I never believed she killed them, but I think people are looking for a logical explanation for why Chris snapped the way he did. I think we can justify how SW pushed him over the edge, but we can’t wrap our heads around why he would not only take the babies out too, but desecrate their bodies after and throw them out like trash.
Also a lot of times in this situation it’s easier to understand that maybe SW snapped first, a lot of mothers stuck at home with young kids can become overwhelmed and have poor mental health. Mothers suffering from untreated postpartum depression and psychosis and turning on their kids isn’t anything new, and a very valid explanation.
The terrifying reality is that CW is a psychopath, and normal minded people will never understand his reasoning. What’s scarier is that he was masking it for so long and hiding in plain sight without any kind of warning of what he was capable of. It’s such an ugly reality many don’t want to accept because it can easily happen to any one of us as well, and there’s little we can do to stop it.
They fooled me on a casual perusal at first, too 🤗 Autopsia Channel - now *that* was science.
Someone should download the videos on Meredith's channel, adulterated as they are, in case they disappear, too; the only evidence they ever existed.
I agree we will never understand him. That is really the best answer.
CW should’ve just been single. Dude had kids with someone who he should have known wasn’t his vibe (call her this or that but end of the day he wasnt true to himself). Want to sleep around? Don’t get married. Want to be Childfree? Don’t have kids and don’t have sex.
Cautionary tale to all those who marry someone - best to just leave if you fall out of love and don’t create lives you can’t cherish. Too many men kill their wives because they’d rather be a murderer than exposed as a cheater and divorced (I’m thinking of some pastors who did this).
this is the right answer imo. he should have have reflected more on what he wanted out of his life he wasn't true to himself. he seems very selfish. and it's crazy to think he would rather be a murderer than be divorced that's actually insane....
When I read the interview transcript where he bragged about how good of a liar he is by claiming he fooled his grade school teacher into believing he went on vacation to China, it just sickened me. Who thinks of that as a brag?
He’s honestly not that uncommon of a person - get another disgusting murderer. But also very stupid.
I think both things can be true, and that's why this case is so interesting. From SW videos and words and actions, I do think she was abusive and manipulative. You can say she wasn't abusive, I do not agree. However. I also think CW was a cowardly loser who killed his kids in cold blood. I think he hated Shannan so much he killed his children. I don't know why it has to be one or the other. From everything we have to view. The videos put up by SW, she was a weird abusive person and possibly had some mental issues. But I also think Chris is a POS who killed her and his kids. It's not one or the other. Both things happened. I don't think either should be downplayed. Yes, SW was a bad mom. No, it's not just her being quirky. I don't know what you know or saw. But having your kids sleep for 15-16 hours out of the day (this is fact and from her own mouth.) Neglecting them, spending every minute of her life advertising for a shitty MLM, belittling and being flat out abusive ON CAMERA, being manipulative and admitting to as much (her own words she tortured and was awful to Chris when they got together to try and push him away, or "train him") without going into more details... Doesn't take away Chris was a coward, and cold blooded murderer. I wouldn't hurt my damn cats let alone kill my children. He is a worthless piece of scum. Both are true. That's what makes this case interesting. I absolutely don't know how anyone can dive deeply into this case, see everything that happened and have a different view point. SW was very very messed up. I think she was a shit person and a worse parent. And Chris is worse for doing what he did. He had several ways out but he was a pathetic door mat who snapped. People are so black and white. It's either A or B, but they can't ever see the truth. Maybe it's C and both people were absolutely awful. The true victims are the children and nothing will change that. It's a terrible case. But that's why it's fascinating. Because both people were so awful
INo matter what people may think of Shannan,she and the kids did not deserve this terrible fate.I feel so very sorry for them and she absolutely did NOT kill her children.
How could he say that?.He's despicable,detestable,deplorable.
He claims he's found God and God will forgive him?While this is all very well,God will make sure he's kept behind bars for the rest of his miserable days.
I am so sad for Shannan and her girls.I often think of them.
I don’t know why this has to keep being said but 99% of people in this sub DO NOT THINK SW DESERVED TO BE MURDERED. We may think she was a horrible person but it’s very rare to see someone say she deserved it. I think Chris killed the girls but I can respect other people’s viewpoints without insulting them and saying they “need to get their head examined”
It probably needs to keep being said because people keep acting otherwise. “I’m not defending him, but…” is 100% a victim blaming statement. “I would have snapped too” is literally saying you understand why he did it and you’re justifying it.
No it’s because if you only read what the media puts out it’s absolutely baffling. But then when you learn more about what was really going on in their lives, like here on this sub, you can at least get an idea of how or why it got to this point.
I think people are just baffled by there is analysis of the victim of a family annihilator at all. He's a piece of human garbage regardless. So why dissect her? It's weird and gives murder apologist
also: I feel it bears mentioning that however awful some of Shannan's parenting and financial decisions may have been, it is by definition never going to be as awful as anything Chris Watts did in response. For example: Some accuse her of abuse because of some of her parenting choices (I think that's a strong term, but reasonable people can disagree about some of that)---even if it was, it pales in comparison to Chris, who coldheartedly MURDURED the two toddlers while they (if he is to be believed) lay holding each other next to their mother's corpse.
Most people don't comprehend that what Chris did outweighs anything Shanann did. It's puzzles me how they think. The reality in the end is Chris was ultimately the worst parent. And to make it worse how the girls were disposed of and how Chris ate pizza while watching videos of his girls in the interrogation room.
That was something I can't forget. Him chomping on that pizza right in front of the picture of his two daughters. Plus you got to relize it was only hours after he stuffed him down the oil tank, just hours. He never flinched. Stupid pin head
Let's call it what it is; misogyny. I've seen people pretty much admitting they can see why Chris Watts 'snapped' as if committing murder is a normal thing to do when you've 'snapped.' I mean, he's a literal child killer and people devote hours of their time online finding reasons to hate HER. And worse, some people stoop even lower and talk shit about the actual kids. It doesn't matter how shit SHE was as a parent now because they're all dead. I think choosing to broadcast your entire life on social media is a really sad way to live and I certainly think kids should be kept well and truly away from all that but again, what's the point in dragging someone who isn't even around to defend herself?
Normally I absolutely detest all the ridiculous misogyny in the true crime community and I think NK was guilty of wishful thinking and believing a liar because she liked a man, but I think that's all NK is guilty of.
But for me we want to understand this case more so we discuss all the family dynamics. I do think a lot of people like me just feel bad about certain things regarding the kids.
I have rarely seen anyone say anything bad about the kids. I personally don't see how the kids were "developmently delayed," but it's extremely ableist to suggest that someone saying they were- is "saying bad things".
I did see someone make a bad "edgy" sick joke about the girls once on Youtube comments.
I hope most of us who are intrigued by this are not blaming Shanann in any way.
You can legitimately think that Shanann was maybe a bit controlling and not the best mum/wife at the same time as thinking CW is an evil b**tard who had zero right to do what he did.
Not being perfect does not give anybody a reason to kill you. Who is perfect anyway? We all have faults.
I am not apportioning any blame to Shanann at all, no reasonable person would.
But I think many of us are honestly just trying to make some sort of sense as to how an apparently mild mannered submissive man turns family killer in such a short period of time.
It absolutely baffles me.
Both SW and CW are to blame for the extreme dysfunction in that house.
Calling us misogynists because we see the FEMALE children are being abused is laughable. Do your research.
Yeah I am a rational feminist meaning not a man hater. I normally get quite pissed off about the tremendous amount of misogyny in the true crime community, but a lot of people in this community are genuinely not about that. They feel horrified after seeing and hearing evidence that one of the little girls ate her own feces and either played with or drank toilet water. That preschoolers had water squirted repeatedly in the face and cream smashed in the face while crying. That a little girl who reportedly asked and begged for long hair had boy style hair cuts over and over possibly as punishments for thumb sucking although the reason for the hair cuts is not proven and can only be inferred. That requests by Bella were blatantly ignored such as requests for long hair, requests for no boy hair cuts, request for "Let it Go from Frozen," to be played by the Alexa, requests for a brand new Elsa waterbottle for Christmas, requests for a spoon when CeCe had a spoon to stir during "baking", request to watch a football game or at least a few minutes of it, request for an immediate bite of Thrive cinnamon bun bar when hungry, request not to have water squirted in face, request not to have cream smashed in face---ALL denied on camera
Consent wasn't much of a thing in Bella's life. Culminating in "Daddy no," denied. 😭😭😭🤢😭😭😭
This is the saddest thing I’ve read in a long time…
That poor baby.
I just wanted to pick her up and take her to Cinnabon for all she could eat cinnamon rolls and frosting- not a gross thrive bar.
Search "Watts the Obsession," and "Neeks Peeks Watts" on YouTube. Also search "True Crime Loser Chris Watts," on YouTube although TCL doesn't have any videos, but his take is a good listen.
Actually I'm trying to look up a source where you could see the videos without all the YouTuber commentary but I have forgotten but I know I jotted down the names of those YouTube channels on my Samsung notepad so I'm trying to find them.
It's not a normal thing at all to murder someone, but you can absolutely snap and do it. When you're at the point you've snapped, rationality doesn't come into play at all. He definitely killed them and horrifically disposed of their bodies, and that should never be excused or defended. But snapping means you do things completely out of character bc you hit your breaking point.
But you are also thinking clearly. I'm pretty sure the fact that he wasn't sleeping thanks to being on uppers was pretty much the difference in that. Thrive has not only regular caffeine in it (70mg) but is made with Guarana (In addition, a [2023 reviewTrusted Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9865053/) of eight placebo-controlled studies states that pure guarana can contain up to 5.3% caffeine, while espresso coffee contains about 0.21% caffeine) and Green Coffee Bean Extract.
Side effects include:
* Anxiety or jitteriness.
* Dehydration.
* Frequent urination.
* Headaches.
* Increased heart rate.
* Trouble sleeping.
* Upset stomach.
So even though it has a low level of actual "caffeine" listed it's really way higher (deceptive advertising).
He was also double patching and he was drinking it in his sports bottle all day long.
I agree. A lot of people also kept saying that baby Nico was not the monster’s. I believe if I remember correctly that the rumor was started by the monster’s mother and backed by the monster’s crack smoking father. DNA doesn’t lie. Nico was Chris’s.
‘Some accuse her on her parenting choices’ and ‘reasonable people can disagree on that’
You have not watched any of her footage, you have based your opinion on reading a few articles.
Most people in this sub, have opinions that are based on watching HER and her interactions with her children, CW..unaltered, as she truly was, living her life..endless hours of LIVE footage..that she willingly and purposefully presented to the world.
I have yet to find anyone that actually agrees with any of her behavior, how she interacted and treated her kids and husband. Most people are privy enough to see that it is completely inappropriate, abusive and scary..to ignore she was capable of killing her kids, is just ridiculous. Her own friends and family knew this, they knew to check on her, the whole ‘check the knives’ I mean…would you say that after your friend of sound mind and incapable of hurting herself or others is missing for a mere few hours? Nope..
