My dad was 99% incapacitated for years before his (young) death, and Christians kept telling me "This is a lesson from God. Your family will grow from this." And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. Be whatever religion you want, but if you would spin severe, _severe_ disablement, suffering, and death into a positive, you're brainwashed.
I always said something similar about little kids stricken with cancer. What kind of God puts an innocent child and their family through something so horrendous? And for what? Make them and their families suffer immeasurably because of some “plan”? I’ll never understand it. It’s a question that can’t be unasked for me.
My grandpa said losing a child was by far the worst thing to ever happen to him, and he saw some stuff in his life. I assume that broke his faith, but his son would say "God was just testing our faith," and now I can't help but think "What do you think you're arguing? That god kills kids to increase the odds their parents go to hell?" It's just wild.
According to the Bible, God ordered Abraham to bring his son to the top of a hill and kill him just to prove his loyalty, and when he was about to kill him an Angel showed up and was like, “Nah, just fucking with you to see if you would do it!”
It makes no sense to me anymore. I was in Catholic high school when 9/11 happened and I remember asking one of the priests why God would let that happen and got the, “It’s His plan and we are not meant to understand it.” explanation. How does that make any sense?
Well, father, when I kicked you squarely in the nuts, then pissed on your doubled-over body, I will stand back in awe as I see God’s plan go into effect.
I mean, they're literally saying that it won't make sense to us because we can't see God's plan. It is possible that there's some greater plan and that all the suffering is towards some greater good that wouldn't happen if the suffering didn't.
I don't believe that myself, but I can see that it's not impossible.
And even that doesn’t make sense because everything is God’s creation, so the suffering being necessary for some greater good is by design. God made the suffering necessary. It can’t be Satan, because God allows Satan to exist because God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Religions aren’t supposed to make sense, so these are the types of questions that help get people out of the cults.
That’s the issue with all arguments that involve a variation of “God needs to do this”. God is omnipotent, he doesn’t NEED to do anything. If he needs to do something it’s because he set it up that way.
If God truly created EVERYTHING then he created stuff like logic, causation and necessity unless you believe such concepts are above God and he is bound by them. If that isn’t the case then every tragedy in history or that is yet to come is all part of his plan from the beginning.
What BLOWS MY FREAKING MIND? There are people of color that go to church hahahaha! Like WTF bro. They literally beat god into your ancestors and you teach that crap to your children to this day? Wooooooooooooow just can't take religious people seriously when they ignore human history.
Sure, and maybe we’re not meant to know or understand what that plan is until after we die or something? I just can’t imagine why an all-powerful God would want to curse someone with a lifelong malady or haunt them with the loss of a child, who might have suffered immeasurably, in the furtherance of some unknown plan. I guess I’ve just become disillusioned from the Catholicism I grew up with.
As have I.
In the end, it comes down to faith. The Jesuits I talked to growing up even made that explicit; God would not, should not provide proof of His existence, because the test for true Christians was whether or not they had faith and believed in the absence of proof. For me, the answer ended up being that no, I did not believe.
Just gonna drop this bit of wisdom from Douglas Adams here.
"I refuse to prove that I exist", says God, "**for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing**." "But", says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist, and so therefore you don't. QED." "Oh dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
So, as a part-time believer of a Christian-ish persuasion, I tell people that I have Schrodinger's cat relationship with God. God can either exist or not exist, and it doesn't really matter. I believe in something bigger than myself that is a common spark throughout humanity and connects me to others. I don't believe this because of the promise of some kind of afterlife reward, or to avoid some eternal punishment. I choose this path because trying to love others makes my life better. I'm not always good at it, and I'm willing to keep trying. I don't think that god is person-like, and I have a rather abstract concept of god as an entity at all. I don't believe in salvation, I don't believe in original sin or the Bible as the word of god, and I've been leading a Sunday school class for adults for over 10 years. Faith doesn't explain why when bad things happen to us or people we love- and it can provide comfort through the kindness and love of others caring for us when we need it.
But how do you reconcile that with free will that we supposedly have? If there is a plan then there is no free will and if there is free will then a plan can't exist
Job's story was Satan betting God that if God gave this guy enough problems, the guy would turn and curse God.
I'm not a believer, but if God has enough down time to hang out with the Great Enemy, then everything was perfect.
People of religion talk about how such horrendous experiences make us "stronger". I used to work in health care and I suppose my experience is only anecdotal, but I have seen so many families where the parents end up getting divorced a short time after losing a child. There is NOTHING about having a seriously ill child, and especially a child's death, that makes a family "stronger".
https://youtu.be/FtEvhZD7qvQ?si=Si2uXCrC3bhSNbGy
Belief it or Not podcast did a great video about Toxic Positivity among evangelicals and how harmful it can be to be taught to look at the bright side of everything. Your comment reminded me of the video!
The Epicurean Paradox is named after the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus, who first presented this argument. Epicurus was a proponent of the idea that pleasure and happiness were the highest good in life. According to him, the gods did not concern themselves with human affairs and were not responsible for human suffering. Instead, he argued that the natural world operated according to natural laws, and that human beings were free to live their lives as they saw fit.
The paradox goes as follows: If God is willing to prevent evil but is not able to, then he is not all-powerful. If he is able to prevent evil but is not willing to, then he is not all-good. If he is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil and suffering in the world?
This argument has been used to challenge the existence of an all-powerful, all-good God. If God exists, then why does he allow innocent people to suffer? Why do natural disasters occur? Why are there diseases and illnesses that cause so much pain and suffering? These are questions that have plagued theologians and philosophers for centuries
That’s a very interesting commentary, and you’re right: it does provide an unanswerable question. If God made us in His image, why are we so flawed? Why would He let millions of people die in concentration camps simply because they believed a version of religion slightly different than the Nazis? If He’s all-powerful, why let us suffer so much? I guess we’ll never truly know while we’re alive.
"God is testing you/us" is the response I hear from people.
Like god kills your kid in order to test your strength to him? WTF kind of rationale is that?
Here’s a song for you about a similar situation.
[Judith](https://youtu.be/xTgKRCXybSM?si=mLjAIe1Gyxs2SMfD)
Perhaps you’re less angry now and more reflective.
[10,000 days/ wings for marie](https://youtu.be/pBQsFDPKdNI?si=tcV0yIMwUgaNu53K)
Thanks for putting these up, I love Wings for Marie. It’s like, to him, his mother was more holy than any god or savior. “You are the light and the way that they’ll only read about”
I think about APC’s Judith and the questioning of how someone could still believe in god despite bad things happening (“not like you killed someone”) and Jaguar Love’s Georgia suggesting and refuting a reason for believing (“Not everything happens for a reason, but I know that it sounds appealing, when you lose something that’s not replacable”) on this topic.
People want to believe there’s a reason for their suffering. But that’s often kinda messed up - if you think about freak accidents like car accidents or child loss and say “oh that person died for a *reason*” then it follows that the other people involved are now guilt or grief stricken for a reason? That’s kind of a crap reason/plan, imo
It's a coping mechanism. Some people cannot comprehend why innocent people are afflicted, so there has to be a good reason and this helps them ignore that there is not.
My belief in god officially ended after the death of my young pregnant sister and my 2 yr old nephew on Christmas Day years ago. When people said shit like that or “everything happens for a reason” it pissed me the fuck off.
My 12 year old niece died in a car accident that was so violent they had to have a closed casket. For a fucking 12 year old. On her way back from volleyball practice. The priest at the funeral kept talking about how God must have needed her more in heaven than we did on earth and I wanted to fucking strangle him. There is no God, and if there is, he’s an asshole.
Also what’s the point?
Your dad gets fucked over for you to learn a lesson? Where was his lesson?
That’s so egocentric. Other people suffer for me to learn a lesson because I am some kind of main character and everyone else only exists and experiences live in relativity to my person.
Fucking main characters 🤦🏻
So this "God" person... Are they in the room with us now...? It seems to me intelligent people usually figure out around fifteen years old they were being gaslit and either pat their parents on the head and move on with their lives or they get in on the grift themselves...
"And thusly I clothe my naked villainy in old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ and seem a saint when most I play the devil. " Shakespeare
Man I lost both parents, all grandparents, all uncles, most aunts, several cousins, and a few friends. I’ve had a moderately bad time in my 30+ years but I’ve figured out if someone says that to me they get one chance to shut the fuck up lol
I was on the fence about my belief, and the thing that firmly knocked me off with a sledgehammer was a call I got when I worked at a call center. An elderly lady was just calling for her normal business, when she had to set the phone down a moment. I heard indistinguishable talking.
I have no idea what was said that triggered her, but when she came back she was sobbing and in severe emotional distress. She clearly needed comfort so I stayed on the line with her for around and hour.
I learned that this poor woman had been raped by her father when she was two. He broke her pelvis during the act. She lost her ability to walk and has been in some level of constant pain through her whole life.
If there's a God, it's indifferent at best.
