Nah but they kick outcast engineers all the time
Legend is also full or salty people that get mad if you don’t go full books, play cata instead for more chill people
I think most people on legend are grinding for reds, which might be why books are important for them? Whereas Cata players probs already have the reds they need and are just playing for the difficulty of it
I mean to play devils advocate: i kinda understand the frustration of enjoying Cata way more than legend but simultaneously wanting red items. Getting books in cata isnt usual, but it is in legend. So you queue up in a difficulty that you enjoy less than cata ONLY to get reds and then someone shows up that tells you they dont want to get reds.
Doesnt give you the right to be a douche but i get the frustration
Do you have a full complement of red weapons or only the ones you like running? Genuine question, because if it's the latter you'd probably be an anomaly. It's pretty common for people to want to grind for a full set of reds, which would make book runs on Legend the 'fastest' way to do so.
I got perfect reds playing Veteran back when it first became the highest rewarding difficulty. What changed since then? Just the odds of getting Emperor chests?
idk why you got downvoted for asking a simple question. From my understanding, the vaults you get from Legend and Cata give you a higher chance of getting a red weapon. The books give you a higher change of getting emperor vaults, which further boosts your chances and is why a lot of legend players will do full book runs.
I feel like on cata people have played enough that they're comfortable with whatever. In lower difficulties I've had people refuse to start based on gear choices.
I get it, swift bow isn't exactly the meta, but I like it sometimes, fuck you.
When I play cata no one seems to care what I play.
Which is kinda funny because even in Cats I see plenty of people rocking off meta stuff just for variety, even though they can't get certain breakpoints with them that are met way easier in legend.
I've found cata to be straight up easier than 0 book legend too, assumedly this is because those who play cata are better, or atleast more chill, less prone to raging, more experienced, and there's no real benefit to playing cata other than it's a hugher difficulty, so cata doesn't lend it's playerbase to rage about red grinding inefficiency.
Don't know how others see it, but as a regular cata player that sometimes dabbles in Legend: I play for the challenge, so if there is a weaker player joining - even low level - I enjoy it as an additional challenge. As long as a player can contribute at least a little, they are fine in my book. Only exception was that one time when a level 15 player on legend managed to die two (!) times before we even met enemies on the new map. That one got kicked, but I bet he was trolling anyway.
90% of the games I've played have been elf, changing weapons is a necessity.
I like swiftbow on waystalker because her ult allows you to deal with armoured specials while the swiftbow mows down hordes at range. It's good.
I don't like it on Handmaiden/shade because no ammo and no good way to deal with specials at range.
Sometimes I just want to load into a game with Repeater crossbow + Greatsword on shade.
Sometimes I want to play Sword and Hagbane Handmaiden
Sometimes I want to run javelin as my melee weapon and do blockless runs like a masocist.
Is game.
God, i am trying so badly to make shade with dual daggers + swiftbow work on cata, but the regen from crits (even with all crit increases) simply doesnt work, meanwhile with waystalker i can miss more than a third of my shots and still end up ammo positive most of the time, even without kurnous.
The pain is real
Yeah, this is 100% relatable. I think a big chunk of why people dislike swiftbow and crossbow on elf is straight up ammo is impossible to sustain for anything more than 1 off headshots strictly on elites. At which point... why not just take the sniper option for the bow?
A lot of the talent options aren't terribly helpful either, or are placed alongside really strong options for the career that you then need to choice to not have.
Handmaiden's Quiver of Plenty (+40% ammo cap) is up against 15% health bonus and 30% block cost reduction, but fantastic choices.
Bloodfletcher doesn't return enough bolts to be worth trading off Chain Killer or Focused Slaying.
I really enjoy swiftbow on Waystalker because it's just not an issue, you can dump arrows downrange and kill an entire horde, ult once and then keep shooting, it's fun, and I think it's actually quite strong. On Waystalker, at least.
But people have in their head "Elf without longbow = bad" Possible exceptions to this are Javelin and Moonbow, but honestly that depends on the person complaining.
All are viable, I'm not so sure about hagbane for most uses but every other ranged weapon on Kerillian is strong.
A guy I've in my steam friend list have rename "no Engi" with the profil picture that match x)
I play only cata twitch and yeah, even here people are a bit sick of all those engi that just delete any difficulty w/o effort.
Maybe, just maybe, people should ask if their teammates want to go for books? If noone wants to then by all means rush the mission but ask the host what he wants as he is, well, the host thus having the ultimate power over the party (and by that he can just disband If he feels like it, which is a di*k move nonetheless).
Is *that* what it is? Well, I did always say pay gates in gaming were a community quality filter. You get what you pay for, and free to play game communities show it.
Honestly, I've seen people complain about Elf, but other than that nothing.
And even then, nobody kicks elf, just if they do something dumb its "typical elf"
I've had people complain I'm not doing enough and hogging heals as a handmaiden before, even when I'm hard carrying with infinite stagger and hand of shallya.
