I feel like there’s a happy medium here that can be reached. Kids should know that they are loved and important. But we can also teach them that they’re not the center of the universe And it’s rude to interrupt whenever they want or to just demand attention.
I taught my daughter to put her hand on my shoulder when I'm talking to another adult but she wants to say something. I put my hand on hers to acknowledge that she is waiting to speak, and as soon as I finish talking I give her a chance. My friend saw it and asked if I got it from Bluey, but we don't watch that show so actually I got it from a Montessori book I read.
Seriously. I see my peers allow their kids to constantly interrupt our conversations. Kids need to be taught to be polite and wait their turn to speak and that sometimes they don’t get to speak. Like when adults are conversing together, it’s our turn.
Those behaviors translate to the classroom. I'm a teacher. I'll be helping a student, and three desks away I have a kid screeching, "Ms. MS! ... MIIISSSS!" and I have to keep my cool and say, "I'm trying to help Robert. Is there something you need that's urgent?" And they end up just needing help too and I have to explain to them how to wait their turn. Like clearly I'm helping someone, why are you yelling at me?
As a server, I get that all the time. For a teacher, it's got to be frustrating times 100. You can't ignore your students and you're stuck with them all day, every day. I can just pretend I didn't hear/see them and circle back. Then they're gone in a few hours.
Yup. It’s about teaching kids to be polite and not just being permitted to interject themselves and barge in and interrupt at every turn. Kids who are allowed to do that grow into adults that do that!
I saw this in the classroom, especially the last few years I was teaching. Kids would interrupt me constantly the first few weeks (months for some) of school. It’s like it didn’t register that it was rude and disrespectful. They had a thought, so it was coming out. Zero impulse control.
Same, it's definitely a shitty thing to say but... I've seen some kids nowadays and someone should tell them to shut the fuck up. I'll be at work and while trying to explain to the customer what I'm doing (price, service, etc) the kid just rolls up in between us and starts interrogating me and the parents say nothing. I'm talking about 3-5 year olds. It's more them stuttering some shit about their toy or why I'm there, no hi my is or what's your name. Just some bullshit babble that I guess I'm expected to entertain. I have older kids so I understand how kids are but damn
This, right here. Shut tf up when adults are talking and only speak if you’re spoken to; and at that you’d better be polite. Now, this generally only applied in public and more formal gatherings (i.e. holidays); we weren’t expected to be completely unheard everyday.
My mom, who was born in 1945 told me that her grandmother used to say that, and her mother, my grandmother, born in 1920 hated it, but also hated misbehaving children. These people were Protestants from Massachusetts. Today, if you hear that phrase, or hear people talking about it, it almost exclusively pertains to misbehaving children, not simply to children opening their mouths in the presence of older adults.
No Catholics in my family--Southern Baptist--but I *definitely* remember hearing that. Especially from the older generations, my grandparents and their generation.
Fellow Southern Baptist (them, not me) and I learned it as "Girls should be seen, not heard." It was south Mississippi from around 97 to 03. It translated to "never stand up for yourself" and has taken me decades to even identify the problem and try to fix it. 🙄
The Baptist church really fucked over a lot of young ladies when it came to having confidence and independence, didn't it!? I was born into that nonsense and my Grandmother was a career woman born in the 20s, but god forbid any of us spoke out of turn or expressed interest in the same. Biggest hypocrites on the planet.
My parents said it. Mostly ironically. Or when my brother and I were being crazy in the house. It was usually followed up by “Get your butt outside! The house isn’t a jungle gym!”
This was the attitude of my grandparents generation born 1910-20. My mom felt like she was supposed to be a pretty doll. They were WASPs - Baptist and Presbyterian.
Its a generational thing. Has absolutely nothing to do woth religion.
Like the maids/servers, children should be seen not heard. Meaning you're not in the way of adult conversations and when there are visitors, etc. You say hello or what ever and then off you pop, go do something on the other side of the house so you're not in the way.
I have a very energetic 8 yr old.. im starting to understand this saying. Lol!
We are struggling as well. It's hard to get an adult conversation in sometimes. So we are trying to correct and teach them appropriate conversation etiquette. 4,7,9 in our household.
Something that worked for us was teaching them not to interrupt us, and if they needed our attention when we were in a conversation they would place their hand on us. We would put our hand on top of theirs to acknowledge them, and would give them our attention when it was time.
I like to add the 'woo oo' to the end of any two syllable thing to which it would be funny.
Sales tax! Woo oo!
Butt stuff! Woo oo!
I guess you had to be there
My grandpa's parents had this philosophy. They also didn't get to eat until after the adults at family dinners. This was in the 30s. My grandpa always made sure we were well fed and happy because he thought his parents were assholes for being like that.
I grew up in a large Irish Catholic family. It’s hilarious that someone would think Catholic families with half a dozen kids would also have quiet kids.
I never heard that phrase from any family members. In fact, I remember my mom explaining to me why my dad would get upset with how loud we were was because he grew up essentially an only child as a significantly younger sibling. My mom, on the other hand was the oldest of 5. Her childhood home was never quiet.
I have a pretty large extended catholic family, It was a phrase i heard all the time growing up. I had no idea it was only a catholic thing though.
TBH, it's not a phrase I disagree with. It's good for children to spend some time in adult spaces so they can listen and learn but they should not disrupt them with unruly/loud behaviour or by asking an endless stream of questions.
I always took that to mean children should be listening and observing. Just like the old adage “you have two ears and one mouth so you should listen twice as much as you talk.”
I remember hearing this a couple times. I don't remember if it was from my parents or an older relative or friend of the family but I kind of took it to heart and never grew out of it. I'm normal around people my own age but stealth mode still kicks on when I'm around older people lol
My father said this to me once when I was probably around 8. Then told me a story where a girl took it literally and told me not to. Although what he actually said were little girls should be seen and not heard. It surprises me that he even said it thinking back on it because my dad isn’t the misogynist type… perhaps that’s why he followed up with the story.
Edit… we weren’t Catholics or even really very religious
No, it’s generational. I’m Catholic but my parents were very much in this vein of thinking, until they became grandparents. Now it’s all about the grandkids.
