am i just poor or is the term "entry-luxury" kinda ridiculous, bcs to me these are grails and luxury. like calling a $10k budget "entry-luxury" sounds v pretentious to me.
It’s definitely not you being poor. Entry-luxury to me is watches around 1500/2000 bucks, and I own a SBGA413 and a Seamaster. OP sounds pretentious to say the least.
There are no hard definitions to these things, so what is considered "entry level luxury" vs "luxury" can vary from person to person. I would probably call these either upper end of entry luxury or mid level luxury, because realistically in the luxury sphere these are much closer to the bottom than the top. By that same metric, I don't call just any watch I can't afford a grail. To me a grail is basically unobtainable unless you're in the top 5%, so I'm talking high five-figures and up. A working class person *could* buy a $10k Rolex. It might takes them years to save for it, but it is attainable. However, no amount of saving would ever afford them something like a complicated Patek or a Gronefeld or Lange. Those are things that you aren't buying unless you're pulling at least a mid six-figure income, like $350k/year and up.
Buying a Patek while making 350k/yr sounds fucking ridiculous to me. Like, I’m pulling a bit over 100k in a low cost of living country and a Speedmaster seems too expensive. A Patek with complications is, what, a 50-100k and upwards? A quarter to a half of after taxes yearly income on a watch?
I agree with you, but it’s all perspective and what’s important to you. My wife and I are DINKS (we do live in Seattle, which is very expensive), but we have lots of disposable income. I like watches, but they aren’t the most important thing to me. I have a Rolex Datejust on order, but that is the most expensive watch I am ever going to buy. It is diminishing returns after that. I would rather spend my money on travels with my wife and retiring within the next 5 to 10 years.
If you don't have kids then why not? After tax that averages out to about $19,500 per month. That would easily allow you to use $7500 for your living expenses, $5k saved or invested, $5k for watches, and $2k left over for miscellaneous fun money. $5k per month means you'd have $50k saved in less than a year. In less than three years you could buy a complicated $100k Patek.
I don’t believe you wrote that and seriously thought “yep, completely normal math”.
5k to savings, 5k for watches lol.
No house, no car and barely any savings but ask me what time it is and behold
$7500 living expenses is including house and car, that's definitely doable. Also, in what world is $5k/month to savings "barely any savings"? You'd be *saving* more than most people's salary.
Yeah, but in that calculation you are also making 350k. For that income 5k is not great as far as savings go.
And with that TC you are almost definitely living in a HCOL area where that 7500 will not get you that much.
Again, all of that is doable, it’s just weird as fuck. It’s a watch, allocating as much of a monthly budget to a watch as to savings is ridiculous.
I based it off of where I live. $7500/month is enough to fund a very comfortable lifestyle in my area. That's plenty for a mortgage on a nice house, new car, and all of the expenses associated with those things.
Right. Entry level luxury to me is something like a Tissot, Herbelin or Hamilton. These watches are in my opinion actual entry level luxury watches. A «real «luxury watch doesn’t need to cost 40k to be luxury. Most people don’t even spend 500 dollars and their watches - hence why there is such a MASSIVE market for fashion watches. So in my opinion, Omegas and Grand Seikos are 110% luxury products for a small % of the population that can afford it
Are Audi R8’s not luxury because Bugatti Chirons exist? No one would call a 100k+ Audi, Mercedes, etc entry level luxury car just because there are million dollar production cars available.
I guess I do not immediately believe that price = “ultra high-end luxury.” The 5167a is a casual, mass produced stainless sports watch on a rubber strap which I do not believe meets the definition. To me “ultra high-end luxury” involves haute horology typically using precious metals and gemstones with highly finished hand assembled movements.
I guess to some people expensive = classy, but that’s just not me 🤷♂️
I mean yes, you've got some pretty trash looking products at high prices.
But Patek is pretty much the definition of a luxury brand and with such a price tag attached to it, I don't see how it's not ultra high-end.
There's what, 0.01% of people in the Western world who can reasonably afford it ?
too much money. although i did splurge on a 37mm AP Royal Oak but that was for a finally getting out of a toxic marriage congratulation gift to myself.
These are definitely entry luxury. Next step up would be something like Rolex. Grails would be something like AL&S datograph lumen or PP aquanaut travel time.
To be fair, I think OP is using something like this:
https://www.watchuseek.com/attachments/watch-brands-2022-feb-18-png.16445120/
I myself own watches in sub 1k category and have a grail in 6-8k budget right now, but I know that watches like Lange and Vacheron Constantin exist.
Overall I would say OP is a bit pretentious, because 10k watch is a total luxury, not an entry-level 😅
I wouldn't go with the Omega, at least that one. GS are really nice, but for the two you picked I'd be concerned about legibility of the hands. For the Shunbun, you really need to be able to embrace the pink dial, not everyone can. If you do go GS, I would only consider Spring Drive options.
BTW, I just picked up the SBGA493
https://preview.redd.it/li9hgaucg0bc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=301891fe42d6349f7f9ebb36442628b65238bdb8
It's a totally different type of regulation which doesn't use a traditional escapement but a tri-synchro regulator instead. There's several advantages, but high accuracy (better than virtually all quartz), and the sweeping second hand are the two you'll notice the most. The second hand doesn't tick at all, it sweeps fluidly. Nor does the watch make a ticking sound from a traditional escapement.
So I'd suggest a Spring Drive model as then no matter how many watches you have in your collection, the GS will be unique to them all (unless you have multiple Spring Drive watches).
The sweeping second hand is for sure cool.
I guess I don't understand the appeal of it being more accurate when im just going to use a fully digital watch if I actually need it to be supremely accurate and the appeal of the mechanical watch is in the beauty and effort that goes into making them so normally I see the fully mechanical high beat escapment wheel movements as equally desirable.
But your last point does make a lot of sense, its different and makes it unique. That new acutron with the little electrical generating rotors seems to have the same appeal purely for being unique.
A Spring Drive is more accurate than a fully digital watch unless it's GPS synced.
There's still a spinning regulation wheel on a Spring Drive, it just doesn't oscillate. A Spring Drive movement is just as mechanical as any other mechanical watch. Still a barrel, gears and wheels, exactly the same. The only difference is the regulation is spining with a brake instead of it oscillating (causing wear).
