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The fact the “pro-life” party cant see what the repercussions will be from this are appalling. Increased infanticide, increased homelessness, increased domestic violence against women, increased suicides of pregnant women, even more neglected kids and kids put in the system, and so much more. This is catastrophic.
They know, and they don't give a shit. They are happy about those horrific consequences because that's "punishment" for having sex, which is all they really care about. They are absolute monsters without a single shred of empathy. Ironically, most people who get abortions are Christians, but then they go the "the only moral abortion is my abortion" route and continue to shit on other women for being "sluts." They are vile.
Yep, they always say to not do it and stuff. Teachers at my sisters school even tried to get my sister to sign some abstinence pledge or something before “sex ed”, or she would have to write a big paper, probably as some stupid punishment. They probably didn’t talk about sex at all, just about how it is not allowed and some very vague stuff about it.
Sex ed in catholic school entailed some wacko blasting his knees out slamming them on the ground free falling to pray every class. We would hear it around the building. Told we would go to hell if part of an abortion.
He had almost ten children.
It had the opposite effect, I never wanted to be religious. Fundamentalist are nutcases on every spectrum
That’s creepy. I wonder if they keep that list of signatures and will try to enforce it with some type of secret policing. It seems we’re headed into the dark ages or Taliban type of rule.
I used to think it was a little much to think they just want to punish women for having sex. I thought they were coming from a genuine, albeit naive, place of care for unborn children. Then a post from r conservative came up on the popular page shortly after Roe v Wade was killed. I scrolled through the comments and was absolutely floored and horrified by the things I read. I kept scrolling thinking there would only be a couple bad ones and there HAD to be some sane people somewhere in the thread. I was so taken aback. They really do just hate women. They hate women for having sex and they just want to see them suffer. It was actually insane. I realized I was the naive one for thinking they were trying to express what they thought was the compassionate option. But holy fuck, it's all hate, hate, and HATE
Exactly, those men miss the days when they had sex with ANY woman they wanted-a hooker, stripper, dancer, schoolgirl, servant, wife, slave-and the woman paid the ENTIRE price. Men were never condemned for sex outside of marriage. We women got too sneaky with our reproductive rights and so we can actually say NO to them and they don't like that at all.
No, wait: It’s punishment for *Women* having sex. No punishments for men who won’t take no for an answer. No punishments for men who refuse to wear a condom. No punishments for men who wash their hands and walk away. Only the women. Just like in the Bible they refuse to read but insist on beating the rest of us with - the woman caught in adultery was about to be stoned. The man was nowhere to be found, nor did they give him a second thought.
I wonder if they will ban neonatal testing, since the results sometimes lead couples to pursue an abortion. The rate of Down syndrome has plummeted in the last few decades. Are they going to be willing to hire more special education teachers to address the higher number of kids with special needs in schools? Are the people waiting on lists to adopt white babies (because of the "shortage" in meeting the "demand") willing to also adopt a baby with special needs?
Yeah, pro life only cares about what happens before birth, nothing after. I think the whole pro life thing could be reasonable if they wanted to help those who are already alive as well as those who weren’t born yet.
If you tell me you're anti abortion but you adopted / fostered some kids, or you're financially supporting a struggling parent, I can respect that. Otherwise, you're just an ass.
And rape rates will likely go up. If casual sex starts not being a thing anymore because of the lack of abortion, and (possibly) them taking away plan B + birth control- what woman would want a baby with a one night stand or a casual hookup she met on tinder? I mean I’m sure there’s some out there, but likely most women wouldn’t want that for themselves. So they’re going to hold out from having sex and some men who won’t take no for an answer will just take it from them. And On the flip side, I doubt men of one night stands/ hookups would want to pay child support or raise a kid that was a result of hooking up with a stranger. But these conservatives will just argue “sex for recreation bad, sex for procreation good, keep ur legs shut wh0re” 🙄
They see it and they are thrilled. Evangelicals want to push the world into oblivion to usher in the rapture. The GOP is a death cult, living their lives only for the ending of it.
I already saw an article from them titled "women will thrive post roe v wade" going on about "now we won't have abortion propaganda forcing women to think abortion is their only option due to finances" like no, there's women who literally don't want kids. It's not just about being broke. Even if "adoption is an option", we shouldn't have to be forced to go through a potentially life threatening experience. I'm trying to get my uterus removed because I have a high chance of ectopic pregnancies due to my endometriosis and ovarian cysts. Even if I entirely avoid sex, rape can happen to anyone.
They see it. The decision was made for pain and misery. The cruelty is the point. They want everyone who they see as lesser and undesirable, who doesn't follow their way of life, to suffer. Always remember cruelty is the point.
>*The fact the “pro-life” party cant see what the repercussions will be*
Sorry bud, It's more likely that you are the one that can't see that they very much can see the repercussions.
They probably see it when they close their eyes and they see it their dreams.
And they absolutely fucking love it.
The anti-choice party is comprised of some of the dumbest human beings to ever attempt to walk and chew gum at the same time. It breaks down like this:
* Complete Morons (<85 IQ): ~90%
* Followers and the Intellectually Lazy: ~9%
* The Pure Evil (psychopaths, the rich, etc): 1%
if i got pregnant and couldnt get an abortion for real i'd just starve myself until i miscarried
edit: muting the comment isn’t working— so pls just stop replying to it. it’s been months, nobody’s opinion is really that interesting. either way, if i’m ever that desperate not to give birth i certainly won’t be focused on minutiae
exactly. osteoporosis is treatable & dentures exist. glad to know my.. strained relationship.. with food might do some good if the future rly is this bleak
They really are! They will suck every nutrient out of your body, not realizing they can be killing their own host. All that matters is their growth and viability
I did this. I was hoping to miscarry, both to save myself the money of paying for an abortion because I was a broke college student, and to avoid my narcissist mother finding out. I did everything I wasn’t supposed to. Only getting 4 hours of sleep a night, hardly any food, excessive smoking and drinking - I wasn’t even a smoker before. I prayed the stress would induce a miscarry. I had dropped 20lbs by the time I made it to my appointment, and because I had no idea when it was conceived, I almost missed my window. I’m glad to be in a blue state, but I’m so scared for everyone who will go through that pain and fear.
I asked my doctor what I would do during a routine check up if it was to happen and she went stone cold and said, well I can’t say this with any seriousness but hypothetically speaking if it did you could stop your iron supplements and with your anemia the fetus would die of hypoxia before you faced any serious complications from it.
Yes, that specific section is for "[The Suppression Of The Courses](https://ibb.co/Sm9mmBK)". In essence he writes about how you can bring about a missed menses, which was the polite way of passing on detailed knowledge on recipes & use of herbal abortifacients/contraceptives...
Pretty interesting read. Ben concludes with the following advice for the ladies: "...nor must they long for pretty fellows, or any other trash whatsoever" :)
Man, it's so much harder than you might imagine. I think 1/3 of early pregnancy ends in miscarriage, but once the damn thing is past a certain point it's holding on with everything it has. If that fetus could shut you down and force you to hibernate for 40 weeks, while still getting the bare minimum necessary for survival, it would. (Re: brain fog, all consuming exhaustion, non existent digestive movement to extract every single fucking nutrient the parasite can manage)
I tried to end a pregnancy once. Took massive doses of every potential abortifacient I could for WEEKS. I was vomiting, feverish, weak, collapsing at work. Literally felt like I was going to die before I ever saw the end of that nightmare. Finally had to give up and pay for an abortion.
0/10
As someone who had HG for most of my pregnancy. A fetus will not miscarry because the host isn't eating. The fetus will always get nutrients, even if you aren't taking any in. You'll just make yourself suffer and possibly cause physical harm/damage to yourself in the process.
