Honestly? A little deflated after thinking that would lead to some big changes shortly after. Got into a few back and forths with sceptics in the comments and although I still believe the phenomenon is real, I’m more realistic with the time frames than I was at the time.

Well the nice thing at least, is that some Congressional and Senate members are taking this seriously still, reintroducing legislation recently is a great sign they still want to tackle the issue. I think they're really pissed that there does indeed seem to be Special Access Programs skirting the authority of Congress, even if there's nothing there (which I think there is).

Sitting on it for a year without calling Grusch back in or bringing in his witness list isn't exactly "taking it seriously still".

Well, either way there's nothing anyone's going to do about it except them (Federal/exec branch doesn't have to listen to anyone except the courts and Congress). It's a non-voting issue. It doesn't determine anything with regard to political races or agendas. Either Congress and the Senate are going to legislate rules and regulations regarding this topic into place, or they're not. But at the moment, they're trying. That's more than has happened in a long, long time. So yeah I do think they're taking it seriously still. Just because they're not following your personal list of requirements doesn't mean it's not still being legislated on.

Even if there is nothing (crafts, bodies, etc), what definitely isn't there is the money that was invested in said programs. Which honestly is probably the main reason why everything is moving slowly, no one wants to be accountable for the millions that went into secret military programs. Its always about the god damn money.

Not just the money, but concepts as well. Be it different ways of creating lift or energy stuff to hold to the chest until outdated or necessary.

All we have to do is bring this to wider Congressional awareness: “these guys are secretly spending billions you could be giving your corporate masters in tax cuts!” *That* will get their attention.

I dont get why people expected quick changes. This is not an action movie, its a drawn out political thriller series.

I mean I didn't expect quick changes but I assumed Congressional follow up of a 2nd Grusch hearing would be 2-3 months later max and that the witnesses he gave would be called in either just before that or just after. 365 days later and absolutely no movement for more public hearing was NOT on my bingo card.

Exactly, we were told from the beginning that this process was going to take time. My biggest frustration at this point is still trying to get people to understand that the physical evidence everyone is demanding is a goal we have to continue working towards getting, it is not going to come first. It will have to be taken from their cold dead hands. So we all need to keep the topic pushing forward, little by little, until we have the truth.

Physical evidence will be the last thing we see right before real aliens. Im pretty sure that we will have disclosure before we get to see either of them. I would go so far to say that disclosure is neccessary before any meaningful amount of people would trust or even recognize the evidence for what it is.

I think it might just be too big an ask. If we are in possession of NHI tech then it must form one of the most powerful weapons ever seen so the security would be enormous, like in the post war period when the Soviet Union needed to get hold of the atom bomb. Interesting that in spite of the ultimate penalty given (death by electric chair) it still didn't deter the Rosenbergs, (spies motivated by ideology) from taking the risk. While technology and security will be in a different league today, it's notable we haven't had a 'UAP Snowden'. We don't expect to see granular details of the technology within hypersonic missiles, the F-35 or B-21, the nuclear submarine fleet so imo having alien technology would be a greater secret than those and I can't see that being volunteered without a very long court battle. The problem with patience is the risk of disclosure slipping down the priority list. The elections will steal energy away from UAP and momentum can easily ebb away as the information level plateaus which then needs new researchers to carry the baton.

I think we’re going to need new technology and new science before we’ll be equipped to learn anything meaningful. This phenomenon, whether another race or more like universal consciousness, is way out of our league and the government doesn’t know much more than we do. (Is my feeling.)

Yeah, maybe some of the paranormal/drug/ESP stuff the intelligence world has dabbled with were attempts to learn to control … something that’s controlled by thought?

> I dont get why people expected quick changes. Son, I’ve been following this subject since Lazar 30+ years ago. It’s been more of the same for 70+ years. This is more of the same. The government has played “investigator” before. It’s an age old back and forth. Patience doesn’t cut it anymore. It’s easy to think otherwise if you’re a recent introduction.

What is happening now is not in the slightest comparable to the last decades.

I think it's near identical. Talk of 'soft' disclosure, Phoenix Lights, Area 51 being 'uncovered', cattle mutilations, TV and movies making a lot of UFO content, there are many parallels.

How so?

Where was the whistleblower amendments for SAPs 30 years ago

The gutted UAP amendment? It was nowhere.

There was neither the legal not the social media framework to apply the pressure necessary to bring this into the light.

Social media is a recent invention my friend. There’s been plenty of government involvement and funding concerning this issue without it: [1948 USAF Project Grudge Task Force](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sign) [1952 USAF Report 1952](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book) [1953 The Robertson Panel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_Panel) [2007 Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Aerospace_Threat_Identification_Program) [2019 Committee Meeting - America in Space: Future Visions & Current Issues](https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC63909/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22Extraterrestrial%22%7D&s=2&r=10) 2019 Senate vote on the UAPTF 2021 NDAA UAP Amendment Search for the Raelian Alien cult and their 2004 congressional hearings too. They had policy passed based on their “testimony” as well. You haven’t been around the block long enough, clearly. People need to stop promoting smooth talkers who can’t front up themselves. The government won’t disclose. Any attempts to claim they will are part of the disinformation process to delay.

Right! This is huge compared to back in the day…

No exaggeration! I can vouch for that, this show's been running over 40 years for me, they need to get some new writers in.

You're being downvoted, but you are very right. This is the government we're talking about. Nothing is quick.

Government moves slowly, it moves even slower when the inevitability of brining to light something they’ve been actively suppressing is knocking on the door. They know the the disclosure is going to happen but to think it’ll be chop chop “here are the aliens, sorry everyone we lied for decades, whoopsie, it’s for your safety” is incredibly naive. The name of the game now is to pump the breaks on this whole mess (for them) as hard and as much as possible, when the time comes to finally let the cat out of the bag they’ll have whatever they needed to do finished and ready for the fallout… or a new game, likely the later.

With 500 seasons and multiple character arch’s lol … young and the restless meets west wing meets Star Trek

I think this community could do itself a huge favor by checking its expectations. People are expecting a full course meal to be plopped in front of them immediately, not understanding the time it takes to cook the meal. The steps involved. The fact that there’s other orders in front of yours. We are in disclosure right now. This is what it looks like. Congress of 2018 and prior would laugh when UAP got brought up. It didn’t get brought up. You just didn’t talk about it. Now, there’s committees dedicating most of their time to it. There’s members of Congress actively trying to investigate this. We have vetted and verified whistleblowers and witnesses. We have stories from vetted witnesses with supporting targeting pod footage. We have members of Congress with HUGE name recognition actually taking it seriously. We have really strong proposed legislation that was shot down last year and is already back on the docket. We are making STRIDES here people. These aren’t baby steps anymore. This is what disclosure looks like. Things don’t happen in an instant. To anyone dismayed by the “lack of progress” or “lack of urgency”, I simply say that you actually don’t know anything about how this country functions or the workload and timelines involved in things like this. That’s not to be rude, but it’s the truth. Objectively, if you know anything about how slow congressional movements are…. You’d be shocked by how fast and steady this UAP subject is actually moving. Not dismayed. If you’re dismayed, you had deluded notions of some Hollywood movie where the president jumps on stage and says “ladies and gentlemen, aliens are real” and then we all pack up and go home. The reality is far more complicated than that.