I’m so sorry. My dad was 53 when he died - my youngest brother was just 10. It’s been 25 years and, although the pain of grief isn’t as sharp, it’s still a hole in my heart. Various people said ‘he’d been called back home’, or variations on that theme and they can all fuck off.
And it's not even biblical. The Bible has depictions of mourning, and they depict people coming together to grieve communally. Not explaining it away, not giving generic platitudes, but acknowledging their pain and feeling their pain with them.
My dad tried to die when I was 12, he OD'd so hard that all the doctors said that he'd never wake up and that on the slim chance he did his brain would be destroyed, a few months later he woke up with mild brain damage... ever since then my grandma has decided that God must have plans for my dad and doesn't even consider the possibility that like everything else in his life my dad just has through the roof luck
I thought you were going to say your dad woke up with mild brain damage and suddenly became religious. That happens a lot as well unfortunately, people finding God in near death experiences due to visual/audio hallucinations resulting from bad things happening to their brains.
Aside from my grandma I'm the most religious in my house... I believe in an unnamed Devine entity and science is the law it has imposed upon the universe, I came up with it to be able to understand things science can't explain
My grandfather punched a dude at my grandmothers funeral because he told my grandfather she was “in a better place”
Believe it or not. Dead in the ground is not a better place than at home with her husband kids and grandkids so maybe shut the fuck up with that.
I had a family member tell another family who had a child get diagnosed with cancer that, “god wouldn’t give you anything that you couldn’t handle”
I was like, god have their kid cancer to test their resilience? WTF is wrong with you?
They know that God obviously hates gay and transgender people, and loves guns. Yet, it's always "he works in mysterious ways" when it comes to the hundreds of millions of people facing food insecurity or those that die in school shootings
This is the main reason why I don't believe in God. Kids with cancer. There is no benevolence in that whatsoever, just cruelty from an indifferent universe.
Yeah, it's *totally* god's plan that my cousin's son lost both legs to cancer and has had bouts in other areas. And it's all due to god that he's still alive, not the outstanding work of a multitude of doctors, nurses, and support staff.
As a nurse, it always kinda pissed me off when we’d have a successfully resolved emergency and the family immediately invoked Jesus. I’m like, did Jesus start the difficult IV? Did Jesus spend hours attending seminars and doing ongoing education to have the assessment and communication skills to save your family member?
Nope, all me.
I’ve always hated people who say evil has to exist for free will to exist.
A truly omnipotent god could give us free will without the ability to do evil. I have no idea how they’d accomplish that, but if they’re omnipotent they’d be able to.
Right? As a human I'm incapable of truly comprehending the idea of "forever" yet when I was a Christian I was expected to believe that I would be in heaven forever. I don't know exactly how free will without evil would exist but why would I think God doesn't know how to do that? Also, we're given a halfway example, angels. They technically don't have free will except they must because Satan was an angel who fell from grace, as are demons. But angels who didn't fall from grace are supposedly "perfect" beings. It's all very confusing and hypocritical and frustrating and I feel so much better 18 years into my deconstruction than I did when I was battling with unanswered questions, intense unrelenting guilt, and most of all the FEAR of being rejected by God and going to hell or through the "great tribulation".
Skydaddy is a farce created to manipulate the masses using the unknown. Science will make it more of a fairytale and it will be considered a mental illness eventually.
I've said before that if there IS a god like they describe he doesn't deserve our praise and owes lots of people an explanation. Christians don't like that one.
“God doesn’t give you more than you can handle“ is one of those phrases that bugs me the most. Like I’m sure all the people that’ve committed suicide were able to handle things just fine. /s
It’s not even in the fucking Bible but these assholes don’t even actually read the book the supposedly love so much so they just assume it is bc it sounds like it would be. Source: me and my theology degree that I should probably burn ceremoniously in the backyard to spite a god that probably isn’t real but if he is, he owes me answers.
Satan was the good guy from the start, he calls god out like this multiple times throughout the bible, and he literally calls god evil in the first book. "Genesis 3:3—For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Whenever people say “god wouldn’t give you anything that you couldn’t handle” I just think of all the people killed in various genocides.
Go back in time and tell that to one of the walking skeletons in a concentration camp.
We had to restrain a grieving father that lost his young child when some dodo said to the effect that “more prayer is needed”. Like people can’t just keep their mouth shut.
God. Fucking. Damnit. Probably shouldn’t have restrained him. Some people need to learn the hard way. For people to assume they know how to grieve before suffering a devastating loss- is just asinine. People should save the advice if they haven’t gone through it before. It’s impossible to understand from the outside.
Yep. People told my mom the same thing, and also "Well at least you had 21 years with him" when my brother died in 2012. People can be so fucking tone deaf. How is my mom supposed to know her child is in a better place? And she didn't want only 21 years with him, she wanted her entire life.
So sorry for the loss of your grandmother ❣️
Religion makes people do and say horrible things. They don't understand that belief in an afterlife cheapens the value of our actual lives. It's an outdated belief system imposed by the ruling classes from the dark ages when peasant life was a life of suffering. We all only get one shot at making this good.
When my mom was waiting for liver transplant and it was touch and go, whenever we got good news, it was "God has answered out prayers," bad news, "god has a plan." It was maddening. She ended up dying, my mom was the sweetest woman on earth and her last 3 months were hell many days of excruciating pain, hallucinations that she had been raped, days where she didn't know who I was and was afraid of everyone. Yeah god is great. GTFOH.
I always find it very *interesting* that people whose prayers are answered are often privileged. How coincidental... 🤔
So...is it because God loves you more and because you prayed so much, Brenda, that your child didn't die from measles but children in impoverished countries do all the time? Or is it because you have access to clean water and medical care and good food?
It’s ok to believe in some type of higher power. To make it the basis of your entire existence, and even worse, to force your beliefs on others, just makes you an asshole.
The point of the sky daddy isn’t to be angry, it’s to be **big.** Remembering how small you actually are is something that typically has a good effect on how you treat the world around you. In the modern day it’s easier to turn to the stars to get the same realization, but a big person that sees everything and can do anything is easier to imagine than the vastness of the universe.
This may be true for some, but I've usually seen people digest it as "I'm good so I can go to heaven/avoid hell", which is back to acting in self interest
My cousin - a devout God-botherer if there ever was one - told me once that it is *impossible* for non-Christians to be moral because they don't have any guidelines. 🤦♀️
All major religions are based on irrational fear. The chances of any of them being accurate are zero. There may be a higher power, but nobody knows what it is at all. It’s a bummer that so many people walk around thinking they have it all figured out with a couple pages of a huge book. Having said all that…I’m definitely gonna repent before I die just in case.
People had a lot to be afraid of when they didn't even understand how the sun worked so it made sense that they created harvest gods and such. Life is hard and people we love randomly die and there is very little justice, so it gives some people a framework to explain things and some hope. And there's nothing wrong with that IF you stay in your lane and leave others out of it. But certain religions seem incapable of that, like Christianity. I don't recall Buddhists ever having such problems but I could be wrong.
Repent how exactly? If you confess your love for Jesus you still go to Hindu hell. If you pray for salvation from Vishnu you go to Christian hell. If you follow any god at all you are betting against a trickster god that put a bunch of false religions out into the world and will only save critical thinkers that reject organized religion.
It’s Pascal’s wager. Even repenting to one god is betting against the existence of every other possible version of god that will damn you to eternal torture. Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”?
>Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”?
Technically, yes. That was the point of the crucifixion. Christ dies for the sins of all mankind, past, present, future, the Bible states that all that is needed is to repent and accept him as one's lord and savior, and, in the words of Sabaton, "heaven is your destination."
If you ask me, it sounds like an easy out for evangelicals to be as vile as they want to those they don't like, and then ask for forgiveness right at the end.
> Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”?
If you are choosing the Christian God, then yes. Their Bible says it works that way. Mostly because rejecting people from your cul... I mean "church" is a bad financi... moral decision.
I believe if there is in fact a "higher power," there are but a few possibilities:
A (Best case scenario): The earth and life on it is effectively the growing process of a new god, each and every person and event a simulation of the full range of emotion, cognition, and intent. At some point, humanity would ascend to become a god.
B (Good scenario): They care, but are powerless to help the modern population due to it being too large/ complicated for them. At worst, their interactivity is more akin to strategy games such as Solaris, where the day-to-day lives of an area are too insignificant to be seen or noticed.
C (Neutral scenario): They've left humanity to fend for themselves, posssibly done with the project that is Earth or at least thinking "this is a complete project, I'll let it be to not interfere with free will and only observe."
D (Bad scenario): They could not give two fucks about one small planet in the vast universe.
E (Worst case scenario): We do not want any deity to get involved. They're more akin to being eldritch beings, and in the event they did get involved, things would be significantly worse than they are now. At best, they aren't aware of us and are too beyond our scope for them to be aware of us. Worst case, they're merely sleeping and the last few millennia of rampant prayer and violence in their name just happens to be the alarm clock they're ignoring, and we're close to the final snooze alarm.
