That Toy Story 2 story is mostly a myth. That version of the movie was pre-Woodys Round Up anyway, so they started over regardless.
> But there was another twist. After all the efforts to save Toy Story 2, most of the original version of the film ended up being chucked out anyway. Bosses didn’t think the movie was good enough and it was remade.
> “Effectively all animation was tossed,” said Jacob in the interview. “Effectively, all layout was tossed. So all camera work would start from scratch. Lighting was in the film a little bit, but that was tossed as well. We had to build new characters.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/lightyear-toy-story-2-deleted-b2017238.html
I find it hard to believe that almost none of the assets were reused even if the existing cut was tossed. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done for cgi cartoons before you actually start animating it for the actual plot. This is how hotel Transylvania was able to be in development for so long before they got genndy to take over as a director.
So even if the cut she saved was tossed along with most of the story at the time, a lot of work that was kept for the final cut had to have been saved in her back up. Or at least a lot of the work done for the final cut was based on work that was in that back up which would have otherwise needed to have been redone.
There’s also no telling if they didn’t have the back up if they would have had all the animators redo that version of the movie anyways before they decided to cut it.
It wasn’t mostly a myth. It happened. It’s just not exactly how people might assumed it happened.
She didn't have an "entire backup of the movie" like people claim. That would've been dozens of hard drives back then. She had a lot of assets - - yes, but not "the entire movie". What she had was more akin to a starter kit to get them going again.
I suppose it makes sense. It's basically an image file. Lots of layers and stuff, but still at its base an image.
Makes it even less excusable to not back up though. Like come on, at least save a copy to Onedrive or something!
It could just be that the rigging and all that is just really easy to compress, though I suppose vtubers generally share models when they collaborate since that would reduce how much information needs to be shared during the stream itself.
But yeah definitely backup your money makers.
No, collaborations don't require model sharing at all (and that would be a pretty bad idea tbh)
Before VtubeStudio added a DLC for collab rooms, people mostly used OBS.Ninja/VDO.Ninja to share an OBS source
(Or reactive Fujis)
>Makes it even less excusable to not back up though. Like come on, at least save a copy to Onedrive or something!
As she said it, she thought that she had backup system up, just didn't realize it wasn't backing that part up.
> As she said it, she thought that she had backup system up, just didn't realize it wasn't backing that part up.
USB drives are great for this. Just keep a bowl of them around for random crap. If you ever go to a trade convention they hand them out like candy.
Just be sure to double or triple back it up because every few companies hand out flash drives that are more unreliable than napkin notes floating in water
In times of 4K textures and 60fps videos and lossless audio and stuff, we severely overestimate the sizes of things, specially of data/code.
You can have _a lot_ of information in 18 MB.
The model file size is almost all just the texture atlas. The highest model size I've ever made so far is 34 mb and that was with multiple outfit toggles/options, my own model is only \~19 mb.
Ya the model itself is just math. Math is tiny.
[You can literally store a 3D model on a t-shirt](https://apparel.ungovernable.art/listing/liberator). T-shirts aren't known for their storage capacity.
Nah, there's a good chance the data is actually still there if there's a decent amount of free space on the drive. A tool like Testdisk might be able to recover the data. No guarantees of course.
She said overwritten, not just deleted. The space those files occupied may have been taken by another files. At that point, you can't recover it anymore.
The files have passed on! These files are no more! They havw ceased to be! They've expired and gone to meet their maker! Bereft of data, they rest in peace! Their data processes are now history! They're off the twig! They've kicked the bucket, They shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THESE ARE EX-FILES!!
Nah, they're just pining for the fjords.
Serious talk though, oh my god I'm glad she was able to get the files back. Everyone backup your important data, in multiple locations, today.
Unless she ran a deep clean utility deleted rarely means gone. Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data. Thats why when donating computers or disposing of ewaste you typically remove and physically destroy old HDDs and SSDs.
>Unless she ran a deep clean utility deleted rarely means gone. Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data.
>Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data.
Quick formatting in fact is one of the best cases for data recovery, as it doesn't touch the data sectors at all usually. It's the filesystem equivalent of deleting a shortcut, but not the actual file.
Deleting something and then writing new data, that's a much worse case. If you ever find yourself having deleted something that you really shouldn't have, just hard power down the machine immediately. Do not download data recovery software on the same machine, as in fact downloading it could overwrite the data you care about.
Take the disk out and make a bitwise copy of it, pref using a linux box as windows is terrible at opening disks without immediately writing stuff to them. Now you have a copy, you can look through it and use data recovery software on it.
And I assume she's already had someone check the drive with such a tool since she specifically said she deleted the files and that they were overwritten.
With how SSD's do wear leveling, having a bunch of free space on the drive does not mean that your data is still likely safe even if you delete it.
More specifically, after deletion a TRIM command is sent to the drive telling it those blocks are now free. Many drives respond by marking them as empty and returning zeros on future reads (RZAT - deterministic read zeros after trim). There's no practical recovery from this.
Still worth a try, of course, but don't expect HDD behaviour from SSDs.
You assume that she already took the drive to a data recovery specialist? Or did she more likely just assume that it was overwritten without knowing how computers work?
No, you misunderstand. Them running that software does not overwrite the information.
Also, they already said someone else had a copy of the most important things, so this is all moot. Go away.
You misunderstood me. I didn't say running the software overwrote the information im saying the software detected that the data was corrupted or overwritten.
it sounds like you're the one who doesn't know how computers work
>first of all: she didn't immediately know it was deleted, it was a few hours until she realized that because she was trying to move it to a new folder but the files didn't copy for whatever reason, which means the drive was operating and writing data
>second: SSDs spread their data around intentionally to reduce wear on the drive, it doesn't put things into empty space then start going into space that can be overwritten like you seem to assume
>third: losing even a couple bytes of data can render a file unrecoverable except by using obscenely expensive specialists
so she deletes the files by accident (and since I probably need to explain this as well, a large enough file doesn't go to the recycle bin, it gets deleted and marked for overwrite immediately), her computer keeps running and writing all sorts of temp data that is being written in whatever random part of the SSD the computer decides to put it in including that data now marked for overwrite, and once enough bytes of the files are overwritten by this process the file is gone even if a majority of its bytes are still intact unless she wants to spend thousands of dollars I'm gonna bet a random indie vtuber probably doesn't have.