It's a religious and rural and/or poverty thing. One of my parents carried a generational poverty mindset and a holdover of her Catholic upbringing, the other had strict religious parents, non-Catholic. Neither practiced nor believed their original religious upbringing, but idioms and beliefs like "children should be seen (rarely), and not heard" were common. It did not help that we were in a rural setting where local norms were deeply conservative and about ten years behind the times, especially if everyone was on the poorer side.
I was born in 1980. My mom's side of the family did not like children and this was a thing that was expected in their homes. My dad's were immigrants and everyone was loud and kids were always running around having fun.
My mom pushed back hard against this. She came from a hard core Irish Catholic family, so I'm sure that checks a few boxes, and she would be encouraged to treat me this way. However as the only child of my generation locally (my mother was second youngest locally), she didn't want me to be too isolated during family functions.
Also, 83 isn't too young for this sub, FYI. Xennialism is as much a state of mind as it is a generational category.
was true for me too. I am not that way with my kids though, feel like it crushed my spirit a little. Want my kids to have more confidence and feel empowered.
I know of the saying so it might have been said by my more strict grandparents but not enough so that I remember them saying it to me. But, like someone else said there was a deference that children were expected to pay to the adults by not interrupting or really just hanging out and “bothering” them (the go play outside or in your room part of our childhoods) that I don’t see as much in the children of ours and later generations. Also, we absolutely had a “children’s table” at holidays and getting to move up to the grown up’s table was a thing.
I mainly heard this from very religious individuals. My husband only heard it from his grandma, she was also very religious. My parents raised us there are times and places EVERYONE should be seen and not heard.
Yeah, this was probably a generational thing. My step dad said it all the time. My parents took it a step farther: if I wasn’t outside or at school, I should either be in the garage asleep. I think there was a whole generation who just thought kids were no more than a nuisance.
1977, and my parents were taught that but didn't pass it on. Thank goodness, my sister and I have so many kids, their house is sheer chaos when we're all there. Like this Thursday coming up.
Catholic family so I have heard this but never from my own parents. As another commenter said we were expected to know when to shut up. Otoh my wife and I were talking finances yesterday and my seven year old overheard part then started trying to give us advice... That phrase isn't entirely without merit.
1978. This was a thing my stepfather used to say a lot, and none of us were Catholic (though allegedly Episcopal).
Our family (mostly mothers side) was very much an elders first group. My wife's family, by contrast, is very children first.
That is absolute horse shit, my parents were Episcopalian and later Unitarian Church members and I heard that shit (half joking) from them and other adults.
My mom’s maternal side of the the family was Catholic and that’s how their kids behaved. I was threatened with the fact that kids used to be seen and not heard (I believe it came from the Victorian era) and that I was so lucky to be allowed to make noise.
These are the phrases I heard growing up…..
Children don’t talk back
Don’t talk back to an adult
“The adults are talking
But I mostly heard
If you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything at all.
I never heard children should be seen and not heard but the general concept of not interrupting or not arguing with an adult was there.
My mom always said
“If I don’t hear you then that’s when I get worried”
“What is my child up to!!”
“No, no, no!!! Give me the permanent marker!!”
I heard that growing up….didn’t listen though. My wife is from even further south and she heard it as “young ladies should be seen and not heard”….she didn’t listen either.
I was raised conservative Lutheran. I’m no longer any of those things. “Seen and not heard” was just a convenient excuse for my father to fall back on in a pathetic attempt to justify his physically / emotionally abusive and neglectful behavior.
Church damages children in more ways than you can imagine, continuing the generational cycle of abuse in a violent attempt to hold onto power in society. Church offering money just keeps pedophiles out of prison.
I saw this as a manners and etiquette thing. Basically, don't go running around screaming and destroying shit, making everyone else miserable and on edge.
Born in 83, Catholic on my mom's side. I never heard this in real life. I did hear "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" all the time, though, from grandpas on both sides and my dad.
My Stepmother was raised this way and still thinks this is how kids should be raised. I have a 7 year old son on the spectrum and with ADHD and it gets a bit infuriating how she just can't cope with him not being able to shut up and be still.
I only read it or heard it in movies. I think my grandmother said it to my mom once when I was little and my mom was basically like, "F that."
I read somewhere years ago that it didn't mean children should be silent, but it was an expectation that they could converse with adults in a way that would be more formal and resemble how adults spoke to one another.
1985 here and I was constantly told "Children are meant to be seen and not heard". I was born in the South, raised in the Midwest, and my parents are Boomers from the Midwest.
I’m not Catholic and I heard this a lot. Mostly in regard to the idea children shouldn’t inject themselves into conversations between adults. Which I honestly agree with.
Catholic family here. I heard it but never meant seriously. My parents would say it and laugh when we were making a racket. I don't know about Dad's side, but Mom's very Catholic parents would not have said that seriously either.
That said, we were expected to go occupy ourselves quietly elsewhere when my parents had adult company visiting. For informal gatherings we could be around and occasionally say something but were expected to not dominate or interfere with the adult conversation.
I was born in 1975 in a Seventh-Day Adventist family and culture, and it was said to all of us kids, all the time, by everyone. It's a religion that hates joy and is suspicious of frivolity and allergic to childlike enthusiasm and wonder.
I’ve heard of this saying before. It know it was stated in Laura Ingalls Wilder’s books so I always thought it was generational. My parents never said that, but we were definitely discouraged from interrupting if adults were talking.
My family isn't Catholic, but I heard this all the time.
I've also seen the phrase in old books like Anne of Green Gables and Little Women and Beautiful Joe. None of those families were Catholic either.
I suspect that, because Catholics typically had larger families, they'd be more likely to demand silence from their kids, so they may have said it more often.
Heard it alot. When inwas 20 in military a sgt said it to me and it triggered something deep. I replied "my grandmother had a saying too. Talk shit get knocked the fuck out". No idea how i didnt get in trouble for that one lol
I heard this as well, but it was just understood not to talk over adults.
Quick note, but our ‘boomer parents’ definitely heard this from their parents raised in the Great Depression/WW2 era. We have to remember that the Baby Boomers were the first real American generation to enjoy a level of post war prosperity and economic stability completely unheard of for previous generations of children. This is when things like youth athletic programs, and child extracurricular activities, exploded in popularity, and had active parental participation and support. Before this most children had very little real free time, and actively worked to help support the family. The end of actual legal child labor in factories across the nation had only come to an official end in 1938!