Supporting her parenting choices, not a hill I would ever want to die on.
I am not dying on a hill or "supporting her parenting choices". However, calling it abuse seems incorrect. My point is mostly that in cases pf true abuse, we advocate removing kids from the home and having them live in foster care. We all know foster care isn't usually great for kids. So, before I would say someone else is abusive, I would ask myself, "is this worse for the kids than going to foster care?" if not, I don't consider it abuse, just crappy parenting.
I have watched a lot of the videos and I think she appears inattentive and at times, makes "jokes" at her kids expense that are in poor taste. Also, filming little kids constantly is poor parenting (see: family influencer channels). But abuse? I think that delegitimizes what a lot of kids who are actually abused face.
I also think individual parenting moments could be considered abusive for most parents. like, if someone loses their cool and completely yells at their kid in a cruel manner or calls them a name or something. However, if it's a single-time or very rare occurence in an overall pattern that meets *at least* the bare minimum parenting standards, saying the parent is abusive is incorrect. Unfortunately, many people are crappy parents, but it isn't necessarily malicious.
“If it’s worse than foster care” is like saying oh he’s a good man because he neglects me but doesn’t beat me senseless. Foster care is terrible and the lowest bar you could set
Yes, foster care is horrible! That’s why I’m not sure what people would have wanted for the girls. Was having a chronically online MLM mom who apparently lacked empathy for them worse than getting removed from their home and sent to foster care? I don’t think it was.
my opinion is that while anyone thinks her treatment elevated to the level of “true abuse” or whatever the fuck they want to split hairs over, it was very clearly malicious the way she treated Bella.
I do think the Babywise "Cry it out" method is abusive, and I do think cutting Bella's hair all the time when she wants long hair is abusive, and ear surgery for both kids on the same day when they're not even twins is weird as fuck, and smashing cream in the face of a kid that's not into this "game," and cries is kinda abusive.
But police are not arresting for any of that. And CPS are scanning your report to them and filing it in the circular file.
She regularly belittled her family to feel superior. She came first period. Those little girls didn’t give a crap about matching shirt pics. And 100’s of them to boot! How tacky already.
Cutting Bella’s hair? Thats sick shit.
Cece drinking toilet water. Disgusting.
If she was living in a ghetto apt those kids probably would’ve been on the radar.
She had a cps case from Bella at 10 months old. Wtf?
It’s in the discovery somewhere. Bella was 10 months old. BUT Chris only got a letter in JAIL dating case closed bc child deceased. Absolutely insane. There r tons of skeletons still her family tried to squash
Right. It was a form letter. But still, all this squashing of shit SHE did is wrong. Nobody says she deserves to be murdered. But what happens in the dark comes to light! Every single time! Death does not exempt!
As fact? I think they avoided it at all costs. There was no point to bring it in after Chris confessed so fast. But in the discovery that letter to him is there so it was a thing. Prob we will never know
Well I’m just really glad your not a mandated reporter, not working in any type of social work or working with children in any capacity since you seem very confused about what abuse is, and therefor incapable to advocate for actual victims of abuse..
Finally! The most level headed thing I've read on this sub. The way some of the others just lay in to Shanann as if she deserved to be murdered is really quite disturbing. I stumbled across this sub because this case had me in a choke hold. I'm grateful to the contributors here who have shed light on CW and SW relationship together, but the name calling and the slagging off of SW and her friends is strange to me.
i completely agree with you. i don’t agree with *many* of Shannan’s parenting choices at all, the Babywise nonsense was insane IMO. but there are people here who will fight tooth & nail to defend Chris saying it’s HER fault he snapped? it’s ridiculous. nobody ever deserves to be murdered in cold blood like that. he should’ve just left her.
it reminds me of the way some people vehemently defend Bryan Kohberger in the Idaho 4 case & swear he’s innocent, while blaming the victims saying they were involved in “shady shit”. the internet has made me realize a lot of people don’t see these as real life, legitimate cases. they see these as a TV show with characters to make conspiracy theories about.
i’m all for listening to new information & hearing different perspectives but id be lying if i said i wasn’t concerned about some things i’ve read lol.
I think it’s a way people protect themselves from the harsh realities of life. If they can break things down in a way they can distance themselves from being a victim- then it can’t happen to them. Unfortunately, in order to do so, one must victim blame. It’s easier for some people’s brains to digest, than accepting than men like Chris exist. “ I would never be like SW ,therefore I cannot be harmed by a CW “, is protective thinking that ignores uglier truths and horrors. CW wasn’t pushed to snap. His easy going , passive demeanor was an act and a mask. It’s how he got what he wanted in life.
Same with- I can’t be murdered by a BK, the roommates must have been in in it or I would never be so traumatized like the roommates were. In cases of DV or SA we see similar narratives. That would never happen to me because I’m this way or that happened to them because they are _______. It’s easier for some people to wrap their heads around. It’s about creating personal distance from being a victim.
Me and you both. We are living in new times being bombarded by lies from many fronts trying to bury what the truth is or trying to give justification for the lies especially by a certain group. I always search for the truth; you must or we will all be lost.
I don't think she killed the girls BUT had Chris gone down the legal route of separation and divorce I would not have put it past her to do anything. She had to have a perfect life. Being divorced isn't perfect. She treated Chris like shit. I could see that in 1 video where she commanded him like a dog. People may have opened their eyes if she was being divorced.
I genuinely don't understand how you can be obsessed with this case, but then want to shut down when someone brings up the fact that SW may have killed her kids. There is no evidence of the kids getting into Chris's truck that morning. No one will ever know the truth with how much he has lied at this point. She gave them meds to put them to sleep every night and made them take long naps during the day. Then people want to defend her by saying she needed her "me time". She had plenty of time away from them. They went to daycare!! And she woke up super early while they were still sleeping! She clearly only needed them for views. She may have had an amazing time on her trip away from her kids and then snapped if they had woken up when she got home from being exhausted from her trip and being pregnant. Know one will ever know the truth.
People's reactions to this case genuinely piss me off sometimes.
In my opinion, Shannan did seem somewhat emotionally abusive towards Chris. That will NEVER justify MURDERING her and THEIR TWO DAUGHTERS??
Hearing people say like. "Oh yeah she deserved it she was a bitch" HUH??? A HARD CONVERSATION, MAYBE. A DIVORCE, DEFINITELY.
BUT MURDER ??? And then being accused of killing her daughters?? Bffr😭
Exactly. It’s kind of scary knowing how many random people just vehemently hate a murdered woman (and her children) who they’ve never even met and would ever have heard of had she not been a victim of an awful tragedy
Shannann was severely mentally ill and an abusive mother. She left ridiculous amounts of video and digital evidence documenting this on the internet. This doesn't mean she deserved to be murdered but it is not fair to declare everyone who has taken the time to examine her activity online as needing their head examined. Maybe you think the people who are making conclusions are crazy when really they are just pointing out the truth of the situation.
I implore you to break out of your black and white thinking. Black and white thinking in this case is what keeps us all in an infinite loop where this case doesn't make sense. Of course any parent murdering their own child NEVER makes sense... but that is not why we are all so obsessed with this case. It is because the official narrative doesn't make sense. There is more to it and we can all sense it. Something is hidden.
Chris was bad, Nichol was bad, and Shannann was also bad. The only people who do not deserve scrutiny are the innocent children who died.
There's just no evidence that she did that though. The detectives would have discovered that if it was at all true, because of this schmuck and his side pieces horrific and not very smart plan, were not good at covering their tracks. It's nonsense.
The only way there would have been physical evidence is if Chris didn't kill Shannann or hide the bodies. He hid the bodies because he didn't want to get prosecuted for killing Shannann which we know 100% without one doubt that he did. The girls bodies were in tanks so there is no physical evidence of who actually killed the girls, besides the fact that Chris dumped their bodies. That is evidence in itself and all that exists, so in a court of law he is toast. There is a motive and evidence he is responsible for their death even though there is no documentation or fingerprints on their bodies of him actually doing the act. They didn't die from being drowned in oil. The autopsy showed they were smothered.
We have lots of video evidence that Shannann was capable of harming the girls in quite a sadistic manner. She documented it and posted her abusive behavior online. THAT is why this theory won't go away.
There is no video evidence of Chris being mean to the girls or anyone else. Also he is a chronic liar so nobody trusts him farther than they can throw him, so that also adds to the WTF factor. He has lied so much nobody believes anything he says.
There isn't any video that provides evidence that Shanann was capable of killing the kids. Being a lousy parent isn't evidence thst you are capable of murder.
What evidence is there to say Chris did it?
Not saying he did or didn’t.
Let’s say his story is true and he called the cops with Shanann being alive.
What are the odds he doesn’t get convicted in this and that societal structure?
He was the only one in the house who survived. He was the last one seen leaving the house. The bodies were buried at his work place, the same place he went the day they went missing.
His story isn't true. Shanann wasn't alive.
My theory is Nicole was over the house Saturday or Sunday, and they went in the office and Nicole saw the extent of the financial problems, and explained to CW like he was a 5 year old how bad it was…because we know he was completely ignorant to anything going on prior to that. Didn’t even have access to his own bank account online..had to call the actual bank. Which he only did if Shannan told him to..
I guess what I’m asking is, where did this info come from about him not being allowed to access the account, being in so much debt, and how/when did he find out?
Well he made the money, it went to their account and he never seen it. He had no access to it, and had to call. There was her texting him to call the bank about an Uber charge or airport parking. Listen to his interview, still thought she made an income, when she made no money, and just spent all his.
They had a bankruptcy before, so I mean he knew she was a moron with money, but she controlled everything, and he literally was just a door mat and did what ever she said. Clearly he was dumb enough to believe what ever she said, and she was dragging to bankruptcy #2, and it was all coming to a head that week.
Looking at her videos and seeing how SHE had everything to lose, not him..it’s clear as day who had the motive..her. How she could have done it, I have no idea.
Only thing I can think of is she came home, and went in the room with the girls, strangled them..took something…something with fetanyl perhaps? ( I do think she was abusing pain meds) Or to much of her pain meds, and told Chris, I know your cheating, the kids are dead, I just took enough to OD, and guess what, your the husband with a mistress…your going to jail for this lol Chris is so dumb he likely believed he was screwed…knew was going to be the suspect no matter if he called the police or if he dumped them…all the lying though idk, makes no sense.
This is a very good theory. She definitely said something to Chris that till this day he won't say what it was. Everything was about to blow up and I think she didn't know where to turn, so she walked in the house that night and picked a fight with CW and the rest who knows....
He learned about the HOA situation when she was in NC and he was served with the notice to appear from the courts. He asked her about it and she said she had been sending the payments to the wrong address, for over a year. I'm pretty sure notices had been sent to them by mail for non payment before the filing in the court.
