Defense objectives in particular have always been garbage at being able to take a few hits at high levels.
The defense objective on Akkad can tank an entire wave of the infestation, compared to this scenario where the objective has *even more health and shields*, I think a great fix for this kind of thing would be to just change all objectives to the same health, and filter enemy hits so they deal a certain portion of the objectives health at any time.
There is no scenario where the defense objective should be one-shot by ANY enemy.
>Defense objectives in particular have always been garbage
Thats it. Thats the whole problem.
Their HP should be doubled, their Armor tuned 10 or 20% (if they even have Armor) and their HP recovery per second needs to be a **PERCENTAGE** not a FLAT amount. A single Eximus can half the HP of the Objective and it will take it like 2 minutes to fully recover, because the healing is a flat amount. It should be 5% HP healed per second at all times or something like that.
This won't fix it. The beam gets more powerful the more it hits. In the clip, the beams is hitting 2 targets at once, being powered up 2x as fast as it should be. The REAL problem is the afk Frame on top of the objective. They knew that Jade Light Eximus spawns are high, and they stand ON TOP of what they should be protecting, KNOWING the beam tracks. Stupidity at it's finest right there.
We've been doing it for over a decade and thousands of hours. It will take months or more for the habit to die, if ever (unless DE fixes this first, hopefully)
I like what they’re doing with the Pod Objective in the Ascension game mode. It doesn’t get destroyed if it takes too much damage. Instead, it halts the mission until the shields are fully recharged. It would make defense missions way less stressful and Excavation missions much less frustrating in higher levels like Duviri Circuit.
This is a very practical way to do it. This way they can bring over power carrier enemies and have players grab em and toss em into the defense point and recharge the shields as well. It gives something else to balance while feeding into the loop of kill -> charge -> kill. I think that completing a wave should trigger a fast regen on the objective as well as a 25% burst of health, this way we can regenerate the massive snowballing losses that some eximus cause. Additionally, I think there should be a threshold for completing the objective with more than 50% health left or for never letting the objective die so it goes into the recharge state. You can tie it to a bonus reward or drop chance boost for the mission or something. Crucially you don't punish the player for mistakes, instead reward skillful play. I think these changes would make defense a very fun objective type. Defense is my second favorite mission type but loading into a high tier defense makes me stressed as hell bc all it takes is some dweebus camping the objective with their "afk build" and they sit there while it takes 3 fkn hours to complete.
I see too many people saying "don't afk on the objective!" Like the person is just unaware, but what if they do it on purpose?
This is an extremely effective grieffing tool and will absolutely be used as such, let's see how those opinions change when people start trolling on purpose
Thats why i do them solo. Theres a few mission i do solo simply cus its faster or i can garuntee the win. Most assassinates, sabatoge, and spys are done solo cus im not having some dumbass ruin it for me
My first sortie I sent us all to orbit because I didn't realize I couldn't use ciphers. After that I completely avoided spy sorties until I got Ivara and put the auto hack ability from the helminth on her.
Well, I understand you're point and I think specifically for defense objectives it should have SOME retention.
However, I feel the need to play devil's advocate and say that if the objective is losing chunks of health in the span of a few seconds, you would probably want to look at it and thusly see/shoot the pillar.
Keeping an eye on the health every couple of seconds is paramount to defense. Which is one of many reasons, among spawn, time and map designs causing slow rounds, as to why I'm not a huge fan of defense to begin with.
Mmmmm. Naw. Like, yeah maybe if you're doing super-hardcore-sweatlord-levelcap difficulty. But in normal missions? Nah. You can see in the video the objective is at 100%. They're on wave 3. They were winning this handily. It was a milk run. Then all of a sudden it fails. 100% to 0% in four seconds.
Even in the "few seconds" you should be looking at the objective health (which, in missions where you're winning handily I reject that notion entirely) you can see the sheer amount of damage that the beam does. Even if you're checking every three seconds, that puts the objective at 50% health. And in the next second it's dead. If you're checking every two seconds, the objective is at 80%, and in the next two seconds it's dead.
So even if you're maintaining constant vigilance on the healthbar, there's no way you can spot that happening and have enough time to react.
Ya its going to be a problem, but the easy solution is just bring a frame that can kill the map. I main a volt with terrify for armored enemies I can clear a map faster than the beam kills the point
This will probably get buried under all the comments here but allow me to clarify a few things.
1. The damage is perfectly fine on players and as I state IN THE POST I absolutely welcome a unit punishing AFK players
2. My problem is not that it punishes AFK players, it’s that the punishment ends the game for everyone who’s actually playing properly
3. Im not the hyldryn? I know how to play around the eximus? Im genuinely confused at how someone else going AFK is MY “skill issue”.
4. Just to be absolutely clear: if the hyldryn went down as punishment for being afk, maybe even a noticeable amount of damage to the objective to encourage players to rally back to the area, that would’ve been fine. It’s the fact that the game ended faster than I could even notice the health bar depleting that’s bothering me.
5. No “just subsume” is not a good counterpoint
Imagine doing a 20+ wave defense and someone decides to be a little mischievous and stand on top of the objective on purpose to fuck with you
People missed the point so bad in this post I may start trolling on purpose just to REALLY get the point across
What’s annoying is that standing on top of the objective used to be the ideal position.
You could see around it more easily, you become a target from all sides reducing damage to the target, you’re in a central position to cast abilities, and you’re close enough to melee units that sneak past gunplay.
Similar to how thrax were modified to not one shot the circuit defense target, I do expect they’ll adjust the speed at which this kills defense targets. Clearly they understood it was a problem, because they made the ascension defense target invincible.
>What’s annoying is that standing on top of the objective used to be the ideal position.
It was very effective as Zephyr as you could block like 99% of damage
Yeah on several maps I would regularly go Mesa and stand on top of the objective and just turn and shoot with my 4. Super effective but it’s a bit risky nowadays if I can’t instakill everyone.
The temptation is real, but unless you know who these dinguses are and can follow them around in game, you're just hurting randos who don't deserve it. I think these dinguses will see the light the first time it happens to them, don't you worry.
Lol, I'm glad the devs of warframe are also warframe players, means they can see issues from both sides and notice real problems sooner. It's not like games where devs are just employees doing their job and don't notice an issue until it's too late and tue community has really blown up over it.
I think it's pretty funny that they are Warframe players but they're not necessarily*good* at the game. They're excellent game devs and definitely enjoy the game they've made, but every dev stream that they show gameplay for a new frame or gamemode is obvious that they've got invincibility and such turned on, even in game modes that normally wouldn't require it 😂
Invincibility is really helpful when you are operating in a way to highlight other mechanics. Typical survivability methods are not conductive to showcasing new assets. Also, if they need to focus on the audience, focusing on survival becomes tedious, much more simple for all purposes to activate god mode to highlight things.
I just played a defense alert where two Jades both stood on the defense target, after I kindly asked them to not stand on it cuz the jade light shreds it one of them moved a couple steps to the side but the 2nd dude either didn't notice the message or stood on it to spite me (they weren't afking, they were using abilities). We still won but yeah ppl do be quite peculiar.
Being able to lose already earned rewards should be unacceptable, the fact if an enemy gets in 1 good hit on the defense objective I lose everything not just end the mission is why I don't do longer mission runs when I actually would like to just vibe in a mission for fun.
Sweaty tryhards in this thread going around acting like 4 seconds is enough time to notice the objective being demolish and then react to it. "IT'S A BIG GREEN LASER JUST SHOOT THE ORB" my dude, there are enemies all over the map, do you really expect everyone to keep their screen trained on the objective the whole time? Naw.
Also in the video the orb is in the rail. So like. Not even sure if it could have been shot even if you did notice it.
Keep up the good fight, my man.
That hildryn may not even be afk. When I play her I will often find a spot to turn on all her skills and pop out as kido and run around shooting things while hildryn sits there as a CC beacon.
People disagreeing with you are crazy delusional. Yes, staying AFK is bad, yadda yadda, but this kind of interaction where other players can't do shit to react (seriously, 5 seconds and it's an instant mission failure!!!) either shouldn't happen or the damage should be massively downgraded against defense targets. When eximus got reworked and we got Blitz eating through defense targets health bar like popcorn, people were (rightfully) angry and begged DE to either nerf them or buff the target's stats. They listened and defense was finally doable, especially in Circuit. We need to cause the same kind of uproar against Jade Eximus.
I mentioned this same exact thing in discord and basically everyone told me to
A. Not AFK (i was not the one getting hit by the laser)
B. Just shoot the laser LMAO skill issue.
This would be fair but why do i have to babysit other players because they decide to afk near the objective? And if I dont we all lose the game.
I dont even know. I really like the new units and im all for difficulty but shredding objectives in a couple of seconds because of one person just feels bad.