The only time I heard someone "accidentally delete something big/important" is using Linux. Mostly about database. Not sure how it happens in other operating system.
Guys guys!!
UPDATE
https://twitter.com/HexaVT/status/1786299795033723124?t=nzS7eVBtfoERQR3HeH9aRQ&s=19
Her friend had a copy, I don't know if she managed to recover everything, but probably a notable portion
"New" lesson for vtuber folks: Your Email account in Google comes with a complimentary storage space - use it.
Mega comes up and comes down but you only have to check in on it once and a while to let the system know you're alive. That's space right there.
Torrent/magnets are a thing, just get friends to see it for you once in awhile
Cloud storage is a thing.
Physical thumb drives/sd card are a thing. And they're cheap.
You'd think it'd be common sense, but common sense ain't common these days, so.
This is why I built a 24TB NAS with 2 drive redundancy. That NAS serves as just an archive and backup of my desktop PC files, and all of my work stuff involving content creation or game development all are in Dropbox or a version control repo like bitbucket. A lot of my files get mirrored to my laptop from time to time to work on the go. At least three local copies (one or two sometimes slightly out of date), one cloud copy.
I've never had a drive failure, but I have had a car break-in where three consecutive cars got hit, and my laptop in my covered back trunk got stolen. The flashdrive in the laptop had my only copy of software I was developing, and since then, never again. Can never have too much redundancy.
I spent a couple months trying to learn and plan a build from the ground up, and eventually just got a Synology 8-drive NAS. If you're looking for a different solution, r/DataHoarder or r/HomeNAS might be of help.
There are various approaches. You can do something enterprise level with associated costs. You can do something on a budget that requires quite a bit of technical knowledge. Or you can buy "NAS in a box" solutions that cost more, are less performant, but are easy to setup even if you are unfamiliar with linux and all the technical stuff.
Personally I went with a budget version of the latter. I bought a Synology 2-bay diskless NAS. Stuck 2x [12TB Refurbished Enterprise HDDs](https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AHDD) and had a full 12TB RAID mirrored setup for $300-350, less than the annual cost of some cloud plans. It's not ideal but I was on a super budget. I offset the unreliability of the refurbished drives by running them in RAID 1 mirrored setup. Finally, I also got to remember to only save stuff in folders I set to sync to the NAS for the NAS to be effective (or work exclusively on the NAS, but then it is no longer a "backup").
Later on I bought an external HDD, attached it to a family member's router that had auto-FTP software, and later had the NAS sync itself with the remote external HDD. This added a 2nd physical location to my backup plan, which is usually recommended. Again external HDD to a router is not ideal, but I am on a budget. Maybe when I have more money I can build a 2nd real NAS, then use my OG scuff setup as the offsite backup.
I also have a Microsoft 365 acct with 1TB cloud, as well as a 1TB external SSD I manually sync the really important stuff too. The latter solution not being constantly connected to the PC is important to protect you from ransomware. I got randomwared once and it also tried attacking my network drives. OneDrive is thankfully smart about detecting randsomware and not syncing it, I actually got warned by OneDrive that one synced PC was being encrypted and it had a one-button undo for the randsomwared files.
Thank for the advice. Yea i kinda just cobbled together some old parts I had and bought some new hdds. Hardware wise, Im pretty comfortable, but I get a bit more nervous when it comes to set up and RAID and all that jazz.
Same I had a cobbled together file server built with an old office Dell I got for free out of an ewaste bin and whatever random HDDs that were on sale at the time, with some scuffed non-redundant Microsoft Storage Paces Raid-0 like setup. It was really bad, when that PC got randsomwared and I almost lost everything (I did loose all my anime/movies/music) was when I made my scuff Synology NAS setup I described above.
When I have more money and maybe more knowledgeable with the software after tinkering with my current NAS I might build my own more powerful one, completely from scratch, but Synology was a good entry point for me as a newbie who just got jumpscared and almost lost everything.
I have backblaze + google drive and it works well enough for everyone
Small stuff like models are on google drive (as well as backblaze ofc) and for big stuff like vods they are on youtube (without audio separated), on my computer, and on backblaze so that is enough safety net for me
The sad part is denchi added monthly popup windows in vtube studio for people to backup their stuff and this still happens but hopefully they will start backing up stuff now
Yeah, the only reason I have the entire NAS is because I plan to back up ALL of my personal files on it. I even have two massive drives that I'll be using for snapshots/version control of the 24TB RAID setup. It's extremely overkill if the goal is to just back up Vtubing assets.
At least three copies in at least two physical locations. Additional cloud mirror for the really important stuff.
My personal backup strategy is auto sync for important folders on NAS. The NAS is 2 disks mirrored in Raid 1. The NAS's important folder is then synced to an external HDD attached to a router at a family member's house. I also have 1TB of Microsoft OneDrive and do manual backups to a 1TB external SSD.
It's not ideal, my NAS uses refurbed ex-datacenter 12TB drives in RAID 1 with a lot of hours on them, my movies and music aren't backed up offsite - just the important stuff, the offsite backup is just an external HDD but I was on a budget, I still have to remember to mark folder or only save important stuff to synced folders, but I am happy with it for how little I spent on the setup ($300) and it was the bare minimum I could do to have some level of redundancy I was happy with after loosing major data previously.
Once you start going that route, you also realize that you will also need to "checkpoint" your backups and do test restores.
You could accidentally wipe your backup state because you backed up a bad state, which checkpointing will solve.
Your backup system may be corrupted, which testing restores will catch before you really need it.
You can also save everything but the model itself on postimages.org, file storage places like to prune unused accounts every now and then so *whatever can get thrown in image hosts* make sure you do that too!
