Wow. I was not expecting that ending. Both situations are incredibly tragic. Thank you for telling Jennifer’s story.
I can’t blame the witness for being afraid, but damn, if only they could have done something.
I had to take bystander training for a job before and they told a bunch of sad stories about people walking by violent crimes. I feel for that woman. Can you imagine walking away and then learning the woman was murdered?
>they told a bunch of sad stories about people walking by violent crimes.
Fight or flight.
The average person goes out of their way to avoid confrontation. Only a miniscule minority would even consider the idea of fight in that scenario.
I mean…It’s not exactly fight or flight, in this case?
I don’t think anyone expected Deborah to go confront the men and try to personally rescue Jennifer.
But she left the area, presumably went home or somewhere safe, and then…Didn’t call the police?
I fully understand the “put your own breathing mask on first” idea, and why she would leave vs. confronting. I get that trauma response sometimes causes irrational reactions.
But witnessing something like that and not calling once you are safe, and not talking about it AT ALL until Robs photo was already on the news as a suspect/spouse and the location of the body had been made public makes me kind of skeptical of what Deborah claims to have witnessed.
I wondered the same thing, why didn’t this lady immediately call the police after getting herself somewhere safe? Then it occurred to me that she might be afraid of the police, a drug addict or anyone who doesn’t see authorities as their friend.
Makes me angry and ill. How do you just forget that?
With phones now, you call the police and yell that you’re filming them.
At least I hope that’s what I’d do.
You don't confront them! Get out of sight then you call 911.
Like if u see someone driving erratically, call 911 and let LE deal with it. Maybe you save a life without knowing.
See something, say something!
Yeah
I think a lot of us think we’d intervene, but statistics are not on our side.
People freeze or think things can’t be that bad, that’s why bystander intervention is a training subject. It’s easy to judge people, but after the training my heart just breaks for the witness. I don’t think I’d bounce back from that, even if it’s what 999 people out of 1000 would have done.
Probably didn’t want an innocent civilian coming across his body. I know it would be a horrific find for anyone but maybe he felt the Sheriff’s Office was better equipped to handle it 🥺
I've been suicidal and considered doing it in front of a hospital or a police station so my body is discovered and handled by professionals instead of traumatizing a family member or passerby.
I am from this area. That is exactly why he did it. His family released a statement saying they know who killed Jennifer. A lot of evidence was destroyed in this case over the years. He left 3 letters, and in one of them stated he did not want to burden his family with finding him and it was easier to do it at the FANNIN County Sheriff’s Office (not Bonham) so first responders could get to him. His health was failing him and he wanted to go out on his terms.
That happened in my city. The car sat there for months with a body inside. I always parked near it, because I like parking near the back, away from others 🥴 At 630 in the morning, in the dead of winter, the windows were always frozen over.
https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/body-of-missing-sudbury-man-found-in-abandoned-vehicle-at-hospital-1.6444364
No one
🤦🏼♀️
Omg that's horrible, what a traumatic thing to go through, albeit unknowingly for the 3 months (!) till security finally decided to take a look. It seems it was only the awful smell that even got security out of their warm nooks in the hospital; they'd been multiple complaints about the car! Even if there wasn't a body inside (as you say, often covered by ice on windows), in a hospital parking lot, no car should be there for over 24, maybe 48 hrs, without someone running some checks. Security needs a reboot at that hospital. Unacceptable.
Absolutely unacceptable!
My husband had a major surgery during Covid.
His medical team thought it was best that I stayed with him, but due to Covid protocols, I basically had to live in his room and not leave the hospital, while doing daily tests.
So my car stayed parked in the CICU parking lot for about two weeks and didn’t move.
Within 24 hours, hospital security called the floor nurse and asked if one of their patients had a reason for leaving a car there. The nurse gave them my number.
After that, they gave me a window pass. But would call me very couple days and check that I was still staying in the hospital with my husband, and the vehicle wasn’t abandoned.
It seemed really excessive at the time, but hearing a story like this makes you wonder if they don’t have a really good reason to be thorough.
Exactly, your experience is what I'd expect of a hospital security team: after 24-48hrs, checking plates with people's family/friends who might be staying in the wards for extended periods to see sick loved ones (understandably, those checks can be stressful at a time of already great stress but it's necessary for security and to ensure people can get parking).
There was a mention in the article about a female security guard being attacked outside the hospital, on one of the parking lots, in the months before the car appeared, but, as the anonymous insider at the hospital stated, security didn't fix the problem (e.g. working in teams of 2), they just refused to go outside!
It sounds like this was a case of laziness/apathy on the part of security, plus, the hospital not having checks in place (e.g. no robust complaints program) to ensure security actually fixed the problem, rather than ignoring it. Awful and unacceptable.
Hi. I want you to know that I'm praying for you to find strength and to trust someone who can help you. Whether it's at work, at home, or even going to a hospital and checking in- you are not alone.
I lost my brother to suicide. He was an awesome person, and would want me to tell you that a permanent decision will forever scar those who love you and sometimes we need to love ourselves by reaching out for help-
988lifeline.org
A phone call to 911 anonymously could have saved her life! It’s not my place to judge and I would not want to confront anyone but I don’t believe anything (including personal warrants) would have kept me from making that call.
Yes, it’s very hard for me not to blame a bystander who does nothing when someone is obviously being abducted/violently handled. It’s not like she has to fight the guys, just call the cops after leaving. Anonymously—whatever. Just don’t do nothing.
She did, but investigators years later learned that there was no documentation kept about how the photo lineup was conducted and what other photos were included. So unfortunately it's impossible to gauge whether it was a credible identification. And the witness and her mother who was also a witness are now both dead. And if it was really Jennifer that they saw is despicable that they didn't contact the police. See why I think that in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/s/zXk8gJZRHB).
>…I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed"
Holy fuck, that's extremely fucked up for them to notice THAT & still not calling police. Such shitty people.
Not that I disagree, but why would someone lie about something that shows they're that terrible of a person..? Especially the mom's "that girl's fixin to get raped" comment 🤢
I was just going to say something similar. Sometimes you get the oddballs that like to insert themselves into investigations and such. Something like this just makes them look awful either way though. Not calling anonymously for help is bad enough but lying about this scenario is not much better. So strange.
Ah that makes sense I suppose. I agree the story she gave also didn't really add up, if you were afraid to get involved before how is it any better now? What made it safe to intervene now? I agree, if she did indeed see it she should have called the cops, I don't want to say she is despicable as sometimes people do stupid things especially if there was fear involved but at the same time a life could have been saved or at the very least a criminal brought to justice if she did the bare minimum.
It's probably not hard to find a photo of a murdered woman's husband. She might have known what he looked like already and went for the easy ID in the photo lineup.
Is it just me or did a LOT of stuff happen in one year? They got married and moved and then separated and she started a business? Plus they both had new partners? Wow
OP was wrong about the date they were married. They married in 1996, not 2001.
There's a ton of relevant info in the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/). Such as her ex-husband Rob and Jennifer still having sex, Rob claiming he told her she was pregnant, Rob claiming he was driving around by himself for 5 hours that night and not seeing Jennifer then later admitting he saw her, the alibi of her ex-boyfriend and former business partner James not being well-scrutinized, Jennifer turning down a marriage proposal from James, her relationships with both seemingly being volatile, and issues with the credibility of Deborah's photo lineup identification of Rob.
>She moved three hours away to go to college. A few years later, Rob followed her there, and the couple married in 1996.
>In 1999, the couple bought a house in suburban Dallas, but there was friction brewing.
I feel bad talking bad of the dead but seems she was with some other woman’s man who had kids and one on the way…while still married herself. Did the girlfriend never find out?
Don't forget the business was already failing and facing bankruptcy, like jeez even if they got married in January and she moved back at the beginning of May that's still a lot in 17 months
Exactly, especially if you're innocent because it could take focus away from finding the real guilty party if the junk science gives the cops an excuse to stop investigating every avenue and focus on you.
Same question. And they can pull fetal DNA out of the mother’s blood (now, maybe not in 2002), at some point early in gestation. That’s how they do chromosomal testing.
My guess is that there was no blood to take. Because if the uterus was removed directly post mortem when the blood was not yet clotted, she would have bled out
The removal of the uterus seems to be the biggest clue. Whoever wanted to kill her did not want testing done on the fetus, possibly wanting to avoid being identified as the father?
They did have prenatal paternity testing at that time but it seems a piece of info the average person, let alone man, has to search for. They should have checked both men’s computers.
Edit: someone noted that animal predation would be very simple if there was already a wound so I think more likely she was only stabbed in the groin.
>Deborah and the woman had made eye contact, and Deborah said that the woman looked terrified. However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time.
Oh, how frustrating.
I find that really shitty. She could have made an anonymous phone call or whatever.
'Didn't want to get involved'...what a piss-poor reason to ignore a woman being roughed up right in front of you.
It's worse than that. Deborah claimed that she and her mother saw what appeared to be an abduction involving three men. Whether it's credible is a different story - Deborah didn't report the incident until a year later after watching a news report about the case and there's no documentation about how the photo lineup was conducted. Without knowing what other photos were included and what investigators said to her we just can't gauge how credible the identification was. And now Deborah and her mom are dead. Kind of despicable that neither reported what they saw, especially when you read that Deborah claims that her mom said the following when they saw the incident - "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed".
