Companies really need to do an analysis of “what would happen if x person quit?” Not very bright to make the one person who is keeping the entire company running feel unappreciated and replaceable.
The best advice I was given growing up regarding work was to make yourself irreplaceable to a company to secure your job. Learn every task you can, show initiative if they encourage it, etc.
If they're a good company and they recognize you for your efforts, you can end up with a really good job; if they're a bad company and fuck you over, you can *really* make it hurt.
That's exactly what I realized. The reason I left my previous job was because I kept being promised I would be moved up to a programming position. I had ten years experience with hobby/small scale lasers. Never materialized.
I was busy with this attitude of making myself irreplaceable when a middle-manager softly told me that “that’s not how it works.” I reevaluated, course-corrected and now I act my wage and keep my eyes open for when and where to jump ship.
Once we can get rid of golden parachutes for CEOs, they'll have to rely on performance. THAT is when they realize maintaining your good people makes more money.
Ive always been FOR golden parachutes, but they must be literally made of gold into a parachute shape and when they get them, they jump out of a plane like any other skydiver.
Likewise, I wish more CEOs were exactly like Stockton Rush, putting themselves on the line for their awful decisions.
Also made a good retort anytime someone pretends that billionaires are the epitome of wisdom and intelligence. Really doesn't take all that much wisdom to not become bloodmist at the bottom of the ocean.
> ~~The~~ MBA programs ~~of the later 80s/90s were~~ *are* truly terrible
FTFY
Business should not be a major. I have no problem with business classes, or even business degrees-as a minor. But if you’re majoring in just “business”, you just admitted that you *don’t have any good ideas* and you need to go learn something, *anything* else.
You must be at least this well-rounded to do business: 🔘
IMO, Business majors are just cult members like Chiropractors.
A few years ago some Forbes article came out about how Blizzard could better monetize Starcraft II. By charging for patches.
Only a MBA could come up with a plan like that.
Nah. Plenty of non-MBAs come up with crap like that. Someone who really paid attention getting their degree would probably see the diminishing returns of that.
I'm in IT. I got an MBA. I learned a lot. I'm still in IT, but it definitely helped me deal with issues.
My original degree? Geography. Pre-GIS, so I didn't get in on that.
Like I said, I don’t have a problem with business degrees, I have a problem with people who go in and take business classes and the barest minimum of anything else. If you’re going to go into college and major in something as vague as just “business”, you really do *need* to be held down and force-fed literally any other part of the human experience.
For what it’s worth, I also think the minimum humanities requirements should be higher for pretty much any degree. People should not be able to easily set aside the human element, but seeing it is a skill and letting people graduate any level of schooling without practicing it every single day is a complete failure of education.
My whole thing is their business runs solely on mathematics they're not required to go fully in depth through. They couldn't make the projections they look at so how could they ever accurately read them, my guess is they don't, they never understood the economics of your product never makes any more money without supply/demand increases or engineering advancements and they only know how to make money off their employees lack of raises.
My thought is that thinking like a business person is actually necessary, but only in short bursts. It’s not a healthy or even really *sane* way to think long-term. It is important to be able to disengage emotionally with employees to keep the business itself running so that you can keep those same employees employed (the obvious example being that you have to be able to fire the useless dipshit with a sob story to keep all the hardworking non-dipshits who may or may not have sob stories of their own). But that emotional distance has to be something temporary, something you can turn on and off-it sure doesn’t need to be all the way on when evaluating PTO requests. Sometimes the business just needs to be shorthanded for a little while so that life can happen.
Also, tribalism is extremely natural and instinctive for humans. That doesn’t mean it’s *good*. Feeling like it’s management vs employees is easy and natural and very, very wrong. Resisting that urge is a skill, and like any skill it needs to be taught and practiced. And it’s been shown over and over and over again that the best way to teach it is to show the person-hood of all people. It takes a seriously, diagnosably sick mind to resist that when actually faced by out-group people being *people*. Most people just expand their mental in-group. Most businesses do their best to ensure that this doesn’t happen.
Work-life balance is also a skill issue, so actively teach that too. Require a creative or physical outlet for every business class. Either concurrent enrollment in an art (performance or studio, I’m not picky) or PE class, or proof of regular attendance at a community center art time or a pickup sports league (literally a bunch of time-stamped selfies will work). Work-life balance as homework so that you develop the habit and understand the importance for your own health.
(Personally, I’d accept anything from semi-regular D&D sessions to being active in the local BDSM scene for the outlet requirement, but that’s gonna be up to the prof’s personal TMI threshold. Just do *something* to reaffirm that you work to live, never live to work.)
“…Personally, l'd accept anything from semi-regular D&D sessions to being active in the local BDSM scene for the outlet
requirement…”
I haven’t yet but SURE the name checks out. And hello fellow outlet practitioner. 🙌🏻
I play D&D and make things. I have friends in the scene, though, and it’s very clear to me that it absolutely counts as both a creative and physical outlet. I mean, what is roleplay except improv with the horniness dial set to max?
Turned up to 11!
And exactly. Roleplay is exceedingly creative. So are the many varied tools of the trade small crafters build. I have met the most intelligent, creative (not to mention honest, open, authentic etc.) people in the scene that I ever have. So much requires great attention to detail, deep knowledge especially to do things safely, ability to remember boundaries, rules, limits etc. Sadly the media and that horrid horrid set of movies give the community a bad reputation. Are there predators and consent violations, injuries etc. Yup. Welcome to life eh? 🤷🏻♂️
Oh absofuckinglutely! That’s my main kink (with high heels thrown in for good measure - duh right?) and I love creating with rope. Fell in love with the practice when I first joined the scene. Talking knots with the artists is great. I also climb and there’s a lot of crossover - anchors, load balancing, safety considerations…
You'd need to be able to think outside of yourself though. And judging by the story they can't. It's all me me me..
I worked for a metal Company with a CNC machine, a small one. And my colleague worked on a big 4-5 axis one from Italy, one that costs like 300/400.000 euros. He's the only one trained for it. He's a good guy and if he needs something, they make sure he gets it. From the occasional time off to equipment for the machine. And in return he just runs overtime whenever it's needed. They know that they'd be fcked if he left. It's a win-win for everyone though. A mutual respect and understanding. It keeps all the gears turning smoothly
Oh, but they should have it! There's a part of the ISO:9001 where you should analyze the team and assess what will happen if THAT team member goes away, what are the chances of it happening and what can you do about it (or, at least, this is the approach our consultant teached us).
Competent management shouldn't have to look to ISO 9001 to know that, though. Common fricking sense should tell them when they've developed a hard dependency in their organizational structure that could be harmful to the company if it fails, and take steps to mitigate that risk. The fact that they only had one qualified laser operator on the work schedule should have been a screaming red flag to them. Edit: one qualified laser operator **per shift**
Exactly, my wife and I have science degrees.
She recently did an online MBA (bc her company paid for it) and not one class on there was harder than our intro to biology class in undergrad. Its a fucking joke
I realized that we needed some cross-training in my office when one of the Supervisors had a medical emergency. We were left scrambling the day of to cover his duties. When he was out the rest of the week it turned into a straighter dumpster fire, that everyone told me good luck then promptly ignored the situation.
This office was an Army units operations room. All actions, promotions, awards, vehicle and range reservations, trainings, Arms room coordination and more passed through us. That week I realized more than half of that list was handled by the one guy who was out.
I got us the cross training we needed and we managed to cover down for every position in the office when someone was out and we ran fairly smooth. The hiccup came from having 5 out of 6 of the soldiers running the ops room leave at the same time. Leaving the Army or just leaving the unit they had months of warning plus our constant reminders that we needed to start training replacements. We were ignored until my literal last day after lunch when I was asked to write a follow on document for my unnamed replacement. I managed to copy down some useful file paths and links but that was it.
Found out from the 1 guy that was left that it took them 9 months and an inquiry from the Group commander before they managed to unfuck the mess they created for themselves.
Not at this job but something similar happened at a place I worked at before COVID.
I was moving and gave my manager at that place *six week's notice.* Everything was fine, I kept asking when they wanted me to start training a replacement. They finally hired one four days before I was set to leave, and the manager was pissed I "couldn't stay on longer to make sure my replacement was properly trained."
Bitch, you had *a month and a half to hire someone for me to train them.* It's not my fault you dragged your ass to the last possible second.
The most Senior guy that left at the same time as me was getting out of the Army. He was asked to extend his contract or cancel some of his transition leave to help figure out the mess the command team created and train replacements. This guy had put his transition leave in 6 months in advance. According to my guy that stayed, he actually laughed when they asked him to extend his contract.
>Companies really need to do an analysis of “what would happen if x person quit?”
They do. All the time. OP's boss knew they could not let him leave.
The thing is, that gives the power to the worker. Rather than let the worker realize that by treating the worker well, bosses treat workers as replaceable and all so workers think they don't have job security and need to meet the unreasonable, if not illegal, demands. Thus putting the power back in the hands of management.
