I mean the carrier sure, but it’s not like all the important bits and people can just tank the radiation, right? Sorry I’m not super knowledgeable about these things.
The Bikini Atolls nuke tests, iirc they determined what you're saying. Some people will survive but its a mission kill. Much easier to CBRN shit for a tank than a carrier.
These are all WW2 vessels though, so who knows how a Ford or Nimitz would fare exactly.
Ehh sorta? The hull of the ship is pretty good for protecting those aboard, especially since the vast majority are behind multiple layers of bulkheads. Fallout is a concern, but there's a lot less dirt and solid debris thrown up by a detonation at sea, and modern washdown systems are pretty decent. It depends a LOT on how warned you are and exactly how close it is, but there's somewhat decent odds of a WWII carrier surviving a nearby nuke without a mission kill.
Modern nukes are also more efficient in promoting nuclear fission and have less fallout relative to the mass of the bomb. That doesn’t mean there won’t be radiation but it won’t be as high as say relative to Fat Man or Little Boy.
Not really sure on how well radiation penetrates shit aside from water being a good barrier. Assuming not ground 0 and yield, being 1-2km away is fine I'd assume.
Agreed on what you said though, I'm outta depth on this if we're talking actual specifics lol. I think a EMP focused nuke would probably be best since it'd fry most electronics and the jets caught around it. Since yea, unless its a near direct hit actual frame damage isn't that much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse, not sure on how jets would be affected by EMPs after reading this actually.* Need more than a quick skim which I dont have time for atm lol.
~1/2-1" of steel is enough to cut radiation in half. Given how radiation falls off *real* quick with distance, anyone inside the hull shouldn't suffer any kind of serious issues.
EMPs are massively overhyped by popular fiction, they're really easy to protect against. And warships are the worst target, since they're already designed to be operating in an environment flooded with EM radiation. Remember, modern radar are powerful as fuck.
You'd have to hit on target and rely on the thermal shock plus the air displacement to damage/destroy things, which is why the WWII nukes were detonated above the cities rather than at ground level. Say you detonate the bomb at around 1500 feet, you'll cook whatever's sitting directly below it. Then again... real fleets are usually spread out a fair bit, and wasting a nuke to hit one ship is kinda stupid. A 15 kiloton bomb like the one that destroyed Hiroshima has a blast radius of just 1 mile.
The carrier, yes - though as others have pointed out, the radiation will do no favors for the crew. The escort ships... it depends how close they are to the blast, as modern escort vessels don't tend to have any armor protection. May actually just get crumpled by the blast wave.
That said, Torres wouldn't waste his nukes on the surface fleet anyway. He's a preternaturally talented gunner, he has protagonist level skills (literally, canonically, that's what a singularity is) with a ship gun, he's what Ching Lee could only dream of. If we give him the credit he gets in-universe for his gunnery skills, he will direct-impact everything he shoots at at 500km.
Given how badly Alicorn gets krumped by the fleet's attached submarines if they ever catch a whiff of his sonar trail, it's really only fair to give him every advantage anyway.
Think you're overestimating the blast wave and radiation. Again, this was tried. It's bad for radar and all the fiddly bits, but generally, nothing too serious. Even for unarmored vessels.
It was in WW2
The ships then weren't fully Mission Killed either, you'll notice KMS Prinz Eugen took 2 nukes just start deteriorating beyond surface level.
With modern CBRN systems in place (and doubly so if they have warning) that nuke won't actually do much beyond blinding, killing anyone on deck/by windows and shaking things around. The radar and sensitive bits exposed will be fried, but the ship won't need more than an hour or 2 to return to combat ops. Max.
For reference, this nuclear testing happened in 1945-1962 and they've had the entire cold war (where they were expecting to be nuked) and beyond to come up with probably equipment to combat radiation surges.
They may not actually have sufficient warning for CRBN purposes if the Alicorn manages to slip into comfortable firing range for that monster, depending on just how quickly the it can fire after it surfaces. What I am saying however is that those external electronics may still take significant damage depending on proximity.
