I think it’s sort of a hodgepodge feeling right now. I’d keep Karion cross and the Paul and Scarlett. I’d drop the tag team. I’d take the Viking raiders and get rid of their gimmick. Feel like they’d seem more cohesive.
Ivar and Erik. I wouldn’t move Valhalla. Ivar can move immediately. If Erik comes back he can join, if he doesn’t then Viking raiders was over with anyway. Ivar is a talented big man and is being wasted right now.
I don’t know why but their whole vibe really doesn’t mesh with me I just find myself not invested in them and for all intents and purposes I’m a pretty easy audience. I find them (sorry for saying) cruel in the way they are depicted and I find myself not interested in them. Does anyone else kind of sort of share this sentiment?
What I’d do:
Have Kross feud with a top star. This could be someone like Sheamus, or Sami. Have him win. Dominantly. Give him his old music back as well. After this feud, have him attack another top star. Let him go on a tear.
AOP goes on a literal Tag Team rampage. Have them obliterate even established teams. Have them feud with a top tag team, and have them win as well. Paul Elring can cut promos with them.
Scarlet can be associated with Kross, but let Kross win clean. Having her interfere makes him look weak. Same with AOP. Maybe she even has a few matches.
I don’t get what they’re doing with them. Their gimmick is a violent, dominant heel faction yet they’ve lost EVERY SINGLE MATCH THEYVE HAD. Just recently on NXT they lost their tag match against people much smaller than them, really cementing how pathetic they look to people. They need some long term feuds where they come out on top, not short ones that they lose in a week or two’s time.
Send Kross and Scarlett back to NXT. Give him his original gimmick and watch him flourish. Send AOP and the manager packing. It didn’t really work the first time, and it’s clearly not working now.
At least with Kross there is potential.
It sure looks bleak now… but, think back to how he was presented when he first arrived in NXT. Before the first call up. He was a top name and was booked well. They absolutely had something good with him. It wouldn’t take much to give him a bit of time off and then unleash him on NXT again. He’d do just fine.
They need attack a main event guy.. Lashley and the street profits are mid card at this point.. if you want people to care if Kross he needs to enter into a feud with someone at the top of the card currently. That’s the only way I see the fans caring. I for one am a fan of Karrion Kross and I wish they would give him a proper push
I’d love to see them feud with Sami. I think that would work really well. Awesome truth come to his aid but get squashed too which sets up a tag match and an IC match.
It's like a group project where all the kids are failing the class, and get one last chance to make it work.
This is sort of the last step before being cut, throw a bunch of randos together, give them something to work with and hope it resonates. If not you're future endeavored.
Though going down to NXT to put over new talent seems to be another stop before being cut.
Their schtick still seems unfocused and boring. What even is it?
We have all seen decent talent stuck in bad gimmicks before and here we are again. Whatever it is that they have been trying to do with Kross forever just doesn’t ping with anyone.
Their future is the same as their past. No one cares about them and they will eventually fade away like Kross has the last 4 times. They had to bring in a "Legendary Manager" from the 80s to give them legitimacy and it still didn't work. WTF does Paul Ellering even do besides stand around and look like a creep and weirdo.
They'll give him a spot as long as he has Scarlett by his side. All they have to do is just let the man go on a winning streak so his "threats" aren't unintentionally hilarious.
Karrion Kross is great. His mic work and psychology are top notch. We know he can work in the ring based on his past. I think fans are too impatient nowadays. There will be a payoff I’m sure. I for certain am looking forward to what’s next with FT on Raw.
They are jobbers. Alpha academy is way past them. Judgment Day even with the injured is way past them. LWO has passed them. Whenever the Wyatt group debut they will be passed them.
I think they’ll benefit from being on the longer show. They’ll be featured more often on Raw than on smack down. I think Triple H is a Karrion Kross fan, he’ll be fine
If i am not mistaken. Every on in the group was at one point fired. So you have an uphill battle to start with. You then have the issue of Cross being pushed as a monster, But never winning.
I like them and I think given time and decent booking they'll get over better. But just because you and a lot of others don't like them, doesn't mean nobody does. There's always an opposite perspective, regardless of the subject matter.
