What puzzles me is that the so-called Galactic Federation implies the ET hypothesis. But after Grusch, many people went off on the interdimensional tangent. I am somewhat confused and don't know what to think.
Think about it. Both could be possible. There could be a Galactic Federation and some could possess the inter dimensional capabilities we’ve heard mentioned. We’re talking about an entire universe here.
We now think dark matter plus dark energy makes up 95% of the universe’s mass-energy content and we have no idea what it is.
If that is close to accurate, we should expect most life forms to be part of the dark matter-energy space apart from our own known mass-energy space.
It seems we are the ones existing in the backwaters of mass- energy and others would need advanced technology to pierce that divide and enter our weird realm of 4D existence where time only travels in one direction.
Dark matter is only theory because Astro physicists cannot explain what fills the void between celestial objects, gaseous clouds and other space debri . Thus a theory to quantify the lack of gravity in space, however not proven.
**Absolutely wrong.**
Dark matter is a thing because scientists have observed it effects. They have determined that galaxies couldn't spin as they do or be cohesive as they are without mass energy we cannot see affecting their gravitation/gravity. They can measure the halos around galaxies by using the math's to calculate a galaxies motion and it doesn't match without adding mass, so they effectively measure the amount of dark matter in the halos.
Dark energy is a thing because the expansion of the universe and it's acceleration hints at this sort of energy. There must be an energy that is driving that expansion that possess repulsive qualities (perhaps gravity but repulsive) *only over the largest scales*. We know gravity is exceptionally weak compared to the other fundamental forces, it is easily overpowered essentially and the same is assumed for dark energy. At filament level you see, within a local group it has no effect let alone a single solar system.
You could delve much deeper than this, but don't talk out your ass like that misleading people. These things match our observations. That doesn't mean 100% though - it could be some other thing driving this, but it seems without physics being scrapped there is no way to reconcile it other than these.
As per usual until we get one thing formally defined we can only use known analogy.
Not Q, Q is a species whose home is in some other "realm" or "dimension" of sorts.
You know how in Trek time travel, ETs, inter-dimensional, multiverse, weird sub and outer spaces, basically everything is true because it's been seen at least once? Even extra-galactic now?
The implication is that "in real life" more than one option appears to be valid, but we don't know which or how.
So extraplanetary seems to be basically a 'yes' but 'other' options or at least one is in play, but we don't know which, or nature of it--time, universe, multiverse, dimensions, realms, we don't even know the possible terms yet. But at least one other.
And really, we don't have any true concept of "interdimensional." We don't really know what it means, other than to say, "it's additional dimensions separate from the 4 we know."
It's crazy that we can differentiate between ET and Interdimensional when we really don't know what interdimensional really means.
We could have called gravity and electromagnetism's observed affects different dimensions. Perhaps there are "forces" we have yet to understand or identify.
For all we know, remote viewing, Astral Projecting, dark matter, dark energy, intuition, light being a particle and a wave, observing the universe expanding into (we don't know) is simply us accessing or observing other dimensions. We may be "interdimensional" beings and not know it.
Hell... we really don't know what gravity is. We can just observe and predict it's effects on time and matter. Gravity itself may be "interdimensional."
It's essentially a term we made up, that we have a definition for, but don't really comprehend.
ET and Interdimensional beings may ultimately be the same thing.
We've put far too much weight into the terms popularized by Physists who don't even believe NHI exist at all.
Interdimensional is a word in our lexicon.
It's like people who came back after NDE. They often say, "I can't put into words what I've experienced." There's no vocabulary to explain it accurately.
Am I insane / imagining things, but wasn't there once a leaked email from some high-level political appointee referencing some kind of "galactic federation" (but with some bizarre, very different, but analogous term) alongside some other group referenced as like "celestials" or something like that? And some reference to a weird/tricky/frustrating dynamic between earth and the other two? And that there was some local group of these "celestials" treating earth in a very uncommon way for reasons nobody would disclose to earth?
Lol maybe I'm misremembering and conflating a ton of stuff and never saw anything of the sort, who knows
I honestly think “inter dimensionality” is just the means by which these 3d world universe beings travel (and which brings a very bad semantic image of physics). Just that. We have never proved a fifth dimension, so unless we do it, I will stick to prosaic theories that can explain what appears to us “phased out”. And believe me, there are enough theories using old physics to go about traveling outside our space-time (still in 3D+time but outside the space/quantum vacuum medium, or manipulating it somehow like polarizing as I think Slavator Pais’s effect is all about).
Inter dimensional is from my understanding semantically wrong, yet I see everyone embracing it. And I think folk say it because even academic community started talking in those terms, further proving my point that people have forgotten the etymology of words.
These things matter
You are spot-on.
People use the concepts available to them that fit best. Most people are no physicists.
Funnily enough, there are better fitting concepts actually. "Different planes of existence" for example.
In order to interact easily, you have to occupy the same "sensory space" as your contactee.
Folks should look more often at i.e. how narrow the band of frequencies visible to human eyes actually is.
You need to be as fast/slow, of the same size, use the same "vibrations" (electromagnetic wave frequencies, sound waves, etc.) as them and so on.
Failing that, you might appear invisible or even inscrutable.
Such "distance" places you on another "plane of existence", without being anywhere different particularly.
>I honestly think “inter dimensionality” is just the means by which these 3d world universe beings travel (and which brings a very bad semantic image of physics). Just that. We have never proved a fifth dimension
Inter-dimensional is not the same as extra-dimensional. I think you mean "extra-dimensional".
What worries me is that there may be a Federation.
We talking Star Trek near-Utopian here, or the corrupt shit-storm that is *Mobile Suit Gundam* Federation?
We already live in Mobile Suit Gundam, dude. Politics, politics, politics, pretty young people, politics, politics, sometimes shit blows up. That's already here, man.
What if we are just quarantined to our own dimensional space because of reasons we are yet to know or understand. Personally our tendency towards violence isn't a good enough reason to isolate us. In my mind it's got to be something more. Reason we aren't hearing or seeing much out there is because there isn't much. All that kind of stuff, galactic federation etc, resides in other dimensions. We aren't really in a prison but instead behind a curtain. Once we understand how to get beyond that veil, we are welcomed or at least openly able to engage with these other beings and civilizations.
Just one of many ideas of what this all could be. Eshed said this federation and these beings have been waiting for humans to "reach a stage where we will understand... what space and spaceships are,"...
To me that's an insanely downplayed quote. We're clearly missing some big parts of the equation. Although our sciences help us to understand the basis of the Universe we are not able to test those ideas outside of a lab or theoretical construct. Like looking at a beautiful clock face as a layman and admirer and thinking, bet there's a bunch of gears and springs behind all that. Neat. Kinda correct but without the foggiest idea of how it actually works.
It's my hopes that part of this conversation rocks academia so hard that they are forced to get back out of their own friggin way. At 42 now single with no kiddos, I just want so badly to live long enough to see the shifts in real time.
46f, exactly the same, no kids, and thankful. I wanted to be a chemical engineer. I went to college just for that and I dropped out in year 3 to just work. I realized that I wasn't gonna be the one to change the ways that existed already. It wasn't anything I wanted a part of.
But other changes are happening already, the ones that are shifting inside heads and minds about who we are and what the whole picture may be. I see it in so many people around me. My religious mother now accepts the ideas that all her beliefs may have been just a human invention for control. At 83 she has shocked me, she reads as many books now as she can on this subject and has actually surpassed any reading I've done on it. She still tells me things about Skinwalkers at the Pentagon and can't wait for Lou's book!
My father is closer to the end. He's so saddened that he still just doesn't know what it's about. He's of the mentality that our government should be filling us in and he's mad that it's not happening and that he won't get to know what they are hiding. I told him he may be the one to know before any of us, especially since we are probably going to a place after here that's just another part of the big picture. It actually made him smile. As a scientist , he and mom divorced when I was young because of religion. He had made sure I had a well rounded education on the different ones out there and always believed the spirit was energy that won't die with the body, it will just transform.
He promised that he will fill me in if he can but there's places in this world that he didn't get to see that he may visit first, then he'd come haunt me when I least expect it lol. Totally the Dad I know!
Damn you have cool cherish the time you have left with them. It does seem like universally way more people are open to learning this topic/altering world view then there was a decade ago. I became fascinated off both these topics after I had near death in experience 11 years ago in college. While I am not an experiencer , learning/researching stuff about the phenomonon/spirituality changed the way I view the world.
Violence and low general enlightenment and low vibration fear-based societies absolutely seem like valid reasons that they'd believe humanity isn't ready yet. I think what humanity isn't getting yet is the spiritual side of things, that all life is interconnected at one level, and that on a deeper level all life is one, all life and all beings are nothing but extensions of source energy/the energy that created everything, and is everything.
Law of one changed my perspective on life and the whole UAP subject and explains how it is all related, along with all human history, religion and the weird metaphysical events that have been with us as a species since the very beginning.
Despite being a hard read with extraordinary claims if you can get through it all it is remarkably consistent with all the revelations coming out about the phenomenon. The biggest thing for me is that it provides the deeper "why" that is missing from every other attempt to explain the nature of reality.
I think it's the real truth that so many insiders keep referring to when they mention the spiritual nature of the phenomenon that people aren't ready for.
It also would be a completely valid reason for the cover up too, the ones in control of the truth don't think people can handle it... and they might be right about that.
https://www.lawofone.info/
What is the "why?" - I don't this idea that these NHI or higher beings somehow orchestrate our souls into being in these meat bags and have suffering and all that to achieve apotheosis....really?
I'm gonna try to tl;dr it but there is a lot more to it than this..
We are all part of the creator who created our separate consciousnesses with free will in order to experience itself and grow into higher levels of consciousness over many lifetimes. We choose our incarnations in order to provide the most needed lessons.
We can either grow more strongly in the direction of serving others (positive spiritual polarity) or service to our selves (negative spiritual polarity). All of life's challenges or opportunities we have chosen because they are the most relevant for growth.
The reason we don't remember the higher planes during our lives is because previous versions of experience without the forgetting were not as effective at learning and growing.
This universal cycle eventually resets back to the start once all consciousness has evolved back into unity. This has been repeating for infinity.
I mean here I am on a UFO subreddit and I have a wide open mind about whatever may be going on that may be beyond our understanding. With that said, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but just seems wild to me that this Non-Human Intelligence light years ahead of us is still holding onto and unionizing under Hamitonian Federalism in outer space or wherever else.
Yeah that’s what also bothers me, but iguess we could be seeing the term federation too humanly. Maybe federation is just the best term that we can understand without completely breaking our brains
I was thinking of a more mundane comparison. Like a Ferrari dealership and a used car lot both do the same things. But your experience at a Ferrari dealership is going to VERY different than a used lot.
Start with not listening to what other people are saying. Read up on case files that have actual data points and draw your own conclusions.
We can pick 5 different recent talking heads and have 5 completely different assertions about "what they know as fact". You'll get completely lost and burnt out listening to people. There's been some great investigations over the years, there's been a ton of government documents released that you could literally spend a lifetime going through. I know because I've been doing it for over 5 decades. I learned a long, long time ago to put virtually nothing into these types like Elizondo, Nolan or Nell. It's just the latest talking heads talking out their asses.
It's not either/or, and I can embrace both. If extraterrestrials live a thousand or a million light years away, wouldn't they try to invent interdimensional travel. Wormholes are not prohibited by Einstein's theory. You can have your cake and eat it, too.
That's because they're both simply made-up stories. Don't believe either of them, and you don't need to "know what to think", if you know *how* to think - and that means applying logic to these outlandish claims. They simply don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
If being transported as information, that gets materialized into, say, an avatar at your destination counts as "interdimensional travel", they certainly can.
What is so scary about that?
The possibilities are endless, crazy, and spooky. I can understand keeping it under wraps if true. Some people can’t handle it, hell, I don’t even know if I can but I guess we don’t have much choice if true.
More than one origin is long stated and implied. We have no idea what concepts are in possible play.
Make a list from fiction. One at least will be close enough and then apparently another, but you may be going down to religious myth, folklore, a novel from 1951 with three surviving copies… who knows.