I think the worst I have ever experienced I was in a tight space split away from the other half of the party babysitting an outcast engineer, who had been taking all the kills of the enemies I was staggering, it was seemingly a good synergy and I thought they understood what I was doing for them as a front line/backline team up.
Suddenly there was a patrol in our way and hoard music just started, I took the initiative to rush and deal with the patrol before things got heated because I didn't think we could avoid the patrol at all, the engineer threw a point blank bomb and ate an overhead and died. I pretty well soloed the patrol in the fire that was still damaging me, on like 5 green health left I revived the dwarf and then tried to heal them with hand of shallya to clear their wound and get my health off just THP
The moment I started using the medkit I took a bunch of MWP shots to the face and went down, it was only at this point I saw that the dwarf had been swearing at me in chat to get them up because they had more bombs to deal with the patrol and also blaming me for pulling the patrol. After I died they took my medkit and added "selfish elf keeping all the health" and used it on themselves.
I respawned ahead and a Sienna came to get me up, but not before I got to spectate the idiot get mobbed with slave rats, they just held out the crank Minigun trying to shoot point blank until they died as well, didn't even try to switch to their melee or dodge once, just took it to the face. They couldn't do anything without my shield to stagger for them.
When they respawned I typed in chat not to untie the team killer and we all 3 just walked past and the OE blew up in chat with slurs, however they didn't leave though and said we're idiots because they'll still get the rewards at the end, I waited until the very end of the level before I started a vote to kick. The OE swearing in chat again that they'd get me back for this, we all voted and the dwarf got booted after having waited for us to finish.
I expected some steam messages but I never heard from them again. Amazing.
Oh man, tangent but that reminds me of a story playing WoW forever ago. Was playong woth a group of randoms to get through a dungeon, and you know it was forever ago as we actually played the dungeon and took a moment to check on everyone before big fights instead of sprinting through.
But we had a big problem: Our tank, a paladin, just kept deciding to go AFK mid fight, repeatedly. They'd just suddenly stop pressing buttons altogether. Now, it was fine if they weren't amazing at tank, the 2 DPS players were at least medium armor, if they lost aggro a moment we wouldn't *immediately* die, but we still expect them to try to do their job! After wiping for the 3rd time vs a bunch of mooks right before the final boss as the Paladin said "Ready!" Pulled the group, and immediately stopped playing, we kicked them.
Instead of queueing up again, we just went to face the final boss as a group of 3. It was tough, but we knew we didn't have a tank. Instead, us 2 DPS players very carefully managed our DPS to keep hitting them, but flipping aggro with just the right timing that neither one took too much damage, while the healer kept flipping targets with the aggro to catch us up on hp in the downtime, and we pulled it off in 1 try! We don't need no AFK tank, we have strategy!
That's actually hilarious that he pulled and then went afk, like what even. Why not just say "wait a moment before boss so I can sort whatever is distracting me and I can pay attention". I never played WoW but I've played some similar MMOs and I never had issues with people having to wait a moment for the group in dungeons, weren't many people rushing new content because they usually understand not everyone is acclimated yet. Only ever rushed the raids that had been out for a few years because everyone up to doing raids had it down pat by now and half the lobby could probably 2 man it due to the new level caps anyway.
But yeah the tank is simultaneously the most helpful role and the least useful, you won't notice that the tank is doing its job when everything is going smoothly, only when you have to pick up the slack.
It especially doesn't help the reputation of the tank that it doesn't really matter in most games anymore, especially modern games, even in many turn based games you can survive without even having a tank at all by just putting a bit more effort in your coordination and DPS.
All of the above can be said about healers too, but at least most players will notice and thank you for healing the health they already lost, nobody thanks a tank for sharing or preventing the damage to you instead.
It's why in games like V2 that lack dedicated healing (except maybe WP lmao) and focus on killing and DPS, you always get the noobs that don't understand the significance of classes like FK, IB and HM, play styles that don't really get kills unless pushed to their limits and will usually have the least kills in an efficient team, but their survivability and CC are bread and butter for smooth runs and clutching the less smooth moments.
HM especially gets it bad because she's lumped in with all the elf hate, which honestly, go be an elf main for a bit and you'll experience way more toxicity from idiots that don't understand elf than you ever actually experience from elf players.
I did something similar in FFXIV. I was playing Machinist and our tank had been afk for a good portion of the dungeon. We were discussing if we should try to do the final boss without a tank or kick & que for a new tank when I realised I had been constantly drawing aggro from the tank from my sheer dps, even with their tank-stance up, before they went afk. So I decided I would tank the boss. I used my range advantage and Sprint to kite the boss and avoid getting hit since I was very squishy as a ranged dps. We managed to do it first try and was honestly very fun.
Honestly in the current meta I feel like OE is the new waystalker.
All the noobs are flocking to it and relying on spam and passive abilities to keep themselves alive without actually learning to play.
Man as a support hand maiden player, playing with OE before it got super buffed was a blast. I held the lines while OE players rained chaos. Was a super fun and rewarding dynamic. Now where its just bombs and noticeably worse players piloting OE, it's just not fun anymore :(.