I’ve followed this for almost 20 years (so aware of the ups and downs in expectations) and Grusch felt like some real change. I didn’t expect things overnight but did expect more within a year.

I honestly don’t know what you could have expected more from other than the uapda passing. I mean other than that not passing we are batting 1000 and have made significant strides. We’ve already passed legislation in support of disclosure and the uapda is back up for approval. We have lists of cooperative and non cooperative witnesses and whistleblowers in the hands of Congress, locations of craft in the hands of Congress, etc. This is disclosure and it’s happening fast.

I have been following this topic for years man. I know the play by plays and how far we have got in the last year. This sub jumped up almost a million subs in that time I believe. I felt the rush of real mainstream progress during that time, random people uninterested in the topic were talking about it and we were getting daily progress updates as opposed to the ‘soon bro’ we often see during slower news times. I was hoping Grusch was going to be more of a change to the mainstream media and keep mainstream momentum but to the general public this was just the story of the week in the news cycle. Keep in mind I believe Grusch 100% and know progress is being made. After years following the topic, I guess I was caught up in the hype thinking that was the break through moment we are all hoping for.

👋

Haha here he is 🤣 I’m man enough to say you were right in terms of time frames 100%. This is going to take longer than expected haha. Although it’s not as mainstream as I would’ve liked, with all the recent news re: new legal bill by Rubio and the presentation by Karl Nell, Tim Gallaudet etc. has it moved the needle for you at all in terms of this being a real phenomenon?

If anything stuff from Karl Nell is just confirming this has nothing behind it for me given he is a conspiracy lunatic bigot that doesn't believe in vaccines or climate change, but in general no, as always talk is cheap.

I haven’t heard of any of his conspiracy (other than this topic), lunatic, bigoted behaviours (most likely because I’ve never heard of him outside this sub haha). Can you elaborate? Edit: googled Karl Nell with all of the above keywords and nothing surfaced at all. I’m gonna need some links if you’re not just trolling man.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/q3Ru6HpzKc Guess it depends on your level of acceptance for conspiracy outside of this topic, but to me someone who is perfectly happy to link himself to those topics on his LinkedIn makes the credentials on that LinkedIn pretty irrelevant for me given he has zero credibility on his critical thinking skills or ability to parse out reality from propaganda.

Thanks for this, reading now 🙏 Edit: this stuff is pretty damning and don’t know why it’s not pinned under all praise posts of him. He’s not an elected official and being crazy doesn’t get you too many promotions to the top. I wonder how he is taken so seriously at things like SALT that has the world’s top economic minds present 🤔. Looking at his vast credentials and corroboration I can believe he is telling the truth about the phenomenon while also believing he has some pretty out there views (although in all honesty, a lot of that belief is hope haha). Also, I’d be torn to pieces if everything I had ever liked on FB or LinkedIn was used against me 🤣

Well not supporting them is the first step to move Disclosure for another 500 years that is the dream of oil companies worldwide.

Things we're still waiting on: - 40 firsthand witnesses coming forward - Op-Ed piece

You'll be waiting a long time for first hand witnesses brotha

🤓 man I can’t wait till you discover there’s a 90 year global government effort to fake a phenomenon to steal from the worlds people and increase the power of the military industrial complex They really have you cheering for the worst outcome ❤️please find something that makes you happy that doesn’t involve cheering for earth’s people to be worse off

Nell and Davis came forward. It's not about 40 firsthand witnesses. Some of them are firsthand, some secondhand.

Do we know Nell is a firsthand witness though? Most recently he referenced 2 high ranking officials who also had no firsthand knowledge. I know being Grusch’s superior at one point it can maybe be assumed he may have, but I don’t recall him ever staying as such. 

We don't know if Nell  is a first hand witness. People say that to strengthen their claims and it's disingenuous.

Grusch said his 40 included first, second and third hand witnesses. Have you even been listening to his claims??

Key word in that sentence is "claims". 

No, Grusch, Graves and Fravor came forward. I've not seen Nell or Davis in public congressional testimony. Please don't water down what "come Forward" means.

Thoughts? No matter what legislation is passed and if 40 or 400 or 4000 first hand witnesses step forward Nothing will change. Pentagon will never disclose anything real. They will 100% continue their smoke and mirrors bullshit and will just keep lying like they have been for the last 80+ years The public will be kept in the dark, same as ever and these UAP programs will continue to siphon trillons of taxpayers money under the guise of "national security" This is by far the most likely outcome Programs that have been fleecing taxpayers for decades dont just end because of disclosure bills - nobody is going to step away from massive gravy train of cash flow into their pockets

I still consider it an historical moment, but I would have expected more people to come forward and new revelations pretty soon after that and I'm still waiting, I would love to know more.

Ontological shock then a realization this has always gone on. The cat and mouse game of ”2-weeks bro!” and we are just the latest fodder. 

We’re still in the same position we were a year ago. To date, [only](https://www.summarize.tech/www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Kd0J0LeG0) Eric Davis has come forward as one of the 40 witnesses. Still waiting for that elusive Op-Ed we’ve been promised since start of this year. Grusch has been quiet since the AARO report 5 months ago. We’re talking about another hearing again. We’re talking about another “fundraising” opportunity for disclosure by the usual suspects. What, Has Mellon fallen on hard times with his billions? It’s coming up [2-years](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims) since Grusch first filed his whistleblower complaint. I’m sorry but I’ve read into the [ICIG process](https://www.dni.gov) guide. It’s typically 6 months not more. Has it ended? Why are we playing this off as if we’re still waiting? People are repeating the same old excuses, because we’re getting the same old results. The only thing I have seen more of are the “trust me bros” coming out left right and center. It seems more apparent the government aren’t the only gate keepers to the truth. That is the most depressing part. Edit to add: also, why are we starting to see more promotional posts on Ufotainment? Are we a promotional sub now for every man and his dog recounting their stories? Sorry this is getting ridiculous now. Sands is a clear example of this.