But more than one is implied. If can be true so can three.
This is what always frustrated me. Grusch said he wouldn’t “rule out” interdimensional aspects of the craft.
Next thing you know everyone was all “the phenomena is 100% inter-dimensional, not ET”
When we use the word "interdimensional," we really don't know what that word means. People would say, "it's dimensions other than the 4 we know." What's consciousness? What's telepathy? How do we travel faster than the speed of the light? What's the universe expanding in to? What's dark matter? What's dark energy.
We don't REALLY know the difference between Interdimensional and our reality. Other than "weird," "spooky action at a distance," or "paranormal."
Can any human describe what another "dimension" looks like? No. They can't. It's all theory.
Entities that are extraterrestrial may have used "interdimensional" techniques to make their "travel." ET and dimensional beings may be the same thing. They're just using abilities akin to magic that we consider to be "interdimensional."
In the video, Hellyer claims that the U.S. government made a deal with extraterrestrials to conduct experiments on our people so they could make a hybrid being. However, the E.T.’s they were dealing with started going out of control with their experiments. I’m an experiencer and have seen one of these crafts, so I know they are real myself. The craft I saw was on the ground with my mother and sister. I also worked on Eglin Air Force Base when I was in the military and got to see where the government monitors these crafts at Site C6 on Eglin. Here’s a link to the site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglin_AFB_Site_C-6 . I’ve heard Chris Mellon mention it’s capabilities, but had never called it by name.
>Hellyer claims that the U.S. government made a deal with extraterrestrials to conduct experiments on our people so they could make a hybrid being.
Wasn't this literally the plot of the x files?
I was under the impression that Hellyer's entire position on the phenomena was formed after he left office and read "The Day After Roswell". He has never cited any evidence other than he believes everything in the book is true
He made his claims decades after he served as Defense Minister. He was caught up in conspiracy theory nonsense and likely experiencing age related cognitive decline
But while he was minister of defense, he was aware of UFO intrusions since NATO did a study and wrote a secret report on high speed high level mass fleets that set off alarms on radar as they were heading for England from SE Europe
Hellyer and the other guys are, in my opinion, prime examples for "don't believe them just because they held certain positions". There's nothing but wild stories of them, no proof, nothing that makes it believable. On the other hand, these stories just resemble too many old fictional works or conspiracies that it's more likely they just mixed stuff up and are... Old men confusing things.
Sometimes it makes sense, these guys should be NO authority whatsoever unless the guy on the street yelling about whatever conspiracy is also an authority.
Much of the X-Files was based on documented paranormal phenomenon. In this case, they just appropriated the theories of researchers like Karla Turner and David Jacobs.
I suggest people look into Hellyer. I did because I wanted to see what he did during his career etc. He has some pretty wild claims. But this is what ruined all confidence in him for me, and I think it should for everyone else too. Paul served his country and had retired, he and his wife were at his cottage and he was bored and pulled out Philip J Corsos book, that was given to him years earlier. He read it and instantly believed everything. He then used his connections and got a hold of... You guessed it, Steven Greer. Since that point he has followed the Linda moulton Howe path and gone straight off the deep end. He believes everything he hears or people tell him. He is not an expert in any Sense of the word. He did not have experience with UFOs or aliens during his political career. Do not believe what he says.
The fact that Karl Nell basically cited him (among others) in his Salt talk, leads me to believe this might just be a bunch of DOD guys in a circular spiral of reinforcing each other’s beliefs.
Yeah that would really be disappointing because there is something going on it would be a real bummer if these highly credentialed military officers with high clearances got bamboozled on a wild goose chase. And so we will still have people seeing black triangles, etc. and we will once again not get any answers as to what the hell is going on.
I remember doing this a while back and writing him off myself. And while it is more likely the case that he just got old and eccentric, I've also lately taken to not outright dismissing people's claims as default. Perhaps, while reading Corso's, he had more reason to believe it than we know. He was certainly in a position to be privy to knowledge the general public wouldn't. Maybe it connected dots for him. I know he said all his knowledge came about after his career.... But he would probably HAVE to either way. I get it, that's me reaching for straws to have it fit, and there is some reaaalllly wacky stuff being said. But, it also seems, overtime, that this shit IS really fuckin wacky(it would be wouldn't it?). Then I think about it in the context of WHY I think it's soo wacky. And think about the history and society I've grown up in. Which is to say, FULLY enmeshed in Hollywood and western media (aka the most powerful propaganda machine ever). It is known there are massive operations to manipulate people's opinions and outlook on things, and if it seems like "ok, but this is just TOO massive", keep in mind that, by it's very nature, we are probably not just dealing with human influence. I'm not saying "don't be skeptical", or planting my flag anywhere, but I think it would help a lot of us to also be AS skeptical of our OWN preconceived notions of what is possible/reasonable, and our default reactions(often outright incredulous dismissal), and WHY we might have them.
[People should go read his AMA from a few years back… It definitely raises some questions about his credibility.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/by7ipl/i_am_a_95_yo_former_canadian_minister_of_defense/)
And Eshed is just as problematic. I don’t know what to make of Nell mentioning these guys. He’s obviously an intelligent guy and well connected but there’s no way a smart person would take Eshed and Hellyer seriously
I’m not a Greer fan, but in the beginning, he did some good work. Nobody should deny that fact. Over the years, I believe he’s gone off the rails for some reason. Hellyer’s claims are pretty wild and I never thought they could possibly be true. I never believed in the “Reptilians “ or an alien base in the South Pole. That brings us to Nell. If he’s so revered and vouches for Hellyer and Eshed, what are we supposed to believe at this point because people like Nell and Grusch are trying to control the narrative? If you don’t believe Hellyer, you shouldn’t believe Nell either correct?
So, what, the Galactic Federation considers it legal to mock aborigines with underdeveloped civilization? Let's create a petition that we, the inhabitants of the Earth, are against all experiments on us and mistreatment of us. And we cancel all treaties our governments have with aliens. You can separate such a petition into a separate post.
They may see every animal as important to us, and if we test animals they can test us. In other words they are obeying our own logic and customs and doing nothing wrong.
But (almost certainly) at a different level of consciousness/awareness compared to a pig or cow.
It's about being mindful and trying to minimize the suffering you cause.
Plants have a differing consciousness structure, their biology has evolved to maximize reproductive rates and distributions, with fruits designed to
be consumed to spread seeds, and titanic success from a genetic standpoint in crop plants. We have genetically engineered plants to be more resilient to environmental conditions but we have engineered livestock animals to be fatter, tastier, and nigh completely ineffective at survival in the wild. Animals also have a greater degree of sensory and situational awareness, pain, fear, etc. there is a glaringly obvious difference in extent of harm done when deciding which to eat between plants and animals.
You are thinking along the lines of a materialistic universe that requires technology for such things.
Consider that the universe is actually a product of consciousness instead. You don’t need the tech if you understand how it works.
Why do you think the Blue Kona document outlined investigating consciousness as part of the reverse engineering?
There's a long, sordid history of humans experimenting on other humans. We don't even need to go into the animal kingdom to show hypocrisy on this thought experiment.
We are a developing civilization, and what was accepted in the recent past seems wild now. And what is accepted now will change in the future. Example. Back in the 70s in Switzerland, children were taken away from single mothers. Is this really wild? But now everything has changed. In general, we humans deserve respect and humane treatment in any case.
And then what? The advanced alien species that view us as experiment chimps are just going to, what, be okay with that?
That’s how we get a real Seven Hour war. Less time than that, more likely.
Give us a bill of rights!
That's the secret. Until we demand it, the aliens can do whatever they want. Just post it here.
Therefore, all this is kept a wild secret. Come on, quickly declare the rights of Earthlings.
This will be applied automatically as the "Miranda Rule".
OK OK. Then the petition must contain a clarification about the voluntary nature of participation in the experiments. Whoever wants to - let them participate.
I was the only person as far as I know that got to visit the site. However, I was not alone when I visited it. On some days we worked tandem with the Air Force security forces personnel some days and that is who I was with when I went to the site. I can tell you the Airmen I was with played football for some university in Colorado as a kickoff return guy and was a Jesuit Jew. I remember that because I had never heard of that religion. He kind of looked Hispanic. I can’t remember his name because it was in 2009. My entire MP unit was told when we arrived there at guard mount that “space junk” occasionally crashed in the waters surrounding the base and if we rode with the marine patrol that we might get to see some of it. This was told to my unit along with the security forces guys and to the contract security guards that worked on the base. I talked to a former radar technician that worked at Site C6 from 1981-1984 about them tracking UFOs when he worked at the site. He confirmed to me they tracked UFOs while he worked there.
It was an oval shape that looked exactly like a glowing fire. All I could think of was that it was going to burn us up. The next day when we went out to the field where it landed, it left a huge burnt circle on the ground. It had gotten closer to us from where we originally saw it. I was frozen and couldn’t stop stirring at it. My mom said that she got behind the end of the trailer because she saw it land and tried to hide. She made me get behind her and I kept trying to look around her to see it. I was scared of it. We had never talked about the incident until a few years ago. She thought I had forgotten about it. This happened in 1977. She also said people were coming up missing and anyone that reported it was put into psychiatric care. It wasn’t until I was on Eglin Air Force Base that caused me to remember the incident.
If you believe the Eisenhower story he made it a deal breaker for humans to be harmed in any way or not returned afterward to the place from which they were abducted.
Exactly! It sounds like our leaders sold us out and that is totally believable in my opinion if they thought they were going to capitalize off the ET technology advantage. They do it all the time when they send troops to made up wars.
I don’t think the government will ever come out and disclose anything, unless someone comes out and just says it.. and even then people may not believe it unless there’s proof in front of them.
Nell is part of the broadly understood government establishment and did make quite bold claims. And AFAIK, he has not been fired yet. Maybe it was his task to say the things he said.
Grusch has said that in an interview. They gave him a mission. Karl is Gruschs boss. Remember the slide Karl presented at the Sol foundation some time back, it looked like a pitch deck from some presentation he made to someone and had reused it at Sol. I added it to my notes
https://public.amplenote.com/bhsdRVwHti333KHj9yzBg5zi
Phase 0: 1933-2024 - disinformation - ridicule, secrecy, power, profit
Phase 1: 2024 - demonstrate Existence - hypothesis, reactive, acceptance ⬅️ you are here 🛸
Phase 2: 2026 - correlate signatures - persistent, forensic, academic acceptance
Phase 3: 2030 - characterize performance - proactive, predictive, public acceptance
Phase 4: 2034 - determine Nature - targeted, integrated, 5 Ws answered
Phase 5: Indefinite - engagement - interactive, scientific discovery, strategic end-state
You’re correct! The different agencies in the government, as well as, the president well never come out and admit they are powerless to stop them. They don’t like looking incompetent as we all know they are from previous actions. These former high ranking officials are enough for me to believe what they said after what I personally have seen firsthand.
That’s considering the presidents even actually know anything about that. Wouldn’t make sense to tell a ‘temporary employee’ any of the actual juicy secrets.
I thought what Haim Eshed said was considered BS. Everyone in r/ufos was saying it was BS a couple of months ago but not anymore. I don't understand the sudden change.
Hellyer and Eshad have both made a lot of false claims. The change is now that Karl Nell endorsed them during his interview.
Nell was viewed as one of those rock solid UFO influencers that would add credibility to the movement. Now that he's endorsed some questionable UFO enthusiasts the community is faced with a difficult choice: either accept that Nell is not that credible, or start believing the fantastic theories of Hellyer and Eshad as accepted part of the UFO lore.
Yep, this. Nell was hyped as an impossibly credible person and indeed seemed to be on paper. Like Hellyer, he didn't have any cool insight based off his life's work, but admitted he believes it because other people do. It's such a letdown that it's no wonder people don't know what to think.
Time and time again these last 8-9 years, people put all this credibility onto these personalities and end up disappointed.
What these people are saying needs to be taken just like your neighbor saying these things. You can listen but unless and until your neighbor gives you some hard evidence, you'd be insane to just take what they told you and run with it.
