Sounds like it's time to job hunt. When asked, you can say your career path diverged from the obvious next step available at the organization, and no real alternative was evident.
I'm not 100% sure what is the most valid "agreement"—the offer letter I signed with the owner, or the handbook and payroll system that actually dictates what my vacation hours are.
I live in a very right-leaning state so I am assuming the odds are not in my favor with our Department of Labor. As for a lawyer, I will 100% look into it but I have found they don't like to take on clients until the client has a large financial loss.
I have yet to "lose" anything and don't have much for a retainer. I'd appreciate any further input! Thank you!
You’re on your way out and you’re working in a toxic environment. Take the initiative and find a new job ASAP. While it would be professional to give a two week notice, if you don’t, just tell them that the offer letter never indicated such a requirement, regardless of what the handbook says.
It may not be a requirement, but future perspective employees are less likely to hire someone who has done that unless it was some kind of extreme situation.
She should not put this job on her resume. She should not use anyone there as a reference. If she does, they are going to blackball her chances at getting anything else.
Depending on where she is, she might be required to put it on if she was there for longer than a certain period of time. The hiring company could be within their rights to dismiss her for lying on her resume by omission.
The only hiring company I've seen who requires a complete resume is the federal government. Felony and all that for witholding info. But for everyone else, it's not that big a deal if it is for less than a year. If she gets temporary positions until she gets another permanent job, she can just fold it under the temporary agencies heading when it comes to explaining missing time. I did this for several shitty companies I worked for. The only one I couldn't was Comcast, and I just never put down any contact info for them. It was easier with them to explain no contact info because i was under a nda from suing them.
I don't know if there are grounds for sexual harassment based on the number of uncomfortable sexual comments my boss has made about women in our office or related to our employees, and if there is some type of smooth way to phrase that in an interview for the next place on why my last position would likely not recommend me.
Somehow I get the sense that it would not be an optimistic thing to bring up in an interview, that my last company stood by my supervisor making the sexual comments.
Like I said, if you've been there less than a year, don't even mention them on your resume. Push comes to shove, get a temp services job, and accept a bunch of short-term contracts. Then, in a couple of months or a year, fold the work experience from this job under that heading. As long as you do good work for the temp services company, nobody is going to question one extra job skill under their heading on your resume.
Did I advise that they not? No. And, yes, whenever possible, you should give two weeks minimum. What I did say, however, was that if they choose not to, there’s a message they can send. That’s it. Put down the internet pitchfork.
That meeting was their first step in dismissing you. I'm sorry this is happening, but it doesn't sound like a good environment. I wish you luck with your future endeavours.
Your actual comment was somewhat beneficial but your replies to others are so strong. What makes you think the environment has no effect? It seems you have some personal thing you're relating this to.
What is more problematic: screaming, yelling, asking to work unpaid hours, sexual comments about fellow employees and their relatives, asking the youngest and newest full-time employee to load heavy equipment and drive large trucks and vans, or is it me being one of the first on-site aside from occasional tardiness and asking for clarification on hours?
I guess I’m not understanding if all those things are true, why are you still there? Clearly they are giving you the boot. You definitely should give two weeks but no one of forcing you to work there.
Start looking and don't think twice about it👍
You earn 7.5hrs holiday because that's what it says in the handbook.
And!
Ignore the handbook because you signed a 40hr contract.
Those two ideas cannot both work together, because you can't follow what it says and ignore it because it's not for the contract you signed both at the same time.
Edit for formatting
Time for you to go. The owner has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't care how his underlings treat you and the others. He's also made it clear that he is going to allow them to overwork you, and never give you an opportunity to promote out. This job is going to be a wash for you. Don't put any additional effort in other than what is in your job description. In the meantime, find another job. Don't use this job as a reference. If a future employer calls there, they are going to badmouth you and ruin your chances.
Yes, start looking for a better job.
Where are you located? Some states labor department will fine the employer for some of that behavior, especially the screaming. Maybe contact your state labor department and ask about that.
Holy crap. If they aren’t trying to fire you, you should fire yourself, you’re better than them. Go where you aren’t the only person who isn’t a psychopath.
You're only now considering looking for a different job? I would have started looking the first time all this happened:
"My direct boss has called female coworkers "fucking bitches," labeled other employees as "fucking incompetent," and made an inappropriate comment about my mother, calling her "a hot babe" after seeing her photo on my desk. He's 72 years old. Additionally, the CFO has screamed at me and other employees in the hallway"
Are you in the US cause employers in the US use an offer letter, not a contract, and the language in an offer isn't binding (so, therefore, the handbook hours of 37.5 would be correct)
Valid. Very few of them do, and I suspected OP was using the wrong terminology. However, they never responded to ANY comments, so it's kind of a moot point.