Yeah it is my opinion that Shanann was severely mentally ill. It's YOUR opinion that it's not the "truth." The evidence that she was severely mentally ill is in her videos and social media posts.
Obviously, CW was also mentally ill.
Do you have a psychological evaluation in hand that declares she was cleared of all diagnosis of personality disorders and mental illness?
I'm not trying to accomplish anything but learn about this case, and understand how something like this tragedy could have happened. SW's mental illness was a contributor to how it ended up happening. However, we are never going to find out the truth because CW hid the bodies and keeps changing his story.
I don't know what happened to my comment. I didn't delete it.
I hope you leave because you are not contributing anything meaningful to the discussion here and you don't seem to be willing to have an open mind and actually read this subreddit in any kind of depth. Sounds to me like you like to come here to feed your sense of moral superiority. You picked the wrong person to attack, because I really don't care about what you think of my opinions, and I am certainly not feeling ashamed... so you wasted your time.
If you don’t like someone’s opinion, you can go to other subs. We do not walk on eggshells here. We discuss the victimology side of this case. If that is not to your liking, this may not be the sub for you.
Then... What are you doing here?
You know what the sub is about.
You wrote that there is nothing anyone can say to change your opinion, so it's not like you're interested in knowing what everyone else thinks.
If you are convinced that the case is resolved you can continue with your day.
yeah. you're right.
You should not justify yourself to anyone, just as no one should justify themselves to you.
and if everyone is jumping to justify themselves it's because of the "examined head" part which is lol, whatever
and I don't know what's funnier that everyone jumps at that little provocation (which doesn't even count as such) or your post.
but hey! activity in the sub is activity at the end of the day. so whatever
Wait people actually think Shannan killed the kids? Chris admitted to killing them… more than once… why would anyone ever admit that? Especially Chris who was obsessed with coming off as the “nice guy.”
>Chris was prompted by the agents to say Shannan did it as part of the Reid interrogation method. (You get them to admit to a (fake) lesser offense first, in order to poke holes in their story or open the door for the admission of what actually occurred)
It's not the Reid interrogation method! That officer/agent/interrogator could've easily helped Chris with a great defense in court
*An alternative question must be based on the assumption that the suspect actually committed the crime under investigation. In other words, if the suspect accepts the alternative question, it must represent an admission of guilt. It would, therefore, be improper to ask a suspect who was being interrogated concerning involvement in a drive-by shooting, "Did you fire that gun or do you just know who did?" Given this choice, the suspect guilty of firing the gun will certainly accept the latter choice because it allows him to escape consequences of his crime. Under this circumstance, the investigator has spent considerable time during the interrogation eliciting a non-incriminating statement from the suspect. If the investigator now re-confronts the suspect concerning principal involvement in the offense, the interrogation may last several more hours, which could result in the suppression of any subsequent incriminating statements under the grounds of duress. To reiterate, both sides of the alternative question must represent a choice that would result in an admission of involvement in the offense if the suspect accepts either one e.g., "Were you carefully aiming at that little boy, or was this just a wild shot from your gun?"*
Criminal Interrogation and Confessions (Chapter 13 The Reid Nine Steps of Interrogation, page 296)
https://www.google.se/books/edition/Criminal_Interrogation_and_Confessions/wTzjCJj4OSEC?hl=sv
If Chris didn't murder his two girls and just killed Shannan, do you think he would have not been sentenced to life. Especially if he had people testifying in his defense how she treated him and the spending, and everything she did to her family?
this. everyone wants to jump to NK being an accomplice when the evidence is just not there. a deep analysis of her interviews after the murder makes it obvious but people latch onto the idea just because she searched her boyfriend’s wife’s name on google.
I am not saying NK was, or was not, involved, but one argument I read that I believe is incredibly valid is that there is no evidence to support that NK was involved… just as there is no evidence to support that NK wasn’t involved. It is indeed factual that she lied to law enforcement (via her interviews), and it is indeed factual that she was never investigated. Before it is claimed that law enforcement had no reason to investigate her…. lying to law enforcement is absolutely a reason to investigate, and that goes for anyone. That is why people continue to speculate.
As you would to be honest. I imagine it is just how people's minds work when they start an affair. You would check the competition.
I am not saying she is a nice person, I don't know her, she might be a b**ch, she might be lovely....but whatever, the hate and baseless accusations she gets are disgusting.
exactly. you’re going to search her online and see what the full situation is. chris was telling NK that him and shannan were divorcing but NK didn’t fully believe him so i’m sure the natural reaction would be to look up shannan and see what she’s saying online to try and get the full story. shannan posted her entire life on social media, googling her name was bound to reveal info.
I see people viciously insulting NK. calling her an evil homewrecker, accomplice, etc. there’s just no evidence to back any of that up. the only evidence is that chris lied to her by saying he was getting a divorce which made her feel like it was okay to keep seeing chris.
people even say how ugly she is and how much better shannan was than her but if i’m being honest as a guy, NK is/was a smoke show lol
But if she googled Shannan’s name because she didn’t believe him about the divorce, chances are she’d see her social media detailing her wonderful perfect life with her wonderful perfect husband so she must have known she was getting involved with a guy who was very much still married and very much not getting a divorce.
that’s where an arguement on this topic usually happens. facebook doesnt let you see someone’s full post history unless you’re their friend, been that way for a while. if she did happen to stumble upon one of the thrive influenced family videos, im sure chris would downplay it as “she has to make those videos for work, its not real”
Only if the person has their privacy settings set that way. Before stuff was cleaned up and removed by her family, looky loos were able to go take a million screenshots of her profile. Besides if it was recent posts she was bound to see enough to realize that Shannan had no idea they were getting divorced.
THANK YOU. I’ve been big into this case since it happened, and i’m glad we have this subreddit to discuss the case, but i’m so tired of seeing people saying that Shanann killed the kids. As awful as Shanann was, she did NOT kill them. Chris admitted it and all the evidence shows HE did it. Case closed. I don’t know why some people just can’t accept that.
I think chris killed them all but it would not surprise me if shanann killed the girls. Imo both parents were awful. I think cw was a bad parent even before he killed everyone. Sw was beyond selfish and lacked empathy for her own children
Unless you know someone who has a similar personality as Chris Watts you truly cannot comprehend how he could have done this because he “appears“ normal. The key word with him is that he appeared normal, but take my word for it he never was and never will be. People like him are great imitators of a normal human, but in reality they are as cold as a robot. He is a true definition of a psychopath, the scary thing is there are no visible signs to identify such a person until they do something heinous.
I would highly recommend a book by Robert D. Hare, PhD, titled: Without Conscience, if you want to learn more about these types.
I never thought she killed them. However I do think she had a lot of mental issues that she put on the kids and her husband. In many ways she reminds me of my female family members (one of whom was just diagnosed at 65 as bipolar). The narcissism, the need to make her kids "perform" for strangers, the health issue obsessions. I really think Chris was just at his limit- she had him doing all the work, at home, at actual work, with the girls, he wasn't sleeping because he was on thrive (basically uppers which might as well have been amphetamines.) I think he just snapped.
I do not believe this theory can be discounted so readily and I totally understand the emotions behind the reasons to completely discount the victim SW as not the one that killed those girls. CW has said he did it apparently, because they manipulated him into saying he did with the Reid technique. That the hamburglar was soo incredibly fantastic at her job that he crumpled up and took the bait. could this be true? Absolutely it can and could be the case.
However they did a poor job at impartial investigation into this murder, especially into the girls murder. There is no concrete evidence that CW killed the girls, it's concrete to me that he killed SW and for that he is where he is, no one has any right to kill anybody.
If CW had plead not guilty the state would have not had enough evidence imo to convict CW. During the interview, which is hours long he didn't admit to killing them at all, he said he saw SW strangle the girls so he did the same to her. The girls were smothered not strangled. A huge difference.
In a trial with a shit hot attorney armed with the background to Sw parenting, alongside the plethora of inappropriate pictures SW posted of medical abuse of every kind, the state of mind written in her own words to friends, the financial situation, the abandonment of her husband for another woman while she is pregnant, this would definitely be a reasonable doubt that she could have motive and 'could' have been driven to kill the girls. That he then retaliated out of rage and grief and strangled her. Therefore, giving a motive and reason to raise a conviction of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But as they tied compliant people pleaser CW up in a nice neat bow he signed his rights away. There was no trial and the burden of proof never met.
No-one knows beyond a reasonable doubt which one of the Watts parents killed the girls, there is a reason we are still discussing this murder and its because many do not believe that a man even as despicable as CW, who definitely disposed of his family in a heinous manner and definitely strangled the life out of his wife is not entitled to defend himself, he showed how little he defended himself and expressed his feelings to his wife, let alone a massuse named Tammy, who was aalso a police officer. If a man was massaging a female prisoner during a legal interview, would he not be accused of SA???.... CW was clearly manipulated by Tammy to get a confession by the wrong means, abusing her position, by not following facts or the law, the Reid technique is highly flawed, especially with weak people.
I have high suspicion that SW did kill the girls out of despair and altruistic reasons. She was at the end of her tether and was an angry, jealous woman. she had run out of money, didn't want her baby, no job, no home, no husband and nowhere left to go. Had SW lived she would have lost the big trophy house, Chris paychecks, Thrive fake wealth look at me in my big house, lexus gone. No daycare at 25k a year. Life, had she not been killed looked bleak for her. Her parents house beneath her and told she needed to qualify for the next too big house in NC. She had run out of chances and grifting opportunity.
I understand by posting this I am exactly the type of person who is classed as wrong for even considering the fact that SW is a child murderer, and if folk don't want to listen to my theory, that's fine. I don't need my head examined at all, there is no reason for a person who thinks critically and supports a fair and transparent judicial system is not thinking quite rationally imo.
My reasons do not come from a place of hate for SW, I dislike her for her treatment of the girls and I am not keen on people who show off on social media instead of just getting on with being a mother. I have researched women who kill their children and why they do it. Many do so for revenge against being left for another woman, some do so as they don't want to live anymore and to protect their children from them being gone, they take them with them, some because they have post partum depression. There are many more reasons and SW is a candidate for investigation.
I would like to invite those who find it impossible to believe she had markers to look into other cases and compare the pictures of those women and the background to the child murders and still not have a tiny amount of reasonable doubt that the first confession of CW was the true one.
We all have opinions and the truth is NONE of us will really know. Now if you claim to have a crystal ball of sorts then if I were you I’d be somewhere betting on the lotto or some horses and not in this sub
Good thing I’m not in the business of thinking about if my thoughts on this case are “valid” to someone.
SW was abusive af to the children. She also told friends over txt she didn’t want the baby etc etc.
In my OPINION it’s possible that she harmed the children based on her previous behavior. That will not change because someone else can’t possibly accept that
Bingo. Folks try and say that was her way of asking if he was only staying married for the kids. However in the context of the entire convo it reads differently to me.
