dated women where we referred to our particular roles scissoring as "bottoming" and "topping". I would consider that entirely distinct from "dominant" and "submissive". Closer description might be "active" and "passive" roles but I prefer the bottom/topping model. When I say that there are people who like to bottom "actively" while scissoring, most intuitively understand what I mean
IDK why but it seems like there's a lot of straight dudes that like their salad tossed and getting fingers in the butt or taint for a prostrate orgasm. Lots of them. I'm not saying this qualities them as bottoms.. butt still.
I've found a lot of guys who say they enjoy submission kink are actually very selfish. It's something that put me off taking dominant role with guys completely some time ago, because most of the time they didn't actually want *me* to take charge, they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them. Whenever I asked them to do something that wasn't their exact desire, they always acted shitty about it. Sometimes there was even a whole lot of passive aggressiveness too, they'd mope around and act so begrudging if I didn't hit exactly the right notes they expected from their fantasy. Ugh.
Yes, but that phrase doesnt even begin to capture the mind games he played on me for years. He worked on me for a long time until I wanted to die of guilt and shame for not being perfect.
YUP THIS IS EXACTLY IT . Wow I’m surprised this seems to actually not be as uncommon as I thought, but is reassuring in a way and everyone’s responses are really helping me reaffirm to myself that I shouldn’t accept the behavior!
It's far from uncommon, sadly. And I see a lot of women just sort of accept it because they think it's "the best I'll probably ever find." or, "At least he likes eating pussy".
Like, noooooo love yourself plz D:
> they didn't actually want me to take charge, they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them.
Thank you. I spent a while trying to put this into words, and you put it excellently. This is why men who label themselves as "submissive" have become kind of a turn-off for me. I've realized that men mean something completely different than I do when they talk about submissiveness. To me, it's a factor of which partner is taking the lead in the bedroom. To the men I've met, it's just a factor of different positions to have sex in. Them being tied to a chair/bed while telling me how to please them was the most frequent. Having me lie back and relax while they play with my body however *they* want was also pretty common. With the right partner, these can be fun activities too, but they're just about the exact opposite of "submission."
And they [top from the bottom](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top_from_the_bottom#English), too. And badly at that.
> *they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them*
They want you to be an unpaid sex worker. Or a [service top](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Service%20Top) ([alternative nsfw definitions](https://www.autostraddle.com/service-tops-bratty-bottoms-and-pillow-princesses-other-words-you-use-to-describe-how-you-have-sex-426800/)).
> *if I didn't hit exactly the right notes they expected from their fantasy*
I've saved some links from some kink/femdom subreddits (all of which are nsfw) that explain this. And how Mr Sub isn't really a sub and why real dommes hate the scene. If it is acceptable, I could link some when I get home from work.
1000% this. I wasn't really into BDSM until my ex came along. He then decided to tell me that I should lean into my "domme" era (he was one of these "submissive" men we're talking about in this post) because it would help heal my past sexual trauma and whoah what do you know: he's actually a sub! So it works out great! Isn't that such a perfect coincidence that I wanted to be a domme and found myself a sub? /s 🙄
Spoiler alert: no trauma was healed, he just gave me additional trauma, and now I have *so* much resentment towards being domme-like in any capacity whatsoever.
>Also it wasn't as cool and quirky as I thought it would be, just another hetero male-centric relationship type. "I like being dommy-mommy's little spoon, because I can feel her boobs on my face" Lmao that's just every typical hetero-men's desire.
I used to lurk the gentle fem-dom sub last year. I'm not surprised that femdoms are gradually leaving. Sub-men are entitled and think fem-doms are kink-dispensers and service-providers.
Yeah I've been increasingly more uncomfortable with the sub as a queer submissive woman. It feels really icky seeing the number of posts that are just grown men fantasizing about dating their mom. ;-;
Gentle femdom and role reversal are a joke 99% of the time. The guys are incel manchildren who want to be babied and contribute absolutely nothing to the relationship, while the women are enablers who worship men way too much. They take some of the worst parts of heteronormative relationships and then try to pretend it's empowering for women to take on all the responsibilities and labor while receiving nothing back. It's sad.
REAL. I have yet to see that type of relationship where the guy is the emotionally supportive one, nurturing and taking care of her, baking for her, pleasing her, and looking nice for her. It's always the woman taking on all the roles (breadwinner, housekeeper, all while sexually pleasing him too) and him sitting back and playing video games/looking at porn all day. Then they have the audacity to cry about how there aren't any *real* dominant woman...
Submissive men get to sexualize women nonstop and feel like they are supportive because they want to give their girlfriends foot rubs and call them queens. Nevermind the gross stuff they want to do to the feet in addition to giving them a rub. They think their partners like that stuff? It's just a sneaky way for them to be perverts and interject their fantasies into daily life.
The voice telling you you should be grateful is, respectfully, dumb. Don’t listen to her. She’s the same one who will tell you not to ask for a raise cuz you’re lucky to *have* a job, or to not send your salad back when it came out wrong. She’s also the one who tells you to laugh at sexiest jokes even though you’re uncomfortable. She’s the worst at advice.
If you want real advice, find someone who really does it for you in all aspects. Someone who makes you feel actually grateful to have them, not just like you *should* be grateful because other women might have it worse. Ditch the catho*lick* and find you a real acolyte.
Ugh, I call that voice that you just described “cool girl,” because she’s set an impossible standard for how I’m supposed to act as a woman. She usually yells at me to be emotionally detached, nonchalant, calm under pressure but also effortlessly hot. I hate her, but don’t like tell her that.
Yep. Many 'submissive' men want to use a dominant woman as a kink dispenser.
They don't actually want her to be in control. They want her to request the specific fantasies that they have.
>“I LIKE doing it *this* way though 😢😢😢”
Almost spit my coffee out at this line. Bruh. How is he gonna eat you out, in the way HE likes to eat you out???? That's like saying you'd suck his dick but only licking the left side because you prefer to lick the left side.
Also, how the fuck can he claim to be into "submission" & "goddess worship" but then talk back to his goddess when she tells him what to do?????
Omg. The stories I could tell. I could write a book!
Instead I'm a community educator and advocate, but unfortunately, these types of men are a massive majority and they all think they've invented selfish sex 😭
This is a form of benevolent sexism. I live in a creepy hippie town. When a man calls me goddess it’s an instant red flag. It’s just as dehumanizing as calling me a bitch. Calling a woman a Goddess implies that she has super powers. It takes her humanity away from her and objectifies her.
Most men have a very porn-ified idea about what it means to be submissive. They often mean that they want to be forced to provide oral sex, or that they want to be forced to wear women's clothing, or that they want to be forced to be anally penetrated.
And literally \*none\* of that is expressly submissive. Submissive means that he does what he's told to do.
Ask him where he learned about male submission, and what content he's been consuming on the subject, and you will probably discover that most or all of it just plain ol' porn.
It's not submissive, its making her act out his fantasies.
It's kind of ironic because one of the main purposes of fantasy is to let yourself of the hook shame wise for wanting what you want. Like suppose deep down he did want to wear women's clothes and finds that arousing, but that's shameful and unmasculine (to him) so he dreams up a scenario where he's *forced* to put on women's clothes in a sexual situation. I guess there's nothing he can do right? He just has to wear these women's clothes and have sex the way he dreamed about because this dom woman is making him, poor guy! Shame solved. In the fantasy he gets what he wants, but without ever acknowledging to himself that he wanted it in the first place.
And yet, to a person with a brain, this shouldn't apply anymore when he takes his fantasy out of his mind and into the real world and forces her to force him...
(No judgment on anyone for fantasizing or kink here lol that's great but yes judgement on op's husband for being a dick)
I'm not surprised. I've learned to start paying good attention to someone's actions when they feel the need to explicitly tell me what kind of person they are. It sets off mild alarm bells and that awareness has served me well.
Being relatively unfamiliar with that area of kink and just reading into the words used, "submission kink" to me says "I want you to do the work of pleasing me."
If he only wants what makes him happy, then he doesn't have a submission kink. Submission is about pleasing your partner. Trusting them to take control. He has a foot fetish and a degradation fetish, it sounds like.
Also, he's a total asshole. Especially when he does something that you tell him that you don't like. He's selfish and only cares about himself. Those foot rubs that you're 'grateful for' are also just for him. If he wanted to please you by rubbing your feet, he wouldn't make it sexual every freaking time.
>your foot rubs ALWAYS have to be sexual and he wants to rub himself on your feet halfway through
>I should be grateful, hey some women don’t even get foot rubs from their partner right
Holy fuck the bar is so low, this is depressing.
Lol it’s a pretty known phenomenon in the Femdom community - that quite often “submissive” men will treat the woman a a a kink dispenser.
And I say it as a dominant person - some male subs are phenomenal, but many were just ….entitled and acted like they never heard the word “no”.
Yep. I'm a femdom/switch and date exclusively kinky people. While not all male subs do this, everyone that does this is a male sub, in my experience. They want to be "submissive" , but only exactly how they want and turn me into a sex doll to satisfy their own fetishes with zero regard for my own preferences. I no longer date submissive men, I only date switches or women. Then I have to be careful of what I call "the ole bait and sub", where a sub pretends to be a switch but actually never switches, he only wants to sub.
Sexist men will be sexist regardless of whatever kinks they have.
If they view you as a sex object, then it doesn't matter if they want to be submissive (or "submissive" aka not even that) in bed because to them its all about THEIR PLEASURE and not yours.
I've had interactions with submissive guys that were great and others that weren't. The difference was that the goods ones were respectful in other areas. They saw women as people and not as a sex object.
This guy sucks...throw the whole man out.
Many times in my dating experience I have asked the guy what they enjoy in bed and they say "I like whatever makes my sexual partner feel good", only for them to be the most selfish people in bed.