I don't get why people are treating Elizondo, Couthart, Nell or any other of these people any differently than that. Having a "good" resume, experience or education is irrelevent in this field. It's all about evidence and data. Hellyer, Edgar and Nell have never given any other than words.
For reference, my former doctor is an IU graduate. Practiced medicine for 45 years. Had all the plaques and references/schooling on his wall in his office. Dude constantly talked out his ass on social and political issues and eventually made a completely bogus medical call that caused me to bail and find someone more intelligent.
The point is giving credibility simply based on a perceived authority will fuck you 100% of the time especially when talking outside their areas of knowledge and even *within* their areas of knowledge at times.
If I had one piece of advice after my own 50+ years in this topic it would be to not blindly take someone's word just because they tick all your boxes on paper. This field is full of people talking out their asses.
Am I missing something? Nell offers no practical or personal or hidden knowledge, and his only references to data at all are conversations found on YouTube, and nothing from any private sources we’re unaware of. What good is his credentials if it’s based solely on YouTube?
Nope, you're not missing anything. That's really all there is to it. Either stuff from YouTube or "the lore" in general. To boot, the big reveal happened when he was addressing a question of if he *believes* NHI are here. If that belief is informed by his work directly, he didn't say so.
Combine that with the anti-science views some people have found him expressing online and yeah, there's disappointment all around.
Seemingly, he does associate himself with some stereotypical, heavily loaded conspiracy/right-wing talking point.
These range from anti-vaccine, to condescending remarks about the LGBTQ community, to denial of man-made climate-change.
Infos are mainly taken from his LinkedIn profile, where he “liked” such content.
See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxlqpl/comment/l55wqtx/), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxvzhx/comment/l55lwen/), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxj4f4/comment/l5la7zs/).
Make of that what you will.
Same with Hellyer too unless I’m mistaken. When Nell was asked what made him so certain that what he was saying was true and he referenced nothing but the what he had heard from Hellyer, Hashim, Elizindo etc I immediately lost interest; his bar for having “zero doubt” is way to low.
>his bar for having “zero doubt” is way to low.
I think this is what I dont get why people dont get it.
I guess its fine to believe whatever, or think whatever about anyone or anything, but these guys having "zero doubt" for the same stuff we have all seen and heard.
Theyre just like any rando believer here then.
Nothing wrong with that. _But_ it means exactly the same as anyone of us believing.
Like someone who believes anything, believes something. What weight that could have?
I know theres huge stigma in saying this, its all right, I dont mind. Its just that I hope people would still think a minute before attacking anyone saying it.
> *But* it means exactly the same as anyone of us believing.
There is a reason all of these guys are referred to with their military titles. It makes them sound more important and more credible. Sometimes the move goes even further and obscures the actual source unless you know enough. It sounds a lot more impressive to say "cabinet level mitary guys in Israeli and Canadian forces."
>It sounds a lot more impressive to say "cabinet level mitary guys in Israeli and Canadian forces."
Lol yeah. Follow UFOs long enough and we pretty much know who their talkin about when they obscure the source.
Puthofs and Davis et al been billed as every type of CIA and whatever type a guy at this point for example. Contractor and whatever else lol
"CIA insider" "CIA source" "CIA contractor" sounds pretty impressive, right? If they just said their names people would roll their eyes and know its the same looney tunes gang at it again.
But yeah, its pretty big bummer for me to realize its always just same stuff we have all seen/heard/read but just basically embellished to sound more important when its seen/heard/read by general or whoever.
Mr. Hellyer repeats extraordinary claims from people like Charles Hall, Steven Greer and Jaime Maussan with no further evidence than their say so. He does not seem like a credible source.
Hellyer credulously repeats UFO lore as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zI-8lYRb9M
* Finding 4 species of aliens at the North Pole
* UFOs landing in Russia but covered up
* People being on spaceships and other planets
* The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer
* There are 80 species of aliens including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites
* The Tall Whites pass as human and work with the USAF in Nevada (he cites Charles Hall's book *Millennial Hospitality*)
* Most species are benevolent but some might dangerous
* They come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli
* They also come from our own solar system
* From a planet called Andromedia(?) which is one of the moons of Saturn (I don't know if he meant the Andromeda *galaxy* but he said Andromedia several times and called it a moon of Saturn), and from Venus and Mars
* There is an alien Federation and they have a rule that is basically the Prime Directive from Star Trek
* They have given us a warning through various people (including two brothers from Peru who were teleported to Andromedia)
* They want us to take better care of each other and the planet and not use nukes
* They only work with people who are receptive to them
* We got a lot of our tech from them like LED lights and microchips and kevlar vests
* Interstellar war is possible
His source for all of this are people telling him about it, writing him letters and from reading books about people's claims. It just sounds like he believes everything anyone ever tells in him about aliens.
He also wrote the Foreword for the book *Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom* which has this description on Amazon:
> Ted Mahr, a gifted psychic, channeled Messages From the Masters which contains profound messages of wisdom from the other side about our bright future and how we will manifest it! The Masters are a who’s who of the greatest minds of our time, and include Professor Albert Einstein, Michele de Nostradamus, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Leonardo da Vinci, U.S. President John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Mahatma Gandhi, Nicolai Tesla, U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth. They suggest solutions to many current problems and disclose information about some of our most perplexing mysteries. More importantly they suggest ways we may assist ourselves to evolve since we humans are the ones who must do the work. Messages From the Masters is a compelling narrative of the hidden history as told from the other side of the veil. It factually and optimistically assesses of our current situation, how we got here and where we are going as a species. I hope you will join us and these great Masters in co-creating this beautiful New Earth where war and conflict are just distant memories and in the words of John Lennon, “all the world will live as one!”
Yeah, I always found him disappointing as a high ranking government official coming out on this topic. Because, ultimately, it didn't sound like he actually knew too much first hand.
This shit about, "The Master's" and channeling again... It seems like this is a common thread, people keep harkening back to the law of one and the secret masters and similar stuff.
While I'll reluctantly accept that in the realm of wild hypotheticals this could all end up being true, what it is starting to smell like to me is something far more culty to fit our modern understanding and capitalistic frameworks.
We need astute Redditors, or interviewers that can think on their feet, to question people like Nell that make references to folks like Hellyer and Eshed. Wonder if Nell would ever do an AMA... hmm
There is one thing I cannot comprehend. Everytime there is a war, every country on the planet sends its best men to fight and die.
And that is "OK" for everybody.
Yet, similar deal that US government struck on much smaller scale would result in "world panic". Really? After WW1 and WW2, this should be a shocker?
I think we all can handle the truth easily.
Just a reminder that Hellyer knew nothing from his time in government, only from what he read or was told by others.
10:03 In your positions of power, did you ever deal with UFO reports? No…only got some sighting reports. Didn’t have time to worry about them…had other things to do.
https://youtu.be/3PPDHaIkVYA?si=dsRWWEhBSUf3srzP&t=603
Well, some very important people believed him enough to vouch for him. I doubt a Defense Minister could share how he came across some information. I’m sure some of the ways he obtained information was classified and he’s not going to incriminate himself.
Going to have to back that up tho no ?
As for how he got the information he could very well say that he got it from people in the know rather then "I read it in a book" or in today's world "on reddit" ...
Some years ago Hellyer was discussed at length on this sub, and the consensus seemed to be that what he said was readily available information found in various publications rather than something we've never heard about before. Has this changed?
Edit: alright my question is being addressed elsewhere in this thread but I'll leave the comment up anyway
Edit to the edit: I can't believe I just replied to myself instead of editing. First time for everything. :/
I also checked on the claims of these two. From what I've seen they seem to have arrived at their conclusions just like us, by reading books and documents about Ufology (only I and a lot of people still doubt these sources, so don't conclude anything). They were in pretty high ranks in their governments, but they say they became interested in UFO stuff after they retired. So they do not strike me as insiders who have direct knowledge about this stuff. They may have verified some of the information from their contacts they must've made in their careers though.
It is possible that Karl Nell didn't come to his conclusions from hearsay (judging from his resume, Lockheed Martin, Wright-Patterson Base etc.), so him vouching on these two may mean their claims are spot on. He twisted the question about the evidence part, and said public should look into these other people. Maybe he couldn't give classified info, maybe not.
As usual with this topic, it is just claims and more claims.
I extracted the transcript of the Hellyer video and his book. Here's a concise summary:
### Analysis of Suspected Negative Actions by NHI and Reasons for Hellyer's Somber Tone
Based on Paul Hellyer's talk and his book "Hope Restored," here’s a summary of the suspected negative actions by non-human intelligence (NHI) and Hellyer's reasons for a somber tone.
### Negative Actions Suspected to be Done by NHI
1. **Interception of Friendly Spaceships:** Hellyer mentions extraterrestrials intercepting friendly spaceships, raising concerns about misinterpreted actions leading to hostility.
2. **Weather Manipulation:** He discusses advanced technologies potentially altering weather patterns as a weapon.
3. **Worldwide Network:** Hellyer describes a global network capable of harming individuals, attributed to human and extraterrestrial technological advancements.
4. **Abduction and Genetic Experimentation:** He refers to the Treaty of Granada, which allegedly allowed grey aliens to abduct individuals for genetic experiments, suggesting potential malevolence.
### Benevolent or Malevolent?
- **Benevolent:** Hellyer views many extraterrestrial civilizations as benevolent, possessing advanced technologies that could benefit humanity.
- **Malevolent:** Some actions, like abductions, suggest malevolent intentions, though he attributes much of this to human misuse of technology.
### Cooperative or Competitive?
- **Cooperative:** Hellyer advocates for cooperative engagement with extraterrestrials, emphasizing potential technological and societal benefits.
- **Competitive:** He warns against militaristic approaches by human governments, which could provoke hostile responses from extraterrestrials.
### Reasons for Hellyer's Somber Tone
1. **Global Instability:** Hellyer draws parallels to the pre-World War II era, emphasizing urgent action to avoid crises.
2. **Secrecy and Control:** He is concerned about extensive secrecy, which fosters distrust and potential misuse of technologies.
3. **Misuse of Technology:** Hellyer fears the misuse of extraterrestrial technology by powerful entities could lead to conflict and erosion of civil liberties.
4. **Economic and Environmental Concerns:** He believes current economic policies exacerbate inequality and environmental degradation, posing significant threats to humanity.
### Conclusion
Hellyer advocates for transparency, cooperation, and responsible use of extraterrestrial technologies. His somber tone reflects concerns about global instability, secrecy, and the misuse of advanced technologies.
>Today, I listened again to the Karl Nell’s interview at the Salt Conference and he referenced how he came to his beliefs about the existence of NHI. He said, “A better way the audience can get a common understanding about what this phenomena is there is sort of two tracks here; one is first principles and the other is actually the data. **So, let’s take a look at the data. So, we can look at some folks that have very high level access to information like Paul Hellyer who is the Defense Chief for Canada has come out and said the same thing. We can look at Haim Eshed the former head of Israel’s Space Force has said the same thing**.”
Does this mean people making claims = data?
Unfortunately, that's kind of how it's looking. If anyone can provide actual data, it's Nell. It's so disappointing that a guy with his resume doesn't seem to have anything for us except "I believe because those people do"
Interdimensional travel IS space travel. They are the same thing, still extraterrestrial. They’re just not flying rockets from point A across to point B, they dematerialize and rematerialize.
I’m a new believer since Grusch. It’s anomalous that I glossed over 64 years without realizing something big is up! I hope we learn about it soon and I hope we learn something about secrets.
As someone who was tasked with writing Government Policy on responses to critical incidents and formulating protocols for all hazard plans and having been trained extensively by NIMs and ICS standards I can say that we (Policy Designers) have to ask, what if all of this is true? Do we sit on our hands and hope these things never happen? Or do we put together plans to either counter these possibilities or produce protocols to deal with the aftermath. We now have policies to initiate for Active Shooters, which was not even considered 15 to 20 years ago. What if we never put together statewide certifications to deal with these scenarios. We would be certainly criminally negligent and more citizens would be dead as a result. So I say it is in the best interest of everyone that we have a contingency for the
“what if”. Lou, Dr. Greer and Paul Hellyer make a good case to err on the side of caution. You can deny but never fail to plan, for you shall surely fail. For what I do I can never fail to plan for, or ignore to create a contingency against any critical or dangerous incident. So it’s ok to say these people have lost touch with reality but if not for them then who would you believe? Nobody apparently, so I would never want you doubters to be in charge of my safety or to formulate plans of attack as you would surely be the first ones to be eliminated.
