Hi, TommyShelbyPFB. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cranoe/-/) was removed from /r/UFOs.
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Greenwalds stance on LE has bordered on the obsessive over the last few years and certainly changed my view of his motives. I’ve followed John since he first emerged in this field in the 1990’s and thought his efforts admirable but the last couple of years I’ve wondered if he hasn’t been got at.
Learning about how government entities approached prominent crop circle researchers and offered to give them “real” information in exchange for disseminating fake information to their followers really changed the way that I see UFO personalities.
Greenewald is also the *unofficial* mouthpiece for DOD unclassified releases. So they can release **exactly** what they want to him and know that it will be re-disseminated en masse.
I have no clue what Greenwald’s financial situation is like or how lucrative his website is. Having said that, If we’re being honest with ourselves, everyone has a price. So yeah, if someone offered $5 million to be skeptical of Elizondo that would be pretty tough to pass up.
Anyone thinking that people like Elizondo and Grusch would so publicly state their case along with official filings if it wasn't mostly true are the insane ones, IMO.
Greenewald has always given off the weirdest vibes to me about Elizondo.
The *New York Times* vetted Elizondo him enough to run a front page story, but a guy who files FOIA requests needed to independently vet him for the UFO community to accept it?
Weird.
Greenwald has questioned Lue ever since he came forward. Even though mounting evidence says Lue worked where he says and when he says he did, greenwald just couldn't believe it. I'm glad he finally got the evidence he needed to convince himself. I was already a believer based on the previous evidence and Lue`s testimony.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB:
---
>*Elizondo has been at the center of controversy since he publicly claimed to have directed the AATIP, a program allegedly focused on studying unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP). His assertions have been consistently refuted by the Pentagon, which denies that Elizondo was ever assigned responsibilities within AATIP.*
>
>***However, the email chain in question, sent by Elizondo to Tipton the same day his first resignation letter was submitted when he retired from the Pentagon, was intended to clarify roles and transferred responsibilities within the AATIP. This seemingly contradicts the Pentagon’s stance on AATIP, Elizondo, and the role he may have played within the program.***
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cranoe/black_vault_john_greenewald_finally_admits_lue/l3wqr9s/
He should have learned by now that meticulous efforts were undertaken to hide this info from the public. All relevant data has been protected from FOIA via the private sector or is kept in a separate inaccessible record system. His apparent inability to understand that is suspicious.
Anything John Greenewald finds through FOIA is something the Pentagon wanted him to find.
Would be worth listening to David Grusch on Rohan’s podcast. He provides insight into the Skinwalker fiasco that goes well above ghost hunting and into how its creation required signatures that would make heads turn. Its perception is completely wrapped around the tales we’ve heard of it, but the government did not just hand a sum of money over for it blindly. It had a vested interest but internally was so politically divisive it led to its closure.
Yeah it seems like AATIP was grasping at straws, trying to get closer to the actual “program” and never succeeded.
Doesn’t necessarily mean there isn’t a there there. But it does seem like AATIP was never really involved and not really that important as far as disclosure goes. Unless I’m missing something, it seems like there is too much focus on Lue and AATIP. They don’t seem all that relevant tbh.
Yes. If it is real, the people behind the show *REALLY* did themselves & the phenomenon a disservice by sensationalizing the fuck out of it thereby undermining the Hell out of it. I too can’t trust any of those buffoons.
I’m with you. If their goal was to try to make a joke of the UFO phenomenon they succeeded.
I bet if asked they would probably admit that the show was a bad idea.
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Hi, TommyShelbyPFB. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cranoe/-/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 4: No duplicate posts. > Posts of the same footage, link, or news article may not be posted within sixty days of one another. New articles or previously unlinked footage may be posted at any time. If you have multiple videos of the same object, include them all in the same post, not as individual submissions. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
Greenwalds stance on LE has bordered on the obsessive over the last few years and certainly changed my view of his motives. I’ve followed John since he first emerged in this field in the 1990’s and thought his efforts admirable but the last couple of years I’ve wondered if he hasn’t been got at.
Learning about how government entities approached prominent crop circle researchers and offered to give them “real” information in exchange for disseminating fake information to their followers really changed the way that I see UFO personalities. Greenewald is also the *unofficial* mouthpiece for DOD unclassified releases. So they can release **exactly** what they want to him and know that it will be re-disseminated en masse.
I have no clue what Greenwald’s financial situation is like or how lucrative his website is. Having said that, If we’re being honest with ourselves, everyone has a price. So yeah, if someone offered $5 million to be skeptical of Elizondo that would be pretty tough to pass up.
This is a really good point. Shitty if true, but definitely a possibility.
Anyone thinking that people like Elizondo and Grusch would so publicly state their case along with official filings if it wasn't mostly true are the insane ones, IMO.
Greenewald has always given off the weirdest vibes to me about Elizondo. The *New York Times* vetted Elizondo him enough to run a front page story, but a guy who files FOIA requests needed to independently vet him for the UFO community to accept it? Weird.
Greenwald has questioned Lue ever since he came forward. Even though mounting evidence says Lue worked where he says and when he says he did, greenwald just couldn't believe it. I'm glad he finally got the evidence he needed to convince himself. I was already a believer based on the previous evidence and Lue`s testimony.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB: --- >*Elizondo has been at the center of controversy since he publicly claimed to have directed the AATIP, a program allegedly focused on studying unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP). His assertions have been consistently refuted by the Pentagon, which denies that Elizondo was ever assigned responsibilities within AATIP.* > >***However, the email chain in question, sent by Elizondo to Tipton the same day his first resignation letter was submitted when he retired from the Pentagon, was intended to clarify roles and transferred responsibilities within the AATIP. This seemingly contradicts the Pentagon’s stance on AATIP, Elizondo, and the role he may have played within the program.*** --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cranoe/black_vault_john_greenewald_finally_admits_lue/l3wqr9s/
So you're telling me Greenwald and Greenstreet were fooled by the powers that be? The true enemy of transparency is the MIC, always has been.
He should have learned by now that meticulous efforts were undertaken to hide this info from the public. All relevant data has been protected from FOIA via the private sector or is kept in a separate inaccessible record system. His apparent inability to understand that is suspicious. Anything John Greenewald finds through FOIA is something the Pentagon wanted him to find.
They are both spooks so choose carefully
AATIP and Elizondo are so tightly bound with the Bigelow nonsense at Skinwalker that I can't take any of it seriously.
Would be worth listening to David Grusch on Rohan’s podcast. He provides insight into the Skinwalker fiasco that goes well above ghost hunting and into how its creation required signatures that would make heads turn. Its perception is completely wrapped around the tales we’ve heard of it, but the government did not just hand a sum of money over for it blindly. It had a vested interest but internally was so politically divisive it led to its closure.
Yeah it seems like AATIP was grasping at straws, trying to get closer to the actual “program” and never succeeded. Doesn’t necessarily mean there isn’t a there there. But it does seem like AATIP was never really involved and not really that important as far as disclosure goes. Unless I’m missing something, it seems like there is too much focus on Lue and AATIP. They don’t seem all that relevant tbh.
Yes. If it is real, the people behind the show *REALLY* did themselves & the phenomenon a disservice by sensationalizing the fuck out of it thereby undermining the Hell out of it. I too can’t trust any of those buffoons.
I’m with you. If their goal was to try to make a joke of the UFO phenomenon they succeeded. I bet if asked they would probably admit that the show was a bad idea.
Wasn't that Fugal, not Bigelow?
Pentagon lied?? I'm having trouble believing that. At least we can still trust AARO and Kirkpatrick.
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