Honestly, often it feels like the community is against anything that makes it easier for the player to play the game without having to worry about something bs. I remember when they added Kuva Liches to the game, and back then, all it took was one press of X to finish off the pre-lich enemy, meaning you had to be careful to not accidentally finish it off if the preview showed a weapon you didn't want. Now, the problem with this was that if you were used to doing finishers on enemies as you attacked them, the downed Lich looks just like an enemy prone to a finisher, meaning that it was entirely too easy to accidentally kill the Lich on reflex, locking you into an undesirable weapon very likely (I did it at least 3 times myself and because of it, i stopped doing finishers and even today i have to actively think about doing one). I remember some people were asking for the Lich finisher to be a "hold X for Y seconds to kill" input, and you could not believe how many people were so vehemently against such a simple and small change that would help QoL so tremendously with very little negative consequences for the average user. It was all "Just git gud" and "Your own fault for not being more careful", which is so absurd considering the game rewards you for doing finishers, meaning it's actively conditioning you to do them whenever possible, making this mistake less about being unskilled, and more about you inevitably falling to muscle memory.
I'm just glad it got changed, and i can only imagine how these people reacted to the change. I'm actually curious if there's someone here who was angry that it got changed to be safer.
I just feel like sharin my opinions here, so here I go:
Point 1 - I agree with this wholly. JL Eximus is a great unit in terms of AFK-checking the players, being able to deal severe damage to them when left unchecked. They can oneshot my Wukong, which I've explicitly built for extreme durability; if that doesn't speak for itself then IDK what does.
(Additional note: I sat in one of the rays to see how much damage Defy would accumulate, and I easily reached into tens of millions)
Points 2 & 4 - These are also agreeable. Nobody wants to lose a Defense or Mob.Def mission before they can react because someone had to go AFK on the spot and then a JL Eximus pops up and just straight shreds the objective cause it just decided to target the guy who had to go AFK for whatever reason.
Points 3 & 5 - I don't understand why people are telling you this? If someone has to go AFK for any reason in a game, that does not qualify as a 'skill issue' - especially when the objective is burned down faster than you could react to it - and 'just subsume' does not change the root problem at play here whatsoever.
To be fair, it would be better if we had multiple checks for fail states (like Ascension does, but with an actual fail state other than getting out of res).
We wouldn't be having this conversation if the defense objective recovered at least once like the Vestigial thingie does.
This is a good conversation, despite the fact that what happened to you was entirely on said Hildryn player.
Yeah "skill issue" blah blah, in what other way can another players skill issue cause YOU to fail in this game? This is absolutely a problem that needs addressing.
Radiation sorties have been around for a while.
This would be annoying as hell though, imagine you’re just cracking relics and you have a pretty good haul going, then on wave 25 or 30 a Jade laser just targets your animation-locked teammate standing on the objective. Bye bye relic drops.
I agree completely. My genuine concerns with this isnt that it’s too strong, it’s the ability it gives the toxic players for griefing. Anyone who is targeted by the jade eximus who wants to fail the mission for everyone now can. I hate that there is toxic players in this community but it is a sad fact. I’m assuming they are going to remove its damage on defense targets when they realize this.
Side note, don’t just say play solo. If an enemy is forcing the entire player base to play solo it’s a problem with the enemy.
>Side note, don’t just say play solo.
Playing solo was never the solution for dealing with griefers unless you're pressed for time and need something done right and fast, then it is a genuine option. Play public, report griefers, purge them out of the community.
Genuine mistakes happen but a player getting reported for a mistake once or twice is unlikely to face consequences, a player that keeps getting reported for making the same obvious, mission failing, mistake over and over is either resistant to learning or doing it on purpose.
So THATS why I lost that one defense. And it was the Octavia's fault too who had a complete meltdown in the chat after and said he'd write a ticket and report the rest of the squad xdd
People all talk about "anti-afk", since when stoping for 3 seconds is being afk? You stop to respond a message and you are dead, you want to write something to squad, you are dead, wanna use Mesa's 4 for more than 4 seconds, you are dead. I think its a cool mechanic but the damage is off the charts. I played Belly of the Beast on SP for a day and it looked like a green laser hydra, you shot 1 laser and 2 more would appear, i think i spent more time looking up and destroying lasers than playing the actual mission.
tbh yes especially on less tanky frames, I play volt and after my 4 I need to instantly bulletjump across the map otherwhise I will just die because the shield heal from 4 just isnt enough to keep up with the laser, and its the same for everything I want to do. Want to use a shiled and grab it? than you better move fast right after It becuase there is 3 lasers comming
What I've been finding more bizarre about this beam is that it punishes you for ever trying to stop moving.
Warframes sometimes need to do a long animation and their placement can't always be remedied by, say, jump sliding while the cast happens.
If you want to pick up something on the ground, there's a chance you'll inevitably take some damage.
Reviving someone might either mean you will take damage or your warframe will be shred as soon as you return to it for being under the light.
Sometimes i switch tabs to change podcast or stream im listening and it can tike 5 and sometimes 20 seconds. Same with songs. But that doesnt mean im not playin and infact i usually tell others that "i need to change something afk for couple seconds". Havent played any defense missions with jade eximuses but so far it looks miserable in bad way
DE on Warframe abilities: "Oh no no no NO" you can NOT hit enemies that are not in your view !
DE on eximus: "Yeah so this cool laser will target the player across the walls"
I swear the Tenno in this section screaming "SKILL ISSUE" and "DESERVED FOR AFK" forget that OP WAS NOT THE AFK ONE.
Objectives in this game can be paperthin, but we know the threats. We can see them. Most require LoS.
The jade eximus is blasting the objective (thanks to the afk one) from a different realm, all the while the team is engaging with the game and looked away for a sec.
By the time the objective HP really dropped, it was too late for anyone on a different side of the map to intervene.
This was not a Demolyst, this was not a Hemocyte or something else that is a boss unit, it's a god damn eximus, a random elite enemy.
So, in a mission a player can, either by malice or distraction instantly end the mission for you in the time you look away, no warnings because that's a "elite random enemy" and the objective doesn't give any warning sound off.
Imagine if I could simply void dash the capture target off the map and he doesn't get respawned, but instead is deleted, mission failed. If i could actively add NEGATIVE progress onto an interception console.
That would be horrible, that would be dumb.
I'm not playing league of legends, i don't play Warframe to be at the mercy of some random guy.
This has to be changed, it has to, or the incursion of trolling and frustration would be catastrophic for the game's health.
> I swear the Tenno in this section screaming "SKILL ISSUE" and "DESERVED FOR AFK" forget that OP WAS NOT THE AFK ONE.
man, even if they *were*, it's five fucking seconds. nothing should destroy a defense objective that fast on its own.
Enemies split aggro between you and the objective based on something I can't remember. If you are on the objective, aggro aimed at you is now also aimed at the objective
Well there's also the consideration that Blitz Eximus explicitly don't target Defense objectives because they do so much damage. So a Blitz will only wreck the Defense target if you're standing too close to it, I imagine Jade Eximus come with the same logic.
five seconds though. like, that's not even enough time for most people to type a message in chat. that's getting distracted for a moment when a dog suddenly jumps on your lap. etc, etc, etc, it's entirely unreasonable for one single entity to kill a defense objective that fast.
The OP's video literally proving how unfair this new eximus is: while trying to "punish" the afk, but also involving everyone together. It doesn't solve anything, just makes it worse.
Meanwhile the majority is saying: "skill issue", "yep I love the new anti-agk mechanic".
Bro is the problem the afk? Kick them out asap instead of this bs. It's completely unnecessary and we already had 2 different eximus that targeted you with damaging bubbles. Rocket League for example doesn't even wait 1 minute to kick afk players.
1.Nothing stops the afks to be dead the entire mission while you complete it for them. Or respawn right at the end.
2.Neither them running some immortal frame like Revenant and doesn't helping for any reason.
I know those things because I've been getting those afks on my squads, especially the first case. I got some prints and clips from a guy just running around on sp circuit, not that would change anything. Still I'm right here having my invisible operator taking dmg while reviving a squad mate, then instantly being dead when going back to frame, resulting on two people down.
Shoot, I don't mind afkers when I'm playing something like Octavia or some other frame that either plays the game for me mostly or clears the entire map cause those players don't have anything to do.
One of the most frustrating threads I’ve seen on here
Just play solo
Just subsume silence
Just stand on the platform the whole time and babysit
Just get better teammates. Try discord!
Simple answer is that it does less damage to the objective.
The same try hards saying this shit are the ones that complained about circle killing netracells. You *liking* that boring ass content that you HAVE to play solo since those bad teammates drove you off?
This will be patched though. I can’t imagine DE will keep that in once the fails start rolling in. If not, this will be the first post of many…
Thanks for using your brain, i swear those tryhards want to foster a state of perpetual sweat, anger and griefing.
The damage is exponential, these jade lights will fry anything given enough time on ANY difficulty.
