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"All tacolets including geraniums are at risk" is a translation error btw. "All our slow-flying drones, including Geran (Russian produced Shaheds) are at risk." is the correct translation.
I think Skavin vs Dwarves is a better comparison. The Skavin are an endless horde that is constantly backstabbing and stealing. The only reason they’re fighting is they’re whipped and hope to someday hold the whip. They blame all failures on others and accept no responsibility for their actions.
Yes. I’ve aready seen videos of high-flying FPV drones taking out Orlan-10’s. They can fly literal
circles around them up there because winged drones are no match. Its insanely genius.
I would expect fpv drones controlled by computer vision alone to be hunting these down very soon if not already.
"because winged drones are no match"
The drones that brought down the Orlans wrere winged. They are not the usual Quadcopter-FPVs but purpose-built drone interceptor planes.
I was going to say: I wonder if he's talking about fixed-wing jet-propelled drones. He mentions "They can fly at speeds of up to 500 kmph". I suppose I could be wrong but I don't think there is any way he is talking about quadcopters here. Racing drones (quadcopters) top out at 160, 180?
I don't think propellera can do supersonic well, and tend to be *really* loud and inefficient iirc. A jet wngine would be better in terms of range, accelleration, and stability.
With a prop, the sonic boom off each propeller is constantly slamming into the wings and airframe, with a jet it's all behind you.
Why very difficult? Dont forget they are getting intel from the west/5eyes. Theyve real time vhr satellites staring all day. They can watch em take off and can detect them in flight. Theyve been using cellular/mesh network of microphones aswell tracking drones and artillery cracks for a while now. Once you know where they taking off its trivial to watch em, not to mention all the radars and various other platforms that could be used to track things in the sky, especially the larger ISR drones.
You're missing the mark with all of that. Those techniques may help detect the presence of drones but don't solve the problem of actually hitting it with another drone.
It's difficult because they are very small objects and at any substantial distance will have high angular momentum.
That makes them difficult to track visually with a drone's camera. If you zoom out it's too small to see and if you zoom in it moves too fast to track easily.
Finding something so small in in the air is pretty hard I'm guessing. They must have good radars is my guess, I'm no expert at this correct me if I'm wrong. If a radar can find it then it maybe be theortically possible to direct the drone to the air target. I also asked chatgpt and it said yes. 😄
Yes that is *theoretically* possible, but in practice it's rather complicated to do something like that and the vast majority of drones are far more simplistic than that. Most of them are flying purely on visual guidance and/or GPS controlled from short range transceivers.
What you're describing is essentially how a system like Patriot operates. The radar on the ground tracks incoming targets and steers the missile towards them, then the missile uses its onboard sensors to help zero in at the end. Problem being how expensive and complex that kind of system is.
Not only that, most drones don't have much metal in them which makes them hard to find on radar. Surveilance drones especially.
I wonder how ukraine is going about this, i can think of a few ways, but i'll keep that to myself for now because i suspect one method over the rest which i've seen mentioned in only one article and it's gloriously ingenious.
Actually, scratch that, i suspect 2 methods now thay i think on it. One would be good for wide area coverage, the other is more for pinpointing but could be done en mass at a greater cost.
at very short ranges for final targeting modern automotive radar chips and processors may be cheap and light enough.
Infrared detectors may be inexpensive enough now.
With civilian aviation cleared out, it's the perfect control environment for tonnes of experimental stuff. They can press concepts into live-service and combat with the speed and freedom companies dream of.
I read somewhere that one of the things that Ukraine is doing is getting cell phones with SIM card and mics. Putting them on 6 foot tall sticks and leaving them on. Helps them triangulate where a some drones are at or the direction they are going. I am sure they are also using some other secret techniques as well.
Edit: https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-news/how-ukraine-is-using-mobile-phones-on-6ft-poles-to-stop-drones/#:~:text=Ukraine%20is%20using%20a%20network,Europe%20at%20a%20recent%20event.
There's a video from Kherson a couple months ago, they intercepted the russian drone video feed, and an FPV pilot used that to figure out where it was and took it out
My cousin did something similar in Afghanistan.