I like the part where a bunch of politicians puffed out their chests and said 'well we'll break the rules and do field hearings!' and then did... Nothing. I hope another country goes right ahead and reveals the truth whatever that may be. America has lost plenty of good will globally and it's laughable to think they've earned the 'right' to gatekeep humanity.

It also kind of suggests that whatever information _is_ there is really just...not that pressing. If you were a congressperson (especially one who is in peril, like Gaetz) and you were close to unraveling a thread that would irreversibly change the fate of humanity, you'd think that field hearing might be top priority.

Its completely opposite. People are not able to understand consequences of events and discoveries. Especially politicians who care mostly about being reelected. Scientists completely ignore Nazca bodies although they should be racing for them to investigate.

>Its completely opposite. People are not able to understand consequences of events and discoveries. Especially politicians who care mostly about being reelected. I think you're missing the point. Politicians who care mostly about being reelected would be the _first_ group to bring this to light if there was hard proof. They would not just be re-elected, but would be considered heroes for time immemorial. This doesn't mean this is true or not true. It just suggests that there may not be quite enough to take the plunge yet. >Scientists completely ignore Nazca bodies although they should be racing for them to investigate. Not even going to touch this. lol

Why politicians would care about it and make it their priority if public doesn't care and they would have hostile opposition from intelligence community? Statement about Nazca bodies is perfect example - you have bodies waiting for examination but scientists ignore them although disproving them would bring them fame.

>Why politicians would care about it and make it their priority if public doesn't care and they would have hostile opposition from intelligence community? Do you really not understand this? I'm kind of bewildered here. Okay, so you're a politician. A high ranking intelligence official comes to you with a manila envelope containing photos of crash sites, recoveries and supporting documentation. Your team does the legwork and it turns out this is all legitimate. You are now in possession of information that will irreversibly change the entire world. This goes beyond having legacy as a congressperson from a fly-over state. You're now permanently going to be etched in history books for as long as history books are being made. >if public doesn't care The public has **intense** interest in aliens and ufos. The topic permeates our culture. For fuck's sake, there's even an alien and ufo emoji that comes stock on every iphone in the world. This is hardly fringe stuff. Everyday people just have a higher standard of proof than many on this sub. Photos of UFOs and stories about them from all types of people have existed since before most of us were even born. This sub _exploded_ when Grusch appeared because people _are_ interested. The reason no one is here now anymore is because...nothing happened afterward but more stories. And for average, everyday people, that suggests it's either not true or not compelling enough to pay attention to right now. >Statement about Nazca bodies is perfect example - you have bodies waiting for examination but scientists ignore them although disproving them would bring them fame. I don't really have anything to say about this. I'm not convinced they have anything to do with aliens if they're genuine and my understanding is that that they _are_ indeed being examined by actual scientists right now. I don't have any problem with the scientific community's previous reaction to them because of the pedigree of the person presenting them. If I'm a scientist, i'm not going to drop everything im doing because a guy who has grifted before claims he has the real thing this time. But my understanding is that they're in good hands right now. So we'll see?

Shut up

Does this coincide with election season?

Because is real and complicated of course. If it was fake it was easy right?

Leslie Kean reported that Karl Nell and “Jonathan Grey” were also part of the 40. It’s not clear how many among the 40 are claiming to have first hand knowledge.

If Nell counts as one of the 40, that means Grusch could be counting everyone on UAPTF as a substantial part of the 40. That number looks a lot less persuasive. What I want to know is: how many of the 40 do not have their names in public? I'm betting 10 or less.

Seems likely

Did you hear what Grusch said? Grusch made 4 year investigation during which he spoke with 40 people - multistar generals, directors of three letter agencies, senior distinguished military and intelligence officers and people who allegely are still working inside UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program.

Yes, Grusch said 4 years of investigation. Many of those individuals have been public 4+ years. Grusch’s former boss Jay Stratton was a well known participant of skinwalker ranch. He was a direct pipeline to that group. Grusch had been venturing UFO conferences seeking Knapp and co. Since 2021. I’m not sure you’re quite grasping just how carefully worded Grusch is to cover a broad set of sources. That’s your disconnect here.

You know who he spoke with during his time investigating? His colleagues on UAPTF. You know who else fit the description? The usual characters: Lue, Puthoff, Mellon, etc. And who else count under the 40? People who either said the programs are not real or told him nothing. If the asked the CIA director, "give me access to your aliens" and the CIA director said "lol no we don't have aliens," that's speaking with them in his investigation. Them denying him access is at the heart of his investigation, so it makes sense the people who denied him access count as part of the 40.

> If the asked the CIA director, "give me access to your aliens" and the CIA director said "lol no we don't have aliens," that's speaking with them in his investigation. Bingo. You know Grusch could put this all to rest if he just substantiated some of his claims for once. None of this lawyer speak. There was absolutely no reason for him to hide Eric Davis during the hearing. Same with Jay Stratton, who had title 50 to access a SCIF readily. The guy gives more questions than answers.

Great mental gymnastics. 'I know better than Grusch whom to Grusch has spoken to'. And people who allegely works inside UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program according to are Mellon or paid actors? Because obviously you know that Grusch didn't speak with people who work inside program.

We’ve seen “UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering” programs… Tom DeLonge, Chris Mellon, Hal Puthoff, Jim Semivan, and Lue Elizondo were playing with “meta materials” when they worked at TTSA. They even showed it on Elizondo and Mellon’s history channel show. Jaques Vallee, Garry Nolan, Linda Moulton Howe have all also had these “retrieved” parts.

I don’t know what you’re getting at here? If there are 12+ samples of different materials some are likely to be bunk and others could be the real deal. We can all read the paper on the Council Bluffs case, and they have mentioned the Ubatuba material before, but there is a lot more we haven’t heard about. I can’t even speculate about what all they may or may not have.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230617143819/https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/jun/17/aliens-ufo-uaps-us-defence-government-coverup-david-grusch >Sara Russell, a planetary scientist from the Natural History Museum in London, said that, "if you give me an alloy, it would take me less than half an hour to tell you what elements are in it", and that "it should be easy to understand whether something falling to Earth is man-made or extraterrestrial, and if it is the latter, whether it is naturally occurring or not".

> Sara Russell, a planetary scientist from the Natural History Museum in London, said that, "if you give me an alloy, it would take me less than half an hour to tell you what elements are in it", That might be the case, but Garry has mentioned the cost of analysis is $10k-$20k per sample. And in the Council Bluffs sample they already found strange isotope ratios. Not seemingly at the point of proving anything concrete yet, but still worth investigating.