Naturally, none of these are optimal, but would explain why there's a higher power who would allow their creations to suffer/harm others in the ways we have.
You’ve given this some thought, nice. One abstract thought I’ve always entertained is that whatever this is, simulation or not, fully visceral or not, lives outside of time. My monkeyesque brain can’t process what it would be like to exist out of time. My main point is that organized religions are a network of charlatans designed to make people do what they want them to do, and to make money.
There’s a legitimate argument to be made that even believing in something like that is dangerous. Faith based arguments and thinking leads to people believing in “alternative facts” and realities. It has promoted ignorance and hatred for hundreds of years.
Hot take: religion is fine because it's part of many cultures, and it would be hypocritical to abolish it. However, using religion as a shield for bigotry and other non-progressive beliefs is where I draw the line.
I think it's a very ingrained part of human nature to believe. The thing that we made that into over the course of a few thousand years is a horrible miscreant of social pressures and constitutionalised bigotry.
Most discussions about religion seem to ignore or misunderstand the nature of true belief, especially belief in ideas of cosmic proportion. If you **truly believe** in the ideas of, say, a moderately fundamental Christian faith, then it would be illogical *not* to center your entire existence around it, and to make every effort to bring all your loved ones along for the ride. Seriously, what is one lifetime of suffering for your gay child, as you harass them to "renounce sin", compared to a **literal eternity** filled with either **pure joy** or **pure agony**?
Once you grant the core tenets of many of these belief systems, and endeavor to take them literally, it's easy to extend this logic to a defense of abortion bans, reducing rights of atheists, making all of society in (your imagined view of) God's will, shit even suicide bombings. The problem is with the "facts" that have become embedded in people's minds.
It's a completely different thing to be a moderate, compassionate Christian, the way a big chunk of people are. I am not trying to bash that. But it must be recognized that the only reason they can coexist harmoniously in a multicultural society is a combination of watering down the original belief system, relegating more and more from fact to metaphor, or, deep deep down, not **truly** believing many of the tenets of the faith. (Or continue to shift what to cherry-pick, of the many contradictory passages -- but again, this is further distancing oneself from the original text and its alleged divine provenance).
Well, I'm just ranting, and probably many won't like what I'm saying. I grew up surrounded by Christians that, as far as I could tell, did truly believe a bunch of outlandish supernatural things, and it really was far from the most noxious stuff you see from some Christians nowadays, but still, I witnessed very obvious damage to their ability to reason about the world.
It is so easy for me to imagine Christian brains getting hijacked by Trumpism and right-wing Christian nationalist, based on my experience growing up. Argh shit pisses me off
I agree I believe in God whole heartedly that will never change, but once people start pushing that on to someone by force that is just being controlling and an asshole.
A couple of weeks after my mother died, at 43, when I was 12, someone pushed into my face unsolicited in the street to tell me that Jesus loves me, then got offended when I replied he had a fucking funny way of showing it.
People simultaneously assert that God has a plan for everything/everyone, but then also recognize that there are people in the world that act against God.
You can't have both.
Either God killed your family, or he doesn't give a shit about you.
My current boss was telling another employee "you know, God gives you what you need, not what you want" and I immediately turned to him and said "oh yeah, my fiancee and I definitely needed that still birth that you supposedly prayed to protect"
Silence
It's just a platitude people have been made to believe is comforting. Like, the Bible itself is filled with people raging against God, but our society is fucking obsessed with toxic positivity.
Like even if God has a plan, why should I like it?
I only wish people would see this type of thing. The whole reason the Lutheran Church was founded because they did not like what the church at the time was doing with getting all that money via confessions.
I used to go to a small church of about 15 people. It took place in a cafeteria in a middle school. I shit you not, we lead a prayer service to 'find Vera's headphones.' My mom and I both realized religion is fucking stupid. My father was a racist bigot and devout Xtian until he died of stomach cancer. Hahahahahahahahah
I don't mind people being religious or believing in a higher power as long as they don't a) push it on other people personally/politically, and b) use it to hide their complete apathy toward those around them during hard times, like in this post. I know lots of people who believe in a god, but still maintain progressive stances on pretty much everything and participate in mutual aid and things to help their local community. I've found it's usually a good sign when they don't go to an actual church or anything like that, because their religion is a personal thing for them only.
Anyway, I guess what I"m saying is that for me it's about how they treat others and what kind of role their religion plays in their own life and way of seeing the world. :/ If it's a weapon and shield to them, they can't be far enough away from me with their bullshit.
i believe because it brings me solace and my belief has helped me out. im not gonna go around telling people "god ordained you lose your children in a car accident", thats just fucked up.
My wife passed away 2 weeks ago leaving me and a 5 year old son. We were also in the process of adopting siblings to grow our family. She was predeceased by her mother, father and older brother and I lost my mom and dad. So my son was already growing up with no grandparents, biological aunts, uncles or cousins and now at five years old, lost his mom. I struggle to find the benevolence in a God that would do that to a kid unless you can tell me what it is he did to deserve that. How is THIS part of God’s plan?
I am not an atheist in that I am still open to the possibility of a higher power, but I reject God as portrayed in the Bible. (And also the Quran and the Torah but I have much less knowledge of those texts.)
God cannot be all-powerful and also loving. Both things cannot be true.
I can accept that someone might get cancer due to environmental factors, choices, etc. It sucks but a lifelong smoker getting lung cancer seems like "well, okay, that makes sense because smoking causes cancer". Sure. Free will etc.
I *cannot* accept that a loving God would allow children to suffer and die from cancer. Seemingly normal, healthy children get cancer. They don't make choices to cause it, they're not old enough for environmental factors to have taken a toll unlike, for example, someone working outside their whole life without sun protection getting skin cancer. (Of course this applies to nations wherein children are not routinely exposed to extreme environmental harm.)
If God is loving, then he wouldn't allow a toddler to suffer. Ergo, if God is truly loving, then he would intervene. Since he doesn't, he cannot be all-powerful. If he could intervene and chooses not to, then he cannot be loving.
Further, I do not accept that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Firstly, we know this isn't true, because otherwise any child who dies before they can accept Jesus would burn in hell for eternity. Not a very loving thing to do.
Secondly, I cannot support any religion that tells me that literally Stalin could be in heaven if he accepts Jesus but that Alan Turing won't be because he was gay. No. That is absolutely preposterous that there are people who *literally believe* that a serial killer could be in heaven for accepting Jesus and that's okay, but a Muslim who helped many people would burn in hell for believing the "wrong" things.
Frankly, there are many Christians that are just terrible people and if God would accept Marjorie Taylor Greene into heaven but send Larry Kramer and Sylvia Rivera and Simon Nkoli and Aziz Sancar and Andrew Carnegie to hell for being gay or non-Christian then...I don't want to associate with such a God. 🤷♀️
Former coworker just died a very long painful death of cancer. He was cured then it came back and killed him. Hard core fundamentalist christian. Exercised a lot, ate and lived healthy. Would wince if I said such a thing as "bitch" around him. VERY clean dude. Great human with a good sense of humor. I will remember him for his humor and kindness. I will not go to his funeral. People he despised will be there and all those nauseatingly psychotic folks that will say all those cliche's about the good dying like that. Ah and so many mass murdering dictators and wannabes live so long and good.
Most Christians just want to say something that helps the situation or supports someone they care about. I think religion, in large part, is a coping mechanism along with social rituals. These trite "words of comfort" are just phrases that cycle through their lives all the time in their communities. I think we nonbelievers get caught up in the logical fallacies of faith and so their "words of comfort" feel vacant and even insulting to us because we haven't assigned beliefs to these ideas the way they have. Their timing can be bad though, especially if they use your suffering as an "in" to proselytize. But I've found this isn't the norm. The norm is that they want to let you know they're thinking about you and are sorry for your loss.
When she had a still birth, my mom hated when people would tell her "God wanted her" or "She's playing in heaven" or something similar.
It made it like my mother did not want her children, that some other being needed her children more than her.
When I was just under 12, I lost my brother and grandma in a brutal car accident. My dad decided to put me in confirmation, after that. Nothing pushes a kid out of church faster than telling a CHILD that their 13 year old brother "deserved to die because he has a purpose to fulfill." WHAT PURPOSE CAN A 13 YEAR OLD **BOY** SERVE TO AN ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING GOD? No fucking way.
My mom suffered and died from Bale Duct cancer 3/7/2024. I still have people approach me and insist it was “all part of God’s plan”
"God is the name of the blanket we throw over the mystery to give it shape" - Barry Taylor
Those that say there's a lesson or a reason are just trying to justify a scary as shit existence in which none of us know what we're doing or why things happen
Edit: clarifying this is one way to understand why people believe in higher powers.
