Because this game is not about being balanced and strategic, it has become ADHD simulator.
Hold W and drive as fast as possible towards the enemy, click to delete, repeat.
No strategy, no skill, no thinking.
"You should be able to shoot missiles out of the sky, if your vehicle doesn't have a commander mg then you brought the wrong one, if you're in an open top it's your own fault, if you move after spawning it's your fault for cancelling spawn protection, if you don't move after spawning it's your own fault for staying still, if you want fewer aircraft in ground battles you need to bring more aircraft..."
Players who abuse the broken CAS mechanic are not capable of rational thought. "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway" - Shannon Alder.
Yeah classic, "CAS isn't OP because you should just spawn aa, if planes are out of aa range you should spawn a plane, don't bring tanks into ground battles only bring planes and aa something something skill issue"
Yeah, it's hilarious how CAS apologists used to be like "just spawn SPAA", and, now that not even that helps, they are like "just spawn a fighter".
Like... good sir, if I wanted to play air battles I would have joined, well, Air Battles, since planes, unlike tanks, have their own mode to do their own thing.
If I am joining Ground Battles it's because I fucking want to play fucking ground vehicles, not play Air RB 2.0.
And then they hit you with the "muh combined arms"... what exactly is "combined" about being forced to only play planes because your ground vehicles are anihilated by said planes!?
"Don't want to have your tanks exterminated by planes? Just don't play tanks and play planes instead lol, easy."
Yeah that's the standard progression:
"Just play AA"
"Bring CAP planes"
"Planes are OP in real life so there"
"It's combined arse"
"Go play WoT"
They can't admit that they aren't good, they're just abusing a broken mechanic and that there is an easy fix.
I love lower to mid teir for shooting down CAS but they hate it.
No markers so they can barely see you coming and I've literally had them cry that I should go play air if I want to shoot down planes.
Like take your own advice and go play air if you wana bomb so much
Precisely. I hate how I keep outplaying and defeating my rivals on the ground... only for them to jump into an OP flying thing and kill me from 20km away without me having any chance to do anything about it just because they managed to stand on a circle for a few seconds before I blew them up. Even if "just spawn SPAA/CAP" was a thing, it would not be a solution to prevent me from losing my tank to revenge-bombing; it would merely be a retaliatory measure after I've already been blown to bits.
More than 40% of my deaths in "Ground" Battles are to C\*S and H\*licopters. I actually calculated it a couple of months ago, by counting all of my deaths over the course of 100 battles. If I recall correctly, 42 of my deaths were to flying shit, and, most of the times, by enemies I had previously destroyed on the ground.
War Thunder is one of the few games where outplaying and defeating your rivals fair and square is not rewarded, but punished; by giving said rivals an easy way to essentially get a free revenge-kill on you via C\*S/helicopters.
It is hilariously easy to farm the entirety of BRs 3.3-7.7 playing as Russia, because the entire playstyle is just:
>spawn tank
>get 1-2 kills/assists, cap a point, maybe scout a few people
>die
>spawn Pe-8
>profit
I can literally do this in a 6.7 Russia lineup on repeat and get a guaranteed 5+ kills per match. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah people can sometimes spawn a fully laden fighter bomber without getting a kill or assist. It's quite weird to see. Like spotting counts as an assist so I dunno how they can get enough sp. Guess it's from taking damage.
Most the time it's one kill or one assist.
Saw some dude at br 5 get 1 kill then proceed to get 8 kills with 2 CAS spawns.
AA needs to be made ridiculously easy to use so "revenge" AA becomes a thing. I already rage spawn AA but it's half skill half luck at lower tiers to shoot anything down outside of 800m. Obviously easier if it's head on.
Oh I definitely do revenge aa, especially when I got revenge cas bombed. Revenge bombers are braindead, so I just slap them out of air with my 35mm easily
I'm sure they'd be quite mad if the game was a bit more reallistic. SAM nowadays reach several hundred km, and radar is done by AWACS or a battery of radar spread everywhere. Enjoy having to spawn your CAS and getting killed from several 100+km away missiles.
You know why? Because people constantly complain about the wrong reasons. Look at the amount of complaining before Su25SM3 and after. Even though kh38 is strictly worse then what you could already do with better planes people will constantly say "the only thing that counters pantsir".
Problems of warthunder are that on average players have played way less of other games and are less experienced in understand the mechanics in a vacuum and can only cling to things that are caused by being bad.
If planes are so op I wanna see YOU how you deal with constant Grippens, Mirages, Mig-29s, Su-27s, Pantsirs, ITOs and helis with TY-90.
Fact is, playing CAS is not easy at all because 100 things are going on are more like - after you and while all that you also have to deal with the extremely inconsistent AGMs, GBUs and other mechanics. If you you Avenger, would for ONCE try what is TOP TIER CAS gameplay really like, we'd see a lot less bitch post from you.
And before you start having mental breakdown because I play CAS, I also enjoy playing MBTs, IFVs, ATGM carries, helicopters and especially SPAAs. I know right, it is absolutely crazy someone likes to play all parts of the game.
Fly at 10km high, can't be targeted by ground AA but you can still bomb them with laser guided ammo. GG easy. Only fighters are a threat to you and most people don't play these, they enjoy more joining the slaughter.
Helicopters are also pretty bad at dealing with planes, they're using only IR tracking. It never locks on anything.
GG easy. You just proved you don't know anything what you're talking about. Only the biggest retards still do spaceclimbing since that just makes you extremely easy to spot and hit by S1s and all VT-1 platforms since at 10km alt you are practically brick. At that alt you will also die easily to SARHs, especially to R27ERs. Space climbing hasn't been meta for like 1.5 years now.
That's why I have a few replays with GBU killing 5-6 people in spawn I suppose, or just because it is incredibly easy to evade missiles guided on a 2D screen with a plane flying in 3D. There's a good reason why IRL they are not manually guided, still we have to aim manually.
And what aircraft are you playing ? The only "top tier" SPAA that has trouble with that is ADATS because it's missiles are so fucking dogshit past like 6km. ADATs in general is uncapable of dealing with any new CAS and should get replaced by something more competitive. Even the Type81 is much better than ADATS.
FlaRakRad. Anything else to say ? Also I mostly play 10.0. I'm sure you're gonna tell me how you handle any plane with Roland 3 ?
Once again as an AA player we have to aim in 2D, you can maneuver in 3D.
Man playing cas is so easy I played 15+0 chess game while flying in ground RB and got 5 kills before game ended then I proceeded to blunder my chess game.
Grinding it is also easy if you are not brain dead, I play mostly britain where early planes are good but from 8.0ish they are completly out of meta and you have to actualy think and its not that hard, of course later planes are again all pretty much the same as others but 99% of players at top tier premium grinded tech tree so you might not know this strugle.
Cas grind for most players is simply: bomb bases die repeat or if they don't get killed go back to airfield repeat. Early cas is ground targets and some are good as fighter too. Bomber line you ask? Just go to random sim batlle and see most players have days in bombers on sim and next to nothing in other plane types.
Top tier cas ahh yes over 20km range missile that is out of range of AA also why bother about fighters since fighters need to get closer to you aka in range of your AA. The thing is russia has best spaa maybe china because of range so they have better chance to take down some cas and helis.
I play Air RB ground RB and Naval AB/RB and cas is not balanced in ground RB. Ships at least have some range on AA and can survive some hits(I don't have top tier ships so cas there is more mid WW2-early cold war)
And I can agree that taking fighter is good way to kill cas but only in low to late mid tier.
Also AA and air progression are not on the same level at first with slow bi planes AA is effective later between 3.7 - 7.7 AA is much less effective since planes are much faster and only thing that changes in AA is bigger rounds, more guns or more armor. Then again 8.0ish where you have radar AA again planes will be crushed until planes don't get thermal, super zoom and long range missiles. That also applys to helis. If you die in top tier cas it is your own stupidity
I'd say "play AW" as well. Not only it has decent PvE mode to live in armored power fantasy of pressing W and shooting stuff, it also has such abstract concepts like Ariete with actual armor on the front.
Pretty sure KH-29T only has a range of 13km with the effective lock distance being less than 10 most of the time. At least it is for me..,
The mavericks lock range is also not 23km, on the top planes I can lock it at 20km on a point and around 13km on a moving target.
I just had to correct you, but yes spaa needs a buff, especially the low tier ones
So you're saying CAS ammo are bad when they lock only at 6km but finds AA incredibly strong that can't lock things before 4km ?
KA-52 also got some 10km things you know.
Brain issue on your side mah dude. As my teacher said, when you're alone pretending to be right against everyone, you're either a genius or stupid. And you're not a genius my man.
I’d love a game mode with playable Patriots and HARMs…
But most players probably wouldn’t. Unfortunately.
I’d love to see the CAS-vs-AA argument when AA has a 100+km range, on appropriately-sized maps, where flying effective CAS requires Wild Weasels.
Right, let me just use my 8 missiles to shoot down bombs and AGMs, then I guess I'll just J out when they run me out of ammunition. Fucking aircraft come strapped with more ordnance than ground based SPAA.
Yeah unfortunately. "Cas is op so I use it it's gaijins fault". Same argument as they let you put the shopping cart anywhere so why not put it anywhere in the parking lot? Common decency.
On that note with the MG shooting down missiles I haven't been able to do it since they made it harder to do a year ago or so. Very very rarely do I sometimes shoot one down with a main gun round but autocannons just impact the missile and do nothing. MGs are a joke against them now. A far cry compared to when the mechanic was first introduced.
>Same argument as they let you put the shopping cart anywhere so why not put it anywhere in the parking lot?
Because you won’t get your coin back this way lmao.
It’s like so many things in game though.
Why shouldn’t I kill steal?
Why should I help this team mate out?
Why shouldn’t I just one spawn and quit?
Why shouldn’t I spawn camp?
Should long range CAS ever have been added? Nope, not at all. At least not until everyone got amazing SPAAs and or equal CAS but they gotta please them RU/US mains. Otherwise what was the point of grinding/buying whatever OP jet?