From the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/):
>DEBRA LAMBERT [police interview]: ...there was three guys out there and a girl. And two guys had the girl by her elbows and it was like she was trying to get away from them and they were restraining her…
>DEBORAH LAMBERT [police interview]: …I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed"
>A year-and-a-half after Jennifer's murder, the Texas Rangers launched their own investigation into the case. They reinterviewed Deborah Lambert.
>Joe Moura: The story was the same … She was very detailed. Redhead, three guys, two were wearing jeans, one was wearing shorts
>Lambert was asked to look at a photo lineup to see if she recognized any of the men the woman was with. She did. She was very clear that one of the men she saw was Rob Holman.
>Joe Moura: Maybe Mrs. Lambert is believable. …Now the situation is, is I worry about how is that lineup done? How many photographs do they show? In other words, do they have a good old boy -- Texan boy there with his baseball cap on? And then they had three Mexican photos next to him, OK? Those are the things I worry about.
>No one can actually follow up with Debra Lambert. She and her mother have both passed away. But Alyssa and Barry Wernick now cling to Lambert's story.
It's kinda scary to call the cops. I had to a while ago because it really sounded like someone in our building was hurting their kid. The police WOULD NOT follow up unless I gave them my name and contact information, which they then told to the parents.
And I didn't think to use a fake name or whatever, I was in hysterics hearing that poor kid, I just wanted something done.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I had the same thing happen to me in a very small apartment building. I could hear a man beating a woman, called the cops and they refused to dispatch until I gave them my name! I was absolutely panicking because I could hear her screaming and him yelling and the building was so small they already knew it would be me calling. 🤦🏼♀️ Honestly it would have been way worse if it was a kid.
It made calling the cops for help very scary. I’m already anxious and don’t like confrontation. You just want to stop the situation without making yourself so vulnerable to retribution.
I dunno man. I think the feeling that you’d be wasting police time is very strong.
For example, we had a grocery shopping delivery late at night. The delivery driver had called me to see if he could be a bit early. I said sure, he turned up with the delivery. Young skinny kid, looked about 19-22.
About 20 mins after the delivery I had a long voicemail message (as long as my phone will record for before it cuts the caller off). From the delivery driver. I could hear weird wet thumping, muffled whimpering, and someone shouting with real hatred in their voice. Stuff like “yeah, take that, you c*nt”. It sounded for all intents and purposes like someone was beating up the delivery guy, and in the process his phone had pocket dialled the last number (ie me!)
It was a deeply unsettling voicemail. It was all very muffled, with long periods of silence, but the overall effect was creepy. I played it to my husband and he agreed. I started to worry maybe someone had jumped the kid, or attacked him inside their house. I rang the supermarket he delivered for, but it was out of hours. I rang 111 (uk non emergency number) and was on hold for 45 minutes! I needed to go to bed! So I eventually rang 999, feeling a bit foolish.
They were very nice, and were great the whole way through, but it turned out to be nothing. Just him unloading the van and swearing apparently (??!? - honestly, so weird, the fury in the main voice I heard, and the other weird noises). So I felt like a dick for wasting police time and probably getting this kid in trouble at his work. And as I was ringing 999 I was like “what if my call blocks someone having a heart attack? Or being beaten up by their partner *right now*?” We all know emergency services are over stretched and under staffed.
I’d do what I did again, but I get why Deborah felt uncertain as to how to act.
I understand where you are coming from but think if the driver was actually being beaten, you could’ve saved him. Also think if you heard that voice message, didn’t call the police and the driver turned up dead, would you not feel 10000 times worst? What I’m saying is only the people who maliciously choose to waste police time should feel guilty, not people who want to help
\^\^\^\^ this x10
I'd rather call and look like a fool then have to live with myself knowing I maybe could've stopped a murder ... or let the killer(s) get away.
Oh I do agree with you! I did all the calculating you talk about in my head, and stand by what I did.
But I’m a pretty confident person, who’s had a lot or experience with the police (I’m a criminologist so have worked with them a lot when doing research - also I’m middle class & white so my experiences are generally positive and very different from others). So I get why not-like-me people talk themselves out of acting.
I do understand completely and agree with you. I just think it is sad that someone would walk away and not call anonymously at least. I understand the bystander effect as well but still. I wish as humans we were better and wish the police was better so that people feel comfortable calling them.
I have no qualms calling the police to investigate. The dispatcher can screen the call and get the proper authorities involved. Several years ago I witnessed a car cut off a motorcycle causing him to crash. She didn’t stop. I got a partial plate, description of the driver, and make and color of the vehicle. My son, his friend, and I got the motorcycle out of the road where it was blocking traffic, and its driver to the curb Where we waited for an ambulance. I gave the police my card when I left. Weeks later I got a card from the drivers mother thanking us for stopping as others drove around him. Turns out he was from out of the country working on a film shoot and was only 22 years old. And knew no one. She said from one mother to another how grateful she was that we had stopped. Oh, and they caught the other driver minutes later and she was cited. And since the young guy had a broken collarbone I can only hope she paid for his medical care. So yes, what a shitty thing to do….by doing nothing. Because you just hope someone stops for you or your loved one.
This was 20 years later. I'm sure it wasn't hard to find a photo of him in a news article about Jennifer.
Edit: I misspoke. The post doesn't say when the witness came forward. I misread the numbers on my first read-through.
Edit 2: I found an article saying Deborah came forward a year after the murder.
Actually, I misspoke. I just re-read the post and it doesn't say when the witness came forward. There were a lot of 2's in that paragraph and I misread the numbers my first time through. Sorry!
That’s alright, no worries. Knowing how long they waited to come forward would shed some light on how credible this sighting was.
Edited to add: looking at the 48 Hours transcript, it looks like she came forward 1 year later. It seems like she says she remembers it because it was on Mother’s Day, but I am really iffy on this sighting. She says she saw the men with the woman around 5 pm, which doesn’t match the timeline, though detectives don’t think this is a dealbreaker. Yeah, I don’t think I give much weight to this sighting.
I find it credible that she saw three people, maybe arguing. But I think it's more likely that she read/heard about the case and went "shit, what if those people were the victim and killers?" and started seeing it through that lens, than that she saw something that obvious to begin with and blew it off.
Seriously… I can understand why you wouldn’t want to interject out of fear but to not make an anonymous emergency call is just shitty. It’s really something that she should have kept to herself because it didn’t really add anything to the investigation. Reading from something posted above, her statement did nothing but make her and her mother look like horrendous people. It’s even more shocking to me that it wasn’t just her that witnessed it and did nothing.
From OP's first link:
>In a letter he [Jennifer's father] left behind, Harris explained that his suicide was unrelated to his daughter’s murder case, the outlet reported.
I'm surprised he not only didn't explicitly state his suicide was related to the murder going unsolved, he said that it was unrelated. Per [an article](https://www.kxii.com/2024/06/05/father-cold-case-murder-victim-commits-suicide-front-fannin-county-sheriffs-office/) this article linked to:
>In it [the letter to the sheriff], Jerry Harris wrote he was tired of fighting his health issues. Adding suicide was his choice, and he chose the sheriff’s office as the location to make it easier for first responders.
And this, from the first article, makes the timing even more surprising.
>Jim Holloway, a private investigator who’s worked on the case, told KXII that he hopes the murder will get a fresh look now that the county has a new sheriff, district judge and district attorney.
>Cody Shook, who became the new Fannin County sheriff-elect after a primary runoff election last month, said in a statement that all of the department’s cold cases will be reviewed again now that modern technology is more widely available.
A lot of people commit suicide for health reasons, but not having the daughter there for a tether was probably a factor, even if he didn't realize it.
Rest in peace to both of them.
God, that poor man. And he still had the kindness and clarity of thought to do it somewhere "convenient" and not make a big scene. I hope he and Jennifer are at peace, together.
Reopening a case is a political promise and while I would want it to always be backed up with good intentions, it may not be. Plus, if they are just planning to get to the cases in the future, it could still be years until they get to hers. Typically when these sort of cold case commitments are made they work from the oldest cases to the most recent, so hers would probably be sitting for a little while and he might have knowledge regarding his health that he’d never live to see the day anyway. I can’t imagine what a toll that would take on a parent so committed to finding justice for their child day in and day out for 22 years. I could also see someone be completely out of fight after so long and not have the energy or mental capacity to keep going with the added struggle of poor and likely only to further decline health, especially as some people that are religious view death as a chance to reunite with their loved ones.
I wonder about the supposed witness. I’d be curious as to why it took them so long to come forward, and even then, how accurate their memory of the day is. I see a reward is being offered… I wonder if someone was just hoping to cash in. Her poor father; no parent deserves go through this.
The eye witness picking out Rob is suspicious. And the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide by an intimate partner. Maybe she told Rob she was pregnant that night, he realized the timing meant it was James’s child, and killed her in a fit of rage/jealousy with the help of a friend/sibling? For some reason, I don’t feel like James was involved
Tragic all around. An unstable relationship should not be a death sentence.