She didn’t even want the last baby and said so in txts
If you are referring to tge Wisconsin interview that was a coerced interview. His account of the actions that night/morning in that interview is almost verbatim of a letter he received 2 weeks prior from a woman who detailed a dream she had about the case.
Think about it, he pled guilty, was sentenced to 5 LWP sentences but yet 3 months later LE interviews him again?
Are you willfully ignoring all of Shannon’s traits of several severe and dangerous personality disorders and all of her abuse just because she was the mother? How can you ignore all of the terrible things she did and said to her husband and children? If she were a man, the father, and displayed the abuse like she did, you would not have any problem naming Shannon as the child killer.
You really should have started your post with "in my opinion" because let's face it, none of us were there. In my opinion, sw was the one who hurt the girls.
MLM hun? Lol. Maybe research them. Plus her entire fake world was about to be exposed if Chris left.
Idk if she killed her kids or not. But I can’t say absolutely she didn’t. She was a rager when she didn’t get her way. It’s all tragic.
Thank you for your opinion.
but I know in some of the most sensational media driven stories the mother is often the killer (Andrea Yates, etc)
I also know Shannan posted a photo of a doll on social media wrapped in a sheet, implying a dead body.
She may have been a hun, but she was completely unstable and about to lose her entire fake life. She would no longer be the rich mom in a big house. She would no longer be the successful businesswoman in a rented Lexus. So would no longer be able to FOOL anyone.
Chris was only worried about his little buff mountain climber "dude" in a woman's body and her whiny 111 minute rant.
"Go watch the FBI interrogation footage" I have. 1000 times. oh and they hit a wall, he failed the poly and kept lying. So they applied pressure to a loved one - Nikki. "I can't leave here and think SHE had something to do with this". He was free to say "go ask her" or "get her down here".
The Reid Technique per Wiki "The technique is known for creating a high pressure environment for the interviewee, followed by sympathy and offers of understanding and help, but only if a confession is forthcoming." He didn't have to confess to committing to a lesser crime - he could have just lawyered up.
Without concern for Nikki's privacy or comfort he would have never confessed to anything because that day, that's all he cared about. Graham was obviously sharp enough to use his training in that situation.
According to the information I found, fathers are more likely to kill their kids.
This article states that 57% of children were killed by fathers, and around 40% were killed by mothers.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/07/health/filicide-parents-killing-kids-stats-trnd/index.html
Odd that this even needs to be said or declared as a normal human of above average intelligence would have already come to this conclusion years ago.
That said, knowing how stupid the average human being is, it's hardly shocking that people don't believe we landed on the moon, people believe in fairy tales called "religion", flat earth and of course, that do believe that Shannan killed her kids while Hero Watts stormed in to deliver justice and is now wrongly incarcerated lol
One thing you learn about human beings spending a lot of time manipulating them, is that most of them are idiots.
So true. I always thought the worst part of getting murdered would be the getting murdered part, but it’s actually the amount of time and energy complete strangers will spend combing through your real or imagined flaws to justify your murderer’s actions.
At the end of the day there is absolutely no proof as to who killed those girls. It was basically case closed once that weird "confession" came out. Only 2 people know the truth. One is dead and the other is a lifer. I'm on the fence as to who did what but she had far more to lose than he did imo. Her carefully crafted fake house of cards would have come crashing down had their marital issues come to light.
This! When people say she did and why else would Chris say that, it infuriates me. If they watch the interview at all the interviewer prompts him to say that, to which he immediately confesses with that exact scenario that she just laid out.
Ok let’s say we’ve not seen the footage of Chris’s interrogations.
1) Shannon never had the phone out of her hand constantly on social media with that scratchy victim/strong woman voice.
2) If she did indeed kill the children then why would he cover that up and take the steps he did? Is the theory Shannon killed the children dumped the body’s where Chris was working, she took very little interest in him as it was unless she was telling the world he farted and thrived. A plausible defence would be she killed my children so I killed her, but no he admitted to suffocating his little girls in the car. The “Are you going to do the same to me Daddy?” Then stuff them like trash. Then call the estate agents after just hiding 3.5 body’s from the site!
I truly believe that he killed them all and he had one day snapped and then living with her speaking with her for the years his feeling went to hatred, so he planned it all.
If she killed the children where is the phone call to emergency services?
This isn't a defense of the SW as the kids killer theory, but I think the logic behind why if that had happened, Chris wouldn't call emergency service is that: Shannan and Chris ague and se is upset about cheating or separating, etc. The fight subsides and she, instead of going to sleep, gives something to the girls that kills them or smothers them or something - like in a Greek tragedy. Chris discovers this and in a rage over discovering Shannan killed the girls, Chris murders Shannan and the unborn child. Once its done, Chris won't call emergency service because he's also responsible for murder and it would be assumed he killed all of them; also, there may be a part of him that feels guilty about his actions leading to this terrible end. He haphazardly moves the bodies, buries them, etc, thinking maybe he can make it seem like Shannan ran off with the girls somewhere. Maybe he planed to get rid of her truck later that day, but Shannan's friend foiled it by calling the cops. In any event, thats why there was no call to emergency services. Like i said, this isn't a defense of the SW killing the kids theory, but its the obvious reason why there wasn't an emergency call like posed in your comment.
The only thing that leads me to him being the killer is, a few comments that were made apparently by him, in the interview police lead him to that explanation in order to obtain a confession and the location of the bodies, he took it and ran with it. Also somewhere although I read this he’s since stated he did it with their blankets in the car, then he killed them before killing her in the perfect husband book, he apparently stated NK manipulated him into doing so. His account simply wouldn’t change also followed up with Shannon used his kids against him saying he wouldn’t see them again and he was being emasculated by the children how much of this is actual truth I don’t know, but that being said if Shannon did have factious disorder, it would only have been a matter of time for those poor children. So indeed the Shannon killer theory is definitely plausible.
What would he have told emergency services? "hey, my wife killed the kids and i killed her?"
haven't you ever been in love?
he only cared about 1 more night in nikki's bed. not the process playing out that would stop him from getting back to that bed!
Erm your comment has totally lost me, what’s murdering your family got to do with being in love?
I’ve been in love and had children thanks, should ANYONE harm my children I’d kill for them, so you’re comment what would he tell emergency services, well it’s for a defence in court.
However I can agree with him being obsessed by the mistress and maybe his kids got in the way.
He was obsessed with her. Perhaps that's a better term than being in love the traditional way. I think what Nikki wanted for dinner Monday night was a bigger priority for him than the kids.
Yes, all marriages have problems. Every. One. But 99.9% if the time, one does not murder the other spouse and their family because the couple disagrees and has problems. It does not matter if one or both of them have mental health issues. You don't just kill your entire family over it. It's nowhere close to how a human reacts.
Absolutely no one knows except CW, I completely consider that SW could have killed the girls. I as someone who never met these people and live thousands of miles away have looked at this case without bias to the individuals involved.
This means we will never 💯 know for sure, even if he started saying she did it now, I could not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Unfortunately we live in a world where the most caring of mothers DO kill their children. The reasons for this are born out of mental health issues and are mainly altruistic or out of abandonment rage and jealousy. It can also come from a warped part of motherly instinct to protect.
I think it's a justified consideration and Tammy isn't any hotshot, even though she believes herself to be. Regarding SW and seeing through her charade acts for social media. her basic lack of self awareness and transparency that she was definitely 💯 a child abuser and a control freak puts her as a suspect and n the order of justice for those poor children, Tammy had a duty to throughly investigate SW, if not only to rule her out. Had SW not been murdered by CW and they both pointed the finger at each other, would Tammy have just taken SW side because she saw her social media and belived her to simply be a strong Italian woman, like herself?
I totally respect your right to believe he did it all, for me it's very possible either way.
What I would like to ask the OP to consider, if interested , in understanding the dynamics of the case, put aside any conclusions about if it was Chris or Shannan. Research cases of women who kill their children and look at the case evidence before the act, it is fascinating, reconsider the ddynamicsof the Watts behaviour before these acts. We can now see from the plethora of evidence regarding the state of SW mental health, her emotional state regarding her marriage, the financial stress she was dealing with but not responsible enough to stop the spending or take accountability for her treatment and the abuse she dealt her family, including her parents , brother and inlaws.
Also consider the truth around why she was living with relatives for 6 weeks, the evidence now seems to blow apart her description of why she was in S Carolina.
I am by no means saying she 100% killed them, I just wanted to offer you a thorough explanation from a person who is not 100% convinced CW killed the girls.
I never believed she killed them, but I think people are looking for a logical explanation for why Chris snapped the way he did. I think we can justify how SW pushed him over the edge, but we can’t wrap our heads around why he would not only take the babies out too, but desecrate their bodies after and throw them out like trash. Also a lot of times in this situation it’s easier to understand that maybe SW snapped first, a lot of mothers stuck at home with young kids can become overwhelmed and have poor mental health. Mothers suffering from untreated postpartum depression and psychosis and turning on their kids isn’t anything new, and a very valid explanation. The terrifying reality is that CW is a psychopath, and normal minded people will never understand his reasoning. What’s scarier is that he was masking it for so long and hiding in plain sight without any kind of warning of what he was capable of. It’s such an ugly reality many don’t want to accept because it can easily happen to any one of us as well, and there’s little we can do to stop it.
He does not fit picture of someone who’s a psychopath. Just because he killed doesn’t equal psychopath :)
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He doesn’t. He definitely had issues.
They're awful lol; that's not science. Watch them fumble other cases, like Jonbenet - it is more obvious then
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They fooled me on a casual perusal at first, too 🤗 Autopsia Channel - now *that* was science. Someone should download the videos on Meredith's channel, adulterated as they are, in case they disappear, too; the only evidence they ever existed.
I agree we will never understand him. That is really the best answer. CW should’ve just been single. Dude had kids with someone who he should have known wasn’t his vibe (call her this or that but end of the day he wasnt true to himself). Want to sleep around? Don’t get married. Want to be Childfree? Don’t have kids and don’t have sex. Cautionary tale to all those who marry someone - best to just leave if you fall out of love and don’t create lives you can’t cherish. Too many men kill their wives because they’d rather be a murderer than exposed as a cheater and divorced (I’m thinking of some pastors who did this).
this is the right answer imo. he should have have reflected more on what he wanted out of his life he wasn't true to himself. he seems very selfish. and it's crazy to think he would rather be a murderer than be divorced that's actually insane....
When I read the interview transcript where he bragged about how good of a liar he is by claiming he fooled his grade school teacher into believing he went on vacation to China, it just sickened me. Who thinks of that as a brag? He’s honestly not that uncommon of a person - get another disgusting murderer. But also very stupid.