Equip a shield, use push, repeat. That's pretty much all there is to it, but if you want to specifically build around only pushing, Footknight and Handmaiden are unmatched.
I think Asari Alacrity is the only relevant perk on handmaiden? Her lvl 10 on the right. Pushing or blocking increase attack speed by 30% and power by 10%.
Footknight has a few relevant perks, take anything that mentions stagger power or base power as it will raise your push stagger power too. Don't miss his lvl 10 perk that increases stagger by 35%.
Otherwise try and get +2 stamina and +30% push/ block on your weapons for ease of use and huge crowd control.
It's not essential to have +2 stamina as handmaiden has passive stamina regen and Footknight can also become a stager machine using the mace and shield heavy combo, constantly spamming the attack where you "punch" with the shield, as it doesn't consume stamina and more consistently staggers Chaos Warriors than regular pushing.
+10% power vs Armoured can help against Storm Vermin and chaos warriors but it's not necessary for SV on any difficulty lower than Cataclysm. Chaos Warriors it does help on though.
If you take Opportunist trait on your shield you can also push enemies out of overheads, but it can be inconsistent and I wouldn't rely on it as a life saver. Occasionally it'll work on a boss as footknight with the +30% stagger power too lol.
Warrior Priest also has the LvL 25 perks, prayer of vengeance +25% power vs monsters, or prayer of vengeance +25% stagger. Combo this with Footknights +30% stagger and you can abuse almost any enemies with just pushing if you are going to go all in one break points.
It's actually not a bad option for if you are trying to use AI bots and struggling on higher difficulty is to play as a handmaiden who has good survivability and move tec, then bring a FK and WP bot to just buff you into an unstoppable force. Although you'll move through levels slower due to low damage output, on legend you can relatively effectively push around a chaos spawn with the right build and weapon properties, although I wouldn't try relying on pushing a boss in Cataclysm.
There was a player in the AU/NZ region who would *always* kick elves whenever he was hosting. I still remember the first time I joined a game he was hosting. He said over voice chat that either I agreed to help vote kick any elves or he would end the lobby. I found another game.
That was his MO for at least two years. It was especially weird since I had played with him when he wasn't host and he never mentioned elves then. But when he was host, it didn't matter if you'd played with him (or carried him) before, if you were an elf you were out.
Haven't seen him for a long time now. I can only imagine how he must have felt if he was still playing when Sister of the Thorn released. Maybe that made him leave.
Yeah same, I play a lotta kruber and I never back away from a patrol especially if we have a slayer, even low-key shame them into being brave. Normally I don’t have a preference on patrol on other characters but grail knight and slayer hiding from rats just seems wrong. For grimnir and the lady and go slap some rats and chaos worshippers around.
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Never kicked a slayer or been kicked as a slayer, although I don’t play him much. Maybe they were just crashing. There has been a lot of crashes lately.
I've never seen that & my 2nd main is Slayer 🤣 Actually, for the past 5 months, I've been exclusively playing Slayer. Like one of our fellow members here said: if you have all red gear & are confident about being able to survive then just move to Cata. Btw what region are you in ?
You don't even need all red gear. Having red charms and such is probably a good idea but I've been running cata for ages with some weapons still orange.
Agreed. I remember back in the day, I spent a lot of time on Champion learning the mechanics as, with Vermintide 2, there is more than meets the eye. I mean I came into this thinking it was a hack n slash lol
I only moved to Legend when I could easily survive on Champion. Then Cata & above is a whole other story for another day haha
I've had a couple of those giga-tryhards that don't actually know the game very well try to tell me to change off slayer before because "everyone needs a ranged weapon for cata" which I thought was pretty funny.
But otherwise I haven't seen any disrespect towards slayer. Often teams will hop on the melee goon stack with grail and priest when they see one which is always a good time.
"Total War Warhammer 3" just released an expansion with some focus on Slayers, so maybe a bunch of newer players saw that and wanted to try out Slayer and havn't quite learned it yet, so the 'elite' players are having a bad time?
I don't kick slayers, I Only do that when i witness them doing stupid shit like going foreward without the group and then getting pinned by a special. Although this goes for all classes who don't do proper teamwork especially when I'm playing legend or higher
Only time I’ve kicked a slayer was when he would join in the match, use his jump to glitch through half the map, die, and then aggro half the map onto our team and wipe us.
Depends on the region you play in. I only get kicked from the Keep before the mission starts so they might be waiting for friends (or 2 random CWs after joining late but idk why kicked me as GK and WP). Can't imagine Slayers being hated so much they get kicked for no reason. You have OE for that.
Or you might be the problem as you get downed a lot or use too many heals/potions/bombs or don't help your teammates without knowing it. Not saying this is 100% the case but it might be.
I only kick people for toxic behaviour or noobmaxxing while refusing to accept advice. I have fun with good slayers on my team. As WP I ult them constantly and enjoy the show.
