#[SPOILERS FOR TV AND BOOKS.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_tv_-_season_1_.28book_spoilers_allowed.29_.2F_et_al.)
If the creator of the post indicates that they have only read up to a certain book, or seen up to a certain episode, respect their spoiler level and hide comments behind spoiler tags when appropriate. Otherwise, assume all book and tv spoilers are allowed.
* * *
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think I liked the TV show better than most other fans did but it was still very polarizing to me. There are some parts (almost all in season 2) that I really love and other parts that I cannot fathom why they made changes they did. Season 1 was pretty rough for me with the writing and just overall storytelling being the thing that took it down the most. I think there were some COVID constraints which led to the disaster of the finale episode that so many people in this thread are talking about (as far as I know, I do think they had to cut down on some of the CGI and other plot points got changed because of actor changes, etc.).
Like I said, I liked season 2 so much more than season 1 but it's still so different from the books that some of the changes are hard to justify in my eyes. By mid-season 2 I'd pretty much given up on a direct adaptation and was kind of just accepting that this was a different story with some similar plot points.
To sum up, there are so many things that really really impress me about the show and make it seem, at least in my eyes, that the show is being run by massive fans of the wheel of time. I think not everyone will agree with that statement but I do genuinely believe most of the people involved in running the show are huge huge WOT fans. That fact alone is enough to get me to watch and even enjoy some parts of the show, but there are also huge issues that I really want them to change going into future seasons.
I'd say watch it if you want to be entertained at times and annoyed at other times, but don't watch it if what you really want is a one-to-one adaptation. As wheel of time fans, we like our epic moments from the series, but be prepared to be disappointed on that front. In terms of intrigue and the more slow-burn parts of the books, I think they do a really good job, but there are like 0 of the epic, Dumai's Wells level, duel-in-the-sky level wheel of time moments.
The season finales have been exceptionally bad. The mid points of Season 2 were promising but that finale episode was a clown show. Pointless fight choreography and bizarre mechanics for the magic system. I would not recommend.
The season 2 finale has a 9.0 on IMDB, so it's hardly considered "exceptionally bad" by most people. However, as usual, a small number of book fans got very upset about certain changes (like magic system trivia).
Wow that's surprising to me that that episode is the best rated of the show. I would say season 2 as a whole I thought was great except for that episode. I don't think for me it's much about changes as much as it is about the story moments.
\[Season 2 spoilers\] >!I don't like the end to Egwene's arc being that she frees herself. That undercuts her arc going forward and the fear she still feels about the Seanchan if she freed herself and killed her own tormentor. I also really didn't like Nynaeve being totally useless when Elayne was hurt. I get they're trying to show her block and I like them introducing that. But Nynaeve is not useless when she can't channel with a person who is wounded. And she seemed useless at helping Elayne I think that would've been a good time to show Nynaeve going into Nynaeve the Wisdom mode to fix her up. Elayne healing Rand I think also undermines Nynaeve's identity as being the one who can heal. And Elayne's as the one who can charge into battle. Elayne being by Egwene's side holding back Ishamael would've made much more sense to her character while Nynaeve was able to heal him perhaps by focusing on the collar Egwene was wearing? Maybe also using that anger to free Egwene. That simple change makes a lot of their character arcs work better. I also didn't like how useless Rand was. That's been a theme throughout the season but it comes in here in the end that Egwene is just as new to channeling as Rand is and she can hold back Ishamael basically alone somehow and yet Rand can't do anything? They keep telling us how powerful Rand is I want them to actually show Rand being that powerful and having a great moment of everyone amazed how strong he is. A moment like Nynaeve had in season 1 with healing everyone. The Horn I also don't think was well enough explained throughout the season. Ingtar and the Horn's story got sidelined for a while but I think that needed more time to have the significance when Mat blew it.!<
> Wow that's surprising to me that that episode is the best rated of the show.
It just shows how disconnected angry purists on Reddit are from mainstream opinion. That's not an exclusively WoT phenomenon, e.g. there is also a giant gap between how the Witcher TV show is perceived around here and its actual popularity.
I'm always surprised that book readers fail to see that Nynaeve's inability to heal at Falme is just setting up her S3 arc, where surely she will be able to figure out how to use her anger to fight Moghedien. If she can always heal people when necessary, her block would not be a significant handicap. (BTW it's book canon that Nynaeve tried to but couldn't heal Rand at Falme.)
I think calling 4000 imdb ratings mainstream is as inaccurate as calling 4000 reddit comments mainstream. Both are specific subsets of opinions. It's also worth looking at more than just the ratings but how many. For example there were 8.3k ratings for the season 1 finale and only 4.8k for the season 2 finale. That's a little more than half as many ratings as last season. That's saying a lot of people lost interest between the series, and the people still watching are enjoying it so they rate it higher. That happens fairly often with later books in a series being rated more highly because the people who didn't like the series don't make it to book 6 or season 2+.
I also think your Witcher example may not be the best one. Look at the imdb for season 3. Only 3/8 are rated higher than a 6 and none above a 7. I think most peole agree the Witcher isn't doing well as of Season 3.
\[Season 2\] >!With Nynaeve I understand what they're setting up. But they also removed her big win in book 2 which is saving Egwene. And I think my problem with her arc is not just that she can't heal people magically, that is focusing on her block, that's great (though they haven't explained that). But she's also useless when facing an injured friend she can't heal magically. That's not Nynaeve to me. Nynaeve is also this worlds equivalent of a doctor, and that's not what was shown in the episode. The other thing is having Elayne able to heal Rand of a serious injury kind of undercuts how special Nynaeve is. She's the incredible healer, and even if Nynaeve couldn't have healed Rand, I don't like that they just had Elayne do it instead.!<
It was exceptionally bad. Opie wasn't asking us what we thought of the IMDB ratings. We were asked about our current feelings on the show and whether or not another chance is recommended. That S2 finale was garbage. Were it not for spoiler rules, I could make a list of bad TV decisions without even getting to the magic. Long story short, it's just as bad as the S1 Finale.
Just for kicks, watch "The Dusty Wheel" livestream watchalong with Brandon Sanderson. The looks on their faces is akin to somone catching a nose full of b.o....
Worst freaking CGI-cartoon dragon that I have ever seen
You mean [this guy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKih3pmFflJjvaCOrSw-VMhoz81h302h97lg&usqp=CAU).
Is the same as [this guy?](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/06145800/Wheel-of-Time-Dragon-Reborn.jpg).
What would you want it to look like?
> It was exceptionally bad.
Reddit haters always have this weird tendency to pretend that their opinions are objective fact, and to resort to over-the-top criticism (e.g. a TV show is never "somewhat disappointing" but always "exceptionally bad" or "garbage").
What the IMDB/RT scores (despite review bombing!) show is that your opinion is not very representative.
> Just for kicks, watch "The Dusty Wheel" livestream watchalong with Brandon Sanderson. The looks on their faces is akin to somone catching a nose full of b.o....
You may be projecting a bit there. In the same stream, BS said: "Good job to the team, by the way, who are making [The Wheel of Time]. This is an extremely hard story to adapt. There’s a lot going on, they only have eight episodes. For me, I’m complaining because I feel like it’s illustrative of my philosophy on storytelling. But at the same time, it’s amazing that The Wheel of Time can be adapted and be this good."
BTW, he hasn't seen the rest of S2 so his opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.
> Worst freaking CGI-cartoon dragon that I have ever seen
FWIW, the show was nominated for a BAFTA for VFX. Perhaps you have unrealistic expectations for the VFX in a TV show.
Industry awards ad nominations are things I take with as many grains of salt as IMDB ratings. That season finale's CGI was bad. The writing was bad. The action scenes were bad. It was bad TV. I would not recommend.
I don't get why you are so invested in it but that's your cross to bear. For myself, I will keep telling OP that despite some good middle episodes, that season finale was garbage and exceptionally bad. I'll do it spoiler-free too. The episode gets progressively worse and leaves a foul taste when it's done.
Saying it was exceptionally bad is an opinion. A show being good or bad is an opinion. You're the one acting like they presented it as a fact. They were asked for their opinion and gave it. Their opinion is that the episode was exceptionally bad.
That's also not at all indicative of what BS said as a whole on that stream. He said he enjoyed the scripts of many of the earlier episodes. And yes he hadn't seen most of the stuff beforehand. But he mostly had criticisms for the last episode and it was pretty clear he didn't enjoy the episode. And he argued against many of the choices they made.
Yeah it's clear they aren't enjoying that episode. Especially Sanderson. Plus I feel for him too as his name is on the show. Especially if the storytelling and writing is the problem on the show that can reflect on him.
Not just Sanderson. There is the younger guest who does Youtube videos. His face looks like he ate a bucket full of lemons. The host's reactions are also indicative of displeasure.
The writing for that episode was a hatchet job. It was such a hatchet job that the horn is found off-screen and that is only mentioned in passing,,, "this lady from Cairhien...."
There is so much wrong with the scripting of that finale that it's difficult to even decide where to begin complaining about it. Disposable bad guys... disappearing bad guys... random bad guys on beaches... Horn of Valere that looks like an Avon product...Plot armour on the way to and on top of the tower so that we get a Super-Friends teamwork moment... /barf
Much like the S1 Finale, it needed more drafts before filming started. Everything is rushed and the end product is underwhelming.
Yes I know that was my point. They stayed their opinion and did nothing wrong and I agree with that opinion though I wouldn't be quite as strong about it. The person I replied to was acting as if they stated it as a fact and they gave their opinion as asked by the post.
>Reddit haters always have this weird tendency to pretend that their opinions are objective fact, and to resort to over-the-top criticism (e.g. a TV show is never "somewhat disappointing" but always "exceptionally bad" or "garbage").