I think both things can be true, and that's why this case is so interesting. From SW videos and words and actions, I do think she was abusive and manipulative. You can say she wasn't abusive, I do not agree. However. I also think CW was a cowardly loser who killed his kids in cold blood. I think he hated Shannan so much he killed his children. I don't know why it has to be one or the other. From everything we have to view. The videos put up by SW, she was a weird abusive person and possibly had some mental issues. But I also think Chris is a POS who killed her and his kids. It's not one or the other. Both things happened. I don't think either should be downplayed. Yes, SW was a bad mom. No, it's not just her being quirky. I don't know what you know or saw. But having your kids sleep for 15-16 hours out of the day (this is fact and from her own mouth.) Neglecting them, spending every minute of her life advertising for a shitty MLM, belittling and being flat out abusive ON CAMERA, being manipulative and admitting to as much (her own words she tortured and was awful to Chris when they got together to try and push him away, or "train him") without going into more details... Doesn't take away Chris was a coward, and cold blooded murderer. I wouldn't hurt my damn cats let alone kill my children. He is a worthless piece of scum. Both are true. That's what makes this case interesting. I absolutely don't know how anyone can dive deeply into this case, see everything that happened and have a different view point. SW was very very messed up. I think she was a shit person and a worse parent. And Chris is worse for doing what he did. He had several ways out but he was a pathetic door mat who snapped. People are so black and white. It's either A or B, but they can't ever see the truth. Maybe it's C and both people were absolutely awful. The true victims are the children and nothing will change that. It's a terrible case. But that's why it's fascinating. Because both people were so awful
this. 100%.
Don't forget Dieter -- poor thing is probably still having nightmares.
Poor Dieter. I hope he’s living a very calm, spoiled, loving life.
He's with SW's brother. :) 12 years old now!
Yes you are correct and I agree with you.
INo matter what people may think of Shannan,she and the kids did not deserve this terrible fate.I feel so very sorry for them and she absolutely did NOT kill her children. How could he say that?.He's despicable,detestable,deplorable. He claims he's found God and God will forgive him?While this is all very well,God will make sure he's kept behind bars for the rest of his miserable days. I am so sad for Shannan and her girls.I often think of them.
I don’t know why this has to keep being said but 99% of people in this sub DO NOT THINK SW DESERVED TO BE MURDERED. We may think she was a horrible person but it’s very rare to see someone say she deserved it. I think Chris killed the girls but I can respect other people’s viewpoints without insulting them and saying they “need to get their head examined”
It probably needs to keep being said because people keep acting otherwise. “I’m not defending him, but…” is 100% a victim blaming statement. “I would have snapped too” is literally saying you understand why he did it and you’re justifying it.
No it’s because if you only read what the media puts out it’s absolutely baffling. But then when you learn more about what was really going on in their lives, like here on this sub, you can at least get an idea of how or why it got to this point.
I think people are just baffled by there is analysis of the victim of a family annihilator at all. He's a piece of human garbage regardless. So why dissect her? It's weird and gives murder apologist
But two things can be true at the same time. He’s a psychopathic killer and she was a shitty human.
Baffled why the latter matters at all
It’s a part of the whole picture, part of the puzzle pieces.
also: I feel it bears mentioning that however awful some of Shannan's parenting and financial decisions may have been, it is by definition never going to be as awful as anything Chris Watts did in response. For example: Some accuse her of abuse because of some of her parenting choices (I think that's a strong term, but reasonable people can disagree about some of that)---even if it was, it pales in comparison to Chris, who coldheartedly MURDURED the two toddlers while they (if he is to be believed) lay holding each other next to their mother's corpse.
Most people don't comprehend that what Chris did outweighs anything Shanann did. It's puzzles me how they think. The reality in the end is Chris was ultimately the worst parent. And to make it worse how the girls were disposed of and how Chris ate pizza while watching videos of his girls in the interrogation room.
That was something I can't forget. Him chomping on that pizza right in front of the picture of his two daughters. Plus you got to relize it was only hours after he stuffed him down the oil tank, just hours. He never flinched. Stupid pin head
Numbnuts as SandiR still calls Chris.
> Stupid pin head lol
😂😂😂
Let's call it what it is; misogyny. I've seen people pretty much admitting they can see why Chris Watts 'snapped' as if committing murder is a normal thing to do when you've 'snapped.' I mean, he's a literal child killer and people devote hours of their time online finding reasons to hate HER. And worse, some people stoop even lower and talk shit about the actual kids. It doesn't matter how shit SHE was as a parent now because they're all dead. I think choosing to broadcast your entire life on social media is a really sad way to live and I certainly think kids should be kept well and truly away from all that but again, what's the point in dragging someone who isn't even around to defend herself?
Normally I absolutely detest all the ridiculous misogyny in the true crime community and I think NK was guilty of wishful thinking and believing a liar because she liked a man, but I think that's all NK is guilty of. But for me we want to understand this case more so we discuss all the family dynamics. I do think a lot of people like me just feel bad about certain things regarding the kids. I have rarely seen anyone say anything bad about the kids. I personally don't see how the kids were "developmently delayed," but it's extremely ableist to suggest that someone saying they were- is "saying bad things". I did see someone make a bad "edgy" sick joke about the girls once on Youtube comments.
Sadly. We'll never understand. Because we aren't killers.
I hope most of us who are intrigued by this are not blaming Shanann in any way. You can legitimately think that Shanann was maybe a bit controlling and not the best mum/wife at the same time as thinking CW is an evil b**tard who had zero right to do what he did. Not being perfect does not give anybody a reason to kill you. Who is perfect anyway? We all have faults. I am not apportioning any blame to Shanann at all, no reasonable person would. But I think many of us are honestly just trying to make some sort of sense as to how an apparently mild mannered submissive man turns family killer in such a short period of time. It absolutely baffles me.
Perfectly said 👏
Absolutely, it is baffling but the same could be said for so many murderers, whose friends/relatives/neighbours etc. are shocked to learn the truth.
People have a fetish for perfect victims. When the victim is imperfect people love to blame them.
Both SW and CW are to blame for the extreme dysfunction in that house. Calling us misogynists because we see the FEMALE children are being abused is laughable. Do your research.
Yeah I am a rational feminist meaning not a man hater. I normally get quite pissed off about the tremendous amount of misogyny in the true crime community, but a lot of people in this community are genuinely not about that. They feel horrified after seeing and hearing evidence that one of the little girls ate her own feces and either played with or drank toilet water. That preschoolers had water squirted repeatedly in the face and cream smashed in the face while crying. That a little girl who reportedly asked and begged for long hair had boy style hair cuts over and over possibly as punishments for thumb sucking although the reason for the hair cuts is not proven and can only be inferred. That requests by Bella were blatantly ignored such as requests for long hair, requests for no boy hair cuts, request for "Let it Go from Frozen," to be played by the Alexa, requests for a brand new Elsa waterbottle for Christmas, requests for a spoon when CeCe had a spoon to stir during "baking", request to watch a football game or at least a few minutes of it, request for an immediate bite of Thrive cinnamon bun bar when hungry, request not to have water squirted in face, request not to have cream smashed in face---ALL denied on camera Consent wasn't much of a thing in Bella's life. Culminating in "Daddy no," denied. 😭😭😭🤢😭😭😭
This is the saddest thing I’ve read in a long time… That poor baby. I just wanted to pick her up and take her to Cinnabon for all she could eat cinnamon rolls and frosting- not a gross thrive bar.
I just randomly found this sub. Where can I see these videos?
Search "Watts the Obsession," and "Neeks Peeks Watts" on YouTube. Also search "True Crime Loser Chris Watts," on YouTube although TCL doesn't have any videos, but his take is a good listen.
Thanks!
Actually I'm trying to look up a source where you could see the videos without all the YouTuber commentary but I have forgotten but I know I jotted down the names of those YouTube channels on my Samsung notepad so I'm trying to find them.
Here this channel might be better for unedited footage. https://youtu.be/FgU0_LU4sDo?si=DmTwd79Lf4gt6RBZ
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It's not a normal thing at all to murder someone, but you can absolutely snap and do it. When you're at the point you've snapped, rationality doesn't come into play at all. He definitely killed them and horrifically disposed of their bodies, and that should never be excused or defended. But snapping means you do things completely out of character bc you hit your breaking point.
Nah for most of us, breaking point doesn't mean murdering our kids.
Most of us haven't reached our breaking point and hopefully never will.
I would assume that, for most people, reaching their “breaking point” only means divorce
But you are also thinking clearly. I'm pretty sure the fact that he wasn't sleeping thanks to being on uppers was pretty much the difference in that. Thrive has not only regular caffeine in it (70mg) but is made with Guarana (In addition, a [2023 reviewTrusted Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9865053/) of eight placebo-controlled studies states that pure guarana can contain up to 5.3% caffeine, while espresso coffee contains about 0.21% caffeine) and Green Coffee Bean Extract. Side effects include: * Anxiety or jitteriness. * Dehydration. * Frequent urination. * Headaches. * Increased heart rate. * Trouble sleeping. * Upset stomach. So even though it has a low level of actual "caffeine" listed it's really way higher (deceptive advertising). He was also double patching and he was drinking it in his sports bottle all day long.
I agree. A lot of people also kept saying that baby Nico was not the monster’s. I believe if I remember correctly that the rumor was started by the monster’s mother and backed by the monster’s crack smoking father. DNA doesn’t lie. Nico was Chris’s.
exactly
What the fuck? Missed that part entirely
‘Some accuse her on her parenting choices’ and ‘reasonable people can disagree on that’ You have not watched any of her footage, you have based your opinion on reading a few articles. Most people in this sub, have opinions that are based on watching HER and her interactions with her children, CW..unaltered, as she truly was, living her life..endless hours of LIVE footage..that she willingly and purposefully presented to the world. I have yet to find anyone that actually agrees with any of her behavior, how she interacted and treated her kids and husband. Most people are privy enough to see that it is completely inappropriate, abusive and scary..to ignore she was capable of killing her kids, is just ridiculous. Her own friends and family knew this, they knew to check on her, the whole ‘check the knives’ I mean…would you say that after your friend of sound mind and incapable of hurting herself or others is missing for a mere few hours? Nope.. Supporting her parenting choices, not a hill I would ever want to die on.
I am not dying on a hill or "supporting her parenting choices". However, calling it abuse seems incorrect. My point is mostly that in cases pf true abuse, we advocate removing kids from the home and having them live in foster care. We all know foster care isn't usually great for kids. So, before I would say someone else is abusive, I would ask myself, "is this worse for the kids than going to foster care?" if not, I don't consider it abuse, just crappy parenting. I have watched a lot of the videos and I think she appears inattentive and at times, makes "jokes" at her kids expense that are in poor taste. Also, filming little kids constantly is poor parenting (see: family influencer channels). But abuse? I think that delegitimizes what a lot of kids who are actually abused face. I also think individual parenting moments could be considered abusive for most parents. like, if someone loses their cool and completely yells at their kid in a cruel manner or calls them a name or something. However, if it's a single-time or very rare occurence in an overall pattern that meets *at least* the bare minimum parenting standards, saying the parent is abusive is incorrect. Unfortunately, many people are crappy parents, but it isn't necessarily malicious.