These kinds of men hide their true sexual preferences by pretending they're all about your pleasure, when it's the complete opposite.
It's been a hard lesson for me to really pay attention to actions over words.
"I like to make it my partner's responsibility to validate me doing whatever the fuck I want to them. My ego can't handle anything else and I'll throw a tantrum if you like something besides what my ex-GF told me she liked."
This is what it means, 99 times out of 100.
It’s a mind fuck that you cant trust the words that come out of someone’s mouth lol. You always have to have in the back of your mind that this person may be outright lying to you. Like a complete pathological liar, and empty shell of a human … And that’s all these men do. Is fucking lie lie lie. Perform, lie, act and deceive. They’re so sick in the head.
Girl, I was a Pro Domme in college. Trust me, this is so fucking typical!! There were "service subs" in the kink scene - so guys who claimed they wanted to show their submissiveness by cleaning a pretty girl's apartment. My fellow dommes tried to warn me that it would be more effort than just cleaning my apartment myself, but I didn't believe them because I fucking hate cleaning.
Jesus Christ, these selfish dumbasses were *intentionally incompetent* at cleaning because they *like* being disgusting fuckups who impose their disgusting fuckup-ness on women. Inconveniencing and disgusting me was the whole point. Cleaning my apartment was just the lie they used to get me to let them into my life and spend time and attention on them.
They're misogynists who are simply too cowardly to try to pull the Andrew Tate "alpha" bullshit, because they know they'll get ripped apart. So instead, they try to couch it in "submitting" to women, while accomplishing almost the same thing (getting off on us feeling mislead, used, dirty, and complicit). Make no mistake, it comes from the very same place as the Andrew Tate shit.
There ARE men who are genuinely submissive in bed, the exact same way there are men who are dominant in a way that stays confined to bedroom playtime. But you have to trust your gut. When a guy gives you the ick, that's your intuition trying to tell you something.
We women will never cease to make ourselves uncomfortable, diminished, sick, forgotten, and in utter peril because some fucking choad tells us that he would prefer us if we did so.
It's unbearable.
I know - I lived that relationship for 20 years. But never again.
Ahem. So, no, you don't have to be grateful for foot rubs that involve a penis also rubbing on your feet because, hey, it's still a foot rub. You don't have to accept a ***single***. ***fucking***. ***thing***. that you don't want to, that is detrimental to you and your sense of agency, ever ever **EVER**.
>only to have them end up being some of the most selfish lovers ever? Lmao.
That's because they don't see us as a people.
They're basically masturbating into your vagina.
Sounds like my ex-husband. Unfortunately, I actually married him before realizing he liked the kink way better than he liked me. Being submissive (like my x) is actually the more powerful position because they hold the “stop” power and if they are the relationship leader, they require the kink be performed in the RIGHT way or they pout or get mad (or both). Can be very, very toxic. I mentioned he is my EX, right?
This!
And plenty of dom/dommes need aftercare, too. It's not just something for the sub.
No dominant has to participate in a scenario that makes them uncomfortable. Anyone that says otherwise is coercive.
Just pay for a massage that includes a foot massage, and get a vibrator for yourself.
I think this "worshipping" line is often a manipulation. I have experienced an ex who just tried to slip me into his "submissive" kinks but didn't like it when I acted like a human being with my own mind, instead of just performing his fantasy. It's not good sex if they don't care about you as a person and try to do what pleases you.
I think reading these stories is making me more asexual. Like, every time I read this, my ovaries start withering and my vagina just starts boarding up the windows. Closed for business over here, please send cats.
Lol shit are you dating my ex? He was just like that. He claimed to be submissive and wanted to worship me, but in reality, he only wanted his kinks done his way, including stuff that I expressed really did nothing for me. I'm not turned on by having my feet touched, but he loved it among some other stuff. Like I'm an open-minded person, and even if it doesn't light my fire, I'm happy to try stuff for a partner. Initially it was a good kinky time but pretty soon it ended up that we'd either do his things but nothing I wanted cause he'd tap out as soon as he got what he wanted (and obviously I'd never cross the line of consent) or he'd finally do something I liked and expect immediate reciprocation. I'm all for a man worshiping me, in the way that also turns *me* on, touching me where and how I like to be touched too. He got real shitty when I stood up for my wants and desires, and that was the end of that.
I'd say let the trash take itself out.
A lot of male subs come in with the mindset that they're out for what gets *them* off instead of actually being of service to their Dom. I've had pushy male subs who don't even care that I'm also a sub happily steamroll me and dump all the shit they want to do to me to 'worship' me when I don't even consent to that shit. Hell, my ex was this way and claimed he's a submissive 7 years into our relationship... He had no interest in any sexual acts that didn't interest him and basically was a pillow princess.
I’ve heard this from other female dommes and dominatrix friends - no one is more selfish than a self-professed “submissive” man. They can’t even get submission right!
Please leave this man. He does not care about consent if he can pressure or mope you into doing what he wants.
He touches your body how HE wants, and whines when you ask him to stop doing something you don’t like or that isn’t working for you.
THIS ALONE is reason enough to leave from a consent standpoint. EVER moping about things you reject in the bedroom is unacceptable and rape adjacent - he’s pressuring you and trying to guilt you into sex acts.
Seriously think about this, why is it ok??
If you want foot massages to not always lead to sex, he doesn’t get to decide, “Too bad, I want to put my dick on her every time!”
And throwing out consent, he doesn’t give a FUCK about you achieving orgasm. He wants to use your body for his fantasies of what he THINKS this particular kink is.
You told him to stop grabbing your vulva and he still does it!!
THIS IS SEXUAL ASSAULT!!
Please, no chances, no conversation. This person is violating you. He does not respect your right to withhold consent or advocate for yourself in the bedroom, and he does not care about pleasing you.
I don't know where this guy gets his info, but that doesn't sound like being a submissive nor 'worshipping you like a goddess'. A person who is properly into kink would be all about discussing wants/needs/boundaries/consent before sex, as well as checking with their partner(s) during and after sex to make sure all involved are safe and enjoying it. Probably 'learned' about kink from watching porn.
This is a well known issue in BDSM circles. I actually think the underlying problem has become more mainstream, because it's an issue of pornbrain, which has now shown up in traditional vanilla dating. For generations, men being sub to women was taboo, almost as bad as being gay, so a lot of guys lived 99.99% fantasy-in-their-head, and when they had a chance to try it out with a real woman, they dumped a lifetime of daydreams onto her.
Fast forward to today, and that's happening with all kinds of sexuality, not just malesub kink. Men have less real-life experience, but an enormous amount of virtual experience, usually molded by an industry that caters to male triggers, because men are more likely to pay for porn than women are.
If you like the general idea of being dominant and being served, I'd suggest you vet for guys who have been in relationships in real life where this was part of what they did together. Something that lasted at least six months, and they stayed over at each other's place. Guys who know what women look like when they are vulnerable and relaxed, and want to serve them even when they aren't wearing leather.
This type of dude is SO annoying. This is just some dude who likes femdom porn, not interested in true submission. Submission requires give and take, from both parties.
If everything doesn’t go exactly to the letter of the ridiculous script he wrote in his head, he throws a fit. Get rid of this fucking loser.
>like bruh what you’re eating MY pussy shouldn’t I be the one telling you what feels good?????
"You don't-a know what you want. Luigi know what you want." /s
OOOHHHH YES I’ve been through two of these chucklefucks. The emotional labor they put on me as the “dom”, constantly asking me what to do, setting a scene, etc. the decision fatigue to fulfill their fantasies was exhausting and half the time we’d agree on something only for it to be thrown out last minute on their terms. When some guys say they want to be submissive, they’re actually the ones in control.
Femdom here 🙋🏻♀️
A *disgusting* amount of men claim to be submissive but are actually just very selfish and have a degradation kink. If you run into men like this, call them on their bullshit immediately, each and every time they pull a stunt.
"I don't care what *you* want right now. I, YOUR GODDESS, want *this*. You can either touch me the way I CONSENT TO BE TOUCHED, or you can fuck off."
Absolutely DO NOT let them get away with being pushy, selfish, worthless pieces of shit by manipulating you into going along with what they want.
It either happens in a way that you are comfortable with OR IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.
This is why pro dommes make lots of money, lol, although they're unlikely to let their clients anywhere near their pussies. Anyone in the kink community is familiar with selfish erotic submissives who top from the bottom - it's kinda a trope:)
It's funny, though.
Mans not worshipping you. He thinks your body should be used for his sexual pleasure.
Much different kinks. If he cared about your pleasure he would eat your pussy however you asked without complaint. Well, excepting if his neck be getting stiff but that's a good while anyway.
What other red flags is this guy putting off.
I had an ex who was into ass worship but yeah.. it always had to be on his terms. I complained about it and apparently so did his ex.
My partner now puts out whenever I want and honestly I've never felt any resentment or manipulation from him when I've said I'm not in the mood.
Oof same. Dated a guy, well, was groomed by one. Usually he was the dom. I wanted to try being dom too and it was somehow worse bc I felt like he was so demanding and was still in charge of what we did.
Ugh.
This is probably super judgmental, but any guy that talks too flowery I get ick vibes right away from, I have never been with anyone that talks like that that follows it up with actual actions
Yikes. Throw that guy out like last week’s garbage. Life is too short for that kind of crap. Find yourself a guy who loves following instructions and does that well.
That kind of sub is well known in the kink community, yes. Some of us are genuinely affectionate, thoughtful, and keen to learn what our partner wants, but others are just horny fucking idiots with no depth, that desire a kink dispenser.
OP: Get yourself one of those foot massage machine things from Amazon. Then FREE YOURSELF from this self-absorbed AH. This is not kink; this is *he doesn't care about you.* Read up on BDSM; the onus is on HIM to take care of YOU, not the other way around. He is just a lazy POS.