Just a fun FYI in case this ever happens. My half brother's baby mom was in the severe depths of
Anorexia when she got pregnant with their first child. She started to restrict as soon as she found out because the fear of getting fat hit her hard. He didn't know this was happening. She ended up not miscarrying as she had intended but thinking she had...so afterwards she continued her insane eating habit of 2 grapes a day and a cotton ball soaked in orange juice while they mourned the "loss". 22 weeks later she goes into labor, this dumb bitch rushed herself to the ER thinking she was dying of appendicitis but gave birth. The poor kid hasn't left a hospital in 11 years. The mother is so ashamed she doesn't go to visit the kid anymore and hasn't in years. It's fucking sad. But the problems she has are all caused from fetal survival through the mom's starvation. Kid's got heart issues, lung function issues where she's on oxygen 24/7, she has something akin to type 1 diabetes because her pancreas doesn't function properly, she's had dialysis already and she's only 11. And the last I talked to my half brothers mom she was having to be potty trained again because she started having bladder issues and they had to start her back to pull ups. She has visible facial deformities and slight mental retardation. It's just all around a shit situation for the kid. She's such a sweet and happy little girl too, it crushes me. I'm pro choice and have had an abortion myself before, I don't say that in a sense like, "oh the kids sweet, all kids are great and a blessing", I just say it as it sucks for her quality of life because of that happening.
So, moral of the story is. Starvation doesn't always work. You'd probably die before the fetus would. There are herbal ways out. They're not hard to research. It's better than being stuck in a situation like this one and paying child support to a hospital because your kid you didn't intend to have lives there lol. Plus, starving sucks. You go bald and your teeth hurt.
it's less like "the baby sucking nutrients out of its mom" and more like "physiology operating according to its drunken slapshod process of evolutionary programming" but yea
My grandmother had a good friend who died via coat hanger abortion. They found her dead in a bathtub. I had an older woman tell me she was never able to have kids after the local butcher took care of her problem. A woman my great aunt knew died because the local butcher caused an infection, and the woman was too scared to tell the dr’s at the hospital why she was sick, she was afraid of going to prison. So she just died. Some people believe abortion is new. It’s not. Ancient Romans often drowned their babies in pools. Natives had herbs that would cause miscarriage. Abortion is very old.
Ancient Romans used an herb called Silphium both as a contraceptive and to induce miscarriage. They also used it as an aphrodisiac and cure-all, but it was known as the most effective birth control at the time. It was so popular, they ate the plant into extinction before the fall of the Roman Empire.
[Doesn't it come from two swans bending their necks?](https://www.google.com/search?q=swans+bending+necks+into+heart+shape&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALiCzsbPAx7DbPMDyJ43gzAu0NtiK5kIiQ:1656285143720&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirhI39nsz4AhWwh_0HHajLB88Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ)
According to the sources I found, it seems like it only grew in one region in North Africa, and only in the wild on a single 125 mile strip of land. The Greeks tried growing it in Greece, but it wouldn't flower there. All other attempts to cultivate it apparently failed. There are some theories as to why, like the plant may have been a hybrid with non-viable seeds. The last known plant was sent to Emperor Nero around AD50, but since we're unsure exactly what the Silphium plant actually was, its speculated that it may not have gone entirely extinct and could still exist today.
Is there no depictions or descriptions? It would be cool to bring this plant back from extinction.
Wouldn't be the first time a thought to be - long gone plant was revived. Undoubtedly much harder if it was not a seed bearing plant.
I believe the only surviving depiction is on [coins from the ancient North African city of Cyrene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silphium_(antiquity)#/media/File:Magas_as_Ptolemaic_governor,_first_reign,_circa_300-282_or_275_BC_Didrachm.jpg), where silphium exports made up the majority of the economy. From Wikipedia:
>The exact identity of silphium is unclear. It is commonly believed to be a now-extinct plant of the genus Ferula, perhaps a variety of "giant fennel". The extant plants Margotia gummifera and Ferula tingitana have been suggested as other possibilities. Another plant, asafoetida, was used as a cheaper substitute for silphium, and had similar enough qualities that Romans, including the geographer Strabo, used the same word to describe both.
So it seems the issue is that even if we saw the plant today we couldn't be positive it's silphium.
I wouldn't doubt if there's some isolated populations out there! I wonder if modern people even actually know what it looks like. Maybe we know it as some rare species that we don't realize it has those effects. I'd bet people nowadays could cultivate it, many difficult plants can be grown in captivity. The hardest are ones that require specific mycorrhizae and bacterias, but people are even figuring that out.
When you’re not on the plains, dying young, babies dying, and maybe not having enough nutrients to even ovulate sometimes, a baby every few years that actually lives very quickly adds up.
Yes. Its so ridiculous when people say "well don't have sex if you don't want a baby" because the fact is that many many people are in long term relationships or marriages. Should they just never have sex again? Because there is not a single birth control that is 100% besides abstinence.
And good luck telling a man to abstain who is Pro-Life.
Marital rape wasnt outlawed in many states until 1993.
And many churches teach girls from a young age that it's never rape if it's with your husband and God wills it on you.
Yeah these assholes don't even see the irony in being that guy that demands regular sex as a condition of continuing the relationship while simultaneously believing you as the woman should be stuck baring the consequence of having said sex. Like that alone makes them a complete asshole not even worthy of a partner- don't fuck republicans ladies, and god fucking forbid never get into a relationship with someone even remotely right-leaning. They literally give ZERO shits about you.
I mean there’s even “the bitter water” in the Bible so yes the Bible references abortions. Aside from all the babies that God killed that were already born…
The old testament (and their the Jewish faith) contains precise instructions for when an abortion is allowed and how to do it.
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
They used to refer to it as menstrual control and not abortion in many place. It was normal to induce a period with herbals and activities, thereby flushing the uterus. It’s been around for a very long time.
Neither is infanticide, unfortunately. I remember a video about mabiki - a euphemism for infanticide in Japan - that basically refers to population control and was more or less pacified by religious beliefs that if a child is young enough they haven’t lived long enough for their soul to root, so they’ll just come back when the time is right. I’m sure some of it was to help ease the morality of, yknow, killing a baby, but it was often out of pure necessity as in the original post that they just couldn’t handle another child.
My great-grandmother married at 16 and had my grandmother a year later. The birth was so traumatic that after she got pregnant again, she rode a horse hard, every day, until it fell out.
I will die on this hill: A very small percentage of childfree people might regret their decision to be childfree. A shit load of parents regret their decision to have kids in real time.
Same. I know 100% I’ll be miserable if I have kids. Do I know, in advance, there will be a time when I’m 62, that I think “it would be great to have adult children join us for this trip/holiday/etc.”… yes; I know I will have those moments. Will that 2-3 minutes of wanting a big family to share that specific moment with, outweigh the 20+ years of my life being completely dedicated to them and not my own interests, career, and sex life… NOPE. I will not regret it.
The sad part, the people who want abortions would be horrible with kids, they don't want to put effort in taking care of them. If I were them, I'm gonna have to suck it up and bust my ass at work, just like my mom did for 3 kids not speaking english.
Right. That is the thing about childfree people. I think there are a handful that are self aware about personal issues, that would make them a terrible parent… mental health issues, or maybe they have become abusive in a relationship so they avoid relationships and don’t want children, etc.
Most childfree people, however, know what it takes to be a great parent, and 1) could not imagine providing less than the absolute best to a child, feeling cruel that you wouldn’t be able to give them that due to finances/career choice/family situation/part of the world you live in/etc… or 2) we have the means and support system that could provide the best life for a kid, but would resent it and do not want to spend our money and time on raising a child, but on ourselves and our partners.
I am number 2). That might sounds selfish to some people. But explain to me any choice in life you make, to make yourself happy/financially stable/more attractive/etc that didn’t have an opposite choice that would serve other people better. Having children is just as selfish as not having the … it is about what YOU want to do with your life. I am just honest that living for another human being won’t make me happy.
Many people who have abortions either already have kids and just recognize they can’t afford to take care of more, or they go on to have children later and are just not at a life stage where they can have children.
And even if you had adult kids to join you, they might want to do different activities anyway. I know the types of trips my husband and I take are pretty different from the types of trips and vacation activities my parents enjoy. That's why you find friends to go on vacations with instead. One of my mom's friends is in her 60's, divorced, and has no kids. She travels with her friends, who are generally also single with no kids. They have a blast, and go to places people who had kids usually can't afford because they spent so much of their money raising kids. Instead of investing it, or saving it for retirement, it went into college funds.
I was walking out of target this morning and a woman was walking in, and I don't know what it was about her exactly that struck me? But she just had this like, stressed out, at-the-end-of-her-rope, misery thing going on. She looked a little unwell, like she hadn't been taking care of herself, and when we made eye contact I felt how tired she was.