Did they saw full craft, like Grusch alluded? No. It boggles my mind how some people have problem with reading the text and statements. But hey, if someone wants to fool himself that knows better than Grusch whom Grusch has spoken to then go ahead.

Grusch was not specific enough. We don’t know how many of Grusch’s 40 were first hand witnesses and we don’t know what evidence those first hand witnesses witnessed. It’s possible he talked to people who first hand witnessed bits of crash and also talked to people who only had information of intact craft.

He said they touched craft in interview with BBC.

Calm down and reread. That is, of course, not what I said. I said "could" and "fit the description." I did not say "are on the list."

I’d wager a decent portion of his 40 can be sourced from individuals who are already publicity known. I base this on the fact Eric Davis had come out as one of them. **Alex Dietrich** [Nimitz witness] She’s well known on the Ufology circuit where she gives speeches. Connected to David Fravor and well respected. Her husband Michael Greene is also a former (claimed) AATIP employee that worked closely with Elizondo. **Michael Greene** is on the board of “Americans for safe aerospace” and I think was also a Nimitz witness? That’s *3 suspects down** with Eric Davis. **Avi Loeb** [Scientist]. Knows Grusch and is a second hand witness via material he (reportedly) claims. **4 suspected whistleblowers now**. **Bob Lazar** [Whistleblower] - because why not? Grusch would have had free access to him through Knapp… and none of Grusch’s statements would preclude him from that list. **Five now**. **Christopher Mellon** [Intelligence] because he’s purportedly in possession with material evidence. Another automatic witness that Grusch can freely access. **Diana Pasulka** [Academic] **David Fravor** [Military] because the guy literally came in as a witness next to Grusch. Tic Tac guy. **Garry Nolan** [Scientist] because he was abducted as a child and purportedly holds material evidence. **Luis Elizondo** [Intelligence] because Luis had publicity stated he “groomed” Grusch. Nothing excludes him. **Jay Stratton** [Military] was Grusch’s direct boss at the UAPTF. Yea, a lot of people forget that. **Karl Nell** [Military] cause Leslie keen claimed he was one. **Michael Herrera** [Military] because why not? **Roberto Pinto** [Author] is a source for the magenta Italian crash. **Ryan Graves** [Military] - see Fravor and deidrickson. **Timothy Gallaudet** [Military] because he vouched for Grusch’s sourcing from the start. **Tom DeLonge** [Advocate] purportedly has material evidence. **William Brophy** [Author] is connected to Magenta Italian crash too. That’s 18 there alone. **Jason Sands** came out claiming he was one of them. Grusch hasn’t denied himself and Sands is on record as being in contact. That’s **19** now. We can add is **Corbell** as another material witness to make it a sweet **20**. That’s 20 of his 40 right there. Nothing in his statements precludes them. Nolan is a friggen **abductee** for goodness sakes. That don’t get any more “first hand” right there. Through Knapp and company he could have sourced plenty of “witnesses”. It’s not hard. Some could be unknown. Sure. But that doesn’t make it any less concerning. [Here’s 25 leading military men](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/wrkTB8Nl5A) that have already gone public. Many are “multi-star”.

2 more should be on there as pretty definite: Puthoff, and Travis Taylor. Puthoff is commonly considered a firsthand witness by these guys. Some maybes: Lacatski because he has said he won't testify under oath (which is hilarious and a giant red flag). Esheid, because of Nell's comments? Targ? Bigelow? I am fairly confident he counts the people who denied him access as having firsthand knowledge of these SAPs. Some on your list I think probably not: I'm a little skeptical he actually talked to Pinotti. But if he did speak to Pinotti, it's likely he also spoke to Lissoni. Also pretty skeptical of Pasulka. Herrera said he spoke to AARO, so I would expect him to say if he spoke to Grusch and I don't remember him claiming that. I really hope he didn't talk to Brophy. That would have to be the final nail in Grusch's credibility if he did. There's a number of UAPTF (and AATIP?) members who are not publicly known. I'd feel safe guessing around 5. UAPTF never had access to these SAPs, so they also can't be firsthand witness.

Grusch has stated first second and third hand witnesses. He’s pretty much covered himself for a “I told you so” explanation if his list ever gets out.

great post and following on from yours and u/panoisclosedtoday posts, it's sometimes tricky to track the connections between these people and I kind of make a big chart to identify them. It's evident how much of an influence John Lear was for example. The other big one is Harold Puthoff. Connections everywhere; intelligence agencies, government, religion, academia. I can't profess to knowing what these guys actually 'do' but I would be fairly confident that it won't be passing any tests on ethics, that's for sure.

Can you share it? It is indeed hard to keep it straight.

How difficult is it for you to listen to David Grusch to see what he said about this subject? You gave absurd list including pilots and Lazar. He said he never spoke to Lazar who is irrelevant. Why not bother to listen to Grusch or at least listen to description of this post? Multistar generals, directors of three letter agencies, senior distinguished military and intelligence officers and people who work in crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. That's his sources.

> You gave absurd list It would be. Yes. Why do you think he’s so tight lipped? He had no reason to hide Eric Davis, for example. > How difficult is it for you to listen to David Grusch 11 hours of interview material now. It is difficult to go through hours of vague and cryptic talk to get tid-bits of details. Piecing them together is something else. > Multistar generals, directors of three letter agencies, senior distinguished military and intelligence officers Yes. Check my post again. > and people who work in crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. Are you familiar with Lazar and Davis? Lol, Luis’ story is literally that. He’s second hand. Do you know Jay Stratton had title 50 access when he oversaw the UAPTF with Grusch under him? You do know Tim Guillemot is a multi-star admiral? Grusch has ranged his sources as first second and third. I know. Shocking.

Who is Jonathan Grey?

>According to Kean, she vetted Grusch by interviewing Karl Nell, a retired Army colonel who was also on the UFO task force, and "Jonathan Grey" (a pseudonym) whom Kean described as "a current U.S. intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC)". Kean wrote that Nell called Grusch "beyond reproach" and that both Nell and "Grey" supported Grusch's claim about a secret UFO retrieval and reverse engineering program. Keep in mind that Nell also holds Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed in high regard apparently. Stating we should look to them to understand his “no doubt” position that NHI are “interacting with humanity.”

Which is frustrating, since those 2 individuals came to their conclusions based off public ufo books and shows, not actual firsthand experience in their respective positions. I feel like we keep repeating his references to those 2 without critical analysis of their claims in the first place. Straight up appeal to authority, and a poor response by nell imo to the question asked. Sort of a bad look, imho

Good points, especially the ICIG process. We assume it's going forward, but it may as well be blocked, stalled, put on ice and we wouldn't know.