I get being absolutely NUKED on netracells, because i chose to go to tryhard city, i get lategame scaling and having to be on your toes.
But warframe usually is a pretty chill game allowing players to dictate their own pace. This unit dictates panic pace any time there's a defense objective, since one player can end it all for you.
The subsume one is funny.
Why, in *any* universe, should I have to sacrifice an often build-defining mechanic such as Helminth, **purely because of a singular enemy type.** It's ridiculous that 1 Eximus type can suddenly have the entire game revolve around it.
Not only does its damage need to be reduced, but also make it impossible to damage objective HP to prevent griefing.
i hate the "just play solo" like bruh over half the missions I play on pubs are fine. I'm not gonna suck all the fun and convenience out of the game just because of the godawful wisp, dante, and wannabe-speedvas I meet.
While I agree that they shouldn't be able to target you through doors or walls this is 100% on the person who just stood there while the beam charged up and didn't bother to move. All they had to do was not stand still once the beam started. Just slide to the left.
Lua rescue
Sortie spy
Mobile defense sortie with radiation modifier
But these are predictable, and relatively few. The problem here it that it adds to this "grieffer - able" mission pool all the defense and mobile defense missions
Correct, it is on them and it's still not acceptable on DE's part.
Yes having bad players can reduce how well a mission goes, but you shouldn't *fail it in a few seconds* just cause a new/afk/just texting for a few seconds player was on the objective
They should probably work this out so it doesn't do damage to objectives at all... I can easily imagine one of the lasers going off on a target while following a moving player that doesn't even know there's one behind them. Wrong place wrong time wrong target sorta thing.
This green laser can be a huge problem if you were accidentally trying to run away from it and if you run into mission objective like in Defense, Mobile Defense or Hijack and the laser following you and destroyed the mission objective.
People really are saying “skill issue” when it wasn’t even OP who stood still on the objective but the Hildryn. How do people not think it is an issue when all it takes is 1 random teammate to fail the entire mission for everyone else? And I don’t mind anti-AFK, but this ain’t it
There's no reason for the beam to be able to harm defense targets. 11 years later they should understand shitty player will do shitty things and troll.
I feel like these eximus wouldn't be bad at all if we had some kind of tell. Arson and blitz eximus shout and you know a wave/blast is coming from THAT ONE eximus.
With jade eximus there's no line of sight to the enemy. You don't know which one is targetting you because they can do so from behind pillars and WITHOUT BEING ON FULL ALERT LEVEL. I've had them target me when the enemy didn't even know where the fuck I was. I've had them target me alone in a room with no visible eximus from the door whatsoever. You basically just get fucked by a random laser that moves and does too much damage for it to be worth emptying a full clip on the orb that spawns it.
Also nothing else in the starchart deletes defense targets like this so of course no one is going to be always looking at its health bar. By the time hildryn notices the target is dying faster than herself she might be stuck mid-animation
Jade beams are a terrible design. The only reason some people have entertained it so far is because it "poses a challenge".
Extreme nuisance/annoyance isn't a challenge.
After all these years of problems specifically with defence missions and the many many times they've had to change mechanics and scalings, to still have issues like this... it's ridiculous. They already have a solution to it in the new ascension mission too. Let the defence point respawn after a hefty downtime hell even make that round reset as punishment. It's time to change defence missions
Reading some of the hot-ass takes in here... this is why, as a newer player, I've just accepted that 70% of the game is off-limits to me. I play solo, and don't have the ability to do many of the basic starmap levels on my own.
It sucks, but cooperative games like this are supposed to be cooperative, this hostile mindset of "If you play this game, YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN PAD MY KILLBOARD" is a garbage ass way to play anything.
I have 3 kids, a disabled spouse, and minor family stuff pops up frequently enough that I come back to my corpse or a failed mission 2-3 times a day. And hey, that's okay with me, shit happens. But me being a human with a life shouldn't cost everyone else the mission, even by accident.
So, I just keep playing solo, and probably always will. I'll never get to endgame, or have the really awesome stuff I see in videos. I can live with that. Heaven forbid I play games and not be a no-lifing neckbeard covered in cheeto dust in my mom's basement. Message received; I'll just go back to farming Isolation Vaults, hunting Eidolons, and rep grinding for the bubble gun...
While I do agree that eximus abilities probably shouldn't damage objective but considering your teammate:
1. Went AFK on an objective
2. Didn't react to the beam startup sound
3. Didn't shoot the beam down after it appeared
I'm just gonna call skill issue here. They made an anti AFK mechanic and it's doing what it's supposed to do. Just don't AFK on objectives and you'll be golden, aye?
While I completely agree with you, I still think it's a pretty harsh punishment, he made the entire team lose due to his own mistake.
I've found myself dying to the jade eximus for standing a hot 3 seconds while I was changing the music I was listening or responding someone's message on another tab. I know that's fully on me, but since jade eximus have been added, the times I died doing these things went from like 1 of every 20 times to basically 4 out of every 5 times. And that's kind of annoying
Yeah but going from full health on the objective to failure in 5 seconds feels a bit harsh. I’d prefer if the punishment for a player going afk was the player going down, rather than complete failure for the whole team faster than anyone would be capable of reacting to
I dunno why people are even disagreeing with you, there's zero reason for this attack to be able to interact with anything that isn't a player
It's not like the defence objective was AFK, the Hildryn was, and I didn't see you complain about the *teammate* getting zapped...
Meanwhile people are too busy salivating over the thought of an anti-AFK mechanic to realise this is a far, far more effective *griefing* mechanic. Is AFKing missions even a problem in 2024 Warframe? Feels like I'm in /r/guildwars2 over 'ere
The OP didn't AFK on the objective. However, because of one AFK, the entire party has to suffer. Since Warframe **still** doesn't have a kick option, this is just not right.
🎶Goldeneyeeee, I found his weakness
Goldeneye, he'll do what I please
Goldeneye, no time for sweetness
But a bitter kiss will bring him to his kneeeeees🎶
The whole team shouldn't be punished for the mistake of one player standing on the objective for a few seconds. The player was AFK, not the defense objective or anyone else, let the player who made the mistake be the one punished for it
Alternatively you could always run Loki so you could just switch teleport them off but... No
This happed to me in a Defense on the same map. We're nuking the piss out anything with in los like good Tenno do and then during the final round the objective gets nuked by a Jade Eximus from "some where" and thats that, we fail.
All of this Anti AFK talk is good and all, but DE forgot that 90% of their player base are extreme casuals who cant be bothered to constantly move around and pay attention to everything around them
Lot of people speaking about "skill issue" when the problem is way more about potential trolling and ridiculous damage to objectives. The beam should not increase damage done on any defendable objectives (defence/mobile defence objectives, rescue targets, excavators, etc...). That Hildryn should have died before the objective.
Defence targets need damage gating. The damage they receive per second should be capped.
They also need some form of massive damage "shield" at 50/25% to give a few sec to deal with the problem.
I mean eximus units are psychic anyways.
If you’re invisible and using melee/silent weapons the energy drain puddles will still be summoned directly under you so the lack of LoS checks aren’t new, just devastating when it’s a jade beam over an objective.
Given the whole schtick of the beams is ramping damage forcing you to move, I do think it’s an oversight in game design (and potentially lore) that they can even damage non living targets with it.
This might explain how the pod thing in the last phase of ascension occasionally just goes pop.
Thankfully the only real impact I’ve seen this have is it stays still for a bit so lengthens your clear time rather than straight up “ha ha, you lose” like it would be with every other defense objective.
The fact that DE have given the players strict line of sight (which is still bugged to hell) but these guys can hit you without even being in the same room! I was playing solo as Dante and had about 30k overguard, then the green light hits me and there is nobody around, literally no red triangles on my mini map, a few seconds later I’m dead. Just seems a bit excessive to have the ‘rules for me but not for thee’ active.
Defense objectives should use scaling damage attenuation like bosses. It should take a certain number of hits to dome it instead of a raw HP value that isn't really readable anyway. Maybe a health percentage instead?
Solution: Eximus special abilities shouldn't damage stationary mission objectives.
Defense targets are difficult to defend, especially at higher levels, but typically players at that level in the game don't farm those missions unless they're prepared for the challenge and know what they're getting into. Making every aspect of the game super easy by tuning down difficult parts only encourages more afk farming, something that DE and the community has been trying to push back against for years.
No reason to completely overhaul a long-standing mechanic because of something released a few days ago.
Fix the new mechanic to play nice with the pre-existing one, not vice versa.
DE has always disliked AFK and if this is another tool against it, that's hilarious.
I just hope DE doesn't nerf the light into being pathetic. It has 3 methods of counter play, it should be allowed to do serious damage.
I think the only thing that perhaps needs tuning is the heat proc - just for newer players who don’t have access to Operator or Rolling guard are pretty stuck if they’re just a little bit too slow (which could be due to ping or platform played on) then they’re pretty stuck.