Yeah this is a huge issue that I have with a lot of show haters. They don't seem to understand that there is a middle ground. You can say it does good things while still criticizing it. A lot of the Whitecloaks see that the show deviates from the book and go "This is the worst thing ever", when things are more complex than that. You can dislike the changes from the books but that doesn't make it BAD! They feel like they think they have an obligation to call the show shit and not give it credit for anything, and it's so fucking annoying
FWIW, I was defending the show during S2 right up until episodes 7 and 8. Then, I concluded that the show runners are just bad at finales. The finale for s2 was exceptionally bad even if shown in a vacuum without having read the books. It was terrible NCIS quality action TV.
Trivia? The magic system is completely different my guy. There is no returning people from the dead in the books. Linking prevents people from severing themselves or dying.
So what? That's a pretty decent number of votes for a TV episode on IMDB. (E.g. the finale of Reacher S2 - Amazon's most watched show AFAIK - has 4500 votes.)
Given that haters tend to be *more* motivated to vote on sites like RT/IMDB than normal people (see the current review bombing of *The Acolyte* by angry Star Wars "fans"), scores on those sites are probably *lower* than what the general public thinks.
Nah, it’s 4.8k reviews on a single site. There are other sites that differ, and sites without reviews that have negative discussion. Regardless, my entire point is you can’t present just IMDB as the general public’s view. Also, yeah the Acolyte was pretty rough so it deserves some bad reviews.
The show, season 1 at least, was an incredible disappointment for me. I really wanted a more faithful adaption. The casting looked solid if a bit of a departure but I think it was understandable trying to make it more appealing to current trends, and they all did look like they captured the characters personalities well.
But so much of the show so severely departed from the books that it was hardly recognizable as the same story even if set in the same world. Iirc they addressed this saying it's not the same story but a different turning of the wheel . Which is fine and I'm happy for those to whom it appealed but I really wanted to see the story I read brought to screen as it was told not another version of events.
I'm seeing people say season 2 pulled more to the course so maybe I'll check it out eventually but so far as I've seen it's a disappointment for me personally
It didn't. It looked like it might get on track about halfway through, but by the end, no. No it's not even the same story anymore. The lore has been gutted to the bone, as has the theme and core plot points.
That's disappointing. Honestly. If they just like end it. Kill rand the dark one wins and then like zoom out and back into Edmonds field at the start and restart I'd be psyched. Like I'm sure they won't but it could fit with later the story rand saw many turnings where he failed.
Wishful thinking to hope they'd nuke it and restart, keep the cast but just go hard faithful to the text. Maybe in another few decades they'll try again and stay to source
Honestly I have a hard time seeing them pulling off the Last Battle in live action. An animated series really is the way to go. Something like Castlevania but with more episodes and braid tugging.
Idk I think like.... production value really comes into question. Like cg sure but I'd rather see practical but then cost would be huge.
An anime release of faithful to source would be dope af.
Definitely some things to enjoy as a book reader but I think it's fair to say it's disappointing. However we are definitely not getting another WoT show so I just find enjoyment where I can with it.
Personally I think the settings/costume or whatever that department really nailed it on most everything and that's been cool to see in the show. I know there are some passionate book readers in that department doing the Lord's work but cannot say the same for the writing lol
The two seasons of the show are why I picked up each and every audiobook and listened to each and everyone of them through the slow parts, the boring parts and the exciting and thrilling parts. Given the complexity of the books, I don't they could ever do the books fairly because of the depth of story that would require. So the show must be a watered down version that must have fewer characters and fewer plot lines. To keep all the reductions together and make sense, the writers need to plan for the future and map it out as best they can for the current season and all the future seasons that have not been approved yet and may not get paid for.
So, I like the show for what it is, and remember the books will always be more satisfying.
S2 was looking promising but then it shat the bed by the end (again). I could see how people unfamiliar with the books to think it was good but to most readers it was insulting.
Season 1 was a bad adaptation and a bad fantasy show. Season 2 was a slightly less bad adaptation (they brought some stuff back closer to the books) but a decent fantasy show.
IMO season 2 strayed further from the books and that's the reason it was able to be better. Season 1 was just close enough to the books that all of the tons of changes they made were very obvious and glaring. Season 2 was further away from the books so the changes didn't stand out as much and it was easier to just enjoy the show for what it is rather than having to fight off constant comparisons.
Agreed it started further due to where S1 took it. I felt like S2 got back closer to what the books would be and it felt like some of the plot stuff was being…repaired for lack of a better word.
The show made it so that the Dragon Reborn could be female just as well as male. That completely undercuts a major plot point, and a major point about the setting. With a woman Dragon Reborn, there’s no reason for fear. There’s other details - the changes to Matt and Perrin, the ludicrous ceremony for the Womens Circle, Emonds Field as a cosmopolitan trade hub - but that, to me, was the major failure in understanding the source material.
That sounds like it was a major sticking point for me, I remember in S01 they did have some mystery as to wether Egwene was the Dragon, IIRC. Kinda confused me over the whole male and female sides to the one power with the male side of it being tainted and dangerous.
I understand the show made it clear that it was Rand but certainly at the time, the showrunner sounded like he was trying to fuck with central things in the series that is tied to gender.
No he wasn’t. He just made it so people didn’t fully trust the pronouns written down thousands of years ago so morraine was staying open minded just in case.
Yessss the downvotes from this toxic as fuck subreddit lol never fails. Y’all hate reality
I don't think it's necessarily a change they made. The show made it so Moiraine doesn't know if the Dragon Reborn is male or female. And that's something I think they should've explored more to show what the implications of a male vs female Dragon Reborn were as that theoretically would've undercut that central tension.
But Moiraine not knowing that and it ends up being the Dragon is Rand isn't really a major change that undercuts all that much.
If it’s possible that Moirane isn’t sure whether the Dragon is male or female, then the setting makes no sense. When it’s not certain that the Dragon will use the tainted half of the Power, then it’s not certain that the Dragon will bring apocalyptic destruction; it’s no longer clear that the male Dragon will clash with the mostly women-ruled society; and the people who swear to the Dragon are much less creepy wackos. The Dragon being male is crucial - it’s one of the ways that his coming will upend society. That the show doesn’t understand this means they haven’t understood the basic premise of the books. That’s like a Dune movie where Arrakis isn’t a desert.
The prophecies about the Dragon are still there even if Moiraine isn't sure whether the Dragon is male or female. Assuming they keep those remotely similar to how they were in the books, those all point to apocalyptic destruction.
And in the books men going bad is a huge concern, that turns out to not at all be why any of those prophecies turn out the way they do. There is destruction at the coming of the dragon, and it's a problem that he's going mad until it's dealt with, but a lot of the world shaking events and the destruction of cities and mass death associated with the Last Battle and everything leading up aren't from Rand or any male channeler madness.
It is a change, and I don't think it was necessary, or done well if they were going to make the change. But with the prophecies all saying things like,
>The [Dragon](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon) shall be Reborn,
and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth.
In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people,
and he shall break the world again by his coming,
tearing apart all ties that bind.
Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us,
yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the [Last Battle](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Last_Battle),
and his blood shall give us the Light.
Let tears flow, O ye people of the world.
Weep for your salvation.
Even if you switch all the he's to they so that Moiraine wouldn't have known if it was going to be a boy or girl, you still have a lot of bad things to fear in the Dragon's coming. That would still have the same ramifications for the world of the book and the fear they'd have of the Dragon. And there's still a 50/50 shot it's going to be a man so all that reason to fear him is still there. A cointoss at that fate is not great odds.
There‘s absolutely no reason to change this detail. The change adds nothing (except consternation with those who have read the books). Unless they wanted to make the girls more important, which again, demonstrates a massive cluelessness about the books.
I don't disagree with you there at all. As I said I don't think it was a necessary change. And I think even if you were going to make this change, the only reason I can think of to do it would be to use that to explain why everyone should really hope for a female dragon not a male one and to explain the madness of male channelers. But they didn't do that at all. So it's just a weird mystery that didn't go anywhere.
But I think as changes go, this one doesn't necessarily change much going forward or have huge implications. It's just Moiraine thought something and was wrong. And if they show the prophecies they should probably swap the he's to they's to be consistent but idk if they will.
>If it’s possible that Moirane isn’t sure whether the Dragon is male or female, then the setting makes no sense.
The **only** thing changed was Moiraine (and to a lesser extent Suian) saying that they were not prepared to put 100% of their trust in the prophecies, and run the risk of defaulting a loss to the Dark One if they were wrong by doing so and buying into the wrong interpretation.
She was hedging her bets. Which, of course, is all the excuse some people need.
There’s no argument needed lol you simply are wrong.
The show made it so morraine wasn’t confident in the pronouns is all.
But I see others have already told that to you so I guess now you’re just what? Willfully ignorant ?
> With a woman Dragon Reborn, there’s no reason for fear.
Except that it turns out that the Dragon *isn't* a woman, so this is irrelevant. I never get why people think that this is somehow a major change.
Because it’s important that the Dragon has to be male - that’s a huge part of the gender dynamic in the setting. WoT has a female dominated society, and a large reason for that is that the last Dragon (a guy) broke the world, and that the next Dragon (again, male) will shatter the world again. Of course, the show totally missed this part.
It’s a huge difference whether the dragon could be male or female, and turns out to be male; or whether it has been clear for literally thousands of years that the next guy who’s going to shatter the world will be a man again, just like last time, good thing we have a queen.
It didn’t really get better. Not that it’s really bad.
But they did a number of characters really dirty - namely Mat, Rand, and Min. Also, Egwene is a Mary Sue now - deal with it.
And just like season 1, and particularly in the season 2 finale, the show casually breaks its own rules for no apparent reason. The show runner just doesn’t seem to care much about logic and internal consistency (must be too boring). So it’s got plenty of Star Wars “Holdo hyperdrive” moments.