Or finished and they found nothing in the end.

After Congress scif hearing one of the politicians said that icig had found evidence for some of Grusches claims, but the alien/uap reverse engineering wasn't one of those. So, yes to usual mismanagement and lack of oversight, but no to hiding alien bodies and spacecraft. But that was just the icig.

That is also what the legal agency that Grusch hired said. And that is pretty much what anyone sane thought from the start, yes.

'Anyone sane' - people who never bother to look into the details of Roswell, Varginha, Kingman cases and listen to testiomonies, reports and affidavits of firsthand eyewitnesses. But hey, obviously all those people just lied to earn millions of dollars, just like Grusch who never saw anything and reported it to ICIG who checked the case and found nothing substantial about it. That's the sane truth. If ICIG found anything he would tell it to Redditors.

Uhm yes, some of us, me included, bothered to look into it in great detail, and listen to testimonies (because that's all there is). What can I tell you, people repeating things other people told them (sometimes for money, like the girls in Varginha case) is all that - just a fancy made up story to some of us.

'People repeating things other people told them' - I have only one question for you, how many firsthand eyewitnesses are from Roswell and Varginha cases, people who claim to see craft or bodies? Simple question so I'm sure you will give me informative answer if you 'made your own research'. I'm waiting.

ICIG is not allowed to give any of that information to politicians, not even to the AARO. Even he knows, he can't say it. But explaining it to the guy who for months spread misinformation on this website about 1933 Italy crash retrieval 'because of Billy Brophy' is a waste of time.

The icig website says that he is required to report any serious violations he discovers to house oversight committee. An 80 year secret UFO program that's kept secret from everyone would qualify, no? Yes the source of Gruschs Mussolini UFO retrieval story is Billy Brophy, a known fantasist. You can also ask yourself why that craft retrieval is not classified information and DOPSR allowed him to talk about it.

If that was the case they would make sure that everybody knows.

Who would make so? I'm pretty sure the ICIG wouldn't be allowed to publicly say anything on the matter, and I'm also pretty sure that the UFO camp would keep quiet on what they would see as bad news for their "cause".

The same people that leaked his medical records in attempt to make him look bad would to be able to leak a conclusion from the ICIG that would make him look bad.

Because everything is real and complicated?

If it’s taking longer than the standard time, it typically means there are lots of complexities. Meaning they have a lot to work with but are having trouble validating… but it can’t be thrown out as bunk. Grusch remains the most believable of everyone. That he is no longer in public eye, that is reinforced. But the reasons why may be concerning 1) he is in danger 2) he has burnt out (remember he struggles with ptsd 3) he may have realised he has been misled 4) other. I’m not gonna claim to know, because I don’t have information. The missing oped is disappointing, however AARO’s report may have necessitated a rewrite, or might relate to number 3 above. Or other. However the lack of release means they have missed that first mover opportunity. I’d love to hear more from him. But I’m not hopeful of hearing from him any time soon.

I think what it is, is that the left hand isn't communicating with the right.  Part of the government wants disclosure, some other part doesn't, & it's all sending mixed signals up the chain on what's to be done.

David Grusch is full of shit.

Grusch offers nothing besides credible credentials; REALITY is he is just another ‘I know things’ who provides no substantial evidence. Yes, Grusch is the highest ranking intelligence officer to ever make claims we have all heard before, but besides that he offers the UFO/UAP community nothing of substance. There is nothing in the The Debrief article that introduced us all to Grusch. Basically the story is multiple high ranking whistleblowers have come forward to tell congress what everyone in congress has all heard before. Back in 1947 there were also multiple high ranking individuals who claimed that the U.S. government has crash evidence and bodies from alien beings. That was 77 years ago and in my opinion much more credible than what this Grusch guy is claiming to know, all he is stating is ‘I have heard things’ who cares WE HAVE ALL HEARD THINGS! Unfortunately there is nothing new here and this will again lead to nothing besides Grusch making the same online media rounds and making the same old claims. Those associated with Roswell in 1947 were more credible than this guy and 70+ years later we still have no proof of anything they claim they saw. Bob Lazar is a thousand times more believable and credible than Grusch, but again nothing came of his claims. Grusch did an interview and made a bunch of OMG claims on a nothing news channel and I’m willing to bet after that there was nothing else. That is why the MSM is not covering this story, because there is nothing to cover, it is just another person claiming to know things who provides zero evidence of what he is claiming. No different than if I held a national televised interview and told the world about what I heard took place in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, I could state I heard the following “a UFO crashed, there were alien bodies, there was a military cover up”. After reading The Debrief article and watching Grusch’s interview I see nothing to be excited about. I would rather watch Lazar’s original documentary over-n-over again than listen to this guy. I hate to see a bunch of buzz about nothing, this keeps happening but no proof is ever presented. Elizondo, Mellon, Nolan, Greer, Bigelow and now add Grusch to the list of those who claim to know people who have told them things. Lazar has been the only individual to tell the world anything substantial but again he provided no proof. In the last 6 years the only evidence released has been from the Pentagon. The tic-tac/gimbal/metal orb/triangles/cubes and something going into the water, all these blurry images and videos came from the U.S. government. Nothing comes from any of the people who keep claiming they know things, evidence only comes from who they all keep claiming is covering everything up. I believe if there is ever any mind boggling no doubt proof it will come from a leak from an unidentified person. Which would be easy to do today. In the modern online era of the last twenty years not a single leak of indisputable UFO evidence has ever been leaked, nothing. Think about that; that tells me that that there is nothing to reveal other than what has already been revealed. At this point no one in the UFO/UAP community should get excited unless the military opens the S4 hangar doors and shows us alien spacecraft and opens up a body cooler containing dead aliens. I feel no one should make a public statement about what they know unless they were in a secret program themselves and can provide verifiable proof of non-human technology. Until that day comes this is all just a waste of everyone’s time and discredits the community in the eyes of the general public. Someone like Grusch does more harm than good, like all the ‘I know people, I have heard things’ these individuals keep repeating the same thing and unfortunately it seems they are mostly only interested in promoting themselves.

I'm grateful that I only heard about Grusch's claims a month ago and became engrossed in it. It must be so frustrating for those who have been following for the last year. Sadly, I am also thinking we are not going to see much action until after the presidential election.

that's my thought too. The whole topic can be chucked into the political equivalent of 'development hell'.