It's the difference between a guy who actually sees you as a person with your own desires and a guy who sees you as an object onto which he can project *his* desires. He's worshipping his goddess, but you're just the most convenient available avatar.
That behavior is called 'topping from the bottom'. It's frowned upon by just about everyone in the scene. Call him out on it and if he won't act truly submissive then stop playing along.
Don't date a guy who just wants to use you like a Real Doll. There's no respect in any of this. There are guys out there who will give you a foot rub because they enjoy seeing your pleasure not because they have a foot fetish.
"At least I like some parts of being together" is not enough to keep dating a guy.
Doesn't sound like he submissive at all. He has certain kinks and he's demanding that you fulfill them. He wants everything done his way. That's not the definition of submissive.
Arguably the primary reason why people are submissive is because it can be a way to be sexual without feeling guilt, or responsibility for your own desires. You are giving up control to another person with the expectation that this person will then make you do all the things you want to do anyways, but now you don’t have to feel responsible for it.
In general terms, this is fine. BDSM can be mutually enjoyable, or even therapeutic for people who might otherwise struggle with sex. You still need a partner though who actually shares your preferences and actually wants to do the same things you do. A dominant never actually has control to do whatever they want, they have permission to do whatever both parties involved want. The only thing bdsm changes is the language in which these actions are discussed.
BDSM becomes a problem when either of the parties take the dynamic too seriously and forget this is a game. Usually we are talking about bad “dominants” here genuinely pushing their submissive limits. But your post is a good example for how things can go equally wrong with a submissive forgetting that they actually are still responsible for their own actions and that doms are not wish fulfilment machines. This is a very common problem, but one that definitely tends to go under-discussed, even within the scene.
Ooof if I said what I think about 99.9% of "kink" Id get banned. Oral sex where the man takes direction is just regular vanilla sex, oral sex where he gets to dictate the terms is just shitty patriarchal sex.
Yeah when I was a lot younger and a lot dumber I dated a guy who was a Christian but then realized he wanted to have sex instead. He claimed to be submissive and the whole shebang. Naturally he didn’t care to learn to be good in bed. When I was having legitimate health problems that kept us from sleeping together for a whole month he dumped me over a text.
Most of the men I've dated have been like this. They're attracted to women with dominant personalities because they're lazy and want her to do all the work, both in and out of bed, not because they're actually submissive. Same phenomenon as the stay at home husband who does little to no childcare or housework but brags about being a trophy husband. Our labor is always assumed.
He likes the idea of being dommed but really wants a dom mommy who'll focus on him.
Or he might be difficult on purpose to get punished, and he is incredibly bad at communicating this.
Men will say anything to get what they want. So many men claim to be loving and giving in the bedroom so that women will trust them. Please ditch this man. We're raised to be absolute doormats for men, and that's where the "I should be grateful" shit comes from. No, you should not be grateful for a foot rub even if it becomes sexual. You are worth so much and you deserve a partner or sexual partner who is compatible with you instead of one that harms you, even if the harm is mental and not physical. It's not ok that he grabs at your body even after being told not to. It's not ok that his sexual wants are more important than yours. It's not ok that he refuses to listen about what brings you pleasure. It's absolutely not ok that he turns foot rubs sexual. He is going against your consent and that is absolutely wrong. None of what you describe is acceptable.
You and your feelings and wishes matter. Please prioritize yourself and get rid of this gross, manipulative man.
Just had a little thing flare up with a guy friend who is a sub. He gave me the ick so fast, because he said a bunch of things that indicated red flags. This was just a timely thing for me to see!
Also, if you ever hear yourself telling yourself "you should be grateful" about a man, pause, break, back up, and say "HELL NO." You deserve better. Don't question yourself on things related to how men treat you.
I don't think this person actually knows what his kinks are and you should move on
A kink is only enjoyable if both persons are into it, and the non consensual part of this story is kind of scary
Oh god. Yeah I had a relationship with someone who was formerly a service sub? And I was like “ok cool”, cuz I used to domme, and I’m in a “someone’s going to take care of ME for once” phase. And….. nope. Despite all his big talk we ended up never doing anything kinky past our first week together. Then after that I just…. Took care of him? I’d cook and clean and try to help him progress in his life. But he eventually just completely stopped doing anything for me? And stopped self motivating? When I finally stopped initiating sex because I was sick of feeling unwanted and my self esteem was in the gutter, it became this whole ordeal about how he was never allowed to initiate with his old domme. If I got upset he’d just make big blinky puppy eyes at me. Like I guess his idea of being submissive was just being a big baby? idfk. But yeah… that’s it… I’m activating my switch powers and am going back to subbing. I’m over it.
His *fantasy* is that his kink is about worshipping you and giving you what you want, when in reality he's just using you as a kink vending machine. The fantasy also lets him getting off on being selfless, when he's really being self centered.
The moping is a coercive emotional manipulation strategy.
He doesn't respect you.
As someone who's been into kink for 15 years now and in touch with the scene for over 11 of them:
Most kinksters, independent of gender, haven't thought their own story through. The most prevalent example is the male "dom" who really just wants on-demand blowjobs with zero effort put in.
Similarly, you'll find more subs on every corner than one could **ever** count who are ever *soooo* submissive... as long as you do only and exclusively what they want.
These two examples and most others share that they come out in manipulative behaviour (like moping, whining, guilt-tripping, aggression, etc.) and that the idiot causing the drama tends to feel 100% correct in all they are doing.
These types are also the ones who *constantly* chime in on every debate about kink with completely unqualified, misguided and sometimes straight up dangerous ideas - and the ones who love trying to gatekeep kink.
We'd call your guy someone who "tops from the bottom" if we were being generous - which good-faith kinksters rarely are anymore because of all the bullshit. So instead I'll call him something far more accurate:
A selfish, immature crybaby who's exploiting the concept of kink for selfish sexual gratification.
And something about this needs to be heavily emphasized because a lot of women, especially ones not familiar with bdsm, are *far* too quick to forgive this behaviour:
A person treating another person like your guy does you, OP, is not in it for you. You are a tool to use for their desires and this approach to sexuality is inherently objectifying.
He's not giving you foot rubs for you. He's not even giving you foot rubs for the both of you and a fun time with sex.
He's giving you footrubs because *he* likes it and your feet are just there to cater to that.
OP, don't let this slide. Please take it from someone who's also familiar with what *healthy* engagement in kink looks like.
#This is not a healthy way to engage in kink.
ETA: I was so busy with that part, I almost forgot to mention **the sexual assault**. He's grabbing you without your consent. He's a predator and should be dumped as such.
I will never understand how watching your partner completely lose control isn't the most erotic thing ever to other people. Why would you not want to please them? How are folks (a lot of men but I'm sure there are others too) okay with doing things and knowing that their partner is just meh about the whole experience? Some people act like they could really take it or leave it (watching their partner's pleasure, I mean) and I really don't get iiiiiiit... 😭
yes my one ex and on top of that he dominated the relationship with constant manipulation gaslighting and abuse. so kink wise he was completely selfish and in real life definitely dominated over the relationship.
Oh no. In the kink community there is a stereotype of foot guys being like this. I've heard sex workers say they're some of the worst clients. Sounds like it's probably rooted in truth!
For the record, kinks do come in all flavors and there would be submissive men who would be actually submissive and get pleasure from the service, rather than trying to backseat drive like this guy. He's for the bin.
This isn't kink - this is a fetish, from what it sounds like. He needs something *specific* and he's not letting you actively participate. A kink should be about mutual enjoyment and consent. I've posted lewd content before on an alt and ran into people like this - they will beg and plead and try to emotionally manipulate you into giving in so they can use you to get off. It's disgusting.
Uh yeah no. He’s not a sub. He’s one of those pretenders trying to do what I’ve seen soooo many alleged subs do which is called “topping from below”. He’s not willing to relinquish control actually at all. It drives me fucking insane.
Omg yes, many men think they have a submission kink, but in my experience they don't really have a clue what this entails and turn out to be some of the most entitled men I've dealt with. Also, because of said kink, they often feel extremely ashamed once they do orgasm, which ends up making them even more difficult to deal with.
I was once with a supposedly submissive dude who got all bent out of shape when I tried to inform him that he wasn't actually rubbing my clit with my vibrator. Like, my dude, if I'm the goddess that you're worshipping, doesn't that include me knowing where my own clit is and getting to inform you about that?
Reading these comments has validated a large portion of my life. I (61F) have basically retired from the kink world but most of the "submissive" men I played with were truly not submissive and exhibited all of the traits mentioned in the comments. Except one. He was totally green, found me on Fet, asking to be trained. And train him I did for two years and then set him free because he was almost 30 years younger than I, and damn, I was just tired. I have fond memories of our times together and we still keep in touch. He's a wonderful young man.
But the other men truly were interested in a kink dispenser,
Did you date my ex? Because he was exactly like this (except I didn't get any foot rubs 😒). Had submissive and humiliation kinks, every single innocent non-intimate touch was a signal to him that sex could happen so it stopped being enjoyable to engage physically at all, if I wanted more loving and caring sex (or didn't want any *at all* ) I was pouted at and guilted into doing whatever kinky shit he wanted (but my interests weren't taken into account unless the aligned with his), pressured and coerced me many times into group sex encounters with strangers or poly living, got offended if I didn't want to fuck when he was unshowered or had just fucked someone else, and the list very much continues... but he said he wanted to worship a goddess so, that makes it all okay right?! /s
This is exactly why the "girls only go after assholes" exists: these men will be out here saying they're feminists, and that they're soooo giving in bed, and *her pleasure* comes first, and he loovvesss giving cunnilingus, and he wants to *worship his goddess* blah blah blah and then turn around and behave pretty much the exact opposite. At least with assholes you know what you're getting. You don't get your hopes up too high because it's clear who he is and what he wants, so when he's a selfish jerk it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere and that you were duped into the situation with false pretenses.
