> I think that is that is the most sort of stunning open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition where they have a stronghold already.
How can Apple "disable" competition if they're explicitly choosing not to even participate in that market (in Europe)?
While I think the EU's comments here is pretty silly, the comments here seem to misinterpret the statement they're making.
1. Apple is deciding not to roll out their AI features in the EU because they do not believe it can comply with the EU's DMA
2. Because Apple is not rolling out their AI features in the EU because of DMA, the view of the EU is that Apple is admitting they know their AI feature will be anti-competitive if it cannot comply with DMA.
Many comments here are misinterpreting the EU's commentary as saying that withholding the feature is itself the anti-competitive behavior. What the EU appears to be saying is that they believe Apple deciding not to operate in the market is a tacit admission that they already know the EU will declare their feature uncompetitive. The EU believes that if Apple is only operating in markets where the DMA does not apply, Apple is choosing to operate only in markets that they don't have to enable competition.
Put another way, this is like saying if you plead the 5th and choose not to self-incriminate, you're guilty. Which is silly, but here we are.
It would likely be insanely difficult, if not impossible, to open up their AI intigrations to competition. It is not like a single program running, it is many small highly specific models deeply integrated into the OS. The only way to really open that up is to just throw open the gates and allow anything to run. They could, but the system would essentially have no security at that point. Bad actors would run rampent.
So what the EU is saying is that they would have deemed it anti-competitive and Apple was right to stop those features in the EU.
These arguments are circular and contradictory. Apple should have the right to avoid the market if they want.
> What the EU appears to be saying is that they believe Apple deciding not to operate in the market is a tacit admission that they already know the EU will declare their feature uncompetitive.
If that is in fact their thought process, I definitely don't blame Apple for refusing certain products and services in the EU.
If you read beyond the headline and go into the article, they're pretty explicit that this is their thought process.
"I \[EU\] find that very interesting that they \[Apple\] say we will now deploy AI where we’re not obliged to enable competition. I think that is that is the most sort of stunning open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition where they have a stronghold already."
Disabling competition isn't the same as choosing not to facilitate it, insecurely, on their own platform, as a matter of law.
Apple is demonstrating that it simply won't enter a market if the regulators there are this fucking stupid.
EU regulators know they've managed to shit all over the bed. Their only option is to desperately grasp at excuses and accusations, to try to save face.
Question is how many years do they need to revert on stupid decisions that wont be a benefit to the user, but making us less competitive. Malware and scaminfested operating systems are fine, who open up everything because they simply dont care. 🤦🏼♂️
Also im pretty sure its the big tech lobby in the background wanting to position itself and their worse offerings in a better light in europe.
> misinterpreting the EU's commentary
The problem really falls with the EU here with Margrethe Vestager being intentionally disingenuous. She's spun Apple's statement and attributed meaning that doesn't exist within it. Apple isn't releasing the features in the EU until they have that clarity - moreover they're not releasing them anywhere except in the USA at this stage with even the UK (though not fully stated) not expected till 2025.
If the EU believes feature release is critical to its success it ought to pivot from hostility to working with companies that operate in spheres it has not developed its own competition for. Vestager is a problem looking for a higher rank within the EU, she's not a solution.
Not everything Apple drops ends up sticking or becoming the dominant “one” in the segment. At this point they just have a bone to pick and it looks immature and petulant
The EU is threatening to fine Apple more than they make in the EU. Apple isn’t being “stubborn”, they are being prudent. Why in the world would you risk $50B in fines to ship an incremental feature that people have gotten by without for 15 years?
The EU desperately needs some kind of pre-clearance process so companies can get assurance it’s OK to ship a new feature before doing so. Otherwise nobody is going to play Calvinball with this much money at stake.
Yeah that’s where I’m at. EU isn’t going after Windows market share or Spotify’s market share and making them open up to Linux or Tidal (whatever). It’s only Apple.
I don’t see it as stubborn. Given the climate, it makes sense. The EU have been apprised of all of Apple’s business moves for years, they HAVE to be for Apple to operate in the region. This is a situation where Apple had been approved to do business as defined in the region and now are told that the way they’re doing business is illegal. I’m sure if they were aware of a size clause, they would have restricted their growth in the region.
And this isn’t even an old thing. According to the regulation, the iPad is nowhere even close to being a gatekeeper. So it’s not affected by DMA one would think? No, the regulators have deemed it a gatekeeper in a statement where they essentially state “No, it’s not a gatekeeper, but, I mean, it IS now.” Given this, any new feature that ANY company brings forward has the potential to be okayed initially then marked illegal. Best for companies to get some clarity around how they’re going to operate a feature, NOT just for a few months, but for years to come.
Say what anyone wants to say about China, if they make a rule, the way to adhere to the rule is clear cut. The big difference, China is totally fine cutting out companies in order to get them to comply.
Apple is trying to defend the experience that customers literally paid them money for to create. The EU is trying to fine Apple any way they can so they can get $80 billion from them.
The “petulant complaining” is not even remotely the same and you know that. Dont act dense.
The fact that the GPDR website violates the GPDR tells you how convoluted EU regulations are. It's no surprise that Apple doesn't want to do anything unless it's absolutely sure. The EU is desperately trying to spin this.
I'm not a big fan of large corpos, but the positioning here Is pretty odd from the EU to say the least. Why is a company obligated to release certain features in your market if you have actively passed laws that make it harder for them to release products in your market?
That's like inviting a director to make a movie in Rome or something and then being like "but you can't film any of the historical sights". Just like - why even go then?
The cynic in me looks at where that money goes when they levy these fines against companies.. and yep it funds the EU.
It rubs me the wrong way when a governmental body or department directly benefits from going after companies. It provides motivation that can stray from its actual purpose.
Not to mention the personal gain potential for the person(s) that lead and organize these actions. I imagine the people responsible for the fines get all types of upward mobility in their career.
The EU's unhinged. They continually sue and fine a company fueled by an extremely strange mindset, under the guise of "consumer protection" then act surprised when said company starts limiting product and services for that region.
You're going to have a problem, when an organization is monetarily motivated and benefactors when going after companies.
Seriously. This is the opposite of anticompetitive behavior. This is choosing not to compete with their new product in a market that’s too risky (due to over-regulation) for them to release it in. The EU should expect this to start happening a LOT if they’re going to continue to threaten fines that are bigger than their market’s entire value to the at-risk companies.
The counter-point:
Microsoft bundled Teams with Office. EU ruled against them for abusing their market position by bundling Teams. Microsoft then released a version of office without Teams, and EU said the damage was already done, and Microsoft had abused their market position to push people to use Teams.
And yet here is Apple saying: “we’ll wait until we get confirmation that this is allowed” and EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence.
Also now that Microsoft pulled Teams from Office they’re selling Office without Teams for $5 less. The EU is now saying $5 is not enough. Slack Enterprise cost $20 a month. They’re making the argument that people wouldn’t buy Slack if Teams is only $5 more.
Why does Slack get to dictate the price of Office? This shit is bonkers.
Why does ***the EU*** get to dictate the price, for that matter?
Doesn’t matter that Slack has a massive feature payload and probably should cost more.
We have G Suite and Google chat is bundled with it… but we banned it company wide. Good software wins out
It's seemingly just a widely different mindset than we have here in America.
The Government dictating a price for consumer goods and services seems insane. Especially with the fact they have sole discretion on when and where and to whom they apply these regulations and fines too.
Bureaucracy run amok.
The EU is insane if they think its reasonable to force a company to release a product in their region that they offer elsewhere.
14 Billion dollars of revenue Apple makes from the EU seems like it might be worth sacrificing considering they are facing 30 billion dollars in fines for the DMA stuff.
> EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence
The most insane take ever by the EU. Anti-competitive behavior implicitly requires that an action HELPS the company performing said action. How in the hell can you spin WITHHOLDING a feature helps a company's position in the marketplace? This is clearly EU spinning the fact that they are now seeing the consequences of their overreaching regulation.
Exactly. I think John Gruber summarized it well: [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/06/27/ec-microsoft-teams](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/06/27/ec-microsoft-teams)
> EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence
The EU Parliament & Commission are acting like petulant children here, and I think it would be wise for them to quit acting like they are the sole global regulatory body before other countries (such as the USA) start to treat European companies in a similar fashion.
While some of it may be over-regulation, I think it’s more that the EU refuses to be clear about what the regulation IS. They appear to change what it means whenever what they’ve passed doesn’t seem to do what they want it to do. They say the iPad is a gatekeeper and Apple’s expected to treat the iPad as a gatekeeper when there’s nothing in the regulation that defines WHY the iPad is a gatekeeper.
EU should already be used to having to wait longer for announced products and services, if they ever get them at all, as companies come into compliance with regulations.
Thats actually exactly what it means. If Apple isn't bringing the feature then they don't need to open it up to the devs since they aren't controlling a market. For example newer iPhones have thread radios in them, as long as Apple doesn't use that for any homekit stuff they wouldn't need to make the API for the hardware available for others to use the hardware either. The same thing applies to AI and the access their new features enable. If Apple doesn't enable the screen mirroring to a mac feature then they don't need to provide an API for devs to do the same. If they don't enable the Apple Intelligence features to read and understand everything thats happening on the device then they don't need to make an API for others to use to do the same
The thing is it’s not lol. They built an AI and it layers under a third party which they have openly said they are trying to add options to if they agree to security terms. If that’s anti competitive then what is every other voice system?
That’s a misunderstanding. Apple Intelligence has nothing to do with ChatGPT/OpenAI. Apple Intelligence is Apple’s own models run on device, or on Apple’s own hardware in the cloud (“Private Cloud Compute”), combined with what they call a Semantic Index, which is personal information about you and your contacts, gathered on your device. They only use ChatGPT for what they call “world knowledge”, and it is disabled by default.