That argument, if it even classifies as such, is at best, erroneous. Stone Cold Steve Austin was fired by WCW because they thought he wouldn't amount to anything, then walked out over creative later in WWE and came back. Mark Calloway was fired from WCW by Ole Anderson and told he'd never draw a dime and then went on to be the Undertaker. Dwayne Johnson started so horribly that fans chanted Die, Rocky, Die because he was so truly hated and he still became The Rock. Drew McIntyre was fired and eventually came back and finally, only recently, got some really good creative and is doing his best work yet. And yes, there are other examples if you bother to look. All it takes is consistent, good creative backing and time. And by the way, again, you not liking someone doesn't make them disliked by everyone. Just as my liking them doesn't make them liked by everyone. It's personal opinion. Yours matters to you. Mine matters to me. Outside of ourselves, our opinions really don't matter.
The best reason to have a faction is for a well-liked/established superstar to help elevate the other members, like Bobby Lashley in The Pride or Edge then Finn Balor in The Judgment Day, but there isn't really anyone in the Final Testament that fits that role, because none of them are over, which means the faction will probably struggle.
If they'd hinted at there being a secret leader of that faction pulling the strings, who would reveal themselves at a later date, it would have raised interest in them, and then they could have had them be led a returning superstar like Braun, or even someone even more unpredictable like Seth Rollins returning as a heel.
Nah, the only reason he'll be over when he returns is because of his link to Bray, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he's capable of elevating anyone. I hope whatever they're planning succeeds but it can't be anything to do with the Final Testament.
Pretty much, yeah. Bo never really excelled in WWE, and it was pretty much nepotism that got him his job back, and now he'll actually have to be the face of the faction that Bray would have led. It'd be like if Chris Hemsworth decided not to play Thor anymore and they replaced him with Liam Hemsworth.
Probably a controversial opinion, but I just want them to drop Uncle Howdy, which was a crap gimmick anyway, and just have Bo be a new incarnation of The Fiend, full time. They can say that although Bray Wyatt found the light, the darkness never leaves and just finds a new host.
Seth actually is a good shout for a leader of The Final Testament. He was paired with AOP in his Messiah days.
They could quite easily make it happen still. Get them to target Cody, and just some ominous shit like "The orders are coming from above" or "You will pay for your actions" and then have Seth return as their leader, blaming Cody for him losing his title to Drew. Lean back towards the Messiah stuff a little bit
Seth volunteering, completely unprompted btw, to help Cody with The Bloodline takes blaming Cody off the shelf. "I volunteered to cover your shift, even though you didn't ask me to, because I wanted to help so it's your fault I'm tired." Nope.
But he'd be coming back as a heel so that sort of logic can go out of the window. He could play it as "I lost my title so you could get that away from Roman... Now I'm coming to collect the debt"
Or he could come back as the babyface hero who sacrificed his body and helped get rid of Roman. Only now The Bloodline is more out of control so he could help with that when he comes back.
He didn't volunteer to help Cody. In kayfabe, and maybe IRL, he didn't really like Cody. He volunteered to destroy the Bloodline who was becoming to powerful.
Volunteering to destroy The Bloodline IS helping Cody don't you think? He literally said "let me be your shield" to Cody. Cody didn't ask him for anything, so Seth literally volunteered his services.
There is literally an interview between them where he says something like, "I'm not doing this for you and I don't like you, but this is bigger than us and we need to destroy the Bloodline"
Yes and he said all that after Cody told him it was HIS story and he HAD TO finish it ALONE. Seth wasn't forced to do anything. He volunteered his services to help. That's the whole reason Drew was mad at him before WM.
Yeah, could definitely work. Perhaps not with Cody because he's on the opposite show now, but Punk would be a good one, especially given the history. They could have the Final Testament surround the ring in a Punk vs Drew segment, and have Drew do the cowardly thing and accept an invitation to leave the ring, leaving Punk alone, so then a returning Seth runs down to make the save, only he doesn't, he lands the first blow on Punk and then the rest of the faction finish him off.
I think Seth has had major plotlines with several of the superstars Karrion Kross targeted too, like Shinsuke, McInytre and Rey, so they could also lean into that if they wanted.