There were 3 kids under the age of 6 in and around the basket, and you could tell they were not making this woman's life easy.
I'm not saying that she regrets being a mother, but in that moment I'm rolling out of target with cat litter, some toiletries and a cute mug, everything about her screamed that she'd trade places with me in a heartbeat.
Right. I absolutely believe, there will be a time, 25 years from now, sitting around the table at a holiday meal, she will be thrilled with her life… provided none of those children have contracted a terminal illness/become a drug addict/died in a drunk diving incident/still live at home and rely fully on her/is in prison for rape, murder, whatever/etc etc.
But even if things are absolutely perfect in 25 years… and how many families can say that… you have to ask yourself was the 20+ years of struggle, sacrifice, pain, emotional damage, financial pressure… worth that lovely moment?
I think for all of us here, the answer is NOPE.
It isn’t that there is zero potential for s happy future family. It is that even if you achieve that magical gold medal, was it worth the journey. None of use would work 12 hours a day on an oil field or coal mine for a $5 gift card to Starbucks. Do I want that gift card, hell yes. Am I going to sacrifice everything else for the pursuit of it? Hell no.
At least a child-free who regrets can adopt and make a child's life better. The parents who regret just make a child's life worse no matter what they choose.
I respect your self awareness. If I had a child, I would love the shit out of that kid and give them everything I possibly could in this world. I would also be resentful of the time, energy, and money it took.
Im happy with my cats, aquariums, friends, and romantic relationships.
One of my mother's cousins, a woman that I never met was 18, unmarried and pregnant. She threw herself in the river and drowned. They found her body about 2 days later. This occurred in Poland in the 1950's.
I ask my mother why she did that and my mother smiled and said "Those were different times". As a suicide, she could also not be buried on church grounds.
Roman brothels had literal piles of dead babies under them. Like, a geological later. I'm just imagining a future geologist taking a vertical slice of terrain for something and picking up a layer of baby skeletons.
And giggling, because we let this happen, and the amount of on purpose horrible this is can't not make me laugh.
I recently learned one of my relatives was made to bury a miscarriage in the backyard as a kid. It was her father's and sister's. I have no idea how she's okay but her sisters definitely were not.
It’s just funny to hear conservatives ridiculing other cultures for marrying cousins, when they have an inordinate number of rapist fathers, brother-sister incest, and rapist priests.
But hey, they’re the superior culture and everyone else comes from “shithole” countries.
What part of “White culture is superior and all of you come from shithole countries” aren’t you guys understanding?
They just have the superior culture guys.
Never mind that 43% of welfare recipients are White, by far the largest group. (This is not a dig on the poor, just the superiority complex racist conservatives seem to have in disproportionate percentages.)
The women who did these things 60-70 years ago didn’t live in a time with cameras everywhere and heavy digital surveillance. Not to mention how every birth or pregnancy is practically digitally recorded today.
It’s impossible for a woman to do these things today and go unpunished.
If a woman goes into hiding, and doesn't seek any prenatal care, it's probably still possible to do those things today. But if they find remains of the dead fetus (or baby if it was full term and birthed), then DNA testing can pretty easily link the woman back to it. That's one thing that people didn't have to worry about decades ago. And of course, there's also potentially a huge cost to not seeking prenatal care.
One of my nephews works in Cybersecurity. He has a T-shirit with George Orwell on it. The caption reads "Did I call it or what?".
Where I work, there are CCTV cameras everywhere. For our own safety, you know. ; p
Where I live, and my brother goes to school, they have facial recognition in the dining hall to map whose actually eating there, also all preschools are required to have facial recognition cameras for “our own safety”. I know how you feel. Sometimes I get the feeling that I’m being watched 24/7, I’ve googled some stuff tho, like enriching uranium (I want to study physics), and I have looked into some interesting people like Julian Assange. Edward Snowden and such, maybe that’s just me.
In a self defense class that I took, the instructor said "Forget what you have seen on Kung Fu theater. If you are being assaulted outside, your first stances is a non-confrontational one. DO NOT GO into any kind of weird Kung Fu stance. If you are outside, you are probably on someone's camera today.
If you have never seen the old sci-fi movie "Gattaca" rent it. I am sure that with the advances in DNA that this is just around the corner.
You can still do it today, but it has to be a pregnancy you’re unaware of, nobody must see the birth or agree to keep secret of it, and you have to be very careful when dealing with any medical care professionals, if you don’t have any other children because birth leaves marks.
>they will mercilessly punish anyone involved
Yeah, that vindictive attitude about it all really bothers me. It's almost like they want to get people into situations where they can laugh at them and blame them for failing their Personal Responsibility™.
yeah its almost like they are horrible sociopaths who lack any shred of empathy or compassion for other people and who get high off causing the suffering of others... oh wait
We saw how well alcohol prohibition worked, and the war on drugs. Hell we’re in the middle of an opioid epidemic, they stopped legal access to opioids for most people, and people are still dying.. outlawing shit doesn’t work.. just creates more people in the for-profit prison system- which is what they want.
Australia would happily welcome anybody who is affected by this nonsense. We actually are ok with this and free healthcare and just generally recognising your humanity. We havent always been great at it but we are working on it.
Yesterday I heard someone make the argument that they can't stand the thought of abortion because it's a woman "shirking her responsibility" and "escaping punishment"
Unfortunately(?) with the way medical records are and such now, it would be impossible to “disappear” a kid. That is, unless upon knowing you are pregnant, you avoid any medical aid for 10+ months, also need to live in recluse to avoid the community’s realization, etc.
This whole entire thing is a clusterfuck. Fucking fascists. Meanwhile, nothing new to help actual living people.
Nah, they want to charge all those women with first degree murder.
They want women to be subordinate, they want to control you because despite all their talk of freedom, they are all literally fascists.
Wait, the exact same group who likes their murder sticks and wants things to go back to the way they were (when you could murder people without any sort of organized system of repercussions) wants to murder people without repercussions?
No. Fucking. Way.
I am sure we would hear even more harrowing tales about what they will do with those children...after all they will be "children of sin" /s. Remember what the Irish church used to do to single mothers' children not that long ago.
Rent [The Magdalene Sisters](https://www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Sisters-MIRAMAX-Geraldine-McEwan/dp/B09KDSS2BZ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WXYUGF8NGY5T&keywords=the+magdalene+sisters&qid=1656264111&s=instant-video&sprefix=the+magadalne+%2Cinstant-video%2C382&sr=1-1).
My Great, Great Grandfather came to this country when he was 15 years old. He was by himself and only had $12.00 to his name. On the ship's passenger log, it stated his name, country of origin: Ireland and in the comments it said: Illegitimate.
I can't imagine the life his mother had.
Throwing babies in the river was very common in Europe historically. Abortion was not very reliable. Just as happens in countries where it is illegal, you drink an herbal tea to induce bleeding and hopefully miscarry without bleeding to death. But success rates are limited, so women would hide the pregnancy (rich women had country houses), then toss it in the river.
In Classical Greece, they were left in the forest. It was considered wrong to kill the child but exposure wasn't active killing, so it was normalized. Oedipus's father was so fearful of him, he had the servant drive a stake through the baby's ankle but he was rescued and raised by a couple who lived on the mountain. That's a part of this whole common practice.
Neonaticide was very common when abortion was illegal or just not very successful. Even if someone considers it just as wrong to kill an embryo as a newborn, the whole trauma and risk of enduring a full pregnancy and birth is pointless.
For now, we just need to focus on donating to organizations that already exist to help women, especially poor women, get to free states and get a hotel, child care, and pay for the services they need. Cancel Netflix and put that $10/mo towards helping women instead.
They don’t care. They are “protecting the unborn”. Once they’re out, they don’t care what happens. This is about dehumanizing women, not saving babies.
In my state there are so many unwanted babies and kids they advertise on the news and have signs along the roads BEGGING people to foster or adopt and hardly anyone is responding.
My grandma, dad's side: never met her, died when my dad was a small child, body gave out after NINE unwanted pregnancies from abusive husband (who, by the way, lived to be 100 but was estranged from the family, due to being so abusive)
My grandma, mom's side: shotgun wedding as a teen when she became pregnant by some guy she didn't love. Five kids, last one an accident (my mom), and told everyone repeatedly my mom shouldn't have been born. Mom lives with that every day - she was never wanted.