I have stuff still there going back to when it was postimg.cc 12 years ago, had a space of about 5 years where I didn't even touch it.
Dropbox is nice if you are working on projects with multiple contributors too, you can set it to allow other people to upload, such as if you are getting accessories for a model or don't want to use just email for receiving chat stickers, and both parties can edit things on the fly. Lots of puny 10 person game studios use it.
I use Backblaze and really like it. It periodically crawls through your harddrive and backs up all the files to their servers. All you have to do is (pay), install, and you can forget about it until you need it.
And once you're making a living vtubing, get a safe deposit box.
You know what everyone is using safe deposit boxes for in 2024? Tapes and hard drives. Nobody's storing jewelry anymore, it's all off-site backups.
vtube studio literally has a HUGE WARNING to backup your models files on cloud storage and other sites... putting all important files into one folder isn't, "safely backing up."
I permanently deleted my friend's thesis project on my laptop since I thought he has backed it up which turns out he did not, I don't remember what application I used but I got it back without any files missing. She probably can do it if it hasn't been too long since it was deleted
If she just used recycle bin she could get stuff back I did it by accident for holiday pictures and recovered a lot of them years later. Then again she said it was all overwritten
Thing is, once you "delete" something it isn't immediately Gone gone.
Data basically lives on your harddisk at a certain address, and normal deletion just makes it so that the operating system "forgets" that anyone lives there and, if necessary, lets new data live there in the future. However, technically speaking, the old data is still there, it just seems like a blank space to the operating system.
(This is because performance-wise, it makes no sense to physically delete something off the disk instead of just pretending it isn't there, both actions have the same result but physical deletion takes much more work and effort than just forgetting/pretending.)
Unless this was like some out-of-the-ordinary extremely thorough deletion, it's still possible to save (at least some of) the data. So yeah, not sure what exactly she means by "overwritten" but usually it does NOT mean "new data now lives there" so she should definitely look into recovery software/services and the like.
This is not true at all. The process to delete data between hard drives and SSDs are similar.
It is inefficient for a system to *actually* delete data on a drive, both for hard drives and SSDs. The OS will just mark the data as available to overwrite, which is why the Vtuber said it was overwritten. As long as new data has not overwritten the old data, it will still be there.
Not really true. SSDs sifll use the same file allocation process as disks just what they point to is a bit different. In both cases they "delete" files just by removing them from the index and marking that space as available. It's actually even less desirable for SSDs to deliberately blank the space the files were on unless physical data security is an issue because every individual memory cell has a life span of how many writes it can tolerate (though these days in practice that's longer than most consumer level devices will ever see)
SSD's handle data deletion very differently and it's likely actually deleted if its been a little while since deletion. Also she said it was overwritten, so if that's the case you have practically no hope of recovery.
I don't think they were bitching, they were just trying to help, but it was stuff she already tried and it's understandable she wasn't in emotional state to hear such stuff
I feel like there has to be *some* way for her to recover the assets and she’s just panicking currently.
If not though that’s a bummer and the actual nightmare I’m sure many indies have.
Even if you have a back up make sure you have a back up of it. Even more so when it's something you can't just download or remake and you depend on it for income
And this is why I have my important folders set up to back up to the cloud.
And I create a full backup of my entire computer to a hard drive once every month or so.
I'm glad she got it back, but hopefully this acts as a lesson for a lot of people on why it's so important to get your computer backed up.
Idk im a very skeptical person but how the heck did you delete an entire file by accident? Especially a very important one where it contains every single aspect of your job ?
Fun fact, Windows has tools that you can use so files can't be deleted or can be recovered even if you delete them. You have to set this up, but it may be a good idea.
Or you know, BACK UP YOUR DATA.
She should go get her drive recovered.
Even if she did 'delete' everything, the files should still exist - as far as the drive's concerned, the only thing that's been overwritten is the registry data which has altered the designation from previously occupied sectors from used to re-writable. The only way it's gone-gone is if the drive's been sanitized.
Assuming she hasn't done anything too hasty, a good portion if not all of the data should still be recoverable. Even if it has been overwritten, a good forensics recovery tech can read the bias and recover data that way.
The last time I looked into professional data recovery, the cost was in the 2000-3000 USD range 5-6 years ago. If it's still around that price, a lot of people can't afford it.
A reminder for anyone, always have backups and backups of backups for "mission critical" data. The more the better, many would go so far as to say just having an extra copy somewhere isn't enough redundancy.
There's multiple worst case hypothetical scenarios to consider.
The storage device dies, which makes data recovery unfeasible outside of sending it to a specialist.
A second copy on the same computer on a second storage device can be lost if the computer experiences a catastrophic power event (rare) such as the PSU taking out multiple components.
A copy on another storage device (external drive), these can get lost or accidentally deleted.
A copy on a NAS with sufficient disk parity (the ability to lose 1 or more storage devices in a RAID array and continue operating). This is the preferred way to have a copy of data stored locally, but not cost effective nor easy for most people. You also risk losing the copy in the event of a fire or other natural disaster or from faulty wiring in the residence and suffering from a lightning strike and that sort of thing.
An easy (and required) option is off-site backups, simply using a cloud storage solution. In fact use more than 1 from 2 different companies that run different CDNs. This can easily be a free option too.
The general rule is to maintain 3 copies, with 1 being off-site. You run into issues with syncing your data, but for assets that aren't frequently updated it can be easier to handle.
Honestly, please backup! The dirt simplest options are OneDrive, Dropbox or gdrive. Just work out that folder in future. I recommend going paid just for the extended file history. Which means if you make changes and overwrite you can roll back to a past version you did like.
What she can do is do a restore back up to a system previus date like a 1 or 2 months ago, she will lost whatever extra she did in that time but she will recover some of the stuff she lost
[Windows 10 Restore](https://youtu.be/ZrEfzttnvR0?si=3bcgdfum6Ksd7bmj)
[Windows 11](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgBj6QGi-c0)
I feel ya.