There's no documentation of how the photo lineup was conducted, including what other photos were included. And that witness and her mom who was also a witness died by 2019.
I had this question too. Not to mention Bonham, TX is a small town (population: 10,000) so it’s possible with Rob being a longtime resident that she could have recognized him that way. Not that that would necessarily disqualify the lineup, though.
I don't believe the witness (I think if she saw anything, it was probably something unrelated that kind of got edited in her memory later) but I also suspect Rob for this reason. He figured the baby would make Jennifer insist that he choose, plus maybe was still bitter over the original separation.
I was also curious if the eye witness knew Rob from around town, and knew what Jennifer looked like since they were married?? Bonham is a pretty small town, it’s been hovering around 10,000 people for a long time. If it was a bigger town I’d say it was super unlikely, but it’s possible she recognized Rob’s picture and that’s why she picked him out of the lineup. But still, I find it hard to believe that Rob wasn’t somehow involved.
It’s so eerie that you posted this. I just saw a recommendation on my tv for a 48 Hours on demand episode and it was for Jennifer. Literally hours ago.
I hope they can get answers. I was not expecting to read about Jerry’s passing. My heart started to ache just reading that.
May they rest in peace together.
Such a tragedy for her father and friends. Hopefully he is now reunited with her.
Is this case not very well known? The poster mentioned 48 Hours did an episode but I don’t think I’ve ever come across any other write-up or articles before this one.
Yes, they did. I remember watching it a few times. I'm just having trouble figuring out which season it was. I know it was several years back. If I find it, I'll let you know.
[48 Hours](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8439490/)
> forensic experts in Dallas would later conclude Jennifer's missing uterus wasn't even cut out by the killer. Instead, her uterus and other body parts were destroyed by turtles and fish in the river.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/
I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like they don't think it was removed by humans, but through animal predation after death, along with some other organs. I think it's mentioned specifically bc its absence means we can't get answers about a possible pregnancy as a motive
It wasn’t really clear in the sources. It seemed like they suspected it was from the turtles and there was no mention of any sort of knife wounds to have removed it… but I found it odd turtles would go for an organ over things like the nose or fingers. I wish we had the answer
This is kinda weird to say, maybe, but I’m currently pregnant and have been thinking a lot about how bizarre pregnancy is. In response to the idea that turtles wouldn’t have gone after the uterus… a pregnant uterus has a placenta in it. I would think that’s probably a pretty nutrient-rich, attractive food for a scavenger, given that it’s an organ meant to sustain a developing fetus. If she was indeed pregnant, maybe that’s why.
That's actually a really interesting point... I hadn't though about the uterus being of particular interest to a scavenging animal. But with a nutrient-rich placenta, yeah maybe!
Alternatively, since we can't see the part and the body was decomposing anyway, which always makes getting a full picture tricky, it's also possible they had access to that area from something that happened in the commission of the homicide.
Say, for eg, your angry baby daddy stabs you in the area of the uterus cos how dare you bebe, you bleed out/they finish you off, and you are dumped in the water. Now you have an open, bloody entrance into the body that someone like (let's go fictional, I don't want to cheapen real deaths) Ophelia, who kinda just lied down and drowned herself from sad, would not have to attract local predators to that specific area. From there, it would, sadly, just be what squishy bits they choose.
Organs are soft and have plenty to eat. Noses and fingers are mostly bone, tough to bite through and without much meat on them afterwards. Most scavengers will start with the soft tissues as a result, and yeah, I'd suspect that the uterus would count as one. You also see this with the Dyatlov pass incident, where the missing eyes and tongue that some of the hikers were missing were almost certainly taken by scavengers
Turtles, even snapping turtles, aren't going to be able to remove a full grown human beings uterus in 6 days... Fingers/toes/hell even hands/feet maybe.
Gators would have stuck a body that big under a stump to rot so they could pull it apart into smaller pieces - again wouldn't have removed the uterus, that'd be arms/legs. In a couple of weeks after it had decomposed enough to be soft one might have pulled the body in half but it would have been really REALLY obvious.
Gar's mouths aren't set up to tear flesh neither are catfish.
My understanding (from research I was doing for a murder mystery I was attempting to write lol) is that the uterus of someone pregnant decomposes earlier than that of someone who isn't (and when not pregnant, a person's uterus actually is one of the organs that lasts the longest before decomposing). So that probably doesn't help.
The average lay person couldn't do it tidily. But if you're not squeamish (I am) and don't care about a mess left behind or survival after, I'd wager the average lay person could.
Yeah. I'm willing to buy her body decomposed rapidly enough in the warm water that her abdomen turned into something soft enough for big turtles and fish to gut before she was found (the lack of bony protection around the lower abdomen makes it easy for scavengers to enter and pick apart, plus the digestive track rots quick, encouraging that region to soften faster than the rest of the body), but it's not that hard to find a uterus. You won't cut it out pretty, but it's a decently sized organ even if you're not pregnant and it + the bladder are your only options for 'vaguely water balloon looking thing in the pelvis,' and they're so closely associated finding one means finding the other.
Interestingly enough, the only reason I can see (besides spite) for removing the uterus of a pregnant woman you've murdered is to prevent testing of the embryonic/fetal remains determining paternity and thus, probably making you a POI, but I can't think of any cases where pregnant women were murdered and that was done.
Jerry harris is a great example of a father and I am so sorry that this happened to his family. To search tirelessly for decades, only getting 4 hours of sleep, to be loved and to love someone that much is amazing. I hope he is holding his daughter now in heaven along with his grandbaby💜
Her killer will be caught, we have seen cases that were way colder than this get solved, don’t worry jerry we’ll take over while you rest
>Rob had agreed to take a polygraph test, but then soon backed out. James had also agreed to take a polygraph test, completed the test, and had passed. Neither men were ever charged in relation to Jennifer’s murder.
This always bothers me. It's junk science. It literally means nothing.
I'm skeptical of the eye witness as well and Rob having an accomplice unless he has close family in the area.
James doesn't seem likely just because why would he meet Jennifer in the shack by the lake (although we're assuming the police theory of she met her killer in the shack by the lake).
~~That being said being pregnant, having 1 of the 2 potential fathers having a motive to see her go bye bye, and having 1 of the 2 potential fathers being from out of town so an easy to find place to meet away from prying/talking eyes would be at the park by the lake...~~
~~Yeah seems really likely Rob is involved - the kicker is the uterus/fetus being removed. With that they could do a DNA test and determine the father - that gives a strong indication to me of motive by Rob.~~
~~Unfortunately Bonham is only an hour North of Dallas so he wouldn't have needed to do anything like stop for gas/etc. that would have left a paper trail. I wonder if they looked at his cell phone pings?~~
**EDIT** Okay - discussing this and looking at the articles it would seem I missed some information.
I'm not sure anymore about Ron being the likely killer. The pregnancy and missing uterus seem like red herrings - body was found nude badly decomposed and had floated to shore, bloating could have easily caused a prolapsed uterus, easy access for the turtles to eat a soft fleshy protein rich meal.
Also it sounds a lot like the Sheriff has a suspect but not enough evidence for charges and that there was evidence mishandling that tainted the investigation.
Pity this was 2002, lot of info they probably could have gotten from cell phone records/etc. now.
Exactly. 24 hrs is needed to pass before the missing person report can be made. While everyone knows, including the police, that the first 24 hours are the most important for finding anyone. No logic in that at all.
>Yeah seems really likely Rob is involved - the kicker is the uterus/fetus being removed. With that they could do a DNA test and determine the father - that gives a strong indication to me of motive by Rob.
Someone above did some extra digging and the corner believes that the uterus (and likely other viscera, tbh) were removed due to animal activity as opposed to missing at the hands of her killer.
Rob's alibi was that he was driving around alone for 5 hours. He initially denied seeing Jennifer while he was driving around, then admitted he had seen her. Though they were divorced Jennifer and Rob were having sex and Jennifer seemingly moved back to Bonham to be close to Rob because she wanted to get back together with him.
And the alibi of ger ex-boyfriend, James, leaves a little to be desired. He claimed he was an hour away at a McDonald's with a friend, but there are questions about whether that alibi was well scrutinized.
See the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later
](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/), which goes into a tremendous amount of detail.
And it wasn't just Deborah who witnessed what may have been the abduction of Jennifer - it was Deborah's mother as well. Incidentally, by 2019 both Deborah and her mother had died.
From the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/):
>DEBORAH LAMBERT [police interview]: …I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed"
So Deborah's mother thought that and said that and neither of them contacted the police? Despicable.
This is both sad and disturbing. The site for the local Television station kxii.com has a thorough write up on Mr. Jerry Harris's suicide. Wisefuneralhome.com has his obituary. He had Parkinson's and heart disease. His letter to the Sheriff stated he was tired of fighting health issues and did it in the parking lot so he would be easy to find. I see He chose to go out on his own terms and find it believable.
Jennifer Harris went missing May 2002 and was found 6 days later, dead in the Red River the border between Texas and Oklahoma. Information on the evidence is confusing. By one account her clothing was lost. Another account states the original reports were water damaged in a storage pod. This was evidence in possession of the Fannin county, Texas Sheriff's department. I am not excusing LE but unfortunately these things happen. It's still unforgivable.