More importantly though, what I said otherwise still stands - it's fair to assume that Torres has improbable protagonist tier bullshit gunnery skills, as a canon singularity. It's a bit of a moot point. He doesn't need the nukes, he will bullseye shit. He may lob one just to ensure the Reagan goes down in a single direct hit, but I doubt he'll fire anything but conventional... whatever it is that thing shoots.
> KMS Prinz Eugen
I have to point out that this is wrong on two levels. First off, the Kriegsmarine never used any ship prefix (nor did the Weimar-era Reichsmarine or the East German Volksmarine, though the West German Bundesmarine and current unified German Deutsche Marine use FGS, albeit exclusively for international identification and never internally, and of course the Kaiserliche Marine used SMS/SMU for surface ships and submarines, respectively). Second off, the ship was commissioned into the United States Navy after being taken as war booty as USS Prinz Eugen with the hull number IX-300. Note that this doesn't apply to most other war booty ships like Nagato, as to my knowledge only Prinz Eugen and Horst Wessel (as USCGC Eagle) were commissioned by the United States after being taken.
My apologies. I was aware of both these things, but that knowledge seems to have abandoned me when I was writing the comment lmao
Of course, when I could actually use that info is when my brain skips it 🙄
Nukes can be used as a depth charge, the underwater shockwave would be much more devastating than the surface level blast would be.
Also the 7th fleet would absolutely carry tactical nukes going into a combat deployment.
The shockwave doesn't have much range. Again, this shit was tested at Bikini, it's not that strong.
The 7th Fleet doesn't have nukes. For some reason Japan isn't a huge fan of having American nuclear weapons around. IIRC the Nimitz class isn't even equipped to handle them anyways. The US doesn't really do tactical nukes anymore.
Funnily enough, a single American super carrier has 3 times the airwing of the alicorn, but the damn sub has more than THREE times the tonnage of the entire 7 fleet, the thing weights the same than 10 Yamatos… SURFACED, but the real game changer here are its damn rapid fire rail guns, we already see what they did to the ocean fleet twice, so unless the Americans had a mute super ace on board, torres wins this, mid diff at worst.
Depends how good his intel and sensor data is and whether or not we can find him by submarine picket/satellite/sonar net/ASW patrol first.
If he shoots first, he railguns the fuck out of 7th Fleet's surface assets from a comfortable mid range and the only thing that could save them would be some serious evasive maneuvers and luck, but he still almost certainly dies to the subs unless he can delta the fuck out of there faster than the other assets can ring him in from where he fired.
If he gets found first, he fucking dies and it's not even close. TF74/SUBRON 15's five boats out of Guam introduce him to the joy and wonder of the ADCAP four seven-hundred-pounds-of-kaboom shots at a time each and there's nothing he can realistically do about it because there is zero shot the Alicorn is quieter than a Flight III 688 (which is I believe four of its five, all but *Key West*, a Flight II-VLS). Surface assets just stay clear and out of comfortable shooting distance and let the submarines and land-based aviation (which falls under 7th Fleet's command in the area) punk his ass. If he surfaces in a known location without the element of surprise he gets Harpooned or maybe even Tomahawked in the face (a bunch of TLAMs were modified to readd anti ship capabilities in 2016) by their VLS tubes too.
And that's just 7th Fleet and its attached assets by themselves. SUBRON 1 and SUBRON 7 are right there in Pearl too supplying another dozen subs.
The carrier itself - currently the Reagan - is actually honestly rather irrelevant, as it's basically just a giant and highly expensive, strategically incredibly valuable target that's significantly outranged in practical terms. That is to say, the Alicorn can easily fire from outside the space that the Reagan can sufficiently lock down and submerge before any airborne counterattack reaches it. Railgun travel time is very short and Torres is canonically an almost supernaturally good gunner. The Navy probably wouldn't risk it when it's got far better other assets to fight the Alicorn with, unless it was desperate for more area patrol assets. Hunting subs with surface assets is risky under the best of circumstances, you definitely hunt subs with aircraft - of which the Reagan group only has *some* capable of ASW - and subs and other such assets like satellites and fixed sonar arrays.