I think both would have welcomed the ability to choose, and the access to women's health care that comes along with it. Maybe I'd have met my other grandparent, too. Her life could have been spared if Roe v. Wade existed in her time. Think of all the kids alive today who may never meet their moms or grandmothers. That's the thought that's haunting me currently.
This is absolutely necessary. It’s just too risky to have sex with men ever again until we can make our own medical decisions.
Even if you’re married, even if you actively want a child, it’s too risky - because if you miscarry and your body doesn’t clear the fetus and you can’t get an abortion to remove it, you could get an infection and die. Having sex with any man - even your own husband- is a potential death sentence.
I say we go back to the time where people just left them on the steps of the church. They’re “obviously” super compassionate and from the cars and planes their charitable preachers have, there’s more than enough money, so they’ve got this, case closed, problems solved. /s
Makes me sick that someone had to go through that, nevermind so many.
Also, **fuck** the men who kept impregnating their wives and even daughters because they couldn't keep it in their pants, and those who still do today. Rot in the ground, shitstains
Still do for a lot of doctors. And to be 30+, already have a child or two…Luckily there’s a few that actually care about the well-being of their patients instead of the possibility of a child
One of my relatives was raped in the early 1950s when she was on vacation out of the country. She was 13 at the time. When she found out she was pregnant, she and her mother were able to secure an abortion from a doctor in the Seattle area. They never spoke about it after other than in passing as the, "...baby under the porch" likely because that was where the fetal remains ended up.
I had heard references to the 'baby under the porch' every so often at family events. I didn't know the story until I was in my early 20s. I was horrified that she'd gone through that. She's a fundamentalist evangelical who has voted the straight GOP ticket since Richard Nixon. There are millions of stories just like that from the decades before Roe.
Next time a conservative starts going on about the sanctity of life, remind them about the women who had to go their entire lives, after being assaulted like that, with shame for receiving medical care. Abortion won't stop because the SC has 'given it back to the states.' It will just go underground.
My grandmother also told story. She was a teacher right after WW2 in USSR. Stalin decided to ban abortion. One girl from her class got pregnant, and made illegal abortion. Unfortunately she got infection and was admitted to the hospital. But authorities told her: "we save you but tell us who helped with abortion". Girl did not tell and died from infection. Terrifying story.
She likely thinks it's something that will never affect her, and if it ever does and she chooses an abortion, well - "the only moral abortion is my abortion". I swear too many people nowadays seem to view other human beings as NPCs and themselves as the main character whom nothing bad can ever happen to because they're "good people".
In the beginning it was “make them have more and more babies to build civilization”. Now that civilization is built and no need for more people it’s “let’s make them have more and more babies to continue to make billionaires even richer”. 🙄
Republicans care about you until you are born. Than you can go F yourself until you are dead. But don’t do it yourself, than the ‘hell’ thing kicks in with them. Wonderful bunch.
Abortion complications were the number one killer of women of childbearing age when abortion was illegal before. Forced birth laws kill women and fetuses
copied from another comment…
> “The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Unironically, yes. They believe everything that happens is gods will and that includes pre-teens getting raped and being forced to care for their rapists baby. They think it’s a blessing.
And no they won’t help you care for the baby they forced you to have. They need you to stay poor to help prop up the military and prison industrial complexes.
Its true. My grandparents couldn’t afford a child. It was a matter of taking everyone down and being homeless or getting rid of the newborn. So, my grandparents buried their newborn daughter in a shoebox. There wasn’t a place to give the baby away where it would be safe, either. They had an asylum where babies lived with severe abuse and children never made it to adulthood.
So, what was worse?
Had there been abortion, there’d be no viable baby to suffer and die, would there? Nobody knew about it for decades, but now that we all look back on it, it explains a lot about how it cost her immense grief. They went on to be stable enough financially to afford children. They had two sons. My dad and his brother. Both had children. Then, we all had children.
1 in 4 women in the U.S. have had an abortion. A National study shows that women who’ve had an abortion have a better out come financially and have been able to raise a family. In contrast, women who’ve been forced to carry to term, haven’t done as well.
Unless we have medical care for women to choose to carry to term or not and access to affordable birth control for all, with proper health care for newborns and everyone, this country absolutely sucks for females to be born into.
This Christian conservative dream of a society (without 'sluts') never existed. And it will not start existing by taking peoples medical care away.
This myth has to stop.
This is what I don't get from the Republicans and pro-lifers.
It's like they think outlawing it will make it not happen. It won't. It'll just make America worse for generations. Abortions will still happen, but they'll be illegal and underground - deadly. Children will be born and abandoned, or outright killed.
It's very confusing to witness. I'm just happy I got myself sterilized and I don't live in America.
I know Trudeau announced American women will be allowed into Canada to seek abortions, but I hope we also allow women to seek permanent birth control options like bilateral salpingectomies. I'd be willing to pay more taxes to extend that benefit to medical refugees from the US.
Honestly I'd also really appreciate instating a minimum taxation on all international corporations who operate in Canada and also donated to GOP initiatives - let them pay increased taxes to offset the reality they bribed into being.
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The fact the “pro-life” party cant see what the repercussions will be from this are appalling. Increased infanticide, increased homelessness, increased domestic violence against women, increased suicides of pregnant women, even more neglected kids and kids put in the system, and so much more. This is catastrophic.
They know, and they don't give a shit. They are happy about those horrific consequences because that's "punishment" for having sex, which is all they really care about. They are absolute monsters without a single shred of empathy. Ironically, most people who get abortions are Christians, but then they go the "the only moral abortion is my abortion" route and continue to shit on other women for being "sluts." They are vile.
Yep, they always say to not do it and stuff. Teachers at my sisters school even tried to get my sister to sign some abstinence pledge or something before “sex ed”, or she would have to write a big paper, probably as some stupid punishment. They probably didn’t talk about sex at all, just about how it is not allowed and some very vague stuff about it.
Sex ed in catholic school entailed some wacko blasting his knees out slamming them on the ground free falling to pray every class. We would hear it around the building. Told we would go to hell if part of an abortion. He had almost ten children. It had the opposite effect, I never wanted to be religious. Fundamentalist are nutcases on every spectrum
That’s creepy. I wonder if they keep that list of signatures and will try to enforce it with some type of secret policing. It seems we’re headed into the dark ages or Taliban type of rule.
Uh oh. I guess it will be started the same way as the Taliban to, by America getting into things they shouldn’t…
I used to think it was a little much to think they just want to punish women for having sex. I thought they were coming from a genuine, albeit naive, place of care for unborn children. Then a post from r conservative came up on the popular page shortly after Roe v Wade was killed. I scrolled through the comments and was absolutely floored and horrified by the things I read. I kept scrolling thinking there would only be a couple bad ones and there HAD to be some sane people somewhere in the thread. I was so taken aback. They really do just hate women. They hate women for having sex and they just want to see them suffer. It was actually insane. I realized I was the naive one for thinking they were trying to express what they thought was the compassionate option. But holy fuck, it's all hate, hate, and HATE
Exactly, those men miss the days when they had sex with ANY woman they wanted-a hooker, stripper, dancer, schoolgirl, servant, wife, slave-and the woman paid the ENTIRE price. Men were never condemned for sex outside of marriage. We women got too sneaky with our reproductive rights and so we can actually say NO to them and they don't like that at all.
No, wait: It’s punishment for *Women* having sex. No punishments for men who won’t take no for an answer. No punishments for men who refuse to wear a condom. No punishments for men who wash their hands and walk away. Only the women. Just like in the Bible they refuse to read but insist on beating the rest of us with - the woman caught in adultery was about to be stoned. The man was nowhere to be found, nor did they give him a second thought.
All correct except men don't wash their hands.
Or their asses from what I've seen on reddit
I wonder if they will ban neonatal testing, since the results sometimes lead couples to pursue an abortion. The rate of Down syndrome has plummeted in the last few decades. Are they going to be willing to hire more special education teachers to address the higher number of kids with special needs in schools? Are the people waiting on lists to adopt white babies (because of the "shortage" in meeting the "demand") willing to also adopt a baby with special needs?
You totally forgot IVF! How about all those extra embryos? You KNOW that isn't going to stop..
Or selection of the most viable?