She was found on the Oklahoma side of the River and they conducted the initial autopsy. I didn't find further information on the Oklahoma investigation or what records or evidence they may still have.
The day she disappeared was described as rainy. This could account for conflicts about times in witness statements. The mother and daughter who saw her with 3 men on the bridge thought it was about 5pm. Both them were too frightened to come forward initially. They have since passed away.
Her friend said she didn't leave until 8pm after making a call. Did she look at a clock? Was it from the landline or a cellphone? Cell coverage was inconsistent or unavailable in rural areas in 2002.
Condition of the remains: People in rural areas often butcher small animals and wild game as large as deer. Snapping turtles feed on what's easily accessible. It's probable a lethal abdominal wound gave the killer and or the turtles access to her womb. After 6 days there would be little or no evidence of the original wound. I am basing that opinion on experience with animal carcasses.
It's difficult to be certain but based on the photos the caretakers shack was about 12x12 (4m by 4m) single story on a slab. A frame wooden building that size can burn to ground in less than 3 minutes. Wind, rain and surrounding brush could make it almost invisible even if you were looking directly at it. It could easily be mistaken for over the horizon lightning.
Sadly I don't think anyone will ever be convicted for Jennifer Harris's murder. Even if original evidence is found the chain of custody is questionable. I honestly hope it does get solved. As a minimum all Law enforcement needs to learn from these mistakes and correct faulty practices.
my GOD i'd never heard of her story =( this was incredibly heartbreaking to read and so sad the dad did not get the closure he very much so deserved
my brother's murder hasn't been solved and it happened in 2001. my mom still has yet to receive closure and she's now 64. one of the absolute worse noises to ever hear as a child is the painful screaming of someone telling your parent their child has been murdered and to be left with zero answers
sickening
Does anyone remember the following case? I think it's still unsolved. It involves a bystander who tried to do the right thing.
The story was about a woman who was kidnapped from her home. While driving with her kidnapped another driver called 911 because she thought the woman was in danger (I can't remember why). The driver was told NOT to follow the car. And in a royal screw up, the call was forwarded to a different county or something. The woman was later found dead in an empty field. The woman's father was in the police force with some ties to developing the 911 protocol.
>Deborah and the woman had made eye contact, and Deborah said that the woman looked terrified. However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time.
I hate reading things like this. I understand that many people don't want to get involved in a violent incident, especially if they are a more petite or older person and that's understandable but something like this should always be reported ASAP. I realize this was 22 years ago and not everyone had cell phones back then but I'm sure she had a phone at home and could've called the cops as soon as she got home.
I think it's easy to default to rob because he backed out of a polygraph but anxiety can do a lot of things to someone when they have time to think about what they agreed to do knowing the error margin. He listened to his lawyer and said nothing without running it by him first, it's the first rule of being in legal trouble if you ask me
Did anyone talk to her husband/affairs spouses? Men can get angry if they find out about pregnancy but when someone finds out their partners affair is pregnant it can drive some people to an alarming reaction if they are not in a great headspace
There's a ton of relevant info in the 2019 article associated with an episode of 48 Hours - [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/).
If you want to better understand the case it's the best article I've found about the case and it goes into a ton of detail about Jennifer, her ex-husband Rob and ex-boyfriend James, the witness identifying Rob, the potential crime scene, possible motives, how the investigation was bungled, how evidence and files were lost/destroyed, etc. Such as her ex-husband Rob and Jennifer still having sex, Rob claiming he told her she was pregnant, Rob claiming he was driving around by himself for 5 hours that night and not seeing Jennifer then later admitting he saw her, the alibi of her ex-boyfriend and former business partner James not being well-scrutinized, Jennifer turning down a marriage proposal from James, her relationships with both seemingly being volatile, and issues with the credibility of Deborah's photo lineup identification of Rob.
Fathers always feel like they 'should've been there' to protect theur daughter, despite that being unrealistic. This breaks my heart. 💔
And *"...However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time..."*
**How many people have died** because someone took this stance?
Damn, I'm not condoning suicide but at least the man is at peace now, my heart hurts for him and all her family. Does anyone know if they thoroughly searched the boyfriend's homes, were there verifiable alibis?
What a tangled mess. A lot of potentially jealous and/or vengeful people involved here. Her husband, her husband's lover, her ex-partner, etc...
Her husband's lover kinda got the short end of the stick. "I'm separated from my wife...oh wait, she's back, but I'll keep seeing you, okay?" Wtf.
Cheating is bad.
Definitely. She was cheating on her husband with James. James was cheating on his pregnant girlfriend with Jennifer. Then when Jennifer returns to her husband, he is with someone else, but then resumes sleeping with her. Seems that any of the other three parties could have been responsible.
The turtles must have ate her groin region to get all the way to the uterus. Either it happened or it was a cover story to see if Rob revealed anything?
The uterus being removed is a very telling clue. I think that means the culprit is someone whom they *believed* to be the father of the baby. Not even necessarily that they were the father, and even if they were that doesn’t necessarily pinpoint them as the killer, but I think it means *they* thought it would point directly to them.
I think the killer is a guy who makes a lot of assumptions. Like, thinking failing a lie detector test is enough to put them in prison or something.
> forensic experts in Dallas would later conclude Jennifer's missing uterus wasn't even cut out by the killer. Instead, her uterus and other body parts were destroyed by turtles and fish in the river.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/
The Bonham drive in closed in 1987. Did you possibly get mixed up with the Magestic theatre in Bonham, or did they meet at an empty lot used to park heavy machinery?
Wow. I was not expecting that ending. Both situations are incredibly tragic. Thank you for telling Jennifer’s story. I can’t blame the witness for being afraid, but damn, if only they could have done something.
I had to take bystander training for a job before and they told a bunch of sad stories about people walking by violent crimes. I feel for that woman. Can you imagine walking away and then learning the woman was murdered?
>they told a bunch of sad stories about people walking by violent crimes. Fight or flight. The average person goes out of their way to avoid confrontation. Only a miniscule minority would even consider the idea of fight in that scenario.
I mean…It’s not exactly fight or flight, in this case? I don’t think anyone expected Deborah to go confront the men and try to personally rescue Jennifer. But she left the area, presumably went home or somewhere safe, and then…Didn’t call the police? I fully understand the “put your own breathing mask on first” idea, and why she would leave vs. confronting. I get that trauma response sometimes causes irrational reactions. But witnessing something like that and not calling once you are safe, and not talking about it AT ALL until Robs photo was already on the news as a suspect/spouse and the location of the body had been made public makes me kind of skeptical of what Deborah claims to have witnessed.
It boggles the mind.
I wondered the same thing, why didn’t this lady immediately call the police after getting herself somewhere safe? Then it occurred to me that she might be afraid of the police, a drug addict or anyone who doesn’t see authorities as their friend.
It’s actually fight, flight or freeze. Most people freeze, even those who are certain that they would intervene.
Makes me angry and ill. How do you just forget that? With phones now, you call the police and yell that you’re filming them. At least I hope that’s what I’d do.
You don't confront them! Get out of sight then you call 911. Like if u see someone driving erratically, call 911 and let LE deal with it. Maybe you save a life without knowing. See something, say something!
💯
Yeah I think a lot of us think we’d intervene, but statistics are not on our side. People freeze or think things can’t be that bad, that’s why bystander intervention is a training subject. It’s easy to judge people, but after the training my heart just breaks for the witness. I don’t think I’d bounce back from that, even if it’s what 999 people out of 1000 would have done.
Two men against two women (one who’s already been hindered, one would expect) are not great odds. But to not even call the police to file a report?
yeah sorry but fuck deborah 😭
Agreed!!
Too bad this isn’t something taught in schools so that people are more aware of how to handle these situations and spot them out…
Yes, I was not expecting that ending. I wonder what possessed him to do it in front of the Sherriff's Office.
I’m guessing he wanted to be found by the law enforcement authorities and not by children or other bystanders.
Probably didn’t want an innocent civilian coming across his body. I know it would be a horrific find for anyone but maybe he felt the Sheriff’s Office was better equipped to handle it 🥺
I've been suicidal and considered doing it in front of a hospital or a police station so my body is discovered and handled by professionals instead of traumatizing a family member or passerby.
I am from this area. That is exactly why he did it. His family released a statement saying they know who killed Jennifer. A lot of evidence was destroyed in this case over the years. He left 3 letters, and in one of them stated he did not want to burden his family with finding him and it was easier to do it at the FANNIN County Sheriff’s Office (not Bonham) so first responders could get to him. His health was failing him and he wanted to go out on his terms.