I was crashed a while back a while in Vrchat.
the gpu crasher fried my PC and I lost all world design assets,
all my model data, my unity tools... and most importantly...
80 gigs of recorded video, voice recordings and MIDI samples.
access to my entire virtual studio was lost.....
soul-wrenching really. good luck on recovery.
that was two years ago.... OwO.
Damn.
Keep backups people.. And CHECK your backups. In the tech world we have a saying "if you haven't verified your backups can restore successfully, then you don't have a backup".
Also keep at least 2 backups. 1) on a local drive and 2) on an off site archive. Get a service like backblaze
How do you accidentally perma-delete something? Afaik most OS have a bunch of processes to prevent that from happening. I get accidentally deleting something and it being sent to recycle bin where you can still recover it. But perma? There’s like a whole process you have to do for that and then the OS even asks you if you’re sure multiple times.
Oh God, that's just... Brutal. At least she recovered the model, it could've been much worse. That's punishing. Always back your important stuff up, guys. And then back THAT up, too. It's better to have old redundancies than to lose everything because of a mistake or a harddrive error or something else.
I did this once when half asleep with the folder that held 1000 hours of homebrew work for a dnd campaign. I'm so glad she was able to get at least some of it back.
The most basic system you can set up is file history. It's part of windows and easy to enable.
The second layer you can add is an external copy to a hard drive.
Third layer is to a NAS of sorts.
Fourth layer is cloud based like google drive or onedrive.
First thing when you realise you deleted something you should not have - disable drive, so that windows dont overwrite data, and then use professional data extraction services.
Can recover almost anything, Because deleting does not turn 1 with 0 on the drive - just deletes the access thru other memory sector
Or in situation like this, I highly suggest to get a file recovery software.
Its actually kinda magical since that software can actually get sertain files back, but today's Zoomers isnt too Text Savvy. The reason I brought this up, is because in the past I accidentally deleted my photos in a camera I owned, and somehow I was able to recover some of the photos though a software.
There are alot of free software out there, and please always get a file recover as soon as possible if a file is lost.
(I know people will ignore it, so whatever lol)
Windows machines have the ability to recover deleted files without too much difficulty using the Windows File Recovery application. If you know what you're doing in command prompt and are fast enough, you don't even need that.
On Linux, you can install Foremost and recover the entire directory with a single command.
Not sure about Apple, but the last time I heard about it, you were just fucked. Then again, this was fifteen years ago, and maybe things have changed since then.
https://preview.redd.it/aj4ismro26yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d349e12ed7bd29236450954f4435c36e159fff5c
It seems another VTuber (Aruru Rosario) had her model saved. I think her model being lost was her main concern, so it’s good she at least was able to recover it.
Damn, that SUCKS. Reminds me of when I was backing up my harddrive FILLED with memes, books, movies, obscure songs I found and liked, I had since 2015. During the night, the hdd gave out and I lost everything.
how can someone be so dumb in todays day especially if their job is using a computer? like for real. there are so many backup and safeguards and second chances to make sure. crazy incompetency if you actually manage to delete an entire folder with your livelihood in it and for so long that its unrecoverable.
Follow up 2: https://preview.redd.it/y7n3sjbg16yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=712a39fa1eb44f981a8c85ff7f1808a39c4b71a9
toy story 2 all over again. nice.
That Toy Story 2 story is mostly a myth. That version of the movie was pre-Woodys Round Up anyway, so they started over regardless. > But there was another twist. After all the efforts to save Toy Story 2, most of the original version of the film ended up being chucked out anyway. Bosses didn’t think the movie was good enough and it was remade. > “Effectively all animation was tossed,” said Jacob in the interview. “Effectively, all layout was tossed. So all camera work would start from scratch. Lighting was in the film a little bit, but that was tossed as well. We had to build new characters. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/lightyear-toy-story-2-deleted-b2017238.html
til
I find it hard to believe that almost none of the assets were reused even if the existing cut was tossed. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done for cgi cartoons before you actually start animating it for the actual plot. This is how hotel Transylvania was able to be in development for so long before they got genndy to take over as a director. So even if the cut she saved was tossed along with most of the story at the time, a lot of work that was kept for the final cut had to have been saved in her back up. Or at least a lot of the work done for the final cut was based on work that was in that back up which would have otherwise needed to have been redone. There’s also no telling if they didn’t have the back up if they would have had all the animators redo that version of the movie anyways before they decided to cut it. It wasn’t mostly a myth. It happened. It’s just not exactly how people might assumed it happened.
She didn't have an "entire backup of the movie" like people claim. That would've been dozens of hard drives back then. She had a lot of assets - - yes, but not "the entire movie". What she had was more akin to a starter kit to get them going again.
Yeah that story never sat right with me. Like the whole ass full theatrical resolution movie was on one disc back in the 2000s? Bullshit
That screenshot says the file was 18 MB. Are vtuber models just that small?
It looks like it's packed file, so should be bigger after unpacking.
I suppose it makes sense. It's basically an image file. Lots of layers and stuff, but still at its base an image. Makes it even less excusable to not back up though. Like come on, at least save a copy to Onedrive or something!
It could just be that the rigging and all that is just really easy to compress, though I suppose vtubers generally share models when they collaborate since that would reduce how much information needs to be shared during the stream itself. But yeah definitely backup your money makers.
No, collaborations don't require model sharing at all (and that would be a pretty bad idea tbh) Before VtubeStudio added a DLC for collab rooms, people mostly used OBS.Ninja/VDO.Ninja to share an OBS source (Or reactive Fujis)
>Makes it even less excusable to not back up though. Like come on, at least save a copy to Onedrive or something! As she said it, she thought that she had backup system up, just didn't realize it wasn't backing that part up.
Frankly speaking it is a problem people run into a lot. That is not regularly checking if their backup works (or even exists).
> As she said it, she thought that she had backup system up, just didn't realize it wasn't backing that part up. USB drives are great for this. Just keep a bowl of them around for random crap. If you ever go to a trade convention they hand them out like candy.