So upon employment I was given a job description and an offer letter contract that I had to sign, in addition to the owner of the company. So I use the terminology "contract" because it's a written employment offer signed by she, the owner, and myself.
However, I've been learning about the intricacies of this company only after taking up the position because the offer letter said "you earn one day vacation every pay period worked (2 weeks)." Yet, our payroll system does not use "days" as a time increment—my vacation bank showed that I was accruing only 7.5 hours of vacation after 2 weeks. At this point I was working 8 hour days for a matter of weeks, wondering where everyone was the first half hour of the day.
By now the CFO and my boss had both screamed at me and other colleauges on numerous occasions, hence going to the handbook for clarification. The handbook said our full-time workweek was 37.5 hours.
I took this up with the owner for clarification. She was initially understanding and said the contract was incorrect and the handbook was correct. Now the CFO has made the owner change her change tune, to say I must honor the contract instead of what the handbook states: I must work half an hour more per day than everyone else, yet earn the same vacation as them.
My only reason in not replying until now was that I wanted to gauge overall input to see if I was more at-fault than I suspected. I understand being late is problematic, but after reading this subreddit the consensus seemed to have been to observe office culture. It's normal for my contemporaries and our senior staff to arrive at 10:15AM instead of 9:30AM as required.
I have only been 5-7 minutes late from the 9:30 start time, but they are saying it was technically 30min PLUS 5-7 minutes every time I was late as I am uniquely supposed to start at 9:00 based on the document I actually signed.
Lord, give me the strength to not laugh in someone's face when someone inevitably does some bullshit like this to me. I will need it and my bills will appreciate it. Thank you.
Don't know what state your in but in California it's a at will state meaning they can let you go anytime they want. As an hourly employee you are required to take a .5 hour lunch afterc4hrs work. That .5 lunch can be offsite. Also you must take lunch 4hrs after start. Not 5hrs or 3hrs.
The at will goes both ways. They don't need to give sequence or warning. So you can get up walk out anytime any reason and have them mail your last check.
I've done it. As a IT and Project Mgr if you cal me out in front of my peers your done especially if your lying. I packed my shit up told the owner to mail my check and I left.
I was contacted by one of the other project mgrs that I needed to supply my computer password. Told them go fish. Not only could they not get into my computer but orders came by individual email accounts that were not on a work email server. Bad move. So I also told them go fish for an email password but I would supply it for a price.
Turns out the owner closed the doors one day and took off with all the companies .money and liquidated the employees benefits. He then took off not to be found.
The consensus reading the sub has been to observe office culture on what "timeliness" is. Official start time is 9:30; my contemporaries arrive typically between 9:50AM-10:15AM. If I'm late it's about 5-7 minutes, but the owner has said the contract I actually signed is uniquely 40hrs compared to my coworkers' 37.5 hours. So although I'm one of the first in the office, my 5-7 minutes has been redefined as 35-37 minutes of tardiness on each occasion.
I do appreciate the input but we're not running a hospital over here and that's part of why I initially applied. It's a super progressive religious nonprofit.
Going forward you should worry about yourself and not others, you are responsible for you and your actions. Show up on time, heck be a couple mins early.
I'm confused where you think I overly worried about others? I *have* only worried about myself; don't have issue being on-time or early if it's needed.
You seem to be a nurse. After 7 years myself in healthcare, most of which during COVID, I didn't want to have a job with those levels of stress. I have followed the advice of the sub in fitting in with the workplace; as others are often very late, I am occasionally 5-7 minutes late and simply didn't kill myself over it.
This isn't to say I wouldn't be responsive if someone mentioned an issue. If someone had mentioned they needed me immediately at 9:30 and I was nowhere to be found, I wouldn't arrive 5-7 minutes late *ever*. But nobody has had a concern until now, as most arrive 30-40 minutes late.
Since this meeting, I've been at work 10 mins early no sweat. The whole issue is how everything was redefined in a moment: primarily my contract, my start time, and required hours, but secondarily my concerns on workplace culture shifting to my time clarification versus my complaints of obvious workplace harassment.
Sounds like it's time to job hunt. When asked, you can say your career path diverged from the obvious next step available at the organization, and no real alternative was evident.
Job hunt, have a nice chat with the state Dept of Labor, and possibly speak to a lawyer. No way should they be allowed to get away with this.