So our boomer parents were raised by a generation who themselves were raised in a much more difficult era time where children were given little regard at all, except for their ability to work and contribute to the family. They weren’t really considered autonomous beings to be respected and indulged. “Seen not heard” is a clear indicator for this, but it had real reasons for existing.
I remember reading it in the Little House on the Prairie books. I didn't grow up with grandparents around so I took it as how kids were treated in the 1940s and prior.
IDK my parents let me speak. And I was kind of a brat, asking endless questions about everything. Depends on the parents. And I was raised Catholic.
That being said, my parents broke the norm and i'm quite sure my aunt who was very annoyed by me would fully agree with the attitude.
It was a generational thing said by older members of my aggressively Protestant family. My parents also born prior to 1950’s largely rejected that saying, but did instill in us a children a sense distinguishing between ‘grownups’ time and time with grownups + kids.’ My friends and cousins and I learned how to read the room and not interject ourselves into our parents hanging out.
Raised strict Lutheran. 🤮
That was definitely a thought commonly enforced by grandparents and to a lesser extent my parents who were of the Silent Gen.
Born in 1980 and this was how I was raised. Don't talk or be in the way, but also be aware and paying attention in case your presence is required. Eventually I was able to convince my parents to let me bring a book with me. Wasn't raised Catholic (though I did do church/Sunday school and then mass with a friend). So I don't think it's a Catholic thing. My parents were born in the 50s so I just assume they were doing what they were raised with. It's absolutely forked up and I'm sorry they experienced that.
As a result I have a very active imagination to this day. I also try to avoid my parents and their families. Not just for this, but you know, that didn't help.
I think it's generational rather than cultural. When my husband (1977) and his sister (1978) would visit their grandparents (1910), they were to be both not seen and not heard. They would get shuffled off to an upstairs bedroom to wait out the visit. This was more Grandpa than Grandma. Neither was Catholic.
I remember going to my paternal grandma's house to visit and having to sit there on the couch - silently - while the adults talked. I think it was because Grandma lived in a small duplex and didn't want me wandering around getting into stuff. My maternal grandma lived on a farm, and she encouraged us grandkids to just stay out of the house and find something to explore on the property. She did the same with her kids, but I think that's because she had 7 kids and only had enough bandwidth to parent and be a farm wife. Parenting took a back seat.
generational for sure. same boat as you. mom says all the time that’s how they were taught and it kept them from learning a lot about family history because they weren’t allowed to ask questions or anything and were encouraged to go elsewhere
Also born in’83, and raised Catholic. Parents were about a decade younger than yours, so we’re Young Boomers I suppose. That phrase was repeated throughout my childhood.
Doesn’t really answer your question, but figured I’d commiserate.
Nope I was born in 85 and that was my house. I would sit and pray every meal that I was quiet enough that my step dad didn’t notice me and that my general table manners were good enough while silently eating my meal that I wouldn’t get my ass beaten at the end of said meal.
It’s why I’ve actively tried to foster a household where my kids can express their opinions and be loud and oftentimes super annoying. I don’t want them to feel small and scared like I always did.
I still say that. That and "You beta get somewhere and sit down fo I beat ur a**". And of course "Hard head make a soft ass, So get me a switch and don't get no Luh one". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I grew up in a rural area and was told this growing up. However my wife came from an even more rural area and when I told her my parents used to say this she thought it was awful.
I'm just chalking it up to asshole parents but thats just my small perspective.
It goes back at least to the Victorian era, and likely earlier. It had nothing to do with religion, but was adopted because rich people had nannies and governesses who would keep the kids out of sight all day and have them show up just to say goodnight after dinner before they were whisked back to the nursery for bedtime.
Less rich people trying to emulate that got as close as they could by telling the kids to shut up and pretend they weren't in the room.
Catholic here, born 1979, parents born in the 1950s. They never said that. I got the impression it was the kind of thing more to be expected from my grandparents’ generation.
They did teach me manners and not to interrupt, though. (Or should I say attempted … I still struggle with it!)
Mom and her little gaggle of nags would say this, but this was in the 70s and she was a hard christian. Spare the rod and spoil the child was also quoted a lot, So the best thing to be was silent in your mischief, and learn how to move without sound. She ended up putting bells on my shoes. The bitch.
Born in 1979, and my parents specifically said that they weren’t going to raise their children that way, and encouraged interaction with adults and sharing thoughts/feelings.
Edit: Canada, no religion
I've heard the phrase. I was raised catholic. I dunno about origins but it also didn't go far in my family based on a single event.
So, when I was a kid, about 7 or so, my parents sold their first house to an older couple. My little brother, 2 at the time, and I were playing and well kids make noise. Dad apparently told us to play quieter once because they had had trouble hating one another and the older man buying the house stopped my dad with "no. It's alright. That's the sound of life and happiness. So what if we have to ask each other to repeat things? That doesn't matter. Let them be children. I knew too many who didn't get to be." and my father agreed. He later told me it had a origins effect on him. The reason it was a profound effect is my father had already noticed that the older gentleman had a number tattooed on his inner forearm. When my father told me the story, he said" that man had seen more than anyone ever should have to see and if what he had learned was that letting kids play was more important, I wasn't going to argue with him. He had learned something far more important than I had and it was my job to learn from him there." Kids were heard a lot in my house growing up.
My parents are not catholic, but in general we werent supposed to speak unless spoken to or if someone asked us a question. (Born 1985). I do remember the phrase you mentioned, but it was presented as being from a previous generation.
It was a catch phrase from an old W.C. Fields movie which resonated with the boomer generation. He was also known for his phrase " get away kid, ya bother me" He was an old vaudvillian drunk actor of his time.
My grandmother (not Catholic, but born in 1917) used to tell my cousin & I that this was what she was told as a child, but wasn't enforced on us & my own parents (1950 & 1954, also not Catholic) never said it.
I'm just here to say as I was skimming post titles I did a double take because I thought it said "Sean and not heard", and I was like, "What did Sean do to deerve this!"
I'm just here to say as I was skimming post titles I did a double take because I thought it said "Sean and not heard", and I was like, "What did Sean do to deserve this!"
Not catholic or religious at all. What I take from the saying is that when adults are talking, the children should be out doing children things, not around trying to engage in adult conversations. That is how I was taught.