I’m not sure how to take any of this. There is no definitive proof on the table as yet. Right now we have impressive credentials and amazing claims. But the claims have always been around, just now it looks like we are moving into the mainstream with these stories. The problem I have with all of this is we are watching a process that would be the same or similar given two different scenarios: If you wanted to force disclosure of secret programs involving alien tech, it might look exactly like what is happening now. But, if you wanted to convince a lot of people that there were aliens around, when there in fact weren’t any aliens, this is also what that process might look like. The “blue beam” thing is probably overstated, but a program to get more people believing in aliens and the supernatural could be very useful. If you control people’s beliefs, you can also control their behaviors and outcomes with relative ease. This is an old game that the robber barons have been playing since before the first cities were built. We may just be looking at the rise of a new religion. …or there are aliens watching our nuclear facilities and arsenals. One of the two.

Yeah, I think about the blue beam thing all the time and wonder if that's what's happening. The reason I think that's not the case is that it would never work in the long term. There's no way you can fake an alien invasion. Maybe you can for like a year tops, but people would eventually start wondering where the hell they are. Kind of like they are right now lol My guess is there's something actually going on in some deep, top-secret programs. Whether it's alien tech or just super advanced human tech, who knows... but there's no way this whole thing is a nothing burger.

I personally think the Grusch story is done and unless first hand witnesses come forward with evidence this isn't going anywhere. I think the fact the usual suspects have started a fund to lobby pols is telling, there would be no need for that if they knew somebody was waiting in the wings to drop some real evidence.

we were promised early to mid 24. Stuff in the pipeline but it full of a lardberg. I wonder if we can get ICIG I our side or put pressure on it seems they are used as an excuse to restrict or slow info release. The next bill needs to focus on info being released unless major issue rather than keeping it secret and only releasing once checked.

I'm pissed that in 365 days from then NOBODY ELSE came forward. And Grusch wasn't brought back. Like, what the actual fuck is going on that nobody else stepped up, that the witnesses Grusch gave weren't brought in a week, or month later?

nothing burger. u all got played.

He is a patsy selected by some SAP’s counter intelligence apparatus to spread disinformation. He had probably figured this out by now and is faced with the prospect of coming out and saying “never mind that nonsense” or leaning into the grift for personal benefit. His changing story makes me think the latter, he now has first hand experience 🙄

He never changed the story and please tell me why they try to 'spread disinformation' if official UFO government office AARO claim there is nothing to it?

He did change his story, belatedly saying he had first hand experience months after telling everyone hearsay. I’d suggest to you that they are trying to disguise the fact that the Yankees have electrogravitics applications … or just trying to distract China

Grusch from beginning said he has firsthand knowledge. This argument is one of many lies put forward against him. People never bother to listen to him so they can form their own informative arguments about what he knows and whom he spoke.

Source for Grusch saying he had first hand knowledge ab initio?

This is in his congressional hearing and glossed over many times by people who like to say he only has second hand knowledge. Rep Moskowitz asked him about UFOs in satellite imagery and Grusch replied that he had observed UFOs on satellite imagery and other “tactical platforms” that were beyond explanation even with his degree in physics. You can go to the hearing on CSPANs website and search the transcript for satellite imagery to find the exact moment in the hearing where this was discussed.

Two months earlier he was interviewed and didn’t mention that, in fact, it was reported: In the interview, Grusch reiterated that he has not personally seen the evidence of nonhuman technology but that intelligence officials he spoke with as part of his role on the UFO task force have told him of its existence.

Grusch said he wasn’t first hand on his NewsNation interview. He had since claimed he “misinterpreted” what that meant.

One government agency says there is nothing to it, another government employee says there is something to it. Who to believe? Both and no one, because both are true and false - there is nothing to it in a sense that there are no NHI anywhere, and there is something to it in a sense that there are hidden programs and corruption going on. The murky waters suit both sides of the story.

After watching some video clips about all that story, who is who and how it really started - I think this is a big lie and just the same group of people from skinwalker ranch are trying to milk believers and add some money to their weak retire pension. Earlier I also thought that this might be the biggest prank job in the history of human kind on that poor grush, but when I saw pictures of grush with these Smurfs I realised he just joined them for money.

Grusch made 4 year investigation during which he spoke with 40 people - multistar generals, directors of three letter agencies, senior distinguished military and intelligence officers and people who allegely are still working inside UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. David Grusch claimed he saw photographic evidence, documents, reports and that he has some kind of other first hand knowledge. Grusch provided testimony to General Inspector of Intelligence Community who deemed his allegations credible and urgent.

You should tell congress then. Waste of the NDAA and all that or your full of it

All I can say is this topic lost way more steam than I thought. And anti-science guys like Karl Nell make it worse. I’m just praying that Grusch doesn’t turn up like that. If it happens, I will leave.

Just curious in what way does Karl Nell seem anti-science? I would've pegged that label on Lue sooner than Karl.

His LinkedIn activity is full of liking climate change denial posts, transphobia and anti-vaccines. [This comment has receipts](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/off7d9eHN2)

Oh jeez, that's a horrible, horrible look. This, along with Lue's backyard shenanigans, Danny Sheehan's outlandish claims, Ross Coulthart's UFO "degree" program, Robert Bigelow's massive trump donations, and skinwalker ranch, this is starting to look fake as hell. Goddamn

It's so "perfect" that I would almost half-believe it was a play to dispirit everyone. Blow a bunch of smoke up our ass about Nell, feed the hype and keep it going for several months... only for us to hear that he won't use his former position/knowledge to add unique insight, and knowing we'd discover he has been a ball of yikes on LinkedIn for a couple years. If that were the case, well played.

His account was made in 2008 and was active since then. It’s too long and unnecessary play. And won’t Grusch knew if this was the case?

Near as I can tell, the dodgy stuff Nell posted/engaged with was mostly around 2020 (covid) and onwards. Grusch came out like a year ago or so, and Nell was already backing him up with his account history being as it was. Obviously I don't think we're in a reality in which this was orchestrated. But when it worked out so beautifully to the advantage of anyone who might want us to disengage and shut up, it's like *god damn* lol

I feel like a lunatic posting this over and over, but I think it's important the info is out there. There are many more examples here. https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d8empd/zero_doubt_they_attack_karl_nells_credibility_and/l7663pe/

I'll be a lunatic right along side you. A dedicated post with that info wouldn't be able to stay afloat

Honestly kinda disappointed. My hopes were very, VERY high like most of us but there was almost no progress at all. I do believe him and almost all the characters that came into scene with this, but things are going like drops of petroleum. We NEED disclosure asap. I'm not from the States, I'm from South America, so this is not a threat to national security like up there, but this subject matters to all humanity.

I think when they met privately congress found out the guy didn't have any evidence of anything and is just another blow-hard spouting off about his "beliefs" on the matter, which is not good enough anymore. I don't care how credible a source seems to be. If you have no evidence, or if your evidence is still withheld from the public, it does nothing but hurt the cause.