>Players who abuse the broken CAS mechanic are not capable of rational thought
Hey man I abuse it and still think it needs rebalancing. Shots broken as hell.
People always cry about realism, too, but its a videogame; if these kind of mechanics and changes were added to other games, it would ruin their appeal and player numbers. Balancing must take priority over realism, but obviously, Gaijin doesn't care, and we are suckers for still playing this shit and buying/grinding.
The most glaring example is the Pantsir being added while their is no equal for any other nation in the game. Sure, most nations irl don't have a similar AA capability in a single truck, but why does one nation get to benefit from its amazing capabilities while others do not? A good pantsir can deny airspace while its cas can oppress the battlefield. Of course, there are other examples on other nations, but still.
As someone with ADHD, how dare you? I mean, it's completely accurate but... but how dare you!
It's not like we're that easily distracted and need constant dopamine hits OOOH LOOK TURM IS ON SALE
You cant even see the missiles unless you look right at a plane, which you cant normally see either, through your x16 gunsight right as it launches the damn thing. Which is a little difficult if that jet is literally in orbit above your elevation angle.
> it has become ADHD simulator
It's really just a race to the bottom across all forms of entertainment. Dopamine fast, next thing, dopamine, next thing, dopamine etc etc. It's the most effective way to hold peoples attention. The problem is that once you get locked into that cycle you don't have the patience for anything else that takes time to be rewarding. It started a long time ago. Stuff like hit markers in shooters are little micro rewards. Even little things in Warthunder like the reward for taking off are playing off this dynamic.
Yes, but it is easy to shoot them down.
It would be a better game without unrealistically accurate CAS, but I don’t find it obnoxious at low tiers. They mostly ruin heavy vehicles (Maus) or light vehicles without any AA capability (PT-76)
The reason why I first spawn my R3 and my M247 sometimes, just purely to ruin a bunch of cas players day. Doing my part, even if cas is more balanced at those brs.
I mostly agree with your statement, but there is one thing I would like to point out: your comment only applies to top tier. Low and mid tier? You'd get absolutely fucking wiped if you tried to run and gun lmao.
You've obviously not played low tier then because this is exactly what I see: M22, puma, concept 3, as42, SARC...
Even medium tanks, players will just rush straight down the middle, they might pause to shoot, but they never use cover or defilade, they drive on straight lines over crests and skylines... No skill, no strategy, just drive.
How can someone not play low tier exactly? About 2/3 of my hours are in low and mid tier due to boredom. I can count on my hands the number of times a guy rushing in the middle of the field managed to survive more than 20 seconds. I suggest you do an experiment: boot up the game, take a piece of paper, go into BR 1 and 7 and try to rush right in the middle of the map until you reach more than 150m inside the enemy half of the territory. Note how many kills you get before getting flanked from 2 sides
This this this.
Last night I had 3 games in the Firefly. 4-0 5-0 12-0.
All I did was hold a basic overwatch position. People have 0 patience and 0 awareness. I wasn’t even well hidden. They just hold w and shoot the first thing they see.
Because money
Notice the lack of premium SPAA and how a lot of premium planes are ground pounders of have ground attack capabilites of some sort... Yeah, is as simple and as bullshit as it sounds
My man, premium SPAAs are not a thing because everyone is allergic to SPAAs lol.
They have no incentive to make SPAAs premiums because they'd literally make negative money on them.
People is so allergic to SPAA because they give less rewards for a plane kill than a tank on tank kill, SPAA's get punished for literally doing what they are designed to do...
That, and the fact that Gaijin has a hard on for screwing radar SPAA on a monthly basis... Currently at least the ASRAD is fucked when it comes to pick up enemy targets
The Stormer has been up and down so often that it's entirely random if it's going to work or not the next day
etc...
I'm not sure about the negative money tho, since they would go the ctrl+c ctrl+v route and just add a premium ADATS or premium 2S6 and call it day, won't be much money thrown in to that tbh
>People is so allergic to SPAA because they give less rewards for a plane kill than a tank on tank kill, SPAA's get punished for literally doing what they are designed to do...
It is, in fact, the opposite, [plane kills give more than tank on tank kills](https://new.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bd0048/killing_planes_in_grb_gives_more_rewards_than/).
In fact you win less points in battle for destroying aircrafts which are always one hit kills (no multiple rewards for hitting the thing 20 times) and basically gives less than the 200 points for tank destroyed.
Those points decide your ranking in a game, and affects how much SL and RP you get. As such a single rat player enjoying his Fox with a 3 kill at the beginning of the game then leaving will get more points than an SPAA player protecting his team for the whole game that will have destroyed 3 planes.
Not really fair at all.
Really ? I thought there were bonus gain from being first second ... And so on ? Doesn't remove the rest though. Shooting blindly at tanks gives quite a lot of money compared to OSing a plane.
No, he’s not. Time in battle is irrelevant to mission score. Activity is correlated with mission score but they are entirely separate. Activity is not based on mission score.
My man.
The reason premiums exist is to drive popularity into a certain tree or to double down on an already popular tree.
Neither are going to be achieved with a premium SPAA. And even then, if a premium SPAA was released (in another universe), you'd all be saying shit like "omg Gaijin is pay-walling good SPAA".
SPAAs are not getting punished lol, I do not know what weed you are smoking but find a better dealer.
In top tier, yes, if it so happens that you get a pilot that knows the limits of SAM's weaponry (which is rare in itself, most will just dart towards the battlefield), you are fucked. That is never going to change because CAS and SAMs are always on edge.
In lower tiers, mainly near the early-jet era and below, farming planes is one of the easiest way to farm up RP because there is just a shit ton of US planes to farm. Yes their reward is lower (which should see a little bump), but you get double if not triple the amount of planes in mid-high tiers, mainly against US. And hell, if you are playing US, you have .50s on everything so you can even take out low flying Sukhois/ILs/Tu-2s etc etc.
Don't try to push this shitty idea that playing SPAA is punishing, when in reality, you'll earn almost the same amount from planes and tanks, solely because of how abundant CAS is in the middle-high tiers.
They could at least give us some copy paste SPAAs for GE in the tech tree. It takes minimum development time, won’t get in the way of their big pack premiums, and would look very tempting to a lot of people going back to the hanger after being killed by CAS.
I’d buy some premium SPAAs in a heat beat if they were decent. There are so many nations and trees in this game, and the grind is so abhorrent, I don’t always have competitive SPAA to fit in my lineup. I don’t think I’m in the minority, it takes long enough to go down just one line, and many players beeline for a specific vehicle and neglect other options.
Me too but the problem is, at least at top tier, that no more vehicles could change this. There's not much else than what we have at hand in terms of short range SAMs. After ADATS, Rolands, Pantsir, the level ups are Patriots, MAMBA, S200/300/400 : all of which are made to fight cruise missiles and planes at 100+km range. None of these are well suited for the game.
Radars are also pretty bad right now, but same thing, most radars are not good alone but works in a big network of AA radars, including AWACS, to spot anything moving several hundred km away. Something that can't be in game.
Unless Gaijin decides to nerf planes to account for everything ground AA should have but can't have, AA is going to lose almost everytime...
Same, even if it was just mid tier. If I want to jump start a new nation, it'd be nice to have SPAA that's at least vaguely viable for the BR.
I know there's some premium tanks that can help out AA with mounted MGs, but it isn't going to be as effective as many SPAAs.
So long as they're not like that one weird Russian premium SPAA. 5 rounds, with a 6.5 (or 5 aced) sec reload.
Yeah... aside from the fact AA choices are limited (especially at higher brs) its basically bot tier gameplay especially at higher brs where many aa dont have guns or the pantsir which cant shoot down or sideways (hehe funni -1 degrees).
Lower br spaa can at least hunt tanks but many higher tier aa are sit in spawn and pray an aircraft spawns
Honestly, War Thunder should have never gone past 90s tech. Now we have all those modern vechicles based upon dubious specs, because real deal is usually top secret. And it results in total mess.
I affraid its not even passed WW2, the flak shells (aka the one with * mark) supposed to exploded about a while after left the barrel and the range can be adjusted. They should allowed all shells with self-destruct at least in WW2 to have that feature. In ground combat it will allowed the playstyle of multi-layered flak (its a common strategies used up to Vietnam war) to intercept CAS.
My condolences, if you have a tt lineup at 11.3 I would suggest playing 10.3 until your able to get 11.7 tanks paired with 12.7 jets. You'll be grouped with less 11.3 aims and clickbait one deaths. But still suffer because Usa is not equipped to deal with Russia Germany and Sweden combined most games.
Gaijin knows brainrot sells, if you please the dumb audience they will buy that premium plane/helicopter, the more they enable the brainrot the more these individuals will buy
I fell in love with war thunder because I love military vehicles. I fell out of love with war thunder because I love strategy and wt lacks it. So I fell in love with arma because it has the strategy and military vehicles i love.
War thunder to me now is basically just spend like 10-15 minutes in a tank that you like shooting at other tanks you may or may not like. I don't take it so seriously anymore
Both the Kh-29 and the Mavericks are slow. At 20+km range they take a LONG time to hit their targets, and mavericks need a direct hit to kill (and As/Bs/Ds need a good direct hit (because it’s HEAT).
However the new Kh-38s are FAST, and have an extremely long range. They can also hit anywhere near the target and kill (150kg HE warhead).
Kh-29 goes mach 1.8, literally DOUBLE a maverick's mach 0.9. The Kh-38 is faster at mach 2.2 but that's a much smaller difference from the 29. Kh-29 also has a *larger* HE warhead (186.24kg TNT equiv. vs the Kh-38's 152kg TNT equiv.). What truly makes the 38's so much more annoying to fight is having inertial guidance, a ballistic path instead of a straight path, and thermal capability.
* Best Air to air missile (R27ER) that came out in the 1990's around the same time as the US Amraam A variant. Unmatched for a year+ now.
* Best Air to ground CAS in the game. SU-25sm3 can lob ATGM's 40km away from their airfield. All while protected by....
* The best SPAA in the game. Pantsir out ranges other AA's not by just a bit, but by an incredible amount. Making it easy for the Su25m3 to orbit its airfield with impunity.