They used basically weather balloon network to triangulate gun shots and noise. I wouldn't even be surprised if they are using the same balloons, they are super effective, that's basically all he did.
Attached a bunch of cheap phones to balloons and now you have an acoustic detection network that is pretty cheap and effective, genius
I heard about it, [but I thought it failed.](https://www.wired.com/2011/04/cameras-spy-balloons-surge-in-afghanistan/) Cannot find any recent articles on it because of the chinese balloon over the USA.
I would imagine having a camera attached to a weather balloon looking down would help it detect fix winged drones.
BTW first time a balloon was used in war was the Napoleonic Wars.
They can only do it when Ukraine push, range on those missiles is crap and they need to be guided, so helis can only fire them from safe distance behind the frontline.
In defense Ukraine doesn't have columns of armour near the front line like when they were on offense. It's probably not worth having a helicopter shot down without a target rich environment. It's also more important to take out armour when they are assaulting your positions due to the immediate consequences of not stopping it.
Especially given that the KA-50/52's guidance camera is below the cockpit, so it needs to be high enough to see the target over that distance.
Just unfortunate that Ukraine didn't have enough quantities of AA missiles capable of reaching out that far during their push last year.
I think Ukrainians are one step ahead of everyone in this field at the moment.
No one was expecting a ww1 kind of war with trenches and artillery AND 200$ drones .
I love how World War I is re-evolving. Back then, planes were first observers flying over the battlefield and then they started hand-dropping grenades over the side and then they got guns and then at some point along the way they got bombs. Small drones were sort of the same at first -- observers and then initially being rigged with grenades to drop. (Of course, there's no equivalent to a suicide drone in World War I.)
In past years people were talking about unmanned fighter planes, imagining high tech fancy fighter planes with automation replacing a pilot in the cockpit. In other words, sort of top down. But maybe it'll be more like World War I -- from the bottom up, with fancier drones with more and more capabilities being added on as they develop. We're now reaching the point of air to air battles and drone dog fights.
I've been thinking we're probably headed toward small, extremely agile jet drones that'll be used to target recon drones like an interceptor. Maybe close air support drones armed with rockets and a 7.62 machine gun. I'm imagining a footprint of less than 3x3 meters. The ability to be quickly deployed from random roads. Probably using another drone located well behind the front as a data relay.
Nah, just make the interceptor tough. Ramming most recon drones (which are gemerally made out of weaker materials that won't reflect radar to avoid detection) with a heavier and faster drone would do the job. Build the interceptor right and you can even keep going on more intercepts until your gas runs out.
That is correct. And I assume that, let’s say the NATO (to cover all) learn a lot from them and if (if!) they aren’t ignorant and stupid their industry will boosted to another level. The good thing about this development is that Russian companies will suffer because of their technology sanctions to follow. In 1-2 years we will see a lot of movement on the drone market.
All the way back in 2016 the U.S. was already able to successfully deploy killer AI drone swarms with just two F-18s. Now people can use drones to even replace fireworks displays. Ukraine wasn't even the first to use consumer drones like DJI in combat. Ukraine will get there eventually.
U.S. Military F-18 Launch Test at China Lake
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI)
Drone light Show 2024 (there are tons of these)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu80sI3OQAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu80sI3OQAM)
I've been talking about this since drone use first emerged in Ukraine. Forget huge ISR platforms and FPVs and dropping munitions from Baba Yaga drones (as effective and devastating as they all are and can be) but swarm is going to be the name of the game in the future and it is far more terrifying to me. That sound at the end of the China Lake test is the last thing infantry will here when dozens of little hummingbird-sized drones come after each of them individually, and there will be hundreds or even thousands more for your trench-mates, comms, ammo, and vehicles.
We haven't even seen this tech used in a combat role yet and they've been improving it for a decade since then. It will emerge like a revelation after first public use just like stealth technology in the 90s.
Actually think of a drone swarm that appears in front of a attack jet and you end up with the equivalent of explosive bird strikes. With enough resources you could build a impenetrable wall of death that nothing large could fly through without being damaged or destroyed. A drone swarm could even work as an intercept for missiles if you can build the many hundreds of thousands needed and you have the radars so they are in the right places at the right times.
