A generalization, to be sure, but Provo is the cultural home of the LDS faithful, while the official church HQ and primary temple is in downtown SLC proper. But like most urban areas, SLC proper is very liberal and tolerant. The further out you go the more red it becomes, with Provo definitely leaning more red.
Again, a generalization, but yes.
Of course "not all red". I've met some self proclaimed conservatives that don't really care what other people do so long as you don't keep them from their thing and generally seems to be more of a deep rural conservative mindset.
It's the not rural but conservative folks that seem to want to affect the personal lives of others most of all in my limited experience, ymmv.
Hello, my friend! I grew up in Utah and it was… hard to put it lightly. Being different wasn’t something a lot of the population accepted. But that was 15 years ago, and many people have moved to Utah bringing diversity with them!
Provo, however, has a huge religious/conservative population, probably one of the highest in the state. That’s the center of where you’ll find the stereotypical Utahn you mentioned. I’d really not recommend it for you, personally. You’ll find class sizes with 35+ per teacher and your kids may be excluded in extracurriculars the LDS church hosts for members only. The Salt Lake City area will be your best bet for tolerance and inclusivity.
Absolutely. I think it’s important to point out that the church is often the center of socialization within many Utah communities, and this definitely carries over to schools. If a kid isn’t participating in church-member only activities such as seminary, youth groups, and church itself, that kid WILL be left out of many social events with their peers that will likely have them feeling left-out and isolated, even if they are friends with their Mormon peers otherwise.
No. It's not. There area lot of really, really great people here, and no matter who you are, you can find community here.
However, institutional racism/discrimination here runs pretty deep. Utah just banned dei, and took that a step farther and set up a governmental snitch hotline so the bigots can make sure that anyone who practices diversity and inclusion can be identified and punished. That's pretty wild. I wish I could leave, and plan to once some family considerations have run their course.
Edit: are a. Not area
I would advise against Provo unless you are LDS, SLC would be better for you. The smaller towns get extremely conservative especially, avoid them as much as you can.
Nothing as long as you are white and preferably lds. As a bisexual male I wouldn't feel comfortable in many of them, a lot of homophobic people in conservative towns. Also a lot of pro trump racist types.
I live in Provo. I'm not white or Mormon.
I'm also a pretty big introvert, so I mostly stay home. Provo doesn't have a night life at all. It's a city of over 100k people and has one small trashy bar. Most places will just straight up close around 9 or 10 on the weekends.
I haven't really faced any intolerance, but again, I keep to myself. My kids seem to do fine, but it's not like they tell us everything, either. They have friends and do stuff, some of their friends are mormon, some aren't. I don't think it's as insular as it was 20+ years ago. The adults seem far worse than the kids. Racially it's mostly white but there is a decent hispanic population as well. It's a college town, so lots of young adults.
Provo will be less tolerant than SLC or CA. People get their pride flags ripped off their porches, but most of the intolerance seems to come from kids direct families (getting kicked out for being gay or leaving the church) rather than other kids.
You do have to deal with neighbors being friendly mostly because they are trying to convert you. They stop being overtly friendly once they realize you're not converting. Not that they are outwardly mean, but you stop seeing/hearing from them (arguably a good thing).
If you want to be part of the neighborhood that means being part of the local ward (mormon name for church congregation). I'll often go to the various ward parties around various holidays (Halloween, Christmas, other events through the year) to mingle. We've always been welcome to those. It's a good way to meet the neighbors and let the kids play with other kids in the neighborhood.
Utah's cost of living has gotten really high. I hear it's now one of the highest in the country. I'm sure it's still cheaper than the expensive parts of CA but it's not going to be a huge drop. I was talking to someone selling an 1940s 3 bed 1 bath that needs a complete remodel and they are going to list it for just under $400k, to give you an idea.
I'm sure some parts of the city are worse than others. My neighborhood has a lot of people that work at BYU and many of them tend to be less conservative than the population as a whole, I think.
I’ve been in Utah for about 5 years (not by choice) and it’s on the more intolerant side for some things. I was here because of the military and we had members who had to be moved from this area because their children were facing pretty bad racist bullying. On my birthday a couple years ago, a group of men outside boondocks (arcade) decided to rip my pride sticker off my car and tear it/crumple it up. There’s also a newer law about trans people using bathrooms in public facilities. There’s a strong religious foundation here that isn’t going away anytime soon that influences much of the culture.
All that being said, I’ve lived here 5 years and while I’ve mildly feared for my safety sometimes, it’s not completely bad. There’s a community in the more urban areas that’s very supportive.
TLDR: There’s a problem here with racism/homophobia/transphobia founded in religion, but it’s not an egregiously dangerous place most of the time.
Edit to add (from my wife): she grew up here and had friends who were told specifically not to hangout with her because her family wasn’t LDS/Mormon and was severely peer pressured into going to church and being baptized.
It's a mixed bag, honestly. As much as Mormons like to believe they're super Red, a lot of their speech just comes across as 'passive aggressive intolerance' while many examples of actual tolerance exists in their individual lives. It's like they are not capable of connecting the dots in their own hypocrisy.
The continued growth of the church relies heavily on recruitment in areas of the world where different races are prevelant, so the church and subsequent culture in Utah is forced to be tolerant from the bottom up.
The missionary program gives almost every male mormon, and a lot more women too now, long term exposure to foreign cultures. I think think that's the main reason it's a mixed bag here.