Just be sure to double or triple back it up because every few companies hand out flash drives that are more unreliable than napkin notes floating in water
In times of 4K textures and 60fps videos and lossless audio and stuff, we severely overestimate the sizes of things, specially of data/code. You can have _a lot_ of information in 18 MB.
The model file size is almost all just the texture atlas. The highest model size I've ever made so far is 34 mb and that was with multiple outfit toggles/options, my own model is only \~19 mb.
Ya the model itself is just math. Math is tiny. [You can literally store a 3D model on a t-shirt](https://apparel.ungovernable.art/listing/liberator). T-shirts aren't known for their storage capacity.
Looks like a .rar file so probably not
It's a rar file so it's compressed.
I'm amazed it's that small, really. But also baffled.. if it's that small, it's more ridiculous not to backup them on the cloud.
That's what I'm thinking. Like if it's so small you can save it on free google drive, or heck just any USB.
That's awesome!
In sickness and in health, indeed. Actual couple goals./s In all seriousness, that's so great to hear.
BACKUPS SAVED THE DAY AGAIN
oh gosh yay!!! <3
So, Aruru is a Chad. 🥳
That’s Good to hear
idk how you accidently delete the whole folder but it can be still recovered even if it was "permantly deleted" just send it to a recovery facility
With her saying it's been overwritten, I assume she's already had someone check the drive.
Nah, there's a good chance the data is actually still there if there's a decent amount of free space on the drive. A tool like Testdisk might be able to recover the data. No guarantees of course.
She said overwritten, not just deleted. The space those files occupied may have been taken by another files. At that point, you can't recover it anymore.
The files have passed on! These files are no more! They havw ceased to be! They've expired and gone to meet their maker! Bereft of data, they rest in peace! Their data processes are now history! They're off the twig! They've kicked the bucket, They shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THESE ARE EX-FILES!!
Nah, they're just pining for the fjords. Serious talk though, oh my god I'm glad she was able to get the files back. Everyone backup your important data, in multiple locations, today.
There's no way it was overwritten that quickly, that is not how computers work *unless you deliberately overwrite it immediately with full intention*.
Unless she ran a deep clean utility deleted rarely means gone. Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data. Thats why when donating computers or disposing of ewaste you typically remove and physically destroy old HDDs and SSDs.
>Unless she ran a deep clean utility deleted rarely means gone. Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data. >Even quick formatting a drive still leaves recoverable data. Quick formatting in fact is one of the best cases for data recovery, as it doesn't touch the data sectors at all usually. It's the filesystem equivalent of deleting a shortcut, but not the actual file. Deleting something and then writing new data, that's a much worse case. If you ever find yourself having deleted something that you really shouldn't have, just hard power down the machine immediately. Do not download data recovery software on the same machine, as in fact downloading it could overwrite the data you care about. Take the disk out and make a bitwise copy of it, pref using a linux box as windows is terrible at opening disks without immediately writing stuff to them. Now you have a copy, you can look through it and use data recovery software on it.
what did she do, just randomly delete everything to make space for injustice 2?
And I assume she's already had someone check the drive with such a tool since she specifically said she deleted the files and that they were overwritten. With how SSD's do wear leveling, having a bunch of free space on the drive does not mean that your data is still likely safe even if you delete it.
More specifically, after deletion a TRIM command is sent to the drive telling it those blocks are now free. Many drives respond by marking them as empty and returning zeros on future reads (RZAT - deterministic read zeros after trim). There's no practical recovery from this. Still worth a try, of course, but don't expect HDD behaviour from SSDs.
You assume that she already took the drive to a data recovery specialist? Or did she more likely just assume that it was overwritten without knowing how computers work?
She said she tried some data recovery software
And?
They said the data is overwritten or corrupted
No, you misunderstand. Them running that software does not overwrite the information. Also, they already said someone else had a copy of the most important things, so this is all moot. Go away.
You misunderstood me. I didn't say running the software overwrote the information im saying the software detected that the data was corrupted or overwritten.
it sounds like you're the one who doesn't know how computers work >first of all: she didn't immediately know it was deleted, it was a few hours until she realized that because she was trying to move it to a new folder but the files didn't copy for whatever reason, which means the drive was operating and writing data >second: SSDs spread their data around intentionally to reduce wear on the drive, it doesn't put things into empty space then start going into space that can be overwritten like you seem to assume >third: losing even a couple bytes of data can render a file unrecoverable except by using obscenely expensive specialists so she deletes the files by accident (and since I probably need to explain this as well, a large enough file doesn't go to the recycle bin, it gets deleted and marked for overwrite immediately), her computer keeps running and writing all sorts of temp data that is being written in whatever random part of the SSD the computer decides to put it in including that data now marked for overwrite, and once enough bytes of the files are overwritten by this process the file is gone even if a majority of its bytes are still intact unless she wants to spend thousands of dollars I'm gonna bet a random indie vtuber probably doesn't have.
Or its just a typical oppsy, the worst it could be is your memory card gets damaged or distroyed.
SSD Trim kills it immediately no recovery possible
The only time I heard someone "accidentally delete something big/important" is using Linux. Mostly about database. Not sure how it happens in other operating system.
Maybe had the wrong folder selected when she was deleting something else
Then it should be in the Recycle Bin. Unless it was a shared drive. Then yea, it might be gone for good.
Some files can be too big for the recycling bin. Windows will prompt you to delete those outright.
Guys guys!! UPDATE https://twitter.com/HexaVT/status/1786299795033723124?t=nzS7eVBtfoERQR3HeH9aRQ&s=19 Her friend had a copy, I don't know if she managed to recover everything, but probably a notable portion
"New" lesson for vtuber folks: Your Email account in Google comes with a complimentary storage space - use it. Mega comes up and comes down but you only have to check in on it once and a while to let the system know you're alive. That's space right there. Torrent/magnets are a thing, just get friends to see it for you once in awhile Cloud storage is a thing. Physical thumb drives/sd card are a thing. And they're cheap. You'd think it'd be common sense, but common sense ain't common these days, so.
the rules of backup have at least 3.