No. Companies don't need to analyze shit. We keep giving up our lives for the profits of bastards who want to see their bank accounts grow for the sake of growth. A lot of us let this happen because we would do the same if we were in that position. Enough. Reality's purpose is not to pump those numbers up. We as a species have decided that being parasites and leeches on our ecosystem is our reason for being. Can't be antiwork if we are okay with how things are.
I genuinely think that most, especially middle management types, have no idea about how truly irreplaceable some employees are. Sure, in the case of OP it may be more obvious but I feel like most of the time is not so obvious. I've seen that enough on this sub where the person is doing seemingly inconsequential work, or even work that most execs wouldn't even think about but 100% needs to be done (heck, look at the current issues Samsung foundries is having with their union... Samsung foundries is crucial not just to Samsung but to 100s of other companies and tech in general and yet... The folks who work the factories creating the stuff aren't getting paid enough)
Yeah. One of my jobs, I found out I was making significantly less than all my coworkers. I asked for a raise, and apparently the HR Director told my boss, “what is she gonna do, quit?“ I did just that.
Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly. The money is good, but that's all you're going to have. It's really difficult to work 60ish hours a week and have any time left for yourself, not to mention any kids/family you're also supporting. The work is also incredibly hard on your body.
My grandfather, who raised me, had a similar job and I barely got to see him growing up.
>Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly.
This is what I really don't understand. Like, if you have so much turnover due to the long hours you demand, why not just let people work fewer hours? That's less overtime pay you have to shell out. And you're not even going to have to do a ton more interviewing, as you'll make up for the larger head count with greater retention. Why not just have everyone on 40 hours per week? You're paying these people per hour, not salary. What's it matter the total number of employees? The total number of work hours is what you have to pay for.
*That* would make sense. But /u/ClockWeasel put it better downthread than I could:
>“Highest profit numbers” yep, skeleton crew with below-market pay and no cross training because the whole training budget is blown up by onboarding
>Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly.
No job *requires* the company to understaff and force everyone to work 1.5 full time jobs.
A lot of bluecollar workers are gaslit into believing all kinds of nonsense. As long as you understand they do this because ruining your life is zero concern to them, so they'll happily do so for a few extra bucks.
I'm not saying you need to change things singlehandedly, but corporate propaganda is what keeps blue collar workers from organizing and instead doing shit like, 'Working 14 hours the day before and after their wedding.'
They were hiring constantly with a very high turnover. My job still was fairly physically intensive but it was nothing compared to what the press brake operators and welders went through.
The shift was really unattractive to begin with, so most of the people on the shift were single and younger. The thing though is that press brake operators and welders are *ridiculously* in demand - far more so than my specialty - and can and do jump ship to different companies all the time that legitimately compete to have them.
If you know how to weld or know how to work a press brake, you will *never* be out of work.
I think, ultimately, it caused a really bad feedback loop. When you're shortstaffed to the point you're asking the staff to work in 12 hour shifts, it's hard to attract enough people to be *able* to have a third shift.
The way to break out of that feedback loop is with money.
The turnover rate is high, because the BS is not worth the money. So the company just needs to keep upping the money until the BS becomes worth it.
Is press brake work that difficult to learn? Welding I'm familiar with (I learned arc welding and MIG as part of my mechanical engineering degree), but I've never had any hands-on time on a press brake.
Not really - the trick is getting your foot in the door. It's pretty rare to find vocational training specifically for press brakes the way you can with welding.
The way you usually get started is to sign up at a company like this for general labor and show interest in working on the machines - if they're not too short staffed you can get cross training. Everything is programmed by higher ups and you just shove the metal in the machine and bend it according to the preprogrammed specifications.
The hardest part of press brakes is staying alert enough not to pinch/sever hands and fingers when the metal folds up around it. Nobody lost a finger, but over the last few years I've seen people lose nails and two people partially degloving their thumb.
They couldn't leave well enough alone, now could they? If they cared about you even a smidgen, they should know that when people are upfront about their medical issues, you need to accommodate them or it won't end well. Considering how you described how the place was run, it won't be long before they're sold (and probably to a private equity firm, who will really ram it home deep). Congratulations on your escape. They fucked around and found out.
The most hilarious thing about the entire incident was that, about a week after I quit that job (and had reposted my resume on Indeed) I had a recruiter call me telling me that I would be perfect for a job opportunity that seemed right up my alley, running the exact model of industrial laser I had been running.
I asked her what the company was, she wouldn't tell me. I asked "Is this a position with company \[x\]?"
She went silent for a minute and asked me how I knew that. Told her that I was the reason they needed a new laser operator because it was my old position.
I have to admire her; she wasn't expecting it and asked me if I would consider working there again if she could "negotiate a better rate for me than what you were making. They seem really desperate."
I told her to let them know I would come back for $75 an hour, working 4 days a week, with those days set in stone, and they'd have to get rid of the dumbfuck useless HR manager.
Funnily enough, I never got a call back :(
Yeah, if HR had a spine, they'd have told your supervisor "he's got the paperwork, you know it as well as I do, it's not happening. He gets his time off, you get off his back, everything keeps working. Don't fuck up the big contract."
But no.
Kudos for sticking with the program!
The company had a profit sharing program that the HR manager, boss, and supervisor were fairly heavily invested in due to the time they had worked there. Based on the amount of shares they acquired from their seniority, their bonuses *were* going to be around $3k that quarter...
Which I think is perfectly fine. I don’t really hold it against HR that they’re in it to protect the company. Where I take issue is when HR start protecting certain people over the company, or simply are too non confrontational to address issues.
This story is a great example. If you’re going to work in HR, you need to understand people. After speaking to this guy, the HR director should have been able to determine that this was an important issue (medical issues almost always are), and that being in a specialized trade it would be incredibly easy for him to move on and utterly bone the company.
So at least in this instance, HRs inaction directly hurt the company by not addressing an issue I think almost anyone could see coming from a mile away.
Thing that blows my fucking mind is that OP HAD documentation that he provided. Yet, you take a day off and they need a Dr. note to know you were sick. I mean do you need it and will honor it? or not?
You'd think that, but recruiters/headhunters can be very stupid people. I'm willing to bet she probably just did a search for everyone with the key words "laser operator," contacting everyone without looking too closely at the resumes themselves.
If they cared about the big picture even a single smidgen, they would have seen the writing on the wall and realized how valuable this person was. More the fool them.
My favorite part of this is that the company has three shifts for the laser cutter, and THREE operators.
“Look, I can find a laser machine operator anywhere. These guys are disposable. Work em till they drop. No big deal.” - former supervisor, probably.
And no one said “these are the ONLY people who know how to do this, TREAT THEM LIKE ROCKSTARS.”
So weird.
Bingo!
That was another thing they promised me that I was starting to get peeved off about. They wanted me to crosstrain on the other machines in the shop, and those are skills I wanted to learn!
But nope, I was too good at the one task I did that I got pigeonholed. Not great for improving my skills and marketability in said skills, but god damn it felt good to set off that nuke when I left that place.
> traditional Monday-Friday shift, 7am to 7pm
It's so sad that something like this has been normalized internally. Don't call 12 hours x 5 days a *traditional* shift. It is 60hrs and *exploitative*. That is explicitly illegal in many jurisdictions outside the USA.
Yeah I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. If you have documentation of everything this seems like you could potentially have a case? Could ask on the lawyer subreddit
This was very illegal. HR would have been doing the company a favor to find a spine at that point and tell the manager to back down. It probably would be with OPs time to cross post on r/legaladvice to see what they say.
I had thought about trying to fight it, but there was no point. I had already quit and was going through some heavy mental issues at the time(I had just suffered a bad breakup and my cat passing); I just wanted to wash my hands of them and be done with them.
My state is horrible for worker's rights. There's no guarantee I would have been able to win or get anything done.
Besides, whatever trouble I *might* have gotten them into pales in comparison to the damage my leaving did to them, and that thought makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
I wasn't sure if I should post it here or post it there because it didn't feel like a malicious compliance situation, but looking back on it, you're right! He told me to make a decision, so I did!
Ya know what's crazy those C suite types probably didn't even bat an eyelash. Just looted the remaining company coffers and are now fixing to bite into the next company to tank it.
Total failure and they are probably all still rich as fuck.
Surprised manager even took off for his wedding.
Why not have it in warehouses??
I mean you still gotta work, amiright?
Dumb ass company.
Good on you for staying with the program. I hope you are working in ‘you’ and making ‘you’ a better person.
Health always comes first. Sorry. Doctors appointment. Hard to reschedule
I had to tell my new boss yesterday that my doctor called with a last minute opening for an appointment tomorrow for something I'd otherwise have to wait until mid-August on.
She let me switch my day off, no problem.
Feels good to be respected again.
