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Possible unpopular opinion here.
But given you are married - I’d have expected you to be saying:
‘WE have saved £295k’
Which is a great place for 36 and 34 year old couple compared to most. But if you’re married then you are a team and need to view it as such.
Theres obviously a balance between having some of your ‘own’ money but in the big picture, you both are on eachothers side.
Communication has to be key here
Have you done a retrospective budget together where you both write down everything you spent in the last month? Or even three?
You might find there are expenses you haven’t even considered she is covering (all those friends birthday presents, holidays, household items and flea treatments for the dog all add up… just examples!) which might help you understand what’s going on.
Or Maybe she knows you are saving 1k a month for your combined future so thinks you are comfortable with her covering more of the discretionary lifestyle spend?
It sounds maybe like there is some possible resentment building if you don’t open it all up to each other and talk about it so both can see the full picture, it isn’t going to go well.
But really think about your approach, if you start from ‘you are holding me back’ you might start down a road you wish you weren’t meaning to go on. If you start from a ‘let’s communicate and really understand so WE can build the best plan for US’… maybe some changes will happen which will be what you want and she will
Save more, or maybe you will understand more about it where it all goes and feel less negative about it.
This is both morally and legally correct. If you are married it is shared resources.
Does she do most of the food shopping? Meals
Out? Holidays? Have you spoken about how you want to live your lives? What is the opportunity cost of being overly frugal?
Expecting my support to be downvoted.
Having looked at OPs post history, there's also a child which, slightly bafflingly, hasn't been mentioned so assuming this is also her child a) his wife probably had a period where at best she was earning substantially less and b) she likely picks up most of the day to day on that. I find it very bizarre that OP has chosen to overlook this piece of information.
I was reading this wondering if they had a child as historically, women typically foot the majority of the bill for child costs, these two definitely need to write down their spends and budget.
Exactly right, honestly OPs post just feels kinda gross. If you aren't a partnership with your wife then why be with her?
Also, it is pretty typical if one of the household is a high earner, then the other likely has to make compromises in their career to support, unless all are willing to hire help or just be on the go 24/7. I wonder if OP has children and has also expecting his wife to look after them, but still earn substantial wages and save...
He does, I was that person and checked his post history and he has one child which apparently he feels is completely irrelevant to the story of his wife's saving potential.
Randomly, my partner and I speak to each other and compromise about career progression.
We agree that trying to push our careers and deal with new jobs and upskilling at the same time would be a bad thing so when one of us feels ready, we start talking about doing things like this and decide who gets to do it.
Christ. Maybe concentrate on your marriage rather than squirreling money away and looking down on her. I bet you're the one holding her back from enjoying her life.
That £275k in savings won't make the loneliness go away if you do get a divorce.
> the chilled one but caring family type
Respect her differences and take care of her because many people with the FIRE mindset make themselves stressed and miserable trying to achieve it. Her contribution to your life might not be financial but if you separated today, you'll see the difference looking back 3-5 years down the line.
You can also continue patiently trying to teach her about it, but focus on the basics and the emotional relationship with money first. (People can be anxious to get it / ambitious to get it / feel it's dirty / apathetic towards it... Think about how you relate to money and how she relates and discuss that.) Then do the same for debt, then planning for the future. Take your time, it's not like a checklist but an exploration of how your partner thinks and feels.
One final point - your wife isn't holding you back, she's part of your family who you're saving for. Your ambitious FIRE goal already includes her, as does the feeling of achievement once you're there. If you mean she doesn't share your enthusiasm... If you want someone to feel excited about something you feel excited about, and simply telling them hasn't worked, then they don't find your angle on it exciting. Try to find what she can relate to in your FIRE goals.
Ultimately it may be a fundamentally different way of thinking about money, and yours also comes with pros and cons, so it could turn into "can I accept that my partner is different to me or is this an important incompatibility" if she doesn't get more excited about this hobby of yours.
“Her value”????
How gross. You should be saving together. Is she footing most of the bills to allow you to save so much? Is she working less hours for childcare etc?
She’s probably not holding you back.
Although FIRE is great, I wouldn't focus my life solely on it. There are nuances to each story and I would say that having someone that you can depend on 24/7 and share your life with by your side is more important than retiring early.
It will take you a bit more time than if you'd do it by yourself but I have a feeling that in the long term you'd regret more pushing your wife away than not optimally saving for FIRE.
Life isn't about getting everything done correctly but enjoying the experiences, both bad and good.
As the half that didn’t have the savings, initially. There is more to this than you think.
You both have a very myopic view and probably don’t fully understand each others spending.
You say she’s frugal but has no savings. What’s she spending on? Is it everything you aren’t spending money on?
You say you both earn similar levels, is she contributing more to her pension?
Is she feeling threatened by your upbringing and ashamed of her own? To only see you treating her as reckless with money.
Maybe she’s helping family out but feels you are too controlling and wouldn’t understand!
You need to sit down and go over the household budget. Listing every expenditure. Who pays the holidays, food, utilities, TV subscriptions, insurances, cars, clothes, etc.
When you come from a home that’s always in debt, it’s difficult to not be in a money spending mindset. Likewise a family of savers see spending money for fun as very irresponsible.
You both need a middle ground.
Grim view of your marriage that you feel like she's 'holding you back', when she has more savings than a lot of people. Give your head a wobble and stop focusing on money so much.
FIRE isn't always right, you could die before you reach it. Living in the now isn't always right, you could live till you're 100.
Savings £1k a month is substantially beyond the norm, likely she's also saving more than the norm.
I can’t believe what I just read… you do realise you are married? It really shouldn’t be a ‘mine’ and ‘yours’ scenario, you are married, your pot is shared.
You sound very uptight and a misery guts from your replies.
Just a thought:
If the pursuit of FIRE is making you:
- view your life partner as an investment that is giving you poor returns
- prevents you from recognising a marriage is a team sport;
- makes you unable to view things that don’t directly relate to income as valuable;
- neglect to mention there is a child involved
- fail to recognise the caring of a child as a value
Then the issue not that your wife is holding you back, but that your pursuit of a financial goal is warping your ability to view your family as the most important and valuable ‘investment’ you will ever have.