All that being said, Mormons make up a very tiny percentage of SLC now. The older, traditional and intolerant Mormon views are still heavily represented in our state legislature, so we're pretty far behind the times in a legal sense.
Don't listen to these positive comments. I moved from Boston (California but angry and Irish). Except for the beating heart of blue liberals, it is extremely religious and red. The government is a theocracy, and 1 out of every 4 people you meet is a practicing Christian; Mormon.
You're really going to have a tough time exporting from cali, so many states, like Arizona Idaho Montana, and Texas despise cali transplants and view it as an attack on their traditional valeus that make the state what it is. Utah is no different.
>insane cost of living here in California
First, depending on where you're coming from, and what salary you're planning on getting, the cost of living isn't much better here. It might not be "insane" in the $6-a-gallon-for-gas range, but it's not this Utopian cheap place. Housing costs throughout the Wasatch Front (basically from Provo south to SLC to Ogden north) and in the other major metro areas (St. George, Moab) have skyrocketed, due somewhat to immigration in, but due in large part to lack of emigration out -- Utahns have larger families than average, and more of them want to stay nearby than average, building hasn't kept up with demand, and because of our geography (mountains on one or both sides of us) we're kind of running out of space, so we're short on supply. Maybe it's still better than, you know, San Francisco, but it's not where it was 10 years ago.
>Is Utah a fairly tolerant state
It's hard to articulate this generally. Salt Lake City has the largest Gay Pride festival in the intermountain west; for a while the SLC counsel was majority LGBTQ+. Gov. Cox, in the past, gave a moving speech at Pride, apologizing for bullying gay kids when he was younger. A religious liberty bill also gave civil rights protections for gay people. My friend group around the SLC metro includes three families with trans kids. But as another poster mentioned, recently there has been a crackdown, particularly against trans rights (bathroom bills, sports bills, and the like), against abortion rights, and "indecency" in general. There are pockets of the state that rebel against these statewide mandates, and there are pockets that want even more. There are MAGA LDS folks, and there are non-MAGA LDS folks.
Beyond that sort of stuff, there's just the fact that LDS communities are quite tight knit, and so many social and family events involve or surround the church that, if you're in a high-LDS community, you'll just naturally be left out. So if you go to a high-percentage LDS community, expect not to be as included as if you were a member of the church.
Provo is an extremely high-percentage LDS community. Salt Lake City, most of the western suburbs, and parts of the southeastern part of Salt Lake county, and some northern communities, are not. As more people from California, Texas, and other places move to the south end of Salt Lake County or the northern end of Utah county, it's getting more religiously (and otherwise) diverse, but there's a long way to go there.
> if you're in the greater Salt Lake area?
Just to be clear -- Provo is not in "the greater salt lake area." It's an hour away. It's geographically removed--people from Provo tend to go to different mountains to ski, to shop and recreate in their own areas, etc. It's very demographically different. It's viewed very differently.
If coming from California, SLC is probably going to be enough of a change for you. Provo will feel like you have entered an alien culture, because Mormonism is so dominant there. Your kids would have the hardest time in the schools dominated by LDS culture. Try SLC, and use the money you save to send your kids to charter or private schools. SLC usu votes Democratic. But the whole state us under the Mormon umbrella, and you cannot wholly escape it. Know that going in...it can be a nice place to live.
Provo is a weird place. Lived there for a year as a student, those BYU students were waaay wackier than any U of U or UVU student Ive known.
The further away you get from SLC the more rural religious things get. I’m Asian and frequently travel south for work, I’ve never experienced any discrimination ever here in Utah, but racial discrimination is by and large rare today so take that for what it’s worth.
Utah and especially provo is a very religious and intolerant area yes. If your kids aren't mormon they will find it significantly harder to make friends and be included in social circles. The younger they are the worse it will be
The only place that comes close to tolerant is Salt Lake City proper. As far the USA goes, tolerance is usually a numbers game. The more populated and diverse, the more likely that place is tolerant of difference. Most of Utah doesn’t fit that bill. My dad always justified staying here because it’s a decent place to raise a family. But if your family isn’t white, or middle class, or straight, you’ll encounter some friction or isolation if you’re living in a suburb. But if you fit all that criteria, then congrats you should be fine. In Utah you typically won’t have to worry about violence or drug use while raising a kid. It’s a fairly safe state. But that goes out the window if you’re queer. The year I graduated high school (2016) five queer kids had committed suicide by the end of the school year. If there’s anything to worry about while raising kids in Utah, it’s that.
If you’re worried about your kids being ostracized for being different than their peers (a valid concern), I would recommend steering clear of Utah valley altogether. There’s a pretty clear vibe shift between the two valleys in my opinion, with Utah valley being the place where if you aren’t a conservative active Mormon, you’re the outlier in almost any situation.
While many folks are outwardly nice to people that are different than them, you will face very strong exclusion from them if you aren’t willing to join the church. This will very likely leave you and your kids feeling isolated from your community, except for maybe finding connection with the small minority of other people that don’t fit the mold. Utah valley is a very lonely place if you’re different than the norm.
Source: Grew up in Salt Lake Valley and lived there for a few years as an ex-Mormon, have since moved to Utah valley and have faced much stronger ostracism than I ever did when I lived further North.
I’m openly gay (for almost 6 years now) and born and raised in Salt Lake, never had a problem. However SLC in general is much more tolerant and accepting. As a general rule the further you go from Salt Lake the more Mormon Utah is.