The thing about Hellyer that has been mentioned in this sub before, is that he never got information about any of this while being an active defense minister. He got into the ET/UFO sphere after his retirement and was convinced because of a book he read. So it's very much the same as anyone in here, and that's the thing that gives me pause about Hellyer when anyone cites him as a source.
I am happy someone like him is taking up the fight, but it becomes dangerous if people thinks he has wide insider knowledge and gives him more credit than reality.
It also goes back to the point of circular source citing... If Nell sources Hellyer and others, where those others also use Hellyer and Nell as sources, and Hellyer cites some of the others plus his books, and the books cites some other vague source... then where does it all come from? It starts sounding like a house of cards with no bottom layer.
It's the one thing post 2017 that keeps me going back and forth on the subject.
What if the knowledge Hellyer got was from his position as a Defense Minister and he can’t say that’s where he got the information? I imagine he could get into a lot of trouble if he said he discovered this information while he was a Defense Minister. There would be a lot of people demanding answers from the Canadian government right? So, what do you do? You obfuscate where you got the information so it takes the heat off the government to respond to these accusations.
RIP Paul Hellyer. But let's look further for a moment at his primay sources (plenty of videos available online):
1. A book by Philip J. Corso's, full of absurdities and inaccuracies, like the US having reverse engineered from UAPs things like Kevlar (actually invented by the chemist and researcher Stephanie Kwolek in 1965), optic fiber (actually invented by phisicist Narinder Singh Kapany during his time at Imperial College of London in 1953). and laser (actually invented in 1960 by [Theodore Maiman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Maiman)).
2. STEVEN GREER (of whom he declares to be a huge admirer), a notorious grifter lucrating on CE5 UFO contact parties.
3. Charles Hall and his funky tall white alien stories playing slot machines in Las Vegas amidst humans.
4. A phone call with an anonymous US general saying nothing more than "everything in Corso's book is true and more".
He also dangerously accepts and mention every kind of conspiracy theory, like Chemtrails, Illuminati, New World Order etc.
Do we really want to be that blind and accept everything it's written and said online without any critical thinking?
I don't doubt the man's good faith, but as a matter of facts, an old retired person confronted with lots of free time and many unexplicable phenomenons can easily fall for conspiracy theories.
EDIT: Downvotes are from conspiracy theorists unwilling to accept the truth.
The most bizarre thing is...where is the footage?
We only got the 2017 videos...77 years after Roswell, we only got 2 confirmed videos...
Since the internet went global in 1997, no one leaked undeniable footage.
Hellyer had no first hand experience with anything and has made many wild claims. It’s confusing and a bit disheartening to me that Nell is bringing him up. I’m not making any conclusions yet, but there’s a chance that Nell is here to provide misinformation and not here to truly move disclosure forward. Y’all gonna downvote me that’s fine I couldn’t care less about that. We need to have a healthy skepticism towards anyone in government.
You’re absolutely correct. I’m not going to downvote you. This is healthy skepticism and not hate speech. That’s the entire reason I posted this interview. It’s pretty unbelievable and very outlandish. However, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
I’ve watched Hellyer videos before in the past, but the one I watched today took the cake. I never took him seriously until Nell gave his thoughts on him. Everything he mentioned about ET’s was definitely shocking. He even mentioned the “Reptilians” that I’ve always thought were a load of crap. He mentions a meeting between the E.T.’s and our military leaders that took place. I’ve heard that story before where they supposedly landed on a military base out west.on Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico in May of 1971.
I implore people to go a step further and see where hellyer got his info from, because if his statements are true that would make charles halls statements true, and he has an hour long interview talking about his personal interactions with aliens face to face.
ChatGPT to the rescue:
Charles Hall is an American author and self-proclaimed former military meteorologist who claims to have had repeated interactions with extraterrestrials during his time stationed at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada in the 1960s. His accounts primarily involve a group of beings he refers to as the "Tall Whites." According to Hall, these beings were working with the U.S. military and lived in an underground base in the Nevada desert.
### Key Points about Charles Hall and the Tall Whites:
1. **Claims of Interaction**: Hall asserts that he had numerous encounters with the Tall Whites, describing them as humanoid in appearance, very tall (up to 7 feet or more), with white hair and pale skin.
2. **Books and Theories**: He has detailed his experiences in a series of books called "Millennial Hospitality," where he describes various interactions and the societal structure of the Tall Whites. He also suggests that these beings have advanced technology and a long history of interaction with the Earth.
3. **Military Involvement**: Hall claims that the U.S. military was aware of and facilitated his interactions with the Tall Whites, providing a controlled environment for these contacts to take place. He alleges that the military had agreements with these extraterrestrials, allowing them to use certain areas for their activities.
4. **Skepticism and Criticism**: Hall's claims have been met with skepticism from both the scientific community and UFO researchers. Critics argue that his stories lack verifiable evidence and that his accounts are more akin to science fiction than factual recounts.
5. **Public Appearances**: Despite the controversy, Hall has been a guest on various radio shows, podcasts, and conferences related to UFOs and extraterrestrial life, where he continues to share his experiences and theories.
Charles Hall's stories have contributed to the broader discourse on UFOs and extraterrestrial encounters, but they remain highly debated and largely unverified within the scientific and skeptical communities.
There’s a myth about orangutans that they can really speak and have higher intellectual abilities than they let on, but they’ve all agreed to stay quiet on this because if the humans found out, we’d make them get jobs and pay taxes.
If Hellyer’s claims are true, I’m wondering if we are the orangutans here. Once the rest of the universe knows that we know about them, we will be required to participate in intergalactic affairs.
What leverage would we have over an ultra powerful intelligence? Why would they need to “make a deal” with us at all? It’s like a superpower making a deal with an uncontacted tribe. Makes no sense when there’s such a gap in capabilities. If they want humans or human consciousness, they can just take it and there’s nothing we can do about it.
u/lastofthefinest, the reason their stories are similar is because they're getting them from each other.
For example Hellyer cites as the sole source of his beliefs various conspiracy books he read in the mid 1990 and early 2000s. Hellyer has no first hand knowledge, testimony or experiences. He simply read conspiracy books (he positively mentions the hoaxer Steven Greer on numerous occasions). One of them, for example, is Philip Corso's infamous Roswell book, regarded as a literary hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/nov/15/news) and rejected by none other than Stanton Friedman as being filled with inaccuracies and outright lies.
Elsewhere Hellyer endlessly regurgitates popular UFO lore. For example he thinks:
1. Four alien species currently live at the North Pole.
2. Jesus had alien roots.
3. The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer.
4. There are 80 species of aliens, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites. These Tall Whites can pass as humans and work inside the USAF. For this belief, Hellyer cites Charles Hall's book "Millennial Hospitality", which Hall claims he was allowed to write by the Anunnaki Race so long as he didn't provide "solid proof of their existence".
5. These aliens come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli.
6. They also come from one of the moons of Saturn, and from bases in Venus and Mars.
7. There is an alien Federation and they have a non interference rule (ie the Prime Directive from Star Trek).
8. Two brothers from Peru teleported to a Saturnian moon where they were given warnings by the aliens.
9. The aliens want us to take better care of the planet and not nuke ourselves.
10. They abduct people and take them on spaceships, but only do this to people who are "receptive".
11. Human technology like LED lights, kevlar vests, microchips and velcro are from aliens (we reverse engineered them).
12. There may soon be an interstellar war between alien races (like a bad scifi movie, the Whites are the goodies, the Reptilian-looking races are the baddies).
13. There's a conspiracy to pump the skies full of chemtrails.
Hellyer's sole sources for this are trashy conspiracy books, and letters sent to him by fellow conspiracists. He's essentially a senile old kook who believes everything he comes across.
Hellyer also wrote the foreword for the book "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom". It purports to be the received wisdom beamed across time and space to its psychic author from the greatest human minds (Albert Einstein, Nostradamus, Oppenheimer, da Vinci, JFK, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Gandhi, Tesla, Dwight D. Eisenhower), and also representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth.
That people like Karl Nell are positively citing Hellyer is a giant red flag. Nell, who has no evidence of alien conspiracies, is mentioning a guy who has no evidence, who relies on rediculous sources, and who who believes that a magical guy called Zora lives in a Hollow Earth.
Like Hellyer spun nonsense out of fragments of nonsense, Nell these days is spinning nonsense out of fragments of nonsense. And like the delusions that propagate religions, this absurd game of telephone continues onward.
Paul Hellyer says he learned about UFOs and NHI **after his stint in government....from internet research**.
Automatically disregarded IMO. Think what you will, but that is absolutely shit and with that being the case we shouldn't see him used as a sort of "authority" on the subject.
Why would the aliens create a superhuman? What is in it for them? Like they need to make agreements with us . If they are so advanced I can’t imagine anything we could do for them would be something they would be at all interested in.And let’s just say they were ,does anyone really believe they would want or need any approval from our government s Monkeys ?
What puzzles me is that the so-called Galactic Federation implies the ET hypothesis. But after Grusch, many people went off on the interdimensional tangent. I am somewhat confused and don't know what to think.
Think about it. Both could be possible. There could be a Galactic Federation and some could possess the inter dimensional capabilities we’ve heard mentioned. We’re talking about an entire universe here.
We now think dark matter plus dark energy makes up 95% of the universe’s mass-energy content and we have no idea what it is. If that is close to accurate, we should expect most life forms to be part of the dark matter-energy space apart from our own known mass-energy space. It seems we are the ones existing in the backwaters of mass- energy and others would need advanced technology to pierce that divide and enter our weird realm of 4D existence where time only travels in one direction.
Dark matter universe is what mankind has historically referred to as the spiritual realm. Spot on.
Explain?
See the post I'm replying to. That's my theory
Dark matter is only theory because Astro physicists cannot explain what fills the void between celestial objects, gaseous clouds and other space debri . Thus a theory to quantify the lack of gravity in space, however not proven.
**Absolutely wrong.** Dark matter is a thing because scientists have observed it effects. They have determined that galaxies couldn't spin as they do or be cohesive as they are without mass energy we cannot see affecting their gravitation/gravity. They can measure the halos around galaxies by using the math's to calculate a galaxies motion and it doesn't match without adding mass, so they effectively measure the amount of dark matter in the halos. Dark energy is a thing because the expansion of the universe and it's acceleration hints at this sort of energy. There must be an energy that is driving that expansion that possess repulsive qualities (perhaps gravity but repulsive) *only over the largest scales*. We know gravity is exceptionally weak compared to the other fundamental forces, it is easily overpowered essentially and the same is assumed for dark energy. At filament level you see, within a local group it has no effect let alone a single solar system. You could delve much deeper than this, but don't talk out your ass like that misleading people. These things match our observations. That doesn't mean 100% though - it could be some other thing driving this, but it seems without physics being scrapped there is no way to reconcile it other than these.
Don’t murder me for saying this, but kind of like the Q continuum…?
Q Continuum is outside of spacetime, and has access to multiple realities and timelines. So yes.
Its easy. Everything is possible.
Q Continuum -- Slide 9...someone's got the capabilities
As per usual until we get one thing formally defined we can only use known analogy. Not Q, Q is a species whose home is in some other "realm" or "dimension" of sorts. You know how in Trek time travel, ETs, inter-dimensional, multiverse, weird sub and outer spaces, basically everything is true because it's been seen at least once? Even extra-galactic now? The implication is that "in real life" more than one option appears to be valid, but we don't know which or how. So extraplanetary seems to be basically a 'yes' but 'other' options or at least one is in play, but we don't know which, or nature of it--time, universe, multiverse, dimensions, realms, we don't even know the possible terms yet. But at least one other.