I feel like we are in the exact same place we were on June 4, 2023. Nothing has changed. Nothing seems to be changing. I've begun to lose faith in this whole movement. I'm not yet convinced Grusch's claims are entirely accurate (not saying he's a liar, just that he may have been mislead and/or misinterpreted things), but if they are true, I am convinced the government will keep a lid on it. There's a good reason that 99% or so of the people involved in this alleged program stay in the shadows - either they agree with keeping it a secret or there is legitimate fear of what will happen to them if they come public. And anyone who is brave enough to come forth just gets discredited and not believed anyway. Basically, I see no path forward. I do not think "disclosure" is anywhere close to happening.

I think the entire saga is kind of sad. We have a group of UFO celebrities selling hope to a community of people so willing to believe it they will not even consider evidence to the contrary. The idea that there is a higher authority out there that can solve humanities problems is enticing so I get it. A cursory look into any of their backgrounds immediately throws up red flags however.

Grusch got used and served his purpose. He's a discarded asset now. Unfortunately for the people that used him, the UAPDA didn't pass and they can't capitalize off disclosure that isn't happening. So instead, UFOlogy is being turned into some bad daytime soap opera where the only thing missing are the UFOs.

That was a year ago? Shit

the chinese balloon - alaska shootdown - congress hearing saga is peak ufology. felt like a xfiles season finale. unfortunately without evidence its just stays like that. a fiction series

At first I was like woooo, a year later I'm like hmmmmm.

Honestly? I was kind of hardcore and optimistic about it last year but I’ve truly stopped believing in it entirely

Grusch is the only one among them that I 100% believe without reservation that he believes he is telling the truth. He's the only one of the IC lot who risked anything at all by going under oath. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's enough to go anywhere. The public needs proof to believe it, and any proof that exists might be held by entities that piss on any law that attempts to tell them what to do. It's the option with the best chance of success, as dismal as it is.

More has happened in the last couple of years than I ever thought possible in my lifetime. When I was a teenager in the 90s I thought I would die before any form of disclosure occurred. Now I honestly believe it could happen by the end of the decade. Wild.

Man I think I came off the buzz after the Op-ed was postponed. The best thing about this is heheh you’re not reading about aliens, then you can read about US Government stuff. Like I read what assets border control and Amtrak have, reports on the DoE, and now the drone incursions. If anything it’s all a wild ride when you start reading into the expanse of the Pentagon, and government.

Basically the heat has died out of the issue and we’re now back to BAU.

I want to believe him and generally find his story credible based on my own experience doing intelligence in the military, but there is one point I'm stuck on that I can't get past. He was cleared by DOPSR for some of his interviews where he talks about the retrieval program. That means, almost by definition, anything he said during those interviews is not classified. Now it is possible that DOPSR doesn't have access to that data and therefore cannot block release because they don't have proof it is classified, and I'm sure some will see it as a mind-game kind of thing, but it just seems off to me. He wouldn't be cleared by DOPSR to release classified information, he was cleared by DOPSR for what he has released so far, therefore what he has spoken about is not classified which means it should fall under FOIA, but no one has dug it up yet. Even if it were done through a private company, the government side of things could be FOIA'd.

The biggest change itself is this sub. It blew up in popularity, had an incredible amount of daily users in June 2023…now, it ebbs and flows with bots and very obvious troll/disinformation accounts whenever something hits the news cycle. Still holding out hope in catastrophic disclosure, because after the events of December 2023, it’s never been more clear the coverup is happening actively.

>People who don't agree with me are bots. The old classic.

Lol alright 👍🏻

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Just not worth arguing man. I don’t care about your comment.

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Looking at your comment history, you’ve been BOMBARDING this sub with negative comments, incessantly. Ironic for you to accuse me of bot activity lol. Keep doing you, don’t worry about getting fresh air. You definitely don’t need it.

It's what sparked my dormant interest in this topic, but now it looks like a sales pitch for a long con. I'd love to stand corrected one day, though.

David grusch, now nell? 1 year. Were doing great.

Wait, when did Nell do what Grusch did? Did he give sworn public Congressional testimony when I wasn't looking? Why are we equating these two?

He’s the real deal and they’re clearly covering it up. Seems obvious more than ever

1 year later and I have completed a full year of daily research into the subject. From not believing in UFOs at all prior to Grusch, to being the most knowledgeable person I know about the subject. It's clear we're undergoing UAP Disclosure.

I think that we have reached the point where the next step, really, is the POTUS or the equivalent position or another major global power coming forth and making and official announcement. This, though, can happen if the pressure is kept up, both through the legislative means (like Robert Garcia's proposals) and whistleblowers/first-hand witnesses coming forth. Things like Col. Nell telling things to serious investors and Adm. Gallaudent being on the national TV broadcast in the US are important, though. It's all raising awareness and preparing the ground. While we, who follow the topic much more closely than the average member of the public, definitely would want to know more, I still consider it not the worst place to be right here and now. As long as we do not let it all fizzle out and do whatever little is in our power - be it messaging our representatives/MPs/politicians, raising the topic on social media, etc., we are still moving forward, even if only at a glacier's pace.

Feels like it's been a few months.

It’s great that we’re getting closer to truth. However, like most have said, our current situation won’t really change until we have more proof and more people involved. There are negative things happening on this planet currently and we can’t wait around for UAPs to solve them. It’s a divisive time and having everyone rally around aliens doesn’t seem likely right now. I think it can bring humanity together, but there are many distractions and other problems that need attention too. People that are starving or dying don’t necessarily want to hear about UFOs.

When I first saw him in video he seemed a bit quirky and nonserious. The word I'm going for is cavalier actually. But this might just be his normal personality when he is under pressure in an interview.

That the government is working very diligently to produce a bullshit disclosure for civilians plan

Not a Ship Or alien body yet? At this point its just a phycological OP to fuck with people.

Can’t believe that was a year ago already

Bro, he said he knew the exact locations of the crafts and bodies. He said he'd given this info to the IG. So why are we here a year on and have NOTHING? How hard is it to go check those locations? 🙄

I can still hear the 60 year old redditor laughing at me, telling me it's always a massive hype and another "soon". Maybe one day we'll be that guy.

This is not the first attempt at disclosure and it probably won't be the last....the government have essentially won the chess game sadly. The only solution is to outsource UAP and related research.

I think it's time to unsubscribe from this sub. Nothing exciting is happening anytime soon. Progress has been made, but it's boring and slow. 

A year, and still no verifiable evidence anything he said is factual.