However Mormons in general, while they can still be somewhat discriminatory or intolerant in some capacity, are not nearly as bad as say southern baptists or even Catholics. Utah was the first Republican state in the nation to pass LGBT discrimination protection laws and to ban conversion therapy on minors. Something like 86% of people support said protections, which is even more than California.
Mormons are a unique religion and have a more nuanced worldview than your average conservative christian. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows and obviously my experience doesn’t speak for everyone’s, but I’d much rather live here than say the Deep South.
Yes, but I'm supplemented by disability from the VA. My $4600 a month in CA will go a lot further in Utah.
From the sound of it though, probably not the right fit for my family.
From what I saw, rent for a 3 bedroom apartment was about $1000 less than my 2 bedroom just outside Orange County, but I'm thinking Utah isn't a good fit for us.
We'll probably just end up staying in Cali and give up on home ownership lol
Is Utah a fairly tolerant state? It depends where you are living. salt lake and surrounding areas are the most accepting areas in Utah. Provo is the Mormon capital. So it probably not be as accepting as other cities.
I live closer to SLC and while it is sometimes still not accepting (depends on the people), it’s 100x better than Utah Country
I've lived in Utah my whole life and I feel like it's a fairly tolerant place. I've spent time in Texas and saw more random racism and whatnot there.
Granted, I was raised in Salt Lake County which is fairly liberal compared to the rest of the state. If you can afford it I would recommend Salt Lake and the surrounding suburbs. But even in Provo I don't think it's terrible. But definitely more religious. In Utah County I feel Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs area is a bit more of a tolerant area. A lot of move-ins from out of state in the area, more racially diverse (Salt Lake much more diverse), and way more of a tolerant feeling. I know several people who are transplants from California, and other states, that live in the Saratoga and Eagle Mountain area, so it's a bit less Utah bubble feeling. Even the Mormons are from out of state there.
Only downside is there's massive growth in the area and only 1 main road in and out, and the traffic gets pretty congested.
Parts of Salt Lake county are fine, and I've heard Ogden is pretty good. Of course there are people in every community who are going to be accepting, but as so many have said, Utah is not known for tolerance. Our governor called DEI "borderline evil" and every time there's a Pride parade, you get people flipping out and calling us pedophiles because we believe consenting adults should have rights. So I wouldn't recommend Provo, but other areas perhaps. (I currently live in SLC, and previously lived in Orem and Cedar City)
Utah schools start kindergarten later than California, at age 5 or 6 instead of 4. My mom had to fight the school districts to let her kids enter the correct grade. They wanted them to repeat certain grades since they weren't "old enough".
She then later had to fight them again to let them graduate high school at 16 and 17 because they weren't "old enough".
But to answer your question: the further away from downtown salt lake you are, the less tolerant and accepting the general populace is...if you're not Mormon.
Moving to Utah is like moving to Iran. I can't state it strongly enough: the Mormon church literally espouses a belief in theocracy, where the religion becomes the government, the rule of law, and defines the culture.
The blonde thing is BS. People will try to convert you to LDS faith, but you can just say no. LGBT friendliness will vary dramatically by city and county. You'd be better off asking that question in city specific subs. In general large cities and college towns will be more accepting.
Eh, Utahns rail about Californians coming into the state and ruining things. Especially online. But I have several Californian transplant neighbors and they get along fine with people. I honestly think that's a bit overblown. More likely you'll hear people say something nasty about Californians, but then if they find out You're from California they'll say, "oh but not you, you're great!"
But that's also true of other states with a lot of Californian migration. Every Western State complains about the Californians coming in and messing things up. So it's hardly a uniquely Utah sentiment. Really though, everybody in the state has relatives that live in California, or they used to live there, or vacation there on the regular. So I highly doubt most people you'll actually meet will say rude things.
Provo is awful if you're not a card carrying true-believing mormon.. I even have many mormon friends who refuse to step foot in Provo, let alone Utah County because of the culture down there.
I grew up in Salt Lake County and have lived in Utah County and yeah, it's a weird place. People are friendly, but it's very superficial. The exception being Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain area. There are a lot of out of state transplants in the area so it's less Mormon Utah Bubble feeling there. Even the Mormons in the area are often coming from out of state. I think it's just the nature of the area being a high growth area.
The only downside being traffic is awful since there's just Redwood road to get in and out of it. It's also getting way more expensive, it used to be cheap there.
But if you can afford it Salt Lake County is way more tolerant and diverse.
As others have said you should avoid Provo. Slc is the most liberal place and you would no doubt find your spot here no problem. Worth mentioning as a lower cost alternative is Ogden which imo is more liberal than most towns in the state. It’s about 45 minutes north of downtown salt lake
If you aren’t Mormon you’re going to feel alienated in Provo. There is also a right wing movement that is sweeping over the state. They are banning books, restricting women’s health rights and openly discriminating against trans people. If I had a family I would never subject them to the current culture in Utah.
It depends on the area of the city, honestly. I'd say stay away from anything west of I-215. It's like a third world country in that area. Gangs, bums, garbage and busted ass cars everywhere. Lots of good areas in Utah County, Provo and Orem have some shitty areas, but its mostly nice. Bluffdale and Draper are pretty nice. The mormons are much different than they were 20 years ago, I guess more accepting to keep up with optics, but still as fake as you can imagine.
I honestly think Utah is a beautiful state. The history is interesting, and I think religion often makes a great foundation for strong communities.
My only concern is that my children be able to express themselves fully, regardless of who they are.