My step-daughter, now 17, but has been doing it since about 12, always wants to be around when my wife or I have friends over. I have to constantly tell her to leave the room. We are having adult conversations, not meant for children's ears. My wife is kind of indifferent to it, but it bothers me.
Born 1984, grew up hearing that. It’s held up with my son. I don’t say it a lot, but he knows he is not to interrupt unless it’s an emergency.
If he does this, I’ll continue to interrupt him if it’s not an emergency. He doesn’t do it often, but picks up on it when I do it and gets quiet. I then ask, was that rude of me? Should I have waited until you were done? He then apologizes and stays quiet until we are done. The grandparents say, oh it’s fine let him finish. I say no, he needs to learn patience and basic human respect.
He has gotten so much better about this. When he goes places without us, his parents, we get compliments in text or a call on how great he is and well mannered, respectful, etc. He’s a good kid overall, looks out for others and responds well and learns from treat others the way you want to be treated.
My parents (born in the 1940s) dealt with this growing up. People were very severe with their kids during that time - at least where we come from. My family is of a Christian background and still practice, but that attitude toward children is not something I EVER dealt with. I was always treated like a little adult and involved in things, made welcome.
As Catholics my grandmother was not a fan of this saying. I recall it heavily in books based around 1850 to early 1920s...Alcott, Wilder, etc. These writers are exclusively protestants but I believe more a product of an era where children where not quite human. To be snarky, the anti child anti natalism trend of now preach the same mentality.
My dad said it and was raised Methodist and was an atheist as an adult. He said his parents said it but he didn’t think it was always true. Only sometimes. Idk.
My family was all Mormon and I heard it. I heard a psychologist out someone talking about it. Up until fairly recently in history, parents really didn't even really try bonding with their kids because the mortality rate was so high. So they got to a point where they would basically just ignore them as a person until a certain age and would say "children are to be seen and not heard". It may have been a historian, but definitely generational IMO.
It was strong in my mother’s family and they were not catholic. They were of Irish decent coal miners in Pennsylvania era (mom born in early 50s). They didn’t go to church but I *think the church of choice for funeral was perhaps Baptist.
You are missing part of that phrase my family used: Children are to be seen and not heard….and preferably not seen.
That is, until my mom’s baby brother FINALLY had a baby boy 20 years later and all of a sudden there were toys and shit EVERYWHERE. Out of all the girls in the family that boy was definitely the golden child 😒
My parents never actually said that but I was expected to shut up when the adults were talking.
We, as the adults now, should go back to this policy.
I feel like there’s a happy medium here that can be reached. Kids should know that they are loved and important. But we can also teach them that they’re not the center of the universe And it’s rude to interrupt whenever they want or to just demand attention.
I taught my daughter to put her hand on my shoulder when I'm talking to another adult but she wants to say something. I put my hand on hers to acknowledge that she is waiting to speak, and as soon as I finish talking I give her a chance. My friend saw it and asked if I got it from Bluey, but we don't watch that show so actually I got it from a Montessori book I read.
💯💯💯
Seriously. I see my peers allow their kids to constantly interrupt our conversations. Kids need to be taught to be polite and wait their turn to speak and that sometimes they don’t get to speak. Like when adults are conversing together, it’s our turn.
Those behaviors translate to the classroom. I'm a teacher. I'll be helping a student, and three desks away I have a kid screeching, "Ms. MS! ... MIIISSSS!" and I have to keep my cool and say, "I'm trying to help Robert. Is there something you need that's urgent?" And they end up just needing help too and I have to explain to them how to wait their turn. Like clearly I'm helping someone, why are you yelling at me?
As a server, I get that all the time. For a teacher, it's got to be frustrating times 100. You can't ignore your students and you're stuck with them all day, every day. I can just pretend I didn't hear/see them and circle back. Then they're gone in a few hours.
Absolutely! One of the biggest problems with our society is the removal of this general rule.
Yup. It’s about teaching kids to be polite and not just being permitted to interject themselves and barge in and interrupt at every turn. Kids who are allowed to do that grow into adults that do that!
I saw this in the classroom, especially the last few years I was teaching. Kids would interrupt me constantly the first few weeks (months for some) of school. It’s like it didn’t register that it was rude and disrespectful. They had a thought, so it was coming out. Zero impulse control.
Yeah. We’re not Catholic, but that was definitely the prevailing philosophy.
Same, it's definitely a shitty thing to say but... I've seen some kids nowadays and someone should tell them to shut the fuck up. I'll be at work and while trying to explain to the customer what I'm doing (price, service, etc) the kid just rolls up in between us and starts interrogating me and the parents say nothing. I'm talking about 3-5 year olds. It's more them stuttering some shit about their toy or why I'm there, no hi my is or what's your name. Just some bullshit babble that I guess I'm expected to entertain. I have older kids so I understand how kids are but damn
This, right here. Shut tf up when adults are talking and only speak if you’re spoken to; and at that you’d better be polite. Now, this generally only applied in public and more formal gatherings (i.e. holidays); we weren’t expected to be completely unheard everyday.
Be quiet when grown folks are talking
I was born in 1982 and I remember it being a previous generation thing.
My mom, who was born in 1945 told me that her grandmother used to say that, and her mother, my grandmother, born in 1920 hated it, but also hated misbehaving children. These people were Protestants from Massachusetts. Today, if you hear that phrase, or hear people talking about it, it almost exclusively pertains to misbehaving children, not simply to children opening their mouths in the presence of older adults.
Yes, I remember it being referred to as something older generations incorrectly taught their kids
Yep. My parents told me that saying was bullshit.
My mum said this a lot, but she also came from a British old-fashioned background.
No Catholics in my family--Southern Baptist--but I *definitely* remember hearing that. Especially from the older generations, my grandparents and their generation.
Fellow Southern Baptist (them, not me) and I learned it as "Girls should be seen, not heard." It was south Mississippi from around 97 to 03. It translated to "never stand up for yourself" and has taken me decades to even identify the problem and try to fix it. 🙄
Mississippi should be seen, not heard. Or maybe not even that, I hear they got strange fruit on the trees.
The Baptist church really fucked over a lot of young ladies when it came to having confidence and independence, didn't it!? I was born into that nonsense and my Grandmother was a career woman born in the 20s, but god forbid any of us spoke out of turn or expressed interest in the same. Biggest hypocrites on the planet.