From my experience the two most degenerate types of players are Slayers & Zealots. I have over 2000 hours and of all my games the vast majority of times I notice problematic behaviour are from Slayers and Zealots.
I generally remove them if they start doing things that put the rest of team/run in jeopardy. This could be purposefully pulling a patrol on teammates I KNOW are not up for it, or slayers skipping ahead not letting me get the bots to pick up books (completely inconsiderate behaviour).
I personally don't care, I have all the items I want and have clutched out solo more times than I can count, but I will not subject other teammates that crap. Sometimes even I am not in the mood to babysit these jokers.
Slayer in particular is difficult to play in high difficulties so more than the average player running them is gonna perform like ass. They have a bad reputation as a result and lobbies that are playing seriously or been struggling to complete something will likely dump them immediately. I have yet to come across a good slayer ingame (whether it be skill or good behaviour).
Tonnes of zealots are nothing more than whiny complainers who mistake power for skill #notall.
As to the elf, the occurrence of rushers is so rare in my games it is not really worthy of mention. I feel like the meme on this has far outweighed the reality. Out of the times they rush ahead, as soon as something dangerous spawns they run straight back to the team like the cowards they know they are deep down inside. Slayers will just suicide into it.
What platform are you on? Console players reported lots of crashes lately especially as client. Crashes can look a lot like getting kicked. Might be bad luck with jerks or maybe your name is incredibly offensive. Anyway, no, I rarely see kicks either. I mostly host now and the only time I'll kick is for very underleveled ppl joining high difficulty modes or people being toxic to teammates/using slurs and then doubling down when asked to stop.
slayer is actually pretty good, they're just harder to play. Kicking slayer is just cope, and presumably it's from the types of players that main champ/legend that run 20 miles ahead of the group without understanding actual pacing then insta-die and ragequit.
I play a decent amount of slayer, usually on cata, and if anyone says anything about it it's usually along the lines of "oh thank god it isn't an outcast engi" lol
I’ve seen people throw shade at Slayers because they “typically run ahead and chase circles” or will “aggro a patrol to show off” etc etc. Obvs not all slayers, but not all elf mains and yet they all get painted with the same brush 🙃 So that could be why?
Also, if it’s a class you’re not familiar with and needing to be “carried” more, maybe that’s a reason?
Not justifying the behaviours at all. I think the quick play community can be extremely toxic and I’m thankful I have a full squad of friends that I’ve been able to clock most of my 500 odd hours with.
I played a match today with a run-ahead slayer who pretty much used his ability off-cooldown everytime, rushing ahead and killing everything. He also went down and almost died, requiring a pretty risky play by me to save him which made my slower players fight off a horde by themselves behind, and have no other rats to fight otherwise.
All this on champion just felt bad to play with, as it's kinda where the game gets harder and there's a lot of babysitting I couldn't do because this full-red slayer couldn't beat the patrol he aggro'd solo, you know?
So, for the sake of everyone else on that team, I made sure he wasn't with us next match. Of course, he had played through half the match before I realized he's an issue, so I let him play it out at that point.
That's pretty poor show in general but on champion? Bruh. Like if they were going to do those behaviours, at least have the skill level to hold their own at the easy difficulties lol.
First time hearing this, but that's because I host myself 99% of the time huh. I was only kicking OE when he was op af, don't know if he's balanced enough rn or not.
I rarely had incredible slayers imho, most I've had were jumping in chaos patrols and insta downed.
It's not a rule of thumbs, and I'm not going to kick people preemptively, but I imagine some would.
Nah but they kick outcast engineers all the time Legend is also full or salty people that get mad if you don’t go full books, play cata instead for more chill people
I think most people on legend are grinding for reds, which might be why books are important for them? Whereas Cata players probs already have the reds they need and are just playing for the difficulty of it
That's precisely it- you get people salty if they miss loot
I mean to play devils advocate: i kinda understand the frustration of enjoying Cata way more than legend but simultaneously wanting red items. Getting books in cata isnt usual, but it is in legend. So you queue up in a difficulty that you enjoy less than cata ONLY to get reds and then someone shows up that tells you they dont want to get reds. Doesnt give you the right to be a douche but i get the frustration
As someone in the process of grinding reds, it's soulcrushing nonsense. I can definitely understand if people become salty.
Willing to wager most in cata have 1000+ red dust at this point
I have 1 red dust and I play cataclysm 100% of the time ❤️
Less than 500 hours?
I think I have way more hours than this
Do you have a full complement of red weapons or only the ones you like running? Genuine question, because if it's the latter you'd probably be an anomaly. It's pretty common for people to want to grind for a full set of reds, which would make book runs on Legend the 'fastest' way to do so.
My mains and my bots too.
I got perfect reds playing Veteran back when it first became the highest rewarding difficulty. What changed since then? Just the odds of getting Emperor chests?
idk why you got downvoted for asking a simple question. From my understanding, the vaults you get from Legend and Cata give you a higher chance of getting a red weapon. The books give you a higher change of getting emperor vaults, which further boosts your chances and is why a lot of legend players will do full book runs.
