You’re not wrong.
When I first got married, I had some seriously debt from a past relationship and I didn’t expect my newly married wife to help pay it off. I sacrificed and worked hard and paid it off. My wife and I share a checking account, but have our own separate accounts for our personal “hobbies.” It’s works out much better that way for us.
It’s not your obligation.
Well yes and no. Ethically it might not be, legally (in many countries) married means fiscal partners. Be careful with how you navigate this OP, if he goes into delinquency you may be liable.
Assets and debt acquired before marriage aren't liable. There are some rules about how much money the spouse of a homeowner has put into the house, but those vary by state. Google rules about division of property+state name.
I agree, you’re not wrong. Something that everyone should talk about before they get married, though. If you’re going to keep finances separate, make sure each person knows going into the marriage.
Your pastor told him that, but did the two of you discuss it directly and come to an agreement?
You can’t rely on your church’s counsellor to communicate for you
Ummm, if you're actually looking for our collective permission/blessing to be rethinking this relationship, you have it. Reminds me of abusers who wear a mask, are on best behavior, till they think they've got you hooked/trapped and then reveal their ugly true selves. He did the same financially with this bait-&-switch.
Gonna guess love? Doesn’t mean she’s gotta love his credit score. I saved over 30k, bought a car for myself and one for my daughter, IN CASH and my husband knows nothing about any of the details. We have a “Ask if you want, but I ain’t telling you squat” kind of agreement, and get along beautifully. 💰💰💰
When you get married you usually are “in it together “ This is like the weirdos that are married but split bills 50/50 with one spouse literally writing checks to the other for family bills
That has nothing to do with the question I asked, u/westcoastnick.
This is someone who incurred HIS OWN debt before he and OP were "in it together."
So I ask again, how is OP "assigning" the debt he incurred to him?
You marry into whatever they have going on in their life. Family ,health , mental isssues and financial situation. THAT IS NOW YOUR BUSINESS AND LIFE also. Their debt is your concern kinda like their mom … you aren’t like “I’ll marry you , but I want nothing to do with your mom “.
If $100 of savings bother him , you guys must be on a tight budget. See if he can work a bit more . Sure it’s nice to get debt paid off but as long as you make the payments it goes away
Marriage is literally a business decision lmao. Yes we attach the romantic ideals to it, but really legal marriage offers protections and perks that simply living together do not.
Combining or not combining finances makes absolutely no difference? One is not better or worse. Focusing on/binding/releasing worldly possessions seems like it wouldn't affect the "one flesh" at all unless one took strife with it? And in that case it's the person with the issue - not the situation that's an issue..
On one hand, you should probably go into marriage understanding that your finances and debts are functionally combined and you SHOULD support each other in clearing debts and saving for a future together.
On the other hand, setting aside $100 a paycheck towards said future and helping to pay down debts are not mutually exclusive and can both be done, depending on your finances.
On the third hand, depending on his attitude, I'm not 100% certain that he wasn't trying to fish for a stable wife with better money management than he's had in life to make up for his shortcomings.
To summarize, I think you SHOULD help to clear the overall finances in theory, as refusing to do so makes it sound like you don't really think of your marriage as something long-term that you plan on carrying into old age together; BUT if he seems like he's on a fast track to becoming your second ex-husband, I can see why you wouldn't be too keen on dumping your finances into his debt, to no benefit of your own.
Not wrong. He’s a grown ass man, he needs to handle the consequences of his actions. You’re neither his banker nor his mother. It’s especially important for you to keep your savings away from him because a marriage only works when both partners are contributing the same. If you let him start using you now, it will only exacerbate the problem.
NTA. He needs to grow up. You owe him nothing. He is middle aged and needs to be accountable. I am in myn40's and have my finances under control. My bf doesnt. I won't marry him ever..I am not going to be responsible for him. I can ask for him to help with bills but I won't do the joint account thing. I am not taking on none of his responsibilities. He is lucky he has got someone as awesome as me and has someone to help him with living expenses. His kids and car insurance and cell-phone are personal expenses and I don't get involved. All I ask is his part of utilities and we go halves. I honestly won't even buy his dinner unless I feel like it and I don't ever ask him for anything, but I don't volunteer to pay for anything either.
You are not wrong. Those are his debts and his debts alone. Might I suggest three accounts. One for each of you and one you both contribute equally or proportionally to for the shared expenses like the house and utilities? You do what you want with your money and he pays his debts with his and if he is smart he will save a little too. Date nights and vacations come out of the joint account. It is not fair for hm to expect you to pay for his debts that he caused before you married him. If it were a divorce, most courts would not make one pay the other’s debts if the debts were created before the marriage. If the courts see it as fair that way, then he needs to also.
You posted the same thing in r/marriage 92 days ago. And you have made several posts about your spouse’s financial difficulties. It sounds like you regret your marriage and are going to lose out on certain benefits (like collecting SS retirement funds based on your ex’s salary).
You also both quit your corporate jobs to live in an RV.
Are you sure you want to stay married to someone who wants to spend what remains of your money on his debts? Who makes you feel bad for how you spend and save?
If the marriage is important to both of you, it’s time for a serious talk and some financial counseling. With the amount of debt he has $70k per year between the two of you is not enough to ever pay off his $100k student loan much less high interest credit. He will have to bite the bullet and return to the corporate world and put every spare penny towards his debt. That’s the only way out. Even a bankruptcy—which would affect both of you—won’t erase his student loan.
I’ve learned that usually the person accusing someone of being selfish, is actually the selfish one. You don’t have to pay off any of his debt. But y’all should have talked about this before getting married. Go meet with a financial planner and together work on a plan to get him out of debt.
Why wasn’t this a conversation before marriage? You’re both wrong for that. If you’re both still counting pennies from your pre-marriage days, what’s the point of being married at all?
This!!! Thank you!!! I buy my grown kids stuff and if he doesn't ask, I'm not telling. Problem is he wants to know my account #'s and says I'm hiding things from him. Not doing it!!