ETA your post history indicates you are paid well but only do 2-3 hours of work in a day? Which - congrats, but if you are positioning yourself as the go getter with a financially lazy wife when the reality is you’re fortunate enough to be paid a full time salary on effectively part time work which your wife also works and shoulders childcare, housework etc - oof.
Why did you neglect to mention you have a child in your post? It's important. Did your wife's income dip at all due to having a child?
Genuine question - are you fun to be around? Spontaneous, generous of spirit? You might be. But it isn't coming through here.
I mean you can read the post, OP clearly states they are on similar incomes.
Genuine question - If I posted the exact same post with the genders reversed what would your response be?
If you value your child more than your money, how did you having a child (that presumably your wife has taken maternity leave to accomodate, something you’ve also failed to mention) slip your mind in the laying out of your entire financial context?
I’m not assuming, you’re neglecting to mention your child and then being annoyed people are fairly interpreting that as you not considering them.
Your response also ignored the key point which is that you seem unable to value your wife and her contributions.
I mean your making up extra expenses, if OP says the pay "most of the bills" then unless their other half is hiding a bunch of expenses from them we can assume OP is paying most of the bills.
I’m not making up extra expenses and it’s honestly a bit confusing you managed to wander to that conclusion from me pointing out that non-financial contributions haven’t been factored into his complaint.
ETA: if none of your reply is at all relevant to my comment and only reinforced the weird attitude you both have that financial contribution is the only meaningful kind of contribution. If OP is worried about her finances because it may point to an addiction issue, then say that? I can only respond to what OP has said, not infer what he hasn’t.
But since you are deadset on winning an argument I’m not having, I hope that has helped you.
This is not a relationship sub, if they earn a similar amount and OP pays most of the bills then there is no real excuse for her not contributing to their savings in any meaningful way.
The real answer here is she is hiding expenses/debut/spending from OP and it needs to be looked into as its going to cause a big problem for them, hell she could be a gambling addict for all we know.
I think you need to have a proper conversation with your wife so that you can both understand each other’s perspective and goals long-term, and prepare yourself to compromise on your wife’s outlook. It sounds like there is some resentment on your part towards your wife on this that needs clearing up ASAP if you wish to continue a healthy and loving marriage. I think it is unfair for you to say that she is holding *you* back by not saving as much of *her* earnings, your wife is not there to serve as your financial tool, and I don’t think it’s fair for you to expect her to progress through life in the same way as you either, especially with such an intensive plan as FIRE.
Please do not take this as a criticism, I am not passing judgement to you whatsoever and I understand why you may be feeling this way, I only say this as I think there is room here for an attitude adjustment and an opportunity for growth in your relationship so that you may come closer together. With all that said, obviously it is also a balancing act, and you certainly should not be feeling like you’re carrying all of the weight for the both of you, so again; Have a conversation with your wife, listen to her, let her listen to you, and come to an understanding together so that you can move on from this. Your goal is a massive undertaking and it simply isn’t for everyone, probably isn’t for most people, and that is ok. You are both still doing great. £20K may seem measly to your £275K, but it’s important to recognise that it is still a lot larger of a savings pool than the majority of the country. She certainly doesn’t sound like someone who “doesn’t look after herself financially”.
It sounds like she isn’t actually committed to it, and is just trying to go along with it for you. This is 100% a relationship issue not a financial one. You need to actually communicate with each other.
To me, it sounds like you need to change some of your attitudes. You’re married, it shouldn’t be “me and her”, rather us. Also, saying “she doesn’t look after herself financially”. She has a job, I’m guessing no debt and savings. That’s better than many. If you’re saying things like that to her, I promise it won’t be helping to get on the same page.
This feels like more of a question for the FIRE subreddits or relationship advice, because they both have more specialised/focussed audiences.
Having aligned financial goals are important, and FIRE isn't the only sensible personal finance philosophy.
So did you both start from 0 at the same time because if you did and you’re both on a as you describe as a similar salary then you have been putting away £1k a month religiously since you were 13?
Given she’s had family debt problems perhaps she has always helped family and so on? Feels like this is a conversation you should be having with her rather than the internet really. Still feels odd having “his and hers” savings to that extent to me, especially as if it ever came to divorce you’d have to disclose and share anyway
At some point the wife took maternity leave to have their child. OP failed to mention that.
For a young mother she is doing well to have those savings.
My wife and I are 36 & 35, we have zero savings and WE have debt WE are working TOGETHER to pay off. You’re financially in a very privileged position for your age, it’s relationship help you need not financial help.
If this was an AITA post, OP is definitely the A
If anything you are holding her back, you even said yourself that you talk her out of spending money. I can guarantee that in 30 years time you will have a load of money and also massive regrets that rather than enjoying your 30s you decided to live like a hermit and squirrel everything away.
This is more a relationship question than a personal finance question so it’ll likely get removed - try posting it in the UK FIRE sub instead if it does - but basically divorce is your only option, but she’ll get half your pension etc so you’re in a bit of a pickle. No but seriously, maybe she doesn’t want FIRE? Maybe she likes working? If your goals are misaligned like that is she happy to keep working while you FIRE? Also if you have similar incomes and she isn’t a big spender, where is her money going that yours isn’t? Something seems off there. £1k a month is a lot to be unintentionally spending. Ultimately though, you can’t necessarily change her attitude to money, and while yours may be objectively better, as far as most people in this sub are concerned, definitely don’t portray it as better. She’s grown up in a very different financial environment to you, that isn’t something that it’s easy to change using logic and reason.
Man you elicited such a shitty emotion from me that I instantly-downvoted when I read “divorce is your only option”, you caught me good there. 😂 Take an upvote instead soldier.
Male perspective here - not a million miles from situation of OP and can relate.
You have pointed out you have similar salaries and you are contributing a disproportionate amount more to the day to day living expenses which on the surface is unfair but as others are pointing out, there's likely more than meets the eye here. So there could be a number of mitigating factors:
1) You are being exceptionally frugal with your money in order to save the amount you are doing.