Did they say they knew it was the 2 men she was romantic with? This is such a sad story
That happened in my city. The car sat there for months with a body inside. I always parked near it, because I like parking near the back, away from others 🥴 At 630 in the morning, in the dead of winter, the windows were always frozen over. https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/body-of-missing-sudbury-man-found-in-abandoned-vehicle-at-hospital-1.6444364 No one 🤦🏼♀️
Omg that's horrible, what a traumatic thing to go through, albeit unknowingly for the 3 months (!) till security finally decided to take a look. It seems it was only the awful smell that even got security out of their warm nooks in the hospital; they'd been multiple complaints about the car! Even if there wasn't a body inside (as you say, often covered by ice on windows), in a hospital parking lot, no car should be there for over 24, maybe 48 hrs, without someone running some checks. Security needs a reboot at that hospital. Unacceptable.
Absolutely unacceptable! My husband had a major surgery during Covid. His medical team thought it was best that I stayed with him, but due to Covid protocols, I basically had to live in his room and not leave the hospital, while doing daily tests. So my car stayed parked in the CICU parking lot for about two weeks and didn’t move. Within 24 hours, hospital security called the floor nurse and asked if one of their patients had a reason for leaving a car there. The nurse gave them my number. After that, they gave me a window pass. But would call me very couple days and check that I was still staying in the hospital with my husband, and the vehicle wasn’t abandoned. It seemed really excessive at the time, but hearing a story like this makes you wonder if they don’t have a really good reason to be thorough.
Exactly, your experience is what I'd expect of a hospital security team: after 24-48hrs, checking plates with people's family/friends who might be staying in the wards for extended periods to see sick loved ones (understandably, those checks can be stressful at a time of already great stress but it's necessary for security and to ensure people can get parking). There was a mention in the article about a female security guard being attacked outside the hospital, on one of the parking lots, in the months before the car appeared, but, as the anonymous insider at the hospital stated, security didn't fix the problem (e.g. working in teams of 2), they just refused to go outside! It sounds like this was a case of laziness/apathy on the part of security, plus, the hospital not having checks in place (e.g. no robust complaints program) to ensure security actually fixed the problem, rather than ignoring it. Awful and unacceptable.
I hope you’re doing better, and know that there’s people you can turn you. ❤️
I hope you're doing better
That kind of concern for others’ wellbeing is exactly why you need to live and keep putting good out
Hi. I want you to know that I'm praying for you to find strength and to trust someone who can help you. Whether it's at work, at home, or even going to a hospital and checking in- you are not alone. I lost my brother to suicide. He was an awesome person, and would want me to tell you that a permanent decision will forever scar those who love you and sometimes we need to love ourselves by reaching out for help- 988lifeline.org
Maybe he blamed them for not finding Jennifer's killer.
Although the article from "The Independent" says that Mr. Harris wrote in a letter that his suicide was not due to Jennifer's murder.
Except everyone knows better than that.
I don’t believe it. Not for an instant.
Maybe he felt they let him down, not solving her crime?
It was a big "fuck you!" to the sheriff's office for not finding the killer of his daughter.
I took it he was blaming LE for not solving the case. I believe I would have externalized my anguish on the guilty instead of myself. . .
A phone call to 911 anonymously could have saved her life! It’s not my place to judge and I would not want to confront anyone but I don’t believe anything (including personal warrants) would have kept me from making that call.
Anonymous cud have saved a life
That ending is a gut punch. And that witness! Jennifer probably had a glimmer of hope when she saw that woman. How do you ignore something like that?!
Yes, it’s very hard for me not to blame a bystander who does nothing when someone is obviously being abducted/violently handled. It’s not like she has to fight the guys, just call the cops after leaving. Anonymously—whatever. Just don’t do nothing.
I blame the bystander. A lot
It’s indefensible imo
it's probably a fake story and she wasn't a real witness, her account provided literally nothing of evidentiary value
Didn't she ID the husband?
She did, but investigators years later learned that there was no documentation kept about how the photo lineup was conducted and what other photos were included. So unfortunately it's impossible to gauge whether it was a credible identification. And the witness and her mother who was also a witness are now both dead. And if it was really Jennifer that they saw is despicable that they didn't contact the police. See why I think that in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/s/zXk8gJZRHB).
>…I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed" Holy fuck, that's extremely fucked up for them to notice THAT & still not calling police. Such shitty people.
It's so shitty that I really do think they made it up honestly.
Not that I disagree, but why would someone lie about something that shows they're that terrible of a person..? Especially the mom's "that girl's fixin to get raped" comment 🤢
Either out of some weird desire to feel involved, or for the reward money.
I was just going to say something similar. Sometimes you get the oddballs that like to insert themselves into investigations and such. Something like this just makes them look awful either way though. Not calling anonymously for help is bad enough but lying about this scenario is not much better. So strange.
Absolutely deplorable to not contact the police.
Ah that makes sense I suppose. I agree the story she gave also didn't really add up, if you were afraid to get involved before how is it any better now? What made it safe to intervene now? I agree, if she did indeed see it she should have called the cops, I don't want to say she is despicable as sometimes people do stupid things especially if there was fear involved but at the same time a life could have been saved or at the very least a criminal brought to justice if she did the bare minimum.
It's probably not hard to find a photo of a murdered woman's husband. She might have known what he looked like already and went for the easy ID in the photo lineup.
Not as easy in 2002 though
There’s all kinds of documented misidentification that comes from photo ID books and they aren’t reliable.
I've lived in that part of Texas, and that sounds about right. People are surprisingly unhelpful/unfriendly.
Is it just me or did a LOT of stuff happen in one year? They got married and moved and then separated and she started a business? Plus they both had new partners? Wow
OP was wrong about the date they were married. They married in 1996, not 2001. There's a ton of relevant info in the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/). Such as her ex-husband Rob and Jennifer still having sex, Rob claiming he told her she was pregnant, Rob claiming he was driving around by himself for 5 hours that night and not seeing Jennifer then later admitting he saw her, the alibi of her ex-boyfriend and former business partner James not being well-scrutinized, Jennifer turning down a marriage proposal from James, her relationships with both seemingly being volatile, and issues with the credibility of Deborah's photo lineup identification of Rob. >She moved three hours away to go to college. A few years later, Rob followed her there, and the couple married in 1996. >In 1999, the couple bought a house in suburban Dallas, but there was friction brewing.
Thank you so much for clarifying this for me/us. I’m going to change it right now. I appreciate you.
Maybe OP could fix that error /u/TaraCalicosBike
Thank you for tagging me! I’m going to fix that right now.
I wondered about this, too.
I feel bad talking bad of the dead but seems she was with some other woman’s man who had kids and one on the way…while still married herself. Did the girlfriend never find out?
She was trifling..... let's just be real.
She was. Sounds like the men were too but only she lost her life.
Don't forget the business was already failing and facing bankruptcy, like jeez even if they got married in January and she moved back at the beginning of May that's still a lot in 17 months
Nit necessarily. They say 60% of restaurants fail in their first year, I’m sure it’s the same for massage places.
My guess is that Rob was advised by his attorney not to take the polygraph.
There’s never a good reason to take one
Exactly, especially if you're innocent because it could take focus away from finding the real guilty party if the junk science gives the cops an excuse to stop investigating every avenue and focus on you.
Yeah, it's nothing more than a psychological tactic.
[удалено]
Same question. And they can pull fetal DNA out of the mother’s blood (now, maybe not in 2002), at some point early in gestation. That’s how they do chromosomal testing.
I was thinking the same, but it’s possible she was too decomposed maybe
My guess is that there was no blood to take. Because if the uterus was removed directly post mortem when the blood was not yet clotted, she would have bled out
The removal of the uterus seems to be the biggest clue. Whoever wanted to kill her did not want testing done on the fetus, possibly wanting to avoid being identified as the father?
The uterus was not ripped by her murderer….
They did have prenatal paternity testing at that time but it seems a piece of info the average person, let alone man, has to search for. They should have checked both men’s computers. Edit: someone noted that animal predation would be very simple if there was already a wound so I think more likely she was only stabbed in the groin.
There were other body parts missing as well, and according to the OP, it was determined it was due to animals in the water.
>Deborah and the woman had made eye contact, and Deborah said that the woman looked terrified. However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time. Oh, how frustrating.
I find that really shitty. She could have made an anonymous phone call or whatever. 'Didn't want to get involved'...what a piss-poor reason to ignore a woman being roughed up right in front of you.
It's worse than that. Deborah claimed that she and her mother saw what appeared to be an abduction involving three men. Whether it's credible is a different story - Deborah didn't report the incident until a year later after watching a news report about the case and there's no documentation about how the photo lineup was conducted. Without knowing what other photos were included and what investigators said to her we just can't gauge how credible the identification was. And now Deborah and her mom are dead. Kind of despicable that neither reported what they saw, especially when you read that Deborah claims that her mom said the following when they saw the incident - "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed". From the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/): >DEBRA LAMBERT [police interview]: ...there was three guys out there and a girl. And two guys had the girl by her elbows and it was like she was trying to get away from them and they were restraining her… >DEBORAH LAMBERT [police interview]: …I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed" >A year-and-a-half after Jennifer's murder, the Texas Rangers launched their own investigation into the case. They reinterviewed Deborah Lambert. >Joe Moura: The story was the same … She was very detailed. Redhead, three guys, two were wearing jeans, one was wearing shorts >Lambert was asked to look at a photo lineup to see if she recognized any of the men the woman was with. She did. She was very clear that one of the men she saw was Rob Holman. >Joe Moura: Maybe Mrs. Lambert is believable. …Now the situation is, is I worry about how is that lineup done? How many photographs do they show? In other words, do they have a good old boy -- Texan boy there with his baseball cap on? And then they had three Mexican photos next to him, OK? Those are the things I worry about. >No one can actually follow up with Debra Lambert. She and her mother have both passed away. But Alyssa and Barry Wernick now cling to Lambert's story.