Aside from that, as I said, it’s fine. It’s got good elements as well.
Season 2 was better than Season 1 but that is not saying much. Season 2 had similar plot points for several characters but It strayed more from the books than Season 1 imo. My biggest problem is that the new stuff they made up is boring or things they had to change just don't add anything. Also they lack a lot of execution of ideas. They think of a cool concept or they they want to recreate something from the book but the way they do it looks cheap and off a CW show. They written themselves into corners and I don't know how they are going to move forward. There are things to like in the Season like Egwene overall minus freeing herself and fighting Ishamael, Nynaeve and the tests, Lanfear and Ishamael. Also Elayne was wonderful and she and Rand had a meet cute moment in the end. It is kinda funny to me that Rand in the show is more of a ladies man than in the books. Watch the show if you want but I would give it until episode 4 cause the first 3 were boring af
Imo Season 2 is a step in the right direction. They changed A LOT of things from the books, but I personally liked most of the changes and I think they covered the overall plot of book 2 nicely. My main issue is with the season finale where they just seem to be making too many unnecessaey changes.
The show is very hit and miss though, either it clicks with you and you enjoy it or you get turned off it a lot. Compared to Season 1 though I'd say Season 2 was definitely better.
The single change to the S2 finale that I dislike the most is Egwene getting out of the a’dam by herself. One of the themes of WoT is that you can’t do everything by yourself and needing help isn’t weakness. So Egwene gets help from Min, Nynaeve, and Elayne to escape her seemingly hopeless situation in the book.
In the show? Well we can’t have our Strong Female Character getting rescued by other people, so Egwene has to save herself. A knock-on effect of this change is that all of a sudden Nynaeve and Elayne have nothing to do in the finale and the writers didn’t bother to give them anything new.
I was so excited to see Rand fight Ishamael in the clouds above Falme while Mat and Perrin charge with the heroes, and we didn't get that. To me it would be like making the Dune movies and then not having Paul ride a sandworm into battle. Why change these moments that people have been waiting literal decades for? Now that Mat is a hero of the horn, him beating Gawyn and Galad would mean nothing, if it ever happens. Just frustrating changes to me.
>I was so excited to see Rand fight Ishamael in the clouds above Falme while Mat and Perrin charge with the heroes, and we didn't get that.
Not only did we not get that, we didn't get Rand fighting Ishamael at all. He needed the help of all of his friends to beat him. He's supposed to be the freaking Dragon Reborn and yet the writers refuse to give him a moment where he can show that by himself. And that's the second finale in a row!
That's a shame. The finish up to the Great Hunt and that scene you describe is one moment (in anticipating the show) that I'd hope they would do well, it was such a good ending to that book.
Same with Dumai's Wells and some other bits, though I know the show isn't nearly that far along yet
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.
It's painfully mediocre, in my humble opinion. It's particularly jarring to see Dune, a book people didn't dare touch to make an adaptation, actually receive an insanely good one while WoT suffered from being highjacked by idiots who believe they can write a better story than RJ.
Season 2 was a huge upgrade over season 1, and I think the show is heading in the right direction. They change a lot, especially in season 2, but nothing hugely important and the story still gets to where in needs to. I'm excited to see how season 3 plays out.
Same! Going into season 2, I thought there was almost no way they could salvage the show but I think they did a great job with what they were left with, with some issues of course. I was genuinely shocked at the promise that season 2 showed and I'm really excited for season 3.
The show should be called “The Wheel of Time: The Magic of Friendship”. It abandons the central Chosen One narrative of the books in favor of an ensemble cast where everyone has an equal part to play.
This isn’t necessarily a good or bad thing. TV is a different medium and choices need to be made in turning a book into a show. There are legitimate reasons why a TV might need to move away from the core narrative structure of books, not the least because so much of the conflict in the books is the dramatic irony different characters having different information/assumptions and making “wrong” choices. That’s not going to be an easy adaptation. So change is inevitable and not necessarily positive or negative.
My issue with the show is that they can’t seem to decide what they want to be. It’s pretty clear there is some kind of committee meddling with the story, because while individual episodes make sense the episodes themselves don’t link together in a coherent way. Rules that are a big deal in one episode are ignored in others. Characters change viewpoints based on the needs of the plot. It’s kind of a mess. The show generally does a good job of presenting the world and getting you invested. Which makes it all the more frustrating when the big ideas and big characters fizzle out.
It’s clear there is a good story buried somewhere in the mess. I just don’t think these writers have the skills, desires, or ability to find it.
Tl;dr: the show cares more about the Rule of Cool than internal logic and consistency.
I'd hardly say that the characters are equal. The boys have been handled terribly in both seasons. Rand hasn't even been allowed to have a single moment that's entirely his own despite Egwene and Nynaeve having several. One of my biggest complaints about the show is that it hasn't given us any reason to care that Rand is the dragon or what that means for the world.
In case I wasn’t clear, I think the show has abandoned the Chosen One narrative. Rand Al’ Thor is NOT a big deal in the world of the show (IMO). So there’s a reason we’ve not been given a reason to care about him to the same degree. My money is on something like the Dragon Reborn is actually Captain Planet (by our powers combined…) as the end result. Which could actually be a good show. But it’s not the Wheel of Time.
If you look at it as a Generic Fantasy Show, they’ve done some good things with what they’re trying to do. So it’s not surprising that people who have never read WOT don’t find it objectionable.
I described the show’s changes to someone once as if they renamed the Harry Potter books to “The Wizarding World of Hogwarts” and removed the prophecy about Harry. Now it’s all the students fighting Voldemort because he’s evil. And that’s it.
I really liked season 2 and thought there were some damn good episodes. The recasting of Mat could have completely destroyed the show and I’m surprised more people don’t point towards that being the potential downfall. I think it was difficult for them to write around the main character’s absence in season 1 but everyone else is great in season 2. Selene is especially terrific in the show and gets more time than she does in the books which is a huge win for me.
Someone else did indeed point out how much they have fucked with the flow of things by changing the actor for Mat, and I am hoping it is resolved easily enough!
I am not surprised to hear that 'Selene' is getting a lot of screen time, I have not seen who is playing her but from the description in the books of her, yeah 🤣
From what I've heard, if you don't know the books, or have lackluster feelings about them, the show is okay. If you are a big fan of the books, you will hate the show
I'm a huge fan of the books and I really liked the show. Not as much as the LoTR movies or Game of Thrones, but I was still excited to see the characters on screen.
I have read the series 5 times and I love the show.
I wish we had more Rand focus sometimes but I think that will come in time.
Second season is amazing
Season 2 is better, but still very bad imo. The writing is often pretty incoherent, the plot has holes. Perrin is basically walking around in a circle all season until the plot needs him to be somewhere.
It’s funny because, up until Fallout, the WoT show was Amazon’s most watched original.
And yet the show is only ever a fraction as good as the books.
The good parts about the show:
-impeccable casting with strong performances from many of the actors. Rosamund Pike was born for this role, and Daniel Henny and Joshua Stradowski are stand outs.
-Amazing production value including great sets and costumes.
-Great source material. There’s a lot to pull from, and even some poorly, the first couple books are great.
The bad: wasted character arcs, lack of direction with some characters, and when the show deviates from the source material- it’s noticeably bad.
But above all, this is one of the few shows that actually spits in the face of book fans. They cut key moments from the books and don’t replace them with anything better.
The worst of this is that The Great Hunt was adapted without “Sheathing the Sword” and out of the Rand/Lan training. And instead of the battle above Falme, they have Egwene hold her own against Ishamael.
Like I get with abridging parts of the show. It seems like the show will set up Suroth and Eamon Valda sooner, that they might combine elements of book 3 and book 4 for the next season.
But then there are baffling decisions like having Perrin have a dead wife? And completely cutting out Camelyn, and making Min a darkfriend at the beginning of the series?
Like dear god it shouldn’t be this hard to adapt the show unless they plan on cutting 90% of the material.
Personally, I really enjoyed Season 02, especially the middle parts. Elayne & Lanfear were absolutely perfect and Egwene and Nynaeve's arcs were surprisingly emotional for me. The finale was okay-ish and significantly worse but I can live with it. Understandably, the finale is agreeably the most important episode and it sadly taints (heh) the whole season.
I would say the show is exceptionally bad, both as an adaptation and as a stand alone show. The acting, writing and direction are all quite poor. The story telling isn't even really trying to tell the Wheel of Time story, and what story it is telling is muddled and poorly thought out.
I enjoyed both seasons a lot.
I think most people generally agree the 2nd season was better than the first and the finales were the weaker points.
If things like a woman potentially being the dragon reborn or Rand not being an immediate powerhouse bother you then the show probably isn't for you and that's ok.
The show got gutterfucked by the pandemic resurgance, the loss of an actor, and dominos from those two events causing cascade reactions as other actors had shooting schedules rearranged, the last two episodes of S1 getting large rewrites, and all of S2's original script being tossed in order to make a "bridge" season from the ending of S1 to where S3 should be starting from.
It's also got a lot of hatred from the usual racist / incel / troll suspects, which drowns out actual honest criticism.
I liked it. Give S2 a try.
Barney Harris, the original actor for Mat, left the show before season 1 was finished due to unspecified reasons, resulting in a recasting. Dónal Finn took over the role in season 2.
The last scene Mr. Harris filmed was the party about to go into the Waygate. Insert a **whole** bunch of last-minute rewrites about Mat turning his back on the party, Mat not being there when Fain took the ruby-hilted dagger and the horn, all three lads not being able to go after Fain like in the books, and Moiraine writing a letter to the *Aes Sedai* warning them that Mat had the potential to be incredibly dangerous, which lead to the season 2 rewrite that Liandrin intercepted the letter and had Mat locked away until she could figure out why he was important, before deciding he wasn't and cutting him loose after over half a year's captivity.