2) You are underestimating her spending on items you haven't considered - from experience if children are involved these can rack up, childcare, activities, toys, clothing etc.
3) You mention her parents have debt problems - is she helping them out financially?
In any case, what you really need to do is have an honest conversation with her, explain your viewpoint and suggest you do a joint budget to see where the money actually goes every month and then go from there.
If you want to make the marriage work, you may simply have to make your peace with the fact that you have different attitudes towards money and that the FIRE goal is one that you have to really take the lead on if you want to make it work.
Ever stop to think that a woman contributes more to your life than money ? My partner earns less than me. But she supports me in a way that allows me to truly focus on my mission.
I think you need to have a word with yourself. Is this really about the money.
You can save £1000 a month without issue??? That's not common as far as I'm aware at 36 in 2024. Least I kind of hope not as me and my wife combined can't save anywhere near that amount.
Yeah £1k on my own, I always thought that was normal, the way other people I know say they save. I use to do £1.3k or so a month nw £1k or under. All depends on expenses, home insurance wiped out £450 from me last month so certain months it’s a bit smaller but close to £1k
Never really been in a position to pay my home insurance in a lump sum either tbh, probably could manage it but it'd make things tight that month. We're both 32, our take home pay is like £4600 combined (after car lease and insurance as that's through work).
- £1150 Mortgage
- £220 Council Tax
- £700 Bills, Insurances, Subscriptions, Pets, Fuel
That leaves £2530. Each of us has £200 each on ourselves, so £2130.
- £900 for All Food (People sometimes balk at this but it's not just weekly shops, it's every food expense, coffees, dinner out, any food at work, like 1 takeaway a week. I've tried repeatedly to spend less than this but keep coming to the conclusion that other people just aren't being honest about what they actually spend on food).
That leaves £1230.
- £400 on essentials for cleaning, hygeine, medications, essential clothing. We usually exceed this budget, it's the most contencious of the lot as our definitions of essential can differ.
Down to £830. Of that I try to save at least half, the other half is usually spent on doing things, going out to places. We have no pensions because the minimum contribution for our workplace ones is 10%. The whole thing seems like a gamble to. 10% of our wages now is technically affordable if we just stop doing things almost entirely, but then we spend our 30s miserable for the "promise" of some income when we're what? 75?
Usually workplace pensions are accessible 10 years before the state retirement age. You're throwing away free money in terms of your employer match and if it's taken at source you don't pay tax or NI on it so it's less impact on your take home than you might think.
If your saving a grand a month, I can’t say that your being held back in any way shape or form. That’s more than most people are doing.
Re the pension, talk to her about it and get her to sort her financial pot for retirement etc - you’re looking out for your wife at the end of the day here. As for her spending, providing the bills and everything else required is covered, are you that bothered what she spends her money on??
I mean you could suggest to her that a pension payment and savings should be seen as a bill, just for a rainy day.
You mention holding you back… from what? What are you trying to achieve? I assume you have a house, a child… you clearly have a wife, what else are you looking for?
I know people have clapped in about your seeming attitude towards your wife but I’d like you to expand on a few things if possible.
Hot take but perhaps she just doesn't want to live so frugally during the years when she's young and healthy and wants to enjoy life and the money she earns. FIRE is a choice that she doesn't necessarily have to take, it's not a mandatory way of life for anyone. Perhaps she's happy with a standard pension and enough savings for an emergency. Perhaps she isn't particularly interested in retiring early. Your way isn't wrong, but it's a choice you've made. Her way also isn't wrong and it's a choice she's made too. It doesn't sound like she's in debt or particularly irresponsible, she just isn't saving as heavily because she perhaps has other priorities on what to spend the money on, and that's fine. Either you accept that you've just got different approaches on this or the relationship isn't viable.
You can lead a horse to water…
Seriously, I wouldn’t worry about it too much - it’s not like she is in debt, she just has less savings. I would just continue to lead by example, show her how you are saving and investing and maybe it rubs off one day.
A lot of people just manage their money by basically looking at how much is in their bank account and spending until it runs out/next payday rolls around.
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Probably not going to change her spending or saving habits at this stage of life but c'mon, you knew that already.
Need to accept that your wife does have a tremendous amount of savings, "50% of your joint assets should you or her ever seek to divorce". So while you're busting your chops, being frugal and saving for your FIRE ambitions, she is living her best life and enjoying her 'disposable' income now, all the while knowing that she has a financial windfall or nest egg if your relationship doesn't work out.
Advice: Forget about changing her habits, forget about FIRE and focus on protecting 'your' hard earned savings and assets.
lol - everyone getting so upset… you need to help her be more disciplined. It’s not fair if she’s earning similar and mindlessly spending away. Hold her hand, get her into a budget, ensure she makes direct debits automatically to savings accounts.
Why isn't it fair? Not everyone has the same goals in mind. If he's going down the route of it being 'his' money (even though it's not) surely in his mind she's got the right to do the same and not save 'her money' if she doesn't want to.
Exactly, I’m
Not asking her to have similar savings to what I’ve done, I’ve scrimped and saved for say 18 years to be where I am. Sometimes she wants to blow money on stuff and I have to reason and say why we shouldn’t and then she understands. If in 20 years she has £100k and all my investments come up to £1million, then that feeds both of us. At the end of the day, can’t all me team this team that as both have to work on it together. Like I said I’m happy to take the brunt of the work financially. I do a lot of childcare and house stuff too, equally I’d say compared to her believe it or not .
I wouldn't marry someone like that in the first place as it sounds like you are not financially compatible. Unless she improves, you need to go separate ways. Otherwise you will be constantly frustrated with her, causing fights and arguments.