But otherwise yeah I agree - it’s not like Jade Eximus are common outside of the current event anyway, they won’t be neaaaarly as bad when they’re down to normal eximus spawn rates
It is actually a pretty good counter for AFKers and people with afk builds with frames like Vauban or Saryn that just push two buttons and do nothing more in some missions.
BUT this feels really extreme.
First of all, it punishes players that go afk even for no more than 10 seconds, just any real life thing that requires the slightest bit of attention can get you killed ingame, changing music on another tab, responding a message, or anything along the lines.
Second, even if it's a no brainer to not stand on the objective, this mechanic can make an entire team lose due to just 1 AFKing, making the afk griefing much easier and more punishing FOR THE REST OF THE TEAM.
And last, I just saw another post on this sub talking about eximus units just straight up ignoring defensive habilities, while the player can't do the same with them. That made me instantly think of the lvl 30+ solo defense with 0 damage on the objective riven challenge, that I've failed so many times due to a fire eximus ignoring Frost's shield and things like that.
While I absolutely love the addition of this new Jade Eximus, I don't feel like it makes the game more challenging, but rather a pain in the ahh most of the times, still think it might not need to be "addressed" by the devs, maybe just a little tweak and give the community time to adapt to them
It gets worse when there are situations where you are not AFK but forced to stand in a spot and can’t move, yet the beam can spawn above you and burn you down. Had that happen to me on Deimos while grabbing the bait from the device for a vault run. Cleared all infested around me with none in sight or on the radar. As soon as I pressed the button to grab it, a jade eximus spawned out of sight and radar to dropped a beam on me.
Couldn’t move because I was stuck in the animation and once that finished I was downed instantly. It spawned on the other side of the mountain with no line of sight or notion I was in the area and I only realized that once I panned around to see the green infestation lurching towards me after I was downed.
Team based game. That's typically a hazard of these. Warframe is, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how often and thoroughly one player can carry a whole team.
> Warframe is, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how often and thoroughly one player can carry a whole team.
Warframe is also, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how little toxicity exists.
If you want that to die, then sure, let one player ruin the mission for everyone else. That won't result in flaming or anything, nope!
they should just make it so jade eximus beams don't affect defense obj's and just keep it as good ol' fashioned enemy guns and physical attacks.
we don't have to overcomplicate how the jade light functions any further, just disable it's damage on defense obj's. I would also suggest defense abilities actually deflecting/nullifying the beam as well, but the former should be applied first because you'd be screwed if no one on the team didn't bring some sort of barrier frame in defense modes.
I dislike it because it kind of messes up texting on consoles where you sit still for a while. Sure I could go into the operator and circumvent this but I feel like that's more of a bandaid solution and you shouldn't rely on knowing certain game mechanics just to be able to text safely
its like back in the day when you could hurt your self with your own explosive weapons. people would radiation proc themselves and kill the defense target. hope DE eventually fixes this- even if by accident
Honestly in general eximus abilities should not be damaging the defense objectives, this happens when your defending against infested and venomous eximus start spawning
in particular I had an piblic arbitration run that was going well that we had to end because a drone protected venomous eximus got near the objective and drained it of its health to near death
To me, this seems like a great reason to change how eximus abilities interact with Warframe abilities. We should be able to block this kind of stuff with Frost and Limbo bubbles.
Granted, this still leaves room for griefing in missions where someone doesn't bring a frame that can defend the objective, so maybe they should just add a gating mechanic to objectives that prevents them from losing a certain percentage of health too quickly.
I am convinced that the Jade Eximus are fine, but that Heat Procs are overtuned
Since the update whenever I get heatprocced it’s a near guaranteed death even with my Wisp Motes active
Honestly? Remove the heat proc from jade eximis and give them back their pre nerf DPS.
make a momentary lapse in attention less punishing as long as you actually move out of the damn death ray.
I like the jade eximus. I like that they bop players real easy real fast. But if they're going to introduce such a thing it absolutely should NOT hurt defense targets ever. And for that matter, radiated warframes shouldn't either.
I'm going to be honest with you I've never thought that standing on the defense objective was a bad idea until now like it never crossed my mind now though yeah I can completely see it
Thing is, I actually like the new Jade Eximus. I like how I have to actually be aware. I have to actually pay attention or my squishier frames especially will get shredded.
But this can have potential for griefing lobbies. So either make their damage not ramp up on objectives or just make objectives immune. Because if a malicious player wants they basically have friendly fire for objectives with this.
Shame we can't have nice things, basically.
100% agree, every defend or fail mission objective should have immunity to things that bypass LoS checks.
The code is there, they just didn’t apply it for eximus unit abilities.
Stalker does not hit defense units that can fail an objective, niches similarly (last I checked) do not make you fail objectives either.
Eximus units need that sort of coding and everything will be much more palatable.
I have a theory that their jade lights do True Damage. The way they cut through anything with ease even before they have time to build up damage as they were told to do. Those lights near instant kill from the get-go.
My two cents on the subject: Cetus missions where you have to defend the drone. The enemies shoot from over 100m (I pinged one of the enemies that was shooting the drone and it was 115m) and no way I can kill them from that distance, so I either leave the drone unprotected to go there and kill the enemie, or let them keep shooting and pray it doesn't kill the drone. Defense missions in WF really need a rework.
Give some kind of limited "revives" per mission or something.
i think they should make objectives immune to the jade's ray of death xD, i mean clearly the mechanic was introduced as a way of combat the afk people so it shouldn't interfere with quest objectives
I was playing nyx for lols and trying some fashion and imagine my surprise when I pop my 4 randomly and start absorbing all that Jade light damage and unleashing it back on them 🤣
Defense objectives in particular have always been garbage at being able to take a few hits at high levels. The defense objective on Akkad can tank an entire wave of the infestation, compared to this scenario where the objective has *even more health and shields*, I think a great fix for this kind of thing would be to just change all objectives to the same health, and filter enemy hits so they deal a certain portion of the objectives health at any time. There is no scenario where the defense objective should be one-shot by ANY enemy.
the level 9999 Thrax with Overguard coming to 1 shot my Defense target in circuit
That needs to be an actual meme
It should be the tom and Jerry meme where tom opens the door
Kuva lich with a Zarr:
Even worse: Kuva Lich with any radiation attack, making us accidentally destroy our own objective
>Defense objectives in particular have always been garbage Thats it. Thats the whole problem. Their HP should be doubled, their Armor tuned 10 or 20% (if they even have Armor) and their HP recovery per second needs to be a **PERCENTAGE** not a FLAT amount. A single Eximus can half the HP of the Objective and it will take it like 2 minutes to fully recover, because the healing is a flat amount. It should be 5% HP healed per second at all times or something like that.
The damage the take should be % hp capped so no enemy literally one shots it and at every milestone it gets more health or faster regen
>The damage the take should be % hp capped Yeah, that too
Why i hate high level excavation like damn
This won't fix it. The beam gets more powerful the more it hits. In the clip, the beams is hitting 2 targets at once, being powered up 2x as fast as it should be. The REAL problem is the afk Frame on top of the objective. They knew that Jade Light Eximus spawns are high, and they stand ON TOP of what they should be protecting, KNOWING the beam tracks. Stupidity at it's finest right there.
We've been doing it for over a decade and thousands of hours. It will take months or more for the habit to die, if ever (unless DE fixes this first, hopefully)
I like what they’re doing with the Pod Objective in the Ascension game mode. It doesn’t get destroyed if it takes too much damage. Instead, it halts the mission until the shields are fully recharged. It would make defense missions way less stressful and Excavation missions much less frustrating in higher levels like Duviri Circuit.
This is a very practical way to do it. This way they can bring over power carrier enemies and have players grab em and toss em into the defense point and recharge the shields as well. It gives something else to balance while feeding into the loop of kill -> charge -> kill. I think that completing a wave should trigger a fast regen on the objective as well as a 25% burst of health, this way we can regenerate the massive snowballing losses that some eximus cause. Additionally, I think there should be a threshold for completing the objective with more than 50% health left or for never letting the objective die so it goes into the recharge state. You can tie it to a bonus reward or drop chance boost for the mission or something. Crucially you don't punish the player for mistakes, instead reward skillful play. I think these changes would make defense a very fun objective type. Defense is my second favorite mission type but loading into a high tier defense makes me stressed as hell bc all it takes is some dweebus camping the objective with their "afk build" and they sit there while it takes 3 fkn hours to complete.
Defense objectives should get damage attenuation similar to how Archons damage calculations work. 😯
I see too many people saying "don't afk on the objective!" Like the person is just unaware, but what if they do it on purpose? This is an extremely effective grieffing tool and will absolutely be used as such, let's see how those opinions change when people start trolling on purpose
This happens in Sorties with rad hazards too btw.
Or Sortie Spy.
