"We don't have enough people to exploit now so we will have to exploit each one of you much more to compensate for that."
Sounds like a recipe for a massive exodus or a revolution.
They’ve also had a failing gov multiple times. Greece isn’t the example you want to look at. Many old countries like this have systemic problems in gov and economy.
Problem is early retirements - they just cannot afford them. Add to this rampant tax avoidance by paying in cash everywhere. But politicians don't want to explain this to electorate - or they will never get elected again. So it's just easier to squeeze working middle instead to pay for people retiring at 60 and often even earlier.
Similar situation is in huge part of Europe. Societies getting older and pushing the burden on young people - because old ones dominate politics AND VOTE. So politicians pander to them.
"Pro-business government says measure is needed due to shrinking population and shortage of skilled workers." - who wants to bet this will create an even greater shortage of skilled workers? Know I'd flee the country if it means I could work 40-hour weeks rather than 48-hour ones.
How about offering a 0% tax to any married couple with kids aged 0-12?
Encourage those who are productive and reproduce and stopping stealing from them and giving the fruits of their labor to the most unproductive members of society and wasteful government spending
People arent having kids because they cannot afford to because the government takes their money and gives it to people who dont work at all.
That system might feel good, but it cannot sustain itself. It will collapse. Society needs to reward productive families, right now it punishes them.
So in addition to funding govt provided schools, childcare, children’s healthcare etc. those who choose not to have children would be taxed extra, despite not utilising any of the things the govt is funding?
What about people who don’t belong to any religion? If you’re not religious you don’t get a tax break?
What about unmarried couples who have children?
What about married couples who desperately want children but are infertile? Or don’t meet the adoption criteria? They should be punished?
Punishing everyone who doesn’t produce more wage slaves isn’t something I think should be pushed by any government.
No, there’s clearly systemic issues in Greece to do with older generations taking retirement early and with massively overinflated pensions caused by a lack of foresight in previous decades.
Giving parents massive tax breaks and punishing working age, employed people for not having children is stupid. Especially as even with the tax breaks most people would still be poorer as their tax burden is less than the cost of having a child would be.
To be frank, I don’t give a fuck about Greece’s economy, I’m not Greek and I don’t plan to live there.
If your problem is people who aren’t ‘productive’ then guess what, unemployed people aren’t paying taxes anyway, so you’re not hurting them by lower taxes for parents. Plenty of unemployed people have children, so both the parents and children are funded by the govt but they don’t provide anything back, they get off free in your plan though?
Have you realised that anyone who is a multimillionaire would suddenly be paying 0% tax by having a child every 12 years? Men can have kids in their 80s. How much tax income would be lost? How the fuck does the state function when suddenly 50% of the country pays 0% tax?
I think finances is the #1 factor that prevents couples who want kids from having kids
If people dont want the responsibility, its likely they just flat out dont want kids at all
It's 100% the finances that are a large factor. Anytime someone I knew that wanted or even contemplated having kids was asked why they didn't the answer was literally "money".
And needing childcare is likely #2 - which, of course, can also be taken care of with more money. Or could have government programs offering it for free or whatnot.
What most parents actually want is 1 person to be able to stay at home taking care of the kids while the other works
The reason that doesnt work for most people, is because they dont bring home enough money to make that financially possible
Again, its a matter of finances
"We don't have enough people to exploit now so we will have to exploit each one of you much more to compensate for that." Sounds like a recipe for a massive exodus or a revolution.
They’ve also had a failing gov multiple times. Greece isn’t the example you want to look at. Many old countries like this have systemic problems in gov and economy.
Problem is early retirements - they just cannot afford them. Add to this rampant tax avoidance by paying in cash everywhere. But politicians don't want to explain this to electorate - or they will never get elected again. So it's just easier to squeeze working middle instead to pay for people retiring at 60 and often even earlier. Similar situation is in huge part of Europe. Societies getting older and pushing the burden on young people - because old ones dominate politics AND VOTE. So politicians pander to them.
A article in the guardian https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/01/greece-introduces-growth-oriented-six-day-working-week
Greek society collapsing in 3...2...1.
It has been on a slow collapse
Yup, they are one of the biggest drags on the EU, and one of the early complaints with Pro-Brexiters.
"Pro-business government says measure is needed due to shrinking population and shortage of skilled workers." - who wants to bet this will create an even greater shortage of skilled workers? Know I'd flee the country if it means I could work 40-hour weeks rather than 48-hour ones.
Their economy has been fucked for a while.
Actually evil
How about offering a 0% tax to any married couple with kids aged 0-12? Encourage those who are productive and reproduce and stopping stealing from them and giving the fruits of their labor to the most unproductive members of society and wasteful government spending People arent having kids because they cannot afford to because the government takes their money and gives it to people who dont work at all. That system might feel good, but it cannot sustain itself. It will collapse. Society needs to reward productive families, right now it punishes them.
So in addition to funding govt provided schools, childcare, children’s healthcare etc. those who choose not to have children would be taxed extra, despite not utilising any of the things the govt is funding? What about people who don’t belong to any religion? If you’re not religious you don’t get a tax break? What about unmarried couples who have children? What about married couples who desperately want children but are infertile? Or don’t meet the adoption criteria? They should be punished? Punishing everyone who doesn’t produce more wage slaves isn’t something I think should be pushed by any government.
It sounds like you like the status quo that is clearly failing
No, there’s clearly systemic issues in Greece to do with older generations taking retirement early and with massively overinflated pensions caused by a lack of foresight in previous decades. Giving parents massive tax breaks and punishing working age, employed people for not having children is stupid. Especially as even with the tax breaks most people would still be poorer as their tax burden is less than the cost of having a child would be. To be frank, I don’t give a fuck about Greece’s economy, I’m not Greek and I don’t plan to live there. If your problem is people who aren’t ‘productive’ then guess what, unemployed people aren’t paying taxes anyway, so you’re not hurting them by lower taxes for parents. Plenty of unemployed people have children, so both the parents and children are funded by the govt but they don’t provide anything back, they get off free in your plan though? Have you realised that anyone who is a multimillionaire would suddenly be paying 0% tax by having a child every 12 years? Men can have kids in their 80s. How much tax income would be lost? How the fuck does the state function when suddenly 50% of the country pays 0% tax?
Why only married? There are stable long term couples who are not married.
Nice reverse Bachelor tax. If they'd tax me more for not being married or living with a partner, I'd dial down my contribution to society accordingly.
Ehh people aren’t having kids because yes it’s expensive but also because it’s way to much responsibility
I think finances is the #1 factor that prevents couples who want kids from having kids If people dont want the responsibility, its likely they just flat out dont want kids at all
It's 100% the finances that are a large factor. Anytime someone I knew that wanted or even contemplated having kids was asked why they didn't the answer was literally "money".
And needing childcare is likely #2 - which, of course, can also be taken care of with more money. Or could have government programs offering it for free or whatnot.
What most parents actually want is 1 person to be able to stay at home taking care of the kids while the other works The reason that doesnt work for most people, is because they dont bring home enough money to make that financially possible Again, its a matter of finances