I’m aware. I don’t think it should even be a discussion what models are running on hardware. It’s such an absurd safety risk that if we are actually talking about that, we might as well talk about the os installed to the phone being anticompetitive and opening that up. It’s a worthwhile discussion about what third parties Apple uses off device. It should be a non starter on device at that level.
It feels like that top comment didn’t fully read the article. The full quote makes it clear that they’re making the accusation Apple is engaging in anti competitive behavior outside the EU in the other markets without the same regulations as the EU
Ive no love of Apple(arrived here via main page) but Vestager has shown herself to be embarrassingly stupid on multiple occasions in her dogmatic pursuit of the company.
The idea is that strong competitors in markets drive the market forward. Obviously apple is a behemoth and if they are not in the market then Europe will grow further uncompetitive. This isn’t a lie. The real problem though is that Europeans regulate so much that even apples army of lawyers can’t comb through every regulation efficiently enough for apple to avoid fines.
If they don’t chill or simplify regulations more companies from America AND Asia will withhold certain features tbh.
> How can Apple "disable" competition if they're explicitly choosing not to even participate in that market (in Europe)?
You won't be able to run ChatGPT or any other AI with the same level of integration on the iPhone that Apple Intelligence would.
If the iPhone had Apple Intelligence in Europe, they would likely be required to give the same or similar type of access to the competition in the EU. Because otherwise it would be anti competitive if Apple Intelligence can use stuff that other AI can't.
By not having Apple Intelligence, they can't be forced to provide access to other AIs.
Thus, disabling competition by simply not participating unless they can be anticompetitive.
We can argue about whether what the EU wants makes sense or not, if it's truly uncompetitive or not, etc, etc, but it's absolutely sensible to say that Apple removing a feature so that they aren't forced to open up stuff is disabling competition.
I think it’s totally reasonable to have your own system on device and allow people to use others third party but never allow them system level access. Which is what would be required. I’m not sure I really follow the logic that iOS needs to allow software to replace part of it. Not just apps, this is system level. At that point they might as well say the phones can’t be restricted to one OS and just open this thing up completely
this is why those regulations don't make any sense and they're definitely not good for consumers. those people who make them up, they don't understand the technologies they're dealing with.
Unlocking the bootloader is exactly what the DMA should have been and it should have stopped there.
You own the hardware, you can install anything you want on it. You do not own iOS, you cannot mandate that they implement arbitrary featuresets into their software.
This is the most sensible take. Anything else results in either unlimited corporate power, or ignorant bureaucrats arguing whether Apple should be forced to allow alternate file systems. (As an example)
> At that point they might as well say the phones can’t be restricted to one OS and just open this thing up completely
I mean, they're not exactly **not** saying this.. yet.
I think Apple would just rather compete on a platform level. They have zero interest in Siri or their AI being able to be called from an Android device. And they have zero interest in letting someone else have access to all your private info so they can give you a voice assistant feature on your iOS device.
You’re right, they’re stopping the competition, but just by not playing at all. There’s nothing to compete with. If another platform opens up the voice assistant to let you slide another in then that’s cool. But the EU isn’t really looking at voice assistants in general. Heck there’s no guarantee they’d even be concerned over this new AI stuff. That’s part of the issue. Apple won’t be able to get an answer on if the feature in its current form is fine for the EU or if someone’s gonna come after them for it.
They’re just going to wait it out. Wait for whats-her-name to be ejected and see if the next lot is a bit more friendly and amenable to sitting down for discussion. And if they are; we’ll probably see the feature planned in at that juncture.
Apple already came out and said the reason why they do not provide these open APIs is because it poses security/privacy concerns.
And the example you brought up is a very good one. Apple's deal with OpenAI does not allow the company to identify users and use any data for training. This is a huge win for privacy. This is only possible because of exclusive deals. If Apple makes an open API for the World Knowledge feature, no chat-bot company would be willing to sign such a deal. They would just build the feature and use the data as they see fit. So there is a clear trade-off between having a closed API (which restricts open access but it is not necessarily anti-competitive) and privacy.
Both are core values of the EU. Which one is more important? I do not have the anwser. The only thing that I know is that EU regulators cannot spew agressive words like this when they clearly have no idea what these features are nor their impact on different aspects (not just the DMA) of EU legislation.
Except apple has a very valid reason to be weary about releasing this product to the EU. As was just seen with the microsoft ai issues, people don’t want their data being transmitted off device, and are very concerned about how their data is used to run an AI feature. So being forced to open this so that other AIs can also be used would also risk creating substantial privacy concerns.
Also, my personal opinion is that since Apple isn’t charging for Apple AI, there shouldn’t be any sort of anti competitive argument to be made. They are releasing a feature on their platform. Especially when you compare it to something like Microsoft and what they’re doing with copilot on windows.
This is what happens when you let some non-STEM history/PolSci major bureaucrats lead you. All they have ever known is make demands and complain when they aren't met.
Apple: Here is a cool new feature
EU: Your new feature has a .00001% chance of leaking private information of the residents of Seydisfjordur, Iceland. $1B FINE!
Apple: We released a patch that locks down our new feature and protects the people of Seydisfjordur.
EU: Your closed garden doesnt allow full interoperability with all third party apps known and not yet developed. ANTICOMPETITIVE! $10B fine.
Apple: We have opened up access to third party apps to use our new feature.
EU: This third party app that has been downloaded 4 times in 6 years just exposed all the personal data of the people of Seydisfjordur. WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT Seydisfjordur??? $100B fine!
Apple: This is to hard, we are out.
EU: Apple hates competition! $200B FINE!!!
I’m pretty sure that’s the crux of the EUs fight against Apple. They want a back door entrance to the walled garden and apple’s ecosystem doesn’t make that easily possible
They didn't even say they're not going to bring it to the EU. They just said they need more time to make sure that any EU-specific changes they need to make don't compromise their security & privacy.
Any regulation requires time & money on the regulated company to comply. This is exactly what Apple & other DMA gatekeepers *should* be doing. Is it also a slightly raised middle-finger to the EU? maybe.
It’s going to be hilarious when the EU is stuck with Siri because they want to choke every company on a leash. They will eventually face corporate pushback and be left out on many major technologies going ahead.
I like the EU in many respects, but I think Verstager is the wrong person for the job.
Her focus is on economic benefits for EU citizens, but all her measures have zero actual real word benefits. She also disregards privacy and security, while it should be a top priority.
EU should focus on making EU businesses more competitive. Not try to artifically make the playground more in favor off EU companies. Where are the big EU tech companies? Why are the highly educated IT people moving to the states?
It is so easy to make rules to forbid and force. Come up with shit that helps build and create.
She’s also said that she will know she’s successful if, in the end, Apple’s making lower profits in the region. As a result, there’s no negotiation as there’s no chance for a middle ground.
From a CNBC interview when asked if they’d go as far as breakup Apple (which is hilarious that she thinks the region has that much power)
**VESTAGER:** *Well, it remains to be seen. But if you have to carry a second app store,* ***that will make a dent in your own app store.*** *If you cannot promote your own services, but need to give room for competitors, rightfully, legitimately so,* ***of course that will potentially, sort of, take away some of your own profits.***
So, the regulations were about, in the end, putting a dent in their profits. And, it’s such a child-like, naïve view. And, that naivety is all throughout their vaguely written regulation. “If we say this they’re forced to do…” no, there are other regulations that allow precisely what Apple has offered as solutions. When anyone says “they follow the letter, but not the spirit”, what they’re saying is that “Apple won’t financially be too much worse off as a result!” because THAT was the spirit of the regulation.
That’s why the regulation is so poorly written, because they were attempting to hide that THAT was the spirit of the legislation. f they had been clearer, the folks required to sign off on it wouldn’t have. Going back to the iPad thing, it’s not a gatekeeper. They wrote the legislation like it wasn’t a gatekeeper. However, that meant Apple’s profits with the iPad wouldn’t be impacted. So, AFTER the fact and with nothing in the DMA calling the iPad a gatekeeper, it’s a gatekeeper now. Simply because there was no way of codifying the iPad as a gatekeeper such that it wouldn’t set off the alarm bells of some of the folks that had to sign off on this. *“A gatekeeper can expect that any other products a gatekeeper makes will be defined as a gatekeeper even if the gatekeeper’s other product isn’t a gatekeeper as defined by our definition of gatekeeper.”* Is likely how they wanted it to read. :)
The process has been set with the fine being stated, now there will be 5-10 years where those following behind V\*ger will look closely at what they’ve done and companies will challenge how the regulations were brought about. My thinking is that if they were working with these companies instead of against them, they’d have a regulatory environment that would be in place indefinitely. As it is, the slipshod regulations they have are going to be impacted because whoever is after her won’t want to put their name on something so poorly built.
that's why any posts regarding EU from last month and also for next month should be automatically deleted.
because of elections, those comments made by current EU people are irrelevant, as most of them will be out of office/ will switch to different positions
This is why US antitrust regulation typically considers harms done to consumers. Being a monopoly is fine -- *abusing* your monopoly to make things worse for consumers in the market is the thing that's illegal.
It makes me wonder what the EU thinks of Nvda. Other companies will provide competition down the road but currently they are taking advantage of charging large corporations whatever they want even if those corporations say now we have it; how will it ever be turned into profitable investment.
To be fair, she’s not saying that Apple withholding these features in the EU is anti-competitive in itself, she’s saying that by doing so, Apple is admiting that these features are inherently anti-competitive and that’s why they’re withholding them.
She’s wrong, obviously, but that’s what she’s saying.
Yeah, god fucking forbid Apple doesn’t want their Private Cloud Compute Platform opened up to Facebook for them to fuck over and abuse user data. The absolute horror!
Apple is providing competition to the rest of the market if the EU lets it. unfortunately in the EU’s eyes anything other than everything functioning the exact same like android is not competition to them.
Apple provides a benefit and a billion customers agree. Let Apple be Apple, and let not a politician change them for the sake of an extra dollar
It’s not even Android, but some idiots oversimplified explanation of what a tech illiterate person thinks Android is. Google also got fined.