A "big generator"? https://optics.org/news/5/8/19
What do you mean? It fits even on a small HMMV. Or striker. https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2024/03/07/u-s-army-deploys-stryker-armored-vehicle-mounted-laser-m-shorad-in-the-middle-east/
Found this as well on another channel yesterday, waiting to see if the Russians will be able to come up with a solution or not:
"Attention
The enemy is increasingly holding a "duty FPV" in the sky to fight our "wings" (UAVs), detected (kamikaze) at altitudes from 1200 meters to 2500 meters.
How to avoid knocking down your wing?
1) Do not use the standard flight route every time.
What does this mean?
We took off from n.n., then we fly through the village G, further through the farm K, further to n.n. W.
And it repeats itself every time.
It is necessary to rebuild the flight route every time so that the enemy's radio intelligence could not locate you on the same route and keep an "on-duty FPV" there
2) establish interaction with your pilots, who will help you in matters of the presence of "these birds" on the flight route, and if they "capture" a picture of an enemy bird, they could tell you where it is flying and heading.
3) try to constantly perform maneuvers during the flight: set (decrease), do not fly a straight route, take such flights as the "eight", etc. (remember the tactics)
The relevance of the issue will only grow"
This war is redefining 21st century combat with the huge impact FPV drones are having both on the ground and the in air, and Russia is learning at least some of these lessons, generally the hard way, but still learning.
I *REALLY* hope the NATO is taking copious notes and has visionary thinkers studying the implications and pushing appropriate policy and purchasing to get a couple of steps ahead with countermeasures for defence and anti-jamming + enhanced autonomy for attack.
They cannot rely on old assumptions, or its gonna be the Maginot Line all over again...
So I think he means thar ukraine has made fast moving fpv drones and has a good system to detect russian surveillance drones then hit them with fpvs. Some videos have come out of this. If ukraine can develop this capability it would be awesome
I cannot say this enough but Ukraine opened the door to the next generation of soldiers and warfare. Next war will be fought by netrunners and dronefighters
who would have thought, that rc model-flying and quadrocopter-racing would develop into a serious warfighting skill... even air to air combat... I mean, they´re using old yak-planes to hunt drones over Odessa. Next thing is a ki-piloted mini-Mustang buzzing the battlefield???
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"All tacolets including geraniums are at risk" is a translation error btw. "All our slow-flying drones, including Geran (Russian produced Shaheds) are at risk." is the correct translation.
So UKR found a way to detect and destroy RuZ long range high altitude drones with cheap FPV?
They always find a way. Clever lads, for sure.
It's really hard to escape the "Orcs vs Dwarves" comparisons.
I think Skavin vs Dwarves is a better comparison. The Skavin are an endless horde that is constantly backstabbing and stealing. The only reason they’re fighting is they’re whipped and hope to someday hold the whip. They blame all failures on others and accept no responsibility for their actions.
Yes. I’ve aready seen videos of high-flying FPV drones taking out Orlan-10’s. They can fly literal circles around them up there because winged drones are no match. Its insanely genius. I would expect fpv drones controlled by computer vision alone to be hunting these down very soon if not already.
"because winged drones are no match" The drones that brought down the Orlans wrere winged. They are not the usual Quadcopter-FPVs but purpose-built drone interceptor planes.
I can see mini red barons at 1,000 feet
Thank you☝️👍🏻
I was going to say: I wonder if he's talking about fixed-wing jet-propelled drones. He mentions "They can fly at speeds of up to 500 kmph". I suppose I could be wrong but I don't think there is any way he is talking about quadcopters here. Racing drones (quadcopters) top out at 160, 180?
I don't think propellera can do supersonic well, and tend to be *really* loud and inefficient iirc. A jet wngine would be better in terms of range, accelleration, and stability. With a prop, the sonic boom off each propeller is constantly slamming into the wings and airframe, with a jet it's all behind you.
Theyve been using both for a while now. Depending on the type of drone and where it is, the FPV style quads are far more nimble and maneuverable.