By praying to and releasing your worries to a God you reduce your stress and anxiety. Same effect can be accomplished with other mindfulness techniques, but for those who pray they feel that release of the stress and attribute it to God. Then they also feel less alone and like someone is watching out for them, all positive feelings which reinforce their belief in their God.
Because religions are a huge part of culture and philosophy, for one. When faced with the unknown and the abstract, it's not unusual to seek out an already established ideological structure, especially if it already surrounds you and influences your daily life.
Wealthy people believe in God because they have no problems and assume it is because they believe in god, not that they were born to wealthy parents.
Poor people believe in god because they hear wealthy people citing this nonsense as to why their life is good.
In short, if you believe in god, you are a fucking idiot.
my family is not hyper religious but believers. well then my uncle died. my grandma stopped going to the church. that man was not even 50 and healthy as fuck, still got a heart attack. if god exists then i have a personal problem with that guy
I’m a Christian musician with very (progressive) Christian parents and, being around other Christians of varying levels of devotion and progressiveness, I’ve heard it all.
My sister is losing her sight and the amount of stuff she’s heard from other people saying “God’s got a plan for you” or whatever just hurts me and has completely dulled her to Christianity and has made her, in her words, “mad at God for doing this, if God is even real”.
That being said, people have to be delusional to spin shit like the _death of a family member_ into a positive because “God’s got a plan for you” or something…
God gave humans free will. Humans pollute the whole planet, people get cancer, diseases and all kinds of health issues because of poisoned food, water and air. Then people claim it's God's will.... insane! Let's use our God-given reason to clean up our planet!
Exactly, like stop talking about God's plan, almost all this bullshit was and is *us*. We are the ones who chose to stray so far from equilibrium with the world around us that we don't know what it would look like anymore.
Was raised Catholic ( went to school and everything) had a friend die in a freak accident when I was young. She suffered, alone, before she finally died. Was already Kind of on the fence already. Her wake was filled with Catholic guilt and “it’s gods plan” bullshit. That was the final blow. It’s all an unhealthy form of copium. She deserved better.
It's more about tax free money, thinking your way is better than everyone else's, and don't forget about their pedophilia! They are definitely into that at a frightening disgusting rate! All regions are bad and fake. 2000 years ago when they were intelligent, it made sense to answer questions they didn't know the answers to. Nowadays? Makes zero sense!
We believe in God because we can’t fathom (not all of us) and afraid that life ends…that’s it. I do believe we go back to the billion years recycling program, what we were made of at one time is part of something else
In my experience, I have never had a problem with any religion in itself. Most teach valuable life lessons and to be good to your fellow man. The problems start when someone decides they suddenly know better than everyone else on how to interpret that faith and convince others that they should listen to this dingleberry who demands your time and money. This is the fundamental reason I avoid church like the plague. Regardless of what faith you choose to follow in life, do your own research and find your own answers.
"All this could be part of a plan. There is no way an atheist can prove it’s not. But it’s some plan, isn't it? With mass destruction, pitiless extermination, annihilation going on all the time. And all of this set in motion on a scale that’s absolutely beyond our imagination, in order that the pope can tell people not to jerk off."
- christopher hitchens
Gawd's Plan is to cause as much death and misery for the human race as possible. The whole purpose of religion is to get humans to *accept* it as normal, and give everything they have to a psychopathic Deity.
Because the universe and existence is random as fuck and scary. People who can't comprehend or deal with that need something to grasp onto in order to help them get through that.
The idea that all the hate and suffering we put one another through is just a "test" so we can all go and live in magic sky paradise afterwards is a comfort to them, even if it's a total fantasy.
The problem is there are too many people now who don't act right here and now because they're just waiting for their "eternity" hanging out with the magic sky man in his cloud palace or something.
It's a coping mechanism and an excuse for their own terrible behaviours.
One day my house was robbed two days before Christmas, literally grinch-style taking all the presents and shit.
My holy roller mother-in-law said they must’ve just needed it more than my family did.
My grandpa said that after my sister passed from complications related to pretty much lifelong alcoholism in 2018.
Gods plan fucking sucks then Grandpa.
I was in 6th grade when my house caught fire and a kid (who I already had problems with) told me that it was “part of gods plan” the next day… I wanted to deck him but instead said “fuck you”
This is why I can’t stand being around anybody religious in any way shape or form. Because like if true, why would you follow such a god? You’re telling me it’s in his plan to let millions of innocents die while evil motherfuckers rule this world? And you worship this guy? Get the fuck away from me please ty
As a Norse polytheist I don't have the issue about believing in all good or all evil God. Nor are my Gods all powerful, perfect or infallible. That is a monotheist thing and has led to the problems we are dealing with now. Also my religion or Divinities do not believe in proselytizing and we even have a place for atheists who may not believe in the Gods but also find value our way of life(Atheoheathens). Put this way, I do not care if you believe in my Gods or not, as I'm not responsible for your Perception's disabilities, or whatever religion you follow.
I live by the philosophy of Frith: I won't hurt you, if you won't hurt me. By the way, causing harm to groups who offered no physical harm or psychological harm to others such as the, LGBTQ+ community, especially the children(denying them life affirming healthcare), women's rights, etc.. I consider directly harmful to me and to everyone else who has a conscience.
I always love the "God doesn't give you more than you can handle" response when life is hard.
Must mean that rich people are fragile little snowflakes who couldn't handle not having enough money on them to buy lunch.
At this point by observation alone I have to believe that Christianity and mormonissm are cults... I agree with everyone else who commented on this post... what God would force you to suffer unimaginable pain in life... what kind of "plan" is that? Makes me think their God's idea of hell is living...
My husband killed himself when our kids were young and so many people told me it was God’s will. Fuck that! It broke me and left such a deep scar in my kids. My daughter is currently in a mental health facility because she tried to be with him this past weekend. Trauma is not a test from god. It doesn’t make you stronger. It leaves wounds!
Funny believers don't sit around and talk about how stupid non are. Nor do the try and say they have proof of a negative, people in general are just not smart.
My best friends aunty has this view even after her son died after getting hit by a speedboat while in the navy. Sorry but how is getting hit while in the water part of a plan.
My dad was 99% incapacitated for years before his (young) death, and Christians kept telling me "This is a lesson from God. Your family will grow from this." And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. Be whatever religion you want, but if you would spin severe, _severe_ disablement, suffering, and death into a positive, you're brainwashed.
I always said something similar about little kids stricken with cancer. What kind of God puts an innocent child and their family through something so horrendous? And for what? Make them and their families suffer immeasurably because of some “plan”? I’ll never understand it. It’s a question that can’t be unasked for me.
My grandpa said losing a child was by far the worst thing to ever happen to him, and he saw some stuff in his life. I assume that broke his faith, but his son would say "God was just testing our faith," and now I can't help but think "What do you think you're arguing? That god kills kids to increase the odds their parents go to hell?" It's just wild.
According to the Bible, God ordered Abraham to bring his son to the top of a hill and kill him just to prove his loyalty, and when he was about to kill him an Angel showed up and was like, “Nah, just fucking with you to see if you would do it!” It makes no sense to me anymore. I was in Catholic high school when 9/11 happened and I remember asking one of the priests why God would let that happen and got the, “It’s His plan and we are not meant to understand it.” explanation. How does that make any sense?
https://preview.redd.it/are6p72ktl4d1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2490aee98d5dba3c727782384dc32bd4a8863168
Well, father, when I kicked you squarely in the nuts, then pissed on your doubled-over body, I will stand back in awe as I see God’s plan go into effect.
It's the copout for people too lazy to think.
I mean, they're literally saying that it won't make sense to us because we can't see God's plan. It is possible that there's some greater plan and that all the suffering is towards some greater good that wouldn't happen if the suffering didn't. I don't believe that myself, but I can see that it's not impossible.
And even that doesn’t make sense because everything is God’s creation, so the suffering being necessary for some greater good is by design. God made the suffering necessary. It can’t be Satan, because God allows Satan to exist because God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Religions aren’t supposed to make sense, so these are the types of questions that help get people out of the cults.
That’s the issue with all arguments that involve a variation of “God needs to do this”. God is omnipotent, he doesn’t NEED to do anything. If he needs to do something it’s because he set it up that way. If God truly created EVERYTHING then he created stuff like logic, causation and necessity unless you believe such concepts are above God and he is bound by them. If that isn’t the case then every tragedy in history or that is yet to come is all part of his plan from the beginning.
Also “free will” isn’t free will if God created everything and is all-knowing. Just so many contradictions.
All religions ARE cults. Is that even a question?
What BLOWS MY FREAKING MIND? There are people of color that go to church hahahaha! Like WTF bro. They literally beat god into your ancestors and you teach that crap to your children to this day? Wooooooooooooow just can't take religious people seriously when they ignore human history.
And the book endorses slavery.
As a matter fact, you’ll hardly see people more religious than black people
Sure, and maybe we’re not meant to know or understand what that plan is until after we die or something? I just can’t imagine why an all-powerful God would want to curse someone with a lifelong malady or haunt them with the loss of a child, who might have suffered immeasurably, in the furtherance of some unknown plan. I guess I’ve just become disillusioned from the Catholicism I grew up with.
