I think people think the Jazz are just going to have like all of these new draft picks on the team. The Jazz have assets to improve the team in the coming years. We're probably trading for a second or third star level player at some point with all of this or drafting them. We'll be awesome as early as next year.
I just think about the hypothetical scenario where I'm watching the NBA Draft Lottery and see our name pop up as the #1 or #2 pick. That always sets the TankNote mood for me.
I’m probably a strong representative of the group that wants the Jazz to play, so here is where I stand:
If I could make the Jazz lose the rest of their games this season and end with like the 6th worst record, I’d do to that in a heart beat. The Jazz have not been very good at tanking this season and I doubt their ability to lose games.
And I’m saying that, I would rather make the playoffs instead of finishing 11th in the west and ending up with the 14th pick.
I understand tanking, I wanted it to happen this season, but I don’t believe we can lose games
Doesn't change much, but just so you know if they finish 11th in the west their absolute worst spot is the 12th spot in the lottery with virtually no chance of the 14th pick after the lottery
Then what is your post all about? It contradicts what this commentator said that you apparently agree 100% with. We all understand what tanking means and the potential benefits that would have to the draft. Unless you want to tell some of the current group that we’re trying to build around to lose their fight and lay down then sometimes it is “that hard”.
I'm fine with losing out if it means development, but I think a lot of people (myself included) are just annoyed at the decision making and how things have turned out. If we were gonna tank, why not tank earlier in the year to try and finish bottom 5? Why is it that at the deadline we sold off Vando (who probably could've been kept) Beasley, Conley and NAW for 1 future PROTECTED pick, that if we don't trade could convey as 1 second round pick, while we gave up 2 second round picks? While making Minnesota better in the process while we have their pick..
Also if we're going to be tanking this late in the year, why not trade Clarkson at the deadline? Surely we could've gotten another pick for him right? And now what, we throw him 20-25 million a year on his next deal where his production will probably fall off, or let him walk and hope someone else signs?
Ainge usually makes it work, and I believe in him, but Jesus man some of the decisions here don't quite make sense to me yet, unless that protected first from LA is going to land you some solid role player(s) it just makes no sense to me, and we have to hope we use the cap space in a smart way.
Here’s the rationale of the FO from my perspective. The Jazz acquired so many future draft assets & several young players with potential to build with over the offseason (Lauri, Kessler, Agbaji, Sexton), that they didn’t necessarily have to actively tank going into this season to still rebuild. They wanted to see what they had internally and let players values increase or decrease while building a new competitive culture with Coach Hardy. They knew no matter what they would have 3 1st round picks in one of the most loaded drafts in the last decade and lots of assets to trade as well.
If by trade deadline this team was say 10-15 games above .500 they probably would have become buyers and not sellers. But they were capping out as a overachieving, playin team around .500 that was still pretty inconsistent. They had several players across their roster that increased their value significantly (Beasley, Conley, Vando) and players that solidified themselves as core pieces on the team, that have significantly shortened the rebuild timeline (Lauri, Kessler, Agbaji).
So they chose to get bad contracts off their roster (Conley) & trade a couple of role players they didn’t see in their long term plans for another future asset. I do agree with you that I loved Vando and wish they kept him. All while, clearing the way for lots of salary cap room this offseason. The Clarkson decision seems to be one of mutual interest, because you are right they could’ve traded him. I think several factors went into that and I do think they still see him as a player they’d like to retain with their new core if there is mutual interest.
Now, I’m still in a smaller camp that believes it’s okay for the Jazz to still make the playin/playoffs and give our young core players/coach valuable postseason experience BUT I am also okay with them trying to secure a lottery pick as well at this point because…
We have established a winning/ competitive culture under Hardy that can compete with any team in the league, we have found a star player in Lauri and that Kessler, Agbaji & Sexton have lots of potential to build with. And we have found out the team’s deficiencies and strengths. This season has already been a massive success.
This offseason should be super exciting. The Jazz have the 3 cracks at finding that star player to pair next to Lauri in the draft and hopefully a couple of solid role players as well.
The draft is no sure thing though, so Ainge also has the ability to use those future draft assets to trade for a disgruntled star player to pair next to Lauri and/or trade for some solid role players.
I fully expect the Jazz to go into next season with playoff expectations and I think it’s a legitimate possibility with what we’ve seen this season from this team. Then those future assets just become expendable assets to continue improving internally or externally an already good team.
The reason is because there’s a fine line between tanking and maintaining culture and keeping competitive energy and professional growth in your players.