They should feature her A LOT more. Not just because I want to see it, but because that would help them all get some better exposure. They need to have her cut her own promos and let her looks sell the point.
It’s still crazy to me as someone who watched Karrion Kross during the pandemic in NXT, how he hasn’t been able to get over. Looking back at his early time in the company he looked to be a sure fire future world champion. Same goes for AOP who are arguably the best tag team in NXT history alongside UE and DIY. I think the only way Karrion works out properly is if they give him more freedom and have him completely solo, even without Scarlett.
If they're lucky an Intercontinental title reign and world tag title reign. That's their ceiling.
Mostly I think they'll just be a multi-month distraction for some big name face who needs some time away from a title chase and a set of bad guys to contrast off of. Sami Zayn will probably wind up feuding with them at some point when he loses his belt. Seth, Jey, I could see them coming to blows.
FT will beat up and surprise attack for months, tag match, tag match, singles match with interference, big blow off, repeat. Basically what just happened with Bobby Lashley and crew.
It's impossible to deny that they just aren't over. But I like them and I think they all have so much potential. They just need to be used at the top of the card. They are believable heels against top babyfaces but as long as they are just toiling in the mid card, nobody is gonna care.
I think it’s sort of a hodgepodge feeling right now. I’d keep Karion cross and the Paul and Scarlett. I’d drop the tag team. I’d take the Viking raiders and get rid of their gimmick. Feel like they’d seem more cohesive.
Viking Raiders?? One of them is pregnant, the other has a near career ending injury.
Ivar and Erik. I wouldn’t move Valhalla. Ivar can move immediately. If Erik comes back he can join, if he doesn’t then Viking raiders was over with anyway. Ivar is a talented big man and is being wasted right now.
Valhalla is pregnant, she is gone for at least a year and a half.
I understand that. She wouldn’t be in the new group anyway.
The final testicle
I don’t know why but their whole vibe really doesn’t mesh with me I just find myself not invested in them and for all intents and purposes I’m a pretty easy audience. I find them (sorry for saying) cruel in the way they are depicted and I find myself not interested in them. Does anyone else kind of sort of share this sentiment?
Catering.
The gimmick just isnt working. The segments they have i just cant get into or take serious.
This. It’s like there’s two different vibes that clash with each other. They should’ve let the AOP do what they do and sent Kross to NXT
I like AOP fine, but we can Future Endeavor the rest.
They could easily be tag champs and Cross be a midcard champ.
What I’d do: Have Kross feud with a top star. This could be someone like Sheamus, or Sami. Have him win. Dominantly. Give him his old music back as well. After this feud, have him attack another top star. Let him go on a tear. AOP goes on a literal Tag Team rampage. Have them obliterate even established teams. Have them feud with a top tag team, and have them win as well. Paul Elring can cut promos with them. Scarlet can be associated with Kross, but let Kross win clean. Having her interfere makes him look weak. Same with AOP. Maybe she even has a few matches.
Why would they waste top talent on kross? Or aop, for that matter
It’s called putting people over.
Why would you pair a mid carder with top taken?
released
UNLEASHED
I don’t get what they’re doing with them. Their gimmick is a violent, dominant heel faction yet they’ve lost EVERY SINGLE MATCH THEYVE HAD. Just recently on NXT they lost their tag match against people much smaller than them, really cementing how pathetic they look to people. They need some long term feuds where they come out on top, not short ones that they lose in a week or two’s time.
Retribution 2.0
Released
A split, with AOP doing better than Krosd in the aftermath
Send Kross and Scarlett back to NXT. Give him his original gimmick and watch him flourish. Send AOP and the manager packing. It didn’t really work the first time, and it’s clearly not working now. At least with Kross there is potential.
Kross has no potential.
It sure looks bleak now… but, think back to how he was presented when he first arrived in NXT. Before the first call up. He was a top name and was booked well. They absolutely had something good with him. It wouldn’t take much to give him a bit of time off and then unleash him on NXT again. He’d do just fine.
You're just out here on this thread trying to bury him for some reason huh? Did he finger your mum?
They need attack a main event guy.. Lashley and the street profits are mid card at this point.. if you want people to care if Kross he needs to enter into a feud with someone at the top of the card currently. That’s the only way I see the fans caring. I for one am a fan of Karrion Kross and I wish they would give him a proper push
I’d love to see them feud with Sami. I think that would work really well. Awesome truth come to his aid but get squashed too which sets up a tag match and an IC match.