* Best helicopters in game. KA-52/50 survivability is unmatched, and their ATGM's have the same power creep as the R-27ER compared to its counterparts. There is a reason you never see Apache's in high tier and you always see KA-52's.
But the SU-27 cant turn 2 degrees more than it should and the F-15 is 12.3 so Russia suffers.
Can’t even fly nap of the earth in the Apache to avoid SPAA since you’ll just get swatted by an Su-25 from outside your pilot’s and gunner’s visual range, to boot.
I swear if you still think that the Kamovs are the best helicopters, you are doing lines.
The reason why you do not see as much Apaches as Kamovs is because Russia does not have fucking Apaches, and Kamovs have a VERY good bundle that they come with, so of course they are going to be more popular when their premium bundle is one of the best in the store.
But combat wise, the Kamovs have LONG fallen off. The 10km Vikhrs are dogshit because they require you to stay still and maintain lock which means that anyone can take you out easily. The Apaches with Hellfires (or Hellfires in general) are much better due to the fact that you can be COMPLETELY covered by hills and STILL launch Hellfires.
Even the Z-19s are better because they are so nimble that it is impossible to crash them, meaning you can be 6km away from SPAA but still dodge them easily.
Stop living in the past and accept that the Kamovs just aren't that good.
Comparing Vikhrs to R-27ERs is also absolutely insane.
I don't know in which universe you live in, but the KA52 is still the top tier meta helicopter in GRB, Sim and Squadron Battles.
Ask any competent heli player if they prefer to fly a KA52 or an Apache/any other Hellfire slinger/UHT and 9 out of 10 will say they prefer the KA52, the 1 that says otherwise still hasn't unlocked the KA52.
Saying KA52 has fallen is off is absurd.
Squadron Battles are irrelevant and so is Sim because every helicopter is broken in sim.
In actual GRB, the Kamov is a flying target practice in the shape of a bus. The more proxy slingers get added, the shittier the Kamovs become.
They have long fallen off from their prime and the only people that still think so are the ones that have PTSD from them.
You forgot the part where Russia has the worst fighters of top tier and also some of the worst tanks. The Western fire and forget helicopters are usually more effective than Russian ones.
The worst tanks lmao ?? They have by far the best lineup at top tier and the only good f&f heli is the german tiger and israeli black hawk which are not good platforms at all
The french and Italian helicopters use spikes lmfao, you have the time to make a tea cup, drink it, and then grab a coffee before it hits. And the other part is just blatantly wrong, they have some of the best IFV, light tanks and SAMs at the tier as well as having a lot of very capable tanks
So spikes are bad? Then why did you mention the Israeli black hawk? And still Russian tanks are not good and neither are the support vehicles. SAMs are good yes but that's about it.
War Thunder isn't a game anymore. Its a vehicle for channeling the frustration of its users into purchases with the hope to alleviate that frustration. It is designed to not be fun.
Gaijin totally forgot about 1/3 of an effective AA defense, which is long range AA. People don't make Patriots and SA-2s because they felt like it. They built them to take down long range and high flying targets. Add these into the game, spawn CAS on the airfield, and force them to fly low if they want to avoid long range AA, or have to deal with them if they fly high. That and reduce Fighter cost.
The pessimist in me says they didn’t forget, they purposefully neglect it as a means of either artificially boosting player activity by forcing people to grind out ground AND air trees, and/or spend money via Premium Accounts and/or purchasing premium aircraft to participate.
That is still multi-vehicle system requiring separate command and control vehicle as well separate radar station(s).
Now could you fire Sidewinders like you fire Stingers, waiting for seeker to pick up something? Probably. AMRAAMs I guess also could be fired "dumb" ie with ARH seeker on and "fly in this direction until you find something".
Then, going by good ol wikipedia - early 9X retains warhead and motor of 9M albeit with reduced air drag. So range wise, it will be mild? improvement over MIM-72 used by Chaparrals, as these missiles are based on 9D, common ancestor with 9L/9M missiles as well. MIM-72G already can lock and track jets in head on past 6-8km, range where missile is already running out of juice to reach target and if it takes any evasive actions, missile is unlikely to hit. Flare rejection of Stinger seeker is already plenty good and it takes Su-25SM3 ejaculating half of its flare payload to decoy these.
The point is, they added best armanet for the aircraft, giving them FnF ammunition but we're still stuck with SACLOS SPAA, that stand alone in the middle of the field with no cover?
The game was never designed with this in mind and the devs no longer care to do that big of a rework/overhaul on anything.
They just added the aircraft and weaponry, now working to maintain the illusion of balance))))
This is 70% if the reason I don't play top tier, CAS is basically invoulnerable; doubly so if you're not playing Russia.
The other 30% of my reason is getting spawn killed/trapped like 3 minutes into the game because some POS is hiding behind a hill 400m from your spawn
its because war thunder is a dogshit game that hasnt been updated in over a decade. the only game mode is Chalk Circle and the only maps available after all this time are either arenas designed to pit WW2 and 1950s tanks against each other, or "new" maps that are just wide open fields with a town in the middle. so you're all bunched together no matter what driving into some fuckass killzone waiting to get obliterated in a bombing raid by an F-111 or sniped by a Vihkrs or turbofucked by a Frogfoot.
Gaijin likely knew the implications of adding modern weapons to a game designed around WWII vehicles but then realized they could make a lot of money from it. So they added a square peg in to a round hole and now we’ve been stuck with it for years.
Top tier has never been balanced. So when annoying mechanics like this exist as soon as you become victim to it either leave match & do another lineup or just not play past a be that will have you interacting with the annoying mechanic.
*Laughs in Arcade*
On a real CAS is annoying and needs improvement.
I think maybe if each team started with electronic warfare jammers that could prevent guided munitions could help. These could be destroyed, but if they have a set location a team can protect them with SPAA to try and limit CAS to unguided munitions.
Might be a dumb idea/unrealistic but it gives an incentive to play SPAA while keeping CAS somewhat relevant (if they get destroyed guided munitions would work just fine)
Heli's at BR 7.7-9.0 has an effective range of ~4 km. Most SPAA at that BR range has a range of ~2km. It's why I'm looking forward to BR 9.3 even if it means uptiering to 10.3.
The same Devs who think 9.0 jets should fight all aspect missiles, the same devs who think a early ww2 DD should fight the Prinz Eugen etc.
Warthunder is a great idea been run by idiots, the only reason the gamr survives is because of the lack of decent competition, not because its good.
I used to genuinely enjoy and love the game, but the longer I've played and the 'balance' ideas the devs have put in make me hate it more and more. Its less like a fun game these days and more like a minimum wage job.
I can count on one hand the amount of CAS that I’d say requires “skill”. CAS is so many leagues above the capabilities of not only tanks, but their supposed “counter” (SPAA). Basically every death in WT you can blame yourself for (excluding volumetric BS, but that’s a bug - not a feature) bad positioning, whiffing shots, overextending, etc, but it is so rare that I’ll be bombed, missiled, or cannoned by a plane and think “oh yeah that’s fair enough”
I love spawning in fighters for the sole purpose of hunting down enemy CAS. It's extremely fun but the SL and RP Rewards for doing it is extremely poor for how valuable your actions are for your team
I would he pretty surprised if stormshadow was added without its American AGM-158A/B/C equivalent. That is, if they ever add some better guided weapons, as in better than laser gbus and the near-neolithic Mavericks that the vast majority of western tech tree vehicles are currently equipped with.
Honestly, it blows my mind that the Russian tech tree has (among others fnf's) a Mach 2.2 IR+IOG FNF with a massive warhead and extreme range while damn near everyone else is still using subsonic mavericks or pgms...
Just want to say, as a person that plays both CAS and SPAA.
I only run when it’s deemed by my personal opinion as “necessary”.
- Our team is overrun and getting pushed back into spawn.
-All zones are captured/they are capturing our one zone for battles.
-There is a group of enemy’s in a strong position that requires CAS.
Those are the main reasons I chose to spawn CAS at least. But also as a person that plays mainly Britain and Israel (with US as basically a lock as a teammate) even with those conditions I still decide not to because the team is either all already in the air.
Side: Playing top tier Israel before getting the APS with the 4M was such a brutal experience. I basically always take out the Black Knight and the 4M if I’m versing Russia to counter the wave of CAS that comes.
A counter argument to this would be to reposition and counter the incoming ordinance but we can't in the current map meta, which favors only MBTs and big SPAAs have no place to go.
Can't speak for top tier ground but one of my favourite activities at 6.7 is spawning in the 6.3 P-51 with no load and just playing air denial the whole game. I suck completely at using gun SPAA so that's my way of getting rid of CAS. People usually don't expect it either, I regularly get 5+ plans kills and since I'm not killing ground targets I often don't get targeted by SPAA.
Very interested to try it out with the F16C or F-15A when I finally get a top tier US tank.
Start playing sim, games are much slower and tactical, no hold W to get deleted, cas is much harder to play with sim controls and no markers, but spaa difficulty stays the same.
Had many maps where i cant even fly outside the 20km pantsir range before i get the "return to battlefield". Mind you, im flying mirage2000.
Good ol' meat grinder in the air and on the ground
I know it's cliche but the only tier this applies to is top tier. Even if you still want your abrams or whatever you can just play 10.0 or so and get the experience it sounds like you want.
the problem is not CAS. The problem is the air spawn + small maps.
Makes the maps bigger and makes plane spawn further away from the battlefield, together with cheaper fighter spawning cost and increase air to air reward to air RB level. I assure you CAS problem will disappear in one day. 99% of air RB player are happy to shot down those skillness CAS player for you all day long.
(We can't now above 10.0, because small maps put us in range of SAM. And we don't have enough time to intercept CAS because of air spawn.)
Are semi-auto guidance AA missiles still absolutely ruined? I quit after gaijin did their "tweak" to their guidance by introducing a crippling wobble to them. Which to my mind really upended any semblance of balance between air and ground interactions.
If your SACLOS SAM isn't a Roland type, it can reliably shoot down even a full barrage of slower missiles (like Mavericks). You might be able to do it with the FlaRakRad too if you spot the missiles from far enough away, not sure tbh.