As have I. In the end, it comes down to faith. The Jesuits I talked to growing up even made that explicit; God would not, should not provide proof of His existence, because the test for true Christians was whether or not they had faith and believed in the absence of proof. For me, the answer ended up being that no, I did not believe.
Just gonna drop this bit of wisdom from Douglas Adams here. "I refuse to prove that I exist", says God, "**for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing**." "But", says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist, and so therefore you don't. QED." "Oh dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
So, as a part-time believer of a Christian-ish persuasion, I tell people that I have Schrodinger's cat relationship with God. God can either exist or not exist, and it doesn't really matter. I believe in something bigger than myself that is a common spark throughout humanity and connects me to others. I don't believe this because of the promise of some kind of afterlife reward, or to avoid some eternal punishment. I choose this path because trying to love others makes my life better. I'm not always good at it, and I'm willing to keep trying. I don't think that god is person-like, and I have a rather abstract concept of god as an entity at all. I don't believe in salvation, I don't believe in original sin or the Bible as the word of god, and I've been leading a Sunday school class for adults for over 10 years. Faith doesn't explain why when bad things happen to us or people we love- and it can provide comfort through the kindness and love of others caring for us when we need it.
But how do you reconcile that with free will that we supposedly have? If there is a plan then there is no free will and if there is free will then a plan can't exist
The whole book of Job was one of the first "faith-killers" for me.
“Well look at Job! Look at this anecdotal example about a made up person! See! It happens!” -dumb Christians
Job's story was Satan betting God that if God gave this guy enough problems, the guy would turn and curse God. I'm not a believer, but if God has enough down time to hang out with the Great Enemy, then everything was perfect.
People of religion talk about how such horrendous experiences make us "stronger". I used to work in health care and I suppose my experience is only anecdotal, but I have seen so many families where the parents end up getting divorced a short time after losing a child. There is NOTHING about having a seriously ill child, and especially a child's death, that makes a family "stronger".
https://youtu.be/FtEvhZD7qvQ?si=Si2uXCrC3bhSNbGy Belief it or Not podcast did a great video about Toxic Positivity among evangelicals and how harmful it can be to be taught to look at the bright side of everything. Your comment reminded me of the video!
Always look on the bright side of life. -some naughty boy
So many awful people walking around not full of cancer and he needs to give it to a child. Naw.
The Epicurean Paradox is named after the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus, who first presented this argument. Epicurus was a proponent of the idea that pleasure and happiness were the highest good in life. According to him, the gods did not concern themselves with human affairs and were not responsible for human suffering. Instead, he argued that the natural world operated according to natural laws, and that human beings were free to live their lives as they saw fit. The paradox goes as follows: If God is willing to prevent evil but is not able to, then he is not all-powerful. If he is able to prevent evil but is not willing to, then he is not all-good. If he is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil and suffering in the world? This argument has been used to challenge the existence of an all-powerful, all-good God. If God exists, then why does he allow innocent people to suffer? Why do natural disasters occur? Why are there diseases and illnesses that cause so much pain and suffering? These are questions that have plagued theologians and philosophers for centuries
That’s a very interesting commentary, and you’re right: it does provide an unanswerable question. If God made us in His image, why are we so flawed? Why would He let millions of people die in concentration camps simply because they believed a version of religion slightly different than the Nazis? If He’s all-powerful, why let us suffer so much? I guess we’ll never truly know while we’re alive.
Or, if we are made in the image of a God who is pure and good, how are we able to sin?
"God is testing you/us" is the response I hear from people. Like god kills your kid in order to test your strength to him? WTF kind of rationale is that?
I feel like most sane people figure this out as teenagers. I've seen a 7yo in a coffin. Brain tumour. Get fucked with any god that can do that.
“If god exists, it is our obligation to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett
Here’s a song for you about a similar situation. [Judith](https://youtu.be/xTgKRCXybSM?si=mLjAIe1Gyxs2SMfD) Perhaps you’re less angry now and more reflective. [10,000 days/ wings for marie](https://youtu.be/pBQsFDPKdNI?si=tcV0yIMwUgaNu53K)
The whole Judith 10000 days part 1 and 2 arc is one of the most powerful musical experiences ever. 😭
Please, forgive this selfish question, but What am I to say to all these ghouls tonight?…
“I am incapable of responding to you in an appropriate manner now, but I’d suggest you go home and reflect on what you just said.”
I’m alright, now it’s time for us to let you go….😭😭
Ya nailed with these songs!
Thanks for putting these up, I love Wings for Marie. It’s like, to him, his mother was more holy than any god or savior. “You are the light and the way that they’ll only read about”
I think about APC’s Judith and the questioning of how someone could still believe in god despite bad things happening (“not like you killed someone”) and Jaguar Love’s Georgia suggesting and refuting a reason for believing (“Not everything happens for a reason, but I know that it sounds appealing, when you lose something that’s not replacable”) on this topic. People want to believe there’s a reason for their suffering. But that’s often kinda messed up - if you think about freak accidents like car accidents or child loss and say “oh that person died for a *reason*” then it follows that the other people involved are now guilt or grief stricken for a reason? That’s kind of a crap reason/plan, imo
It's a coping mechanism. Some people cannot comprehend why innocent people are afflicted, so there has to be a good reason and this helps them ignore that there is not.
God is either all powerful or all caring. He’s not both.
If there is a god or gods, they are neither.
My belief in god officially ended after the death of my young pregnant sister and my 2 yr old nephew on Christmas Day years ago. When people said shit like that or “everything happens for a reason” it pissed me the fuck off.
My 12 year old niece died in a car accident that was so violent they had to have a closed casket. For a fucking 12 year old. On her way back from volleyball practice. The priest at the funeral kept talking about how God must have needed her more in heaven than we did on earth and I wanted to fucking strangle him. There is no God, and if there is, he’s an asshole.
Also what’s the point? Your dad gets fucked over for you to learn a lesson? Where was his lesson? That’s so egocentric. Other people suffer for me to learn a lesson because I am some kind of main character and everyone else only exists and experiences live in relativity to my person. Fucking main characters 🤦🏻
So this "God" person... Are they in the room with us now...? It seems to me intelligent people usually figure out around fifteen years old they were being gaslit and either pat their parents on the head and move on with their lives or they get in on the grift themselves... "And thusly I clothe my naked villainy in old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ and seem a saint when most I play the devil. " Shakespeare
Man I lost both parents, all grandparents, all uncles, most aunts, several cousins, and a few friends. I’ve had a moderately bad time in my 30+ years but I’ve figured out if someone says that to me they get one chance to shut the fuck up lol
Brainwashed and mean. Sorry for your losses.
I was on the fence about my belief, and the thing that firmly knocked me off with a sledgehammer was a call I got when I worked at a call center. An elderly lady was just calling for her normal business, when she had to set the phone down a moment. I heard indistinguishable talking. I have no idea what was said that triggered her, but when she came back she was sobbing and in severe emotional distress. She clearly needed comfort so I stayed on the line with her for around and hour. I learned that this poor woman had been raped by her father when she was two. He broke her pelvis during the act. She lost her ability to walk and has been in some level of constant pain through her whole life. If there's a God, it's indifferent at best.
It’s been almost 20 years, and I still hate the people who said this about my father who died suddenly. I was only 17.
I’m so sorry. My dad was 53 when he died - my youngest brother was just 10. It’s been 25 years and, although the pain of grief isn’t as sharp, it’s still a hole in my heart. Various people said ‘he’d been called back home’, or variations on that theme and they can all fuck off.
And it's not even biblical. The Bible has depictions of mourning, and they depict people coming together to grieve communally. Not explaining it away, not giving generic platitudes, but acknowledging their pain and feeling their pain with them.
My dad tried to die when I was 12, he OD'd so hard that all the doctors said that he'd never wake up and that on the slim chance he did his brain would be destroyed, a few months later he woke up with mild brain damage... ever since then my grandma has decided that God must have plans for my dad and doesn't even consider the possibility that like everything else in his life my dad just has through the roof luck
I thought you were going to say your dad woke up with mild brain damage and suddenly became religious. That happens a lot as well unfortunately, people finding God in near death experiences due to visual/audio hallucinations resulting from bad things happening to their brains.
Aside from my grandma I'm the most religious in my house... I believe in an unnamed Devine entity and science is the law it has imposed upon the universe, I came up with it to be able to understand things science can't explain
My grandfather punched a dude at my grandmothers funeral because he told my grandfather she was “in a better place” Believe it or not. Dead in the ground is not a better place than at home with her husband kids and grandkids so maybe shut the fuck up with that.
I had a family member tell another family who had a child get diagnosed with cancer that, “god wouldn’t give you anything that you couldn’t handle” I was like, god have their kid cancer to test their resilience? WTF is wrong with you?