I have no idea what that is man.
A species from Star Trek https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Q_(species) Q Continuum was their place of origin
I thought it was a reference to QAnon haha
That species is easy to tell... They'll believe anything written online. 🥴
> WWG1WGA #Absolute Clowns
When maga types go the the circus, they say WWG1WGA
Q would be a Level 4 Civilization on the Kardashev scale.
And really, we don't have any true concept of "interdimensional." We don't really know what it means, other than to say, "it's additional dimensions separate from the 4 we know." It's crazy that we can differentiate between ET and Interdimensional when we really don't know what interdimensional really means. We could have called gravity and electromagnetism's observed affects different dimensions. Perhaps there are "forces" we have yet to understand or identify. For all we know, remote viewing, Astral Projecting, dark matter, dark energy, intuition, light being a particle and a wave, observing the universe expanding into (we don't know) is simply us accessing or observing other dimensions. We may be "interdimensional" beings and not know it. Hell... we really don't know what gravity is. We can just observe and predict it's effects on time and matter. Gravity itself may be "interdimensional." It's essentially a term we made up, that we have a definition for, but don't really comprehend. ET and Interdimensional beings may ultimately be the same thing. We've put far too much weight into the terms popularized by Physists who don't even believe NHI exist at all. Interdimensional is a word in our lexicon. It's like people who came back after NDE. They often say, "I can't put into words what I've experienced." There's no vocabulary to explain it accurately.
Am I insane / imagining things, but wasn't there once a leaked email from some high-level political appointee referencing some kind of "galactic federation" (but with some bizarre, very different, but analogous term) alongside some other group referenced as like "celestials" or something like that? And some reference to a weird/tricky/frustrating dynamic between earth and the other two? And that there was some local group of these "celestials" treating earth in a very uncommon way for reasons nobody would disclose to earth? Lol maybe I'm misremembering and conflating a ton of stuff and never saw anything of the sort, who knows
I honestly think “inter dimensionality” is just the means by which these 3d world universe beings travel (and which brings a very bad semantic image of physics). Just that. We have never proved a fifth dimension, so unless we do it, I will stick to prosaic theories that can explain what appears to us “phased out”. And believe me, there are enough theories using old physics to go about traveling outside our space-time (still in 3D+time but outside the space/quantum vacuum medium, or manipulating it somehow like polarizing as I think Slavator Pais’s effect is all about). Inter dimensional is from my understanding semantically wrong, yet I see everyone embracing it. And I think folk say it because even academic community started talking in those terms, further proving my point that people have forgotten the etymology of words. These things matter
You are spot-on. People use the concepts available to them that fit best. Most people are no physicists. Funnily enough, there are better fitting concepts actually. "Different planes of existence" for example. In order to interact easily, you have to occupy the same "sensory space" as your contactee. Folks should look more often at i.e. how narrow the band of frequencies visible to human eyes actually is. You need to be as fast/slow, of the same size, use the same "vibrations" (electromagnetic wave frequencies, sound waves, etc.) as them and so on. Failing that, you might appear invisible or even inscrutable. Such "distance" places you on another "plane of existence", without being anywhere different particularly.
>I honestly think “inter dimensionality” is just the means by which these 3d world universe beings travel (and which brings a very bad semantic image of physics). Just that. We have never proved a fifth dimension Inter-dimensional is not the same as extra-dimensional. I think you mean "extra-dimensional".
Most people can’t name newtons laws of physics. You’ll have to forgive them if they misspeak when talking about advanced theoretical physics lol.
>Most people can’t name newtons laws of physics Well what else are you supposed to call them?
Beats me. What do I look like a scientist?
>Both could be possible Chains of the Sea
And we could all be living in a giant orange... We have the same evidence of either
What if everything we see in the skies are other dimensions
What worries me is that there may be a Federation. We talking Star Trek near-Utopian here, or the corrupt shit-storm that is *Mobile Suit Gundam* Federation?
We already live in Mobile Suit Gundam, dude. Politics, politics, politics, pretty young people, politics, politics, sometimes shit blows up. That's already here, man.
No idea yet, but if they can do a fraction of what is implied, crap like "replicators" are likely "easy mode" for them.
What if we are just quarantined to our own dimensional space because of reasons we are yet to know or understand. Personally our tendency towards violence isn't a good enough reason to isolate us. In my mind it's got to be something more. Reason we aren't hearing or seeing much out there is because there isn't much. All that kind of stuff, galactic federation etc, resides in other dimensions. We aren't really in a prison but instead behind a curtain. Once we understand how to get beyond that veil, we are welcomed or at least openly able to engage with these other beings and civilizations. Just one of many ideas of what this all could be. Eshed said this federation and these beings have been waiting for humans to "reach a stage where we will understand... what space and spaceships are,"... To me that's an insanely downplayed quote. We're clearly missing some big parts of the equation. Although our sciences help us to understand the basis of the Universe we are not able to test those ideas outside of a lab or theoretical construct. Like looking at a beautiful clock face as a layman and admirer and thinking, bet there's a bunch of gears and springs behind all that. Neat. Kinda correct but without the foggiest idea of how it actually works. It's my hopes that part of this conversation rocks academia so hard that they are forced to get back out of their own friggin way. At 42 now single with no kiddos, I just want so badly to live long enough to see the shifts in real time.
46f, exactly the same, no kids, and thankful. I wanted to be a chemical engineer. I went to college just for that and I dropped out in year 3 to just work. I realized that I wasn't gonna be the one to change the ways that existed already. It wasn't anything I wanted a part of. But other changes are happening already, the ones that are shifting inside heads and minds about who we are and what the whole picture may be. I see it in so many people around me. My religious mother now accepts the ideas that all her beliefs may have been just a human invention for control. At 83 she has shocked me, she reads as many books now as she can on this subject and has actually surpassed any reading I've done on it. She still tells me things about Skinwalkers at the Pentagon and can't wait for Lou's book! My father is closer to the end. He's so saddened that he still just doesn't know what it's about. He's of the mentality that our government should be filling us in and he's mad that it's not happening and that he won't get to know what they are hiding. I told him he may be the one to know before any of us, especially since we are probably going to a place after here that's just another part of the big picture. It actually made him smile. As a scientist , he and mom divorced when I was young because of religion. He had made sure I had a well rounded education on the different ones out there and always believed the spirit was energy that won't die with the body, it will just transform. He promised that he will fill me in if he can but there's places in this world that he didn't get to see that he may visit first, then he'd come haunt me when I least expect it lol. Totally the Dad I know!
Damn you have cool cherish the time you have left with them. It does seem like universally way more people are open to learning this topic/altering world view then there was a decade ago. I became fascinated off both these topics after I had near death in experience 11 years ago in college. While I am not an experiencer , learning/researching stuff about the phenomonon/spirituality changed the way I view the world.
Violence and low general enlightenment and low vibration fear-based societies absolutely seem like valid reasons that they'd believe humanity isn't ready yet. I think what humanity isn't getting yet is the spiritual side of things, that all life is interconnected at one level, and that on a deeper level all life is one, all life and all beings are nothing but extensions of source energy/the energy that created everything, and is everything.
The Law of One fills that part in. They are extraterrestrial and also at different densities (dimensions) dark matter and energy is the missing mass.
Law of one changed my perspective on life and the whole UAP subject and explains how it is all related, along with all human history, religion and the weird metaphysical events that have been with us as a species since the very beginning. Despite being a hard read with extraordinary claims if you can get through it all it is remarkably consistent with all the revelations coming out about the phenomenon. The biggest thing for me is that it provides the deeper "why" that is missing from every other attempt to explain the nature of reality. I think it's the real truth that so many insiders keep referring to when they mention the spiritual nature of the phenomenon that people aren't ready for. It also would be a completely valid reason for the cover up too, the ones in control of the truth don't think people can handle it... and they might be right about that. https://www.lawofone.info/
What is the "why?" - I don't this idea that these NHI or higher beings somehow orchestrate our souls into being in these meat bags and have suffering and all that to achieve apotheosis....really?
I'm gonna try to tl;dr it but there is a lot more to it than this.. We are all part of the creator who created our separate consciousnesses with free will in order to experience itself and grow into higher levels of consciousness over many lifetimes. We choose our incarnations in order to provide the most needed lessons. We can either grow more strongly in the direction of serving others (positive spiritual polarity) or service to our selves (negative spiritual polarity). All of life's challenges or opportunities we have chosen because they are the most relevant for growth. The reason we don't remember the higher planes during our lives is because previous versions of experience without the forgetting were not as effective at learning and growing. This universal cycle eventually resets back to the start once all consciousness has evolved back into unity. This has been repeating for infinity.
I mean here I am on a UFO subreddit and I have a wide open mind about whatever may be going on that may be beyond our understanding. With that said, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but just seems wild to me that this Non-Human Intelligence light years ahead of us is still holding onto and unionizing under Hamitonian Federalism in outer space or wherever else.
Yeah that’s what also bothers me, but iguess we could be seeing the term federation too humanly. Maybe federation is just the best term that we can understand without completely breaking our brains
I was thinking of a more mundane comparison. Like a Ferrari dealership and a used car lot both do the same things. But your experience at a Ferrari dealership is going to VERY different than a used lot.
Start with not listening to what other people are saying. Read up on case files that have actual data points and draw your own conclusions. We can pick 5 different recent talking heads and have 5 completely different assertions about "what they know as fact". You'll get completely lost and burnt out listening to people. There's been some great investigations over the years, there's been a ton of government documents released that you could literally spend a lifetime going through. I know because I've been doing it for over 5 decades. I learned a long, long time ago to put virtually nothing into these types like Elizondo, Nolan or Nell. It's just the latest talking heads talking out their asses.
It's not either/or, and I can embrace both. If extraterrestrials live a thousand or a million light years away, wouldn't they try to invent interdimensional travel. Wormholes are not prohibited by Einstein's theory. You can have your cake and eat it, too.
That's because they're both simply made-up stories. Don't believe either of them, and you don't need to "know what to think", if you know *how* to think - and that means applying logic to these outlandish claims. They simply don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
ET that can use interdimensional methods of travel? (Also: hope not)
If being transported as information, that gets materialized into, say, an avatar at your destination counts as "interdimensional travel", they certainly can. What is so scary about that?
The possibilities are endless, crazy, and spooky. I can understand keeping it under wraps if true. Some people can’t handle it, hell, I don’t even know if I can but I guess we don’t have much choice if true.
More than one origin is long stated and implied. We have no idea what concepts are in possible play. Make a list from fiction. One at least will be close enough and then apparently another, but you may be going down to religious myth, folklore, a novel from 1951 with three surviving copies… who knows. But more than one is implied. If can be true so can three.
This is what always frustrated me. Grusch said he wouldn’t “rule out” interdimensional aspects of the craft. Next thing you know everyone was all “the phenomena is 100% inter-dimensional, not ET”
When we use the word "interdimensional," we really don't know what that word means. People would say, "it's dimensions other than the 4 we know." What's consciousness? What's telepathy? How do we travel faster than the speed of the light? What's the universe expanding in to? What's dark matter? What's dark energy. We don't REALLY know the difference between Interdimensional and our reality. Other than "weird," "spooky action at a distance," or "paranormal." Can any human describe what another "dimension" looks like? No. They can't. It's all theory. Entities that are extraterrestrial may have used "interdimensional" techniques to make their "travel." ET and dimensional beings may be the same thing. They're just using abilities akin to magic that we consider to be "interdimensional."
In the video, Hellyer claims that the U.S. government made a deal with extraterrestrials to conduct experiments on our people so they could make a hybrid being. However, the E.T.’s they were dealing with started going out of control with their experiments. I’m an experiencer and have seen one of these crafts, so I know they are real myself. The craft I saw was on the ground with my mother and sister. I also worked on Eglin Air Force Base when I was in the military and got to see where the government monitors these crafts at Site C6 on Eglin. Here’s a link to the site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglin_AFB_Site_C-6 . I’ve heard Chris Mellon mention it’s capabilities, but had never called it by name.