This doesn't mean you can shoot down the attacking plane, but it does mean you can nullify its CAS effectiveness for a while.
The 25BMs TV missiles don't really get TV though (I've used them and the optic is normal color, not thermal), the zoom is shit and target ID + lock is ass
Idk about the 25T or 25SM3 though
If a pantsir hits you from over 12km you've got no clue how to dodge missiles.
If a pantsir hit you from 16km+ you were literally flying in a straight line with your eyes closed.
Isn’t that a general problem? There is apparently no guarantee that every vehicle should be able to defend itself against absolutely any threat (paper-stone-scissor concept) but you can equally get killed in your spawn by some weird miles away spawn-snipers as you can get killed by the classic 3rd person spawn campers behind some hill without being able to do much about it… the game is basically a free for all zone where whatever lets you succeed makes you right.
There's no *guarantee* that you can defend yourself against any threat, but in ground vs ground if you're skilled enough you can almost always come out on top. "I should have aimed that shot better," "I should have known there was someone watching that corner," etc. look at this, for example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bj6sq5/im_going_to_be_the_reason_the_m5a1_stuart_moves/
whereas with CAS (especially at top tier) there's literally nothing you can do against them if they play intelligently, *even if you play the vehicles specifically designed to counter aircraft*. It's not rock paper scissors, it's rock pistol scissors. All you can do is hide or give up on playing the game you actually want to play (tanks)
The game is so dominated by rat gameplay, 3rd person camping, upranks, the quality of your teammates and getting send in stock tanks against overwhelming odds that the „if you’re skilled enough you can overcome anything“ philosophy appears as wishful thinking. The reality is War Thunder can be a VERY frustrating experience at times and not just because of CAS.
Always keep in mind that you’re not the only skilled player on a server and if two will meet it’s a variety of factors that will decide who will have better chances to come out on top. I’ve had matches where the top players didn’t even leave their bases as they apparently didn’t even knew how to write “playing the objective“ so it’s questionable by which standards you measure skill and successful play in the first place. The claim that CAS would be the sole reason of unfairness and frustration in this game and that a tank vs tank mode would be the recipe for a perfect experience where you only have yourself to blame is ages old but was always a bit far from reality.
Sure, all of those things are frustrating. But there's still something you can do about them. You can turn off the stream playing in the background so you can hear rats sneaking up on you, avoid lanes that are commonly camped or aim at common camping spots and maybe shoot the person who pops out before they can shoot you, or try to order your teammates around to get them to actually do something useful. It's frustrating, but you can at least do something about it. Planes, on the other hand, are just an instant "you lose" button. There's no counterplay unless you spawn a vehicle specifically designed to counter them (which usually makes you useless against everything else) and all you can do otherwise is hide and hope the pilot sucks, but since CAS takes no skill that doesn't work out too often. In low BRs MAYBE you have a roof MG, but half of the time the elevation or traverse aren't sufficient to aim at the plane and the other half of the time it just gives your position away to the tanks you're trying to fight, who then come and kill you while you're distracted or after the plane's bomb has blown up your gun and tracks if it didn't kill you outright.
Bottom line is that while there are plenty of frustrating and unbalanced mechanics in the game, CAS is by far the worst because of the lack of counterplay. People are bitching and moaning about the VIDAR at 8.0, but even if it were a reserve tank it would be less frustrating to play against than CAS because you might have a chance to shoot the thing.
I could argue that you can defend yourself against CAS the same way you argue to defend yourself against 3rd person campers. With situational awareness, properly chosing routes that keep you hidden from sight as best as possible, fighting back with the weapons you have and by trying to use your teammates to your advantage.
The truth is though none of this will guarantee to work. If you have a mobile playstyle that actually cares about playing the objective you cannot beat 3rd person campers by hearing them in most cases. You cannot magically anticipate where they hide to shoot them first nor does the game give you many options of „lanes“ that aren’t potentially camper infested.
People are rightfully „bitching“ about VIDAR having apparent unfair advantages at 8.0. I have no problem with CAS though because I accept that this makes the game ultimatively more diverse, realistic and interesting. There are simply some things in this game you can hardly avoid, may it be the fact that a plane can bomb a tank is one of them just like you cannot avoid a round from
some sniper camper or having to always consider getting spawnraped within the very first seconds after any spawn but your first thanks to Gaijins map design.
Thanks for your efforts on explaining but Tank only players don't understand that. Most of them don't even have proper vehicle lineup for GRB and don't care.
A Maverick shot from 23km has no tracking through. It can only hit a point on the map. So if you’re sat still in SPAA you’re going to get hit. Don’t sit in open fields, use cover and always move from spawn because that’s the first place CAS looks.
simply dodge the guided munition, its really easy if you think about it
perhaps you might even find an indestructible shack and wait behind it for 5m while the heli uses all 16 of his missiles so you can move to the next shack and wait behind that for another 5 when he comes back up
We are talking about gbus and shit. Not laser guided heli munitions. I agree cas is a problem but if ur dying ti a gbu 23 km a way that has the wrost tracking ever then thats on u. Gbus only really work on sitting still targets
kh29s arent GBUs?
furthermore, even for laser guided bombs theres a limit to how much you can move, notably, the enemy tanks that are gonna slam your face if you start booking it most anywhere on the map. You're also abandoning your position
shifting 20m isnt gonna make the bomb miss, and it certainly wont make a missile miss. You have to give up whatever position you are in (or more likely run directly into the enemy and die)
if by some chance you do realise a bomb or missile is coming, hiding behind indestructible buildings is going to be far more effective and less likely to completely give up position
Fire and forget guided bombs or missiles may have 20km "lock" range, but that lock range is on the GROUND. TV based missiles/GBUs have usually +-3km TRACKING lock range, where they can track moving objects. Infrared guided ordnance is better-ish, as it might get a lock as far as 10km away, but they also love IR signatures of burning wrecks and good luck seeing anything with any IR guided seeker and their tiny zoom, making you reliant on external targeting pod.
Laser guided missiles like Kh25ML are the best as they don't have seeker limitation imposed on GBUs (narrow seeker FoV, only +-3km laser dot detection thus initial drop already needs to be on point). And they seems to have SP price of regular bombs as well, unlike TV variants.
Because they are there to surpass SPAA. Because players grinded it for 400k RP and spaded it in pain. It is their right to kill some ground players with improper vehicle lineup.
Why should I be forced to grind an entirely separate tree or pay anywhere from $30-$60 just to be able to have a viable counter to enemy aircraft? Why not simply let ground-based anti-air units actually, I don’t know, *do what they’re supposed to do*? And if the current ones lack the range, then add actual medium-to-long-range anti-air units, like the Patriot. Level the playing field.
This is it, I cannot even grind USAF up to 6.0 and have to buy F2G-1. From 4.0 cannot even find a single Air AB match, while in RB its a cycle of 15 minutes fly and get oneshot from behind, even when you are hiding in clouds. US SPAA is a miserable, and its horrible sucks when compared to USSR and German SPAA. Even Sweeden SPAA is better at the same calibe since it has SAPHEI
Because this game is not about being balanced and strategic, it has become ADHD simulator. Hold W and drive as fast as possible towards the enemy, click to delete, repeat. No strategy, no skill, no thinking. "You should be able to shoot missiles out of the sky, if your vehicle doesn't have a commander mg then you brought the wrong one, if you're in an open top it's your own fault, if you move after spawning it's your fault for cancelling spawn protection, if you don't move after spawning it's your own fault for staying still, if you want fewer aircraft in ground battles you need to bring more aircraft..." Players who abuse the broken CAS mechanic are not capable of rational thought. "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway" - Shannon Alder.
The first reply here was literally “erm just shoot down their missiles with your missiles 🤓” so bonus points for nailing that.
Yeah classic, "CAS isn't OP because you should just spawn aa, if planes are out of aa range you should spawn a plane, don't bring tanks into ground battles only bring planes and aa something something skill issue"
Yeah, it's hilarious how CAS apologists used to be like "just spawn SPAA", and, now that not even that helps, they are like "just spawn a fighter". Like... good sir, if I wanted to play air battles I would have joined, well, Air Battles, since planes, unlike tanks, have their own mode to do their own thing. If I am joining Ground Battles it's because I fucking want to play fucking ground vehicles, not play Air RB 2.0. And then they hit you with the "muh combined arms"... what exactly is "combined" about being forced to only play planes because your ground vehicles are anihilated by said planes!? "Don't want to have your tanks exterminated by planes? Just don't play tanks and play planes instead lol, easy."
Yeah that's the standard progression: "Just play AA" "Bring CAP planes" "Planes are OP in real life so there" "It's combined arse" "Go play WoT" They can't admit that they aren't good, they're just abusing a broken mechanic and that there is an easy fix.
I love lower to mid teir for shooting down CAS but they hate it. No markers so they can barely see you coming and I've literally had them cry that I should go play air if I want to shoot down planes. Like take your own advice and go play air if you wana bomb so much
Precisely. I hate how I keep outplaying and defeating my rivals on the ground... only for them to jump into an OP flying thing and kill me from 20km away without me having any chance to do anything about it just because they managed to stand on a circle for a few seconds before I blew them up. Even if "just spawn SPAA/CAP" was a thing, it would not be a solution to prevent me from losing my tank to revenge-bombing; it would merely be a retaliatory measure after I've already been blown to bits. More than 40% of my deaths in "Ground" Battles are to C\*S and H\*licopters. I actually calculated it a couple of months ago, by counting all of my deaths over the course of 100 battles. If I recall correctly, 42 of my deaths were to flying shit, and, most of the times, by enemies I had previously destroyed on the ground. War Thunder is one of the few games where outplaying and defeating your rivals fair and square is not rewarded, but punished; by giving said rivals an easy way to essentially get a free revenge-kill on you via C\*S/helicopters.