I think there are 3 kinds of money in a marriage: joint money, spouse #1 money, and spouse #2 money.
The joint money is all the things shared like rent/mortgage, groceries, utilities, etc and my belief is that those should be divided based on income. Spouse 1 makes twice what spouse 2 makes, so pays twice as much of the joint bills (2/3 for the mathy folks). If vacations etc are important, both should contribute in the same way imo.
Everything that's left over is to pay individual debts etc.
That said, if your spouse is struggling and it doesn't hurt you to help, then help. That's one of the tenets of marriage. Imagine you were struggling to keep everything paid, and your spouse decided to buy a fancy watch because they have the money laying around...you'd feel neglected and maybe even betrayed while also being happy the spouse got something that made him/her happy.
If marriage isn't the best example of "do unto others....:, I don't know what is.
Ok. So totally nw. But lemme paint a picture of what you can expect. My dad is horrific with money. Can't budget to save his life. He delegates that to my mom so she shoulders the entire burden. And because she shoulders it all he lives his life happy as a clam with his alotted monthly retirement "allowance" she gives him while mom scrimps, saves, and pays all the bills. Shes. Fucking. Miserable. Dad married his 2nd wife very fast because he *cannot* and has *never* lived as a bachelor. He went from his mom's, to his ex wife at 18(and in the navy), to my mom and never spent a single moment without a woman in charge of his finances. Never.
I love my parents. But my dad is highly flawed and mom loves him too much to leave. He wants you to shoulder his burden for him. While yes, as you're well aware spouses do often share finances and its debts not to this extent they don't. I have been with my own husband since i was 17. I went to college and took on 30k in student loan debts before marriage. Even when i was unemployed i did not expect him to pay my loans back for me. Even though weve been together 16 years, married for almost 8, not once have i even considered asking him to take on a debt that is entirely mine that i brought into the marriage with me. Even though he makes nearly 2xs as much as i do, i will NEVER ask him to pay my loans. Its *mine*. I'm the dumbass who took them out. *Im* The dumbass who got a job that didnt pay enough. Me,myself and i did this stupid thing and i alone need to pay them back.
Now. I want you to take a good hard look at what this situation has wrought. A man who is, honestly, *jealous* his wife has fun money and savings and instead of working harder to cut the debts down is resorting to *name calling* like the overgrown kid he is when he doesnt get his way. Can you seriously live, and retire, with this degrading attitude for the rest of your life? You have only one. Dont be miserable like my mom, stressing yourself into an early grave by agreeing to help pay down his debts for him. Hes a grown man nearing retirement, if he hasnt figured out how finances work at this stage hes going to drag you down with him when neither ofn you can work and you'll end up hating him for it.
You're not wrong. Realistically, he should be grateful that he has someone to share bills with because that means he has more of his earnings to put towards paying off his debt.
I have a partner (we do not live together) who struggles with a gambling addiction, and we have very strict boundaries regarding any debt he accrues. He currently has two high-interest loans that he is paying off. We talk about it when he needs to, and I help him budget and plan if he asks, but I do not and will not pay off his debts. Getting to this point has been rocky – we've been together off and on for nine years, and I made the mistake of loaning him a lot of money once early on – but, this is what has to happen if he wants to be with me. He knows that and, more importantly, he respects me enough to insist on taking full responsibility for himself, his addiction and his debt.
Not wrong. Your husband is wildly entitled! As someone else said, saving 100 a month is not a lot so asking you to sacrifice a small savings amount due to his poor choices is pretty shitty.
My wife brought 8k of debt to the tax man into our marriage, I helped her fight it and got it down to 3k (was loads of late payment fees and she is diagnosed autistic which is classed as a disability so we were able to challenge it) but she pays it herself on a payment plan every month. I’m the one who calls and makes the payment cause she’d absolutely forget but it’s her money.
I could comfortably pay it off for her, she’d never let me even if I tried, she knows it’s her fault and her poor choices that led to it.
See, this is why people need “mad money”. So if he irritates you enough and you get mad, you can leave. My mom taught me that and all the girls in our family had a little money put back.
Correct.
I don’t want to help you pay off the debt you brought to the marriage.
Also I will not be doing that.
Very astute honey. Good observations. Totally on the mark.
Lol no not at all. That’s outrageous and kind of manipulative in my book. And if he persisted I’d honestly start questioning his motives for finding a wife.
Your his wife, not his banker. Not his mother. Not his father. You owe him nothing. Ask him next time so what are you marrying me for? A partnership, someone to enjoy life with and because you enjoy our time and moments we share? Or because you just need a bail out?
Why didn’t you discuss finances and obligations BEFORE getting married? It’s kind of important to be on the same page about it
He’s more wrong, but you’re both wrong for not thoroughly discussing something so fundamental before getting married
Some people have no financial sense. He needs to consolidate his credit card debt into a lower interest rate loan. I would see a financial counselor to plan for retirement You need to save money because otherwise you will never be able to retire.
I'd ask him what he is doing to get out of debt? Is he still using his credit cards for discretionary purchases? I expect so. Has he got a second job or side hustle to help? Probably not. Without some serious effort, he won't get out of debt. Tell him you would also economize to make it easier for him, but you are adding that addional money to your own savings, not to his repayment.
You can support him, without giving him money. Cancel subscriptions, cable and eating out. Apply that savings directly to high interest repayments. But, he has to be willing to do more than his share.
Stick to your guns about your own independent financial goals.
You guys each need your own accounts and you each put your portion of shared bills into a joint account. Because I can already see that he is going to be spending out of the joint like crazy
Separate your accounts! Women should never combine finances fully. You can have a joint account and one with just your name. Do NOT let some dingus man screw your retirement. It does not matter if you love that dingus. It's only been 50 years since we could even get our own accounts in the first place. Don't give in to that petulant man baby. Keep. Saving. Invest, get an IRA or two. Credit card in your name only for emergencies.
