im not sure if this would impact ucsd at all given it is a public school and not as reliant on donations as private schools, but I feel like a class of 2024 statement that we will never donate to the school as alumni f it doesn't divest could be impactful. older alumni could sign it too. all efforts are on the encampment right now, but perhaps if it gets shut down this could be a less risky but still visible form of protest.
If not for UCSD's financial aid, I probably wouldn't be able to attend college. Stop it with causes that cause collateral damage to random bystanders and target people with actual power
Did you know that similar kinds of sit-in/occupying protests happened in the 80s, against apartheid, as well? My dad was in the US for grad school and remembers walking past a bunch of students doing exactly that in protest of apartheid.
Would you have condemned those protests as well?
No, because Israel is not an apartheid state. In Israel, which is 20% Arab, Palestinians, Bedouins, and Druze serve in the armed forces willingly and are hailed as heroes, and everyone has full religious freedom. Arabs are able to be doctors and lawyers, Arab women are allowed freedom, and because LGBTQ people are not pushed from rooftops in Israel, many gay Palestinians flee to seek amnesty in Israel.
(By the way, 2/3 of Israeli Jews are Middle Eastern Jews, displaced from their homes by Muslim ethnical cleansing. So it's sometimes hard to even tell Jews and Palestinians apart. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1779lm7/jewish\_population\_in\_arab\_countries\_before\_and\_now/)
This is not sufficient to disprove allegations of apartheid.
It's funny you don't mention the West Bank or Gaza at all, which Israel is the de facto occupying power over. For example, Palestinians have their freedom of travel heavily restricted via checkpoints. There's even roads that are restricted to West Bank settlers, that Palestinians can't use! This is just the tip of the iceberg, since there's too much to talk about, ranging from the constant expropriation of private Palestinian land by the State of Israel to the constant harassment of Palestinians by the IDF ([see for example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Eyad_al-Hallaq) the time an Israeli cop shot an unarmed autistic Palestinian man and was subsequently acquitted by an Israeli court of all crimes, or the time [the IDF shot an unarmed Palestinian Jewish convert with his hands on his head](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Ben_Avraham))
Why do you think so many of the Israeli Jews being pursued by the Israeli police yell "don't shoot, I'm Jewish"? Must be because of the awesome equality going on between Jewish ppl and Arabs going on in that country, right? [https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/) [https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2014-12-02/ty-article/.premium/dont-shoot-hes-jewish/0000017f-e37d-df7c-a5ff-e37ff9470000](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2014-12-02/ty-article/.premium/dont-shoot-hes-jewish/0000017f-e37d-df7c-a5ff-e37ff9470000)
If you want to learn more and see a stronger argument for Israel being an apartheid state, you can look at the extensive report written by [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) here. But for some reason I feel as though you are not arguing in good faith and will continue to parrot the "Israel is totally treating Palestinians equally, look we even have a few Arabs in the army" talking point.
None of your arguments suggest Israel is an “apartheid state”. There are more Arabs living peacefully in Israel than there are Jews in the entire rest of the Middle Eastern countries combined. That is a relatively new phenomenon.
>There are more Arabs living peacefully in Israel than there are Jews in the entire rest of the Middle Eastern countries combined.
Besides the assertion that Arabs have nothing to complain about in Israel, it seems like you are conveniently glossing over the 4.5 million Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank, over which Israel is the de facto occupying power. You know, the main reason why people say Israel is committing apartheid.
>None of your arguments suggest Israel is an “apartheid state”.
I provided multiple examples, such as the segregated roads and the restriction of travel for Palestinians specifically (an element of apartheid). I even linked in the previous comment a comprehensive report from Human Rights Watch arguing that Israel is committing apartheid, using the definition provided in the 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.
What even is your argument? You are simply sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "la la la i can't hear you"
West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel therefore the Arabs that live there are not Israeli citizens. Gaza is not occupied by Israel. They left in 2005. Gaza is governed by a terrorist organization called Hamas. They don’t want a normalized relationship with Israel. Its charter calls for destruction of Israel.
> West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel therefore the Arabs that live there are not Israeli citizens.
What part of "Israel is an occupying power over West Bank and Gaza", do you not understand? Why do you think the official name for the West Bank and Gaza is the "Occupied Palestinian Terrorities"?
Even if they are not legally citizens of Israel, they are in practice under Israel's rule (in West Bank it is an explicit military occupation, in Gaza it is a blockade that cuts them off from the rest of the world). That is what people are calling apartheid rule.