Domino effects include "Well if Mat's split away from Rand and Perrin, we should split them up as well, have all three lads go their separate ways for a time" which is how Rand ends up bailing on the party to seek out his own fate, by working his way into contact with Logain on the hope Logain could teach him something, which means he wasn't around for Lan to teach him the forms, which means he's not a Blademaster yet, which means he pulled the Indy on Turak instead of dueling him because he doesn't have the skills yet. Lan teaching Rand got pushed off a season.
One change. **Lots** of dominoes.
Well said and this is where I fall in my feelings towards the show. I grew up with the books, read tEotW when I was 11 and got teary-eyed on the final passage of AMOL at age 31. The story has made a meaningful impact on my life and mental health (positively).
I enjoy the show because I get to revisit a world that I love through a new lense. I know the books like the back of my hand, so the deviations and plot twists have me jumping a bit. I rewatched S2 again recently and like it, understanding what they had to work through with Covid and Barney.
They said they wanted to get to basically Book 4 by Season 3 and I think that's right where we're heading.
The changes don't bother me much. They had to take a pretty big fork in the road and I can't find fault in that. RJ had plenty of inconsistencies after the first 3 books (the end of tEotW makes zero sense, and at least 4 Forsaken are completely worthless) and I am not going to throw the best chance I have at the characters I love show me the world I grew up with because Rand isn't the Man early enough or God forbid women have more agency than heaving bosoms and being insufferable nags (straight dude here).
I don't think S2 was much better than S1 and had some issues of its own, it's just that there was no point in a given book reader imagining it was going to snap back and better mirror the books at that point, or suddenly be crafted by a different team, so the only thing to do was strap in and go off on this other road with them for whatever it would be worth.
That said, opinions diverge widely and I wouldn't accept any given cluster of internet people's opinion on it either way rather than check it out yourself. People fangirl gush over this show and others absolutely trash it, with everything in between. People criticize it for the usual reasons someone would criticize a given show and others criticize it with what may be other agendas. And people defend it in both of those ways. It gets very emotional and internetty and tiresome. So it gets pretty tangled and it can be hard to tell what's legit and what's smokescreen. Who's right? Watch and see.
If I were you, I would wait until S3 is all the way out next year and then buy Prime for one month and binge all three in sequence and then cancel Prime. $15, not a biggie.
Be aware that there is also r/wotshow for all your tv adaptation discussion needs. Watch out for spoilers and heightened champion/hater warfare.
Season 2 was quite a bit better. The last episode was still a disappointment but not as much as season 1 finale was.
Season 2 stayed even further from the books than season 1 but it honestly helped. Season 1 was close enough to the books that all the changes became very obvious and glaring. Since 2 strayed a bit further it became easier to separate the two in my mind so I could just enjoy the show for what it is rather than constantly being upset by the changes.
I have faith that season 3 will be even better. They're getting into some of the best parts from the books now and it's going to make for some great moments. The show is finally going to be able to fully dive into what makes Wheel of Time great instead of being stuck in the awkward opening parts where the world hasn't quite settled into place yet.
But I really don't have faith the series will ever be completed. They are taking far too long in between seasons and that is going to cause more and more problems that continue to pile up. It's just not going to happen IMO.
As soon as they announced it I knew it could not my faithful imo it is a show that's impossible to shoot. It didn't bother me that it was different than the books. It was ordinary around 2/5 for the first season and 3/5 for the second. I'll always watch it because it's WoT. But it's behind shows like Witcher. It's closer to Xena than it is GoT.
There is stuff to like about the shows. Covid kinda fucked them on production of season one so they had to alter the finale significantly. I think they were just smoking crack when they wrote the season 2 finale. Tbh I liked the rest of the season minus a few plot points
It’s a different turning of the wheel. Different story and vibe from the books.
Season 1 was awful but my friends said Season 2 was better. I’ll get around to it at some point, but there is way more stuff in the queue.
I like the show as its own entity. I just forget about the books and watch to entertain myself. I definitely think some of the decisions they’ve made regarding the show are absurd but I have to remind myself to separate book from show.
I love the show, but I would much rather read the books.
I don't have a problem with adaptations, even ones that deviate from the source material, but I set a pretty low bar for TV as a medium and am used to watching many wildly different adaptations of plays.
It's possible to look at it as another Turning of the Wheel or Mirror World, and they have deliberately leant into that in order to fit the enormity of WoT into a TV format. Many people, however, want to see what's in the books with as little deviation and addition as possible. Outside of the fandom, it's doing pretty well, but you know what type of fan you are.
If all else fails, start rereading the books or listening to the audiobooks. At least you know where you are.
S2 has generally been better received than S1, e.g. it has a 86% critic score and 81% audience score on RT (up from 81% and 60% for S1). However...
> I remember having issue with them having seemingly changed something very fundamental about the channeling or maybe something related.
If you get upset about that kind of thing, then the show is not for you. (Especially since the only change to channeling I remember from the S1 finale is about burning out/dying when linked, but that's hardly fundamental.)
Both seasons are a good story. However, neither season really follows the WOT books. They are honestly a spinoff story in my opinion. Maybe an alternate time line that ends up in about the same place at the end but they got there in a very different way. I think the writers of the series basically read the cliff notes and made up their own story. Having said that I will watch all the seasons as they release, because I love the characters and enjoy seeing them brought to life, even if it was done wrong.
Spoilers below.
Season 1 issues...
They are all already adults
Perrin is married and kills his wife in a murderous rage.
Perrin is also in love with Egwene and jealous of Rand.
The year long journey to Camlyn is skipped and replaced with a couple day long journey to the white tower.
Perrin never meets his Elias he just suddenly has yellow eyes and knows wolves.
Matt doesn't lose a year of memories due to the cursed blade, and never meets Mordith.
Logain is skipped over and replaced by Mazrim Taim who is gentled mid season.
Rand knows he's the Dragon Reborn, goes to the eye of the world with just Morain and after beating the dark one he asks Morain to tell everyone he died so he leaves for Cairhein.
Morain and the Amerlyn are still involved in a big hidden lesbian relationship.
Lan never teaches any of the boys to fight, which is a huge oversight and problematic to the end of the 2nd season. How's Rand supposed to beat a Seanchan blade master or ishamael if he hadn't trained for two hours every night for the better part of a year on his way to Caemlyn and then for another year while searching for the horn? He can't. Which leads to the massive issues with season 2.
Season 2 issues...
It is entirely a different story
The Aeilman Perrin frees from the cage is Avienda which also starts a weird relationship between them.
Rand faked his death so he can't go with Perrin and Matt to hunt the horn.
Rand is hanging out in Cairhein banging "Selene" every night for the entire season, as he tries to get to Taim who is held in a loony bin in Cairhein to ask questions about chaneling. Taim is nuts.
When Morain sees Selene she immediately knows it is Lanfear and suits her throat while she and Rand are having Sex and Rand just accepts the truth. No questions asked.
Lanfear is not nearly beautiful enough.
None of the character growth that came from being stuck in the alternate reality via the traveling stone happens.
Uno is killed by the Seanchan, brutally I might add. So no prophet for you.
Paden Fain just gives the knife back to Matt, which Matt uses to make a deadly Ashendarii the kills at the smallest touch.
The Amerlyn tries to capture Rand.
When Matt blows the horn he suddenly remembers he's a hero too, and he has all his previous memories. (This one pissed me off a lot, it was very sloppy writing, and felt unispired. Plus Matt's not a hero of the horn.)
Rand doesn't know how to use his sword so he just kills the blade master with the power immediately.
Rand doesn't know how to fight or use the one power so Egwene is the one that kills Ishamael, NOT Rand Althor the Dragon Reborn.
Rand doesn't know how to fight or use the one power so there is no epic battle waged in the sky above Falme, which is a important prophesy of the dragon. So instead Morain makes a fire Dragon appear in the sky above Falme. So prophesy bullet dodged in the absolute laziest way possible.
As soon as I realized:
1. A show that does the books justice is not possible unless it's a animated show that's 30 episodes for each of the 14 seasons. But live action? No way that was going to happen.
2. It's a show based on the characters and events of the books - and that's all. Characters, reaching events, and everything else is up for adaptation.
3. It needs immense adaptation to fit a TV audience.
I ended up really liking it. And if it's the closest thing I'll get to live action, then I'm happy with it.
1)I do agree that it should've been animated but that's moreso because time passes in the real world. Let's say the show doesn't get cancelled the cast is gonna be 10 years older at least which really offsets the whole the world could end tomorrow thing the books have. Tho 30 episodes is a bit excessive cuz most of the length of the books come from world building which can be done on literal seconds on screen
2) true but it should also have matching tone
3) no it doesn't, it needs some condensing. But with the amount of details in the books it is exceptionally easy to go "this scene is supposed to look exactly like this" the hard parts are internal monologue of Perrin and Rands/lews therrin talking to each other
#[SPOILERS FOR TV AND BOOKS.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_tv_-_season_1_.28book_spoilers_allowed.29_.2F_et_al.) If the creator of the post indicates that they have only read up to a certain book, or seen up to a certain episode, respect their spoiler level and hide comments behind spoiler tags when appropriate. Otherwise, assume all book and tv spoilers are allowed. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think I liked the TV show better than most other fans did but it was still very polarizing to me. There are some parts (almost all in season 2) that I really love and other parts that I cannot fathom why they made changes they did. Season 1 was pretty rough for me with the writing and just overall storytelling being the thing that took it down the most. I think there were some COVID constraints which led to the disaster of the finale episode that so many people in this thread are talking about (as far as I know, I do think they had to cut down on some of the CGI and other plot points got changed because of actor changes, etc.). Like I said, I liked season 2 so much more than season 1 but it's still so different from the books that some of the changes are hard to justify in my eyes. By mid-season 2 I'd pretty much given up on a direct adaptation and was kind of just accepting that this was a different story with some similar plot points. To sum up, there are so many things that really really impress me about the show and make it seem, at least in my eyes, that the show is being run by massive fans of the wheel of time. I think not everyone will agree with that statement but I do genuinely believe most of the people involved in running the show are huge huge WOT fans. That fact alone is enough to get me to watch and even enjoy some parts of the show, but there are also huge issues that I really want them to change going into future seasons. I'd say watch it if you want to be entertained at times and annoyed at other times, but don't watch it if what you really want is a one-to-one adaptation. As wheel of time fans, we like our epic moments from the series, but be prepared to be disappointed on that front. In terms of intrigue and the more slow-burn parts of the books, I think they do a really good job, but there are like 0 of the epic, Dumai's Wells level, duel-in-the-sky level wheel of time moments.