Southern Baptist parents and grandparents here too. Spent the summers with my grandparents and it was definitely a thing. Not so much with my parents.
My parents would say this, jokingly. No Catholics in our family.
This, agree. Me, 1979, older sister 1977. My parents were born in the 50s. Southern US, not Catholic.
My parents said it. Mostly ironically. Or when my brother and I were being crazy in the house. It was usually followed up by “Get your butt outside! The house isn’t a jungle gym!”
Man, you hit the nail on the head. I can hear my father saying the jungle gym line.
This was the attitude of my grandparents generation born 1910-20. My mom felt like she was supposed to be a pretty doll. They were WASPs - Baptist and Presbyterian.
What does WASP stand for?
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant
Thank you
https://preview.redd.it/ssd74spymx9d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8c947c1c1f20d27d75762a79be27c6b53d7adb6 We are sexual perverts
I hear one of them fucks like a beast.
You can always tell a Milford man...
This is the right answer. They should neither seen nor heard.
Came here to see this. Thank you 🫡
Its a generational thing. Has absolutely nothing to do woth religion. Like the maids/servers, children should be seen not heard. Meaning you're not in the way of adult conversations and when there are visitors, etc. You say hello or what ever and then off you pop, go do something on the other side of the house so you're not in the way. I have a very energetic 8 yr old.. im starting to understand this saying. Lol!
We are struggling as well. It's hard to get an adult conversation in sometimes. So we are trying to correct and teach them appropriate conversation etiquette. 4,7,9 in our household.
Something that worked for us was teaching them not to interrupt us, and if they needed our attention when we were in a conversation they would place their hand on us. We would put our hand on top of theirs to acknowledge them, and would give them our attention when it was time.
Ooh, I like this.
The only time I personally heard it was on Ducktales.
A-WOO-ooo
I like to add the 'woo oo' to the end of any two syllable thing to which it would be funny. Sales tax! Woo oo! Butt stuff! Woo oo! I guess you had to be there
My grandpa's parents had this philosophy. They also didn't get to eat until after the adults at family dinners. This was in the 30s. My grandpa always made sure we were well fed and happy because he thought his parents were assholes for being like that.
My step dad said this. No religion. He was just an asshole.
You’re the right age for this sub!👌🏼🤗
I grew up in a large Irish Catholic family. It’s hilarious that someone would think Catholic families with half a dozen kids would also have quiet kids. I never heard that phrase from any family members. In fact, I remember my mom explaining to me why my dad would get upset with how loud we were was because he grew up essentially an only child as a significantly younger sibling. My mom, on the other hand was the oldest of 5. Her childhood home was never quiet.
Catholic Italian family here. Never heard this phrase before.
83 is Xennial. Welcome
My grandparents would say this. Not catholic. I think it’s more a generational thing.
My parents usually just yelled "Shut up!" from the other room
I think both. I think up until about Victorian/Edwardian times it was a widespread generational thing but Catholics just continued with it longer.
Growing up I heard adults from all backgrounds and generations say this or something similar.
Not a Catholic thing. Just our parents transmitting their traumatic upbringing to us.
I have a pretty large extended catholic family, It was a phrase i heard all the time growing up. I had no idea it was only a catholic thing though. TBH, it's not a phrase I disagree with. It's good for children to spend some time in adult spaces so they can listen and learn but they should not disrupt them with unruly/loud behaviour or by asking an endless stream of questions.
I always took that to mean children should be listening and observing. Just like the old adage “you have two ears and one mouth so you should listen twice as much as you talk.”
it's a misinterpretation of a medieval saying that was actually targeted at girls and young unmarried women.
The word “girls” at the time of this saying was not gender specific and meant young child.
My parents were born in the 40s and this was never a thing in our family.
I remember hearing this a couple times. I don't remember if it was from my parents or an older relative or friend of the family but I kind of took it to heart and never grew out of it. I'm normal around people my own age but stealth mode still kicks on when I'm around older people lol
I learned it in Christian school.
I heard this growing up and my family weren't Catholic in the slightest.
My parents would say this in a joking way that it was something they were told as children.
My father said this to me once when I was probably around 8. Then told me a story where a girl took it literally and told me not to. Although what he actually said were little girls should be seen and not heard. It surprises me that he even said it thinking back on it because my dad isn’t the misogynist type… perhaps that’s why he followed up with the story. Edit… we weren’t Catholics or even really very religious
No, it’s generational. I’m Catholic but my parents were very much in this vein of thinking, until they became grandparents. Now it’s all about the grandkids.
I was raised this way. I also had/have severe ADHD which led to a really shitty upbringing.
'83 and yes I remember that well. Pretty sure there was a twist where children should be seen and not 'hurt'. Maybe road safety related?
It's a religious and rural and/or poverty thing. One of my parents carried a generational poverty mindset and a holdover of her Catholic upbringing, the other had strict religious parents, non-Catholic. Neither practiced nor believed their original religious upbringing, but idioms and beliefs like "children should be seen (rarely), and not heard" were common. It did not help that we were in a rural setting where local norms were deeply conservative and about ten years behind the times, especially if everyone was on the poorer side.
I was born in 1980. My mom's side of the family did not like children and this was a thing that was expected in their homes. My dad's were immigrants and everyone was loud and kids were always running around having fun.
Not raised catholic AT ALL and I remember hearing that as child it might not have been my parents but grandparents that said it
My mom pushed back hard against this. She came from a hard core Irish Catholic family, so I'm sure that checks a few boxes, and she would be encouraged to treat me this way. However as the only child of my generation locally (my mother was second youngest locally), she didn't want me to be too isolated during family functions. Also, 83 isn't too young for this sub, FYI. Xennialism is as much a state of mind as it is a generational category.
was true for me too. I am not that way with my kids though, feel like it crushed my spirit a little. Want my kids to have more confidence and feel empowered.
I am also an 83er and was technically raised Irish Catholic and I have heard both Catholics and non-Catholics say this.
I know of the saying so it might have been said by my more strict grandparents but not enough so that I remember them saying it to me. But, like someone else said there was a deference that children were expected to pay to the adults by not interrupting or really just hanging out and “bothering” them (the go play outside or in your room part of our childhoods) that I don’t see as much in the children of ours and later generations. Also, we absolutely had a “children’s table” at holidays and getting to move up to the grown up’s table was a thing.