So while Torres definitely makes himself CINCPAC's problem, he's largely COMSUBPAC's dragon to slay.
Detailed, and with well laid out arguments on division of responsibility and why the Alicorn isn't the wonder weapon everyone thinks it is. I like it. Get it to the top.
Alicorn is fucking terrifying, actually, especially with Torres in charge of it. If he manages to slip in and out the net and blow up the Reagan group, that's a massive blow, and it's not *inconceivable* that he escapes afterward (especially if we limit his opposition to solely things that fall under the Fleet's direct command), though quite difficult.
It's just that it's not just up against a carrier group. Here it's also up against the thing it's decidedly the worst at - fighting other subs, which are directly attached to the 7th Fleet. It's never going to out-stealth or outrun an attack submarine with its sheer bulk and shape, its unique and powerful arsenal provides it no benefit against other submarines, and there has never been a vessel built that can reliably survive multiple direct hits from sub-launched torpedoes, much less a submarine, which will tend to strongly dislike having its hull integrity threatened while underwater.
So it's up against things that specialize in finding threats just like it, which it cannot win the spotting fight against, and which can easily kill it. In other words, it's fighting things that hard counter it just as much as it theoretically hard counters surface battlegroups.
Now, if its objective is to shell a city with nukes, and not just to kill 7th Fleet, then that's a different story. If its target isn't known, 7th Fleet has no shot of catching it what with all the important cities that it could shoot on the Pacific rim. If its target *is* known, it comes down to just how loud Alicorn's sonar profile is and how fast the fleet and its attached land ASW assets can redeploy.
I mean it weighs 810,000 tons 8x what a ford weighs and is 150 meters longer than the ford, this is going to be loud as hell just from the volume of water it has to move, top speed is listed as 48 mph which is just hilarious and makes no sense but that still slower than an ADCAP which should have no issue tracking something so big especially if it starts moving fast
\>48mph
\>41kts
I categorically refuse to believe that - but if it's true, that *does* make it faster than the *listed* top speed of a 688, and approaching the point of giving an ADCAP range issues, which is a problem in theory. That being said, as the Alfas made abundantly clear, high speed underwater is only sometimes useful.
It may actually allow it to outrun ADCAPs if fired from outside of close range (38km @ 55kts is not ideal for chasing something moving away at 41kts, that's a closure rate of only 14kts yielding a range of under 10km were the Alicorn to start shifting as soon as the torpedo is fired; this is a thing that we worried about during the Cold War for fighting Alfas), but the catch is that if something the size of the Alicorn tries to do 41kts underwater, it'll be so loud fucking SOSUS will be able to hear it all the way out in Iceland - not really, but everything within a *very* wide area will know exactly where it is and where it's going, which in turn will make it actual food for aerial ASW assets.
It may also be worth noting that Alicorn is supposed to be able to operate substantially deeper than any US submarine - its official stats give a maximum operating depth of 600 meters. It seems apparent that this thing's intended defense against any underwater threat is to use its deep operating depth and giant pump jets and get the hell out of dodge. Even moreso since it doesn't actually have any means to attack another submarine while either is submerged.
I don't think that actually does anything, tbh. Torpedoes don't really have a crush depth that's relevant for these purposes, thermal layers don't ever go anywhere near that deep, and while that depth would be good for suppressing cavitation noises from going rather fast, it would do nothing for the flow noise and other sounds. It helped the Alfas substantially, but for something like the Alicorn, cavitation noises are not going to be its biggest contributor to its sonic profile. Not unless the Eruseans conscripted God to do its soundproofing and hullform, which visibly they did not.
Also goddamn I forgot it doesn't even have torpedoes at all. That's *wack.*
~200 meters deeper isn't going to help much against an ADCAP, they are designed to hunt the fastest deepest diving subs the soviets could build, estimated test depth is 800 meters on the ADCAP
Bro the seventh fleet is the biggest modern fleet in the world. It has, at least, 10 Burkes, a CVN, a Tico, an attack sub, an amphibious assault ship and a couple of landing ships. Ain’t no way the Alicorn wins.