> Gaza is not occupied by Israel. They left in 2005.
The blockade Israel imposes on Gaza makes them an occupying power. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN agree on this.
As [Amnesty's](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/007/2009/en/) report puts it:
> Israel is the occupying power in the Gaza Strip. In 2005, as part of what it termed “disengagement” from Gaza, Israel removed its settlements and settlers. Yet despite the redeployment of its troops in 2005, the Israeli army has retained effective control over the Gaza Strip. Israel maintains sole control of Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and does not allow any movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza via air or sea. Israel also
continues to exercise a degree of control over Gaza’s border with Egypt and Israeli officials have repeatedly made it clear that this border can only be reopened within the framework of a joint agreement with the Palestinian Authority and Egypt.Israel also continues to control electricity, water and
telecommunications in Gaza. It has regularly conducted raids in Gaza, often arresting “wanted” men; and carrying out so-called “targeted killings”, in air instrikes which have claimed a high toll on civilians.
You make a valid point. Notice how the UCSD incels have no response to this. They’re too busy thinking they’ll get chicks by supporting Hamas on campus.
They’re not doing anything wrong by just sitting there. We should work with them and bring back sun god https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/comments/1cj3c2r/heres_how_to_bring_back_sun_god/
The problem is not the protesters (although they are breaking the law because they are unlawfully occupying private property), it's the people that get in fights with the protesters. It's inevitable as long as there are two sides to this argument, and idk about you but if firecrackers start exploding on library walk I will call the police to remove everyone regardless of their allegiance. Divestment only creates a moral victory for these protesters, the investments will be scooped up by corporation much less willing to negotiate in the event they are released. Actual Palestinians will find nothing but more people angry at them because the people who claim to represent them keep inconveniencing others.
You have contributed nothing to the discussion, please actually refute my point or ask what needs to be clarified instead of expressing simple anger at your own lack of understanding.
True, but my point is unchanged by that fact. In public universities large and well-traveled paths can become a public forum space, however discretion is still given to the university to restrict access to it or remove/arrest outsiders for trespassing (https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/access-public-property#). For students, as stated in the email, encampment is restricted under the campus policy (https://adminrecords.ucsd.edu/PPM/docs/516-10.3.html) which (I believe) is agreed upon by the students when they enroll into UCSD. These principles guarantee the illegality of the actions of the protesters, however it seems only outsiders can be actually arrested because of the nature of the property.
Why is UCSD filled with such pro hamas protesters now? I get that it’s college and you protest wars there, as they always have, but protesting Vietnam or Iraq wasn’t blatantly supporting terrorists. Not like israel is much better, but try getting laid instead of being so socially awkward and camping out on campus. Try living at SDSU like I did when I went to UCSD. You’ll meet people who are socially adjusted and hook up with 9s instead of a UCSD 5 (a 2 to everyone else).
Dude the vietnam protesters literally were accused of supporting the Viet Cong, in the same way you currently accuse student protesters of supporting terrorists. Student protesters have always been on the right side of history (notice how you paint vietnam and iraq protesters in a good light). Try listening to students instead of replying to the 8th thread in the last 10 minutes
Student protestors have not always been on the right side of history. Ever heard of the Red Guard? Do you know students protested against integration in the civil rights movement?
You’re trolling, right? Hamas is a terroristic authoritarian dictatorship. These pro-Hamas supporters want that to replace the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
lol for one they use civilian human shields and rape kill their prisoners of war on video and other terrorist methods…Google it if you are really clueless
What great lengths? Sleeping in a tent? Get a grip. These are overly emotional children that presume their every emotional spike to be the status quo and the only right thing to do. Marines sleep in the literal dirt, rain or shine, just to do their job, every week of the month. Just saying.
im not sure if this would impact ucsd at all given it is a public school and not as reliant on donations as private schools, but I feel like a class of 2024 statement that we will never donate to the school as alumni f it doesn't divest could be impactful. older alumni could sign it too. all efforts are on the encampment right now, but perhaps if it gets shut down this could be a less risky but still visible form of protest.
If not for UCSD's financial aid, I probably wouldn't be able to attend college. Stop it with causes that cause collateral damage to random bystanders and target people with actual power
Did you know that similar kinds of sit-in/occupying protests happened in the 80s, against apartheid, as well? My dad was in the US for grad school and remembers walking past a bunch of students doing exactly that in protest of apartheid. Would you have condemned those protests as well?