Thats why i do them solo. Theres a few mission i do solo simply cus its faster or i can garuntee the win. Most assassinates, sabatoge, and spys are done solo cus im not having some dumbass ruin it for me
Yeah every spy mission for a sortie in multiplayer has like a 70% chance of failing due to dumbasses, It’s frustrating.
My first sortie I sent us all to orbit because I didn't realize I couldn't use ciphers. After that I completely avoided spy sorties until I got Ivara and put the auto hack ability from the helminth on her.
Obligatory "it's fine, just shoot the orb" comment
Well, I understand you're point and I think specifically for defense objectives it should have SOME retention. However, I feel the need to play devil's advocate and say that if the objective is losing chunks of health in the span of a few seconds, you would probably want to look at it and thusly see/shoot the pillar. Keeping an eye on the health every couple of seconds is paramount to defense. Which is one of many reasons, among spawn, time and map designs causing slow rounds, as to why I'm not a huge fan of defense to begin with.
Mmmmm. Naw. Like, yeah maybe if you're doing super-hardcore-sweatlord-levelcap difficulty. But in normal missions? Nah. You can see in the video the objective is at 100%. They're on wave 3. They were winning this handily. It was a milk run. Then all of a sudden it fails. 100% to 0% in four seconds. Even in the "few seconds" you should be looking at the objective health (which, in missions where you're winning handily I reject that notion entirely) you can see the sheer amount of damage that the beam does. Even if you're checking every three seconds, that puts the objective at 50% health. And in the next second it's dead. If you're checking every two seconds, the objective is at 80%, and in the next two seconds it's dead. So even if you're maintaining constant vigilance on the healthbar, there's no way you can spot that happening and have enough time to react.
Welp, end goal is getting shit fixed so honestly? Whatever gets the job done. Maybe a few rude trolls is all we need for that.
I mean you can always just shoot the light if someone uses it to grief
Ya its going to be a problem, but the easy solution is just bring a frame that can kill the map. I main a volt with terrify for armored enemies I can clear a map faster than the beam kills the point
Thankfully warframe likes to actually punish griefers. Report them and lets see how many are devestated they lost a mr 20 account for trolling
This will probably get buried under all the comments here but allow me to clarify a few things. 1. The damage is perfectly fine on players and as I state IN THE POST I absolutely welcome a unit punishing AFK players 2. My problem is not that it punishes AFK players, it’s that the punishment ends the game for everyone who’s actually playing properly 3. Im not the hyldryn? I know how to play around the eximus? Im genuinely confused at how someone else going AFK is MY “skill issue”. 4. Just to be absolutely clear: if the hyldryn went down as punishment for being afk, maybe even a noticeable amount of damage to the objective to encourage players to rally back to the area, that would’ve been fine. It’s the fact that the game ended faster than I could even notice the health bar depleting that’s bothering me. 5. No “just subsume” is not a good counterpoint
Imagine doing a 20+ wave defense and someone decides to be a little mischievous and stand on top of the objective on purpose to fuck with you People missed the point so bad in this post I may start trolling on purpose just to REALLY get the point across
What’s annoying is that standing on top of the objective used to be the ideal position. You could see around it more easily, you become a target from all sides reducing damage to the target, you’re in a central position to cast abilities, and you’re close enough to melee units that sneak past gunplay. Similar to how thrax were modified to not one shot the circuit defense target, I do expect they’ll adjust the speed at which this kills defense targets. Clearly they understood it was a problem, because they made the ascension defense target invincible.
>What’s annoying is that standing on top of the objective used to be the ideal position. It was very effective as Zephyr as you could block like 99% of damage
Good to know other Zephyrs did this too. Now we may be doing more harm than good
Not if you bring Silence, as you should be these days. Zephyr's only real threats are eximus, press the button to turn their bullshit off.
It's definitely changed the meta.
Yeah on several maps I would regularly go Mesa and stand on top of the objective and just turn and shoot with my 4. Super effective but it’s a bit risky nowadays if I can’t instakill everyone.
The temptation is real, but unless you know who these dinguses are and can follow them around in game, you're just hurting randos who don't deserve it. I think these dinguses will see the light the first time it happens to them, don't you worry.
Keep trying to party with the devs on stream and then do it to them. That might get it fixed.
Lol, I'm glad the devs of warframe are also warframe players, means they can see issues from both sides and notice real problems sooner. It's not like games where devs are just employees doing their job and don't notice an issue until it's too late and tue community has really blown up over it.
I think it's pretty funny that they are Warframe players but they're not necessarily*good* at the game. They're excellent game devs and definitely enjoy the game they've made, but every dev stream that they show gameplay for a new frame or gamemode is obvious that they've got invincibility and such turned on, even in game modes that normally wouldn't require it 😂
Invincibility is really helpful when you are operating in a way to highlight other mechanics. Typical survivability methods are not conductive to showcasing new assets. Also, if they need to focus on the audience, focusing on survival becomes tedious, much more simple for all purposes to activate god mode to highlight things.
I just played a defense alert where two Jades both stood on the defense target, after I kindly asked them to not stand on it cuz the jade light shreds it one of them moved a couple steps to the side but the 2nd dude either didn't notice the message or stood on it to spite me (they weren't afking, they were using abilities). We still won but yeah ppl do be quite peculiar.
Being able to lose already earned rewards should be unacceptable, the fact if an enemy gets in 1 good hit on the defense objective I lose everything not just end the mission is why I don't do longer mission runs when I actually would like to just vibe in a mission for fun.
Sweaty tryhards in this thread going around acting like 4 seconds is enough time to notice the objective being demolish and then react to it. "IT'S A BIG GREEN LASER JUST SHOOT THE ORB" my dude, there are enemies all over the map, do you really expect everyone to keep their screen trained on the objective the whole time? Naw. Also in the video the orb is in the rail. So like. Not even sure if it could have been shot even if you did notice it. Keep up the good fight, my man.
And that was just with one. If a couple come in from the flanks and Green Laser the objective it'll be over a lot quicker than that.
I think DE should make it that only the player targeted gets damaged or that objectives get less damage from jade light
The amount of trolls here is why I won't trust anyone here for game balancing and feedback.
That hildryn may not even be afk. When I play her I will often find a spot to turn on all her skills and pop out as kido and run around shooting things while hildryn sits there as a CC beacon.
People disagreeing with you are crazy delusional. Yes, staying AFK is bad, yadda yadda, but this kind of interaction where other players can't do shit to react (seriously, 5 seconds and it's an instant mission failure!!!) either shouldn't happen or the damage should be massively downgraded against defense targets. When eximus got reworked and we got Blitz eating through defense targets health bar like popcorn, people were (rightfully) angry and begged DE to either nerf them or buff the target's stats. They listened and defense was finally doable, especially in Circuit. We need to cause the same kind of uproar against Jade Eximus.
I mentioned this same exact thing in discord and basically everyone told me to A. Not AFK (i was not the one getting hit by the laser) B. Just shoot the laser LMAO skill issue. This would be fair but why do i have to babysit other players because they decide to afk near the objective? And if I dont we all lose the game. I dont even know. I really like the new units and im all for difficulty but shredding objectives in a couple of seconds because of one person just feels bad.
Honestly, often it feels like the community is against anything that makes it easier for the player to play the game without having to worry about something bs. I remember when they added Kuva Liches to the game, and back then, all it took was one press of X to finish off the pre-lich enemy, meaning you had to be careful to not accidentally finish it off if the preview showed a weapon you didn't want. Now, the problem with this was that if you were used to doing finishers on enemies as you attacked them, the downed Lich looks just like an enemy prone to a finisher, meaning that it was entirely too easy to accidentally kill the Lich on reflex, locking you into an undesirable weapon very likely (I did it at least 3 times myself and because of it, i stopped doing finishers and even today i have to actively think about doing one). I remember some people were asking for the Lich finisher to be a "hold X for Y seconds to kill" input, and you could not believe how many people were so vehemently against such a simple and small change that would help QoL so tremendously with very little negative consequences for the average user. It was all "Just git gud" and "Your own fault for not being more careful", which is so absurd considering the game rewards you for doing finishers, meaning it's actively conditioning you to do them whenever possible, making this mistake less about being unskilled, and more about you inevitably falling to muscle memory. I'm just glad it got changed, and i can only imagine how these people reacted to the change. I'm actually curious if there's someone here who was angry that it got changed to be safer.
I just feel like sharin my opinions here, so here I go: Point 1 - I agree with this wholly. JL Eximus is a great unit in terms of AFK-checking the players, being able to deal severe damage to them when left unchecked. They can oneshot my Wukong, which I've explicitly built for extreme durability; if that doesn't speak for itself then IDK what does. (Additional note: I sat in one of the rays to see how much damage Defy would accumulate, and I easily reached into tens of millions) Points 2 & 4 - These are also agreeable. Nobody wants to lose a Defense or Mob.Def mission before they can react because someone had to go AFK on the spot and then a JL Eximus pops up and just straight shreds the objective cause it just decided to target the guy who had to go AFK for whatever reason. Points 3 & 5 - I don't understand why people are telling you this? If someone has to go AFK for any reason in a game, that does not qualify as a 'skill issue' - especially when the objective is burned down faster than you could react to it - and 'just subsume' does not change the root problem at play here whatsoever.
