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##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS.
If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**.
**WARNING:** We determine spoiler policy based on publication order. New Spring was published after Crossroads of Twilight, so this post can include spoilers up to the book. If the creator of this post has indicated that they've read New Spring out of order, respect their spoiler level and use spoiler tags when appropriate.
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Which doesn't matter, because there is only one region where Dark One's creatures can be constantly found: Borderlands. And most Greens aren't there, they are in the rest of the world doing... something. And when Dark One's creatures show up in another regions, then it's up to Aes Sedai of any Ajah in the closest proximity to stop them.
I kinda wonder if the greens were written as a critique of US imperialism. Instead of the fighting force being concentrated along the Blight where there is a real tangible threat they’re just kinda all over the place. The individual greens seem more interested in increasing their own influence and the White Towers influence than actually defending anything.
We hear from a couple of darkfriends who had sworn to the Dark One, not expecting that anything would actually happen, and then being absolutely horrified that it was the end times and they'd be expected to actually *do* shit.
I can only assume that goes for the Green Ajah too; signing up for the army right before war were declared.
And they are utterly worthless at it. Greene should be embedded in the borderlands armies, and their battle plans should revolve around having artillery (Aes Sedai). But nope.
They call themselves the Battle Ajah for nothing.
The green Aja isn’t limited by the oaths in preforming their duty of facing shadowspawn. They do suck tho considering the majority of them (like the rest of the Aja’s) are borderline recluses living in the tower apart from the world. Mainly due to Ishamael’s influence and the self destructive pride the Aes-sedai developed as a whole. Why aren’t there groups of green sisters in the borderlands making a habit of blasting Trolocs back to the shadow? “Battle Aja” BAH
Individual Sisters do that sometimes. We know that Cadsuane has done that, for instance, which is probably one reason she’s competent in a fight. But most don’t, and it really should’ve been mandatory for Greens.
Are there? I’ve been relistening to the audiobooks and as of Lord of Chaos there’s no mention of them. In eye of the world Agalmar is super hyped just one sister showed up so it seems like they are a rarity
When the Borderlanders march south in Path of Daggers there are at least 13 Aes Sedai with them. Likely the sisters who were advisors at Borderland courts or lived near the Blight. We really never learn anything about them though.
13 doesn't sound like much in the scheme of 4 countries but it also feels like a number chosen to intimidate a male channeler.
It is probably a few aes sedai advisors and those living in the area.
It's not stated that they are mainly green.
The entire Ajah system is incredibly flawed from the outset. You take extremely impressionable young women who've just endured years of nightmare condition and training, and then select for them the segment of society they are going to be working in and obeying for the next several hundred years.
The purview of the Ajah's are incredibly narrow and crossing out of one is so heavily discouraged that it's amazing the Ajah's get any work done at all. This, IMO, is the major reason that the Aes Sedai are so incredibly inept at getting anything done, as it takes multiple specialties to achieve anything.
The Ajah system makes total sense, our entire world is built on people specialising in a particular skill or area.
Especially once you get into the fact that certain Aes Sedai have particular talents for certain things but not others.
If there was a group of people with a superhuman ability to heal people, would you not expect them to be part of some special organisation of healers and focus only on that?
Specialization is fine. Being unable to leave the specialization is the issue. A huge amount of our society, technology and just the world in general is built by cross pollination of expertise.
But there are very few who can actually move into different specalizations eaily.
Now this isn't as large of an issue when you consider how long Aes Sedai can live which means more time to train in a new specalization, but it's a standard.
The cords pollination of expertise in this world is moslt done but groups of specialists fo different fields working together, not by a singular individuals with multiple specalizations.
It's odd how in WOT the Aes Sedai generally don't deviate from the stereotypes of their ajahs. Almost all browns are absent professor types, the whites are always cold and logical, etc. And they don't have much individuality beyond their Ajah stereotypes unless they're a major character.
Well the Green Ajah is on of the ones we're specialization makes a bit more sense, they should be the equivalent of joining the army and then spending your time mostly on the Borderlands blasting trollocs.