No, because Israel is not an apartheid state. In Israel, which is 20% Arab, Palestinians, Bedouins, and Druze serve in the armed forces willingly and are hailed as heroes, and everyone has full religious freedom. Arabs are able to be doctors and lawyers, Arab women are allowed freedom, and because LGBTQ people are not pushed from rooftops in Israel, many gay Palestinians flee to seek amnesty in Israel. (By the way, 2/3 of Israeli Jews are Middle Eastern Jews, displaced from their homes by Muslim ethnical cleansing. So it's sometimes hard to even tell Jews and Palestinians apart. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1779lm7/jewish\_population\_in\_arab\_countries\_before\_and\_now/)
This is not sufficient to disprove allegations of apartheid. It's funny you don't mention the West Bank or Gaza at all, which Israel is the de facto occupying power over. For example, Palestinians have their freedom of travel heavily restricted via checkpoints. There's even roads that are restricted to West Bank settlers, that Palestinians can't use! This is just the tip of the iceberg, since there's too much to talk about, ranging from the constant expropriation of private Palestinian land by the State of Israel to the constant harassment of Palestinians by the IDF ([see for example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Eyad_al-Hallaq) the time an Israeli cop shot an unarmed autistic Palestinian man and was subsequently acquitted by an Israeli court of all crimes, or the time [the IDF shot an unarmed Palestinian Jewish convert with his hands on his head](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Ben_Avraham)) Why do you think so many of the Israeli Jews being pursued by the Israeli police yell "don't shoot, I'm Jewish"? Must be because of the awesome equality going on between Jewish ppl and Arabs going on in that country, right? [https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/) [https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2014-12-02/ty-article/.premium/dont-shoot-hes-jewish/0000017f-e37d-df7c-a5ff-e37ff9470000](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2014-12-02/ty-article/.premium/dont-shoot-hes-jewish/0000017f-e37d-df7c-a5ff-e37ff9470000) If you want to learn more and see a stronger argument for Israel being an apartheid state, you can look at the extensive report written by [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) here. But for some reason I feel as though you are not arguing in good faith and will continue to parrot the "Israel is totally treating Palestinians equally, look we even have a few Arabs in the army" talking point.
None of your arguments suggest Israel is an “apartheid state”. There are more Arabs living peacefully in Israel than there are Jews in the entire rest of the Middle Eastern countries combined. That is a relatively new phenomenon.
>There are more Arabs living peacefully in Israel than there are Jews in the entire rest of the Middle Eastern countries combined. Besides the assertion that Arabs have nothing to complain about in Israel, it seems like you are conveniently glossing over the 4.5 million Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank, over which Israel is the de facto occupying power. You know, the main reason why people say Israel is committing apartheid. >None of your arguments suggest Israel is an “apartheid state”. I provided multiple examples, such as the segregated roads and the restriction of travel for Palestinians specifically (an element of apartheid). I even linked in the previous comment a comprehensive report from Human Rights Watch arguing that Israel is committing apartheid, using the definition provided in the 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. What even is your argument? You are simply sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "la la la i can't hear you"
West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel therefore the Arabs that live there are not Israeli citizens. Gaza is not occupied by Israel. They left in 2005. Gaza is governed by a terrorist organization called Hamas. They don’t want a normalized relationship with Israel. Its charter calls for destruction of Israel.
> West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel therefore the Arabs that live there are not Israeli citizens. What part of "Israel is an occupying power over West Bank and Gaza", do you not understand? Why do you think the official name for the West Bank and Gaza is the "Occupied Palestinian Terrorities"? Even if they are not legally citizens of Israel, they are in practice under Israel's rule (in West Bank it is an explicit military occupation, in Gaza it is a blockade that cuts them off from the rest of the world). That is what people are calling apartheid rule. > Gaza is not occupied by Israel. They left in 2005. The blockade Israel imposes on Gaza makes them an occupying power. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN agree on this. As [Amnesty's](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/007/2009/en/) report puts it: > Israel is the occupying power in the Gaza Strip. In 2005, as part of what it termed “disengagement” from Gaza, Israel removed its settlements and settlers. Yet despite the redeployment of its troops in 2005, the Israeli army has retained effective control over the Gaza Strip. Israel maintains sole control of Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and does not allow any movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza via air or sea. Israel also continues to exercise a degree of control over Gaza’s border with Egypt and Israeli officials have repeatedly made it clear that this border can only be reopened within the framework of a joint agreement with the Palestinian Authority and Egypt.Israel also continues to control electricity, water and telecommunications in Gaza. It has regularly conducted raids in Gaza, often arresting “wanted” men; and carrying out so-called “targeted killings”, in air instrikes which have claimed a high toll on civilians.