Look, Utah is a great place but it is a religious enclave. If you know how to navigate it then you can be happy here but if not you’ll be miserable.
For example, Home Depot is hell on earth on a Saturday here but since the silly morons think Sunday is for continued self gaslighting, with one minor adjustment to your day of shopping it’s a beautiful calm experience. (Same goes for most things on Sunday verses Saturday if they are open, another quirk).
He’s a quick history lesson. You cannot buy a car on Sunday in Utah because a billionaire car salesman who used to own the Utah Jazz didn’t like that other dealerships didn’t close on Sundays like his did. (I’d be interested to know if his dealerships outside of Utah also followed that model, somehow I doubt it, but I digress). So he lobbied, rather easily, and the state legislature made it illegal for a dealer to sell a car on Sunday. Your average person wouldn’t care about someone selling a car whenever but since the Utah government is still highly controlled by Mormons they made that change because he was a billionaire donor to the church and wanted to stifle the competition.
There are a bunch of little quirks like that which outsiders have a hard time acclimating to but when you do you almost have a certain serenity here that is hard to come by in larger states like CA.
If you are mainly worried about your kids then keep to Salt Lake County. Outside of that it’s a crapshoot and really depends on how well you understand the many quirks of Utah.
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Some cities are better than the others, but even the most liberal enclaves get their pride flags stolen and nasty letters from "concerned neighbors". The pressure to conform is strong.
Provo is something like the second least diverse big city in the US, if I remember correctly. I have lived in SLC, Logan, Cedar City, and Ephraim. I strongly dislike Provo, and in my opinion, Cedar City is as bad or even worse. I strongly recommend not living in either. Honestly, the rest of Utah is pretty cool, despite what some people say 😂 I love SLC - it's surprisingly diverse and cool!
I lived there for three years and moved away because it is undeniably the most racist and intolerant place I’ve ever been.
And I’ve lived in both Oklahoma and Uzbekistan. Utah is next-level conservative, borderline rabid fundamentalist.
Don’t move there unless you’re Mormon, you might not even find a job in some places unless you’re a church member.
I moved to Utah recently. Provo feels like a college town tbh. Near SLC is considered more liberal area. I think American Fork/Spanish Fork/Saratoga springs/Eagle Mountain would be good options too if you are looking for a suburb, kids friendly area. Especially EM has many parks for kids.
I feel like people here are friendly but yes most are mormons. I’m not tho. But I feel more safe here compare where I used to live. Less crime, nice nature, but very dry here.
If you are “different” be prepared to be treated “differently”. However, with that being said, I have noticed a huge influx of non Mormons moving here. Thankfully, this is helping with the toxic culture that was created.
I personally didn't find that true. Yeah people rant about it online, and sometimes in family gatherings. But I have several Californian transplant neighbors and nobody gives them any shit.
I didn't think the anti-Californian rhetoric is any worse than other Western States where people complain about Californians as well.
Also many Utahns have relatives in California, used to live there, or they vacation there. So I think the "Utahns hate Californians" thing is a bit overblown.
Stay in Cali...there are a lot of people who ruined California with their voting choices and are now going to other states to do the same thing..you all are a virus and should stay in the mess you made.
Everyone wants to move here for "lower COL" as if growing the population doesn't drive prices up 🙄 Is that not what happened to you, California? Plus, our state sees California income coming in and they're going to charge California prices. You're going to sell your home for a million dollars? Well, we'll go ahead and sell you one for $900k. You're accustom to paying $25 for a burger? We'll open a dozen spots suited to your taste... and wallet.
They’re not tolerant of the ones who call themselves Californians.
They see that license plate of yours you’re going to get dirty looks and cut off left and right until you register your car in UT. Haha
Also if you’re not Mormon, prepare I’m orthodox don’t practice anymore but the Mormons, there isn’t an in between with them they either judge you for not being Mormon or are nice haha. They will try and convert your ass constantly, horrible driving and the stores are just packed with 1 mom and 8 kids while the dad is either sitting in the car or at home because again the Mormon culture.
There isn’t much of a night life, the drinking I mean if you don’t drink that’s fine but the state liquor stores are closed on Sundays most are close at 10 I mean that’s fine that’s the 21st amendment for ya but if you want alcohol just go to the base if you can and get it there or drive to WY or ID.
In all tolerance, they will tolerate you if youre similar to them, if you’re a white Mormon who is married and has multiple children. If you don’t mark all of the criteria then you might as well visit UT not live here.
Very white & religious is preferred, & kids go to charter schools. Poor kids and dark skinned kids go to public schools. That we don't fund very well at all.
A generalization, to be sure, but Provo is the cultural home of the LDS faithful, while the official church HQ and primary temple is in downtown SLC proper. But like most urban areas, SLC proper is very liberal and tolerant. The further out you go the more red it becomes, with Provo definitely leaning more red.
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Again, a generalization, but yes. Of course "not all red". I've met some self proclaimed conservatives that don't really care what other people do so long as you don't keep them from their thing and generally seems to be more of a deep rural conservative mindset. It's the not rural but conservative folks that seem to want to affect the personal lives of others most of all in my limited experience, ymmv.
Haha of course
Yup. Do you live under a rock?
Hello, my friend! I grew up in Utah and it was… hard to put it lightly. Being different wasn’t something a lot of the population accepted. But that was 15 years ago, and many people have moved to Utah bringing diversity with them! Provo, however, has a huge religious/conservative population, probably one of the highest in the state. That’s the center of where you’ll find the stereotypical Utahn you mentioned. I’d really not recommend it for you, personally. You’ll find class sizes with 35+ per teacher and your kids may be excluded in extracurriculars the LDS church hosts for members only. The Salt Lake City area will be your best bet for tolerance and inclusivity.