I have all that, before we got married. I have a good amount in investments from selling my home from my previous 30 year abusive marriage so this time I was smart by keeping my accounts MINE, he will not have access to those! That money goes to my grown sons when I die, his name isn't on any of them! We also have life insurance on both of us so it's not like he will be left with nothing. He's just a grown ass man baby that thinks his wife's money is his, and it's not! Period! 2nd marriages don't get that luxury sorry!
Jumping in to say 2nd marriages have a higher rate of divorce than first marriages.
Financial problems are the 2nd biggest cause of divorce.
Good luck.
The thing is, if he were to drop dead tomorrow, the creditors wouldn't give a rats ass that he had the debts before you got married, they would just know you are his wife, and they woild hold you responsible.
Marriage is about being a team.
As a team you should both have a plan for what to do about your financial situations.
The issue isn't who's debt or who's savings account the money should go to, the issue is neither if you have a plan to deal with the reality of the situation.
Just winging it and thinking the other is wrong is a recipe for a 2nd divorce.
Probably depends on the state, but if the debts came into the marriage with him, she wouldn’t be liable for them. Creditors could come after his estate, but with the other financial details, I’m pretty confident assuming they don’t have any community property.
True, they come from the estate. But who controls the estate? She does. And anything acquired during the marriage could be considered part of his estate.
She may not be liable for every dollar, but the creditors are not simply going to leave her alone.
Either way, ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away isn't the basis for a stable marriage.
The most any creditor could take would be his half of community property. Again, if all she can save is $100 every payday and he’s got crippling debt, I really, really doubt they have any joint assets.
Yes, it’s ideal to be a team in marriage, but I don’t think convincing OP to throw her *very small savings* after her husband’s debt is a good idea.
Sounds like you should have talked this thru beforehand…. But generally speaking, he’s responsible for his own debt, especially if your name is not on his card.
Watch "how to get rich," on Netflix together. (It's about marital money management, not get rich quick.)
Open some dialog about money and spending. You'll probably relate to a few couples and get some tips with how to discuss. Both try to be Open minded rather than accusatory
Why on earth would you get into a second marriage with no financial incentive? Thats so dumb.
If you have any brains you will divorce now before you get saddled with this guys debt. You are old enough to know that love has nothing to do with government contracts.
You’re not wrong. He spent. He can pay. It’s his debt.
Sounds like the payments come out of the household income anyways. I’d stack more than $100. Or whatever you pay for his spending habits is matched for you. Make it cash and give it to someone you completely trust. Totally trust to hold it.
The next conversation will be your greater amount of retirement money. IMO.
You’re to generous.
I find it so strange so many people here are claiming to be OK paying off their partners debt that they accumulated prior to meeting you. I imagine even if i had debt, it was not my partners problem to resolve but my own to clear it.
I suppose for me it depends on the reason why for those debts.
I mean maybe paying for a sick parent medical care, yes.
Reckless unnecessary spending or gambling. No.
Especially because they've already enjoyed that spending and are now paying the consequences. Now they're expecting their partner to not o ly help pay it off but also sacrifice enjoying their money!
Not wrong … but I hope you have this agreement in writing or discussed with a lawyer.
If he died would the debt be yours? If you divorced? If he defaulted?
You are not wrong at all and time to get a post-nup and look into how marital assets and debt is divided in a divorce in your state.
In my state (MN) any debt or property or $ you had BEFORE marriage is yours in the event of a divorce. Anything gained WHILE married is shared.
Talk to a family law attorney stat.
I'm in Texas, it's the same law as in your state. I researched all of this before marriage, just in case things went south. He won't get any of my retirement investments as they are in my sons account to protect me.
You're not wrong. Married 14 years here, and my husband and I have separate bank accounts. That's where our income goes. His own, my own. We opened a joint account about 4 years into our marriage, and we both put what we can into that account as a fun fund. If one of us wants to use the money in the joint account for a purchase over $100, we just talk about it. Most of the time, we use that money when we get a chance to travel or buy Christmas presents for our niece, nephews, want to try a fancy restaurant. I highly recommend this! Finances are a big point of contention for a lot of couples, and it makes things so much easier.
It would be different if you offered to help your husband or if he asked lol He's just calling you selfish for being more financially responsible! That's ridiculous. Sounds like he thinks his money is his money, and your money should also be his money. Nope.
You're not responsible for getting him out of debt.
That’s why I did a prenup. Second marriage at older age is what’s I brought in is mine and what he brought in is his. No I would never pay a man’s bills and he’s not much of a man to expect you to pay his debt.
He brought this debt with him into the marriage you did not help him accumulate that debt so why would you pay it off. He must have thought that you were going to help him pay this debt off let him know that's not going to happen. And like you said you do not want to be his retirement plan sit down and have a conversation with him because this seems like it's going to be a big problem in your marriage. I don't understand and he needs to make it make sense to you why he feels that you should pay off or help him pay off his debt that he accumulated probably most likely before he even met you.
How serious is he about the debt he carries? Taking the bus and packing a lunch? extra jobs? Selling expensive luxuries to raise cash? No fancy car, just a basic transport car? Cutting up the credit cards and not getting new ones? If he isn't consistently doing this, he's not serious. Tell him so.
Why should a woman pay off a man's debt? It's his job to pay of his own and also take care of you. Some men in this generation have become truly pathetic.
My wife had 25k in debt in credit cards, we paid them off together because I didn't want to bring that in to the marriage. We've been married and debt free for 14 years.
Stick to your savings . You will need it that sounds coercive to me they are not your debts . He can clear them if he sincere I know men who use debt as an excuse to leach other people and not pay maintenance and all sorts of stuff.
Not wrong. After reading another comment, I too looked at your post history. This marriage isn’t a good one for you, and it sounds like you may be repeating unhealthy patterns from your past.
Marriages later in life where you each have your own kids are very different, financially, from marriages in your 20s, where both partners are just starting out.