Yeah, really. "Hun, it only takes five minutes to say 'I do'. I don't want to lose a lot of time at work, so let's do it on my lunch break. We'll have at least a whole 30 minutes so we can celebrate a bit too!!"
>He got married last year, and he took no time off for his wedding - he worked a full shift on Friday, got married Saturday, and was back at work on Sunday morning.
This is absolutely how you end up with a wife who spends all your money and is banging other dudes. Everything has a price, and being constantly absent from your marriage, that's the price.
A friend of mine pulled together thousands of dollars to treat his parents to an anniversary trip overseas. He gets head-hunted after paying for the tickets and everything. Agrees to work provided the overseas trip is open--he doesn't even need vacation pay, he's okay with not getting paid for the weeks he'll be off "Sure! Sure! Sure! Sure! It's all good! Welcome aboard!"
He starts work, the trip is 3 months away. Everything's fine. Until....."Oh, yes, I see you're down for vacation time in two weeks. Problem is, that's a problem. We can't spare you, there's too many people already off for those weeks."
Friend stood up without a word and "Byeeee!!" Walked out, never to return.
A friend of mine (also in HVAC) had something similar happen. He -had- to go to physiotherapy regularly. His back gave out if he didn't. I spent a more than few nights socializing him while he laid on a table. Laying on a table was all he was capable of if he didn't get his physio.
Eventually his work had some sort of issue with him. I don't know the story, but they *demanded* he come in (he did HVAC installs) and miss his physio. If he does, he's fine for a few days, then stuck on a table by the time the weekend hits for the entire weekend. He had me meet him and gave me his work phone etc to turn in on his behalf. Which I did.
Me doing that probably only saved my buddy 5mins. But it saved dealing with whatever bullshit they were going to pull when he got there. Which was likely a waste-of-time shitcanning. I was very happy to quit a job for someone else.
The point of this story is that you never have to take crap you don't want from a job. You don't even have to deal with telling them you quit. Leave a letter like OP or have someone else interact on your behalf.
Unreal. Another case where good thing are murdered by bad management.
I’m told this is largely why companies fail, and this one feels good and petty. F them. I wish we could all be there with popcorn when it finally got back to the pivotal ‘what made xxxx quit’ and HR clears their throat and retells the scene as the shrugging observer. 🍿
>He got married last year, and he took no time off for his wedding - he worked a full shift on Friday, got married Saturday, and was back at work on Sunday morning.
Anyone want to take bets on how long the ex-boss and his wife last for?
Good on you! I just got the call for a surgery this month and they tried fucking me around too. Canceled my holidays I had booked during next month (I'll be recuperating anyways) and booked the next couple weeks off instead to get everything sorted for surgery and relax.
All because I asked to wfh for a week so I wouldn't get sick when people are hacking in the office. We are in a few really big projects that onoy I have the tech skills for in our team, so it'll be fun to see what they blow up while I'm gone
I hate that it's the company that seems like they're trying to bend over backwards for *you* when it's really the opposite.
"Hey boss, I'm going to be recovering from surgery so I can't come into the office. Is it allright if I work from home that week?"
"No. You need to be here."
"Actually, I decided I'm taking the full time off needed to recover. See you back at the office whenever!"
*shocked Pikachu face*
Contrast that with the large not-for-profit I work for. I get slammed with a stage 4 cancer diagnosis in February.
Boss: your health is the most important thing. Anything we can do to support you, let us know.
This is echoed by bosses 3 levels up.
Coworkers say the same. Work is shuffled around. Some give to younger employees to give them opportunities for skill development and exposure.
I’m out for 2 months for radiation- they check in on me all the time.
I had no desire to leave before this. Sure as shit I’m going back when I’m able and making sure I support them like they’ve supported me.
This was extremely satisfying to read, obviously not their abuse of you or your medical stuff, but I’m so happy they fucked around and found out.
Best of luck to you!!
I would have told that HR person that either he fires that jackass of a manager that is mentally insane. Or the company loses one of its 3 laser operators. And since the company is way to blind to realize that the reason they can't keep employees is because of the lack of a work-life balance. They will not be able to find another laser operator for quite a while. So if HR was smart. They would have a talk with one of their higher-ups and fire that crazy manager.
Honestly, I'm glad I got out, and for now I'm probably done with fabrication as a whole. My new job is doing maintenance and construction for an Escape Room/Ren Faire company moonlighting doing construction and propwork for a few local theatre groups.
The hourly pay is greater but there's no overtime; I'll gladly take the hit to my income to work 4 days a week, have near total autonomy to fix issues and do design work, and have a boss that trusts me enough not to micromanage me.
That is great. I’m “retiring” from 30 years in the entertainment industry this year and looking forward to what comes next. Hopefully I can find something like you have
My daughter is starting a new job Monday. They gave her 3 days to train her replacement. When she left, the woman was crying because of the amount of information and how confused she was. My daughter did several things that no one else knew how to do. My husband says she needs to get them to hire her and a consultant
I love when jobs get notice but they wait to hire someone at the last minute to be trained and can't possibly get caught up in that limited time. Oh well, fuck 'em!
Holy shit this had me fuming.
From the asshole workaholic bootlicker that values his work over his own MARRIGE, to the snarky slap on the back "Great! See you Friday."
Dude deserves a punch to the jaw, that's all I'm saying.
I'm absolutely amazed at how greedy these fuckers are.
You have a great employee WILLING to work 12-14 hour days just to get a Friday off. How the fuck do you let that go?
The fucking greed man.
The god damn fucking greed.
For the manager who worked right around his wedding, I'm sure his wife is going to loooooovvvveeeeee all that free time and I can't even imagine once kids come into the picture.
And I understand that the other employees would’ve preferred a Monday through Friday situation but if one of your key people can’t make Fridays then either you work around it or you don’t have them
> Around the middle of spring, they got backed up because one of the machines went down. I was asked if I could make an exception to my day off and come in on Friday, pretty pretty please. Me, being an idiot, I agreed to it and cancelled my appointment that week, thinking it would be a one-off because the machine was only down for a day. Shit legitimately happens.
> Once I made an exception the first time, you can see where this is going. A few weeks later they asked me to do it again - not because the machine went down, but because they had just overextended themselves on a really expensive contract with a _very_ big company. I objected, stating my medical exemption, and they pulled someone else in to work the shift. This happened a few times, and I did end up rearranging a few appointments because, again, I was an idiot.
I know it's phrasing, but, obviously, you're not an idiot.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Obviously, you were working for idiots. So the only thing "wrong" you did was not picking up on that sooner before being nice by doing them a favour. I hope you continue to be nice to people, your co-workers, and even your current employer.
The life lesson I learned is never to do favours for fools, because fools just think that your charity is a weakness and their inadequacies is their cleverness.
You're right. I legitimately had no problem coming in the first time because it's a delicate machine and things just break from time to time. Everyone who's worked in a shop knows that circumstance.
But yeah, my mistake was letting them do it in non-"emergency" situations.
I'm glad all things worked out for you OP. Been in a similar situation myself and also approaching 40. Feels a bit bad leaving, but once you've done it and settled into a better position, the grass truly is greener on the side.
Hade a job at a casino where they promised me a week end off for my buddy's wedding who was a slot teck lead there when i was hired, fast forward to the week of the wedding and they said they didn't know if they could give me the days so I said I'm not missing the wedding basically I'm not coming in and they then proceeded to try to tell my buddy that they couldn't give him the time for his honeymoon that he had put in for and had approved a year ago. Neither me or my friend work there anymore luckily
This is the essential problem with companies that run with a C suite… no one on that level (with very few exceptions) is ever aware of how the company actually generates revenue on a nitty gritty level. Smaller companies, less than like a billion in revenue, probably shouldn’t have a c-suite at all. Employee managed businesses usually come out ahead in the small to mid tier revenue brackets.
The “rainforest company” has to have an executive level because of its size, but the company contracting the HVAC system for a single distribution center should have had a more direct line between OP and the owner.
I had a job with a company that made a unique piece of durable medical equipment. When I started, they were small but growing, and doing well.
The owner got greedy, and hired a director of sales to push the product to more markets, and do so by having giant expensive displays at medical equipment fairs.
I was one of two RNs who gave in services to case managers at health insurance companies, demonstrating the uses for the device and justifying the cost in savings over time.
There were three problems. First of all, the company had never bothered to sponsor clear studies of the device VS other methods for the uses it had.
Second, health insurance companies don’t care about costs down the road. They care about NOW.
And third, of course, the cost of increasing the sales budget by about 500%, between the showy nonsense and additional sales people meant that profits dropped.
My title changed four times in two years, although my duties never did.
There was never, in all the time that I was there, or my predecessors, an attempt to or expectation of quantification of the effects of our work with case managers, so after the fourth title change, my position was eliminated,,and I was offered a desk job at equal pay, but it would never have an increase, as it was the top of the scale for the job I was offered.