I agree in general, although it doesn’t seem like deviating from the main Ajah purpose is discouraged. Pevara hunted darkfriends as a Red and was apparently very successful at it, Anaiya seemed almost Brown and was known for her expertise in arcane knowledge, we’ve seen several non-Grays serve as royal advisors …
And yet they still offer more career choices than the Wise Ones or Windfinders do, where your only options are respectively to be a political mediator or a weather worker. There are no Wise One/Windfinder historians, scientists, warriors, etc.
The Reds and Grays are far and above the most successful ajahs in meeting their purpose out in the world. The rest of the ajahs either don’t meet their purpose (greens), do so in the tower and thus limit effectiveness (whites, browns, yellows), or they’re blue and their whole thing is being independent as they make a change
I think the ajah system being flawed is what pulls you into the world.
It puts into the mindset of the aes sedai, and you start thinking what they should be doing.
I dunno, a world can have a shitty system. Ours has tons of it. Doesn't mean changing it is easy.
The dark ones influence on the tower is also notable.
This was Ishamael's plan from start to finish. In the Age of Legends, you had an organisation of channellers unified under the leadership of LTT (though there are many micro issues around that), so in the next confrontation, you work to ensure that doesn't happen. Half the job is already done due to the taint. You enact a plan you know will cut the life spans of channellers in half (three oaths), ensuring that continuity of knowledge is lost. You set your agents (black ajah) to work to ensure that the politicking of aes sedai is embedded down to their bones so that information/knowledge/skills are kept hidden in the ajahs and then lost due to age/murder/lack of Talents. Above all, you breed such arrogance into generation after generation of women that the vast majority of them look down on the very people they purport to serve. Immortality lets you play the longest of games, even if you're hopelessly insane when the end moves arrive.
I think the Greens fail because they so rarely do real combat or realistic training.
My impression is they are like people who buy expensive combat gear and wear camo, but who have no idea what a flanking maneuver is.
I am pretty sure Elayne is the only Green for whom we know for sure that she had received an extensive training in military strategy and tactics. And she got it outside of the Tower as part of her training as Daughter-Heir.
I think the Green Ajah gets a bit of a bad rap in the fandom. It shouldn't be surprising that their skills lag behind their reputation...that reputation was earned in hundreds of years of fighting in the Trollocs Wars. The Greens of the books have lived in times of relative peace. Prior to the events of the series I don't think Trollocs were coming in force anywhere besides the Gap (the Greens' lack of presence there is baffling in tEotW and it's more than fair to criticize that), it was raiding parties over an extremely long Blight border. Without Travelling I don't know that they'd be all that effective patrolling, it's not like there are thousands of Aes Sedai. Nonetheless, even Mat was basically complimentary of Joline's knowledge of war in KoD, he just was better and wasn't going to listen to her anyway.
The Oaths were put in place sometime around the Trolloc Wars, so roughly 2000 years before our story happens. We don’t have a firm date on the Ajah system, but it was likely before then. Were told that the original meaning of Ajah was of small temporary groups that banded together for a specific goal. Post-Breaking, these groups gradually became more permanent.
It’s never expressly stated, but the Black Ajah most likely originated during one of the periods where Ishamael was free. So that’s either the Trolloc Wars or Hawkwing’s time. Depending on which period you like for the start, the Oaths could have been a Black Ajah ploy from the beginning.
In either case, the goal of the Black Ajah was to limit the White Tower’s effectiveness. The reason all the modern Ajah’s suck is that the Tower has been destroyed from the inside.
The green Ajah’s job is to fight against shadowspawn dreadlord. The 3 oaths do not hinder them from doing that.
The green Ajah should all be posted in the borderlands fighting trollocs and pushing the blight back. Which would help them practice for the last battle.
The Green Ajah was neutered when the Ways went dark.
Before then, they could travel the length of the Blight and deploy in about a day.
Post darkening, they'd have to set up all along the blight and there just aren't enough aes sedai to do that.