“If it’s worse than foster care” is like saying oh he’s a good man because he neglects me but doesn’t beat me senseless. Foster care is terrible and the lowest bar you could set
Yes, foster care is horrible! That’s why I’m not sure what people would have wanted for the girls. Was having a chronically online MLM mom who apparently lacked empathy for them worse than getting removed from their home and sent to foster care? I don’t think it was.
Honestly she sounds terrible. So many kids are just born into a lose lose situation. It’s so shitty
Both are awful options.
No there are so many different types of abuse. To say one is "true abuse" and the other isnt is mad.
"True abuse", in this context, is whether CPS would have the legal authority to intervene.
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my opinion is that while anyone thinks her treatment elevated to the level of “true abuse” or whatever the fuck they want to split hairs over, it was very clearly malicious the way she treated Bella.
Sorry I am new, why was she like this to Bella?
I do think the Babywise "Cry it out" method is abusive, and I do think cutting Bella's hair all the time when she wants long hair is abusive, and ear surgery for both kids on the same day when they're not even twins is weird as fuck, and smashing cream in the face of a kid that's not into this "game," and cries is kinda abusive. But police are not arresting for any of that. And CPS are scanning your report to them and filing it in the circular file.
She regularly belittled her family to feel superior. She came first period. Those little girls didn’t give a crap about matching shirt pics. And 100’s of them to boot! How tacky already. Cutting Bella’s hair? Thats sick shit. Cece drinking toilet water. Disgusting. If she was living in a ghetto apt those kids probably would’ve been on the radar. She had a cps case from Bella at 10 months old. Wtf?
she has a CPD case for bella?
It’s in the discovery somewhere. Bella was 10 months old. BUT Chris only got a letter in JAIL dating case closed bc child deceased. Absolutely insane. There r tons of skeletons still her family tried to squash
I also read this recently
Form letter I guess.
Right. It was a form letter. But still, all this squashing of shit SHE did is wrong. Nobody says she deserves to be murdered. But what happens in the dark comes to light! Every single time! Death does not exempt!
Where's the proof of anything at 10 months old? Link please?
In the discovery for the case. I think Zav girl’s channel might have the whole thing.
Oh yeah she is amazing apart from waffling sometimes. If she cut the waffle I'd listen to her a lot more.
That cps thing was never proved as fast was it?
As fact? I think they avoided it at all costs. There was no point to bring it in after Chris confessed so fast. But in the discovery that letter to him is there so it was a thing. Prob we will never know
Hiya, I wondered why her hair was short, what was the reason? X
Punishment for thumb sucking not wetting the bed.
Thumb sucking not bed wetting.
I believe she’d cut it as punishment for wetting the bed.
Thumb sucking
Which she encouraged first of all bc pacifiers are bad according to Baby Wise!
Yes. She encouraged. She ‘trained’ her to self soothe. Then we Bella got older, Shanny didn’t like it so she punished her for it
I heard thumb sucking not wetting the bed.
That is prob right ! I just remembered it was something kids do .
Sucking her thumb because she was self soothing from Babywise.
All of that is abusive, full stop
She treated her children and husband like this on LIVE FB. Imagine what she did when they weren't live?
Well I’m just really glad your not a mandated reporter, not working in any type of social work or working with children in any capacity since you seem very confused about what abuse is, and therefor incapable to advocate for actual victims of abuse..
Have you researched BabyWise? That alone is abuse.
Finally! The most level headed thing I've read on this sub. The way some of the others just lay in to Shanann as if she deserved to be murdered is really quite disturbing. I stumbled across this sub because this case had me in a choke hold. I'm grateful to the contributors here who have shed light on CW and SW relationship together, but the name calling and the slagging off of SW and her friends is strange to me.
i completely agree with you. i don’t agree with *many* of Shannan’s parenting choices at all, the Babywise nonsense was insane IMO. but there are people here who will fight tooth & nail to defend Chris saying it’s HER fault he snapped? it’s ridiculous. nobody ever deserves to be murdered in cold blood like that. he should’ve just left her. it reminds me of the way some people vehemently defend Bryan Kohberger in the Idaho 4 case & swear he’s innocent, while blaming the victims saying they were involved in “shady shit”. the internet has made me realize a lot of people don’t see these as real life, legitimate cases. they see these as a TV show with characters to make conspiracy theories about. i’m all for listening to new information & hearing different perspectives but id be lying if i said i wasn’t concerned about some things i’ve read lol.
I think it’s a way people protect themselves from the harsh realities of life. If they can break things down in a way they can distance themselves from being a victim- then it can’t happen to them. Unfortunately, in order to do so, one must victim blame. It’s easier for some people’s brains to digest, than accepting than men like Chris exist. “ I would never be like SW ,therefore I cannot be harmed by a CW “, is protective thinking that ignores uglier truths and horrors. CW wasn’t pushed to snap. His easy going , passive demeanor was an act and a mask. It’s how he got what he wanted in life. Same with- I can’t be murdered by a BK, the roommates must have been in in it or I would never be so traumatized like the roommates were. In cases of DV or SA we see similar narratives. That would never happen to me because I’m this way or that happened to them because they are _______. It’s easier for some people to wrap their heads around. It’s about creating personal distance from being a victim.
Me and you both. We are living in new times being bombarded by lies from many fronts trying to bury what the truth is or trying to give justification for the lies especially by a certain group. I always search for the truth; you must or we will all be lost.
i think it’s pretty obvious that being a bitch all the time isn’t as bad as murder lol. nobody on here has said otherwise.
Everything you said made sense until the last part. I don’t think she did it but someone can def had a psychotic break even in that scenario..
I don't think she killed the girls BUT had Chris gone down the legal route of separation and divorce I would not have put it past her to do anything. She had to have a perfect life. Being divorced isn't perfect. She treated Chris like shit. I could see that in 1 video where she commanded him like a dog. People may have opened their eyes if she was being divorced.
I genuinely don't understand how you can be obsessed with this case, but then want to shut down when someone brings up the fact that SW may have killed her kids. There is no evidence of the kids getting into Chris's truck that morning. No one will ever know the truth with how much he has lied at this point. She gave them meds to put them to sleep every night and made them take long naps during the day. Then people want to defend her by saying she needed her "me time". She had plenty of time away from them. They went to daycare!! And she woke up super early while they were still sleeping! She clearly only needed them for views. She may have had an amazing time on her trip away from her kids and then snapped if they had woken up when she got home from being exhausted from her trip and being pregnant. Know one will ever know the truth.
We landed on the moon, just in case you were in denial about that too.
People's reactions to this case genuinely piss me off sometimes. In my opinion, Shannan did seem somewhat emotionally abusive towards Chris. That will NEVER justify MURDERING her and THEIR TWO DAUGHTERS?? Hearing people say like. "Oh yeah she deserved it she was a bitch" HUH??? A HARD CONVERSATION, MAYBE. A DIVORCE, DEFINITELY. BUT MURDER ??? And then being accused of killing her daughters?? Bffr😭
Exactly. It’s kind of scary knowing how many random people just vehemently hate a murdered woman (and her children) who they’ve never even met and would ever have heard of had she not been a victim of an awful tragedy
EXACTLYYY VICTIM BLAMING IS INSANE The ONLY time it's at all justified is if it's in genuine self defense
Shannann was severely mentally ill and an abusive mother. She left ridiculous amounts of video and digital evidence documenting this on the internet. This doesn't mean she deserved to be murdered but it is not fair to declare everyone who has taken the time to examine her activity online as needing their head examined. Maybe you think the people who are making conclusions are crazy when really they are just pointing out the truth of the situation. I implore you to break out of your black and white thinking. Black and white thinking in this case is what keeps us all in an infinite loop where this case doesn't make sense. Of course any parent murdering their own child NEVER makes sense... but that is not why we are all so obsessed with this case. It is because the official narrative doesn't make sense. There is more to it and we can all sense it. Something is hidden. Chris was bad, Nichol was bad, and Shannann was also bad. The only people who do not deserve scrutiny are the innocent children who died.
There's just no evidence that she did that though. The detectives would have discovered that if it was at all true, because of this schmuck and his side pieces horrific and not very smart plan, were not good at covering their tracks. It's nonsense.
The only way there would have been physical evidence is if Chris didn't kill Shannann or hide the bodies. He hid the bodies because he didn't want to get prosecuted for killing Shannann which we know 100% without one doubt that he did. The girls bodies were in tanks so there is no physical evidence of who actually killed the girls, besides the fact that Chris dumped their bodies. That is evidence in itself and all that exists, so in a court of law he is toast. There is a motive and evidence he is responsible for their death even though there is no documentation or fingerprints on their bodies of him actually doing the act. They didn't die from being drowned in oil. The autopsy showed they were smothered. We have lots of video evidence that Shannann was capable of harming the girls in quite a sadistic manner. She documented it and posted her abusive behavior online. THAT is why this theory won't go away. There is no video evidence of Chris being mean to the girls or anyone else. Also he is a chronic liar so nobody trusts him farther than they can throw him, so that also adds to the WTF factor. He has lied so much nobody believes anything he says.
There isn't any video that provides evidence that Shanann was capable of killing the kids. Being a lousy parent isn't evidence thst you are capable of murder.
What evidence is there to say Chris did it? Not saying he did or didn’t. Let’s say his story is true and he called the cops with Shanann being alive. What are the odds he doesn’t get convicted in this and that societal structure?
He was the only one in the house who survived. He was the last one seen leaving the house. The bodies were buried at his work place, the same place he went the day they went missing. His story isn't true. Shanann wasn't alive.
What about his confessions and detailed description of how it all went down for that lady's book?
Well the fact that these 2 "tales" of what happened are different, plus him now saying he doesn't remember what happened, should tell you something.
When did Chris learn of their mortgage and HOA situation? Before or after?
My theory is Nicole was over the house Saturday or Sunday, and they went in the office and Nicole saw the extent of the financial problems, and explained to CW like he was a 5 year old how bad it was…because we know he was completely ignorant to anything going on prior to that. Didn’t even have access to his own bank account online..had to call the actual bank. Which he only did if Shannan told him to..
I guess what I’m asking is, where did this info come from about him not being allowed to access the account, being in so much debt, and how/when did he find out?
It came from Chris mouth at the welfare check when LE ask him to check for any bank activity when Shanann and the girls were regarded as missing.
Well he made the money, it went to their account and he never seen it. He had no access to it, and had to call. There was her texting him to call the bank about an Uber charge or airport parking. Listen to his interview, still thought she made an income, when she made no money, and just spent all his. They had a bankruptcy before, so I mean he knew she was a moron with money, but she controlled everything, and he literally was just a door mat and did what ever she said. Clearly he was dumb enough to believe what ever she said, and she was dragging to bankruptcy #2, and it was all coming to a head that week. Looking at her videos and seeing how SHE had everything to lose, not him..it’s clear as day who had the motive..her. How she could have done it, I have no idea. Only thing I can think of is she came home, and went in the room with the girls, strangled them..took something…something with fetanyl perhaps? ( I do think she was abusing pain meds) Or to much of her pain meds, and told Chris, I know your cheating, the kids are dead, I just took enough to OD, and guess what, your the husband with a mistress…your going to jail for this lol Chris is so dumb he likely believed he was screwed…knew was going to be the suspect no matter if he called the police or if he dumped them…all the lying though idk, makes no sense.