Because honestly, Android without Google services is kinda shit.
I didn't see anything in /u/jejsjhabdjf's comment that looks like he thinks corporations *should* be able to abuse their power. Sounds like you're commenting out of bad faith. The notion that disagreeing or disliking the EU means you're automatically pro-corporate abuse, and there's zero possible alternatives, is nonsense.
Corporations do abuse their power to the detriment of consumers, Apple does it too.
But in this case, Apple's vertical integration is to the benefit of consumers (privacy, security, performance) and detriment of other corporations. These EU regulations seem divorced from what the average iPhone user actually cares about or wants, because these regulations are ultimately not intended for their benefit. The actual average ~~person~~ iPhone user just wants their ~~device~~ iPhone to work well and be secure and reliable without hassle. Much of these regulations are intended for the benefit of other corporations (such as Spotify, a European company).
Too bad it won't work. EU is way behind in most tech and fining US companies won't fix that. So they will keep finding new ways to fine US companies to feel better about it.
Europe tried this ”tech” thing.
All of the companies here burned to the ground because all their products were total anti-user dogshit, and the business practices were equally shit. SAP is the only company left, and their products are utterly shit too.
And now EU thinks they can get a resurgence in European tech by shitting on everything worth using.
It really highlights the duality of the EU.
The EU is like that friend that wants to be included in everything, but complains when people don’t want to do what they want to do. When they stop getting invited, they complain about being left out.
It’s overly simplistic, but the EU should have anticipated this outcome and the negative impact it would have on their market after repeatedly dunking on Apple.
This is the EU slapping around a very big American company for 1) not bending their knee, and 2) because it’s the only way they can exert any real political economic pressure over the US. Ie, they’re throwing a tantrum.
I think the world is getting sick & tired of the EU's bullshit.
The EU can have their malware Alt Store, while most of the world gets Apple Intelligence.
Bunch of brats.
**Edit**: Euros are downvoting me lol
It’s basically tax revenue, without the word “tax”.
It’s like when your State & Local government wants to raise tax revenue without raising taxes, they start issuing a lot of tickets. That ticket money becomes a regular revenue source.
Have my upvote.
I feel like Apple should respond to every EU remark thrown its way with, “Where are your tech companies?”
The EU clearly does not care not foster innovation, but cripples it. Otherwise… that continent that has some of the highest standards of living and some of the best universities in the world would have had some success building a European Facebook, Reddit, Google, Twitter or Apple — but no, they’ll just fine US tech and vote in far-right parties only to beg the US for help when they find themselves in another World War.
The only major tech company they have is Spotify ….and even they chose to list on a US stock exchange …not a European stock exchange lol
Any other European tech company is either out of business or too small to be relevant.
Or, Or, and I am just saying…
Apple is getting hammered by the EU and in response is moving far more carefully with new features there.
As much as I think the EU is doing good things, there is absolutely a layer of protectionism involved here. How about putting the screws to Spotify for some of their own shady practices?
>Apple is getting hammered by the EU and in response is moving far more carefully with new features there.
Exactly. Apple is delaying the feature to make sure it fully complies with EU laws, but now the EU is mad at that too.
I think apple believes their fans will get upset with EU when they start missing out on features but are still paying full price. The people will turn on the EU and apple will win.
Apple will claim their hands are tied by the EU and there is nothing they can do
This statement from the vice president of the regulatory body responsible for the DMA is a perfect example of how badly the EU misunderstands the world we live in today and the technology that we consume.
The DMA is designed to punish companies that capitalise on their innovations by forcing them to allow every competitor a chance of using it irrespective of their intentions.
So when Apple preemptively hold back features that they know they can’t make compliant with the law, suddenly they’re being anti-competitive?
A large part of it is how we treat the tech industry. In any other industry you would be laughed out of the room. if you tried to do half the stuff governmens do to the tech industry.
What they're making are excuses, for completely fucking this one up.
Apple is just never going to compromise users' privacy and security because some masturbatory group of EU bureaucrats are trying to make their bones on something they don't even understand.
Everyone is closeting their own markets. China has always done it, EU does it through bureaucracy, US enacts trade barriers and cites “national security” (Chinese EVs, TikTok, Huawei and now even floating idea to do it with DJI). In the end it’s all the same under different disguises.
Yep, makes it clear that someone is lobbying these EU autocrats into attacking Apple on everything they do. Even in this case stuff they don’t do.
While the same EU is turning a blind eye to companies that actually and regularly invade and threat user privacy and consumption and engage in excessive monopolistic behaviour such as Microsoft, Google, Samsung and Sony.
THANK YOU. Why the fuck isn’t the EU doing anything about Google’s ACTUAL monopoly of the entire internet across web browsers, search engines, ads, videos, smartphone OS, etc? And turning a blind eye as well as others pointed out here too, to big mergers like Microsoft’s constant purchases of large gaming studios, and Google’s purchases of startups that they always kill off stifling competition. What about Facebook’s monopoly of social media and chatting across Facebook, instagram, WhatsApp, etc. and abusing privacy and their monopoly to serve their ad platform. ENOUGH OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT ALREADY.
Funny thing is EU actively tries to increase Google's monopoly on the internet. WebKit(Safari) is the last stronghold when it comes to browser engines. However due to the new EU regulations other browsers could use Blink(Chrome) on iOS.
WebKit is a """stronghold""" purely because of Apple's anti-competitive policies and they intentionally keep it being shit to push iOS users away from web browsers back to the App Store. You can shit on Google for their browser monopoly and abusive attitude towards the internet all you want, but Apple is in no way "the good guy" in that arena. They're both fucking their users in their own little special ways and the fact that they coincidentally happen to look like opposite strategies at a very superficial level changes nothing about how similar their interests are.
Apple protecting the data, privacy and security of its OS and AI by not allowing all third parties access if core system security APIs or access to private user data, is anti-competitive in the EU's eyes.
There you go. The EU is not doing this charade for the people. It never was about the people, the vast majority of iPhone users do not want 3rd party app stores and data being silo'd in a dozen marketplaces and EULAs.
The EU is doing this to benefit the predatory corporations who want access to iPhone user data.
Everyone should be glad Apple is fighting the EU. The biggest loser in this will be the EU, which will provide lesser security and privacy for its population and will further sink into tech irrelevancy as its economy continues to stagnate.
Ironically all from the the same instituition that has greenlit every anti-competitive merger known to man. The US has blocked and killed more mergers in 2 years than the EU has in 20 years.
[Agreed, let’s not forget they wanted to scan even encrypted messages](https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/19/24181214/eu-chat-control-law-propose-scanning-encrypted-messages-csam)
So I have to ask… there’s no way the majority of EU citizens want this, right?
So who/why the fuck is electing the various relevant politicians/parties…? Like? I get there’s only so much you can do, but even in the US people sometimes successfully protest and or vote out shitty politicians. I mean there too but like…
I guess we did elect trump but he also got kicked out the next immediate chance, which is kinda my point. [Enough] People wanted him, then didn’t, so he’s out. Is the whole “I don’t lock my door because I have nothing to hide” mentality really so pervasive?
Yeah I don’t want the police or government recording all the porn I watch. I don’t care how innocuous that is, that’s fucking weird and rife for abuse. (Replace porn with anything you don’t want people to see lol)
For one, most people don’t know what encryption means. Most of my friends think Chat Control (the law that would make scanning messages legal) will only affect people who use the dark web. The argument “well, I don’t have anything to hide” is also very common.
For two, political parties blatantly lie about their position on the issue. In my country (Sweden), the Greens and the Left Party campaigned heavily on Chat Control being a threat to democracy and a human rights violation, and they both won a bunch of voters on this (including me). Yet, barely a week after the election, they allowed a resolution to support Chat Control to pass, later claiming they “forgot to oppose it”.
The vast majority of people here says "Well I'm not a terrorist/murderer/criminal so I guess they can scan my messages, I don't caree." Unfortunately.
>I guess we did elect trump but he also got kicked out the next immediate chance, which is kinda my point. \[Enough\] People wanted him, then didn’t, so he’s out
Now if only it was that easy with your supreme court. Trump has done lasting damage, whether we admit it or not. At the very least to the US international relations and the global perception of the US.
>So who/why the fuck is electing the various relevant politicians/parties…? Like? I get there’s only so much you can do, but even in the US people sometimes successfully protest and or vote out shitty politicians. I mean there too but like…
The way the European Parliament works is a joke. It has a massive democratic deficit that the eu can't fix without treaty change.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_legitimacy_of_the_European_Union#:~:text='Democratic%20deficit'%2C%20in%20relation,accountability%20of%20European%20Union%20institutions.
Basically it's stuck not being a state but also not truly being an international thing. It's a weird middle ground.
They talk about “choice” - but what about my choice? I want Apple to make platform decisions for me. That’s why I chose them over the alternatives. What’s so illegal about me wanting a closed system and voting with my wallet?
THANK YOU, I’ve been trying to fucking say this so many times. It’s MY choice to let a company make certain decisions for me. If I didn’t want that, I’d buy from a different companies that gives me more control. Trying to make everything function the same is NOT choice nor is it competition
Someone’s opinion of a software model doesn’t override my free will to choose what’s best for me.
Exactly! If people have a single shit about third part app stores the iPhone wouldn’t be as popular as it is. All these EU shills act like it was some big secret that iPhones don’t support side loading and nobody could have possibly known before buying the device. Of course we know it’s a walled garden, that’s the reason we’re buying it! These weirdos can’t accept that this is what people want, and instead applaud the eu for stepping in and forcing Apple to turn ios into Android with a different skin
I read an interesting article (I wish I could find it) where the gist was how iOS took the role of OS from something that provides basic hardware/software functions to software that plays a key and primary role in not only the user experience but in how all the software was presented, managed, functioned etc. This allowed the OS to be more secure, easier to use and control much more data/software. And in a world where software is becoming more complex and digital data more important, Apple’s vision was that this would permit advanced functions and not devolve into the mess most people’s computers are. It permits things like mass adoption of Apple Pay, Os updates, and features like Apple Intelligence while maintaining privacy and a consistent UI. I mean, I can’t imagine just putting any companies AI assistant on my phone and giving it access to all my data. Hell no.