It's wrong to think Spring Drive isn't fully mechanical, as it is. The difference is the added complexity of a tiny brake on the spinning regulation wheel that uses a quartz crystal to control the brake.
"Its fully mechanical it just adds electronics"
So its not fully mechanical
It has electrical circuits. A watch that uses electricity and integrated circuits isn't completely mechanical. Its basically replacing the mechanical escapment with quartz. Its definitely cool, its definitely impressive engineering. Id love to have one, but its not fully mechanical.
100%! I picked this one up last year. The images don't do it justice. That dial is incredible and at that price, you can't go wrong. It's my everyday watch for work. I also loved the Shun Bun but the titanium just felt way too light for me.
Same. Grand Seikos look amazing regardless of the movement but IMO if you’re forking out for a GS you have to go spring drive as you can’t get that anywhere else.
I own the sbga413 and am very happy with it. With a 10K budget you could get a secondhand Grand Seiko and add a less expensive dive watch on top of that. Like a Breitling superocean for example.
Yup I agree, with a budget of 10k if you’re willing to go secondhand you can easily get the SBGA 413 + Tudor BB58 which I think would be a great combo for when the GS is too flashy, you can wear the tudor
Entry level luxury would probably be between 1,000 and 3,000. 3,000-5,000 mid-lower luxury, 5,000 and above is luxury, 10,000-15,000 is high end luxury, and 15,000$ and above is high horology. Imo.
15k covers most Rolex SS models. I’d say over 15k is either high horology or simply precious metal. Lots of brands will stick the same movement in their SS models in a PM case and charge triple
It's weird to have 3 strata for below 10k but only one for everything above 15k. A 3K tudor and 8k omega have more in common than a 50k aquanaut and 90k datograph perpetual calendar.
I tend to agree. I think in general below $1k is entry level, $1k to ~$3k would be mid level, and then above $3k is about where entry level luxury starts.
GS is a hard one for me for this particular case. I love GS watches and mine was one of my earlier high end pieces, but for that reason I can say I wouldn’t likely go that way. I also love the Seamaster, and that particular ref is gorgeous and I tried it on and felt super tempted to get it. That said wouldn’t recommend it for this. A first high end piece should have, imo, a bracelet unless you dislike them. That rules out the SMP, especially since on the bracelet it’s way more expensive due to the extra gold content. Plus the bracelet is divisive, and fairly so, imo, due to lacking taper.
The GS watches kind of push back on certain expectations, and one of them is no micro-adjust. I have a *very* hard time imagining ever buying a high end piece again that lacks micro-adjustment. Further to that, quick-adjust, in fact. It would have to be a special case. GS is one of those where I’d consider it, as I have already, but for a first and only high end piece to lack it, is not “doing it right” imo.
I propose this: The Speedmaster Professional 3861 Sapphire sandwich. (I’d recommend the hesalite, as I prefer it but it would rob you of certain “first and only watch” features that would make it less than ideal for you.) It is: gorgeous, an all time classic, in your budget, durable, has a display caseback, has a 5 year warranty, has a long service interval of 6-8 years, is useful as a timer, is luxurious, is tool-y, is available, METAS tested and super accurate, has super magnetic resistance, can be dressed up or down easily, has micro-adust, has a magnificently tapering gorgeous bracelet, is a good deal even with recent price hikes, is recognizable only to people who truly appreciate it (a massive bonus), and is one of the most cool watches ever made.
It lacks: a date feature (controversial but a massive positive for me. Makes having multiple watches in rotation, down the line a breeze), an automatic winding system (also a plus for me, you’re in control, plus it’s a nice ritual) hesalite (less cool distortion, durability to knocks, less connection to space-going heritage, but since it’s your only luxury piece you’ll want to have no consideration for crystal upkeep and you’ll want to see the movement, plus the extra polished small links on the bracelet will scratch your craving for fancy) high water resistance (it’s “only” 50m but it’s really 50, and proven to be during METAS testing, so it’s not going to be killed by anything shy of careless use in water ie pushing the pushers or pulling the crown, not a “swimmer’s watch” really, but can be worn in water)
Imo, consider it. Start with a real bang.
first rec is a must: go put all of them on and see how you feel, take pictures with them on in shop.
if you already did that and really are between the 3, then the GS GMT looks the best from the stock pics.
just personal pref: if i were to spend 10k ish, i'd get a Cartier Santos and a Tudor Blackbay 58 (or 54).
edit: if you finally settle on GS, look on Chrono24 and other sites as there are always really good deals from Japan on GS watches in great condition.
Try them on first. I LOVE the way the Grand Seikos look, but they're thicker than a lot of their competitors. I've owned two, and sold the automatic because of how it wore. It was a 37mm, so not large, either. I've tried on the Shosho and it's beautiful, but too thick for me.
Always always always put an expensive watch on your wrist before you buy it.
A $6k watch, especially GS or Omega, is not “entry-level”. Entry level is more along the lines of Longines, Oris, and maybe even Tudor. Also, these are all very different watches. As another mentioned, whatever you do, please get it on a metal bracelet. You can always add a strap at a later point for much cheaper than you can a bracelet.
I got a Speedy for my first luxury watch, and one thing I wish I considered is what I really *want* from a watch. Of course I love my speedy and will never get rid of it, but at this point I wish I had picked something that is 1. Automatic winding, 2. Has a date function. Some other things to consider are WR (unless you actually go diving, these are all safe choices.
How do you dress (always casual, business casual, frequent suits, etc.)? Is there a watch style you like best (diver, dress, etc.)? Does a GMT complication suit your lifestyle - do you travel frequently?
My first watch was an Omega SMP in black (not that gold one) as I love diving watches and avoid dressing up as often as possible but picked up a SBGA407 skyflake for “dressier” occasions.
Based on the three watches above, I’d pick the GS GMT because the dial is excellent, a GMT complication is useful, and the steel/gold combo of the SMP looks odd to me.
But all three watches are fine. What watch will work for YOU the most frequently?
My friend recently bought the pink Grand Seiko. I tried it on and it was not for me. I like the color, but it is very small and looks like a woman’s watch. I would not recommend for men with average to large wrists. It may come in other sizes, but I couldn’t see myself wearing it. Whatever floats your boat is what is right for you.