I mainly heard this from very religious individuals. My husband only heard it from his grandma, she was also very religious. My parents raised us there are times and places EVERYONE should be seen and not heard.
I was b '70s, my grandmother used to say that, she was b '30s and very much a new york jew. I'm sure my mother said it at some point too.
My dad said it was a saying a long time ago. No Catholics around here, just Mennonites.
I remember this saying. My understanding is that it’s more of a respect issue. When adults are in the room having a conversation you become invisible.
Yeah, this was probably a generational thing. My step dad said it all the time. My parents took it a step farther: if I wasn’t outside or at school, I should either be in the garage asleep. I think there was a whole generation who just thought kids were no more than a nuisance.
1977, and my parents were taught that but didn't pass it on. Thank goodness, my sister and I have so many kids, their house is sheer chaos when we're all there. Like this Thursday coming up.
Raised Catholic here (pagan now), I was born in 83 and told this, but my grandmother (born in 1935) was my main caregiver and the one this came from
Catholic family so I have heard this but never from my own parents. As another commenter said we were expected to know when to shut up. Otoh my wife and I were talking finances yesterday and my seven year old overheard part then started trying to give us advice... That phrase isn't entirely without merit.
1978. This was a thing my stepfather used to say a lot, and none of us were Catholic (though allegedly Episcopal). Our family (mostly mothers side) was very much an elders first group. My wife's family, by contrast, is very children first.
My family is catholic. I’ve heard the expression but only on tv and movies. Never in real life.
That is absolute horse shit, my parents were Episcopalian and later Unitarian Church members and I heard that shit (half joking) from them and other adults.
My mom’s maternal side of the the family was Catholic and that’s how their kids behaved. I was threatened with the fact that kids used to be seen and not heard (I believe it came from the Victorian era) and that I was so lucky to be allowed to make noise.
It sounds like something the old person villain says in kid’s made-for-tv movies…
These are the phrases I heard growing up….. Children don’t talk back Don’t talk back to an adult “The adults are talking But I mostly heard If you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything at all. I never heard children should be seen and not heard but the general concept of not interrupting or not arguing with an adult was there. My mom always said “If I don’t hear you then that’s when I get worried” “What is my child up to!!” “No, no, no!!! Give me the permanent marker!!”
That was definitely something that was enforced in the Victorian era...
Little girls in the 80s were to be seen and not heard, out in public, or inside any place with walls.
I grew up Catholic and I always knew it as a 2x previous generation thing, like maybe my grandparents grew up with it.
I heard that growing up….didn’t listen though. My wife is from even further south and she heard it as “young ladies should be seen and not heard”….she didn’t listen either.
I was raised conservative Lutheran. I’m no longer any of those things. “Seen and not heard” was just a convenient excuse for my father to fall back on in a pathetic attempt to justify his physically / emotionally abusive and neglectful behavior. Church damages children in more ways than you can imagine, continuing the generational cycle of abuse in a violent attempt to hold onto power in society. Church offering money just keeps pedophiles out of prison.
I saw this as a manners and etiquette thing. Basically, don't go running around screaming and destroying shit, making everyone else miserable and on edge.
I think that has been the attitude towards kids for hundreds of years.
Born in 83, Catholic on my mom's side. I never heard this in real life. I did hear "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" all the time, though, from grandpas on both sides and my dad.
82 kid here, grew up in a catholic home and definitely heard this from my grandma and parents.
My Stepmother was raised this way and still thinks this is how kids should be raised. I have a 7 year old son on the spectrum and with ADHD and it gets a bit infuriating how she just can't cope with him not being able to shut up and be still.
I only read it or heard it in movies. I think my grandmother said it to my mom once when I was little and my mom was basically like, "F that." I read somewhere years ago that it didn't mean children should be silent, but it was an expectation that they could converse with adults in a way that would be more formal and resemble how adults spoke to one another.
I arrived in '85... and it was present as a generational thing in my family. We were protestant, not Catholic.
I’m ‘83 to parents born in the ‘40s. I knew of that saying from books when I was a kid, but never heard it applied in real life.
Cultural, specifically church setting.
Well it’s not a wrong saying. Newsflash! No one likes your kids but you.
1985 here and I was constantly told "Children are meant to be seen and not heard". I was born in the South, raised in the Midwest, and my parents are Boomers from the Midwest.
That's a boomer/early Xer thing, but also a trad Catholic (so nearly all US ones) thing from way before that and still to this day to some degree.
I’m not Catholic and I heard this a lot. Mostly in regard to the idea children shouldn’t inject themselves into conversations between adults. Which I honestly agree with.
Catholic family here. I heard it but never meant seriously. My parents would say it and laugh when we were making a racket. I don't know about Dad's side, but Mom's very Catholic parents would not have said that seriously either. That said, we were expected to go occupy ourselves quietly elsewhere when my parents had adult company visiting. For informal gatherings we could be around and occasionally say something but were expected to not dominate or interfere with the adult conversation.
Born in 83’. Heard this a lot
I was born in 1975 in a Seventh-Day Adventist family and culture, and it was said to all of us kids, all the time, by everyone. It's a religion that hates joy and is suspicious of frivolity and allergic to childlike enthusiasm and wonder.
Born in 79. My mother said it to me all of the time.
My Catholic Grandpa said this often- he was an ass. Not sure if it was a Catholic thing, or just a "being an ass" thing.
Born 1980 here - this was something Boomers were told by their parents
From Catholic family, never heard this from my parents.
I’ve heard of this saying before. It know it was stated in Laura Ingalls Wilder’s books so I always thought it was generational. My parents never said that, but we were definitely discouraged from interrupting if adults were talking.
My wife’s parents did the same “seen and not heard” thing. Mine did the same “neither seen nor heard” one.
My family isn't Catholic, but I heard this all the time. I've also seen the phrase in old books like Anne of Green Gables and Little Women and Beautiful Joe. None of those families were Catholic either. I suspect that, because Catholics typically had larger families, they'd be more likely to demand silence from their kids, so they may have said it more often.
Late 82 baby here. Both parents born before 1950. Also raised Catholic and always heard the same “seen and not heard”.