Yeah, the Green Ajah pretended to be a "battle Ajah" when it was really an Ajah about having sex with their warders.
Only after Brandon Sanderson took over did they start doing anything useful.
I think the biggest problem that the aes sedai have is that they spend their time training to be Aes Sedai and then graduate and are given a noble's estate income just for existing.
You need a worker class who actually do work for the tower rather than everyone flitting off on their own desires.
Ishmael did a pretty remarkable job of hamstringing the white tower in the lead up to the final days before the last battle. Considering its potential, the organization as a whole is pretty pathetic, and more often than not the best deeds done were by remarkable, individual sisters like Cadsuane and Moiraine. (Massive spoiler if you haven’t finished the Gathering Storm) >!The fact that fully *one in five* living sisters are of the Black ajah by the time the world starts tumbling towards Tarmon Gaidon shows the extent of the failure of the Aes sedai as an organization. If not for Egwene and Verin, the Aes Sedai would have been puppets for the shadow even during the last battle!<
The Oaths were put in place to assuage the populace's fears about Aes Sedai trying to conquer and rule them, which were quite high, especially right after the Breaking. The Oath against making weapons was the first one administered, right around this time.
The Green Ajah can be criticized for not doing a proper job of fighting along the Blight Border and such, but I highly doubt that the Oaths were put in place to neutralize them.
Look. The ajahs are plot devices, nothing more. Each one does their thing, and apparently only that thing.
By the book, every member of the Green Ajah, also known as the Battle Ajah, should be at the Blight. Everyone of them.
But, they aren't.
#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *New Spring*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. **WARNING:** We determine spoiler policy based on publication order. New Spring was published after Crossroads of Twilight, so this post can include spoilers up to the book. If the creator of this post has indicated that they've read New Spring out of order, respect their spoiler level and use spoiler tags when appropriate. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
their job isnt fighting in conflicts between nations of men but fighting against the dark one
Which doesn't matter, because there is only one region where Dark One's creatures can be constantly found: Borderlands. And most Greens aren't there, they are in the rest of the world doing... something. And when Dark One's creatures show up in another regions, then it's up to Aes Sedai of any Ajah in the closest proximity to stop them.
I kinda wonder if the greens were written as a critique of US imperialism. Instead of the fighting force being concentrated along the Blight where there is a real tangible threat they’re just kinda all over the place. The individual greens seem more interested in increasing their own influence and the White Towers influence than actually defending anything.
We hear from a couple of darkfriends who had sworn to the Dark One, not expecting that anything would actually happen, and then being absolutely horrified that it was the end times and they'd be expected to actually *do* shit. I can only assume that goes for the Green Ajah too; signing up for the army right before war were declared.
There's no obligation. Unless of course, war were declared. *alarm sounds* What's that? War were declared.
And they are utterly worthless at it. Greene should be embedded in the borderlands armies, and their battle plans should revolve around having artillery (Aes Sedai). But nope. They call themselves the Battle Ajah for nothing.
The Slacker Ajah
Yup. But it’s not like they are alone in that. Yellows should have a hospital network set up around the world… but nope.
The Horny Ajah
They just exist to fuck and bond multiple men.
The green Aja isn’t limited by the oaths in preforming their duty of facing shadowspawn. They do suck tho considering the majority of them (like the rest of the Aja’s) are borderline recluses living in the tower apart from the world. Mainly due to Ishamael’s influence and the self destructive pride the Aes-sedai developed as a whole. Why aren’t there groups of green sisters in the borderlands making a habit of blasting Trolocs back to the shadow? “Battle Aja” BAH
there are groups in borderlands, helping borderlandets
Individual Sisters do that sometimes. We know that Cadsuane has done that, for instance, which is probably one reason she’s competent in a fight. But most don’t, and it really should’ve been mandatory for Greens.
And even when they do show up, there's no guarantee they'll cooperate with the local military command or obey their orders.