Your husband is manipulating and using you. That doesn’t mean he isn’t also attracted to you or that he doesn’t enjoy your company. But, he obviously isn’t concerned with your long term well being. At best, if he’s not consciously malicious, and just a terrible planner and doesn’t understand consequences, he’s dragging you down to his level (broke), where you will be forever.
Unless that sounds like a happy future to you, consider cutting your losses and moving on now.
It's not your obligation. Protect your interests. He will get you in serious financial trouble if you are not vigilant and may leave you high and dry and broke.
Tell him that he's the selfish one begging you to pay off HIS credit cards that he brought into the marriage, that HE accumulated debt before marriage.
Ask him how are you the selfish one?
Also, btw, you may want to discontinue that joint checking account because I'm not sure he won't delve into those funds for a little assistance to pay off his credit cards.
Imagine, if grown,divorced adults discussed this before marrying for a second time...joint account for joint expenses, seperate accounts for everything else.
His prior debt is his responsibility. He accumulated without you present the only factor which I may consider reason to help was if he was financially abused by his prior spouse unknowingly having cards opened and debt accumulated. But regardless of the circumstances around the debt you are entitled to have your own personal fund for what you want
I am the only one who works in my marriage and I made damn sure my wife has 200 of my biweekly check direct deposited into her account so she can spend on what she wants and have the ability to not be concerned I will ask what she bought.
Our shared account is for our bills which are from our marriage and I have my separate account which I pay my student loans out of and also buy gifts with.
Having separate accounts and savings is not a bad thing it allows independence and also makes it easier to buy gifts and treats without having to explain the withdraw. As long as you both know the funds available in the event of a major financial emergency (car accident, medical bill, family emergency)
And the current financial needs are being met then the rest is on him to sort out.
To be frank this guy needs a reality check and to acknowledge that his prior mistakes are separate Especially if from his previous marriage
Thank you so much for validating my feelings on this! I wish I could get him to see our joint bills like food etc are separate from our own debts. He just thinks we should pool all our money together even though he spends all of it and gives me no money of my own to save. We are talking to a counselor tomorrow to hopefully sort through all this cause I'll be damned if I'm paying off his loans before my own!
Are you married for life or not?
When you got married his debt became your debt.
If he is paying high interest it makes sense to pay it off to save more long term.
Yes, you are wrong.
Would you feel the same way if he was your first husband? To me, when you get married you become a legally bound team. His debts are your debts. You need a budget which pays his debts, reins his spending and allows you your own money.
You married a man and promised to be there for him through thick and thin, sickness and health and financially too. That’s the deal. If you didn’t want to care for him financially why did you get married?
They're your debts now to, you should work together to get rid of them asap, Ramsay style. Then save together, plan together. It's the same deal even if you keep your bank accounts separate.
This is why ur on a second marriage.
You are not wrong, you might be an idiot but not wrong for not wanting to pay off his debts.
Now that you are married, God debts become yours if he passes. Additionally what will retirement look like if you have spending money, and he does not. Either you'll end up paying for everything so it's a moot point, you'll end up not doing things so what's the point in saving the money, or you'll end up doing things without him so what's the point of being married.
You are wrong. A marriage is a team. If it was your first marriage and you both had student loan debt would you help pay his and vice versa? You actually are each other's retirement plan lol. Unless he is reckless financially then you should help and he should if the roles were reversed. Is it not in your best interest to be a debt free couple and then start saving together for each other's retirement 🤔
Depending on the amount of debt, they may not be able to pay it off before retirement.
IMO. He should look into possibly a personal consolidation loan/program.
That will change interest rates, it will be 1 bill, not multiple, and it may even come with some debt forgiveness.
That is an okay solution ad long as the spending issues have been addressed. The assumption of marriage is a lifetime commitment, so the couple will be in debt until both sides bills are paid. Benefits the marriage for them to pay whatever is needed to get the debt resolved asap.
You are not wrong , at all. BUT marriage is a team and if debts are paid off faster by your generosity, it might be a pretty good solution and a true partnership. Look I totally get your POV, you’re responsible and he wasn’t , but isn’t it better to assist each other and have each others back? Just a thought . Obviously I’m on your side
You’re not wrong. When I first got married, I had some seriously debt from a past relationship and I didn’t expect my newly married wife to help pay it off. I sacrificed and worked hard and paid it off. My wife and I share a checking account, but have our own separate accounts for our personal “hobbies.” It’s works out much better that way for us. It’s not your obligation.
Well yes and no. Ethically it might not be, legally (in many countries) married means fiscal partners. Be careful with how you navigate this OP, if he goes into delinquency you may be liable.
In the US, if you come into a marriage with debt, it's yours alone in case of divorce. OP needsto continue to save money for herself.
Really? That seems strange, because assets are divided, why wouldn't debts be? Do you have a link to read about this?
Assets and debt acquired before marriage aren't liable. There are some rules about how much money the spouse of a homeowner has put into the house, but those vary by state. Google rules about division of property+state name.
Divorce law is the same in every state?
No, but as a general rule, it pretty much applies. YMMV.
No. Each state has its own laws
I agree, you’re not wrong. Something that everyone should talk about before they get married, though. If you’re going to keep finances separate, make sure each person knows going into the marriage.
He calls you selfish for not paying for his debts. I have a feeling this issue will continue to cause a great deal of conflict with this marriage.
Why would you go into a second marriage with someone drowning in high-interest debt?
I was wondering if they discussed their financial situation before marriage.
We went to premarital counseling and our pastor told him ITS HIS DEBT! Now he is a master manipulator and it's my fault for not seeing the signs
Your pastor told him that, but did the two of you discuss it directly and come to an agreement? You can’t rely on your church’s counsellor to communicate for you
Ummm, if you're actually looking for our collective permission/blessing to be rethinking this relationship, you have it. Reminds me of abusers who wear a mask, are on best behavior, till they think they've got you hooked/trapped and then reveal their ugly true selves. He did the same financially with this bait-&-switch.
Hmmmmm....Time to think about separating?