Yeah, this seems to be a pattern. He wants to engage in his kink HIS way, without comprehending the core belief that this specific one is meant to be about his partner. It's more of a praise kink mixed with control than an actual desire to be a good lover.
Holy shit I didn't realise how common this is. My ex done all that plus more. He also bought a massive dildo to fuck me with instead of using his own cock, I didn't want it. It was very painful and he wouldn't listen to my lack of consent, he'd just keep saying that he wanted to pleasure me. He was using me to live out his own fantasy and didn't actually give two shits about my pleasure.
I dated a man who treated me like a goddess - for about 4 weeks. He was such a giving and eager lover, until he got tired of the act. Ultimately what used to be exciting ended up turning into a chore. No foreplay, no lube, no cunnilingus. He'd often get upset with ME for being dry, after hours of mediocre pelvic thrusting. HOURS. And he had the audacity to tell me I should talk to my doctor about it. At the end he only wanted to do doggy style because he was attempting to just slip into anal. Again, with no lube.
He is doing something that's called "topping from the bottom". He is obviously dominating you because he either doesn't really want to be submissive or he is unsure how to enjoy it.
Maybe join a local BDSM group and see if some experienced Domina or Dom is willing to show him the ropes of actual submission, so that he can test if his kink is actually his kink or if he should label it something else for clarity. Doesn't have to involve sex stuff. Obviously, only with consent from all sides.
In your position I would only consider continuing this relationship, though, when he stops with the grabbing you did not consent to. This is not just an oversight from his part it's consciously ignoring your boundaries. Such people are unfit for any type of relationship or sex, BDSM or not.
I considered myself dominant-leaning until I absolutely had it from men like this and quit the kink community this year. Called themselves submissive, but didn't want to submit to me as a person but as their idea of a 'domme'. Like other comments reflect, it was the objectification-being reduced to what I can do for men, not being seen for the person I am (a visit to r/femdomcommunity shows screeds of entitled men wanting a domme when it's apparent they don't give a fuck about the person!!). It was also the notion that dommes are one-dimensional women, with a complete lack of recognition or respect for a) my needs and b) the fact that dommes are people and how people behave in relation with other people, especially in intimate relationships, varies from person to person. I also came to find the kink community quite objectifying even without being sexually involved, as I found myself being reduced to 'holy shit a domme!!' at munches from time to time. While I don't regret my time in kink in that it helped me mature and learn about myself, I found I developed a very jaded attitude towards cishet men - justifiable seeing the rest of these comments! It's so painful to have an intimate part of your selfexpression rejected in favour of a one-dimensional fantasy and an archetype that very few people exactly embody - as a direct result I refuse to get involved with kinky men these days. It's sad because I do think kink is a great way to explore sexual empowerment, but it depends on mutual, \*GENUINE\* respect.
Yes. I've heard this lumped in with Topping From The Bottom, but I think it's more of Ordering Off the Menu or Follow My Script behaviour. They "love women" as an abstraction or an object for their pleasure. There is no space in these sorts of performative fantasies for the actual, individual woman in the room. You're just temporarily occupying the role of Goddess. Warm fleshed shoved into a costume that a million others were shoved into first. It's a role they have written inside their own head, and they will enforce the script. His kink is about worshipping one specific, narrative and a narrow, warped idea of womanhood -- which wouldn't be so bad if *he knew it*, and could balance that sexual interest with respect for the individual woman -- but most of them I've met cannot pull off the Women Are Also People mental gymnastics required to just, like what they like, and not conflate what they like with objective truth about all women. I'd kick the guy to the curb and say if he needs someone who follows his exact script for sex all the time, and will not have a conversation about what actually satisfies them as an individual, then he needs to pay a sex worker and pay her well. He's looking for a performer and a service provider, not a partner. And yes, lots of submissive men have called me 'Not really a d/switch" for drawing this boundary and sending them packing. I just tell them real service cannot be defined solely by the servant, but Goddess energy is defined solely by the Goddess.
I think the term “kink dispenser” also applies here. The guy just wants his kink and nothing else. He’s not treating her like a partner, he’s treating her like an object that dispenses what he wants.
Yes! Thank you - Hadn't heard that one in a while but it's bang on. Women as vending machine is such a pernicious trap.
Ooh, I like that. I had a knock-down, drag out fight on Fet once where I could have used that. I pointed out this pattern of guys who go on and on about how good their oral game is, and how they just want to worship their queen for hours and hours and orgasm after orgasm. But that when push comes to shove it's all about them and their ego about be the best pussy-licker around. And if they happen to encounter a woman who doesn't orgasm easily from oral, or can only come once and then wants her partner to get the fuck off of her, then it's *her* problem for not doing it right. Not that I'm interested in topping, but it's to the point that if I see a profile that has even a hint of that kind of attitude, I immediately toss them on the trash pile.
>say if he needs someone who follows his exact script for sex all the time, and will not have a conversation about what actually satisfies them as an individual, then he needs to pay a sex worker and pay her well. I had a first date with a guy once who told me that he couldn't orgasm from any sex that was not the exact scenario of "pretend I am a vampire and have hypnotized you and you can't move or speak". And I was like that's a doll - you're describing a doll.
Or a corpse. Hope that encounter ended safely for you.
*oh my GOD* how did that not occur to me then? You're probably right and I'm so glad I stuck to my daytime coffee date rule for that dude.
[удалено]
Literally why I am going to demand a woman as a mortician post death, and will make sure my loved ones know my wish
This is so well put, thank you! I have come across men like this before and it’s so irritating
Wow, as a former domme, this is a fantastic breakdown. Kudos!
I call it domming from the bottom
I’d call it wanna-domming (which is its own thing) from the bottom.
Love this. Really well written
One interesting thing I read, it mightve been on reddit or part of a series... The sub is inherently in control of a healthy bdsm relationship because they draw the hard boundaries and get to say yes or no to things etc So even if someone is a sub, they can be a shitty sub as you described, trying to center themselves in every interaction
Yes. It's often discussed as a sub having the ultimate power because they can say no, and sometimes pushy/shitty subs can take advantage of that framing. Reality is both people can say No, at any time. Consent is Queen regardless of what side of the power exchange you're on. I have absolutely said No to subs. No, that is not something I perform. No, not something I find pleasure in. No, I'm not doing that. An experienced and considerate sub will happily accept the kinky overlaps in our Venn diagrams. A shitty one will continue to push and demand and question your 'domme-ness' for not dispensing their exact kink.
I’m sorry, did you just say that maybe you should be grateful that this dude rubs his dick on your feet because some women don’t get foot rubs at all? The bar is in hell.🤣 Also, if this guy is grabbing you without consent even after you told him it triggers you then he’s a piece of shit.
I’d rather be single and just pay for a foot massage periodically, thanks
I've only ever dated one person. Reddit comments have gone a very long way in assuring me I missed nothing by never experiencing the dating world in my youth and am in fact damn lucky that my one person is an excellent man, because yikes. This week I'll be thanking him for my penis-free foot massages.
Oh yeah, the very worst people are really good at getting around and gaming all the dating app algorithms. It's adverse selection in action. You didn't miss anything!!
Bwahahaha! I’d love to know his response to you thanking him for the penis-free foot massages! Yeah, Reddit can be a really effective deterrent for anyone wondering what they might be missing out on
Dang now I’m picturing a neon sign outside of a massage studio that says “penis-free foot massages”
Good foot massages are just hnnnng
Yes, Sis !
The bar is in hell. Ain't that the fucking truth.
Is it too late to choose a bear?
Not sure why people keep choosing men. Bear or not.
If you've chosen man over bear in this world, he better be a solid good man, not a "barely not even using my body for his own pleasure without caring about mine and opts in to do chores maybe... sometimes-ish?" man. And obviously, definitely not a user who doesn't pick up slack and wants a bang maid. The bar is low. My bar is so fucking high. I'm actually happy with my man because I set the bar high and the bar will *stay* high. I've never wanted kids because I've always been afraid of being baby trapped by a shitty baby daddy. I actually want a kid now bc my man I found is a fucking amazing person who is good to his friends and good to his family. And they all keep each other in check. Also his mom and sisters in law are amazing and I get the vibe from them that they're all a good fam. Imo, if you are a woman who wants a man and a family, find that courage to stand up for yourself and set your bar high. If he won't listen the first time you have a complaint about his shitty behavior, believe him, because he just showed you he won't change for you or try to be better for you. Edit: to clarify, I also try every single day to make myself a better person for my partner. I don't think it's a one sided thing at all. He's good to me so I try my hardest to be a better person because I love him so much and he tries SO HARD to do the same. And I expect nothing less in a relationship.
This is a bad time to realize that the bear has better lovemaking habits than OP's boyfriend.
The bar is in hell, and these dudes are doing the limbo with the devil.
And some will still try to limbo under it.
Alternatively, there is no bar
“I didn’t think the bar could get any lower, yet here you are, limbo dancing with Satan.”
I'd choose Satan over most of the guys I see posting in kink subreddits.
Yepp
This sub has some of the funniest/saddest stories. There's a fair chance you'll wake up to a dude rubbing his dick on your feet if you fall asleep on the subway...
I guess if you were into that, they wouldn't want to do it.
😳
Your avatar is also a perfect reply to this! 😂
That's basically what I look like.
True. My boyfriend gives me non-sexual massages and petting pretty much every evening, sometimes for hours. He expects nothing in return, I guess he just likes physical contact with me? Dont settle for less, sister.