I think Apple was right and iOS changed the landscape of what OS’s can and should do. But many people don’t like this newer type of OS.
Apple is specifically mentioning security concerns and their reasoning here, and I totally believe them. Yet in this current situation the EU apparently doesn’t care about security (at least up until Apple implements it and then there’s a security issue). Not just this, but Apple has also released some pretty great features that other platforms don’t have (while also being way late on others).
While I think some enforcement has probably been warranted, it seems like they just want to now punish Apple for having a product that users think is better than the competition.
Also, happy cake day.
These are the same clowns that tried to pass a mass surveillance bill that exempted them from said surveillance. That’s what you’re dealing with here.
As for all they’ve done to open up gatekeepers and force a single port (USBC), it’s sort of like living with your enemy who just happens to hate the other guy more than you. But he still hates you, just not as much.
I’m so tired of the insistence that Apple open things up to be more like android, when a lot of us choose iOS because *it isn’t android*. If you want android buy android, if you want iOS buy iOS.
The closed ecosystem has benefits, and those benefits are why people buy that platform.
It’s like most people don’t understand that things aren’t for them. If I don’t like a particular movie I’m not going to try and create rules to prevent that movie from being seen, I’m just not going to watch it.
This is known.
I am glad Apple just said "We love money, but we hate being told what to do."
EU is really just trying to fuck iPhone users the way they fuck Android users.
Lol, true. They want all the tax benefits of trillion dollar companies without having to do any of the work. I believe in regulation, but if it’s too heavy handed, no one will bother to compete. Stuff like universal charging standards or alternative app stores is fine, but there has to be a line somewhere.
Europe can't innovate anymore their entire business model now relies on stealing as much money as possible through regulations and fines. America and Asia lead the way in innovation. I wonder how EU leaders can be so delusional.
“according to the bloc’s vice-president and competition regulator Margrethe Vestager”
It’s going to be interesting to see if consumers in the EU put more of the blame on Apple or on EU policy if they’re disappointed in Apple Intelligence being withheld there. Vestager appears to be trying to get out in front of this.
I don't think she has been voted out. She has served as EVP of the EU Commission for 10 years. [She recently applied for Chairman of the European Investment Bank,](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2023-06-20-margrethe-vestager-i-spil-til-nyt-topjob) and had been nominated by the Danish government, though was not successful. She stepped down briefly to do some campaigning though.
I can’t say since that article was from awhile ago. All I know is she‘s voted out, and she’s using the last remaining time of her position to say anything and everything to get $80 billion from Apple.
What drives me nuts is the fact that we can use Adobe (cfr to the recent drama), Chat GPT etc with no issues but this Apple AI, that is meant to be used on device as much as possible, would be a problem for EU laws. That’s dumb.
EU: *fights against tech companies with constant fines and regulations*
*companies decide to withhold certain things from the EU altogether*
EU: *surprised Pikachu face*
I see both sides both good and bad.
EU wants a level playing field thus opening up third party app stores and if AI comes, they’ll push for that to be opened up.
Apple loves its closed system, because it ensures one of their biggest selling points: privacy. By controlling every part of the OS, they can commit to providing privacy to their customers. Once third parties are involved, they can’t guarantee that anymore. And if something bad or scandalous happens, Apple stands to lose its reputation as people would rather the big company fall.
Personally, I’m leaning more towards Apple because they’ve had reliable products and have my trust as a consumer for the past almost 2 decades. That isn’t to say they make all the right choices, nor do others who feel differently are wrong. Just how i see it.
Also, and this is the big reason I don’t like these rules, if I want third party app stores on my device, I can already have that. I just don’t buy an iPhone!
I find it hilarious that even though there are alternatives, people want to use Apple products so bad they are legislating feature requests instead of buying an android.
I understand the idea of walled gardens etc but instead of forcing Apple to allow 3rd party app stores etc, why not focus your efforts on mandating that companies like Apple and Google must ensure that users will always have an easy way to migrate their personal data between ecosystems?
This way, companies won't have to change their USPs and customers can always choose to leave ecosystems whenever? I mean, you could technically just not buy an iPhone but you have to admit that these days, our lives are so heavily intertwined with devices that while we could just not give them another dollar, what about the personal data and history that's been accumulating for so long?
apple: we want to review all the legal requirements to make sure we don’t run afoul with the laws, and that will take longer than expected, so we will launch in the EU market later.
EU: that’s anti-competitive!
Companies like Apple and Microsoft, believe it or not - are simply not set up organizationally to maintain two fundamentally different product sets for different geographic regions - where there are core differences in code and back end systems. This isn’t like having different power jacks or packaging. So either the companies have to change and accept the increase in costs and complexity or the EU has to accept that many tech companies will limit their offerings in the region. It seems silly but scaling tech across regions with limited changes is baked deep into the dna of the big players.
The EU regulators think all these companies will capitulate to their demands and make these changes worldwide. They’ve said they create the regulations for the world. I think they’re about to find out the hard way that’s not the case, and their citizens will suffer for it.
The EC is completely to blame. They change the rules on a whim, to favour European companies, but mainly Spotify.
Why would any non-European company add features to a product if the EC are just going to decide it’s against a rule they cannot define?
The EU has good intentions but are technically illiterate so they don’t understand the privacy concerns that will arise by asking Apple to open up their walled garden in the way they are demanding.
Or maybe they are scum who are bought by the likes of Google, Meta, and Spotify who would like to erode Apple’s privacy advantage over their own spyware products.
It is either one or the other.
Or MAYBE you made stupid laws that are going to HURT innovation and consumer choice long term?
Governments need to make anti-compete laws, I totally get that, but the DMA is a pathetic overreaching joke
Huh? How does that work
So monopolies are actually not a bad thing, we shouldn’t break them up. Instead we need to force random companies to compete because we don’t like it.
This is the EU throwing a shitfit because apple isn’t bending their knee. Which is hilarious since every EU country had an aneurism about the FBI trying to force apple to backdoor phones.
Apple didn’t have a big enough piece of the pie to justify any claim that they are being anti-competitive m. Android is a larger market. Windows is a larger market.
Since there is no DMA in UK, this is more like a localization issue, it just takes more time for Apple to bring this feature to UK, not like Apple may plan to not bring this feature to EU at all due to DMA.
Apple is trying to make the people turn on the EU to change its rules. By staving big apple fans of features, people will start to get angry and apple will win
I’ve dealt with the EC in Brussels for years. They are an overly bureaucratic and not particularly smart organization. This is an example. They somehow think Apple has an obligation to offer a service in the EU. Just stupid
Feeling the EU is pissed that all major tech companies are American. But this tech-hustle culture would never sit well with Europeans, so I’m not sure if regulation can necessarily fix the situation.
> I think that is that is the most sort of stunning open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition where they have a stronghold already. How can Apple "disable" competition if they're explicitly choosing not to even participate in that market (in Europe)?
And how do they have a stronghold in a feature that they haven’t even released to any market?
"aww shucks, you really believe in us"
While I think the EU's comments here is pretty silly, the comments here seem to misinterpret the statement they're making. 1. Apple is deciding not to roll out their AI features in the EU because they do not believe it can comply with the EU's DMA 2. Because Apple is not rolling out their AI features in the EU because of DMA, the view of the EU is that Apple is admitting they know their AI feature will be anti-competitive if it cannot comply with DMA. Many comments here are misinterpreting the EU's commentary as saying that withholding the feature is itself the anti-competitive behavior. What the EU appears to be saying is that they believe Apple deciding not to operate in the market is a tacit admission that they already know the EU will declare their feature uncompetitive. The EU believes that if Apple is only operating in markets where the DMA does not apply, Apple is choosing to operate only in markets that they don't have to enable competition. Put another way, this is like saying if you plead the 5th and choose not to self-incriminate, you're guilty. Which is silly, but here we are.
It would likely be insanely difficult, if not impossible, to open up their AI intigrations to competition. It is not like a single program running, it is many small highly specific models deeply integrated into the OS. The only way to really open that up is to just throw open the gates and allow anything to run. They could, but the system would essentially have no security at that point. Bad actors would run rampent.
So what the EU is saying is that they would have deemed it anti-competitive and Apple was right to stop those features in the EU. These arguments are circular and contradictory. Apple should have the right to avoid the market if they want.
> What the EU appears to be saying is that they believe Apple deciding not to operate in the market is a tacit admission that they already know the EU will declare their feature uncompetitive. If that is in fact their thought process, I definitely don't blame Apple for refusing certain products and services in the EU.
If you read beyond the headline and go into the article, they're pretty explicit that this is their thought process. "I \[EU\] find that very interesting that they \[Apple\] say we will now deploy AI where we’re not obliged to enable competition. I think that is that is the most sort of stunning open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition where they have a stronghold already."
Disabling competition isn't the same as choosing not to facilitate it, insecurely, on their own platform, as a matter of law. Apple is demonstrating that it simply won't enter a market if the regulators there are this fucking stupid. EU regulators know they've managed to shit all over the bed. Their only option is to desperately grasp at excuses and accusations, to try to save face.
Question is how many years do they need to revert on stupid decisions that wont be a benefit to the user, but making us less competitive. Malware and scaminfested operating systems are fine, who open up everything because they simply dont care. 🤦🏼♂️ Also im pretty sure its the big tech lobby in the background wanting to position itself and their worse offerings in a better light in europe.
> misinterpreting the EU's commentary The problem really falls with the EU here with Margrethe Vestager being intentionally disingenuous. She's spun Apple's statement and attributed meaning that doesn't exist within it. Apple isn't releasing the features in the EU until they have that clarity - moreover they're not releasing them anywhere except in the USA at this stage with even the UK (though not fully stated) not expected till 2025. If the EU believes feature release is critical to its success it ought to pivot from hostility to working with companies that operate in spheres it has not developed its own competition for. Vestager is a problem looking for a higher rank within the EU, she's not a solution.