Yeah, pro life only cares about what happens before birth, nothing after. I think the whole pro life thing could be reasonable if they wanted to help those who are already alive as well as those who weren’t born yet.
If you tell me you're anti abortion but you adopted / fostered some kids, or you're financially supporting a struggling parent, I can respect that. Otherwise, you're just an ass.
And rape rates will likely go up. If casual sex starts not being a thing anymore because of the lack of abortion, and (possibly) them taking away plan B + birth control- what woman would want a baby with a one night stand or a casual hookup she met on tinder? I mean I’m sure there’s some out there, but likely most women wouldn’t want that for themselves. So they’re going to hold out from having sex and some men who won’t take no for an answer will just take it from them. And On the flip side, I doubt men of one night stands/ hookups would want to pay child support or raise a kid that was a result of hooking up with a stranger. But these conservatives will just argue “sex for recreation bad, sex for procreation good, keep ur legs shut wh0re” 🙄
They see it and they are thrilled. Evangelicals want to push the world into oblivion to usher in the rapture. The GOP is a death cult, living their lives only for the ending of it.
I think this is literally true
I already saw an article from them titled "women will thrive post roe v wade" going on about "now we won't have abortion propaganda forcing women to think abortion is their only option due to finances" like no, there's women who literally don't want kids. It's not just about being broke. Even if "adoption is an option", we shouldn't have to be forced to go through a potentially life threatening experience. I'm trying to get my uterus removed because I have a high chance of ectopic pregnancies due to my endometriosis and ovarian cysts. Even if I entirely avoid sex, rape can happen to anyone.
They see it. The decision was made for pain and misery. The cruelty is the point. They want everyone who they see as lesser and undesirable, who doesn't follow their way of life, to suffer. Always remember cruelty is the point.
They’ve done a great job at branding themselves as pro life instead of something more accurate like…antichoice…forced pregnancy…motherslavers…
It’s not that they can’t see the repercussions will be, it’s that they don’t care.
The crime rate will go up too.
>*The fact the “pro-life” party cant see what the repercussions will be* Sorry bud, It's more likely that you are the one that can't see that they very much can see the repercussions. They probably see it when they close their eyes and they see it their dreams. And they absolutely fucking love it.
The anti-choice party is comprised of some of the dumbest human beings to ever attempt to walk and chew gum at the same time. It breaks down like this: * Complete Morons (<85 IQ): ~90% * Followers and the Intellectually Lazy: ~9% * The Pure Evil (psychopaths, the rich, etc): 1%
if i got pregnant and couldnt get an abortion for real i'd just starve myself until i miscarried edit: muting the comment isn’t working— so pls just stop replying to it. it’s been months, nobody’s opinion is really that interesting. either way, if i’m ever that desperate not to give birth i certainly won’t be focused on minutiae
This would cause your teeth to fall out as the baby would suck all the nutrients from your body. You would also be prone to breaking bones.
better than having a kid lmfao
exactly. osteoporosis is treatable & dentures exist. glad to know my.. strained relationship.. with food might do some good if the future rly is this bleak
That’s terrifying.. I can see why some people compare them to parasites.
They really are! They will suck every nutrient out of your body, not realizing they can be killing their own host. All that matters is their growth and viability
Kind of like the GOP
I did this. I was hoping to miscarry, both to save myself the money of paying for an abortion because I was a broke college student, and to avoid my narcissist mother finding out. I did everything I wasn’t supposed to. Only getting 4 hours of sleep a night, hardly any food, excessive smoking and drinking - I wasn’t even a smoker before. I prayed the stress would induce a miscarry. I had dropped 20lbs by the time I made it to my appointment, and because I had no idea when it was conceived, I almost missed my window. I’m glad to be in a blue state, but I’m so scared for everyone who will go through that pain and fear.
I asked my doctor what I would do during a routine check up if it was to happen and she went stone cold and said, well I can’t say this with any seriousness but hypothetically speaking if it did you could stop your iron supplements and with your anemia the fetus would die of hypoxia before you faced any serious complications from it.
It's said that Ben Franklin's math book has a recipe to cause an abortion.
Yes, that specific section is for "[The Suppression Of The Courses](https://ibb.co/Sm9mmBK)". In essence he writes about how you can bring about a missed menses, which was the polite way of passing on detailed knowledge on recipes & use of herbal abortifacients/contraceptives... Pretty interesting read. Ben concludes with the following advice for the ladies: "...nor must they long for pretty fellows, or any other trash whatsoever" :)
Ben Franklin was trash himself, but at least he admitted it.
There’s a reason Queen Anne’s Lace is abundant in any older cottage garden.
You can tell what plant it is because it looks so pretty and smells like pee.
Man, it's so much harder than you might imagine. I think 1/3 of early pregnancy ends in miscarriage, but once the damn thing is past a certain point it's holding on with everything it has. If that fetus could shut you down and force you to hibernate for 40 weeks, while still getting the bare minimum necessary for survival, it would. (Re: brain fog, all consuming exhaustion, non existent digestive movement to extract every single fucking nutrient the parasite can manage) I tried to end a pregnancy once. Took massive doses of every potential abortifacient I could for WEEKS. I was vomiting, feverish, weak, collapsing at work. Literally felt like I was going to die before I ever saw the end of that nightmare. Finally had to give up and pay for an abortion. 0/10
As someone who had HG for most of my pregnancy. A fetus will not miscarry because the host isn't eating. The fetus will always get nutrients, even if you aren't taking any in. You'll just make yourself suffer and possibly cause physical harm/damage to yourself in the process.
This is absolutely terrible advice. Your body will prioritize the fetus. Papaya seed Queen Ann's lace Black Cohash Root
i never said it was advice! just a desperate mesure i would be willing to take for myself! don’t put words in peoples mouths >:(
In order to kill the baby - you have to practically kill the mother.
Just a fun FYI in case this ever happens. My half brother's baby mom was in the severe depths of Anorexia when she got pregnant with their first child. She started to restrict as soon as she found out because the fear of getting fat hit her hard. He didn't know this was happening. She ended up not miscarrying as she had intended but thinking she had...so afterwards she continued her insane eating habit of 2 grapes a day and a cotton ball soaked in orange juice while they mourned the "loss". 22 weeks later she goes into labor, this dumb bitch rushed herself to the ER thinking she was dying of appendicitis but gave birth. The poor kid hasn't left a hospital in 11 years. The mother is so ashamed she doesn't go to visit the kid anymore and hasn't in years. It's fucking sad. But the problems she has are all caused from fetal survival through the mom's starvation. Kid's got heart issues, lung function issues where she's on oxygen 24/7, she has something akin to type 1 diabetes because her pancreas doesn't function properly, she's had dialysis already and she's only 11. And the last I talked to my half brothers mom she was having to be potty trained again because she started having bladder issues and they had to start her back to pull ups. She has visible facial deformities and slight mental retardation. It's just all around a shit situation for the kid. She's such a sweet and happy little girl too, it crushes me. I'm pro choice and have had an abortion myself before, I don't say that in a sense like, "oh the kids sweet, all kids are great and a blessing", I just say it as it sucks for her quality of life because of that happening. So, moral of the story is. Starvation doesn't always work. You'd probably die before the fetus would. There are herbal ways out. They're not hard to research. It's better than being stuck in a situation like this one and paying child support to a hospital because your kid you didn't intend to have lives there lol. Plus, starving sucks. You go bald and your teeth hurt.
Ok wait. I’m not being facetious here. Is this a real thing?
it's less like "the baby sucking nutrients out of its mom" and more like "physiology operating according to its drunken slapshod process of evolutionary programming" but yea
My grandmother had a good friend who died via coat hanger abortion. They found her dead in a bathtub. I had an older woman tell me she was never able to have kids after the local butcher took care of her problem. A woman my great aunt knew died because the local butcher caused an infection, and the woman was too scared to tell the dr’s at the hospital why she was sick, she was afraid of going to prison. So she just died. Some people believe abortion is new. It’s not. Ancient Romans often drowned their babies in pools. Natives had herbs that would cause miscarriage. Abortion is very old.
Ancient Romans used an herb called Silphium both as a contraceptive and to induce miscarriage. They also used it as an aphrodisiac and cure-all, but it was known as the most effective birth control at the time. It was so popular, they ate the plant into extinction before the fall of the Roman Empire.