This is a very good theory. She definitely said something to Chris that till this day he won't say what it was. Everything was about to blow up and I think she didn't know where to turn, so she walked in the house that night and picked a fight with CW and the rest who knows....
He learned about the HOA situation when she was in NC and he was served with the notice to appear from the courts. He asked her about it and she said she had been sending the payments to the wrong address, for over a year. I'm pretty sure notices had been sent to them by mail for non payment before the filing in the court.
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Yeah it is my opinion that Shanann was severely mentally ill. It's YOUR opinion that it's not the "truth." The evidence that she was severely mentally ill is in her videos and social media posts. Obviously, CW was also mentally ill. Do you have a psychological evaluation in hand that declares she was cleared of all diagnosis of personality disorders and mental illness? I'm not trying to accomplish anything but learn about this case, and understand how something like this tragedy could have happened. SW's mental illness was a contributor to how it ended up happening. However, we are never going to find out the truth because CW hid the bodies and keeps changing his story.
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I don't know what happened to my comment. I didn't delete it. I hope you leave because you are not contributing anything meaningful to the discussion here and you don't seem to be willing to have an open mind and actually read this subreddit in any kind of depth. Sounds to me like you like to come here to feed your sense of moral superiority. You picked the wrong person to attack, because I really don't care about what you think of my opinions, and I am certainly not feeling ashamed... so you wasted your time.
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Do not call people names or belittle them for their opinions. Breaking Rule #4.
If you don’t like someone’s opinion, you can go to other subs. We do not walk on eggshells here. We discuss the victimology side of this case. If that is not to your liking, this may not be the sub for you.
No personal remarks to or about other members. This is not a memorial sub. This sub discusses true crime.
The "official" narrative does make sense.
Then... What are you doing here? You know what the sub is about. You wrote that there is nothing anyone can say to change your opinion, so it's not like you're interested in knowing what everyone else thinks. If you are convinced that the case is resolved you can continue with your day.
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If you don’t agree with a comment, either reply respectfully or scroll on by. Do not use “language”
yeah. you're right. You should not justify yourself to anyone, just as no one should justify themselves to you. and if everyone is jumping to justify themselves it's because of the "examined head" part which is lol, whatever and I don't know what's funnier that everyone jumps at that little provocation (which doesn't even count as such) or your post. but hey! activity in the sub is activity at the end of the day. so whatever
Wait people actually think Shannan killed the kids? Chris admitted to killing them… more than once… why would anyone ever admit that? Especially Chris who was obsessed with coming off as the “nice guy.”
>Chris was prompted by the agents to say Shannan did it as part of the Reid interrogation method. (You get them to admit to a (fake) lesser offense first, in order to poke holes in their story or open the door for the admission of what actually occurred) It's not the Reid interrogation method! That officer/agent/interrogator could've easily helped Chris with a great defense in court *An alternative question must be based on the assumption that the suspect actually committed the crime under investigation. In other words, if the suspect accepts the alternative question, it must represent an admission of guilt. It would, therefore, be improper to ask a suspect who was being interrogated concerning involvement in a drive-by shooting, "Did you fire that gun or do you just know who did?" Given this choice, the suspect guilty of firing the gun will certainly accept the latter choice because it allows him to escape consequences of his crime. Under this circumstance, the investigator has spent considerable time during the interrogation eliciting a non-incriminating statement from the suspect. If the investigator now re-confronts the suspect concerning principal involvement in the offense, the interrogation may last several more hours, which could result in the suppression of any subsequent incriminating statements under the grounds of duress. To reiterate, both sides of the alternative question must represent a choice that would result in an admission of involvement in the offense if the suspect accepts either one e.g., "Were you carefully aiming at that little boy, or was this just a wild shot from your gun?"* Criminal Interrogation and Confessions (Chapter 13 The Reid Nine Steps of Interrogation, page 296) https://www.google.se/books/edition/Criminal_Interrogation_and_Confessions/wTzjCJj4OSEC?hl=sv
If Chris didn't murder his two girls and just killed Shannan, do you think he would have not been sentenced to life. Especially if he had people testifying in his defense how she treated him and the spending, and everything she did to her family?
Her family told them to give him life.
She did not, I totally agree. CW did it all, on his own, with no help from NK.
this. everyone wants to jump to NK being an accomplice when the evidence is just not there. a deep analysis of her interviews after the murder makes it obvious but people latch onto the idea just because she searched her boyfriend’s wife’s name on google.
I am not saying NK was, or was not, involved, but one argument I read that I believe is incredibly valid is that there is no evidence to support that NK was involved… just as there is no evidence to support that NK wasn’t involved. It is indeed factual that she lied to law enforcement (via her interviews), and it is indeed factual that she was never investigated. Before it is claimed that law enforcement had no reason to investigate her…. lying to law enforcement is absolutely a reason to investigate, and that goes for anyone. That is why people continue to speculate.
As you would to be honest. I imagine it is just how people's minds work when they start an affair. You would check the competition. I am not saying she is a nice person, I don't know her, she might be a b**ch, she might be lovely....but whatever, the hate and baseless accusations she gets are disgusting.
exactly. you’re going to search her online and see what the full situation is. chris was telling NK that him and shannan were divorcing but NK didn’t fully believe him so i’m sure the natural reaction would be to look up shannan and see what she’s saying online to try and get the full story. shannan posted her entire life on social media, googling her name was bound to reveal info. I see people viciously insulting NK. calling her an evil homewrecker, accomplice, etc. there’s just no evidence to back any of that up. the only evidence is that chris lied to her by saying he was getting a divorce which made her feel like it was okay to keep seeing chris. people even say how ugly she is and how much better shannan was than her but if i’m being honest as a guy, NK is/was a smoke show lol
But if she googled Shannan’s name because she didn’t believe him about the divorce, chances are she’d see her social media detailing her wonderful perfect life with her wonderful perfect husband so she must have known she was getting involved with a guy who was very much still married and very much not getting a divorce.
that’s where an arguement on this topic usually happens. facebook doesnt let you see someone’s full post history unless you’re their friend, been that way for a while. if she did happen to stumble upon one of the thrive influenced family videos, im sure chris would downplay it as “she has to make those videos for work, its not real”
Only if the person has their privacy settings set that way. Before stuff was cleaned up and removed by her family, looky loos were able to go take a million screenshots of her profile. Besides if it was recent posts she was bound to see enough to realize that Shannan had no idea they were getting divorced.
THANK YOU. I’ve been big into this case since it happened, and i’m glad we have this subreddit to discuss the case, but i’m so tired of seeing people saying that Shanann killed the kids. As awful as Shanann was, she did NOT kill them. Chris admitted it and all the evidence shows HE did it. Case closed. I don’t know why some people just can’t accept that.
I think chris killed them all but it would not surprise me if shanann killed the girls. Imo both parents were awful. I think cw was a bad parent even before he killed everyone. Sw was beyond selfish and lacked empathy for her own children
Unless you know someone who has a similar personality as Chris Watts you truly cannot comprehend how he could have done this because he “appears“ normal. The key word with him is that he appeared normal, but take my word for it he never was and never will be. People like him are great imitators of a normal human, but in reality they are as cold as a robot. He is a true definition of a psychopath, the scary thing is there are no visible signs to identify such a person until they do something heinous. I would highly recommend a book by Robert D. Hare, PhD, titled: Without Conscience, if you want to learn more about these types.
Ofc she didn’t kill them!! wtf ?!! She loved those kids !!
I never thought she killed them. However I do think she had a lot of mental issues that she put on the kids and her husband. In many ways she reminds me of my female family members (one of whom was just diagnosed at 65 as bipolar). The narcissism, the need to make her kids "perform" for strangers, the health issue obsessions. I really think Chris was just at his limit- she had him doing all the work, at home, at actual work, with the girls, he wasn't sleeping because he was on thrive (basically uppers which might as well have been amphetamines.) I think he just snapped.
I do not believe this theory can be discounted so readily and I totally understand the emotions behind the reasons to completely discount the victim SW as not the one that killed those girls. CW has said he did it apparently, because they manipulated him into saying he did with the Reid technique. That the hamburglar was soo incredibly fantastic at her job that he crumpled up and took the bait. could this be true? Absolutely it can and could be the case. However they did a poor job at impartial investigation into this murder, especially into the girls murder. There is no concrete evidence that CW killed the girls, it's concrete to me that he killed SW and for that he is where he is, no one has any right to kill anybody. If CW had plead not guilty the state would have not had enough evidence imo to convict CW. During the interview, which is hours long he didn't admit to killing them at all, he said he saw SW strangle the girls so he did the same to her. The girls were smothered not strangled. A huge difference. In a trial with a shit hot attorney armed with the background to Sw parenting, alongside the plethora of inappropriate pictures SW posted of medical abuse of every kind, the state of mind written in her own words to friends, the financial situation, the abandonment of her husband for another woman while she is pregnant, this would definitely be a reasonable doubt that she could have motive and 'could' have been driven to kill the girls. That he then retaliated out of rage and grief and strangled her. Therefore, giving a motive and reason to raise a conviction of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But as they tied compliant people pleaser CW up in a nice neat bow he signed his rights away. There was no trial and the burden of proof never met. No-one knows beyond a reasonable doubt which one of the Watts parents killed the girls, there is a reason we are still discussing this murder and its because many do not believe that a man even as despicable as CW, who definitely disposed of his family in a heinous manner and definitely strangled the life out of his wife is not entitled to defend himself, he showed how little he defended himself and expressed his feelings to his wife, let alone a massuse named Tammy, who was aalso a police officer. If a man was massaging a female prisoner during a legal interview, would he not be accused of SA???.... CW was clearly manipulated by Tammy to get a confession by the wrong means, abusing her position, by not following facts or the law, the Reid technique is highly flawed, especially with weak people. I have high suspicion that SW did kill the girls out of despair and altruistic reasons. She was at the end of her tether and was an angry, jealous woman. she had run out of money, didn't want her baby, no job, no home, no husband and nowhere left to go. Had SW lived she would have lost the big trophy house, Chris paychecks, Thrive fake wealth look at me in my big house, lexus gone. No daycare at 25k a year. Life, had she not been killed looked bleak for her. Her parents house beneath her and told she needed to qualify for the next too big house in NC. She had run out of chances and grifting opportunity. I understand by posting this I am exactly the type of person who is classed as wrong for even considering the fact that SW is a child murderer, and if folk don't want to listen to my theory, that's fine. I don't need my head examined at all, there is no reason for a person who thinks critically and supports a fair and transparent judicial system is not thinking quite rationally imo. My reasons do not come from a place of hate for SW, I dislike her for her treatment of the girls and I am not keen on people who show off on social media instead of just getting on with being a mother. I have researched women who kill their children and why they do it. Many do so for revenge against being left for another woman, some do so as they don't want to live anymore and to protect their children from them being gone, they take them with them, some because they have post partum depression. There are many more reasons and SW is a candidate for investigation. I would like to invite those who find it impossible to believe she had markers to look into other cases and compare the pictures of those women and the background to the child murders and still not have a tiny amount of reasonable doubt that the first confession of CW was the true one.