People just don't like that reds drop from Veteran. I thought it was a great change. Made higher difficulties purely about the challenge.
Deeprock galactic is the same way it’s very weird
Absolutely. Haz 4 = lots sweaty toxic bossy tryhards. Haz 5 = mostly chill, bring whatever build you want, good players that just want to have fun.
I haven't had those experiences thankfully or not thankfully. I see a bit more sweaty whiners in haz 5
+1. You rarely see that sort of nonsense on cata. If you have all the loot you need, move up.
I feel like on cata people have played enough that they're comfortable with whatever. In lower difficulties I've had people refuse to start based on gear choices. I get it, swift bow isn't exactly the meta, but I like it sometimes, fuck you. When I play cata no one seems to care what I play.
Which is kinda funny because even in Cats I see plenty of people rocking off meta stuff just for variety, even though they can't get certain breakpoints with them that are met way easier in legend.
I've found cata to be straight up easier than 0 book legend too, assumedly this is because those who play cata are better, or atleast more chill, less prone to raging, more experienced, and there's no real benefit to playing cata other than it's a hugher difficulty, so cata doesn't lend it's playerbase to rage about red grinding inefficiency.
Don't know how others see it, but as a regular cata player that sometimes dabbles in Legend: I play for the challenge, so if there is a weaker player joining - even low level - I enjoy it as an additional challenge. As long as a player can contribute at least a little, they are fine in my book. Only exception was that one time when a level 15 player on legend managed to die two (!) times before we even met enemies on the new map. That one got kicked, but I bet he was trolling anyway.
Weird way to say you’re being carried, legend with 3 aggro magnets is definitely easier even with full books than cata
Crowbill gang rise up!
90% of the games I've played have been elf, changing weapons is a necessity. I like swiftbow on waystalker because her ult allows you to deal with armoured specials while the swiftbow mows down hordes at range. It's good. I don't like it on Handmaiden/shade because no ammo and no good way to deal with specials at range. Sometimes I just want to load into a game with Repeater crossbow + Greatsword on shade. Sometimes I want to play Sword and Hagbane Handmaiden Sometimes I want to run javelin as my melee weapon and do blockless runs like a masocist. Is game.
God, i am trying so badly to make shade with dual daggers + swiftbow work on cata, but the regen from crits (even with all crit increases) simply doesnt work, meanwhile with waystalker i can miss more than a third of my shots and still end up ammo positive most of the time, even without kurnous. The pain is real
Yeah, this is 100% relatable. I think a big chunk of why people dislike swiftbow and crossbow on elf is straight up ammo is impossible to sustain for anything more than 1 off headshots strictly on elites. At which point... why not just take the sniper option for the bow? A lot of the talent options aren't terribly helpful either, or are placed alongside really strong options for the career that you then need to choice to not have. Handmaiden's Quiver of Plenty (+40% ammo cap) is up against 15% health bonus and 30% block cost reduction, but fantastic choices. Bloodfletcher doesn't return enough bolts to be worth trading off Chain Killer or Focused Slaying. I really enjoy swiftbow on Waystalker because it's just not an issue, you can dump arrows downrange and kill an entire horde, ult once and then keep shooting, it's fun, and I think it's actually quite strong. On Waystalker, at least. But people have in their head "Elf without longbow = bad" Possible exceptions to this are Javelin and Moonbow, but honestly that depends on the person complaining. All are viable, I'm not so sure about hagbane for most uses but every other ranged weapon on Kerillian is strong.
I hate the people on cata, theyre all goobers that make me questions me own sanity before joining in on the kerillian feet sniffing ritual /s
A guy I've in my steam friend list have rename "no Engi" with the profil picture that match x) I play only cata twitch and yeah, even here people are a bit sick of all those engi that just delete any difficulty w/o effort.
Yeah I’m guilty of kicking the engis I’ll usually politely ask them to rejoin as another class first
Maybe, just maybe, people should ask if their teammates want to go for books? If noone wants to then by all means rush the mission but ask the host what he wants as he is, well, the host thus having the ultimate power over the party (and by that he can just disband If he feels like it, which is a di*k move nonetheless).
Its still hilarious to me that bad players cap out at legend.
Not really, cata is gated by a fairly expensive DLC
Is *that* what it is? Well, I did always say pay gates in gaming were a community quality filter. You get what you pay for, and free to play game communities show it.