Now it’s three? Hard to keep a secret between 2 people, let alone 3.
Thanks a lot, Deborah.
I think we can all agree that Deborah sucks
Deborah? more like "Yeh-Bruh, I walked my happy ass directly past a murder in progress and didn't do jack shit about it!"
It's kinda scary to call the cops. I had to a while ago because it really sounded like someone in our building was hurting their kid. The police WOULD NOT follow up unless I gave them my name and contact information, which they then told to the parents. And I didn't think to use a fake name or whatever, I was in hysterics hearing that poor kid, I just wanted something done.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I had the same thing happen to me in a very small apartment building. I could hear a man beating a woman, called the cops and they refused to dispatch until I gave them my name! I was absolutely panicking because I could hear her screaming and him yelling and the building was so small they already knew it would be me calling. 🤦🏼♀️ Honestly it would have been way worse if it was a kid. It made calling the cops for help very scary. I’m already anxious and don’t like confrontation. You just want to stop the situation without making yourself so vulnerable to retribution.
I dunno man. I think the feeling that you’d be wasting police time is very strong. For example, we had a grocery shopping delivery late at night. The delivery driver had called me to see if he could be a bit early. I said sure, he turned up with the delivery. Young skinny kid, looked about 19-22. About 20 mins after the delivery I had a long voicemail message (as long as my phone will record for before it cuts the caller off). From the delivery driver. I could hear weird wet thumping, muffled whimpering, and someone shouting with real hatred in their voice. Stuff like “yeah, take that, you c*nt”. It sounded for all intents and purposes like someone was beating up the delivery guy, and in the process his phone had pocket dialled the last number (ie me!) It was a deeply unsettling voicemail. It was all very muffled, with long periods of silence, but the overall effect was creepy. I played it to my husband and he agreed. I started to worry maybe someone had jumped the kid, or attacked him inside their house. I rang the supermarket he delivered for, but it was out of hours. I rang 111 (uk non emergency number) and was on hold for 45 minutes! I needed to go to bed! So I eventually rang 999, feeling a bit foolish. They were very nice, and were great the whole way through, but it turned out to be nothing. Just him unloading the van and swearing apparently (??!? - honestly, so weird, the fury in the main voice I heard, and the other weird noises). So I felt like a dick for wasting police time and probably getting this kid in trouble at his work. And as I was ringing 999 I was like “what if my call blocks someone having a heart attack? Or being beaten up by their partner *right now*?” We all know emergency services are over stretched and under staffed. I’d do what I did again, but I get why Deborah felt uncertain as to how to act.
I understand where you are coming from but think if the driver was actually being beaten, you could’ve saved him. Also think if you heard that voice message, didn’t call the police and the driver turned up dead, would you not feel 10000 times worst? What I’m saying is only the people who maliciously choose to waste police time should feel guilty, not people who want to help
\^\^\^\^ this x10 I'd rather call and look like a fool then have to live with myself knowing I maybe could've stopped a murder ... or let the killer(s) get away.
Oh I do agree with you! I did all the calculating you talk about in my head, and stand by what I did. But I’m a pretty confident person, who’s had a lot or experience with the police (I’m a criminologist so have worked with them a lot when doing research - also I’m middle class & white so my experiences are generally positive and very different from others). So I get why not-like-me people talk themselves out of acting.
I do understand completely and agree with you. I just think it is sad that someone would walk away and not call anonymously at least. I understand the bystander effect as well but still. I wish as humans we were better and wish the police was better so that people feel comfortable calling them.
I have no qualms calling the police to investigate. The dispatcher can screen the call and get the proper authorities involved. Several years ago I witnessed a car cut off a motorcycle causing him to crash. She didn’t stop. I got a partial plate, description of the driver, and make and color of the vehicle. My son, his friend, and I got the motorcycle out of the road where it was blocking traffic, and its driver to the curb Where we waited for an ambulance. I gave the police my card when I left. Weeks later I got a card from the drivers mother thanking us for stopping as others drove around him. Turns out he was from out of the country working on a film shoot and was only 22 years old. And knew no one. She said from one mother to another how grateful she was that we had stopped. Oh, and they caught the other driver minutes later and she was cited. And since the young guy had a broken collarbone I can only hope she paid for his medical care. So yes, what a shitty thing to do….by doing nothing. Because you just hope someone stops for you or your loved one.
I wouldn’t let it bother you too much,this is a very clearly made up story by Deborah.
Picked the husband out of a line up?
This was 20 years later. I'm sure it wasn't hard to find a photo of him in a news article about Jennifer. Edit: I misspoke. The post doesn't say when the witness came forward. I misread the numbers on my first read-through. Edit 2: I found an article saying Deborah came forward a year after the murder.
She picked him out of the lineup 20 years later? If that's true, this sighting holds no validity.
Actually, I misspoke. I just re-read the post and it doesn't say when the witness came forward. There were a lot of 2's in that paragraph and I misread the numbers my first time through. Sorry!
That’s alright, no worries. Knowing how long they waited to come forward would shed some light on how credible this sighting was. Edited to add: looking at the 48 Hours transcript, it looks like she came forward 1 year later. It seems like she says she remembers it because it was on Mother’s Day, but I am really iffy on this sighting. She says she saw the men with the woman around 5 pm, which doesn’t match the timeline, though detectives don’t think this is a dealbreaker. Yeah, I don’t think I give much weight to this sighting.
I find it credible that she saw three people, maybe arguing. But I think it's more likely that she read/heard about the case and went "shit, what if those people were the victim and killers?" and started seeing it through that lens, than that she saw something that obvious to begin with and blew it off.
I can’t imagine seeing a terrified woman being dragged in the dark by two men and not calling the police. Especially if she looked me in the eye.
Right?
I think it’s fake. Someone inserting themselves into the story. Otherwise, what a garbage human being.
Different degrees of garbage, but either explanation is pretty damn garbage.
Seriously… I can understand why you wouldn’t want to interject out of fear but to not make an anonymous emergency call is just shitty. It’s really something that she should have kept to herself because it didn’t really add anything to the investigation. Reading from something posted above, her statement did nothing but make her and her mother look like horrendous people. It’s even more shocking to me that it wasn’t just her that witnessed it and did nothing.
From OP's first link: >In a letter he [Jennifer's father] left behind, Harris explained that his suicide was unrelated to his daughter’s murder case, the outlet reported. I'm surprised he not only didn't explicitly state his suicide was related to the murder going unsolved, he said that it was unrelated. Per [an article](https://www.kxii.com/2024/06/05/father-cold-case-murder-victim-commits-suicide-front-fannin-county-sheriffs-office/) this article linked to: >In it [the letter to the sheriff], Jerry Harris wrote he was tired of fighting his health issues. Adding suicide was his choice, and he chose the sheriff’s office as the location to make it easier for first responders. And this, from the first article, makes the timing even more surprising. >Jim Holloway, a private investigator who’s worked on the case, told KXII that he hopes the murder will get a fresh look now that the county has a new sheriff, district judge and district attorney. >Cody Shook, who became the new Fannin County sheriff-elect after a primary runoff election last month, said in a statement that all of the department’s cold cases will be reviewed again now that modern technology is more widely available.
“to make it easier for first responders” 💔💔💔
A lot of people commit suicide for health reasons, but not having the daughter there for a tether was probably a factor, even if he didn't realize it. Rest in peace to both of them.
God, that poor man. And he still had the kindness and clarity of thought to do it somewhere "convenient" and not make a big scene. I hope he and Jennifer are at peace, together.
Reopening a case is a political promise and while I would want it to always be backed up with good intentions, it may not be. Plus, if they are just planning to get to the cases in the future, it could still be years until they get to hers. Typically when these sort of cold case commitments are made they work from the oldest cases to the most recent, so hers would probably be sitting for a little while and he might have knowledge regarding his health that he’d never live to see the day anyway. I can’t imagine what a toll that would take on a parent so committed to finding justice for their child day in and day out for 22 years. I could also see someone be completely out of fight after so long and not have the energy or mental capacity to keep going with the added struggle of poor and likely only to further decline health, especially as some people that are religious view death as a chance to reunite with their loved ones.
Jennifer's dad was promised by the sheriff the case would be reopened. This is local to me and a sad state of "good ole boys".
Christ this is tragic from start to finish. All those lives ruined.
I'm guessing the 2022 was a typo and it was 2002, but why the hell did that witness not call the police when she witnessed that???
I fixed that, thank you!
I wonder about the supposed witness. I’d be curious as to why it took them so long to come forward, and even then, how accurate their memory of the day is. I see a reward is being offered… I wonder if someone was just hoping to cash in. Her poor father; no parent deserves go through this.