Either the seventh fleet wins or Torres escapes.
Torres cannot win.
* If he fires torpedoes, the fleet will find him and respond with ASROC. There is strength in their numbers.
* If Torres fires a cruise missile, the fleet will bring CIWS and ABMD to bear.
* Torres might try to pick them off with its cannon, especially since he has nuclear shells that can kill each ship with a single hit. If it were someone else, I'd say the cannon is too unwieldy to target ships that can move so fast, but Torres is a cannon magician. Still, he has one cannon and so much armor. The seventh fleet will lose one ship but will eventually sink Torres's boat.
To be fair, the alicorn didn’t have nearly all the weaponry that it has now compared to when it was constructed, the railguns are all new, so it isn’t a far off possibility that it also was upgraded with torpedoes, since it definitely has the tonnage to make room for those upgrades.
What where the weapons that the destroyers used against this fucker in its last mission?, asrocs or something like that if I remember correctly, what were exactly, torpedoes? If is that then how much explosives they pack since the monster just tanked 4 In quick succession with only its submersible capability slightly damaged.
VL-ASROC, aka: Vertical-Launch Anti-Sub Rockets.
unguided once they hit the water, they're basically long-range Depth Charges, really; makes me wonder why they didn't use air-drop torpedoes (all the ASW aircraft we escorted in the first half of the mission would be carrying at least one apiece)
False. The RUM-139 VL-ASROC carries the Mk. 46 or Mk. 54 ASW torpedo as its payload. It is a guided torpedo that is designed to hunt submerged vessels. It's the same torpedo that the P-3s would carry.
Fellow Warship Gunner 2 fan!
I think an Alicorn class sub wouldn't feel out of place in a Warship Gunner game. I wish we had a better submarine boss than the Dreadnought and the Nautilus
That's a common misconception.
Torres was carrying nuclear shells, which are limited-yield tactical weapons. The effect of this weapon on countervalue targets, e.g., a city, is catastrophic, but against a fleet, it is worthless. At worst, it can take out a squadron.
Minus the rail cannon the most dangerous things the alicorn has is it's rapid fire railguns which would tear a ship to shreds the semi rapid fire Multi vls that could potentially overwhelm the AA and the barrier drones which would void any damage at all so long as they can tank the hit and being a submarine also makes it so it can force the fleet into Anti sub combat which would mean most of their weapons become practically useless until it surfaces
Simply put the alicorn by nature of design would have vastly superior odds
I mean wardog aka ragriz squadron can take 2 simfaxi class submarine, 2 belkan ace squadron, ark bird, & destroying SOLG.
Now imagine if there is more than 1 Trigger
In real life a single Swedish sub mamanged to defeat an entire us carrier group during military exercise over two years
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
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If Torres doesn’t mind wasting a nuke, then Torres. If he’s adamant about saving both nukes for [wherever], then the 7th Fleet.
Nah, nukes are kinda shit as an anti-ship weapon.
Especially against a carrier, if no one was on deck and you hit a nuke anywhere but the ground zero the carrier has a pretty good chance of surviving
AND continuing on
I mean the carrier sure, but it’s not like all the important bits and people can just tank the radiation, right? Sorry I’m not super knowledgeable about these things.
The Bikini Atolls nuke tests, iirc they determined what you're saying. Some people will survive but its a mission kill. Much easier to CBRN shit for a tank than a carrier. These are all WW2 vessels though, so who knows how a Ford or Nimitz would fare exactly.
Ehh sorta? The hull of the ship is pretty good for protecting those aboard, especially since the vast majority are behind multiple layers of bulkheads. Fallout is a concern, but there's a lot less dirt and solid debris thrown up by a detonation at sea, and modern washdown systems are pretty decent. It depends a LOT on how warned you are and exactly how close it is, but there's somewhat decent odds of a WWII carrier surviving a nearby nuke without a mission kill.
Modern nukes are also more efficient in promoting nuclear fission and have less fallout relative to the mass of the bomb. That doesn’t mean there won’t be radiation but it won’t be as high as say relative to Fat Man or Little Boy.