They know that God obviously hates gay and transgender people, and loves guns. Yet, it's always "he works in mysterious ways" when it comes to the hundreds of millions of people facing food insecurity or those that die in school shootings
Only been like 20 years since a voice in someone's head sent us into a holy war
That's wild to think about. Maybe I'll be like, oh duh, after seeing it, but who are you referring to?
It was George W Bush. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
Or sends a lifelong criminal and rapist to save them.
This is the main reason why I don't believe in God. Kids with cancer. There is no benevolence in that whatsoever, just cruelty from an indifferent universe.
Yeah, it's *totally* god's plan that my cousin's son lost both legs to cancer and has had bouts in other areas. And it's all due to god that he's still alive, not the outstanding work of a multitude of doctors, nurses, and support staff.
As a nurse, it always kinda pissed me off when we’d have a successfully resolved emergency and the family immediately invoked Jesus. I’m like, did Jesus start the difficult IV? Did Jesus spend hours attending seminars and doing ongoing education to have the assessment and communication skills to save your family member? Nope, all me.
This. After a walking away from a nasty car accident, an ex said Jesus had saved her. No it was the engineers at Nissan that saved you, Bitch.
I look at things like that, and all the cruelty and suffering in this world, and ask myself "What loving God would allow this?"
There's no such thing as an omnipotent and omnibenevolent entity.
I’ve always hated people who say evil has to exist for free will to exist. A truly omnipotent god could give us free will without the ability to do evil. I have no idea how they’d accomplish that, but if they’re omnipotent they’d be able to.
Right? As a human I'm incapable of truly comprehending the idea of "forever" yet when I was a Christian I was expected to believe that I would be in heaven forever. I don't know exactly how free will without evil would exist but why would I think God doesn't know how to do that? Also, we're given a halfway example, angels. They technically don't have free will except they must because Satan was an angel who fell from grace, as are demons. But angels who didn't fall from grace are supposedly "perfect" beings. It's all very confusing and hypocritical and frustrating and I feel so much better 18 years into my deconstruction than I did when I was battling with unanswered questions, intense unrelenting guilt, and most of all the FEAR of being rejected by God and going to hell or through the "great tribulation".
Skydaddy is a farce created to manipulate the masses using the unknown. Science will make it more of a fairytale and it will be considered a mental illness eventually.
I've said before that if there IS a god like they describe he doesn't deserve our praise and owes lots of people an explanation. Christians don't like that one.
Their God is a monster. A petty, murderous monster that wants people to suffer.
Rape, murder, car accidents either god isn’t real or he isn’t all good or isn’t all powerful or a combination thereof
“God doesn’t give you more than you can handle“ is one of those phrases that bugs me the most. Like I’m sure all the people that’ve committed suicide were able to handle things just fine. /s
It’s not even in the fucking Bible but these assholes don’t even actually read the book the supposedly love so much so they just assume it is bc it sounds like it would be. Source: me and my theology degree that I should probably burn ceremoniously in the backyard to spite a god that probably isn’t real but if he is, he owes me answers.
These are people who read the story of Job and think that God is the good guy.
I love South Park’s take on Job
God was tempted by Lucifer into being prideful while a man suffered…seems like Lucifer was the good guy all along.
Satan was the good guy from the start, he calls god out like this multiple times throughout the bible, and he literally calls god evil in the first book. "Genesis 3:3—For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
That's when you beat the shit out of their face and tell them "God did it to you to test your resilience." (no I wouldn't actually do this)
Whenever people say “god wouldn’t give you anything that you couldn’t handle” I just think of all the people killed in various genocides. Go back in time and tell that to one of the walking skeletons in a concentration camp.
We had to restrain a grieving father that lost his young child when some dodo said to the effect that “more prayer is needed”. Like people can’t just keep their mouth shut.
God. Fucking. Damnit. Probably shouldn’t have restrained him. Some people need to learn the hard way. For people to assume they know how to grieve before suffering a devastating loss- is just asinine. People should save the advice if they haven’t gone through it before. It’s impossible to understand from the outside.
No kidding my friend.
Yep. People told my mom the same thing, and also "Well at least you had 21 years with him" when my brother died in 2012. People can be so fucking tone deaf. How is my mom supposed to know her child is in a better place? And she didn't want only 21 years with him, she wanted her entire life. So sorry for the loss of your grandmother ❣️
Religion makes people do and say horrible things. They don't understand that belief in an afterlife cheapens the value of our actual lives. It's an outdated belief system imposed by the ruling classes from the dark ages when peasant life was a life of suffering. We all only get one shot at making this good.
Your grandad is awesome.
When my mom was waiting for liver transplant and it was touch and go, whenever we got good news, it was "God has answered out prayers," bad news, "god has a plan." It was maddening. She ended up dying, my mom was the sweetest woman on earth and her last 3 months were hell many days of excruciating pain, hallucinations that she had been raped, days where she didn't know who I was and was afraid of everyone. Yeah god is great. GTFOH.
Damn I’m sorry man
I always find it very *interesting* that people whose prayers are answered are often privileged. How coincidental... 🤔 So...is it because God loves you more and because you prayed so much, Brenda, that your child didn't die from measles but children in impoverished countries do all the time? Or is it because you have access to clean water and medical care and good food?
Really one of the most insensitive and dismissive things one could say to someone grieving
It’s ok to believe in some type of higher power. To make it the basis of your entire existence, and even worse, to force your beliefs on others, just makes you an asshole.
It’s suppose to make one a better person but in general it does the opposite imo.
If you need an angry sky daddy to make you be a good person...you're not really a good person
Yup exactly.
I've heard someone say "if you need the threat of hell to be a good person then you're just a bad person on a leash"
The point of the sky daddy isn’t to be angry, it’s to be **big.** Remembering how small you actually are is something that typically has a good effect on how you treat the world around you. In the modern day it’s easier to turn to the stars to get the same realization, but a big person that sees everything and can do anything is easier to imagine than the vastness of the universe.
This may be true for some, but I've usually seen people digest it as "I'm good so I can go to heaven/avoid hell", which is back to acting in self interest
My cousin - a devout God-botherer if there ever was one - told me once that it is *impossible* for non-Christians to be moral because they don't have any guidelines. 🤦♀️
All major religions are based on irrational fear. The chances of any of them being accurate are zero. There may be a higher power, but nobody knows what it is at all. It’s a bummer that so many people walk around thinking they have it all figured out with a couple pages of a huge book. Having said all that…I’m definitely gonna repent before I die just in case.
People had a lot to be afraid of when they didn't even understand how the sun worked so it made sense that they created harvest gods and such. Life is hard and people we love randomly die and there is very little justice, so it gives some people a framework to explain things and some hope. And there's nothing wrong with that IF you stay in your lane and leave others out of it. But certain religions seem incapable of that, like Christianity. I don't recall Buddhists ever having such problems but I could be wrong.
Naw, no repenting for me. I don’t want to spend eternity with a bunch of smug theists with perpetual “i told you so” face.
I'll stick with getting tortured in hell with all of the babies God tortures in hell. I think my smugness could last forever.
Repent how exactly? If you confess your love for Jesus you still go to Hindu hell. If you pray for salvation from Vishnu you go to Christian hell. If you follow any god at all you are betting against a trickster god that put a bunch of false religions out into the world and will only save critical thinkers that reject organized religion. It’s Pascal’s wager. Even repenting to one god is betting against the existence of every other possible version of god that will damn you to eternal torture. Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”?
>Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”? Technically, yes. That was the point of the crucifixion. Christ dies for the sins of all mankind, past, present, future, the Bible states that all that is needed is to repent and accept him as one's lord and savior, and, in the words of Sabaton, "heaven is your destination." If you ask me, it sounds like an easy out for evangelicals to be as vile as they want to those they don't like, and then ask for forgiveness right at the end.
> Also, assuming the god you choose is real, you think you can be a lifelong atheist but pull one over on god at the end and say “look, technically I believed right before I died so I get to go to heaven anyway”? If you are choosing the Christian God, then yes. Their Bible says it works that way. Mostly because rejecting people from your cul... I mean "church" is a bad financi... moral decision.
I believe if there is in fact a "higher power," there are but a few possibilities: A (Best case scenario): The earth and life on it is effectively the growing process of a new god, each and every person and event a simulation of the full range of emotion, cognition, and intent. At some point, humanity would ascend to become a god. B (Good scenario): They care, but are powerless to help the modern population due to it being too large/ complicated for them. At worst, their interactivity is more akin to strategy games such as Solaris, where the day-to-day lives of an area are too insignificant to be seen or noticed. C (Neutral scenario): They've left humanity to fend for themselves, posssibly done with the project that is Earth or at least thinking "this is a complete project, I'll let it be to not interfere with free will and only observe." D (Bad scenario): They could not give two fucks about one small planet in the vast universe. E (Worst case scenario): We do not want any deity to get involved. They're more akin to being eldritch beings, and in the event they did get involved, things would be significantly worse than they are now. At best, they aren't aware of us and are too beyond our scope for them to be aware of us. Worst case, they're merely sleeping and the last few millennia of rampant prayer and violence in their name just happens to be the alarm clock they're ignoring, and we're close to the final snooze alarm. Naturally, none of these are optimal, but would explain why there's a higher power who would allow their creations to suffer/harm others in the ways we have.