Honestly, I've seen people complain about Elf, but other than that nothing. And even then, nobody kicks elf, just if they do something dumb its "typical elf"
I've had people complain I'm not doing enough and hogging heals as a handmaiden before, even when I'm hard carrying with infinite stagger and hand of shallya. I think the worst I have ever experienced I was in a tight space split away from the other half of the party babysitting an outcast engineer, who had been taking all the kills of the enemies I was staggering, it was seemingly a good synergy and I thought they understood what I was doing for them as a front line/backline team up. Suddenly there was a patrol in our way and hoard music just started, I took the initiative to rush and deal with the patrol before things got heated because I didn't think we could avoid the patrol at all, the engineer threw a point blank bomb and ate an overhead and died. I pretty well soloed the patrol in the fire that was still damaging me, on like 5 green health left I revived the dwarf and then tried to heal them with hand of shallya to clear their wound and get my health off just THP The moment I started using the medkit I took a bunch of MWP shots to the face and went down, it was only at this point I saw that the dwarf had been swearing at me in chat to get them up because they had more bombs to deal with the patrol and also blaming me for pulling the patrol. After I died they took my medkit and added "selfish elf keeping all the health" and used it on themselves. I respawned ahead and a Sienna came to get me up, but not before I got to spectate the idiot get mobbed with slave rats, they just held out the crank Minigun trying to shoot point blank until they died as well, didn't even try to switch to their melee or dodge once, just took it to the face. They couldn't do anything without my shield to stagger for them. When they respawned I typed in chat not to untie the team killer and we all 3 just walked past and the OE blew up in chat with slurs, however they didn't leave though and said we're idiots because they'll still get the rewards at the end, I waited until the very end of the level before I started a vote to kick. The OE swearing in chat again that they'd get me back for this, we all voted and the dwarf got booted after having waited for us to finish. I expected some steam messages but I never heard from them again. Amazing.
Oh man, tangent but that reminds me of a story playing WoW forever ago. Was playong woth a group of randoms to get through a dungeon, and you know it was forever ago as we actually played the dungeon and took a moment to check on everyone before big fights instead of sprinting through. But we had a big problem: Our tank, a paladin, just kept deciding to go AFK mid fight, repeatedly. They'd just suddenly stop pressing buttons altogether. Now, it was fine if they weren't amazing at tank, the 2 DPS players were at least medium armor, if they lost aggro a moment we wouldn't *immediately* die, but we still expect them to try to do their job! After wiping for the 3rd time vs a bunch of mooks right before the final boss as the Paladin said "Ready!" Pulled the group, and immediately stopped playing, we kicked them. Instead of queueing up again, we just went to face the final boss as a group of 3. It was tough, but we knew we didn't have a tank. Instead, us 2 DPS players very carefully managed our DPS to keep hitting them, but flipping aggro with just the right timing that neither one took too much damage, while the healer kept flipping targets with the aggro to catch us up on hp in the downtime, and we pulled it off in 1 try! We don't need no AFK tank, we have strategy!
That's actually hilarious that he pulled and then went afk, like what even. Why not just say "wait a moment before boss so I can sort whatever is distracting me and I can pay attention". I never played WoW but I've played some similar MMOs and I never had issues with people having to wait a moment for the group in dungeons, weren't many people rushing new content because they usually understand not everyone is acclimated yet. Only ever rushed the raids that had been out for a few years because everyone up to doing raids had it down pat by now and half the lobby could probably 2 man it due to the new level caps anyway. But yeah the tank is simultaneously the most helpful role and the least useful, you won't notice that the tank is doing its job when everything is going smoothly, only when you have to pick up the slack. It especially doesn't help the reputation of the tank that it doesn't really matter in most games anymore, especially modern games, even in many turn based games you can survive without even having a tank at all by just putting a bit more effort in your coordination and DPS. All of the above can be said about healers too, but at least most players will notice and thank you for healing the health they already lost, nobody thanks a tank for sharing or preventing the damage to you instead. It's why in games like V2 that lack dedicated healing (except maybe WP lmao) and focus on killing and DPS, you always get the noobs that don't understand the significance of classes like FK, IB and HM, play styles that don't really get kills unless pushed to their limits and will usually have the least kills in an efficient team, but their survivability and CC are bread and butter for smooth runs and clutching the less smooth moments. HM especially gets it bad because she's lumped in with all the elf hate, which honestly, go be an elf main for a bit and you'll experience way more toxicity from idiots that don't understand elf than you ever actually experience from elf players.
I did something similar in FFXIV. I was playing Machinist and our tank had been afk for a good portion of the dungeon. We were discussing if we should try to do the final boss without a tank or kick & que for a new tank when I realised I had been constantly drawing aggro from the tank from my sheer dps, even with their tank-stance up, before they went afk. So I decided I would tank the boss. I used my range advantage and Sprint to kite the boss and avoid getting hit since I was very squishy as a ranged dps. We managed to do it first try and was honestly very fun.
If you're ripping off a tank with their built in 10x multiplier, they're irredeemable.
Yeah true tbh they were using single-target abilities for groups.
See, irredeemable lmao
He's giving all of us OE lovers out there a bad name.
Honestly in the current meta I feel like OE is the new waystalker. All the noobs are flocking to it and relying on spam and passive abilities to keep themselves alive without actually learning to play.
Man as a support hand maiden player, playing with OE before it got super buffed was a blast. I held the lines while OE players rained chaos. Was a super fun and rewarding dynamic. Now where its just bombs and noticeably worse players piloting OE, it's just not fun anymore :(.