Just subsume your teammates should work fine
To be fair, it would be better if we had multiple checks for fail states (like Ascension does, but with an actual fail state other than getting out of res). We wouldn't be having this conversation if the defense objective recovered at least once like the Vestigial thingie does. This is a good conversation, despite the fact that what happened to you was entirely on said Hildryn player.
Yeah "skill issue" blah blah, in what other way can another players skill issue cause YOU to fail in this game? This is absolutely a problem that needs addressing.
Radiation sorties have been around for a while. This would be annoying as hell though, imagine you’re just cracking relics and you have a pretty good haul going, then on wave 25 or 30 a Jade laser just targets your animation-locked teammate standing on the objective. Bye bye relic drops.
I agree completely. My genuine concerns with this isnt that it’s too strong, it’s the ability it gives the toxic players for griefing. Anyone who is targeted by the jade eximus who wants to fail the mission for everyone now can. I hate that there is toxic players in this community but it is a sad fact. I’m assuming they are going to remove its damage on defense targets when they realize this. Side note, don’t just say play solo. If an enemy is forcing the entire player base to play solo it’s a problem with the enemy.
>Side note, don’t just say play solo. Playing solo was never the solution for dealing with griefers unless you're pressed for time and need something done right and fast, then it is a genuine option. Play public, report griefers, purge them out of the community. Genuine mistakes happen but a player getting reported for a mistake once or twice is unlikely to face consequences, a player that keeps getting reported for making the same obvious, mission failing, mistake over and over is either resistant to learning or doing it on purpose.
So THATS why I lost that one defense. And it was the Octavia's fault too who had a complete meltdown in the chat after and said he'd write a ticket and report the rest of the squad xdd
People all talk about "anti-afk", since when stoping for 3 seconds is being afk? You stop to respond a message and you are dead, you want to write something to squad, you are dead, wanna use Mesa's 4 for more than 4 seconds, you are dead. I think its a cool mechanic but the damage is off the charts. I played Belly of the Beast on SP for a day and it looked like a green laser hydra, you shot 1 laser and 2 more would appear, i think i spent more time looking up and destroying lasers than playing the actual mission.
my experience also
tbh yes especially on less tanky frames, I play volt and after my 4 I need to instantly bulletjump across the map otherwhise I will just die because the shield heal from 4 just isnt enough to keep up with the laser, and its the same for everything I want to do. Want to use a shiled and grab it? than you better move fast right after It becuase there is 3 lasers comming
What I've been finding more bizarre about this beam is that it punishes you for ever trying to stop moving. Warframes sometimes need to do a long animation and their placement can't always be remedied by, say, jump sliding while the cast happens. If you want to pick up something on the ground, there's a chance you'll inevitably take some damage. Reviving someone might either mean you will take damage or your warframe will be shred as soon as you return to it for being under the light.
when the damage was bugged i got killed multiple times just trying to waypoint a kuria. no way to know what enemy should i take revenge on too.
Sometimes i switch tabs to change podcast or stream im listening and it can tike 5 and sometimes 20 seconds. Same with songs. But that doesnt mean im not playin and infact i usually tell others that "i need to change something afk for couple seconds". Havent played any defense missions with jade eximuses but so far it looks miserable in bad way
Imo it shouldn't move. Maybe they could make it bigger but it should not move or damage objectives, that's my suggestion
DE on Warframe abilities: "Oh no no no NO" you can NOT hit enemies that are not in your view ! DE on eximus: "Yeah so this cool laser will target the player across the walls"
And the eximus will run away from you to hide in a lot of my cases
I swear the Tenno in this section screaming "SKILL ISSUE" and "DESERVED FOR AFK" forget that OP WAS NOT THE AFK ONE. Objectives in this game can be paperthin, but we know the threats. We can see them. Most require LoS. The jade eximus is blasting the objective (thanks to the afk one) from a different realm, all the while the team is engaging with the game and looked away for a sec. By the time the objective HP really dropped, it was too late for anyone on a different side of the map to intervene. This was not a Demolyst, this was not a Hemocyte or something else that is a boss unit, it's a god damn eximus, a random elite enemy. So, in a mission a player can, either by malice or distraction instantly end the mission for you in the time you look away, no warnings because that's a "elite random enemy" and the objective doesn't give any warning sound off. Imagine if I could simply void dash the capture target off the map and he doesn't get respawned, but instead is deleted, mission failed. If i could actively add NEGATIVE progress onto an interception console. That would be horrible, that would be dumb. I'm not playing league of legends, i don't play Warframe to be at the mercy of some random guy. This has to be changed, it has to, or the incursion of trolling and frustration would be catastrophic for the game's health.
> I swear the Tenno in this section screaming "SKILL ISSUE" and "DESERVED FOR AFK" forget that OP WAS NOT THE AFK ONE. man, even if they *were*, it's five fucking seconds. nothing should destroy a defense objective that fast on its own.
Playing pubs is going to be annoying for a while, de just gave all the griefers the perfect tool.
I thought we collectively had a conversation about why being AFK on top of the objective is bad back in what... 2015?
Can you repeat said conversation here please?
“Afking on defense objective is bad”
M-kay!
You're AFK on the objective *right now*, aren't you?
*Throws away lunch I am eating* NOPE!
 N-o-pe *nom nom nom*
Enemies split aggro between you and the objective based on something I can't remember. If you are on the objective, aggro aimed at you is now also aimed at the objective
Well there's also the consideration that Blitz Eximus explicitly don't target Defense objectives because they do so much damage. So a Blitz will only wreck the Defense target if you're standing too close to it, I imagine Jade Eximus come with the same logic.
Probably. I've only ever seen Jade Eximus destroy something because the beam was chasing a player
Is this a new thing, because pretty sure when Undercroft was introduced they would go for defense objectives with their blast wave
That got implemented with Echoes of Duviri. So almost a year ago but still after Duviri's initial launch.
man I jope noone will use this to troll on your runs!
five seconds though. like, that's not even enough time for most people to type a message in chat. that's getting distracted for a moment when a dog suddenly jumps on your lap. etc, etc, etc, it's entirely unreasonable for one single entity to kill a defense objective that fast.
Mfw I am afk after standing on top of the objective and stop to respond to my teammates for 5 seconds.
Afk, yes, obviously, but never heard anyone complain about being on top of objectives prior to now.
The OP's video literally proving how unfair this new eximus is: while trying to "punish" the afk, but also involving everyone together. It doesn't solve anything, just makes it worse. Meanwhile the majority is saying: "skill issue", "yep I love the new anti-agk mechanic". Bro is the problem the afk? Kick them out asap instead of this bs. It's completely unnecessary and we already had 2 different eximus that targeted you with damaging bubbles. Rocket League for example doesn't even wait 1 minute to kick afk players. 1.Nothing stops the afks to be dead the entire mission while you complete it for them. Or respawn right at the end. 2.Neither them running some immortal frame like Revenant and doesn't helping for any reason. I know those things because I've been getting those afks on my squads, especially the first case. I got some prints and clips from a guy just running around on sp circuit, not that would change anything. Still I'm right here having my invisible operator taking dmg while reviving a squad mate, then instantly being dead when going back to frame, resulting on two people down.
Shoot, I don't mind afkers when I'm playing something like Octavia or some other frame that either plays the game for me mostly or clears the entire map cause those players don't have anything to do.
I lost Scimitar Engines to this...
One of the most frustrating threads I’ve seen on here Just play solo Just subsume silence Just stand on the platform the whole time and babysit Just get better teammates. Try discord! Simple answer is that it does less damage to the objective. The same try hards saying this shit are the ones that complained about circle killing netracells. You *liking* that boring ass content that you HAVE to play solo since those bad teammates drove you off? This will be patched though. I can’t imagine DE will keep that in once the fails start rolling in. If not, this will be the first post of many…
Thanks for using your brain, i swear those tryhards want to foster a state of perpetual sweat, anger and griefing. The damage is exponential, these jade lights will fry anything given enough time on ANY difficulty. I get being absolutely NUKED on netracells, because i chose to go to tryhard city, i get lategame scaling and having to be on your toes. But warframe usually is a pretty chill game allowing players to dictate their own pace. This unit dictates panic pace any time there's a defense objective, since one player can end it all for you.
The subsume one is funny. Why, in *any* universe, should I have to sacrifice an often build-defining mechanic such as Helminth, **purely because of a singular enemy type.** It's ridiculous that 1 Eximus type can suddenly have the entire game revolve around it. Not only does its damage need to be reduced, but also make it impossible to damage objective HP to prevent griefing.
i hate the "just play solo" like bruh over half the missions I play on pubs are fine. I'm not gonna suck all the fun and convenience out of the game just because of the godawful wisp, dante, and wannabe-speedvas I meet.