Not really sure on how well radiation penetrates shit aside from water being a good barrier. Assuming not ground 0 and yield, being 1-2km away is fine I'd assume. Agreed on what you said though, I'm outta depth on this if we're talking actual specifics lol. I think a EMP focused nuke would probably be best since it'd fry most electronics and the jets caught around it. Since yea, unless its a near direct hit actual frame damage isn't that much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse, not sure on how jets would be affected by EMPs after reading this actually.* Need more than a quick skim which I dont have time for atm lol.
~1/2-1" of steel is enough to cut radiation in half. Given how radiation falls off *real* quick with distance, anyone inside the hull shouldn't suffer any kind of serious issues. EMPs are massively overhyped by popular fiction, they're really easy to protect against. And warships are the worst target, since they're already designed to be operating in an environment flooded with EM radiation. Remember, modern radar are powerful as fuck.
You'd have to hit on target and rely on the thermal shock plus the air displacement to damage/destroy things, which is why the WWII nukes were detonated above the cities rather than at ground level. Say you detonate the bomb at around 1500 feet, you'll cook whatever's sitting directly below it. Then again... real fleets are usually spread out a fair bit, and wasting a nuke to hit one ship is kinda stupid. A 15 kiloton bomb like the one that destroyed Hiroshima has a blast radius of just 1 mile.
Weren't the Atoll bombs detonated underwater and not on the surface?
The carrier, yes - though as others have pointed out, the radiation will do no favors for the crew. The escort ships... it depends how close they are to the blast, as modern escort vessels don't tend to have any armor protection. May actually just get crumpled by the blast wave. That said, Torres wouldn't waste his nukes on the surface fleet anyway. He's a preternaturally talented gunner, he has protagonist level skills (literally, canonically, that's what a singularity is) with a ship gun, he's what Ching Lee could only dream of. If we give him the credit he gets in-universe for his gunnery skills, he will direct-impact everything he shoots at at 500km. Given how badly Alicorn gets krumped by the fleet's attached submarines if they ever catch a whiff of his sonar trail, it's really only fair to give him every advantage anyway.
Think you're overestimating the blast wave and radiation. Again, this was tried. It's bad for radar and all the fiddly bits, but generally, nothing too serious. Even for unarmored vessels.
wait, didn't they test them at or below the ocean surface? That kind of makes a difference.
One airburst, one underwater
That's a mission kill even if it doesn't do serious structural damage.
It was in WW2 The ships then weren't fully Mission Killed either, you'll notice KMS Prinz Eugen took 2 nukes just start deteriorating beyond surface level. With modern CBRN systems in place (and doubly so if they have warning) that nuke won't actually do much beyond blinding, killing anyone on deck/by windows and shaking things around. The radar and sensitive bits exposed will be fried, but the ship won't need more than an hour or 2 to return to combat ops. Max. For reference, this nuclear testing happened in 1945-1962 and they've had the entire cold war (where they were expecting to be nuked) and beyond to come up with probably equipment to combat radiation surges.
They may not actually have sufficient warning for CRBN purposes if the Alicorn manages to slip into comfortable firing range for that monster, depending on just how quickly the it can fire after it surfaces. What I am saying however is that those external electronics may still take significant damage depending on proximity. More importantly though, what I said otherwise still stands - it's fair to assume that Torres has improbable protagonist tier bullshit gunnery skills, as a canon singularity. It's a bit of a moot point. He doesn't need the nukes, he will bullseye shit. He may lob one just to ensure the Reagan goes down in a single direct hit, but I doubt he'll fire anything but conventional... whatever it is that thing shoots.
> KMS Prinz Eugen I have to point out that this is wrong on two levels. First off, the Kriegsmarine never used any ship prefix (nor did the Weimar-era Reichsmarine or the East German Volksmarine, though the West German Bundesmarine and current unified German Deutsche Marine use FGS, albeit exclusively for international identification and never internally, and of course the Kaiserliche Marine used SMS/SMU for surface ships and submarines, respectively). Second off, the ship was commissioned into the United States Navy after being taken as war booty as USS Prinz Eugen with the hull number IX-300. Note that this doesn't apply to most other war booty ships like Nagato, as to my knowledge only Prinz Eugen and Horst Wessel (as USCGC Eagle) were commissioned by the United States after being taken.