Absolutely. I think it’s important to point out that the church is often the center of socialization within many Utah communities, and this definitely carries over to schools. If a kid isn’t participating in church-member only activities such as seminary, youth groups, and church itself, that kid WILL be left out of many social events with their peers that will likely have them feeling left-out and isolated, even if they are friends with their Mormon peers otherwise.
No. It's not. There area lot of really, really great people here, and no matter who you are, you can find community here. However, institutional racism/discrimination here runs pretty deep. Utah just banned dei, and took that a step farther and set up a governmental snitch hotline so the bigots can make sure that anyone who practices diversity and inclusion can be identified and punished. That's pretty wild. I wish I could leave, and plan to once some family considerations have run their course. Edit: are a. Not area
Salt lake is much more tolerant than any other part of Utah, especially Provo which is one of the most conservative places in Utah.
I would advise against Provo unless you are LDS, SLC would be better for you. The smaller towns get extremely conservative especially, avoid them as much as you can.
Whats wrong with small, conservative towns?
Nothing as long as you are white and preferably lds. As a bisexual male I wouldn't feel comfortable in many of them, a lot of homophobic people in conservative towns. Also a lot of pro trump racist types.
I live in Provo. I'm not white or Mormon. I'm also a pretty big introvert, so I mostly stay home. Provo doesn't have a night life at all. It's a city of over 100k people and has one small trashy bar. Most places will just straight up close around 9 or 10 on the weekends. I haven't really faced any intolerance, but again, I keep to myself. My kids seem to do fine, but it's not like they tell us everything, either. They have friends and do stuff, some of their friends are mormon, some aren't. I don't think it's as insular as it was 20+ years ago. The adults seem far worse than the kids. Racially it's mostly white but there is a decent hispanic population as well. It's a college town, so lots of young adults. Provo will be less tolerant than SLC or CA. People get their pride flags ripped off their porches, but most of the intolerance seems to come from kids direct families (getting kicked out for being gay or leaving the church) rather than other kids. You do have to deal with neighbors being friendly mostly because they are trying to convert you. They stop being overtly friendly once they realize you're not converting. Not that they are outwardly mean, but you stop seeing/hearing from them (arguably a good thing). If you want to be part of the neighborhood that means being part of the local ward (mormon name for church congregation). I'll often go to the various ward parties around various holidays (Halloween, Christmas, other events through the year) to mingle. We've always been welcome to those. It's a good way to meet the neighbors and let the kids play with other kids in the neighborhood. Utah's cost of living has gotten really high. I hear it's now one of the highest in the country. I'm sure it's still cheaper than the expensive parts of CA but it's not going to be a huge drop. I was talking to someone selling an 1940s 3 bed 1 bath that needs a complete remodel and they are going to list it for just under $400k, to give you an idea. I'm sure some parts of the city are worse than others. My neighborhood has a lot of people that work at BYU and many of them tend to be less conservative than the population as a whole, I think.
Provo has two bars. City limits and ABG’s
City Limits is listed as being permanently closed on Yelp and Google, but no idea if that is accurate or not.
Oh damn! I had a baby last year so I haven’t been to there in a while
I’ve been in Utah for about 5 years (not by choice) and it’s on the more intolerant side for some things. I was here because of the military and we had members who had to be moved from this area because their children were facing pretty bad racist bullying. On my birthday a couple years ago, a group of men outside boondocks (arcade) decided to rip my pride sticker off my car and tear it/crumple it up. There’s also a newer law about trans people using bathrooms in public facilities. There’s a strong religious foundation here that isn’t going away anytime soon that influences much of the culture. All that being said, I’ve lived here 5 years and while I’ve mildly feared for my safety sometimes, it’s not completely bad. There’s a community in the more urban areas that’s very supportive. TLDR: There’s a problem here with racism/homophobia/transphobia founded in religion, but it’s not an egregiously dangerous place most of the time. Edit to add (from my wife): she grew up here and had friends who were told specifically not to hangout with her because her family wasn’t LDS/Mormon and was severely peer pressured into going to church and being baptized.
It's a mixed bag, honestly. As much as Mormons like to believe they're super Red, a lot of their speech just comes across as 'passive aggressive intolerance' while many examples of actual tolerance exists in their individual lives. It's like they are not capable of connecting the dots in their own hypocrisy. The continued growth of the church relies heavily on recruitment in areas of the world where different races are prevelant, so the church and subsequent culture in Utah is forced to be tolerant from the bottom up. The missionary program gives almost every male mormon, and a lot more women too now, long term exposure to foreign cultures. I think think that's the main reason it's a mixed bag here. All that being said, Mormons make up a very tiny percentage of SLC now. The older, traditional and intolerant Mormon views are still heavily represented in our state legislature, so we're pretty far behind the times in a legal sense.
Don't listen to these positive comments. I moved from Boston (California but angry and Irish). Except for the beating heart of blue liberals, it is extremely religious and red. The government is a theocracy, and 1 out of every 4 people you meet is a practicing Christian; Mormon. You're really going to have a tough time exporting from cali, so many states, like Arizona Idaho Montana, and Texas despise cali transplants and view it as an attack on their traditional valeus that make the state what it is. Utah is no different.