I’m hoping this will force them to make our healing an defense abilities work on defense points again.
While I agree that they shouldn't be able to target you through doors or walls this is 100% on the person who just stood there while the beam charged up and didn't bother to move. All they had to do was not stand still once the beam started. Just slide to the left.
Slide to the right.
Criss cross!
Crisscross! Crisscross!
Cha Cha real smooth! 🕺
In what other way can another players actions cause you to fail? This is absolutely an issue that needs addressing.
Layer 8 issuesust be dealt with on a layer 8 level.
Lua rescue Sortie spy Mobile defense sortie with radiation modifier But these are predictable, and relatively few. The problem here it that it adds to this "grieffer - able" mission pool all the defense and mobile defense missions
Correct, it is on them and it's still not acceptable on DE's part. Yes having bad players can reduce how well a mission goes, but you shouldn't *fail it in a few seconds* just cause a new/afk/just texting for a few seconds player was on the objective
They should probably work this out so it doesn't do damage to objectives at all... I can easily imagine one of the lasers going off on a target while following a moving player that doesn't even know there's one behind them. Wrong place wrong time wrong target sorta thing.
Operative defense, mobile defense or hijack missions are about to be HELL on wheels.
This has too much grief potential. It shouldnt do damage to defense targets
This green laser can be a huge problem if you were accidentally trying to run away from it and if you run into mission objective like in Defense, Mobile Defense or Hijack and the laser following you and destroyed the mission objective.
People really are saying “skill issue” when it wasn’t even OP who stood still on the objective but the Hildryn. How do people not think it is an issue when all it takes is 1 random teammate to fail the entire mission for everyone else? And I don’t mind anti-AFK, but this ain’t it
It's Blitz/Volatile Eximus all over again. I don't get why defense objectives can't just be immune and untargetable to Eximus.
There's no reason for the beam to be able to harm defense targets. 11 years later they should understand shitty player will do shitty things and troll.
I feel like these eximus wouldn't be bad at all if we had some kind of tell. Arson and blitz eximus shout and you know a wave/blast is coming from THAT ONE eximus. With jade eximus there's no line of sight to the enemy. You don't know which one is targetting you because they can do so from behind pillars and WITHOUT BEING ON FULL ALERT LEVEL. I've had them target me when the enemy didn't even know where the fuck I was. I've had them target me alone in a room with no visible eximus from the door whatsoever. You basically just get fucked by a random laser that moves and does too much damage for it to be worth emptying a full clip on the orb that spawns it. Also nothing else in the starchart deletes defense targets like this so of course no one is going to be always looking at its health bar. By the time hildryn notices the target is dying faster than herself she might be stuck mid-animation
Does DE even playtest their stuff? LMAOOOOOOO
Jade beams are a terrible design. The only reason some people have entertained it so far is because it "poses a challenge". Extreme nuisance/annoyance isn't a challenge.
I swear to god msot of the people in this comment thread can read fuck all.
"Jade Eximus beams no longer damage defense objectives" would be an okay fix (I think)
After all these years of problems specifically with defence missions and the many many times they've had to change mechanics and scalings, to still have issues like this... it's ridiculous. They already have a solution to it in the new ascension mission too. Let the defence point respawn after a hefty downtime hell even make that round reset as punishment. It's time to change defence missions
you ask how these mistakes get repeated I just point to the glassdoor reviews.
What if the actual problem was the outdated design of defense missions?
Reading some of the hot-ass takes in here... this is why, as a newer player, I've just accepted that 70% of the game is off-limits to me. I play solo, and don't have the ability to do many of the basic starmap levels on my own. It sucks, but cooperative games like this are supposed to be cooperative, this hostile mindset of "If you play this game, YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN PAD MY KILLBOARD" is a garbage ass way to play anything. I have 3 kids, a disabled spouse, and minor family stuff pops up frequently enough that I come back to my corpse or a failed mission 2-3 times a day. And hey, that's okay with me, shit happens. But me being a human with a life shouldn't cost everyone else the mission, even by accident. So, I just keep playing solo, and probably always will. I'll never get to endgame, or have the really awesome stuff I see in videos. I can live with that. Heaven forbid I play games and not be a no-lifing neckbeard covered in cheeto dust in my mom's basement. Message received; I'll just go back to farming Isolation Vaults, hunting Eidolons, and rep grinding for the bubble gun...
While I do agree that eximus abilities probably shouldn't damage objective but considering your teammate: 1. Went AFK on an objective 2. Didn't react to the beam startup sound 3. Didn't shoot the beam down after it appeared I'm just gonna call skill issue here. They made an anti AFK mechanic and it's doing what it's supposed to do. Just don't AFK on objectives and you'll be golden, aye?
While I completely agree with you, I still think it's a pretty harsh punishment, he made the entire team lose due to his own mistake. I've found myself dying to the jade eximus for standing a hot 3 seconds while I was changing the music I was listening or responding someone's message on another tab. I know that's fully on me, but since jade eximus have been added, the times I died doing these things went from like 1 of every 20 times to basically 4 out of every 5 times. And that's kind of annoying
Yeah but going from full health on the objective to failure in 5 seconds feels a bit harsh. I’d prefer if the punishment for a player going afk was the player going down, rather than complete failure for the whole team faster than anyone would be capable of reacting to
I dunno why people are even disagreeing with you, there's zero reason for this attack to be able to interact with anything that isn't a player It's not like the defence objective was AFK, the Hildryn was, and I didn't see you complain about the *teammate* getting zapped... Meanwhile people are too busy salivating over the thought of an anti-AFK mechanic to realise this is a far, far more effective *griefing* mechanic. Is AFKing missions even a problem in 2024 Warframe? Feels like I'm in /r/guildwars2 over 'ere
The OP didn't AFK on the objective. However, because of one AFK, the entire party has to suffer. Since Warframe **still** doesn't have a kick option, this is just not right.
🎶Goldeneyeeee, I found his weakness Goldeneye, he'll do what I please Goldeneye, no time for sweetness But a bitter kiss will bring him to his kneeeeees🎶
so you want people to be able to troll objectives by killing it with the jade eximus ability. yeah that will work out well.
The whole team shouldn't be punished for the mistake of one player standing on the objective for a few seconds. The player was AFK, not the defense objective or anyone else, let the player who made the mistake be the one punished for it Alternatively you could always run Loki so you could just switch teleport them off but... No
Smooth brain take. I shouldn't fail a whole mission because someone tabbed out to check a message for 5 seconds.
Is that Mahoraga?
It is indeed
This happed to me in a Defense on the same map. We're nuking the piss out anything with in los like good Tenno do and then during the final round the objective gets nuked by a Jade Eximus from "some where" and thats that, we fail.
All of this Anti AFK talk is good and all, but DE forgot that 90% of their player base are extreme casuals who cant be bothered to constantly move around and pay attention to everything around them
Lot of people speaking about "skill issue" when the problem is way more about potential trolling and ridiculous damage to objectives. The beam should not increase damage done on any defendable objectives (defence/mobile defence objectives, rescue targets, excavators, etc...). That Hildryn should have died before the objective.
Completely unrelated but, is that a mahoraga cosplay?
I’m glad so many people are pointing it out lol
Defence targets need damage gating. The damage they receive per second should be capped. They also need some form of massive damage "shield" at 50/25% to give a few sec to deal with the problem.
I mean eximus units are psychic anyways. If you’re invisible and using melee/silent weapons the energy drain puddles will still be summoned directly under you so the lack of LoS checks aren’t new, just devastating when it’s a jade beam over an objective. Given the whole schtick of the beams is ramping damage forcing you to move, I do think it’s an oversight in game design (and potentially lore) that they can even damage non living targets with it. This might explain how the pod thing in the last phase of ascension occasionally just goes pop. Thankfully the only real impact I’ve seen this have is it stays still for a bit so lengthens your clear time rather than straight up “ha ha, you lose” like it would be with every other defense objective.
The fact that DE have given the players strict line of sight (which is still bugged to hell) but these guys can hit you without even being in the same room! I was playing solo as Dante and had about 30k overguard, then the green light hits me and there is nobody around, literally no red triangles on my mini map, a few seconds later I’m dead. Just seems a bit excessive to have the ‘rules for me but not for thee’ active.
Defense objectives should use scaling damage attenuation like bosses. It should take a certain number of hits to dome it instead of a raw HP value that isn't really readable anyway. Maybe a health percentage instead?
DE, please give these eximus a banshee level nerf
I lost count on how many times DE added something without thinking what might happen, and had to address them in a hotfix.
THis just highlights that defense target health and armor need an overhaul. Shit should do % damage and % health recovery.