My apologies. I was aware of both these things, but that knowledge seems to have abandoned me when I was writing the comment lmao Of course, when I could actually use that info is when my brain skips it 🙄
Nukes can be used as a depth charge, the underwater shockwave would be much more devastating than the surface level blast would be. Also the 7th fleet would absolutely carry tactical nukes going into a combat deployment.
The shockwave doesn't have much range. Again, this shit was tested at Bikini, it's not that strong. The 7th Fleet doesn't have nukes. For some reason Japan isn't a huge fan of having American nuclear weapons around. IIRC the Nimitz class isn't even equipped to handle them anyways. The US doesn't really do tactical nukes anymore.
Funnily enough, a single American super carrier has 3 times the airwing of the alicorn, but the damn sub has more than THREE times the tonnage of the entire 7 fleet, the thing weights the same than 10 Yamatos… SURFACED, but the real game changer here are its damn rapid fire rail guns, we already see what they did to the ocean fleet twice, so unless the Americans had a mute super ace on board, torres wins this, mid diff at worst.
So the solution is to tape your best pilot's mouth shut and get him in the air with your best plane.
spray paint a few lines on the tail of their plane too
Depends how good his intel and sensor data is and whether or not we can find him by submarine picket/satellite/sonar net/ASW patrol first. If he shoots first, he railguns the fuck out of 7th Fleet's surface assets from a comfortable mid range and the only thing that could save them would be some serious evasive maneuvers and luck, but he still almost certainly dies to the subs unless he can delta the fuck out of there faster than the other assets can ring him in from where he fired. If he gets found first, he fucking dies and it's not even close. TF74/SUBRON 15's five boats out of Guam introduce him to the joy and wonder of the ADCAP four seven-hundred-pounds-of-kaboom shots at a time each and there's nothing he can realistically do about it because there is zero shot the Alicorn is quieter than a Flight III 688 (which is I believe four of its five, all but *Key West*, a Flight II-VLS). Surface assets just stay clear and out of comfortable shooting distance and let the submarines and land-based aviation (which falls under 7th Fleet's command in the area) punk his ass. If he surfaces in a known location without the element of surprise he gets Harpooned or maybe even Tomahawked in the face (a bunch of TLAMs were modified to readd anti ship capabilities in 2016) by their VLS tubes too. And that's just 7th Fleet and its attached assets by themselves. SUBRON 1 and SUBRON 7 are right there in Pearl too supplying another dozen subs. The carrier itself - currently the Reagan - is actually honestly rather irrelevant, as it's basically just a giant and highly expensive, strategically incredibly valuable target that's significantly outranged in practical terms. That is to say, the Alicorn can easily fire from outside the space that the Reagan can sufficiently lock down and submerge before any airborne counterattack reaches it. Railgun travel time is very short and Torres is canonically an almost supernaturally good gunner. The Navy probably wouldn't risk it when it's got far better other assets to fight the Alicorn with, unless it was desperate for more area patrol assets. Hunting subs with surface assets is risky under the best of circumstances, you definitely hunt subs with aircraft - of which the Reagan group only has *some* capable of ASW - and subs and other such assets like satellites and fixed sonar arrays. So while Torres definitely makes himself CINCPAC's problem, he's largely COMSUBPAC's dragon to slay.
Detailed, and with well laid out arguments on division of responsibility and why the Alicorn isn't the wonder weapon everyone thinks it is. I like it. Get it to the top.