Thanks for all the comments! Apologies for the misuse term of “entry-luxury.” I should’ve also clarified that my budget is 10K CAD which should be around $7500 USD. As for the watches, I’ve tried them all on and each stand out.
Grand Seiko ShoSho - Dial is amazing, visibility is fine, GMT is great too but don’t think I’ll be using the GMT function as much. I still like the look of GMT and feel though regardless.
Grand Seiko Shunbun - Titanium bracelet is great! Love the fact that it’s a scary light watch. Dial is great too, but again, compared to other 2, the pink may need to get used to. The Snowflake seems like a good alternative but the white dial doesn’t really scream out to me as much. Didn’t forget to mention the spring drive though which is absolutely mesmerizing.
Omega Seamaster - Great watch as it reminds me of my very first watch I had when I was younger. Movement and quality can’t go wrong there. A bit chunky and big compared to the Grand Seiko’s but good nevertheless. Should be disclosed that I intend to buy this watch online perhaps from Jomashop of some sorts as it’s way cheaper compared to AD’s and fits my budget. (Thoughts if Jomashop is ok to use?)
As for the price of the two Grand Seiko’s I’m able to receive a 20% discount on those two.
For myself, I tend to roll towards watches that stand out visually in person while also taking into consideration the movement of course.
I would go with the Omega. In GS, spring drive is the only way to go which rules out the shosho. You probably don't want your first nice watch to be pink. That leaves the SMP. Omega makes a really accurate, well-engineered watch. My Planet oceans will keep time with any Rolex along with having much better fit/finish/QC than Tudor.
I am projecting a bit about your age -- but GS is for me, a second or third watch for someone with a slightly slower life (or multiple watches to chose from, where GS is exclusively special occasions).
I understand a bunch have bespoke hand polishing, and scratch/mar much easier than I would care for. I have worn my Omega tonnes, having owned it for 7 or 8 years now, and it handles it super well. Being a first watch I expect you'll wear it loads.
Agreed with Mr. Aster. The zaratsu polishing on both GS’s are significantly prone to scratch, regardless of hardening treatment. The benefits of the GS Sakura is how high that sapphire crystal sits on top of the case. It gives it that extra depth of warmth and it may protect the case when setting it down.
Though, if you’re the type of man who doesn’t mind a noticeably scuffed watch overtime, GS is a good pick. The Omega is an excellent pick because
1. That gilt model stands out from the traditional blue, black, white dial picks
2. Easier brand recognition
3. Seamaster’s association with Jimmy Bond
4. Can be dressed up with a strap replacement or the OEM gilt bracelet
5. The ceramic bezel is significantly less prone to abrasion compared to the GS’s
Why everyone want to buy the same watches ? So many awesome micro brands out there with some crazy complications that you can actually afford .. collectible watches all started from nothing, in the future there will be many more brands that will hold value that can be bought today
Yea I’m noticing that now … I’m the opposite , doesn’t mean I buy cheap shit but I want new cooler modern designs , it’s much harder for a new company to make it in the watch game so they need it put out great stuff meanwhile the big boys can just rest on their laurels and put out junk most of the time
For some reason I really dislike GS, therfore I would go for an Omega. Here, for other options, I would suggest you take a look at Seamaster Diver 300M with the white dial or also the Planet Ocean
GS has become pretentious with endless limited editions and fabulous bling dials marketed as representing Japan. Most Japanese are understated and would take a plain Datejust. If you want to go Glam go GS
For the same reason I would never buy a VW Phaeton or Hyundai Genesis. And the same reason why Toyota, Honda, and Nissan were smart and created Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. I think of Seiko and I all I think of is cheap digital watches. No way I’m paying that kind of money to put a Seiko on my wrist. I don’t care if you call me a snob. It’s a crappy marketing decision on Seiko’s part.
As for watch brands I like? Omega, JLC, Glasshuette Original, and Lange.
I don’t think you’re a snob bc you’re entitled to your opinions. I would, however, encourage you to post the qualities of the brands that you do like, and go see GS for yourself to see if it possess those qualities.
From my perspective, it does. And I own JLC, Cartier, Rolex, Omega, and Tudor along with the GS. From objective measurement of what quality is, GS absolutely are on par (if not ahead) of those brands. Also, it’s good enough for Shohei when he signed his record breaking contract, so that’s good enough for me!
Is it going to be a keeper, or something you’re gonna flip? If a keeper then whichever GS you like. If you’re ever going to sell it, than the Omega. gS’ have shit resale, you can look to lose 40% - 50% in the first year.
I take it you’re early in your watch journey? Learn more about Grand Seiko and don’t be one of the sheep that only knows about brands your favorite hip hop artist wears.
All are very nice. My first “nice” watch was GS Snowflake and it’s still my favorite. Watching the smooth second hand with spring drive can be mesmerizing. Skyflake or Sunbun or maybe White Birch are good alternatives, but I prefer the more classic white dial. I’d think about those unless you are really sure pink is okay, especially if plan to wear a lot. I would not doGMT watch unless you travel a lot.
Omega is also nice, but a different vibe. As others have said, you really need to try them on. There have been watches I wanted based on looks online but did not suit me when trying in person. Good luck!
The SBGA413 is the most versatile. It’s light, beautiful, and has a very comfortable case. You should be warned that the pink isn’t as pink as the press pictures. It’s very silvery until the light hits it just right. It’s definitely pink, but not as obvious as the pictures lead you to believe. In my opinion, this is a positive because it makes the watch even more special. I have the similarly pink dial (same color, different texture) on my SBGW289 and it’s incredibly charming.
The SBGJ249 would be my second pick. All the reasons above, but with the added bonus of a GMT function. The case is a bit thick, but the center of gravity sits firmly at the center of the wrist, making it wear like a dream.
Lastly, the Seamaster. It’s a fantastic watch. There is no wrong answer in this list. However, I find the Seamaster a bit boring and definitely less versatile. It’s a fantastic piece, but I think you’d be better served by either GS models.
Other: Speedmaster.
I own and have owned many, like many here, but none have given me as much fulfillment as a speedy (especially with the new bracelet).