You’ve given this some thought, nice. One abstract thought I’ve always entertained is that whatever this is, simulation or not, fully visceral or not, lives outside of time. My monkeyesque brain can’t process what it would be like to exist out of time. My main point is that organized religions are a network of charlatans designed to make people do what they want them to do, and to make money.
There’s a legitimate argument to be made that even believing in something like that is dangerous. Faith based arguments and thinking leads to people believing in “alternative facts” and realities. It has promoted ignorance and hatred for hundreds of years.
Hot take: religion is fine because it's part of many cultures, and it would be hypocritical to abolish it. However, using religion as a shield for bigotry and other non-progressive beliefs is where I draw the line.
I think it's a very ingrained part of human nature to believe. The thing that we made that into over the course of a few thousand years is a horrible miscreant of social pressures and constitutionalised bigotry.
It's okay to believe in something that extreme without any shed of evidence?
Most discussions about religion seem to ignore or misunderstand the nature of true belief, especially belief in ideas of cosmic proportion. If you **truly believe** in the ideas of, say, a moderately fundamental Christian faith, then it would be illogical *not* to center your entire existence around it, and to make every effort to bring all your loved ones along for the ride. Seriously, what is one lifetime of suffering for your gay child, as you harass them to "renounce sin", compared to a **literal eternity** filled with either **pure joy** or **pure agony**? Once you grant the core tenets of many of these belief systems, and endeavor to take them literally, it's easy to extend this logic to a defense of abortion bans, reducing rights of atheists, making all of society in (your imagined view of) God's will, shit even suicide bombings. The problem is with the "facts" that have become embedded in people's minds. It's a completely different thing to be a moderate, compassionate Christian, the way a big chunk of people are. I am not trying to bash that. But it must be recognized that the only reason they can coexist harmoniously in a multicultural society is a combination of watering down the original belief system, relegating more and more from fact to metaphor, or, deep deep down, not **truly** believing many of the tenets of the faith. (Or continue to shift what to cherry-pick, of the many contradictory passages -- but again, this is further distancing oneself from the original text and its alleged divine provenance). Well, I'm just ranting, and probably many won't like what I'm saying. I grew up surrounded by Christians that, as far as I could tell, did truly believe a bunch of outlandish supernatural things, and it really was far from the most noxious stuff you see from some Christians nowadays, but still, I witnessed very obvious damage to their ability to reason about the world. It is so easy for me to imagine Christian brains getting hijacked by Trumpism and right-wing Christian nationalist, based on my experience growing up. Argh shit pisses me off
Exactly. It's sad people do this. Forcing it on people is the worst, and so many religions try to do this.
I agree I believe in God whole heartedly that will never change, but once people start pushing that on to someone by force that is just being controlling and an asshole.
A couple of weeks after my mother died, at 43, when I was 12, someone pushed into my face unsolicited in the street to tell me that Jesus loves me, then got offended when I replied he had a fucking funny way of showing it.
So if it's god's plan that makes it pre-meditated murder. Right?
because they're stupid and afraid
Fear of death is the leading cause of religion. Indoctrination does the rest. Many intelligent people stuck in the cycle of indoctrination.
People simultaneously assert that God has a plan for everything/everyone, but then also recognize that there are people in the world that act against God. You can't have both. Either God killed your family, or he doesn't give a shit about you.
It's either God's plan or people have free will. It's a contradiction.
Especially when some people are running around trying to make laws that remove our free will.
My current boss was telling another employee "you know, God gives you what you need, not what you want" and I immediately turned to him and said "oh yeah, my fiancee and I definitely needed that still birth that you supposedly prayed to protect" Silence
I guess some kids just need bone cancer
It's just a platitude people have been made to believe is comforting. Like, the Bible itself is filled with people raging against God, but our society is fucking obsessed with toxic positivity. Like even if God has a plan, why should I like it?
Religion was invented to grift gullible people out of their money.
And to control them.
"You want to control people? Tell them a messiah will come, They'll wait for centuries.” - Dune 2 Here on earth we have people waiting 2,000 years...
I’m really, really not looking forward to 2033. It’s going to be a shit show.
Well, I wouldn’t say it was invented for that, but it definitely became a reason to keep it going.
I only wish people would see this type of thing. The whole reason the Lutheran Church was founded because they did not like what the church at the time was doing with getting all that money via confessions.
[удалено]
I laughed out loud…because unfortunately I know some people who absolutely do thank God for a parking space 🤦♀️
I used to go to a small church of about 15 people. It took place in a cafeteria in a middle school. I shit you not, we lead a prayer service to 'find Vera's headphones.' My mom and I both realized religion is fucking stupid. My father was a racist bigot and devout Xtian until he died of stomach cancer. Hahahahahahahahah
My favourite is when people pray for sports outcomes. SNL has a great skit about it, actually.
I don't mind people being religious or believing in a higher power as long as they don't a) push it on other people personally/politically, and b) use it to hide their complete apathy toward those around them during hard times, like in this post. I know lots of people who believe in a god, but still maintain progressive stances on pretty much everything and participate in mutual aid and things to help their local community. I've found it's usually a good sign when they don't go to an actual church or anything like that, because their religion is a personal thing for them only. Anyway, I guess what I"m saying is that for me it's about how they treat others and what kind of role their religion plays in their own life and way of seeing the world. :/ If it's a weapon and shield to them, they can't be far enough away from me with their bullshit.
i believe because it brings me solace and my belief has helped me out. im not gonna go around telling people "god ordained you lose your children in a car accident", thats just fucked up.
My wife passed away 2 weeks ago leaving me and a 5 year old son. We were also in the process of adopting siblings to grow our family. She was predeceased by her mother, father and older brother and I lost my mom and dad. So my son was already growing up with no grandparents, biological aunts, uncles or cousins and now at five years old, lost his mom. I struggle to find the benevolence in a God that would do that to a kid unless you can tell me what it is he did to deserve that. How is THIS part of God’s plan?
I am not an atheist in that I am still open to the possibility of a higher power, but I reject God as portrayed in the Bible. (And also the Quran and the Torah but I have much less knowledge of those texts.) God cannot be all-powerful and also loving. Both things cannot be true. I can accept that someone might get cancer due to environmental factors, choices, etc. It sucks but a lifelong smoker getting lung cancer seems like "well, okay, that makes sense because smoking causes cancer". Sure. Free will etc. I *cannot* accept that a loving God would allow children to suffer and die from cancer. Seemingly normal, healthy children get cancer. They don't make choices to cause it, they're not old enough for environmental factors to have taken a toll unlike, for example, someone working outside their whole life without sun protection getting skin cancer. (Of course this applies to nations wherein children are not routinely exposed to extreme environmental harm.) If God is loving, then he wouldn't allow a toddler to suffer. Ergo, if God is truly loving, then he would intervene. Since he doesn't, he cannot be all-powerful. If he could intervene and chooses not to, then he cannot be loving. Further, I do not accept that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Firstly, we know this isn't true, because otherwise any child who dies before they can accept Jesus would burn in hell for eternity. Not a very loving thing to do. Secondly, I cannot support any religion that tells me that literally Stalin could be in heaven if he accepts Jesus but that Alan Turing won't be because he was gay. No. That is absolutely preposterous that there are people who *literally believe* that a serial killer could be in heaven for accepting Jesus and that's okay, but a Muslim who helped many people would burn in hell for believing the "wrong" things. Frankly, there are many Christians that are just terrible people and if God would accept Marjorie Taylor Greene into heaven but send Larry Kramer and Sylvia Rivera and Simon Nkoli and Aziz Sancar and Andrew Carnegie to hell for being gay or non-Christian then...I don't want to associate with such a God. 🤷♀️
The song “Judith” by A Perfect Circle is the perfect example of how religious beliefs are in conflict to pain/suffering/death.
I love that song!
Because trying to reconcile the randomness of the multiverse is hard.
Former coworker just died a very long painful death of cancer. He was cured then it came back and killed him. Hard core fundamentalist christian. Exercised a lot, ate and lived healthy. Would wince if I said such a thing as "bitch" around him. VERY clean dude. Great human with a good sense of humor. I will remember him for his humor and kindness. I will not go to his funeral. People he despised will be there and all those nauseatingly psychotic folks that will say all those cliche's about the good dying like that. Ah and so many mass murdering dictators and wannabes live so long and good.