Not everything Apple drops ends up sticking or becoming the dominant “one” in the segment. At this point they just have a bone to pick and it looks immature and petulant
>At this point they just have a bone to pick and it looks immature and petulant You just described both the EU and Apple here, actually.
I don’t deny that. But Apple is the one being picked on here, so I don’t blame them for being stubborn. I would be too.
The EU is threatening to fine Apple more than they make in the EU. Apple isn’t being “stubborn”, they are being prudent. Why in the world would you risk $50B in fines to ship an incremental feature that people have gotten by without for 15 years? The EU desperately needs some kind of pre-clearance process so companies can get assurance it’s OK to ship a new feature before doing so. Otherwise nobody is going to play Calvinball with this much money at stake.
But if they provide a pre-clearance process they have less chances to fine people for a percentage of their *global* sales. So Calvinball it is.
Upvote for Calvinball
I regret that I only have but one upvote to give...
Upvote for upvoting for Calvinball
Yeah that’s where I’m at. EU isn’t going after Windows market share or Spotify’s market share and making them open up to Linux or Tidal (whatever). It’s only Apple.
I don’t see it as stubborn. Given the climate, it makes sense. The EU have been apprised of all of Apple’s business moves for years, they HAVE to be for Apple to operate in the region. This is a situation where Apple had been approved to do business as defined in the region and now are told that the way they’re doing business is illegal. I’m sure if they were aware of a size clause, they would have restricted their growth in the region. And this isn’t even an old thing. According to the regulation, the iPad is nowhere even close to being a gatekeeper. So it’s not affected by DMA one would think? No, the regulators have deemed it a gatekeeper in a statement where they essentially state “No, it’s not a gatekeeper, but, I mean, it IS now.” Given this, any new feature that ANY company brings forward has the potential to be okayed initially then marked illegal. Best for companies to get some clarity around how they’re going to operate a feature, NOT just for a few months, but for years to come. Say what anyone wants to say about China, if they make a rule, the way to adhere to the rule is clear cut. The big difference, China is totally fine cutting out companies in order to get them to comply.
China's rule is clear-cut until one of their higher up party members needs to make some money, then they do whatever they want.
Apple is trying to defend the experience that customers literally paid them money for to create. The EU is trying to fine Apple any way they can so they can get $80 billion from them. The “petulant complaining” is not even remotely the same and you know that. Dont act dense.
The fact that the GPDR website violates the GPDR tells you how convoluted EU regulations are. It's no surprise that Apple doesn't want to do anything unless it's absolutely sure. The EU is desperately trying to spin this.
I'm not a big fan of large corpos, but the positioning here Is pretty odd from the EU to say the least. Why is a company obligated to release certain features in your market if you have actively passed laws that make it harder for them to release products in your market? That's like inviting a director to make a movie in Rome or something and then being like "but you can't film any of the historical sights". Just like - why even go then?
The cynic in me looks at where that money goes when they levy these fines against companies.. and yep it funds the EU. It rubs me the wrong way when a governmental body or department directly benefits from going after companies. It provides motivation that can stray from its actual purpose. Not to mention the personal gain potential for the person(s) that lead and organize these actions. I imagine the people responsible for the fines get all types of upward mobility in their career.
That’s how I feel. People at this point are just hating apple for being successful
Why is one in quotes?
And a ‘stronghold’ as defined by a very broad and difficult to interpret law that’s more at the whim of prosecutors than actual public interest.
The EU's unhinged. They continually sue and fine a company fueled by an extremely strange mindset, under the guise of "consumer protection" then act surprised when said company starts limiting product and services for that region. You're going to have a problem, when an organization is monetarily motivated and benefactors when going after companies.
Seriously. This is the opposite of anticompetitive behavior. This is choosing not to compete with their new product in a market that’s too risky (due to over-regulation) for them to release it in. The EU should expect this to start happening a LOT if they’re going to continue to threaten fines that are bigger than their market’s entire value to the at-risk companies.
The counter-point: Microsoft bundled Teams with Office. EU ruled against them for abusing their market position by bundling Teams. Microsoft then released a version of office without Teams, and EU said the damage was already done, and Microsoft had abused their market position to push people to use Teams. And yet here is Apple saying: “we’ll wait until we get confirmation that this is allowed” and EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence.
Also now that Microsoft pulled Teams from Office they’re selling Office without Teams for $5 less. The EU is now saying $5 is not enough. Slack Enterprise cost $20 a month. They’re making the argument that people wouldn’t buy Slack if Teams is only $5 more. Why does Slack get to dictate the price of Office? This shit is bonkers.
Why does ***the EU*** get to dictate the price, for that matter? Doesn’t matter that Slack has a massive feature payload and probably should cost more. We have G Suite and Google chat is bundled with it… but we banned it company wide. Good software wins out
It's seemingly just a widely different mindset than we have here in America. The Government dictating a price for consumer goods and services seems insane. Especially with the fact they have sole discretion on when and where and to whom they apply these regulations and fines too. Bureaucracy run amok.
This. We're not subjects here; our government is supposed to serve the people.
The EU is insane if they think its reasonable to force a company to release a product in their region that they offer elsewhere. 14 Billion dollars of revenue Apple makes from the EU seems like it might be worth sacrificing considering they are facing 30 billion dollars in fines for the DMA stuff.
> EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence The most insane take ever by the EU. Anti-competitive behavior implicitly requires that an action HELPS the company performing said action. How in the hell can you spin WITHHOLDING a feature helps a company's position in the marketplace? This is clearly EU spinning the fact that they are now seeing the consequences of their overreaching regulation.
Exactly. I think John Gruber summarized it well: [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/06/27/ec-microsoft-teams](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/06/27/ec-microsoft-teams)
> EU says that Apple too is abusing their market position by NOT releasing Apple Intelligence The EU Parliament & Commission are acting like petulant children here, and I think it would be wise for them to quit acting like they are the sole global regulatory body before other countries (such as the USA) start to treat European companies in a similar fashion.
While some of it may be over-regulation, I think it’s more that the EU refuses to be clear about what the regulation IS. They appear to change what it means whenever what they’ve passed doesn’t seem to do what they want it to do. They say the iPad is a gatekeeper and Apple’s expected to treat the iPad as a gatekeeper when there’s nothing in the regulation that defines WHY the iPad is a gatekeeper.
EU should already be used to having to wait longer for announced products and services, if they ever get them at all, as companies come into compliance with regulations.
Not activating a feature means it “doesn’t exist” in that market and therefore also doesn’t need to be opened to allow for competition.
Thats actually exactly what it means. If Apple isn't bringing the feature then they don't need to open it up to the devs since they aren't controlling a market. For example newer iPhones have thread radios in them, as long as Apple doesn't use that for any homekit stuff they wouldn't need to make the API for the hardware available for others to use the hardware either. The same thing applies to AI and the access their new features enable. If Apple doesn't enable the screen mirroring to a mac feature then they don't need to provide an API for devs to do the same. If they don't enable the Apple Intelligence features to read and understand everything thats happening on the device then they don't need to make an API for others to use to do the same
They’re saying it must mean it will be anticompetitive in the US
The thing is it’s not lol. They built an AI and it layers under a third party which they have openly said they are trying to add options to if they agree to security terms. If that’s anti competitive then what is every other voice system?
That’s a misunderstanding. Apple Intelligence has nothing to do with ChatGPT/OpenAI. Apple Intelligence is Apple’s own models run on device, or on Apple’s own hardware in the cloud (“Private Cloud Compute”), combined with what they call a Semantic Index, which is personal information about you and your contacts, gathered on your device. They only use ChatGPT for what they call “world knowledge”, and it is disabled by default.
I’m aware. I don’t think it should even be a discussion what models are running on hardware. It’s such an absurd safety risk that if we are actually talking about that, we might as well talk about the os installed to the phone being anticompetitive and opening that up. It’s a worthwhile discussion about what third parties Apple uses off device. It should be a non starter on device at that level.
> we might as well talk about the os installed to the phone being anticompetitive and opening that up. That's the EU's plan
It feels like that top comment didn’t fully read the article. The full quote makes it clear that they’re making the accusation Apple is engaging in anti competitive behavior outside the EU in the other markets without the same regulations as the EU
Ive no love of Apple(arrived here via main page) but Vestager has shown herself to be embarrassingly stupid on multiple occasions in her dogmatic pursuit of the company.
The idea is that strong competitors in markets drive the market forward. Obviously apple is a behemoth and if they are not in the market then Europe will grow further uncompetitive. This isn’t a lie. The real problem though is that Europeans regulate so much that even apples army of lawyers can’t comb through every regulation efficiently enough for apple to avoid fines. If they don’t chill or simplify regulations more companies from America AND Asia will withhold certain features tbh.
> How can Apple "disable" competition if they're explicitly choosing not to even participate in that market (in Europe)? You won't be able to run ChatGPT or any other AI with the same level of integration on the iPhone that Apple Intelligence would. If the iPhone had Apple Intelligence in Europe, they would likely be required to give the same or similar type of access to the competition in the EU. Because otherwise it would be anti competitive if Apple Intelligence can use stuff that other AI can't. By not having Apple Intelligence, they can't be forced to provide access to other AIs. Thus, disabling competition by simply not participating unless they can be anticompetitive. We can argue about whether what the EU wants makes sense or not, if it's truly uncompetitive or not, etc, etc, but it's absolutely sensible to say that Apple removing a feature so that they aren't forced to open up stuff is disabling competition.
I think it’s totally reasonable to have your own system on device and allow people to use others third party but never allow them system level access. Which is what would be required. I’m not sure I really follow the logic that iOS needs to allow software to replace part of it. Not just apps, this is system level. At that point they might as well say the phones can’t be restricted to one OS and just open this thing up completely
this is why those regulations don't make any sense and they're definitely not good for consumers. those people who make them up, they don't understand the technologies they're dealing with.