It is hilariously easy to farm the entirety of BRs 3.3-7.7 playing as Russia, because the entire playstyle is just: >spawn tank >get 1-2 kills/assists, cap a point, maybe scout a few people >die >spawn Pe-8 >profit I can literally do this in a 6.7 Russia lineup on repeat and get a guaranteed 5+ kills per match. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah people can sometimes spawn a fully laden fighter bomber without getting a kill or assist. It's quite weird to see. Like spotting counts as an assist so I dunno how they can get enough sp. Guess it's from taking damage. Most the time it's one kill or one assist. Saw some dude at br 5 get 1 kill then proceed to get 8 kills with 2 CAS spawns. AA needs to be made ridiculously easy to use so "revenge" AA becomes a thing. I already rage spawn AA but it's half skill half luck at lower tiers to shoot anything down outside of 800m. Obviously easier if it's head on.
Oh I definitely do revenge aa, especially when I got revenge cas bombed. Revenge bombers are braindead, so I just slap them out of air with my 35mm easily
I'm sure they'd be quite mad if the game was a bit more reallistic. SAM nowadays reach several hundred km, and radar is done by AWACS or a battery of radar spread everywhere. Enjoy having to spawn your CAS and getting killed from several 100+km away missiles.
Gaijin if they add the Patriot system and I can erase a Su or MiG as soon as it spawns
That would give them a taste of their own medicine, considering *they* can do exactly that right now and there’s nothing SPAAs can do
You know why? Because people constantly complain about the wrong reasons. Look at the amount of complaining before Su25SM3 and after. Even though kh38 is strictly worse then what you could already do with better planes people will constantly say "the only thing that counters pantsir". Problems of warthunder are that on average players have played way less of other games and are less experienced in understand the mechanics in a vacuum and can only cling to things that are caused by being bad.
If planes are so op I wanna see YOU how you deal with constant Grippens, Mirages, Mig-29s, Su-27s, Pantsirs, ITOs and helis with TY-90. Fact is, playing CAS is not easy at all because 100 things are going on are more like - after you and while all that you also have to deal with the extremely inconsistent AGMs, GBUs and other mechanics. If you you Avenger, would for ONCE try what is TOP TIER CAS gameplay really like, we'd see a lot less bitch post from you. And before you start having mental breakdown because I play CAS, I also enjoy playing MBTs, IFVs, ATGM carries, helicopters and especially SPAAs. I know right, it is absolutely crazy someone likes to play all parts of the game.
Fly at 10km high, can't be targeted by ground AA but you can still bomb them with laser guided ammo. GG easy. Only fighters are a threat to you and most people don't play these, they enjoy more joining the slaughter. Helicopters are also pretty bad at dealing with planes, they're using only IR tracking. It never locks on anything.
GG easy. You just proved you don't know anything what you're talking about. Only the biggest retards still do spaceclimbing since that just makes you extremely easy to spot and hit by S1s and all VT-1 platforms since at 10km alt you are practically brick. At that alt you will also die easily to SARHs, especially to R27ERs. Space climbing hasn't been meta for like 1.5 years now.
That's why I have a few replays with GBU killing 5-6 people in spawn I suppose, or just because it is incredibly easy to evade missiles guided on a 2D screen with a plane flying in 3D. There's a good reason why IRL they are not manually guided, still we have to aim manually.
And what aircraft are you playing ? The only "top tier" SPAA that has trouble with that is ADATS because it's missiles are so fucking dogshit past like 6km. ADATs in general is uncapable of dealing with any new CAS and should get replaced by something more competitive. Even the Type81 is much better than ADATS.
FlaRakRad. Anything else to say ? Also I mostly play 10.0. I'm sure you're gonna tell me how you handle any plane with Roland 3 ? Once again as an AA player we have to aim in 2D, you can maneuver in 3D.
Man playing cas is so easy I played 15+0 chess game while flying in ground RB and got 5 kills before game ended then I proceeded to blunder my chess game. Grinding it is also easy if you are not brain dead, I play mostly britain where early planes are good but from 8.0ish they are completly out of meta and you have to actualy think and its not that hard, of course later planes are again all pretty much the same as others but 99% of players at top tier premium grinded tech tree so you might not know this strugle. Cas grind for most players is simply: bomb bases die repeat or if they don't get killed go back to airfield repeat. Early cas is ground targets and some are good as fighter too. Bomber line you ask? Just go to random sim batlle and see most players have days in bombers on sim and next to nothing in other plane types. Top tier cas ahh yes over 20km range missile that is out of range of AA also why bother about fighters since fighters need to get closer to you aka in range of your AA. The thing is russia has best spaa maybe china because of range so they have better chance to take down some cas and helis. I play Air RB ground RB and Naval AB/RB and cas is not balanced in ground RB. Ships at least have some range on AA and can survive some hits(I don't have top tier ships so cas there is more mid WW2-early cold war) And I can agree that taking fighter is good way to kill cas but only in low to late mid tier. Also AA and air progression are not on the same level at first with slow bi planes AA is effective later between 3.7 - 7.7 AA is much less effective since planes are much faster and only thing that changes in AA is bigger rounds, more guns or more armor. Then again 8.0ish where you have radar AA again planes will be crushed until planes don't get thermal, super zoom and long range missiles. That also applys to helis. If you die in top tier cas it is your own stupidity
Yeah well then I'm sure you wont mind me checking out your stats on top tier CAS and it better be fucking good compared to mine.
Also, "play WoT". Seriously.
I'd say "play AW" as well. Not only it has decent PvE mode to live in armored power fantasy of pressing W and shooting stuff, it also has such abstract concepts like Ariete with actual armor on the front.
And the Leclerc AZUR's ERA actually stops kinetic like it's meant to in real life. Pretty sad, honestly.
Pretty sure KH-29T only has a range of 13km with the effective lock distance being less than 10 most of the time. At least it is for me.., The mavericks lock range is also not 23km, on the top planes I can lock it at 20km on a point and around 13km on a moving target. I just had to correct you, but yes spaa needs a buff, especially the low tier ones
tracking distance for ALL TV GUIDED AGMs is just 6Km. For TV bombs it's just 3km. In addition, Mavericks are extremely slow and have very low damage.
So you're saying CAS ammo are bad when they lock only at 6km but finds AA incredibly strong that can't lock things before 4km ? KA-52 also got some 10km things you know.
Even Ozelot is a good counter against A-10 or A-6 and let's not even mention the Strela. Skill isue.
Brain issue on your side mah dude. As my teacher said, when you're alone pretending to be right against everyone, you're either a genius or stupid. And you're not a genius my man.
You can't destroy an Ozelot with your A-10. Skill issue.
I’d love a game mode with playable Patriots and HARMs… But most players probably wouldn’t. Unfortunately. I’d love to see the CAS-vs-AA argument when AA has a 100+km range, on appropriately-sized maps, where flying effective CAS requires Wild Weasels.
Right, let me just use my 8 missiles to shoot down bombs and AGMs, then I guess I'll just J out when they run me out of ammunition. Fucking aircraft come strapped with more ordnance than ground based SPAA.
Yeah unfortunately. "Cas is op so I use it it's gaijins fault". Same argument as they let you put the shopping cart anywhere so why not put it anywhere in the parking lot? Common decency. On that note with the MG shooting down missiles I haven't been able to do it since they made it harder to do a year ago or so. Very very rarely do I sometimes shoot one down with a main gun round but autocannons just impact the missile and do nothing. MGs are a joke against them now. A far cry compared to when the mechanic was first introduced.
>Same argument as they let you put the shopping cart anywhere so why not put it anywhere in the parking lot? Because you won’t get your coin back this way lmao.
If you need coins that tells you about how often people use cas. Heh. My area still dosent for better or worse.
It’s like so many things in game though. Why shouldn’t I kill steal? Why should I help this team mate out? Why shouldn’t I just one spawn and quit? Why shouldn’t I spawn camp? Should long range CAS ever have been added? Nope, not at all. At least not until everyone got amazing SPAAs and or equal CAS but they gotta please them RU/US mains. Otherwise what was the point of grinding/buying whatever OP jet?
>Players who abuse the broken CAS mechanic are not capable of rational thought Hey man I abuse it and still think it needs rebalancing. Shots broken as hell.
I just wanted a chance to fly Dive Bombers and not be a detriment to the team because I didn't take a fighter...
Me and my buddy always say I play tank game to play plane game.
People always cry about realism, too, but its a videogame; if these kind of mechanics and changes were added to other games, it would ruin their appeal and player numbers. Balancing must take priority over realism, but obviously, Gaijin doesn't care, and we are suckers for still playing this shit and buying/grinding. The most glaring example is the Pantsir being added while their is no equal for any other nation in the game. Sure, most nations irl don't have a similar AA capability in a single truck, but why does one nation get to benefit from its amazing capabilities while others do not? A good pantsir can deny airspace while its cas can oppress the battlefield. Of course, there are other examples on other nations, but still.
As someone with ADHD, how dare you? I mean, it's completely accurate but... but how dare you! It's not like we're that easily distracted and need constant dopamine hits OOOH LOOK TURM IS ON SALE
You cant even see the missiles unless you look right at a plane, which you cant normally see either, through your x16 gunsight right as it launches the damn thing. Which is a little difficult if that jet is literally in orbit above your elevation angle.
Thats why 7.3 is such a good br.
> it has become ADHD simulator It's really just a race to the bottom across all forms of entertainment. Dopamine fast, next thing, dopamine, next thing, dopamine etc etc. It's the most effective way to hold peoples attention. The problem is that once you get locked into that cycle you don't have the patience for anything else that takes time to be rewarding. It started a long time ago. Stuff like hit markers in shooters are little micro rewards. Even little things in Warthunder like the reward for taking off are playing off this dynamic.
Come down to WW2 and early Cold War where the actual fun is!
Where american fighter planes can carry 2 2,000 lbs bombs and clear cap zones. Granted, it's much easier to shoot them down with spaa
Yes, but it is easy to shoot them down. It would be a better game without unrealistically accurate CAS, but I don’t find it obnoxious at low tiers. They mostly ruin heavy vehicles (Maus) or light vehicles without any AA capability (PT-76)
The reason why I first spawn my R3 and my M247 sometimes, just purely to ruin a bunch of cas players day. Doing my part, even if cas is more balanced at those brs.