Yeah, I loved playing OE but now everybody hates him.
can you drop your infinite stagger build? 👀
Equip a shield, use push, repeat. That's pretty much all there is to it, but if you want to specifically build around only pushing, Footknight and Handmaiden are unmatched. I think Asari Alacrity is the only relevant perk on handmaiden? Her lvl 10 on the right. Pushing or blocking increase attack speed by 30% and power by 10%. Footknight has a few relevant perks, take anything that mentions stagger power or base power as it will raise your push stagger power too. Don't miss his lvl 10 perk that increases stagger by 35%. Otherwise try and get +2 stamina and +30% push/ block on your weapons for ease of use and huge crowd control. It's not essential to have +2 stamina as handmaiden has passive stamina regen and Footknight can also become a stager machine using the mace and shield heavy combo, constantly spamming the attack where you "punch" with the shield, as it doesn't consume stamina and more consistently staggers Chaos Warriors than regular pushing. +10% power vs Armoured can help against Storm Vermin and chaos warriors but it's not necessary for SV on any difficulty lower than Cataclysm. Chaos Warriors it does help on though. If you take Opportunist trait on your shield you can also push enemies out of overheads, but it can be inconsistent and I wouldn't rely on it as a life saver. Occasionally it'll work on a boss as footknight with the +30% stagger power too lol. Warrior Priest also has the LvL 25 perks, prayer of vengeance +25% power vs monsters, or prayer of vengeance +25% stagger. Combo this with Footknights +30% stagger and you can abuse almost any enemies with just pushing if you are going to go all in one break points. It's actually not a bad option for if you are trying to use AI bots and struggling on higher difficulty is to play as a handmaiden who has good survivability and move tec, then bring a FK and WP bot to just buff you into an unstoppable force. Although you'll move through levels slower due to low damage output, on legend you can relatively effectively push around a chaos spawn with the right build and weapon properties, although I wouldn't try relying on pushing a boss in Cataclysm.
There was a player in the AU/NZ region who would *always* kick elves whenever he was hosting. I still remember the first time I joined a game he was hosting. He said over voice chat that either I agreed to help vote kick any elves or he would end the lobby. I found another game. That was his MO for at least two years. It was especially weird since I had played with him when he wasn't host and he never mentioned elves then. But when he was host, it didn't matter if you'd played with him (or carried him) before, if you were an elf you were out. Haven't seen him for a long time now. I can only imagine how he must have felt if he was still playing when Sister of the Thorn released. Maybe that made him leave.
Haha that's right. Everything is the elf's fault. I play elf & I STILL blame the elf 🤣
I for one am slightly disappointed when the slayer in the team doesn't GRIMNIR and jump into a patrol
Launching into the middle of a horde and coming out (mostly) unharmed is the most fun you can have as slayer and zealot
Yeah same, I play a lotta kruber and I never back away from a patrol especially if we have a slayer, even low-key shame them into being brave. Normally I don’t have a preference on patrol on other characters but grail knight and slayer hiding from rats just seems wrong. For grimnir and the lady and go slap some rats and chaos worshippers around.
I’ve played hundreds of hours of slayer and never been kicked for it.
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Never kicked a slayer or been kicked as a slayer, although I don’t play him much. Maybe they were just crashing. There has been a lot of crashes lately.
I've never seen that & my 2nd main is Slayer 🤣 Actually, for the past 5 months, I've been exclusively playing Slayer. Like one of our fellow members here said: if you have all red gear & are confident about being able to survive then just move to Cata. Btw what region are you in ?
You don't even need all red gear. Having red charms and such is probably a good idea but I've been running cata for ages with some weapons still orange.
Agreed. I remember back in the day, I spent a lot of time on Champion learning the mechanics as, with Vermintide 2, there is more than meets the eye. I mean I came into this thinking it was a hack n slash lol I only moved to Legend when I could easily survive on Champion. Then Cata & above is a whole other story for another day haha
How do you know that people are leaving because of you? Getting kicked is rare, I only see it happen with griefers.
No
I've had a couple of those giga-tryhards that don't actually know the game very well try to tell me to change off slayer before because "everyone needs a ranged weapon for cata" which I thought was pretty funny. But otherwise I haven't seen any disrespect towards slayer. Often teams will hop on the melee goon stack with grail and priest when they see one which is always a good time.
If I saw someone try to tell another player that, I would immediate switch to GK/WP lol
"Total War Warhammer 3" just released an expansion with some focus on Slayers, so maybe a bunch of newer players saw that and wanted to try out Slayer and havn't quite learned it yet, so the 'elite' players are having a bad time?
Perhaps the lack of a firearm, no dlc ult/skills and no shield?
Strange criteria, I guess smacking rats hard isn't good enough for some weirdos smh.
No utility but he's got the *bonk*
But Slayer has a ranged weapon.
I don't kick slayers, I Only do that when i witness them doing stupid shit like going foreward without the group and then getting pinned by a special. Although this goes for all classes who don't do proper teamwork especially when I'm playing legend or higher
Only time I’ve kicked a slayer was when he would join in the match, use his jump to glitch through half the map, die, and then aggro half the map onto our team and wipe us.