This is why I built a 24TB NAS with 2 drive redundancy. That NAS serves as just an archive and backup of my desktop PC files, and all of my work stuff involving content creation or game development all are in Dropbox or a version control repo like bitbucket. A lot of my files get mirrored to my laptop from time to time to work on the go. At least three local copies (one or two sometimes slightly out of date), one cloud copy. I've never had a drive failure, but I have had a car break-in where three consecutive cars got hit, and my laptop in my covered back trunk got stolen. The flashdrive in the laptop had my only copy of software I was developing, and since then, never again. Can never have too much redundancy.
What os do you use for yours? I’m literally in the process of building one myself. Also do you have separate drive for the OS?
I spent a couple months trying to learn and plan a build from the ground up, and eventually just got a Synology 8-drive NAS. If you're looking for a different solution, r/DataHoarder or r/HomeNAS might be of help.
There are various approaches. You can do something enterprise level with associated costs. You can do something on a budget that requires quite a bit of technical knowledge. Or you can buy "NAS in a box" solutions that cost more, are less performant, but are easy to setup even if you are unfamiliar with linux and all the technical stuff. Personally I went with a budget version of the latter. I bought a Synology 2-bay diskless NAS. Stuck 2x [12TB Refurbished Enterprise HDDs](https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AHDD) and had a full 12TB RAID mirrored setup for $300-350, less than the annual cost of some cloud plans. It's not ideal but I was on a super budget. I offset the unreliability of the refurbished drives by running them in RAID 1 mirrored setup. Finally, I also got to remember to only save stuff in folders I set to sync to the NAS for the NAS to be effective (or work exclusively on the NAS, but then it is no longer a "backup"). Later on I bought an external HDD, attached it to a family member's router that had auto-FTP software, and later had the NAS sync itself with the remote external HDD. This added a 2nd physical location to my backup plan, which is usually recommended. Again external HDD to a router is not ideal, but I am on a budget. Maybe when I have more money I can build a 2nd real NAS, then use my OG scuff setup as the offsite backup. I also have a Microsoft 365 acct with 1TB cloud, as well as a 1TB external SSD I manually sync the really important stuff too. The latter solution not being constantly connected to the PC is important to protect you from ransomware. I got randomwared once and it also tried attacking my network drives. OneDrive is thankfully smart about detecting randsomware and not syncing it, I actually got warned by OneDrive that one synced PC was being encrypted and it had a one-button undo for the randsomwared files.
Thank for the advice. Yea i kinda just cobbled together some old parts I had and bought some new hdds. Hardware wise, Im pretty comfortable, but I get a bit more nervous when it comes to set up and RAID and all that jazz.
Same I had a cobbled together file server built with an old office Dell I got for free out of an ewaste bin and whatever random HDDs that were on sale at the time, with some scuffed non-redundant Microsoft Storage Paces Raid-0 like setup. It was really bad, when that PC got randsomwared and I almost lost everything (I did loose all my anime/movies/music) was when I made my scuff Synology NAS setup I described above. When I have more money and maybe more knowledgeable with the software after tinkering with my current NAS I might build my own more powerful one, completely from scratch, but Synology was a good entry point for me as a newbie who just got jumpscared and almost lost everything.
I have backblaze + google drive and it works well enough for everyone Small stuff like models are on google drive (as well as backblaze ofc) and for big stuff like vods they are on youtube (without audio separated), on my computer, and on backblaze so that is enough safety net for me The sad part is denchi added monthly popup windows in vtube studio for people to backup their stuff and this still happens but hopefully they will start backing up stuff now
Yeah, the only reason I have the entire NAS is because I plan to back up ALL of my personal files on it. I even have two massive drives that I'll be using for snapshots/version control of the 24TB RAID setup. It's extremely overkill if the goal is to just back up Vtubing assets.
Backing up VODs can easily take up that much space but not the models themselves
At least three copies in at least two physical locations. Additional cloud mirror for the really important stuff. My personal backup strategy is auto sync for important folders on NAS. The NAS is 2 disks mirrored in Raid 1. The NAS's important folder is then synced to an external HDD attached to a router at a family member's house. I also have 1TB of Microsoft OneDrive and do manual backups to a 1TB external SSD. It's not ideal, my NAS uses refurbed ex-datacenter 12TB drives in RAID 1 with a lot of hours on them, my movies and music aren't backed up offsite - just the important stuff, the offsite backup is just an external HDD but I was on a budget, I still have to remember to mark folder or only save important stuff to synced folders, but I am happy with it for how little I spent on the setup ($300) and it was the bare minimum I could do to have some level of redundancy I was happy with after loosing major data previously.
The Law of Backups: 3 is 2. 2 is 1. 1 is none.
Once you start going that route, you also realize that you will also need to "checkpoint" your backups and do test restores. You could accidentally wipe your backup state because you backed up a bad state, which checkpointing will solve. Your backup system may be corrupted, which testing restores will catch before you really need it.
You can also save everything but the model itself on postimages.org, file storage places like to prune unused accounts every now and then so *whatever can get thrown in image hosts* make sure you do that too! I have stuff still there going back to when it was postimg.cc 12 years ago, had a space of about 5 years where I didn't even touch it. Dropbox is nice if you are working on projects with multiple contributors too, you can set it to allow other people to upload, such as if you are getting accessories for a model or don't want to use just email for receiving chat stickers, and both parties can edit things on the fly. Lots of puny 10 person game studios use it.
I use Backblaze and really like it. It periodically crawls through your harddrive and backs up all the files to their servers. All you have to do is (pay), install, and you can forget about it until you need it.
Or ya know add a 8TB spinning slow ass disk and setup windows backup at least.
And once you're making a living vtubing, get a safe deposit box. You know what everyone is using safe deposit boxes for in 2024? Tapes and hard drives. Nobody's storing jewelry anymore, it's all off-site backups.
vtube studio literally has a HUGE WARNING to backup your models files on cloud storage and other sites... putting all important files into one folder isn't, "safely backing up."