We don’t have fights about this at all lol, I think looking at fire, most couples have equally similar monies invested or saved. There’s a big disparity on our side, I’m trying to help her I don’t want her to match but at least to keep building
You guys are already doing really well. You haven't mentioned her pension. If she doesn't currently contribute to one, definitely get her to start doing that. Given that you have a combined pot of around £300k you could say aim to retire at 50ish. This allows for around 15 years of growth. Assuming a 7% return, you should have at least 2 more doubles in that time, so £1.2m between you at 50yo. That's an awesome pot and should cover you for a sensible retirement. Just make sure your pot is fully invested to get the higher returns.
Yeah, so one of my goals is to have 7 figure net worth by 40 (includes equitiy in the house). Now this is my goal, not my wife’s goal. She doesn’t create financial goals but has said she wants to invest direct debit for our 1year old son bit by bit. Hasn’t happened in reality but I’m doing the investing on his behalf anyway. She would invest but I need to constantly remind her, have you set up the direct debit and her response will be I will …. Then forgets
We have sat down and discussed bills etc, we have split it but due to cost of living bills have gone up and I’ve taken the brunt of the increase which is fine. I don’t mind as a ways as the man I’ve always had it ingrained to be the provider in a way but my wife always wanted to work which I’m happy with that too.
I guess like you say, two options divorce
Or carry on as we are lol…. I think I always knew she was like this before we got married but thought she would change, now looking back, you can’t change anyone and shouldn’t expect them to, the average joe doesn’t like change and it takes a super strong mindset to want to change, something most people don’t have ( I feel like I do have it though)
> it takes a super strong mindset to want to change, something most people don’t have ( I feel like I do have it though)
Do you though? Sounds from your description like you've always been like this and you expect your wife to bend to your will. What changes and compromises are you making? You don't have to answer that to me but maybe think about it, you're not coming over very flexible here.
You seem very selfish there is more to life than money. Unless you have other issues in your relationship this is silly. You don’t think your son would want an intact family if possible. It’s our savings when you’re married…
It sounds like you actually have a poor understanding of your finances as a couple. You need to sit down and go through what you are actually spending on. The lack of discussion about your child is a bit telling, there are so many additional costs associated with small children and it’s quite possible she is taking these on herself. I’d also think about how your single minded focus on finances may be impacting her. You have a young child, a lot of people just want to enjoy these years when they are little and spend on day trips, toys and enjoying life (not to mention the extortionate costs of childcare!). If your wife sees you as frugal, she may not be sharing these purchases with you as you would likely disapprove.
I think overall you need a better balance, finances aren’t everything and sometimes you do just need to enjoy life a bit even if that means you aren’t saving quite as much.
It’s fascinating how he hasn’t replied once when asked where her money is going, but keeps saying she is a big spender. I wonder how many day to day expenses for the three of them she is picking up that he doesn’t know about.
A lot of men suffered because of this. You are only a team if you have the same goals. If your wife earns almost the same as you and you pay most bills, that's a problem. Think logically not with emotions. On paper she should have more savings than you. Where is her rest of the money going?. I see a lot of people saying you are a team you must be one, this is bs, you can only be a team if both are on the same page. The other issue is did you talk about savings together and both agreed? Maybe she prefers to put a lot of money for her retirement whilst you are saving for both of you? Which means your goals are totally different. If she was a stay at home wife, then yes, l would say she is entitled to half the savings, but not when you are earning almost the same and you are paying most bills, unless we are missing something. I suggest you get to the bottom of this asap otherwise you will cry in the future. Remember the saying "her money is hers, and your money is for both of you".
Tbh yeah financially it should be as a team, and I am planning to retire with her in mind. All these people commenting saying I’m selfish, I’m saving for her and me and my child and investing £1000s whilst I wear £30 suit to work and don’t buy clothes and live frugally. I doubt anyone here actually does this but they feel the right to comment harsh things about me being selfish. I don’t take it personally as average joe type people will never understand what’s it’s like to want to provide for your family properly financially.
I think a lot of it is how you write about it actually, but that's hard to give you feedback on in a single comment. I think you come off as quite focussed on FIRE (potentially to the exclusion of other things, which is where people make their wrong assumptions), but it's more that THIS POST is exclusively focussed on FIRE and how to get your wife to make FIRE a priority as well and help you feel like you're playing the same game. Which is actually an emotional and relationship question - I've tried to give an answer but it's quite hard as getting her excited about it and even a little ambitious about it have to do with your personalities and how you think of money. Not at all stuff that's in the post.
Might be easier to see a couples therapist if this continues to bother you or you can't express what you'd like in a way your wife would understand. Not bc there's something wrong with your relationship, just 4-6 sessions to help you actually communicate how important this is to you and that it's part of taking care of her and your family in a way she really gets on an emotional level, and allow her to express what she sees as fulfilling those goals. Maybe she sees a lot of the spending she does atm through the same lens as you see FIRE.
Please, buy yourself a good suit that isn't £30. Invest in yourself. Loosen the purse strings sometimes.
Occasionally remember that you might be dead at 40 or divorced and living on approximately half of what you saved.
This time, today, is actually all you have. No guarantees you'll be around, or with your wife, to retire.
Just treat yourself and relax a bit. Imagine with all the sacrifices you end up divorcing (60% chance statistically) you still gonna lose that money as well. Take a break from saving too much and treat yourself, dress well, join the gym, eat out, go on holiday, it will clear your mind a bit also.
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Possible unpopular opinion here. But given you are married - I’d have expected you to be saying: ‘WE have saved £295k’ Which is a great place for 36 and 34 year old couple compared to most. But if you’re married then you are a team and need to view it as such. Theres obviously a balance between having some of your ‘own’ money but in the big picture, you both are on eachothers side. Communication has to be key here Have you done a retrospective budget together where you both write down everything you spent in the last month? Or even three? You might find there are expenses you haven’t even considered she is covering (all those friends birthday presents, holidays, household items and flea treatments for the dog all add up… just examples!) which might help you understand what’s going on. Or Maybe she knows you are saving 1k a month for your combined future so thinks you are comfortable with her covering more of the discretionary lifestyle spend? It sounds maybe like there is some possible resentment building if you don’t open it all up to each other and talk about it so both can see the full picture, it isn’t going to go well. But really think about your approach, if you start from ‘you are holding me back’ you might start down a road you wish you weren’t meaning to go on. If you start from a ‘let’s communicate and really understand so WE can build the best plan for US’… maybe some changes will happen which will be what you want and she will Save more, or maybe you will understand more about it where it all goes and feel less negative about it.