>Hellyer claims that the U.S. government made a deal with extraterrestrials to conduct experiments on our people so they could make a hybrid being. Wasn't this literally the plot of the x files?
Exactly
I was under the impression that Hellyer's entire position on the phenomena was formed after he left office and read "The Day After Roswell". He has never cited any evidence other than he believes everything in the book is true
He made his claims decades after he served as Defense Minister. He was caught up in conspiracy theory nonsense and likely experiencing age related cognitive decline
But while he was minister of defense, he was aware of UFO intrusions since NATO did a study and wrote a secret report on high speed high level mass fleets that set off alarms on radar as they were heading for England from SE Europe
Do you have I link for that report or which year was it published?
Truth is stranger than fiction 🔥
Hellyer and the other guys are, in my opinion, prime examples for "don't believe them just because they held certain positions". There's nothing but wild stories of them, no proof, nothing that makes it believable. On the other hand, these stories just resemble too many old fictional works or conspiracies that it's more likely they just mixed stuff up and are... Old men confusing things.
“Appeal to authority”
Sometimes it makes sense, these guys should be NO authority whatsoever unless the guy on the street yelling about whatever conspiracy is also an authority.
Much of the X-Files was based on documented paranormal phenomenon. In this case, they just appropriated the theories of researchers like Karla Turner and David Jacobs.
X files was a psyop in the 1990s to cover up whatever was going on then imo.
And one of the half seasons of American Horror Story lol
I suggest people look into Hellyer. I did because I wanted to see what he did during his career etc. He has some pretty wild claims. But this is what ruined all confidence in him for me, and I think it should for everyone else too. Paul served his country and had retired, he and his wife were at his cottage and he was bored and pulled out Philip J Corsos book, that was given to him years earlier. He read it and instantly believed everything. He then used his connections and got a hold of... You guessed it, Steven Greer. Since that point he has followed the Linda moulton Howe path and gone straight off the deep end. He believes everything he hears or people tell him. He is not an expert in any Sense of the word. He did not have experience with UFOs or aliens during his political career. Do not believe what he says.
The fact that Karl Nell basically cited him (among others) in his Salt talk, leads me to believe this might just be a bunch of DOD guys in a circular spiral of reinforcing each other’s beliefs.
Which is what AARO said. 🤣 That said, this topic is murky. There could be little bits of truth to multiple conflicting stories.
Yeah that would really be disappointing because there is something going on it would be a real bummer if these highly credentialed military officers with high clearances got bamboozled on a wild goose chase. And so we will still have people seeing black triangles, etc. and we will once again not get any answers as to what the hell is going on.
I remember doing this a while back and writing him off myself. And while it is more likely the case that he just got old and eccentric, I've also lately taken to not outright dismissing people's claims as default. Perhaps, while reading Corso's, he had more reason to believe it than we know. He was certainly in a position to be privy to knowledge the general public wouldn't. Maybe it connected dots for him. I know he said all his knowledge came about after his career.... But he would probably HAVE to either way. I get it, that's me reaching for straws to have it fit, and there is some reaaalllly wacky stuff being said. But, it also seems, overtime, that this shit IS really fuckin wacky(it would be wouldn't it?). Then I think about it in the context of WHY I think it's soo wacky. And think about the history and society I've grown up in. Which is to say, FULLY enmeshed in Hollywood and western media (aka the most powerful propaganda machine ever). It is known there are massive operations to manipulate people's opinions and outlook on things, and if it seems like "ok, but this is just TOO massive", keep in mind that, by it's very nature, we are probably not just dealing with human influence. I'm not saying "don't be skeptical", or planting my flag anywhere, but I think it would help a lot of us to also be AS skeptical of our OWN preconceived notions of what is possible/reasonable, and our default reactions(often outright incredulous dismissal), and WHY we might have them.
[People should go read his AMA from a few years back… It definitely raises some questions about his credibility.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/by7ipl/i_am_a_95_yo_former_canadian_minister_of_defense/)
And Eshed is just as problematic. I don’t know what to make of Nell mentioning these guys. He’s obviously an intelligent guy and well connected but there’s no way a smart person would take Eshed and Hellyer seriously
Otoh he read a NATO study on intrusions in western Europe where extremely high speed vehicles were tracked, not of this world ...
I’m not a Greer fan, but in the beginning, he did some good work. Nobody should deny that fact. Over the years, I believe he’s gone off the rails for some reason. Hellyer’s claims are pretty wild and I never thought they could possibly be true. I never believed in the “Reptilians “ or an alien base in the South Pole. That brings us to Nell. If he’s so revered and vouches for Hellyer and Eshed, what are we supposed to believe at this point because people like Nell and Grusch are trying to control the narrative? If you don’t believe Hellyer, you shouldn’t believe Nell either correct?
If Nell can only point to what Hellyer and Eshed have previously said, then yes, we should dismiss him also.
So, what, the Galactic Federation considers it legal to mock aborigines with underdeveloped civilization? Let's create a petition that we, the inhabitants of the Earth, are against all experiments on us and mistreatment of us. And we cancel all treaties our governments have with aliens. You can separate such a petition into a separate post.
[удалено]
They may see every animal as important to us, and if we test animals they can test us. In other words they are obeying our own logic and customs and doing nothing wrong.
I went vegetarian for precisely this reason.
Plants are living beings too.
Read the secret life of plants by Peter Tompkins.
But (almost certainly) at a different level of consciousness/awareness compared to a pig or cow. It's about being mindful and trying to minimize the suffering you cause.
Who are you to decide which living being is worthy of being eaten?
Is your dog or cat safe from you? How about your neighbor? We all make these decisions every day, even vegetarians.
Plants have a differing consciousness structure, their biology has evolved to maximize reproductive rates and distributions, with fruits designed to be consumed to spread seeds, and titanic success from a genetic standpoint in crop plants. We have genetically engineered plants to be more resilient to environmental conditions but we have engineered livestock animals to be fatter, tastier, and nigh completely ineffective at survival in the wild. Animals also have a greater degree of sensory and situational awareness, pain, fear, etc. there is a glaringly obvious difference in extent of harm done when deciding which to eat between plants and animals.
We haven’t a clue the true nature of plant consciousness you’re just guessing and justifying eating plants based on a hunchb
You are thinking along the lines of a materialistic universe that requires technology for such things. Consider that the universe is actually a product of consciousness instead. You don’t need the tech if you understand how it works. Why do you think the Blue Kona document outlined investigating consciousness as part of the reverse engineering?
Yeah, kinda hard to oppose to human experimentation when we experiment on and kill millions of animals daily.
There's a long, sordid history of humans experimenting on other humans. We don't even need to go into the animal kingdom to show hypocrisy on this thought experiment.
There’s the somber
We did concentration camps, we even trowed nukes as an experiment....
We are a developing civilization, and what was accepted in the recent past seems wild now. And what is accepted now will change in the future. Example. Back in the 70s in Switzerland, children were taken away from single mothers. Is this really wild? But now everything has changed. In general, we humans deserve respect and humane treatment in any case.
No WE didn’t a sub group of people decided it was okay.
And then what? The advanced alien species that view us as experiment chimps are just going to, what, be okay with that? That’s how we get a real Seven Hour war. Less time than that, more likely.
I assume that the laws of the Galactic Union are not so cruel to developing civilizations. We need to claim our rights.
Give us a bill of rights! That's the secret. Until we demand it, the aliens can do whatever they want. Just post it here. Therefore, all this is kept a wild secret. Come on, quickly declare the rights of Earthlings. This will be applied automatically as the "Miranda Rule".
slow down who said we are all against alien experiments on humans
OK OK. Then the petition must contain a clarification about the voluntary nature of participation in the experiments. Whoever wants to - let them participate.
That's a bold claim and pretty hard to believe imo.
So can you have one of your former coworkers corroborate that site is used for monitoring these crafts?
I was the only person as far as I know that got to visit the site. However, I was not alone when I visited it. On some days we worked tandem with the Air Force security forces personnel some days and that is who I was with when I went to the site. I can tell you the Airmen I was with played football for some university in Colorado as a kickoff return guy and was a Jesuit Jew. I remember that because I had never heard of that religion. He kind of looked Hispanic. I can’t remember his name because it was in 2009. My entire MP unit was told when we arrived there at guard mount that “space junk” occasionally crashed in the waters surrounding the base and if we rode with the marine patrol that we might get to see some of it. This was told to my unit along with the security forces guys and to the contract security guards that worked on the base. I talked to a former radar technician that worked at Site C6 from 1981-1984 about them tracking UFOs when he worked at the site. He confirmed to me they tracked UFOs while he worked there.
What shape UFO did you see?
It was an oval shape that looked exactly like a glowing fire. All I could think of was that it was going to burn us up. The next day when we went out to the field where it landed, it left a huge burnt circle on the ground. It had gotten closer to us from where we originally saw it. I was frozen and couldn’t stop stirring at it. My mom said that she got behind the end of the trailer because she saw it land and tried to hide. She made me get behind her and I kept trying to look around her to see it. I was scared of it. We had never talked about the incident until a few years ago. She thought I had forgotten about it. This happened in 1977. She also said people were coming up missing and anyone that reported it was put into psychiatric care. It wasn’t until I was on Eglin Air Force Base that caused me to remember the incident.
It's such a ridiculous story, I find it incredibly sad that so many people here actually believe this bullshit.
If you believe the Eisenhower story he made it a deal breaker for humans to be harmed in any way or not returned afterward to the place from which they were abducted.
Exactly! It sounds like our leaders sold us out and that is totally believable in my opinion if they thought they were going to capitalize off the ET technology advantage. They do it all the time when they send troops to made up wars.
I don’t think the government will ever come out and disclose anything, unless someone comes out and just says it.. and even then people may not believe it unless there’s proof in front of them.
Nell is part of the broadly understood government establishment and did make quite bold claims. And AFAIK, he has not been fired yet. Maybe it was his task to say the things he said.
If true, the old saying of the truth being stranger than fiction is definitely a fact because what Hellyer said was truly bizarre and scary.
Grusch has said that in an interview. They gave him a mission. Karl is Gruschs boss. Remember the slide Karl presented at the Sol foundation some time back, it looked like a pitch deck from some presentation he made to someone and had reused it at Sol. I added it to my notes https://public.amplenote.com/bhsdRVwHti333KHj9yzBg5zi Phase 0: 1933-2024 - disinformation - ridicule, secrecy, power, profit Phase 1: 2024 - demonstrate Existence - hypothesis, reactive, acceptance ⬅️ you are here 🛸 Phase 2: 2026 - correlate signatures - persistent, forensic, academic acceptance Phase 3: 2030 - characterize performance - proactive, predictive, public acceptance Phase 4: 2034 - determine Nature - targeted, integrated, 5 Ws answered Phase 5: Indefinite - engagement - interactive, scientific discovery, strategic end-state
He’s literally a “strategist” for the us military and government. He’s doing strategy.
They have proof, they are just still denying it.
You’re correct! The different agencies in the government, as well as, the president well never come out and admit they are powerless to stop them. They don’t like looking incompetent as we all know they are from previous actions. These former high ranking officials are enough for me to believe what they said after what I personally have seen firsthand.
That’s considering the presidents even actually know anything about that. Wouldn’t make sense to tell a ‘temporary employee’ any of the actual juicy secrets.
Even if it were the truth, I don't think the USG would EVER admit willingly allowing harm to come to her citizens.
I thought what Haim Eshed said was considered BS. Everyone in r/ufos was saying it was BS a couple of months ago but not anymore. I don't understand the sudden change.
Hellyer and Eshad have both made a lot of false claims. The change is now that Karl Nell endorsed them during his interview. Nell was viewed as one of those rock solid UFO influencers that would add credibility to the movement. Now that he's endorsed some questionable UFO enthusiasts the community is faced with a difficult choice: either accept that Nell is not that credible, or start believing the fantastic theories of Hellyer and Eshad as accepted part of the UFO lore.