I ... prefer no feet rubs, than having to endure a guy rub his junk on my feet 🤣😂
This comment has me dying of laughter. Too true
Kinda off topic: Does anyone else feel their orgasm in their toes when they have clitoral stimulation? No? Just me? Ok.
Not just you. Same. Toes and oddly enough my ankle area.
For me it’s all over the body, but mostly in the brain. Never felt the toes specifically though.
Yeah, I totally get those too! But if I am still and get just clitoral stimulation till ahhh!, then I feel it radiate down the center of my foot to my toes. And also feel euphoria in my feet, if that makes sense. The best way I can describe it is like my feet were directly connected to my clitoris.
I've actually read that the areas of the brain that correspond to/'feel' the feet and the genitals are right next to each other. (Could be wrong and can't remember where I read it!)
Sadly, this flavor of male “submission” is pretty common. I call them “do-me subs”. They act like they want to be ones giving up control (submission) but what they really want is to have actions done to them (bottoming) in the way that they want it. Straight dudes will pretty much never use the term bottoming, so many will consider themselves submissive, even though that’s not really what’s going on here. Bottom line: what you want and what he wants doesn’t line up. And he’s being shitty and not even making an attempt to do what you’re into. Cut him loose, and find someone who actually meshes with you and your kinks.
So they're power bottom pillow princesses. It's a mouthful, but does describe what they're seemingly after, no?
Heh I'm basically a power bottom pillow princess. But I'm also dominant. I receive service and pleasure, my counterpart receives orders, praise or degradation, and also some service in return. I know my sub and I know what buttons to push to make him blissfully subby. So the service is actually reciprocal. Hot take: It's totally okay to desire to lay down and have something specific done to you - but you are never entitled to that and should communicate that properly.
Yupppp. Communication is the key - I always say that unless we've talked about it hands off and clothes on, it's not happening. If you want a specific scene you need to negotiate that with your partner beforehand *and* accept if they say no to parts of the scene.
Awwww, the bit about knowing him and his buttons was so sweet ❤
Love that term!
Yup. I've known deeply charming, gentle and lovely male subs; I've known some pushy, aggressive ones as well. It happens, regardless of gender. But these guys? They're an entirely different thing, and they almost uniformly approach their kink in a gross way. They don't listen, because they don't care. They have a single focus and they pursue it relentlessly. Kick him out and move on, before a corner of your subconscious starts to build an association between acts of sweetness and acts of one-sided gratification.
Hehe, *bottom* line
I like you
That’s not what bottoming means. Bottoming means you’re the one being penetrated, regardless of what else is happening. Straight men are almost never bottoms, with the exception of those who enjoy being pegged. What you really mean is that this behavior is not submission. It’s about the desire to be serviced. A man who wants a woman to ride him so he can lay back and relax is not being submissive and he’s definitely not bottoming. It’s a form of domination — and also laziness, complete selfishness and total lack of regard for the lover. It’s laughable when people try to call men who want to be serviced ‘submissive’.
I disagree on terminology, but not on the spirit of what you’re saying. A spanking bottom is the person getting spanked. A rope bottom is the person getting tied up. Neither of these things require any penetration, and the term bottom is still regularly used. I do agree with you completely on the guys who are really just lazy and want their partner to do all the things.
Are those BDSM terms? Because I'm in the queer community (sapphic) and bottoming strictly means "receiving penetration."
Within larger BDSM community, topping = person providing sensation & bottoming = person receiving sensation. It can be on different axes from any power dynamics or sexual activities. So you can have non-sexual submissive, dominant or power neutral masochist, etc. Sex is common in BDSM, but not inherently associated with bottoming. The terms (top/bottom) are definitely used differently in heavily kink & BDSM communities that have a lot of straight & pan leaning folks than I see in gay men’s or lesbian communities.
These terms started in the Leather scene, gay kink culture. And spread into both the general queer culture and BDSM culture.
Yeah, those are BDSM terms. Maybe they got appropriated from queer culture. You’ll also hear terms like impact top or rope top in the BDSM space. Generally the top is the person doing the action and the bottom is the person receiving the action.
The terms top and bottom originated in gay leather culture which was an intersecting culture of queer and kink. So really queer culture and non leather BDSM culture both appropriated the term from their love child lol
Interesting, I've never heard them used in that way. TIL!
Idk I think bottoming can be disentangled from penetration. I've dated women where we referred to our particular roles scissoring as "bottoming" and "topping". I would consider that entirely distinct from "dominant" and "submissive". Closer description might be "active" and "passive" roles but I prefer the bottom/topping model. When I say that there are people who like to bottom "actively" while scissoring, most intuitively understand what I mean
IDK why but it seems like there's a lot of straight dudes that like their salad tossed and getting fingers in the butt or taint for a prostrate orgasm. Lots of them. I'm not saying this qualities them as bottoms.. butt still.
I've found a lot of guys who say they enjoy submission kink are actually very selfish. It's something that put me off taking dominant role with guys completely some time ago, because most of the time they didn't actually want *me* to take charge, they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them. Whenever I asked them to do something that wasn't their exact desire, they always acted shitty about it. Sometimes there was even a whole lot of passive aggressiveness too, they'd mope around and act so begrudging if I didn't hit exactly the right notes they expected from their fantasy. Ugh.
My ex used to do all of that and threaten to kill himself if I didn’t act out his perfect script. I didn’t even know you could be abused as a domme.
I think this is called "topping from the bottom"
Yes, but that phrase doesnt even begin to capture the mind games he played on me for years. He worked on me for a long time until I wanted to die of guilt and shame for not being perfect.
Yeah, threatening to kill himself obviously goes beyond just topping from the bottom and is straight up abuse.
YUP THIS IS EXACTLY IT . Wow I’m surprised this seems to actually not be as uncommon as I thought, but is reassuring in a way and everyone’s responses are really helping me reaffirm to myself that I shouldn’t accept the behavior!
It's far from uncommon, sadly. And I see a lot of women just sort of accept it because they think it's "the best I'll probably ever find." or, "At least he likes eating pussy". Like, noooooo love yourself plz D:
> they didn't actually want me to take charge, they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them. Thank you. I spent a while trying to put this into words, and you put it excellently. This is why men who label themselves as "submissive" have become kind of a turn-off for me. I've realized that men mean something completely different than I do when they talk about submissiveness. To me, it's a factor of which partner is taking the lead in the bedroom. To the men I've met, it's just a factor of different positions to have sex in. Them being tied to a chair/bed while telling me how to please them was the most frequent. Having me lie back and relax while they play with my body however *they* want was also pretty common. With the right partner, these can be fun activities too, but they're just about the exact opposite of "submission."
And they [top from the bottom](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top_from_the_bottom#English), too. And badly at that. > *they just wanted me to act out their very specific fantasy scenario for them* They want you to be an unpaid sex worker. Or a [service top](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Service%20Top) ([alternative nsfw definitions](https://www.autostraddle.com/service-tops-bratty-bottoms-and-pillow-princesses-other-words-you-use-to-describe-how-you-have-sex-426800/)). > *if I didn't hit exactly the right notes they expected from their fantasy* I've saved some links from some kink/femdom subreddits (all of which are nsfw) that explain this. And how Mr Sub isn't really a sub and why real dommes hate the scene. If it is acceptable, I could link some when I get home from work.
Oooh yes please share, I would love to read more!
Please do share!
It's interesting how this weird selfishness and mantrum behavior shows up EVERYWHERE with way too many men.
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1000% this. I wasn't really into BDSM until my ex came along. He then decided to tell me that I should lean into my "domme" era (he was one of these "submissive" men we're talking about in this post) because it would help heal my past sexual trauma and whoah what do you know: he's actually a sub! So it works out great! Isn't that such a perfect coincidence that I wanted to be a domme and found myself a sub? /s 🙄 Spoiler alert: no trauma was healed, he just gave me additional trauma, and now I have *so* much resentment towards being domme-like in any capacity whatsoever.
>Also it wasn't as cool and quirky as I thought it would be, just another hetero male-centric relationship type. "I like being dommy-mommy's little spoon, because I can feel her boobs on my face" Lmao that's just every typical hetero-men's desire. I used to lurk the gentle fem-dom sub last year. I'm not surprised that femdoms are gradually leaving. Sub-men are entitled and think fem-doms are kink-dispensers and service-providers.
Yeah I've been increasingly more uncomfortable with the sub as a queer submissive woman. It feels really icky seeing the number of posts that are just grown men fantasizing about dating their mom. ;-;
...who somehow has back bendingly enormous, and I mean massive, tits
omg its almost like men are all the same in almost every subculture and avenue of life...
Gentle femdom and role reversal are a joke 99% of the time. The guys are incel manchildren who want to be babied and contribute absolutely nothing to the relationship, while the women are enablers who worship men way too much. They take some of the worst parts of heteronormative relationships and then try to pretend it's empowering for women to take on all the responsibilities and labor while receiving nothing back. It's sad.
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REAL. I have yet to see that type of relationship where the guy is the emotionally supportive one, nurturing and taking care of her, baking for her, pleasing her, and looking nice for her. It's always the woman taking on all the roles (breadwinner, housekeeper, all while sexually pleasing him too) and him sitting back and playing video games/looking at porn all day. Then they have the audacity to cry about how there aren't any *real* dominant woman...
Submissive men get to sexualize women nonstop and feel like they are supportive because they want to give their girlfriends foot rubs and call them queens. Nevermind the gross stuff they want to do to the feet in addition to giving them a rub. They think their partners like that stuff? It's just a sneaky way for them to be perverts and interject their fantasies into daily life.
The voice telling you you should be grateful is, respectfully, dumb. Don’t listen to her. She’s the same one who will tell you not to ask for a raise cuz you’re lucky to *have* a job, or to not send your salad back when it came out wrong. She’s also the one who tells you to laugh at sexiest jokes even though you’re uncomfortable. She’s the worst at advice. If you want real advice, find someone who really does it for you in all aspects. Someone who makes you feel actually grateful to have them, not just like you *should* be grateful because other women might have it worse. Ditch the catho*lick* and find you a real acolyte.