Just happened to me today though I was trippin
Solution: Eximus special abilities shouldn't damage stationary mission objectives. Defense targets are difficult to defend, especially at higher levels, but typically players at that level in the game don't farm those missions unless they're prepared for the challenge and know what they're getting into. Making every aspect of the game super easy by tuning down difficult parts only encourages more afk farming, something that DE and the community has been trying to push back against for years. No reason to completely overhaul a long-standing mechanic because of something released a few days ago. Fix the new mechanic to play nice with the pre-existing one, not vice versa.
Just make it only damage players.
My issue is when the top of the laser clips through the ceiling, so you can’t actually destroy the laser
If this is the new anti-AFK system, then I'm all for it.
Should fuck up afk players, not objectives. The latter screws over the team more than the AFKer.
It can also be used to troll.
One player AFKing shouldn't force three others to fail the mission.
DE has always disliked AFK and if this is another tool against it, that's hilarious. I just hope DE doesn't nerf the light into being pathetic. It has 3 methods of counter play, it should be allowed to do serious damage.
I think the only thing that perhaps needs tuning is the heat proc - just for newer players who don’t have access to Operator or Rolling guard are pretty stuck if they’re just a little bit too slow (which could be due to ping or platform played on) then they’re pretty stuck. But otherwise yeah I agree - it’s not like Jade Eximus are common outside of the current event anyway, they won’t be neaaaarly as bad when they’re down to normal eximus spawn rates
\*new griefing tool.
If our skills can't be allowed to work without LOS, why can the enemies?
I think the beam would still work as anti AFK measure if it didn't damage objectives, only players standing on it
It is actually a pretty good counter for AFKers and people with afk builds with frames like Vauban or Saryn that just push two buttons and do nothing more in some missions. BUT this feels really extreme. First of all, it punishes players that go afk even for no more than 10 seconds, just any real life thing that requires the slightest bit of attention can get you killed ingame, changing music on another tab, responding a message, or anything along the lines. Second, even if it's a no brainer to not stand on the objective, this mechanic can make an entire team lose due to just 1 AFKing, making the afk griefing much easier and more punishing FOR THE REST OF THE TEAM. And last, I just saw another post on this sub talking about eximus units just straight up ignoring defensive habilities, while the player can't do the same with them. That made me instantly think of the lvl 30+ solo defense with 0 damage on the objective riven challenge, that I've failed so many times due to a fire eximus ignoring Frost's shield and things like that. While I absolutely love the addition of this new Jade Eximus, I don't feel like it makes the game more challenging, but rather a pain in the ahh most of the times, still think it might not need to be "addressed" by the devs, maybe just a little tweak and give the community time to adapt to them
hell, you can't even reply to a message with more than 3 words before this beams in.
It gets worse when there are situations where you are not AFK but forced to stand in a spot and can’t move, yet the beam can spawn above you and burn you down. Had that happen to me on Deimos while grabbing the bait from the device for a vault run. Cleared all infested around me with none in sight or on the radar. As soon as I pressed the button to grab it, a jade eximus spawned out of sight and radar to dropped a beam on me. Couldn’t move because I was stuck in the animation and once that finished I was downed instantly. It spawned on the other side of the mountain with no line of sight or notion I was in the area and I only realized that once I panned around to see the green infestation lurching towards me after I was downed.
Sooooo am I allowed to say skill issue here? I feel like I am
am I allowed to grief all your def missions with this? I feel like I am.
One player's skill issues shouldn't force three other players to fail.
Forget skill issue. This is ripe for griefing potential from trolls.
Why does no one on this thread seem to understand this? I expected better from "one of the best communities in gaming".
becouse it is not one of the best comms. it was, but now it is way worse and has been astroturfed to hell.
Team based game. That's typically a hazard of these. Warframe is, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how often and thoroughly one player can carry a whole team.
> Warframe is, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how often and thoroughly one player can carry a whole team. Warframe is also, in my personal experience at least, unusual in how little toxicity exists. If you want that to die, then sure, let one player ruin the mission for everyone else. That won't result in flaming or anything, nope!
Sure, as long as you realize the player who is complaining here had zero skill issue.
Yeah, i think i will be playing my silence Xaku a bit more now.
The only thing that truly gets put of hand this bad in warframe history is...... *HOLD UP!! GLASS RESONANCE!!"
Had this happen to is and the guy who was standing on the defense started boaming everyone for not protecting it while he was who caused it
Oh... they can damage objectives? I hoped that wasn't the case, so people couldn't troll.
Griefers can now grief on defense and probably excavation to fail or extend the run.
they should just make it so jade eximus beams don't affect defense obj's and just keep it as good ol' fashioned enemy guns and physical attacks. we don't have to overcomplicate how the jade light functions any further, just disable it's damage on defense obj's. I would also suggest defense abilities actually deflecting/nullifying the beam as well, but the former should be applied first because you'd be screwed if no one on the team didn't bring some sort of barrier frame in defense modes.
Easy, DE just need to code it that the Beam won't target mission relevant objectives or exclude the damage from Jade Light from Mission Objectives.
I dislike it because it kind of messes up texting on consoles where you sit still for a while. Sure I could go into the operator and circumvent this but I feel like that's more of a bandaid solution and you shouldn't rely on knowing certain game mechanics just to be able to text safely
Does Gara with mending splinters help heal objectives or does she just provide DMG mitigation ?
I will throw my Vauban boost pads and throw these people off the cliff *I miss my pinball trampoline..
its like back in the day when you could hurt your self with your own explosive weapons. people would radiation proc themselves and kill the defense target. hope DE eventually fixes this- even if by accident
EDA Defense gonna be most miserable experience
None of the eximus attacks should hit objectives. Blast one shots are bs and you don’t place the objective you can’t play around it.
Skill issue man, should have played solo. /s
I feel like this is designed to anti-afk instead of a game feature.....
Honestly in general eximus abilities should not be damaging the defense objectives, this happens when your defending against infested and venomous eximus start spawning in particular I had an piblic arbitration run that was going well that we had to end because a drone protected venomous eximus got near the objective and drained it of its health to near death
To me, this seems like a great reason to change how eximus abilities interact with Warframe abilities. We should be able to block this kind of stuff with Frost and Limbo bubbles. Granted, this still leaves room for griefing in missions where someone doesn't bring a frame that can defend the objective, so maybe they should just add a gating mechanic to objectives that prevents them from losing a certain percentage of health too quickly.
I am convinced that the Jade Eximus are fine, but that Heat Procs are overtuned Since the update whenever I get heatprocced it’s a near guaranteed death even with my Wisp Motes active
Honestly? Remove the heat proc from jade eximis and give them back their pre nerf DPS. make a momentary lapse in attention less punishing as long as you actually move out of the damn death ray.
I like the jade eximus. I like that they bop players real easy real fast. But if they're going to introduce such a thing it absolutely should NOT hurt defense targets ever. And for that matter, radiated warframes shouldn't either.
I'm going to be honest with you I've never thought that standing on the defense objective was a bad idea until now like it never crossed my mind now though yeah I can completely see it
No lie I used the purple eximus but jade eximus are cunts
Thing is, I actually like the new Jade Eximus. I like how I have to actually be aware. I have to actually pay attention or my squishier frames especially will get shredded. But this can have potential for griefing lobbies. So either make their damage not ramp up on objectives or just make objectives immune. Because if a malicious player wants they basically have friendly fire for objectives with this. Shame we can't have nice things, basically.
100% agree, every defend or fail mission objective should have immunity to things that bypass LoS checks. The code is there, they just didn’t apply it for eximus unit abilities. Stalker does not hit defense units that can fail an objective, niches similarly (last I checked) do not make you fail objectives either. Eximus units need that sort of coding and everything will be much more palatable.
The jade beams can be broken if you shoot at their top, if you can’t find the eximus then you can do that to buy time.
I have a theory that their jade lights do True Damage. The way they cut through anything with ease even before they have time to build up damage as they were told to do. Those lights near instant kill from the get-go.
It's just like when Narmer units came out with the one shot charge attack. Made every protect target annoying.
Honestly I hope they remove the Jade light eximus or make them SUPER rare and nerf them
My two cents on the subject: Cetus missions where you have to defend the drone. The enemies shoot from over 100m (I pinged one of the enemies that was shooting the drone and it was 115m) and no way I can kill them from that distance, so I either leave the drone unprotected to go there and kill the enemie, or let them keep shooting and pray it doesn't kill the drone. Defense missions in WF really need a rework. Give some kind of limited "revives" per mission or something.
i think they should make objectives immune to the jade's ray of death xD, i mean clearly the mechanic was introduced as a way of combat the afk people so it shouldn't interfere with quest objectives
I almost had this happen to me because Zephyr’s 3 can fully shield the objective from all damage, but it’s can’t deflect the jade piss beam
I was playing nyx for lols and trying some fashion and imagine my surprise when I pop my 4 randomly and start absorbing all that Jade light damage and unleashing it back on them 🤣