>insane cost of living here in California First, depending on where you're coming from, and what salary you're planning on getting, the cost of living isn't much better here. It might not be "insane" in the $6-a-gallon-for-gas range, but it's not this Utopian cheap place. Housing costs throughout the Wasatch Front (basically from Provo south to SLC to Ogden north) and in the other major metro areas (St. George, Moab) have skyrocketed, due somewhat to immigration in, but due in large part to lack of emigration out -- Utahns have larger families than average, and more of them want to stay nearby than average, building hasn't kept up with demand, and because of our geography (mountains on one or both sides of us) we're kind of running out of space, so we're short on supply. Maybe it's still better than, you know, San Francisco, but it's not where it was 10 years ago. >Is Utah a fairly tolerant state It's hard to articulate this generally. Salt Lake City has the largest Gay Pride festival in the intermountain west; for a while the SLC counsel was majority LGBTQ+. Gov. Cox, in the past, gave a moving speech at Pride, apologizing for bullying gay kids when he was younger. A religious liberty bill also gave civil rights protections for gay people. My friend group around the SLC metro includes three families with trans kids. But as another poster mentioned, recently there has been a crackdown, particularly against trans rights (bathroom bills, sports bills, and the like), against abortion rights, and "indecency" in general. There are pockets of the state that rebel against these statewide mandates, and there are pockets that want even more. There are MAGA LDS folks, and there are non-MAGA LDS folks. Beyond that sort of stuff, there's just the fact that LDS communities are quite tight knit, and so many social and family events involve or surround the church that, if you're in a high-LDS community, you'll just naturally be left out. So if you go to a high-percentage LDS community, expect not to be as included as if you were a member of the church. Provo is an extremely high-percentage LDS community. Salt Lake City, most of the western suburbs, and parts of the southeastern part of Salt Lake county, and some northern communities, are not. As more people from California, Texas, and other places move to the south end of Salt Lake County or the northern end of Utah county, it's getting more religiously (and otherwise) diverse, but there's a long way to go there. > if you're in the greater Salt Lake area? Just to be clear -- Provo is not in "the greater salt lake area." It's an hour away. It's geographically removed--people from Provo tend to go to different mountains to ski, to shop and recreate in their own areas, etc. It's very demographically different. It's viewed very differently.
Grew up as a non-mormon in Provo. I would not suggest it. Even just 20-30 min north is going to be better than Provo
If coming from California, SLC is probably going to be enough of a change for you. Provo will feel like you have entered an alien culture, because Mormonism is so dominant there. Your kids would have the hardest time in the schools dominated by LDS culture. Try SLC, and use the money you save to send your kids to charter or private schools. SLC usu votes Democratic. But the whole state us under the Mormon umbrella, and you cannot wholly escape it. Know that going in...it can be a nice place to live.
Provo is a weird place. Lived there for a year as a student, those BYU students were waaay wackier than any U of U or UVU student Ive known. The further away you get from SLC the more rural religious things get. I’m Asian and frequently travel south for work, I’ve never experienced any discrimination ever here in Utah, but racial discrimination is by and large rare today so take that for what it’s worth.
Utah and especially provo is a very religious and intolerant area yes. If your kids aren't mormon they will find it significantly harder to make friends and be included in social circles. The younger they are the worse it will be
The only place that comes close to tolerant is Salt Lake City proper. As far the USA goes, tolerance is usually a numbers game. The more populated and diverse, the more likely that place is tolerant of difference. Most of Utah doesn’t fit that bill. My dad always justified staying here because it’s a decent place to raise a family. But if your family isn’t white, or middle class, or straight, you’ll encounter some friction or isolation if you’re living in a suburb. But if you fit all that criteria, then congrats you should be fine. In Utah you typically won’t have to worry about violence or drug use while raising a kid. It’s a fairly safe state. But that goes out the window if you’re queer. The year I graduated high school (2016) five queer kids had committed suicide by the end of the school year. If there’s anything to worry about while raising kids in Utah, it’s that.
Among queer youth, Utah has the highest suicide rate per capita in the nation.
If you’re worried about your kids being ostracized for being different than their peers (a valid concern), I would recommend steering clear of Utah valley altogether. There’s a pretty clear vibe shift between the two valleys in my opinion, with Utah valley being the place where if you aren’t a conservative active Mormon, you’re the outlier in almost any situation. While many folks are outwardly nice to people that are different than them, you will face very strong exclusion from them if you aren’t willing to join the church. This will very likely leave you and your kids feeling isolated from your community, except for maybe finding connection with the small minority of other people that don’t fit the mold. Utah valley is a very lonely place if you’re different than the norm. Source: Grew up in Salt Lake Valley and lived there for a few years as an ex-Mormon, have since moved to Utah valley and have faced much stronger ostracism than I ever did when I lived further North.
I’m openly gay (for almost 6 years now) and born and raised in Salt Lake, never had a problem. However SLC in general is much more tolerant and accepting. As a general rule the further you go from Salt Lake the more Mormon Utah is. However Mormons in general, while they can still be somewhat discriminatory or intolerant in some capacity, are not nearly as bad as say southern baptists or even Catholics. Utah was the first Republican state in the nation to pass LGBT discrimination protection laws and to ban conversion therapy on minors. Something like 86% of people support said protections, which is even more than California. Mormons are a unique religion and have a more nuanced worldview than your average conservative christian. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows and obviously my experience doesn’t speak for everyone’s, but I’d much rather live here than say the Deep South.