I said thanks but no thanks. Worked two more weeks, too my severance and left. Along with an unused airline ticket that had to belong to me, because of laws about the named passenger.
Within three months I was working at a medical software company, training RNs on the software for a 15% increase in pay.
I really enjoyed reading your story . Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences . YOU have value and I’m glad you recognized it and you were actually really good with boundaries , I applaud that . You were so generous even allowing ONE Friday of your time and shifting around your medical appointment. Hearing the company getting fucked and the little guy winning warms my heart ❤️ These feel good stories is why I come back to this sub . I see courage in employees in their interactions with their managers . It’s not easy to say no , or to walk away yet you did both gracefully .
Not sure if anyone mentioned this and also I’m not a lawyer but have had personal experience in this. After a year of employment you would have been eligible for FMLA. Assuming the info you gave the company about your health hit the right notes, HR should have provided you with documents to take FMLA and be protected from Friday work as it’s a reasonable accommodation. The way this operates is that the company is liable the moment you raise a need for FMLA leave (in this case, intermittent) and has to send you the paperwork to fill out. From that point on it’s on you to fill it out.
There’s an asklawyers subreddit you could post to that could probably give more information if you are interested in exploring that. But more importantly, reading this story that HR rep dropped the ball so hard that the company is a time bomb for a lawsuit from someone in the future.
I wasn't there long enough to qualify for FMLA. Total time of employment was ~9 months.
I'm very happy at my new job, and now that it's been a few months after this happened, it seems pretty pointless to try and go after them legally. Plus, I don't really have the motivation or want to do it, given how things ended up.
I know I fucked them over royally by leaving and to me that feels better/is worth more than anything I could have gotten from a potential suit. I might have won a little bit of money from it if it went my way, but the company wouldn't have lost the contract which was worth *far* more than I ever would have won from them.
Yep. There is zero loyalty or respect for hard workers. I put in a two weeks after being denied 3 promotions. Before I quit i realized i was doing my managers job and i reported all her duties back to her. She lost her job after she tried to bad mouth me saying i caused issues (i am a long standing former employees kid so her word was pretty useless) and since i left 3 peoole followed snd anyone new quits after a month. Its sad they they denied me the opportunity to be able to be able to afford my bills and now they can't keep anyone bc theres no training or supportive management.
I hate you went through so much, OP. But I'm really glad you stuck up for yourself, stayed in the treatment program you fought for, and cost that shitty employer so much money with Rainforest Company. I've never been more proud of a stranger ❤️
>At the six month mark of my tenure there, I was the most senior employee on my shift except the supervisor.
That tells me everything I need to know.
>HVAC ducting with an insanely quick turnaround time
are you sure that quick turnaround time isn't the way they treat their employees?
>four missed calls from my company
aint your company no mo fam, twaint never your company
>I can't even *imagine* the shit that the C-suite execs threw at my old boss and HR supervisor over that happening.
Honest question... Do you think your story made the way all up there? Even if you wrote it in your resignation letter, do you think any person in suit bothered to look that deep into this?
I mean in the end fuck your old boss and HR and fuck the company, but I would think everyone was in a position to cover their asses here
I doubt it did beyond them saying something like "Yeah, one of our guys quit without notice like a fucking unprofessional asshole," with no further followup or questioning on it.
It's the easiest way to go about it - blame the employee that's gone, keep your head in the sand, and keep going about your business where you'll eventually get fucked over again because no changes will be investigated or made.
If it was a one time thing that you wanted off for I would say just to tell them I won’t be here and I’ll see you on Monday and you can tell me if I have a job or not but when it’s every Friday and they didn’t adhere to their promise then you did what you had to do
This is by far the best and most effective way for an employee to have the upper hand over any company.
Be valuable. Know your value. Use that value as leverage.
If they don’t compromise, go elsewhere and leave them high and dry.
This was a textbook example of a Beer Truck Operation as illustrated by "If John Q Worker gets hit by a beer truck, we're going to be screwed." I've been that key guy several times in my career and I hate when it happens every time. My response to it is entirely based on how my employer treats me. If they do right by me, I do right by them and make sure my 'indispensable' knowledge and/or talent gets spread around to others. That way if, for whatever reason, I'm no longer around, they'll be okay. If they're schmucks, I quit and let them deal with the fallout of being schmucks.
Advice for the future. Ask for a reasonable accommodation for fridays off. They have to prove that you working 14 hrs shift doesn’t work for them and they are under no obligation unless you are in california to pay you OT unless you work over 40 hrs a week. Once you are in a place a year (assuming your employer is large enough) file for FMLA if you are in the USA.
Man, the best thing you can do is leave an indeed review telling people you got a 4 day work week for X$ a year, and encouraging other people to negotiate for it.
I wouldn't even be untruthful!
Telling the CEO you were the on who caused this in post would be the icing on the cake, "you see what happened to your company? That's what happens when one manager doesn't value a person like me, fix your shit!" As well, your involvement with the company cost them X amount of dollars, doesn't that mean my work is worth at least X% of that plus the continued partnership? Who's position is more vital, yours or the CEO at that point? Who really made that deal possible, you or them?
Oh man this is wild! This sounds like some of BS that happened at my old job. (I worked for a HVAC wholesaler but I worked in the IT dept.)
The Fabricators and Welders were always getting the shit end of the stick, our warehouse guys too. The company I worked for only ever had 3 people trained to work the laser cutter too 😅 eerily similar stories lol.
I'm glad you got yourself out of there, your health is 10x more important than some job that won't respect your boundaries.
If this was in the US, or other similar country, what you did was request a reasonable accommodation due to a disabily. So your employer taking it away without offering an effective alternative would break a law (at least in the US). This then led you to quit because you could not continue to work without it. So that could have been a pretty little federal lawsuit.
Lol, do you work under Helios? That place was a shit show when I worked there and does HVAC work for Amazon as well. Management was a joke inside the office.
Companies really need to do an analysis of “what would happen if x person quit?” Not very bright to make the one person who is keeping the entire company running feel unappreciated and replaceable.
The best advice I was given growing up regarding work was to make yourself irreplaceable to a company to secure your job. Learn every task you can, show initiative if they encourage it, etc. If they're a good company and they recognize you for your efforts, you can end up with a really good job; if they're a bad company and fuck you over, you can *really* make it hurt.
The problem with irreplaceability is that is can prevent upward mobility
That's exactly what I realized. The reason I left my previous job was because I kept being promised I would be moved up to a programming position. I had ten years experience with hobby/small scale lasers. Never materialized.
Unfortunately management would saw their own dicks off if it meant a temporary reprieve in expenses
I've seen very few hard workers advance, what I have seen is lazy, incompetent dumb fucks advance......a lot and it's infuriating
It really depends on the industry. In the software industry you see it all the times.
Doing good work earns more work, not promotions. Do next to nothing and become friends with the boss, kick his/her ass until it shines, buy a Ferrari
I sometimes call it the “curse of competence.” Hard workers also don’t have time to shmooze.
It's called the Peter Principle. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter\_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle)
>kick his/her ass If only that's how it worked.
I was busy with this attitude of making myself irreplaceable when a middle-manager softly told me that “that’s not how it works.” I reevaluated, course-corrected and now I act my wage and keep my eyes open for when and where to jump ship.
That’s why they say: make yourself indispensable, not irreplaceable.
Story of my current predicament which I’ve worked so hard to get to.
Also, as in this case, messes with time off. "Sorry, we can't afford to let you have a vacation this year... you are too irreplaceable."
I'm sadly feeling that. Bright side job security is really high, I'm also searching for another job 😅
Indispensable is unpromotable
as you can see from this example, being irreplaceable won't prevent this type of shit.
This makes me feel alot better
Once we can get rid of golden parachutes for CEOs, they'll have to rely on performance. THAT is when they realize maintaining your good people makes more money.
Ive always been FOR golden parachutes, but they must be literally made of gold into a parachute shape and when they get them, they jump out of a plane like any other skydiver. Likewise, I wish more CEOs were exactly like Stockton Rush, putting themselves on the line for their awful decisions.
Amen to that. The ONLY good part of that Titan implosion fiasco is that asshole CEO Rush died along with his victims.
Also made a good retort anytime someone pretends that billionaires are the epitome of wisdom and intelligence. Really doesn't take all that much wisdom to not become bloodmist at the bottom of the ocean.
I wish we knew how to get any reforms done. I think we have demonstrated that we do not.
The MBA programs of the later 80s/90s were truly terrible….
> ~~The~~ MBA programs ~~of the later 80s/90s were~~ *are* truly terrible FTFY Business should not be a major. I have no problem with business classes, or even business degrees-as a minor. But if you’re majoring in just “business”, you just admitted that you *don’t have any good ideas* and you need to go learn something, *anything* else. You must be at least this well-rounded to do business: 🔘
IMO, Business majors are just cult members like Chiropractors. A few years ago some Forbes article came out about how Blizzard could better monetize Starcraft II. By charging for patches. Only a MBA could come up with a plan like that.