It's also where the heart symbol came from IIRC
I wish a generics maker would use a nice heart press for their dayafter pill
[Doesn't it come from two swans bending their necks?](https://www.google.com/search?q=swans+bending+necks+into+heart+shape&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALiCzsbPAx7DbPMDyJ43gzAu0NtiK5kIiQ:1656285143720&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirhI39nsz4AhWwh_0HHajLB88Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ)
Or a bum in 'doggy style'
Great minds think alike
I've read about this for years and years and I just can't understand why they wouldn't be cultivating it?? Like on a mass scale?
According to the sources I found, it seems like it only grew in one region in North Africa, and only in the wild on a single 125 mile strip of land. The Greeks tried growing it in Greece, but it wouldn't flower there. All other attempts to cultivate it apparently failed. There are some theories as to why, like the plant may have been a hybrid with non-viable seeds. The last known plant was sent to Emperor Nero around AD50, but since we're unsure exactly what the Silphium plant actually was, its speculated that it may not have gone entirely extinct and could still exist today.
Is there no depictions or descriptions? It would be cool to bring this plant back from extinction. Wouldn't be the first time a thought to be - long gone plant was revived. Undoubtedly much harder if it was not a seed bearing plant.
I believe the only surviving depiction is on [coins from the ancient North African city of Cyrene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silphium_(antiquity)#/media/File:Magas_as_Ptolemaic_governor,_first_reign,_circa_300-282_or_275_BC_Didrachm.jpg), where silphium exports made up the majority of the economy. From Wikipedia: >The exact identity of silphium is unclear. It is commonly believed to be a now-extinct plant of the genus Ferula, perhaps a variety of "giant fennel". The extant plants Margotia gummifera and Ferula tingitana have been suggested as other possibilities. Another plant, asafoetida, was used as a cheaper substitute for silphium, and had similar enough qualities that Romans, including the geographer Strabo, used the same word to describe both. So it seems the issue is that even if we saw the plant today we couldn't be positive it's silphium.
I wouldn't doubt if there's some isolated populations out there! I wonder if modern people even actually know what it looks like. Maybe we know it as some rare species that we don't realize it has those effects. I'd bet people nowadays could cultivate it, many difficult plants can be grown in captivity. The hardest are ones that require specific mycorrhizae and bacterias, but people are even figuring that out.
People have abortions because just keeping having babies until you die is just completely nuts.
When you’re not on the plains, dying young, babies dying, and maybe not having enough nutrients to even ovulate sometimes, a baby every few years that actually lives very quickly adds up.
Yes. Its so ridiculous when people say "well don't have sex if you don't want a baby" because the fact is that many many people are in long term relationships or marriages. Should they just never have sex again? Because there is not a single birth control that is 100% besides abstinence.
According to the Bible, even abstinence isn't 100%
And good luck telling a man to abstain who is Pro-Life. Marital rape wasnt outlawed in many states until 1993. And many churches teach girls from a young age that it's never rape if it's with your husband and God wills it on you.
Yeah these assholes don't even see the irony in being that guy that demands regular sex as a condition of continuing the relationship while simultaneously believing you as the woman should be stuck baring the consequence of having said sex. Like that alone makes them a complete asshole not even worthy of a partner- don't fuck republicans ladies, and god fucking forbid never get into a relationship with someone even remotely right-leaning. They literally give ZERO shits about you.
Not long ago husbands could legally rape their wives. They will probably be rolling back the laws against that too, soon.
I mean there’s even “the bitter water” in the Bible so yes the Bible references abortions. Aside from all the babies that God killed that were already born…
The old testament (and their the Jewish faith) contains precise instructions for when an abortion is allowed and how to do it. https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
They used to refer to it as menstrual control and not abortion in many place. It was normal to induce a period with herbals and activities, thereby flushing the uterus. It’s been around for a very long time.
Romans actually committed infanticide, which is going to now happen a lot more. A lot worse fate to me than abortion….
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The Greeks used a natural herbal miscarriage plant to extinction. Used to grow on the sides of mountains as a weed but was exhausted to extinction.
The Roman’s, and it grew in what we now know as Northern Africa. The couldn’t cultivate it, sadly.
Animals literally just eat their kids if they stressed on resources.
Neither is infanticide, unfortunately. I remember a video about mabiki - a euphemism for infanticide in Japan - that basically refers to population control and was more or less pacified by religious beliefs that if a child is young enough they haven’t lived long enough for their soul to root, so they’ll just come back when the time is right. I’m sure some of it was to help ease the morality of, yknow, killing a baby, but it was often out of pure necessity as in the original post that they just couldn’t handle another child.
My great grandmother had to get an emergency hysterectomy after her abortion in the 30s. She's rolling in her grave
My great-grandmother married at 16 and had my grandmother a year later. The birth was so traumatic that after she got pregnant again, she rode a horse hard, every day, until it fell out.
I will die on this hill: A very small percentage of childfree people might regret their decision to be childfree. A shit load of parents regret their decision to have kids in real time.
Especially nowadays, I'll die on that hill as well, that's why I'll avoid having kids.
Same. I know 100% I’ll be miserable if I have kids. Do I know, in advance, there will be a time when I’m 62, that I think “it would be great to have adult children join us for this trip/holiday/etc.”… yes; I know I will have those moments. Will that 2-3 minutes of wanting a big family to share that specific moment with, outweigh the 20+ years of my life being completely dedicated to them and not my own interests, career, and sex life… NOPE. I will not regret it.
The sad part, the people who want abortions would be horrible with kids, they don't want to put effort in taking care of them. If I were them, I'm gonna have to suck it up and bust my ass at work, just like my mom did for 3 kids not speaking english.
Right. That is the thing about childfree people. I think there are a handful that are self aware about personal issues, that would make them a terrible parent… mental health issues, or maybe they have become abusive in a relationship so they avoid relationships and don’t want children, etc. Most childfree people, however, know what it takes to be a great parent, and 1) could not imagine providing less than the absolute best to a child, feeling cruel that you wouldn’t be able to give them that due to finances/career choice/family situation/part of the world you live in/etc… or 2) we have the means and support system that could provide the best life for a kid, but would resent it and do not want to spend our money and time on raising a child, but on ourselves and our partners. I am number 2). That might sounds selfish to some people. But explain to me any choice in life you make, to make yourself happy/financially stable/more attractive/etc that didn’t have an opposite choice that would serve other people better. Having children is just as selfish as not having the … it is about what YOU want to do with your life. I am just honest that living for another human being won’t make me happy.
Many people who have abortions either already have kids and just recognize they can’t afford to take care of more, or they go on to have children later and are just not at a life stage where they can have children.
And even if you had adult kids to join you, they might want to do different activities anyway. I know the types of trips my husband and I take are pretty different from the types of trips and vacation activities my parents enjoy. That's why you find friends to go on vacations with instead. One of my mom's friends is in her 60's, divorced, and has no kids. She travels with her friends, who are generally also single with no kids. They have a blast, and go to places people who had kids usually can't afford because they spent so much of their money raising kids. Instead of investing it, or saving it for retirement, it went into college funds.
I was walking out of target this morning and a woman was walking in, and I don't know what it was about her exactly that struck me? But she just had this like, stressed out, at-the-end-of-her-rope, misery thing going on. She looked a little unwell, like she hadn't been taking care of herself, and when we made eye contact I felt how tired she was. There were 3 kids under the age of 6 in and around the basket, and you could tell they were not making this woman's life easy. I'm not saying that she regrets being a mother, but in that moment I'm rolling out of target with cat litter, some toiletries and a cute mug, everything about her screamed that she'd trade places with me in a heartbeat.
Right. I absolutely believe, there will be a time, 25 years from now, sitting around the table at a holiday meal, she will be thrilled with her life… provided none of those children have contracted a terminal illness/become a drug addict/died in a drunk diving incident/still live at home and rely fully on her/is in prison for rape, murder, whatever/etc etc. But even if things are absolutely perfect in 25 years… and how many families can say that… you have to ask yourself was the 20+ years of struggle, sacrifice, pain, emotional damage, financial pressure… worth that lovely moment? I think for all of us here, the answer is NOPE. It isn’t that there is zero potential for s happy future family. It is that even if you achieve that magical gold medal, was it worth the journey. None of use would work 12 hours a day on an oil field or coal mine for a $5 gift card to Starbucks. Do I want that gift card, hell yes. Am I going to sacrifice everything else for the pursuit of it? Hell no.