Yep, this. Nell was hyped as an impossibly credible person and indeed seemed to be on paper. Like Hellyer, he didn't have any cool insight based off his life's work, but admitted he believes it because other people do. It's such a letdown that it's no wonder people don't know what to think.
Time and time again these last 8-9 years, people put all this credibility onto these personalities and end up disappointed. What these people are saying needs to be taken just like your neighbor saying these things. You can listen but unless and until your neighbor gives you some hard evidence, you'd be insane to just take what they told you and run with it. I don't get why people are treating Elizondo, Couthart, Nell or any other of these people any differently than that. Having a "good" resume, experience or education is irrelevent in this field. It's all about evidence and data. Hellyer, Edgar and Nell have never given any other than words. For reference, my former doctor is an IU graduate. Practiced medicine for 45 years. Had all the plaques and references/schooling on his wall in his office. Dude constantly talked out his ass on social and political issues and eventually made a completely bogus medical call that caused me to bail and find someone more intelligent. The point is giving credibility simply based on a perceived authority will fuck you 100% of the time especially when talking outside their areas of knowledge and even *within* their areas of knowledge at times. If I had one piece of advice after my own 50+ years in this topic it would be to not blindly take someone's word just because they tick all your boxes on paper. This field is full of people talking out their asses.
100%. Appeal to authority. This community would benefit immensely from brushing up on identifying logical fallacies
The real onthological shock.
Am I missing something? Nell offers no practical or personal or hidden knowledge, and his only references to data at all are conversations found on YouTube, and nothing from any private sources we’re unaware of. What good is his credentials if it’s based solely on YouTube?
Nope, you're not missing anything. That's really all there is to it. Either stuff from YouTube or "the lore" in general. To boot, the big reveal happened when he was addressing a question of if he *believes* NHI are here. If that belief is informed by his work directly, he didn't say so. Combine that with the anti-science views some people have found him expressing online and yeah, there's disappointment all around.
Anti-science views?
Seemingly, he does associate himself with some stereotypical, heavily loaded conspiracy/right-wing talking point. These range from anti-vaccine, to condescending remarks about the LGBTQ community, to denial of man-made climate-change. Infos are mainly taken from his LinkedIn profile, where he “liked” such content. See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxlqpl/comment/l55wqtx/), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxvzhx/comment/l55lwen/), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxj4f4/comment/l5la7zs/). Make of that what you will.
Thanks for this. I didn't buy his claims before, but knowing this, I sure as hell am not giving him any more interest at all. What a nut job.
THANK YOU. So wild to see the majority ignore the red flags and further implications.
Same with Hellyer too unless I’m mistaken. When Nell was asked what made him so certain that what he was saying was true and he referenced nothing but the what he had heard from Hellyer, Hashim, Elizindo etc I immediately lost interest; his bar for having “zero doubt” is way to low.
>his bar for having “zero doubt” is way to low. I think this is what I dont get why people dont get it. I guess its fine to believe whatever, or think whatever about anyone or anything, but these guys having "zero doubt" for the same stuff we have all seen and heard. Theyre just like any rando believer here then. Nothing wrong with that. _But_ it means exactly the same as anyone of us believing. Like someone who believes anything, believes something. What weight that could have? I know theres huge stigma in saying this, its all right, I dont mind. Its just that I hope people would still think a minute before attacking anyone saying it.
> *But* it means exactly the same as anyone of us believing. There is a reason all of these guys are referred to with their military titles. It makes them sound more important and more credible. Sometimes the move goes even further and obscures the actual source unless you know enough. It sounds a lot more impressive to say "cabinet level mitary guys in Israeli and Canadian forces."
>It sounds a lot more impressive to say "cabinet level mitary guys in Israeli and Canadian forces." Lol yeah. Follow UFOs long enough and we pretty much know who their talkin about when they obscure the source. Puthofs and Davis et al been billed as every type of CIA and whatever type a guy at this point for example. Contractor and whatever else lol "CIA insider" "CIA source" "CIA contractor" sounds pretty impressive, right? If they just said their names people would roll their eyes and know its the same looney tunes gang at it again. But yeah, its pretty big bummer for me to realize its always just same stuff we have all seen/heard/read but just basically embellished to sound more important when its seen/heard/read by general or whoever.
Lots of disinformation agents floating around here. Also, journalists for some reason.
Yeah, block posting their “disappointment” as well. We see your psyops.
redditers are so fickle that i bet within the next 5 years itll become cool to be a flat earther
Paul Hellyer first made his claims all the way back in 2005 I believe.
Mr. Hellyer repeats extraordinary claims from people like Charles Hall, Steven Greer and Jaime Maussan with no further evidence than their say so. He does not seem like a credible source. Hellyer credulously repeats UFO lore as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zI-8lYRb9M * Finding 4 species of aliens at the North Pole * UFOs landing in Russia but covered up * People being on spaceships and other planets * The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer * There are 80 species of aliens including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites * The Tall Whites pass as human and work with the USAF in Nevada (he cites Charles Hall's book *Millennial Hospitality*) * Most species are benevolent but some might dangerous * They come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli * They also come from our own solar system * From a planet called Andromedia(?) which is one of the moons of Saturn (I don't know if he meant the Andromeda *galaxy* but he said Andromedia several times and called it a moon of Saturn), and from Venus and Mars * There is an alien Federation and they have a rule that is basically the Prime Directive from Star Trek * They have given us a warning through various people (including two brothers from Peru who were teleported to Andromedia) * They want us to take better care of each other and the planet and not use nukes * They only work with people who are receptive to them * We got a lot of our tech from them like LED lights and microchips and kevlar vests * Interstellar war is possible His source for all of this are people telling him about it, writing him letters and from reading books about people's claims. It just sounds like he believes everything anyone ever tells in him about aliens. He also wrote the Foreword for the book *Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom* which has this description on Amazon: > Ted Mahr, a gifted psychic, channeled Messages From the Masters which contains profound messages of wisdom from the other side about our bright future and how we will manifest it! The Masters are a who’s who of the greatest minds of our time, and include Professor Albert Einstein, Michele de Nostradamus, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Leonardo da Vinci, U.S. President John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Mahatma Gandhi, Nicolai Tesla, U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth. They suggest solutions to many current problems and disclose information about some of our most perplexing mysteries. More importantly they suggest ways we may assist ourselves to evolve since we humans are the ones who must do the work. Messages From the Masters is a compelling narrative of the hidden history as told from the other side of the veil. It factually and optimistically assesses of our current situation, how we got here and where we are going as a species. I hope you will join us and these great Masters in co-creating this beautiful New Earth where war and conflict are just distant memories and in the words of John Lennon, “all the world will live as one!”
Yeah, I always found him disappointing as a high ranking government official coming out on this topic. Because, ultimately, it didn't sound like he actually knew too much first hand.
This shit about, "The Master's" and channeling again... It seems like this is a common thread, people keep harkening back to the law of one and the secret masters and similar stuff. While I'll reluctantly accept that in the realm of wild hypotheticals this could all end up being true, what it is starting to smell like to me is something far more culty to fit our modern understanding and capitalistic frameworks.
We all need to stop talking about Paul Hellyer. He had no "insider information" and admitted as such.
Tell Karl Nell. That's his "proof" it's real. Paul Hellyer
We need astute Redditors, or interviewers that can think on their feet, to question people like Nell that make references to folks like Hellyer and Eshed. Wonder if Nell would ever do an AMA... hmm
That just isn’t true.
I'm so tired of this somber tone bullshit already
Like human existence itself isn't somber lmao
Me too and I hope some of it is not true.
We see and hear of incredibly despicable shit happening nearly every day, people will find a way to deal with whatever it is.
There is one thing I cannot comprehend. Everytime there is a war, every country on the planet sends its best men to fight and die. And that is "OK" for everybody. Yet, similar deal that US government struck on much smaller scale would result in "world panic". Really? After WW1 and WW2, this should be a shocker? I think we all can handle the truth easily.
Just a reminder that Hellyer knew nothing from his time in government, only from what he read or was told by others. 10:03 In your positions of power, did you ever deal with UFO reports? No…only got some sighting reports. Didn’t have time to worry about them…had other things to do. https://youtu.be/3PPDHaIkVYA?si=dsRWWEhBSUf3srzP&t=603
Yup, yet again it sounds like he's an insider, but turns out this was all after he left his defense role and none of it is first hand.
Thank you. Please help spread the word. I see him brought up again and again as if he must know some secret info.
Well, some very important people believed him enough to vouch for him. I doubt a Defense Minister could share how he came across some information. I’m sure some of the ways he obtained information was classified and he’s not going to incriminate himself.
Who vouched for him? Please cite sources as I have done. I mean, you heard it from the man’s own mouth.
Going to have to back that up tho no ? As for how he got the information he could very well say that he got it from people in the know rather then "I read it in a book" or in today's world "on reddit" ...
I think this is fair assessment
Some years ago Hellyer was discussed at length on this sub, and the consensus seemed to be that what he said was readily available information found in various publications rather than something we've never heard about before. Has this changed?
Edit: alright my question is being addressed elsewhere in this thread but I'll leave the comment up anyway Edit to the edit: I can't believe I just replied to myself instead of editing. First time for everything. :/
Also, guess who Paul Hellyer believes in the video link I provided? Lt. Colonel Phillip Corso.
I also checked on the claims of these two. From what I've seen they seem to have arrived at their conclusions just like us, by reading books and documents about Ufology (only I and a lot of people still doubt these sources, so don't conclude anything). They were in pretty high ranks in their governments, but they say they became interested in UFO stuff after they retired. So they do not strike me as insiders who have direct knowledge about this stuff. They may have verified some of the information from their contacts they must've made in their careers though. It is possible that Karl Nell didn't come to his conclusions from hearsay (judging from his resume, Lockheed Martin, Wright-Patterson Base etc.), so him vouching on these two may mean their claims are spot on. He twisted the question about the evidence part, and said public should look into these other people. Maybe he couldn't give classified info, maybe not. As usual with this topic, it is just claims and more claims.
I extracted the transcript of the Hellyer video and his book. Here's a concise summary: ### Analysis of Suspected Negative Actions by NHI and Reasons for Hellyer's Somber Tone Based on Paul Hellyer's talk and his book "Hope Restored," here’s a summary of the suspected negative actions by non-human intelligence (NHI) and Hellyer's reasons for a somber tone. ### Negative Actions Suspected to be Done by NHI 1. **Interception of Friendly Spaceships:** Hellyer mentions extraterrestrials intercepting friendly spaceships, raising concerns about misinterpreted actions leading to hostility. 2. **Weather Manipulation:** He discusses advanced technologies potentially altering weather patterns as a weapon. 3. **Worldwide Network:** Hellyer describes a global network capable of harming individuals, attributed to human and extraterrestrial technological advancements. 4. **Abduction and Genetic Experimentation:** He refers to the Treaty of Granada, which allegedly allowed grey aliens to abduct individuals for genetic experiments, suggesting potential malevolence. ### Benevolent or Malevolent? - **Benevolent:** Hellyer views many extraterrestrial civilizations as benevolent, possessing advanced technologies that could benefit humanity. - **Malevolent:** Some actions, like abductions, suggest malevolent intentions, though he attributes much of this to human misuse of technology. ### Cooperative or Competitive? - **Cooperative:** Hellyer advocates for cooperative engagement with extraterrestrials, emphasizing potential technological and societal benefits. - **Competitive:** He warns against militaristic approaches by human governments, which could provoke hostile responses from extraterrestrials. ### Reasons for Hellyer's Somber Tone 1. **Global Instability:** Hellyer draws parallels to the pre-World War II era, emphasizing urgent action to avoid crises. 2. **Secrecy and Control:** He is concerned about extensive secrecy, which fosters distrust and potential misuse of technologies. 3. **Misuse of Technology:** Hellyer fears the misuse of extraterrestrial technology by powerful entities could lead to conflict and erosion of civil liberties. 4. **Economic and Environmental Concerns:** He believes current economic policies exacerbate inequality and environmental degradation, posing significant threats to humanity. ### Conclusion Hellyer advocates for transparency, cooperation, and responsible use of extraterrestrial technologies. His somber tone reflects concerns about global instability, secrecy, and the misuse of advanced technologies.