Thanks for the comment! Any particular model? I’ve already taken a look at the Speedmasters before. Really like the chronograph 324.23.38.50.02.002 & 324.23.38.50.02.001
Classic Moonwatch (true GOAT in watches): https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-speedmaster-moonwatch-professional-co-axial-master-chronometer-chronograph-42-mm-31030425001001
Otherwise, many other good editions to pick from (including the ones you posted), but none with as much significance as the one above.
Here's another personal favorite though: https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-speedmaster-chronoscope-co-axial-master-chronometer-chronograph-43-mm-32932435102001
Me personally I would look into a SpeedMaster first, even if it has to be used. What styles do you like? Have you checked anything like Chrono24 to get some ideas?
Looking for an everyday watch, I’ve taken a look at the Speedmasters before so any model in particular you’d recommend? Really like the chronographs 324.23.38.50.02.002 and 324.23.38.50.02.001
I just got a GS spring drive & love it. Maybe look at the GS sports collection for something that would be a great crossover. My GMT isn’t a diver but it’s rated at 200 meters - way past anything I’d do with it.
I’ve taken a look at the sports collection from Grand Seiko and find them just a bit too bulky for my liking. Really love the seasons collection though
I have the Shunbun. I wanted my first GS to be a Spring Drive.
The dial and finishing, it is unbelievable in person.
Reviewers will say “flash of pink”, and they’re not kidding. You can’t take photos of that watch. It has to be seen in person.
For 2023, mine was +8 seconds. For the year. Spring Drives are amazing.
I do like a good GMT though. I think everyone should have one.
That Omega has a lot of wrist presence. If you’re a twig like me, it’s going to stand out.
You have to wear it, it’s your money.
Try on all 3, and then you’ll know.
Also, when you see the GS display case, there are at least 50 other watches that will distract you. I’m not kidding.
Good luck.
Personally I’d get the spring drive as a first watch, it’s the most accurate outta the three, and it’s not like any other watch. ALSO just look up how the second hand moves….. just a perfect sweeping glide all the way, no stutter. (Mesmerizing to see in person)
I bought the Shunbun for my wife for Christmas two years ago and it is really beautiful. I have my daily watch in for service and was going to wear the Shunbun the entire time. I only lasted a week and I didn't like it. It is beautiful, but is very feminine and catches a lot of light. I've instead been wearing my grand seiko hi beat GMT in green. My 2 cents from someone that owns a few watches at this level is if you can save up and would eventually want a Submariner, do that.
Interesting to see some words rile up so many. The budget to spend on watches is subjective and it’s completely fair to call these watches entry luxury.
https://preview.redd.it/lrh40idks5bc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddb0adac9f10afc591e89b3d52d0f36980a9cb96
Go for the omega...I may be biased since I have it myself. In sedna Gold it is.
Ignore all these clowns crying about the term “entry luxury”. Everyone has a different definition.
I personally own a few omegas and I have to say the movement is only mid tier. IMO Grand seiko has a much better movement (spring drive).
Buy the watch you think you’ll wear the most. Screw what other people think
$2k price range imo but that's still a lot of money. To see the brands they call entry level now is laughable because they don't have the prestige or history of some of the more well known brands is ridiculous...
I'd go for the SBGA413
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am i just poor or is the term "entry-luxury" kinda ridiculous, bcs to me these are grails and luxury. like calling a $10k budget "entry-luxury" sounds v pretentious to me.
It’s definitely not you being poor. Entry-luxury to me is watches around 1500/2000 bucks, and I own a SBGA413 and a Seamaster. OP sounds pretentious to say the least.
There's no set definition, but it's not uncommon for people to refer to < 5k as entry level luxury. That's basically tudor pelagos money.
Just wondering, why did OP sound pretentious? He gave his budget. That’s all
It’s more that he was calling 10k ‘entry level luxury’ that comes across as pretentious
OP’s post is entry-level
Same, to me entry level is Tissot, Mido, Oris, etc. A moonshine gold Speedy and a Silver Snoopy are Grails to me.
These watches are more like the beginning of the mid tier of luxury watches
It's not you. OP is just being a wanker
There are no hard definitions to these things, so what is considered "entry level luxury" vs "luxury" can vary from person to person. I would probably call these either upper end of entry luxury or mid level luxury, because realistically in the luxury sphere these are much closer to the bottom than the top. By that same metric, I don't call just any watch I can't afford a grail. To me a grail is basically unobtainable unless you're in the top 5%, so I'm talking high five-figures and up. A working class person *could* buy a $10k Rolex. It might takes them years to save for it, but it is attainable. However, no amount of saving would ever afford them something like a complicated Patek or a Gronefeld or Lange. Those are things that you aren't buying unless you're pulling at least a mid six-figure income, like $350k/year and up.
Buying a Patek while making 350k/yr sounds fucking ridiculous to me. Like, I’m pulling a bit over 100k in a low cost of living country and a Speedmaster seems too expensive. A Patek with complications is, what, a 50-100k and upwards? A quarter to a half of after taxes yearly income on a watch?
I agree with you, but it’s all perspective and what’s important to you. My wife and I are DINKS (we do live in Seattle, which is very expensive), but we have lots of disposable income. I like watches, but they aren’t the most important thing to me. I have a Rolex Datejust on order, but that is the most expensive watch I am ever going to buy. It is diminishing returns after that. I would rather spend my money on travels with my wife and retiring within the next 5 to 10 years.
If you don't have kids then why not? After tax that averages out to about $19,500 per month. That would easily allow you to use $7500 for your living expenses, $5k saved or invested, $5k for watches, and $2k left over for miscellaneous fun money. $5k per month means you'd have $50k saved in less than a year. In less than three years you could buy a complicated $100k Patek.
I don’t believe you wrote that and seriously thought “yep, completely normal math”. 5k to savings, 5k for watches lol. No house, no car and barely any savings but ask me what time it is and behold
$7500 living expenses is including house and car, that's definitely doable. Also, in what world is $5k/month to savings "barely any savings"? You'd be *saving* more than most people's salary.
Yeah, but in that calculation you are also making 350k. For that income 5k is not great as far as savings go. And with that TC you are almost definitely living in a HCOL area where that 7500 will not get you that much. Again, all of that is doable, it’s just weird as fuck. It’s a watch, allocating as much of a monthly budget to a watch as to savings is ridiculous.