Tank from the getgo, the players aren’t gonna listen to hardy, they aren’t going to do everything to further their development, bc it’s obvious the org wants them to lose.
This is a scenario where we let players flourish, and then tore it down once we knew what we got, making it hard for the remaining players for about 20 games, admitting this sucks but we’re all in next year on being the best team we can be.
20 games tanking is nothing in the lifecycle of a nba teams era.
You can phrase it that way if you want but it’s completely disingenuous. First off, Exum was the 5th pick. Second, top 3 picks have also produced Lebron, Durant, Harden, Embiid, Luka, Zion, Morant, Tatum, Brown, KAT, Edwards, Davis and Banchero.
If we expand it to the top 10 picks then you would include guys like Curry, George, Westbrook, Paul, Fox, JJJ, Young, and Markkanen
And I didn’t even mention Ingram, Beal, Lamelo, Garland, Wagner, Randle, Kyrie, Cunningham, Giddey, Derozan, and Murray
Statistically you’re more likely to hit on a top 10 pick than one in the teens.
Who would want though? Let’s go first round exit instead!
We did have a team that could win. But it was traded. I don't think if jazz gets Viktor, it would change the tank. Looking at his body and maturity. He is not ready for the nba. He 5 to transform his body to almost like the Greek Freak.
they really don't have to intentionally tank. they are a young team that is gonna be streaky where they may win 5 of 6 then lose 5 of 6. look at the last 16 games. they could play hard and not intentionally suck and still go like 4-12 cause of the teams they are playing
It is that hard for some of them though. They can’t fathom how a first round exit isn’t enticing or even exciting. Mediocrity breeds contempt does not apply to many of these people
Everyone knows why tanking fans are fans of tanking it’s because you’re irrational cultists who don’t actually watch basketball.
But hey, anytime you can suck for years on end in hopes of getting a14% chance to draft the next Enes Kanter you’ve got to do it, right?
Tanking logic demands we dump Walker Kessler for picks because he’s not LeBron yet.
Yeah we get it. But it’s still hard for some of us to be stoked about losing.
I think people think the Jazz are just going to have like all of these new draft picks on the team. The Jazz have assets to improve the team in the coming years. We're probably trading for a second or third star level player at some point with all of this or drafting them. We'll be awesome as early as next year.
I just think about the hypothetical scenario where I'm watching the NBA Draft Lottery and see our name pop up as the #1 or #2 pick. That always sets the TankNote mood for me.
It’s all about winning long term. You still don’t get it
Maybe try explaining it again
I’m probably a strong representative of the group that wants the Jazz to play, so here is where I stand: If I could make the Jazz lose the rest of their games this season and end with like the 6th worst record, I’d do to that in a heart beat. The Jazz have not been very good at tanking this season and I doubt their ability to lose games. And I’m saying that, I would rather make the playoffs instead of finishing 11th in the west and ending up with the 14th pick. I understand tanking, I wanted it to happen this season, but I don’t believe we can lose games
Doesn't change much, but just so you know if they finish 11th in the west their absolute worst spot is the 12th spot in the lottery with virtually no chance of the 14th pick after the lottery
I agree with this 100%
Then what is your post all about? It contradicts what this commentator said that you apparently agree 100% with. We all understand what tanking means and the potential benefits that would have to the draft. Unless you want to tell some of the current group that we’re trying to build around to lose their fight and lay down then sometimes it is “that hard”.
Relax spazz. Yikes
No you don’t fucknuts
I'm fine with losing out if it means development, but I think a lot of people (myself included) are just annoyed at the decision making and how things have turned out. If we were gonna tank, why not tank earlier in the year to try and finish bottom 5? Why is it that at the deadline we sold off Vando (who probably could've been kept) Beasley, Conley and NAW for 1 future PROTECTED pick, that if we don't trade could convey as 1 second round pick, while we gave up 2 second round picks? While making Minnesota better in the process while we have their pick.. Also if we're going to be tanking this late in the year, why not trade Clarkson at the deadline? Surely we could've gotten another pick for him right? And now what, we throw him 20-25 million a year on his next deal where his production will probably fall off, or let him walk and hope someone else signs? Ainge usually makes it work, and I believe in him, but Jesus man some of the decisions here don't quite make sense to me yet, unless that protected first from LA is going to land you some solid role player(s) it just makes no sense to me, and we have to hope we use the cap space in a smart way.