Alicorn is fucking terrifying, actually, especially with Torres in charge of it. If he manages to slip in and out the net and blow up the Reagan group, that's a massive blow, and it's not *inconceivable* that he escapes afterward (especially if we limit his opposition to solely things that fall under the Fleet's direct command), though quite difficult. It's just that it's not just up against a carrier group. Here it's also up against the thing it's decidedly the worst at - fighting other subs, which are directly attached to the 7th Fleet. It's never going to out-stealth or outrun an attack submarine with its sheer bulk and shape, its unique and powerful arsenal provides it no benefit against other submarines, and there has never been a vessel built that can reliably survive multiple direct hits from sub-launched torpedoes, much less a submarine, which will tend to strongly dislike having its hull integrity threatened while underwater. So it's up against things that specialize in finding threats just like it, which it cannot win the spotting fight against, and which can easily kill it. In other words, it's fighting things that hard counter it just as much as it theoretically hard counters surface battlegroups. Now, if its objective is to shell a city with nukes, and not just to kill 7th Fleet, then that's a different story. If its target isn't known, 7th Fleet has no shot of catching it what with all the important cities that it could shoot on the Pacific rim. If its target *is* known, it comes down to just how loud Alicorn's sonar profile is and how fast the fleet and its attached land ASW assets can redeploy.
I mean it weighs 810,000 tons 8x what a ford weighs and is 150 meters longer than the ford, this is going to be loud as hell just from the volume of water it has to move, top speed is listed as 48 mph which is just hilarious and makes no sense but that still slower than an ADCAP which should have no issue tracking something so big especially if it starts moving fast
\>48mph \>41kts I categorically refuse to believe that - but if it's true, that *does* make it faster than the *listed* top speed of a 688, and approaching the point of giving an ADCAP range issues, which is a problem in theory. That being said, as the Alfas made abundantly clear, high speed underwater is only sometimes useful. It may actually allow it to outrun ADCAPs if fired from outside of close range (38km @ 55kts is not ideal for chasing something moving away at 41kts, that's a closure rate of only 14kts yielding a range of under 10km were the Alicorn to start shifting as soon as the torpedo is fired; this is a thing that we worried about during the Cold War for fighting Alfas), but the catch is that if something the size of the Alicorn tries to do 41kts underwater, it'll be so loud fucking SOSUS will be able to hear it all the way out in Iceland - not really, but everything within a *very* wide area will know exactly where it is and where it's going, which in turn will make it actual food for aerial ASW assets.
It may also be worth noting that Alicorn is supposed to be able to operate substantially deeper than any US submarine - its official stats give a maximum operating depth of 600 meters. It seems apparent that this thing's intended defense against any underwater threat is to use its deep operating depth and giant pump jets and get the hell out of dodge. Even moreso since it doesn't actually have any means to attack another submarine while either is submerged.
I don't think that actually does anything, tbh. Torpedoes don't really have a crush depth that's relevant for these purposes, thermal layers don't ever go anywhere near that deep, and while that depth would be good for suppressing cavitation noises from going rather fast, it would do nothing for the flow noise and other sounds. It helped the Alfas substantially, but for something like the Alicorn, cavitation noises are not going to be its biggest contributor to its sonic profile. Not unless the Eruseans conscripted God to do its soundproofing and hullform, which visibly they did not. Also goddamn I forgot it doesn't even have torpedoes at all. That's *wack.*
~200 meters deeper isn't going to help much against an ADCAP, they are designed to hunt the fastest deepest diving subs the soviets could build, estimated test depth is 800 meters on the ADCAP
The only power scalers that I respect 🫡
Neither. A pair of dirty boots will defeat both
one singular plane
The 7th fleet if it's controlled by ignis
Ignis as in the Ignis Corps? The guys with pilots crazy enough to take on alien spacecraft using A1 Sky Raiders? That Ignis?
Yes, that Ignis
Bro the seventh fleet is the biggest modern fleet in the world. It has, at least, 10 Burkes, a CVN, a Tico, an attack sub, an amphibious assault ship and a couple of landing ships. Ain’t no way the Alicorn wins.
The side with the anime and vtuber fan base.
So, both sides?
As a former member of the 7th Fleet, I gotta go with my homies.