I based it off of where I live. $7500/month is enough to fund a very comfortable lifestyle in my area. That's plenty for a mortgage on a nice house, new car, and all of the expenses associated with those things.
Right. Entry level luxury to me is something like a Tissot, Herbelin or Hamilton. These watches are in my opinion actual entry level luxury watches. A «real «luxury watch doesn’t need to cost 40k to be luxury. Most people don’t even spend 500 dollars and their watches - hence why there is such a MASSIVE market for fashion watches. So in my opinion, Omegas and Grand Seikos are 110% luxury products for a small % of the population that can afford it
Then what would you call a $50k Lange? Or a $100,000 Patek?
Are Audi R8’s not luxury because Bugatti Chirons exist? No one would call a 100k+ Audi, Mercedes, etc entry level luxury car just because there are million dollar production cars available.
Ultra high-end luxury.
A 5167a is not “ultra high-end luxury.”
Yes, yes it is. A watch worth 50K is absolutely that.
People be really really out of touch here lmao
Yeah I'm surprised I even had to comment on that to be honest...
I guess I do not immediately believe that price = “ultra high-end luxury.” The 5167a is a casual, mass produced stainless sports watch on a rubber strap which I do not believe meets the definition. To me “ultra high-end luxury” involves haute horology typically using precious metals and gemstones with highly finished hand assembled movements. I guess to some people expensive = classy, but that’s just not me 🤷♂️
I mean yes, you've got some pretty trash looking products at high prices. But Patek is pretty much the definition of a luxury brand and with such a price tag attached to it, I don't see how it's not ultra high-end. There's what, 0.01% of people in the Western world who can reasonably afford it ?
Yea this $500 Ferrari SF90 is not “ultra high-end luxury” because the $1M LaFerrafi exists
Wankery.
Entry level luxury. True luxury is owning a clock tower with a guilloche dial.
This is the response I was looking for lmao vertically attached is a large scale tourbillon powered by 3 blimps flying in a horizontal plane
too much money. although i did splurge on a 37mm AP Royal Oak but that was for a finally getting out of a toxic marriage congratulation gift to myself.
These are definitely entry luxury. Next step up would be something like Rolex. Grails would be something like AL&S datograph lumen or PP aquanaut travel time.
To be fair, I think OP is using something like this: https://www.watchuseek.com/attachments/watch-brands-2022-feb-18-png.16445120/ I myself own watches in sub 1k category and have a grail in 6-8k budget right now, but I know that watches like Lange and Vacheron Constantin exist. Overall I would say OP is a bit pretentious, because 10k watch is a total luxury, not an entry-level 😅
That GMT is a looker!
1st Picture - Grand Seiko ShoSho (SBGJ249) 2nd Picture - Grand Seiko Shunbun (SBGA413) 3rd Picture - Omega Seamaster Diver 300 M Master Chronometer
I wouldn't go with the Omega, at least that one. GS are really nice, but for the two you picked I'd be concerned about legibility of the hands. For the Shunbun, you really need to be able to embrace the pink dial, not everyone can. If you do go GS, I would only consider Spring Drive options. BTW, I just picked up the SBGA493 https://preview.redd.it/li9hgaucg0bc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=301891fe42d6349f7f9ebb36442628b65238bdb8
What does the small hand on the left do?
Power indicator
Nice! Alright, thaaaaaanks
It is the power reserve indicator
power reserve indicator
Why only Spring Drive?
It's a totally different type of regulation which doesn't use a traditional escapement but a tri-synchro regulator instead. There's several advantages, but high accuracy (better than virtually all quartz), and the sweeping second hand are the two you'll notice the most. The second hand doesn't tick at all, it sweeps fluidly. Nor does the watch make a ticking sound from a traditional escapement. So I'd suggest a Spring Drive model as then no matter how many watches you have in your collection, the GS will be unique to them all (unless you have multiple Spring Drive watches).
The sweeping second hand is for sure cool. I guess I don't understand the appeal of it being more accurate when im just going to use a fully digital watch if I actually need it to be supremely accurate and the appeal of the mechanical watch is in the beauty and effort that goes into making them so normally I see the fully mechanical high beat escapment wheel movements as equally desirable. But your last point does make a lot of sense, its different and makes it unique. That new acutron with the little electrical generating rotors seems to have the same appeal purely for being unique.
A Spring Drive is more accurate than a fully digital watch unless it's GPS synced. There's still a spinning regulation wheel on a Spring Drive, it just doesn't oscillate. A Spring Drive movement is just as mechanical as any other mechanical watch. Still a barrel, gears and wheels, exactly the same. The only difference is the regulation is spining with a brake instead of it oscillating (causing wear). It's wrong to think Spring Drive isn't fully mechanical, as it is. The difference is the added complexity of a tiny brake on the spinning regulation wheel that uses a quartz crystal to control the brake.
I mean it ISN'T fully mechanical, it has electronics
It's as fully mechanical as any mechanical watch, it just adds extra components which is really just a resonator connected to a brake.
"Its fully mechanical it just adds electronics" So its not fully mechanical It has electrical circuits. A watch that uses electricity and integrated circuits isn't completely mechanical. Its basically replacing the mechanical escapment with quartz. Its definitely cool, its definitely impressive engineering. Id love to have one, but its not fully mechanical.
It’s their best movement and what they’re famous for
Get the 1st one, but wait a few months for the economy to get worse, so you can ask for a bigger discount
That's what they said in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023. Also, election years are typically stable.
Yea, but if you look around other countries aren't doing too well and lots of layoffs are happening here.
See my post above...
Vote for the J249 here
100%! I picked this one up last year. The images don't do it justice. That dial is incredible and at that price, you can't go wrong. It's my everyday watch for work. I also loved the Shun Bun but the titanium just felt way too light for me.
Maybe it's the language barrier, but those are not "entry" luxury watches.
Gotta be the shunbun for me. A spring drive watch is a grail for me. I think I'd just look at the seconds hands all day.
Same. Grand Seikos look amazing regardless of the movement but IMO if you’re forking out for a GS you have to go spring drive as you can’t get that anywhere else.