Time for your exit strategy
Get a rich 3rd husband, and you will be set.
Hopefully OP was smart enough to get a prenup
Gonna guess love? Doesn’t mean she’s gotta love his credit score. I saved over 30k, bought a car for myself and one for my daughter, IN CASH and my husband knows nothing about any of the details. We have a “Ask if you want, but I ain’t telling you squat” kind of agreement, and get along beautifully. 💰💰💰
Love ? I am guessing. But apparently not enough to help him with debt she assigned to him.
"Assigned to him?" What debt did she "assign" to him? Seems it's his own debt that he brought into the marriage.
Read better, comment less
Yes please.
This comment deserves an award, and should be used A LOT on Reddit, in many threads.
>debt she assigned to him. Huh? Debt that *he* had previous to their marriage.
How did OP "assign" her husband *his own debt* u/westcoastnick?
When you get married you usually are “in it together “ This is like the weirdos that are married but split bills 50/50 with one spouse literally writing checks to the other for family bills
That has nothing to do with the question I asked, u/westcoastnick. This is someone who incurred HIS OWN debt before he and OP were "in it together." So I ask again, how is OP "assigning" the debt he incurred to him?
You marry into whatever they have going on in their life. Family ,health , mental isssues and financial situation. THAT IS NOW YOUR BUSINESS AND LIFE also. Their debt is your concern kinda like their mom … you aren’t like “I’ll marry you , but I want nothing to do with your mom “.
He enjoyed whatever he brought to be in debt NOT you. It’s his debt for a reason. Keep stashing your $100 and tell him to shush.
Make it $200. His debt is not your responsibility.
If $100 of savings bother him , you guys must be on a tight budget. See if he can work a bit more . Sure it’s nice to get debt paid off but as long as you make the payments it goes away
You are not wrong, not in the least. Hang on to some financial independence. No woman ever regrets that.
Premarital asserts are separate. At least in my mind, so are premarital debts.
Sounds like you wanna go into a business interact with your spouse and not an actual loving “one flesh “ marriage.
Too late. We’ve been married 50 years and we are debt free.
Happy Cake Day 🥳🎂
Marriage is literally a business decision lmao. Yes we attach the romantic ideals to it, but really legal marriage offers protections and perks that simply living together do not.
Combining or not combining finances makes absolutely no difference? One is not better or worse. Focusing on/binding/releasing worldly possessions seems like it wouldn't affect the "one flesh" at all unless one took strife with it? And in that case it's the person with the issue - not the situation that's an issue..
On one hand, you should probably go into marriage understanding that your finances and debts are functionally combined and you SHOULD support each other in clearing debts and saving for a future together. On the other hand, setting aside $100 a paycheck towards said future and helping to pay down debts are not mutually exclusive and can both be done, depending on your finances. On the third hand, depending on his attitude, I'm not 100% certain that he wasn't trying to fish for a stable wife with better money management than he's had in life to make up for his shortcomings. To summarize, I think you SHOULD help to clear the overall finances in theory, as refusing to do so makes it sound like you don't really think of your marriage as something long-term that you plan on carrying into old age together; BUT if he seems like he's on a fast track to becoming your second ex-husband, I can see why you wouldn't be too keen on dumping your finances into his debt, to no benefit of your own.
We dont have 3 hands
Speak for yourself.
THANK YOU!! I get soooo tired of people forgetting the third hand!!
You're right, we don't have 3. We have 5 if you get really creative.
You’ve never read Larry Niven’s The Mote in God’s Eye. You totally should, it’s excellent.
Not wrong. He’s a grown ass man, he needs to handle the consequences of his actions. You’re neither his banker nor his mother. It’s especially important for you to keep your savings away from him because a marriage only works when both partners are contributing the same. If you let him start using you now, it will only exacerbate the problem.
Absolutely not. He bestowed that debt on his own. Makes me wonder why he wanted to marry you.
NTA. He needs to grow up. You owe him nothing. He is middle aged and needs to be accountable. I am in myn40's and have my finances under control. My bf doesnt. I won't marry him ever..I am not going to be responsible for him. I can ask for him to help with bills but I won't do the joint account thing. I am not taking on none of his responsibilities. He is lucky he has got someone as awesome as me and has someone to help him with living expenses. His kids and car insurance and cell-phone are personal expenses and I don't get involved. All I ask is his part of utilities and we go halves. I honestly won't even buy his dinner unless I feel like it and I don't ever ask him for anything, but I don't volunteer to pay for anything either.
You are not wrong. Those are his debts and his debts alone. Might I suggest three accounts. One for each of you and one you both contribute equally or proportionally to for the shared expenses like the house and utilities? You do what you want with your money and he pays his debts with his and if he is smart he will save a little too. Date nights and vacations come out of the joint account. It is not fair for hm to expect you to pay for his debts that he caused before you married him. If it were a divorce, most courts would not make one pay the other’s debts if the debts were created before the marriage. If the courts see it as fair that way, then he needs to also.
You are not wrong. I hope you have a prenup.
NTA He spent the money, he can pay it off.
You posted the same thing in r/marriage 92 days ago. And you have made several posts about your spouse’s financial difficulties. It sounds like you regret your marriage and are going to lose out on certain benefits (like collecting SS retirement funds based on your ex’s salary). You also both quit your corporate jobs to live in an RV. Are you sure you want to stay married to someone who wants to spend what remains of your money on his debts? Who makes you feel bad for how you spend and save? If the marriage is important to both of you, it’s time for a serious talk and some financial counseling. With the amount of debt he has $70k per year between the two of you is not enough to ever pay off his $100k student loan much less high interest credit. He will have to bite the bullet and return to the corporate world and put every spare penny towards his debt. That’s the only way out. Even a bankruptcy—which would affect both of you—won’t erase his student loan.
I’ve learned that usually the person accusing someone of being selfish, is actually the selfish one. You don’t have to pay off any of his debt. But y’all should have talked about this before getting married. Go meet with a financial planner and together work on a plan to get him out of debt.