Ugh, I call that voice that you just described “cool girl,” because she’s set an impossible standard for how I’m supposed to act as a woman. She usually yells at me to be emotionally detached, nonchalant, calm under pressure but also effortlessly hot. I hate her, but don’t like tell her that.
Wouldn’t dream of it! I know exactly how she can be.
Internalized misogyny
That’s the bitch!
Yep. Many 'submissive' men want to use a dominant woman as a kink dispenser. They don't actually want her to be in control. They want her to request the specific fantasies that they have.
>“I LIKE doing it *this* way though 😢😢😢” Almost spit my coffee out at this line. Bruh. How is he gonna eat you out, in the way HE likes to eat you out???? That's like saying you'd suck his dick but only licking the left side because you prefer to lick the left side. Also, how the fuck can he claim to be into "submission" & "goddess worship" but then talk back to his goddess when she tells him what to do?????
I almost wanna bark at these douche canoes through the screen! "BAD BOY! BAD! Go sit in the corner and be silent!"
Omg. The stories I could tell. I could write a book! Instead I'm a community educator and advocate, but unfortunately, these types of men are a massive majority and they all think they've invented selfish sex 😭
This is a form of benevolent sexism. I live in a creepy hippie town. When a man calls me goddess it’s an instant red flag. It’s just as dehumanizing as calling me a bitch. Calling a woman a Goddess implies that she has super powers. It takes her humanity away from her and objectifies her.
A pedestal is a kind of cage
Most men have a very porn-ified idea about what it means to be submissive. They often mean that they want to be forced to provide oral sex, or that they want to be forced to wear women's clothing, or that they want to be forced to be anally penetrated. And literally \*none\* of that is expressly submissive. Submissive means that he does what he's told to do. Ask him where he learned about male submission, and what content he's been consuming on the subject, and you will probably discover that most or all of it just plain ol' porn.
It's not submissive, its making her act out his fantasies. It's kind of ironic because one of the main purposes of fantasy is to let yourself of the hook shame wise for wanting what you want. Like suppose deep down he did want to wear women's clothes and finds that arousing, but that's shameful and unmasculine (to him) so he dreams up a scenario where he's *forced* to put on women's clothes in a sexual situation. I guess there's nothing he can do right? He just has to wear these women's clothes and have sex the way he dreamed about because this dom woman is making him, poor guy! Shame solved. In the fantasy he gets what he wants, but without ever acknowledging to himself that he wanted it in the first place. And yet, to a person with a brain, this shouldn't apply anymore when he takes his fantasy out of his mind and into the real world and forces her to force him... (No judgment on anyone for fantasizing or kink here lol that's great but yes judgement on op's husband for being a dick)
And not even *good* porn. It's porn completely catered to a male gaze and many, many femdoms in the industry are pushing back against it.
> or that they want to be forced to wear women's clothing 🤔🏳️⚧️ (Been there, done that, figured out some things about myself)
I'm not surprised. I've learned to start paying good attention to someone's actions when they feel the need to explicitly tell me what kind of person they are. It sets off mild alarm bells and that awareness has served me well. Being relatively unfamiliar with that area of kink and just reading into the words used, "submission kink" to me says "I want you to do the work of pleasing me."
If he only wants what makes him happy, then he doesn't have a submission kink. Submission is about pleasing your partner. Trusting them to take control. He has a foot fetish and a degradation fetish, it sounds like. Also, he's a total asshole. Especially when he does something that you tell him that you don't like. He's selfish and only cares about himself. Those foot rubs that you're 'grateful for' are also just for him. If he wanted to please you by rubbing your feet, he wouldn't make it sexual every freaking time.
^ this right here ^
A professional foot massage isn’t that expensive. Lose the selfish sub.
>your foot rubs ALWAYS have to be sexual and he wants to rub himself on your feet halfway through >I should be grateful, hey some women don’t even get foot rubs from their partner right Holy fuck the bar is so low, this is depressing.
Right? I would rather be alone. The description of him rubbing himself on her feet.....yuck.
Lol it’s a pretty known phenomenon in the Femdom community - that quite often “submissive” men will treat the woman a a a kink dispenser. And I say it as a dominant person - some male subs are phenomenal, but many were just ….entitled and acted like they never heard the word “no”.
Yep. I'm a femdom/switch and date exclusively kinky people. While not all male subs do this, everyone that does this is a male sub, in my experience. They want to be "submissive" , but only exactly how they want and turn me into a sex doll to satisfy their own fetishes with zero regard for my own preferences. I no longer date submissive men, I only date switches or women. Then I have to be careful of what I call "the ole bait and sub", where a sub pretends to be a switch but actually never switches, he only wants to sub.
Sexist men will be sexist regardless of whatever kinks they have. If they view you as a sex object, then it doesn't matter if they want to be submissive (or "submissive" aka not even that) in bed because to them its all about THEIR PLEASURE and not yours. I've had interactions with submissive guys that were great and others that weren't. The difference was that the goods ones were respectful in other areas. They saw women as people and not as a sex object. This guy sucks...throw the whole man out.
Many times in my dating experience I have asked the guy what they enjoy in bed and they say "I like whatever makes my sexual partner feel good", only for them to be the most selfish people in bed. These kinds of men hide their true sexual preferences by pretending they're all about your pleasure, when it's the complete opposite. It's been a hard lesson for me to really pay attention to actions over words.
"I like to make it my partner's responsibility to validate me doing whatever the fuck I want to them. My ego can't handle anything else and I'll throw a tantrum if you like something besides what my ex-GF told me she liked." This is what it means, 99 times out of 100.
It’s a mind fuck that you cant trust the words that come out of someone’s mouth lol. You always have to have in the back of your mind that this person may be outright lying to you. Like a complete pathological liar, and empty shell of a human … And that’s all these men do. Is fucking lie lie lie. Perform, lie, act and deceive. They’re so sick in the head.
Girl, I was a Pro Domme in college. Trust me, this is so fucking typical!! There were "service subs" in the kink scene - so guys who claimed they wanted to show their submissiveness by cleaning a pretty girl's apartment. My fellow dommes tried to warn me that it would be more effort than just cleaning my apartment myself, but I didn't believe them because I fucking hate cleaning. Jesus Christ, these selfish dumbasses were *intentionally incompetent* at cleaning because they *like* being disgusting fuckups who impose their disgusting fuckup-ness on women. Inconveniencing and disgusting me was the whole point. Cleaning my apartment was just the lie they used to get me to let them into my life and spend time and attention on them. They're misogynists who are simply too cowardly to try to pull the Andrew Tate "alpha" bullshit, because they know they'll get ripped apart. So instead, they try to couch it in "submitting" to women, while accomplishing almost the same thing (getting off on us feeling mislead, used, dirty, and complicit). Make no mistake, it comes from the very same place as the Andrew Tate shit. There ARE men who are genuinely submissive in bed, the exact same way there are men who are dominant in a way that stays confined to bedroom playtime. But you have to trust your gut. When a guy gives you the ick, that's your intuition trying to tell you something.
We women will never cease to make ourselves uncomfortable, diminished, sick, forgotten, and in utter peril because some fucking choad tells us that he would prefer us if we did so. It's unbearable. I know - I lived that relationship for 20 years. But never again. Ahem. So, no, you don't have to be grateful for foot rubs that involve a penis also rubbing on your feet because, hey, it's still a foot rub. You don't have to accept a ***single***. ***fucking***. ***thing***. that you don't want to, that is detrimental to you and your sense of agency, ever ever **EVER**.
>only to have them end up being some of the most selfish lovers ever? Lmao. That's because they don't see us as a people. They're basically masturbating into your vagina.
Sounds like my ex-husband. Unfortunately, I actually married him before realizing he liked the kink way better than he liked me. Being submissive (like my x) is actually the more powerful position because they hold the “stop” power and if they are the relationship leader, they require the kink be performed in the RIGHT way or they pout or get mad (or both). Can be very, very toxic. I mentioned he is my EX, right?
Both partners have “stop” power. A safe word can be used by either partner.
This! And plenty of dom/dommes need aftercare, too. It's not just something for the sub. No dominant has to participate in a scenario that makes them uncomfortable. Anyone that says otherwise is coercive.
Amen! This should be said much more often!
Just pay for a massage that includes a foot massage, and get a vibrator for yourself. I think this "worshipping" line is often a manipulation. I have experienced an ex who just tried to slip me into his "submissive" kinks but didn't like it when I acted like a human being with my own mind, instead of just performing his fantasy. It's not good sex if they don't care about you as a person and try to do what pleases you.
I think reading these stories is making me more asexual. Like, every time I read this, my ovaries start withering and my vagina just starts boarding up the windows. Closed for business over here, please send cats.
I'll take bunnies, but otherwise, big same.
Submissive men and topping from the bottom. Name a more iconic duo.
Lol shit are you dating my ex? He was just like that. He claimed to be submissive and wanted to worship me, but in reality, he only wanted his kinks done his way, including stuff that I expressed really did nothing for me. I'm not turned on by having my feet touched, but he loved it among some other stuff. Like I'm an open-minded person, and even if it doesn't light my fire, I'm happy to try stuff for a partner. Initially it was a good kinky time but pretty soon it ended up that we'd either do his things but nothing I wanted cause he'd tap out as soon as he got what he wanted (and obviously I'd never cross the line of consent) or he'd finally do something I liked and expect immediate reciprocation. I'm all for a man worshiping me, in the way that also turns *me* on, touching me where and how I like to be touched too. He got real shitty when I stood up for my wants and desires, and that was the end of that. I'd say let the trash take itself out.