It's like a group project where all the kids are failing the class, and get one last chance to make it work. This is sort of the last step before being cut, throw a bunch of randos together, give them something to work with and hope it resonates. If not you're future endeavored. Though going down to NXT to put over new talent seems to be another stop before being cut.
The logic kind of falls apart when 3 of them were just rehired.
Their schtick still seems unfocused and boring. What even is it? We have all seen decent talent stuck in bad gimmicks before and here we are again. Whatever it is that they have been trying to do with Kross forever just doesn’t ping with anyone.
Kross isn't a decent talent. He sucks.
I agree. I was just speaking in generalities
No he is good. His gimmick isn't authentic to his personality though. He's actually really funny and charismatic
Future endeavors
Their future is the same as their past. No one cares about them and they will eventually fade away like Kross has the last 4 times. They had to bring in a "Legendary Manager" from the 80s to give them legitimacy and it still didn't work. WTF does Paul Ellering even do besides stand around and look like a creep and weirdo.
They'll give him a spot as long as he has Scarlett by his side. All they have to do is just let the man go on a winning streak so his "threats" aren't unintentionally hilarious.
I want them to suceed but they need something. Maybe them being drafted to Raw and working with other talent will help them.
Karrion Kross is great. His mic work and psychology are top notch. We know he can work in the ring based on his past. I think fans are too impatient nowadays. There will be a payoff I’m sure. I for certain am looking forward to what’s next with FT on Raw.
They are jobbers. Alpha academy is way past them. Judgment Day even with the injured is way past them. LWO has passed them. Whenever the Wyatt group debut they will be passed them.
I think they’ll benefit from being on the longer show. They’ll be featured more often on Raw than on smack down. I think Triple H is a Karrion Kross fan, he’ll be fine
If i am not mistaken. Every on in the group was at one point fired. So you have an uphill battle to start with. You then have the issue of Cross being pushed as a monster, But never winning.
I like them and I think given time and decent booking they'll get over better. But just because you and a lot of others don't like them, doesn't mean nobody does. There's always an opposite perspective, regardless of the subject matter.
...they've all been fired at least once.
That argument, if it even classifies as such, is at best, erroneous. Stone Cold Steve Austin was fired by WCW because they thought he wouldn't amount to anything, then walked out over creative later in WWE and came back. Mark Calloway was fired from WCW by Ole Anderson and told he'd never draw a dime and then went on to be the Undertaker. Dwayne Johnson started so horribly that fans chanted Die, Rocky, Die because he was so truly hated and he still became The Rock. Drew McIntyre was fired and eventually came back and finally, only recently, got some really good creative and is doing his best work yet. And yes, there are other examples if you bother to look. All it takes is consistent, good creative backing and time. And by the way, again, you not liking someone doesn't make them disliked by everyone. Just as my liking them doesn't make them liked by everyone. It's personal opinion. Yours matters to you. Mine matters to me. Outside of ourselves, our opinions really don't matter.
By the old regime though
I don't know I just wish karrion was on his own and not with flunkies and his wife.
The best reason to have a faction is for a well-liked/established superstar to help elevate the other members, like Bobby Lashley in The Pride or Edge then Finn Balor in The Judgment Day, but there isn't really anyone in the Final Testament that fits that role, because none of them are over, which means the faction will probably struggle. If they'd hinted at there being a secret leader of that faction pulling the strings, who would reveal themselves at a later date, it would have raised interest in them, and then they could have had them be led a returning superstar like Braun, or even someone even more unpredictable like Seth Rollins returning as a heel.
Whose the ~~third~~ fifth man?
Bo Dallas?
Nah, the only reason he'll be over when he returns is because of his link to Bray, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he's capable of elevating anyone. I hope whatever they're planning succeeds but it can't be anything to do with the Final Testament.