Its been a whole damn year already? And we're still basically where we were.

We need an NHI pen/toilet roll/anything we can touch, because the authorities are not going to disclose anything.

You know if true, at some point I mean far future, the language most people are going use is that this coverup was all a crime against humanity.

Important to me as it was the moment I began to take the subject seriously, to take just a cursory dive and realize that all the elements your run of the mill detective would use to solve a case (photographic evidence, video evidence, testimonials, first hand witnesses from all walks of life, police reports, military reports, government documents, plentiful corroborations across geography and time) were all present and all very credible, and a logical assumption to be found is this. Non-human crafts (by which I mean, intelligently designed, intelligently crafted, and intelligently navigated) and non-human beings have been present on our planet going back at least 100 years, (possibly thousands of years.). A handful of Nation State's have clandestine programs to recover any and all materials related to these crafts and beings, to research in secrecy. They also espouse a policy of total denial of this to the point of fostering ridicule and contempt for the topic. Most important of all, since then, I've had at least 4 different experiences that defied classification as anything I've ever experienced in my life, before or after. Some of these experiences occurring mid-day, while I was fully conscious, and under normal and healthy physiological conditions. I am incredibly grateful to whatever Non-human intelligence (or intelligences) presented themselves to me. Personally, I'm far beyond needing government disclosure but I feel for all of you who have that needling pressure in the back of your head, telling you there's something hear, but just needed that extra bit of supporting evidence, that must be a terrible itch not to be able to scratch.

things are exactly where they would have been if grusch didn't exist. as expected

Been watching every Grusch interview and public appearances out there. In a nutshell I think he’s full of it, it’s like either you are a whistleblower and you full on “put your lips on the whistle and blow as hard as you can” (direct translation- reveal everything that you know including names, locations, dates of whatever claims that you make or claim to know) or you *claim* to be a whistleblower, thus while being asked any substantial question you respond with “yea.. I can’t get into that” like you still wanna cover up for whoever is keeping this information.

On 5 June 2023 David Grusch, Major in US Air Force, intelligence officer working with top secret clearance at National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and National Reconnaissance Office, decided to go public about the top secret information he gathered during his work in UAP Task Force. Grusch claimed that US government recovered non human craft and bodies. Grusch said that there is secret reverse engineering program when US is trying to understand this technology. Grusch made 4 year investigation during which he spoke with 40 people - multistar generals, directors of three letter agencies, senior distinguished military and intelligence officers and people who allegely are still working inside UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. David Grusch claimed he saw photographic evidence, documents, reports and that he has some kind of other first hand knowledge. Grusch provided testimony to General Inspector of Intelligence Community who deemed his allegations credible and urgent.

>and that he has some kind of first hand knowledge. He's been inconsistent about that

No he wasnt. He said about it multiple times, including official hearing.

And he has also said the opposite mutiple times.

He said he didn't see bodies but didn't say he didn't see craft.

It’s going exactly as expected. I thought that his book would have been announced but I guess he’s delaying it until Lue’s has been released.

I still believe all of them, i don’t expect answers anytime soon though but i do believe they are still working on it. The way i see it either NHI is here on earth or the government wants to try and create a new religion to help govern our society.

I 100% believe it. Bob lazar said that same thing years ago. Also given David’s credentials, if you aren’t going to believe him then WHO are you going to believe? He also never said anything THAT outlandish. All he said is that the U.S. has a program to capture and reverse engineer crashed UFOs. Relative to the whole world of crazy UFO lore that is pretty basic…

It's the inherent problem of living in a giant security state, with an overblown defense budget, and countless 3 letter agencies. There is no way to properly account for or monitor what happens behind the scene in secrecy, whether it's the discovery of aliens or aberrantly amoral practices. Some stuff filters out, but you can never know the full extent of what's really going on. It should be self evident that this absence of transparency is incompatible with representative democracy. You'd think that the purported revelation of hidding the biggest and most shocking scientific discovery in history to the whole of humanity for decades would clearly demonstrate how such structures and institutions are fundamentally problematic and should be dismantled. Yet the insiders making these revelations, still petition for a controlled and incomplete disclosure to continue business as usual. There can be no true resolution to this question and many more until the veils of secrecy are completely lifted and we start living in an open and transparent society.

I’ve watched a few initiatives crawl through the lower house of Congress that are related to this, but they’ll have little teeth or ability to enforce any of it, if they manage to get any of it passed. DG says a lot, but hasn’t really produced anything substantial - at the end of the day he’s just another guy with wild stories. I’m glad he’s taking the legal whistleblower steps to make what he claims to know public, but nothing so far. There’s a lot of disinformation agents at work in this area like Richard Doty and Lue Elizondo that cannot be trusted - that intentionally muddy the waters to sell books or command hefty speaking fees at conventions. I’m not suggesting DG is in that camp, but I rule nothing out. The Nimitz encounter with David Fravor is the last testimony Ive heard that sounds compelling, mostly because he comes with video evidence and multiple pilot witnesses that flew under his command, that day. Each of those airmen saw this stuff with their eyes, recorded it on an array of 18 advanced instruments (some of which are classified), per aircraft. They had it on the radar/detection systems on the aircraft carrier that deployed them, and multiple sorties of aircraft got data that day. He claims that all 6,000 people aboard that vessel knew what happened. They observed these craft for 2 weeks before they sent fighters to check it out in lieu of a training mission. This guy has everything Lue, David Grusch, or anyone else does not. Saw with Eyes. Arrays of independent Instruments recorded event on the jets and Aircraft carrier group. They brought the video. It doesn’t get much better than this, unless you’re waiting to actually touch a UAP, yourself

The video was recorded by someone other than Fravor at a later time.

Disclosure is political and big things in congress and the senate take time. The bipartisan support for the issue has grown louder since grusch's testimony. Aaro's report was unsatisfying and lacked serious rigour, appeared more like a pr exercise than a scientific report, and aaro is to be audited. The admissions about unidentified, so called "drones" operating above sensitive labs and military bases is intriguing when taken in context of historical reports of uap activity around nuclear sites.

He's telling the truth and he's correct in his assertions. The more delaying and obfuscation that happens only makes me want blood. The people running the programs need to start fearing the people they're stealing from and lying to. Edit: People like Kirkpatrick and his family should be forced to pay back all the money they took to lie to us while not doing what they were paid for and aside from that he belongs in prison.

All the usual suspects in the comments, today.

And if it wasn’t? Would we be calling for newbie brigadiers? It seems we cannot win now can we? You’re either a “usual suspect” or a “bot” with too few karma. So long as you don’t tow the narrative, you’re a something. When one can’t substantively engage.

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