At least a child-free who regrets can adopt and make a child's life better. The parents who regret just make a child's life worse no matter what they choose.
I love my kids, I envy childfree couples.
I respect your self awareness. If I had a child, I would love the shit out of that kid and give them everything I possibly could in this world. I would also be resentful of the time, energy, and money it took. Im happy with my cats, aquariums, friends, and romantic relationships.
One of my mother's cousins, a woman that I never met was 18, unmarried and pregnant. She threw herself in the river and drowned. They found her body about 2 days later. This occurred in Poland in the 1950's. I ask my mother why she did that and my mother smiled and said "Those were different times". As a suicide, she could also not be buried on church grounds.
The possibility that she was raped and then had to kill herself because or the rape and the unforgivness of society towards women is giving me chills.
It also sounds like she may have not committed suicide
Exactly. Even the fact that they gave birth to it. AFTER 6 KIDS
Roman brothels had literal piles of dead babies under them. Like, a geological later. I'm just imagining a future geologist taking a vertical slice of terrain for something and picking up a layer of baby skeletons. And giggling, because we let this happen, and the amount of on purpose horrible this is can't not make me laugh.
Prolifers don’t realize that legalizing abortion and making it safe actually PREVENTS infanticide
Deep…. Surreal. Especially the “I knew it was my father’s so …”
I recently learned one of my relatives was made to bury a miscarriage in the backyard as a kid. It was her father's and sister's. I have no idea how she's okay but her sisters definitely were not.
How is the Old Man? Dead I hope.
It’s just funny to hear conservatives ridiculing other cultures for marrying cousins, when they have an inordinate number of rapist fathers, brother-sister incest, and rapist priests. But hey, they’re the superior culture and everyone else comes from “shithole” countries.
Child marriage is legal in the US. We have thousands of 12 year olds married to old men.
What part of “White culture is superior and all of you come from shithole countries” aren’t you guys understanding? They just have the superior culture guys. Never mind that 43% of welfare recipients are White, by far the largest group. (This is not a dig on the poor, just the superiority complex racist conservatives seem to have in disproportionate percentages.)
That one was so chilling
Yes. And then when they hear about this, they will mercilessly punish anyone involved
The women who did these things 60-70 years ago didn’t live in a time with cameras everywhere and heavy digital surveillance. Not to mention how every birth or pregnancy is practically digitally recorded today. It’s impossible for a woman to do these things today and go unpunished.
If a woman goes into hiding, and doesn't seek any prenatal care, it's probably still possible to do those things today. But if they find remains of the dead fetus (or baby if it was full term and birthed), then DNA testing can pretty easily link the woman back to it. That's one thing that people didn't have to worry about decades ago. And of course, there's also potentially a huge cost to not seeking prenatal care.
We did a great job building the surveillance state ourselves. I fucking despise anyone who owns a Ring doorbell or an Alexa.
One of my nephews works in Cybersecurity. He has a T-shirit with George Orwell on it. The caption reads "Did I call it or what?". Where I work, there are CCTV cameras everywhere. For our own safety, you know. ; p
Where I live, and my brother goes to school, they have facial recognition in the dining hall to map whose actually eating there, also all preschools are required to have facial recognition cameras for “our own safety”. I know how you feel. Sometimes I get the feeling that I’m being watched 24/7, I’ve googled some stuff tho, like enriching uranium (I want to study physics), and I have looked into some interesting people like Julian Assange. Edward Snowden and such, maybe that’s just me.
In a self defense class that I took, the instructor said "Forget what you have seen on Kung Fu theater. If you are being assaulted outside, your first stances is a non-confrontational one. DO NOT GO into any kind of weird Kung Fu stance. If you are outside, you are probably on someone's camera today. If you have never seen the old sci-fi movie "Gattaca" rent it. I am sure that with the advances in DNA that this is just around the corner.
You can still do it today, but it has to be a pregnancy you’re unaware of, nobody must see the birth or agree to keep secret of it, and you have to be very careful when dealing with any medical care professionals, if you don’t have any other children because birth leaves marks.
They need more poor unfortunate souls to run the machine Also happy cake day!
Ha you too! Cake day buddies
>they will mercilessly punish anyone involved Yeah, that vindictive attitude about it all really bothers me. It's almost like they want to get people into situations where they can laugh at them and blame them for failing their Personal Responsibility™.
yeah its almost like they are horrible sociopaths who lack any shred of empathy or compassion for other people and who get high off causing the suffering of others... oh wait
That's not true. The men involved will be fine.
Overturning Roe v. Wade won't stop abortions, it will only stop ethical, legal, and safe abortions
We saw how well alcohol prohibition worked, and the war on drugs. Hell we’re in the middle of an opioid epidemic, they stopped legal access to opioids for most people, and people are still dying.. outlawing shit doesn’t work.. just creates more people in the for-profit prison system- which is what they want.
I feel like other countries who desperately want to brain drain all intellectual women in America need to open their borders now. We’d come aflocking.
American women wanted! Come teachers, lawyers, doctors! We need you. Come now! I’d go
Australia would happily welcome anybody who is affected by this nonsense. We actually are ok with this and free healthcare and just generally recognising your humanity. We havent always been great at it but we are working on it.
Getting to punish women for what they do with the unwanted child after the pregnancy is like a fun bonus round for them
Yesterday I heard someone make the argument that they can't stand the thought of abortion because it's a woman "shirking her responsibility" and "escaping punishment"
Theyre orcs
hey, at least orcs can be ok
You're right that's an insult to orcs
Yup. Plus the more felony convictions for women the less women voters. It already works well with brown and black people!
Unfortunately(?) with the way medical records are and such now, it would be impossible to “disappear” a kid. That is, unless upon knowing you are pregnant, you avoid any medical aid for 10+ months, also need to live in recluse to avoid the community’s realization, etc. This whole entire thing is a clusterfuck. Fucking fascists. Meanwhile, nothing new to help actual living people.
> you avoid any medical aid for 10+ months This is America. People do that for 10+ years just to avoid the bills.
Nah, they want to charge all those women with first degree murder. They want women to be subordinate, they want to control you because despite all their talk of freedom, they are all literally fascists.
Many trigger law states also have the death penalty. They want to murder women for having abortions
How very pro life of them.
Wait, the exact same group who likes their murder sticks and wants things to go back to the way they were (when you could murder people without any sort of organized system of repercussions) wants to murder people without repercussions? No. Fucking. Way.
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You ever heard of the christian "quiver full" movement?
Our Father is a documentary that touches on it. A very sick tale.
YEAH the netflix situation? I might watch for the chills and thrills
That's what the Duggars are. I h*t* those people!
What hearing is that we should leave unwanted babies on the doorsteps of quiverfull Christians
Last thing this world needs is a larger population of brainwashed religious nuts
I am sure we would hear even more harrowing tales about what they will do with those children...after all they will be "children of sin" /s. Remember what the Irish church used to do to single mothers' children not that long ago.
Rent [The Magdalene Sisters](https://www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Sisters-MIRAMAX-Geraldine-McEwan/dp/B09KDSS2BZ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WXYUGF8NGY5T&keywords=the+magdalene+sisters&qid=1656264111&s=instant-video&sprefix=the+magadalne+%2Cinstant-video%2C382&sr=1-1). My Great, Great Grandfather came to this country when he was 15 years old. He was by himself and only had $12.00 to his name. On the ship's passenger log, it stated his name, country of origin: Ireland and in the comments it said: Illegitimate. I can't imagine the life his mother had.
Throwing babies in the river was very common in Europe historically. Abortion was not very reliable. Just as happens in countries where it is illegal, you drink an herbal tea to induce bleeding and hopefully miscarry without bleeding to death. But success rates are limited, so women would hide the pregnancy (rich women had country houses), then toss it in the river. In Classical Greece, they were left in the forest. It was considered wrong to kill the child but exposure wasn't active killing, so it was normalized. Oedipus's father was so fearful of him, he had the servant drive a stake through the baby's ankle but he was rescued and raised by a couple who lived on the mountain. That's a part of this whole common practice. Neonaticide was very common when abortion was illegal or just not very successful. Even if someone considers it just as wrong to kill an embryo as a newborn, the whole trauma and risk of enduring a full pregnancy and birth is pointless. For now, we just need to focus on donating to organizations that already exist to help women, especially poor women, get to free states and get a hotel, child care, and pay for the services they need. Cancel Netflix and put that $10/mo towards helping women instead.