I mostly agree with your statement, but there is one thing I would like to point out: your comment only applies to top tier. Low and mid tier? You'd get absolutely fucking wiped if you tried to run and gun lmao.
You've obviously not played low tier then because this is exactly what I see: M22, puma, concept 3, as42, SARC... Even medium tanks, players will just rush straight down the middle, they might pause to shoot, but they never use cover or defilade, they drive on straight lines over crests and skylines... No skill, no strategy, just drive.
How can someone not play low tier exactly? About 2/3 of my hours are in low and mid tier due to boredom. I can count on my hands the number of times a guy rushing in the middle of the field managed to survive more than 20 seconds. I suggest you do an experiment: boot up the game, take a piece of paper, go into BR 1 and 7 and try to rush right in the middle of the map until you reach more than 150m inside the enemy half of the territory. Note how many kills you get before getting flanked from 2 sides
This this this. Last night I had 3 games in the Firefly. 4-0 5-0 12-0. All I did was hold a basic overwatch position. People have 0 patience and 0 awareness. I wasn’t even well hidden. They just hold w and shoot the first thing they see.
Because money Notice the lack of premium SPAA and how a lot of premium planes are ground pounders of have ground attack capabilites of some sort... Yeah, is as simple and as bullshit as it sounds
My man, premium SPAAs are not a thing because everyone is allergic to SPAAs lol. They have no incentive to make SPAAs premiums because they'd literally make negative money on them.
People is so allergic to SPAA because they give less rewards for a plane kill than a tank on tank kill, SPAA's get punished for literally doing what they are designed to do... That, and the fact that Gaijin has a hard on for screwing radar SPAA on a monthly basis... Currently at least the ASRAD is fucked when it comes to pick up enemy targets The Stormer has been up and down so often that it's entirely random if it's going to work or not the next day etc... I'm not sure about the negative money tho, since they would go the ctrl+c ctrl+v route and just add a premium ADATS or premium 2S6 and call it day, won't be much money thrown in to that tbh
>People is so allergic to SPAA because they give less rewards for a plane kill than a tank on tank kill, SPAA's get punished for literally doing what they are designed to do... It is, in fact, the opposite, [plane kills give more than tank on tank kills](https://new.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bd0048/killing_planes_in_grb_gives_more_rewards_than/).
In fact you win less points in battle for destroying aircrafts which are always one hit kills (no multiple rewards for hitting the thing 20 times) and basically gives less than the 200 points for tank destroyed. Those points decide your ranking in a game, and affects how much SL and RP you get. As such a single rat player enjoying his Fox with a 3 kill at the beginning of the game then leaving will get more points than an SPAA player protecting his team for the whole game that will have destroyed 3 planes. Not really fair at all.
>Those points decide your ranking in a game, and affects how much SL and RP you get. Yes, no. Mission score is disconnected from SL and RP gain.
Really ? I thought there were bonus gain from being first second ... And so on ? Doesn't remove the rest though. Shooting blindly at tanks gives quite a lot of money compared to OSing a plane.
Bonus rewards are based on kills, not scoreboard position.
Bonus rewards are also based on time in battle and activity, so he's still right.
No, he’s not. Time in battle is irrelevant to mission score. Activity is correlated with mission score but they are entirely separate. Activity is not based on mission score.
Shh, you're breaking the narrative.
>People is so allergic to SPAA because they give less rewards for a plane kill than a tank on tank kill, Why do people keep repeating this BS
Because it isn't BS.... You get less silver and fewer exp points for a plane kill than a tank kill.
No you don't.
Yes... you literally do. Just go play a game.
My man, you have a screenshot to prove you otherwise. You do not earn less RP and SL.
My man. The reason premiums exist is to drive popularity into a certain tree or to double down on an already popular tree. Neither are going to be achieved with a premium SPAA. And even then, if a premium SPAA was released (in another universe), you'd all be saying shit like "omg Gaijin is pay-walling good SPAA". SPAAs are not getting punished lol, I do not know what weed you are smoking but find a better dealer. In top tier, yes, if it so happens that you get a pilot that knows the limits of SAM's weaponry (which is rare in itself, most will just dart towards the battlefield), you are fucked. That is never going to change because CAS and SAMs are always on edge. In lower tiers, mainly near the early-jet era and below, farming planes is one of the easiest way to farm up RP because there is just a shit ton of US planes to farm. Yes their reward is lower (which should see a little bump), but you get double if not triple the amount of planes in mid-high tiers, mainly against US. And hell, if you are playing US, you have .50s on everything so you can even take out low flying Sukhois/ILs/Tu-2s etc etc. Don't try to push this shitty idea that playing SPAA is punishing, when in reality, you'll earn almost the same amount from planes and tanks, solely because of how abundant CAS is in the middle-high tiers.
They could at least give us some copy paste SPAAs for GE in the tech tree. It takes minimum development time, won’t get in the way of their big pack premiums, and would look very tempting to a lot of people going back to the hanger after being killed by CAS.
I’d buy some premium SPAAs in a heat beat if they were decent. There are so many nations and trees in this game, and the grind is so abhorrent, I don’t always have competitive SPAA to fit in my lineup. I don’t think I’m in the minority, it takes long enough to go down just one line, and many players beeline for a specific vehicle and neglect other options.
Me too but the problem is, at least at top tier, that no more vehicles could change this. There's not much else than what we have at hand in terms of short range SAMs. After ADATS, Rolands, Pantsir, the level ups are Patriots, MAMBA, S200/300/400 : all of which are made to fight cruise missiles and planes at 100+km range. None of these are well suited for the game. Radars are also pretty bad right now, but same thing, most radars are not good alone but works in a big network of AA radars, including AWACS, to spot anything moving several hundred km away. Something that can't be in game. Unless Gaijin decides to nerf planes to account for everything ground AA should have but can't have, AA is going to lose almost everytime...
Same, even if it was just mid tier. If I want to jump start a new nation, it'd be nice to have SPAA that's at least vaguely viable for the BR. I know there's some premium tanks that can help out AA with mounted MGs, but it isn't going to be as effective as many SPAAs. So long as they're not like that one weird Russian premium SPAA. 5 rounds, with a 6.5 (or 5 aced) sec reload.
Yeah... aside from the fact AA choices are limited (especially at higher brs) its basically bot tier gameplay especially at higher brs where many aa dont have guns or the pantsir which cant shoot down or sideways (hehe funni -1 degrees). Lower br spaa can at least hunt tanks but many higher tier aa are sit in spawn and pray an aircraft spawns
Except a single nation that has an infamous premium SPAA
Yeah, good luck taking out an orbital A6 with that...
The game fundamentally isn't designed for anything past the early Cold War era
Honestly, War Thunder should have never gone past 90s tech. Now we have all those modern vechicles based upon dubious specs, because real deal is usually top secret. And it results in total mess.
Mig29 and f16 we have ingame are pre 90s tech.
The f22 is 90s tech. First flew in 1997
You do realize everything we have is pre 90's tech pretty much right?
Yes, but many Ground vechicles are younger, current service models, with their specs as top secret.
I affraid its not even passed WW2, the flak shells (aka the one with * mark) supposed to exploded about a while after left the barrel and the range can be adjusted. They should allowed all shells with self-destruct at least in WW2 to have that feature. In ground combat it will allowed the playstyle of multi-layered flak (its a common strategies used up to Vietnam war) to intercept CAS.
Ohboyi wait till you run into the su25sm3. There was zero concern for balance when they added that bullshit.
Oh I have. My 11.3 US lineup is intimately familiar with it.
My condolences, if you have a tt lineup at 11.3 I would suggest playing 10.3 until your able to get 11.7 tanks paired with 12.7 jets. You'll be grouped with less 11.3 aims and clickbait one deaths. But still suffer because Usa is not equipped to deal with Russia Germany and Sweden combined most games.
Adding such high premiums/squadrons is so annoying. My highest plane is the Bf109 F4 BECUASE I WANT TO PLAY GROUND
Same here. I want to play ww2 planes so I do that and not jets.
Gaijin knows brainrot sells, if you please the dumb audience they will buy that premium plane/helicopter, the more they enable the brainrot the more these individuals will buy
I did. AMA
Where are you rn? I just wanna talk. 🗿
I am currently on Menkent, fighting Automatons while dodging fire tornados.
have you encountered the mating automatons
No, I avoid playing high difficulties on fire tornado planets. Max I do is diff 5 there
I fell in love with war thunder because I love military vehicles. I fell out of love with war thunder because I love strategy and wt lacks it. So I fell in love with arma because it has the strategy and military vehicles i love. War thunder to me now is basically just spend like 10-15 minutes in a tank that you like shooting at other tanks you may or may not like. I don't take it so seriously anymore
Same but also because no matter how hard I'd try my performance rarely affected the game. So I switched to WoT and I am having MUCH more fun.
Both the Kh-29 and the Mavericks are slow. At 20+km range they take a LONG time to hit their targets, and mavericks need a direct hit to kill (and As/Bs/Ds need a good direct hit (because it’s HEAT). However the new Kh-38s are FAST, and have an extremely long range. They can also hit anywhere near the target and kill (150kg HE warhead).
Kh-29 goes mach 1.8, literally DOUBLE a maverick's mach 0.9. The Kh-38 is faster at mach 2.2 but that's a much smaller difference from the 29. Kh-29 also has a *larger* HE warhead (186.24kg TNT equiv. vs the Kh-38's 152kg TNT equiv.). What truly makes the 38's so much more annoying to fight is having inertial guidance, a ballistic path instead of a straight path, and thermal capability.
Huh the more you know.
It should be the other way around. Force the pilot to be conscious of their approach and attack vectors.
* Best Air to air missile (R27ER) that came out in the 1990's around the same time as the US Amraam A variant. Unmatched for a year+ now. * Best Air to ground CAS in the game. SU-25sm3 can lob ATGM's 40km away from their airfield. All while protected by.... * The best SPAA in the game. Pantsir out ranges other AA's not by just a bit, but by an incredible amount. Making it easy for the Su25m3 to orbit its airfield with impunity. * Best helicopters in game. KA-52/50 survivability is unmatched, and their ATGM's have the same power creep as the R-27ER compared to its counterparts. There is a reason you never see Apache's in high tier and you always see KA-52's. But the SU-27 cant turn 2 degrees more than it should and the F-15 is 12.3 so Russia suffers.