>Today, I listened again to the Karl Nell’s interview at the Salt Conference and he referenced how he came to his beliefs about the existence of NHI. He said, “A better way the audience can get a common understanding about what this phenomena is there is sort of two tracks here; one is first principles and the other is actually the data. **So, let’s take a look at the data. So, we can look at some folks that have very high level access to information like Paul Hellyer who is the Defense Chief for Canada has come out and said the same thing. We can look at Haim Eshed the former head of Israel’s Space Force has said the same thing**.” Does this mean people making claims = data?
Unfortunately, that's kind of how it's looking. If anyone can provide actual data, it's Nell. It's so disappointing that a guy with his resume doesn't seem to have anything for us except "I believe because those people do"
He got into the subject after leaving that role though. So he has contacts, but is basically a civilian at that point.
Paul Hellyer's video is wonderful, I hope it comes into the light again.
Interdimensional travel IS space travel. They are the same thing, still extraterrestrial. They’re just not flying rockets from point A across to point B, they dematerialize and rematerialize.
I’m a new believer since Grusch. It’s anomalous that I glossed over 64 years without realizing something big is up! I hope we learn about it soon and I hope we learn something about secrets.
As someone who was tasked with writing Government Policy on responses to critical incidents and formulating protocols for all hazard plans and having been trained extensively by NIMs and ICS standards I can say that we (Policy Designers) have to ask, what if all of this is true? Do we sit on our hands and hope these things never happen? Or do we put together plans to either counter these possibilities or produce protocols to deal with the aftermath. We now have policies to initiate for Active Shooters, which was not even considered 15 to 20 years ago. What if we never put together statewide certifications to deal with these scenarios. We would be certainly criminally negligent and more citizens would be dead as a result. So I say it is in the best interest of everyone that we have a contingency for the “what if”. Lou, Dr. Greer and Paul Hellyer make a good case to err on the side of caution. You can deny but never fail to plan, for you shall surely fail. For what I do I can never fail to plan for, or ignore to create a contingency against any critical or dangerous incident. So it’s ok to say these people have lost touch with reality but if not for them then who would you believe? Nobody apparently, so I would never want you doubters to be in charge of my safety or to formulate plans of attack as you would surely be the first ones to be eliminated.
The thing about Hellyer that has been mentioned in this sub before, is that he never got information about any of this while being an active defense minister. He got into the ET/UFO sphere after his retirement and was convinced because of a book he read. So it's very much the same as anyone in here, and that's the thing that gives me pause about Hellyer when anyone cites him as a source. I am happy someone like him is taking up the fight, but it becomes dangerous if people thinks he has wide insider knowledge and gives him more credit than reality. It also goes back to the point of circular source citing... If Nell sources Hellyer and others, where those others also use Hellyer and Nell as sources, and Hellyer cites some of the others plus his books, and the books cites some other vague source... then where does it all come from? It starts sounding like a house of cards with no bottom layer. It's the one thing post 2017 that keeps me going back and forth on the subject.
What if the knowledge Hellyer got was from his position as a Defense Minister and he can’t say that’s where he got the information? I imagine he could get into a lot of trouble if he said he discovered this information while he was a Defense Minister. There would be a lot of people demanding answers from the Canadian government right? So, what do you do? You obfuscate where you got the information so it takes the heat off the government to respond to these accusations.
RIP Paul Hellyer. But let's look further for a moment at his primay sources (plenty of videos available online): 1. A book by Philip J. Corso's, full of absurdities and inaccuracies, like the US having reverse engineered from UAPs things like Kevlar (actually invented by the chemist and researcher Stephanie Kwolek in 1965), optic fiber (actually invented by phisicist Narinder Singh Kapany during his time at Imperial College of London in 1953). and laser (actually invented in 1960 by [Theodore Maiman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Maiman)). 2. STEVEN GREER (of whom he declares to be a huge admirer), a notorious grifter lucrating on CE5 UFO contact parties. 3. Charles Hall and his funky tall white alien stories playing slot machines in Las Vegas amidst humans. 4. A phone call with an anonymous US general saying nothing more than "everything in Corso's book is true and more". He also dangerously accepts and mention every kind of conspiracy theory, like Chemtrails, Illuminati, New World Order etc. Do we really want to be that blind and accept everything it's written and said online without any critical thinking? I don't doubt the man's good faith, but as a matter of facts, an old retired person confronted with lots of free time and many unexplicable phenomenons can easily fall for conspiracy theories. EDIT: Downvotes are from conspiracy theorists unwilling to accept the truth.
The most bizarre thing is...where is the footage? We only got the 2017 videos...77 years after Roswell, we only got 2 confirmed videos... Since the internet went global in 1997, no one leaked undeniable footage.
There's a reason this meeting is called "SALT". Everything said by Nell should be taken with a grain of salt.
We probably have probed a few Aliens ourselves. We meaning the well intentioned folks in the Alphabet groups.
Hellyer had no first hand experience with anything and has made many wild claims. It’s confusing and a bit disheartening to me that Nell is bringing him up. I’m not making any conclusions yet, but there’s a chance that Nell is here to provide misinformation and not here to truly move disclosure forward. Y’all gonna downvote me that’s fine I couldn’t care less about that. We need to have a healthy skepticism towards anyone in government.
You’re absolutely correct. I’m not going to downvote you. This is healthy skepticism and not hate speech. That’s the entire reason I posted this interview. It’s pretty unbelievable and very outlandish. However, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
Good to see you, bud. Been meaning to reach because I received the same warning about mentioning a certain military installation.
Lol yes and I’ve got the screenshots saved!!!
🤔
I got mine too!
I’ve watched Hellyer videos before in the past, but the one I watched today took the cake. I never took him seriously until Nell gave his thoughts on him. Everything he mentioned about ET’s was definitely shocking. He even mentioned the “Reptilians” that I’ve always thought were a load of crap. He mentions a meeting between the E.T.’s and our military leaders that took place. I’ve heard that story before where they supposedly landed on a military base out west.on Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico in May of 1971.
Are you able to link me to that video please and many thank you’s.
Cites "the data"...provides no data Typical UFO influencer
I implore people to go a step further and see where hellyer got his info from, because if his statements are true that would make charles halls statements true, and he has an hour long interview talking about his personal interactions with aliens face to face.
ChatGPT to the rescue: Charles Hall is an American author and self-proclaimed former military meteorologist who claims to have had repeated interactions with extraterrestrials during his time stationed at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada in the 1960s. His accounts primarily involve a group of beings he refers to as the "Tall Whites." According to Hall, these beings were working with the U.S. military and lived in an underground base in the Nevada desert. ### Key Points about Charles Hall and the Tall Whites: 1. **Claims of Interaction**: Hall asserts that he had numerous encounters with the Tall Whites, describing them as humanoid in appearance, very tall (up to 7 feet or more), with white hair and pale skin. 2. **Books and Theories**: He has detailed his experiences in a series of books called "Millennial Hospitality," where he describes various interactions and the societal structure of the Tall Whites. He also suggests that these beings have advanced technology and a long history of interaction with the Earth. 3. **Military Involvement**: Hall claims that the U.S. military was aware of and facilitated his interactions with the Tall Whites, providing a controlled environment for these contacts to take place. He alleges that the military had agreements with these extraterrestrials, allowing them to use certain areas for their activities. 4. **Skepticism and Criticism**: Hall's claims have been met with skepticism from both the scientific community and UFO researchers. Critics argue that his stories lack verifiable evidence and that his accounts are more akin to science fiction than factual recounts. 5. **Public Appearances**: Despite the controversy, Hall has been a guest on various radio shows, podcasts, and conferences related to UFOs and extraterrestrial life, where he continues to share his experiences and theories. Charles Hall's stories have contributed to the broader discourse on UFOs and extraterrestrial encounters, but they remain highly debated and largely unverified within the scientific and skeptical communities.
Meh! Im not in any way clutching my perls. As there is nothing I can do about it so I'll just keep going to work so I can feed my family
There’s a myth about orangutans that they can really speak and have higher intellectual abilities than they let on, but they’ve all agreed to stay quiet on this because if the humans found out, we’d make them get jobs and pay taxes. If Hellyer’s claims are true, I’m wondering if we are the orangutans here. Once the rest of the universe knows that we know about them, we will be required to participate in intergalactic affairs.
What leverage would we have over an ultra powerful intelligence? Why would they need to “make a deal” with us at all? It’s like a superpower making a deal with an uncontacted tribe. Makes no sense when there’s such a gap in capabilities. If they want humans or human consciousness, they can just take it and there’s nothing we can do about it.
What's the sombreing truth sorry? That government gave private companies unique access?
>Please watch the clip, it was very sobering and “somber” to me 1 hour video! My brother in christ just tell us what you found "somber" about it!
The "somber tone" may have to do with what the phenomenon says about us as a species.
u/lastofthefinest, the reason their stories are similar is because they're getting them from each other. For example Hellyer cites as the sole source of his beliefs various conspiracy books he read in the mid 1990 and early 2000s. Hellyer has no first hand knowledge, testimony or experiences. He simply read conspiracy books (he positively mentions the hoaxer Steven Greer on numerous occasions). One of them, for example, is Philip Corso's infamous Roswell book, regarded as a literary hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/nov/15/news) and rejected by none other than Stanton Friedman as being filled with inaccuracies and outright lies. Elsewhere Hellyer endlessly regurgitates popular UFO lore. For example he thinks: 1. Four alien species currently live at the North Pole. 2. Jesus had alien roots. 3. The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer. 4. There are 80 species of aliens, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites. These Tall Whites can pass as humans and work inside the USAF. For this belief, Hellyer cites Charles Hall's book "Millennial Hospitality", which Hall claims he was allowed to write by the Anunnaki Race so long as he didn't provide "solid proof of their existence". 5. These aliens come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli. 6. They also come from one of the moons of Saturn, and from bases in Venus and Mars. 7. There is an alien Federation and they have a non interference rule (ie the Prime Directive from Star Trek). 8. Two brothers from Peru teleported to a Saturnian moon where they were given warnings by the aliens. 9. The aliens want us to take better care of the planet and not nuke ourselves. 10. They abduct people and take them on spaceships, but only do this to people who are "receptive". 11. Human technology like LED lights, kevlar vests, microchips and velcro are from aliens (we reverse engineered them). 12. There may soon be an interstellar war between alien races (like a bad scifi movie, the Whites are the goodies, the Reptilian-looking races are the baddies). 13. There's a conspiracy to pump the skies full of chemtrails. Hellyer's sole sources for this are trashy conspiracy books, and letters sent to him by fellow conspiracists. He's essentially a senile old kook who believes everything he comes across. Hellyer also wrote the foreword for the book "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom". It purports to be the received wisdom beamed across time and space to its psychic author from the greatest human minds (Albert Einstein, Nostradamus, Oppenheimer, da Vinci, JFK, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Gandhi, Tesla, Dwight D. Eisenhower), and also representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth. That people like Karl Nell are positively citing Hellyer is a giant red flag. Nell, who has no evidence of alien conspiracies, is mentioning a guy who has no evidence, who relies on rediculous sources, and who who believes that a magical guy called Zora lives in a Hollow Earth. Like Hellyer spun nonsense out of fragments of nonsense, Nell these days is spinning nonsense out of fragments of nonsense. And like the delusions that propagate religions, this absurd game of telephone continues onward.
I was a good friend of Paul Hellyer and he never said anything negative about ET.
I watched the PH 1:00 YT and..... he's crazy
Paul Hellyer says he learned about UFOs and NHI **after his stint in government....from internet research**. Automatically disregarded IMO. Think what you will, but that is absolutely shit and with that being the case we shouldn't see him used as a sort of "authority" on the subject.
Why would the aliens create a superhuman? What is in it for them? Like they need to make agreements with us . If they are so advanced I can’t imagine anything we could do for them would be something they would be at all interested in.And let’s just say they were ,does anyone really believe they would want or need any approval from our government s Monkeys ?