The first watch is beautiful My picks would be 1. Shosho 2. Seamaster 3. Shunbun
Entry luxury my ass.
I own the sbga413 and am very happy with it. With a 10K budget you could get a secondhand Grand Seiko and add a less expensive dive watch on top of that. Like a Breitling superocean for example.
Seconding this. I picked up my Shunbun used for around 5k and find it gets tons of wear time.
Yup I agree, with a budget of 10k if you’re willing to go secondhand you can easily get the SBGA 413 + Tudor BB58 which I think would be a great combo for when the GS is too flashy, you can wear the tudor
Lmfao “entry luxury” proceeds to show all watches above 5,000$
Apologies on that, what would you classify as an entry luxury? Love to hear feedback!
Entry level luxury would probably be between 1,000 and 3,000. 3,000-5,000 mid-lower luxury, 5,000 and above is luxury, 10,000-15,000 is high end luxury, and 15,000$ and above is high horology. Imo.
15k covers most Rolex SS models. I’d say over 15k is either high horology or simply precious metal. Lots of brands will stick the same movement in their SS models in a PM case and charge triple
It's weird to have 3 strata for below 10k but only one for everything above 15k. A 3K tudor and 8k omega have more in common than a 50k aquanaut and 90k datograph perpetual calendar.
I tend to agree. I think in general below $1k is entry level, $1k to ~$3k would be mid level, and then above $3k is about where entry level luxury starts.
GS is a hard one for me for this particular case. I love GS watches and mine was one of my earlier high end pieces, but for that reason I can say I wouldn’t likely go that way. I also love the Seamaster, and that particular ref is gorgeous and I tried it on and felt super tempted to get it. That said wouldn’t recommend it for this. A first high end piece should have, imo, a bracelet unless you dislike them. That rules out the SMP, especially since on the bracelet it’s way more expensive due to the extra gold content. Plus the bracelet is divisive, and fairly so, imo, due to lacking taper. The GS watches kind of push back on certain expectations, and one of them is no micro-adjust. I have a *very* hard time imagining ever buying a high end piece again that lacks micro-adjustment. Further to that, quick-adjust, in fact. It would have to be a special case. GS is one of those where I’d consider it, as I have already, but for a first and only high end piece to lack it, is not “doing it right” imo. I propose this: The Speedmaster Professional 3861 Sapphire sandwich. (I’d recommend the hesalite, as I prefer it but it would rob you of certain “first and only watch” features that would make it less than ideal for you.) It is: gorgeous, an all time classic, in your budget, durable, has a display caseback, has a 5 year warranty, has a long service interval of 6-8 years, is useful as a timer, is luxurious, is tool-y, is available, METAS tested and super accurate, has super magnetic resistance, can be dressed up or down easily, has micro-adust, has a magnificently tapering gorgeous bracelet, is a good deal even with recent price hikes, is recognizable only to people who truly appreciate it (a massive bonus), and is one of the most cool watches ever made. It lacks: a date feature (controversial but a massive positive for me. Makes having multiple watches in rotation, down the line a breeze), an automatic winding system (also a plus for me, you’re in control, plus it’s a nice ritual) hesalite (less cool distortion, durability to knocks, less connection to space-going heritage, but since it’s your only luxury piece you’ll want to have no consideration for crystal upkeep and you’ll want to see the movement, plus the extra polished small links on the bracelet will scratch your craving for fancy) high water resistance (it’s “only” 50m but it’s really 50, and proven to be during METAS testing, so it’s not going to be killed by anything shy of careless use in water ie pushing the pushers or pulling the crown, not a “swimmer’s watch” really, but can be worn in water) Imo, consider it. Start with a real bang.
https://preview.redd.it/d8lvyd8ru0bc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=010e6c707d3d2e465d7ddb994ebfa13a4c5fd0fd I will always recommend Omega
first rec is a must: go put all of them on and see how you feel, take pictures with them on in shop. if you already did that and really are between the 3, then the GS GMT looks the best from the stock pics. just personal pref: if i were to spend 10k ish, i'd get a Cartier Santos and a Tudor Blackbay 58 (or 54). edit: if you finally settle on GS, look on Chrono24 and other sites as there are always really good deals from Japan on GS watches in great condition.
That Omega is 🔥
Try them on first. I LOVE the way the Grand Seikos look, but they're thicker than a lot of their competitors. I've owned two, and sold the automatic because of how it wore. It was a 37mm, so not large, either. I've tried on the Shosho and it's beautiful, but too thick for me. Always always always put an expensive watch on your wrist before you buy it.
Entry level would be Tudor or Longines, or a nice Hamilton
A $6k watch, especially GS or Omega, is not “entry-level”. Entry level is more along the lines of Longines, Oris, and maybe even Tudor. Also, these are all very different watches. As another mentioned, whatever you do, please get it on a metal bracelet. You can always add a strap at a later point for much cheaper than you can a bracelet. I got a Speedy for my first luxury watch, and one thing I wish I considered is what I really *want* from a watch. Of course I love my speedy and will never get rid of it, but at this point I wish I had picked something that is 1. Automatic winding, 2. Has a date function. Some other things to consider are WR (unless you actually go diving, these are all safe choices.
He said entry luxury. These are entry luxury.
They are not. lol. Like I said, Longines, Oris, Tudor, Sinn, etc are “entry”
I'd go for the SBGA413 unless you're really using the GMT function
The GS GMT 😍
I'd personally choose the cherry blossom GS but if you want something that would turn heads, get the Omega.
Shunbun, if you’re in Japan it’s much much cheaper due to weak yen 😁
That GMT is a fckn gorgeous piece
Ebel 1911
Pink gs
How do you dress (always casual, business casual, frequent suits, etc.)? Is there a watch style you like best (diver, dress, etc.)? Does a GMT complication suit your lifestyle - do you travel frequently? My first watch was an Omega SMP in black (not that gold one) as I love diving watches and avoid dressing up as often as possible but picked up a SBGA407 skyflake for “dressier” occasions. Based on the three watches above, I’d pick the GS GMT because the dial is excellent, a GMT complication is useful, and the steel/gold combo of the SMP looks odd to me. But all three watches are fine. What watch will work for YOU the most frequently?