I'm sure they have applied computer vision. It would be very difficult for a human to detect one in the sky even if he/she knows the general location.
Why very difficult? Dont forget they are getting intel from the west/5eyes. Theyve real time vhr satellites staring all day. They can watch em take off and can detect them in flight. Theyve been using cellular/mesh network of microphones aswell tracking drones and artillery cracks for a while now. Once you know where they taking off its trivial to watch em, not to mention all the radars and various other platforms that could be used to track things in the sky, especially the larger ISR drones.
You're missing the mark with all of that. Those techniques may help detect the presence of drones but don't solve the problem of actually hitting it with another drone. It's difficult because they are very small objects and at any substantial distance will have high angular momentum. That makes them difficult to track visually with a drone's camera. If you zoom out it's too small to see and if you zoom in it moves too fast to track easily.
Finding something so small in in the air is pretty hard I'm guessing. They must have good radars is my guess, I'm no expert at this correct me if I'm wrong. If a radar can find it then it maybe be theortically possible to direct the drone to the air target. I also asked chatgpt and it said yes. 😄
Yes that is *theoretically* possible, but in practice it's rather complicated to do something like that and the vast majority of drones are far more simplistic than that. Most of them are flying purely on visual guidance and/or GPS controlled from short range transceivers. What you're describing is essentially how a system like Patriot operates. The radar on the ground tracks incoming targets and steers the missile towards them, then the missile uses its onboard sensors to help zero in at the end. Problem being how expensive and complex that kind of system is.
Not only that, most drones don't have much metal in them which makes them hard to find on radar. Surveilance drones especially. I wonder how ukraine is going about this, i can think of a few ways, but i'll keep that to myself for now because i suspect one method over the rest which i've seen mentioned in only one article and it's gloriously ingenious. Actually, scratch that, i suspect 2 methods now thay i think on it. One would be good for wide area coverage, the other is more for pinpointing but could be done en mass at a greater cost.
at very short ranges for final targeting modern automotive radar chips and processors may be cheap and light enough. Infrared detectors may be inexpensive enough now.
With civilian aviation cleared out, it's the perfect control environment for tonnes of experimental stuff. They can press concepts into live-service and combat with the speed and freedom companies dream of.
I imagine the sky would provide a good contrast plus EW measures would put both drones at risk.
I was enjoying the idea of a taco shaped like a maxipad flying through the sky, though.
Yeah… that gave me another read too! Yours I had to think about a second; but of course that’s the logical form a 🌮 would take to fly! Slava Ukraini!
Thought that was a reference to the triangular wing
thank you for the translation. i was left wondering what has taco and beautiful plant has to do with this war lol
I read somewhere that one of the things that Ukraine is doing is getting cell phones with SIM card and mics. Putting them on 6 foot tall sticks and leaving them on. Helps them triangulate where a some drones are at or the direction they are going. I am sure they are also using some other secret techniques as well. Edit: https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-news/how-ukraine-is-using-mobile-phones-on-6ft-poles-to-stop-drones/#:~:text=Ukraine%20is%20using%20a%20network,Europe%20at%20a%20recent%20event.
Is that Sims 3 or Sims 4 ?, asking for an FSB agent
Funniest shit ever
They also got (are getting?) Swedish AWACS. Which will probably be able to pickup a baseball throw in Belogrod. There will be no hiding.
There's a video from Kherson a couple months ago, they intercepted the russian drone video feed, and an FPV pilot used that to figure out where it was and took it out
The Phone on Stick-system benefits for the defeneder. Russians are fu*ked on so many levels.
I bet they are using Nokia phones, Russians are truly fucked
Theyve also newer western mesh monitors, that listen to the cracks of artillery barrels, among other things.
My cousin did something similar in Afghanistan. They used basically weather balloon network to triangulate gun shots and noise. I wouldn't even be surprised if they are using the same balloons, they are super effective, that's basically all he did. Attached a bunch of cheap phones to balloons and now you have an acoustic detection network that is pretty cheap and effective, genius
I heard about it, [but I thought it failed.](https://www.wired.com/2011/04/cameras-spy-balloons-surge-in-afghanistan/) Cannot find any recent articles on it because of the chinese balloon over the USA. I would imagine having a camera attached to a weather balloon looking down would help it detect fix winged drones. BTW first time a balloon was used in war was the Napoleonic Wars.