Are you planning to get a job in Utah?
Yes, but I'm supplemented by disability from the VA. My $4600 a month in CA will go a lot further in Utah. From the sound of it though, probably not the right fit for my family.
Idk if that’s true honestly lol it’s pricey here
I don't think it will go as far as you think here. Cost of living has gone up a ton.
From what I saw, rent for a 3 bedroom apartment was about $1000 less than my 2 bedroom just outside Orange County, but I'm thinking Utah isn't a good fit for us. We'll probably just end up staying in Cali and give up on home ownership lol
Is Utah a fairly tolerant state? It depends where you are living. salt lake and surrounding areas are the most accepting areas in Utah. Provo is the Mormon capital. So it probably not be as accepting as other cities. I live closer to SLC and while it is sometimes still not accepting (depends on the people), it’s 100x better than Utah Country
I've lived in Utah my whole life and I feel like it's a fairly tolerant place. I've spent time in Texas and saw more random racism and whatnot there. Granted, I was raised in Salt Lake County which is fairly liberal compared to the rest of the state. If you can afford it I would recommend Salt Lake and the surrounding suburbs. But even in Provo I don't think it's terrible. But definitely more religious. In Utah County I feel Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs area is a bit more of a tolerant area. A lot of move-ins from out of state in the area, more racially diverse (Salt Lake much more diverse), and way more of a tolerant feeling. I know several people who are transplants from California, and other states, that live in the Saratoga and Eagle Mountain area, so it's a bit less Utah bubble feeling. Even the Mormons are from out of state there. Only downside is there's massive growth in the area and only 1 main road in and out, and the traffic gets pretty congested.
No. I'd look at Washington/Oregon if you want tolerant. Utah is better than Idaho, sure, but far worse than California.
Parts of Salt Lake county are fine, and I've heard Ogden is pretty good. Of course there are people in every community who are going to be accepting, but as so many have said, Utah is not known for tolerance. Our governor called DEI "borderline evil" and every time there's a Pride parade, you get people flipping out and calling us pedophiles because we believe consenting adults should have rights. So I wouldn't recommend Provo, but other areas perhaps. (I currently live in SLC, and previously lived in Orem and Cedar City)
Utah schools start kindergarten later than California, at age 5 or 6 instead of 4. My mom had to fight the school districts to let her kids enter the correct grade. They wanted them to repeat certain grades since they weren't "old enough". She then later had to fight them again to let them graduate high school at 16 and 17 because they weren't "old enough". But to answer your question: the further away from downtown salt lake you are, the less tolerant and accepting the general populace is...if you're not Mormon.
Moving to Utah is like moving to Iran. I can't state it strongly enough: the Mormon church literally espouses a belief in theocracy, where the religion becomes the government, the rule of law, and defines the culture.
The blonde thing is BS. People will try to convert you to LDS faith, but you can just say no. LGBT friendliness will vary dramatically by city and county. You'd be better off asking that question in city specific subs. In general large cities and college towns will be more accepting.
Californians aren't liked that much in Utah from my experience.
Californians aren't liked much in any state so we might as well just go where we want lol
That's basically a meme.
Eh, Utahns rail about Californians coming into the state and ruining things. Especially online. But I have several Californian transplant neighbors and they get along fine with people. I honestly think that's a bit overblown. More likely you'll hear people say something nasty about Californians, but then if they find out You're from California they'll say, "oh but not you, you're great!" But that's also true of other states with a lot of Californian migration. Every Western State complains about the Californians coming in and messing things up. So it's hardly a uniquely Utah sentiment. Really though, everybody in the state has relatives that live in California, or they used to live there, or vacation there on the regular. So I highly doubt most people you'll actually meet will say rude things.
Provo is awful if you're not a card carrying true-believing mormon.. I even have many mormon friends who refuse to step foot in Provo, let alone Utah County because of the culture down there.
I grew up in Salt Lake County and have lived in Utah County and yeah, it's a weird place. People are friendly, but it's very superficial. The exception being Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain area. There are a lot of out of state transplants in the area so it's less Mormon Utah Bubble feeling there. Even the Mormons in the area are often coming from out of state. I think it's just the nature of the area being a high growth area. The only downside being traffic is awful since there's just Redwood road to get in and out of it. It's also getting way more expensive, it used to be cheap there. But if you can afford it Salt Lake County is way more tolerant and diverse.
As others have said you should avoid Provo. Slc is the most liberal place and you would no doubt find your spot here no problem. Worth mentioning as a lower cost alternative is Ogden which imo is more liberal than most towns in the state. It’s about 45 minutes north of downtown salt lake
Honestly, if you're Californian moving to Utah expecting ut to be like ca, I don't recommend it.
No, and there's no water, go to Portland
If you aren’t Mormon you’re going to feel alienated in Provo. There is also a right wing movement that is sweeping over the state. They are banning books, restricting women’s health rights and openly discriminating against trans people. If I had a family I would never subject them to the current culture in Utah.
If you're tolerant and considerate toward others here you'll generally receive tolerance and consideration in return.
It depends on the area of the city, honestly. I'd say stay away from anything west of I-215. It's like a third world country in that area. Gangs, bums, garbage and busted ass cars everywhere. Lots of good areas in Utah County, Provo and Orem have some shitty areas, but its mostly nice. Bluffdale and Draper are pretty nice. The mormons are much different than they were 20 years ago, I guess more accepting to keep up with optics, but still as fake as you can imagine.