This is both morally and legally correct. If you are married it is shared resources. Does she do most of the food shopping? Meals Out? Holidays? Have you spoken about how you want to live your lives? What is the opportunity cost of being overly frugal? Expecting my support to be downvoted.
Not necessarily legally correct. Would depend on an court ruling if anyone were to test it.
Having looked at OPs post history, there's also a child which, slightly bafflingly, hasn't been mentioned so assuming this is also her child a) his wife probably had a period where at best she was earning substantially less and b) she likely picks up most of the day to day on that. I find it very bizarre that OP has chosen to overlook this piece of information.
I was reading this wondering if they had a child as historically, women typically foot the majority of the bill for child costs, these two definitely need to write down their spends and budget.
I'd love to know what this >our salaries are not much different hugely Actually means as well.
Exactly right, honestly OPs post just feels kinda gross. If you aren't a partnership with your wife then why be with her? Also, it is pretty typical if one of the household is a high earner, then the other likely has to make compromises in their career to support, unless all are willing to hire help or just be on the go 24/7. I wonder if OP has children and has also expecting his wife to look after them, but still earn substantial wages and save...
He does, I was that person and checked his post history and he has one child which apparently he feels is completely irrelevant to the story of his wife's saving potential.
Randomly, my partner and I speak to each other and compromise about career progression. We agree that trying to push our careers and deal with new jobs and upskilling at the same time would be a bad thing so when one of us feels ready, we start talking about doing things like this and decide who gets to do it.
Agree
I really like this post.
What a gem of a husband that you are, sounds like you need a relationship advice more than financial
Christ. Maybe concentrate on your marriage rather than squirreling money away and looking down on her. I bet you're the one holding her back from enjoying her life. That £275k in savings won't make the loneliness go away if you do get a divorce.
> the chilled one but caring family type Respect her differences and take care of her because many people with the FIRE mindset make themselves stressed and miserable trying to achieve it. Her contribution to your life might not be financial but if you separated today, you'll see the difference looking back 3-5 years down the line. You can also continue patiently trying to teach her about it, but focus on the basics and the emotional relationship with money first. (People can be anxious to get it / ambitious to get it / feel it's dirty / apathetic towards it... Think about how you relate to money and how she relates and discuss that.) Then do the same for debt, then planning for the future. Take your time, it's not like a checklist but an exploration of how your partner thinks and feels. One final point - your wife isn't holding you back, she's part of your family who you're saving for. Your ambitious FIRE goal already includes her, as does the feeling of achievement once you're there. If you mean she doesn't share your enthusiasm... If you want someone to feel excited about something you feel excited about, and simply telling them hasn't worked, then they don't find your angle on it exciting. Try to find what she can relate to in your FIRE goals. Ultimately it may be a fundamentally different way of thinking about money, and yours also comes with pros and cons, so it could turn into "can I accept that my partner is different to me or is this an important incompatibility" if she doesn't get more excited about this hobby of yours.
“Her value”???? How gross. You should be saving together. Is she footing most of the bills to allow you to save so much? Is she working less hours for childcare etc? She’s probably not holding you back.
Although FIRE is great, I wouldn't focus my life solely on it. There are nuances to each story and I would say that having someone that you can depend on 24/7 and share your life with by your side is more important than retiring early. It will take you a bit more time than if you'd do it by yourself but I have a feeling that in the long term you'd regret more pushing your wife away than not optimally saving for FIRE. Life isn't about getting everything done correctly but enjoying the experiences, both bad and good.
As the half that didn’t have the savings, initially. There is more to this than you think. You both have a very myopic view and probably don’t fully understand each others spending. You say she’s frugal but has no savings. What’s she spending on? Is it everything you aren’t spending money on? You say you both earn similar levels, is she contributing more to her pension? Is she feeling threatened by your upbringing and ashamed of her own? To only see you treating her as reckless with money. Maybe she’s helping family out but feels you are too controlling and wouldn’t understand! You need to sit down and go over the household budget. Listing every expenditure. Who pays the holidays, food, utilities, TV subscriptions, insurances, cars, clothes, etc. When you come from a home that’s always in debt, it’s difficult to not be in a money spending mindset. Likewise a family of savers see spending money for fun as very irresponsible. You both need a middle ground.
Grim view of your marriage that you feel like she's 'holding you back', when she has more savings than a lot of people. Give your head a wobble and stop focusing on money so much.
FIRE isn't always right, you could die before you reach it. Living in the now isn't always right, you could live till you're 100. Savings £1k a month is substantially beyond the norm, likely she's also saving more than the norm.
I want to introduce the wife to a divorce lawyer
🤣
British or American ? You guys love a divorce
In this case I don't think it matters, woman is best shot of this guy
Your replying to OP here btw, he is "this guy".
I can’t believe what I just read… you do realise you are married? It really shouldn’t be a ‘mine’ and ‘yours’ scenario, you are married, your pot is shared. You sound very uptight and a misery guts from your replies.
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You actually typed out words to the effect of "my wife is only worth 20k". Think you might need a long look at your attitude to this.
Goodness me, what a weird way to talk about your wife.
Just a thought: If the pursuit of FIRE is making you: - view your life partner as an investment that is giving you poor returns - prevents you from recognising a marriage is a team sport; - makes you unable to view things that don’t directly relate to income as valuable; - neglect to mention there is a child involved - fail to recognise the caring of a child as a value Then the issue not that your wife is holding you back, but that your pursuit of a financial goal is warping your ability to view your family as the most important and valuable ‘investment’ you will ever have. ETA your post history indicates you are paid well but only do 2-3 hours of work in a day? Which - congrats, but if you are positioning yourself as the go getter with a financially lazy wife when the reality is you’re fortunate enough to be paid a full time salary on effectively part time work which your wife also works and shoulders childcare, housework etc - oof.