The Ukrainians are going to target your *everything* You picked a fight with the Cossacks… and the price you’ll pay will be more than you can afford.
It’s like people forget that Ukraine was a big part of the USSR lol.
Come to think of it I haven't heard much about Russian helicopters attacking armour in a fair while.
They can only do it when Ukraine push, range on those missiles is crap and they need to be guided, so helis can only fire them from safe distance behind the frontline.
IIRC the Rf version of hellfire is 10-12km
In defense Ukraine doesn't have columns of armour near the front line like when they were on offense. It's probably not worth having a helicopter shot down without a target rich environment. It's also more important to take out armour when they are assaulting your positions due to the immediate consequences of not stopping it.
And manpads have a range of 5-8 km. Easy to see why armour is safe from helicopters a few km behind the front lines.
Theres been reported hits on Ukrainian armor from 15miles with the vikhrs, but thats along time to ride a beam in a heli.
Especially given that the KA-50/52's guidance camera is below the cockpit, so it needs to be high enough to see the target over that distance. Just unfortunate that Ukraine didn't have enough quantities of AA missiles capable of reaching out that far during their push last year.
Russian helicopters are still often used for lobbing unguided rockets and firing LMUR.
Ya but those gators are no longer launching vikhr's which is much more ideal.
They arent because Ukranians arent going on any big mechanized assaults anymore. If they did they would be launching Vikhrs again
It's the thing that will immediately shift the power to Ukraine. Send many more high tech anti-drone stuff. Kinetic, laser, EM, AI drones, whatever.
I think Ukrainians are one step ahead of everyone in this field at the moment. No one was expecting a ww1 kind of war with trenches and artillery AND 200$ drones .
I love how World War I is re-evolving. Back then, planes were first observers flying over the battlefield and then they started hand-dropping grenades over the side and then they got guns and then at some point along the way they got bombs. Small drones were sort of the same at first -- observers and then initially being rigged with grenades to drop. (Of course, there's no equivalent to a suicide drone in World War I.) In past years people were talking about unmanned fighter planes, imagining high tech fancy fighter planes with automation replacing a pilot in the cockpit. In other words, sort of top down. But maybe it'll be more like World War I -- from the bottom up, with fancier drones with more and more capabilities being added on as they develop. We're now reaching the point of air to air battles and drone dog fights.
I've been thinking we're probably headed toward small, extremely agile jet drones that'll be used to target recon drones like an interceptor. Maybe close air support drones armed with rockets and a 7.62 machine gun. I'm imagining a footprint of less than 3x3 meters. The ability to be quickly deployed from random roads. Probably using another drone located well behind the front as a data relay.
Nah, just make the interceptor tough. Ramming most recon drones (which are gemerally made out of weaker materials that won't reflect radar to avoid detection) with a heavier and faster drone would do the job. Build the interceptor right and you can even keep going on more intercepts until your gas runs out.
I believe the f35 can be flown in autonomous mode no? I might be mistaken on this
Might be thinking of the B-21, which is *reported* to be either capable, or in the future will be capable, of autonomous flight.
That is correct. And I assume that, let’s say the NATO (to cover all) learn a lot from them and if (if!) they aren’t ignorant and stupid their industry will boosted to another level. The good thing about this development is that Russian companies will suffer because of their technology sanctions to follow. In 1-2 years we will see a lot of movement on the drone market.
Then where are Ukrainian laser anti-drone systems the West has? Where are the systems superior to e.g. Oerlikon AA systems? The AI killer drones?