Why wasn’t this a conversation before marriage? You’re both wrong for that. If you’re both still counting pennies from your pre-marriage days, what’s the point of being married at all?
This!!! Thank you!!! I buy my grown kids stuff and if he doesn't ask, I'm not telling. Problem is he wants to know my account #'s and says I'm hiding things from him. Not doing it!!
I think there are 3 kinds of money in a marriage: joint money, spouse #1 money, and spouse #2 money. The joint money is all the things shared like rent/mortgage, groceries, utilities, etc and my belief is that those should be divided based on income. Spouse 1 makes twice what spouse 2 makes, so pays twice as much of the joint bills (2/3 for the mathy folks). If vacations etc are important, both should contribute in the same way imo. Everything that's left over is to pay individual debts etc. That said, if your spouse is struggling and it doesn't hurt you to help, then help. That's one of the tenets of marriage. Imagine you were struggling to keep everything paid, and your spouse decided to buy a fancy watch because they have the money laying around...you'd feel neglected and maybe even betrayed while also being happy the spouse got something that made him/her happy. If marriage isn't the best example of "do unto others....:, I don't know what is.
There’s a lot of bad and incorrect advice in here. It’s rather disturbing.
Ok. So totally nw. But lemme paint a picture of what you can expect. My dad is horrific with money. Can't budget to save his life. He delegates that to my mom so she shoulders the entire burden. And because she shoulders it all he lives his life happy as a clam with his alotted monthly retirement "allowance" she gives him while mom scrimps, saves, and pays all the bills. Shes. Fucking. Miserable. Dad married his 2nd wife very fast because he *cannot* and has *never* lived as a bachelor. He went from his mom's, to his ex wife at 18(and in the navy), to my mom and never spent a single moment without a woman in charge of his finances. Never. I love my parents. But my dad is highly flawed and mom loves him too much to leave. He wants you to shoulder his burden for him. While yes, as you're well aware spouses do often share finances and its debts not to this extent they don't. I have been with my own husband since i was 17. I went to college and took on 30k in student loan debts before marriage. Even when i was unemployed i did not expect him to pay my loans back for me. Even though weve been together 16 years, married for almost 8, not once have i even considered asking him to take on a debt that is entirely mine that i brought into the marriage with me. Even though he makes nearly 2xs as much as i do, i will NEVER ask him to pay my loans. Its *mine*. I'm the dumbass who took them out. *Im* The dumbass who got a job that didnt pay enough. Me,myself and i did this stupid thing and i alone need to pay them back. Now. I want you to take a good hard look at what this situation has wrought. A man who is, honestly, *jealous* his wife has fun money and savings and instead of working harder to cut the debts down is resorting to *name calling* like the overgrown kid he is when he doesnt get his way. Can you seriously live, and retire, with this degrading attitude for the rest of your life? You have only one. Dont be miserable like my mom, stressing yourself into an early grave by agreeing to help pay down his debts for him. Hes a grown man nearing retirement, if he hasnt figured out how finances work at this stage hes going to drag you down with him when neither ofn you can work and you'll end up hating him for it.
You're not wrong. Realistically, he should be grateful that he has someone to share bills with because that means he has more of his earnings to put towards paying off his debt. I have a partner (we do not live together) who struggles with a gambling addiction, and we have very strict boundaries regarding any debt he accrues. He currently has two high-interest loans that he is paying off. We talk about it when he needs to, and I help him budget and plan if he asks, but I do not and will not pay off his debts. Getting to this point has been rocky – we've been together off and on for nine years, and I made the mistake of loaning him a lot of money once early on – but, this is what has to happen if he wants to be with me. He knows that and, more importantly, he respects me enough to insist on taking full responsibility for himself, his addiction and his debt.
Not wrong. Your husband is wildly entitled! As someone else said, saving 100 a month is not a lot so asking you to sacrifice a small savings amount due to his poor choices is pretty shitty. My wife brought 8k of debt to the tax man into our marriage, I helped her fight it and got it down to 3k (was loads of late payment fees and she is diagnosed autistic which is classed as a disability so we were able to challenge it) but she pays it herself on a payment plan every month. I’m the one who calls and makes the payment cause she’d absolutely forget but it’s her money. I could comfortably pay it off for her, she’d never let me even if I tried, she knows it’s her fault and her poor choices that led to it.
See, this is why people need “mad money”. So if he irritates you enough and you get mad, you can leave. My mom taught me that and all the girls in our family had a little money put back.
OP, depending on the state where you live, you may have assumed his debt when you married him. See an attorney.
Correct. I don’t want to help you pay off the debt you brought to the marriage. Also I will not be doing that. Very astute honey. Good observations. Totally on the mark.
Lol no not at all. That’s outrageous and kind of manipulative in my book. And if he persisted I’d honestly start questioning his motives for finding a wife. Your his wife, not his banker. Not his mother. Not his father. You owe him nothing. Ask him next time so what are you marrying me for? A partnership, someone to enjoy life with and because you enjoy our time and moments we share? Or because you just need a bail out?
Why didn’t you discuss finances and obligations BEFORE getting married? It’s kind of important to be on the same page about it He’s more wrong, but you’re both wrong for not thoroughly discussing something so fundamental before getting married
Some people have no financial sense. He needs to consolidate his credit card debt into a lower interest rate loan. I would see a financial counselor to plan for retirement You need to save money because otherwise you will never be able to retire.
Not wrong. His debt, he's responsible for it.
I'd ask him what he is doing to get out of debt? Is he still using his credit cards for discretionary purchases? I expect so. Has he got a second job or side hustle to help? Probably not. Without some serious effort, he won't get out of debt. Tell him you would also economize to make it easier for him, but you are adding that addional money to your own savings, not to his repayment. You can support him, without giving him money. Cancel subscriptions, cable and eating out. Apply that savings directly to high interest repayments. But, he has to be willing to do more than his share. Stick to your guns about your own independent financial goals.