I value looking after a child more important than money, get that right instead of assuming
Why did you neglect to mention you have a child in your post? It's important. Did your wife's income dip at all due to having a child? Genuine question - are you fun to be around? Spontaneous, generous of spirit? You might be. But it isn't coming through here.
I mean you can read the post, OP clearly states they are on similar incomes. Genuine question - If I posted the exact same post with the genders reversed what would your response be?
If you value your child more than your money, how did you having a child (that presumably your wife has taken maternity leave to accomodate, something you’ve also failed to mention) slip your mind in the laying out of your entire financial context? I’m not assuming, you’re neglecting to mention your child and then being annoyed people are fairly interpreting that as you not considering them. Your response also ignored the key point which is that you seem unable to value your wife and her contributions.
I mean your making up extra expenses, if OP says the pay "most of the bills" then unless their other half is hiding a bunch of expenses from them we can assume OP is paying most of the bills.
I’m not making up extra expenses and it’s honestly a bit confusing you managed to wander to that conclusion from me pointing out that non-financial contributions haven’t been factored into his complaint. ETA: if none of your reply is at all relevant to my comment and only reinforced the weird attitude you both have that financial contribution is the only meaningful kind of contribution. If OP is worried about her finances because it may point to an addiction issue, then say that? I can only respond to what OP has said, not infer what he hasn’t. But since you are deadset on winning an argument I’m not having, I hope that has helped you.
This is not a relationship sub, if they earn a similar amount and OP pays most of the bills then there is no real excuse for her not contributing to their savings in any meaningful way. The real answer here is she is hiding expenses/debut/spending from OP and it needs to be looked into as its going to cause a big problem for them, hell she could be a gambling addict for all we know.
I think you need to have a proper conversation with your wife so that you can both understand each other’s perspective and goals long-term, and prepare yourself to compromise on your wife’s outlook. It sounds like there is some resentment on your part towards your wife on this that needs clearing up ASAP if you wish to continue a healthy and loving marriage. I think it is unfair for you to say that she is holding *you* back by not saving as much of *her* earnings, your wife is not there to serve as your financial tool, and I don’t think it’s fair for you to expect her to progress through life in the same way as you either, especially with such an intensive plan as FIRE. Please do not take this as a criticism, I am not passing judgement to you whatsoever and I understand why you may be feeling this way, I only say this as I think there is room here for an attitude adjustment and an opportunity for growth in your relationship so that you may come closer together. With all that said, obviously it is also a balancing act, and you certainly should not be feeling like you’re carrying all of the weight for the both of you, so again; Have a conversation with your wife, listen to her, let her listen to you, and come to an understanding together so that you can move on from this. Your goal is a massive undertaking and it simply isn’t for everyone, probably isn’t for most people, and that is ok. You are both still doing great. £20K may seem measly to your £275K, but it’s important to recognise that it is still a lot larger of a savings pool than the majority of the country. She certainly doesn’t sound like someone who “doesn’t look after herself financially”.
It sounds like she isn’t actually committed to it, and is just trying to go along with it for you. This is 100% a relationship issue not a financial one. You need to actually communicate with each other. To me, it sounds like you need to change some of your attitudes. You’re married, it shouldn’t be “me and her”, rather us. Also, saying “she doesn’t look after herself financially”. She has a job, I’m guessing no debt and savings. That’s better than many. If you’re saying things like that to her, I promise it won’t be helping to get on the same page.
This feels like more of a question for the FIRE subreddits or relationship advice, because they both have more specialised/focussed audiences. Having aligned financial goals are important, and FIRE isn't the only sensible personal finance philosophy.
So did you both start from 0 at the same time because if you did and you’re both on a as you describe as a similar salary then you have been putting away £1k a month religiously since you were 13? Given she’s had family debt problems perhaps she has always helped family and so on? Feels like this is a conversation you should be having with her rather than the internet really. Still feels odd having “his and hers” savings to that extent to me, especially as if it ever came to divorce you’d have to disclose and share anyway
At some point the wife took maternity leave to have their child. OP failed to mention that. For a young mother she is doing well to have those savings.
My wife and I are 36 & 35, we have zero savings and WE have debt WE are working TOGETHER to pay off. You’re financially in a very privileged position for your age, it’s relationship help you need not financial help. If this was an AITA post, OP is definitely the A
This is the most FIRE post I think I’ve ever read
Whatever you do please share your post with her and report back.
If anything you are holding her back, you even said yourself that you talk her out of spending money. I can guarantee that in 30 years time you will have a load of money and also massive regrets that rather than enjoying your 30s you decided to live like a hermit and squirrel everything away.
This guy sounds like the epitome of "money can't buy you happiness". His poor wife and child.
This is more a relationship question than a personal finance question so it’ll likely get removed - try posting it in the UK FIRE sub instead if it does - but basically divorce is your only option, but she’ll get half your pension etc so you’re in a bit of a pickle. No but seriously, maybe she doesn’t want FIRE? Maybe she likes working? If your goals are misaligned like that is she happy to keep working while you FIRE? Also if you have similar incomes and she isn’t a big spender, where is her money going that yours isn’t? Something seems off there. £1k a month is a lot to be unintentionally spending. Ultimately though, you can’t necessarily change her attitude to money, and while yours may be objectively better, as far as most people in this sub are concerned, definitely don’t portray it as better. She’s grown up in a very different financial environment to you, that isn’t something that it’s easy to change using logic and reason.
Man you elicited such a shitty emotion from me that I instantly-downvoted when I read “divorce is your only option”, you caught me good there. 😂 Take an upvote instead soldier.