Abortion was an option if she didn’t want the baby
looks like she considered that too.
Redditors are nothing if not contrarians.
I’ll get my head examined then I reckon because it’s quite possible that she did 😬
It's not quite possible.
We all have opinions and the truth is NONE of us will really know. Now if you claim to have a crystal ball of sorts then if I were you I’d be somewhere betting on the lotto or some horses and not in this sub
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean it's a valid opinion. Some people have the opinion that the world is flat.
Good thing I’m not in the business of thinking about if my thoughts on this case are “valid” to someone. SW was abusive af to the children. She also told friends over txt she didn’t want the baby etc etc. In my OPINION it’s possible that she harmed the children based on her previous behavior. That will not change because someone else can’t possibly accept that
Sw - "would you still love me if we didn't have kids?" Cw - "I don't want to lose the girls." Hmmm.....
Bingo. Folks try and say that was her way of asking if he was only staying married for the kids. However in the context of the entire convo it reads differently to me. She didn’t even want the last baby and said so in txts
Yep, after just 3 days of cw being distant she was discussing abortion.
Do you believe it's still possible even with CW's detailed confession about the girls' last moments?
If you are referring to tge Wisconsin interview that was a coerced interview. His account of the actions that night/morning in that interview is almost verbatim of a letter he received 2 weeks prior from a woman who detailed a dream she had about the case. Think about it, he pled guilty, was sentenced to 5 LWP sentences but yet 3 months later LE interviews him again?
Yes.
Are you willfully ignoring all of Shannon’s traits of several severe and dangerous personality disorders and all of her abuse just because she was the mother? How can you ignore all of the terrible things she did and said to her husband and children? If she were a man, the father, and displayed the abuse like she did, you would not have any problem naming Shannon as the child killer.
Exactly. If Chris had posted that sw rejected him so he kicked her sorry ass put of bed people would have considered her an abused wife.
You really should have started your post with "in my opinion" because let's face it, none of us were there. In my opinion, sw was the one who hurt the girls.
MLM hun? Lol. Maybe research them. Plus her entire fake world was about to be exposed if Chris left. Idk if she killed her kids or not. But I can’t say absolutely she didn’t. She was a rager when she didn’t get her way. It’s all tragic.
You can't say "absolutely" who committed a murder in most cases. That's an unrealistic standard.
That’s why I said I CANT absolutely say either way. Wish we knew tho
My question always is: why was there no sign shanann fought back?????
Is this Shannan’s mom?
Thank you for your opinion. but I know in some of the most sensational media driven stories the mother is often the killer (Andrea Yates, etc) I also know Shannan posted a photo of a doll on social media wrapped in a sheet, implying a dead body. She may have been a hun, but she was completely unstable and about to lose her entire fake life. She would no longer be the rich mom in a big house. She would no longer be the successful businesswoman in a rented Lexus. So would no longer be able to FOOL anyone. Chris was only worried about his little buff mountain climber "dude" in a woman's body and her whiny 111 minute rant. "Go watch the FBI interrogation footage" I have. 1000 times. oh and they hit a wall, he failed the poly and kept lying. So they applied pressure to a loved one - Nikki. "I can't leave here and think SHE had something to do with this". He was free to say "go ask her" or "get her down here". The Reid Technique per Wiki "The technique is known for creating a high pressure environment for the interviewee, followed by sympathy and offers of understanding and help, but only if a confession is forthcoming." He didn't have to confess to committing to a lesser crime - he could have just lawyered up. Without concern for Nikki's privacy or comfort he would have never confessed to anything because that day, that's all he cared about. Graham was obviously sharp enough to use his training in that situation.
According to the information I found, fathers are more likely to kill their kids. This article states that 57% of children were killed by fathers, and around 40% were killed by mothers. https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/07/health/filicide-parents-killing-kids-stats-trnd/index.html
Odd that this even needs to be said or declared as a normal human of above average intelligence would have already come to this conclusion years ago. That said, knowing how stupid the average human being is, it's hardly shocking that people don't believe we landed on the moon, people believe in fairy tales called "religion", flat earth and of course, that do believe that Shannan killed her kids while Hero Watts stormed in to deliver justice and is now wrongly incarcerated lol One thing you learn about human beings spending a lot of time manipulating them, is that most of them are idiots.
I agree. She had a lot of faults but she wasn't a murderer. He admitted it. He did it, period. Nk possibly involved, who knows.
The Roos have said NK isn't involved and that they know everything....sooooo🤷🏼
Yep, frank Sr knows the truth and will take it to the grave.
So true. I always thought the worst part of getting murdered would be the getting murdered part, but it’s actually the amount of time and energy complete strangers will spend combing through your real or imagined flaws to justify your murderer’s actions.
Most victims don’t have hours upon hours of video posted publicly, available for scrutiny—to be fair.
At the end of the day there is absolutely no proof as to who killed those girls. It was basically case closed once that weird "confession" came out. Only 2 people know the truth. One is dead and the other is a lifer. I'm on the fence as to who did what but she had far more to lose than he did imo. Her carefully crafted fake house of cards would have come crashing down had their marital issues come to light.
This! When people say she did and why else would Chris say that, it infuriates me. If they watch the interview at all the interviewer prompts him to say that, to which he immediately confesses with that exact scenario that she just laid out.
Ok let’s say we’ve not seen the footage of Chris’s interrogations. 1) Shannon never had the phone out of her hand constantly on social media with that scratchy victim/strong woman voice. 2) If she did indeed kill the children then why would he cover that up and take the steps he did? Is the theory Shannon killed the children dumped the body’s where Chris was working, she took very little interest in him as it was unless she was telling the world he farted and thrived. A plausible defence would be she killed my children so I killed her, but no he admitted to suffocating his little girls in the car. The “Are you going to do the same to me Daddy?” Then stuff them like trash. Then call the estate agents after just hiding 3.5 body’s from the site! I truly believe that he killed them all and he had one day snapped and then living with her speaking with her for the years his feeling went to hatred, so he planned it all. If she killed the children where is the phone call to emergency services?
This isn't a defense of the SW as the kids killer theory, but I think the logic behind why if that had happened, Chris wouldn't call emergency service is that: Shannan and Chris ague and se is upset about cheating or separating, etc. The fight subsides and she, instead of going to sleep, gives something to the girls that kills them or smothers them or something - like in a Greek tragedy. Chris discovers this and in a rage over discovering Shannan killed the girls, Chris murders Shannan and the unborn child. Once its done, Chris won't call emergency service because he's also responsible for murder and it would be assumed he killed all of them; also, there may be a part of him that feels guilty about his actions leading to this terrible end. He haphazardly moves the bodies, buries them, etc, thinking maybe he can make it seem like Shannan ran off with the girls somewhere. Maybe he planed to get rid of her truck later that day, but Shannan's friend foiled it by calling the cops. In any event, thats why there was no call to emergency services. Like i said, this isn't a defense of the SW killing the kids theory, but its the obvious reason why there wasn't an emergency call like posed in your comment.
The only thing that leads me to him being the killer is, a few comments that were made apparently by him, in the interview police lead him to that explanation in order to obtain a confession and the location of the bodies, he took it and ran with it. Also somewhere although I read this he’s since stated he did it with their blankets in the car, then he killed them before killing her in the perfect husband book, he apparently stated NK manipulated him into doing so. His account simply wouldn’t change also followed up with Shannon used his kids against him saying he wouldn’t see them again and he was being emasculated by the children how much of this is actual truth I don’t know, but that being said if Shannon did have factious disorder, it would only have been a matter of time for those poor children. So indeed the Shannon killer theory is definitely plausible.
What would he have told emergency services? "hey, my wife killed the kids and i killed her?" haven't you ever been in love? he only cared about 1 more night in nikki's bed. not the process playing out that would stop him from getting back to that bed!
Erm your comment has totally lost me, what’s murdering your family got to do with being in love? I’ve been in love and had children thanks, should ANYONE harm my children I’d kill for them, so you’re comment what would he tell emergency services, well it’s for a defence in court. However I can agree with him being obsessed by the mistress and maybe his kids got in the way.
He was obsessed with her. Perhaps that's a better term than being in love the traditional way. I think what Nikki wanted for dinner Monday night was a bigger priority for him than the kids.
Yes, all marriages have problems. Every. One. But 99.9% if the time, one does not murder the other spouse and their family because the couple disagrees and has problems. It does not matter if one or both of them have mental health issues. You don't just kill your entire family over it. It's nowhere close to how a human reacts.
Absolutely no one knows except CW, I completely consider that SW could have killed the girls. I as someone who never met these people and live thousands of miles away have looked at this case without bias to the individuals involved. This means we will never 💯 know for sure, even if he started saying she did it now, I could not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Unfortunately we live in a world where the most caring of mothers DO kill their children. The reasons for this are born out of mental health issues and are mainly altruistic or out of abandonment rage and jealousy. It can also come from a warped part of motherly instinct to protect. I think it's a justified consideration and Tammy isn't any hotshot, even though she believes herself to be. Regarding SW and seeing through her charade acts for social media. her basic lack of self awareness and transparency that she was definitely 💯 a child abuser and a control freak puts her as a suspect and n the order of justice for those poor children, Tammy had a duty to throughly investigate SW, if not only to rule her out. Had SW not been murdered by CW and they both pointed the finger at each other, would Tammy have just taken SW side because she saw her social media and belived her to simply be a strong Italian woman, like herself? I totally respect your right to believe he did it all, for me it's very possible either way. What I would like to ask the OP to consider, if interested , in understanding the dynamics of the case, put aside any conclusions about if it was Chris or Shannan. Research cases of women who kill their children and look at the case evidence before the act, it is fascinating, reconsider the ddynamicsof the Watts behaviour before these acts. We can now see from the plethora of evidence regarding the state of SW mental health, her emotional state regarding her marriage, the financial stress she was dealing with but not responsible enough to stop the spending or take accountability for her treatment and the abuse she dealt her family, including her parents , brother and inlaws. Also consider the truth around why she was living with relatives for 6 weeks, the evidence now seems to blow apart her description of why she was in S Carolina. I am by no means saying she 100% killed them, I just wanted to offer you a thorough explanation from a person who is not 100% convinced CW killed the girls.