Nah. Plenty of non-MBAs come up with crap like that. Someone who really paid attention getting their degree would probably see the diminishing returns of that.
I'm in IT. I got an MBA. I learned a lot. I'm still in IT, but it definitely helped me deal with issues. My original degree? Geography. Pre-GIS, so I didn't get in on that.
Like I said, I don’t have a problem with business degrees, I have a problem with people who go in and take business classes and the barest minimum of anything else. If you’re going to go into college and major in something as vague as just “business”, you really do *need* to be held down and force-fed literally any other part of the human experience. For what it’s worth, I also think the minimum humanities requirements should be higher for pretty much any degree. People should not be able to easily set aside the human element, but seeing it is a skill and letting people graduate any level of schooling without practicing it every single day is a complete failure of education.
My whole thing is their business runs solely on mathematics they're not required to go fully in depth through. They couldn't make the projections they look at so how could they ever accurately read them, my guess is they don't, they never understood the economics of your product never makes any more money without supply/demand increases or engineering advancements and they only know how to make money off their employees lack of raises.
My thought is that thinking like a business person is actually necessary, but only in short bursts. It’s not a healthy or even really *sane* way to think long-term. It is important to be able to disengage emotionally with employees to keep the business itself running so that you can keep those same employees employed (the obvious example being that you have to be able to fire the useless dipshit with a sob story to keep all the hardworking non-dipshits who may or may not have sob stories of their own). But that emotional distance has to be something temporary, something you can turn on and off-it sure doesn’t need to be all the way on when evaluating PTO requests. Sometimes the business just needs to be shorthanded for a little while so that life can happen. Also, tribalism is extremely natural and instinctive for humans. That doesn’t mean it’s *good*. Feeling like it’s management vs employees is easy and natural and very, very wrong. Resisting that urge is a skill, and like any skill it needs to be taught and practiced. And it’s been shown over and over and over again that the best way to teach it is to show the person-hood of all people. It takes a seriously, diagnosably sick mind to resist that when actually faced by out-group people being *people*. Most people just expand their mental in-group. Most businesses do their best to ensure that this doesn’t happen. Work-life balance is also a skill issue, so actively teach that too. Require a creative or physical outlet for every business class. Either concurrent enrollment in an art (performance or studio, I’m not picky) or PE class, or proof of regular attendance at a community center art time or a pickup sports league (literally a bunch of time-stamped selfies will work). Work-life balance as homework so that you develop the habit and understand the importance for your own health. (Personally, I’d accept anything from semi-regular D&D sessions to being active in the local BDSM scene for the outlet requirement, but that’s gonna be up to the prof’s personal TMI threshold. Just do *something* to reaffirm that you work to live, never live to work.)
“…Personally, l'd accept anything from semi-regular D&D sessions to being active in the local BDSM scene for the outlet requirement…” I haven’t yet but SURE the name checks out. And hello fellow outlet practitioner. 🙌🏻
I play D&D and make things. I have friends in the scene, though, and it’s very clear to me that it absolutely counts as both a creative and physical outlet. I mean, what is roleplay except improv with the horniness dial set to max?
Turned up to 11! And exactly. Roleplay is exceedingly creative. So are the many varied tools of the trade small crafters build. I have met the most intelligent, creative (not to mention honest, open, authentic etc.) people in the scene that I ever have. So much requires great attention to detail, deep knowledge especially to do things safely, ability to remember boundaries, rules, limits etc. Sadly the media and that horrid horrid set of movies give the community a bad reputation. Are there predators and consent violations, injuries etc. Yup. Welcome to life eh? 🤷🏻♂️
No one will ever convince me that shibari/kinbaku isn’t an art form. I will laugh at anyone who tries and then go talk knots with the kinbaku artists.
Oh absofuckinglutely! That’s my main kink (with high heels thrown in for good measure - duh right?) and I love creating with rope. Fell in love with the practice when I first joined the scene. Talking knots with the artists is great. I also climb and there’s a lot of crossover - anchors, load balancing, safety considerations…
Their comprehension seems to stop at "number go up."
You'd need to be able to think outside of yourself though. And judging by the story they can't. It's all me me me.. I worked for a metal Company with a CNC machine, a small one. And my colleague worked on a big 4-5 axis one from Italy, one that costs like 300/400.000 euros. He's the only one trained for it. He's a good guy and if he needs something, they make sure he gets it. From the occasional time off to equipment for the machine. And in return he just runs overtime whenever it's needed. They know that they'd be fcked if he left. It's a win-win for everyone though. A mutual respect and understanding. It keeps all the gears turning smoothly
Oh, but they should have it! There's a part of the ISO:9001 where you should analyze the team and assess what will happen if THAT team member goes away, what are the chances of it happening and what can you do about it (or, at least, this is the approach our consultant teached us).
Competent management shouldn't have to look to ISO 9001 to know that, though. Common fricking sense should tell them when they've developed a hard dependency in their organizational structure that could be harmful to the company if it fails, and take steps to mitigate that risk. The fact that they only had one qualified laser operator on the work schedule should have been a screaming red flag to them. Edit: one qualified laser operator **per shift**
Exactly, my wife and I have science degrees. She recently did an online MBA (bc her company paid for it) and not one class on there was harder than our intro to biology class in undergrad. Its a fucking joke
I realized that we needed some cross-training in my office when one of the Supervisors had a medical emergency. We were left scrambling the day of to cover his duties. When he was out the rest of the week it turned into a straighter dumpster fire, that everyone told me good luck then promptly ignored the situation. This office was an Army units operations room. All actions, promotions, awards, vehicle and range reservations, trainings, Arms room coordination and more passed through us. That week I realized more than half of that list was handled by the one guy who was out. I got us the cross training we needed and we managed to cover down for every position in the office when someone was out and we ran fairly smooth. The hiccup came from having 5 out of 6 of the soldiers running the ops room leave at the same time. Leaving the Army or just leaving the unit they had months of warning plus our constant reminders that we needed to start training replacements. We were ignored until my literal last day after lunch when I was asked to write a follow on document for my unnamed replacement. I managed to copy down some useful file paths and links but that was it. Found out from the 1 guy that was left that it took them 9 months and an inquiry from the Group commander before they managed to unfuck the mess they created for themselves.
Not at this job but something similar happened at a place I worked at before COVID. I was moving and gave my manager at that place *six week's notice.* Everything was fine, I kept asking when they wanted me to start training a replacement. They finally hired one four days before I was set to leave, and the manager was pissed I "couldn't stay on longer to make sure my replacement was properly trained." Bitch, you had *a month and a half to hire someone for me to train them.* It's not my fault you dragged your ass to the last possible second.
The most Senior guy that left at the same time as me was getting out of the Army. He was asked to extend his contract or cancel some of his transition leave to help figure out the mess the command team created and train replacements. This guy had put his transition leave in 6 months in advance. According to my guy that stayed, he actually laughed when they asked him to extend his contract.
Yeah, I mean they could get hit by a bus or something. Anything could happen so that a backup would be needed.
>Companies really need to do an analysis of “what would happen if x person quit?” They do. All the time. OP's boss knew they could not let him leave. The thing is, that gives the power to the worker. Rather than let the worker realize that by treating the worker well, bosses treat workers as replaceable and all so workers think they don't have job security and need to meet the unreasonable, if not illegal, demands. Thus putting the power back in the hands of management.
No. Companies don't need to analyze shit. We keep giving up our lives for the profits of bastards who want to see their bank accounts grow for the sake of growth. A lot of us let this happen because we would do the same if we were in that position. Enough. Reality's purpose is not to pump those numbers up. We as a species have decided that being parasites and leeches on our ecosystem is our reason for being. Can't be antiwork if we are okay with how things are.
I'd suggest they start by reading *Failure Mode Analysis for Beginners*.
If they had done that, I would never have been fired in my entire life. This is not pride but facts speaking.
I find when even a manager does that the higher ups dont usually care.
It's called a bus factor and companies do indeed usually try to analyze for it
I genuinely think that most, especially middle management types, have no idea about how truly irreplaceable some employees are. Sure, in the case of OP it may be more obvious but I feel like most of the time is not so obvious. I've seen that enough on this sub where the person is doing seemingly inconsequential work, or even work that most execs wouldn't even think about but 100% needs to be done (heck, look at the current issues Samsung foundries is having with their union... Samsung foundries is crucial not just to Samsung but to 100s of other companies and tech in general and yet... The folks who work the factories creating the stuff aren't getting paid enough)
Having a bus factor of 1 is asking for trouble.
Having a bus factor of 1 is asking for trouble.
Yeah. One of my jobs, I found out I was making significantly less than all my coworkers. I asked for a raise, and apparently the HR Director told my boss, “what is she gonna do, quit?“ I did just that.