I'm not 100% sure what is the most valid "agreement"—the offer letter I signed with the owner, or the handbook and payroll system that actually dictates what my vacation hours are. I live in a very right-leaning state so I am assuming the odds are not in my favor with our Department of Labor. As for a lawyer, I will 100% look into it but I have found they don't like to take on clients until the client has a large financial loss. I have yet to "lose" anything and don't have much for a retainer. I'd appreciate any further input! Thank you!
They are going to start actively looking for your replacement. Take the initiative and start looking
You’re on your way out and you’re working in a toxic environment. Take the initiative and find a new job ASAP. While it would be professional to give a two week notice, if you don’t, just tell them that the offer letter never indicated such a requirement, regardless of what the handbook says.
It may not be a requirement, but future perspective employees are less likely to hire someone who has done that unless it was some kind of extreme situation.
She should not put this job on her resume. She should not use anyone there as a reference. If she does, they are going to blackball her chances at getting anything else.
Depending on where she is, she might be required to put it on if she was there for longer than a certain period of time. The hiring company could be within their rights to dismiss her for lying on her resume by omission.
The only hiring company I've seen who requires a complete resume is the federal government. Felony and all that for witholding info. But for everyone else, it's not that big a deal if it is for less than a year. If she gets temporary positions until she gets another permanent job, she can just fold it under the temporary agencies heading when it comes to explaining missing time. I did this for several shitty companies I worked for. The only one I couldn't was Comcast, and I just never put down any contact info for them. It was easier with them to explain no contact info because i was under a nda from suing them.
I don't know if there are grounds for sexual harassment based on the number of uncomfortable sexual comments my boss has made about women in our office or related to our employees, and if there is some type of smooth way to phrase that in an interview for the next place on why my last position would likely not recommend me. Somehow I get the sense that it would not be an optimistic thing to bring up in an interview, that my last company stood by my supervisor making the sexual comments.
Like I said, if you've been there less than a year, don't even mention them on your resume. Push comes to shove, get a temp services job, and accept a bunch of short-term contracts. Then, in a couple of months or a year, fold the work experience from this job under that heading. As long as you do good work for the temp services company, nobody is going to question one extra job skill under their heading on your resume.
Oh, I know. That’s why I prefaced it with “it would be professional”
This is horrible advice! Always give two weeks!!
Did I advise that they not? No. And, yes, whenever possible, you should give two weeks minimum. What I did say, however, was that if they choose not to, there’s a message they can send. That’s it. Put down the internet pitchfork.
Aside from a true emergency there should never be an “if you don’t” scenario.
That meeting was their first step in dismissing you. I'm sorry this is happening, but it doesn't sound like a good environment. I wish you luck with your future endeavours.
OP is the problem, not the environment.
Your actual comment was somewhat beneficial but your replies to others are so strong. What makes you think the environment has no effect? It seems you have some personal thing you're relating this to. What is more problematic: screaming, yelling, asking to work unpaid hours, sexual comments about fellow employees and their relatives, asking the youngest and newest full-time employee to load heavy equipment and drive large trucks and vans, or is it me being one of the first on-site aside from occasional tardiness and asking for clarification on hours?
I guess I’m not understanding if all those things are true, why are you still there? Clearly they are giving you the boot. You definitely should give two weeks but no one of forcing you to work there.
Start looking and don't think twice about it👍 You earn 7.5hrs holiday because that's what it says in the handbook. And! Ignore the handbook because you signed a 40hr contract. Those two ideas cannot both work together, because you can't follow what it says and ignore it because it's not for the contract you signed both at the same time. Edit for formatting
Time for you to go. The owner has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't care how his underlings treat you and the others. He's also made it clear that he is going to allow them to overwork you, and never give you an opportunity to promote out. This job is going to be a wash for you. Don't put any additional effort in other than what is in your job description. In the meantime, find another job. Don't use this job as a reference. If a future employer calls there, they are going to badmouth you and ruin your chances.
Hopes have been deflated. You should work somewhere else. That's not so shady. You would've been the boss That's always late for minor reasons.
Yes, start looking for a better job. Where are you located? Some states labor department will fine the employer for some of that behavior, especially the screaming. Maybe contact your state labor department and ask about that.
Your future here is dead. Start looking now. Leave as soon as something suitable is offered.
Holy crap. If they aren’t trying to fire you, you should fire yourself, you’re better than them. Go where you aren’t the only person who isn’t a psychopath.
You're only now considering looking for a different job? I would have started looking the first time all this happened: "My direct boss has called female coworkers "fucking bitches," labeled other employees as "fucking incompetent," and made an inappropriate comment about my mother, calling her "a hot babe" after seeing her photo on my desk. He's 72 years old. Additionally, the CFO has screamed at me and other employees in the hallway"
Find a new job and if document/record any toxic behavior & comments moving forward.