You guys each need your own accounts and you each put your portion of shared bills into a joint account. Because I can already see that he is going to be spending out of the joint like crazy
Separate your accounts! Women should never combine finances fully. You can have a joint account and one with just your name. Do NOT let some dingus man screw your retirement. It does not matter if you love that dingus. It's only been 50 years since we could even get our own accounts in the first place. Don't give in to that petulant man baby. Keep. Saving. Invest, get an IRA or two. Credit card in your name only for emergencies.
I have all that, before we got married. I have a good amount in investments from selling my home from my previous 30 year abusive marriage so this time I was smart by keeping my accounts MINE, he will not have access to those! That money goes to my grown sons when I die, his name isn't on any of them! We also have life insurance on both of us so it's not like he will be left with nothing. He's just a grown ass man baby that thinks his wife's money is his, and it's not! Period! 2nd marriages don't get that luxury sorry!
Jumping in to say 2nd marriages have a higher rate of divorce than first marriages. Financial problems are the 2nd biggest cause of divorce. Good luck.
The thing is, if he were to drop dead tomorrow, the creditors wouldn't give a rats ass that he had the debts before you got married, they would just know you are his wife, and they woild hold you responsible. Marriage is about being a team. As a team you should both have a plan for what to do about your financial situations. The issue isn't who's debt or who's savings account the money should go to, the issue is neither if you have a plan to deal with the reality of the situation. Just winging it and thinking the other is wrong is a recipe for a 2nd divorce.
Probably depends on the state, but if the debts came into the marriage with him, she wouldn’t be liable for them. Creditors could come after his estate, but with the other financial details, I’m pretty confident assuming they don’t have any community property.
True, they come from the estate. But who controls the estate? She does. And anything acquired during the marriage could be considered part of his estate. She may not be liable for every dollar, but the creditors are not simply going to leave her alone. Either way, ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away isn't the basis for a stable marriage.
The most any creditor could take would be his half of community property. Again, if all she can save is $100 every payday and he’s got crippling debt, I really, really doubt they have any joint assets. Yes, it’s ideal to be a team in marriage, but I don’t think convincing OP to throw her *very small savings* after her husband’s debt is a good idea.
Sounds like you should have talked this thru beforehand…. But generally speaking, he’s responsible for his own debt, especially if your name is not on his card.
Watch "how to get rich," on Netflix together. (It's about marital money management, not get rich quick.) Open some dialog about money and spending. You'll probably relate to a few couples and get some tips with how to discuss. Both try to be Open minded rather than accusatory
Why on earth would you get into a second marriage with no financial incentive? Thats so dumb. If you have any brains you will divorce now before you get saddled with this guys debt. You are old enough to know that love has nothing to do with government contracts.
You’re not wrong. He spent. He can pay. It’s his debt. Sounds like the payments come out of the household income anyways. I’d stack more than $100. Or whatever you pay for his spending habits is matched for you. Make it cash and give it to someone you completely trust. Totally trust to hold it. The next conversation will be your greater amount of retirement money. IMO. You’re to generous.
I find it so strange so many people here are claiming to be OK paying off their partners debt that they accumulated prior to meeting you. I imagine even if i had debt, it was not my partners problem to resolve but my own to clear it. I suppose for me it depends on the reason why for those debts. I mean maybe paying for a sick parent medical care, yes. Reckless unnecessary spending or gambling. No.
Especially because they've already enjoyed that spending and are now paying the consequences. Now they're expecting their partner to not o ly help pay it off but also sacrifice enjoying their money!
Not wrong … but I hope you have this agreement in writing or discussed with a lawyer. If he died would the debt be yours? If you divorced? If he defaulted?
You’re not wrong! Hope you have the prenup. You deserve to have your own money.
You are not wrong at all and time to get a post-nup and look into how marital assets and debt is divided in a divorce in your state. In my state (MN) any debt or property or $ you had BEFORE marriage is yours in the event of a divorce. Anything gained WHILE married is shared. Talk to a family law attorney stat.
I'm in Texas, it's the same law as in your state. I researched all of this before marriage, just in case things went south. He won't get any of my retirement investments as they are in my sons account to protect me.
Get a divorce. It’s not going to get better.
You're not wrong, but in my eyes, why live together and get married if you are not going to conquer stuff together.
Sounds like a match made in Heaven.
Nurse with a Purse 👜 no thanks
You're not wrong. Married 14 years here, and my husband and I have separate bank accounts. That's where our income goes. His own, my own. We opened a joint account about 4 years into our marriage, and we both put what we can into that account as a fun fund. If one of us wants to use the money in the joint account for a purchase over $100, we just talk about it. Most of the time, we use that money when we get a chance to travel or buy Christmas presents for our niece, nephews, want to try a fancy restaurant. I highly recommend this! Finances are a big point of contention for a lot of couples, and it makes things so much easier. It would be different if you offered to help your husband or if he asked lol He's just calling you selfish for being more financially responsible! That's ridiculous. Sounds like he thinks his money is his money, and your money should also be his money. Nope. You're not responsible for getting him out of debt.
That’s why I did a prenup. Second marriage at older age is what’s I brought in is mine and what he brought in is his. No I would never pay a man’s bills and he’s not much of a man to expect you to pay his debt.
Stick to your guns. What you are doing is 100% okay. Do not give in. Tell him to get fucked
What's a checking account?
Did he discuss his debt picture with you before marrying you?
He brought this debt with him into the marriage you did not help him accumulate that debt so why would you pay it off. He must have thought that you were going to help him pay this debt off let him know that's not going to happen. And like you said you do not want to be his retirement plan sit down and have a conversation with him because this seems like it's going to be a big problem in your marriage. I don't understand and he needs to make it make sense to you why he feels that you should pay off or help him pay off his debt that he accumulated probably most likely before he even met you.
How serious is he about the debt he carries? Taking the bus and packing a lunch? extra jobs? Selling expensive luxuries to raise cash? No fancy car, just a basic transport car? Cutting up the credit cards and not getting new ones? If he isn't consistently doing this, he's not serious. Tell him so.