This describes exactly how i feel
Season 2 was better. Season 2 was very bad. Both these statements are true. I'll let you sort out the nuances therein.
🤣
The season finales have been exceptionally bad. The mid points of Season 2 were promising but that finale episode was a clown show. Pointless fight choreography and bizarre mechanics for the magic system. I would not recommend.
The season 2 finale has a 9.0 on IMDB, so it's hardly considered "exceptionally bad" by most people. However, as usual, a small number of book fans got very upset about certain changes (like magic system trivia).
Wow that's surprising to me that that episode is the best rated of the show. I would say season 2 as a whole I thought was great except for that episode. I don't think for me it's much about changes as much as it is about the story moments. \[Season 2 spoilers\] >!I don't like the end to Egwene's arc being that she frees herself. That undercuts her arc going forward and the fear she still feels about the Seanchan if she freed herself and killed her own tormentor. I also really didn't like Nynaeve being totally useless when Elayne was hurt. I get they're trying to show her block and I like them introducing that. But Nynaeve is not useless when she can't channel with a person who is wounded. And she seemed useless at helping Elayne I think that would've been a good time to show Nynaeve going into Nynaeve the Wisdom mode to fix her up. Elayne healing Rand I think also undermines Nynaeve's identity as being the one who can heal. And Elayne's as the one who can charge into battle. Elayne being by Egwene's side holding back Ishamael would've made much more sense to her character while Nynaeve was able to heal him perhaps by focusing on the collar Egwene was wearing? Maybe also using that anger to free Egwene. That simple change makes a lot of their character arcs work better. I also didn't like how useless Rand was. That's been a theme throughout the season but it comes in here in the end that Egwene is just as new to channeling as Rand is and she can hold back Ishamael basically alone somehow and yet Rand can't do anything? They keep telling us how powerful Rand is I want them to actually show Rand being that powerful and having a great moment of everyone amazed how strong he is. A moment like Nynaeve had in season 1 with healing everyone. The Horn I also don't think was well enough explained throughout the season. Ingtar and the Horn's story got sidelined for a while but I think that needed more time to have the significance when Mat blew it.!<
> Wow that's surprising to me that that episode is the best rated of the show. It just shows how disconnected angry purists on Reddit are from mainstream opinion. That's not an exclusively WoT phenomenon, e.g. there is also a giant gap between how the Witcher TV show is perceived around here and its actual popularity. I'm always surprised that book readers fail to see that Nynaeve's inability to heal at Falme is just setting up her S3 arc, where surely she will be able to figure out how to use her anger to fight Moghedien. If she can always heal people when necessary, her block would not be a significant handicap. (BTW it's book canon that Nynaeve tried to but couldn't heal Rand at Falme.)
I think calling 4000 imdb ratings mainstream is as inaccurate as calling 4000 reddit comments mainstream. Both are specific subsets of opinions. It's also worth looking at more than just the ratings but how many. For example there were 8.3k ratings for the season 1 finale and only 4.8k for the season 2 finale. That's a little more than half as many ratings as last season. That's saying a lot of people lost interest between the series, and the people still watching are enjoying it so they rate it higher. That happens fairly often with later books in a series being rated more highly because the people who didn't like the series don't make it to book 6 or season 2+. I also think your Witcher example may not be the best one. Look at the imdb for season 3. Only 3/8 are rated higher than a 6 and none above a 7. I think most peole agree the Witcher isn't doing well as of Season 3. \[Season 2\] >!With Nynaeve I understand what they're setting up. But they also removed her big win in book 2 which is saving Egwene. And I think my problem with her arc is not just that she can't heal people magically, that is focusing on her block, that's great (though they haven't explained that). But she's also useless when facing an injured friend she can't heal magically. That's not Nynaeve to me. Nynaeve is also this worlds equivalent of a doctor, and that's not what was shown in the episode. The other thing is having Elayne able to heal Rand of a serious injury kind of undercuts how special Nynaeve is. She's the incredible healer, and even if Nynaeve couldn't have healed Rand, I don't like that they just had Elayne do it instead.!<
It was exceptionally bad. Opie wasn't asking us what we thought of the IMDB ratings. We were asked about our current feelings on the show and whether or not another chance is recommended. That S2 finale was garbage. Were it not for spoiler rules, I could make a list of bad TV decisions without even getting to the magic. Long story short, it's just as bad as the S1 Finale. Just for kicks, watch "The Dusty Wheel" livestream watchalong with Brandon Sanderson. The looks on their faces is akin to somone catching a nose full of b.o.... Worst freaking CGI-cartoon dragon that I have ever seen
People are complaining about the dragon? That was a pretty sick dragon. What are you on?
Looked like the end of Justice League International when Martian Manhunter defends the Great Wall of China. It looked like a 20 year old cartoon
You mean [this guy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKih3pmFflJjvaCOrSw-VMhoz81h302h97lg&usqp=CAU). Is the same as [this guy?](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/06145800/Wheel-of-Time-Dragon-Reborn.jpg). What would you want it to look like?
>What would you want it to look like? Something inspiring or something menacing
> It was exceptionally bad. Reddit haters always have this weird tendency to pretend that their opinions are objective fact, and to resort to over-the-top criticism (e.g. a TV show is never "somewhat disappointing" but always "exceptionally bad" or "garbage"). What the IMDB/RT scores (despite review bombing!) show is that your opinion is not very representative. > Just for kicks, watch "The Dusty Wheel" livestream watchalong with Brandon Sanderson. The looks on their faces is akin to somone catching a nose full of b.o.... You may be projecting a bit there. In the same stream, BS said: "Good job to the team, by the way, who are making [The Wheel of Time]. This is an extremely hard story to adapt. There’s a lot going on, they only have eight episodes. For me, I’m complaining because I feel like it’s illustrative of my philosophy on storytelling. But at the same time, it’s amazing that The Wheel of Time can be adapted and be this good." BTW, he hasn't seen the rest of S2 so his opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. > Worst freaking CGI-cartoon dragon that I have ever seen FWIW, the show was nominated for a BAFTA for VFX. Perhaps you have unrealistic expectations for the VFX in a TV show.
Industry awards ad nominations are things I take with as many grains of salt as IMDB ratings. That season finale's CGI was bad. The writing was bad. The action scenes were bad. It was bad TV. I would not recommend. I don't get why you are so invested in it but that's your cross to bear. For myself, I will keep telling OP that despite some good middle episodes, that season finale was garbage and exceptionally bad. I'll do it spoiler-free too. The episode gets progressively worse and leaves a foul taste when it's done.
Saying it was exceptionally bad is an opinion. A show being good or bad is an opinion. You're the one acting like they presented it as a fact. They were asked for their opinion and gave it. Their opinion is that the episode was exceptionally bad. That's also not at all indicative of what BS said as a whole on that stream. He said he enjoyed the scripts of many of the earlier episodes. And yes he hadn't seen most of the stuff beforehand. But he mostly had criticisms for the last episode and it was pretty clear he didn't enjoy the episode. And he argued against many of the choices they made.
Watch their faces on the livestream.
Yeah it's clear they aren't enjoying that episode. Especially Sanderson. Plus I feel for him too as his name is on the show. Especially if the storytelling and writing is the problem on the show that can reflect on him.
Not just Sanderson. There is the younger guest who does Youtube videos. His face looks like he ate a bucket full of lemons. The host's reactions are also indicative of displeasure. The writing for that episode was a hatchet job. It was such a hatchet job that the horn is found off-screen and that is only mentioned in passing,,, "this lady from Cairhien...." There is so much wrong with the scripting of that finale that it's difficult to even decide where to begin complaining about it. Disposable bad guys... disappearing bad guys... random bad guys on beaches... Horn of Valere that looks like an Avon product...Plot armour on the way to and on top of the tower so that we get a Super-Friends teamwork moment... /barf Much like the S1 Finale, it needed more drafts before filming started. Everything is rushed and the end product is underwhelming.
The title of this post is all of two words long. Try reading them, paying special attention to the second one.
Yes I know that was my point. They stayed their opinion and did nothing wrong and I agree with that opinion though I wouldn't be quite as strong about it. The person I replied to was acting as if they stated it as a fact and they gave their opinion as asked by the post.
Sorry, that wasn't for you. I went too far before I hit reply...