I reckon this is OPs burner account 😂
😂😂😂 caught me… /s Nah just struck me as terrible advice until I realised it was a pisstake
Male perspective here - not a million miles from situation of OP and can relate. You have pointed out you have similar salaries and you are contributing a disproportionate amount more to the day to day living expenses which on the surface is unfair but as others are pointing out, there's likely more than meets the eye here. So there could be a number of mitigating factors: 1) You are being exceptionally frugal with your money in order to save the amount you are doing. 2) You are underestimating her spending on items you haven't considered - from experience if children are involved these can rack up, childcare, activities, toys, clothing etc. 3) You mention her parents have debt problems - is she helping them out financially? In any case, what you really need to do is have an honest conversation with her, explain your viewpoint and suggest you do a joint budget to see where the money actually goes every month and then go from there. If you want to make the marriage work, you may simply have to make your peace with the fact that you have different attitudes towards money and that the FIRE goal is one that you have to really take the lead on if you want to make it work.
Ever stop to think that a woman contributes more to your life than money ? My partner earns less than me. But she supports me in a way that allows me to truly focus on my mission. I think you need to have a word with yourself. Is this really about the money.
You can save £1000 a month without issue??? That's not common as far as I'm aware at 36 in 2024. Least I kind of hope not as me and my wife combined can't save anywhere near that amount.
Yeah £1k on my own, I always thought that was normal, the way other people I know say they save. I use to do £1.3k or so a month nw £1k or under. All depends on expenses, home insurance wiped out £450 from me last month so certain months it’s a bit smaller but close to £1k
Never really been in a position to pay my home insurance in a lump sum either tbh, probably could manage it but it'd make things tight that month. We're both 32, our take home pay is like £4600 combined (after car lease and insurance as that's through work). - £1150 Mortgage - £220 Council Tax - £700 Bills, Insurances, Subscriptions, Pets, Fuel That leaves £2530. Each of us has £200 each on ourselves, so £2130. - £900 for All Food (People sometimes balk at this but it's not just weekly shops, it's every food expense, coffees, dinner out, any food at work, like 1 takeaway a week. I've tried repeatedly to spend less than this but keep coming to the conclusion that other people just aren't being honest about what they actually spend on food). That leaves £1230. - £400 on essentials for cleaning, hygeine, medications, essential clothing. We usually exceed this budget, it's the most contencious of the lot as our definitions of essential can differ. Down to £830. Of that I try to save at least half, the other half is usually spent on doing things, going out to places. We have no pensions because the minimum contribution for our workplace ones is 10%. The whole thing seems like a gamble to. 10% of our wages now is technically affordable if we just stop doing things almost entirely, but then we spend our 30s miserable for the "promise" of some income when we're what? 75?
Usually workplace pensions are accessible 10 years before the state retirement age. You're throwing away free money in terms of your employer match and if it's taken at source you don't pay tax or NI on it so it's less impact on your take home than you might think.
I think she needs a new husband. You're married! Your marriage has 295k. If you got divorced you would have half of this.
If your saving a grand a month, I can’t say that your being held back in any way shape or form. That’s more than most people are doing. Re the pension, talk to her about it and get her to sort her financial pot for retirement etc - you’re looking out for your wife at the end of the day here. As for her spending, providing the bills and everything else required is covered, are you that bothered what she spends her money on?? I mean you could suggest to her that a pension payment and savings should be seen as a bill, just for a rainy day. You mention holding you back… from what? What are you trying to achieve? I assume you have a house, a child… you clearly have a wife, what else are you looking for? I know people have clapped in about your seeming attitude towards your wife but I’d like you to expand on a few things if possible.
Sound like a right barrel of laughs you pal…proper team effort you have going on 🙄
Absolutely embarrassing. Genuinely gutted for your wife.
Hot take but perhaps she just doesn't want to live so frugally during the years when she's young and healthy and wants to enjoy life and the money she earns. FIRE is a choice that she doesn't necessarily have to take, it's not a mandatory way of life for anyone. Perhaps she's happy with a standard pension and enough savings for an emergency. Perhaps she isn't particularly interested in retiring early. Your way isn't wrong, but it's a choice you've made. Her way also isn't wrong and it's a choice she's made too. It doesn't sound like she's in debt or particularly irresponsible, she just isn't saving as heavily because she perhaps has other priorities on what to spend the money on, and that's fine. Either you accept that you've just got different approaches on this or the relationship isn't viable.
You can lead a horse to water… Seriously, I wouldn’t worry about it too much - it’s not like she is in debt, she just has less savings. I would just continue to lead by example, show her how you are saving and investing and maybe it rubs off one day.
If you earn nearly the same, share the bills. Then invest her contribution to the savings pot.
Something is not right if you have £275k savings and pension and she doesn't even have £20k in a pension even if she has no savings.
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It’s acceptable to be able to spend your money as you see fit to pretty much every reasonable and well adjusted human being.
A lot of people just manage their money by basically looking at how much is in their bank account and spending until it runs out/next payday rolls around.
Hi /u/Professional-Lab5958, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant: * https://ukpersonal.finance/pensions/ ____ ^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.)
Probably not going to change her spending or saving habits at this stage of life but c'mon, you knew that already. Need to accept that your wife does have a tremendous amount of savings, "50% of your joint assets should you or her ever seek to divorce". So while you're busting your chops, being frugal and saving for your FIRE ambitions, she is living her best life and enjoying her 'disposable' income now, all the while knowing that she has a financial windfall or nest egg if your relationship doesn't work out. Advice: Forget about changing her habits, forget about FIRE and focus on protecting 'your' hard earned savings and assets.
lol - everyone getting so upset… you need to help her be more disciplined. It’s not fair if she’s earning similar and mindlessly spending away. Hold her hand, get her into a budget, ensure she makes direct debits automatically to savings accounts.
Why isn't it fair? Not everyone has the same goals in mind. If he's going down the route of it being 'his' money (even though it's not) surely in his mind she's got the right to do the same and not save 'her money' if she doesn't want to.
Exactly, I’m Not asking her to have similar savings to what I’ve done, I’ve scrimped and saved for say 18 years to be where I am. Sometimes she wants to blow money on stuff and I have to reason and say why we shouldn’t and then she understands. If in 20 years she has £100k and all my investments come up to £1million, then that feeds both of us. At the end of the day, can’t all me team this team that as both have to work on it together. Like I said I’m happy to take the brunt of the work financially. I do a lot of childcare and house stuff too, equally I’d say compared to her believe it or not .