NTA You’re not obligated to pay off his bad decisions :) Stay strong otherwise you’ll end up in povertyZ
tbh as long as you’re not gonna expect that he helps you with HIS money then you’re not wrong. you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Why should a woman pay off a man's debt? It's his job to pay of his own and also take care of you. Some men in this generation have become truly pathetic.
My wife had 25k in debt in credit cards, we paid them off together because I didn't want to bring that in to the marriage. We've been married and debt free for 14 years.
Oh sweet summer child, have no fear for soon your husband will start accumulating debt that he will ultimately make you responsible for.
Stick to your savings . You will need it that sounds coercive to me they are not your debts . He can clear them if he sincere I know men who use debt as an excuse to leach other people and not pay maintenance and all sorts of stuff.
Did he marry you for love or to pay off HIS debts? Some marriage counselling may be needed here. Good luck op.
Not wrong. After reading another comment, I too looked at your post history. This marriage isn’t a good one for you, and it sounds like you may be repeating unhealthy patterns from your past. Marriages later in life where you each have your own kids are very different, financially, from marriages in your 20s, where both partners are just starting out. Your husband is manipulating and using you. That doesn’t mean he isn’t also attracted to you or that he doesn’t enjoy your company. But, he obviously isn’t concerned with your long term well being. At best, if he’s not consciously malicious, and just a terrible planner and doesn’t understand consequences, he’s dragging you down to his level (broke), where you will be forever. Unless that sounds like a happy future to you, consider cutting your losses and moving on now.
It's not your obligation. Protect your interests. He will get you in serious financial trouble if you are not vigilant and may leave you high and dry and broke.
You aren’t wrong. They’re HIS debts, not yours.
This is why I will never comingle funds. Like you, I have worked hard. He can too
Honey unless you have a prenup and/or an irrevocable trust, you ARE his retirement plan. That’s what marriage is. You DO share his debts.
Not wrong. His debts are prior to you. Therefore they are his to deal with. Tell that man you are not his wallet.
Tell him that he's the selfish one begging you to pay off HIS credit cards that he brought into the marriage, that HE accumulated debt before marriage. Ask him how are you the selfish one? Also, btw, you may want to discontinue that joint checking account because I'm not sure he won't delve into those funds for a little assistance to pay off his credit cards.
Your not wrong.
Imagine, if grown,divorced adults discussed this before marrying for a second time...joint account for joint expenses, seperate accounts for everything else.
I can't believe that you didn't discuss this before you got married
His prior debt is his responsibility. He accumulated without you present the only factor which I may consider reason to help was if he was financially abused by his prior spouse unknowingly having cards opened and debt accumulated. But regardless of the circumstances around the debt you are entitled to have your own personal fund for what you want I am the only one who works in my marriage and I made damn sure my wife has 200 of my biweekly check direct deposited into her account so she can spend on what she wants and have the ability to not be concerned I will ask what she bought. Our shared account is for our bills which are from our marriage and I have my separate account which I pay my student loans out of and also buy gifts with. Having separate accounts and savings is not a bad thing it allows independence and also makes it easier to buy gifts and treats without having to explain the withdraw. As long as you both know the funds available in the event of a major financial emergency (car accident, medical bill, family emergency) And the current financial needs are being met then the rest is on him to sort out. To be frank this guy needs a reality check and to acknowledge that his prior mistakes are separate Especially if from his previous marriage
Thank you so much for validating my feelings on this! I wish I could get him to see our joint bills like food etc are separate from our own debts. He just thinks we should pool all our money together even though he spends all of it and gives me no money of my own to save. We are talking to a counselor tomorrow to hopefully sort through all this cause I'll be damned if I'm paying off his loans before my own!
Are you married for life or not? When you got married his debt became your debt. If he is paying high interest it makes sense to pay it off to save more long term.
Well you should have figured all that out before getting into another marriage.
Yes, you are wrong. Would you feel the same way if he was your first husband? To me, when you get married you become a legally bound team. His debts are your debts. You need a budget which pays his debts, reins his spending and allows you your own money. You married a man and promised to be there for him through thick and thin, sickness and health and financially too. That’s the deal. If you didn’t want to care for him financially why did you get married?
You were wrong to marry him. This was stupidity on your part.
Marriage was a bad idea then. What did you expect? Imo, you're a perfect couple
They're your debts now to, you should work together to get rid of them asap, Ramsay style. Then save together, plan together. It's the same deal even if you keep your bank accounts separate. This is why ur on a second marriage.
Who is making the tech for deepfaking and why?
You are not wrong, you might be an idiot but not wrong for not wanting to pay off his debts. Now that you are married, God debts become yours if he passes. Additionally what will retirement look like if you have spending money, and he does not. Either you'll end up paying for everything so it's a moot point, you'll end up not doing things so what's the point in saving the money, or you'll end up doing things without him so what's the point of being married.
You are wrong. A marriage is a team. If it was your first marriage and you both had student loan debt would you help pay his and vice versa? You actually are each other's retirement plan lol. Unless he is reckless financially then you should help and he should if the roles were reversed. Is it not in your best interest to be a debt free couple and then start saving together for each other's retirement 🤔
Depending on the amount of debt, they may not be able to pay it off before retirement. IMO. He should look into possibly a personal consolidation loan/program. That will change interest rates, it will be 1 bill, not multiple, and it may even come with some debt forgiveness.
That is an okay solution ad long as the spending issues have been addressed. The assumption of marriage is a lifetime commitment, so the couple will be in debt until both sides bills are paid. Benefits the marriage for them to pay whatever is needed to get the debt resolved asap.
You are not wrong , at all. BUT marriage is a team and if debts are paid off faster by your generosity, it might be a pretty good solution and a true partnership. Look I totally get your POV, you’re responsible and he wasn’t , but isn’t it better to assist each other and have each others back? Just a thought . Obviously I’m on your side