[удалено]
[удалено]
>Reddit haters always have this weird tendency to pretend that their opinions are objective fact, and to resort to over-the-top criticism (e.g. a TV show is never "somewhat disappointing" but always "exceptionally bad" or "garbage"). Yeah this is a huge issue that I have with a lot of show haters. They don't seem to understand that there is a middle ground. You can say it does good things while still criticizing it. A lot of the Whitecloaks see that the show deviates from the book and go "This is the worst thing ever", when things are more complex than that. You can dislike the changes from the books but that doesn't make it BAD! They feel like they think they have an obligation to call the show shit and not give it credit for anything, and it's so fucking annoying
FWIW, I was defending the show during S2 right up until episodes 7 and 8. Then, I concluded that the show runners are just bad at finales. The finale for s2 was exceptionally bad even if shown in a vacuum without having read the books. It was terrible NCIS quality action TV.
Trivia? The magic system is completely different my guy. There is no returning people from the dead in the books. Linking prevents people from severing themselves or dying.
That is your opinion. None of it is factual.
IMDB and the show are owned by the same company FYI.
That score is based on less than 5k reviews lol
So what? That's a pretty decent number of votes for a TV episode on IMDB. (E.g. the finale of Reacher S2 - Amazon's most watched show AFAIK - has 4500 votes.)
It's half the number of people who reviewed season 1, so...I guess losing half your audience means more than mostly positive reviews on IMDB.
Point is one website-with 4.8k reviews- isn’t “most people” by any stretch of the imagination.
Given that haters tend to be *more* motivated to vote on sites like RT/IMDB than normal people (see the current review bombing of *The Acolyte* by angry Star Wars "fans"), scores on those sites are probably *lower* than what the general public thinks.
Nah, it’s 4.8k reviews on a single site. There are other sites that differ, and sites without reviews that have negative discussion. Regardless, my entire point is you can’t present just IMDB as the general public’s view. Also, yeah the Acolyte was pretty rough so it deserves some bad reviews.
What sites are you referring to?
The show, season 1 at least, was an incredible disappointment for me. I really wanted a more faithful adaption. The casting looked solid if a bit of a departure but I think it was understandable trying to make it more appealing to current trends, and they all did look like they captured the characters personalities well. But so much of the show so severely departed from the books that it was hardly recognizable as the same story even if set in the same world. Iirc they addressed this saying it's not the same story but a different turning of the wheel . Which is fine and I'm happy for those to whom it appealed but I really wanted to see the story I read brought to screen as it was told not another version of events. I'm seeing people say season 2 pulled more to the course so maybe I'll check it out eventually but so far as I've seen it's a disappointment for me personally
It didn't. It looked like it might get on track about halfway through, but by the end, no. No it's not even the same story anymore. The lore has been gutted to the bone, as has the theme and core plot points.
That's disappointing. Honestly. If they just like end it. Kill rand the dark one wins and then like zoom out and back into Edmonds field at the start and restart I'd be psyched. Like I'm sure they won't but it could fit with later the story rand saw many turnings where he failed. Wishful thinking to hope they'd nuke it and restart, keep the cast but just go hard faithful to the text. Maybe in another few decades they'll try again and stay to source
Honestly I have a hard time seeing them pulling off the Last Battle in live action. An animated series really is the way to go. Something like Castlevania but with more episodes and braid tugging.
Idk I think like.... production value really comes into question. Like cg sure but I'd rather see practical but then cost would be huge. An anime release of faithful to source would be dope af.
A faithful anime version would be longer than the series "Lone Wolf and Cub".
Idk if that's supposed to be an issue but if that's long like...oh noooo more content nooooo
Definitely some things to enjoy as a book reader but I think it's fair to say it's disappointing. However we are definitely not getting another WoT show so I just find enjoyment where I can with it. Personally I think the settings/costume or whatever that department really nailed it on most everything and that's been cool to see in the show. I know there are some passionate book readers in that department doing the Lord's work but cannot say the same for the writing lol
The two seasons of the show are why I picked up each and every audiobook and listened to each and everyone of them through the slow parts, the boring parts and the exciting and thrilling parts. Given the complexity of the books, I don't they could ever do the books fairly because of the depth of story that would require. So the show must be a watered down version that must have fewer characters and fewer plot lines. To keep all the reductions together and make sense, the writers need to plan for the future and map it out as best they can for the current season and all the future seasons that have not been approved yet and may not get paid for. So, I like the show for what it is, and remember the books will always be more satisfying.
S2 was looking promising but then it shat the bed by the end (again). I could see how people unfamiliar with the books to think it was good but to most readers it was insulting.
Season 1 was a bad adaptation and a bad fantasy show. Season 2 was a slightly less bad adaptation (they brought some stuff back closer to the books) but a decent fantasy show.
IMO season 2 strayed further from the books and that's the reason it was able to be better. Season 1 was just close enough to the books that all of the tons of changes they made were very obvious and glaring. Season 2 was further away from the books so the changes didn't stand out as much and it was easier to just enjoy the show for what it is rather than having to fight off constant comparisons.
Agreed it started further due to where S1 took it. I felt like S2 got back closer to what the books would be and it felt like some of the plot stuff was being…repaired for lack of a better word.
The show made it so that the Dragon Reborn could be female just as well as male. That completely undercuts a major plot point, and a major point about the setting. With a woman Dragon Reborn, there’s no reason for fear. There’s other details - the changes to Matt and Perrin, the ludicrous ceremony for the Womens Circle, Emonds Field as a cosmopolitan trade hub - but that, to me, was the major failure in understanding the source material.
That sounds like it was a major sticking point for me, I remember in S01 they did have some mystery as to wether Egwene was the Dragon, IIRC. Kinda confused me over the whole male and female sides to the one power with the male side of it being tainted and dangerous. I understand the show made it clear that it was Rand but certainly at the time, the showrunner sounded like he was trying to fuck with central things in the series that is tied to gender.
No he wasn’t. He just made it so people didn’t fully trust the pronouns written down thousands of years ago so morraine was staying open minded just in case. Yessss the downvotes from this toxic as fuck subreddit lol never fails. Y’all hate reality
I don't think it's necessarily a change they made. The show made it so Moiraine doesn't know if the Dragon Reborn is male or female. And that's something I think they should've explored more to show what the implications of a male vs female Dragon Reborn were as that theoretically would've undercut that central tension. But Moiraine not knowing that and it ends up being the Dragon is Rand isn't really a major change that undercuts all that much.
If it’s possible that Moirane isn’t sure whether the Dragon is male or female, then the setting makes no sense. When it’s not certain that the Dragon will use the tainted half of the Power, then it’s not certain that the Dragon will bring apocalyptic destruction; it’s no longer clear that the male Dragon will clash with the mostly women-ruled society; and the people who swear to the Dragon are much less creepy wackos. The Dragon being male is crucial - it’s one of the ways that his coming will upend society. That the show doesn’t understand this means they haven’t understood the basic premise of the books. That’s like a Dune movie where Arrakis isn’t a desert.
The prophecies about the Dragon are still there even if Moiraine isn't sure whether the Dragon is male or female. Assuming they keep those remotely similar to how they were in the books, those all point to apocalyptic destruction. And in the books men going bad is a huge concern, that turns out to not at all be why any of those prophecies turn out the way they do. There is destruction at the coming of the dragon, and it's a problem that he's going mad until it's dealt with, but a lot of the world shaking events and the destruction of cities and mass death associated with the Last Battle and everything leading up aren't from Rand or any male channeler madness. It is a change, and I don't think it was necessary, or done well if they were going to make the change. But with the prophecies all saying things like, >The [Dragon](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon) shall be Reborn, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the [Last Battle](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Last_Battle), and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation. Even if you switch all the he's to they so that Moiraine wouldn't have known if it was going to be a boy or girl, you still have a lot of bad things to fear in the Dragon's coming. That would still have the same ramifications for the world of the book and the fear they'd have of the Dragon. And there's still a 50/50 shot it's going to be a man so all that reason to fear him is still there. A cointoss at that fate is not great odds.
There‘s absolutely no reason to change this detail. The change adds nothing (except consternation with those who have read the books). Unless they wanted to make the girls more important, which again, demonstrates a massive cluelessness about the books.
I don't disagree with you there at all. As I said I don't think it was a necessary change. And I think even if you were going to make this change, the only reason I can think of to do it would be to use that to explain why everyone should really hope for a female dragon not a male one and to explain the madness of male channelers. But they didn't do that at all. So it's just a weird mystery that didn't go anywhere. But I think as changes go, this one doesn't necessarily change much going forward or have huge implications. It's just Moiraine thought something and was wrong. And if they show the prophecies they should probably swap the he's to they's to be consistent but idk if they will.
>If it’s possible that Moirane isn’t sure whether the Dragon is male or female, then the setting makes no sense. The **only** thing changed was Moiraine (and to a lesser extent Suian) saying that they were not prepared to put 100% of their trust in the prophecies, and run the risk of defaulting a loss to the Dark One if they were wrong by doing so and buying into the wrong interpretation. She was hedging her bets. Which, of course, is all the excuse some people need.
No they didn’t
A compelling argument. I stand refuted.
There’s no argument needed lol you simply are wrong. The show made it so morraine wasn’t confident in the pronouns is all. But I see others have already told that to you so I guess now you’re just what? Willfully ignorant ?
> With a woman Dragon Reborn, there’s no reason for fear. Except that it turns out that the Dragon *isn't* a woman, so this is irrelevant. I never get why people think that this is somehow a major change.
Because it’s important that the Dragon has to be male - that’s a huge part of the gender dynamic in the setting. WoT has a female dominated society, and a large reason for that is that the last Dragon (a guy) broke the world, and that the next Dragon (again, male) will shatter the world again. Of course, the show totally missed this part.
> Because it’s important that the Dragon has to be male Which he is, in the TV show, so this entire point is irrelevant.
It is vital to the entire conceit of the show!
It’s a huge difference whether the dragon could be male or female, and turns out to be male; or whether it has been clear for literally thousands of years that the next guy who’s going to shatter the world will be a man again, just like last time, good thing we have a queen.