***how sometimes we have to sacrifice for work*** Like what? Your life?
Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly. The money is good, but that's all you're going to have. It's really difficult to work 60ish hours a week and have any time left for yourself, not to mention any kids/family you're also supporting. The work is also incredibly hard on your body. My grandfather, who raised me, had a similar job and I barely got to see him growing up.
>Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly. This is what I really don't understand. Like, if you have so much turnover due to the long hours you demand, why not just let people work fewer hours? That's less overtime pay you have to shell out. And you're not even going to have to do a ton more interviewing, as you'll make up for the larger head count with greater retention. Why not just have everyone on 40 hours per week? You're paying these people per hour, not salary. What's it matter the total number of employees? The total number of work hours is what you have to pay for.
*That* would make sense. But /u/ClockWeasel put it better downthread than I could: >“Highest profit numbers” yep, skeleton crew with below-market pay and no cross training because the whole training budget is blown up by onboarding
>Fabrication of any kind in an HVAC/sheet metal setting burns through a lot of people quickly. No job *requires* the company to understaff and force everyone to work 1.5 full time jobs.
There's also no regulations *against* it.
A lot of bluecollar workers are gaslit into believing all kinds of nonsense. As long as you understand they do this because ruining your life is zero concern to them, so they'll happily do so for a few extra bucks. I'm not saying you need to change things singlehandedly, but corporate propaganda is what keeps blue collar workers from organizing and instead doing shit like, 'Working 14 hours the day before and after their wedding.'
Because they managed to convince people unions were bad...
I'll stick with the field installing the duct, thankyouverymuch. Fuck shop work.
Serious question, why don't they just hire more people? Is it very hard to find people to do the work, or is it just short sighted money-grubbing?
They were hiring constantly with a very high turnover. My job still was fairly physically intensive but it was nothing compared to what the press brake operators and welders went through. The shift was really unattractive to begin with, so most of the people on the shift were single and younger. The thing though is that press brake operators and welders are *ridiculously* in demand - far more so than my specialty - and can and do jump ship to different companies all the time that legitimately compete to have them. If you know how to weld or know how to work a press brake, you will *never* be out of work. I think, ultimately, it caused a really bad feedback loop. When you're shortstaffed to the point you're asking the staff to work in 12 hour shifts, it's hard to attract enough people to be *able* to have a third shift.
The way to break out of that feedback loop is with money. The turnover rate is high, because the BS is not worth the money. So the company just needs to keep upping the money until the BS becomes worth it.
Is press brake work that difficult to learn? Welding I'm familiar with (I learned arc welding and MIG as part of my mechanical engineering degree), but I've never had any hands-on time on a press brake.
Not really - the trick is getting your foot in the door. It's pretty rare to find vocational training specifically for press brakes the way you can with welding. The way you usually get started is to sign up at a company like this for general labor and show interest in working on the machines - if they're not too short staffed you can get cross training. Everything is programmed by higher ups and you just shove the metal in the machine and bend it according to the preprogrammed specifications. The hardest part of press brakes is staying alert enough not to pinch/sever hands and fingers when the metal folds up around it. Nobody lost a finger, but over the last few years I've seen people lose nails and two people partially degloving their thumb.
They couldn't leave well enough alone, now could they? If they cared about you even a smidgen, they should know that when people are upfront about their medical issues, you need to accommodate them or it won't end well. Considering how you described how the place was run, it won't be long before they're sold (and probably to a private equity firm, who will really ram it home deep). Congratulations on your escape. They fucked around and found out.
The most hilarious thing about the entire incident was that, about a week after I quit that job (and had reposted my resume on Indeed) I had a recruiter call me telling me that I would be perfect for a job opportunity that seemed right up my alley, running the exact model of industrial laser I had been running. I asked her what the company was, she wouldn't tell me. I asked "Is this a position with company \[x\]?" She went silent for a minute and asked me how I knew that. Told her that I was the reason they needed a new laser operator because it was my old position. I have to admire her; she wasn't expecting it and asked me if I would consider working there again if she could "negotiate a better rate for me than what you were making. They seem really desperate." I told her to let them know I would come back for $75 an hour, working 4 days a week, with those days set in stone, and they'd have to get rid of the dumbfuck useless HR manager. Funnily enough, I never got a call back :(
Yeah, if HR had a spine, they'd have told your supervisor "he's got the paperwork, you know it as well as I do, it's not happening. He gets his time off, you get off his back, everything keeps working. Don't fuck up the big contract." But no. Kudos for sticking with the program!
The company had a profit sharing program that the HR manager, boss, and supervisor were fairly heavily invested in due to the time they had worked there. Based on the amount of shares they acquired from their seniority, their bonuses *were* going to be around $3k that quarter...
That's it? They tanked it over 3k? That's wild. They killed the golden goose over a pittance.
$3k? shit I'm a low level employee at my company and I get around 800-1k quarterly bonuses. What dumb shit were they thinking?
HR does have a spine - for the company.
That's not a spine, that's the forearm of the C-suite that's been inserted far enough up HR's ass to work the mouth.
Which I think is perfectly fine. I don’t really hold it against HR that they’re in it to protect the company. Where I take issue is when HR start protecting certain people over the company, or simply are too non confrontational to address issues. This story is a great example. If you’re going to work in HR, you need to understand people. After speaking to this guy, the HR director should have been able to determine that this was an important issue (medical issues almost always are), and that being in a specialized trade it would be incredibly easy for him to move on and utterly bone the company. So at least in this instance, HRs inaction directly hurt the company by not addressing an issue I think almost anyone could see coming from a mile away.
Thing that blows my fucking mind is that OP HAD documentation that he provided. Yet, you take a day off and they need a Dr. note to know you were sick. I mean do you need it and will honor it? or not?
Yeah, that's what they *should* be doing. It's not what they do though.
Don't you love it when they realized they screwed up not just wholesale but retail?
If your resume was updated then wouldn’t the recruiter have seen anyway who your last employer was?
You'd think that, but recruiters/headhunters can be very stupid people. I'm willing to bet she probably just did a search for everyone with the key words "laser operator," contacting everyone without looking too closely at the resumes themselves.
If they cared about the big picture even a single smidgen, they would have seen the writing on the wall and realized how valuable this person was. More the fool them.
My favorite part of this is that the company has three shifts for the laser cutter, and THREE operators. “Look, I can find a laser machine operator anywhere. These guys are disposable. Work em till they drop. No big deal.” - former supervisor, probably. And no one said “these are the ONLY people who know how to do this, TREAT THEM LIKE ROCKSTARS.” So weird.
“Highest profit numbers” yep, skeleton crew with below-market pay and no cross training because the whole training budget is blown up by onboarding
Bingo! That was another thing they promised me that I was starting to get peeved off about. They wanted me to crosstrain on the other machines in the shop, and those are skills I wanted to learn! But nope, I was too good at the one task I did that I got pigeonholed. Not great for improving my skills and marketability in said skills, but god damn it felt good to set off that nuke when I left that place.
> traditional Monday-Friday shift, 7am to 7pm It's so sad that something like this has been normalized internally. Don't call 12 hours x 5 days a *traditional* shift. It is 60hrs and *exploitative*. That is explicitly illegal in many jurisdictions outside the USA.
I'm no expert but it seems like it should be illegal to discriminate against someone's reasonable request to accommodate a medical need.
Yeah I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. If you have documentation of everything this seems like you could potentially have a case? Could ask on the lawyer subreddit
Yeah, I would think so, especially if OP had the initial agreement on paper. It would probably violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
And then the lawyers win. Seems illegal. Definitely all companies discriminate against people with disabilities.
This was very illegal. HR would have been doing the company a favor to find a spine at that point and tell the manager to back down. It probably would be with OPs time to cross post on r/legaladvice to see what they say.
I had thought about trying to fight it, but there was no point. I had already quit and was going through some heavy mental issues at the time(I had just suffered a bad breakup and my cat passing); I just wanted to wash my hands of them and be done with them. My state is horrible for worker's rights. There's no guarantee I would have been able to win or get anything done. Besides, whatever trouble I *might* have gotten them into pales in comparison to the damage my leaving did to them, and that thought makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
This should definitely be cross posted to r/maliciouscompliance Kudos to you OP.
I wasn't sure if I should post it here or post it there because it didn't feel like a malicious compliance situation, but looking back on it, you're right! He told me to make a decision, so I did!
Oh definitely both here and there. Glad you got a better job and kept with the medical program! No job on this planet is worth your health.
Tried crossposting and it got ~~locked~~ put invisible immediately with the little red traschan. Oh well!
Ope. Might try copying and pasting the post instead?
I looked at your post and it doesn't look locked...?
I also recommend r/nuclearrevenge due to the fallout
Ya know what's crazy those C suite types probably didn't even bat an eyelash. Just looted the remaining company coffers and are now fixing to bite into the next company to tank it. Total failure and they are probably all still rich as fuck.