Unlocking the bootloader is exactly what the DMA should have been and it should have stopped there. You own the hardware, you can install anything you want on it. You do not own iOS, you cannot mandate that they implement arbitrary featuresets into their software.
This is the most sensible take. Anything else results in either unlimited corporate power, or ignorant bureaucrats arguing whether Apple should be forced to allow alternate file systems. (As an example)
> At that point they might as well say the phones can’t be restricted to one OS and just open this thing up completely I mean, they're not exactly **not** saying this.. yet.
I think Apple would just rather compete on a platform level. They have zero interest in Siri or their AI being able to be called from an Android device. And they have zero interest in letting someone else have access to all your private info so they can give you a voice assistant feature on your iOS device. You’re right, they’re stopping the competition, but just by not playing at all. There’s nothing to compete with. If another platform opens up the voice assistant to let you slide another in then that’s cool. But the EU isn’t really looking at voice assistants in general. Heck there’s no guarantee they’d even be concerned over this new AI stuff. That’s part of the issue. Apple won’t be able to get an answer on if the feature in its current form is fine for the EU or if someone’s gonna come after them for it. They’re just going to wait it out. Wait for whats-her-name to be ejected and see if the next lot is a bit more friendly and amenable to sitting down for discussion. And if they are; we’ll probably see the feature planned in at that juncture.
Apple already came out and said the reason why they do not provide these open APIs is because it poses security/privacy concerns. And the example you brought up is a very good one. Apple's deal with OpenAI does not allow the company to identify users and use any data for training. This is a huge win for privacy. This is only possible because of exclusive deals. If Apple makes an open API for the World Knowledge feature, no chat-bot company would be willing to sign such a deal. They would just build the feature and use the data as they see fit. So there is a clear trade-off between having a closed API (which restricts open access but it is not necessarily anti-competitive) and privacy. Both are core values of the EU. Which one is more important? I do not have the anwser. The only thing that I know is that EU regulators cannot spew agressive words like this when they clearly have no idea what these features are nor their impact on different aspects (not just the DMA) of EU legislation.
Except apple has a very valid reason to be weary about releasing this product to the EU. As was just seen with the microsoft ai issues, people don’t want their data being transmitted off device, and are very concerned about how their data is used to run an AI feature. So being forced to open this so that other AIs can also be used would also risk creating substantial privacy concerns. Also, my personal opinion is that since Apple isn’t charging for Apple AI, there shouldn’t be any sort of anti competitive argument to be made. They are releasing a feature on their platform. Especially when you compare it to something like Microsoft and what they’re doing with copilot on windows.
This is what happens when you let some non-STEM history/PolSci major bureaucrats lead you. All they have ever known is make demands and complain when they aren't met.
EU: You cant do business here unless you follow all of our rules Apple: Ok, we will sit this one out EU: YOU HAVE TO DO BUSINESS HERE!!!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Apple made it available the EU would be getting ready to fine them for privacy violations.
Apple: Here is a cool new feature EU: Your new feature has a .00001% chance of leaking private information of the residents of Seydisfjordur, Iceland. $1B FINE! Apple: We released a patch that locks down our new feature and protects the people of Seydisfjordur. EU: Your closed garden doesnt allow full interoperability with all third party apps known and not yet developed. ANTICOMPETITIVE! $10B fine. Apple: We have opened up access to third party apps to use our new feature. EU: This third party app that has been downloaded 4 times in 6 years just exposed all the personal data of the people of Seydisfjordur. WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT Seydisfjordur??? $100B fine! Apple: This is to hard, we are out. EU: Apple hates competition! $200B FINE!!!
Remember the fallen heroes of Seydisfjordur. Your deaths shall not be in vain.
Funny coming from the EU who wants to be able to openly spy on their citizens
I’m pretty sure that’s the crux of the EUs fight against Apple. They want a back door entrance to the walled garden and apple’s ecosystem doesn’t make that easily possible
That’s exactly what all this is about
They didn't even say they're not going to bring it to the EU. They just said they need more time to make sure that any EU-specific changes they need to make don't compromise their security & privacy. Any regulation requires time & money on the regulated company to comply. This is exactly what Apple & other DMA gatekeepers *should* be doing. Is it also a slightly raised middle-finger to the EU? maybe.
LOL "gatekeepers" AKA "non-EU companies that make good products"
They want to have their cake and eat it too
It’s going to be hilarious when the EU is stuck with Siri because they want to choke every company on a leash. They will eventually face corporate pushback and be left out on many major technologies going ahead.
I like the EU in many respects, but I think Verstager is the wrong person for the job. Her focus is on economic benefits for EU citizens, but all her measures have zero actual real word benefits. She also disregards privacy and security, while it should be a top priority. EU should focus on making EU businesses more competitive. Not try to artifically make the playground more in favor off EU companies. Where are the big EU tech companies? Why are the highly educated IT people moving to the states? It is so easy to make rules to forbid and force. Come up with shit that helps build and create.
She’s also said that she will know she’s successful if, in the end, Apple’s making lower profits in the region. As a result, there’s no negotiation as there’s no chance for a middle ground.
Did she really said that? lol that's kind of ground for a lawsuit, she just admitted to private vendetta
From a CNBC interview when asked if they’d go as far as breakup Apple (which is hilarious that she thinks the region has that much power) **VESTAGER:** *Well, it remains to be seen. But if you have to carry a second app store,* ***that will make a dent in your own app store.*** *If you cannot promote your own services, but need to give room for competitors, rightfully, legitimately so,* ***of course that will potentially, sort of, take away some of your own profits.*** So, the regulations were about, in the end, putting a dent in their profits. And, it’s such a child-like, naïve view. And, that naivety is all throughout their vaguely written regulation. “If we say this they’re forced to do…” no, there are other regulations that allow precisely what Apple has offered as solutions. When anyone says “they follow the letter, but not the spirit”, what they’re saying is that “Apple won’t financially be too much worse off as a result!” because THAT was the spirit of the regulation. That’s why the regulation is so poorly written, because they were attempting to hide that THAT was the spirit of the legislation. f they had been clearer, the folks required to sign off on it wouldn’t have. Going back to the iPad thing, it’s not a gatekeeper. They wrote the legislation like it wasn’t a gatekeeper. However, that meant Apple’s profits with the iPad wouldn’t be impacted. So, AFTER the fact and with nothing in the DMA calling the iPad a gatekeeper, it’s a gatekeeper now. Simply because there was no way of codifying the iPad as a gatekeeper such that it wouldn’t set off the alarm bells of some of the folks that had to sign off on this. *“A gatekeeper can expect that any other products a gatekeeper makes will be defined as a gatekeeper even if the gatekeeper’s other product isn’t a gatekeeper as defined by our definition of gatekeeper.”* Is likely how they wanted it to read. :) The process has been set with the fine being stated, now there will be 5-10 years where those following behind V\*ger will look closely at what they’ve done and companies will challenge how the regulations were brought about. My thinking is that if they were working with these companies instead of against them, they’d have a regulatory environment that would be in place indefinitely. As it is, the slipshod regulations they have are going to be impacted because whoever is after her won’t want to put their name on something so poorly built.
EU agreed with you. She was voted out of office.
She’s not elected in any way in the first place.
that's why any posts regarding EU from last month and also for next month should be automatically deleted. because of elections, those comments made by current EU people are irrelevant, as most of them will be out of office/ will switch to different positions
This is why US antitrust regulation typically considers harms done to consumers. Being a monopoly is fine -- *abusing* your monopoly to make things worse for consumers in the market is the thing that's illegal.
It makes me wonder what the EU thinks of Nvda. Other companies will provide competition down the road but currently they are taking advantage of charging large corporations whatever they want even if those corporations say now we have it; how will it ever be turned into profitable investment.
NVDA is fine, but what about ASML, which is probably as close to a true monopoly as it gets.
“Apple not launching features is anticompetitive”-EU “Apple services and features is anticompetitive and we’re fining them”- also the EU
To be fair, she’s not saying that Apple withholding these features in the EU is anti-competitive in itself, she’s saying that by doing so, Apple is admiting that these features are inherently anti-competitive and that’s why they’re withholding them. She’s wrong, obviously, but that’s what she’s saying.
EU finding out actions have consequences
This makes me so happy it’s not funny. Smug, entitled dependents. The EU is like reddit in a lot of ways.
God forbid corporations are not allowed to abuse their power to the detriment of consumers
Yeah, god fucking forbid Apple doesn’t want their Private Cloud Compute Platform opened up to Facebook for them to fuck over and abuse user data. The absolute horror! Apple is providing competition to the rest of the market if the EU lets it. unfortunately in the EU’s eyes anything other than everything functioning the exact same like android is not competition to them. Apple provides a benefit and a billion customers agree. Let Apple be Apple, and let not a politician change them for the sake of an extra dollar
It’s not even Android, but some idiots oversimplified explanation of what a tech illiterate person thinks Android is. Google also got fined. Because honestly, Android without Google services is kinda shit.
Power? Apple's market share is around 25% in Europe.
I didn't see anything in /u/jejsjhabdjf's comment that looks like he thinks corporations *should* be able to abuse their power. Sounds like you're commenting out of bad faith. The notion that disagreeing or disliking the EU means you're automatically pro-corporate abuse, and there's zero possible alternatives, is nonsense.
Corporations do abuse their power to the detriment of consumers, Apple does it too. But in this case, Apple's vertical integration is to the benefit of consumers (privacy, security, performance) and detriment of other corporations. These EU regulations seem divorced from what the average iPhone user actually cares about or wants, because these regulations are ultimately not intended for their benefit. The actual average ~~person~~ iPhone user just wants their ~~device~~ iPhone to work well and be secure and reliable without hassle. Much of these regulations are intended for the benefit of other corporations (such as Spotify, a European company).