A lot of male subs come in with the mindset that they're out for what gets *them* off instead of actually being of service to their Dom. I've had pushy male subs who don't even care that I'm also a sub happily steamroll me and dump all the shit they want to do to me to 'worship' me when I don't even consent to that shit. Hell, my ex was this way and claimed he's a submissive 7 years into our relationship... He had no interest in any sexual acts that didn't interest him and basically was a pillow princess.
I’ve heard this from other female dommes and dominatrix friends - no one is more selfish than a self-professed “submissive” man. They can’t even get submission right!
Please leave this man. He does not care about consent if he can pressure or mope you into doing what he wants. He touches your body how HE wants, and whines when you ask him to stop doing something you don’t like or that isn’t working for you. THIS ALONE is reason enough to leave from a consent standpoint. EVER moping about things you reject in the bedroom is unacceptable and rape adjacent - he’s pressuring you and trying to guilt you into sex acts. Seriously think about this, why is it ok?? If you want foot massages to not always lead to sex, he doesn’t get to decide, “Too bad, I want to put my dick on her every time!” And throwing out consent, he doesn’t give a FUCK about you achieving orgasm. He wants to use your body for his fantasies of what he THINKS this particular kink is. You told him to stop grabbing your vulva and he still does it!! THIS IS SEXUAL ASSAULT!! Please, no chances, no conversation. This person is violating you. He does not respect your right to withhold consent or advocate for yourself in the bedroom, and he does not care about pleasing you.
I don't know where this guy gets his info, but that doesn't sound like being a submissive nor 'worshipping you like a goddess'. A person who is properly into kink would be all about discussing wants/needs/boundaries/consent before sex, as well as checking with their partner(s) during and after sex to make sure all involved are safe and enjoying it. Probably 'learned' about kink from watching porn.
This is a well known issue in BDSM circles. I actually think the underlying problem has become more mainstream, because it's an issue of pornbrain, which has now shown up in traditional vanilla dating. For generations, men being sub to women was taboo, almost as bad as being gay, so a lot of guys lived 99.99% fantasy-in-their-head, and when they had a chance to try it out with a real woman, they dumped a lifetime of daydreams onto her. Fast forward to today, and that's happening with all kinds of sexuality, not just malesub kink. Men have less real-life experience, but an enormous amount of virtual experience, usually molded by an industry that caters to male triggers, because men are more likely to pay for porn than women are. If you like the general idea of being dominant and being served, I'd suggest you vet for guys who have been in relationships in real life where this was part of what they did together. Something that lasted at least six months, and they stayed over at each other's place. Guys who know what women look like when they are vulnerable and relaxed, and want to serve them even when they aren't wearing leather.
This type of dude is SO annoying. This is just some dude who likes femdom porn, not interested in true submission. Submission requires give and take, from both parties. If everything doesn’t go exactly to the letter of the ridiculous script he wrote in his head, he throws a fit. Get rid of this fucking loser.
>like bruh what you’re eating MY pussy shouldn’t I be the one telling you what feels good????? "You don't-a know what you want. Luigi know what you want." /s
There are plenty who pretend or simply don’t understand but mostly they pretend
OOOHHHH YES I’ve been through two of these chucklefucks. The emotional labor they put on me as the “dom”, constantly asking me what to do, setting a scene, etc. the decision fatigue to fulfill their fantasies was exhausting and half the time we’d agree on something only for it to be thrown out last minute on their terms. When some guys say they want to be submissive, they’re actually the ones in control.
Femdom here 🙋🏻♀️ A *disgusting* amount of men claim to be submissive but are actually just very selfish and have a degradation kink. If you run into men like this, call them on their bullshit immediately, each and every time they pull a stunt. "I don't care what *you* want right now. I, YOUR GODDESS, want *this*. You can either touch me the way I CONSENT TO BE TOUCHED, or you can fuck off." Absolutely DO NOT let them get away with being pushy, selfish, worthless pieces of shit by manipulating you into going along with what they want. It either happens in a way that you are comfortable with OR IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.
This is why pro dommes make lots of money, lol, although they're unlikely to let their clients anywhere near their pussies. Anyone in the kink community is familiar with selfish erotic submissives who top from the bottom - it's kinda a trope:) It's funny, though.
Mans not worshipping you. He thinks your body should be used for his sexual pleasure. Much different kinks. If he cared about your pleasure he would eat your pussy however you asked without complaint. Well, excepting if his neck be getting stiff but that's a good while anyway. What other red flags is this guy putting off.
I had an ex who was into ass worship but yeah.. it always had to be on his terms. I complained about it and apparently so did his ex. My partner now puts out whenever I want and honestly I've never felt any resentment or manipulation from him when I've said I'm not in the mood.
Oof same. Dated a guy, well, was groomed by one. Usually he was the dom. I wanted to try being dom too and it was somehow worse bc I felt like he was so demanding and was still in charge of what we did. Ugh.
I've had this, where they wanted to worship me but I seemed to be doing everything. Just dump his ass, it's not worth the hassle
This is probably super judgmental, but any guy that talks too flowery I get ick vibes right away from, I have never been with anyone that talks like that that follows it up with actual actions
Men having "kinks" ranges from Boring AF to Dangerous. (Male) Entitlement is one hell of a drug.
Yikes. Throw that guy out like last week’s garbage. Life is too short for that kind of crap. Find yourself a guy who loves following instructions and does that well.
That kind of sub is well known in the kink community, yes. Some of us are genuinely affectionate, thoughtful, and keen to learn what our partner wants, but others are just horny fucking idiots with no depth, that desire a kink dispenser.
OP: Get yourself one of those foot massage machine things from Amazon. Then FREE YOURSELF from this self-absorbed AH. This is not kink; this is *he doesn't care about you.* Read up on BDSM; the onus is on HIM to take care of YOU, not the other way around. He is just a lazy POS.
It's the difference between a guy who actually sees you as a person with your own desires and a guy who sees you as an object onto which he can project *his* desires. He's worshipping his goddess, but you're just the most convenient available avatar.
Men like this are so gone off the deep end that they only see you as their kink dispenser. It’s like the ultimate level of selfishness
That behavior is called 'topping from the bottom'. It's frowned upon by just about everyone in the scene. Call him out on it and if he won't act truly submissive then stop playing along.
Don't date a guy who just wants to use you like a Real Doll. There's no respect in any of this. There are guys out there who will give you a foot rub because they enjoy seeing your pleasure not because they have a foot fetish. "At least I like some parts of being together" is not enough to keep dating a guy.
Doesn't sound like he submissive at all. He has certain kinks and he's demanding that you fulfill them. He wants everything done his way. That's not the definition of submissive.
Male subs are the worst - ask any domme (professional or not) and they’ll tell you.
Arguably the primary reason why people are submissive is because it can be a way to be sexual without feeling guilt, or responsibility for your own desires. You are giving up control to another person with the expectation that this person will then make you do all the things you want to do anyways, but now you don’t have to feel responsible for it. In general terms, this is fine. BDSM can be mutually enjoyable, or even therapeutic for people who might otherwise struggle with sex. You still need a partner though who actually shares your preferences and actually wants to do the same things you do. A dominant never actually has control to do whatever they want, they have permission to do whatever both parties involved want. The only thing bdsm changes is the language in which these actions are discussed. BDSM becomes a problem when either of the parties take the dynamic too seriously and forget this is a game. Usually we are talking about bad “dominants” here genuinely pushing their submissive limits. But your post is a good example for how things can go equally wrong with a submissive forgetting that they actually are still responsible for their own actions and that doms are not wish fulfilment machines. This is a very common problem, but one that definitely tends to go under-discussed, even within the scene.
Ooof if I said what I think about 99.9% of "kink" Id get banned. Oral sex where the man takes direction is just regular vanilla sex, oral sex where he gets to dictate the terms is just shitty patriarchal sex.
Yes, this is very, very common.
If his name is Mike, I think I dated him 😅
Do Me subs. Yuck.
ew why are you dating this specimen? anything without consent is assault so id get the f outta there
Yeah when I was a lot younger and a lot dumber I dated a guy who was a Christian but then realized he wanted to have sex instead. He claimed to be submissive and the whole shebang. Naturally he didn’t care to learn to be good in bed. When I was having legitimate health problems that kept us from sleeping together for a whole month he dumped me over a text.
Omg YES!! They are actually controlling, so definitely not really submissive. They suck.
So basically he has a kink where he likes to use you like a pre-programmed sex robot but has reframed it to you as a “worship” kink.
Most of the men I've dated have been like this. They're attracted to women with dominant personalities because they're lazy and want her to do all the work, both in and out of bed, not because they're actually submissive. Same phenomenon as the stay at home husband who does little to no childcare or housework but brags about being a trophy husband. Our labor is always assumed.
These are the men who learned about kink from 50 shades of grey and thought that was a normal dom/sub relationship.
yeah "nice guys" will always tell you this
He likes the idea of being dommed but really wants a dom mommy who'll focus on him. Or he might be difficult on purpose to get punished, and he is incredibly bad at communicating this.
Men will say anything to get what they want. So many men claim to be loving and giving in the bedroom so that women will trust them. Please ditch this man. We're raised to be absolute doormats for men, and that's where the "I should be grateful" shit comes from. No, you should not be grateful for a foot rub even if it becomes sexual. You are worth so much and you deserve a partner or sexual partner who is compatible with you instead of one that harms you, even if the harm is mental and not physical. It's not ok that he grabs at your body even after being told not to. It's not ok that his sexual wants are more important than yours. It's not ok that he refuses to listen about what brings you pleasure. It's absolutely not ok that he turns foot rubs sexual. He is going against your consent and that is absolutely wrong. None of what you describe is acceptable. You and your feelings and wishes matter. Please prioritize yourself and get rid of this gross, manipulative man.