I permanently deleted my friend's thesis project on my laptop since I thought he has backed it up which turns out he did not, I don't remember what application I used but I got it back without any files missing. She probably can do it if it hasn't been too long since it was deleted
she tried multiple such programs and all of them said the deleted files are gone or corrupted
Ah then that's unfortunate :(
If she just used recycle bin she could get stuff back I did it by accident for holiday pictures and recovered a lot of them years later. Then again she said it was all overwritten
Thing is, once you "delete" something it isn't immediately Gone gone. Data basically lives on your harddisk at a certain address, and normal deletion just makes it so that the operating system "forgets" that anyone lives there and, if necessary, lets new data live there in the future. However, technically speaking, the old data is still there, it just seems like a blank space to the operating system. (This is because performance-wise, it makes no sense to physically delete something off the disk instead of just pretending it isn't there, both actions have the same result but physical deletion takes much more work and effort than just forgetting/pretending.) Unless this was like some out-of-the-ordinary extremely thorough deletion, it's still possible to save (at least some of) the data. So yeah, not sure what exactly she means by "overwritten" but usually it does NOT mean "new data now lives there" so she should definitely look into recovery software/services and the like.
It could be an SSD, which handles data and deletion in a completely different way, it's more similar to ram than a hard disk.
This is not true at all. The process to delete data between hard drives and SSDs are similar. It is inefficient for a system to *actually* delete data on a drive, both for hard drives and SSDs. The OS will just mark the data as available to overwrite, which is why the Vtuber said it was overwritten. As long as new data has not overwritten the old data, it will still be there.
Not really true. SSDs sifll use the same file allocation process as disks just what they point to is a bit different. In both cases they "delete" files just by removing them from the index and marking that space as available. It's actually even less desirable for SSDs to deliberately blank the space the files were on unless physical data security is an issue because every individual memory cell has a life span of how many writes it can tolerate (though these days in practice that's longer than most consumer level devices will ever see)
This is a straight up lie. Why would you even type that?
SSD's handle data deletion very differently and it's likely actually deleted if its been a little while since deletion. Also she said it was overwritten, so if that's the case you have practically no hope of recovery.
Heavy file are straight up deleted and not sent to the bin, she may have to use recovery services
She aparently tried but couldn't get all of them from what I read
Follow Up: https://preview.redd.it/wrz5mzxgx5yc1.jpeg?width=813&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b362d13a83f2adb9f7a7693c6218229785a8e6c
https://preview.redd.it/7hjewj4ix5yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac4c267bd2cc09d5622cfbeca1ebbaae73278fc6
people were really bitching to her at this time??? come on that's an asshat move
I don't think they were bitching, they were just trying to help, but it was stuff she already tried and it's understandable she wasn't in emotional state to hear such stuff
The entire thing is a parasocial relationship so why would it not apply here?
Well ultimately it’s her own fault this happened. So she’s probably just interpreting it that way from the stress.
Could she try contact the artist to see if they still have it or maybe check the download link from when the artist send her the model?
https://preview.redd.it/qpo9canjx5yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63bb2b379e67f2e5d8c748cb7d9578de671b1b3c
Dang, an answer to every question.
well that's unfortunate
That's amazing. And also unfortunate. Luckily she get it back.
I feel like there has to be *some* way for her to recover the assets and she’s just panicking currently. If not though that’s a bummer and the actual nightmare I’m sure many indies have.
She was able to get her model files back from one of the HKM girls when they did the model swap so there's that at least
Reminder to always have another backup for your importants file outside of your PC. I stored some of my files on MEGA.
Even if you have a back up make sure you have a back up of it. Even more so when it's something you can't just download or remake and you depend on it for income
3-2-1 rule: at least 3 copies of your data, on at least 2 storage media, with at least 1 copy offsite
Time for the good ol' /r/DataHoarder [backup Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/wiki/backups/) to guide everyone of us towards peace of mind.
And this is why I have my important folders set up to back up to the cloud. And I create a full backup of my entire computer to a hard drive once every month or so. I'm glad she got it back, but hopefully this acts as a lesson for a lot of people on why it's so important to get your computer backed up.
That data can be recovered still if she doesn’t use the drive
Idk im a very skeptical person but how the heck did you delete an entire file by accident? Especially a very important one where it contains every single aspect of your job ?
TIL data recovery on an SSD is highly unlikely because of TRIM
hows it possibly all been overwritten
This is why I sometimes am thankful that I'm a data hoarder. 😅
Fun fact, Windows has tools that you can use so files can't be deleted or can be recovered even if you delete them. You have to set this up, but it may be a good idea. Or you know, BACK UP YOUR DATA.
skill issue tbh
This is a huge bruh moment
its a canon event. theres nothing we can do.
It sounds like what they are gonna do is be cleaning up some vomit
She should go get her drive recovered. Even if she did 'delete' everything, the files should still exist - as far as the drive's concerned, the only thing that's been overwritten is the registry data which has altered the designation from previously occupied sectors from used to re-writable. The only way it's gone-gone is if the drive's been sanitized. Assuming she hasn't done anything too hasty, a good portion if not all of the data should still be recoverable. Even if it has been overwritten, a good forensics recovery tech can read the bias and recover data that way.
The last time I looked into professional data recovery, the cost was in the 2000-3000 USD range 5-6 years ago. If it's still around that price, a lot of people can't afford it.