Most Christians just want to say something that helps the situation or supports someone they care about. I think religion, in large part, is a coping mechanism along with social rituals. These trite "words of comfort" are just phrases that cycle through their lives all the time in their communities. I think we nonbelievers get caught up in the logical fallacies of faith and so their "words of comfort" feel vacant and even insulting to us because we haven't assigned beliefs to these ideas the way they have. Their timing can be bad though, especially if they use your suffering as an "in" to proselytize. But I've found this isn't the norm. The norm is that they want to let you know they're thinking about you and are sorry for your loss.
Well said. I imagine we have all said the wrong thing to a friend or family member in a critical time of their lives with the intention of helping.
Easier to put the pressure on a god than on themselves.
When she had a still birth, my mom hated when people would tell her "God wanted her" or "She's playing in heaven" or something similar. It made it like my mother did not want her children, that some other being needed her children more than her.
When I was just under 12, I lost my brother and grandma in a brutal car accident. My dad decided to put me in confirmation, after that. Nothing pushes a kid out of church faster than telling a CHILD that their 13 year old brother "deserved to die because he has a purpose to fulfill." WHAT PURPOSE CAN A 13 YEAR OLD **BOY** SERVE TO AN ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING GOD? No fucking way.
Everything happens for a reason. Except sometimes that reason is because fuck you.
My mom suffered and died from Bale Duct cancer 3/7/2024. I still have people approach me and insist it was “all part of God’s plan” 
"God is the name of the blanket we throw over the mystery to give it shape" - Barry Taylor Those that say there's a lesson or a reason are just trying to justify a scary as shit existence in which none of us know what we're doing or why things happen
Because of smug posts like this? You don't change people's minds by telling them they're stupid and naive.
Bc people are gullible and need something to believe in.
Edit: clarifying this is one way to understand why people believe in higher powers. By praying to and releasing your worries to a God you reduce your stress and anxiety. Same effect can be accomplished with other mindfulness techniques, but for those who pray they feel that release of the stress and attribute it to God. Then they also feel less alone and like someone is watching out for them, all positive feelings which reinforce their belief in their God.
Groomed at birth...
Because religions are a huge part of culture and philosophy, for one. When faced with the unknown and the abstract, it's not unusual to seek out an already established ideological structure, especially if it already surrounds you and influences your daily life.
Yup, it is not like believing in a religion makes you a shithead. Shitheads just use their religion to be shitheads.
If there’s magic you don’t have to be accountable to the real world.
Wealthy people believe in God because they have no problems and assume it is because they believe in god, not that they were born to wealthy parents. Poor people believe in god because they hear wealthy people citing this nonsense as to why their life is good. In short, if you believe in god, you are a fucking idiot.
my family is not hyper religious but believers. well then my uncle died. my grandma stopped going to the church. that man was not even 50 and healthy as fuck, still got a heart attack. if god exists then i have a personal problem with that guy
I’m a Christian musician with very (progressive) Christian parents and, being around other Christians of varying levels of devotion and progressiveness, I’ve heard it all. My sister is losing her sight and the amount of stuff she’s heard from other people saying “God’s got a plan for you” or whatever just hurts me and has completely dulled her to Christianity and has made her, in her words, “mad at God for doing this, if God is even real”. That being said, people have to be delusional to spin shit like the _death of a family member_ into a positive because “God’s got a plan for you” or something…
God gave humans free will. Humans pollute the whole planet, people get cancer, diseases and all kinds of health issues because of poisoned food, water and air. Then people claim it's God's will.... insane! Let's use our God-given reason to clean up our planet!
Exactly, like stop talking about God's plan, almost all this bullshit was and is *us*. We are the ones who chose to stray so far from equilibrium with the world around us that we don't know what it would look like anymore.
Was raised Catholic ( went to school and everything) had a friend die in a freak accident when I was young. She suffered, alone, before she finally died. Was already Kind of on the fence already. Her wake was filled with Catholic guilt and “it’s gods plan” bullshit. That was the final blow. It’s all an unhealthy form of copium. She deserved better.
Why? Primarily: Fear of death. \*family/peer/social pressure & indoctrination are the convey belts. It’s pretty much that simple.
Brainwashing. There is no other explanation at this point.
Yep. The Bible was written and edited over a thousand or so years by wealthy powerful men as a tool to control those beneath them.
Seems like the plan was to end the bloodline
It's more about tax free money, thinking your way is better than everyone else's, and don't forget about their pedophilia! They are definitely into that at a frightening disgusting rate! All regions are bad and fake. 2000 years ago when they were intelligent, it made sense to answer questions they didn't know the answers to. Nowadays? Makes zero sense!
It seems Gods plan is for me to do things myself, and for you to beg me to help you. That’s what seems to always be the case.
That’s fine if someone else wants to believe in a higher power. Leave them be, just like they need to leave others be.
We believe in God because we can’t fathom (not all of us) and afraid that life ends…that’s it. I do believe we go back to the billion years recycling program, what we were made of at one time is part of something else
In my experience, I have never had a problem with any religion in itself. Most teach valuable life lessons and to be good to your fellow man. The problems start when someone decides they suddenly know better than everyone else on how to interpret that faith and convince others that they should listen to this dingleberry who demands your time and money. This is the fundamental reason I avoid church like the plague. Regardless of what faith you choose to follow in life, do your own research and find your own answers.
"All this could be part of a plan. There is no way an atheist can prove it’s not. But it’s some plan, isn't it? With mass destruction, pitiless extermination, annihilation going on all the time. And all of this set in motion on a scale that’s absolutely beyond our imagination, in order that the pope can tell people not to jerk off." - christopher hitchens
“What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.”🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄.
Not really a case to not believe in god by default. Following an organized religion seems like a more apt thing to call out.
Gawd's Plan is to cause as much death and misery for the human race as possible. The whole purpose of religion is to get humans to *accept* it as normal, and give everything they have to a psychopathic Deity.
As somebody raised in the church, I can not agree more with the “man get the fuck out my face” sentiment. I just feel it in my soul.
he's got a plan to kill EVERYONE!
Because the universe and existence is random as fuck and scary. People who can't comprehend or deal with that need something to grasp onto in order to help them get through that. The idea that all the hate and suffering we put one another through is just a "test" so we can all go and live in magic sky paradise afterwards is a comfort to them, even if it's a total fantasy. The problem is there are too many people now who don't act right here and now because they're just waiting for their "eternity" hanging out with the magic sky man in his cloud palace or something. It's a coping mechanism and an excuse for their own terrible behaviours.
One day my house was robbed two days before Christmas, literally grinch-style taking all the presents and shit. My holy roller mother-in-law said they must’ve just needed it more than my family did.
My grandpa said that after my sister passed from complications related to pretty much lifelong alcoholism in 2018. Gods plan fucking sucks then Grandpa.
Keepin’ it real.
I was in 6th grade when my house caught fire and a kid (who I already had problems with) told me that it was “part of gods plan” the next day… I wanted to deck him but instead said “fuck you”
This is why I can’t stand being around anybody religious in any way shape or form. Because like if true, why would you follow such a god? You’re telling me it’s in his plan to let millions of innocents die while evil motherfuckers rule this world? And you worship this guy? Get the fuck away from me please ty
As a Norse polytheist I don't have the issue about believing in all good or all evil God. Nor are my Gods all powerful, perfect or infallible. That is a monotheist thing and has led to the problems we are dealing with now. Also my religion or Divinities do not believe in proselytizing and we even have a place for atheists who may not believe in the Gods but also find value our way of life(Atheoheathens). Put this way, I do not care if you believe in my Gods or not, as I'm not responsible for your Perception's disabilities, or whatever religion you follow. I live by the philosophy of Frith: I won't hurt you, if you won't hurt me. By the way, causing harm to groups who offered no physical harm or psychological harm to others such as the, LGBTQ+ community, especially the children(denying them life affirming healthcare), women's rights, etc.. I consider directly harmful to me and to everyone else who has a conscience.
I always love the "God doesn't give you more than you can handle" response when life is hard. Must mean that rich people are fragile little snowflakes who couldn't handle not having enough money on them to buy lunch.
This fact sooo bad "God is good, all the time" Really? REALLY!? Miss me with that
At this point by observation alone I have to believe that Christianity and mormonissm are cults... I agree with everyone else who commented on this post... what God would force you to suffer unimaginable pain in life... what kind of "plan" is that? Makes me think their God's idea of hell is living...
God didn’t stop 9/11 because 🤷 but he made sure some sports team won a championship
My husband killed himself when our kids were young and so many people told me it was God’s will. Fuck that! It broke me and left such a deep scar in my kids. My daughter is currently in a mental health facility because she tried to be with him this past weekend. Trauma is not a test from god. It doesn’t make you stronger. It leaves wounds!
Funny believers don't sit around and talk about how stupid non are. Nor do the try and say they have proof of a negative, people in general are just not smart.
"Funny believers don't sit around and talk about how stupid non are." Are you sure?
My best friends aunty has this view even after her son died after getting hit by a speedboat while in the navy. Sorry but how is getting hit while in the water part of a plan.