Surprised manager even took off for his wedding. Why not have it in warehouses?? I mean you still gotta work, amiright? Dumb ass company. Good on you for staying with the program. I hope you are working in ‘you’ and making ‘you’ a better person. Health always comes first. Sorry. Doctors appointment. Hard to reschedule
I had to tell my new boss yesterday that my doctor called with a last minute opening for an appointment tomorrow for something I'd otherwise have to wait until mid-August on. She let me switch my day off, no problem. Feels good to be respected again.
Yeah, really. "Hun, it only takes five minutes to say 'I do'. I don't want to lose a lot of time at work, so let's do it on my lunch break. We'll have at least a whole 30 minutes so we can celebrate a bit too!!"
>He got married last year, and he took no time off for his wedding - he worked a full shift on Friday, got married Saturday, and was back at work on Sunday morning. This is absolutely how you end up with a wife who spends all your money and is banging other dudes. Everything has a price, and being constantly absent from your marriage, that's the price.
A friend of mine pulled together thousands of dollars to treat his parents to an anniversary trip overseas. He gets head-hunted after paying for the tickets and everything. Agrees to work provided the overseas trip is open--he doesn't even need vacation pay, he's okay with not getting paid for the weeks he'll be off "Sure! Sure! Sure! Sure! It's all good! Welcome aboard!" He starts work, the trip is 3 months away. Everything's fine. Until....."Oh, yes, I see you're down for vacation time in two weeks. Problem is, that's a problem. We can't spare you, there's too many people already off for those weeks." Friend stood up without a word and "Byeeee!!" Walked out, never to return.
It's definitely great to be able to say that.
A friend of mine (also in HVAC) had something similar happen. He -had- to go to physiotherapy regularly. His back gave out if he didn't. I spent a more than few nights socializing him while he laid on a table. Laying on a table was all he was capable of if he didn't get his physio. Eventually his work had some sort of issue with him. I don't know the story, but they *demanded* he come in (he did HVAC installs) and miss his physio. If he does, he's fine for a few days, then stuck on a table by the time the weekend hits for the entire weekend. He had me meet him and gave me his work phone etc to turn in on his behalf. Which I did. Me doing that probably only saved my buddy 5mins. But it saved dealing with whatever bullshit they were going to pull when he got there. Which was likely a waste-of-time shitcanning. I was very happy to quit a job for someone else.
The point of this story is that you never have to take crap you don't want from a job. You don't even have to deal with telling them you quit. Leave a letter like OP or have someone else interact on your behalf.
I've only read the TL:DR but this is the stuff I want to see. People quitting their jobs and fucking bosses over.
Unreal. Another case where good thing are murdered by bad management. I’m told this is largely why companies fail, and this one feels good and petty. F them. I wish we could all be there with popcorn when it finally got back to the pivotal ‘what made xxxx quit’ and HR clears their throat and retells the scene as the shrugging observer. 🍿
It doesn't amaze me how many multi-million dollar companies rely on maybe 1 or 2 underpaid workers to make the whole thing work.
>He got married last year, and he took no time off for his wedding - he worked a full shift on Friday, got married Saturday, and was back at work on Sunday morning. Anyone want to take bets on how long the ex-boss and his wife last for?
Divorce was Tuesday, but he couldn't attend
Might be a pretty nice set up for her. Guy is basically just an ATM that she might have to chat with once in a blue moon.
Good on you! I just got the call for a surgery this month and they tried fucking me around too. Canceled my holidays I had booked during next month (I'll be recuperating anyways) and booked the next couple weeks off instead to get everything sorted for surgery and relax. All because I asked to wfh for a week so I wouldn't get sick when people are hacking in the office. We are in a few really big projects that onoy I have the tech skills for in our team, so it'll be fun to see what they blow up while I'm gone
I hate that it's the company that seems like they're trying to bend over backwards for *you* when it's really the opposite. "Hey boss, I'm going to be recovering from surgery so I can't come into the office. Is it allright if I work from home that week?" "No. You need to be here." "Actually, I decided I'm taking the full time off needed to recover. See you back at the office whenever!" *shocked Pikachu face*
Exactly what happened. They can get fucked and I'll work on my tan while recouping haha enjoy the next 6 weeks of chaos fuckersssss
In a functioning society, the work makes sacrifices for the people. **That** is productivity. The inverse is slavery. Fuck them I’m happy for you bud.
This is, "I told you, I'm not working Friday. The only question is if you want me back next week."
Yea… i’ll be back on Monday you can let me know if I have a job then.
Contrast that with the large not-for-profit I work for. I get slammed with a stage 4 cancer diagnosis in February. Boss: your health is the most important thing. Anything we can do to support you, let us know. This is echoed by bosses 3 levels up. Coworkers say the same. Work is shuffled around. Some give to younger employees to give them opportunities for skill development and exposure. I’m out for 2 months for radiation- they check in on me all the time. I had no desire to leave before this. Sure as shit I’m going back when I’m able and making sure I support them like they’ve supported me.
This almost needs to be in r/prorevenge, it’s beautiful.
Either that or r/ohnoconsequences
Classic fuck around and find out, delighted you got a new job who respects you
This makes my dick hard. Props.
Lmfao
This was extremely satisfying to read, obviously not their abuse of you or your medical stuff, but I’m so happy they fucked around and found out. Best of luck to you!!
This made my week reading this
I would have told that HR person that either he fires that jackass of a manager that is mentally insane. Or the company loses one of its 3 laser operators. And since the company is way to blind to realize that the reason they can't keep employees is because of the lack of a work-life balance. They will not be able to find another laser operator for quite a while. So if HR was smart. They would have a talk with one of their higher-ups and fire that crazy manager.
It’s like the saying goes. People don’t leave bad jobs. They leave bad bosses
Honestly, I'm glad I got out, and for now I'm probably done with fabrication as a whole. My new job is doing maintenance and construction for an Escape Room/Ren Faire company moonlighting doing construction and propwork for a few local theatre groups. The hourly pay is greater but there's no overtime; I'll gladly take the hit to my income to work 4 days a week, have near total autonomy to fix issues and do design work, and have a boss that trusts me enough not to micromanage me.
That is great. I’m “retiring” from 30 years in the entertainment industry this year and looking forward to what comes next. Hopefully I can find something like you have
My daughter is starting a new job Monday. They gave her 3 days to train her replacement. When she left, the woman was crying because of the amount of information and how confused she was. My daughter did several things that no one else knew how to do. My husband says she needs to get them to hire her and a consultant
I love when jobs get notice but they wait to hire someone at the last minute to be trained and can't possibly get caught up in that limited time. Oh well, fuck 'em!
Holy shit this had me fuming. From the asshole workaholic bootlicker that values his work over his own MARRIGE, to the snarky slap on the back "Great! See you Friday." Dude deserves a punch to the jaw, that's all I'm saying.
I'm not a violent person, but I have rarely come closer to wanting to hit someone.
I'm absolutely amazed at how greedy these fuckers are. You have a great employee WILLING to work 12-14 hour days just to get a Friday off. How the fuck do you let that go? The fucking greed man. The god damn fucking greed. For the manager who worked right around his wedding, I'm sure his wife is going to loooooovvvveeeeee all that free time and I can't even imagine once kids come into the picture.
And I understand that the other employees would’ve preferred a Monday through Friday situation but if one of your key people can’t make Fridays then either you work around it or you don’t have them
Very satisfying. Well done
This is a great story, and well-told. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out.
> Around the middle of spring, they got backed up because one of the machines went down. I was asked if I could make an exception to my day off and come in on Friday, pretty pretty please. Me, being an idiot, I agreed to it and cancelled my appointment that week, thinking it would be a one-off because the machine was only down for a day. Shit legitimately happens. > Once I made an exception the first time, you can see where this is going. A few weeks later they asked me to do it again - not because the machine went down, but because they had just overextended themselves on a really expensive contract with a _very_ big company. I objected, stating my medical exemption, and they pulled someone else in to work the shift. This happened a few times, and I did end up rearranging a few appointments because, again, I was an idiot. I know it's phrasing, but, obviously, you're not an idiot. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Obviously, you were working for idiots. So the only thing "wrong" you did was not picking up on that sooner before being nice by doing them a favour. I hope you continue to be nice to people, your co-workers, and even your current employer. The life lesson I learned is never to do favours for fools, because fools just think that your charity is a weakness and their inadequacies is their cleverness.
You're right. I legitimately had no problem coming in the first time because it's a delicate machine and things just break from time to time. Everyone who's worked in a shop knows that circumstance. But yeah, my mistake was letting them do it in non-"emergency" situations.
These natural consequences are brutally satisfying.
I enjoyed this story very much. Congratulations on greener pastures.
I think that any potential manager should be required to read the posts on this subreddit. It’s really packed with lessons of what not to do.
"Good thing *I'm* not the type of manager to do that!" *proceeds to do something that would get thousands of upvotes on this very sub*
Honestly, you should turn around and sue them for ada violations. Fuck them over even harder.