Are you in the US cause employers in the US use an offer letter, not a contract, and the language in an offer isn't binding (so, therefore, the handbook hours of 37.5 would be correct)
Some US employers do actually use contracts.
Valid. Very few of them do, and I suspected OP was using the wrong terminology. However, they never responded to ANY comments, so it's kind of a moot point.
So upon employment I was given a job description and an offer letter contract that I had to sign, in addition to the owner of the company. So I use the terminology "contract" because it's a written employment offer signed by she, the owner, and myself. However, I've been learning about the intricacies of this company only after taking up the position because the offer letter said "you earn one day vacation every pay period worked (2 weeks)." Yet, our payroll system does not use "days" as a time increment—my vacation bank showed that I was accruing only 7.5 hours of vacation after 2 weeks. At this point I was working 8 hour days for a matter of weeks, wondering where everyone was the first half hour of the day. By now the CFO and my boss had both screamed at me and other colleauges on numerous occasions, hence going to the handbook for clarification. The handbook said our full-time workweek was 37.5 hours. I took this up with the owner for clarification. She was initially understanding and said the contract was incorrect and the handbook was correct. Now the CFO has made the owner change her change tune, to say I must honor the contract instead of what the handbook states: I must work half an hour more per day than everyone else, yet earn the same vacation as them. My only reason in not replying until now was that I wanted to gauge overall input to see if I was more at-fault than I suspected. I understand being late is problematic, but after reading this subreddit the consensus seemed to have been to observe office culture. It's normal for my contemporaries and our senior staff to arrive at 10:15AM instead of 9:30AM as required. I have only been 5-7 minutes late from the 9:30 start time, but they are saying it was technically 30min PLUS 5-7 minutes every time I was late as I am uniquely supposed to start at 9:00 based on the document I actually signed.
If you can afford to, quit yesterday. If you can't afford to, quit as soon as your next job is lined up.
Maybe not now, but “It’s Ms. F*cking Bitch to you, Buddy.”
Bail baby, bail
Lord, give me the strength to not laugh in someone's face when someone inevitably does some bullshit like this to me. I will need it and my bills will appreciate it. Thank you.
Don't know what state your in but in California it's a at will state meaning they can let you go anytime they want. As an hourly employee you are required to take a .5 hour lunch afterc4hrs work. That .5 lunch can be offsite. Also you must take lunch 4hrs after start. Not 5hrs or 3hrs. The at will goes both ways. They don't need to give sequence or warning. So you can get up walk out anytime any reason and have them mail your last check. I've done it. As a IT and Project Mgr if you cal me out in front of my peers your done especially if your lying. I packed my shit up told the owner to mail my check and I left. I was contacted by one of the other project mgrs that I needed to supply my computer password. Told them go fish. Not only could they not get into my computer but orders came by individual email accounts that were not on a work email server. Bad move. So I also told them go fish for an email password but I would supply it for a price. Turns out the owner closed the doors one day and took off with all the companies .money and liquidated the employees benefits. He then took off not to be found.
You sound like the problem, might want to work on time management.
The consensus reading the sub has been to observe office culture on what "timeliness" is. Official start time is 9:30; my contemporaries arrive typically between 9:50AM-10:15AM. If I'm late it's about 5-7 minutes, but the owner has said the contract I actually signed is uniquely 40hrs compared to my coworkers' 37.5 hours. So although I'm one of the first in the office, my 5-7 minutes has been redefined as 35-37 minutes of tardiness on each occasion. I do appreciate the input but we're not running a hospital over here and that's part of why I initially applied. It's a super progressive religious nonprofit.
Going forward you should worry about yourself and not others, you are responsible for you and your actions. Show up on time, heck be a couple mins early.
I'm confused where you think I overly worried about others? I *have* only worried about myself; don't have issue being on-time or early if it's needed. You seem to be a nurse. After 7 years myself in healthcare, most of which during COVID, I didn't want to have a job with those levels of stress. I have followed the advice of the sub in fitting in with the workplace; as others are often very late, I am occasionally 5-7 minutes late and simply didn't kill myself over it. This isn't to say I wouldn't be responsive if someone mentioned an issue. If someone had mentioned they needed me immediately at 9:30 and I was nowhere to be found, I wouldn't arrive 5-7 minutes late *ever*. But nobody has had a concern until now, as most arrive 30-40 minutes late. Since this meeting, I've been at work 10 mins early no sweat. The whole issue is how everything was redefined in a moment: primarily my contract, my start time, and required hours, but secondarily my concerns on workplace culture shifting to my time clarification versus my complaints of obvious workplace harassment.