I wouldn't marry someone like that in the first place as it sounds like you are not financially compatible. Unless she improves, you need to go separate ways. Otherwise you will be constantly frustrated with her, causing fights and arguments.
They could go separate ways, but they have a child. Not mentioned in the post.
We don’t have fights about this at all lol, I think looking at fire, most couples have equally similar monies invested or saved. There’s a big disparity on our side, I’m trying to help her I don’t want her to match but at least to keep building
You guys are already doing really well. You haven't mentioned her pension. If she doesn't currently contribute to one, definitely get her to start doing that. Given that you have a combined pot of around £300k you could say aim to retire at 50ish. This allows for around 15 years of growth. Assuming a 7% return, you should have at least 2 more doubles in that time, so £1.2m between you at 50yo. That's an awesome pot and should cover you for a sensible retirement. Just make sure your pot is fully invested to get the higher returns.
Thank you, yeah I have a fair bit in cash isa which now after learning a lot, I’m investing it all , I don’t want to have cash in the bank
Yeah, so one of my goals is to have 7 figure net worth by 40 (includes equitiy in the house). Now this is my goal, not my wife’s goal. She doesn’t create financial goals but has said she wants to invest direct debit for our 1year old son bit by bit. Hasn’t happened in reality but I’m doing the investing on his behalf anyway. She would invest but I need to constantly remind her, have you set up the direct debit and her response will be I will …. Then forgets We have sat down and discussed bills etc, we have split it but due to cost of living bills have gone up and I’ve taken the brunt of the increase which is fine. I don’t mind as a ways as the man I’ve always had it ingrained to be the provider in a way but my wife always wanted to work which I’m happy with that too. I guess like you say, two options divorce Or carry on as we are lol…. I think I always knew she was like this before we got married but thought she would change, now looking back, you can’t change anyone and shouldn’t expect them to, the average joe doesn’t like change and it takes a super strong mindset to want to change, something most people don’t have ( I feel like I do have it though)
> it takes a super strong mindset to want to change, something most people don’t have ( I feel like I do have it though) Do you though? Sounds from your description like you've always been like this and you expect your wife to bend to your will. What changes and compromises are you making? You don't have to answer that to me but maybe think about it, you're not coming over very flexible here.
You seem very selfish there is more to life than money. Unless you have other issues in your relationship this is silly. You don’t think your son would want an intact family if possible. It’s our savings when you’re married…
It sounds like you actually have a poor understanding of your finances as a couple. You need to sit down and go through what you are actually spending on. The lack of discussion about your child is a bit telling, there are so many additional costs associated with small children and it’s quite possible she is taking these on herself. I’d also think about how your single minded focus on finances may be impacting her. You have a young child, a lot of people just want to enjoy these years when they are little and spend on day trips, toys and enjoying life (not to mention the extortionate costs of childcare!). If your wife sees you as frugal, she may not be sharing these purchases with you as you would likely disapprove. I think overall you need a better balance, finances aren’t everything and sometimes you do just need to enjoy life a bit even if that means you aren’t saving quite as much.
It’s fascinating how he hasn’t replied once when asked where her money is going, but keeps saying she is a big spender. I wonder how many day to day expenses for the three of them she is picking up that he doesn’t know about.
I’m frugal when it comes to things but I spend money on food, basic essentials, I don’t buy clothes but we plan trips abroad and spend on that .
A lot of men suffered because of this. You are only a team if you have the same goals. If your wife earns almost the same as you and you pay most bills, that's a problem. Think logically not with emotions. On paper she should have more savings than you. Where is her rest of the money going?. I see a lot of people saying you are a team you must be one, this is bs, you can only be a team if both are on the same page. The other issue is did you talk about savings together and both agreed? Maybe she prefers to put a lot of money for her retirement whilst you are saving for both of you? Which means your goals are totally different. If she was a stay at home wife, then yes, l would say she is entitled to half the savings, but not when you are earning almost the same and you are paying most bills, unless we are missing something. I suggest you get to the bottom of this asap otherwise you will cry in the future. Remember the saying "her money is hers, and your money is for both of you".
Even if people down vote me, someone has to say it.
Tbh yeah financially it should be as a team, and I am planning to retire with her in mind. All these people commenting saying I’m selfish, I’m saving for her and me and my child and investing £1000s whilst I wear £30 suit to work and don’t buy clothes and live frugally. I doubt anyone here actually does this but they feel the right to comment harsh things about me being selfish. I don’t take it personally as average joe type people will never understand what’s it’s like to want to provide for your family properly financially.
I think a lot of it is how you write about it actually, but that's hard to give you feedback on in a single comment. I think you come off as quite focussed on FIRE (potentially to the exclusion of other things, which is where people make their wrong assumptions), but it's more that THIS POST is exclusively focussed on FIRE and how to get your wife to make FIRE a priority as well and help you feel like you're playing the same game. Which is actually an emotional and relationship question - I've tried to give an answer but it's quite hard as getting her excited about it and even a little ambitious about it have to do with your personalities and how you think of money. Not at all stuff that's in the post. Might be easier to see a couples therapist if this continues to bother you or you can't express what you'd like in a way your wife would understand. Not bc there's something wrong with your relationship, just 4-6 sessions to help you actually communicate how important this is to you and that it's part of taking care of her and your family in a way she really gets on an emotional level, and allow her to express what she sees as fulfilling those goals. Maybe she sees a lot of the spending she does atm through the same lens as you see FIRE.
Please, buy yourself a good suit that isn't £30. Invest in yourself. Loosen the purse strings sometimes. Occasionally remember that you might be dead at 40 or divorced and living on approximately half of what you saved. This time, today, is actually all you have. No guarantees you'll be around, or with your wife, to retire.
Just treat yourself and relax a bit. Imagine with all the sacrifices you end up divorcing (60% chance statistically) you still gonna lose that money as well. Take a break from saving too much and treat yourself, dress well, join the gym, eat out, go on holiday, it will clear your mind a bit also.
Thank you for the kind reply