Made my day to read your story. Had to be satisfying as fuck for you. Well done!
I'm glad all things worked out for you OP. Been in a similar situation myself and also approaching 40. Feels a bit bad leaving, but once you've done it and settled into a better position, the grass truly is greener on the side.
I fucking love this. They couldn’t respect your needs and you fucked them. Its beautiful.
Hade a job at a casino where they promised me a week end off for my buddy's wedding who was a slot teck lead there when i was hired, fast forward to the week of the wedding and they said they didn't know if they could give me the days so I said I'm not missing the wedding basically I'm not coming in and they then proceeded to try to tell my buddy that they couldn't give him the time for his honeymoon that he had put in for and had approved a year ago. Neither me or my friend work there anymore luckily
FAFO indeed!
Someone really ought to eMail a link to this page to all of the C-Suite in that company. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during the next meeting…
fuck 'em
This is the essential problem with companies that run with a C suite… no one on that level (with very few exceptions) is ever aware of how the company actually generates revenue on a nitty gritty level. Smaller companies, less than like a billion in revenue, probably shouldn’t have a c-suite at all. Employee managed businesses usually come out ahead in the small to mid tier revenue brackets. The “rainforest company” has to have an executive level because of its size, but the company contracting the HVAC system for a single distribution center should have had a more direct line between OP and the owner.
Great, see you Friday.
I had a job with a company that made a unique piece of durable medical equipment. When I started, they were small but growing, and doing well. The owner got greedy, and hired a director of sales to push the product to more markets, and do so by having giant expensive displays at medical equipment fairs. I was one of two RNs who gave in services to case managers at health insurance companies, demonstrating the uses for the device and justifying the cost in savings over time. There were three problems. First of all, the company had never bothered to sponsor clear studies of the device VS other methods for the uses it had. Second, health insurance companies don’t care about costs down the road. They care about NOW. And third, of course, the cost of increasing the sales budget by about 500%, between the showy nonsense and additional sales people meant that profits dropped. My title changed four times in two years, although my duties never did. There was never, in all the time that I was there, or my predecessors, an attempt to or expectation of quantification of the effects of our work with case managers, so after the fourth title change, my position was eliminated,,and I was offered a desk job at equal pay, but it would never have an increase, as it was the top of the scale for the job I was offered. I said thanks but no thanks. Worked two more weeks, too my severance and left. Along with an unused airline ticket that had to belong to me, because of laws about the named passenger. Within three months I was working at a medical software company, training RNs on the software for a 15% increase in pay.
I really enjoyed reading your story . Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences . YOU have value and I’m glad you recognized it and you were actually really good with boundaries , I applaud that . You were so generous even allowing ONE Friday of your time and shifting around your medical appointment. Hearing the company getting fucked and the little guy winning warms my heart ❤️ These feel good stories is why I come back to this sub . I see courage in employees in their interactions with their managers . It’s not easy to say no , or to walk away yet you did both gracefully .
Not sure if anyone mentioned this and also I’m not a lawyer but have had personal experience in this. After a year of employment you would have been eligible for FMLA. Assuming the info you gave the company about your health hit the right notes, HR should have provided you with documents to take FMLA and be protected from Friday work as it’s a reasonable accommodation. The way this operates is that the company is liable the moment you raise a need for FMLA leave (in this case, intermittent) and has to send you the paperwork to fill out. From that point on it’s on you to fill it out. There’s an asklawyers subreddit you could post to that could probably give more information if you are interested in exploring that. But more importantly, reading this story that HR rep dropped the ball so hard that the company is a time bomb for a lawsuit from someone in the future.
I wasn't there long enough to qualify for FMLA. Total time of employment was ~9 months. I'm very happy at my new job, and now that it's been a few months after this happened, it seems pretty pointless to try and go after them legally. Plus, I don't really have the motivation or want to do it, given how things ended up. I know I fucked them over royally by leaving and to me that feels better/is worth more than anything I could have gotten from a potential suit. I might have won a little bit of money from it if it went my way, but the company wouldn't have lost the contract which was worth *far* more than I ever would have won from them.
This was so satisfying to read. But I wish they just treated you right in the first place.
Yep. There is zero loyalty or respect for hard workers. I put in a two weeks after being denied 3 promotions. Before I quit i realized i was doing my managers job and i reported all her duties back to her. She lost her job after she tried to bad mouth me saying i caused issues (i am a long standing former employees kid so her word was pretty useless) and since i left 3 peoole followed snd anyone new quits after a month. Its sad they they denied me the opportunity to be able to be able to afford my bills and now they can't keep anyone bc theres no training or supportive management.
I hate you went through so much, OP. But I'm really glad you stuck up for yourself, stayed in the treatment program you fought for, and cost that shitty employer so much money with Rainforest Company. I've never been more proud of a stranger ❤️
That’s awesome!
They fucked around and found out.
>At the six month mark of my tenure there, I was the most senior employee on my shift except the supervisor. That tells me everything I need to know. >HVAC ducting with an insanely quick turnaround time are you sure that quick turnaround time isn't the way they treat their employees? >four missed calls from my company aint your company no mo fam, twaint never your company
>I can't even *imagine* the shit that the C-suite execs threw at my old boss and HR supervisor over that happening. Honest question... Do you think your story made the way all up there? Even if you wrote it in your resignation letter, do you think any person in suit bothered to look that deep into this? I mean in the end fuck your old boss and HR and fuck the company, but I would think everyone was in a position to cover their asses here
I doubt it did beyond them saying something like "Yeah, one of our guys quit without notice like a fucking unprofessional asshole," with no further followup or questioning on it. It's the easiest way to go about it - blame the employee that's gone, keep your head in the sand, and keep going about your business where you'll eventually get fucked over again because no changes will be investigated or made.
If it was a one time thing that you wanted off for I would say just to tell them I won’t be here and I’ll see you on Monday and you can tell me if I have a job or not but when it’s every Friday and they didn’t adhere to their promise then you did what you had to do
It sounds like your boss is just power tripping..
Yep. Just because someone is in upper management doesn’t mean they’re smart.
F*** Around: 10 Find Out: "This used to be the town of Alexandria." *sips tea*
And this is why I'll never give a corporation 100% EVER
Man, I love these kinds of stories
The thing that I love you for the most is putting the TL;DR at the beginning.
I guarantee you the boss/supervisor was still there after the mess he created. Companies are rather stupid. Production and profits is all they see
This is by far the best and most effective way for an employee to have the upper hand over any company. Be valuable. Know your value. Use that value as leverage. If they don’t compromise, go elsewhere and leave them high and dry.
This was a textbook example of a Beer Truck Operation as illustrated by "If John Q Worker gets hit by a beer truck, we're going to be screwed." I've been that key guy several times in my career and I hate when it happens every time. My response to it is entirely based on how my employer treats me. If they do right by me, I do right by them and make sure my 'indispensable' knowledge and/or talent gets spread around to others. That way if, for whatever reason, I'm no longer around, they'll be okay. If they're schmucks, I quit and let them deal with the fallout of being schmucks.
Advice for the future. Ask for a reasonable accommodation for fridays off. They have to prove that you working 14 hrs shift doesn’t work for them and they are under no obligation unless you are in california to pay you OT unless you work over 40 hrs a week. Once you are in a place a year (assuming your employer is large enough) file for FMLA if you are in the USA.
Reposted?
Man, the best thing you can do is leave an indeed review telling people you got a 4 day work week for X$ a year, and encouraging other people to negotiate for it. I wouldn't even be untruthful!
Telling the CEO you were the on who caused this in post would be the icing on the cake, "you see what happened to your company? That's what happens when one manager doesn't value a person like me, fix your shit!" As well, your involvement with the company cost them X amount of dollars, doesn't that mean my work is worth at least X% of that plus the continued partnership? Who's position is more vital, yours or the CEO at that point? Who really made that deal possible, you or them?
Oh man this is wild! This sounds like some of BS that happened at my old job. (I worked for a HVAC wholesaler but I worked in the IT dept.) The Fabricators and Welders were always getting the shit end of the stick, our warehouse guys too. The company I worked for only ever had 3 people trained to work the laser cutter too 😅 eerily similar stories lol. I'm glad you got yourself out of there, your health is 10x more important than some job that won't respect your boundaries.
I hope OP sends the former supervisor the. Most scathing, smarky email ever.
If this was in the US, or other similar country, what you did was request a reasonable accommodation due to a disabily. So your employer taking it away without offering an effective alternative would break a law (at least in the US). This then led you to quit because you could not continue to work without it. So that could have been a pretty little federal lawsuit.
Lol, do you work under Helios? That place was a shit show when I worked there and does HVAC work for Amazon as well. Management was a joke inside the office.
This makes me so happy. Good for you & fuck that boss
Such a great feeling leaving a job that takes advantage of you