My friend recently bought the pink Grand Seiko. I tried it on and it was not for me. I like the color, but it is very small and looks like a woman’s watch. I would not recommend for men with average to large wrists. It may come in other sizes, but I couldn’t see myself wearing it. Whatever floats your boat is what is right for you.
I do like the looks of the ShoSho, but I prefer bracelets over rubber straps.
"entry level"
Thanks for all the comments! Apologies for the misuse term of “entry-luxury.” I should’ve also clarified that my budget is 10K CAD which should be around $7500 USD. As for the watches, I’ve tried them all on and each stand out. Grand Seiko ShoSho - Dial is amazing, visibility is fine, GMT is great too but don’t think I’ll be using the GMT function as much. I still like the look of GMT and feel though regardless. Grand Seiko Shunbun - Titanium bracelet is great! Love the fact that it’s a scary light watch. Dial is great too, but again, compared to other 2, the pink may need to get used to. The Snowflake seems like a good alternative but the white dial doesn’t really scream out to me as much. Didn’t forget to mention the spring drive though which is absolutely mesmerizing. Omega Seamaster - Great watch as it reminds me of my very first watch I had when I was younger. Movement and quality can’t go wrong there. A bit chunky and big compared to the Grand Seiko’s but good nevertheless. Should be disclosed that I intend to buy this watch online perhaps from Jomashop of some sorts as it’s way cheaper compared to AD’s and fits my budget. (Thoughts if Jomashop is ok to use?) As for the price of the two Grand Seiko’s I’m able to receive a 20% discount on those two. For myself, I tend to roll towards watches that stand out visually in person while also taking into consideration the movement of course.
Jomashop is fine to use. I’ve bought many things from them and they’ve all been great.
This is luxury. Not entry luxury
Can we stop using the term "entry" for anything?
I would go with the Omega. In GS, spring drive is the only way to go which rules out the shosho. You probably don't want your first nice watch to be pink. That leaves the SMP. Omega makes a really accurate, well-engineered watch. My Planet oceans will keep time with any Rolex along with having much better fit/finish/QC than Tudor.
Any of these so long as it's preowned.
Grand Seiko and Omega “entry luxury” ?????
They are? What would you consider entry luxury?
Nothing really. If I had to attribute it to something probably a Tissot, longines…. Definitely not Omega or gs
they are. luxury would be vacheron, patek, ap, a lange, etc.
That's the ugliest seamaster I've ever seen
Any recommendations on other models?
all great choices but i would go with the gs gmt. i think it's more versatile than the other three which is good for a first watch
I don't think GS is a good entry brand tbh. Stick to the Omega!
Thanks for the comment! Any particular reason as to why?
I am projecting a bit about your age -- but GS is for me, a second or third watch for someone with a slightly slower life (or multiple watches to chose from, where GS is exclusively special occasions). I understand a bunch have bespoke hand polishing, and scratch/mar much easier than I would care for. I have worn my Omega tonnes, having owned it for 7 or 8 years now, and it handles it super well. Being a first watch I expect you'll wear it loads.
Agreed with Mr. Aster. The zaratsu polishing on both GS’s are significantly prone to scratch, regardless of hardening treatment. The benefits of the GS Sakura is how high that sapphire crystal sits on top of the case. It gives it that extra depth of warmth and it may protect the case when setting it down. Though, if you’re the type of man who doesn’t mind a noticeably scuffed watch overtime, GS is a good pick. The Omega is an excellent pick because 1. That gilt model stands out from the traditional blue, black, white dial picks 2. Easier brand recognition 3. Seamaster’s association with Jimmy Bond 4. Can be dressed up with a strap replacement or the OEM gilt bracelet 5. The ceramic bezel is significantly less prone to abrasion compared to the GS’s
If I’m spending around 10k, I’m not buying a GS personally.
Those are not $10k, closer to $5k
Yeah I know, just going off his budget in the OP.
Why everyone want to buy the same watches ? So many awesome micro brands out there with some crazy complications that you can actually afford .. collectible watches all started from nothing, in the future there will be many more brands that will hold value that can be bought today
Most people are followers. And most people use these items as a way of showing off money. They want the prestige. It is like buying Leica cameras.
Yea I’m noticing that now … I’m the opposite , doesn’t mean I buy cheap shit but I want new cooler modern designs , it’s much harder for a new company to make it in the watch game so they need it put out great stuff meanwhile the big boys can just rest on their laurels and put out junk most of the time
For some reason I really dislike GS, therfore I would go for an Omega. Here, for other options, I would suggest you take a look at Seamaster Diver 300M with the white dial or also the Planet Ocean
GS has become pretentious with endless limited editions and fabulous bling dials marketed as representing Japan. Most Japanese are understated and would take a plain Datejust. If you want to go Glam go GS
I’ve never understood the appeal of Grand Seiko and never will. Get the Omega. And def don’t buy used as someone else suggested.
Why? Perhaps you can elaborate by naming a brand you like and the reasons for it, and why GS doesn’t fit those reasons.
For the same reason I would never buy a VW Phaeton or Hyundai Genesis. And the same reason why Toyota, Honda, and Nissan were smart and created Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. I think of Seiko and I all I think of is cheap digital watches. No way I’m paying that kind of money to put a Seiko on my wrist. I don’t care if you call me a snob. It’s a crappy marketing decision on Seiko’s part. As for watch brands I like? Omega, JLC, Glasshuette Original, and Lange.
Hence the grand seiko name and not seiko
I don’t think you’re a snob bc you’re entitled to your opinions. I would, however, encourage you to post the qualities of the brands that you do like, and go see GS for yourself to see if it possess those qualities. From my perspective, it does. And I own JLC, Cartier, Rolex, Omega, and Tudor along with the GS. From objective measurement of what quality is, GS absolutely are on par (if not ahead) of those brands. Also, it’s good enough for Shohei when he signed his record breaking contract, so that’s good enough for me!
Is it going to be a keeper, or something you’re gonna flip? If a keeper then whichever GS you like. If you’re ever going to sell it, than the Omega. gS’ have shit resale, you can look to lose 40% - 50% in the first year.
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I can’t tell if you are trolling or not
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I take it you’re early in your watch journey? Learn more about Grand Seiko and don’t be one of the sheep that only knows about brands your favorite hip hop artist wears.