Can’t even fly nap of the earth in the Apache to avoid SPAA since you’ll just get swatted by an Su-25 from outside your pilot’s and gunner’s visual range, to boot.
I swear if you still think that the Kamovs are the best helicopters, you are doing lines. The reason why you do not see as much Apaches as Kamovs is because Russia does not have fucking Apaches, and Kamovs have a VERY good bundle that they come with, so of course they are going to be more popular when their premium bundle is one of the best in the store. But combat wise, the Kamovs have LONG fallen off. The 10km Vikhrs are dogshit because they require you to stay still and maintain lock which means that anyone can take you out easily. The Apaches with Hellfires (or Hellfires in general) are much better due to the fact that you can be COMPLETELY covered by hills and STILL launch Hellfires. Even the Z-19s are better because they are so nimble that it is impossible to crash them, meaning you can be 6km away from SPAA but still dodge them easily. Stop living in the past and accept that the Kamovs just aren't that good. Comparing Vikhrs to R-27ERs is also absolutely insane.
I don't know in which universe you live in, but the KA52 is still the top tier meta helicopter in GRB, Sim and Squadron Battles. Ask any competent heli player if they prefer to fly a KA52 or an Apache/any other Hellfire slinger/UHT and 9 out of 10 will say they prefer the KA52, the 1 that says otherwise still hasn't unlocked the KA52. Saying KA52 has fallen is off is absurd.
Squadron Battles are irrelevant and so is Sim because every helicopter is broken in sim. In actual GRB, the Kamov is a flying target practice in the shape of a bus. The more proxy slingers get added, the shittier the Kamovs become. They have long fallen off from their prime and the only people that still think so are the ones that have PTSD from them.
This is the dumbest post I have ever read on here.
What's dumb is that you still think that the Kamovs are meta lol.
You forgot the part where Russia has the worst fighters of top tier and also some of the worst tanks. The Western fire and forget helicopters are usually more effective than Russian ones.
The worst tanks lmao ?? They have by far the best lineup at top tier and the only good f&f heli is the german tiger and israeli black hawk which are not good platforms at all
French and Italian helicopters. Also Russia has very bad top tier, basically only better than Italy and Israel.
The french and Italian helicopters use spikes lmfao, you have the time to make a tea cup, drink it, and then grab a coffee before it hits. And the other part is just blatantly wrong, they have some of the best IFV, light tanks and SAMs at the tier as well as having a lot of very capable tanks
So spikes are bad? Then why did you mention the Israeli black hawk? And still Russian tanks are not good and neither are the support vehicles. SAMs are good yes but that's about it.
The Israeli black hawk has 16 of them, which makes it on par with the 8 pars's of the UHT. And otherwise just get good
War Thunder isn't a game anymore. Its a vehicle for channeling the frustration of its users into purchases with the hope to alleviate that frustration. It is designed to not be fun.
Gaijin totally forgot about 1/3 of an effective AA defense, which is long range AA. People don't make Patriots and SA-2s because they felt like it. They built them to take down long range and high flying targets. Add these into the game, spawn CAS on the airfield, and force them to fly low if they want to avoid long range AA, or have to deal with them if they fly high. That and reduce Fighter cost.
The pessimist in me says they didn’t forget, they purposefully neglect it as a means of either artificially boosting player activity by forcing people to grind out ground AND air trees, and/or spend money via Premium Accounts and/or purchasing premium aircraft to participate.
Or no one figured out how to make standalone, self sufficient long range SPAA system as snail clearly has policy of no multi-vehicle systems.
NASAMS? There's also an HML mounting 4x AIM-120s and 2 AIM-9Xs which I think is part of NASAMS
That is still multi-vehicle system requiring separate command and control vehicle as well separate radar station(s). Now could you fire Sidewinders like you fire Stingers, waiting for seeker to pick up something? Probably. AMRAAMs I guess also could be fired "dumb" ie with ARH seeker on and "fly in this direction until you find something". Then, going by good ol wikipedia - early 9X retains warhead and motor of 9M albeit with reduced air drag. So range wise, it will be mild? improvement over MIM-72 used by Chaparrals, as these missiles are based on 9D, common ancestor with 9L/9M missiles as well. MIM-72G already can lock and track jets in head on past 6-8km, range where missile is already running out of juice to reach target and if it takes any evasive actions, missile is unlikely to hit. Flare rejection of Stinger seeker is already plenty good and it takes Su-25SM3 ejaculating half of its flare payload to decoy these.
Gaijin so they can make money. Next they’ll add ARMs to make even more money.
The point is, they added best armanet for the aircraft, giving them FnF ammunition but we're still stuck with SACLOS SPAA, that stand alone in the middle of the field with no cover?
The game was never designed with this in mind and the devs no longer care to do that big of a rework/overhaul on anything. They just added the aircraft and weaponry, now working to maintain the illusion of balance))))
Yup, A4early massacres my Veak everytime
This is 70% if the reason I don't play top tier, CAS is basically invoulnerable; doubly so if you're not playing Russia. The other 30% of my reason is getting spawn killed/trapped like 3 minutes into the game because some POS is hiding behind a hill 400m from your spawn
its because war thunder is a dogshit game that hasnt been updated in over a decade. the only game mode is Chalk Circle and the only maps available after all this time are either arenas designed to pit WW2 and 1950s tanks against each other, or "new" maps that are just wide open fields with a town in the middle. so you're all bunched together no matter what driving into some fuckass killzone waiting to get obliterated in a bombing raid by an F-111 or sniped by a Vihkrs or turbofucked by a Frogfoot.
i want to see your gameplays using spaa at this tier
Whichever government placed an order for the CAS, of course.
Gaijin likely knew the implications of adding modern weapons to a game designed around WWII vehicles but then realized they could make a lot of money from it. So they added a square peg in to a round hole and now we’ve been stuck with it for years.
Top tier has never been balanced. So when annoying mechanics like this exist as soon as you become victim to it either leave match & do another lineup or just not play past a be that will have you interacting with the annoying mechanic.
the people who sell top tier premium planes
*Laughs in Arcade* On a real CAS is annoying and needs improvement. I think maybe if each team started with electronic warfare jammers that could prevent guided munitions could help. These could be destroyed, but if they have a set location a team can protect them with SPAA to try and limit CAS to unguided munitions. Might be a dumb idea/unrealistic but it gives an incentive to play SPAA while keeping CAS somewhat relevant (if they get destroyed guided munitions would work just fine)
Also, who thought, killing a plane in GRB is worth less than killing a tank!
Solution: Add patriot and s-400
Heli's at BR 7.7-9.0 has an effective range of ~4 km. Most SPAA at that BR range has a range of ~2km. It's why I'm looking forward to BR 9.3 even if it means uptiering to 10.3.
Sam fucking idiot at gaijin who decided the 2s38 doesn't need to go up in br.
I really dont like playing anything above 8.-9.0 because of this nowadays.
The same Devs who think 9.0 jets should fight all aspect missiles, the same devs who think a early ww2 DD should fight the Prinz Eugen etc. Warthunder is a great idea been run by idiots, the only reason the gamr survives is because of the lack of decent competition, not because its good. I used to genuinely enjoy and love the game, but the longer I've played and the 'balance' ideas the devs have put in make me hate it more and more. Its less like a fun game these days and more like a minimum wage job.
Because money speaks louder then balance so cas is broken while spaa is weak as shit. Can't have cas clowns getting wrecked for flying bad.
I can count on one hand the amount of CAS that I’d say requires “skill”. CAS is so many leagues above the capabilities of not only tanks, but their supposed “counter” (SPAA). Basically every death in WT you can blame yourself for (excluding volumetric BS, but that’s a bug - not a feature) bad positioning, whiffing shots, overextending, etc, but it is so rare that I’ll be bombed, missiled, or cannoned by a plane and think “oh yeah that’s fair enough”
I love spawning in fighters for the sole purpose of hunting down enemy CAS. It's extremely fun but the SL and RP Rewards for doing it is extremely poor for how valuable your actions are for your team
I'm very happy in my WW2 tiers.
Wait till they add stormshadow
Imagine if they added the Patriot system.
Patriot is 70km stormshadow is 550km
I would he pretty surprised if stormshadow was added without its American AGM-158A/B/C equivalent. That is, if they ever add some better guided weapons, as in better than laser gbus and the near-neolithic Mavericks that the vast majority of western tech tree vehicles are currently equipped with. Honestly, it blows my mind that the Russian tech tree has (among others fnf's) a Mach 2.2 IR+IOG FNF with a massive warhead and extreme range while damn near everyone else is still using subsonic mavericks or pgms...
At that range, you can spawn in one match, and obliterate ground targets in a completely different match 😂
I say we arrange a boycott day.. and that we expand on it and keep doing it, untill the devs listen to our issues with CAS.
Just want to say, as a person that plays both CAS and SPAA. I only run when it’s deemed by my personal opinion as “necessary”. - Our team is overrun and getting pushed back into spawn. -All zones are captured/they are capturing our one zone for battles. -There is a group of enemy’s in a strong position that requires CAS. Those are the main reasons I chose to spawn CAS at least. But also as a person that plays mainly Britain and Israel (with US as basically a lock as a teammate) even with those conditions I still decide not to because the team is either all already in the air. Side: Playing top tier Israel before getting the APS with the 4M was such a brutal experience. I basically always take out the Black Knight and the 4M if I’m versing Russia to counter the wave of CAS that comes.
Man it's good to no longer be playing
A counter argument to this would be to reposition and counter the incoming ordinance but we can't in the current map meta, which favors only MBTs and big SPAAs have no place to go.
Valid point, but the Kh-29T specifically in this case doesn't track moving targets beyond like 6km, so just move a little I guess.