Here’s the rationale of the FO from my perspective. The Jazz acquired so many future draft assets & several young players with potential to build with over the offseason (Lauri, Kessler, Agbaji, Sexton), that they didn’t necessarily have to actively tank going into this season to still rebuild. They wanted to see what they had internally and let players values increase or decrease while building a new competitive culture with Coach Hardy. They knew no matter what they would have 3 1st round picks in one of the most loaded drafts in the last decade and lots of assets to trade as well. If by trade deadline this team was say 10-15 games above .500 they probably would have become buyers and not sellers. But they were capping out as a overachieving, playin team around .500 that was still pretty inconsistent. They had several players across their roster that increased their value significantly (Beasley, Conley, Vando) and players that solidified themselves as core pieces on the team, that have significantly shortened the rebuild timeline (Lauri, Kessler, Agbaji). So they chose to get bad contracts off their roster (Conley) & trade a couple of role players they didn’t see in their long term plans for another future asset. I do agree with you that I loved Vando and wish they kept him. All while, clearing the way for lots of salary cap room this offseason. The Clarkson decision seems to be one of mutual interest, because you are right they could’ve traded him. I think several factors went into that and I do think they still see him as a player they’d like to retain with their new core if there is mutual interest. Now, I’m still in a smaller camp that believes it’s okay for the Jazz to still make the playin/playoffs and give our young core players/coach valuable postseason experience BUT I am also okay with them trying to secure a lottery pick as well at this point because… We have established a winning/ competitive culture under Hardy that can compete with any team in the league, we have found a star player in Lauri and that Kessler, Agbaji & Sexton have lots of potential to build with. And we have found out the team’s deficiencies and strengths. This season has already been a massive success. This offseason should be super exciting. The Jazz have the 3 cracks at finding that star player to pair next to Lauri in the draft and hopefully a couple of solid role players as well. The draft is no sure thing though, so Ainge also has the ability to use those future draft assets to trade for a disgruntled star player to pair next to Lauri and/or trade for some solid role players. I fully expect the Jazz to go into next season with playoff expectations and I think it’s a legitimate possibility with what we’ve seen this season from this team. Then those future assets just become expendable assets to continue improving internally or externally an already good team.
I think you're correct on all of that. More than likely the moves we've made will make sense soon
Right there with you, solid post
The reason is because there’s a fine line between tanking and maintaining culture and keeping competitive energy and professional growth in your players. Tank from the getgo, the players aren’t gonna listen to hardy, they aren’t going to do everything to further their development, bc it’s obvious the org wants them to lose. This is a scenario where we let players flourish, and then tore it down once we knew what we got, making it hard for the remaining players for about 20 games, admitting this sucks but we’re all in next year on being the best team we can be. 20 games tanking is nothing in the lifecycle of a nba teams era.
Yeah there's always levels to it I guess
Ya imagine if we can get top 3 picks. Guys like Kanter and Exum!!!! Would you rather have teens or late picks? Mitchell, gobert.
You can phrase it that way if you want but it’s completely disingenuous. First off, Exum was the 5th pick. Second, top 3 picks have also produced Lebron, Durant, Harden, Embiid, Luka, Zion, Morant, Tatum, Brown, KAT, Edwards, Davis and Banchero. If we expand it to the top 10 picks then you would include guys like Curry, George, Westbrook, Paul, Fox, JJJ, Young, and Markkanen And I didn’t even mention Ingram, Beal, Lamelo, Garland, Wagner, Randle, Kyrie, Cunningham, Giddey, Derozan, and Murray Statistically you’re more likely to hit on a top 10 pick than one in the teens. Who would want though? Let’s go first round exit instead!
Kind and timberwolves have had tons of top ten picks. I dont want a first round exit. I want a first round upset.
Yeah good luck with that because that’s not happening
We did have a team that could win. But it was traded. I don't think if jazz gets Viktor, it would change the tank. Looking at his body and maturity. He is not ready for the nba. He 5 to transform his body to almost like the Greek Freak.
We did not have a team that could win. That’s why we traded them.
they really don't have to intentionally tank. they are a young team that is gonna be streaky where they may win 5 of 6 then lose 5 of 6. look at the last 16 games. they could play hard and not intentionally suck and still go like 4-12 cause of the teams they are playing
It is that hard for some of them though. They can’t fathom how a first round exit isn’t enticing or even exciting. Mediocrity breeds contempt does not apply to many of these people
Everyone knows why tanking fans are fans of tanking it’s because you’re irrational cultists who don’t actually watch basketball. But hey, anytime you can suck for years on end in hopes of getting a14% chance to draft the next Enes Kanter you’ve got to do it, right? Tanking logic demands we dump Walker Kessler for picks because he’s not LeBron yet.