The GMT will be the most versatile.
All are very nice. My first “nice” watch was GS Snowflake and it’s still my favorite. Watching the smooth second hand with spring drive can be mesmerizing. Skyflake or Sunbun or maybe White Birch are good alternatives, but I prefer the more classic white dial. I’d think about those unless you are really sure pink is okay, especially if plan to wear a lot. I would not doGMT watch unless you travel a lot. Omega is also nice, but a different vibe. As others have said, you really need to try them on. There have been watches I wanted based on looks online but did not suit me when trying in person. Good luck!
Omega wins this one
I would go with the GMT. It is more versatile, and you could use it with a whole range of outfits
Omega. Hands down. They have my second dream piece. I got my first (Breitling).
The SBGA413 is the most versatile. It’s light, beautiful, and has a very comfortable case. You should be warned that the pink isn’t as pink as the press pictures. It’s very silvery until the light hits it just right. It’s definitely pink, but not as obvious as the pictures lead you to believe. In my opinion, this is a positive because it makes the watch even more special. I have the similarly pink dial (same color, different texture) on my SBGW289 and it’s incredibly charming. The SBGJ249 would be my second pick. All the reasons above, but with the added bonus of a GMT function. The case is a bit thick, but the center of gravity sits firmly at the center of the wrist, making it wear like a dream. Lastly, the Seamaster. It’s a fantastic watch. There is no wrong answer in this list. However, I find the Seamaster a bit boring and definitely less versatile. It’s a fantastic piece, but I think you’d be better served by either GS models.
Omega all day
GS !
Number 2 is 🔥🔥🔥
I really like the first one personally
Other: Speedmaster. I own and have owned many, like many here, but none have given me as much fulfillment as a speedy (especially with the new bracelet).
Thanks for the comment! Any particular model? I’ve already taken a look at the Speedmasters before. Really like the chronograph 324.23.38.50.02.002 & 324.23.38.50.02.001
Classic Moonwatch (true GOAT in watches): https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-speedmaster-moonwatch-professional-co-axial-master-chronometer-chronograph-42-mm-31030425001001 Otherwise, many other good editions to pick from (including the ones you posted), but none with as much significance as the one above. Here's another personal favorite though: https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-speedmaster-chronoscope-co-axial-master-chronometer-chronograph-43-mm-32932435102001
which one do you like most?
Not that omega
2 > 1 >>> 3 IMO Both of the Grand Seikos are SUPER hot.
Me personally I would look into a SpeedMaster first, even if it has to be used. What styles do you like? Have you checked anything like Chrono24 to get some ideas?
Looking for an everyday watch, I’ve taken a look at the Speedmasters before so any model in particular you’d recommend? Really like the chronographs 324.23.38.50.02.002 and 324.23.38.50.02.001
I just got a GS spring drive & love it. Maybe look at the GS sports collection for something that would be a great crossover. My GMT isn’t a diver but it’s rated at 200 meters - way past anything I’d do with it.
I’ve taken a look at the sports collection from Grand Seiko and find them just a bit too bulky for my liking. Really love the seasons collection though
True, they are big
I’ve see all of these in person. The Seamaster in gold really stood out to me. Have you seen these watches in person?
Yup, they all look gorgeous but the Seamaster does stand out the most I agree
Not fond of any of these. There are far better looking watches out there at your price range.
Thanks for the comment! Any in particular you are referring to?
Someone posted a Nomos they recently bought. Gorgeous watch
Lol those are straight luxury watches. If you dress nice, get one of the GSs. If you dress real casual, maybe the omega.
Grand Seiko all day long. They are spectacular. The polishing alone is not surpassed by any brand.
I have the Shunbun. I wanted my first GS to be a Spring Drive. The dial and finishing, it is unbelievable in person. Reviewers will say “flash of pink”, and they’re not kidding. You can’t take photos of that watch. It has to be seen in person. For 2023, mine was +8 seconds. For the year. Spring Drives are amazing. I do like a good GMT though. I think everyone should have one. That Omega has a lot of wrist presence. If you’re a twig like me, it’s going to stand out. You have to wear it, it’s your money. Try on all 3, and then you’ll know. Also, when you see the GS display case, there are at least 50 other watches that will distract you. I’m not kidding. Good luck.
Shunbun, it’s a GADA!
Omega. Always Omega
Personally I’d get the spring drive as a first watch, it’s the most accurate outta the three, and it’s not like any other watch. ALSO just look up how the second hand moves….. just a perfect sweeping glide all the way, no stutter. (Mesmerizing to see in person)
Seamaster all day. Not even close.
I bought the Shunbun for my wife for Christmas two years ago and it is really beautiful. I have my daily watch in for service and was going to wear the Shunbun the entire time. I only lasted a week and I didn't like it. It is beautiful, but is very feminine and catches a lot of light. I've instead been wearing my grand seiko hi beat GMT in green. My 2 cents from someone that owns a few watches at this level is if you can save up and would eventually want a Submariner, do that.
So many people here are getting tied up on the word “entry” instead of just answering the question. Calling them pretentious is overkill, too.
SBGA413 is a stunning timepiece. Don’t even consider the others.
I would go with the Omega Speed master, it's timeless and unmistakable.
That first GS is sexy
If it's your first ...go with a Tudor or Longines, maybe some would not refer to them as entry level luxury . But those two just got everything !!
Number 1, GMT
Interesting to see some words rile up so many. The budget to spend on watches is subjective and it’s completely fair to call these watches entry luxury.
fabulous. the watch guy teddy baldasarre has one.
\*a similiar one.
Omega
https://preview.redd.it/lrh40idks5bc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddb0adac9f10afc591e89b3d52d0f36980a9cb96 Go for the omega...I may be biased since I have it myself. In sedna Gold it is.
Just got the SBGA413 a few months back and damn people be looking.
Ignore all these clowns crying about the term “entry luxury”. Everyone has a different definition. I personally own a few omegas and I have to say the movement is only mid tier. IMO Grand seiko has a much better movement (spring drive). Buy the watch you think you’ll wear the most. Screw what other people think
$2k price range imo but that's still a lot of money. To see the brands they call entry level now is laughable because they don't have the prestige or history of some of the more well known brands is ridiculous...