Heard it alot. When inwas 20 in military a sgt said it to me and it triggered something deep. I replied "my grandmother had a saying too. Talk shit get knocked the fuck out". No idea how i didnt get in trouble for that one lol
My catholic parents said it all the time. My favorite quote summa it up. "Ain't no hate like catholic love".
I heard this as well, but it was just understood not to talk over adults. Quick note, but our ‘boomer parents’ definitely heard this from their parents raised in the Great Depression/WW2 era. We have to remember that the Baby Boomers were the first real American generation to enjoy a level of post war prosperity and economic stability completely unheard of for previous generations of children. This is when things like youth athletic programs, and child extracurricular activities, exploded in popularity, and had active parental participation and support. Before this most children had very little real free time, and actively worked to help support the family. The end of actual legal child labor in factories across the nation had only come to an official end in 1938! So our boomer parents were raised by a generation who themselves were raised in a much more difficult era time where children were given little regard at all, except for their ability to work and contribute to the family. They weren’t really considered autonomous beings to be respected and indulged. “Seen not heard” is a clear indicator for this, but it had real reasons for existing.
As an only child I think my parents liked it when I talked because it meant they could address each other less lol
Not Catholic. Raised in a very conservative Methodists family. I heard this a lot
I remember reading it in the Little House on the Prairie books. I didn't grow up with grandparents around so I took it as how kids were treated in the 1940s and prior.
IDK my parents let me speak. And I was kind of a brat, asking endless questions about everything. Depends on the parents. And I was raised Catholic. That being said, my parents broke the norm and i'm quite sure my aunt who was very annoyed by me would fully agree with the attitude.
“Children should neither be seen, nor heard, and preferably belong to somebody else.”
Born in 83 and we were absolutely raised this way. My mother even complained about the younger generations not doing this.
Among the more annoying traits of my children is that they frequently force me to speak when I would much prefer to remain silent.
It was a generational thing said by older members of my aggressively Protestant family. My parents also born prior to 1950’s largely rejected that saying, but did instill in us a children a sense distinguishing between ‘grownups’ time and time with grownups + kids.’ My friends and cousins and I learned how to read the room and not interject ourselves into our parents hanging out.
They embroidered that on pillows in the late 1800’s/early 1900’s, so I always thought it was from assholes who should’ve never had kids 🤷♀️🤔
85'er here, my Boomer mother is Baptist, and I heard it all the time. I'm also on the Canadian east coast.
It meant the kids were making too much noise. Kinda like you have two ears and one mouth so do twice as much listening.
Yeah older gen thing. I’m 76 and my parents grew I with that.
I heard it but mostly from my Aunt, not my Mom. My Mom was a boomer, my Auntie was of the silent generation.
My dad always said his parents said this all the time.
Raised strict Lutheran. 🤮 That was definitely a thought commonly enforced by grandparents and to a lesser extent my parents who were of the Silent Gen.
Born in 1980 and this was how I was raised. Don't talk or be in the way, but also be aware and paying attention in case your presence is required. Eventually I was able to convince my parents to let me bring a book with me. Wasn't raised Catholic (though I did do church/Sunday school and then mass with a friend). So I don't think it's a Catholic thing. My parents were born in the 50s so I just assume they were doing what they were raised with. It's absolutely forked up and I'm sorry they experienced that. As a result I have a very active imagination to this day. I also try to avoid my parents and their families. Not just for this, but you know, that didn't help.
I was told that by my grandpa as a kid. My mom hated it, she told me as long as I wasn’t interrupting, I could talk as much as I wanted to.
Did not grow up catholic are heard it a LOT as a child. My parents were born in the 50s, I was born 1985.
I say it to myself every time my child is being a noisy menace.
Heard this, mainly around Catholic families. But I lived in a pretty Catholic heavy area.
I remember this. Children played outside or somewhere away from the adults. You didn’t interrupt or bother adults.
I think it's generational rather than cultural. When my husband (1977) and his sister (1978) would visit their grandparents (1910), they were to be both not seen and not heard. They would get shuffled off to an upstairs bedroom to wait out the visit. This was more Grandpa than Grandma. Neither was Catholic. I remember going to my paternal grandma's house to visit and having to sit there on the couch - silently - while the adults talked. I think it was because Grandma lived in a small duplex and didn't want me wandering around getting into stuff. My maternal grandma lived on a farm, and she encouraged us grandkids to just stay out of the house and find something to explore on the property. She did the same with her kids, but I think that's because she had 7 kids and only had enough bandwidth to parent and be a farm wife. Parenting took a back seat.
This is old school and luckily I didn’t grow up with this. Especially since I’m add and like to talk lol.
generational for sure. same boat as you. mom says all the time that’s how they were taught and it kept them from learning a lot about family history because they weren’t allowed to ask questions or anything and were encouraged to go elsewhere
Also born in’83, and raised Catholic. Parents were about a decade younger than yours, so we’re Young Boomers I suppose. That phrase was repeated throughout my childhood. Doesn’t really answer your question, but figured I’d commiserate.
Born in '82 and my dad said it all the damn time and he was a pretty young dad born in '58. We were Catholic. (I no longer am).
Nope I was born in 85 and that was my house. I would sit and pray every meal that I was quiet enough that my step dad didn’t notice me and that my general table manners were good enough while silently eating my meal that I wouldn’t get my ass beaten at the end of said meal. It’s why I’ve actively tried to foster a household where my kids can express their opinions and be loud and oftentimes super annoying. I don’t want them to feel small and scared like I always did.
I remember hearing this all the time
I still say that. That and "You beta get somewhere and sit down fo I beat ur a**". And of course "Hard head make a soft ass, So get me a switch and don't get no Luh one". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
GenX raised Catholic and heard it allllllll the time.
"Only speak when spoken to" would be better. That way, kids don't interrupt while the adults are talking.
I grew up in a rural area and was told this growing up. However my wife came from an even more rural area and when I told her my parents used to say this she thought it was awful. I'm just chalking it up to asshole parents but thats just my small perspective.
Lol... Imagine Catholics saying " children should be seen and not heard" then being the main culprits with molesting children... How ironic
Generational
It goes back at least to the Victorian era, and likely earlier. It had nothing to do with religion, but was adopted because rich people had nannies and governesses who would keep the kids out of sight all day and have them show up just to say goodnight after dinner before they were whisked back to the nursery for bedtime. Less rich people trying to emulate that got as close as they could by telling the kids to shut up and pretend they weren't in the room.