If Bo returns he'll be over until enough time has passed that everyone can feel comfortable enough to admit that he sucks 😂
Pretty much, yeah. Bo never really excelled in WWE, and it was pretty much nepotism that got him his job back, and now he'll actually have to be the face of the faction that Bray would have led. It'd be like if Chris Hemsworth decided not to play Thor anymore and they replaced him with Liam Hemsworth. Probably a controversial opinion, but I just want them to drop Uncle Howdy, which was a crap gimmick anyway, and just have Bo be a new incarnation of The Fiend, full time. They can say that although Bray Wyatt found the light, the darkness never leaves and just finds a new host.
I'm hoping maybe the Bo thing is just a mis-direction and we get a Wyatt Family-like faction and Bo isn't involved.
Fair enough.
Seth actually is a good shout for a leader of The Final Testament. He was paired with AOP in his Messiah days. They could quite easily make it happen still. Get them to target Cody, and just some ominous shit like "The orders are coming from above" or "You will pay for your actions" and then have Seth return as their leader, blaming Cody for him losing his title to Drew. Lean back towards the Messiah stuff a little bit
Seth volunteering, completely unprompted btw, to help Cody with The Bloodline takes blaming Cody off the shelf. "I volunteered to cover your shift, even though you didn't ask me to, because I wanted to help so it's your fault I'm tired." Nope.
But he'd be coming back as a heel so that sort of logic can go out of the window. He could play it as "I lost my title so you could get that away from Roman... Now I'm coming to collect the debt"
Or he could come back as the babyface hero who sacrificed his body and helped get rid of Roman. Only now The Bloodline is more out of control so he could help with that when he comes back.
He didn't volunteer to help Cody. In kayfabe, and maybe IRL, he didn't really like Cody. He volunteered to destroy the Bloodline who was becoming to powerful.
Volunteering to destroy The Bloodline IS helping Cody don't you think? He literally said "let me be your shield" to Cody. Cody didn't ask him for anything, so Seth literally volunteered his services.
There is literally an interview between them where he says something like, "I'm not doing this for you and I don't like you, but this is bigger than us and we need to destroy the Bloodline"
Yes and he said all that after Cody told him it was HIS story and he HAD TO finish it ALONE. Seth wasn't forced to do anything. He volunteered his services to help. That's the whole reason Drew was mad at him before WM.
Yeah, could definitely work. Perhaps not with Cody because he's on the opposite show now, but Punk would be a good one, especially given the history. They could have the Final Testament surround the ring in a Punk vs Drew segment, and have Drew do the cowardly thing and accept an invitation to leave the ring, leaving Punk alone, so then a returning Seth runs down to make the save, only he doesn't, he lands the first blow on Punk and then the rest of the faction finish him off. I think Seth has had major plotlines with several of the superstars Karrion Kross targeted too, like Shinsuke, McInytre and Rey, so they could also lean into that if they wanted.
It's so easy to book WWE. Hire us, Hunter.
Is it weird that i only wanna see Scarlett whenever the Final Testament appears?
They should feature her A LOT more. Not just because I want to see it, but because that would help them all get some better exposure. They need to have her cut her own promos and let her looks sell the point.
Can she cut promos though? I hope she can because many eyes would definitely tune in whenever she talks.
We'll never find out at this rate. Karrion's are really good (I like them at least) so she is probably learning from him.
Yes
It’s still crazy to me as someone who watched Karrion Kross during the pandemic in NXT, how he hasn’t been able to get over. Looking back at his early time in the company he looked to be a sure fire future world champion. Same goes for AOP who are arguably the best tag team in NXT history alongside UE and DIY. I think the only way Karrion works out properly is if they give him more freedom and have him completely solo, even without Scarlett.
Release
If they're lucky an Intercontinental title reign and world tag title reign. That's their ceiling. Mostly I think they'll just be a multi-month distraction for some big name face who needs some time away from a title chase and a set of bad guys to contrast off of. Sami Zayn will probably wind up feuding with them at some point when he loses his belt. Seth, Jey, I could see them coming to blows. FT will beat up and surprise attack for months, tag match, tag match, singles match with interference, big blow off, repeat. Basically what just happened with Bobby Lashley and crew.
It's impossible to deny that they just aren't over. But I like them and I think they all have so much potential. They just need to be used at the top of the card. They are believable heels against top babyfaces but as long as they are just toiling in the mid card, nobody is gonna care.