Can't speak for top tier ground but one of my favourite activities at 6.7 is spawning in the 6.3 P-51 with no load and just playing air denial the whole game. I suck completely at using gun SPAA so that's my way of getting rid of CAS. People usually don't expect it either, I regularly get 5+ plans kills and since I'm not killing ground targets I often don't get targeted by SPAA. Very interested to try it out with the F16C or F-15A when I finally get a top tier US tank.
Start playing sim, games are much slower and tactical, no hold W to get deleted, cas is much harder to play with sim controls and no markers, but spaa difficulty stays the same.
Had many maps where i cant even fly outside the 20km pantsir range before i get the "return to battlefield". Mind you, im flying mirage2000. Good ol' meat grinder in the air and on the ground
Check this WT videos [Liniyka](https://www.youtube.com/@Liniyka/videos)
I know it's cliche but the only tier this applies to is top tier. Even if you still want your abrams or whatever you can just play 10.0 or so and get the experience it sounds like you want.
the problem is not CAS. The problem is the air spawn + small maps. Makes the maps bigger and makes plane spawn further away from the battlefield, together with cheaper fighter spawning cost and increase air to air reward to air RB level. I assure you CAS problem will disappear in one day. 99% of air RB player are happy to shot down those skillness CAS player for you all day long. (We can't now above 10.0, because small maps put us in range of SAM. And we don't have enough time to intercept CAS because of air spawn.)
The maximum range for fire and forget weapon is hard coded to be 13km, unless they are dropping them unguided
Are semi-auto guidance AA missiles still absolutely ruined? I quit after gaijin did their "tweak" to their guidance by introducing a crippling wobble to them. Which to my mind really upended any semblance of balance between air and ground interactions.
Counter air is pretty good at killing stuff out of Sam range but that’s like.. requiring of teamwork
If your SACLOS SAM isn't a Roland type, it can reliably shoot down even a full barrage of slower missiles (like Mavericks). You might be able to do it with the FlaRakRad too if you spot the missiles from far enough away, not sure tbh. This doesn't mean you can shoot down the attacking plane, but it does mean you can nullify its CAS effectiveness for a while.
Instructions unclear, [the Hellfire shot down my missiles](https://imgur.com/a/GEUhavq) :(
zamn
Because the harder Russian army doing IRL means more propaganda in game, they need every edge they can get to make Soviet OP 100% not bias bro
The 25BMs TV missiles don't really get TV though (I've used them and the optic is normal color, not thermal), the zoom is shit and target ID + lock is ass Idk about the 25T or 25SM3 though
Ks-29td actual range is like 12km. Max flight time 40sec. Max lock-on-tank range 6km.
Dudes mad that countries developed standoff weapons to not put their expensive ass planes directly in harms way
Reality of warfare sucks
Thats why my Top Tier SPAA is the F15/16, the Jas39 or the Z-10
\>or some american plane lobbing a maverick 23km away the pantsir it's there
If a pantsir hits you from over 12km you've got no clue how to dodge missiles. If a pantsir hit you from 16km+ you were literally flying in a straight line with your eyes closed.
If a Pantsir hit you from 16km+ you probably forgot you had War Thunder open
Isn’t that a general problem? There is apparently no guarantee that every vehicle should be able to defend itself against absolutely any threat (paper-stone-scissor concept) but you can equally get killed in your spawn by some weird miles away spawn-snipers as you can get killed by the classic 3rd person spawn campers behind some hill without being able to do much about it… the game is basically a free for all zone where whatever lets you succeed makes you right.
There's no *guarantee* that you can defend yourself against any threat, but in ground vs ground if you're skilled enough you can almost always come out on top. "I should have aimed that shot better," "I should have known there was someone watching that corner," etc. look at this, for example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bj6sq5/im_going_to_be_the_reason_the_m5a1_stuart_moves/ whereas with CAS (especially at top tier) there's literally nothing you can do against them if they play intelligently, *even if you play the vehicles specifically designed to counter aircraft*. It's not rock paper scissors, it's rock pistol scissors. All you can do is hide or give up on playing the game you actually want to play (tanks)
The game is so dominated by rat gameplay, 3rd person camping, upranks, the quality of your teammates and getting send in stock tanks against overwhelming odds that the „if you’re skilled enough you can overcome anything“ philosophy appears as wishful thinking. The reality is War Thunder can be a VERY frustrating experience at times and not just because of CAS. Always keep in mind that you’re not the only skilled player on a server and if two will meet it’s a variety of factors that will decide who will have better chances to come out on top. I’ve had matches where the top players didn’t even leave their bases as they apparently didn’t even knew how to write “playing the objective“ so it’s questionable by which standards you measure skill and successful play in the first place. The claim that CAS would be the sole reason of unfairness and frustration in this game and that a tank vs tank mode would be the recipe for a perfect experience where you only have yourself to blame is ages old but was always a bit far from reality.
Sure, all of those things are frustrating. But there's still something you can do about them. You can turn off the stream playing in the background so you can hear rats sneaking up on you, avoid lanes that are commonly camped or aim at common camping spots and maybe shoot the person who pops out before they can shoot you, or try to order your teammates around to get them to actually do something useful. It's frustrating, but you can at least do something about it. Planes, on the other hand, are just an instant "you lose" button. There's no counterplay unless you spawn a vehicle specifically designed to counter them (which usually makes you useless against everything else) and all you can do otherwise is hide and hope the pilot sucks, but since CAS takes no skill that doesn't work out too often. In low BRs MAYBE you have a roof MG, but half of the time the elevation or traverse aren't sufficient to aim at the plane and the other half of the time it just gives your position away to the tanks you're trying to fight, who then come and kill you while you're distracted or after the plane's bomb has blown up your gun and tracks if it didn't kill you outright. Bottom line is that while there are plenty of frustrating and unbalanced mechanics in the game, CAS is by far the worst because of the lack of counterplay. People are bitching and moaning about the VIDAR at 8.0, but even if it were a reserve tank it would be less frustrating to play against than CAS because you might have a chance to shoot the thing.
I could argue that you can defend yourself against CAS the same way you argue to defend yourself against 3rd person campers. With situational awareness, properly chosing routes that keep you hidden from sight as best as possible, fighting back with the weapons you have and by trying to use your teammates to your advantage. The truth is though none of this will guarantee to work. If you have a mobile playstyle that actually cares about playing the objective you cannot beat 3rd person campers by hearing them in most cases. You cannot magically anticipate where they hide to shoot them first nor does the game give you many options of „lanes“ that aren’t potentially camper infested. People are rightfully „bitching“ about VIDAR having apparent unfair advantages at 8.0. I have no problem with CAS though because I accept that this makes the game ultimatively more diverse, realistic and interesting. There are simply some things in this game you can hardly avoid, may it be the fact that a plane can bomb a tank is one of them just like you cannot avoid a round from some sniper camper or having to always consider getting spawnraped within the very first seconds after any spawn but your first thanks to Gaijins map design.
War Thunder players are incapable of adapting to the changes in battle though. They just piss and scream
Thanks for your efforts on explaining but Tank only players don't understand that. Most of them don't even have proper vehicle lineup for GRB and don't care.
A Maverick shot from 23km has no tracking through. It can only hit a point on the map. So if you’re sat still in SPAA you’re going to get hit. Don’t sit in open fields, use cover and always move from spawn because that’s the first place CAS looks.
Im pretty sure kh 29s have horrible tracjers so maybe just move?
simply dodge the guided munition, its really easy if you think about it perhaps you might even find an indestructible shack and wait behind it for 5m while the heli uses all 16 of his missiles so you can move to the next shack and wait behind that for another 5 when he comes back up
We are talking about gbus and shit. Not laser guided heli munitions. I agree cas is a problem but if ur dying ti a gbu 23 km a way that has the wrost tracking ever then thats on u. Gbus only really work on sitting still targets
kh29s arent GBUs? furthermore, even for laser guided bombs theres a limit to how much you can move, notably, the enemy tanks that are gonna slam your face if you start booking it most anywhere on the map. You're also abandoning your position shifting 20m isnt gonna make the bomb miss, and it certainly wont make a missile miss. You have to give up whatever position you are in (or more likely run directly into the enemy and die) if by some chance you do realise a bomb or missile is coming, hiding behind indestructible buildings is going to be far more effective and less likely to completely give up position
They pretty much act like gbus or tv guided missiles. But anyways sounds like a skill issue on your part
Fire and forget guided bombs or missiles may have 20km "lock" range, but that lock range is on the GROUND. TV based missiles/GBUs have usually +-3km TRACKING lock range, where they can track moving objects. Infrared guided ordnance is better-ish, as it might get a lock as far as 10km away, but they also love IR signatures of burning wrecks and good luck seeing anything with any IR guided seeker and their tiny zoom, making you reliant on external targeting pod. Laser guided missiles like Kh25ML are the best as they don't have seeker limitation imposed on GBUs (narrow seeker FoV, only +-3km laser dot detection thus initial drop already needs to be on point). And they seems to have SP price of regular bombs as well, unlike TV variants.
Because they are there to surpass SPAA. Because players grinded it for 400k RP and spaded it in pain. It is their right to kill some ground players with improper vehicle lineup.
Spading top tier jets is infinitely less miserable than spading top tier SPAA lol
You don't even need to spade a top tier SPAA to make it effective. Try spading a SU-25SM3 or AJS-37.
Have you heard of spawning a plane with AA missiles?
Why should I be forced to grind an entirely separate tree or pay anywhere from $30-$60 just to be able to have a viable counter to enemy aircraft? Why not simply let ground-based anti-air units actually, I don’t know, *do what they’re supposed to do*? And if the current ones lack the range, then add actual medium-to-long-range anti-air units, like the Patriot. Level the playing field.
This is it, I cannot even grind USAF up to 6.0 and have to buy F2G-1. From 4.0 cannot even find a single Air AB match, while in RB its a cycle of 15 minutes fly and get oneshot from behind, even when you are hiding in clouds. US SPAA is a miserable, and its horrible sucks when compared to USSR and German SPAA. Even Sweeden SPAA is better at the same calibe since it has SAPHEI
Because thats how Snail set up game. CAS is merely advertisement to sell you another tree to grind with or without associated premiums.