The eye witness picking out Rob is suspicious. And the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide by an intimate partner. Maybe she told Rob she was pregnant that night, he realized the timing meant it was James’s child, and killed her in a fit of rage/jealousy with the help of a friend/sibling? For some reason, I don’t feel like James was involved Tragic all around. An unstable relationship should not be a death sentence.
Her picking out Rob kinda depends whether Rob’s photo was on TV and if she saw it. If so, it could very easily be a false memory.
There's no documentation of how the photo lineup was conducted, including what other photos were included. And that witness and her mom who was also a witness died by 2019.
I had this question too. Not to mention Bonham, TX is a small town (population: 10,000) so it’s possible with Rob being a longtime resident that she could have recognized him that way. Not that that would necessarily disqualify the lineup, though.
Also, Rob was dating two women at the time. Maybe it was his baby but he didn’t want to leave the other woman for Jennifer and the baby…
I don't believe the witness (I think if she saw anything, it was probably something unrelated that kind of got edited in her memory later) but I also suspect Rob for this reason. He figured the baby would make Jennifer insist that he choose, plus maybe was still bitter over the original separation.
I was also curious if the eye witness knew Rob from around town, and knew what Jennifer looked like since they were married?? Bonham is a pretty small town, it’s been hovering around 10,000 people for a long time. If it was a bigger town I’d say it was super unlikely, but it’s possible she recognized Rob’s picture and that’s why she picked him out of the lineup. But still, I find it hard to believe that Rob wasn’t somehow involved.
It’s so eerie that you posted this. I just saw a recommendation on my tv for a 48 Hours on demand episode and it was for Jennifer. Literally hours ago. I hope they can get answers. I was not expecting to read about Jerry’s passing. My heart started to ache just reading that. May they rest in peace together.
Such a tragedy for her father and friends. Hopefully he is now reunited with her. Is this case not very well known? The poster mentioned 48 Hours did an episode but I don’t think I’ve ever come across any other write-up or articles before this one.
Yes, they did. I remember watching it a few times. I'm just having trouble figuring out which season it was. I know it was several years back. If I find it, I'll let you know. [48 Hours](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8439490/)
48 hours on ID the episode is called murder on red river season 9 episode 25
48 hours on ID the episode is called murder on red river season 9 episode 25
It's interesting the uterus was removed - i would not think that would be something a lay person could do or have the understanding how to do.
> forensic experts in Dallas would later conclude Jennifer's missing uterus wasn't even cut out by the killer. Instead, her uterus and other body parts were destroyed by turtles and fish in the river. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/
TIL thank you
I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like they don't think it was removed by humans, but through animal predation after death, along with some other organs. I think it's mentioned specifically bc its absence means we can't get answers about a possible pregnancy as a motive
i dunno it's not super clear from the write up but it is an odd detail for sure.
It wasn’t really clear in the sources. It seemed like they suspected it was from the turtles and there was no mention of any sort of knife wounds to have removed it… but I found it odd turtles would go for an organ over things like the nose or fingers. I wish we had the answer
This is kinda weird to say, maybe, but I’m currently pregnant and have been thinking a lot about how bizarre pregnancy is. In response to the idea that turtles wouldn’t have gone after the uterus… a pregnant uterus has a placenta in it. I would think that’s probably a pretty nutrient-rich, attractive food for a scavenger, given that it’s an organ meant to sustain a developing fetus. If she was indeed pregnant, maybe that’s why.
That's actually a really interesting point... I hadn't though about the uterus being of particular interest to a scavenging animal. But with a nutrient-rich placenta, yeah maybe!
Alternatively, since we can't see the part and the body was decomposing anyway, which always makes getting a full picture tricky, it's also possible they had access to that area from something that happened in the commission of the homicide. Say, for eg, your angry baby daddy stabs you in the area of the uterus cos how dare you bebe, you bleed out/they finish you off, and you are dumped in the water. Now you have an open, bloody entrance into the body that someone like (let's go fictional, I don't want to cheapen real deaths) Ophelia, who kinda just lied down and drowned herself from sad, would not have to attract local predators to that specific area. From there, it would, sadly, just be what squishy bits they choose.
Animals go for buttholes. Especially scavengers.
I heard house cats tend to start at the face which I find oddly tender and sweet.
That’s why they paw your face in the morning when it’s time to eat.
They’re tenderizing us for future consumption
Nah, picking out the choicest parts.
They're calling out dibs to each other. Lol
Organs are soft and have plenty to eat. Noses and fingers are mostly bone, tough to bite through and without much meat on them afterwards. Most scavengers will start with the soft tissues as a result, and yeah, I'd suspect that the uterus would count as one. You also see this with the Dyatlov pass incident, where the missing eyes and tongue that some of the hikers were missing were almost certainly taken by scavengers
I don’t think it matters if she was actually pregnant. Just her claiming to be would be motive for some acting out of rage and/or fear.
Turtles, even snapping turtles, aren't going to be able to remove a full grown human beings uterus in 6 days... Fingers/toes/hell even hands/feet maybe. Gators would have stuck a body that big under a stump to rot so they could pull it apart into smaller pieces - again wouldn't have removed the uterus, that'd be arms/legs. In a couple of weeks after it had decomposed enough to be soft one might have pulled the body in half but it would have been really REALLY obvious. Gar's mouths aren't set up to tear flesh neither are catfish.
Her body was in water during a warm month, seems pretty plausible for it to decompose faster than a few weeks.
Turtles can so a lot of damage. I'm going to disagree with your assessment based upon my experience with bodies recovered from water.
My understanding (from research I was doing for a murder mystery I was attempting to write lol) is that the uterus of someone pregnant decomposes earlier than that of someone who isn't (and when not pregnant, a person's uterus actually is one of the organs that lasts the longest before decomposing). So that probably doesn't help.
That’s so interesting! Do you have any idea why that is?
Not to get completely dark, but I wonder if it's just an empty organ vs a decaying fetus/embryo inside making the difference.
The average lay person couldn't do it tidily. But if you're not squeamish (I am) and don't care about a mess left behind or survival after, I'd wager the average lay person could.
Yeah. I'm willing to buy her body decomposed rapidly enough in the warm water that her abdomen turned into something soft enough for big turtles and fish to gut before she was found (the lack of bony protection around the lower abdomen makes it easy for scavengers to enter and pick apart, plus the digestive track rots quick, encouraging that region to soften faster than the rest of the body), but it's not that hard to find a uterus. You won't cut it out pretty, but it's a decently sized organ even if you're not pregnant and it + the bladder are your only options for 'vaguely water balloon looking thing in the pelvis,' and they're so closely associated finding one means finding the other. Interestingly enough, the only reason I can see (besides spite) for removing the uterus of a pregnant woman you've murdered is to prevent testing of the embryonic/fetal remains determining paternity and thus, probably making you a POI, but I can't think of any cases where pregnant women were murdered and that was done.
Unless you know how to field dress animals. Which I guarantee hillbilly Rob knew how to do.
Jerry harris is a great example of a father and I am so sorry that this happened to his family. To search tirelessly for decades, only getting 4 hours of sleep, to be loved and to love someone that much is amazing. I hope he is holding his daughter now in heaven along with his grandbaby💜 Her killer will be caught, we have seen cases that were way colder than this get solved, don’t worry jerry we’ll take over while you rest
This makes me tear up a little bit. What a beautiful way with words you have.
Thanks for another well-written summary. What a tragic story -- and a shocking update about Jennifer's poor dad.
I wish Cold Justice would take a look at this case!
>Rob had agreed to take a polygraph test, but then soon backed out. James had also agreed to take a polygraph test, completed the test, and had passed. Neither men were ever charged in relation to Jennifer’s murder. This always bothers me. It's junk science. It literally means nothing. I'm skeptical of the eye witness as well and Rob having an accomplice unless he has close family in the area. James doesn't seem likely just because why would he meet Jennifer in the shack by the lake (although we're assuming the police theory of she met her killer in the shack by the lake). ~~That being said being pregnant, having 1 of the 2 potential fathers having a motive to see her go bye bye, and having 1 of the 2 potential fathers being from out of town so an easy to find place to meet away from prying/talking eyes would be at the park by the lake...~~ ~~Yeah seems really likely Rob is involved - the kicker is the uterus/fetus being removed. With that they could do a DNA test and determine the father - that gives a strong indication to me of motive by Rob.~~ ~~Unfortunately Bonham is only an hour North of Dallas so he wouldn't have needed to do anything like stop for gas/etc. that would have left a paper trail. I wonder if they looked at his cell phone pings?~~ **EDIT** Okay - discussing this and looking at the articles it would seem I missed some information. I'm not sure anymore about Ron being the likely killer. The pregnancy and missing uterus seem like red herrings - body was found nude badly decomposed and had floated to shore, bloating could have easily caused a prolapsed uterus, easy access for the turtles to eat a soft fleshy protein rich meal. Also it sounds a lot like the Sheriff has a suspect but not enough evidence for charges and that there was evidence mishandling that tainted the investigation. Pity this was 2002, lot of info they probably could have gotten from cell phone records/etc. now.
I got to that part and had a moment where I just wanted to rant about how we should stop putting any stock in polygraphs or even referencing them.