Are there? I’ve been relistening to the audiobooks and as of Lord of Chaos there’s no mention of them. In eye of the world Agalmar is super hyped just one sister showed up so it seems like they are a rarity
When the Borderlanders march south in Path of Daggers there are at least 13 Aes Sedai with them. Likely the sisters who were advisors at Borderland courts or lived near the Blight. We really never learn anything about them though.
13 doesn't sound like much in the scheme of 4 countries but it also feels like a number chosen to intimidate a male channeler. It is probably a few aes sedai advisors and those living in the area. It's not stated that they are mainly green.
The green seems more like the polyamory or orgy ajah rather than the battle ajah to me.
Just fighting with different swords is all
The entire Ajah system is incredibly flawed from the outset. You take extremely impressionable young women who've just endured years of nightmare condition and training, and then select for them the segment of society they are going to be working in and obeying for the next several hundred years. The purview of the Ajah's are incredibly narrow and crossing out of one is so heavily discouraged that it's amazing the Ajah's get any work done at all. This, IMO, is the major reason that the Aes Sedai are so incredibly inept at getting anything done, as it takes multiple specialties to achieve anything.
The Ajah system makes total sense, our entire world is built on people specialising in a particular skill or area. Especially once you get into the fact that certain Aes Sedai have particular talents for certain things but not others. If there was a group of people with a superhuman ability to heal people, would you not expect them to be part of some special organisation of healers and focus only on that?
Specialization is fine. Being unable to leave the specialization is the issue. A huge amount of our society, technology and just the world in general is built by cross pollination of expertise.
But there are very few who can actually move into different specalizations eaily. Now this isn't as large of an issue when you consider how long Aes Sedai can live which means more time to train in a new specalization, but it's a standard. The cords pollination of expertise in this world is moslt done but groups of specialists fo different fields working together, not by a singular individuals with multiple specalizations.
It's odd how in WOT the Aes Sedai generally don't deviate from the stereotypes of their ajahs. Almost all browns are absent professor types, the whites are always cold and logical, etc. And they don't have much individuality beyond their Ajah stereotypes unless they're a major character.
Well the Green Ajah is on of the ones we're specialization makes a bit more sense, they should be the equivalent of joining the army and then spending your time mostly on the Borderlands blasting trollocs.
I agree in general, although it doesn’t seem like deviating from the main Ajah purpose is discouraged. Pevara hunted darkfriends as a Red and was apparently very successful at it, Anaiya seemed almost Brown and was known for her expertise in arcane knowledge, we’ve seen several non-Grays serve as royal advisors …
And yet they still offer more career choices than the Wise Ones or Windfinders do, where your only options are respectively to be a political mediator or a weather worker. There are no Wise One/Windfinder historians, scientists, warriors, etc.
That we know of.
And the ajahs have secret weaves that they don't share with the rest of the Tower. I do think the reds are actually good at their job though.
The Reds and Grays are far and above the most successful ajahs in meeting their purpose out in the world. The rest of the ajahs either don’t meet their purpose (greens), do so in the tower and thus limit effectiveness (whites, browns, yellows), or they’re blue and their whole thing is being independent as they make a change
I think the ajah system being flawed is what pulls you into the world. It puts into the mindset of the aes sedai, and you start thinking what they should be doing. I dunno, a world can have a shitty system. Ours has tons of it. Doesn't mean changing it is easy. The dark ones influence on the tower is also notable.
This was Ishamael's plan from start to finish. In the Age of Legends, you had an organisation of channellers unified under the leadership of LTT (though there are many micro issues around that), so in the next confrontation, you work to ensure that doesn't happen. Half the job is already done due to the taint. You enact a plan you know will cut the life spans of channellers in half (three oaths), ensuring that continuity of knowledge is lost. You set your agents (black ajah) to work to ensure that the politicking of aes sedai is embedded down to their bones so that information/knowledge/skills are kept hidden in the ajahs and then lost due to age/murder/lack of Talents. Above all, you breed such arrogance into generation after generation of women that the vast majority of them look down on the very people they purport to serve. Immortality lets you play the longest of games, even if you're hopelessly insane when the end moves arrive.