Either the seventh fleet wins or Torres escapes. Torres cannot win. * If he fires torpedoes, the fleet will find him and respond with ASROC. There is strength in their numbers. * If Torres fires a cruise missile, the fleet will bring CIWS and ABMD to bear. * Torres might try to pick them off with its cannon, especially since he has nuclear shells that can kill each ship with a single hit. If it were someone else, I'd say the cannon is too unwieldy to target ships that can move so fast, but Torres is a cannon magician. Still, he has one cannon and so much armor. The seventh fleet will lose one ship but will eventually sink Torres's boat.
> If he fires torpedoes He actually can't do this. Alicorn has many weapons systems, but it doesn't have any torpedo tubes.
Pretty ironic for a submarine.
To be fair, the alicorn didn’t have nearly all the weaponry that it has now compared to when it was constructed, the railguns are all new, so it isn’t a far off possibility that it also was upgraded with torpedoes, since it definitely has the tonnage to make room for those upgrades.
What where the weapons that the destroyers used against this fucker in its last mission?, asrocs or something like that if I remember correctly, what were exactly, torpedoes? If is that then how much explosives they pack since the monster just tanked 4 In quick succession with only its submersible capability slightly damaged.
VL-ASROC, aka: Vertical-Launch Anti-Sub Rockets. unguided once they hit the water, they're basically long-range Depth Charges, really; makes me wonder why they didn't use air-drop torpedoes (all the ASW aircraft we escorted in the first half of the mission would be carrying at least one apiece)
False. The RUM-139 VL-ASROC carries the Mk. 46 or Mk. 54 ASW torpedo as its payload. It is a guided torpedo that is designed to hunt submerged vessels. It's the same torpedo that the P-3s would carry.
ohh! thank you for the correction! ✨
As long as the Alicorn crew doesn't start singing, they'll never be heard.
OR a lone British frigate with a lot of enigma tech installed and armed with anything that can annihilate the fleet
Fellow Warship Gunner 2 fan! I think an Alicorn class sub wouldn't feel out of place in a Warship Gunner game. I wish we had a better submarine boss than the Dreadnought and the Nautilus
Deep down, I wished we could have captured the Alicorn, given it can launch planes, the LRSSG could have used it as it's own personal mobile base.
Nuclear weapons tend to be good anti-everything
That's a common misconception. Torres was carrying nuclear shells, which are limited-yield tactical weapons. The effect of this weapon on countervalue targets, e.g., a city, is catastrophic, but against a fleet, it is worthless. At worst, it can take out a squadron.
The answer. Borders!
Definitely the BOAT : Bullshit Of All Time
The Alicorn's railgun would pretty much decimate the entire Seventh Fleet for sure. But the question is, is it stronger than Metal Gear REX's railgun?
A proofreader.
Amen
The Seventh Fleet was what it took to get Torres to hand over the anime.
Minus the rail cannon the most dangerous things the alicorn has is it's rapid fire railguns which would tear a ship to shreds the semi rapid fire Multi vls that could potentially overwhelm the AA and the barrier drones which would void any damage at all so long as they can tank the hit and being a submarine also makes it so it can force the fleet into Anti sub combat which would mean most of their weapons become practically useless until it surfaces Simply put the alicorn by nature of design would have vastly superior odds
Made the effort to make the meme can’t make the effort to not give me a stroke with that shit grammar
The US Navy have no mute pilot but they have someone else for that place that is....... Captain Pete 'Maverick' Mitchell
7th Fleet : *laughs in UUM-44 SUBROC*
Is that the Scinfaxi or the Alicorn?
this is a race between every carrier pilot in seventh fleet vs every SSN captain in seventh fleet to sink it
I take the second option.
The raving homeless guy who lives in a society.
I mean wardog aka ragriz squadron can take 2 simfaxi class submarine, 2 belkan ace squadron, ark bird, & destroying SOLG. Now imagine if there is more than 1 Trigger
In real life a single Swedish sub mamanged to defeat an entire us carrier group during military exercise over two years https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
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The plane that hit the twin towers, it beat won against a tower then it wouldn't have a problem taking out a boat.
Mute psycho flying a plane would win.
Hand over the anime Torres
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Literally Coughing baby versus Hydrogen Bomb moment