Just OE.
Depends on the region you play in. I only get kicked from the Keep before the mission starts so they might be waiting for friends (or 2 random CWs after joining late but idk why kicked me as GK and WP). Can't imagine Slayers being hated so much they get kicked for no reason. You have OE for that. Or you might be the problem as you get downed a lot or use too many heals/potions/bombs or don't help your teammates without knowing it. Not saying this is 100% the case but it might be.
I only kick people for toxic behaviour or noobmaxxing while refusing to accept advice. I have fun with good slayers on my team. As WP I ult them constantly and enjoy the show.
I'm happy if a slayer joins. Zero chance of an engineer joining
From my experience the two most degenerate types of players are Slayers & Zealots. I have over 2000 hours and of all my games the vast majority of times I notice problematic behaviour are from Slayers and Zealots. I generally remove them if they start doing things that put the rest of team/run in jeopardy. This could be purposefully pulling a patrol on teammates I KNOW are not up for it, or slayers skipping ahead not letting me get the bots to pick up books (completely inconsiderate behaviour). I personally don't care, I have all the items I want and have clutched out solo more times than I can count, but I will not subject other teammates that crap. Sometimes even I am not in the mood to babysit these jokers. Slayer in particular is difficult to play in high difficulties so more than the average player running them is gonna perform like ass. They have a bad reputation as a result and lobbies that are playing seriously or been struggling to complete something will likely dump them immediately. I have yet to come across a good slayer ingame (whether it be skill or good behaviour). Tonnes of zealots are nothing more than whiny complainers who mistake power for skill #notall. As to the elf, the occurrence of rushers is so rare in my games it is not really worthy of mention. I feel like the meme on this has far outweighed the reality. Out of the times they rush ahead, as soon as something dangerous spawns they run straight back to the team like the cowards they know they are deep down inside. Slayers will just suicide into it.
What platform are you on? Console players reported lots of crashes lately especially as client. Crashes can look a lot like getting kicked. Might be bad luck with jerks or maybe your name is incredibly offensive. Anyway, no, I rarely see kicks either. I mostly host now and the only time I'll kick is for very underleveled ppl joining high difficulty modes or people being toxic to teammates/using slurs and then doubling down when asked to stop.
Nah, I play Slayer in Legend all the time and can't say I've been treated like that. Maybe people assume you're OE, or it's just highly coincidental?
slayer is actually pretty good, they're just harder to play. Kicking slayer is just cope, and presumably it's from the types of players that main champ/legend that run 20 miles ahead of the group without understanding actual pacing then insta-die and ragequit. I play a decent amount of slayer, usually on cata, and if anyone says anything about it it's usually along the lines of "oh thank god it isn't an outcast engi" lol
I’ve seen people throw shade at Slayers because they “typically run ahead and chase circles” or will “aggro a patrol to show off” etc etc. Obvs not all slayers, but not all elf mains and yet they all get painted with the same brush 🙃 So that could be why? Also, if it’s a class you’re not familiar with and needing to be “carried” more, maybe that’s a reason? Not justifying the behaviours at all. I think the quick play community can be extremely toxic and I’m thankful I have a full squad of friends that I’ve been able to clock most of my 500 odd hours with.
I played a match today with a run-ahead slayer who pretty much used his ability off-cooldown everytime, rushing ahead and killing everything. He also went down and almost died, requiring a pretty risky play by me to save him which made my slower players fight off a horde by themselves behind, and have no other rats to fight otherwise. All this on champion just felt bad to play with, as it's kinda where the game gets harder and there's a lot of babysitting I couldn't do because this full-red slayer couldn't beat the patrol he aggro'd solo, you know? So, for the sake of everyone else on that team, I made sure he wasn't with us next match. Of course, he had played through half the match before I realized he's an issue, so I let him play it out at that point.
This sounds very ominous. Did you take him behind a shed?
Relations after parting of the waves have been tense, I had to make a judgment call and do what's best for the greater whole. :)
That's pretty poor show in general but on champion? Bruh. Like if they were going to do those behaviours, at least have the skill level to hold their own at the easy difficulties lol.
I've never seen that back in the day but I mostly play Darktide ever since it came out.
First time hearing this, but that's because I host myself 99% of the time huh. I was only kicking OE when he was op af, don't know if he's balanced enough rn or not.
I rarely had incredible slayers imho, most I've had were jumping in chaos patrols and insta downed. It's not a rule of thumbs, and I'm not going to kick people preemptively, but I imagine some would.
There's not a single class that cant true solo the game on cata you should never kick someone based on their class or build
Fuck those rat lovers. You're good bro. Come play with us :)
I do cuz i have only bad experience with slayer players
Coming from the milf that mains OE, this isn’t surprising.
for your info i mained OE long ago before he became magnet for noobs... and no, i dont play with trollhammer and bomb build on him for ur info...