Save up for one month, watch it, and hazbin hotel, and the new Vox machina and rings of power, etc.
It didn’t really get better. Not that it’s really bad. But they did a number of characters really dirty - namely Mat, Rand, and Min. Also, Egwene is a Mary Sue now - deal with it. And just like season 1, and particularly in the season 2 finale, the show casually breaks its own rules for no apparent reason. The show runner just doesn’t seem to care much about logic and internal consistency (must be too boring). So it’s got plenty of Star Wars “Holdo hyperdrive” moments. Aside from that, as I said, it’s fine. It’s got good elements as well.
It's just another mediocre at best book series adaptation in a very long line of them.
Season 2 was better than Season 1 but that is not saying much. Season 2 had similar plot points for several characters but It strayed more from the books than Season 1 imo. My biggest problem is that the new stuff they made up is boring or things they had to change just don't add anything. Also they lack a lot of execution of ideas. They think of a cool concept or they they want to recreate something from the book but the way they do it looks cheap and off a CW show. They written themselves into corners and I don't know how they are going to move forward. There are things to like in the Season like Egwene overall minus freeing herself and fighting Ishamael, Nynaeve and the tests, Lanfear and Ishamael. Also Elayne was wonderful and she and Rand had a meet cute moment in the end. It is kinda funny to me that Rand in the show is more of a ladies man than in the books. Watch the show if you want but I would give it until episode 4 cause the first 3 were boring af
Long time fan of the books, big fan of the show. Last 5 mins of each season has been a low point XD
Imo Season 2 is a step in the right direction. They changed A LOT of things from the books, but I personally liked most of the changes and I think they covered the overall plot of book 2 nicely. My main issue is with the season finale where they just seem to be making too many unnecessaey changes. The show is very hit and miss though, either it clicks with you and you enjoy it or you get turned off it a lot. Compared to Season 1 though I'd say Season 2 was definitely better.
The single change to the S2 finale that I dislike the most is Egwene getting out of the a’dam by herself. One of the themes of WoT is that you can’t do everything by yourself and needing help isn’t weakness. So Egwene gets help from Min, Nynaeve, and Elayne to escape her seemingly hopeless situation in the book. In the show? Well we can’t have our Strong Female Character getting rescued by other people, so Egwene has to save herself. A knock-on effect of this change is that all of a sudden Nynaeve and Elayne have nothing to do in the finale and the writers didn’t bother to give them anything new.
I was so excited to see Rand fight Ishamael in the clouds above Falme while Mat and Perrin charge with the heroes, and we didn't get that. To me it would be like making the Dune movies and then not having Paul ride a sandworm into battle. Why change these moments that people have been waiting literal decades for? Now that Mat is a hero of the horn, him beating Gawyn and Galad would mean nothing, if it ever happens. Just frustrating changes to me.
>I was so excited to see Rand fight Ishamael in the clouds above Falme while Mat and Perrin charge with the heroes, and we didn't get that. Not only did we not get that, we didn't get Rand fighting Ishamael at all. He needed the help of all of his friends to beat him. He's supposed to be the freaking Dragon Reborn and yet the writers refuse to give him a moment where he can show that by himself. And that's the second finale in a row!
That's a shame. The finish up to the Great Hunt and that scene you describe is one moment (in anticipating the show) that I'd hope they would do well, it was such a good ending to that book. Same with Dumai's Wells and some other bits, though I know the show isn't nearly that far along yet
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit. It's painfully mediocre, in my humble opinion. It's particularly jarring to see Dune, a book people didn't dare touch to make an adaptation, actually receive an insanely good one while WoT suffered from being highjacked by idiots who believe they can write a better story than RJ.
Some people like it, some people don't. Many geeks have strong opinions.
The season finales for 1 and 2 have both been terrible. You can kinda give the first season a pass but there’s no excuses for the second.
Season 2 was a huge upgrade over season 1, and I think the show is heading in the right direction. They change a lot, especially in season 2, but nothing hugely important and the story still gets to where in needs to. I'm excited to see how season 3 plays out.
Same! Going into season 2, I thought there was almost no way they could salvage the show but I think they did a great job with what they were left with, with some issues of course. I was genuinely shocked at the promise that season 2 showed and I'm really excited for season 3.
The show should be called “The Wheel of Time: The Magic of Friendship”. It abandons the central Chosen One narrative of the books in favor of an ensemble cast where everyone has an equal part to play. This isn’t necessarily a good or bad thing. TV is a different medium and choices need to be made in turning a book into a show. There are legitimate reasons why a TV might need to move away from the core narrative structure of books, not the least because so much of the conflict in the books is the dramatic irony different characters having different information/assumptions and making “wrong” choices. That’s not going to be an easy adaptation. So change is inevitable and not necessarily positive or negative. My issue with the show is that they can’t seem to decide what they want to be. It’s pretty clear there is some kind of committee meddling with the story, because while individual episodes make sense the episodes themselves don’t link together in a coherent way. Rules that are a big deal in one episode are ignored in others. Characters change viewpoints based on the needs of the plot. It’s kind of a mess. The show generally does a good job of presenting the world and getting you invested. Which makes it all the more frustrating when the big ideas and big characters fizzle out. It’s clear there is a good story buried somewhere in the mess. I just don’t think these writers have the skills, desires, or ability to find it. Tl;dr: the show cares more about the Rule of Cool than internal logic and consistency.
I'd hardly say that the characters are equal. The boys have been handled terribly in both seasons. Rand hasn't even been allowed to have a single moment that's entirely his own despite Egwene and Nynaeve having several. One of my biggest complaints about the show is that it hasn't given us any reason to care that Rand is the dragon or what that means for the world.
In case I wasn’t clear, I think the show has abandoned the Chosen One narrative. Rand Al’ Thor is NOT a big deal in the world of the show (IMO). So there’s a reason we’ve not been given a reason to care about him to the same degree. My money is on something like the Dragon Reborn is actually Captain Planet (by our powers combined…) as the end result. Which could actually be a good show. But it’s not the Wheel of Time. If you look at it as a Generic Fantasy Show, they’ve done some good things with what they’re trying to do. So it’s not surprising that people who have never read WOT don’t find it objectionable. I described the show’s changes to someone once as if they renamed the Harry Potter books to “The Wizarding World of Hogwarts” and removed the prophecy about Harry. Now it’s all the students fighting Voldemort because he’s evil. And that’s it.
I really liked season 2 and thought there were some damn good episodes. The recasting of Mat could have completely destroyed the show and I’m surprised more people don’t point towards that being the potential downfall. I think it was difficult for them to write around the main character’s absence in season 1 but everyone else is great in season 2. Selene is especially terrific in the show and gets more time than she does in the books which is a huge win for me.
Someone else did indeed point out how much they have fucked with the flow of things by changing the actor for Mat, and I am hoping it is resolved easily enough! I am not surprised to hear that 'Selene' is getting a lot of screen time, I have not seen who is playing her but from the description in the books of her, yeah 🤣
From what I've heard, if you don't know the books, or have lackluster feelings about them, the show is okay. If you are a big fan of the books, you will hate the show
I'm a huge fan of the books and I really liked the show. Not as much as the LoTR movies or Game of Thrones, but I was still excited to see the characters on screen.
I have read the series 5 times and I love the show. I wish we had more Rand focus sometimes but I think that will come in time. Second season is amazing
Season 2 is better, but still very bad imo. The writing is often pretty incoherent, the plot has holes. Perrin is basically walking around in a circle all season until the plot needs him to be somewhere.
It’s funny because, up until Fallout, the WoT show was Amazon’s most watched original. And yet the show is only ever a fraction as good as the books. The good parts about the show: -impeccable casting with strong performances from many of the actors. Rosamund Pike was born for this role, and Daniel Henny and Joshua Stradowski are stand outs. -Amazing production value including great sets and costumes. -Great source material. There’s a lot to pull from, and even some poorly, the first couple books are great. The bad: wasted character arcs, lack of direction with some characters, and when the show deviates from the source material- it’s noticeably bad. But above all, this is one of the few shows that actually spits in the face of book fans. They cut key moments from the books and don’t replace them with anything better. The worst of this is that The Great Hunt was adapted without “Sheathing the Sword” and out of the Rand/Lan training. And instead of the battle above Falme, they have Egwene hold her own against Ishamael. Like I get with abridging parts of the show. It seems like the show will set up Suroth and Eamon Valda sooner, that they might combine elements of book 3 and book 4 for the next season. But then there are baffling decisions like having Perrin have a dead wife? And completely cutting out Camelyn, and making Min a darkfriend at the beginning of the series? Like dear god it shouldn’t be this hard to adapt the show unless they plan on cutting 90% of the material.
Personally, I really enjoyed Season 02, especially the middle parts. Elayne & Lanfear were absolutely perfect and Egwene and Nynaeve's arcs were surprisingly emotional for me. The finale was okay-ish and significantly worse but I can live with it. Understandably, the finale is agreeably the most important episode and it sadly taints (heh) the whole season.
I agree. I'll still watch season 3 if they have one
I would say the show is exceptionally bad, both as an adaptation and as a stand alone show. The acting, writing and direction are all quite poor. The story telling isn't even really trying to tell the Wheel of Time story, and what story it is telling is muddled and poorly thought out.
I enjoyed both seasons a lot. I think most people generally agree the 2nd season was better than the first and the finales were the weaker points. If things like a woman potentially being the dragon reborn or Rand not being an immediate powerhouse bother you then the show probably isn't for you and that's ok.
The show got gutterfucked by the pandemic resurgance, the loss of an actor, and dominos from those two events causing cascade reactions as other actors had shooting schedules rearranged, the last two episodes of S1 getting large rewrites, and all of S2's original script being tossed in order to make a "bridge" season from the ending of S1 to where S3 should be starting from. It's also got a lot of hatred from the usual racist / incel / troll suspects, which drowns out actual honest criticism. I liked it. Give S2 a try.