Wow. People on Reddit are the saddest lot. Apparently everything sucks in Utah.
I honestly think Utah is a beautiful state. The history is interesting, and I think religion often makes a great foundation for strong communities. My only concern is that my children be able to express themselves fully, regardless of who they are.
Look, Utah is a great place but it is a religious enclave. If you know how to navigate it then you can be happy here but if not you’ll be miserable. For example, Home Depot is hell on earth on a Saturday here but since the silly morons think Sunday is for continued self gaslighting, with one minor adjustment to your day of shopping it’s a beautiful calm experience. (Same goes for most things on Sunday verses Saturday if they are open, another quirk). He’s a quick history lesson. You cannot buy a car on Sunday in Utah because a billionaire car salesman who used to own the Utah Jazz didn’t like that other dealerships didn’t close on Sundays like his did. (I’d be interested to know if his dealerships outside of Utah also followed that model, somehow I doubt it, but I digress). So he lobbied, rather easily, and the state legislature made it illegal for a dealer to sell a car on Sunday. Your average person wouldn’t care about someone selling a car whenever but since the Utah government is still highly controlled by Mormons they made that change because he was a billionaire donor to the church and wanted to stifle the competition. There are a bunch of little quirks like that which outsiders have a hard time acclimating to but when you do you almost have a certain serenity here that is hard to come by in larger states like CA. If you are mainly worried about your kids then keep to Salt Lake County. Outside of that it’s a crapshoot and really depends on how well you understand the many quirks of Utah.
Car dealerships aren't open in Wisconsin or Illinois on Sundays either.
That's what we want people to think 🤐
If you were my next door neighbor, I'd mainly care that your yard was reasonably cared for and that you weren't overly noisy.
You're telling me we can't be friends if I park my car on the lawn?
Short answer: No. Longer answer: Some cities are better than the others, but even the most liberal enclaves get their pride flags stolen and nasty letters from "concerned neighbors". The pressure to conform is strong.
NO
I would look at Daybreak or Salt Lake area.
Provo is something like the second least diverse big city in the US, if I remember correctly. I have lived in SLC, Logan, Cedar City, and Ephraim. I strongly dislike Provo, and in my opinion, Cedar City is as bad or even worse. I strongly recommend not living in either. Honestly, the rest of Utah is pretty cool, despite what some people say 😂 I love SLC - it's surprisingly diverse and cool!
I lived there for three years and moved away because it is undeniably the most racist and intolerant place I’ve ever been. And I’ve lived in both Oklahoma and Uzbekistan. Utah is next-level conservative, borderline rabid fundamentalist. Don’t move there unless you’re Mormon, you might not even find a job in some places unless you’re a church member.
Just make sure you don't go there to vote for the same shit that caused the high cost of living in California.
I moved to Utah recently. Provo feels like a college town tbh. Near SLC is considered more liberal area. I think American Fork/Spanish Fork/Saratoga springs/Eagle Mountain would be good options too if you are looking for a suburb, kids friendly area. Especially EM has many parks for kids. I feel like people here are friendly but yes most are mormons. I’m not tho. But I feel more safe here compare where I used to live. Less crime, nice nature, but very dry here.
If you are “different” be prepared to be treated “differently”. However, with that being said, I have noticed a huge influx of non Mormons moving here. Thankfully, this is helping with the toxic culture that was created.
Stay in California and stop coming to other states and ruining them like you all ruined California.
Cry moar
You'll probably get more prejudice for being from California than you would for being gay.
I personally didn't find that true. Yeah people rant about it online, and sometimes in family gatherings. But I have several Californian transplant neighbors and nobody gives them any shit. I didn't think the anti-Californian rhetoric is any worse than other Western States where people complain about Californians as well. Also many Utahns have relatives in California, used to live there, or they vacation there. So I think the "Utahns hate Californians" thing is a bit overblown.
Tis true anywhere we go 😂
Stay in Cali...there are a lot of people who ruined California with their voting choices and are now going to other states to do the same thing..you all are a virus and should stay in the mess you made.
hahahahahahahahahaha
No, we hate when Californians move here.
Everyone wants to move here for "lower COL" as if growing the population doesn't drive prices up 🙄 Is that not what happened to you, California? Plus, our state sees California income coming in and they're going to charge California prices. You're going to sell your home for a million dollars? Well, we'll go ahead and sell you one for $900k. You're accustom to paying $25 for a burger? We'll open a dozen spots suited to your taste... and wallet.
They’re not tolerant of the ones who call themselves Californians. They see that license plate of yours you’re going to get dirty looks and cut off left and right until you register your car in UT. Haha Also if you’re not Mormon, prepare I’m orthodox don’t practice anymore but the Mormons, there isn’t an in between with them they either judge you for not being Mormon or are nice haha. They will try and convert your ass constantly, horrible driving and the stores are just packed with 1 mom and 8 kids while the dad is either sitting in the car or at home because again the Mormon culture. There isn’t much of a night life, the drinking I mean if you don’t drink that’s fine but the state liquor stores are closed on Sundays most are close at 10 I mean that’s fine that’s the 21st amendment for ya but if you want alcohol just go to the base if you can and get it there or drive to WY or ID. In all tolerance, they will tolerate you if youre similar to them, if you’re a white Mormon who is married and has multiple children. If you don’t mark all of the criteria then you might as well visit UT not live here.
Very white & religious is preferred, & kids go to charter schools. Poor kids and dark skinned kids go to public schools. That we don't fund very well at all.