A reminder for anyone, always have backups and backups of backups for "mission critical" data. The more the better, many would go so far as to say just having an extra copy somewhere isn't enough redundancy. There's multiple worst case hypothetical scenarios to consider. The storage device dies, which makes data recovery unfeasible outside of sending it to a specialist. A second copy on the same computer on a second storage device can be lost if the computer experiences a catastrophic power event (rare) such as the PSU taking out multiple components. A copy on another storage device (external drive), these can get lost or accidentally deleted. A copy on a NAS with sufficient disk parity (the ability to lose 1 or more storage devices in a RAID array and continue operating). This is the preferred way to have a copy of data stored locally, but not cost effective nor easy for most people. You also risk losing the copy in the event of a fire or other natural disaster or from faulty wiring in the residence and suffering from a lightning strike and that sort of thing. An easy (and required) option is off-site backups, simply using a cloud storage solution. In fact use more than 1 from 2 different companies that run different CDNs. This can easily be a free option too. The general rule is to maintain 3 copies, with 1 being off-site. You run into issues with syncing your data, but for assets that aren't frequently updated it can be easier to handle.
not 100% sure but if she's using windows I believe there a way to turn back time on her pc so she can recover some deleted files.
she didn't have that feature enabled
And this is why we keep backups of important files people!
Always back up something important! If it's extremely important also use the 3-2-1 backup strategy.
I should probably stop ignoring vtube studios monthly warnings...
Honestly, please backup! The dirt simplest options are OneDrive, Dropbox or gdrive. Just work out that folder in future. I recommend going paid just for the extended file history. Which means if you make changes and overwrite you can roll back to a past version you did like.
What she can do is do a restore back up to a system previus date like a 1 or 2 months ago, she will lost whatever extra she did in that time but she will recover some of the stuff she lost [Windows 10 Restore](https://youtu.be/ZrEfzttnvR0?si=3bcgdfum6Ksd7bmj) [Windows 11](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgBj6QGi-c0)
I feel ya. I was crashed a while back a while in Vrchat. the gpu crasher fried my PC and I lost all world design assets, all my model data, my unity tools... and most importantly... 80 gigs of recorded video, voice recordings and MIDI samples. access to my entire virtual studio was lost..... soul-wrenching really. good luck on recovery. that was two years ago.... OwO.
Damn. Keep backups people.. And CHECK your backups. In the tech world we have a saying "if you haven't verified your backups can restore successfully, then you don't have a backup". Also keep at least 2 backups. 1) on a local drive and 2) on an off site archive. Get a service like backblaze
NEW FEAR UNLOCKED
Thank god someone else had it saved, otherwise this would have been the mother of all fuck ups
I can’t even imagine what that would be like. Honestly, the person with the back-up is a hero
Who is she?
she’s an independent VT.
If you commish to other, maybe they have backup
She’s fine she got it back from a friend that saved it
Real good lesson for streamers to make sure and double check that your stuff is backed up. Like that just sounds like a bundle of stress right there.
Check cloud sometimes that thing auto back up files
Oof
Always back up files. Even if you’re a vtuber
Could an external drive be restored?
How do you accidentally perma-delete something? Afaik most OS have a bunch of processes to prevent that from happening. I get accidentally deleting something and it being sent to recycle bin where you can still recover it. But perma? There’s like a whole process you have to do for that and then the OS even asks you if you’re sure multiple times.
Oh God, that's just... Brutal. At least she recovered the model, it could've been much worse. That's punishing. Always back your important stuff up, guys. And then back THAT up, too. It's better to have old redundancies than to lose everything because of a mistake or a harddrive error or something else.
I did this once when half asleep with the folder that held 1000 hours of homebrew work for a dnd campaign. I'm so glad she was able to get at least some of it back.
Should have just hit CNTL-z
Can't someone restore deleted files from the trash folder if they delete them?
The most basic system you can set up is file history. It's part of windows and easy to enable. The second layer you can add is an external copy to a hard drive. Third layer is to a NAS of sorts. Fourth layer is cloud based like google drive or onedrive.
First thing when you realise you deleted something you should not have - disable drive, so that windows dont overwrite data, and then use professional data extraction services. Can recover almost anything, Because deleting does not turn 1 with 0 on the drive - just deletes the access thru other memory sector
There several ways to recover deleted files
now will she do a proper 3-2-1 backup strategy? probably not
Look into full hdd backups to prevent future issues.
Or in situation like this, I highly suggest to get a file recovery software. Its actually kinda magical since that software can actually get sertain files back, but today's Zoomers isnt too Text Savvy. The reason I brought this up, is because in the past I accidentally deleted my photos in a camera I owned, and somehow I was able to recover some of the photos though a software. There are alot of free software out there, and please always get a file recover as soon as possible if a file is lost. (I know people will ignore it, so whatever lol)
Windows machines have the ability to recover deleted files without too much difficulty using the Windows File Recovery application. If you know what you're doing in command prompt and are fast enough, you don't even need that. On Linux, you can install Foremost and recover the entire directory with a single command. Not sure about Apple, but the last time I heard about it, you were just fucked. Then again, this was fifteen years ago, and maybe things have changed since then.
Always do full backups to cloud and physical external drives. Total collapse just one key press away is just too risky
Wouldn’t it be in the recycling bin?
Yeah, well said that’s why backups are important
This is why you keep a copy of big projects on the cloud. Poor girl! This could be the end of her Vtubing journey.
https://preview.redd.it/aj4ismro26yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d349e12ed7bd29236450954f4435c36e159fff5c It seems another VTuber (Aruru Rosario) had her model saved. I think her model being lost was her main concern, so it’s good she at least was able to recover it.
Even if she failed to get it back, this would be major setback for her. Not career ending disaster.
Obviously, yes. But you get the level of stress something like that would hit you with
ARURU TO THE RESCUE THREE CHEERS FOR ARURU! HIP HIP!
Oh no…anyways
Lol gg f6
Damn, that SUCKS. Reminds me of when I was backing up my harddrive FILLED with memes, books, movies, obscure songs I found and liked, I had since 2015. During the night, the hdd gave out and I lost everything.
You can hate cloud storage all you want, fear that your data is spied upon etc... but cloud storage has saved me or my clients so many times...
Haw haw
Lol
how can someone be so dumb in todays day especially if their job is using a computer? like for real. there are so many backup and safeguards and second chances to make sure. crazy incompetency if you actually manage to delete an entire folder with your livelihood in it and for so long that its unrecoverable.
Biggest scuff off of one indie Vtuber this year imo
That's hilarious