All the way back in 2016 the U.S. was already able to successfully deploy killer AI drone swarms with just two F-18s. Now people can use drones to even replace fireworks displays. Ukraine wasn't even the first to use consumer drones like DJI in combat. Ukraine will get there eventually. U.S. Military F-18 Launch Test at China Lake [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI) Drone light Show 2024 (there are tons of these) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu80sI3OQAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu80sI3OQAM)
I've been talking about this since drone use first emerged in Ukraine. Forget huge ISR platforms and FPVs and dropping munitions from Baba Yaga drones (as effective and devastating as they all are and can be) but swarm is going to be the name of the game in the future and it is far more terrifying to me. That sound at the end of the China Lake test is the last thing infantry will here when dozens of little hummingbird-sized drones come after each of them individually, and there will be hundreds or even thousands more for your trench-mates, comms, ammo, and vehicles. We haven't even seen this tech used in a combat role yet and they've been improving it for a decade since then. It will emerge like a revelation after first public use just like stealth technology in the 90s.
Actually think of a drone swarm that appears in front of a attack jet and you end up with the equivalent of explosive bird strikes. With enough resources you could build a impenetrable wall of death that nothing large could fly through without being damaged or destroyed. A drone swarm could even work as an intercept for missiles if you can build the many hundreds of thousands needed and you have the radars so they are in the right places at the right times.
Swarm anywhere and anything.
I feel like in a decade its just going to be swarms vs swarms and whoever can build the factories quick enough wins.
Are you sure a laser weapon that needs a big generator is a good idea on a battlefield like Ukraine? Maybe it works well for the navy.
A "big generator"? https://optics.org/news/5/8/19 What do you mean? It fits even on a small HMMV. Or striker. https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2024/03/07/u-s-army-deploys-stryker-armored-vehicle-mounted-laser-m-shorad-in-the-middle-east/
Found this as well on another channel yesterday, waiting to see if the Russians will be able to come up with a solution or not: "Attention The enemy is increasingly holding a "duty FPV" in the sky to fight our "wings" (UAVs), detected (kamikaze) at altitudes from 1200 meters to 2500 meters. How to avoid knocking down your wing? 1) Do not use the standard flight route every time. What does this mean? We took off from n.n., then we fly through the village G, further through the farm K, further to n.n. W. And it repeats itself every time. It is necessary to rebuild the flight route every time so that the enemy's radio intelligence could not locate you on the same route and keep an "on-duty FPV" there 2) establish interaction with your pilots, who will help you in matters of the presence of "these birds" on the flight route, and if they "capture" a picture of an enemy bird, they could tell you where it is flying and heading. 3) try to constantly perform maneuvers during the flight: set (decrease), do not fly a straight route, take such flights as the "eight", etc. (remember the tactics) The relevance of the issue will only grow"
[удалено]
Drone dropped bowls of petunias should take care of those killer geraniums. It will be the geraniums thinking "Oh no, not again"
Simple solution: pack up your shit and go home.
Good
Tacolets, they are all pinatas
> serious An uncommon misspelling of "hilarious".
This war is redefining 21st century combat with the huge impact FPV drones are having both on the ground and the in air, and Russia is learning at least some of these lessons, generally the hard way, but still learning. I *REALLY* hope the NATO is taking copious notes and has visionary thinkers studying the implications and pushing appropriate policy and purchasing to get a couple of steps ahead with countermeasures for defence and anti-jamming + enhanced autonomy for attack. They cannot rely on old assumptions, or its gonna be the Maginot Line all over again...
So I think he means thar ukraine has made fast moving fpv drones and has a good system to detect russian surveillance drones then hit them with fpvs. Some videos have come out of this. If ukraine can develop this capability it would be awesome
Yeah saw a video yesterday of a fpv drone taking out a Russian Orion surveillance drone
I cannot say this enough but Ukraine opened the door to the next generation of soldiers and warfare. Next war will be fought by netrunners and dronefighters
Will the chines work overtime to help Russians achieve the same level of tech?
Ukraine is well aware that victory in the drone war is integral to victory in the overall conflict.
See how they use the word enemy! They people are all sick
I watched a footage it seems that SBU use fpv winged drones to chase those „wings“ and explode them above them. Genius!
who would have thought, that rc model-flying and quadrocopter-racing would develop into a serious warfighting skill... even air to air combat... I mean, they´re using old yak-planes to hunt drones over Odessa. Next thing is a ki-piloted mini-Mustang buzzing the battlefield???
FPV drones can fly 500km/h? Doubt it.