They don’t care. They are “protecting the unborn”. Once they’re out, they don’t care what happens. This is about dehumanizing women, not saving babies.
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I don't know why, but this made me laugh really hard reading that. It's sad but true.
“Give them up for adoption” - Shit they say.
In my state there are so many unwanted babies and kids they advertise on the news and have signs along the roads BEGGING people to foster or adopt and hardly anyone is responding.
I had a distant relative die in like the 40s after a self abortion. Bled out in the middle of a pasture.
My grandma, dad's side: never met her, died when my dad was a small child, body gave out after NINE unwanted pregnancies from abusive husband (who, by the way, lived to be 100 but was estranged from the family, due to being so abusive) My grandma, mom's side: shotgun wedding as a teen when she became pregnant by some guy she didn't love. Five kids, last one an accident (my mom), and told everyone repeatedly my mom shouldn't have been born. Mom lives with that every day - she was never wanted. I think both would have welcomed the ability to choose, and the access to women's health care that comes along with it. Maybe I'd have met my other grandparent, too. Her life could have been spared if Roe v. Wade existed in her time. Think of all the kids alive today who may never meet their moms or grandmothers. That's the thought that's haunting me currently.
Honestly fuck every republican in this country.
Nobody should fuck republicans until they reverse this ban
We need a sex strike. No one gets fucked until this is fixed.
This is absolutely necessary. It’s just too risky to have sex with men ever again until we can make our own medical decisions. Even if you’re married, even if you actively want a child, it’s too risky - because if you miscarry and your body doesn’t clear the fetus and you can’t get an abortion to remove it, you could get an infection and die. Having sex with any man - even your own husband- is a potential death sentence.
Nobody should fuck Republicans regardless lmao that's why we are in this mess
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Have to agree 😂
I say we go back to the time where people just left them on the steps of the church. They’re “obviously” super compassionate and from the cars and planes their charitable preachers have, there’s more than enough money, so they’ve got this, case closed, problems solved. /s
I like this idea. I think Catholic churches in particular should be on the front lines of the baby dumping.
Skip the middle man, put them on the steps of the supreme court
Makes me sick that someone had to go through that, nevermind so many. Also, **fuck** the men who kept impregnating their wives and even daughters because they couldn't keep it in their pants, and those who still do today. Rot in the ground, shitstains
Back then, women needed consent from their husbands to get their tubes tied. Idk about now tho
Still do for a lot of doctors. And to be 30+, already have a child or two…Luckily there’s a few that actually care about the well-being of their patients instead of the possibility of a child
Or what a hypothetical future husband would want!
even if you’re a lesbian they tell you the same shit 🥲
It’s so fucked
One of my relatives was raped in the early 1950s when she was on vacation out of the country. She was 13 at the time. When she found out she was pregnant, she and her mother were able to secure an abortion from a doctor in the Seattle area. They never spoke about it after other than in passing as the, "...baby under the porch" likely because that was where the fetal remains ended up. I had heard references to the 'baby under the porch' every so often at family events. I didn't know the story until I was in my early 20s. I was horrified that she'd gone through that. She's a fundamentalist evangelical who has voted the straight GOP ticket since Richard Nixon. There are millions of stories just like that from the decades before Roe. Next time a conservative starts going on about the sanctity of life, remind them about the women who had to go their entire lives, after being assaulted like that, with shame for receiving medical care. Abortion won't stop because the SC has 'given it back to the states.' It will just go underground.
Welp! I guess the alligators and the wild life will soon acquire a taste for human flesh
My grandmother also told story. She was a teacher right after WW2 in USSR. Stalin decided to ban abortion. One girl from her class got pregnant, and made illegal abortion. Unfortunately she got infection and was admitted to the hospital. But authorities told her: "we save you but tell us who helped with abortion". Girl did not tell and died from infection. Terrifying story.
Abortion isn’t baby murder. But by retracting the right, people will kill babies.
What makes it worse is that a woman helped to overturn it.
She likely thinks it's something that will never affect her, and if it ever does and she chooses an abortion, well - "the only moral abortion is my abortion". I swear too many people nowadays seem to view other human beings as NPCs and themselves as the main character whom nothing bad can ever happen to because they're "good people".
They are the Uncle Toms of women
Aunt Karens
Fucking Jane Roe became an anti-abortion activist
In the beginning it was “make them have more and more babies to build civilization”. Now that civilization is built and no need for more people it’s “let’s make them have more and more babies to continue to make billionaires even richer”. 🙄
Exactly. It's for the rich and powerful to continue their slave wage labor.
“I’m just a prom night dumpster baby”
Republicans care about you until you are born. Than you can go F yourself until you are dead. But don’t do it yourself, than the ‘hell’ thing kicks in with them. Wonderful bunch.
Republicans: the cruelty is the point
Abortion complications were the number one killer of women of childbearing age when abortion was illegal before. Forced birth laws kill women and fetuses
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The problem is that this is how pro-life people see it - That somehow the clump of cells that is a fetus is as much of a person as a born child.
copied from another comment… > “The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.” ― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
That's nothing in comparison to Romania for example. If you read their stories you'll be horrified.
1989 Romania called, they want their revolution caused when the forced babies grew up into misery back
Unironically, yes. They believe everything that happens is gods will and that includes pre-teens getting raped and being forced to care for their rapists baby. They think it’s a blessing. And no they won’t help you care for the baby they forced you to have. They need you to stay poor to help prop up the military and prison industrial complexes.
I hope women leave their dead babies on the justices doorsteps. (Not really, I’m just enraged).
I used to work with historical birth certificates. There were a startling number of them that recorded 'Foundling' with no mother or father.
My buddy, five years ago: 'The Hunger Games is more believable than The Handmaid's Tale.' My buddy now: (\*crickets\*)
Its true. My grandparents couldn’t afford a child. It was a matter of taking everyone down and being homeless or getting rid of the newborn. So, my grandparents buried their newborn daughter in a shoebox. There wasn’t a place to give the baby away where it would be safe, either. They had an asylum where babies lived with severe abuse and children never made it to adulthood. So, what was worse? Had there been abortion, there’d be no viable baby to suffer and die, would there? Nobody knew about it for decades, but now that we all look back on it, it explains a lot about how it cost her immense grief. They went on to be stable enough financially to afford children. They had two sons. My dad and his brother. Both had children. Then, we all had children. 1 in 4 women in the U.S. have had an abortion. A National study shows that women who’ve had an abortion have a better out come financially and have been able to raise a family. In contrast, women who’ve been forced to carry to term, haven’t done as well. Unless we have medical care for women to choose to carry to term or not and access to affordable birth control for all, with proper health care for newborns and everyone, this country absolutely sucks for females to be born into.
This Christian conservative dream of a society (without 'sluts') never existed. And it will not start existing by taking peoples medical care away. This myth has to stop.
This is what I don't get from the Republicans and pro-lifers. It's like they think outlawing it will make it not happen. It won't. It'll just make America worse for generations. Abortions will still happen, but they'll be illegal and underground - deadly. Children will be born and abandoned, or outright killed. It's very confusing to witness. I'm just happy I got myself sterilized and I don't live in America. I know Trudeau announced American women will be allowed into Canada to seek abortions, but I hope we also allow women to seek permanent birth control options like bilateral salpingectomies. I'd be willing to pay more taxes to extend that benefit to medical refugees from the US. Honestly I'd also really appreciate instating a minimum taxation on all international corporations who operate in Canada and also donated to GOP initiatives - let them pay increased taxes to offset the reality they bribed into being.
Dark age.
I’m tempted to make a protest sign that says “Would you rather have one tax payer, or none?”
So little Susie down the road that gets raped by her uncle gets pregnant and is now forced to have this baby?!?!? This world is sick
We’re gonna see lots of dead kids with moms facing prison time like Casey Anthony suddenly.Also mad intrest in tubal ligations