That’s the key: this whole DMA is to spur EUROPEAN growth. On the backs of non-European countries.
Too bad it won't work. EU is way behind in most tech and fining US companies won't fix that. So they will keep finding new ways to fine US companies to feel better about it.
Europe tried this ”tech” thing. All of the companies here burned to the ground because all their products were total anti-user dogshit, and the business practices were equally shit. SAP is the only company left, and their products are utterly shit too. And now EU thinks they can get a resurgence in European tech by shitting on everything worth using.
It really highlights the duality of the EU. The EU is like that friend that wants to be included in everything, but complains when people don’t want to do what they want to do. When they stop getting invited, they complain about being left out. It’s overly simplistic, but the EU should have anticipated this outcome and the negative impact it would have on their market after repeatedly dunking on Apple.
They figured they were big and important enough to have Apple over a barrel. They never thought or believed that Apple would actually exclude them.
This is the EU slapping around a very big American company for 1) not bending their knee, and 2) because it’s the only way they can exert any real political economic pressure over the US. Ie, they’re throwing a tantrum.
It’s almost like following regulations when running one of the biggest multi international companies in the world, is complicated??
I think the world is getting sick & tired of the EU's bullshit. The EU can have their malware Alt Store, while most of the world gets Apple Intelligence. Bunch of brats. **Edit**: Euros are downvoting me lol
It feels like a lot of these EU court cases are just a money grab. It’s pretty disappointing.
It’s basically tax revenue, without the word “tax”. It’s like when your State & Local government wants to raise tax revenue without raising taxes, they start issuing a lot of tickets. That ticket money becomes a regular revenue source.
Have my upvote. I feel like Apple should respond to every EU remark thrown its way with, “Where are your tech companies?” The EU clearly does not care not foster innovation, but cripples it. Otherwise… that continent that has some of the highest standards of living and some of the best universities in the world would have had some success building a European Facebook, Reddit, Google, Twitter or Apple — but no, they’ll just fine US tech and vote in far-right parties only to beg the US for help when they find themselves in another World War.
The only major tech company they have is Spotify ….and even they chose to list on a US stock exchange …not a European stock exchange lol Any other European tech company is either out of business or too small to be relevant.
Exactly. Can’t produce anything good in the sector and must dictate how other companies operate.
EU is getting sick of EU’s bullshit too. Actual EU citizens just voted her the fuck out of office.
They didn’t
Or, Or, and I am just saying… Apple is getting hammered by the EU and in response is moving far more carefully with new features there. As much as I think the EU is doing good things, there is absolutely a layer of protectionism involved here. How about putting the screws to Spotify for some of their own shady practices?
>Apple is getting hammered by the EU and in response is moving far more carefully with new features there. Exactly. Apple is delaying the feature to make sure it fully complies with EU laws, but now the EU is mad at that too.
I think apple believes their fans will get upset with EU when they start missing out on features but are still paying full price. The people will turn on the EU and apple will win. Apple will claim their hands are tied by the EU and there is nothing they can do
eu's response when they can't compete: investigate litigate regulate same old same old
This statement from the vice president of the regulatory body responsible for the DMA is a perfect example of how badly the EU misunderstands the world we live in today and the technology that we consume. The DMA is designed to punish companies that capitalise on their innovations by forcing them to allow every competitor a chance of using it irrespective of their intentions. So when Apple preemptively hold back features that they know they can’t make compliant with the law, suddenly they’re being anti-competitive?
The DMA is designed to stifle innovation. It may not have been intended to(starting to look doubtful) but that’s what it’s going to do.
A large part of it is how we treat the tech industry. In any other industry you would be laughed out of the room. if you tried to do half the stuff governmens do to the tech industry.
The DMA was written to appease the companies that line the pockets of the eu leaders.
someone is making a 'stunning declaration' but it isn't apple.
What they're making are excuses, for completely fucking this one up. Apple is just never going to compromise users' privacy and security because some masturbatory group of EU bureaucrats are trying to make their bones on something they don't even understand.
Apple: \*breathes\* Vestager: THIS IS ANTI COMPETITIVE
Apple: \*holds breath\* Vestager: ANTI COMPETITIVE
Apple: makes a good product people like EU: “and I took that personally”
Put it in they will call it a privacy violation. Didn't put it in, they call it a 'declaration’ of anticompetitive behavior. 😂
Everyone is closeting their own markets. China has always done it, EU does it through bureaucracy, US enacts trade barriers and cites “national security” (Chinese EVs, TikTok, Huawei and now even floating idea to do it with DJI). In the end it’s all the same under different disguises.
damned if they do, damned if they don’t
Yep, makes it clear that someone is lobbying these EU autocrats into attacking Apple on everything they do. Even in this case stuff they don’t do. While the same EU is turning a blind eye to companies that actually and regularly invade and threat user privacy and consumption and engage in excessive monopolistic behaviour such as Microsoft, Google, Samsung and Sony.
THANK YOU. Why the fuck isn’t the EU doing anything about Google’s ACTUAL monopoly of the entire internet across web browsers, search engines, ads, videos, smartphone OS, etc? And turning a blind eye as well as others pointed out here too, to big mergers like Microsoft’s constant purchases of large gaming studios, and Google’s purchases of startups that they always kill off stifling competition. What about Facebook’s monopoly of social media and chatting across Facebook, instagram, WhatsApp, etc. and abusing privacy and their monopoly to serve their ad platform. ENOUGH OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT ALREADY.
Funny thing is EU actively tries to increase Google's monopoly on the internet. WebKit(Safari) is the last stronghold when it comes to browser engines. However due to the new EU regulations other browsers could use Blink(Chrome) on iOS.
WebKit is a """stronghold""" purely because of Apple's anti-competitive policies and they intentionally keep it being shit to push iOS users away from web browsers back to the App Store. You can shit on Google for their browser monopoly and abusive attitude towards the internet all you want, but Apple is in no way "the good guy" in that arena. They're both fucking their users in their own little special ways and the fact that they coincidentally happen to look like opposite strategies at a very superficial level changes nothing about how similar their interests are.
Apple protecting the data, privacy and security of its OS and AI by not allowing all third parties access if core system security APIs or access to private user data, is anti-competitive in the EU's eyes. There you go. The EU is not doing this charade for the people. It never was about the people, the vast majority of iPhone users do not want 3rd party app stores and data being silo'd in a dozen marketplaces and EULAs. The EU is doing this to benefit the predatory corporations who want access to iPhone user data. Everyone should be glad Apple is fighting the EU. The biggest loser in this will be the EU, which will provide lesser security and privacy for its population and will further sink into tech irrelevancy as its economy continues to stagnate. Ironically all from the the same instituition that has greenlit every anti-competitive merger known to man. The US has blocked and killed more mergers in 2 years than the EU has in 20 years.
[Agreed, let’s not forget they wanted to scan even encrypted messages](https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/19/24181214/eu-chat-control-law-propose-scanning-encrypted-messages-csam)
They still want and as a European I hate it
So I have to ask… there’s no way the majority of EU citizens want this, right? So who/why the fuck is electing the various relevant politicians/parties…? Like? I get there’s only so much you can do, but even in the US people sometimes successfully protest and or vote out shitty politicians. I mean there too but like… I guess we did elect trump but he also got kicked out the next immediate chance, which is kinda my point. [Enough] People wanted him, then didn’t, so he’s out. Is the whole “I don’t lock my door because I have nothing to hide” mentality really so pervasive? Yeah I don’t want the police or government recording all the porn I watch. I don’t care how innocuous that is, that’s fucking weird and rife for abuse. (Replace porn with anything you don’t want people to see lol)
For one, most people don’t know what encryption means. Most of my friends think Chat Control (the law that would make scanning messages legal) will only affect people who use the dark web. The argument “well, I don’t have anything to hide” is also very common. For two, political parties blatantly lie about their position on the issue. In my country (Sweden), the Greens and the Left Party campaigned heavily on Chat Control being a threat to democracy and a human rights violation, and they both won a bunch of voters on this (including me). Yet, barely a week after the election, they allowed a resolution to support Chat Control to pass, later claiming they “forgot to oppose it”.
The vast majority of people here says "Well I'm not a terrorist/murderer/criminal so I guess they can scan my messages, I don't caree." Unfortunately. >I guess we did elect trump but he also got kicked out the next immediate chance, which is kinda my point. \[Enough\] People wanted him, then didn’t, so he’s out Now if only it was that easy with your supreme court. Trump has done lasting damage, whether we admit it or not. At the very least to the US international relations and the global perception of the US.
>So who/why the fuck is electing the various relevant politicians/parties…? Like? I get there’s only so much you can do, but even in the US people sometimes successfully protest and or vote out shitty politicians. I mean there too but like… The way the European Parliament works is a joke. It has a massive democratic deficit that the eu can't fix without treaty change. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_legitimacy_of_the_European_Union#:~:text='Democratic%20deficit'%2C%20in%20relation,accountability%20of%20European%20Union%20institutions. Basically it's stuck not being a state but also not truly being an international thing. It's a weird middle ground.
They talk about “choice” - but what about my choice? I want Apple to make platform decisions for me. That’s why I chose them over the alternatives. What’s so illegal about me wanting a closed system and voting with my wallet?
THANK YOU, I’ve been trying to fucking say this so many times. It’s MY choice to let a company make certain decisions for me. If I didn’t want that, I’d buy from a different companies that gives me more control. Trying to make everything function the same is NOT choice nor is it competition Someone’s opinion of a software model doesn’t override my free will to choose what’s best for me.
This is what it comes down to Same with iPhone mirroring. It uses device privileges that we would rightly crucify Apple for giving to other companies.