You make a valid point. Notice how the UCSD incels have no response to this. They’re too busy thinking they’ll get chicks by supporting Hamas on campus.
Yeah fukk the admin all the way to the regents.
Join and support the encampment
We should work with them not against them https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/comments/1cj3c2r/heres_how_to_bring_back_sun_god/
They’re not doing anything wrong by just sitting there. We should work with them and bring back sun god https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/comments/1cj3c2r/heres_how_to_bring_back_sun_god/
I think canceling protected protestors from drunk people so idk maybe it’s worth it u never know what stupid drunk ppl might’ve done
Do the Jewish students feel safe?
students peacefully protesting for peace in Gaza has no reason to make them feel unsafe.
Oh, OK. Thanks for clearing that up.
The problem is not the protesters (although they are breaking the law because they are unlawfully occupying private property), it's the people that get in fights with the protesters. It's inevitable as long as there are two sides to this argument, and idk about you but if firecrackers start exploding on library walk I will call the police to remove everyone regardless of their allegiance. Divestment only creates a moral victory for these protesters, the investments will be scooped up by corporation much less willing to negotiate in the event they are released. Actual Palestinians will find nothing but more people angry at them because the people who claim to represent them keep inconveniencing others.
What the fuck are you talking about
You have contributed nothing to the discussion, please actually refute my point or ask what needs to be clarified instead of expressing simple anger at your own lack of understanding.
Theyre on public land not private property
True, but my point is unchanged by that fact. In public universities large and well-traveled paths can become a public forum space, however discretion is still given to the university to restrict access to it or remove/arrest outsiders for trespassing (https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/access-public-property#). For students, as stated in the email, encampment is restricted under the campus policy (https://adminrecords.ucsd.edu/PPM/docs/516-10.3.html) which (I believe) is agreed upon by the students when they enroll into UCSD. These principles guarantee the illegality of the actions of the protesters, however it seems only outsiders can be actually arrested because of the nature of the property.
Why is UCSD filled with such pro hamas protesters now? I get that it’s college and you protest wars there, as they always have, but protesting Vietnam or Iraq wasn’t blatantly supporting terrorists. Not like israel is much better, but try getting laid instead of being so socially awkward and camping out on campus. Try living at SDSU like I did when I went to UCSD. You’ll meet people who are socially adjusted and hook up with 9s instead of a UCSD 5 (a 2 to everyone else).
Dude the vietnam protesters literally were accused of supporting the Viet Cong, in the same way you currently accuse student protesters of supporting terrorists. Student protesters have always been on the right side of history (notice how you paint vietnam and iraq protesters in a good light). Try listening to students instead of replying to the 8th thread in the last 10 minutes
Student protestors have not always been on the right side of history. Ever heard of the Red Guard? Do you know students protested against integration in the civil rights movement?
Hamas is a terrorist organization, right?
No
Really? Are you that stupid?
The evidence overwhelmingly says that it is
What evidence? That they're waging war against an occupying force?
You’re trolling, right? Hamas is a terroristic authoritarian dictatorship. These pro-Hamas supporters want that to replace the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
Liberal democracy has a pretty shit track record if you think that the far right likud is somehow worthy of defense
Dang people have really become brainwashed to this level that they don’t think Hamas is comprised of terrorists
lol for one they use civilian human shields and rape kill their prisoners of war on video and other terrorist methods…Google it if you are really clueless
lol fool is obsessed w/ getting laid being the answer. Congrats on getting sum bro.
Have you ever tried it? lol, no. It balances you out. This fool needs a gf pronto.
Eventually peaceful protests either extinguish or become violent.
Or result in incredibly lasting civic change
Israel has the right to defend itself.
Which this one will not.
What great lengths? Sleeping in a tent? Get a grip. These are overly emotional children that presume their every emotional spike to be the status quo and the only right thing to do. Marines sleep in the literal dirt, rain or shine, just to do their job, every week of the month. Just saying.
Have you considered the marines?!? Touch grass