I think the Greens fail because they so rarely do real combat or realistic training. My impression is they are like people who buy expensive combat gear and wear camo, but who have no idea what a flanking maneuver is.
I am pretty sure Elayne is the only Green for whom we know for sure that she had received an extensive training in military strategy and tactics. And she got it outside of the Tower as part of her training as Daughter-Heir.
I think the Green Ajah gets a bit of a bad rap in the fandom. It shouldn't be surprising that their skills lag behind their reputation...that reputation was earned in hundreds of years of fighting in the Trollocs Wars. The Greens of the books have lived in times of relative peace. Prior to the events of the series I don't think Trollocs were coming in force anywhere besides the Gap (the Greens' lack of presence there is baffling in tEotW and it's more than fair to criticize that), it was raiding parties over an extremely long Blight border. Without Travelling I don't know that they'd be all that effective patrolling, it's not like there are thousands of Aes Sedai. Nonetheless, even Mat was basically complimentary of Joline's knowledge of war in KoD, he just was better and wasn't going to listen to her anyway.
Almost all the AS are pretty useless.
It’s so funny how Moiraine got a reputation as a slacker and a drifter for doing what all of them should be doing in the first place.
The Oaths were put in place sometime around the Trolloc Wars, so roughly 2000 years before our story happens. We don’t have a firm date on the Ajah system, but it was likely before then. Were told that the original meaning of Ajah was of small temporary groups that banded together for a specific goal. Post-Breaking, these groups gradually became more permanent. It’s never expressly stated, but the Black Ajah most likely originated during one of the periods where Ishamael was free. So that’s either the Trolloc Wars or Hawkwing’s time. Depending on which period you like for the start, the Oaths could have been a Black Ajah ploy from the beginning. In either case, the goal of the Black Ajah was to limit the White Tower’s effectiveness. The reason all the modern Ajah’s suck is that the Tower has been destroyed from the inside.
The green Ajah’s job is to fight against shadowspawn dreadlord. The 3 oaths do not hinder them from doing that. The green Ajah should all be posted in the borderlands fighting trollocs and pushing the blight back. Which would help them practice for the last battle.
Hell yeah they suck. The dark one’s own luck to be a green’s warder.
The Green Ajah was neutered when the Ways went dark. Before then, they could travel the length of the Blight and deploy in about a day. Post darkening, they'd have to set up all along the blight and there just aren't enough aes sedai to do that.
Yeah, the Green Ajah pretended to be a "battle Ajah" when it was really an Ajah about having sex with their warders. Only after Brandon Sanderson took over did they start doing anything useful.
I think the biggest problem that the aes sedai have is that they spend their time training to be Aes Sedai and then graduate and are given a noble's estate income just for existing. You need a worker class who actually do work for the tower rather than everyone flitting off on their own desires.
Moat of the Ajah's are terrible at their jobs. The complete lack of any real advancement in 2000 years says it all.
Ishmael did a pretty remarkable job of hamstringing the white tower in the lead up to the final days before the last battle. Considering its potential, the organization as a whole is pretty pathetic, and more often than not the best deeds done were by remarkable, individual sisters like Cadsuane and Moiraine. (Massive spoiler if you haven’t finished the Gathering Storm) >!The fact that fully *one in five* living sisters are of the Black ajah by the time the world starts tumbling towards Tarmon Gaidon shows the extent of the failure of the Aes sedai as an organization. If not for Egwene and Verin, the Aes Sedai would have been puppets for the shadow even during the last battle!<
Yeah they do, just ask their warders.
The Oaths were put in place to assuage the populace's fears about Aes Sedai trying to conquer and rule them, which were quite high, especially right after the Breaking. The Oath against making weapons was the first one administered, right around this time. The Green Ajah can be criticized for not doing a proper job of fighting along the Blight Border and such, but I highly doubt that the Oaths were put in place to neutralize them.
Look. The ajahs are plot devices, nothing more. Each one does their thing, and apparently only that thing. By the book, every member of the Green Ajah, also known as the Battle Ajah, should be at the Blight. Everyone of them. But, they aren't.