People really don’t understand this is LITERALLY for THEIR protection
Exactly! If people have a single shit about third part app stores the iPhone wouldn’t be as popular as it is. All these EU shills act like it was some big secret that iPhones don’t support side loading and nobody could have possibly known before buying the device. Of course we know it’s a walled garden, that’s the reason we’re buying it! These weirdos can’t accept that this is what people want, and instead applaud the eu for stepping in and forcing Apple to turn ios into Android with a different skin
I read an interesting article (I wish I could find it) where the gist was how iOS took the role of OS from something that provides basic hardware/software functions to software that plays a key and primary role in not only the user experience but in how all the software was presented, managed, functioned etc. This allowed the OS to be more secure, easier to use and control much more data/software. And in a world where software is becoming more complex and digital data more important, Apple’s vision was that this would permit advanced functions and not devolve into the mess most people’s computers are. It permits things like mass adoption of Apple Pay, Os updates, and features like Apple Intelligence while maintaining privacy and a consistent UI. I mean, I can’t imagine just putting any companies AI assistant on my phone and giving it access to all my data. Hell no. I think Apple was right and iOS changed the landscape of what OS’s can and should do. But many people don’t like this newer type of OS.
Apple is specifically mentioning security concerns and their reasoning here, and I totally believe them. Yet in this current situation the EU apparently doesn’t care about security (at least up until Apple implements it and then there’s a security issue). Not just this, but Apple has also released some pretty great features that other platforms don’t have (while also being way late on others). While I think some enforcement has probably been warranted, it seems like they just want to now punish Apple for having a product that users think is better than the competition. Also, happy cake day.
These are the same clowns that tried to pass a mass surveillance bill that exempted them from said surveillance. That’s what you’re dealing with here. As for all they’ve done to open up gatekeepers and force a single port (USBC), it’s sort of like living with your enemy who just happens to hate the other guy more than you. But he still hates you, just not as much.
I’m so tired of the insistence that Apple open things up to be more like android, when a lot of us choose iOS because *it isn’t android*. If you want android buy android, if you want iOS buy iOS. The closed ecosystem has benefits, and those benefits are why people buy that platform. It’s like most people don’t understand that things aren’t for them. If I don’t like a particular movie I’m not going to try and create rules to prevent that movie from being seen, I’m just not going to watch it.
This is known. I am glad Apple just said "We love money, but we hate being told what to do." EU is really just trying to fuck iPhone users the way they fuck Android users.
As a Danish person I apologize for Vestager. We don’t like her either
The EU is simply not worth the headache anymore.
What I’m hearing from her is “How will we sue apple for billions for anti competitive behaviors if they don’t compete”
Lol, true. They want all the tax benefits of trillion dollar companies without having to do any of the work. I believe in regulation, but if it’s too heavy handed, no one will bother to compete. Stuff like universal charging standards or alternative app stores is fine, but there has to be a line somewhere.
Europe can't innovate anymore their entire business model now relies on stealing as much money as possible through regulations and fines. America and Asia lead the way in innovation. I wonder how EU leaders can be so delusional.
They are building it into the OS. INTO THE OS. the EU is dumb on this one. If people don't like apple... don't buy apple. buy orange.
The EU can dish it but can’t take it
“according to the bloc’s vice-president and competition regulator Margrethe Vestager” It’s going to be interesting to see if consumers in the EU put more of the blame on Apple or on EU policy if they’re disappointed in Apple Intelligence being withheld there. Vestager appears to be trying to get out in front of this.
Considering Vestager was voted the fuck out of office, they’re going to blame her.
I don't think she has been voted out. She has served as EVP of the EU Commission for 10 years. [She recently applied for Chairman of the European Investment Bank,](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2023-06-20-margrethe-vestager-i-spil-til-nyt-topjob) and had been nominated by the Danish government, though was not successful. She stepped down briefly to do some campaigning though.
Yeah, why is she still involved in this? I thought she stepped down. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2023/09/06/eu_antitrust_chief_margrethe_vestager/
I can’t say since that article was from awhile ago. All I know is she‘s voted out, and she’s using the last remaining time of her position to say anything and everything to get $80 billion from Apple.
Maybe she didn’t get the job the article mentions and now she is back in charge of this nonsense.
The women in thumbnail looked like Jeremy Renner for a sec
What drives me nuts is the fact that we can use Adobe (cfr to the recent drama), Chat GPT etc with no issues but this Apple AI, that is meant to be used on device as much as possible, would be a problem for EU laws. That’s dumb.
EU: *fights against tech companies with constant fines and regulations* *companies decide to withhold certain things from the EU altogether* EU: *surprised Pikachu face*
I see both sides both good and bad. EU wants a level playing field thus opening up third party app stores and if AI comes, they’ll push for that to be opened up. Apple loves its closed system, because it ensures one of their biggest selling points: privacy. By controlling every part of the OS, they can commit to providing privacy to their customers. Once third parties are involved, they can’t guarantee that anymore. And if something bad or scandalous happens, Apple stands to lose its reputation as people would rather the big company fall. Personally, I’m leaning more towards Apple because they’ve had reliable products and have my trust as a consumer for the past almost 2 decades. That isn’t to say they make all the right choices, nor do others who feel differently are wrong. Just how i see it.
Also, and this is the big reason I don’t like these rules, if I want third party app stores on my device, I can already have that. I just don’t buy an iPhone! I find it hilarious that even though there are alternatives, people want to use Apple products so bad they are legislating feature requests instead of buying an android.
I understand the idea of walled gardens etc but instead of forcing Apple to allow 3rd party app stores etc, why not focus your efforts on mandating that companies like Apple and Google must ensure that users will always have an easy way to migrate their personal data between ecosystems? This way, companies won't have to change their USPs and customers can always choose to leave ecosystems whenever? I mean, you could technically just not buy an iPhone but you have to admit that these days, our lives are so heavily intertwined with devices that while we could just not give them another dollar, what about the personal data and history that's been accumulating for so long?
But what about the simple appeal of “if you don’t like walled gardens, buy an Android”?
apple: we want to review all the legal requirements to make sure we don’t run afoul with the laws, and that will take longer than expected, so we will launch in the EU market later. EU: that’s anti-competitive!
Companies like Apple and Microsoft, believe it or not - are simply not set up organizationally to maintain two fundamentally different product sets for different geographic regions - where there are core differences in code and back end systems. This isn’t like having different power jacks or packaging. So either the companies have to change and accept the increase in costs and complexity or the EU has to accept that many tech companies will limit their offerings in the region. It seems silly but scaling tech across regions with limited changes is baked deep into the dna of the big players.
The EU regulators think all these companies will capitulate to their demands and make these changes worldwide. They’ve said they create the regulations for the world. I think they’re about to find out the hard way that’s not the case, and their citizens will suffer for it.
China says ni hao.
The EC is completely to blame. They change the rules on a whim, to favour European companies, but mainly Spotify. Why would any non-European company add features to a product if the EC are just going to decide it’s against a rule they cannot define?
First European Comission invents some rules against Apple. Apple obeys these rules. Such an uncompetitive behaviour!!! How dare they?
Since the UK is technically not in the EU anymore, does it mean it will roll out in the UK?
Apple just needs to leave the EU market and move on.
I have a hard time believing that Apple is a monopoly when nobody is required to buy their products and most smart phones are not Apple designs.
The EU has good intentions but are technically illiterate so they don’t understand the privacy concerns that will arise by asking Apple to open up their walled garden in the way they are demanding. Or maybe they are scum who are bought by the likes of Google, Meta, and Spotify who would like to erode Apple’s privacy advantage over their own spyware products. It is either one or the other.
Or MAYBE you made stupid laws that are going to HURT innovation and consumer choice long term? Governments need to make anti-compete laws, I totally get that, but the DMA is a pathetic overreaching joke
They have not disabled any competition, however they just disabled themselves from being within that market
Isn’t the EU technically a monopoly stomping on companies to fit what they want, and only favouring European companies? Who regulates the EU, oh wait.
EU continues to dig their own grave
And by a ‘stunning declaration’ of anticompetitive behavior, you mean a stunning example of telling overreaching regulators to bugger off.
EU trying to solve problems caused by over regulation with more regulation
“Apple not having a luxury Men’s deodorant line in Europe is a stunning declaration of anticompetitive behavior”
Huh? How does that work So monopolies are actually not a bad thing, we shouldn’t break them up. Instead we need to force random companies to compete because we don’t like it. This is the EU throwing a shitfit because apple isn’t bending their knee. Which is hilarious since every EU country had an aneurism about the FBI trying to force apple to backdoor phones.
How is *withholding* a feature 'anti-competitive'?
She’s. Lot more used to her victims lying down and taking it. The rulers don’t like it when people fight back.
lol. If they rolled it out there the EU would find a way to sue them over that. Protectionist markets eventually suffer. Cry me a river.
Apple didn’t have a big enough piece of the pie to justify any claim that they are being anti-competitive m. Android is a larger market. Windows is a larger market.
fuck the EU
EU bureaucrats are so out of their depth and Margrethe Vestager is one of the worst. This is why UK left the EU and others will follow.
Will Apple Intelligence still be included in UK? since UK isn't part of EU.
I guess we shall have to wait and see. Is UK a big enough market for Apple to cater separately. I mean they already have to send a different plug ……
Since there is no DMA in UK, this is more like a localization issue, it just takes more time for Apple to bring this feature to UK, not like Apple may plan to not bring this feature to EU at all due to DMA.
I love UK plugs…triangle is the best structure to have for a stable connection
Soon eu says that you have to release ai in eu 😂
Have they ever said this about all the other US exclusive features?
Apple is trying to make the people turn on the EU to change its rules. By staving big apple fans of features, people will start to get angry and apple will win
I’ve dealt with the EC in Brussels for years. They are an overly bureaucratic and not particularly smart organization. This is an example. They somehow think Apple has an obligation to offer a service in the EU. Just stupid
Feeling the EU is pissed that all major tech companies are American. But this tech-hustle culture would never sit well with Europeans, so I’m not sure if regulation can necessarily fix the situation.
I am supportive of some regulation on anticompetitive behavior but at this point the EU feels like they want to be in full control of Apple.
Sucks to be in the EU.