Yeah that and "can't open a missing person's case for 24h" both just trigger a "lazy incompetent fucking cops" knee jerk response in me...
Exactly. 24 hrs is needed to pass before the missing person report can be made. While everyone knows, including the police, that the first 24 hours are the most important for finding anyone. No logic in that at all.
>Yeah seems really likely Rob is involved - the kicker is the uterus/fetus being removed. With that they could do a DNA test and determine the father - that gives a strong indication to me of motive by Rob. Someone above did some extra digging and the corner believes that the uterus (and likely other viscera, tbh) were removed due to animal activity as opposed to missing at the hands of her killer.
Did Rob have an alibi?
Rob's alibi was that he was driving around alone for 5 hours. He initially denied seeing Jennifer while he was driving around, then admitted he had seen her. Though they were divorced Jennifer and Rob were having sex and Jennifer seemingly moved back to Bonham to be close to Rob because she wanted to get back together with him. And the alibi of ger ex-boyfriend, James, leaves a little to be desired. He claimed he was an hour away at a McDonald's with a friend, but there are questions about whether that alibi was well scrutinized. See the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/), which goes into a tremendous amount of detail.
Just wanted to say fuck Deborah
And it wasn't just Deborah who witnessed what may have been the abduction of Jennifer - it was Deborah's mother as well. Incidentally, by 2019 both Deborah and her mother had died. From the 2019 article [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/): >DEBORAH LAMBERT [police interview]: …I made eye contact with her and … she was scared, terrified look on her face… my mom seen her too and she said "that girl's fixin' to get raped and killed" So Deborah's mother thought that and said that and neither of them contacted the police? Despicable.
How the fuck does a person live with themselves after doing nothing?
Omfg a woman saw her being forced to walk somewhere by two men and didn't fucking call the police? What a first rate fucking coward.
The witness who saw her being held by two men and didn't even call the police is a real dirtbag.
This is both sad and disturbing. The site for the local Television station kxii.com has a thorough write up on Mr. Jerry Harris's suicide. Wisefuneralhome.com has his obituary. He had Parkinson's and heart disease. His letter to the Sheriff stated he was tired of fighting health issues and did it in the parking lot so he would be easy to find. I see He chose to go out on his own terms and find it believable. Jennifer Harris went missing May 2002 and was found 6 days later, dead in the Red River the border between Texas and Oklahoma. Information on the evidence is confusing. By one account her clothing was lost. Another account states the original reports were water damaged in a storage pod. This was evidence in possession of the Fannin county, Texas Sheriff's department. I am not excusing LE but unfortunately these things happen. It's still unforgivable. She was found on the Oklahoma side of the River and they conducted the initial autopsy. I didn't find further information on the Oklahoma investigation or what records or evidence they may still have. The day she disappeared was described as rainy. This could account for conflicts about times in witness statements. The mother and daughter who saw her with 3 men on the bridge thought it was about 5pm. Both them were too frightened to come forward initially. They have since passed away. Her friend said she didn't leave until 8pm after making a call. Did she look at a clock? Was it from the landline or a cellphone? Cell coverage was inconsistent or unavailable in rural areas in 2002. Condition of the remains: People in rural areas often butcher small animals and wild game as large as deer. Snapping turtles feed on what's easily accessible. It's probable a lethal abdominal wound gave the killer and or the turtles access to her womb. After 6 days there would be little or no evidence of the original wound. I am basing that opinion on experience with animal carcasses. It's difficult to be certain but based on the photos the caretakers shack was about 12x12 (4m by 4m) single story on a slab. A frame wooden building that size can burn to ground in less than 3 minutes. Wind, rain and surrounding brush could make it almost invisible even if you were looking directly at it. It could easily be mistaken for over the horizon lightning. Sadly I don't think anyone will ever be convicted for Jennifer Harris's murder. Even if original evidence is found the chain of custody is questionable. I honestly hope it does get solved. As a minimum all Law enforcement needs to learn from these mistakes and correct faulty practices.
The whole thing is heartbreaking, but the ending was an extra punch in the guts 😩
Omg what an all around tragedy.
my GOD i'd never heard of her story =( this was incredibly heartbreaking to read and so sad the dad did not get the closure he very much so deserved my brother's murder hasn't been solved and it happened in 2001. my mom still has yet to receive closure and she's now 64. one of the absolute worse noises to ever hear as a child is the painful screaming of someone telling your parent their child has been murdered and to be left with zero answers sickening
Wow, this is just heartbreaking. Her poor dad, may he rest in peace. I hope the rest of her family gets answers someday.
Does anyone remember the following case? I think it's still unsolved. It involves a bystander who tried to do the right thing. The story was about a woman who was kidnapped from her home. While driving with her kidnapped another driver called 911 because she thought the woman was in danger (I can't remember why). The driver was told NOT to follow the car. And in a royal screw up, the call was forwarded to a different county or something. The woman was later found dead in an empty field. The woman's father was in the police force with some ties to developing the 911 protocol.
Denise Amber Lee, in Florida.
Thanks, that's the story. So heartbreaking. Denise called 911 and there were 5 calls from drivers to report a kidnapping and police still screwed up.
The podcast Final Days on Earth covers this case!
>Deborah and the woman had made eye contact, and Deborah said that the woman looked terrified. However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time. I hate reading things like this. I understand that many people don't want to get involved in a violent incident, especially if they are a more petite or older person and that's understandable but something like this should always be reported ASAP. I realize this was 22 years ago and not everyone had cell phones back then but I'm sure she had a phone at home and could've called the cops as soon as she got home.
I think it's easy to default to rob because he backed out of a polygraph but anxiety can do a lot of things to someone when they have time to think about what they agreed to do knowing the error margin. He listened to his lawyer and said nothing without running it by him first, it's the first rule of being in legal trouble if you ask me Did anyone talk to her husband/affairs spouses? Men can get angry if they find out about pregnancy but when someone finds out their partners affair is pregnant it can drive some people to an alarming reaction if they are not in a great headspace
There's a ton of relevant info in the 2019 article associated with an episode of 48 Hours - [Unsolved murder case is the talk of small Texas town 17 years later](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/). If you want to better understand the case it's the best article I've found about the case and it goes into a ton of detail about Jennifer, her ex-husband Rob and ex-boyfriend James, the witness identifying Rob, the potential crime scene, possible motives, how the investigation was bungled, how evidence and files were lost/destroyed, etc. Such as her ex-husband Rob and Jennifer still having sex, Rob claiming he told her she was pregnant, Rob claiming he was driving around by himself for 5 hours that night and not seeing Jennifer then later admitting he saw her, the alibi of her ex-boyfriend and former business partner James not being well-scrutinized, Jennifer turning down a marriage proposal from James, her relationships with both seemingly being volatile, and issues with the credibility of Deborah's photo lineup identification of Rob.
Fathers always feel like they 'should've been there' to protect theur daughter, despite that being unrealistic. This breaks my heart. 💔 And *"...However, not wanting to get involved, Deborah did not call police at the time..."* **How many people have died** because someone took this stance?
Damn, I'm not condoning suicide but at least the man is at peace now, my heart hurts for him and all her family. Does anyone know if they thoroughly searched the boyfriend's homes, were there verifiable alibis?
Fuck Deborah Lambert
Wow fuck Deborah.
This seems like it's obvious who the killer is.
What a tangled mess. A lot of potentially jealous and/or vengeful people involved here. Her husband, her husband's lover, her ex-partner, etc... Her husband's lover kinda got the short end of the stick. "I'm separated from my wife...oh wait, she's back, but I'll keep seeing you, okay?" Wtf. Cheating is bad.
Definitely. She was cheating on her husband with James. James was cheating on his pregnant girlfriend with Jennifer. Then when Jennifer returns to her husband, he is with someone else, but then resumes sleeping with her. Seems that any of the other three parties could have been responsible.
How come there was no DNA evidence - because the body was in the water?
That is so freaking sad!!’ The whole thing… and the poor Dad.
Seems like some cunt got away with not just one but double murder. Count in the baby. Some police job well done yeah
The turtles must have ate her groin region to get all the way to the uterus. Either it happened or it was a cover story to see if Rob revealed anything?
Heartbreaking when a tragedy ripples out and causes more than one death 💔
The uterus being removed is a very telling clue. I think that means the culprit is someone whom they *believed* to be the father of the baby. Not even necessarily that they were the father, and even if they were that doesn’t necessarily pinpoint them as the killer, but I think it means *they* thought it would point directly to them. I think the killer is a guy who makes a lot of assumptions. Like, thinking failing a lie detector test is enough to put them in prison or something.
> forensic experts in Dallas would later conclude Jennifer's missing uterus wasn't even cut out by the killer. Instead, her uterus and other body parts were destroyed by turtles and fish in the river. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jennifer-harris-2002-unsolved-murder-case-is-the-talk-of-small-texas-town/
Oh okay, my mistake then.
Totally not. It wasn’t very clear from the write up
Not just you, lots of posts
The Bonham drive in closed in 1987. Did you possibly get mixed up with the Magestic theatre in Bonham, or did they meet at an empty lot used to park heavy machinery?