Catholic here, born 1979, parents born in the 1950s. They never said that. I got the impression it was the kind of thing more to be expected from my grandparents’ generation. They did teach me manners and not to interrupt, though. (Or should I say attempted … I still struggle with it!)
Mom and her little gaggle of nags would say this, but this was in the 70s and she was a hard christian. Spare the rod and spoil the child was also quoted a lot, So the best thing to be was silent in your mischief, and learn how to move without sound. She ended up putting bells on my shoes. The bitch.
Born in 1979, and my parents specifically said that they weren’t going to raise their children that way, and encouraged interaction with adults and sharing thoughts/feelings. Edit: Canada, no religion
Not Catholic, this was common in my family growing up. Parents born in early 50s.
I only got this when I was being a complete and utter smart ass.
I was raised by Protestants in Africa. Definitely used unironically by my grandparents.
Definitely not a catholic thing
My parents are 75 and I’m 43. My parents still think this way.
Born in the 70s. I heard this all the time from my older father. We're definitely not Catholic.
Waaaay not Catholic and this was beat into us.
I've heard the phrase. I was raised catholic. I dunno about origins but it also didn't go far in my family based on a single event. So, when I was a kid, about 7 or so, my parents sold their first house to an older couple. My little brother, 2 at the time, and I were playing and well kids make noise. Dad apparently told us to play quieter once because they had had trouble hating one another and the older man buying the house stopped my dad with "no. It's alright. That's the sound of life and happiness. So what if we have to ask each other to repeat things? That doesn't matter. Let them be children. I knew too many who didn't get to be." and my father agreed. He later told me it had a origins effect on him. The reason it was a profound effect is my father had already noticed that the older gentleman had a number tattooed on his inner forearm. When my father told me the story, he said" that man had seen more than anyone ever should have to see and if what he had learned was that letting kids play was more important, I wasn't going to argue with him. He had learned something far more important than I had and it was my job to learn from him there." Kids were heard a lot in my house growing up.
My parent brutally enforced that saying. Like why tf you have kids if you never want them around.
Born in the early 80s in a Protestant/agnostic home: I was absolutely told this repeatedly.
My parents are not catholic, but in general we werent supposed to speak unless spoken to or if someone asked us a question. (Born 1985). I do remember the phrase you mentioned, but it was presented as being from a previous generation.
It’s a Christian thing. I’ve even seen some weird Bible quotes interpreted to be similar.
My gramma would preach this to the heavens. Definitely not my mother though. Thank goodness.
Probably both honestly.
This and “suffer in silence”… at church and whatnot…
My parents were born in the late 50's, and they weren't that way. I think that is a silent generation thing.
It was a catch phrase from an old W.C. Fields movie which resonated with the boomer generation. He was also known for his phrase " get away kid, ya bother me" He was an old vaudvillian drunk actor of his time.
My grandmother (not Catholic, but born in 1917) used to tell my cousin & I that this was what she was told as a child, but wasn't enforced on us & my own parents (1950 & 1954, also not Catholic) never said it.
I'm just here to say as I was skimming post titles I did a double take because I thought it said "Sean and not heard", and I was like, "What did Sean do to deerve this!"
I'm just here to say as I was skimming post titles I did a double take because I thought it said "Sean and not heard", and I was like, "What did Sean do to deserve this!"
Not catholic or religious at all. What I take from the saying is that when adults are talking, the children should be out doing children things, not around trying to engage in adult conversations. That is how I was taught. My step-daughter, now 17, but has been doing it since about 12, always wants to be around when my wife or I have friends over. I have to constantly tell her to leave the room. We are having adult conversations, not meant for children's ears. My wife is kind of indifferent to it, but it bothers me.
Born 1984, grew up hearing that. It’s held up with my son. I don’t say it a lot, but he knows he is not to interrupt unless it’s an emergency. If he does this, I’ll continue to interrupt him if it’s not an emergency. He doesn’t do it often, but picks up on it when I do it and gets quiet. I then ask, was that rude of me? Should I have waited until you were done? He then apologizes and stays quiet until we are done. The grandparents say, oh it’s fine let him finish. I say no, he needs to learn patience and basic human respect. He has gotten so much better about this. When he goes places without us, his parents, we get compliments in text or a call on how great he is and well mannered, respectful, etc. He’s a good kid overall, looks out for others and responds well and learns from treat others the way you want to be treated.
My parents (born in the 1940s) dealt with this growing up. People were very severe with their kids during that time - at least where we come from. My family is of a Christian background and still practice, but that attitude toward children is not something I EVER dealt with. I was always treated like a little adult and involved in things, made welcome.
As Catholics my grandmother was not a fan of this saying. I recall it heavily in books based around 1850 to early 1920s...Alcott, Wilder, etc. These writers are exclusively protestants but I believe more a product of an era where children where not quite human. To be snarky, the anti child anti natalism trend of now preach the same mentality.
47m - Just heard that expression earlier today. And, quite a bit growing up...
Generational. My family hated Catholics and said it all the time.
My dad said it and was raised Methodist and was an atheist as an adult. He said his parents said it but he didn’t think it was always true. Only sometimes. Idk.
My family was all Mormon and I heard it. I heard a psychologist out someone talking about it. Up until fairly recently in history, parents really didn't even really try bonding with their kids because the mortality rate was so high. So they got to a point where they would basically just ignore them as a person until a certain age and would say "children are to be seen and not heard". It may have been a historian, but definitely generational IMO.
My mom STILL says it!
Yeah my parents used to say this too. I think it’s generational. But also they were assholes.
It was strong in my mother’s family and they were not catholic. They were of Irish decent coal miners in Pennsylvania era (mom born in early 50s). They didn’t go to church but I *think the church of choice for funeral was perhaps Baptist. You are missing part of that phrase my family used: Children are to be seen and not heard….and preferably not seen. That is, until my mom’s baby brother FINALLY had a baby boy 20 years later and all of a sudden there were toys and shit EVERYWHERE. Out of all the girls in the family that boy was definitely the golden child 😒
Found the Milford man
My grandmother and great aunts would say that here and there. I don’t think it’s a Catholic thing as much as an age thing but they WERE all Catholic.