Just had a little thing flare up with a guy friend who is a sub. He gave me the ick so fast, because he said a bunch of things that indicated red flags. This was just a timely thing for me to see! Also, if you ever hear yourself telling yourself "you should be grateful" about a man, pause, break, back up, and say "HELL NO." You deserve better. Don't question yourself on things related to how men treat you.
I don't think this person actually knows what his kinks are and you should move on A kink is only enjoyable if both persons are into it, and the non consensual part of this story is kind of scary
Oh god. Yeah I had a relationship with someone who was formerly a service sub? And I was like “ok cool”, cuz I used to domme, and I’m in a “someone’s going to take care of ME for once” phase. And….. nope. Despite all his big talk we ended up never doing anything kinky past our first week together. Then after that I just…. Took care of him? I’d cook and clean and try to help him progress in his life. But he eventually just completely stopped doing anything for me? And stopped self motivating? When I finally stopped initiating sex because I was sick of feeling unwanted and my self esteem was in the gutter, it became this whole ordeal about how he was never allowed to initiate with his old domme. If I got upset he’d just make big blinky puppy eyes at me. Like I guess his idea of being submissive was just being a big baby? idfk. But yeah… that’s it… I’m activating my switch powers and am going back to subbing. I’m over it.
His *fantasy* is that his kink is about worshipping you and giving you what you want, when in reality he's just using you as a kink vending machine. The fantasy also lets him getting off on being selfless, when he's really being self centered. The moping is a coercive emotional manipulation strategy. He doesn't respect you.
As someone who's been into kink for 15 years now and in touch with the scene for over 11 of them: Most kinksters, independent of gender, haven't thought their own story through. The most prevalent example is the male "dom" who really just wants on-demand blowjobs with zero effort put in. Similarly, you'll find more subs on every corner than one could **ever** count who are ever *soooo* submissive... as long as you do only and exclusively what they want. These two examples and most others share that they come out in manipulative behaviour (like moping, whining, guilt-tripping, aggression, etc.) and that the idiot causing the drama tends to feel 100% correct in all they are doing. These types are also the ones who *constantly* chime in on every debate about kink with completely unqualified, misguided and sometimes straight up dangerous ideas - and the ones who love trying to gatekeep kink. We'd call your guy someone who "tops from the bottom" if we were being generous - which good-faith kinksters rarely are anymore because of all the bullshit. So instead I'll call him something far more accurate: A selfish, immature crybaby who's exploiting the concept of kink for selfish sexual gratification. And something about this needs to be heavily emphasized because a lot of women, especially ones not familiar with bdsm, are *far* too quick to forgive this behaviour: A person treating another person like your guy does you, OP, is not in it for you. You are a tool to use for their desires and this approach to sexuality is inherently objectifying. He's not giving you foot rubs for you. He's not even giving you foot rubs for the both of you and a fun time with sex. He's giving you footrubs because *he* likes it and your feet are just there to cater to that. OP, don't let this slide. Please take it from someone who's also familiar with what *healthy* engagement in kink looks like. #This is not a healthy way to engage in kink. ETA: I was so busy with that part, I almost forgot to mention **the sexual assault**. He's grabbing you without your consent. He's a predator and should be dumped as such.
Topping from the bottom is a thing. Sounds boring. Why are you wasting your time with this guy?
I will never understand how watching your partner completely lose control isn't the most erotic thing ever to other people. Why would you not want to please them? How are folks (a lot of men but I'm sure there are others too) okay with doing things and knowing that their partner is just meh about the whole experience? Some people act like they could really take it or leave it (watching their partner's pleasure, I mean) and I really don't get iiiiiiit... 😭
yes my one ex and on top of that he dominated the relationship with constant manipulation gaslighting and abuse. so kink wise he was completely selfish and in real life definitely dominated over the relationship.
Oh no. In the kink community there is a stereotype of foot guys being like this. I've heard sex workers say they're some of the worst clients. Sounds like it's probably rooted in truth! For the record, kinks do come in all flavors and there would be submissive men who would be actually submissive and get pleasure from the service, rather than trying to backseat drive like this guy. He's for the bin.
This isn't kink - this is a fetish, from what it sounds like. He needs something *specific* and he's not letting you actively participate. A kink should be about mutual enjoyment and consent. I've posted lewd content before on an alt and ran into people like this - they will beg and plead and try to emotionally manipulate you into giving in so they can use you to get off. It's disgusting.
Uh yeah no. He’s not a sub. He’s one of those pretenders trying to do what I’ve seen soooo many alleged subs do which is called “topping from below”. He’s not willing to relinquish control actually at all. It drives me fucking insane.
Omg yes, many men think they have a submission kink, but in my experience they don't really have a clue what this entails and turn out to be some of the most entitled men I've dealt with. Also, because of said kink, they often feel extremely ashamed once they do orgasm, which ends up making them even more difficult to deal with. I was once with a supposedly submissive dude who got all bent out of shape when I tried to inform him that he wasn't actually rubbing my clit with my vibrator. Like, my dude, if I'm the goddess that you're worshipping, doesn't that include me knowing where my own clit is and getting to inform you about that?
Reading these comments has validated a large portion of my life. I (61F) have basically retired from the kink world but most of the "submissive" men I played with were truly not submissive and exhibited all of the traits mentioned in the comments. Except one. He was totally green, found me on Fet, asking to be trained. And train him I did for two years and then set him free because he was almost 30 years younger than I, and damn, I was just tired. I have fond memories of our times together and we still keep in touch. He's a wonderful young man. But the other men truly were interested in a kink dispenser,
Guys with foot kinks always give off creeper vibes. I think the whole submissive act is just a ploy to make people think they're not predators.
"submissive' men are the fucking worst
Did you date my ex? Because he was exactly like this (except I didn't get any foot rubs 😒). Had submissive and humiliation kinks, every single innocent non-intimate touch was a signal to him that sex could happen so it stopped being enjoyable to engage physically at all, if I wanted more loving and caring sex (or didn't want any *at all* ) I was pouted at and guilted into doing whatever kinky shit he wanted (but my interests weren't taken into account unless the aligned with his), pressured and coerced me many times into group sex encounters with strangers or poly living, got offended if I didn't want to fuck when he was unshowered or had just fucked someone else, and the list very much continues... but he said he wanted to worship a goddess so, that makes it all okay right?! /s This is exactly why the "girls only go after assholes" exists: these men will be out here saying they're feminists, and that they're soooo giving in bed, and *her pleasure* comes first, and he loovvesss giving cunnilingus, and he wants to *worship his goddess* blah blah blah and then turn around and behave pretty much the exact opposite. At least with assholes you know what you're getting. You don't get your hopes up too high because it's clear who he is and what he wants, so when he's a selfish jerk it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere and that you were duped into the situation with false pretenses.
Yeah, this seems to be a pattern. He wants to engage in his kink HIS way, without comprehending the core belief that this specific one is meant to be about his partner. It's more of a praise kink mixed with control than an actual desire to be a good lover.
girl where are your standards this is gross
Uuuuuggggh, this makes me appreciate being single.
Sounds like he worships you as an object and not a person.
Holy shit I didn't realise how common this is. My ex done all that plus more. He also bought a massive dildo to fuck me with instead of using his own cock, I didn't want it. It was very painful and he wouldn't listen to my lack of consent, he'd just keep saying that he wanted to pleasure me. He was using me to live out his own fantasy and didn't actually give two shits about my pleasure.
He needs to go back to the trashcan he came out of
I dated a man who treated me like a goddess - for about 4 weeks. He was such a giving and eager lover, until he got tired of the act. Ultimately what used to be exciting ended up turning into a chore. No foreplay, no lube, no cunnilingus. He'd often get upset with ME for being dry, after hours of mediocre pelvic thrusting. HOURS. And he had the audacity to tell me I should talk to my doctor about it. At the end he only wanted to do doggy style because he was attempting to just slip into anal. Again, with no lube.
Sounds exactly like an ex of mine lol
He is doing something that's called "topping from the bottom". He is obviously dominating you because he either doesn't really want to be submissive or he is unsure how to enjoy it. Maybe join a local BDSM group and see if some experienced Domina or Dom is willing to show him the ropes of actual submission, so that he can test if his kink is actually his kink or if he should label it something else for clarity. Doesn't have to involve sex stuff. Obviously, only with consent from all sides. In your position I would only consider continuing this relationship, though, when he stops with the grabbing you did not consent to. This is not just an oversight from his part it's consciously ignoring your boundaries. Such people are unfit for any type of relationship or sex, BDSM or not.
I considered myself dominant-leaning until I absolutely had it from men like this and quit the kink community this year. Called themselves submissive, but didn't want to submit to me as a person but as their idea of a 'domme'. Like other comments reflect, it was the objectification-being reduced to what I can do for men, not being seen for the person I am (a visit to r/femdomcommunity shows screeds of entitled men wanting a domme when it's apparent they don't give a fuck about the person!!). It was also the notion that dommes are one-dimensional women, with a complete lack of recognition or respect for a) my needs and b) the fact that dommes are people and how people behave in relation with other people, especially in intimate relationships, varies from person to person. I also came to find the kink community quite objectifying even without being sexually involved, as I found myself being reduced to 'holy shit a domme!!' at munches from time to time. While I don't regret my time in kink in that it helped me mature and learn about myself, I found I developed a very jaded attitude towards cishet men - justifiable seeing the rest of these comments! It's so painful to have an intimate part of your selfexpression rejected in favour of a one-dimensional fantasy and an archetype that very few people exactly embody - as a direct result I refuse to get involved with kinky men these days. It's sad because I do think kink is a great way to explore sexual empowerment, but it depends on mutual, \*GENUINE\* respect.