Wait what actor did they change?
Barney Harris, the original actor for Mat, left the show before season 1 was finished due to unspecified reasons, resulting in a recasting. Dónal Finn took over the role in season 2. The last scene Mr. Harris filmed was the party about to go into the Waygate. Insert a **whole** bunch of last-minute rewrites about Mat turning his back on the party, Mat not being there when Fain took the ruby-hilted dagger and the horn, all three lads not being able to go after Fain like in the books, and Moiraine writing a letter to the *Aes Sedai* warning them that Mat had the potential to be incredibly dangerous, which lead to the season 2 rewrite that Liandrin intercepted the letter and had Mat locked away until she could figure out why he was important, before deciding he wasn't and cutting him loose after over half a year's captivity. Domino effects include "Well if Mat's split away from Rand and Perrin, we should split them up as well, have all three lads go their separate ways for a time" which is how Rand ends up bailing on the party to seek out his own fate, by working his way into contact with Logain on the hope Logain could teach him something, which means he wasn't around for Lan to teach him the forms, which means he's not a Blademaster yet, which means he pulled the Indy on Turak instead of dueling him because he doesn't have the skills yet. Lan teaching Rand got pushed off a season. One change. **Lots** of dominoes.
Well said and this is where I fall in my feelings towards the show. I grew up with the books, read tEotW when I was 11 and got teary-eyed on the final passage of AMOL at age 31. The story has made a meaningful impact on my life and mental health (positively). I enjoy the show because I get to revisit a world that I love through a new lense. I know the books like the back of my hand, so the deviations and plot twists have me jumping a bit. I rewatched S2 again recently and like it, understanding what they had to work through with Covid and Barney. They said they wanted to get to basically Book 4 by Season 3 and I think that's right where we're heading. The changes don't bother me much. They had to take a pretty big fork in the road and I can't find fault in that. RJ had plenty of inconsistencies after the first 3 books (the end of tEotW makes zero sense, and at least 4 Forsaken are completely worthless) and I am not going to throw the best chance I have at the characters I love show me the world I grew up with because Rand isn't the Man early enough or God forbid women have more agency than heaving bosoms and being insufferable nags (straight dude here).
The biggest disappointment for me is Lan. I thought of him as 7 foot giant. I think Moraine is taller than he is.
I don't think S2 was much better than S1 and had some issues of its own, it's just that there was no point in a given book reader imagining it was going to snap back and better mirror the books at that point, or suddenly be crafted by a different team, so the only thing to do was strap in and go off on this other road with them for whatever it would be worth. That said, opinions diverge widely and I wouldn't accept any given cluster of internet people's opinion on it either way rather than check it out yourself. People fangirl gush over this show and others absolutely trash it, with everything in between. People criticize it for the usual reasons someone would criticize a given show and others criticize it with what may be other agendas. And people defend it in both of those ways. It gets very emotional and internetty and tiresome. So it gets pretty tangled and it can be hard to tell what's legit and what's smokescreen. Who's right? Watch and see. If I were you, I would wait until S3 is all the way out next year and then buy Prime for one month and binge all three in sequence and then cancel Prime. $15, not a biggie. Be aware that there is also r/wotshow for all your tv adaptation discussion needs. Watch out for spoilers and heightened champion/hater warfare.
Season 2 was quite a bit better. The last episode was still a disappointment but not as much as season 1 finale was. Season 2 stayed even further from the books than season 1 but it honestly helped. Season 1 was close enough to the books that all the changes became very obvious and glaring. Since 2 strayed a bit further it became easier to separate the two in my mind so I could just enjoy the show for what it is rather than constantly being upset by the changes. I have faith that season 3 will be even better. They're getting into some of the best parts from the books now and it's going to make for some great moments. The show is finally going to be able to fully dive into what makes Wheel of Time great instead of being stuck in the awkward opening parts where the world hasn't quite settled into place yet. But I really don't have faith the series will ever be completed. They are taking far too long in between seasons and that is going to cause more and more problems that continue to pile up. It's just not going to happen IMO.
As soon as they announced it I knew it could not my faithful imo it is a show that's impossible to shoot. It didn't bother me that it was different than the books. It was ordinary around 2/5 for the first season and 3/5 for the second. I'll always watch it because it's WoT. But it's behind shows like Witcher. It's closer to Xena than it is GoT.
There is stuff to like about the shows. Covid kinda fucked them on production of season one so they had to alter the finale significantly. I think they were just smoking crack when they wrote the season 2 finale. Tbh I liked the rest of the season minus a few plot points
It’s a different turning of the wheel. Different story and vibe from the books. Season 1 was awful but my friends said Season 2 was better. I’ll get around to it at some point, but there is way more stuff in the queue.
I like the show as its own entity. I just forget about the books and watch to entertain myself. I definitely think some of the decisions they’ve made regarding the show are absurd but I have to remind myself to separate book from show.
I love the show, but I would much rather read the books. I don't have a problem with adaptations, even ones that deviate from the source material, but I set a pretty low bar for TV as a medium and am used to watching many wildly different adaptations of plays. It's possible to look at it as another Turning of the Wheel or Mirror World, and they have deliberately leant into that in order to fit the enormity of WoT into a TV format. Many people, however, want to see what's in the books with as little deviation and addition as possible. Outside of the fandom, it's doing pretty well, but you know what type of fan you are. If all else fails, start rereading the books or listening to the audiobooks. At least you know where you are.
S2 has generally been better received than S1, e.g. it has a 86% critic score and 81% audience score on RT (up from 81% and 60% for S1). However... > I remember having issue with them having seemingly changed something very fundamental about the channeling or maybe something related. If you get upset about that kind of thing, then the show is not for you. (Especially since the only change to channeling I remember from the S1 finale is about burning out/dying when linked, but that's hardly fundamental.)
Both seasons are a good story. However, neither season really follows the WOT books. They are honestly a spinoff story in my opinion. Maybe an alternate time line that ends up in about the same place at the end but they got there in a very different way. I think the writers of the series basically read the cliff notes and made up their own story. Having said that I will watch all the seasons as they release, because I love the characters and enjoy seeing them brought to life, even if it was done wrong. Spoilers below. Season 1 issues... They are all already adults Perrin is married and kills his wife in a murderous rage. Perrin is also in love with Egwene and jealous of Rand. The year long journey to Camlyn is skipped and replaced with a couple day long journey to the white tower. Perrin never meets his Elias he just suddenly has yellow eyes and knows wolves. Matt doesn't lose a year of memories due to the cursed blade, and never meets Mordith. Logain is skipped over and replaced by Mazrim Taim who is gentled mid season. Rand knows he's the Dragon Reborn, goes to the eye of the world with just Morain and after beating the dark one he asks Morain to tell everyone he died so he leaves for Cairhein. Morain and the Amerlyn are still involved in a big hidden lesbian relationship. Lan never teaches any of the boys to fight, which is a huge oversight and problematic to the end of the 2nd season. How's Rand supposed to beat a Seanchan blade master or ishamael if he hadn't trained for two hours every night for the better part of a year on his way to Caemlyn and then for another year while searching for the horn? He can't. Which leads to the massive issues with season 2. Season 2 issues... It is entirely a different story The Aeilman Perrin frees from the cage is Avienda which also starts a weird relationship between them. Rand faked his death so he can't go with Perrin and Matt to hunt the horn. Rand is hanging out in Cairhein banging "Selene" every night for the entire season, as he tries to get to Taim who is held in a loony bin in Cairhein to ask questions about chaneling. Taim is nuts. When Morain sees Selene she immediately knows it is Lanfear and suits her throat while she and Rand are having Sex and Rand just accepts the truth. No questions asked. Lanfear is not nearly beautiful enough. None of the character growth that came from being stuck in the alternate reality via the traveling stone happens. Uno is killed by the Seanchan, brutally I might add. So no prophet for you. Paden Fain just gives the knife back to Matt, which Matt uses to make a deadly Ashendarii the kills at the smallest touch. The Amerlyn tries to capture Rand. When Matt blows the horn he suddenly remembers he's a hero too, and he has all his previous memories. (This one pissed me off a lot, it was very sloppy writing, and felt unispired. Plus Matt's not a hero of the horn.) Rand doesn't know how to use his sword so he just kills the blade master with the power immediately. Rand doesn't know how to fight or use the one power so Egwene is the one that kills Ishamael, NOT Rand Althor the Dragon Reborn. Rand doesn't know how to fight or use the one power so there is no epic battle waged in the sky above Falme, which is a important prophesy of the dragon. So instead Morain makes a fire Dragon appear in the sky above Falme. So prophesy bullet dodged in the absolute laziest way possible.
As soon as I realized: 1. A show that does the books justice is not possible unless it's a animated show that's 30 episodes for each of the 14 seasons. But live action? No way that was going to happen. 2. It's a show based on the characters and events of the books - and that's all. Characters, reaching events, and everything else is up for adaptation. 3. It needs immense adaptation to fit a TV audience. I ended up really liking it. And if it's the closest thing I'll get to live action, then I'm happy with it.
1)I do agree that it should've been animated but that's moreso because time passes in the real world. Let's say the show doesn't get cancelled the cast is gonna be 10 years older at least which really offsets the whole the world could end tomorrow thing the books have. Tho 30 episodes is a bit excessive cuz most of the length of the books come from world building which can be done on literal seconds on screen 2) true but it should also have matching tone 3) no it doesn't, it needs some condensing. But with the amount of details in the books it is exceptionally easy to go "this scene is supposed to look exactly like this" the hard parts are internal monologue of Perrin and Rands/lews therrin talking to each other